So the church turned out to be a cult, or cultic..

[NewbieMisfits]

So the church we were attending turned out to be a cult. I'm not going to go into details as to why, but I assure you it very much was, and this hurts us both.

So now....

Attempt another Apostolic (non-UPCI to play it safe) church?

Just stop and don't look for a few?

What do we do so we can take what was indeed real and keep growing, rather than tanking?


Tnks

[RandyWayne]

Did the guard tower which had the guy with the AR-15 give it away? LOL





Or were the signs a bit more subtle?

http://www.familyguyepisodes.com/img/s04e18-the-father-the-son-and-the-holy-fonz.jpg

[Michael The Disciple]

So the church we were attending turned out to be a cult. I'm not going to go into details as to why, but I assure you it very much was, and this hurts us both.

So now....

Attempt another Apostolic (non-UPCI to play it safe) church?

Just stop and don't look for a few?

What do we do so we can take what was indeed real and keep growing, rather than tanking?


Tnks

Right now its hard to find a good Church. Sorry for how this turned out for you. Believe me, I understand. Keep loving Jesus. Call around to Churches and check them out before visiting. You can save yourself some strife that way.

I would have to know more about what you consider the true Church to help you.

[NewbieMisfits]

Did the guard tower which had the guy with the AR-15 give it away? LOL

OK, I'll admit it always filled the checklist of being one, but it was "cool", and it was all about love and God's love... so what's bad about that?

It was a week ago when things got rather WAY OUT of control, something we haven't witnessed in 6months, which led to something we've never witnessed and are praying daily we never see again!

I will never again question the existence of dark spirits!


Point is, after days of going through very rough times, things are all coming back to light, Thank God!

I don't know right know what to think of it, this is even worse when I told my liaison and he fully agreed with me, and agreed why it happened. He told me it's not the first time and wont be the last, it's confirmation that they got it right<!!!

So then I'm like GEEZ, and I start hearing from other apostolic's that either A. yeah, that happens... or B. It's a cult dummy, run!

SO........

point is... I'd run from all Apostolics.... but then these people did not mean to bring on this spirit I feel, and we've never felt so much love.... and then the fact that other Apo's told me to RUN it's a cult, tells me (along with much research) that I should not be so ignorant as to lump all Apo's as a cult....

So now what?

[NewbieMisfits]

Right now its hard to find a good Church. Sorry for how this turned out for you. Believe me, I understand. Keep loving Jesus. Call around to Churches and check them out before visiting. You can save yourself some strife that way.

I would have to know more about what you consider the true Church to help you.

A true Church? One that preaches FROM THE BIBLE! Directly, not by complete indirect means!
A moderate conservative would be nice, as we are believers of worldly separation, respect to God, and trying to live more like what Christ taught growing day by day (no we're not perfect), but the #1 definition of a Christian Church is one that is based on scripture not taken out of context and abused.

Also one that follows scripture, so that a dark spirit doesn't swarm through the church and ends up really pissed-off trying to breath a spirit NOT OF GOD down one's wife's throat!

God Help Every One Of US!

[Praxeas]

Not knowing what you considered "cult" traits it's hard to give recommendations

[NewbieMisfits]

So I ask you all, who have shown much love, whatever advice you have. I ask this so we do not backslide and continue to grow, continue to hunger for Christ.

[LOVE JESUS]

Can you give us examples of what made it a "cult". Maybe some more people need to be educated of what makes it a cult. I believe you brother but would like to know what happened or made you determine that it was a cult. Thank you for sharing and God bless you.

[RandyWayne]

Can you give us examples of what made it a "cult". Maybe some more people need to be educated of what makes it a cult. I believe you brother but would like to know what happened or made you determine that it was a cult. Thank you for sharing and God bless you.

Ditto

[NewbieMisfits]

What you are asking for is a long, and still may not come across correctly, and would for surely only turn into an argument sidetracking the thread. So as I'm not asking if this was a cult, or for anyone to believe it was, could I get advice from those that know what I'm saying here as to any advice you might have.

[Michael The Disciple]

Ditto.

[Praxeas]

What you are asking for is a long, and still may not come across correctly, and would for surely only turn into an argument sidetracking the thread. So as I'm not asking if this was a cult, or for anyone to believe it was, could I get advice from those that know what I'm saying here as to any advice you might have.
I think you are missing our point. I can't recommend you find another church without knowing what it is you view as "cultic" traits in a church.

[RandyWayne]

Cultic teachings obviously range from subtle to overt. A subtle example is the continual teaching that church leadership (usually the pastor or someone otherwise known as the "man of gawd!") is "God's anointed" and that we are not to question or disobey. There are usually numerous stories about those who DID disobey and met horrible endings.

More obvious are the guard towers with men sporting AR-15's.

Somewhere in the middle -and this is common to nearly (if not all) cults, are weird teachings concerning marital relations, and sex in general.

[Praxeas]

In other words, not knowing what you consider "cult" in a church there really isn't any advice I can give at the moment

[Michael The Disciple]

My advice is to look for a Church that is sound foundationally. Acts 2:38 and Oneness. Discipleship and gifts of the spirit encouraged. The laying on of hands for healing and the Holy Spirit baptism. The post trib rapture is taught with the doctrine of the resurrection of the dead.

One that teaches the destruction of the wicked and the 1000 year reign.

That would be a good foundation.

Then woman are taught to cover their heads with a headcovering when they pray or prophesy in the meeting. Love is encouraged and practiced, having all things common.

The Church if it starts to gain membership should be led by a plurality of elders not one man. No Women Elders are considered.

Holiness and perfection can then become our lifes aim, abiding in Christ.

That's my advice.

[Esaias]

OK, I'll admit it always filled the checklist of being one, but it was "cool", and it was all about love and God's love... so what's bad about that?

It was a week ago when things got rather WAY OUT of control, something we haven't witnessed in 6months, which led to something we've never witnessed and are praying daily we never see again!

I will never again question the existence of dark spirits!


Point is, after days of going through very rough times, things are all coming back to light, Thank God!

I don't know right know what to think of it, this is even worse when I told my liaison and he fully agreed with me, and agreed why it happened. He told me it's not the first time and wont be the last, it's confirmation that they got it right<!!!

So then I'm like GEEZ, and I start hearing from other apostolic's that either A. yeah, that happens... or B. It's a cult dummy, run!

SO........

point is... I'd run from all Apostolics.... but then these people did not mean to bring on this spirit I feel, and we've never felt so much love.... and then the fact that other Apo's told me to RUN it's a cult, tells me (along with much research) that I should not be so ignorant as to lump all Apo's as a cult....

So now what?

Did they try to pray for your wife to receive the Holy Ghost?

[n david]

I don't know right know what to think of it, this is even worse when I told my liaison and he fully agreed with me, and agreed why it happened. He told me it's not the first time and wont be the last, it's confirmation that they got it right<!!!
You have a liaison? What does your liaison do? Who else here has a liaison?

[n david]

Did they try to pray for your wife to receive the Holy Ghost?
Why would that make the church a cult?

[Esaias]

Why would that make the church a cult?

It wouldn't. However, I have seen many people claim that when a church prays for someone to receive the Holy Ghost, it is a sign they are an evil cult.

So I was just trying to rule that out.

[Esaias]

Yes they prayed many times & that had nothing to do with anything cultic.

When the preacher's wife had her hands at the base of Miss Misift's neck telling M.M. to inhale her spirit, that was something dark, but not cultic... (from what we know).....

My first guess would be that was just ignorant, not necessarily a 'dark spirit'. Of course, I wasn't there so don't know.

It would be a pretty good sign to me that it might be time to move along, tho lol.

[Esaias]

A liaison is one's (newcomers) sole contact to the church, usually an elder, very nice and very strict.

They see to it you do not miss any services, they keep you in line, they come to your home, they "teach" you the guidelines or the church, they show up at you different times and different places (like when they stalked our Amish friends to cut us off from them), they are those that limit your connection with others in the church, they are those that explain tithing, they are those that tell you to go down front, they are those that control who's in or out, they approve your study bible, they teach your bible study, one who tells you what you need to correct in life, they decide when social shunning is needed, they are your "handlers", and much much more.

We've seen this at other churches as well and see nothing wrong with having them, as we agree with good levels of control. Although this one started to get out of hand.
*note they do not call themselves liaison's, but it's the only word for it.

Every new christian ought to be discipled, and the more I study Scripture the more I come to the conclusion that discipleship = mentorship. Thus a 'liason' of sorts sounds biblical.

However...

"They see to it you do not miss any services...they show up at you different times and different places (like when they stalked our Amish friends to cut us off from them), they are those that limit your connection with others in the church...they are those that tell you to go down front, they are those that control who's in or out...they are your "handlers"..."

These things are unscriptural and sound like something the Boston Movement would be involved in, or the charismatic 'Shepherding Movement'...

Not cool.

[n david]

When the preacher's wife had her hands at the base of Miss Misift's neck telling M.M. to inhale her spirit, that was something dark, but not cultic... (from what we know).....
Here's your sign...

:lol

[n david]

A liaison is one's (newcomers) sole contact to the church, usually an elder, very nice and very strict.

They see to it you do not miss any services, they keep you in line, they come to your home, they "teach" you the guidelines or the church, they show up at you different times and different places (like when they stalked our Amish friends to cut us off from them), they are those that limit your connection with others in the church, they are those that explain tithing, they are those that tell you to go down front, they are those that control who's in or out, they approve your study bible, they teach your bible study, one who tells you what you need to correct in life, they decide when social shunning is needed, they are your "handlers", and much much more.
Whoa! Are you sure you weren't attending a church of Scientology??? :toofunny Seriously though, that sounds more like what I've heard from Scientology than a Pentecostal church.

In my entire lifetime of being in Pentecost, and the majority of that time in the UPC, I have never heard of these kind of "minders," "handlers," or "liaisons." Maybe I'm just an incredibly lucky guy...I've never had or witnessed this phenomenon.

[NewbieMisfits]

Whoa! Are you sure you weren't attending a church of Scientology??? :toofunny Seriously though, that sounds more like what I've heard from Scientology than a Pentecostal church.

In my entire lifetime of being in Pentecost, and the majority of that time in the UPC, I have never heard of these kind of "minders," "handlers," or "liaisons." Maybe I'm just an incredibly lucky guy...I've never had or witnessed this phenomenon.

and that statement gives us hope ;)

[Esaias]

In my entire lifetime of being in Pentecost, and the majority of that time in the UPC, I have never heard of these kind of "minders," "handlers," or "liaisons." Maybe I'm just an incredibly lucky guy...I've never had or witnessed this phenomenon.

Same here.

Sounds more like a charismatic church or ICC group than a UPC or Oneness Pentecostal church.

[RandyWayne]

Lemme guess, these handlers also go a weekly report on any and all internet use and message board posts?

If you left this church are they still coming around your home and/or occasionally calling?

[NewbieMisfits]

I indeed have been told of weekly meeting where all "officials" get together and discuss our case and other newcomers.

As for message boards, no idea. Hints of such, but nothing directly. If so then it is what it is.

[navygoat1998]

Same here.

Sounds more like a charismatic church or ICC group than a UPC or Oneness Pentecostal church.

So those types of things can only happen in Trin churches???? :smack

[n david]

I indeed have been told of weekly meeting where all "officials" get together and discuss our case and other newcomers.

As for message boards, no idea. Hints of such, but nothing directly. If so then it is what it is.
Wow. I'm really sorry you had to experience that with the first church you found.

I've had a couple friends who have each been in a church where the Pastor was very controlling over vacation or time away from church.

[Esaias]

So those types of things can only happen in Trin churches???? :smack

Apaprently you are not familiar with the ICC or those charismatics involved in 'shepherding'. It has nothing do with 'trinity vs oneness'.

[navygoat1998]

Wow. I'm really sorry you had to experience that with the first church you found.

I've had a couple friends who have each been in a church where the Pastor was very controlling over vacation or time away from church.

In some it goes much deeper than that. :thumbsup

[Jermyn Davidson]

Whoa! Are you sure you weren't attending a church of Scientology??? :toofunny Seriously though, that sounds more like what I've heard from Scientology than a Pentecostal church.

In my entire lifetime of being in Pentecost, and the majority of that time in the UPC, I have never heard of these kind of "minders," "handlers," or "liaisons." Maybe I'm just an incredibly lucky guy...I've never had or witnessed this phenomenon.

I have.

It doesn't have to be a bad thing. What the poster described can all be done in a way of love and care and not in creepiness, if done with prayer.

The only thing I would take issue with is the liason contacting the new believer's friends. If done behind the new believer's back and without the new believer's approval and if the liason has no connection to the new believer's friends other than through the new believer, then what was done was wrong.

[Jermyn Davidson]

I indeed have been told of weekly meeting where all "officials" get together and discuss our case and other newcomers.

As for message boards, no idea. Hints of such, but nothing directly. If so then it is what it is.


I guess I'm just the odd man out but, I don't see what is wrong with this.

[n david]

What the poster described can all be done in a way of love and care and not in creepiness, if done with prayer.

They see to it you do not miss any services, they keep you in line, they come to your home, they "teach" you the guidelines or the church, they show up at you different times and different places (like when they stalked our Amish friends to cut us off from them), they are those that limit your connection with others in the church, they are those that explain tithing, they are those that tell you to go down front, they are those that control who's in or out, they approve your study bible, they teach your bible study, one who tells you what you need to correct in life, they decide when social shunning is needed, they are your "handlers", and much much more.
I believe there should be people who visit and follow up with new converts. I believe someone should give new converts a bible study. I believe new converts should be taught what the church believes and preaches - aka guidelines. I believe the new convert should be given as much information about the church as possible, so they can know and understand what they're getting into.

However, I do NOT believe any church should be doing what is in bold above. Making sure you don't miss services; keeping you in line; showing up to find you at different times/places; limiting connection to others in church; telling you to go down front; approving a study Bible (!?); telling you what you need to correct in your life; social shunning??!!

I indeed have been told of weekly meeting where all "officials" get together and discuss our case and other newcomers.I guess I'm just the odd man out but, I don't see what is wrong with this.
Based on the above, it's just creepy and wrong.

[Esaias]

Hey Jermyn... you're a democrat, right?

:slaphappy:killinme

Sorry, couldn't resist...

:icecream

[Ferd]

Whoa! Are you sure you weren't attending a church of Scientology??? :toofunny Seriously though, that sounds more like what I've heard from Scientology than a Pentecostal church.

In my entire lifetime of being in Pentecost, and the majority of that time in the UPC, I have never heard of these kind of "minders," "handlers," or "liaisons." Maybe I'm just an incredibly lucky guy...I've never had or witnessed this phenomenon.

Whew! me either. im 44, been involved in ministery with the UPCI for 20+ years, and never heard of that.

if i showed up to a church and they gave me a "handler" I suspect i would stick around long enough to figure out what they were up to, then blow the lid of the place.


and DUDE the first time i was told to socially "shun" someone there would be a serious dust up.

[RandyWayne]

Whew! me either. im 44, been involved in ministery with the UPCI for 20+ years, and never heard of that.

if i showed up to a church and they gave me a "handler" I suspect i would stick around long enough to figure out what they were up to, then blow the lid of the place.


and DUDE the first time i was told to socially "shun" someone there would be a serious dust up.

I have heard of the whole handler thing several times but I don't believe it was with any churches that were actually in the org itself, rather independent churches.

Now the thing our church DID do was officially practice "shunning" which was almost comical to watch after the fact as some of the mind numb robots who attended would cross the street when they saw you coming or hug the wall of a restaurant as to keep as many compromising feet as possible between their holy bodies and our cursed skin.

And being that this is me, if I did somehow find myself in a church which practiced shepherding to this degree, I would most certainly have some fun with it before leaving. Maybe only a few days or a week or two, but I would get every nickle of entertainment out of it that I could.

[kclee4jc]

In some it goes much deeper than that. :thumbsup

navygoat...i saw a man that looks quite like yourself in WV this weekend? is this possible?

[navygoat1998]

navygoat...i saw a man that looks quite like yourself in WV this weekend? is this possible?
Brother, twas not I. I was in Jacksonville all weekend.