The Danger of Mixing Religions

[renee819]

The Danger of Mixing Religions

I get a magazine from a UPC College, this month's Editorial is a good one. Here is some of what it said, he is talking about being Fearless in our testimony. (Excerpts from article’s in red) The name of the article is, “No Fear Zone”

Across much of Africa, Asia and Latin America, Pentecostalism has become the de facto Southern way of being Christian. (John L. Allen Jr. from the National Catholic Reporter, Jan 28, 2008) In fact the very title of his article is shocking, “If Demography is Destiny, Pentecostals are the ecumenical future.”

Bro Moody—The key word, is being. Being in this moment. Being ready to speak, being submitted to the message, being ready to give, perhaps even to die.

The Wall Street Journal's weekend edition of July 20-21, 2013 pointed out that the recent trip of Pope Francis to Brazil, originally planned by his predecessor, more than anything else was an effort to rally the troops in a worldwide awakening combating the growing influence of Pentecostalism. The Catholic membership has dropped from 96% of the population of Brazil to 67%. Their losses is overwhelming to Pentacostals.

The Pontiff in one service alone, preached to three million people, mostly youths, along the the great beach in Rio. He challenged them to devote their lives to advancing the message of Christ thru the Catholic Church. He called for a bold confrontation , calling out to the priests and the youth, “to take it to the streets.”
----but the agenda is always to bring contrary religious views under suppression.

Already in Brazil, for example. Catholics are holding their own Pentecostal meetings, with rock bands and traditional Pentecostal elements.

I'm not sure what he means by that.

….Catholics that have received the Holy Ghost---mixing worldly music and other Pentecostal elements.
Or
….Catholics mocking Pentecost. I see no sense in that, in on-going services.

The guntlet has been dropped, not only in religious circles, but in culture as well. Anti-Christian forces are demonstrating new boldness. They are pro-homosexual, hate any sign of holiness and absolutism, and they believe they have the majority numbers on their side. For those that love the Lord, may I say, this is not a good time to be afraid.

The Apostles clearly laid their lives on the line. They lived in the “no fear zone” Imagine what it would be like to live in the no fear zone. Facing down every fear. Overcoming every fear. The day is here. The time is now. There is no other option for believers except to give all.

My cry is, Come out of Babylon, quit mixing different Religions, the world, business into the Apostolic message.
Back to the pure teachings of the Apostles.
When God tore down Babel, it was because of the giants and also it had become the focal point of a worldwide Religion of Paganism.

Years later, here is another example of what God thinks of mixing Religions.

2 Kings 17:18 Therefore the LORD was very angry with Israel, and removed them out of his sight: there was none left but the tribe of Judah only.

Why was God angry, because He had sent Prophets to them to warn them to follow the Laws that He gave to Moses. But they would not and instead followed the heathen around them.

2 Kings 17:23 Until the LORD removed Israel out of his sight, as he had said by all his servants the prophets. So was Israel carried away out of their own land to Assyria unto this day.
:24 And the king of Assyria brought men from Babylon, and from Cuthah, and from Ava, and from Hamath, and from Sepharvaim, and placed them in the cities of Samaria instead of the children of Israel: and they possessed Samaria, and dwelt in the cities thereof.
:25 And so it was at the beginning of their dwelling there, that they feared not the LORD: therefore the LORD sent lions among them, which slew some of them.
:26 Wherefore they spake to the king of Assyria, saying, The nations which thou hast removed, and placed in the cities of Samaria, know not the manner of the God of the land: therefore he hath sent lions among them, and, behold, they slay them, because they know not the manner of the God of the land.
:27 Then the king of Assyria commanded, saying, Carry thither one of the priests whom ye brought from thence; and let them go and dwell there, and let him teach them the manner of the God of the land.
:28 Then one of the priests whom they had carried away from Samaria came and dwelt in Bethel, and taught them how they should fear the LORD.
:29 Howbeit every nation made gods of their own, and put them in the houses of the high places which the Samaritans had made, every nation in their cities wherein they dwelt.
:32 So they feared the LORD, and made unto themselves of the lowest of them priests of the high places, which sacrificed for them in the houses of the high places.
:33 They feared the LORD, and served their own gods, after the manner of the nations whom they carried away from thence.

They feared the Lord enough to know that, He had sent lions among them, but the true fear of God is to depart from evil, and that, they refused to do. And so, God gave them up.

Today, because most people don't fall down and worship idols, they don't realize the idols that they have made in their heart.

If Israel had returned to the pure teaching of Moses, without all of the man-made laws that the Priests added, God would have delivered them.

Today if God's people would return to the pure teaching of the Apostles, we would see another Pentecost.

[thaddaeus417]

Sister,

Bro Mooney was stating that the catholic church is imitating us. He is not talking about mixing, he is stating we are under attack and to fight the good fight, even unto death.

[renee819]

Sister,

Bro Mooney was stating that the catholic church is imitating us. He is not talking about mixing, he is stating we are under attack and to fight the good fight, even unto death.

Yes Thad, I know that, and it is a very good article. I probably should have went a little farther in my article.

We are coming to a time when the One World Religion will take over.
I see many discouraged Pentecostal Christians. Even on this Forum you can see some have went into other Denominations. Some don't go anywhere. And many of those that do go to church, have made going to church a ritual, instead of knowing and understanding that each individual is the temple of God. And we are the temple of God 24/7, not just in church. Therefor there is a lot of mixing in of the “spirit of this world,” in and out of the church.

I believe we are in this condition because of the man-made laws, rules and standards of the church. And many don't not realize that we have taken on the trappings of the other denominations, which started with Constantine. He mixed the priesthood of the Old Testament, Christianity and Paganism for political reasons, into a Universal Church . And when some in Pentecost wanted to organize, they were saying in essence, “Give us a King---that we can be like those around us.”

And now we face a political move to push, force, shove all Religions together, in a Universal Religion. And in the weakened condition of the Church, many will fall for the “STRONG DELUSION.
They are not strong enough to face Persecution.

I believe that the Catholic Church will be at the head of the One World Religion, and what better way to snare the True Church than to imitate them. The Devil will use any means he can to destroy the Church. Mixing with the world, mixing with Religions, discouragement.

We live in a time of, "And they feared the Lord, but served their own gods."

[KWSS1976]

Why would Pentecostals, be upset at "Catholics are holding their own Pentecostal meetings" as stated above...To me that would be great seeing that. Dont see what Bro Moody is so upset about after all Petecostals have been imitating or trying to imitate Penetecost in the bible for years, so what makes the Catholics imitating Petecostals any diffrent..

[Aquila]

It is written...

Acts 2:17
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh:

God will pour out His Spirit on any human being that is seeking Him with sincere faith... regardless of their theology. Think about it... When you received the Spirit did you receive it by FAITH in Him or by being theologically correct with regards to Apostolic doctrine???

We're seeing a miraculous promise of God being fulfilled. Every denomination on the planet is having to accommodate "Spirit filled" believers in their ranks. This is part of the end time revival prophesied in the Bible.

[n david]

Here is the text of Pope Francis' speech in Rio at the World Youth Day 2013, which the article above is referencing.

Dear Young Friends,

“Go and make disciples of all nations”. With these words,Jesus is speaking to each one of us, saying: “It was wonderful to take part in World Youth Day, to live the faith together with young people from the four corners of the earth, but now you must go, now you must pass on this experience to others.” Jesus is calling you to be a disciple with a mission! Today, in the light of the word of God that we have heard, what is the Lord saying to us? Three simple ideas: Go, do not be afraid, and serve.

1. Go. During these days here in Rio, you have been able to enjoy the wonderful experience of meeting Jesus, meeting him together with others, and you have sensed the joy of faith. But the experience of this encounter must not remain locked up in your life or in the small group of your parish, your movement, or your community. That would be like withholding oxygen from a flame that was burning strongly. Faith is a flame that grows stronger the more it is shared and passed on, so that everyone may know, love and confess Jesus Christ, the Lord of life and history (cf. Rom10:9).

Careful, though! Jesus did not say: “if you would like to, if you have the time”, but: “Go and make disciples of all nations.” Sharing the experience of faith, bearing witness to the faith, proclaiming the Gospel: this is a command that the Lord entrusts to the whole Church, and that includes you; but it is a command that is born not from a desire for domination or power but from the force of love, from the fact that Jesus first came into our midst and gave us, not a part of himself, but the whole of himself, he gave his life in order to save us and to show us the love and mercy of God. Jesus does not treat us as slaves, but as free men, as friends, as brothers and sisters; and he not only sends us, he accompanies us, he is always beside us in our mission of love.

Where does Jesus send us? There are no borders, no limits: he sends us to everyone. The Gospel is for everyone, not just for some. It is not only for those who seem closer to us, more receptive, more welcoming. It is for everyone. Do not be afraid to go and to bring Christ into every area of life, to the fringes of society, even to those who seem farthest away, most indifferent. The Lord seeks all, he wants everyone to feel the warmth of his mercy and his love.

In particular, I would like Christ’s command: “Go” to resonate in you young people from the Church in Latin America, engaged in the continental mission promoted by the Bishops. Brazil, Latin America, the whole world needs Christ! Saint Paul says: “Woe to me if I do not preach the Gospel!” (1 Cor 9:16). This continent has received the proclamation of the Gospel which has marked its history and borne much fruit. Now this proclamation is entrusted also to you, that it may resound with fresh power. The Church needs you, your enthusiasm, your creativity and the joy that is so characteristic of you. A great Apostle of Brazil, Blessed José de Anchieta, set off on the mission when he was only nineteen years old. Do you know what the best tool is for evangelising the young? Another young person. This is the path to follow!

2. Do not be afraid. Some people might think: “I have no particular preparation, how can I go and proclaim the Gospel?” My dear friend, your fear is not so very different from that of Jeremiah, a young man like you, when he was called by God to be a prophet. We have just heard his words: “Ah,Lord God! Behold, I do not know how to speak, for I am only a youth”. God says the same thing to you as he said to Jeremiah: “Be not afraid … for I am with you to deliver you” (Jer 1:7,8). He is with us! “Do not be afraid!” When we go to proclaim Christ, it is he himself who goes before us and guides us. When he sent his disciples on mission, he promised: “I am with you always” (Mt28:20). And this is also true for us! Jesus does not leave us alone, he never leaves you alone! He always accompanies you.

And then, Jesus did not say: “One of you go”, but “All of you go”: we are sent together. Dear young friends, be aware of the companionship of the whole Church and also the communion of the saints on this mission. When we face challenges together, then we are strong, we discover resources we did not know we had. Jesus did not call the Apostles to live in isolation, he called them to form a group, a community. I would like to address you, dear priests celebrating with me at this Eucharist: you have come to accompany your young people, and this is wonderful, to share this experience of faith with them! But it is a stage on the journey. Continue to accompany them with generosity and joy, help them to become actively engaged in the Church; never let them feel alone!

3. The final word: serve. The opening words of the psalm that we proclaimed are: “Sing to the Lord a new song” (Psalm95:1). What is this new song? It does not consist of words, it is not a melody, it is the song of your life, it is allowing our life to be identified with that of Jesus, it is sharing his sentiments, his thoughts, his actions. And the life of Jesus is a life for others. It is a life of service. In our Second Reading today, Saint Paul says: “I have made myself a slave to all, that I might win the more” (1 Cor9:19). In order to proclaim Jesus, Paul made himself “a slave to all”. Evangelising means bearing personal witness to the love of God, it is overcoming our selfishness, it is serving by bending down to wash the feet of our brethren, as Jesus did.

Go, do not be afraid, and serve. If you follow these three ideas, you will experience that the one who evangelizes is evangelized, the one who transmits the joy of faith receives joy. Dear young friends, as you return to your homes, do not be afraid to be generous with Christ, to bear witness to his Gospel. In the first Reading, when God sends the prophet Jeremiah, he gives him the power to “pluck up and to break down, to destroy and to overthrow, to build and to plant” (1:10). It is the same for you. Bringing the Gospel is bringing God’s power to pluck up and break down evil and violence, to destroy and overthrow the barriers of selfishness, intolerance and hatred, so as to build a new world. Jesus Christ is counting on you! The Church is counting on you! The Pope is counting on you! May Mary, Mother of Jesus and our Mother, always accompany you with her tenderness: “Go and make disciples of all nations”. Amen.

I've heard this same type of message in Pentecostal churches. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I see nowhere in this speech where the Pope is telling the youth to advance the Catholic Church. The message is simple, and should be one that Pentecostals hear and do. Several times he says to proclaim the Gospel, and proclaim Jesus. Go, and serve!

I'll probably be criticized for saying this...but it's a great message.

SOURCE LINK (http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2013/07/28/wyd-2013-full-text-of-pope-franciss-homily-for-world-youth-days-closing-mass/)

[KWSS1976]

The Catholic church is not to far off base with regular Christian churches as it is, and I bet the new Pope will bring them closer in line with us

[Esaias]

The Catholic church is not to far off base with regular Christian churches as it is, and I bet the new Pope will bring them closer in line with us

The goal has been and still is to reunite all churches with mother Rome.

[renee819]

Wonderful message, and Bro Moody said almost the same thing in his message, “No Fear Zone”

So are we going to accuse Bro Moody of lying, stretching the truth, or being misled, when he quoted the Wall Street Journal? Or was that all of the Popes message?

Quote
The Wall Street Journal's weekend edition of July 20-21, 2013 pointed out that the recent trip of Pope Francis to Brazil, originally planned by his predecessor, more than anything else was an effort to rally the troops in a worldwide awakening combating the growing influence of Pentecostalism. The Catholic membership has dropped from 96% of the population of Brazil to 67%. Their losses is overwhelming to Pentacostals

Bro moody contined,
The guntlet has been dropped, not only in religious circles, but in culture as well. Anti-Christian forces are demonstrating new boldness. They are pro-homosexual, hate any sign of holiness and absolutism, and they believe they have the majority numbers on their side. For those that love the Lord, may I say, this is not a good time to be afraid.

The Apostles clearly laid their lives on the line. They lived in the “no fear zone” Imagine what it would be like to live in the no fear zone. Facing down every fear. Overcoming every fear. The day is here. The time is now. There is no other option for believers except to give all.


My point in posting this article is, even though they receive the Holy Ghost, if they continue in the Paganism of the Catholic Church, I don't believe that they will be saved, bowing down to idols, worshiping Mary, the Trinity, etc., They are mixing Religion with what could be their Salvation.

And yet, if they will listen to the Holy Ghost, they very well could be led to the full gospel.
For instance, a former Pastor met a Catholic nurse in the hospital, that had received the Holy Ghost. He told her about being baptized in Jesus name, she understood it and came and was baptized. Even though she had received the Holy Ghost, she still went to the Catholic Church and still was preforming the rituals.

The Holy Ghost imparts the divine nature inside of us. But that does not mean that the divine nature can't be seared over as with a hot iron, if the person doesn't have teaching. Or doesn't study God's Word on their own, and does not listen to the Holy Ghost.

In other words, it takes the Holy Ghost to be saved, and yet, the Holy Ghost alone, won't save you. And mixing the Holy Ghost with false doctrine, is worse that not even knowing about the Holy Ghost. And I believe that God hates this mixing just as much as He did the Israelitee, that, “feared God and served their own gods.”

[KWSS1976]

Whos to say those that practice the Catholic faith have it wrong...We might be the ones to have it wrong...Thats something that drives me up a wall to say another religion has it wrong, they practice what they have known there whole life,just as we do and I don't think God is judging that...As a matter of fact if God was to come on this earth and look at how we have done church, he would just nod his head in disbelief and leave..

[n david]

Wonderful message, and Bro Moody said almost the same thing in his message, “No Fear Zone”

So are we going to accuse Bro Moody of lying, stretching the truth, or being misled, when he quoted the Wall Street Journal? Or was that all of the Popes message?
I would like more information from Moody, including his footnotes. I simply copied and pasted from the Catholic Herald website. The headline says "Full Text...." so I would assume it is indeed the full text.

Here is the WSJ article Moody is referencing...

SOURCE LINK (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323309404578613752651362278.html)

Now, here's what Moody writes:
The Wall Street Journal's weekend edition of July 20-21, 2013 pointed out that the recent trip of Pope Francis to Brazil, originally planned by his predecessor, more than anything else was an effort to rally the troops in a worldwide awakening combating the growing influence of Pentecostalism. The Catholic membership has dropped from 96% of the population of Brazil to 67%. Their losses is overwhelming to Pentecostals.

There is no mention of 96% in the WSJ article, where did he get that number? From the WSJ article:

The population of Brazil that calls itself Catholic fell to 65% in 2010, down nine percentage points from a decade earlier. In the 1950s, more than 90% of Brazilians identified themselves as Catholics.

Also, he says the article pointed out that "more than anything else [the trip] was an effort to rally the troops in a worldwide awakening combating the growing influence of Pentecostalism..."

Really?!? Because here's what the WSJ actually says:

More important, he [Pope Francis] wanted the trip to drive home what he considered the major theme of his papacy: ministering to the poor.

Brazil would provide Pope Francis with a poignant backdrop to advance his agenda: to show that his papacy, and the Catholic Church at large, stood firmly on the side of the world's poor in the fight for economic justice.
This wasn't rally the troops because we're losing people to Pentecostal churches. The article mentions NOTHING about that.

In fact, the word "Pentecostal" is mentioned only one time, and it's not as Moody alleges. Moody says

Their losses is overwhelming to Pentecostals.

The WSJ article says this
In addition, evangelical Protestant churches imported from the U.S. or homegrown are on the rise. Brazil is a case in point: One-room evangelical churches now dot the landscape, from remote Amazon villages to the labyrinthine slums that surround the country's major cities.

At one evangelical megachurch on a poor outskirt of Rio de Janeiro, evangelical pastor Silas Malafaia forged an electric connection with thousands jammed into his multifloor church with lively music and emotional—even joke-filled—speeches that enlivened the crowd.

In an attempt to stem the flow of faithful to Pentecostal churches, some Catholic priests in Brazil have begun to adopt parts of the Evangelical playbook, such as raucous singing and occasionally speaking in tongues, to reach people who find the divine in emotionally charged church experiences.
Since when did the UPC consider itself an Evangelical Protestant church?

[n david]

Whos to say those that practice the Catholic faith have it wrong...We might be the ones to have it wrong...Thats something that drives me up a wall to say another religion has it wrong, they practice what they have known there whole life,just as we do and I don't think God is judging that...As a matter of fact if God was to come on this earth and look at how we have done church, he would just nod his head in disbelief and leave..
Really? The Catholic church worships Mary and prays to graven images of saints and mother Mary. They don't believe in the Biblical plan of salvation. They most definitely have it wrong.

[KWSS1976]

http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/do-catholics-worship-mary/

[n david]

http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/do-catholics-worship-mary/
And? A Catholic blog saying Catholics don't "worship" Mary per se, but they do pray to her and other saints, kneel before graven images of her, etc. That's worship, no matter what some Catholic tries to deny.

[Esaias]

Whos to say those that practice the Catholic faith have it wrong...We might be the ones to have it wrong...Thats something that drives me up a wall to say another religion has it wrong, they practice what they have known there whole life,just as we do and I don't think God is judging that...As a matter of fact if God was to come on this earth and look at how we have done church, he would just nod his head in disbelief and leav.

There are so many problems with this post of yours I don't even know where to begin.

I'll just list a few bulletin points:

1. I don't think you have studied the history or the origins of the Roman Catholic Church.

2. Every religion except the religion of the apostles of Jesus Christ 'has it wrong'.

3. I have not been a Christian my whole life. I practice what I learn in Scripture (though admittedly probably not as perfectly as I should).

4. God judges everyone and everything, especially in the arena of 'religion'.

5. God does not visit his people, see they are in error, and 'just nod his head in disbelief and leave.' When God visits his people, and sees they are in error, he rebukes them. If they fail to repent, eventually he will 'spew them from his mouth' and 'remove their candlestick'.

God is no Care Bear in the sky, nor does he 'not care' about 'silly doctrinal differences'. Doctrine is important, and necessary to one's salvation.

Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee. 1 Tim 4:16

[NotforSale]

And? A Catholic blog saying Catholics don't "worship" Mary per se, but they do pray to her and other saints, kneel before graven images of her, etc. That's worship, no matter what some Catholic tries to deny.

Yeah, Apostolics may not pray to Mother Mary, but they do worship the Clergy like they are "gods", giving them more attention than Jesus received. Nowhere did Jesus sit on a platform with his $1000.00, 3 piece suit, where the Church hierarchy is praised and feared as untouchables. Apostolics also worship the fact that they know the "Truth", they are "Separate", and that they are "Saved", while the rest of Religion isn't.

I've spent time behind the curtain, and our vanity is no different than other Christian Faiths. We are also direct offshoots of the Catholic Church: Christmas, Easter, Church on Sunday, the Wedding Ceremony, our King James Bible, Temple Worship; folks, whether we like it or not, we are Catholics in the shadows and our heritage truly comes from Rome.

[Esaias]

We are also direct offshoots of the Catholic Church: Christmas, Easter, Church on Sunday, the Wedding Ceremony, our King James Bible, Temple Worship; folks, whether we like it or not, we are Catholics in the shadows and our heritage truly comes from Rome.

Speak for yourself.

[NotforSale]

Speak for yourself.

I am speaking for myself. I'm also speaking for you. You are a Catholic in the shadows.

[n david]

Yeah, Apostolics may not pray to Mother Mary, but they do worship the Clergy like they are "gods", giving them more attention than Jesus received. Nowhere did Jesus sit on a platform with his $1000.00, 3 piece suit, where the Church hierarchy is praised and feared as untouchables. Apostolics also worship the fact that they know the "Truth", they are "Separate", and that they are "Saved", while the rest of Religion isn't.

I've spent time behind the curtain, and our vanity is no different than other Christian Faiths. We are also direct offshoots of the Catholic Church: Christmas, Easter, Church on Sunday, the Wedding Ceremony, our King James Bible, Temple Worship; folks, whether we like it or not, we are Catholics in the shadows and our heritage truly comes from Rome.
Balderdash.

[NotforSale]

Balderdash.

:bored

[Esaias]

I am speaking for myself. I'm also speaking for you. You are a Catholic in the shadows.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

I wasn't raised in ANY church. I was never a member of a 'Protestant' church.

I was not baptised by any Protestant or Catholic., in any catholic baptism (or Protestant for that matter).

I don't hold to any doctrines which are distinctly catholic, or which originated with the catholic church.

I am not a catholic, closet or otherwise. Never have been, never will be.

Like I said, speak for yourself. You don't get to speak for me.

[NotforSale]

You have no idea what you are talking about.

I wasn't raised in ANY church. I was never a member of a 'Protestant' church.

I was not baptised by any Protestant or Catholic., in any catholic baptism (or Protestant for that matter).

I don't hold to any doctrines which are distinctly catholic, or which originated with the catholic church.

I am not a catholic, closet or otherwise. Never have been, never will be.

Like I said, speak for yourself. You don't get to speak for me.

Are you a Christian?

[Esaias]

Are you a Christian?

Yep. And that does not make me a catholic.

Unless, you are a catholic and you think all christianity comes from the catholic church.

In which case you are sadly mistaken.

[NotforSale]

Yep. And that does not make me a catholic.

Unless, you are a catholic and you think all christianity comes from the catholic church.

In which case you are sadly mistaken.

Do you celebrate Christmas? Do you use a King James Bible?

[n david]

:bored
Funny, that's pretty much the reaction I had to your dumb post.

[Esaias]

Who is catholic?

"No one can have God as Father who does not have the Church as Mother" (St. Cyprian, De unit. 6: PL 4, 519).

But the unity of the pilgrim Church is also assured by visible bonds of communion:

- profession of one faith received from the Apostles;

-common celebration of divine worship, especially of the sacraments;

- apostolic succession through the sacrament of Holy Orders, maintaining the fraternal concord of God's family. (from Catechism of the Catholic Church, http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/catechism/index.cfm?recnum=3034 )

However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers .... All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church. (ibid, above link)

So, a catholic is one has Rome as 'his Mother'. She is not my Mother.

A catholic is one who is submitted to the authority of the Roman Catholic Church via it's pretended claims to 'apostolic succession'. I do not, am not, and will not be.

BTW, the link above shows the plan the RCC has for the re-absorption of all her Protestant 'daughters'. Thankfully, I am not included.

A catholic is one admitted into the church via 'baptism'. What baptism?

239 The essential rite of the sacrament follows: Baptism properly speaking. It signifies and actually brings about death to sin and entry into the life of the Most Holy Trinity through configuration to the Paschal mystery of Christ. Baptism is performed in the most expressive way by triple immersion in the baptismal water. However, from ancient times it has also been able to be conferred by pouring the water three times over the candidate's head.

1240 In the Latin Church this triple infusion is accompanied by the minister's words: "N., I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." In the Eastern liturgies the catechumen turns toward the East and the priest says: "The servant of God, N., is baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." At the invocation of each person of the Most Holy Trinity, the priest immerses the candidate in the water and raises him up again. - http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a1.htm

Thus, the baptism that the RCC believes makes you a member of the catholic church is trinitarian baptism.

I was baptised in the name of Jesus Christ. Too bad for me, huh?

Note that the Church recognizes the validity of baptisms performed in non-Catholic Christian ceremonies, provided that they include the use of water and this Trinitarian formula.... Some of the less well known denominations, such as some Unitarians or branches of the Pentecostals, have ceremonies that may look very much like a baptism but which fail to use the Trinitarian formulation. When the pastor finds that a prospective convert to Catholicism has been “baptized” in such a ceremony, the baptism must be performed again, this time using the correct wording. - http://catholicexchange.com/inclusive-language-and-baptismal-validity/

In other words, Mother Rome doesn't recognize my baptism as a baptism at all, thus Mother Rome doesn't consider me a catholic, closet or otherwise. Again, too bad for me, eh?

Now, what about those people who were once baptised with a trinitarian formula, but who were then baptised in the name of Jesus Christ?

Mother Rome claims them as her errant, wayward children. But what does God say?

He says they were baptised into His death, and thus any bondages attached to them previously must of course be MOOT and INVALID.

Egypt thought they could go recapture Israel. Too bad for them, though... eh?

[NotforSale]

Funny, that's pretty much the reaction I had to your dumb post.

"Dumb post"...be careful using that word. You might get a warning from the AFF police.

To be honest, your reaction speaks for itself. No facts. No truth. No nothing.

[NotforSale]

Who is catholic?

"No one can have God as Father who does not have the Church as Mother" (St. Cyprian, De unit. 6: PL 4, 519).

But the unity of the pilgrim Church is also assured by visible bonds of communion:

- profession of one faith received from the Apostles;

-common celebration of divine worship, especially of the sacraments;

- apostolic succession through the sacrament of Holy Orders, maintaining the fraternal concord of God's family. (from Catechism of the Catholic Church, http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/catechism/index.cfm?recnum=3034 )

However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers .... All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church. (ibid, above link)

So, a catholic is one has Rome as 'his Mother'. She is not my Mother.

A catholic is one who is submitted to the authority of the Roman Catholic Church via it's pretended claims to 'apostolic succession'. I do not, am not, and will not be.

BTW, the link above shows the plan the RCC has for the re-absorption of all her Protestant 'daughters'. Thankfully, I am not included.

A catholic is one admitted into the church via 'baptism'. What baptism?

239 The essential rite of the sacrament follows: Baptism properly speaking. It signifies and actually brings about death to sin and entry into the life of the Most Holy Trinity through configuration to the Paschal mystery of Christ. Baptism is performed in the most expressive way by triple immersion in the baptismal water. However, from ancient times it has also been able to be conferred by pouring the water three times over the candidate's head.

1240 In the Latin Church this triple infusion is accompanied by the minister's words: "N., I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." In the Eastern liturgies the catechumen turns toward the East and the priest says: "The servant of God, N., is baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." At the invocation of each person of the Most Holy Trinity, the priest immerses the candidate in the water and raises him up again. - http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a1.htm

Thus, the baptism that the RCC believes makes you a member of the catholic church is trinitarian baptism.

I was baptised in the name of Jesus Christ. Too bad for me, huh?

- http://catholicexchange.com/inclusive-language-and-baptismal-validity/

In other words, Mother Rome doesn't recognize my baptism as a baptism at all, thus Mother Rome doesn't consider me a catholic, closet or otherwise. Again, too bad for me, eh?

Now, what about those people who were once baptised with a trinitarian formula, but who were then baptised in the name of Jesus Christ?

Mother Rome claims them as her errant, wayward children. But what does God say?

He says they were baptised into His death, and thus any bondages attached to them previously must of course be MOOT and INVALID.

Egypt thought they could go recapture Israel. Too bad for them, though... eh?

You didn't answer my questions: Do you celebrate Christmas? Do you use a King James Bible?

[Esaias]

Do you celebrate Christmas? Do you use a King James Bible?

I most emphatically do NOT celebrate Christmas, or Easter, nor do I bother with Sunday.

I do keep Passover (and the others, too - we just got finished with Tabernacles) and the Sabbath (the seventh day is the Sabbath).

As for the bible, although I do often use the King James bible I also use Brenton's Greek-English Interlinear Septuagint, Berry's Interlinear New Testament, the 1560 Geneva Bible, and others as well.

I do NOT use the Vulgate, the Douay-Rheims, the Challonier Revision, the Jerusalem Bible, the New American Bible, the New Jerusalem Bible, or the New Revised Standard Version - all approved for use by catholics.

You do realise that even if I used the King James ONLY, at best it would make me a King James Only advocate, and certainly not a catholic? In fact, I have a catholic bible which states in the front in the preface concerning 'other versions' that catholics are NOT ALLOWED TO USE THE KING JAMES VERSION'.

Gee, I wonder why?

[Esaias]

You didn't answer my questions:

I wasn't intending to answer your questions in the post you quoted.

It's not all about you.

[TGBTG]

I most emphatically do NOT celebrate Christmas, or Easter, nor do I bother with Sunday.

I do keep Passover (and the others, too - we just got finished with Tabernacles) and the Sabbath (the seventh day is the Sabbath).

You keep all the feasts of Leviticus 23?

[Esaias]

You keep all the feasts of Leviticus 23?

My daughter was baptised this last 'Day of Atonement' in fact. Perfect timing, if you ask me, although nobody (but God) planned it that way.

[NotforSale]

I most emphatically do NOT celebrate Christmas, or Easter, nor do I bother with Sunday.

I do keep Passover (and the others, too - we just got finished with Tabernacles) and the Sabbath (the seventh day is the Sabbath).

As for the bible, although I do often use the King James bible I also use Brenton's Greek-English Interlinear Septuagint, Berry's Interlinear New Testament, the 1560 Geneva Bible, and others as well.

I do NOT use the Vulgate, the Douay-Rheims, the Challonier Revision, the Jerusalem Bible, the New American Bible, the New Jerusalem Bible, or the New Revised Standard Version - all approved for use by catholics.

You do realise that even if I used the King James ONLY, at best it would make me a King James Only advocate, and certainly not a catholic? In fact, I have a catholic bible which states in the front in the preface concerning 'other versions' that catholics are NOT ALLOWED TO USE THE KING JAMES VERSION'.

Gee, I wonder why?

Why are you on this Forum? You aren't even an Apostolic.

[KWSS1976]

Read these in order to understand we come from the Catholics somewere down the line...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_England

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Methodist_Church

http://www.cai.org/bible-studies/history-pentecostal-movement

[Esaias]

Why are you on this Forum? You aren't even an Apostolic.

ROFLOL!!!!

That's funny right there, I don't care WHO you are!

:ursofunny:toofunny:slaphappy

[NotforSale]

I wasn't intending to answer your questions in the post you quoted.

It's not all about you.

Never said this is about me.

We'll keep digging to find out who you are and what you believe. In the end, we'll see that Religion has got a hold of your neck.

[Esaias]

Read these in order to understand we come from the Catholics somewere down the line...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_England

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Methodist_Church

http://www.cai.org/bible-studies/history-pentecostal-movement

Maybe YOU came from the catholics 'somewhere down the line', but I sure didn't. Oh, sure, my dad's family were catholic (I had pactically zero contact with them), my dad was a Buddhist, my mom was a Baptist, big deal.

*I* got my 'Christian heritage' from the Bible.

I got the Holy Ghost before I ever met any 'pentecostal people'. I was baptised in the name of Jesus Christ by a UPC minister in a jacuzzi in a rented racquetball club, but as I posted... even the RCC doesn't accept that - or us - as remotely 'catholic', unlike the Protestants and all other trintiarians.

[Esaias]

Never said this is about me.

We'll keep digging to find out who you are and what you believe. In the end, we'll see that Religion has got a hold of your neck.

:laffatu

I needed a good laugh today. Thanks!

[Esaias]

BTW, I sure do hope 'religion has got ahold of me'.

God help me if it didn't.

[n david]

To be honest, your reaction speaks for itself. No facts. No truth. No nothing.
And your quote below is factual and truthful? :slaphappy

Yeah, Apostolics may not pray to Mother Mary, but they do worship the Clergy like they are "gods", giving them more attention than Jesus received. Nowhere did Jesus sit on a platform with his $1000.00, 3 piece suit, where the Church hierarchy is praised and feared as untouchables. Apostolics also worship the fact that they know the "Truth", they are "Separate", and that they are "Saved", while the rest of Religion isn't.

I've spent time behind the curtain, and our vanity is no different than other Christian Faiths. We are also direct offshoots of the Catholic Church: Christmas, Easter, Church on Sunday, the Wedding Ceremony, our King James Bible, Temple Worship; folks, whether we like it or not, we are Catholics in the shadows and our heritage truly comes from Rome.
No facts. No truth. No sense.

[Esaias]

And your quote below is factual and truthful? :slaphappy


No facts. No truth. No sense.

You're just in denial cause you're a Shadow Catholic and don't wanna admit it.

:heeheehee

[NotforSale]

BTW, I sure do hope 'religion has got ahold of me'.

God help me if it didn't.

Don't worry, Religion has got a hold of you. That's why you're blind.

[NotforSale]

You're just in denial cause you're a Shadow Catholic and don't wanna admit it.

:heeheehee

I'm not a shadow Catholic; I am a Catholic.

[n david]

You're just in denial cause you're a Shadow Catholic and don't wanna admit it.

:heeheehee
:lol Ya got me. I admit it. I have a KJV Bible. That explains the 40lb family KJV bible my parents had in the living room growing up. Had all these pictures of Joseph, Mary, Jesus and the Disciples in the middle and the family tree in the front.

I'm Catholic and I didn't even know it!

[NotforSale]

And your quote below is factual and truthful? :slaphappy


No facts. No truth. No sense.

Where?

[Esaias]

I'm not a shadow Catholic; I am a Catholic.

Good for you. BTW, I was talking to the other guy.

Been to confession lately? It's lookin' like you might need it.

[NotforSale]

Good for you. BTW, I was talking to the other guy.

Been to confession lately? It's lookin' like you might need it.

Yeah, I'm about due for that...wanna come? You need it too!!

[Esaias]

:lol Ya got me. I admit it. I have a KJV Bible. That explains the 40lb family KJV bible my parents had in the living room growing up. Had all these pictures and the family tree in the front.

I'm Catholic and I didn't even know it!

If yer catholic and don't know it clap yer hands! :highfive
If yer catholic and don't know it clap yer hands! :highfive
If yer catholic and don't know it, the King James bible'll surely show it,
If yer catholic and don't know it clap yer hands! :highfive

[Esaias]

Yeah, I'm about due for that...wanna come? You need it too!!

You must be new to the catholic faith: http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?p=1099012#post1099012

Recent convert?

[n david]

If yer catholic and don't know it clap yer hands! :highfive
If yer catholic and don't know it clap yer hands! :highfive
If yer catholic and don't know it, the King James bible'll surely show it,
If yer catholic and don't know it clap yer hands! :highfive
:clap :rooting

[NotforSale]

You must be new to the catholic faith: http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?p=1099012#post1099012

Recent convert?

You know what they say, Once a Catholic, Always a Catholic. I was raised a Catholic for the first 18 years of my life. No regrets.

Been in the Apostolic movement for the last 35 years. Religion is Religion.

[KWSS1976]

While we are Mixing Religion, lets mix some music also....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60ll3753Xwk

[Esaias]

They got BIG mixers in England -

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/Giant_mixer%5E_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1514426.jpg

[KWSS1976]

Man you could blend you up a good strong drink in that one, just like the bible says in Deuteronomy 14:26

[Esaias]

They got BIG mixers in England -

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/Giant_mixer%5E_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1514426.jpg

I wonder if that's actually a TARDIS...?

[KWSS1976]

Dont know but I bet it would get your ice shaved down good for that Strong Drink...

[Praxeas]

Why would Pentecostals, be upset at "Catholics are holding their own Pentecostal meetings" as stated above...To me that would be great seeing that. Dont see what Bro Moody is so upset about after all Petecostals have been imitating or trying to imitate Penetecost in the bible for years, so what makes the Catholics imitating Petecostals any diffrent..

He was upset?

[Esaias]

He was upset?

You're late to the party. We've moved on to strong drink.

Click the link in my sig line and help us out!!!

[KWSS1976]

Yall have to keep up, first its worldly music and now a wordly blender, then strong drink that the wordly blender made...

[KWSS1976]

Here is my drink I mixed up with the blender...mighty tasty...

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/biggest-record-breaking-drinks-9.jpg

[renee819]

Whos to say those that practice the Catholic faith have it wrong...We might be the ones to have it wrong...Thats something that drives me up a wall to say another religion has it wrong, they practice what they have known there whole life,just as we do and I don't think God is judging that...As a matter of fact if God was to come on this earth and look at how we have done church, he would just nod his head in disbelief and leave..

KWSS, to make a statement like that, shows me that you sure have not done much study, ohat we believe as well as what others believe.

[KWSS1976]

O l know how we believe as well as others, its just sad Folks don't study original church history and just bag on others cause they do not believe the same way..

[Praxeas]

O l know how we believe as well as others, its just sad Folks don't study original church history and just bag on others cause they do not believe the same way..

Ive studied a lot of Church history...what is the point?

[renee819]

O l know how we believe as well as others, its just sad Folks don't study original church history and just bag on others cause they do not believe the same way..

I've studied plenty of church history. From Genesis to Revelations and then the different Denominations.

Have you?