Thoughts?: Islam vs. Christianity

[Aquila]

What are your thoughts on the point made by this Muslim?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzmGLrTFtls

[odooley6985]

What are your thoughts on the point made by this Muslim?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzmGLrTFtls

Can you sum it up?

[seekerman]

What are your thoughts on the point made by this Muslim?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzmGLrTFtls

They're valid points. He's right. There's lots wrong with the KJV bible, but to be fair there's lots wrong with the koran also.

[Praxeas]

Can you sum it up?
lol

[Praxeas]

Criticizing the KJV isn't a valid point against Christianity. Even Christians criticize it

[seekerman]

His points about 'ascension' are wrong though.

[Esaias]

There's lots wrong with the KJV bible,

Such as? (Besides the fact you don't like it, of course.)

[Praxeas]

Out dated archaic language. Translation

[seekerman]

Such as? (Besides the fact you don't like it, of course.)

What prax said.

[Esaias]

I don't see how 'Translation' is an objection, unless ya'll say we must only use Greek and Hebrew???

As for 'outdated, archaic language', are you saying you cannot understand the English used in the King James version?

[Praxeas]

I don't see how 'Translation' is an objection, unless ya'll say we must only use Greek and Hebrew???

As for 'outdated, archaic language', are you saying you cannot understand the English used in the King James version?

How the KJV translates the Greek and Hebrew. Some of the reasons for that are advances in our understanding of koine/biblical Greek and ancient Hebrew/Aramaic that they did not have back then

[Esaias]

How the KJV translates the Greek and Hebrew. Some of the reasons for that are advances in our understanding of koine/biblical Greek and ancient Hebrew/Aramaic that they did not have back then

Examples?

BTW, you said 'archaic, outdated language'. That means the English used in the KJV is 'archaic, outdated'. That is a different claim than 'advances in our understanding of Greek/Hebrew have made us aware the KJV is INCORRECT in it's translation', which is what you seem to be implying now.

[Praxeas]

Examples?

BTW, you said 'archaic, outdated language'. That means the English used in the KJV is 'archaic, outdated'.
Correct


That is a different claim than 'advances in our understanding of Greek/Hebrew have made us aware the KJV is INCORRECT in it's translation', which is what you seem to be implying now.
That is what I originally said Brother. Im not implying anything new


There are TWO different issues. An English language nobody uses anymore AND translation.

[Fraxeas]

Regardless of that; a lexicon cannot lie, but only expand truth:
http://biblehub.com/lexicon/1_john/5-7.htm
Strong's #s, etc. All right there.
Note "Aramaic Bible in Plain English" translation, equally as valid as the others?

[Walks_in_islam]

The KJV is hopelessly full of discrepencies and the passages were tweaked during interpretation.

Most of what Jesus did or taught has been lost and his teachings were replaced with a religion created by people who came after Him and who did not know Him. After hundreds of years of straight faced pretending that it is an "infallable document" and forcing it down the throats of millions the churches are just now starting to admit this.

No apologies can be found on behalf of those millions. Hell however is probably full of those who sent them down the wrong paths

As to examples the descrepencies have been discussed on these boards at length. You can probably search descrepency and find the discussions. There are too many examples to list.

Examples?

BTW, you said 'archaic, outdated language'. That means the English used in the KJV is 'archaic, outdated'. That is a different claim than 'advances in our understanding of Greek/Hebrew have made us aware the KJV is INCORRECT in it's translation', which is what you seem to be implying now.

[Aquila]

Some of the discrepancies in the Bible have troubled me for some time. Not to mention how the more and more I'm in this the more and more I realize that nearly no single Christian entirely agrees and we all condemn one another to Hell for it. It's confusion.

[Praxeas]

Some of the discrepancies in the Bible have troubled me for some time. Not to mention how the more and more I'm in this the more and more I realize that nearly no single Christian entirely agrees and we all condemn one another to Hell for it. It's confusion.
Speak for yourself. WE don't ALL condemn one another to hell for it. That's your little world.

[Aquila]

Speak for yourself. WE don't ALL condemn one another to hell for it. That's your little world.

You've never condemned another fellow Christian that disagreed with you?

[Walks_in_islam]

Speak for yourself. WE don't ALL condemn one another to hell for it. That's your little world.

Sure you do. You have a specific idea of what "salvation" is and outside of the path that you have laid out for it in your mind those who do not follow that path are condemned.

This is despite numerous accounts by those outside that path who have been across the river, and come back, and have not gone to hell. This itself should tell you that you are and have been wrong. Perhaps you should study those accounts.

[Pressing-On]

This is from 2007, but he says some relevant things here.

"We have had two great advantages. The one is that Christ actually embeds in the NT that you give to Caesar what is Caesars, and you give to God what is Gods. So, there is a duality in the Christian model that does not exist in the Muslim model. The other advantage that we have had is that starting with the Reformation and the Counter-Reformation, we have collided with Modernity and we have adjusted."

Islam, Religious Violence and Modernity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMm2aPalBRU#t=122

[Walks_in_islam]

You have collided with Modernity and you have compromised - one belief after another

[FlamingZword]

You have collided with Modernity and you have compromised - one belief after another

well at least we have not tried to destroy modernity and go back to the 7th century.

Please tell me what modern advance or discovery has the Muslim lands done, they are still stuck in the 7th century.

we would have to erase 14 centuries of modern progress to be at the same level.

[Walks_in_islam]

well at least we have not tried to destroy modernity and go back to the 7th century.

Please tell me what modern advance or discovery has the Muslim lands done, they are still stuck in the 7th century.

we would have to erase 14 centuries of modern progress to be at the same level.

"Please tell me what modern advance or discovery has the Muslim lands done"

You must have studied illiteracy in a modern public school?

“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” Twain

You should visit Doha, Dubai, Kuwait City, Abu Dhabi. It will give you an opportunity to contrast those places to the cesspools of violence here in the US.

[FlamingZword]

"Please tell me what modern advance or discovery has the Muslim lands done"

You must have studied illiteracy in a modern public school?

“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” Twain

You should visit Doha, Dubai, Kuwait City, Abu Dhabi. It will give you an opportunity to contrast those places to the cesspools of violence here in the US.

If the US is a cesspool of violence here, then why would people all over the world want to come here, instead of your countries?

America gets thousands of applications to come here, how many people apply to go to those beautiful violence free countries?

If America is such a horrible violent place why are you here?

[justlookin]

"Please tell me what modern advance or discovery has the Muslim lands done"

You must have studied illiteracy in a modern public school?

“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” Twain

You should visit Doha, Dubai, Kuwait City, Abu Dhabi. It will give you an opportunity to contrast those places to the cesspools of violence here in the US.

Cesspools of violence? While America has it's share of problems, it's nothing to compare to many Islamic countries. Watch the elections in the Muslim country of Afghanistan tomorrow. The violence has already started by shooting and murdering. Typical Muslim behavior. Enemies of freedom.

"Kabul, Afghanistan (CNN) -- An Associated Press photographer was shot to death on the eve of Afghanistan's elections in an attack that wounded the news agency's long-time reporter in the region."

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/140404113108-01-anja-niedringhaus-horizontal-gallery.jpg

And you'll see more of this Muslim behavior in the elections tomorrow.

http://en.trend.az/article_photo/2008/09/27/Blast_Damascus_270908.jpg

[justlookin]

You should visit Doha, Dubai, Kuwait City, Abu Dhabi. It will give you an opportunity to contrast those places to the cesspools of violence here in the US.

The reason cities like Dubai, Kuwait City are relatively peaceful, in contrast to the widespread violence in many Muslim countries, is that Dubai and Kuwait City have become westernized to an extent. The more westernized the Muslim country or city, the less violence you see. As the country becomes less westernized and more radical Muslim, the more violence you'll see.

That's proven almost every week.

[Walks_in_islam]

The reason cities like Dubai, Kuwait City are relatively peaceful, in contrast to the widespread violence in many Muslim countries, is that Dubai and Kuwait City have become westernized to an extent. The more westernized the Muslim country or city, the less violence you see. As the country becomes less westernized and more radical Muslim, the more violence you'll see.

That's proven almost every week.

At 500 murders a week here in the US you bet it's proven. There were 132 murders in Jakarta last year. City has 10,000,000 residents. That's a murder rate of 1.32 per 100000. Jakarta is PACKED. But it's Muslim. Nice place to live and work actually. Violent crime rate: 13 per 100000 residents.

US metropolitan violent crime rate is 409 per 100K residents.

Yep, whatever you are calling "westernization" is really working out well for ya

[Walks_in_islam]

Cesspools of violence? While America has it's share of problems, it's nothing to compare to many Islamic countries. Watch the elections in the Muslim country of Afghanistan tomorrow. The violence has already started by shooting and murdering. Typical Muslim behavior. Enemies of freedom.

"Kabul, Afghanistan (CNN) -- An Associated Press photographer was shot to death on the eve of Afghanistan's elections in an attack that wounded the news agency's long-time reporter in the region."

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/140404113108-01-anja-niedringhaus-horizontal-gallery.jpg

And you'll see more of this Muslim behavior in the elections tomorrow.

http://en.trend.az/article_photo/2008/09/27/Blast_Damascus_270908.jpg

Looks like a drone flew over. What was that - a wedding ?

[Walks_in_islam]

If the US is a cesspool of violence here, then why would people all over the world want to come here, instead of your countries?

America gets thousands of applications to come here, how many people apply to go to those beautiful violence free countries?

If America is such a horrible violent place why are you here?

This is my country sport. 4 generations. 3 in Texas. Better work on that "American" or "not American" based on religious preferences. With that out of the way you are now pretending that our oil and gas and petrochemical companies who are investing in the Mideast vs. here at home are doing so because they believe that it is so unstable there that it would be better to invest here?

[justlookin]

At 500 murders a week here in the US you bet it's proven. There were 132 murders in Jakarta last year. City has 10,000,000 residents. That's a murder rate of 1.32 per 100000. Jakarta is PACKED. But it's Muslim. Nice place to live and work actually. Violent crime rate: 13 per 100000 residents.

US metropolitan violent crime rate is 409 per 100K residents.

Yep, whatever you are calling "westernization" is really working out well for ya

Without the west, those moderate (relatively speaking) Muslim countries would still be hearding camels. But there are still plenty of Muslim countries which practice the violence of Islam for all the world to see.

http://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/Images/2013/3/29/2013329152349981734_20.jpg

"A series of car bombs near Shia Muslim mosques targeting worshippers attending weekly prayers have killed at least 18 people.

The blasts on Friday, which also wounded more than 100 people, struck within an hour of each other in the Baghdad neighbourhoods of Binook, Qahira, Zafraniyah and Jihad, as well as in an area of the northern city of Kirkuk.

No group immediately claimed the attacks, but Sunni Muslim fighters linked to the Iraqi branch of al-Qaeda frequently target Shia Muslims whom they regard as apostates and supporters of Nouri al-Maliki's government.



Four car bombs went off near Shia mosques across the Iraqi capital, leaving at least 14 people dead and 35 wounded, security and medical officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

And in Kirkuk, which lies 240km north of Baghdad, four people died and 71 were wounded by another car bomb targeting a Shia mosque, Sadiq Omar Rasul, the provincial health chief, said."

[justlookin]

Looks like a drone flew over. What was that - a wedding ?

No, it was the Muslims doing their thing. Killing.

[Walks_in_islam]

No, it was the Muslims doing their thing. Killing.


"From the start of operations in October through the battle of Shah-i-Kot in March 2002, the US dropped around 20,000 bombs on Afghanistan. By the end of March 2002 a total of 21,000 bombs and missiles had been dropped, the bulk of them precision-guided, since the American campaign in Afghanistan began in October 2001. As of mid-September 2002 it was reported that about 12,000 of the 24,000 bombs dropped in Afghanistan were guided munitions. Of that, about 9,000 were equipped with JDAM kits."

That's just a few months. Muslims are a long, long way from perfecting either the art of killing or the art of daily violence. Better find yourself a mirror.

[Walks_in_islam]

Without the west, those moderate (relatively speaking) Muslim countries would still be hearding camels. But there are still plenty of Muslim countries which practice the violence of Islam for all the world to see.

http://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/Images/2013/3/29/2013329152349981734_20.jpg

"A series of car bombs near Shia Muslim mosques targeting worshippers attending weekly prayers have killed at least 18 people.

The blasts on Friday, which also wounded more than 100 people, struck within an hour of each other in the Baghdad neighbourhoods of Binook, Qahira, Zafraniyah and Jihad, as well as in an area of the northern city of Kirkuk.

No group immediately claimed the attacks, but Sunni Muslim fighters linked to the Iraqi branch of al-Qaeda frequently target Shia Muslims whom they regard as apostates and supporters of Nouri al-Maliki's government.



Four car bombs went off near Shia mosques across the Iraqi capital, leaving at least 14 people dead and 35 wounded, security and medical officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

And in Kirkuk, which lies 240km north of Baghdad, four people died and 71 were wounded by another car bomb targeting a Shia mosque, Sadiq Omar Rasul, the provincial health chief, said."


You should count them all. Total violent death count in Iraq for all of 2013 was 8868. 7818 were civilians. Violent death rate was 27.2 per 100000.

Closest city to that is Birmingham, Al. Their violent death rate was 31 per 100000. Birmingham isn't anywhere near the worst place to live.

Muslim countries that are in active civil war don't even come close to the cesspools of violence that American cities have become.

[Praxeas]

You should count them all. Total violent death count in Iraq for all of 2013 was 8868. 7818 were civilians. Violent death rate was 27.2 per 100000.

Closest city to that is Birmingham, Al. Their violent death rate was 31 per 100000. Birmingham isn't anywhere near the worst place to live.

Muslim countries that are in active civil war don't even come close to the cesspools of violence that American cities have become.
You're right, Im just glad we don't have those Islamic not jobs here in the US (yet), can you imagine what the death toll would be like then with their precision guided car bombs

[Walks_in_islam]

You're right, Im just glad we don't have those Islamic not jobs here in the US (yet), can you imagine what the death toll would be like then with their precision guided car bombs

Statistically speaking I can imagine the death toll would be a lot lower than it currently is in a society guided by conservative religious right wing adherents to their precious views that every walking breathing nut job has a god given right to all the guns, ammo, and high capacity mags he or she can accumulate and all the mind-numbing drugs that he or she can take to tear down any possible tweak of conscience or sense of self-preservation that would make them pause and consider the consequences of their actions.

But that's just me. You could always stun me with a demonstration that your and your colleague's views on Muslim society actually have a statistical basis somewhere by pulling out some real numbers instead of applying individual news stories to the entire culture. The numbers are showing that even full out civil war doesn't match up to the level of random violence that a typical American city does.

What the numbers do show is that yes Muslim countries have nutjobs roaming their streets too. Their nutjobs roam in fewer numbers relative to our nutjobs resulting in an overall safer and less violent society.

Your turn. Either get some numbers or post some more stories but either way posting news stories and not numbers just further demonstrates my point. Go.

[Luke]

Statistically speaking I can imagine the death toll would be a lot lower than it currently is in a society guided by conservative religious right wing adherents to their precious views that every walking breathing nut job has a god given right to all the guns, ammo, and high capacity mags he or she can accumulate and all the mind-numbing drugs that he or she can take to tear down any possible tweak of conscience or sense of self-preservation that would make them pause and consider the consequences of their actions.

But that's just me. You could always stun me with a demonstration that your and your colleague's views on Muslim society actually have a statistical basis somewhere by pulling out some real numbers instead of applying individual news stories to the entire culture. The numbers are showing that even full out civil war doesn't match up to the level of random violence that a typical American city does.

What the numbers do show is that yes Muslim countries have nutjobs roaming their streets too. Their nutjobs roam in fewer numbers relative to our nutjobs resulting in an overall safer and less violent society.

Your turn. Either get some numbers or post some more stories but either way posting news stories and not numbers just further demonstrates my point. Go.

I dont remeber any right that americans have to take any and every drug they want being held up by right wing conservatives that is either a liberal point of view or a liberterian veiw neither of which is a conservative model.

However i do have to agree that the muslims who do bombing of buses in Israel, stoneings of women and girls who were raped commit honor killings of those who convert to another religion call for the utter destruction of the nation of Israel and the of the Jewish capital of Jerusalem. I agree they show great restraint of conscience.

When a man kills his wife in america for being raped or when a person kills their family members in america for switching religions we call them murders and prosecute them as law breakers not hold them up as faithful good upstanding citizens.

[shazeep]

that is a good point, but i think that may reflect the state of Christianity less than their state, that being "of the oppressed." Difficult (or impossible) to see from our pov, this is...but i think it is fair to say that one of the tenets at the heart of every Muslim is 'no loans with usury attached.' The foundation of our whole economy is usury; Rothschild ("Federal Reserve") dollars printed from thin air, and loaned to our government at interest.

The connection, since that is prolly non-sequitur to most, is that any Muslim, moderate or radical, must look upon our present economic system as the great satan, whereas we have just dismissed that verse in Scripture that agrees with this principle. And whereas most, if not virtually all, moderate Muslims might overlook this sin, if it were amidst a mostly benevolent world rule, i think it speaks volumes that moderate Muslims would be driven to cheer for any violence done to anyone--they are, after all, just people, and despite the rhetoric that we are ruthlessly subject to about them, are also offended by violence for the most part.

Another word might be said about Muslims, versus Islam, i think; the first are the people--different than us, but really just the same as us. The second is the established religion, which by definition must have djinn (satan) attacking it from every angle, just like ours; and so any comments made about the religion inevitably end up being read by the people, and so even when true end up being moot, and prolly offensive--any statements to the effect of "Muslims are (all) _____________" end up being as misdirected as those to us Christians.

Who here is very comfortable with many or mosrt of the tenets of the RCC? And yet Sister Alvear is an example to all. Please consider that the religion is immune to our attacks (nevermind that "What you resist persists"), and that we are called to discover where we agree (shades of Muslims living happily next to Jews, in Jaffa and throughout the mid-east, until '48, hmm), and overlook where we differ.

[shazeep]

You should count them all. Total violent death count in Iraq for all of 2013 was 8868. 7818 were civilians. Violent death rate was 27.2 per 100000.

Closest city to that is Birmingham, Al. Their violent death rate was 31 per 100000. Birmingham isn't anywhere near the worst place to live.

Muslim countries that are in active civil war don't even come close to the cesspools of violence that American cities have become.i must reiterate that i have been homeless on both the West Bank (on purpose, that one) and San Francisco (the 'happiest' city that came to mind; but i've been homeless in most of them) at dusk, and i am unmistakably white; only on the West Bank was i taken in...well, by people without an agenda for me, iow.

So tell me again, gentlemen, of your extreme examples of 'Muslim' violence pulled from questionable news sources. Now don't get me wrong, i think importing Islam here is as suicidal as marrying into another culture--but rest assured that, since division and strife sells more __________ (fences, knives, guns, whatever), and since our government is obv run by corporations now, you may as well either get used to Sharia Law now, or get ready to use that weapon for the reason Washington et al saw fit to provide for you in the Connie (which btw is not for legal foreign invasion). Oh, or you could just vote 3rd party maybe, since R&D will certainly ignore you :lol

[Walks_in_islam]

I dont remeber any right that americans have to take any and every drug they want being held up by right wing conservatives that is either a liberal point of view or a liberterian veiw neither of which is a conservative model.

However i do have to agree that the muslims who do bombing of buses in Israel, stoneings of women and girls who were raped commit honor killings of those who convert to another religion call for the utter destruction of the nation of Israel and the of the Jewish capital of Jerusalem. I agree they show great restraint of conscience.

When a man kills his wife in america for being raped or when a person kills their family members in america for switching religions we call them murders and prosecute them as law breakers not hold them up as faithful good upstanding citizens.

Israel? Really? We are talking about the United States. Since you want to talk about Israel you could explain why Rachel Corrie's parents never got their justice for their daughter who was deliberately run over by a bulldozer who was bulldozing other people's homes on other people's property to make room for Israeli settlers. What happened to that driver? Nothing. He murdered an unarmed 23 year old girl who believed what I believe. It is wrong to arbitrarily take other people's property, thrown them off of it, and bulldoze their home without compensating them for it.

I also do not believe that these beliefs belong in civilized society.

"The Jews are called human beings, but the non-Jews are not humans. They are beasts."
- Talmud: Baba mezia, 114b

"The Akum (non-Jew) is like a dog. Yes, the scripture teaches to honor the the dog more than the non-Jew."
- Ereget Raschi Erod. 22 30


"Even though God created the non-Jew they are still animals in human form. It is not becoming for a Jew to be served by an animal. Therfore he will be served by animals in human form."
- Midrasch Talpioth, p. 255, Warsaw 1855

"A pregnant non-Jew is no better than a pregnant animal."
- Coschen hamischpat 405



"The souls of non-Jews come from impure sprits and are called pigs."
- Jalkut Rubeni gadol 12b



"Although the non-Jew has the same body structure as the Jew, they compare with the Jew like a monkey to a human."
- Schene luchoth haberith, p. 250 b



"If you eat with a Gentile, it is the same as eating with a dog."
- Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b



"If a Jew has a non-Jewish servant or maid who dies, one should not express sympathy to the Jew. You should tell the Jew: "God will replace 'your loss', just as if one of his oxen or asses had died"."
- Jore dea 377, 1



"Sexual intercourse between Gentiles is like intercourse between animals."
- Talmud Sanhedrin 74b



"It is permitted to take the body and the life of a Gentile."
- Sepher ikkarim III c 25



"It is the law to kill anyone who denies the Torah. The Christians belong to the denying ones of the Torah."
- Coschen hamischpat 425 Hagah 425. 5



"A heretic Gentile you may kill outright with your own hands."
- Talmud, Abodah Zara, 4b



"Every Jew, who spills the blood of the godless (non-Jews), is doing the same as making a sacrifice to God."
- Talmud: Bammidber raba c 21 & Jalkut 772

No wonder they believe it is OK to throw people out of their homes and off their property and just take it, and on top of that run over anyone who is in their way huh? They are not my neighbors and are free to do as they wish over there but I am a bit intolerant if folks like that want to have these attitudes over here.

Didn't say you believed everyone has a right to take whatever drugs they want. Said you believe that those who do should have the right to accumulate as much firepower as they want. Probably you need to read it again.

[justlookin]

Voting in Afghanistan today. LET FREEDOM RING!! :clap

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/140405064339-06-afghanistan-election-horizontal-gallery.jpg


http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/140405064403-10-afghanistan-election-horizontal-gallery.jpg

[Walks_in_islam]

Voting in Afghanistan today. LET FREEDOM RING!! :clap

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/140405064339-06-afghanistan-election-horizontal-gallery.jpg


http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/140405064403-10-afghanistan-election-horizontal-gallery.jpg

Everybody on the planet needs a vote, a hoard of guns, and big stash of ammo. It makes society safer.

LOL

[Praxeas]

Statistically speaking I can imagine the death toll would be a lot lower than it currently is in a society guided by conservative religious right wing adherents to their precious views that every walking breathing nut job has a god given right to all the guns, ammo, and high capacity mags he or she can accumulate and all the mind-numbing drugs that he or she can take to tear down any possible tweak of conscience or sense of self-preservation that would make them pause and consider the consequences of their actions.

But that's just me. You could always stun me with a demonstration that your and your colleague's views on Muslim society actually have a statistical basis somewhere by pulling out some real numbers instead of applying individual news stories to the entire culture. The numbers are showing that even full out civil war doesn't match up to the level of random violence that a typical American city does.

What the numbers do show is that yes Muslim countries have nutjobs roaming their streets too. Their nutjobs roam in fewer numbers relative to our nutjobs resulting in an overall safer and less violent society.

Your turn. Either get some numbers or post some more stories but either way posting news stories and not numbers just further demonstrates my point. Go.
How would it be lower to combine the Islamic religious nut jobs and their car bombs with the nut jobs already here with their guns? Please explain.

[Praxeas]

that is a good point, but i think that may reflect the state of Christianity less than their state, that being "of the oppressed." Difficult (or impossible) to see from our pov, this is...but i think it is fair to say that one of the tenets at the heart of every Muslim is 'no loans with usury attached.' The foundation of our whole economy is usury; Rothschild ("Federal Reserve") dollars printed from thin air, and loaned to our government at interest.

The connection, since that is prolly non-sequitur to most, is that any Muslim, moderate or radical, must look upon our present economic system as the great satan, whereas we have just dismissed that verse in Scripture that agrees with this principle. And whereas most, if not virtually all, moderate Muslims might overlook this sin, if it were amidst a mostly benevolent world rule, i think it speaks volumes that moderate Muslims would be driven to cheer for any violence done to anyone--they are, after all, just people, and despite the rhetoric that we are ruthlessly subject to about them, are also offended by violence for the most part.

Another word might be said about Muslims, versus Islam, i think; the first are the people--different than us, but really just the same as us. The second is the established religion, which by definition must have djinn (satan) attacking it from every angle, just like ours; and so any comments made about the religion inevitably end up being read by the people, and so even when true end up being moot, and prolly offensive--any statements to the effect of "Muslims are (all) _____________" end up being as misdirected as those to us Christians.

Who here is very comfortable with many or mosrt of the tenets of the RCC? And yet Sister Alvear is an example to all. Please consider that the religion is immune to our attacks (nevermind that "What you resist persists"), and that we are called to discover where we agree (shades of Muslims living happily next to Jews, in Jaffa and throughout the mid-east, until '48, hmm), and overlook where we differ.
When American Muslims open "Bank of Allah" and give loans without interest, I'm signing up...BTW how do those banks pay employees?

[Praxeas]

Voting in Afghanistan today. LET FREEDOM RING!! :clap

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/140405064339-06-afghanistan-election-horizontal-gallery.jpg


http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/140405064403-10-afghanistan-election-horizontal-gallery.jpg
I wonder if they make those out of Denim...

[shazeep]

When American Muslims open "Bank of Allah" and give loans without interest, I'm signing up...BTW how do those banks pay employees?WII might answer that better; i am not sure. i only know that you can leave a dollar in a public place and have a high likelyhood of it being there when you return, if that place is run under sharia law. i don't think they are banks; more like micro-lending, perhaps.

[shazeep]

Everybody on the planet needs a vote, a hoard of guns, and big stash of ammo. It makes society safer.

LOL:lol

[Walks_in_islam]

How would it be lower to combine the Islamic religious nut jobs and their car bombs with the nut jobs already here with their guns? Please explain.

http://www.unodc.org/documents/gsh/pdfs/2014_GLOBAL_HOMICIDE_BOOK_web.pdf

Just in

The most unsafe region to live on the entire planet is the Americas which is where the fewest Muslims live.

The most unsafe country to live on the entire planet is Honduras which is (naturally and of course) an area where the highest percentage of Christians (>90% per capita) live.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_by_country

Where christians and christianity go instability and violence follow. You wallow in your own cesspools of instability and violence, travel across the world, create it somewhere else, then blame the people who live there for it as if it was there before you showed up. It is that way now and has always been that way.

The murder rate in Afghanistan is 7. American cities would glow with pride to achieve this. If American cities were governed by Islamic principles they could.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_murder_rate

There are zero cities in Muslim countries who make the top 50 in terms of murder rate. Except for Mosul, Iraq where of course you entered, destabilized, and left. All of them, every single one, are in the blue areas on the global map of Christianity and the worst of them are in the darker blue regions.

Can you explain this? Because "Islam is a violent religion". "Muslims are violent". "Look, according to the news Muslims are violent people". Bull-droppings. Show me some numbers. Not a single one of you can back up your statements about Muslims and Islam.

[Walks_in_islam]

Noticed this country in Africa called Lesotho. Highest murder rate in the region - 38/100K. I did not even have to check to know for certain:

Christianity is the dominant religion in Lesotho. The Christian Council of Lesotho, made up of representatives of all major Christian churches in the country, estimates that approximately 90 percent of the population are Christian.

Countries that are populated by christian people are the most violent places on the planet. Algeria, Egypt, Morocco - murder rates under 5. Less than the US actually and it is not because they are "westernized". Travel south to Lesotho, Africa - jumps by a factor of 5 and why? Because from >90% Muslim to >90% christian random violence increases in multiples.

Keep posting your news stories. They only reason they get spoon fed to you people is because your unquenchable thirst for violence ensures that the companies who pay to stick them in front of you get a wide, profitable audience. You people get absolutely excited about stories and pictures and tales of violence and discuss them, post them, swim in them, wallow in them, every chance you get. If you can bash someone else's beliefs while you do it it's all the better. That's the christian way. Wallow in as much blood from as many places as you can.

"peace on earth and goodwill" in the context of christianity and christian people is bunk. It's exactly the opposite. The stats show it, the maps show it, and the numbers show it.

[Dordrecht]

Still posting lies, junk, and filth on this forum ?
I'm surprised they still let you in here!

[Walks_in_islam]

Still posting lies, junk, and filth on this forum ?
I'm surprised they still let you in here!

Don't scramble the drones sport.

I posted the current world map of Christianity by population, the UNODC crime report, a cut and paste from the Department of State on Lesotho, and the current list of top 50 world cities by murder rate.

Which one of these are you saying was a lie Herr Dordrecht?

[Walks_in_islam]

When American Muslims open "Bank of Allah" and give loans without interest, I'm signing up...BTW how do those banks pay employees?

There are Islamic banks in the US.

Islamic banks base their business not on interest but profit-sharing in the businesses they loan money to invest. If the business does not make money then the bank does not make money.

If you have money in an Islamic bank and the bank makes money they allocate/dole out the profits to the account holders. If the bank loses money the account holders pony up the losses.

Islamic banks are not in the business of making personal loans to be squandered on consumables. Get a job for that.

[Robert Sanders]

Still posting lies, junk, and filth on this forum ?
I'm surprised they still let you in here!
Are you a Christian?

[BrotherEastman]

Noticed this country in Africa called Lesotho. Highest murder rate in the region - 38/100K. I did not even have to check to know for certain:

Christianity is the dominant religion in Lesotho. The Christian Council of Lesotho, made up of representatives of all major Christian churches in the country, estimates that approximately 90 percent of the population are Christian.

Countries that are populated by christian people are the most violent places on the planet. Algeria, Egypt, Morocco - murder rates under 5. Less than the US actually and it is not because they are "westernized". Travel south to Lesotho, Africa - jumps by a factor of 5 and why? Because from >90% Muslim to >90% christian random violence increases in multiples.

Keep posting your news stories. They only reason they get spoon fed to you people is because your unquenchable thirst for violence ensures that the companies who pay to stick them in front of you get a wide, profitable audience. You people get absolutely excited about stories and pictures and tales of violence and discuss them, post them, swim in them, wallow in them, every chance you get. If you can bash someone else's beliefs while you do it it's all the better. That's the christian way. Wallow in as much blood from as many places as you can.

"peace on earth and goodwill" in the context of christianity and christian people is bunk. It's exactly the opposite. The stats show it, the maps show it, and the numbers show it.

Yeah, that makes me wanna change to become a Muslim............................





































































































NOT!!!!!!!!!

[Dordrecht]

Are you a Christian?

Are you?

[Walks_in_islam]

Yeah, that makes me wanna change to become a Muslim............................

NOT!!!!!!!!!

I doubt that. You and your peers are addicted to talking about, reading about, celebrating, and wallowing in the blood of others and I am quite sure you would miss it a LOT.

In addition, we are much too conservative for you.

[Walks_in_islam]

Are you?

Where are my numbers herr Dordrecht? You were in the middle of describing all the lies I told. Do you need more time to think it over or did you figure out that once again, you spoke before you knew what you were talking about.

[Robert Sanders]

Where are my numbers herr Dordrecht? You were in the middle of describing all the lies I told. Do you need more time to think it over or did you figure out that once again, you spoke before you knew what you were talking about.
I would like to converse with you heart to heart. I would like to discuss with you why you believe what you believe?

[phareztamar]

I would like to converse with you heart to heart. I would like to discuss with you why you believe what you believe?

A match (pardon the pun) made in heaven.

[Dordrecht]

A match (pardon the pun) made in heaven.

:thumbsup

[Walks_in_islam]

:thumbsup

Going back to yipping on the sidelines is the best choice you made all day. Gonna let one little Texan shup you?

Figures that you can't answer the question though Herr Dordrecht

"the Netherlands saw one of the highest levels of collaboration during the Holocaust of any occupied country. 75% of the country's Jewish population were killed during the conflict; a much higher percentage than comparable countries, like Belgium and France."

Things like that start with a "reformation" and what follows? A bloodbath.

[Walks_in_islam]

A match (pardon the pun) made in heaven.

Got something to add to this discussion sport or are you just surfing?

[BrotherEastman]

I doubt that. You and your peers are addicted to talking about, reading about, celebrating, and wallowing in the blood of others and I am quite sure you would miss it a LOT.

In addition, we are much too conservative for you.

Muslims are going to hell

[phareztamar]

Got something to add to this discussion sport or are you just surfing?

No, sport, just surfing. But you and Robert should get together. Robert is as lost as a ball in high weeds. And you are a member of Satan's second greatest accomplishment on earth...islam. Should make for interesting conversation. Got a statistic for that, sport?

[Walks_in_islam]

No, sport, just surfing. But you and Robert should get together. Robert is as lost as a ball in high weeds. And you are a member of Satan's second greatest accomplishment on earth...islam. Should make for interesting conversation. Got a statistic for that, sport?

You are free to generate all the statistics you want. Satan's "greatest accomplishment" is the river of death that follows Christianity around the globe.

Pass the plate and gimme hallelujah on your way out.

[Walks_in_islam]

Muslims are going to hell

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Matt 7:2

[BrotherEastman]

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Matt 7:2

OMG You quote from a Christian bible and you quoted Jesus for good measure? I am really surprised!!!!! Then you must believe in Jesus to go to heaven otherwise Muslims are going to hell. Let me quote Jesus for you now; [I]I said therefore unto you, that YE SHALL DIE IN YOUR SINS: for if ye believe not that I am he ye shall die in your sins.[I] Jonn 8:24 I don't judge Muslims, the Word of God does.

[phareztamar]

You are free to generate all the statistics you want. Satan's "greatest accomplishment" is the river of death that follows Christianity around the globe.

Pass the plate and gimme hallelujah on your way out.

Hallelujah

[Walks_in_islam]

OMG You quote from a Christian bible and you quoted Jesus for good measure? I am really surprised!!!!! Then you must believe in Jesus to go to heaven otherwise Muslims are going to hell. Let me quote Jesus for you now; [I]I said therefore unto you, that YE SHALL DIE IN YOUR SINS: for if ye believe not that I am he ye shall die in your sins.[I] Jonn 8:24 I don't judge Muslims, the Word of God does.

Thank you.

Same chapter: 28 So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29 The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.” 30 Even as he spoke, many believed in him.

Jesus is a highly regarded messenger in Islam. Every Muslim believes that.
You say "Son of God". Jesus says "Son of Man". See any difference? What Islam teaches about Jesus is what Jesus taught about Jesus.

[Walks_in_islam]

Hallelujah

Bye

[FlamingZword]

Jesus is a highly regarded messenger in Islam. Every Muslim believes that.

Jesus is not impressed by being called a messenger, you could even say that of the paperboy.

He is impressed when you call him my Lord and my God, like Thomas did.

[Walks_in_islam]

A summary of what impresses Jesus. Your little bit is missing. What's a jot here and a tittle there though?

1. Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2 “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.
3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,
4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.
6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.
8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
9 “This, then, is how you should pray: “‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10 your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.

14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

16 “When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show others they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.
17 But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face,
18 so that it will not be obvious to others that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.
20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.
21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

22 “The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy, your whole body will be full of light.
23 But if your eyes are unhealthy, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

24 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.


25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes?
26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?
27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life

28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these.
30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith?
31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’
32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them.
33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.
34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

I do not need to tell you (hopefully anyway) who JESUS prayed to.

99% of the discussion on this "Christian" forum involves exactly what Jesus tells you what NOT to do and as you go about your day you continually and consistently ignore the teachings of the one you supposedly follow. The only thing that doesn't apply to you is fasting because you don't fast but I will tell you that regular fasting, like prayer, is REQUIRED so it might be something you consider picking up.
With that in mind, who are you to define what Jesus would or would not be "impressed" with

[Walks_in_islam]

Jesus is not impressed by being called a messenger, you could even say that of the paperboy.

He is impressed when you call him my Lord and my God, like Thomas did.

Perhaps he disappointed himself when he referred to himself as a Prophet in Mark 6 and Luke 13. Islam refers to Jesus as a prophet. Jesus refers to Jesus as a Prophet. Wanna play double jeopardy and guess who refers to Jesus as a messenger? Why I have to be the one to read you your own bible like it's storytime at a daycare anyway? Too busy counting your coins or planning what to wear to church?

The only inconsistent description here is, well, yours. I bet you think you hold the keys to heaven and everyone who is not like you is going to hell though don't you.

Nice SN. I bet visions of "flaming swords" run through your dreams. War, blood, victory over everyone who is different from you or doesn't look like you or doesn't dress like you. This is why your communities are so much more violent than Muslim communities. "Onward Christian Soldiers, Marching As To War...."

[ludwig_v_m]

I guess I'm a bit of a weird guy because I come down on both sides in this conversation.

1. Violence is the way of the US (as in government - even Obama said that the government has a monopoly on force). All in the name of National Security.
2. That said, all who proclaim Christianity, probably aren't Christian. Just because a nutjob proclaims Christianity doesn't necessarily make Christians nutjobs - the same could be said of Muslims.

In the end, I fall into the camp that all governments, just as all religions, are nothing more than about control - by any means they deem necessary, whether by violence, abuse, fear, or whatever. Attempting to make another person do what "I feel is righteous".

The question we all have to ask ourselves is if I have the right, through aggression (whether through violence, abuse, fear or whatever), to force another to live as I require them to? And if you feel you do have that right, then we have nothing more to converse about.

I think if we would all cease attempting to judge others according to our own philosophies (both theological and political) then perhaps we could better come to a unified idea of what humanity, as a race, could be. But as long as we are killing one another in the name of any god or any politic, then we'll always have anger and hatred toward one another.

That said, if you wish to believe what your philosophy dictates (and, yes, your theology is philosophy) - then, by all means, do so. But the moment that you attempt to force it on another party - that is when you step into the mess that you have decided to create and the result of what that mess you decided to make creates is of your own making. Quit blaming someone else's philosophy for your own aggression.

But what do I know? I'm just a guy who tries to love all people, regardless of creed, color, or nationality.

[Walks_in_islam]

I guess I'm a bit of a weird guy because I come down on both sides in this conversation.

1. Violence is the way of the US (as in government - even Obama said that the government has a monopoly on force). All in the name of National Security.
2. That said, all who proclaim Christianity, probably aren't Christian. Just because a nutjob proclaims Christianity doesn't necessarily make Christians nutjobs - the same could be said of Muslims.

In the end, I fall into the camp that all governments, just as all religions, are nothing more than about control - by any means they deem necessary, whether by violence, abuse, fear, or whatever. Attempting to make another person do what "I feel is righteous".

The question we all have to ask ourselves is if I have the right, through aggression (whether through violence, abuse, fear or whatever), to force another to live as I require them to? And if you feel you do have that right, then we have nothing more to converse about.

I think if we would all cease attempting to judge others according to our own philosophies (both theological and political) then perhaps we could better come to a unified idea of what humanity, as a race, could be. But as long as we are killing one another in the name of any god or any politic, then we'll always have anger and hatred toward one another.

That said, if you wish to believe what your philosophy dictates (and, yes, your theology is philosophy) - then, by all means, do so. But the moment that you attempt to force it on another party - that is when you step into the mess that you have decided to create and the result of what that mess you decided to make creates is of your own making. Quit blaming someone else's philosophy for your own aggression.

But what do I know? I'm just a guy who tries to love all people, regardless of creed, color, or nationality.

Dunno where you are from but this is Texas sport. We don't get into each other's business and we don't interfere with each other's belief's down here. If you say one thing and do another it's fair to call you out on it though and that's exactly what junior up there (and sadly most of the rest of this lot on here) fairly earned.

You see aggression, or support of aggression, or calls for aggression from me just let me know. Right now we are comparing Christian-based societies and Islamic-based societies and you folks are coming in a lap behind on this "peace on earth" bunk you preach about in your pulpits.

[ludwig_v_m]

Dunno where you are from but this is Texas sport. We don't get into each other's business and we don't interfere with each other's belief's down here. If you say one thing and do another it's fair to call you out on it though and that's exactly what junior up there (and sadly most of the rest of this lot on here) fairly earned.

You see aggression, or support of aggression, or calls for aggression from me just let me know. Right now we are comparing Christian-based societies and Islamic-based societies and you folks are coming in a lap behind on this "peace on earth" bunk you preach about in your pulpits.

First. And take this being said in the nicest way possible. Don't call me "Sport" - it's rude and condescending; and I won't stand for it. Do it again, and I'll cease conversation with you because it'll show whether you actually want conversation or if you're just trying to push buttons.

Second. I'm just as Texas as you are maybe even moreso as I have a bit of Alabama Coushatta blood.

Third. I'm not one of "you folks". I actually believe in peace and I don't care to have adjectives added to it as peace is peace, regardless of adjective. And, frankly, I don't disagree with you about the aggression. I merely don't apply adjectives to it. Aggression is aggression, regardless of who initiates it.

Fourth. I have only a few rules that I live by. Always tell the truth, don't commit aggression against others (physical, mental, or spiritual), don't steal and leave people alone to their own devices.

All of that said, I guess maybe I should leave the conversation altogether because of the fact that I see peace as peace and aggression as aggression. I don't see it as [place favorite adjective here] aggression vs [place most hated adjective here] aggression. And that the solution isn't to label it but to find the catalyst for it and work together for a resolution.

The human race, as a whole, I believe is a capable group of accomplishing anything. We just have to realize that love for another human should supersede any adjective that is place upon that human. Utopian, I know, but I can only hope.

[Walks_in_islam]

First. Don't call me "Sport"
Second. I'm just as Texas as you are maybe even moreso
Third. I'm not one of "you folks".
Fourth. I have only a few rules that I live by. Always tell the truth, don't commit aggression against others (physical, mental, or spiritual), don't steal and leave people alone to their own devices.





1. Nod of respect to all of the above
2. Mild exception taken to #2 - LOL
3. In addition to #1 seems you are highly due an apology for that term "sport". Please accept mine.

[thephnxman]

seekerman[/B];1278918]They're valid points. He's right. There's lots wrong with the KJV bible, but to be fair there's lots wrong with the koran also.

If one would equate the Muslim faith with the Christian faith, then the points are valid. However, "...the natural man (the Muslim faith) receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned." They that will argue with Islam, are deceived, because there is no comparison to the doctrines of the Lord with their faith.

If we, as Christians, proclaim only the gospel and the doctrine of the apostles and prophets, we do well. Life will penetrate the soul of them that seek, even as many "...as should be saved."

[Dordrecht]

Muslims are going to hell

Every single person in hell knows Jesus is Lord.
There are no unbelievers in hell.
But it's to late.

[shazeep]

well, that is surely true...and, it is in the Qur'an :lol
Muslims are going to hellhmm. how do you know? do you have Scripture for this? I know finger-pointers are...

[shazeep]

If one would equate the Muslim faith with the Christian faith, then the points are valid. However, "...the natural man (the Muslim faith) receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned." They that will argue with Islam, are deceived, because there is no comparison to the doctrines of the Lord with their faith.

If we, as Christians, proclaim only the gospel and the doctrine of the apostles and prophets, we do well. Life will penetrate the soul of them that seek, even as many "...as should be saved."wadr, you equate a natural man with a practicing Muslim in ignorance. You do not know what you are talking about. You supposed men of God should be ashamed, and you make me ashamed that i must bear the label Christian beside you. Thankfully, it appears that God has about had enough of your ridiculous posturing, and i for one cannot wait to see how you bear up under Sharia Law. The Lord rebuke you.

The title of the thread says it all: "Islam VERSUS Christianity" which of course is more properly put the other way around, but it is fitting like it is, as "clueless" and "Christian" seem to pretty much go together. Aquila, wth? Gee, i wonder why we have so many fags and atheists. gag.

[BrotherEastman]

well, that is surely true...and, it is in the Qur'an :lol
hmm. how do you know? do you have Scripture for this? I know finger-pointers are...

Since you are devoid of scriptural knowledge then I shall point it out for you. Read John 8:24, I didn't judge him, Jesus did. I just went by what Jesus had said. Muslims do not believe that Jesus is God so they shall DIE IN THEIR SINS. How do you like that for an answer Shazeep???? No finger pointing here.:throwrock

[shazeep]

wadr BE, you do not have a clue what most Muslims believe, or where or what hell even is, for that matter, and Christ could care less if you know the correct words to say or not, if you cannot live them, as i have witnessed the vast majority of practicing Muslims to be doing. Telling anyone they are going to hell is simply ignorant hate mongering. You have been indoctrinated, in the truest sense of the word, when you imagine that you are qualified to judge who is 'going' where. If what you have passes for Scriptural knowledge, Lord, please keep me ignorant. Got a doctorate, do ya? Well doc, i hate to break it to you, but the Qur'an agrees with your quoted verse--at least before you twisted it--however, Muslims don't go around trumpeting it, like some Pharisee, but rather mostly just quietly go around practicing it. I trust that i am as big a hypocrite as anyone, but you are way out of line here, sorry.

ps, pretty ironic, the passage you chose to quote: let's back it up a little--being as how i'm so ignorant--to get the full lesson;

"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."
"Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man."
"I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me." (2 persons here, note)
"Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning." (ps, not "the Father")
"I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.
27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father." (hmm, who does this sound more like? you, or Muslims?)
"I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things."
and the passage still is not finished differentiating Father and Son; but we'll move on, to the really ironic stuff, which sadly recalls Muslims to me before Christians, God help us:
"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

Now no doubt since the passage says "Jews" you figger it doesn't apply here, but i will leave that judgement to future readers.Try again, BE, or better yet, man up; no one is perfect.

yikes, this chapter is practically a Muslim manifesto lol

"They answered him, We be Abraham's seed..."
"Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin."
"Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham."
"Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me."

So, you have not even established that Jesus is God with this rather unfortunate choice of passages, much less that somehow Muslims are going to hell. Shall i quote to you from the Second Sur'ah? But no--that would be ignorant. Have a nice day.

"Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word."

[shazeep]

you are forgiven, BE, but you might ponder that Establishments such as those that you are now central to--which btw is demonstrably in the "decadence" stage--inevitably (as in "always," no exceptions) fall to the oppressed right after the decadence stage; and, these posts do not go away. Even if/when AFF discontinues.

and, you might at least look into the possibility that Christ has been (vastly) misrepresented to you--distorted in every way possible--so that you might (satan hopes) contend with every other believer on the planet, including many Christians.

I note that this thread began with a different premise--if an unfortunate title--and wonder if the ptb @ AFF even realize the slur to their site here.

Ludwig, sorry if these heathen chased you away, and don't blame you for running; i am not coming back either.

[BrotherEastman]

wadr BE, you do not have a clue what most Muslims believe, or where or what hell even is, for that matter, and Christ could care less if you know the correct words to say or not, if you cannot live them, as i have witnessed the vast majority of practicing Muslims to be doing. Telling anyone they are going to hell is simply ignorant hate mongering. You have been indoctrinated, in the truest sense of the word, when you imagine that you are qualified to judge who is 'going' where. If what you have passes for Scriptural knowledge, Lord, please keep me ignorant. Got a doctorate, do ya? Well doc, i hate to break it to you, but the Qur'an agrees with your quoted verse--at least before you twisted it--however, Muslims don't go around trumpeting it, like some Pharisee, but rather mostly just quietly go around practicing it. I trust that i am as big a hypocrite as anyone, but you are way out of line here, sorry.

ps, pretty ironic, the passage you chose to quote: let's back it up a little--being as how i'm so ignorant--to get the full lesson;

"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."
"Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man."
"I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me." (2 persons here, note)
"Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning." (ps, not "the Father")
"I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.
27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father." (hmm, who does this sound more like? you, or Muslims?)
"I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things."
and the passage still is not finished differentiating Father and Son; but we'll move on, to the really ironic stuff, which sadly recalls Muslims to me before Christians, God help us:
"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

Now no doubt since the passage says "Jews" you figger it doesn't apply here, but i will leave that judgement to future readers.Try again, BE, or better yet, man up; no one is perfect.

yikes, this chapter is practically a Muslim manifesto lol

"They answered him, We be Abraham's seed..."
"Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin."
"Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham."
"Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me."

So, you have not even established that Jesus is God with this rather unfortunate choice of passages, much less that somehow Muslims are going to hell. Shall i quote to you from the Second Sur'ah? But no--that would be ignorant. Have a nice day.

"Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word."

Figures, I point out a scripture and you cry FOUL as if though I am the one judging. Is the word of God to harsh for you? You know as well as I that Muslims do not believe that Jesus is God nor is He the messiah.

As far as quoting Surah, I could care less since I do not consider the Quran the word of God, but the word of a foolish so called prophet. Don't get mad at me for quoting the real word of God from Christ himself. I apologize if it offends you; however, I cannot apologize for what is in the word of God.

You either believe that Jesus is God, or you don't. I can't help what John 8:24 said quoted no less than by our savior Himself. Be mad at me if you want, curse me if you want, say I am going to hell for judging if you want, but God's word will never pass away. BTW, Muslims do not believe in a trinity either.

[shazeep]

Figures, I point out a scripture and you cry FOUL as if though I am the one judging. Is the word of God to harsh for you? You know as well as I that Muslims do not believe that Jesus is God nor is He the messiah.

As far as quoting Surah, I could care less since I do not consider the Quran the word of God, but the word of a foolish so called prophet. Don't get mad at me for quoting the real word of God from Christ himself. I apologize if it offends you; however, I cannot apologize for what is in the word of God.

You either believe that Jesus is God, or you don't. I can't help what John 8:24 said quoted no less than by our savior Himself. Be mad at me if you want, curse me if you want, say I am going to hell for judging if you want, but God's word will never pass away. BTW, Muslims do not believe in a trinity either.

You are in fact the one judging, although i am not surprised that you could not grasp that from the passage you yourself quoted; nor that this is not really about you, your favorite subject. Is the Word of God too harsh for you? I myself understand that Christ never proclaimed that He was God, but that many certain "patriots" must desperately glom on to the Kingdom in an attempt to justify their evil actions, and so twist "I and the Father are one" to their own ends. I am not mad at you, who are in fact the one acting the complete fool. You say you cannot help what John said, when in fact you cannot even comprehend what he said. "Trinity" is a word made up by your handlers, that you just swallowed hooklinesinker.

See that
"Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word"
fits you perfectly. good day to you.

[BrotherEastman]

you are forgiven, BE, but you might ponder that Establishments such as those that you are now central to--which btw is demonstrably in the "decadence" stage--inevitably (as in "always," no exceptions) fall to the oppressed right after the decadence stage; and, these posts do not go away. Even if/when AFF discontinues.

and, you might at least look into the possibility that Christ has been (vastly) misrepresented to you--distorted in every way possible--so that you might (satan hopes) contend with every other believer on the planet, including many Christians.

I note that this thread began with a different premise--if an unfortunate title--and wonder if the ptb @ AFF even realize the slur to their site here.

Ludwig, sorry if these heathen chased you away, and don't blame you for running; i am not coming back either.

LOL....heathen did you say? Even the Qur'an which I think you respect calls Christians and Jews INFIDELS. If you are a Christian, then I think Muslims have judged you according to the Qur'an which I think you rebuked me over. I guess it is alright for the Qur'an to judge you, but when Jesus does it, it becomes reprehensible to you?????? That to me makes absolutely no sense!!!! If you leave aff because of me, then you are easily offended. God bless you and I hope you well in Christ Jesus our Lord..............I really mean that.

[BrotherEastman]

you are the one judging, although i am not surprised that you could not grasp that from the passage you yourself quoted. Is the Word of God too harsh for you? I myself understand that Christ never proclaimed that He was God, but that many certain "patriots" must desperately glom on to the Kingdom in an attempt to justify their evil actions, and so twist "I and the Father are one" to their own ends. I am not mad at you, who are in fact the one acting the complete fool. You say you cannot help what John said, when in fact you cannot even comprehend what he said. The last Scripture quoted in my last post fits you perfectly; but surely you are above all that :lol good day to you.

:blah:blah:blah, and good day to you as well. I thought you were leaving?

[shazeep]

LOL....heathen did you say? Even the Qur'an which I think you respect calls Christians and Jews INFIDELS.also incorrect, gee surprise. The Qur'an calls us brethren, if we adhere to the Word; this does exclude you, however.



If you are a Christian, then I think Muslims have judged you according to the Qur'an which I think you rebuked me over. I guess it is alright for the Qur'an to judge you, but when Jesus does it, it becomes reprehensible to you?????? That to me makes absolutely no sense!!!! If you leave aff because of me, then you are easily offended. God bless you and I hope you well in Christ Jesus our Lord..............I really mean that.
i meant i was leaving this thread, because yes i find you detestable, at least when spouting yack like this. I have already quoted your own choice of passages back at you, proclaiming that Christ Himself said that He and God do not judge--that is reserved for satan and you, his son. Your blessing is a curse, of course, and reads as such. Being as you so obviously have no idea what you mean, you might best go slink off back to that rock you live under; maybe go attend another KKK meeting--surely they are held very near you--so you can thump your chest some more. Or by all means, reply to this as well, and show us some more how irretrievably ignorant you are.

[shazeep]

since you enjoy talking about yourself so much.

[shazeep]

the sad part is that there is supposedly Admin here, and you should have been censored many posts back. You do not represent Christians very well with this, BE, although i don't seem to be doing much better. But at least i will not be taken by surprise at what is coming.

[BrotherEastman]

the sad part is that there is supposedly Admin here, and you should have been censored many posts back. You do not represent Christians very well with this, BE, although i don't seem to be doing much better. But at least i will not be taken by surprise at what is coming.

why don't you report my posts to admin then? you can do that can't you?

[shazeep]

i'm not interested, Mr Eastman; and i only wished to address the post, "Muslims are going to hell"--which speaks for itself--and not you. It surely is not ever fun being admonished, and sorry if i did a poor job.

[BrotherEastman]

i'm not interested, Mr Eastman; and i only wished to address the post, "Muslims are going to hell"--which speaks for itself--and not you. It surely is not ever fun being admonished, and sorry if i did a poor job.

Here are quotes from the beloved Qur'an.



Now, let us have a closer look at what the Koran says about the infidels:-

Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them(2:191)
Make war on the infidels living in your neighboorhood (9:123)
When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you catch them (9:5)
Kill the Jews and the Christians if they do not convert to Islam or refuse to pay Jizya tax (9:29)
Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable (3:85)
The Jews and the Christians are perverts; fight them (9:30)
Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticise Islam. (5:33)
The infidels are unclean; do not let them into a mosque (9:28)
Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods, boiling water; melt their skin and bellies
(22:19)
Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them (47:4)
The unbelievers are stupid; urge the Muslims to fight them (8:65)
Muslims must not take the infidels as friends (3:28)
Terrorise and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Qur’an (8:12)
Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorise the infidels (8:60)

The Qur’an certainly proclaims that when the time is appropriate, Muslims must use force to convert the unbelievers to Islam. For the non-Muslims, the alternative to this is to pay the humiliating protection money (Jizya tax) or be killed (by beheading, of course). A militarily dominant Islam, without doubt, precludes the peaceful co-existence with the unbelievers if the Muslims have to abide strictly by the unalterable stipulations of the Qur’an.

So much for your admonishing me. I know a little of what Muslims teach and that little is enough for me to say without a doubt that Muslims are heading towards hell. Mind you, I love Muslims; however, there really isn't any hope for them unless they are baptized in Jesus name (or do I also have to give MORE scripture for that?). You are diluted from the truth my friend.

[Dordrecht]

It's Biblical that muslims go to hell.
They reject Jesus Christ being the saviour.
Jesus said "I am the way, there is no other way".

So there you have it: According to the bible they are in the same group as all other hell bound cults.

Since this is a "Christian Forum" I should be able to post the truth.

End of story.

[shazeep]

Gee, what a surprise, Dordt is here. Well Dordt, you also do not have a clue what most Muslims believe, but are quick to reveal that you have no grasp of the faith--merely some redneck religion, along with your Bro up there. It's Biblical that you both go to hell in this case, as well--and I'll use Mr Eastman's own verses for the 'proof' you guys all so desperately seem to seek--but of course, that chapter applies to everyone else, huh. End of story.

[BrotherEastman]

It's Biblical that muslims go to hell.
They reject Jesus Christ being the saviour.
Jesus said "I am the way, there is no other way".

So there you have it: According to the bible they are in the same group as all other hell bound cults.

Since this is a "Christian Forum" I should be able to post the truth.

End of story.

Could it really be? :highfive I'll give you an amen Brother.

[BrotherEastman]

Gee, what a surprise, Dordt is here. Well Dordt, you also do not have a clue what most Muslims believe, but are quick to reveal that you have no grasp of the faith--merely some redneck religion, along with your Bro up there. It's Biblical that you both go to hell in this case, as well--and I'll use Mr Eastman's own verses for the 'proof' you guys all so desperately seem to seek--but of course, that chapter applies to everyone else, huh. End of story.

I just posted what Muslims believe, are you blind?

[shazeep]

Wadr, you only posted what you imagine Muslims believe; and I don't claim that i could do any better. I'm over it, guys--it takes all kinds to make a world; but you might consider that you seem to have an inbred, hateful dogma, if you feel you are justified in making blanket statements about entire populations going to hell--this strikes me as the height of hypocrisy. Just sayin'.

[BrotherEastman]

Wadr, you only posted what you imagine Muslims believe; and I don't claim that i could do any better. I'm over it, guys--it takes all kinds to make a world; but you might consider that you seem to have an inbred, hateful dogma, if you feel you are justified in making blanket statements about entire populations going to hell--this strikes me as the height of hypocrisy. Just sayin'.

I only posted what Muslims might believe????????? You are funny, I just gave you direct quotes from their Qur'an. Don't worry you are just like the next guy, you only see what you want to see. Not to worry, I guess we are all that way.

[shazeep]

ha yup; "Thank you, God, that i am like the rest of men."
Neither would it be fair to pull something from Scripture out of context to judge you upon.

[BrotherEastman]

ha yup; "Thank you, God, that i am like the rest of men."
Neither would it be fair to pull something from Scripture out of context to judge you upon.

I didn't put anything out of context, that is just your ignorant opinion which was like I said you aren't any different than anyone else. You're an antagonist.

[shazeep]

Well, thankfully, God judges one's heart, and not so much one's dogma, i guess.
Have a nice evening, Mr. Eastman, Dordrecht, you too.

[Dordrecht]

...you seem to have an inbred, hateful dogma...

…same old classic response, as usual.

This comes to mind: "Get behind me, satan".

( I guess according to you another hateful bible quote?)

I shall leave this place and might check again, as usual, in a couple of weeks.

:-)

[BrotherEastman]

Well, thankfully, God judges one's heart, and not so much one's dogma, i guess.
Have a nice evening, Mr. Eastman, Dordrecht, you too.

Doesn't mean anything, but okay I'll let you have the last word even though you said you'd quit posting. lol

[shazeep]

ha, and to me it means the world, Mr Eastman. You condemn just shy of 2,000,000,000 people to hell based upon it. and there is no theoretic bottom to this thread either...but it would be nice, sigh, i guess, if you guys spent more time discussing where you might actually come to some agreements with some Muslims, rather than this pornographic slurring of another's dogma which, after all, is universally acknowledged by all of the respective masters of those dogmas to fall short of the actual Spirit, which must be put into practice.

Muslims are not your enemies, Mr Eastman, although you may motivate them to be so. It would kill you to maybe turn off Fox News for a night, and go to whatever passes for high prayer among some local Muslims, in the spirit of "Oneness?" yes or no? make some fruit of this :lol

[BrotherEastman]

ha, and to me it means the world, Mr Eastman. You condemn just shy of 2,000,000,000 people to hell based upon it. and there is no theoretic bottom to this thread either...but it would be nice, sigh, i guess, if you guys spent more time discussing where you might actually come to some agreements with some Muslims, rather than this pornographic slurring of another's dogma which, after all, is universally acknowledged by all of the respective masters of those dogmas to fall short of the actual Spirit, which must be put into practice.

Muslims are not your enemies, Mr Eastman, although you may motivate them to be so. It would kill you to maybe turn off Fox News for a night, and go to whatever passes for high prayer among some local Muslims, in the spirit of "Oneness?" yes or no? make some fruit of this :lol

No Muslims are not my enemies; however the Qur'an disallows them (Muslims) to befriend Christians and Jews (see the post where I quoted the Qur'an) and that includes me. Do you also argue with what the Muslims think about me???? If we do not have the Spirit of Christ we are none of His, read Romans 8:9. How many Muslims do you know have the Spirit of Christ????? They are NOT Christians and believe that Christians are infidels (again, see the post I quoted from the Qur'an). They do not have the Spirit of Christ because they are violent against anyone who does not believe what they do. Someone here pointed out that the Anti-Christ will be a Muslim, although I don't necessarily agree with that, I can neither discount it either. The Bible judges them, I just go by what the Bible says. Muslims are going to hell unless they turn to Christ. You don't have to like it, but I do not apologize for what scripture plainly says about unbelievers (Muslims).

[BrotherEastman]

Here are quotes from the beloved Qur'an.



Now, let us have a closer look at what the Koran says about the infidels:-

Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them(2:191)
Make war on the infidels living in your neighboorhood (9:123)
When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you catch them (9:5)
Kill the Jews and the Christians if they do not convert to Islam or refuse to pay Jizya tax (9:29)
Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable (3:85)
The Jews and the Christians are perverts; fight them (9:30)
Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticise Islam. (5:33)
The infidels are unclean; do not let them into a mosque (9:28)
Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods, boiling water; melt their skin and bellies
(22:19)
Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them (47:4)
The unbelievers are stupid; urge the Muslims to fight them (8:65)
Muslims must not take the infidels as friends (3:28)
Terrorise and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Qur’an (8:12)
Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorise the infidels (8:60)

The Qur’an certainly proclaims that when the time is appropriate, Muslims must use force to convert the unbelievers to Islam. For the non-Muslims, the alternative to this is to pay the humiliating protection money (Jizya tax) or be killed (by beheading, of course). A militarily dominant Islam, without doubt, precludes the peaceful co-existence with the unbelievers if the Muslims have to abide strictly by the unalterable stipulations of the Qur’an.

So much for your admonishing me. I know a little of what Muslims teach and that little is enough for me to say without a doubt that Muslims are heading towards hell. Mind you, I love Muslims; however, there really isn't any hope for them unless they are baptized in Jesus name (or do I also have to give MORE scripture for that?). You are diluted from the truth my friend.

Bump for shazeep!!!!!!!

[shazeep]

Rom 14:10 But why do you judge your brother? Or also why do you despise your brother? For all shall stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

[BrotherEastman]

Rom 14:10 But why do you judge your brother? Or also why do you despise your brother? For all shall stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Muslims aren't my brothers, Romans was written to Christians. You obviously aren't reading my posts.

[shazeep]

Of course not, wadr. When you posted "Muslims are going to hell" you revealed your premises, and thus who your father is. Sorry for this, but Mr Eastman, we all become aware at some point that Scripture may be used to "prove" anything; and i have seen that it is what people desire to authenticate that reveals them, and their hearts. Want some Scripture for that? :lol

But we are on a forum, and argue concepts. I'm sure that you are considered loving by many friends and family (um, but don't even the heathen do this?), and i don't wish to judge you, or be put in the position of judging you.

You seem convinced that satan is not your enemy, Muslims are (and that you are qualified to judge...them, and by extension, me); and i likewise am fairly convinced that any Muslim who follows the Qur'an--regardless of the cultural divide we face in reading It, since after all we do not defend our faith with the verses in Psalms that suggest we bash babies heads in, etc--is my brother.

So it seems best if perhaps we retire to other subjects, as i would prefer, if at all possible, to seek where we agree. Peace to you.

[Walks_in_islam]

Bump for shazeep!!!!!!!

Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them(2:191). This is what the Quran says?

Bump to you.

2:139 Say, [O Muhammad], "Do you argue with us about Allah while He is our Lord and your Lord? For us are our deeds, and for you are your deeds. And we are sincere to Him."

Your passage in context

190: Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.
191: And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.
192: And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
193: Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . [I][U]But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors.

Sounds a little bit different in context doesn't it?

Unless you are deliberately lying (or did not look) then include context then judge what you read. Which part of this passage calls for a Muslim to initiate aggression towards others?

[Praxeas]

Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them(2:191). This is what the Quran says?

Bump to you.

2:139 Say, [O Muhammad], "Do you argue with us about Allah while He is our Lord and your Lord? For us are our deeds, and for you are your deeds. And we are sincere to Him."

Your passage in context

190: Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.
191: And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.
192: And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
193: Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . [I][U]But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors.

Sounds a little bit different in context doesn't it?

Unless you are deliberately lying (or did not look) then include context then judge what you read. Which part of this passage calls for a Muslim to initiate aggression towards others?
Maybe he was reading from a different translation.

[Walks_in_islam]

Maybe he was reading from a different translation.

It's easy to come back and clarify isn't it? Maybe he can include the context from that translation.

The two lines say the same thing. Do you really believe that his translation will provide a different context than mine?

[BrotherEastman]

Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them(2:191). This is what the Quran says?

Bump to you.

2:139 Say, [O Muhammad], "Do you argue with us about Allah while He is our Lord and your Lord? For us are our deeds, and for you are your deeds. And we are sincere to Him."

Your passage in context

190: Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.
191: And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.
192: And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
193: Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . [I][U]But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors.

Sounds a little bit different in context doesn't it?

Unless you are deliberately lying (or did not look) then include context then judge what you read. Which part of this passage calls for a Muslim to initiate aggression towards others?

If I sent you a friends request would you accept it? Are you allowed to befriend me?.............






















I didn't think so, I doubt you have Christian friends, and if you do then you are a hypocrite. Maybe you could put those other passages in context as well?

[BrotherEastman]

It's easy to come back and clarify isn't it? Maybe he can include the context from that translation.

The two lines say the same thing. Do you really believe that his translation will provide a different context than mine?

Well, if I could take a line out of context I wonder how many Muslims do the same??????

[BrotherEastman]

Of course not, wadr. When you posted "Muslims are going to hell" you revealed your premises, and thus who your father is. Sorry for this, but Mr Eastman, we all become aware at some point that Scripture may be used to "prove" anything; and i have seen that it is what people desire to authenticate that reveals them, and their hearts. Want some Scripture for that? :lol

But we are on a forum, and argue concepts. I'm sure that you are considered loving by many friends and family (um, but don't even the heathen do this?), and i don't wish to judge you, or be put in the position of judging you.

You seem convinced that satan is not your enemy, Muslims are (and that you are qualified to judge...them, and by extension, me); and i likewise am fairly convinced that any Muslim who follows the Qur'an--regardless of the cultural divide we face in reading It, since after all we do not defend our faith with the verses in Psalms that suggest we bash babies heads in, etc--is my brother.

So it seems best if perhaps we retire to other subjects, as i would prefer, if at all possible, to seek where we agree. Peace to you.

Then do not expect me to afford you the same respect.

[phareztamar]

Of course not, wadr. When you posted "Muslims are going to hell" you revealed your premises, and thus who your father is. Sorry for this, but Mr Eastman, we all become aware at some point that Scripture may be used to "prove" anything; and i have seen that it is what people desire to authenticate that reveals them, and their hearts. Want some Scripture for that? :lol

But we are on a forum, and argue concepts. I'm sure that you are considered loving by many friends and family (um, but don't even the heathen do this?), and i don't wish to judge you, or be put in the position of judging you.

You seem convinced that satan is not your enemy, Muslims are (and that you are qualified to judge...them, and by extension, me); and i likewise am fairly convinced that any Muslim who follows the Qur'an--regardless of the cultural divide we face in reading It, since after all we do not defend our faith with the verses in Psalms that suggest we bash babies heads in, etc--is my brother.

So it seems best if perhaps we retire to other subjects, as i would prefer, if at all possible, to seek where we agree. Peace to you.

Shazeep,
Let me go on record that I personally do not judge you. The words that my Lord has spoken...they will judge both you and I.

But I also go on record that Islam is far and away Satan's greatest achievement since my Lord's glorification. It is contrary to the Word of God. I beseech you to read His Word, for only therein are the words of eternal life.

[Walks_in_islam]

If I sent you a friends request would you accept it? Are you allowed to befriend me?.............


















I didn't think so, I doubt you have Christian friends, and if you do then you are a hypocrite. Maybe you could put those other passages in context as well?

<grin>Nice guess. Fail. Epic one.

My pawpaw was an East Texas Klansman. I have a LOT of Christian friends.

I declare them all as out of context. However as you are the one who deceptively posted out of context Surah from the Quran claiming it means or says one thing when it actually says something completely different that makes it your lie and your mess for you to own and fix. Or not. I don't care.

A deceiver only needs to be exposed once. If you will deceive in little things you will deceive in big ones.

Surah 9 begins with:

1. "[This is a declaration of] disassociation, from Allah and His Messenger, to those with whom you had made a treaty among the polytheists."

This has nothing to do with anything today. That's the second one (and a couple of others) from your list.

[Walks_in_islam]

Well, if I could take a line out of context I wonder how many Muslims do the same??????

There is no excuse given in the Quran for those who do not read and follow what it says and those who do not really aren't true Muslims are they

[BrotherEastman]

<grin>Nice guess. Fail. Epic one.

My pawpaw was an East Texas Klansman. I have a LOT of Christian friends.

I declare them all as out of context. However as you are the one who deceptively posted out of context Surah from the Quran claiming it means or says one thing when it actually says something completely different that makes it your lie and your mess for you to own and fix. Or not. I don't care.

A deceiver only needs to be exposed once. If you will deceive in little things you will deceive in big ones.

Surah 9 begins with:

1. "[This is a declaration of] disassociation, from Allah and His Messenger, to those with whom you had made a treaty among the polytheists."

This has nothing to do with anything today. That's the second one (and a couple of others) from your list.

Is it my lie to fix??????? Really???? You are on here for what purpose then? Are you not a Muslim that would want to clarify things so that others do not make the mistake of taking your Qur'an out of context; or would you rather we believe that your faith is misguided?????? It's up to you as a Muslim to clarify; otherwise what I said maybe wasn't taken out of context for the readers to read after all. There are a lot of misguided Muslims taking what I said as a lie, don't you want to fix that?

[BrotherEastman]

By the way, my Grandfather was a Klansman as well.

[Praxeas]

It's easy to come back and clarify isn't it? Maybe he can include the context from that translation.

The two lines say the same thing. Do you really believe that his translation will provide a different context than mine?
I think he was reading from the Mullah Jihadi Version :heeheehee

[BrotherEastman]

I think he was reading from the Mullah Jihadi Version :heeheehee

Prax, be frank with me, have you read the Qur'an?

[shazeep]

It is a perfect Book, even in translation, Mr Eastman--it is a mirror. You saw in it just exactly what your heart told you to see. I read life and acceptance in it--you apparently read death and rejection. It is what it is--which, btw, is mostly "pointless" to us, as--admit it--"Muslims" or "Islam" is just a "news" word to you; you don't know any, and virtually never interact with any Muslims. You would not even know they existed if they were not misrepresented on Fox News every night. You have been programmed, Mr. Eastman, et al. We all have, God help us.Shazeep,
Let me go on record that I personally do not judge you. The words that my Lord has spoken...they will judge both you and I.

But I also go on record that Islam is far and away Satan's greatest achievement since my Lord's glorification. It is contrary to the Word of God. I beseech you to read His Word, for only therein are the words of eternal life.
beseech away; i know the Bible by heart. All of it. I also know most of the Qur'an, and the Tao. haven't gotten around to the Upanishads yet... :lol mostly because somewhere along the way I recognized that all of those volumes, Scripture included, advised me that too much study was bad, and the form is unimportant. One could even say irrelevant, if the seeker does not grasp that "there was a vineyard owner who had two sons"...to state it in terms familiar to you.

Although you may not know this--until it is too late--we have been programmed to hate Muslims--just as they are being programmed to hate us--and satan would not use Islam against you if it did not suit his purpose of twisting good into bad. I guess our cops are now also on the menu...fear and hate is the agenda, if you will but buy it--i do not.

Many Muslims call me friend, and brother; and i them.

Ok and wadr, "my Lord" is an exclusive way to refer to Christ, or God, tho I'm sure you mean no offense; you might grant that it is "our Lord," if only for convention's sake.
If I sent you a friends request would you accept it? Are you allowed to befriend me?.............

I didn't think so, I doubt you have Christian friends, and if you do then you are a hypocrite. Maybe you could put those other passages in context as well?
yes, Mr Eastman, i have many Muslim brothers. In Christ. Just as you surely are not your dogma, they are not their dogma. WII is of course constrained from befriending you, as you have plainly declared yourself his--and unfortunately my--enemy. If you insist upon the letter of the Law, i can read some of the pertinent Psalms to you...but as i said, you are forgiven, as i hope to be.

[BrotherEastman]

shazeep, if you are talking to me then you should know that i have you on ignore until you can respect me enough to read my posts, you said yourself that you haven't and until you do, you will be on ignore so I will not know what you are saying until you can at least respect me enough to read me. After all, why should I acknowledge anything you write. God bless you, I really mean that.

[shazeep]

um, that makes about as much sense as this one? either you have me on ignore, or you don't. pick one. And respect you? Surely you are kidding--you have no self respect; why should i respect you?
Then do not expect me to afford you the same respect.especially in light of the fact that you have called me several names, "diluted," etc. So to suggest that some respect for me--let alone yourself--might be forthcoming--um, or not, you're saying?--is kind of moot.

No, i do not respect you, and cannot listen to you. Listen to me. You are an accuser. You have condemned -2BILLION people to hell, where God, and Christ, plainly have not. I would help them track you down, frankly. Good day, hater.

[Walks_in_islam]

Is it my lie to fix??????? Really???? You are on here for what purpose then? Are you not a Muslim that would want to clarify things so that others do not make the mistake of taking your Qur'an out of context; or would you rather we believe that your faith is misguided?????? It's up to you as a Muslim to clarify; otherwise what I said maybe wasn't taken out of context for the readers to read after all. There are a lot of misguided Muslims taking what I said as a lie, don't you want to fix that?

Uh huh it is yours to fix. It is my duty to example your words against what actually is said and I did so. The Quran is pretty straightforward and it is not difficult to understand. If you do not agree with it then it is quite easy to take the parts and pieces and explain why in the context of your own beliefs.

What you did above however was a little bit misleading. I do not believe you did it deliberately or I would have systematically sliced your post to pieces. I believe you copied and pasted those phrases from somewhere else without really checking what you were doing or where they actually came from or what they actually said or what they meant. Was I wrong about that?

[Walks_in_islam]

I think he was reading from the Mullah Jihadi Version :heeheehee

Nah he pasted it off of a "the Muslims are coming" website. Can't judge that really. I do it to y'all too.

[BrotherEastman]

Uh huh it is yours to fix. It is my duty to example your words against what actually is said and I did so. The Quran is pretty straightforward and it is not difficult to understand. If you do not agree with it then it is quite easy to take the parts and pieces and explain why in the context of your own beliefs.

What you did above however was a little bit misleading. I do not believe you did it deliberately or I would have systematically sliced your post to pieces. I believe you copied and pasted those phrases from somewhere else without really checking what you were doing or where they actually came from or what they actually said or what they meant. Was I wrong about that?

Those quotes were copied and pasted.

[FlamingZword]

[QUOTE=Walks_in_islam;1346486]The Quran is pretty straightforward and it is not difficult to understand. [QUOTE]

No its not, just a bunch of nonsense put together, just the rantings of a mad man, inspired by Satan. makes great toilet paper.

[shazeep]

Um, scoffing in ignorance is just naive, wadr. It is supposedly just the OT rephrased--and pretty much has the same flavor--so what is the point there.

[Walks_in_islam]

[QUOTE=FlamingZword;1346742

....just the rantings of a mad man, inspired by Satan. makes great toilet paper...

[/QUOTE]

Irony in its highest form.

OK thanks. I'll print your post out and save it for later.