Shekinah and Jesus

[Praxeas]

I can't help but see the similarities between the Jewish concept of Shekina and Jesus.

Shekinah is His Presence. Christ said "Where two or three are...I will be in the midst of you".

Images of Light, Spirit, Word/Memra and Glory are all connected to Shekina and Jesus even Wisdom.

The Shekinah dwelt in the Tabernacle.

Jesus is the Logos "tabernacled among us"...

And yet I have searched google and not found anyone else that teaches this

Here are some quotes on Shekinah

Closely related to the motif of the PRESENCE OF GOD are other motifs: “the angel of the Lord” (cf. Ex. 14:19; 23:20–23; 33:1–3; Isa. 63:9; see ANGEL II.C), the “glory” of the Lord (Ex. 40:34–38; Ezk. 1:28; 10:18f; 11:22f), the “word” (Isa. 55:10f), “wisdom” (Prov. 8), and “Spirit” of the Lord (Ezk. 2:2; 11:24). These reveal God’s presence and the means of His judgment and deliverance.

When Judaism came into contact with Hellenism (3rd cent B.C.), it developed a theological vocabulary. Instead of referring directly to God by His names and titles, it spoke of Him in circumlocutions. The concept of Shekinah proved useful as an in-between way of speaking about God as Spirit, wisdom, the word, etc. In the Jewish Aramaic versions any anthropomorphic expression was a candidate for a paraphrastic rendering; e.g., the Aramaic Targum renders “Yahweh” (“Lord”) or “God” by šeḵînâ, yeqārā˒ (“glory”), and mêmrā˒ (“word”). In Tg Onkelos God’s Shekinah is in the midst of His people: “And they shall make before me a sanctuary and I shall cause my Shekinah to dwell among them” (Ex. 25:8); God reveals Himself to Moses: “And the Lord caused his Shekinah to pass before him” (34:6). Thus the targumist avoids any allusion to God’s direct involvement in human affairs.

In the Mishnah, Midrashim, and Talmud, the Shekinah motif shows a theological rather than an apologetic development. The Shekinah, like the rays of the sun, is at many places at the same time (T.B. Sanhedrin 39a) and more present at some places than others. This explains Yahweh’s special presence at the burning bush, Mt. Sinai, the tabernacle, and the temple. The analogy also clarifies Israel’s special status, since the Shekinah was more real to the Israelites than to the Gentiles (T.B. Berakoth 7a; Shabbath 22b; Midr Nu. Rabbah vii.8) even after they had gone into exile (T.B. Megillah 29a). Moreover, the radiance of the Shekinah is more authentic wherever anyone practices the law of God (T.B. Menahoth 43b), or good works (T.B. Baba Bathra 10a) or is in need of the divine presence (T.B. Shabbath 12b; Sotah 17a). The Shekinah resists the proud, rebellious, sinful, and lazy (T.B. Berakoth 43b; Hagigah 16a; Shabbath 30b; Sotah 42a), but rests in large measure on the saintly, wise, leaders, affluent (!), and outstanding Jews (T.B. Shabbath 92a; Sotah 48b; Sukkah 28). Even the proselytes could find a special place (T.B. Shabbath 31a). Related designations of the Shekinah are “the Word” (mêmrā˒), “the Spirit,” “the Glory,” “the Light,” and “the wings of the Shekinah.” From the Tannaitic and Amoraic literature it is apparent that these designations of the Shekinah refer to none other than the Lord. As Urbach has observed, “a survey of all the passages referring to the Shekina leaves no doubt that the Shekina is no ‘hypostasis’ and has no separate existence alongside the Deity” (p. 63).


. Vol. 4: The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Revised. 1979–1988 (G. W. Bromiley, Ed.) (467). Wm. B. Eerdmans.

Compare

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men.

Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life--
1Jn 1:2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us--
1Jn 1:3 that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.
1Jn 1:4 And we are writing these things so that our joy may be complete.
1Jn 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Tit 2:13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

Joh 3:19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their deeds were evil.

Joh 8:12 Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

Joh 9:5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world."

Heb 1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.
Heb 1:3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

[renee819]

Praxaes, that makes for a great Bible study.

I too have wondered about the "Shekinah" but haven't done much study on it.
When I get a new printer, I will print that out for future study.

[Michael The Disciple]

This was my attempt at presenting this truth.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=20514

[Revelationist]

The Jueist Kabola has information on the Shekinah. The Shekinah was the mother of God. And the would pray to her so they didn't have to face God.

[Truthseeker]

Isn't Shekinah some female goddess? I know would is not on bible that I know of.

[renee819]

This was my attempt at presenting this truth.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=20514

Michael, I went to the Post. That is a wonderful study. My next study.

[Evang.Benincasa]

The Jueist Kabola has information on the Shekinah. The Shekinah was the mother of God. And the would pray to her so they didn't have to face God.

Have any information concerning the above?

[Revelationist]

Have any information concerning the above?


You can find one online and read it for yourself. That's what I did.

[Praxeas]

The Jueist Kabola has information on the Shekinah. The Shekinah was the mother of God. And the would pray to her so they didn't have to face God.
I google that term and got nothing.

This topic pertains to how shekinah refers to the Presence of God. Here is, again, the information



SHEKINAH shə-kīʹnə [Heb šeḵînâ—‘dwelling’]. A circum-locution used in rabbinic literature to signify God’s presence. In reaction to Hellenism and paganism, Judaism attempted on the one hand to preserve the biblical notion of God’s presence while on the other hand emphasizing the vast gulf between the deity and mankind.

Although the word “Shekinah” does not occur in the Bible, the root škn occurs not only in the verb (“dwell”), but also in the noun miškān (“dwelling place,” “tabernacle”) and the name Shecaniah (“Yahweh dwells”; e.g., 1 Ch. 3:21f). The promise that God would dwell with mankind goes back to Noah’s blessing in Gen. 9:27: “God enlarge Japheth, may he [God] dwell in the tents of Shem” (cf. RSV “and let him [Japheth] dwell …”). The Aramaic Tg Onkelos renders this verse: “He will cause his Shekinah to dwell in the dwelling-place of Shem.”

Many passages in the Pentateuch affirm that the Lord came to dwell among His people Israel. First He revealed His glory-cloud (Ex. 13:21f), which represented His presence and protection in the wilderness (see PILLAR OF CLOUD AND PILLAR OF FIRE). The cloud came to rest at Mt. Sinai and formed a canopy for Moses as he communed with Yahweh and received the commandments (cf. 24:15–18). The purpose of the revelation about the construction of the TABERNACLE and the commencement of the priestly service (chs 25–31) was to ensure that Israel might be blessed by the divine presence in its midst: “And let them make a sanctuary, that I may dwell in their midst. According to all that I show you concerning the pattern of the tabernacle, and all of its furniture, so you shall make it” (25:8f). The divine presence was a guarantee of the covenant: “And I will dwell among the people of Israel, and will be their God. And they shall know that I am the Lord their God, who brought them forth out of the land of Egypt that I might dwell among them; I am the Lord their God” (29:45f; cf. Lev. 26:11f). Only the concept of Shekinah can explain the details of Israel’s cultic, moral, and civil laws. By these means God taught Israel how to live as a holy and clean people in His presence (cf. Nu. 5:3).

When the “tabernacle” (miškān) of the Lord was completed, it was crowned with the descent of the glory-cloud. The Pentateuch stresses that all Israel saw the cloud covering the tabernacle as evidence of the presence of the Lord’s glory (Ex. 40:34–38; Lev. 9:23f). Israel believed that the divine presence was particularly associated with the Most Holy Place, where Yahweh dwelt between the cherubim above the ark (1 S. 4:4; 2 S. 6:2; Ps. 80:1 [MT 2]; see ARK OF THE COVENANT VI). The Shekinah signified God’s presence and protection; thus when the ark was carried forward an early war hymn exclaimed, “Arise, O Lord and let thy enemies be scattered; and let them that hate thee flee before thee”; and when it rested the response was, “Return, O Lord, to the ten thousand thousands of Israel” (Nu. 10:35f). Later in Israel’s history the location of the ark signified the place of the divine Shekinah — first at Shiloh (1 S. 4:4) and later in Jerusalem (2 S. 6:12–19). Yahweh revealed His glorious presence again through a cloud at the dedication of the Solomonic TEMPLE (1 K. 8:10f). Upon this occasion Solomon declared, “The Lord has set the sun in the heavens, but has said that he would dwell in thick darkness. I have built thee an exalted house, a place for thee to dwell in for ever” (1 K. 8:12f).

Closely related to the motif of the PRESENCE OF GOD are other motifs: “the angel of the Lord” (cf. Ex. 14:19; 23:20–23; 33:1–3; Isa. 63:9; see ANGEL II.C), the “glory” of the Lord (Ex. 40:34–38; Ezk. 1:28; 10:18f; 11:22f), the “word” (Isa. 55:10f), “wisdom” (Prov. 8), and “Spirit” of the Lord (Ezk. 2:2; 11:24). These reveal God’s presence and the means of His judgment and deliverance.
When Judaism came into contact with Hellenism (3rd cent B.C.), it developed a theological vocabulary. Instead of referring directly to God by His names and titles, it spoke of Him in circumlocutions. The concept of Shekinah proved useful as an in-between way of speaking about God as Spirit, wisdom, the word, etc. In the Jewish Aramaic versions any anthropomorphic expression was a candidate for a paraphrastic rendering; e.g., the Aramaic Targum renders “Yahweh” (“Lord”) or “God” by šeḵînâ, yeqārā˒ (“glory”), and mêmrā˒ (“word”). In Tg Onkelos God’s Shekinah is in the midst of His people: “And they shall make before me a sanctuary and I shall cause my Shekinah to dwell among them” (Ex. 25:8); God reveals Himself to Moses: “And the Lord caused his Shekinah to pass before him” (34:6). Thus the targumist avoids any allusion to God’s direct involvement in human affairs.

In the Mishnah, Midrashim, and Talmud, the Shekinah motif shows a theological rather than an apologetic development. The Shekinah, like the rays of the sun, is at many places at the same time (T.B. Sanhedrin 39a) and more present at some places than others. This explains Yahweh’s special presence at the burning bush, Mt. Sinai, the tabernacle, and the temple. The analogy also clarifies Israel’s special status, since the Shekinah was more real to the Israelites than to the Gentiles (T.B. Berakoth 7a; Shabbath 22b; Midr Nu. Rabbah vii.8) even after they had gone into exile (T.B. Megillah 29a). Moreover, the radiance of the Shekinah is more authentic wherever anyone practices the law of God (T.B. Menahoth 43b), or good works (T.B. Baba Bathra 10a) or is in need of the divine presence (T.B. Shabbath 12b; Sotah 17a). The Shekinah resists the proud, rebellious, sinful, and lazy (T.B. Berakoth 43b; Hagigah 16a; Shabbath 30b; Sotah 42a), but rests in large measure on the saintly, wise, leaders, affluent (!), and outstanding Jews (T.B. Shabbath 92a; Sotah 48b; Sukkah 28). Even the proselytes could find a special place (T.B. Shabbath 31a). Related designations of the Shekinah are “the Word” (mêmrā˒), “the Spirit,” “the Glory,” “the Light,” and “the wings of the Shekinah.” From the Tannaitic and Amoraic literature it is apparent that these designations of the Shekinah refer to none other than the Lord. As Urbach has observed, “a survey of all the passages referring to the Shekina leaves no doubt that the Shekina is no ‘hypostasis’ and has no separate existence alongside the Deity” (p. 63).


. Vol. 4: The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Revised. 1979–1988 (G. W. Bromiley, Ed.) (466–467). Wm. B. Eerdmans.

[Praxeas]

Isn't Shekinah some female goddess? I know would is not on bible that I know of.
Read what I posted.

Shekinah is a word that refers to God's Presence here on earth, the "Glory Cloud". Don't confuse that with what some Pagans did later on with the term.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Read what I posted.

Shekinah is a word that refers to God's Presence here on earth, the "Glory Cloud". Don't confuse that with what some Pagans did later on with the term.

What Pagans?

[Evang.Benincasa]

You can find one online and read it for yourself. That's what I did.

Ok, what I'm asking is, what did YOU find when YOU searched online CONCERNING what you previously posted?

[Praxeas]

What Pagans?
Obviously the ones that use the term as part of their religion.

[Praxeas]

I google that term and got nothing.

This topic pertains to how shekinah refers to the Presence of God. Here is, again, the information



SHEKINAH shə-kīʹnə [Heb šeḵînâ—‘dwelling’]. A circum-locution used in rabbinic literature to signify God’s presence. In reaction to Hellenism and paganism, Judaism attempted on the one hand to preserve the biblical notion of God’s presence while on the other hand emphasizing the vast gulf between the deity and mankind.

Although the word “Shekinah” does not occur in the Bible, the root škn occurs not only in the verb (“dwell”), but also in the noun miškān (“dwelling place,” “tabernacle”) and the name Shecaniah (“Yahweh dwells”; e.g., 1 Ch. 3:21f). The promise that God would dwell with mankind goes back to Noah’s blessing in Gen. 9:27: “God enlarge Japheth, may he [God] dwell in the tents of Shem” (cf. RSV “and let him [Japheth] dwell …”). The Aramaic Tg Onkelos renders this verse: “He will cause his Shekinah to dwell in the dwelling-place of Shem.”

Many passages in the Pentateuch affirm that the Lord came to dwell among His people Israel. First He revealed His glory-cloud (Ex. 13:21f), which represented His presence and protection in the wilderness (see PILLAR OF CLOUD AND PILLAR OF FIRE). The cloud came to rest at Mt. Sinai and formed a canopy for Moses as he communed with Yahweh and received the commandments (cf. 24:15–18). The purpose of the revelation about the construction of the TABERNACLE and the commencement of the priestly service (chs 25–31) was to ensure that Israel might be blessed by the divine presence in its midst: “And let them make a sanctuary, that I may dwell in their midst. According to all that I show you concerning the pattern of the tabernacle, and all of its furniture, so you shall make it” (25:8f). The divine presence was a guarantee of the covenant: “And I will dwell among the people of Israel, and will be their God. And they shall know that I am the Lord their God, who brought them forth out of the land of Egypt that I might dwell among them; I am the Lord their God” (29:45f; cf. Lev. 26:11f). Only the concept of Shekinah can explain the details of Israel’s cultic, moral, and civil laws. By these means God taught Israel how to live as a holy and clean people in His presence (cf. Nu. 5:3).

When the “tabernacle” (miškān) of the Lord was completed, it was crowned with the descent of the glory-cloud. The Pentateuch stresses that all Israel saw the cloud covering the tabernacle as evidence of the presence of the Lord’s glory (Ex. 40:34–38; Lev. 9:23f). Israel believed that the divine presence was particularly associated with the Most Holy Place, where Yahweh dwelt between the cherubim above the ark (1 S. 4:4; 2 S. 6:2; Ps. 80:1 [MT 2]; see ARK OF THE COVENANT VI). The Shekinah signified God’s presence and protection; thus when the ark was carried forward an early war hymn exclaimed, “Arise, O Lord and let thy enemies be scattered; and let them that hate thee flee before thee”; and when it rested the response was, “Return, O Lord, to the ten thousand thousands of Israel” (Nu. 10:35f). Later in Israel’s history the location of the ark signified the place of the divine Shekinah — first at Shiloh (1 S. 4:4) and later in Jerusalem (2 S. 6:12–19). Yahweh revealed His glorious presence again through a cloud at the dedication of the Solomonic TEMPLE (1 K. 8:10f). Upon this occasion Solomon declared, “The Lord has set the sun in the heavens, but has said that he would dwell in thick darkness. I have built thee an exalted house, a place for thee to dwell in for ever” (1 K. 8:12f).

Closely related to the motif of the PRESENCE OF GOD are other motifs: “the angel of the Lord” (cf. Ex. 14:19; 23:20–23; 33:1–3; Isa. 63:9; see ANGEL II.C), the “glory” of the Lord (Ex. 40:34–38; Ezk. 1:28; 10:18f; 11:22f), the “word” (Isa. 55:10f), “wisdom” (Prov. 8), and “Spirit” of the Lord (Ezk. 2:2; 11:24). These reveal God’s presence and the means of His judgment and deliverance.
When Judaism came into contact with Hellenism (3rd cent B.C.), it developed a theological vocabulary. Instead of referring directly to God by His names and titles, it spoke of Him in circumlocutions. The concept of Shekinah proved useful as an in-between way of speaking about God as Spirit, wisdom, the word, etc. In the Jewish Aramaic versions any anthropomorphic expression was a candidate for a paraphrastic rendering; e.g., the Aramaic Targum renders “Yahweh” (“Lord”) or “God” by šeḵînâ, yeqārā˒ (“glory”), and mêmrā˒ (“word”). In Tg Onkelos God’s Shekinah is in the midst of His people: “And they shall make before me a sanctuary and I shall cause my Shekinah to dwell among them” (Ex. 25:8); God reveals Himself to Moses: “And the Lord caused his Shekinah to pass before him” (34:6). Thus the targumist avoids any allusion to God’s direct involvement in human affairs.

In the Mishnah, Midrashim, and Talmud, the Shekinah motif shows a theological rather than an apologetic development. The Shekinah, like the rays of the sun, is at many places at the same time (T.B. Sanhedrin 39a) and more present at some places than others. This explains Yahweh’s special presence at the burning bush, Mt. Sinai, the tabernacle, and the temple. The analogy also clarifies Israel’s special status, since the Shekinah was more real to the Israelites than to the Gentiles (T.B. Berakoth 7a; Shabbath 22b; Midr Nu. Rabbah vii.8) even after they had gone into exile (T.B. Megillah 29a). Moreover, the radiance of the Shekinah is more authentic wherever anyone practices the law of God (T.B. Menahoth 43b), or good works (T.B. Baba Bathra 10a) or is in need of the divine presence (T.B. Shabbath 12b; Sotah 17a). The Shekinah resists the proud, rebellious, sinful, and lazy (T.B. Berakoth 43b; Hagigah 16a; Shabbath 30b; Sotah 42a), but rests in large measure on the saintly, wise, leaders, affluent (!), and outstanding Jews (T.B. Shabbath 92a; Sotah 48b; Sukkah 28). Even the proselytes could find a special place (T.B. Shabbath 31a). Related designations of the Shekinah are “the Word” (mêmrā˒), “the Spirit,” “the Glory,” “the Light,” and “the wings of the Shekinah.” From the Tannaitic and Amoraic literature it is apparent that these designations of the Shekinah refer to none other than the Lord. As Urbach has observed, “a survey of all the passages referring to the Shekina leaves no doubt that the Shekina is no ‘hypostasis’ and has no separate existence alongside the Deity” (p. 63).


. Vol. 4: The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Revised. 1979–1988 (G. W. Bromiley, Ed.) (466–467). Wm. B. Eerdmans.
This is the topic, Not paganism or someone's twisted version of goddess mother. Please don't hijack my topic. Thanks

[Evang.Benincasa]

This is the topic, Not paganism or someone's twisted version of goddess mother. Please don't hijack my topic. Thanks

Well, really not looking to hijack your thread's topic. Just asking you quickly to qualify your comment. Was it pagans (Gentile/Non-Jews) who corrupted the use of Shekinah?

Just asking. :)

[Evang.Benincasa]

Obviously the ones that use the term as part of their religion.

Is it obvious?

All I was asking is that you quickly explain how the "pagans" twisted the meaning of "Shekinah?"

[houston]

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=36987

[Revelationist]

This is the topic, Not paganism or someone's twisted version of goddess mother. Please don't hijack my topic. Thanks

Where is the term in the Bible?

[Praxeas]

Where is the term in the Bible?
No where. Why is that relevant?

The topic isnt "where in the bible is this word?"

[Praxeas]

I google that term and got nothing.

This topic pertains to how shekinah refers to the Presence of God. Here is, again, the information



SHEKINAH shə-kīʹnə [Heb šeḵînâ—‘dwelling’]. A circum-locution used in rabbinic literature to signify God’s presence. In reaction to Hellenism and paganism, Judaism attempted on the one hand to preserve the biblical notion of God’s presence while on the other hand emphasizing the vast gulf between the deity and mankind.

Although the word “Shekinah” does not occur in the Bible, the root škn occurs not only in the verb (“dwell”), but also in the noun miškān (“dwelling place,” “tabernacle”) and the name Shecaniah (“Yahweh dwells”; e.g., 1 Ch. 3:21f). The promise that God would dwell with mankind goes back to Noah’s blessing in Gen. 9:27: “God enlarge Japheth, may he [God] dwell in the tents of Shem” (cf. RSV “and let him [Japheth] dwell …”). The Aramaic Tg Onkelos renders this verse: “He will cause his Shekinah to dwell in the dwelling-place of Shem.”

Many passages in the Pentateuch affirm that the Lord came to dwell among His people Israel. First He revealed His glory-cloud (Ex. 13:21f), which represented His presence and protection in the wilderness (see PILLAR OF CLOUD AND PILLAR OF FIRE). The cloud came to rest at Mt. Sinai and formed a canopy for Moses as he communed with Yahweh and received the commandments (cf. 24:15–18). The purpose of the revelation about the construction of the TABERNACLE and the commencement of the priestly service (chs 25–31) was to ensure that Israel might be blessed by the divine presence in its midst: “And let them make a sanctuary, that I may dwell in their midst. According to all that I show you concerning the pattern of the tabernacle, and all of its furniture, so you shall make it” (25:8f). The divine presence was a guarantee of the covenant: “And I will dwell among the people of Israel, and will be their God. And they shall know that I am the Lord their God, who brought them forth out of the land of Egypt that I might dwell among them; I am the Lord their God” (29:45f; cf. Lev. 26:11f). Only the concept of Shekinah can explain the details of Israel’s cultic, moral, and civil laws. By these means God taught Israel how to live as a holy and clean people in His presence (cf. Nu. 5:3).

When the “tabernacle” (miškān) of the Lord was completed, it was crowned with the descent of the glory-cloud. The Pentateuch stresses that all Israel saw the cloud covering the tabernacle as evidence of the presence of the Lord’s glory (Ex. 40:34–38; Lev. 9:23f). Israel believed that the divine presence was particularly associated with the Most Holy Place, where Yahweh dwelt between the cherubim above the ark (1 S. 4:4; 2 S. 6:2; Ps. 80:1 [MT 2]; see ARK OF THE COVENANT VI). The Shekinah signified God’s presence and protection; thus when the ark was carried forward an early war hymn exclaimed, “Arise, O Lord and let thy enemies be scattered; and let them that hate thee flee before thee”; and when it rested the response was, “Return, O Lord, to the ten thousand thousands of Israel” (Nu. 10:35f). Later in Israel’s history the location of the ark signified the place of the divine Shekinah — first at Shiloh (1 S. 4:4) and later in Jerusalem (2 S. 6:12–19). Yahweh revealed His glorious presence again through a cloud at the dedication of the Solomonic TEMPLE (1 K. 8:10f). Upon this occasion Solomon declared, “The Lord has set the sun in the heavens, but has said that he would dwell in thick darkness. I have built thee an exalted house, a place for thee to dwell in for ever” (1 K. 8:12f).

Closely related to the motif of the PRESENCE OF GOD are other motifs: “the angel of the Lord” (cf. Ex. 14:19; 23:20–23; 33:1–3; Isa. 63:9; see ANGEL II.C), the “glory” of the Lord (Ex. 40:34–38; Ezk. 1:28; 10:18f; 11:22f), the “word” (Isa. 55:10f), “wisdom” (Prov. 8), and “Spirit” of the Lord (Ezk. 2:2; 11:24). These reveal God’s presence and the means of His judgment and deliverance.
When Judaism came into contact with Hellenism (3rd cent B.C.), it developed a theological vocabulary. Instead of referring directly to God by His names and titles, it spoke of Him in circumlocutions. The concept of Shekinah proved useful as an in-between way of speaking about God as Spirit, wisdom, the word, etc. In the Jewish Aramaic versions any anthropomorphic expression was a candidate for a paraphrastic rendering; e.g., the Aramaic Targum renders “Yahweh” (“Lord”) or “God” by šeḵînâ, yeqārā˒ (“glory”), and mêmrā˒ (“word”). In Tg Onkelos God’s Shekinah is in the midst of His people: “And they shall make before me a sanctuary and I shall cause my Shekinah to dwell among them” (Ex. 25:8); God reveals Himself to Moses: “And the Lord caused his Shekinah to pass before him” (34:6). Thus the targumist avoids any allusion to God’s direct involvement in human affairs.

In the Mishnah, Midrashim, and Talmud, the Shekinah motif shows a theological rather than an apologetic development. The Shekinah, like the rays of the sun, is at many places at the same time (T.B. Sanhedrin 39a) and more present at some places than others. This explains Yahweh’s special presence at the burning bush, Mt. Sinai, the tabernacle, and the temple. The analogy also clarifies Israel’s special status, since the Shekinah was more real to the Israelites than to the Gentiles (T.B. Berakoth 7a; Shabbath 22b; Midr Nu. Rabbah vii.8) even after they had gone into exile (T.B. Megillah 29a). Moreover, the radiance of the Shekinah is more authentic wherever anyone practices the law of God (T.B. Menahoth 43b), or good works (T.B. Baba Bathra 10a) or is in need of the divine presence (T.B. Shabbath 12b; Sotah 17a). The Shekinah resists the proud, rebellious, sinful, and lazy (T.B. Berakoth 43b; Hagigah 16a; Shabbath 30b; Sotah 42a), but rests in large measure on the saintly, wise, leaders, affluent (!), and outstanding Jews (T.B. Shabbath 92a; Sotah 48b; Sukkah 28). Even the proselytes could find a special place (T.B. Shabbath 31a). Related designations of the Shekinah are “the Word” (mêmrā˒), “the Spirit,” “the Glory,” “the Light,” and “the wings of the Shekinah.” From the Tannaitic and Amoraic literature it is apparent that these designations of the Shekinah refer to none other than the Lord. As Urbach has observed, “a survey of all the passages referring to the Shekina leaves no doubt that the Shekina is no ‘hypostasis’ and has no separate existence alongside the Deity” (p. 63).


. Vol. 4: The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Revised. 1979–1988 (G. W. Bromiley, Ed.) (466–467). Wm. B. Eerdmans.
For the third time. Please read this :-)

[Revelationist]

No where. Why is that relevant?

The topic isnt "where in the bible is this word?"

I'm sorry, I assumed it was a Biblical discussion. I didn't realize it was just secular.

[Praxeas]

I'm sorry, I assumed it was a Biblical discussion. I didn't realize it was just secular.

It is a biblical discussion. What does that have to do with whether or not a word is in the bible?

Biblical is not in the bible either.

I ask again...did you read what I posted? Here I will repost it again....see next post

[Praxeas]

I google that term and got nothing.

This topic pertains to how shekinah refers to the Presence of God. Here is, again, the information



SHEKINAH shə-kīʹnə [Heb šeḵînâ—‘dwelling’]. A circum-locution used in rabbinic literature to signify God’s presence. In reaction to Hellenism and paganism, Judaism attempted on the one hand to preserve the biblical notion of God’s presence while on the other hand emphasizing the vast gulf between the deity and mankind.

Although the word “Shekinah” does not occur in the Bible, the root škn occurs not only in the verb (“dwell”), but also in the noun miškān (“dwelling place,” “tabernacle”) and the name Shecaniah (“Yahweh dwells”; e.g., 1 Ch. 3:21f). The promise that God would dwell with mankind goes back to Noah’s blessing in Gen. 9:27: “God enlarge Japheth, may he [God] dwell in the tents of Shem” (cf. RSV “and let him [Japheth] dwell …”). The Aramaic Tg Onkelos renders this verse: “He will cause his Shekinah to dwell in the dwelling-place of Shem.”

Many passages in the Pentateuch affirm that the Lord came to dwell among His people Israel. First He revealed His glory-cloud (Ex. 13:21f), which represented His presence and protection in the wilderness (see PILLAR OF CLOUD AND PILLAR OF FIRE). The cloud came to rest at Mt. Sinai and formed a canopy for Moses as he communed with Yahweh and received the commandments (cf. 24:15–18). The purpose of the revelation about the construction of the TABERNACLE and the commencement of the priestly service (chs 25–31) was to ensure that Israel might be blessed by the divine presence in its midst: “And let them make a sanctuary, that I may dwell in their midst. According to all that I show you concerning the pattern of the tabernacle, and all of its furniture, so you shall make it” (25:8f). The divine presence was a guarantee of the covenant: “And I will dwell among the people of Israel, and will be their God. And they shall know that I am the Lord their God, who brought them forth out of the land of Egypt that I might dwell among them; I am the Lord their God” (29:45f; cf. Lev. 26:11f). Only the concept of Shekinah can explain the details of Israel’s cultic, moral, and civil laws. By these means God taught Israel how to live as a holy and clean people in His presence (cf. Nu. 5:3).

When the “tabernacle” (miškān) of the Lord was completed, it was crowned with the descent of the glory-cloud. The Pentateuch stresses that all Israel saw the cloud covering the tabernacle as evidence of the presence of the Lord’s glory (Ex. 40:34–38; Lev. 9:23f). Israel believed that the divine presence was particularly associated with the Most Holy Place, where Yahweh dwelt between the cherubim above the ark (1 S. 4:4; 2 S. 6:2; Ps. 80:1 [MT 2]; see ARK OF THE COVENANT VI). The Shekinah signified God’s presence and protection; thus when the ark was carried forward an early war hymn exclaimed, “Arise, O Lord and let thy enemies be scattered; and let them that hate thee flee before thee”; and when it rested the response was, “Return, O Lord, to the ten thousand thousands of Israel” (Nu. 10:35f). Later in Israel’s history the location of the ark signified the place of the divine Shekinah — first at Shiloh (1 S. 4:4) and later in Jerusalem (2 S. 6:12–19). Yahweh revealed His glorious presence again through a cloud at the dedication of the Solomonic TEMPLE (1 K. 8:10f). Upon this occasion Solomon declared, “The Lord has set the sun in the heavens, but has said that he would dwell in thick darkness. I have built thee an exalted house, a place for thee to dwell in for ever” (1 K. 8:12f).

Closely related to the motif of the PRESENCE OF GOD are other motifs: “the angel of the Lord” (cf. Ex. 14:19; 23:20–23; 33:1–3; Isa. 63:9; see ANGEL II.C), the “glory” of the Lord (Ex. 40:34–38; Ezk. 1:28; 10:18f; 11:22f), the “word” (Isa. 55:10f), “wisdom” (Prov. 8), and “Spirit” of the Lord (Ezk. 2:2; 11:24). These reveal God’s presence and the means of His judgment and deliverance.
When Judaism came into contact with Hellenism (3rd cent B.C.), it developed a theological vocabulary. Instead of referring directly to God by His names and titles, it spoke of Him in circumlocutions. The concept of Shekinah proved useful as an in-between way of speaking about God as Spirit, wisdom, the word, etc. In the Jewish Aramaic versions any anthropomorphic expression was a candidate for a paraphrastic rendering; e.g., the Aramaic Targum renders “Yahweh” (“Lord”) or “God” by šeḵînâ, yeqārā˒ (“glory”), and mêmrā˒ (“word”). In Tg Onkelos God’s Shekinah is in the midst of His people: “And they shall make before me a sanctuary and I shall cause my Shekinah to dwell among them” (Ex. 25:8); God reveals Himself to Moses: “And the Lord caused his Shekinah to pass before him” (34:6). Thus the targumist avoids any allusion to God’s direct involvement in human affairs.

In the Mishnah, Midrashim, and Talmud, the Shekinah motif shows a theological rather than an apologetic development. The Shekinah, like the rays of the sun, is at many places at the same time (T.B. Sanhedrin 39a) and more present at some places than others. This explains Yahweh’s special presence at the burning bush, Mt. Sinai, the tabernacle, and the temple. The analogy also clarifies Israel’s special status, since the Shekinah was more real to the Israelites than to the Gentiles (T.B. Berakoth 7a; Shabbath 22b; Midr Nu. Rabbah vii.8) even after they had gone into exile (T.B. Megillah 29a). Moreover, the radiance of the Shekinah is more authentic wherever anyone practices the law of God (T.B. Menahoth 43b), or good works (T.B. Baba Bathra 10a) or is in need of the divine presence (T.B. Shabbath 12b; Sotah 17a). The Shekinah resists the proud, rebellious, sinful, and lazy (T.B. Berakoth 43b; Hagigah 16a; Shabbath 30b; Sotah 42a), but rests in large measure on the saintly, wise, leaders, affluent (!), and outstanding Jews (T.B. Shabbath 92a; Sotah 48b; Sukkah 28). Even the proselytes could find a special place (T.B. Shabbath 31a). Related designations of the Shekinah are “the Word” (mêmrā˒), “the Spirit,” “the Glory,” “the Light,” and “the wings of the Shekinah.” From the Tannaitic and Amoraic literature it is apparent that these designations of the Shekinah refer to none other than the Lord. As Urbach has observed, “a survey of all the passages referring to the Shekina leaves no doubt that the Shekina is no ‘hypostasis’ and has no separate existence alongside the Deity” (p. 63).


. Vol. 4: The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Revised. 1979–1988 (G. W. Bromiley, Ed.) (466–467). Wm. B. Eerdmans.
Bump again. Please read

[Praxeas]

Anyone reading what I reposted several times can see the number of scriptures are used for this topic. Its a biblical topic.

Im amazed at how many have logophobia

[Evang.Benincasa]

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=36987

The Divine Feminine?

So how is Jesus like the Divine Feminine? :nah

[houston]

The topic is biblical. The term is not and insisting on its use gives you a bisexual god.

[houston]

The Divine Feminine? So how is Jesus like the Divine Feminine? :nahright.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Anyone reading what I reposted several times can see the number of scriptures are used for this topic. Its a biblical topic.

Im amazed at how many have logophobia

How is it a Biblical topic if the word isn't used in the Bible?

You end your post with information found in the Talmud?

Should Christians use the Talmud to gather teaching?

[Evang.Benincasa]

The topic is biblical. The term is not and insisting on its use gives you a bisexual god.

Yipes!

[Praxeas]

How is it a Biblical topic if the word isn't used in the Bible?

You end your post with information found in the Talmud?

Should Christians use the Talmud to gather teaching?

Did you read what I posted with the scriptures?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Did you read what I posted with the scriptures?

Yes

[Praxeas]

Yes
Good. Now you know, it's a rabbinical term to refer to a BIBLICAL concept. I don't know why that was so difficult.

[Praxeas]

I believe that when we view the NT with a first century Jewish mindset, instead of Greek, it will emphasize a Oneness view of God and enhance it.

Ideas like the Memra, using circumlocutions for God, rabbincal ways of teaching, Wisdom personification etc etc are all used in the NT.

[votivesoul]

Shekinah gets a bad rap because as a word, it is feminine (Hebrew, like Spanish, French, and others) attributes gender to individual words, whether there is any reason or sense behind the assignments.

From this, i.e. from people who don't know enough about the language, they see a feminine gender assigned to the glory of God, and they lose their minds with presumption.

It's similar to the following, from Psalm 34:2:

2. My soul shall make her boast in the Lord: the humble shall hear thereof, and be glad.

The author wasn't a female, and his soul isn't a her. It's just a literal translation since the word here for "soul" has a feminine gender designation.

[Praxeas]

Shekinah gets a bad rap because as a word, it is feminine (Hebrew, like Spanish, French, and others) attributes gender to individual words, whether there is any reason or sense behind the assignments.

From this, i.e. from people who don't know enough about the language, they see a feminine gender assigned to the glory of God, and they lose their minds with presumption.

It's similar to the following, from Psalm 34:2:



The author wasn't a female, and his soul isn't a her. It's just a literal translation since the word here for "soul" has a feminine gender designation.

Yeah, when people really learn language they realize that's wrong thinking.

Church in Greek is Feminine.

Wisdom in Hebrew and Greek is Feminine (Wisdom of God)

Form in Phil (Form of God) is Morphe in Greek...feminine.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Good. Now you know, it's a rabbinical term to refer to a BIBLICAL concept. I don't know why that was so difficult.

How is it a Biblical topic if the word isn't used in the Bible?

You end your post with information found in the Talmud?

Should Christians use the Talmud to gather teaching?

A Rabbinical made up word to describe a Kabbalist concept?

Just like the Trinity is a made up word to describe a Trinitarian concept?

Should Christians use Kabbalistic teachings to prove their doctrines?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Yeah, when people really learn language they realize that's wrong thinking.

Church in Greek is Feminine.

Wisdom in Hebrew and Greek is Feminine (Wisdom of God)

Form in Phil (Form of God) is Morphe in Greek...feminine.

Is that the same as the use of Shekinah in Rabbinical literature?

[Praxeas]

A Rabbinical made up word to describe a Kabbalist concept?

Just like the Trinity is a made up word to describe a Trinitarian concept?

Should Christians use Kabbalistic teachings to prove their doctrines?
If you read the article you must have seen ALL those verses used as reference...and ignored them apparently

You are calling the bible Kabbalistic

ALL words are made up, brother. You can't possibly believe all our words just dropped out of the sky

Talmud is not kabbalah. The Talmud are oral explanations of the Torah, written down.

http://ohr.edu/ask_db/ask_main.php/233/Q3/

The Trinity is not wrong because it's called the Trinity. It's wrong because the bible does not teach the CONCEPT of three persons in One essence.

Fear of words is called Logophobia

Other words found in the Talmud no doubt include Aramaic words for God, Angels, Messiah and a host of others

the word Shekinah comes from a biblical word.

It means DWELLING (Of course if you read what I posted you should know that) and refers specifically to the Presence of God here on earth such as in the temple dedication..is that a kabbalistic cruel joke or did that really happen?

When they were filled with the Spirit in Acts and God's Spirit came to DWELL in man, was that a cruel kabbalistic joke or did that really happen?

Here is what you clearly don't understand. A CIRCUMLOCUTION is a word used to represent another. Jews during the days Jesus was here on earth would not say the name of God. Instead they said Adonia or HaShem.

They would also say MEMRA to refer to God speaking as a CIRCUMLOCUTION instead of saying the name

Our Greek NT follows that pattern in using Ho Kurious instead of the name of God. Ho Kurious is the Greek for Adonai

they also referred to the PRESENCE Of God in Man or here on earth in a circumloction too. They referred to the Presence of God HERE on earth as Skekinah instead of saying "The Presence of Yhwh".

So it's a word that refers to a biblical concept. It is derived from a word found in the bible

--Although the word “Shekinah” does not occur in the Bible, the root škn occurs not only in the verb (“dwell”), but also in the noun miškān (“dwelling place,” “tabernacle”) and the name Shecaniah (“Yahweh dwells”; e.g., 1 Ch. 3:21f). The promise that God would dwell with mankind goes back to Noah’s blessing in Gen. 9:27 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Gen.+9%3A27): “God enlarge Japheth, may he [God] dwell in the tents of Shem” (cf. RSV “and let him [Japheth] dwell …”). The Aramaic Tg Onkelos renders this verse: “He will cause his Shekinah to dwell in the dwelling-place of Shem.”

[Revelationist]

What Bible version do you use to support this teaching?

[Abiding Now]

How is it a Biblical topic if the word isn't used in the Bible?
You end your post with information found in the Talmud?

Should Christians use the Talmud to gather teaching?

Yeah, like Pentecostal, Apostolic, Rapture, Preterist, etc.

:heeheehee

[Revelationist]

I'm thinking if the Apostles didn't need those words to describe what they believed, we shouldn't need them either.

[Esaias]

So we've concluded that Jews use the word 'shekinah' to refer to the presence of God.

And the point of it all is?

[Esaias]

http://www.chabad.org/search/keyword_cdo/kid/2473/jewish/Shechinah-feminine-aspect-of-the-Divine.htm

Question:

Why do we call G‑d "Father" on Rosh Hashanah? Why not "Mother"?

Response:

To the Jewish mind, G‑d is both here and beyond here at once. Philosophers call that immanence and transcendence. Many of them say that He can't do both at once, but we say who are you philosophers to tell G‑d what He can be and what He can't be?

When we refer to G‑d's presence within our world, giving life to all things, then She is the Shechinah. When we refer to G‑d's transcendence beyond this world, we call Him "The Holy One, blessed be He." G‑d does not change or have parts, G‑d forbid. Both are the same one and singular G‑d, just looking at that G‑d from different angles. From one angle you see a modality of being deeply involved and immanently there; from another angle you see Him in a modality of being absolutely beyond all things and transcendent even of existence itself.

In our prayers, we--all of us together as one--take the role of the Shechinah petitioning the Holy One, blessed be He. In a way, G‑d is speaking to Himself. That is why we ask at the beginning of the Amidah, "G‑d, open my lips so that my mouth may speak Your praises." We are asking G‑d to speak to Himself through us. We can't pray to Him as He is the Shechinah because it's His Shechinah that's doing the praying.

Our mitzvahs, study and prayer unite these two aspects of G‑d into a perfect whole. Studying Torah is a way for G‑d's transcendence to enter our world. Our prayers are a way that His presence in our world reaches upward towards transcendence. Each mitzvah in its particular way creates a harmony between the two aspects.

Much of the Zohar is dedicated to illustrating this concept. The prophets also allude to it in their ubiquitous use of the husband/wife metaphor. In many prayer books you will find instructions to say before a certain mitzvah, blessing or prayer, "For the sake of the union of the Holy One, blessed be He, and His Shechinah, in the name of all Israel."

This is also the meaning of the phrase, "On that day, G‑d will be One and His name will be One." Of course, He was already One before the world got started and remained One after creating it. We are talking here of how the created beings of His world tune into that oneness, by discovering a harmony between the two aspects that we have to deal with. G‑d will be One is about how He is way beyond our world extending into how He is present in our world. His name will be One is about how He presents Himself here revealing a harmony with how He is totally beyond.

I better stop before things get totally foncusicated. These are things discussed at length in many profound treatises on Kabbalistic thought. If you want some reading material, let me know and I'll plug you in.

[Esaias]

http://olivebranch.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=generaldoctrine&action=display&thread=350

[Esaias]

http://www.goodreads.com/author_blog_posts/3081399-the-shekinah-trap-how-a-jezebel-spirit-became-the-presence-and-glory-of

[Praxeas]

What Bible version do you use to support this teaching?
Pick one, they all speak of the presence of God here on earth, in the temple, resting on or in man etc etc...Here..I will repost again the verses.....


SHEKINAH shə-kīʹnə [Heb šeḵînâ—‘dwelling’]. A circum-locution used in rabbinic literature to signify God’s presence. In reaction to Hellenism and paganism, Judaism attempted on the one hand to preserve the biblical notion of God’s presence while on the other hand emphasizing the vast gulf between the deity and mankind.

Although the word “Shekinah” does not occur in the Bible, the root škn occurs not only in the verb (“dwell”), but also in the noun miškān (“dwelling place,” “tabernacle”) and the name Shecaniah (“Yahweh dwells”; e.g., 1 Ch. 3:21f). The promise that God would dwell with mankind goes back to Noah’s blessing in Gen. 9:27 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Gen.+9%3A27): “God enlarge Japheth, may he [God] dwell in the tents of Shem” (cf. RSV “and let him [Japheth] dwell …”). The Aramaic Tg Onkelos renders this verse: “He will cause his Shekinah to dwell in the dwelling-place of Shem.”

Many passages in the Pentateuch affirm that the Lord came to dwell among His people Israel. First He revealed His glory-cloud (Ex. 13:21 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Ex.+13%3A21)f), which represented His presence and protection in the wilderness (see PILLAR OF CLOUD AND PILLAR OF FIRE). The cloud came to rest at Mt. Sinai and formed a canopy for Moses as he communed with Yahweh and received the commandments (cf. 24:15–18). The purpose of the revelation about the construction of the TABERNACLE and the commencement of the priestly service (chs 25–31) was to ensure that Israel might be blessed by the divine presence in its midst: “And let them make a sanctuary, that I may dwell in their midst. According to all that I show you concerning the pattern of the tabernacle, and all of its furniture, so you shall make it” (25:8f). The divine presence was a guarantee of the covenant: “And I will dwell among the people of Israel, and will be their God. And they shall know that I am the Lord their God, who brought them forth out of the land of Egypt that I might dwell among them; I am the Lord their God” (29:45f; cf. Lev. 26:11 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Lev.+26%3A11)f). Only the concept of Shekinah can explain the details of Israel’s cultic, moral, and civil laws. By these means God taught Israel how to live as a holy and clean people in His presence (cf. Nu. 5:3).

When the “tabernacle” (miškān) of the Lord was completed, it was crowned with the descent of the glory-cloud. The Pentateuch stresses that all Israel saw the cloud covering the tabernacle as evidence of the presence of the Lord’s glory (Ex. 40:34 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Ex.+40%3A34)–38; Lev. 9:23 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Lev.+9%3A23)f). Israel believed that the divine presence was particularly associated with the Most Holy Place, where Yahweh dwelt between the cherubim above the ark (1 S. 4:4; 2 S. 6:2; Ps. 80:1 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Ps.+80%3A1) [MT 2]; see ARK OF THE COVENANT VI). The Shekinah signified God’s presence and protection; thus when the ark was carried forward an early war hymn exclaimed, “Arise, O Lord and let thy enemies be scattered; and let them that hate thee flee before thee”; and when it rested the response was, “Return, O Lord, to the ten thousand thousands of Israel” (Nu. 10:35f). Later in Israel’s history the location of the ark signified the place of the divine Shekinah — first at Shiloh (1 S. 4:4) and later in Jerusalem (2 S. 6:12–19). Yahweh revealed His glorious presence again through a cloud at the dedication of the Solomonic TEMPLE (1 K. 8:10f). Upon this occasion Solomon declared, “The Lord has set the sun in the heavens, but has said that he would dwell in thick darkness. I have built thee an exalted house, a place for thee to dwell in for ever” (1 K. 8:12f).

Closely related to the motif of the PRESENCE OF GOD are other motifs: “the angel of the Lord” (cf. Ex. 14:19 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Ex.+14%3A19); 23:20–23; 33:1–3; Isa. 63:9 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Isa.+63%3A9); see ANGEL II.C), the “glory” of the Lord (Ex. 40:34 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Ex.+40%3A34)–38; Ezk. 1:28; 10:18f; 11:22f), the “word” (Isa. 55:10 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Isa.+55%3A10)f), “wisdom” (Prov. 8 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Prov.+8)), and “Spirit” of the Lord (Ezk. 2:2; 11:24). These reveal God’s presence and the means of His judgment and deliverance.

[Praxeas]

I'm thinking if the Apostles didn't need those words to describe what they believed, we shouldn't need them either.
Why? Did the Apostles speak english too? Did the people they spoke to speak English?

They communicated to people in a way THOSE PEOPLE would understand. We should do the same.

BTW Biblical is not biblical so don't use that word either...but I will continue to use it

[Praxeas]

I can't help but see the similarities between the Jewish concept of Shekina and Jesus.

Shekinah is His Presence. Christ said "Where two or three are...I will be in the midst of you".

Images of Light, Spirit, Word/Memra and Glory are all connected to Shekina and Jesus even Wisdom.

The Shekinah dwelt in the Tabernacle.

Jesus is the Logos "tabernacled among us"...

And yet I have searched google and not found anyone else that teaches this

Here are some quotes on Shekinah

Closely related to the motif of the PRESENCE OF GOD are other motifs: “the angel of the Lord” (cf. Ex. 14:19; 23:20–23; 33:1–3; Isa. 63:9; see ANGEL II.C), the “glory” of the Lord (Ex. 40:34–38; Ezk. 1:28; 10:18f; 11:22f), the “word” (Isa. 55:10f), “wisdom” (Prov. 8), and “Spirit” of the Lord (Ezk. 2:2; 11:24). These reveal God’s presence and the means of His judgment and deliverance.

When Judaism came into contact with Hellenism (3rd cent B.C.), it developed a theological vocabulary. Instead of referring directly to God by His names and titles, it spoke of Him in circumlocutions. The concept of Shekinah proved useful as an in-between way of speaking about God as Spirit, wisdom, the word, etc. In the Jewish Aramaic versions any anthropomorphic expression was a candidate for a paraphrastic rendering; e.g., the Aramaic Targum renders “Yahweh” (“Lord”) or “God” by šeḵînâ, yeqārā˒ (“glory”), and mêmrā˒ (“word”). In Tg Onkelos God’s Shekinah is in the midst of His people: “And they shall make before me a sanctuary and I shall cause my Shekinah to dwell among them” (Ex. 25:8); God reveals Himself to Moses: “And the Lord caused his Shekinah to pass before him” (34:6). Thus the targumist avoids any allusion to God’s direct involvement in human affairs.

In the Mishnah, Midrashim, and Talmud, the Shekinah motif shows a theological rather than an apologetic development. The Shekinah, like the rays of the sun, is at many places at the same time (T.B. Sanhedrin 39a) and more present at some places than others. This explains Yahweh’s special presence at the burning bush, Mt. Sinai, the tabernacle, and the temple. The analogy also clarifies Israel’s special status, since the Shekinah was more real to the Israelites than to the Gentiles (T.B. Berakoth 7a; Shabbath 22b; Midr Nu. Rabbah vii.8) even after they had gone into exile (T.B. Megillah 29a). Moreover, the radiance of the Shekinah is more authentic wherever anyone practices the law of God (T.B. Menahoth 43b), or good works (T.B. Baba Bathra 10a) or is in need of the divine presence (T.B. Shabbath 12b; Sotah 17a). The Shekinah resists the proud, rebellious, sinful, and lazy (T.B. Berakoth 43b; Hagigah 16a; Shabbath 30b; Sotah 42a), but rests in large measure on the saintly, wise, leaders, affluent (!), and outstanding Jews (T.B. Shabbath 92a; Sotah 48b; Sukkah 28). Even the proselytes could find a special place (T.B. Shabbath 31a). Related designations of the Shekinah are “the Word” (mêmrā˒), “the Spirit,” “the Glory,” “the Light,” and “the wings of the Shekinah.” From the Tannaitic and Amoraic literature it is apparent that these designations of the Shekinah refer to none other than the Lord. As Urbach has observed, “a survey of all the passages referring to the Shekina leaves no doubt that the Shekina is no ‘hypostasis’ and has no separate existence alongside the Deity” (p. 63).


. Vol. 4: The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Revised. 1979–1988 (G. W. Bromiley, Ed.) (467). Wm. B. Eerdmans.

Compare

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men.

Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life--
1Jn 1:2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us--
1Jn 1:3 that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.
1Jn 1:4 And we are writing these things so that our joy may be complete.
1Jn 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Tit 2:13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

Joh 3:19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their deeds were evil.

Joh 8:12 Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

Joh 9:5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world."

Heb 1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.
Heb 1:3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

So we've concluded that Jews use the word 'shekinah' to refer to the presence of God.

And the point of it all is?
See the topic

[Esaias]

http://byhisspirit.info/shekinah-hoax/

[Esaias]

See the topic

I did. And it looks like you are just trying to find some 'new thing' here??

The 'shekinah' concept is a kabbalistic doctrine (set of doctrines, actually), whereas the 'Jesus' concept is a bible doctrine (set of doctrines, actually).

Give no heed to Jewish fables.

[Praxeas]

Here is what the topic never was..

It was NEVER about the Kabbalah despite others trying to change the topic to that.

It was NEVER about how Jews today use the term.

It was ONLY about how the term and the CONCEPT was used in second temple Judaism in and around the time Jesus was here on earth to refer to God's Presence here on earth such as in the Temple dedication.

It's about how a Transcendent God interacts within Creation.

Deu 5:24 You said, "The Lord our God has shown us his great glory and we have heard him speak from the middle of the fire. It is now clear to us that God can speak to human beings and they can keep on living.

1Sa 4:22 She said, "The glory has departed from Israel, because the ark of God has been captured."

1Ki 8:10 And when the priests came out of the Holy Place, a cloud filled the house of the LORD,
1Ki 8:11 so that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud, for the glory of the LORD filled the house of the LORD.
1Ki 8:12 Then Solomon said, "The LORD has said that he would dwell in thick darkness.
1Ki 8:13 I have indeed built you an exalted house, a place for you to dwell in forever."

And comparing that to Jesus being God's visible presence

[Evang.Benincasa]

I did. And it looks like you are just trying to find some 'new thing' here??

The 'shekinah' concept is a kabbalistic doctrine (set of doctrines, actually), whereas the 'Jesus' concept is a bible doctrine (set of doctrines, actually).

Give no heed to Jewish fables.

:highfive

[Evang.Benincasa]

Why? Did the Apostles speak english too? Did the people they spoke to speak English?

They communicated to people in a way THOSE PEOPLE would understand. We should do the same.

BTW Biblical is not biblical so don't use that word either...but I will continue to use it

Obfuscating? :heeheehee

[Evang.Benincasa]

Pick one, they all speak of the presence of God here on earth, in the temple, resting on or in man etc etc...Here..I will repost again the verses.....


SHEKINAH shə-kīʹnə [Heb šeḵînâ—‘dwelling’]. A circum-locution used in rabbinic literature to signify God’s presence. In reaction to Hellenism and paganism, Judaism attempted on the one hand to preserve the biblical notion of God’s presence while on the other hand emphasizing the vast gulf between the deity and mankind.

Although the word “Shekinah” does not occur in the Bible, the root škn occurs not only in the verb (“dwell”), but also in the noun miškān (“dwelling place,” “tabernacle”) and the name Shecaniah (“Yahweh dwells”; e.g., 1 Ch. 3:21f). The promise that God would dwell with mankind goes back to Noah’s blessing in Gen. 9:27 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Gen.+9%3A27): “God enlarge Japheth, may he [God] dwell in the tents of Shem” (cf. RSV “and let him [Japheth] dwell …”). The Aramaic Tg Onkelos renders this verse: “He will cause his Shekinah to dwell in the dwelling-place of Shem.”

Many passages in the Pentateuch affirm that the Lord came to dwell among His people Israel. First He revealed His glory-cloud (Ex. 13:21 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Ex.+13%3A21)f), which represented His presence and protection in the wilderness (see PILLAR OF CLOUD AND PILLAR OF FIRE). The cloud came to rest at Mt. Sinai and formed a canopy for Moses as he communed with Yahweh and received the commandments (cf. 24:15–18). The purpose of the revelation about the construction of the TABERNACLE and the commencement of the priestly service (chs 25–31) was to ensure that Israel might be blessed by the divine presence in its midst: “And let them make a sanctuary, that I may dwell in their midst. According to all that I show you concerning the pattern of the tabernacle, and all of its furniture, so you shall make it” (25:8f). The divine presence was a guarantee of the covenant: “And I will dwell among the people of Israel, and will be their God. And they shall know that I am the Lord their God, who brought them forth out of the land of Egypt that I might dwell among them; I am the Lord their God” (29:45f; cf. Lev. 26:11 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Lev.+26%3A11)f). ONLY the concept of Shekinah can explain the details of Israel’s cultic, moral, and civil laws. By these means God taught Israel how to live as a holy and clean people in His presence (cf. Nu. 5:3).

When the “tabernacle” (miškān) of the Lord was completed, it was crowned with the descent of the glory-cloud. The Pentateuch stresses that all Israel saw the cloud covering the tabernacle as evidence of the presence of the Lord’s glory (Ex. 40:34 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Ex.+40%3A34)–38; Lev. 9:23 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Lev.+9%3A23)f). Israel believed that the divine presence was particularly associated with the Most Holy Place, where Yahweh dwelt between the cherubim above the ark (1 S. 4:4; 2 S. 6:2; Ps. 80:1 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Ps.+80%3A1) [MT 2]; see ARK OF THE COVENANT VI). The Shekinah signified God’s presence and protection; thus when the ark was carried forward an early war hymn exclaimed, “Arise, O Lord and let thy enemies be scattered; and let them that hate thee flee before thee”; and when it rested the response was, “Return, O Lord, to the ten thousand thousands of Israel” (Nu. 10:35f). Later in Israel’s history the location of the ark signified the place of the divine Shekinah — first at Shiloh (1 S. 4:4) and later in Jerusalem (2 S. 6:12–19). Yahweh revealed His glorious presence again through a cloud at the dedication of the Solomonic TEMPLE (1 K. 8:10f). Upon this occasion Solomon declared, “The Lord has set the sun in the heavens, but has said that he would dwell in thick darkness. I have built thee an exalted house, a place for thee to dwell in for ever” (1 K. 8:12f).

Closely related to the motif of the PRESENCE OF GOD are other motifs: “the angel of the Lord” (cf. Ex. 14:19 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Ex.+14%3A19); 23:20–23; 33:1–3; Isa. 63:9 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Isa.+63%3A9); see ANGEL II.C), the “glory” of the Lord (Ex. 40:34 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Ex.+40%3A34)–38; Ezk. 1:28; 10:18f; 11:22f), the “word” (Isa. 55:10 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Isa.+55%3A10)f), “wisdom” (Prov. 8 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Prov.+8)), and “Spirit” of the Lord (Ezk. 2:2; 11:24). These reveal God’s presence and the means of His judgment and deliverance.

Is this David R Dillings opinions?

What do you think of his other theological writings and commentaries, do you use them also as primary sources for what you believe?

[Esaias]

Here is what the topic never was..

It was NEVER about the Kabbalah despite others trying to change the topic to that.

It was NEVER about how Jews today use the term.

It was ONLY about how the term and the CONCEPT was used in second temple Judaism in and around the time Jesus was here on earth to refer to God's Presence here on earth such as in the Temple dedication.



Did you post evidence the term WAS used 'in second temple Judaism in and around the time Jesus was here on earth'?

All the evidence I have read seems to indicate it was a medieval conception...

And YES the topic involves kabbala. To say otherwise would be like asking about the word 'trinity' and then saying Nicea and catholicism is not on topic.

:foottap

[Evang.Benincasa]

So we've concluded that Jews use the word 'shekinah' to refer to the presence of God.

And the point of it all is?

From the title of the thread I guess we are trying to conclude that the early apostles used the word shekinah to refer to the presence Jesus Christ? :nah

[Evang.Benincasa]

Did you post evidence the term WAS used 'in second temple Judaism in and around the time Jesus was here on earth'?

All the evidence I have read seems to indicate it was a medieval conception...

And YES the topic involves kabbala. To say otherwise would be like asking about the word 'trinity' and then saying Nicea and catholicism is not on topic.

:foottap

Very good Esaias-san, your Kung Fu is very good.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o304/Undyingsoul1/KungFuApostle.gif

[Esaias]

See the topic

BTW, the 'Jewish concept of Shekinah' is a female 'mother-bride-goddess' concept.

You can't just borrow a term used by Jews for THEIR theological opinions, and use it YOUR own way (without their theological baggage) and then say 'the Jewish concept of'.... at least not rationally, in my opinion.

[Esaias]

Very good Esaias-san, your Kung Fu is very good.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o304/Undyingsoul1/KungFuApostle.gif

I received much chi-infusion the previous Turkey day.

:heeheehee

[Praxeas]

I did. And it looks like you are just trying to find some 'new thing' here??

The 'shekinah' concept is a kabbalistic doctrine (set of doctrines, actually), whereas the 'Jesus' concept is a bible doctrine (set of doctrines, actually).

Give no heed to Jewish fables.
No. Old thing. See the scriptures.

The concept of God's glory in the temple is biblical and if its in the kabbala that is irrerlevent.

The Kabbalah also teaches about Elohim Yhwh. Guilt by association is a logical fallacy.

Its sad how many can't see the forest for the trees.

Talmud is not Kabbala

[Praxeas]

BTW, the 'Jewish concept of Shekinah' is a female 'mother-bride-goddess' concept.

That is kabbalah. What I am talking about is not. Kabbalah calls God (elohim) Yhwh a dual sex deity too....

[Praxeas]

You can't just borrow a term used by Jews for THEIR theological opinions, and use it YOUR own way (without their theological baggage) and then say 'the Jewish concept of'.... at least not rationally, in my opinion.
That isn't what I am doing but if I was I can do whatever I want..

This word comes from A biblical word. That it has a use in the Kabbala does not change or affect how it was used not in the Kabbalah.

[Praxeas]

Is this David R Dillings opinions?

What do you think of his other theological writings and commentaries, do you use them also as primary sources for what you believe?

Never heard of him.

[Praxeas]

http://judaism.about.com/library/3_askrabbi_o/bl_simmons_shekina.htm

The term "Shekina" is best translated as "Divine Presence" and is simply another term for God. This term refers to man's relationship with God. This relationship can be illustrated with the following example: Imagine being in the Grand Canyon before sunrise, totally enveloped in the darkness of its vast depths. Suddenly, the first ray of sunlight beams from the horizon, and you witness a beautiful sunrise. You think to yourself, "Is it possible this sunrise was a mere chemical mishap? No, this must be a creation of God!" The awe that person felt, is the experience with the Shechina, which is referred to in the feminine.

The Shekina is inseparable from God, as opposed to the holy ghost which borders on idolatry.

[Praxeas]

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13537-shekinah

In the Targumim. The majestic presence or manifestation of God which has descended to "dwell" among men. Like Memra (= "word"; "logos") and "Ye ara" (i.e., "Kabod" = "glory"), the term was used by the Rabbis in place of "God" where the anthropomorphic expressions of the Bible were no longer regarded as proper (see Anthropomorphism). The word itself is taken from such passages as speak of God dwelling either in the Tabernacle or among the people of Israel (see Ex. xxv. 8, xxix. 45-46; Num. v. 3, xxxv. 34; I Kings vi. 13; Ezek. xliii. 9; Zech. ii. 14 [A. V. 10]). Occasionally the name of God is spoken of as descending (Deut. xii. 11; xiv. 23; xvi. 6, 11; xxvi. 2; Neh. i. 9). It is especially said that God dwells in Jerusalem (Zech. viii. 3; Ps. cxxxv. 21; I Chron. xxiii. 25), on Mount Zion (Isa. viii. 18; Joel iv. [A. V. iii.] 17, 21; Ps. xv. 1, lxxiv. 2), and in the Temple itself (Ezek. xliii. 7). Allusion is made also to "him that dwelt in the bush" (Deut. xxxiii. 16, ); and it is said that "the glory of the Lord abode upon Mount Sinai" (Ex. xxiv. 16). The term "Shekinah," which is Hebrew, whereas "Memra" and "Ye ara" are Aramaic, took the place of the latter two in Talmudand Midrash, and thus absorbed the meaning which they have in the Targum, where they almost exclusively occur. Nevertheless the word "Shekinah" occurs most frequently in the Aramaic versions, since they were intended for the people and were actually read to them, and since precautions had therefore to be taken against possible misunderstandings in regard to the conception of God. The word "dwell" in the Hebrew text is accordingly rendered in the Targumim by the phrase "let the Shekinah rest" (e.g., Ex. xxv. 8; xxix. 45, 46; Num. v. 3, xxxv. 34; Deut. xxxii. 10 [R. V. "he compassed him about"]; Ps. lxxiv. 2). On elos translates "Elohim" in Gen. ix. 27 by "Shekinah"; and wherever the person, the dwelling, or the remoteness of God is mentioned, he paraphrases by the same word (Num. xiv. 14, 42; xvi. 3; xxxv. 34; Deut. i. 42, iii. 24, iv. 39, vi. 15, vii. 21, xxiii. 16, xxxi. 17); so too, wherever the Name occurs, he substitutes for it the term "Shekinah" (Deut. xii. 5, 11, 21), and "presence" or "face" is translated the same way (Ex. xxxiii. 14-15; Num. vi. 25; Deut. xxxi. 17-18; see Maybaum, "Anthropomorphien," etc., pp. 52-54). Targ. pseudo-Jonathan and Yerushalmi adopt a like system, as in Ps. xvi. 8, lxxxix. 47, Lam. ii. 19, and Cant. vi. 1 (ib. pp. 64 et seq.). Where the text states that God dwells in the Temple above the cherubim (as in Hab. ii. 20; I Sam. iv. 4; II Sam. vi. 2; I Kings viii. 12, 13; xiv. 21; Ps. lxxiv. 2), or that God has been seen (Isa. vi. 6 et seq.; Ex. iii. 6; Ezek. i. 1; Lev. ix. 4), the Yerushalmi has "Shekinah"; and even where it describes God as abiding in heaven, the same word is used (Isa. xxxiii. 5; Deut. iii. 24, iv. 39). This statement holds true also of allusions to His remoteness or to the hiding of His face (Hos. v. 6; Isa. viii. 17, xlv. 15; Hastings, "Dict. Bible," iv. 488b). The Temple is called the "house of the Shekinah" (Targ. On . to Deut. xii. 5; Ps. xlix. 15, cviii. 8); and the term likewise occurs in connection with "glory" ("ye ara"; Ruth ii. 12; Cant. iii. 6, iv. 6, v. 6; Ps. xliv. 25, lxviii. 19, cxv. 16; Jer. xix. 18) and with "holiness" (Cant. i. 10, ii. 2, iii. 2, vi. 1; Ps. lxxiv. 12, lxxxvi. 3).....

[Praxeas]

http://www.bible-history.com/tabernacle/TAB4The_Shekinah_Glory.htm

[Praxeas]

I believe this teaching leads to a powerful Oneness understanding as well as having the power of God more in our lives and meetings. So with regards to the doubters this is for the others not hung up on a word...
age in the New Testament
Smith notes that, “Invocation of the name was still important in New Testament times. Jesus taught His disciples to begin their prayers, ‘ (‘)Our Father … hallowed be your name’ (Matt 6:9)” (Smith, Old Testament Theology, 117). McConville explains that the name of Yahweh is about who He truly is (compare Exod 3:14; 6:3). With broad strokes, McConville surveys the Bible and presents the relationship between the name of God and His saving actions: “His name can be fully known only in the context of the unfolding biblical story. Thus, the God who delivered Israel from Egypt becomes known in time as the God who saves his people from the bondage in Babylon that their own sin had brought upon them (Isa 40–55). And for the Christian reader, God is known in the end in his self-disclosure in Christ, which is both a new thing and a continuation of the disclosures in the Old Testament.” Additionally, McConville suggests that the promise of the “name” (ὄνομα, onoma) is found in New Testament texts like Jas 2:7, which echoes the language of the “place formula” in its LXX form (“assembly” and “chosen” are also found in Jas 2:2 and 5, respectively): “the name in question is Christ, and the ‘ (‘)place’ is the people of God” (McConville, Deuteronomy, 230).
According to Richter, the understanding reflected in the Pentateuch regarding the divine presence is applied to Jesus in the Incarnation as “the logos who became flesh and dwelt [ὲσκήνωσεν (eskēnōsen)] among us” (John 1:14). Richter’s biblical-theological connection is appropriate based upon the fact that the lexical form, σκηνόω (skēnoō), of the Greek verb ὲσκήνωσεν (eskēnōsen) is translated “to live, dwell in a tent.” The term is related to its nominal form, σκηνή (skēnē), or “tabernacle,” which served as the place of God’s “tenting” among the Israelites in the wilderness. When applied to Christ, the divine logos “tented” among us when He became flesh during the incarnation. Richter also ties Rev 21:3 to the idea of God’s “tabernacle” presence as the ultimate fulfillment of the new covenant in its antitypical and eschatological expression: “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and he shall dwell among them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be among them” (Richter, The Deuteronomistic History and the Name Theology, 12).
Jesus Himself assured His people that His name and presence are unequivocally interrelated: “For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them” (Matt 18:20 ESV). Youngblood equates the name of Jesus and His divine presence so completely that, “Belief in Jesus’ name is the same as believing in Jesus himself, as John 3:18 demonstrates … He [Jesus] is just like his name—a name that means Savior (Matt 1:21) a name ‘ (‘)that is above every [other] name’ (Phil 2:9)” (Youngblood, “Names in Bible Times,” 750).

Lexham Bible Dictionary

[Praxeas]

http://hope-of-israel.org/shekina2.htm

Really good

[Truthseeker]

You all still fighting over her?:smack

[Praxeas]

There is no her

[Evang.Benincasa]

No. Old thing. See the scriptures.

The concept of God's glory in the temple is biblical and if its in the kabbala that is irrerlevent.

The Kabbalah also teaches about Elohim Yhwh. Guilt by association is a logical fallacy.

Its sad how many can't see the forest for the trees.

Talmud is not Kabbala

Prax, seems to me you are more concerned in winning an argument than dealing with the questions posed to you. So, allow me to try this again.

How is it a Biblical topic if the word isn't used in the Bible?

You end your post with information found in the Talmud?

Should Christians use the Talmud to gather teaching?

I also have a second question...

How much do you know about the subject of the Shekinah, Kabbalah, the Talmud, the Zohar, and Rabbinical Judaism outside of Goggle searches online?

:)

[Praxeas]

Prax, seems to me you are more concerned in winning an argument than dealing with the questions posed to you. So, allow me to try this again.



I also have a second question...

How much do you know about the subject of the Shekinah, Kabbalah, the Talmud, the Zohar, and Rabbinical Judaism outside of Goggle searches online?

:)
The Talmud is NOT the Zohar and I know plenty. I believe it was a middle age fabrication.

What THIS topic is about has nothing to do with the Kabbalah as I already said dozens of times.

The subject in THIS thread is NOT the Shekinah of the Kabbalah nor Metatron nor Yhwh nor Elohim nor anything else the Kabbalah teaches on.

It's sad that none of you want to discuss what the bible teaches about God's presence/dwelling and obfuscate what this topic was about.

[Praxeas]

Prax, seems to me you are more concerned in winning an argument than dealing with the questions posed to you. So, allow me to try this again.





:)
I didn't start an argument. You did. This topic has NOTHING at all to do with the Kabbalah. I don't know how many times that needs to be said.

The Talmud is NOT Kabblah.

http://ohr.edu/ask_db/ask_main.php/233/Q3/

[KeptByTheWord]

Prax and EB... seems to me that neither one of you like to lose an argument...

:couch

[navygoat1998]

Prax and EB... seems to me that neither one of you like to lose an argument...

:couch

:hanky

[Praxeas]

There is no argument. It's a topic about God's presence dwelling here in the OT and in Christ in the NT.

He wants to hijack the thread and make it an argument. Don't you guys see? We never even started discussing the topic yet because they hijacked it.

This topic never was about the Kabbalah.

[Praxeas]

Many people don't realize John was not a greek writing from a Greek mindset. He was a JEW writing from a Jewish mindset.

Jesus also was a Jew and He communicated TO Jews in a way those Jews would understand.

Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Greek word for Dwelt is Skenoo

sn The Greek word translated took up residence (σκηνόω, skēnoō) alludes to the OT tabernacle, where the Shekinah, the visible glory of God’s presence, resided. The author is suggesting that this glory can now be seen in Jesus (note the following verse). The verb used here may imply that the Shekinah glory that once was found in the tabernacle has taken up residence in the person of Jesus. Cf. also John 2:19–21. The Word became flesh. This verse constitutes the most concise statement of the incarnation in the New Testament.

Biblical Studies Press. (2006). The NET Bible First Edition Notes (Jn 1:14). Biblical Studies Press.

Compare

Rev 15:8 and the sanctuary was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from his power, and no one could enter the sanctuary until the seven plagues of the seven angels were finished.

Exo 40:34 Then the cloud covered the tent of meeting, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.

1Ki 8:10 And when the priests came out of the Holy Place, a cloud filled the house of the LORD,
1Ki 8:11 so that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud, for the glory of the LORD filled the house of the LORD.
1Ki 8:12 Then Solomon said, "The LORD has said that he would dwell in thick darkness.
1Ki 8:13 I have indeed built you an exalted house, a place for you to dwell in forever."


The Manifest Presence of God. That is what this was supposed to be about. Sadly people have more interest in arguing over words than discussing what the bible says nowadays.

[Revelationist]

It's sad that none of you want to discuss what the bible teaches about God's presence/dwelling and obfuscate what this topic was about.

I don't think your understanding . It's not that they don't want to discuss gods presence in the Old Testiment, it's just that we don't want to blend Gods presence with the mother of God.

[Praxeas]

I don't think your understanding . It's not that they don't want to discuss gods presence in the Old Testiment, it's just that we don't want to blend Gods presence with the mother of God.
I never DID blend it with the Mother of God.

I made that clear over and over that the topic HERE is not the Kabbalah.

That's my point. Yet you guys never want to discuss the topic. You want to discuss how the Kabbalah uses the term and force that into this discussion.

That's like taking what the Kabbalah teaches about God (Elohim) and when someone wants to discuss what the bible says about Elohim, you avoid it and harp on what the Kabbalah teaches on God.

The word Shekinah comes from a Hebrew word for "dwell". It was coined to refer to the PRESENCE OF GOD such as the verse I just posted.

It was the Kabbalists that later added their own spin on it, just as they did with Wisdom and Sophia and even Yhwh and other biblical concepts or terms.

But the word Shekina means "dwelling". It does NOT mean "Mother of God".

Although the word “Shekinah” does not occur in the Bible, the root škn occurs not only in the verb (“dwell”), but also in the noun miškān (“dwelling place,” “tabernacle”) and the name Shecaniah (“Yahweh dwells”; e.g., 1 Ch. 3:21f). The promise that God would dwell with mankind goes back to Noah’s blessing in Gen. 9:27: “God enlarge Japheth, may he [God] dwell in the tents of Shem” (cf. RSV “and let him [Japheth] dwell …”). The Aramaic Tg Onkelos renders this verse: “He will cause his Shekinah to dwell in the dwelling-place of Shem.”

. Vol. 4: The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Revised. 1979–1988 (G. W. Bromiley, Ed.) (466). Wm. B. Eerdmans.

I 've made it very very clear, repeating it over and over that THIS topic has NOTHING to do with concept found in the Kabbalah.

[Praxeas]

BTW if it's not that you guys don't want to discuss the presence of God and how it's used in the bible, how come nobody has after being told over and over and over that what THIS topic is about is NOT how Shekina is used in the Kabbalah?

Yeah, said it before but that proverb is true. Some can't see the forest for the trees.

[Revelationist]

BTW if it's not that you guys don't want to discuss the presence of God and how it's used in the bible, how come nobody has after being told over and over and over that what THIS topic is about is NOT how Shekina is used in the Kabbalah?

Yeah, said it before but that proverb is true. Some can't see the forest for the trees.

If you admit that it's not in the Bible. So how can you claim is used in the Bible?

[Praxeas]

The more I study this and other Hebraic concepts and realize the NT was written from a HEBREW not a GREEK mindset or written to correct Greek understanding using Hebrew, the more Oneness makes sense.

God's "Presence" rested on the prophets and spoke through them. In the NT God's presence took up permanent residency in human form.

[Praxeas]

If you admit that it's not in the Bible. So how can you claim is used in the Bible?
As said before, I don't have a fear of words or using words not found in the bible especially since the CONCEPTS are in the bible..

The word Shekina means "dwelling" and comes from a Hebrew word for dwell to refer to God's PRESENCE dwelling here..

The concept is biblical.

Ive already addressed you on this several times so now you are just repeating yourself..ok? It's the CONCEPT this topic is about not the word nor the Kabbalah. Good grief

Biblical...NOT in the bible
Revival..NOT in the bible
Lot's of words are not in the bible
Evangelize..not in the bible.
Oneness...NOT in the bible.

Using your logic then, we should not discuss Oneness or evangelizing our lost cities etc etc...

[Revelationist]

The more I study this and other Hebraic concepts and realize the NT was written from a HEBREW not a GREEK mindset or written to correct Greek understanding using Hebrew, the more Oneness makes sense.

God's "Presence" rested on the prophets and spoke through them. In the NT God's presence took up permanent residency in human form.


When Christ was born, it's what many recognize as a Theophany . But when Christ was born, this wasn't the first time God had manifested himself to man.

[Praxeas]

If you admit that it's not in the Bible. So how can you claim is used in the Bible?
BTW I did not say the word is used in the bible.

That is the point, you guys are arguing over words when the topic HERE is the concept of the presence of God.

[Revelationist]

As said before, I don't have a fear of words or using words not found in the bible especially since the CONCEPTS are in the bible..

The word Shekina means "dwelling" and comes from a Hebrew word for dwell to refer to God's PRESENCE dwelling here..

The concept is biblical.

Ive already addressed you on this several times so now you are just repeating yourself..ok? It's the CONCEPT this topic is about not the word nor the Kabbalah. Good grief

Biblical...NOT in the bible
Revival..NOT in the bible
Lot's of words are not in the bible
Evangelize..not in the bible.
Oneness...NOT in the bible.

Using your logic then, we should not discuss Oneness or evangelizing our lost cities etc etc...

Trinity and Shekina fall into the same catagory.

[Praxeas]

When Christ was born, it's what many recognize as a Theophany . But when Christ was born, this wasn't the first time God had manifested himself to man.
Ok.....THEOPHANY....yeah...

Am I allowed to use that non-biblical word too?

[Praxeas]

Trinity and Shekina fall into the same catagory.
Oh yeah...In sure they rank right up there with THEOPHANY too right?

At Delphi the Theophania (Θεοφάνια) or Theophanies was an annual festival in spring celebrating the return of Apollo from his winter quarters in Hyperborea. The culmination of the festival was a display of an image of the gods, usually hidden in the sanctuary, to worshippers. Later Roman mystery religions often included similar brief displays of images to excited worshippers.[6]


The appearance of Zeus to Semele is more than a mortal can stand and she is burned to death by the flames of his power.[7] However, most Greek theophanies were less deadly. Unusual for Greek mythology is the story of Prometheus, not an Olympian but a Titan, who brought knowledge of fire to humanity. There are no descriptions of the humans involved in this theophany, but Prometheus was severely punished by Zeus. Divine or heroic epiphanies were sometimes experienced in historical times, either in dreams or as a waking vision, and frequently led to the foundation of a cult, or at least an act of worship and the dedication of a commemorative offering.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theophany

See how irrational this fear of words gets? Maybe we should not say "Sunday" or "Saturday" anymore?

Shekina and Trinity are real words just as Theophany is. All words are real words. Words did not magically waft down from heaven to earth. Words are invented by MAN in our language to convey ideas.

Shekina comes from a Hebrew word used in the bible meaning "Dwell".

Although the word “Shekinah” does not occur in the Bible, the root škn occurs not only in the verb (“dwell”), but also in the noun miškān (“dwelling place,” “tabernacle”) and the name Shecaniah (“Yahweh dwells”; e.g., 1 Ch. 3:21f). The promise that God would dwell with mankind goes back to Noah’s blessing in Gen. 9:27: “God enlarge Japheth, may he [God] dwell in the tents of Shem” (cf. RSV “and let him [Japheth] dwell …”). The Aramaic Tg Onkelos renders this verse: “He will cause his Shekinah to dwell in the dwelling-place of Shem.”

Vol. 4: The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Revised. 1979–1988 (G. W. Bromiley, Ed.) (466). Wm. B. Eerdmans.

That is what it means. That is how it's being used here. It's theological use is NOT limited to the Kabbalah (nor was it first or exclusively used there).

It's first use was the Aramaic targums.

[Praxeas]

Joh 3:19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their deeds were evil.

[Praxeas]

Joh 12:46 I have come into the world as light, so that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness.

[Revelationist]

Ok.....THEOPHANY....yeah...

Am I allowed to use that non-biblical word too?

God has appeared many times to man. When Jesus was born, was not Gods first appearance ....

[Evang.Benincasa]

Here is what the topic never was..

It was NEVER about the Kabbalah despite others trying to change the topic to that.

It was NEVER about how Jews today use the term.

It was ONLY about how the term and the CONCEPT was used in second temple Judaism in and around the time Jesus was here on earth to refer to God's Presence here on earth such as in the Temple dedication.


Did you post evidence the term WAS used 'in second temple Judaism in and around the time Jesus was here on earth'?

All the evidence I have read seems to indicate it was a medieval conception...

And YES the topic involves kabbala. To say otherwise would be like asking about the word 'trinity' and then saying Nicea and catholicism is not on topic.

:foottap

Prax, did you ever post the primary sources that prove that the word shekinah was used by Jesus and His apostles during the second temple period?

[Evang.Benincasa]

The more I study this and other Hebraic concepts and realize the NT was written from a HEBREW not a GREEK mindset or written to correct Greek understanding using Hebrew, the more Oneness makes sense.

God's "Presence" rested on the prophets and spoke through them. In the NT God's presence took up permanent residency in human form.

So, are you now saying that the New Testament was originally penned in Hebrew? Or that Hebrews who spoke Greek, but thought in Hebrew wrote the New Testament in Greek with the Hebrew understanding?

[Evang.Benincasa]

The Talmud is NOT the Zohar and I know plenty. I believe it was a middle age fabrication.

Do you scream at your computer screen?

Who said that the Zohar was the Talmud, or the Talmud is the Zohar?

Take a chill pill, just because a poster places certain things in the same sentence doesn't mean they all are the same thing, hence the reason we use commas? :heeheehee


What THIS topic is about has nothing to do with the Kabbalah as I already said dozens of times.

Well, that is not entirely so, because you use title a thread in a way which would make anyone who knows anything about how the Rabbinical Jews use the word to make all sorts of statements. Hence you may of not wanted to get into this discussion, but putting Shekinah and Jesus together seemed to open a can of worms.


The subject in THIS thread is NOT the Shekinah of the Kabbalah nor Metatron nor Yhwh nor Elohim nor anything else the Kabbalah teaches on.

You see Prax, this is what leads me to believe that you are limited in your knowledge of this topic. You look like all you know is what you been finding on the web. Not the Shekinah of Kabbalah? How old is Jewish Mysticism?


It's sad that none of you want to discuss what the bible teaches about God's presence/dwelling and obfuscate what this topic was about.

Obfuscating the discussion? I sorry that you feel the need to play victim here and anyone challenging your choice of topic as being the bad guy. Seems you were just looking for threads of posts giving you a thumbs up? :thumbsup

[Evang.Benincasa]

I didn't start an argument. You did. This topic has NOTHING at all to do with the Kabbalah. I don't know how many times that needs to be said.

The Talmud is NOT Kabblah.

http://ohr.edu/ask_db/ask_main.php/233/Q3/

Brother, if you didn't think you would get this sort of reaction to the title of your thread, then you know less about your subject than you wish to admit.

:nod

[Evang.Benincasa]

Many people don't realize John was not a greek writing from a Greek mindset. He was a JEW writing from a Jewish mindset.

Jesus also was a Jew and He communicated TO Jews in a way those Jews would understand.

Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Greek word for Dwelt is Skenoo

sn The Greek word translated took up residence (σκηνόω, skēnoō) alludes to the OT tabernacle, where the Shekinah, the visible glory of God’s presence, resided. The author is suggesting that this glory can now be seen in Jesus (note the following verse). The verb used here may imply that the Shekinah glory that once was found in the tabernacle has taken up residence in the person of Jesus. Cf. also John 2:19–21. The Word became flesh. This verse constitutes the most concise statement of the incarnation in the New Testament.

Biblical Studies Press. (2006). The NET Bible First Edition Notes (Jn 1:14). Biblical Studies Press.

Compare

Rev 15:8 and the sanctuary was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from his power, and no one could enter the sanctuary until the seven plagues of the seven angels were finished.

Exo 40:34 Then the cloud covered the tent of meeting, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.

1Ki 8:10 And when the priests came out of the Holy Place, a cloud filled the house of the LORD,
1Ki 8:11 so that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud, for the glory of the LORD filled the house of the LORD.
1Ki 8:12 Then Solomon said, "The LORD has said that he would dwell in thick darkness.
1Ki 8:13 I have indeed built you an exalted house, a place for you to dwell in forever."


The Manifest Presence of God. That is what this was supposed to be about. Sadly people have more interest in arguing over words than discussing what the bible says nowadays.

With all due respect, are you trying to say that the Greek σκηνόω is a transliteration of Shekinah?

[Evang.Benincasa]

There is no argument. It's a topic about God's presence dwelling here in the OT and in Christ in the NT.

He wants to hijack the thread and make it an argument. Don't you guys see? We never even started discussing the topic yet because they hijacked it.

This topic never was about the Kabbalah.

He wants to hijack? Don't you guys see?

Whatever. :highfive

[Praxeas]

God has appeared many times to man. When Jesus was born, was not Gods first appearance ....
Didn't you already say that?

[Praxeas]

With all due respect, are you trying to say that the Greek σκηνόω is a transliteration of Shekinah?
Uh...no

[Praxeas]

Brother, if you didn't think you would get this sort of reaction to the title of your thread, then you know less about your subject than you wish to admit.

:nod
I know that some people can't see the forest for the trees and was hoping for better from the people on this forum especially after having told those same people several times now I was not referring to the Kabbalistic concept.

The word did not originate with the Kabbalah nor is it limited to the Kabbalah,.

[Praxeas]

Do you scream at your computer screen?

Who said that the Zohar was the Talmud, or the Talmud is the Zohar?

Take a chill pill, just because a poster places certain things in the same sentence doesn't mean they all are the same thing, hence the reason we use commas? :heeheehee

I don't know what your problem is. I responded to you without any bad words or anger. I simply replied very clearly the Talmud is NOT the Zohar..

Maybe you need to take a chill pill? I already provided ample citation from Jewish sources on the distinction between the Kabbalah and the Talmud. Why even bring up the Zohar? It has nothing to do with this topic?

Well, that is not entirely so, because you use title a thread in a way which would make anyone who knows anything about how the Rabbinical Jews use the word to make all sorts of statements. Hence you may of not wanted to get into this discussion, but putting Shekinah and Jesus together seemed to open a can of worms.
Actually I used a title thread that makes SOME people who don't know better and mistakenly believe the word Shekinah can only be used in the context of a Kabbalistic teaching.

I've spent most of the time on this topic trying to explain that to you guys. I very clearly, several times now, explained that the Kabbalistic idea was not part of the topic. Did you guys stop the arguments? No.

See the problem? The problem is not the initial reaction but the continued arguing even after explaining that to you.

You see Prax, this is what leads me to believe that you are limited in your knowledge of this topic. You look like all you know is what you been finding on the web. Not the Shekinah of Kabbalah? How old is Jewish Mysticism?
Actually my research was at first NOT "on the web" but sources I have from scholars and people that I believe are far more educated that all us put together

The simple truth is the word Shekinah is not limited to the Kabbalah, not exclusive to the Kabbalah and was used in non Kabbalistic rabbincal writings.

But I already told you that several times now

Obfuscating the discussion? I sorry that you feel the need to play victim here and anyone challenging your choice of topic as being the bad guy. Seems you were just looking for threads of posts giving you a thumbs up?

You obfuscating the topic does not make someone else a victim. Is that really how your brain works?

Please show me where I said someone was the bad guy? What did you think the word Obfuscate means? lol

[Praxeas]

Did you post evidence the term WAS used 'in second temple Judaism in and around the time Jesus was here on earth'?

All the evidence I have read seems to indicate it was a medieval conception...

And YES the topic involves kabbala. To say otherwise would be like asking about the word 'trinity' and then saying Nicea and catholicism is not on topic.

:foottap

Prax, did you ever post the primary sources that prove that the word shekinah was used by Jesus and His apostles during the second temple period?
I didn't say "Jesus used the word shekinah".

Try reading that again sir. I said it was IN use around that time. Just like around that time Jews said "Adonai" instead of Yhwh or "Memra" instead of "Yhwh said"

And once again the topic is not THE WORD "Shekinah" but the concept of God's presence/Glory/Dwelling.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Uh...no

Wonderful, now wasn't that painless? :heeheehee

[Praxeas]

Did you post evidence the term WAS used 'in second temple Judaism in and around the time Jesus was here on earth'?

All the evidence I have read seems to indicate it was a medieval conception...

And YES the topic involves kabbala. To say otherwise would be like asking about the word 'trinity' and then saying Nicea and catholicism is not on topic.

:foottap
I posted SEVERAL quotes, links and other sources detailing the term began to be used in 300 BC but again the issue of this thread was never "the term" but the CONCEPT.

No the topic does not involve the Kabbalah.

Your example is a bad example because the word Shekinah is not limited to the Kabbalah nor to how the Kabbalah used it.

The Kabbalah also speaks of God. Does that mean every time we discuss the topic of God we can't use the word God? Or Yhwh? Or any other word?

That is a logical fallacy called guilt by association.

[Praxeas]

The more I study this and other Hebraic concepts and realize the NT was written from a HEBREW not a GREEK mindset or written to correct Greek understanding using Hebrew, the more Oneness makes sense.

God's "Presence" rested on the prophets and spoke through them. In the NT God's presence took up permanent residency in human form.

So, are you now saying that the New Testament was originally penned in Hebrew? Or that Hebrews who spoke Greek, but thought in Hebrew wrote the New Testament in Greek with the Hebrew understanding?
Please show me where I said the NT was originally penned in Hebrew?

[votivesoul]

Prax, you can chat with me.

I believe the glory of God can be and is often manifested or revealed by Him. There is no doubt this glory of God takes up residence in various, geo-spatial locations, up to and including the human frame, as seen particularly in the man Christ Jesus.

I have no difficulty at all using the word Shekinah to describe this concept.

Shekinah is merely a metonymy, defined thusly:

a figure of speech that consists of the use of the name of one object or concept for that of another to which it is related, or of which it is a part, as “scepter” for “sovereignty,” or “the bottle” for “strong drink,” or “count heads (or noses)” for “count people.”

In this way, Shekinah is a figure of speech that consists of the use of a name of one subject (i.e. the manifested glory of God) for that of another to which is is related, or of which it is a part (i.e. God's dwelling-place).

Everybody else needs to calm down and accept Prax's use of the term within the confines of how he is using it.

To do less is equivocation and prevarication. Tsk, tsk.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Please show me where I said the NT was originally penned in Hebrew?

Prax, you mean you didn't read my post? Therefore you react, instead of respond?

Allow me to re-post....

So, are you now saying that the New Testament was originally penned in Hebrew? Or that Hebrews who spoke Greek, but thought in Hebrew wrote the New Testament in Greek with the Hebrew understanding?

This is called a question, not an accusation, it is usually employed to get clarification?

:)

[Praxeas]

Mat 23:21 And whoever swears by the temple swears by it and by him who dwells in it.

Joh 14:17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.

Joh 14:23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and take up residence with him.

[Praxeas]

Prax, you can chat with me.

I believe the glory of God can be and is often manifested or revealed by Him. There is no doubt this glory of God takes up residence in various, geo-spatial locations, up to and including the human frame, as seen particularly in the man Christ Jesus.

I have no difficulty at all using the word Shekinah to describe this concept.

Shekinah is merely a metonymy, defined thusly:



In this way, Shekinah is a figure of speech that consists of the use of a name of one subject (i.e. the manifested glory of God) for that of another to which is is related, or of which it is a part (i.e. God's dwelling-place).

Everybody else needs to calm down and accept Prax's use of the term within the confines of how he is using it.

To do less is equivocation and prevarication. Tsk, tsk.

Thank you! :thumbsup

[Evang.Benincasa]

I didn't say "Jesus used the word shekinah".

Try reading that again sir. I said it was IN use around that time. Just like around that time Jews said "Adonai" instead of Yhwh or "Memra" instead of "Yhwh said"

And once again the topic is not THE WORD "Shekinah" but the concept of God's presence/Glory/Dwelling.

It was IN use during the time of Jesus' ministry but He never used the word?

You didn't say Jesus used the word, but that IT was IN use around the first century A.D.

But that shouldn't be confused with Jesus using the word?

LOL! :highfive

[Evang.Benincasa]

Mat 23:21 And whoever swears by the temple swears by it and by him who dwells in it.

Joh 14:17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.

Joh 14:23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and take up residence with him.

Mat 23:21 And whoever swears by the temple swears by it and by him who shekinah in it.

Joh 14:17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for shekinah and will be in you.

Joh 14:23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and take up shekinah with him.

Is this what you are trying to say Boss? :heeheehee

[Evang.Benincasa]

I don't know what your problem is. I responded to you without any bad words or anger. I simply replied very clearly the Talmud is NOT the Zohar..

I am responding to your idea of Shekinah, not the concept that God dwells.


Maybe you need to take a chill pill? I already provided ample citation from Jewish sources on the distinction between the Kabbalah and the Talmud. Why even bring up the Zohar? It has nothing to do with this topic?

Because you NEVER answered my original question in this discussion.

How is it a Biblical topic if the word isn't used in the Bible?

You end your post with information found in the Talmud?

Should Christians use the Talmud to gather teaching?

Hence I mentioned the rest of Rabbinical literature, therefore I wanted to ask you about your degree of knowledge of all the Rabbinical material. Also when you say that the first century Judeans were using a Hebrew mindset, do you believe that their mindset was what is found in Rabbinical literature?


Actually I used a title thread that makes SOME people who don't know better and mistakenly believe the word Shekinah can only be used in the context of a Kabbalistic teaching.

Good grief. :heeheehee



I've spent most of the time on this topic trying to explain that to you guys. I very clearly, several times now, explained that the Kabbalistic idea was not part of the topic. Did you guys stop the arguments? No.

Yet, every time you did it you caused more questions to be asked.
But sincerely I kept this up because you didn't answer my question.


See the problem? The problem is not the initial reaction but the continued arguing even after explaining that to you.

No argument, just asking more questions to get some clarification.


Actually my research was at first NOT "on the web" but sources I have from scholars and people that I believe are far more educated that all us put together

Have you ever read Gershom Scholem?



The simple truth is the word Shekinah is not limited to the Kabbalah, not exclusive to the Kabbalah and was used in non Kabbalistic rabbincal writings.

Therefore Rabbinical writings are good sources to use to prove Christian teachings?



But I already told you that several times now



You obfuscating the topic does not make someone else a victim. Is that really how your brain works?

Please show me where I said someone was the bad guy? What did you think the word Obfuscate means? lol

Prax, the whole victim issue is you accusing others of hijacking your thread, obfuscating, and making the whole question and answer issue to be a problem. Calmly go through your posts, and see who is the one complaining.

Obfuscate: definition?

It is a word used by Prax when he feels victimized by other posters. :heeheehee

[Revelationist]

Didn't you already say that?


Left out the offending word for you. If it's got a bad rap, I don't need it. I never said the Bible called it a Theophany ... I simply said many would call it that.

[Michael The Disciple]

Remember friends there was only one theophany in the Bible. The angel of YHWH. The "glory" of God and the angel were one.

[Praxeas]

Left out the offending word for you. If it's got a bad rap, I don't need it. I never said the Bible called it a Theophany ... I simply said many would call it that.

Theophany should offend you not me. Remember? Im the one that does not have a problem with theological words just because they are not used in the bible or in an objectional way by some group.

My point was you did what you were accusing me of doing.

[Praxeas]

Remember friends there was only one theophany in the Bible. The angel of YHWH. The "glory" of God and the angel were one.

Im not sure I agree but I can see the possibility. Ill try to study it more.

[votivesoul]

If we're going to freak out about Shekinah, let's also freak out about the following:

- HaShem, a Hebrew word meaning "the name"; a replacement word for the name of God
- Tetragrammaton, a Greek word meaning "four-lettered"; also a replacement word for the name of God
- LORD, a replacement word for the name of God
- Lord GOD, a replacement word for the name of God
- Jehovah, a replacement word for the name of God

[Abiding Now]

When I was a kid, I heard old preachers preach and use the term "Shekinah" to describe the glory of God. No problem for me.

[houston]

When I was a kid, I heard old preachers preach and use the term "Shekinah" to describe the glory of God. No problem for me.is that how you reached all of your beliefs?

[Abiding Now]

is that how you reached all of your beliefs?

Pretty well. I heard preaching and then studied what I heard and IF it was Bible, I prayed about it.

You?

[houston]

Pretty well. I heard preaching and then studied what I heard and IF it was Bible, I prayed about it. You?it doesn't work like that

[Praxeas]

When I was a kid, I heard old preachers preach and use the term "Shekinah" to describe the glory of God. No problem for me.
Exactly

[Abiding Now]

it doesn't working that

Huh?

[Praxeas]

There is so much Hebraic understanding and idioms in the NT. It's fascinating once you get into it and I believe truly supports a more Oneness view than a Trinity..

Not only that, when you realize Jesus is the Memra/Glory of God incarnate there is no way you can deny the Deity of Christ