Has anyone attended an Apostolic College?

[Disciple4life]

Has anyone attended an Apostolic College?
I would love to learn Greek so that I could have a better understanding of the bible. Plus I love talking about God's word.

What things did you learn that were helpful?
What things were thrown in there that you thought could have been left out?

[Praxeas]

Has anyone attended an Apostolic College?
I would love to learn Greek so that I could have a better understanding of the bible. Plus I love talking about God's word.

What things did you learn that were helpful?
What things were thrown in there that you thought could have been left out?
Obviously it does not have to be Apostolic to learn Greek, but you can learn greek on your own

[Disciple4life]

That was kind of a side point. Sure I could. But like everything if you have to show up at a certain time with finished assignments you are more likely to accomplish your goal.

[Esaias]

http://www.teknia.com/classes

[Michael The Disciple]

I would not recommend Bible College. You could pay to learn about Oneness and Acts 2:38. However anything you can learn on those subjects is available for free on the internet. Anything else they would teach (foundation wise) would probably be wrong.

In short big money to be taught error.

[n david]

I would not recommend Bible College. You could pay to learn about Oneness and Acts 2:38. However anything you can learn on those subjects is available for free on the internet. Anything else they would teach (foundation wise) would probably be wrong.

In short big money to be taught error.
Which one did you go to?

[Michael The Disciple]

Which one did you go to?

I never said I did. I said I would not recommend anyone doing it.

[Praxeas]

I would not recommend Bible College. You could pay to learn about Oneness and Acts 2:38. However anything you can learn on those subjects is available for free on the internet. Anything else they would teach (foundation wise) would probably be wrong.

In short big money to be taught error.
Why would anyone go to College to learn about Oneness and Acts 2:38?

[RandyWayne]

We all know the reason MOST attend Bible college is to find their future spouse.

Might I suggest eharmony.com if you want to save a whole lot of $$$?

[Michael The Disciple]

Why would anyone go to College to learn about Oneness and Acts 2:38?

Why should they go period? You should be able to learn Bible truth at your Church. Any foundation doctrine can be studied on the internet. Any of the Bible can be studied in the Bible itself.

Why should someone relocate and pay money when they don't need to?

And as to Oneness and Acts 2:38 my point was that's probably the only thing an Apostolic Bible College would teach and be accurate.

[StillStanding]

I attended a bible college back in the day. I attended for a few reasons.

1. Learn how to become a church music director
2. Get away from home - independence
3. Focus on education
4. Possibly find a mate with similar beliefs and background. (Didn't happen!)

[Lafon]

Why should one that has received the baptism of the Holy Ghost attend an institution created by imperfect man when they possess the best Teacher one could possibly seek residing within them 24/7; One who promises to teach them ALL things, yes, even give them knowledge of things that are to come in the future?

Did not Christ Jesus say?

"... I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." (John 14:17-18)

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you." (John 16:13-14)

Is there a man-made educational institution anywhere that is able to achieve what Jesus tells us the Spirit of truth is able to do? I know of none.

[n david]

Has anyone attended an Apostolic College?
I would love to learn Greek so that I could have a better understanding of the bible. Plus I love talking about God's word.

What things did you learn that were helpful?
What things were thrown in there that you thought could have been left out?
If you just want to learn Greek, there are other ways to do so besides attending Bible School.

Why should they go period? You should be able to learn Bible truth at your Church. Any foundation doctrine can be studied on the internet. Any of the Bible can be studied in the Bible itself. Why should someone relocate and pay money when they don't need to?
This is true, but most go to a Bible School for other reasons than just the education. This is what you and Lafon don't understand. Bible School is more than just an education; it's an experience. It's meeting fellow believers, becoming involved in other ministries and opportunities, building confidence in ministry which can't be done at home or local church. Now, can you learn in your own home or church? Absolutely! But you won't gain the experiences you will at a Bible School

And as to Oneness and Acts 2:38 my point was that's probably the only thing an Apostolic Bible College would teach and be accurate.
That's really inaccurate. Sure, depending on which organization the school is a part, there may be some courses that are lacking, but they are very few.

Why should one that has received the baptism of the Holy Ghost attend an institution created by imperfect man when they possess the best Teacher one could possibly seek residing within them 24/7; One who promises to teach them ALL things, yes, even give them knowledge of things that are to come in the future?

Is there a man-made educational institution anywhere that is able to achieve what Jesus tells us the Spirit of truth is able to do? I know of none.
Again, completely missing the point.

Here's the deal. If you're simply wanting to learn some Biblical foundations or learn Greek/Hebrew, etc - you can do that without attending a Bible School. If, however, you have a heart for ministry and you want to be a Pastor or Evangelist or even a Teacher or Music minister - definitely consider it. Not just because of the education, but because of what I mentioned above...meeting, making contacts, developing confidence in whatever ministry God has blessed you. You don't HAVE to go to be involved in those ministries, but it does provide benefits.

I still have many contacts that I met in Bible School, who have been valuable sources of encouragement, sound advice, and who have helped in the ministry.

[Praxeas]

Why should they go period? You should be able to learn Bible truth at your Church. Any foundation doctrine can be studied on the internet. Any of the Bible can be studied in the Bible itself.

Why should someone relocate and pay money when they don't need to?

And as to Oneness and Acts 2:38 my point was that's probably the only thing an Apostolic Bible College would teach and be accurate.
The same reason why anyone goes to college to learn things from someone who is already educated in that area.

Like I said, nobody goes to Bible College to learn Acts 2:38 or Oneness. They MAY learn how to better effectively teach or apologetically argue FOR it vs the internet hacks that usually muddle their way through it.

Here is the Master of Theology from Urshan Graduate school..you'll notice conspicuously missing is a simple lesson on Acts 2:38 and Oneness basics

• Biblical Studies (21)
3 OT Foundations (http://www.ugst.edu/uploaded/Downloads/Sample_Syllabi/Old_Testament_Foundations_Syllabus_Rev_1_April_21_ 2009_Rev_2_July_13_2009_%282%29.doc)
3 NT Foundations (http://www.ugst.edu/uploaded/Downloads/Sample_Syllabi/NTF-syllabus-2010_%282%29.doc)
3 Biblical Interpretation (http://www.ugst.edu/uploaded/Downloads/Sample_Syllabi/bibint2009.pdf)
3 Language I (Greek or Hebrew) (http://www.ugst.edu/page.cfm?p=407)
3 Language II (must be same as Language I) (http://www.ugst.edu/page.cfm?p=407)
3 Luke/Acts (http://www.ugst.edu/uploaded/Downloads/Sample_Syllabi/Luke-Acts_Syllabus.doc)
3 Book Study Elective (http://www.ugst.edu/page.cfm?p=407#bibstudies)
• Practical Theology (6)
3 Personal Spiritual Disciplines (http://www.ugst.edu/uploaded/Downloads/Sample_Syllabi/PSD_book_list.doc)
3 Mission of the Church (http://www.ugst.edu/uploaded/Downloads/Sample_Syllabi/MOC_Jan_09_Syllabus.doc)
• Biblical Theology (9)
3 Systematic Theology I (http://www.ugst.edu/uploaded/Downloads/Sample_Syllabi/Systematic_Theology_I_Syllabus_3_.pdf)
3 Systematic Theology II (http://www.ugst.edu/uploaded/Downloads/Sample_Syllabi/Systematic_Theology_II_Syllabus.doc)
3 Christology (http://www.ugst.edu/uploaded/Downloads/Sample_Syllabi/Electives/Christology_Syllabus.doc)
• Electives from any discipline (6)

Electives (http://www.ugst.edu/page.cfm?p=407#electives) from all disciplines (http://www.ugst.edu/page.cfm?p=407#electives)
• Historical Theology (6)
3 Early Christian History OR
Reformation & Modern Christian History (http://www.ugst.edu/uploaded/Downloads/Sample_Syllabi/CH1.pdf)
3 Modern Pentecostal Movements (http://www.ugst.edu/uploaded/Downloads%2FSample%5FSyllabi/2010_Syllabus-Modern_Pentecostal_Movements1.doc)
• Thesis (3)
Students will develop their plans with a faculty advisor. (Students may take an additional 3 credits for a longer thesis which would replace the elective credit from any discipline.)

[Praxeas]

Why should one that has received the baptism of the Holy Ghost attend an institution created by imperfect man when they possess the best Teacher one could possibly seek residing within them 24/7; One who promises to teach them ALL things, yes, even give them knowledge of things that are to come in the future?

Did not Christ Jesus say?

"... I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." (John 14:17-18)

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you." (John 16:13-14)

Is there a man-made educational institution anywhere that is able to achieve what Jesus tells us the Spirit of truth is able to do? I know of none.
Eph 4:11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers,
Eph 4:12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,

2Pe 3:15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,
2Pe 3:16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

[ILG]

The same reason why anyone goes to college to learn things from someone who is already educated in that area.

Like I said, nobody goes to Bible College to learn Acts 2:38 or Oneness. They MAY learn how to better effectively teach or apologetically argue FOR it vs the internet hacks that usually muddle their way through it.

Here is the Master of Theology from Urshan Graduate school..you'll notice conspicuously missing is a simple lesson on Acts 2:38 and Oneness basics

• Biblical Studies (21)
3 OT Foundations (http://www.ugst.edu/uploaded/Downloads/Sample_Syllabi/Old_Testament_Foundations_Syllabus_Rev_1_April_21_ 2009_Rev_2_July_13_2009_%282%29.doc)
3 NT Foundations (http://www.ugst.edu/uploaded/Downloads/Sample_Syllabi/NTF-syllabus-2010_%282%29.doc)
3 Biblical Interpretation (http://www.ugst.edu/uploaded/Downloads/Sample_Syllabi/bibint2009.pdf)
3 Language I (Greek or Hebrew) (http://www.ugst.edu/page.cfm?p=407)
3 Language II (must be same as Language I) (http://www.ugst.edu/page.cfm?p=407)
3 Luke/Acts (http://www.ugst.edu/uploaded/Downloads/Sample_Syllabi/Luke-Acts_Syllabus.doc)
3 Book Study Elective (http://www.ugst.edu/page.cfm?p=407#bibstudies)
• Practical Theology (6)
3 Personal Spiritual Disciplines (http://www.ugst.edu/uploaded/Downloads/Sample_Syllabi/PSD_book_list.doc)
3 Mission of the Church (http://www.ugst.edu/uploaded/Downloads/Sample_Syllabi/MOC_Jan_09_Syllabus.doc)
• Biblical Theology (9)
3 Systematic Theology I (http://www.ugst.edu/uploaded/Downloads/Sample_Syllabi/Systematic_Theology_I_Syllabus_3_.pdf)
3 Systematic Theology II (http://www.ugst.edu/uploaded/Downloads/Sample_Syllabi/Systematic_Theology_II_Syllabus.doc)
3 Christology (http://www.ugst.edu/uploaded/Downloads/Sample_Syllabi/Electives/Christology_Syllabus.doc)
• Electives from any discipline (6)

Electives (http://www.ugst.edu/page.cfm?p=407#electives) from all disciplines (http://www.ugst.edu/page.cfm?p=407#electives)
• Historical Theology (6)
3 Early Christian History OR
Reformation & Modern Christian History (http://www.ugst.edu/uploaded/Downloads/Sample_Syllabi/CH1.pdf)
3 Modern Pentecostal Movements (http://www.ugst.edu/uploaded/Downloads%2FSample%5FSyllabi/2010_Syllabus-Modern_Pentecostal_Movements1.doc)
• Thesis (3)
Students will develop their plans with a faculty advisor. (Students may take an additional 3 credits for a longer thesis which would replace the elective credit from any discipline.)

I understand the Urshan Graduate School is accredited is it not? Can a person who graduated with a bachelor's from a Oneness unaccredited Bible School attend there and get a masters?

[Michael The Disciple]

Eph 4:11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers,
Eph 4:12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,

2Pe 3:15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,
2Pe 3:16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

Yes the five fold ministry is what we need! But in the early Church of Acts it operated in the Churches. It is absurd to think the gifted Apostolic ministers charged people to teach them the truth. Totally absurd. And that's why Im against a so called "Bible College". Of course along with the fact most of the doctrine they teach is IMO error.

[Praxeas]

I understand the Urshan Graduate School is accredited is it not? Can a person who graduated with a bachelor's from a Oneness unaccredited Bible School attend there and get a masters?
Yes accredited. I don't know

[Praxeas]

Yes the five fold ministry is what we need! But in the early Church of Acts it operated in the Churches. It is absurd to think the gifted Apostolic ministers charged people to teach them the truth. Totally absurd. And that's why Im against a so called "Bible College". Of course along with the fact most of the doctrine they teach is IMO error.
You missed the point. teachers are taught. Paul was taught.

So now your real issue is they charge money? Can we stick to one REAL issue? So it's not about teaching Acts 2:38 and basic Oneness...because That is not what goes on at Bible schools..

The issue is you don't like the fact they charge for an College level education?

Well, consider this. Once those people get their degrees, hopefully they can go to our churches and then teach what they've learned (which was my original point) and you won't have to pay.

But sadly...things cost money. Even in the NT church if you wanted a copy of the bible you paid

If you like you can go to a third world nation and learn there by going through some Alpha courses, but you probably won't learn Greek and Hebrew and mostly will just learn Doctrine again

[n david]

Of course along with the fact most of the doctrine they teach is IMO error.
Right, you say this but you've never been there so you don't know what they teach.

[Michael The Disciple]

Right, you say this but you've never been there so you don't know what they teach.

I know that except for Oneness and Acts 2:38 they teach mostly error on foundation doctrine. So Pentecostals pay money to be taught error. If they were teaching any truth it would filter down to others and I have not heard of that happening.

[Michael The Disciple]

You missed the point. teachers are taught. Paul was taught.

So now your real issue is they charge money? Can we stick to one REAL issue? So it's not about teaching Acts 2:38 and basic Oneness...because That is not what goes on at Bible schools..

The issue is you don't like the fact they charge for an College level education?

Well, consider this. Once those people get their degrees, hopefully they can go to our churches and then teach what they've learned (which was my original point) and you won't have to pay.

But sadly...things cost money. Even in the NT church if you wanted a copy of the bible you paid




If you like you can go to a third world nation and learn there by going through some Alpha courses, but you probably won't learn Greek and Hebrew and mostly will just learn Doctrine again

Its not ordained by God. Here is the real way of Ministers ministering to the people. They do not charge them money to teach Gods holy truth!

28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. 32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified. 33 I have coveted no man’s silver, or gold, or apparel. 34 Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me. 35 I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive. Acts 20:28

Paul an Apostle who founded New Covenant Churches taught THE ELDERS OF THE CHURCH....to work with their own hands! Then they would not have to demand money to teach the word of truth.

But most are not interested in having a New Covenant Church. Its easy to see how this works. Man has corrupted Apostolic ways. So we have corrupted Churches.

[Praxeas]

So once again we are back to the real issue? You don't like higher education because it costs money...

[MawMaw]

I know several who have attended Apostolic Colleges.
All of them have turned out very well.
Some are now evangelists, pastors, bankers, teachers,
music teachers.
I hate when someone knocks something they have no
real experience with.

[Praxeas]

A lot of Christians are anti-intellectualism

[Michael The Disciple]

So once again we are back to the real issue? You don't like higher education because it costs money...

No the real issue is it is unbiblical. Comment on Acts 20:28-35. Particularly the last two verses.

[Michael The Disciple]

I know several who have attended Apostolic Colleges.
All of them have turned out very well.
Some are now evangelists, pastors, bankers, teachers,
music teachers.
I hate when someone knocks something they have no
real experience with.

But my experience is grounded in THE BIBLICAL NEW COVENANT CHURCH. The real Church never had pay to learn deep truth or pay to learn anything. The real Ministers taught truth to the saints in a Church setting or house to house. The Elders worked with their own hands and fed the flock even if the flock did not pay extra for it.

I hate it when people do things contrary to the scriptural pattern of the New Covenant Church.

[Michael The Disciple]

A lot of Christians are anti-intellectualism

Not me. Im against perverting the true Church.

[renee819]

I'm for higher education, but it seems to me that you have to dig it out for yourself. I went 1/2 semester to the Apostolic Collage in Mississippi. My husband didn't like it there and so we had to come back home.

If a person wants to advance in the Institutionalized Organization, then that is probably the best way. However it is my belief that our Institutionalized Denomination is headed in the wrong direction.

What did I learn?
I had already been studying on my own for years. I made straight A's, but I didn't learn much except probably some in Bible History.
In the class on “Daniel” I showed my teacher, Bro Eckstadt, a chart, on heavy cloth, 3 x 10 ft, that I had drawn, a few years before I went to Bible School. He looked at me, and said, “Sister, have you been in my notes.” The class got a laugh out of that.

I really enjoyed the Art Class. The teacher, joking suggested that the next year, I might be the teacher. Which couldn't happen, because my husband didn't like Mississippi.

[Michael The Disciple]

I'm for higher education, but it seems to me that you have to dig it out for yourself. I went 1/2 semester to the Apostolic Collage in Mississippi. My husband didn't like it there and so we had to come back home.

If a person wants to advance in the Institutionalized Organization, then that is probably the best way. However it is my belief that our Institutionalized Denomination is headed in the wrong direction.

What did I learn?
I had already been studying on my own for years. I made straight A's, but I didn't learn much except probably some in Bible History.
In the class on “Daniel” I showed my teacher, Bro Eckstadt, a chart, on heavy cloth, 3 x 10 ft, that I had drawn, a few years before I went to Bible School. He looked at me, and said, “Sister, have you been in my notes.” The class got a laugh out of that.

I really enjoyed the Art Class. The teacher, joking suggested that the next year, I might be the teacher. Which couldn't happen, because my husband didn't like Mississippi.

Do you mean John Eckstadt?

[renee819]

Do you mean John Eckstadt?

I believe his name was John. He taught a lot on Prophecy.

[n david]

I'm for higher education, but it seems to me that you have to dig it out for yourself. I went 1/2 semester to the Apostolic Collage in Mississippi. My husband didn't like it there and so we had to come back home.

What did I learn?
I had already been studying on my own for years. I made straight A's, but I didn't learn much except probably some in Bible History.
You went 1/2 semester, of course you likely didn't learn anything new! Much of the first semester or two of ANY university or college - secular or religious - is vanilla...going over things you likely already know.

[n david]

But my experience is grounded in THE BIBLICAL NEW COVENANT CHURCH. The real Church never had pay to learn deep truth or pay to learn anything. The real Ministers taught truth to the saints in a Church setting or house to house. The Elders worked with their own hands and fed the flock even if the flock did not pay extra for it.

I hate it when people do things contrary to the scriptural pattern of the New Covenant Church.
Times change and education costs money. You don't like people paying for religious education, fine, but don't make statements about somewhere you've never been or comment on something you've never experienced.

[Michael The Disciple]

Times change and education costs money. You don't like people paying for religious education, fine, but don't make statements about somewhere you've never been or comment on something you've never experienced.

I contend for the faith that was once delivered to the saints. You are opposing it. Therefore you leave me no choice. Just as there was no Trinitarian baptism, no pre trib rapture, there was no Bible College.

The Elders of the Church fed the flock Apostolic Truth. They did this while working with their own hands. They taught the true Apostolic doctrine. Todays Bible College Professors don't know it except Oneness and Acts 2:38.

[Michael The Disciple]

I believe his name was John. He taught a lot on Prophecy.

There was a John Eckstadt from Brooklyn. He was perhaps the best on the teaching of Oneness since Apostolic days. He also taught the truth of the resurrection of the dead.

Notwithstanding he never overcame pre trib rapture. I think he died in the late 70's.

[Praxeas]

No the real issue is it is unbiblical. Comment on Acts 20:28-35. Particularly the last two verses.
Then please stop changing the issue to cost.

So Colleges are unbiblical...ok
Great verses. Irrelevant to whether or not Colleges are unbiblical though

[n david]

No the real issue is it is unbiblical. Comment on Acts 20:28-35. Particularly the last two verses.
Those verses say NOTHING against having a college or university focusing on religious education. You're twisting these verses to try and advance your personal belief.

You have a personal belief against it, fine. But don't twist Scriptures to try and make your personal belief a Biblical standard.

That's as bad as people twisting Scripture to make their personal dress standard a Biblical one.

[Michael The Disciple]

Then please stop changing the issue to cost.

So Colleges are unbiblical...ok
Great verses. Irrelevant to whether or not Colleges are unbiblical though

If people want to relocate somewhere and pay men to teach them false doctrine its their business. However don't equate such things with the New Testament Apostolic Church.

[Michael The Disciple]

Those verses say NOTHING against having a college or university focusing on religious education. You're twisting these verses to try and advance your personal belief.

You have a personal belief against it, fine. But don't twist Scriptures to try and make your personal belief a Biblical standard.

That's as bad as people twisting Scripture to make their personal dress standard a Biblical one.

Im not twisting them you are ignoring them. Verses that show the ELDERS OF THE CHURCH were the ones who fed the Flock. No such thing as a pay Professors to teach divine truth "Bible College".

They would have been counted as false teachers seeking gain out of the ministry. Sincere men of God who love truth would gladly spend and be spent to teach Gods truth to the hungry.

A far cry from modern mans systems of error. The Bible colleges turn out the false teachers of the day we live.

[Praxeas]

If people want to relocate somewhere and pay men to teach them false doctrine its their business. However don't equate such things with the New Testament Apostolic Church.
Did you see the course curriculum from the Theology program I posted? As we said before going to a Seminary isn't necessarily about learning someone's doctrine.

[n david]

Im not twisting them you are ignoring them. Verses that show the ELDERS OF THE CHURCH were the ones who fed the Flock. No such thing as a pay Professors to teach divine truth "Bible College".

They would have been counted as false teachers seeking gain out of the ministry. Sincere men of God who love truth would gladly spend and be spent to teach Gods truth to the hungry.

A far cry from modern mans systems of error. The Bible colleges turn out the false teachers of the day we live.

Verse 28 is speaking to Pastors. It's speaking that Pastors need to feed the church of God they've been charged to oversee.

Those verses are about a Pastor and the local church body....NOT about how wrong it is for there to be a religious college or university.

Sorry, that's just absurd. You have no Bible to back up your PERSONAL belief. It is not a Biblical belief backed by Scripture; it's a personal belief backed by nothing more than personal prejudice.

You're twisting the Scripture.

[Michael The Disciple]

Verse 28 is speaking to Pastors. It's speaking that Pastors need to feed the church of God they've been charged to oversee.

Those verses are about a Pastor and the local church body....NOT about how wrong it is for there to be a religious college or university.

Sorry, that's just absurd. You have no Bible to back up your PERSONAL belief. It is not a Biblical belief backed by Scripture; it's a personal belief backed by nothing more than personal prejudice.

You're twisting the Scripture.

Ok then lets do it this way. Since you deny the relevance of the very clear pattern of learning God established in Acts 20........YOU may now give chapter and verse where the New Testament Apostolic Church conducted A BIBLE COLLEGE.

Then we will know your ideas are Biblical and right.

[n david]

Ok then lets do it this way. Since you deny the relevance of the very clear pattern of learning God established in Acts 20........YOU may now give chapter and verse where the New Testament Apostolic Church conducted A BIBLE COLLEGE.

Then we will know your ideas are Biblical and right.
I don't have to show you anything. You're the one saying it's wrong. YOU prove it by Scripture. You have a personal belief against it and want to use Acts 20 as your basis, but it doesn't support your claim. So now you want to shift the debate and say, "well you show me in the Scriptures where they had a Bible College."

No, thank you. I never said the Bible mentioned it. I only said you twisted Acts 20 to try and validate your personal belief.

BTW, a Synagogue was a place of assembly, which included learning or a school. The Orthodox refer to Synagogue as "shul," which is Yiddish for school. The Synagogue is a major part of Jewish life.

Now you'll say, "yah but there's no mention of the Apostles using the Synagogue."

Just admit this is something which you have no Biblical evidence against, but is rather a personal conviction or belief against. Like outward dress standards and other things not mentioned in Scripture.

[Sabby]

I graduated from a 3 Year unaccredited Apostolic bible college. It was closed in the mid 80s.

Reasons for going?

ETS'ed from the Army overseas (Did not have a "home" church in the states)
The alma mater of my pastor.
Reputation of being missions oriented.
Excellent Old Testament History course.
Opportunities for ministry practicum in the local area.
Networking.


Randy, it was called a Bridal college too!


Disadvantages?

Offered only Diploma for three years.
Unaccredited (Used up my GI Bill to attend)
Did not teach Greek OR Hebrew.
Older Facility located in an Industrial District.
Did not offer practical courses that would be useful for missionaries
School did not contain its own church (ie: CLC)

Would I do it again? Yes, if it was accredited. No, if it was unaccredited (but maybe for the first year).

I learned more through two pastors in three years than I did in 3 years combined of compressed study, graduating w/a double major: Ministerial/Christian Education.

[renee819]

There was a John Eckstadt from Brooklyn. He was perhaps the best on the teaching of Oneness since Apostolic days. He also taught the truth of the resurrection of the dead.

Notwithstanding he never overcame pre trib rapture. I think he died in the late 70's.

Probably the same person. Yes I heard that he died from, I believe it was a kidney problem. He wasn't that old.

I think most believed in a Pre-trib rapture at that time, I mentioned a few times that it was wrong. People looked at me as if I lost my mind.

[Michael The Disciple]

Probably the same person. Yes I heard that he died from, I believe it was a kidney problem. He wasn't that old.

I think most believed in a Pre-trib rapture at that time, I mentioned a few times that it was wrong. People looked at me as if I lost my mind.

Yes that sounds like him. I had a tape by him once called "The Word Before Made Flesh". It was the most magnificent preaching I ever heard. His son used to post on this forum.

[n david]

More on the Synagogue...

Acts 19:8 "And he [Paul] went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.

Matthew 13:54 "And when he [Jesus] was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?"

Acts 17:1-2 "Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews: And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures"

[Esaias]

http://www.faithfulwordbaptist.org/biblecollege.html

"2. The Only Mention of "College" in the Bible is Associated with a Female Preacher

"College" is mentioned only one time in the Bible in two parallel passages:

"So Hilkiah the priest, and Ahikam, and Achbor, and Shaphan, and Asahiah, went unto Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvah, the son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe; (now she dwelt in Jerusalem in the college;) and they communed with her." - 2 Kings 22:14

"And Hilkiah, and they that the king had appointed, went to Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvath, the son of Hasrah, keeper of the wardrobe; (now she dwelt in Jerusalem in the college:) and they spake to her to that effect." - 2 Chronicles 34:22

Personally, I do not believe that anything in the Bible is incidental, coincidental, or accidental. If Bible College was such an important part of God's program, then why is it never mentioned in the Bible in a positive light? Many will point to Elisha's "School of the Prophets" as a scriptural mandate for Bible college. However, does the Bible really speak of a "school" of the prophets?

If you repeat a lie often enough, people will begin to believe it. The reality is that the word "school" is also only mentioned one time in the Bible, and it has nothing to do with Elisha:

"And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God. But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus." - Acts 19:8,9

The "school" of Tyrannus, just as the synagogue, was a place that Paul and the other disciples went to preach to unbelievers. It was not a training instution for God's people, but rather for the world. Paul went there simply to win souls, just as he went to the synagogue to win souls.

Therefore the only mention of "college" in the Bible involves a woman preacher, and only mention of "school" in the Bible involves people disputing with the word of God. This cannot be an accident."

[n david]

"And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God. But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus." - Acts 19:8,9

The "school" of Tyrannus, just as the synagogue, was a place that Paul and the other disciples went to preach to unbelievers. It was not a training institution for God's people, but rather for the world. Paul went there simply to win souls, just as he went to the synagogue to win souls.

Therefore the only mention of "college" in the Bible involves a woman preacher, and only mention of "school" in the Bible involves people disputing with the word of God. This cannot be an accident."
If we're going strictly on what the Bible does/does not say about modern church, ministry, life, etc.....the majority of what we do is not mentioned in the Bible; does that mean that we're not living right? :hmmm

About Tyrannus, your claim that it was not a training institution for God's people and that Paul just went to win souls is debatable:


Pulpit Commentary
The school of Tyrannus; σχολή, leisure; then, "the employment of leisure," as especially in philosophic discussions and the like; thirdly, the "place" were such discussions were held, a school. It is uncertain whether Tyrannus was a Gentile well known at the time (without the τινός), who kept a lecture room for philosophic discussions or lectures on rhetoric, or whether he was a Jew who held a private school or meeting in his house - a beth-midrash - as was not uncommon in large towns where many Jews were (Light foot, vol. 3. p. 236). "Beth-midrash - The Jewish divinity school, where their doctors disputed of the more high and difficult matters of the Law" (Index to Lightfoot's Works). It was commonly the upper room in the house of a rabbi (Lightfoot, on Acts 2:13, vol. 8:363), whence "house of rabbis "was synonymous with beth-midrash, house of discussion.

Beth Midrash (Hebrew: בית מדרש‎; also Beis Medrash, Beit Midrash, pl. batei midrash or botei medrash, lit. "House [of] Interpretation" or "House [of] Learning") refers to a study hall, whether in a synagogue, yeshiva, kollel, or other building. It is distinct from a synagogue, although many synagogues are also used as batei midrash and vice versa.


Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
disputing—"discoursing" or "discussing."
dialegomai: to discuss, to address, to preach
Original Word: διαλέγομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: dialegomai
Phonetic Spelling: (dee-al-eg'-om-ahee)
Short Definition: I converse, address, preach, lecture
Definition: I converse, address, preach, lecture; I argue, reason.
1) You make an assumption by stating they were disputing with the Word of God. The verse actually says, "disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus." It mentions nothing about what they were disputing about. As the information above says, many of these schools were for instruction in Jewish law.

2) The word "dispute" has different meanings, as shown. You again assume that the verse shows it as negative, when more than likely it meant the above definitions: converse, address, lecture, argue, reason. None of which are as negative as you're making it out to be.

[Esaias]

About Tyrannus, your claim that it was not a training institution for God's people and that Paul just went to win souls is debatable:

I was simply quoting an article by a Baptist giving some reasons against 'Bible college'.

Not saying I agree or disagree with him.

[n david]

I was simply quoting an article by a Baptist giving some reasons against 'Bible college'.

Not saying I agree or disagree with him.
Ah, ok.

I don't disagree with the opinion that local assemblies should lead with biblical instruction. I was raised during a time when if you wanted to be involved in ministry, you pretty much had to attend a Bible School. I don't agree with that; you don't have to go to a Bible School to be involved in ministry. I just disagree that Bible School is wrong because it's "not what the early church did."

My Pastor recently mentioned his desire to create a curriculum for people wanting to be involved in ministry, using local elders and others. Hopefully that will be launched next year.

[navygoat1998]

Ah, ok.

I don't disagree with the opinion that local assemblies should lead with biblical instruction. I was raised during a time when if you wanted to be involved in ministry, you pretty much had to attend a Bible School. I don't agree with that; you don't have to go to a Bible School to be involved in ministry. I just disagree that Bible School is wrong because it's "not what the early church did."

My Pastor recently mentioned his desire to create a curriculum for people wanting to be involved in ministry, using local elders and others. Hopefully that will be launched next year.

Have you pastor look at this: http://www.cstisandiego.com/ministries.php?id=4254&

[n david]

Have you pastor look at this: http://www.cstisandiego.com/ministries.php?id=4254&
I would...but I see a problem already. They charge a fee! $1,580 for 4 years of learning God's word!? 'Tis sacrilege!

:toofunny

[navygoat1998]

I would...but I see a problem already. They charge a fee! $1,580 for 4 years of learning God's word!? 'Tis sacrilege!

:toofunny

Buy the truth and sell it not :heeheehee

[renee819]

Buy the truth and sell it not :heeheehee

That scripture always puzzled me.

Where are you going to buy the Truth, if those that have it are not supposed to sell it.

And again, I don't believe we are to sell the Truth. Am I missing something?

[navygoat1998]

That scripture always puzzled me.

Where are you going to buy the Truth, if those that have it are not supposed to sell it.

And again, I don't believe we are to sell the Truth. Am I missing something?

Sister Renee, It was the favorite scripture of my wife's old pastors and they attached it to the Acts 2:38 message.

When I give my wife a hard time I will tell her now Sister Julie "lets buy the truth and sell it not" of course I get a smack in my head. :heeheehee

[n david]

That scripture always puzzled me.

Where are you going to buy the Truth, if those that have it are not supposed to sell it.

And again, I don't believe we are to sell the Truth. Am I missing something?
It doesn't mean literally buying or selling truth; there is no price which could be attached to it.

IMO it just means we're to sacrifice whatever we must to have the truth of the word of God, and not give it up for anything. Give up what we must to get it, and never "sell" it for fame, riches, etc.

[renee819]

Sister Renee, It was the favorite scripture of my wife's old pastors and they attached it to the Acts 2:38 message.

When I give my wife a hard time I will tell her now Sister Julie "lets buy the truth and sell it not" of course I get a smack in my head. :heeheehee

And you probably need a smack. :smack :heeheehee

By the way, I love your byline,...

Scripture is its own interpreter. Nothing can cut a diamond but a diamond. Nothing can interpret Scripture but Scripture" Thomas Watson

It also reminds me of "iron sharpens iron"

[navygoat1998]

And you probably need a smack. :smack :heeheehee

By the way, I love your byline,...

Scripture is its own interpreter. Nothing can cut a diamond but a diamond. Nothing can interpret Scripture but Scripture" Thomas Watson

It also reminds me of "iron sharpens iron"

You are correct I do need a smack. :highfive

I to love that byline.

[Disciple4life]

I graduated from a 3 Year unaccredited Apostolic bible college. It was closed in the mid 80s.

Reasons for going?

ETS'ed from the Army overseas (Did not have a "home" church in the states)
The alma mater of my pastor.
Reputation of being missions oriented.
Excellent Old Testament History course.
Opportunities for ministry practicum in the local area.
Networking.


Randy, it was called a Bridal college too!


Disadvantages?

Offered only Diploma for three years.
Unaccredited (Used up my GI Bill to attend)
Did not teach Greek OR Hebrew.
Older Facility located in an Industrial District.
Did not offer practical courses that would be useful for missionaries
School did not contain its own church (ie: CLC)

Would I do it again? Yes, if it was accredited. No, if it was unaccredited (but maybe for the first year).

I learned more through two pastors in three years than I did in 3 years combined of compressed study, graduating w/a double major: Ministerial/Christian Education.

Thank You for your input!

This is what I wanted to know the pros and cons of attending a bible college and if you would do it again.

I was not trying to start a debate on the validity of bible colleges. :smack

[RandyWayne]

I graduated from a 3 Year unaccredited Apostolic bible college. It was closed in the mid 80s.

Reasons for going?

ETS'ed from the Army overseas (Did not have a "home" church in the states)
The alma mater of my pastor.
Reputation of being missions oriented.
Excellent Old Testament History course.
Opportunities for ministry practicum in the local area.
Networking.


Randy, it was called a Bridal college too!


Disadvantages?

Offered only Diploma for three years.
Unaccredited (Used up my GI Bill to attend)
Did not teach Greek OR Hebrew.
Older Facility located in an Industrial District.
Did not offer practical courses that would be useful for missionaries
School did not contain its own church (ie: CLC)

Would I do it again? Yes, if it was accredited. No, if it was unaccredited (but maybe for the first year).

I learned more through two pastors in three years than I did in 3 years combined of compressed study, graduating w/a double major: Ministerial/Christian Education.

I tell ya, these Bible colleges are missing a HUGE income opportunity by not ripping a page from Vegas and including small wedding chapels on campus, complete with Bro Haney and LS impersonators to officiate. Elvis may work too for those so inclined. :)

[renee819]

It doesn't mean literally buying or selling truth; there is no price which could be attached to it.

IMO it just means we're to sacrifice whatever we must to have the truth of the word of God, and not give it up for anything. Give up what we must to get it, and never "sell" it for fame, riches, etc.

That seems to be a good explanation.

[Luke]

I graduated from Bible college about 5 and a half years ago it was about the best descion that i made as far as my walk with God and preparation for the ministry were concerned. I did not meet my wife there but i did recieve hands on training through ministry opportunities such as nursing home, jail services, children's church, and door to door practicums (practical ministries). I was also very blessed to learn form those who had been in the ministry for many years and to learn from both thier successes and failures. I was able to build a foundation as far as doctrine was concerned. Most of all i would say it was an amazing experience to be able to set aside four years of my life to study and learn without all of the outside hinderances of busy life. I do not think that you have to go to Bible college inorder to be in in the ministry but i do beleieve that it is a great help and resource.

[navygoat1998]

I graduated from Bible college about 5 and a half years ago it was about the best descion that i made as far as my walk with God and preparation for the ministry were concerned. I did not meet my wife there but i did recieve hands on training through ministry opportunities such as nursing home, jail services, children's church, and door to door practicums (practical ministries). I was also very blessed to learn form those who had been in the ministry for many years and to learn from both thier successes and failures. I was able to build a foundation as far as doctrine was concerned. Most of all i would say it was an amazing experience to be able to set aside four years of my life to study and learn without all of the outside hinderances of busy life. I do not think that you have to go to Bible college inorder to be in in the ministry but i do beleieve that it is a great help and resource.

I am sorry Luke but your 1-stepper :heeheehee

[Luke]

I am sorry Luke but your 1-stepper :heeheehee


Also a trinitarian and a believer in christian perfection lol:boxing

[navygoat1998]

Also a trinitarian and a believer in christian perfection lol:boxing

:faint

[n david]

I graduated from Bible college about 5 and a half years ago it was about the best descion that i made as far as my walk with God and preparation for the ministry were concerned. I did not meet my wife there but i did recieve hands on training through ministry opportunities such as nursing home, jail services, children's church, and door to door practicums (practical ministries). I was also very blessed to learn form those who had been in the ministry for many years and to learn from both thier successes and failures. I was able to build a foundation as far as doctrine was concerned. Most of all i would say it was an amazing experience to be able to set aside four years of my life to study and learn without all of the outside hinderances of busy life. I do not think that you have to go to Bible college inorder to be in in the ministry but i do beleieve that it is a great help and resource.
:thumbsup

Also a trinitarian and a believer in christian perfection lol:boxing
:smack


:toofunny

[Michael The Disciple]

Also a trinitarian and a believer in christian perfection lol:boxing

A Trin? You are just kidding?

[Luke]

A Trin? You are just kiddimg?

No I am a trinitarian although I don't see it as a make or break point of fellowship.

[navygoat1998]

No I am a trinitarian although I don't see it as a make or break point of fellowship.

:faint

[houston]

No I am a trinitarian although I don't see it as a make or break point of fellowship.You, Navy, and myself...

Brother, where two or THREE are gathered...

[navygoat1998]

You, Navy, and myself...

Brother, where two or THREE are gathered...

Excuse me Brother, but I am Oneness Trintarian. :foottap

[navygoat1998]

No I am a trinitarian although I don't see it as a make or break point of fellowship.

Luke you just broke Michael's heart. :heeheehee

[Michael The Disciple]

No I am a trinitarian although I don't see it as a make or break point of fellowship.

Why do you believe in the Trinity?

[houston]

Excuse me Brother, but I am Oneness Trintarian. :foottapI was reading comments on one of Dawkins Foundation FB posts.

Atheists were saying that the Trinity in the UK consists of 3. The Trinity in the West is 1. A guy said, "I don't know what happened there."

I thought that was interesting.

[renee819]

I was reading comments on one of Dawkins Foundation FB posts.

Atheists were saying that the Trinity in the UK consists of 3. The Trinity in the West is 1. A guy said, "I don't know what happened there."

I thought that was interesting.

Not just interesting, but a half-truth. I don't know how anyone can believe, that Three Persons, is One God.

Even if they say, They, the Three agree as ONE, it would be more understandable. But no, the still insist the Three Persons is One God.

And even if they say, the Three agree, Three Persons equal - Three God's.

[houston]

Not just interesting, but a half-truth. I don't know how anyone can believe, that Three Persons, is One God. Even if they say, They, the Three agree as ONE, it would be more understandable. But no, the still insist the Three Persons is One God. And even if they say, the Three agree, Three Persons equal - Three God's.they caught the last train for the coast...

the day the music died

[Esaias]

You guys didn't know Luke was holiness pentecostal? ie trinitarian and second work sanctification?

You guys must not have been paying attention to his posts.

[navygoat1998]

You guys didn't know Luke was holiness pentecostal? ie trinitarian and second work sanctification?

You guys must not have been paying attention to his posts.

:thumbsup

[Luke]

Why do you believe in the Trinity?

I just see to many places in the Bible where to believe in oneness doctrine would not fit some examples of these are:

John 8:16,29
16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

John 16:13-15
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

There are many more places in the new testament that could be pointed out but one very interesting one from the old testament that i will point out also:

Proverbs 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

I do not bash or look down on those who disagree with me on this topic I agree with oness believers that Jesus is God i agree that the blood washes away our sin i agree that the baptism of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues is for us today and really should not be thought of as opional ( though i do not beleive that one must speak in tongues in order to be saved but that the baptism of the Holy Ghost is a subsequent work of God) I agree that baptism is a needful thing in our christian experience (though i would not say that we saved at the point of baptism but at the point of repentance and faith in Jesus but if a person choose not to be baptized or is offered the chanced and refuses or does not seek to be baptized they will forefite their salvation). There are many places and ways I agree with oneness pentecostals and therefore i cannot as some trinitarians speak of them as a cult but rather veiw them as fellow christians and as my brothers and sister in Christ.

[navygoat1998]

I just see to many places in the Bible where to believe in oneness doctrine would not fit some examples of these are:

John 8:16,29
16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

John 16:13-15
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

There are many more places in the new testament that could be pointed out but one very interesting one from the old testament that i will point out also:

Proverbs 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

I do not bash or look down on those who disagree with me on this topic I agree with oness believers that Jesus is God i agree that the blood washes away our sin i agree that the baptism of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues is for us today and really should not be thought of as opional ( though i do not beleive that one must speak in tongues in order to be saved but that the baptism of the Holy Ghost is a subsequent work of God) I agree that baptism is a needful thing in our christian experience (though i would not say that we saved at the point of baptism but at the point of repentance and faith in Jesus but if a person choose not to be baptized or is offered the chanced and refuses or does not seek to be baptized they will forefite their salvation). There are many places and ways I agree with oneness pentecostals and therefore i cannot as some trinitarians speak of them as a cult but rather veiw them as fellow christians and as my brothers and sister in Christ.

:yourock

[Michael The Disciple]

I just see to many places in the Bible where to believe in oneness doctrine would not fit some examples of these are:

John 8:16,29
16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

John 16:13-15
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

There are many more places in the new testament that could be pointed out but one very interesting one from the old testament that i will point out also:

Proverbs 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

I do not bash or look down on those who disagree with me on this topic I agree with oness believers that Jesus is God i agree that the blood washes away our sin i agree that the baptism of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues is for us today and really should not be thought of as opional ( though i do not beleive that one must speak in tongues in order to be saved but that the baptism of the Holy Ghost is a subsequent work of God) I agree that baptism is a needful thing in our christian experience (though i would not say that we saved at the point of baptism but at the point of repentance and faith in Jesus but if a person choose not to be baptized or is offered the chanced and refuses or does not seek to be baptized they will forefite their salvation). There are many places and ways I agree with oneness pentecostals and therefore i cannot as some trinitarians speak of them as a cult but rather veiw them as fellow christians and as my brothers and sister in Christ.

A problem with this. Not one of any of your examples mentions there being 3 CO EQUAL, CO ETERNAL, persons each one of them being God distinct from the other.

Trins I talk to love to get a big laugh out of Jesus being both Father and Son.

YET......it does not occur to them the absurdity of the main definition of Trinity.

If the Father and the Son are CO ETERNAL how could one be the Father of the other? Instead they would be more like TWINS would they not?

The Father would not really be the FATHER at all! If the Son is a co eternal person NO ONE FATHERED HIM! Amen?

If I were to return to my Trinitarian beliefs I would THEN have a whole set of scriptures as you do that would be always making me think HMMMMM I wonder what that means?

You know like Isaiah 9:6 which plainly tells us the Christ IS BOTH THE FATHER AND THE SON!

So yes I am saddened to hear you are Trinitarian. But by no means do I blanketly assume all Oneness to be more spiritual than all Trins.

Once past Oneness and Acts 2:38 Oneness Pentecostals have little to offer IMO.

[SOUNWORTHY]

I graduated from Bible college not once but twice. I also attended a secular University.
The Bible college was priceless the University was useless, not sure what I learned that I had not already learned in Bible college.

[RandyWayne]

I graduated from Bible college not once but twice. I also attended a secular University.
The Bible college was priceless the University was useless, not sure what I learned that I had not already learned in Bible college.

Twice? Reminds me of a classic scene from the series COPS where a drunk was pulled over and told the officer he had a 12 year education because he graduated from the 6th grade twice.

And I do agree that SOME University degrees, such as a Phd in the Studies of Erotic Poetry or a Masters in Oriental Clay Sculpting, can be pretty useless.

[MarcBee]

...

Trins I talk to love to get a big laugh out of Jesus being both Father and Son.

YET......it does not occur to them the absurdity of the main definition of Trinity.

If the Father and the Son are CO ETERNAL how could one be the Father of the other? Instead they would be more like TWINS would they not?...



Oh yeah, your take is perfect sense. In the year I graduated from a UPC Bible college, I probably wouldn't have thought the attached graphic was funny, either. (click to enlarge.)

[RandyWayne]

Oh yeah, your take is perfect sense. In the year I graduated from a UPC Bible college, I probably wouldn't have thought the attached graphic was funny, either.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4281&d=1381367355


:slaphappy

[Sabby]

Thank You for your input!

This is what I wanted to know the pros and cons of attending a bible college and if you would do it again.

I was not trying to start a debate on the validity of bible colleges. :smack

I figured as much.

[TGBTG]

You guys didn't know Luke was holiness pentecostal? ie trinitarian and second work sanctification?

You guys must not have been paying attention to his posts.

Interesting. I also ASSUMED he was oneness.

[William York]

Texas Bible College, CLC-Stockton, Indiana Bible College, Urshan Graduate University, Gateway. Kent also has one. These are actually common and what some disciples never learn is that the intense training and learning various methods of study are valuable. You are not wasting time sharpening the axe. Many people who never went say don't go, but those of us that lived through it count it as an infinitely valuable experience. Yes, you will be challenged there and forced to think about doctrine like you haven't in the past, but for those that LOVE the truth and submit to a proper authority the Bible is clear, "Buy the truth and sell it not."