Heaven is for Real Movie

[Disciple4life]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn_bRrxIGY8

What do you think?

Is it possible?

Or is this kid a liar? :laffatu

[Timmy]

They made a movie? Awesome! Can't wait to see it.

Wonder how they'll depict the Holy Ghost. In the book, it's "kind of blue". :winkgrin

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=37962

[Disciple4life]

Thanks Timmy,

IT"S SETTLLEEDD!!! YYYYEEEEAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!! :happydance

[Disciple4life]

Blue Haze is all in my brain, lately things don't seem the same, excuse me while I Oh never mind. :nod

[KeptByTheWord]

Should be interesting to see exactly how the movie interprets all the things the little boy says he saw.

[BrotherEastman]

I read the book, it was interesting.

[FlamingZword]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn_bRrxIGY8

What do you think?

Is it possible?

Or is this kid a liar? :laffatu

Of course heaven is for real, I just have serious doubts about the parents of that kid.

[Pressing-On]

Just saw this move last week. It was an okay movie. When he said that Jesus was on a "rainbow" horse, I felt I needed to read the book. My DIL happened to have purchased it and I read it last night.

I have news for little boy Colton:

"And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne." Revelation 4:2

Page 95: Speaking of his sister that was stillborn. "It's okay Mommy," he said. "She's okay. God adopted her."

"Don't you mean Jesus adopted her?" she said.

"No Mommy. His Dad did."

What?

Page 100: "God is the biggest one there is. And he really, really loves us, Dad. You can't belieeeeve how much he loves us!"

"And do you know that Jesus sits right next to God?"

"Jesus' chair is right next to his Dad's!"

Page 101: "Well, pretend like you're in God's throne. Jesus sat right there," he said pointing to my right side.

Page 102: So, I'd had my glimpse into God's throne room, but Colton's descriptions had me wondering: if God the Father was seated on his throne with Jesus on his right and Gabriel on his left, where was Colton?

"They brought in a little chair for me," he said smiling. "I sat by God the Holy Spirit. Did you know that God is three persons, Dad?"

"I was sitting by God the Holy Spirit because I was praying for you. You needed the Holy Spirit, so I prayed for you."

So, I closed the book......

[KeptByTheWord]

I haven't seen the movie. Did read the book. Yes, I certainly think the parents have influenced the boy, but just how much is hard to know.

[Evang.Benincasa]

I haven't seen the movie. Did read the book. Yes, I certainly think the parents have influenced the boy, but just how much is hard to know.

When reading the book you see that the father was struggling with his church and with his garage door business. My "opinion" is that the book was an idea by the father to put something together to make some money. Now he is making bank. I do believe the child may have said somethings which gave Todd Burpo the idea to jell out a story, but to say it was "for real" I personally don't buy it.

[FlamingZword]

When reading the book you see that the father was struggling with his church and with his garage door business. My "opinion" is that the book was an idea by the father to put something together to make some money. Now he is making bank. I do believe the child may have said somethings which gave Todd Burpo the idea to jell out a story, but to say it was "for real" I personally don't buy it.

The quote
"I sat by God the Holy Spirit. Did you know that God is three persons, Dad?"
Just totally does not fit with the ideas of a child.
This quote itself generates a mountain of questions.

This thing is definitely not for real.
When this whole fraud comes out, it will only serve to embarrass Christianity.

Sad indeed how this child has been manipulated.

[Evang.Benincasa]

The quote
"I sat by God the Holy Spirit. Did you know that God is three persons, Dad?"
Just totally does not fit with the ideas of a child.
This quote itself generates a mountain of questions.

This thing is definitely not for real.

When this whole fraud comes out, it will only serve to embarrass Christianity.

Sad indeed how this child has been manipulated.

Well, isn't that why they put the whole thing together in the first place?


I'm not saying this is the case, but what if Ted Haggard and the homosexual masseuse was all set up? Here you have the preacher who was beating his drum on the soap box in Jesus Camp documentary and then in a documentary with the atheist scientist Richard Dawkins? Then all of sudden low and behold Mr Ted "NO Same Gender Marriage" Haggard has not only a boyfriend but is snorting coke with the guy?

Life stranger than fiction?

Not trying to start another conspiracy theory.

But sometimes things happen, that can make you wonder?

[Timmy]

The quote
"I sat by God the Holy Spirit. Did you know that God is three persons, Dad?"
Just totally does not fit with the ideas of a child.
This quote itself generates a mountain of questions.

This thing is definitely not for real.
When this whole fraud comes out, it will only serve to embarrass Christianity.

Sad indeed how this child has been manipulated.

Nothing embarrasses Christianity. :lol

[n david]

Heaven is for real...this kid's/father's version of it isn't.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Nothing embarrasses Christianity. :lol

Christianity has made it for 2,000 years and running, and your short life span will not even dent it. When you and I are gone, it will still march on unaffected by our opinions. That will be the last laugh. L O L. :)

[Evang.Benincasa]

Heaven is for real...this kid's/father's version of it isn't.

Amen.

[houston]

Too bad. I really wanted a rainbow pony.

[Timmy]

I'm kinda getting the impression that you guys aren't swayed by eye-witness testimony. :heeheehee

[Pressing-On]

I'm kinda getting the impression that you guys aren't swayed by eye-witness testimony. :heeheehee

Not swayed when it contradicts the Word of God.

[Pressing-On]

Too bad. I really wanted a rainbow pony.

You'll have to be satisfied with your tattooed arm. That's all the rainbow you'll be getting. :heeheehee

[Evang.Benincasa]

I'm kinda getting the impression that you guys aren't swayed by eye-witness testimony. :heeheehee

Ate a full box of Corn Flakes today Timmy? :)

[n david]

Ate a full box of Corn Flakes today Timmy? :)
That High Fructose Corn Syrup must have kicked in. :lol

[AR Pastor]

Don't watch movies here.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Don't watch movies here.

Do you read books?

The book came out 2010.

[Evang.Benincasa]

That High Fructose Corn Syrup must have kicked in. :lol

http://www.naturalhealth365.com/food_news/high_fructose_corn_syrup.html

[FlamingZword]

Don't watch movies here.

Don't worry most movies come from books. :heeheehee

[crakjak]

I believe the kid had an experience, and I believe it indicates a life after death. But the details are interpreted thru the doctrine and experience of the whole family. Just like many other religious experiences, explained thru the lens of the person. If the kid had been OP, it would have agreed with OP's and many of you would have lapped it up!! JMHO LOL

[Evang.Benincasa]

I believe the kid had an experience, and I believe it indicates a life after death. But the details are interpreted thru the doctrine and experience of the whole family. Just like many other religious experiences, explained thru the lens of the person.

So everyone is saved? Sounds like Hinduism.


http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o304/Undyingsoul1/ObamaJoeKrishna.jpg

[Pressing-On]

I believe the kid had an experience, and I believe it indicates a life after death. But the details are interpreted thru the doctrine and experience of the whole family. Just like many other religious experiences, explained thru the lens of the person. If the kid had been OP, it would have agreed with OP's and many of you would have lapped it up!! JMHO LOL

The only thing with him coming through an OP lens is that it wouldn't have contradicted the Bible. That's, like, a big, red, no-brainer flag. :heeheehee

I Googled his interview on the Today show and noticed that his father and mother spoke for him. Why wouldn't they? He is twelve now. He also sounded rehearsed.

One thing that struck me as odd, from the book, is that the father said it took "months and years" to get the full story from Colton. That is very odd as a 4 year old generally talks your ear off about an experience he has had or a place he has been.

During the interview he was asked what vivid memories he still remembers. He stated that he had two vivid memories - his grandfather and Jesus. So, he has two physical photo collaboration's embeded in his mind that his parents happen to have and have showed him throughout these years. That makes his memory questionable.

If his parents told him that he said he saw a "rainbow" horse that belonged to Jesus, he is going to say that he remembers that.

At first I thought he may have possibly had some type of experience, but now I am not sure he has had one at all.

I'm going to have to agree with Bro. Benincasa on this.

When reading the book you see that the father was struggling with his church and with his garage door business. My "opinion" is that the book was an idea by the father to put something together to make some money. Now he is making bank. I do believe the child may have said somethings which gave Todd Burpo the idea to jell out a story, but to say it was "for real" I personally don't buy it.

[houston]

You'll have to be satisfied with your tattooed arm. That's all the rainbow you'll be getting. :heeheehee

What are you implying? This is like a hate post.

[Ferd]

Just saw this move last week. It was an okay movie. When he said that Jesus was on a "rainbow" horse, I felt I needed to read the book. My DIL happened to have purchased it and I read it last night.

I have news for little boy Colton:

"And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne." Revelation 4:2

Page 95: Speaking of his sister that was stillborn. "It's okay Mommy," he said. "She's okay. God adopted her."

"Don't you mean Jesus adopted her?" she said.

"No Mommy. His Dad did."

What?

Page 100: "God is the biggest one there is. And he really, really loves us, Dad. You can't belieeeeve how much he loves us!"

"And do you know that Jesus sits right next to God?"

"Jesus' chair is right next to his Dad's!"

Page 101: "Well, pretend like you're in God's throne. Jesus sat right there," he said pointing to my right side.

Page 102: So, I'd had my glimpse into God's throne room, but Colton's descriptions had me wondering: if God the Father was seated on his throne with Jesus on his right and Gabriel on his left, where was Colton?

"They brought in a little chair for me," he said smiling. "I sat by God the Holy Spirit. Did you know that God is three persons, Dad?"

"I was sitting by God the Holy Spirit because I was praying for you. You needed the Holy Spirit, so I prayed for you."

So, I closed the book......

yea... Mrs. Ferd has been reading it. She handed me the book when she read that....

im out.

[Pressing-On]

What are you implying? This is like a hate post.

It was! 'Cause you know I always think about how much I hate you, right? :gaga

[Pressing-On]

yea... Mrs. Ferd has been reading it. She handed me the book when she read that....

im out.

The movie doesn't really reflect the blatant view in the book, unless I missed it. It was kind of boring, so I am sure I wasn't paying very close attention. I was probably playing Sudoku while the movie was on. LOL!

It really ticked me off for some reason. Maybe I felt the deeper dishonesty of it.

[crakjak]

So everyone is saved? Sounds like Hinduism.


http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o304/Undyingsoul1/ObamaJoeKrishna.jpg


Everyone gets converted, all are reconciled to God by the finished work of Jesus. Jesus work at the cross was to UNDO Adam, He came into the creation to redeem the creation. He is the cure to the disease, and was so from the foundation of the world. All thru the finished work of God's plan of redemption.

Is your god, one that cannot finish what he started, cannot redeem his creation because of the foolish act of one of his creatures?????

[crakjak]

The only thing with him coming through an OP lens is that it wouldn't have contradicted the Bible. That's, like, a big, red, no-brainer flag. :heeheehee

I Googled his interview on the Today show and noticed that his father and mother spoke for him. Why wouldn't they? He is twelve now. He also sounded rehearsed.

One thing that struck me as odd, from the book, is that the father said it took "months and years" to get the full story from Colton. That is very odd as a 4 year old generally talks your ear off about an experience he has had or a place he has been.

During the interview he was asked what vivid memories he still remembers. He stated that he had two vivid memories - his grandfather and Jesus. So, he has two physical photo collaboration's embeded in his mind that his parents happen to have and have showed him throughout these years. That makes his memory questionable.

If his parents told him that he said he saw a "rainbow" horse that belonged to Jesus, he is going to say that he remembers that.

At first I thought he may have possibly had some type of experience, but now I am not sure he has had one at all.

I'm going to have to agree with Bro. Benincasa on this.

Like I said, had it been an OP, many here would have lapped it up. :heeheehee

I read the book when it first came out, I don't like the movie nor the current interviews.
I don't defend it, because I disagree with most of the theology that the family espouses.

[Pressing-On]

Like I said, had it been an OP, many here would have lapped it up. :heeheehee

I read the book when it first came out, I don't like the movie nor the current interviews.
I don't defend it, because I disagree with most of the theology that the family espouses.

Well, at least the movie God's Not Dead emphatically said that Jesus was God. I was impressed with that movie. Some cheesy elements, but they got the debate down really well.

[Shawn]

Anyone remotely interested should watch some of Eben Alexander's, as well as Howard Storm and Anita Moorjani's to name a scant few.

[votivesoul]

In the days of Jeremiah, when false prophets were propping up their dreams as signs and omens from God, God used Jeremiah to rhetorically ask the people "What is the chaff compared to the wheat"?

It's the same thing with NDE's or Near Death Experiences. Like dreams, they may be interesting, they even be fascinating, and some may be accurate, and some may even be from God---all well and good---but what is the chaff compared to the wheat?

The wheat, i.e. the Word of God, is all that matters in the end. The rest gets blown away by the wind.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Everyone gets converted, all are reconciled to God by the finished work of Jesus. Jesus work at the cross was to UNDO Adam, He came into the creation to redeem the creation. He is the cure to the disease, and was so from the foundation of the world. All thru the finished work of God's plan of redemption.

Is your god, one that cannot finish what he started, cannot redeem his creation because of the foolish act of one of his creatures?????

CJ in Acts 2:38 Peter told them to repent on the day of Pentecost, in Acts 17:30 the Apostle Paul addresses the Areopagus concerning the false doctrines among the Greeks, and states that in the past God overlooked the ignorance of men, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. CJ, your teaching causes more questions then it answers.

While your doctrine is fine for Hindus (in Hinduism even demons can obtain a salvation) but in Christianity your teaching hits a wall. Sorry, but Jesus commanded that all men REPENT! Yet, sadly that isn't what some men what to do. Hence freewill plays in this, but in Hinduism and Calvinism there isn't any freewill but fate, either you are predestined to hell or heaven.

Yet, in your paradigm you hold a sort of Hyper Calvinism (to be honest what you believe stands Hyper Calvinism on its head) your teaching places everyone from sinner to saint ending up in heaven. Jesus said it was finished at the cross, but the book of Acts still have a ministry baptizing and commanding all to repent.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Anyone remotely interested should watch some of Eben Alexander's, as well as Howard Storm and Anita Moorjani's to name a scant few.

Thank you for bringing them up. :)

When a Hindu has a near death experience and they see Krishna does that mean Krishna is real to them or to us?

[Evang.Benincasa]

I don't defend it, because I disagree with most of the theology that the family espouses.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o304/Undyingsoul1/dalai-lama-laugh.gif

[crakjak]

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o304/Undyingsoul1/dalai-lama-laugh.gif

You're a very worldly man.

[Evang.Benincasa]

You're a very worldly man.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o304/Undyingsoul1/BrotherWiltcherAngry.gif

[crakjak]

CJ in Acts 2:38 Peter told them to repent on the day of Pentecost, in Acts 17:30 the Apostle Paul addresses the Areopagus concerning the false doctrines among the Greeks, and states that in the past God overlooked the ignorance of men, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. CJ, your teaching causes more questions then it answers.

While your doctrine is fine for Hindus (in Hinduism even demons can obtain a salvation) but in Christianity your teaching hits a wall. Sorry, but Jesus commanded that all men REPENT! Yet, sadly that isn't what some men what to do. Hence freewill plays in this, but in Hinduism and Calvinism there isn't any freewill but fate, either you are predestined to hell or heaven.

Yet, in your paradigm you hold a sort of Hyper Calvinism (to be honest what you believe stands Hyper Calvinism on its head) your teaching places everyone from sinner to saint ending up in heaven. Jesus said it was finished at the cross, but the book of Acts still have a ministry baptizing and commanding all to repent.

Repentance is necessary to enter into life, our response is very important, but it is not our response that saves us. Our response is simply entering into what Jesus has already completed. No problem here with the book of Acts. "AS IN ADAM....." the many were condemned, "LIKEWISE IN CHRIST...." the many are given life. The same MANY in both cases, "...with GOD all things are possible....." My question still stands, "HOW COULD THE ACT OF ONE OF HIS CREATURES CONDEMN THE WHOLE OF THE HUMAN RACE, YET THE ACT OF THE SON OF GOD DOSEN'T?" Oh, you of little faith!!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Repentance is necessary to enter into life, our response is very important, but it is not our response that saves us. Our response is simply entering into what Jesus has already completed. No problem here with the book of Acts.

Please explain what YOU mean by "our response?"

[Evang.Benincasa]

CJ what is your definition of repentance?

[crakjak]

CJ what is your definition of repentance?

Come to faith in the finished work of Christ, acknowledge the error of one's ways, and commit to walk with Him. As one walks with Him, studying the Word and allowing the Spirit to guide and fill them, His righteousness becomes a natural outflowing of relationship with the Living God. Baptism is important to public acknowledge ones commitment to follow Jesus, and embrace His earthly body and community.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Come to faith in the finished work of Christ, acknowledge the error of one's ways, and commit to walk with Him. As one walks with Him, studying the Word and allowing the Spirit to guide and fill them, His righteousness becomes a natural outflowing of relationship with the Living God. Baptism is important to public acknowledge ones commitment to follow Jesus, and embrace His earthly body and community.

CJ, so your meaning of "it is not our response that saves us?"

Please explain this thought?

[crakjak]

Please explain what YOU mean by "our response?"

Nothing we do saves us, Jesus has already completed that. However, our response is necessary to actually enter into the life that is possible because of that finished work of God.

Christians do all kinds of things to "please" God, it is all "filthy rags" to make us right with God. Muslims, Buddhists, and your favorite Hindus, also do all kinds of things to try to "please" God. It is all worthless to save.

However, if one says they believe and continue in their sin, they reap the harvest not of the life that is theirs in Christ.

If I really believe, I will also pursue knowing God and desiring His righteous fruit in my life, trusting Him to bring it about.

All worldly religions believe in an angry God, bent on punishment, rather than the true God, who is for us, and always has been. The delusion in human minds, are in the manmade gods, mythological god of manmade religion.

The wrath of God was/is on the evil that has overtaken his creation, and Jesus Christ is His response. Jesus was literally God entering into His creation to UNDO Adam, and He has cured the disease, sin and death are defeated, and will soon be completely destroyed, then God will be "...ALL IN ALL..." Then "... every knee will bow and every mouth will confess...to the glory of God the Father..."
He entered into the creation, took on our sin, darkness, and our death, and He will completely redeem the WHOLE creation, which is the result of His completed work at the cross, and just as importantly the incarnation.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Repentance is necessary to enter into life, our response is very important, but it is not our response that saves us. Our response is simply entering into what Jesus has already completed. No problem here with the book of Acts. "AS IN ADAM....." the many were condemned, "LIKEWISE IN CHRIST...." the many are given life. The same MANY in both cases, "...with GOD all things are possible....." My question still stands, "HOW COULD THE ACT OF ONE OF HIS CREATURES CONDEMN THE WHOLE OF THE HUMAN RACE, YET THE ACT OF THE SON OF GOD DOSEN'T?" Oh, you of little faith!!

WOW! How did I miss all this? :heeheehee

You see this is where you get into question begging.

You state since sin was brought into the world by one ADAM therefore by one JESUS we ALL gain salvation? In your system, since we didn't do anything "personally" to be damned therefore we don't have to anything "personally" to be saved? Is this what you are saying yes, or no?

[crakjak]

CJ, so your meaning of "it is not our response that saves us?"

Please explain this thought?

My response to Jesus finished work is not to get God to save me. My response is entering into relationship with God, Jesus made that possible. Israel couldn't endure the mountain, because of the gulf between God and man, Jesus as a man bridged that gulf and brought all of humanity with Him.

As the scripture says, I died with Christ, I was raised with Christ, and I am now seated with Christ at the right hand of the Father. That is the position NOW of all mankind, and as soon as the Body of Christ declare these facts, the Good News will cover the earth "... as the waters cover the seas..." He has completely UNDONE Adam, man is reconciled to God.

We don't know who we are, we've lost our identity, and our home address, Jesus came to create the way home. Now the Father is looking longingly for every prodigal to "come to himself" and head for home.

[crakjak]

WOW! How did I miss all this? :heeheehee

You see this is where you get into question begging.

You state since sin was brought into the world by one ADAM therefore by one JESUS we ALL gain salvation? In your system, since we didn't do anything "personally" to be damned therefore we don't have to anything "personally" to be saved? Is this what you are saying yes, or no?

I'm saying we CAN NOT to anything to save ourselves, it requires a work of the Creator. Man has always been at work to save himself, but has always failed.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Nothing we do saves us, Jesus has already completed that. However, our response is necessary to actually enter into the life that is possible because of that finished work of God.

This is puzzling because in the below post you make statements which contradict themselves unless you can clarify. But you never seem to clear this up. Repentance is necessary? Do you know the definition of the word necessary? OUR RESPONSE is IMPORTANT? Again, do you understand the definition of the word important? If our response to the Gospel is important, and necessary, then how can our response not be part of salvation? You know Peter does say "save yourself from this untoward generation." John writes in 1st John 3:3 that we are to purify ourselves as He is pure. Therefore you comments concerning your doctrine are very contrary to your own statements of what is "necessary" and what's "important."

Repentance is necessary to enter into life, our response is very important, but it is not our response that saves us. Our response is simply entering into what Jesus has already completed. No problem here with the book of Acts.


Christians do all kinds of things to "please" God, it is all "filthy rags" to make us right with God. Muslims, Buddhists, and your favorite Hindus, also do all kinds of things to try to "please" God. It is all worthless to save.

Favorite is Apostolic. :)

Hindus are brought up because they remind me of Hyper Calvinists. :nod

Please God? Yet, you are saved by Grace but are still judged by works, hence James in his epistle, plus the warnings to the churches in the book of the Revelation. Jesus tells the churches "I know thy Works?'

Remember you said "necessary" and "important" care to clarify those two words and what they mean to you?



However, if one says they believe and continue in their sin, they reap the harvest not of the life that is theirs in Christ.

So, if you continue in"sin," then isn't that a response?


If I really believe, I will also pursue knowing God and desiring His righteous fruit in my life, trusting Him to bring it about.

CJ, really believe? To pursue? You are pursuing something, therefore it is a response to the what you are trying to obtain. Meaning you are doing something! Desire? Would you care to give your definition of the word desire? It seems to me that your teaching has a whole lot of "doing" going on? These things which you claim to be "necessary" and "important."



All worldly religions believe in an angry God, bent on punishment, rather than the true God, who is for us, and always has been. The delusion in human minds, are in the manmade gods, mythological god of manmade religion.

Sorry, but you still have to deal with Jesus saying broad is the way to damnation and narrow is the way to eternal life. Jesus says one doorway is wide to damnation and the other one is tight to eternal life, but few a small number which enters into eternal life. God is for us, but we are the ones with the problem, not Him.



The wrath of God was/is on the evil that has overtaken his creation, and Jesus Christ is His response. Jesus was literally God entering into His creation to UNDO Adam, and He has cured the disease, sin and death are defeated, and will soon be completely destroyed, then God will be "...ALL IN ALL..." Then "... every knee will bow and every mouth will confess...to the glory of God the Father..."
He entered into the creation, took on our sin, darkness, and our death, and He will completely redeem the WHOLE creation, which is the result of His completed work at the cross, and just as importantly the incarnation.


Yet, we are back to doing things which are "necessary" and "important" your words not mine.


Please explain your thoughts. ;)

[Shawn]

Thank you for bringing them up. :)

When a Hindu has a near death experience and they see Krishna does that mean Krishna is real to them or to us?

Just stirring the pot a little.
I'm not Hindu, but I think Christ died for hindu's too.

[n david]

Is this what you are saying yes, or no?

EB is CJManzell/Robert Sanders/Trying2DoRight!!!!!

Does your righteousness exceed my righteousness? Yes or no?

:heeheehee

[Evang.Benincasa]

Just stirring the pot a little.
I'm not Hindu, but I think Christ died for hindu's too.

I believe Jesus was crucified and resurrected for all mankind to be saved, but all mankind isn't saved unless the enter into the salvation which Jesus obtained.

I also understand the pot stirring, but the question remains, when a Hindu has a near death experience and sees Vishnu does that mean Vishnu is real to them or to us?

[Evang.Benincasa]

EB is CJManzell/Robert Sanders/Trying2DoRight!!!!!



:heeheehee

You had a big bowl of Mini-Wheats today I see. :nod

[n david]

You had a big bowl of Mini-Wheats today I see. :nod

:lol Nah, Raisin Bran w/no HFCS. :nod

[Evang.Benincasa]

:lol Nah, Raisin Bran w/no HFCS. :nod

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/now-bran-can-be-bad-for-you-1153173.html

http://www.drbriffa.com/2010/12/28/think-bran-is-good-for-the-bowels-think-again/

[n david]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/now-bran-can-be-bad-for-you-1153173.html

http://www.drbriffa.com/2010/12/28/think-bran-is-good-for-the-bowels-think-again/
:kickcan

[Evang.Benincasa]

:kickcan

Isn't that crazy stuff about bran?

[n david]

Isn't that crazy stuff about bran?
Can't eat anything anymore!

I'm beginning to agree with Mark Lowry: "Eat healthy, exercise daily and die anyway."

[Pressing-On]

Can't eat anything anymore!

I'm beginning to agree with Mark Lowry: "Eat healthy, exercise daily and die anyway."

"Make a pretty corpse." :heeheehee

[Evang.Benincasa]

Can't eat anything anymore!

I'm beginning to agree with Mark Lowry: "Eat healthy, exercise daily and die anyway."

Eternal life is through Christ.

So, we aren't trying to be immortal, we just want to eat right so we can have quality of life.

I also guess it would be nice to be able to fit in our coffins. :)

[Timmy]

The only thing with him coming through an OP lens is that it wouldn't have contradicted the Bible. That's, like, a big, red, no-brainer flag. :heeheehee
. . .

You know, I can easily see this comment made in a trinnie forum, replacing "OP lens" with "Trinitarian lens", if the situation were reversed. :lol

[Pressing-On]

Eternal life is through Christ.

So, we aren't trying to be immortal, we just want to eat right so we can have quality of life.

I also guess it would be nice to be able to fit in our coffins. :)

Hahahahahahahahahahaha! :thumbsup

[Pressing-On]

You know, I can easily see this comment made in a trinnie forum, replacing "OP lens" with "Trinitarian lens", if the situation were reversed. :lol

Except the Bible doesn't support a Trinitarian view, so it's still a no-brainer. :heeheehee

There is ONE throne and ONE that sits on the throne. Don't know how we can get around that.

[Timmy]

You know, I can easily see this comment made in a trinnie forum, replacing "OP lens" with "Trinitarian lens", if the situation were reversed. :lol

By the way, what would an OP four-year-old see on a trip to Heaven? One God, of course, whose name is Jesus, I guess.... But certainly not Jesus sitting at the right hand of God. I guess. :heeheehee

[Evang.Benincasa]

You know, I can easily see this comment made in a trinnie forum, replacing "OP lens" with "Trinitarian lens", if the situation were reversed. :lol

How about his lenses?

http://www.4to40.com/images/egreetings/Gandhi_Jayanti/Portrait_of_Mahatma-Gandhi_Jayanti-135_big.gif

LOL

[Timmy]

Hey, look what I found in TrinnyFriendsForum!
Except the Bible doesn't support a Oneness view, so it's still a no-brainer. :heeheehee



:toofunny

[Timmy]

How about his lenses?

http://www.4to40.com/images/egreetings/Gandhi_Jayanti/Portrait_of_Mahatma-Gandhi_Jayanti-135_big.gif

LOL

His lenses must be multifaceted. :lol

[Pressing-On]

By the way, what would an OP four-year-old see on a trip to Heaven? One God, of course, whose name is Jesus, I guess.... But certainly not Jesus sitting at the right hand of God. I guess. :heeheehee
Well, my view of heaven from a dream I had. I couldn't see Jesus' face, but he was sitting and wearing a bright, white linen gown. A line of people were waiting to stand before Him. I was kneeling before him and wanted to reach out and grab his ankles, but I didn't. I was crying and saying, "Thank you for letting me come here."

All of that may not be how it plays out, but what I came away with from the dream is that, aside from all the people waiting to see Him, He had his full attention on me as though no one else was there. It just meant to me how personal we are to Him as an individual.

And it feels the same way, in a church setting, when His presence is there to set the captive free and to undo the heavy burden.

[Evang.Benincasa]

His lenses must be multifaceted. :lol

Then this must be the Atheist?

http://media.giphy.com/media/qymIjJYQn2EJq/giphy.gif

[Pressing-On]

Then this must be the Atheist?

http://media.giphy.com/media/qymIjJYQn2EJq/giphy.gif

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

[Timmy]

Then this must be the Atheist?

http://media.giphy.com/media/qymIjJYQn2EJq/giphy.gif

:lol

[crakjak]

This is puzzling because in the below post you make statements which contradict themselves unless you can clarify. But you never seem to clear this up. Repentance is necessary? Do you know the definition of the word necessary? OUR RESPONSE is IMPORTANT? Again, do you understand the definition of the word important? If our response to the Gospel is important, and necessary, then how can our response not be part of salvation? You know Peter does say "save yourself from this untoward generation." John writes in 1st John 3:3 that we are to purify ourselves as He is pure. Therefore you comments concerning your doctrine are very contrary to your own statements of what is "necessary" and what's "important."





Favorite is Apostolic. :)

Hindus are brought up because they remind me of Hyper Calvinists. :nod

Please God? Yet, you are saved by Grace but are still judged by works, hence James in his epistle, plus the warnings to the churches in the book of the Revelation. Jesus tells the churches "I know thy Works?'

Remember you said "necessary" and "important" care to clarify those two words and what they mean to you?




So, if you continue in"sin," then isn't that a response?



CJ, really believe? To pursue? You are pursuing something, therefore it is a response to the what you are trying to obtain. Meaning you are doing something! Desire? Would you care to give your definition of the word desire? It seems to me that your teaching has a whole lot of "doing" going on? These things which you claim to be "necessary" and "important."




Sorry, but you still have to deal with Jesus saying broad is the way to damnation and narrow is the way to eternal life. Jesus says one doorway is wide to damnation and the other one is tight to eternal life, but few a small number which enters into eternal life. God is for us, but we are the ones with the problem, not Him.





Yet, we are back to doing things which are "necessary" and "important" your words not mine.


Please explain your thoughts. ;)

No one is redeemed without embracing the finished work of Jesus, I simply believe all eventually will. There are necessary responses to enter into the life that is ours in Christ. And all will, HE never gives up, never allows evil to prevail. He will never preserve evil in a torture chamber nor death, all evil will eventually be completely eradicated from ALL of God's creation.

[Evang.Benincasa]

No one is redeemed without embracing the finished work of Jesus, I simply believe all eventually will. There are necessary responses to enter into the life that is ours in Christ. And all will, HE never gives up, never allows evil to prevail. He will never preserve evil in a torture chamber nor death, all evil will eventually be completely eradicated from ALL of God's creation.

What about John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy, Adolf Hitler, Caligula, and Nero or any others who have surpassed these men in evil, and have died, will they also be part of the "all" who are saved? If yes, then explain how, and provide scripture.

[crakjak]

What about John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy, Adolf Hitler, Caligula, and Nero or any others who have surpassed these men in evil, and have died, will they also be part of the "all" who are saved? If yes, then explain how, and provide scripture.

I would not want to go thru the purifying process that those guys are/or will be going thru.

[Pressing-On]

I would not want to go thru the purifying process that those guys are/or will be going thru.

Isn't the "purifying process", after death, like Purgatory in Catholicism?

[Evang.Benincasa]

I would not want to go thru the purifying process that those guys are/or will be going thru.

Exactly what I was waiting for CJ.

Now would you please be so kind to explain the purifying process they will be going through? Could you also make sure you provide the scriptures?


Thank you. :)

[Evang.Benincasa]

Isn't the "purifying process", after death, like Purgatory in Catholicism?

Here you go.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Gospel-Inclusion-Religious-Fundamentalism/dp/B005EP23NI

[FlamingZword]

Here you go.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Gospel-Inclusion-Religious-Fundamentalism/dp/B005EP23NI

Man what a great deal, if I am going to be saved anyone, I might as well go back to drinking and partying like there is no tomorrow.

I am wasting my time even reading the Bible.

Come on everyone let us eat and drink and be merry for tomorrow we die, and the day after we all go into heaven. whoopee. :icecream

[Pressing-On]

Here you go.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Gospel-Inclusion-Religious-Fundamentalism/dp/B005EP23NI

Except that Catholicism does believe in hell. But, probably in order not to lose members, they give you a bit of a reprieve before judgment day - purgatory. So, all is not lost. :heeheehee

[Evang.Benincasa]

Except that Catholicism does believe in hell. But, probably in order not to lose members, they give you a bit of a reprieve before judgment day - purgatory. So, all is not lost. :heeheehee

Well, to be fair let's see what CJ will present on how rapists and pedophiles will be purified to be welcomed into to heaven.

Sure doesn't reconcile with the words of Jesus where He says "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels."

Yet, CJ can probably shed some Illuminati on this subject. :heeheehee

[ixoye_val69]

Then this must be the Atheist?

http://media.giphy.com/media/qymIjJYQn2EJq/giphy.gif

hahahahahahaha you have a .gif for every occasion. LOL

[ixoye_val69]

No one is redeemed without embracing the finished work of Jesus, I simply believe all eventually will. There are necessary responses to enter into the life that is ours in Christ. And all will, HE never gives up, never allows evil to prevail. He will never preserve evil in a torture chamber nor death, all evil will eventually be completely eradicated from ALL of God's creation.

Although this is a lovely thought, the fact that Jesus says in Matt 7:20-23
(someone may have already mentioned this)

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Well that totally contradicts what you said

[ixoye_val69]

Except that Catholicism does believe in hell. But, probably in order not to lose members, they give you a bit of a reprieve before judgment day - purgatory. So, all is not lost. :heeheehee

They also collect money for a special Mass. I guess they think they can pray someone out of purgatory? smh

[Pressing-On]

They also collect money for a special Mass. I guess they think they can pray someone out of purgatory? smh

Yes, they do and they also collect if you get a divorce. Can't pray your way into the good graces of God, you gotta pay. :heeheehee

[crakjak]

Although this is a lovely thought, the fact that Jesus says in Matt 7:20-23
(someone may have already mentioned this)

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Well that totally contradicts what you said

Yes, the tree that doesn't bear fruit is cut down and cast into the fire. The question is what is this fire, and what is the result.

Do you embrace the traditional hell that makes God the master of the greatest horror ever imagined? That He preserves evil in a supernatural torture chamber without end or ultimate purpose. That is the god of traditional mythology. The god developed by the Roman church, enforced by Roman sword.

Can't be true, so you have to dig deeper for the truth.

[crakjak]

Well, to be fair let's see what CJ will present on how rapists and pedophiles will be purified to be welcomed into to heaven.

Sure doesn't reconcile with the words of Jesus where He says "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels."

Yet, CJ can probably shed some Illuminati on this subject. :heeheehee

Simple, Jesus is the Savior of the whole world, that is His job, not mine.
I Tim. 4:10

[Evang.Benincasa]

Although this is a lovely thought, the fact that Jesus says in Matt 7:20-23
(someone may have already mentioned this)

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Well that totally contradicts what you said

Amen! :highfive

[n david]

Love wins!

:icecream

[Evang.Benincasa]

Yes, the tree that doesn't bear fruit is cut down and cast into the fire. The question is what is this fire, and what is the result.

Sorry, but the doctrine of purgatory is of Greek pagan origins. The Bible whether in the Old or New has no basis for a purgatory. Sorry, but the idea of a purgatory doesn't fly.



Do you embrace the traditional

This is becoming like some sort of bad word, traditional. Do you believe in a "traditional" salvation, do you believe in the "traditional" Jesus? Do you believe in the "traditional" diet. My lands, try bringing up book, chapter, and verse, to disprove anything that came before to see whether it was preached by the apostles. Just because it been around for 2,000 years doesn't make it wrong. After a while you guys start to sound like car dealers "new and improved, not like the traditional headlights, but way brighter at least 5000 lumens!"

CJ I think it was better when you post and answer your own post. :nod


Do you embrace the traditional hell that makes God the master of the greatest horror ever imagined?

Ah CJ, sorry but this argument is from Annihilationists who don't hold to any after life punishment. You my friend believe in purgatory. If you are tortured for an hour to week it is still classified as torture. You need to find some other dramatic pleas for your doctrine's credibility.



That He preserves evil in a supernatural torture chamber without end or ultimate purpose.

Wait, but you have the souls of the wicked going through Dante's inferno, to be purged until they cry uncle and are released into heavenly bliss. Saṃsāra the cycle of life within Buddhist thought believe that souls are constantly reincarnated in attempts to learn lessons to ascend suffering. The purging process is in Buddhism, Hinduism, and Western Romanism. It is pagan in origin, and was adopted by the Roman Catholic Church. Again, you need to find another way to dramatically demonize a burning lake of fire, because your purgatory is not any better than the "traditional" hell.


That is the god of traditional mythology. The god developed by the Roman church, enforced by Roman sword.

Also baptized pagan purgatory in the Roman church.



Can't be true, so you have to dig deeper for the truth.

It can't be true because CJ said so. You have to dig deeper, but that deeper digging is not done anywhere near a Bible.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Love wins!

:icecream

http://www.naturalnews.com/023849_ice_cream_chemicals_health.html

[shazeep]

i was quite excited when i read the cover of this book--purportedly a story told by a kid who had had a near-death experience! Unfortunately, the kid has a preacher for a father, who can't get out of the way of his son's story :(

[mfblume]

Christianity has made it for 2,000 years and running, and your short life span will not even dent it. When you and I are gone, it will still march on unaffected by our opinions. That will be the last laugh. L O L. :)

Amen and amen.

[crakjak]

Sorry, but the doctrine of purgatory is of Greek pagan origins. The Bible whether in the Old or New has no basis for a purgatory. Sorry, but the idea of a purgatory doesn't fly.




This is becoming like some sort of bad word, traditional. Do you believe in a "traditional" salvation, do you believe in the "traditional" Jesus? Do you believe in the "traditional" diet. My lands, try bringing up book, chapter, and verse, to disprove anything that came before to see whether it was preached by the apostles. Just because it been around for 2,000 years doesn't make it wrong. After a while you guys start to sound like car dealers "new and improved, not like the traditional headlights, but way brighter at least 5000 lumens!"

CJ I think it was better when you post and answer your own post. :nod



Ah CJ, sorry but this argument is from Annihilationists who don't hold to any after life punishment. You my friend believe in purgatory. If you are tortured for an hour to week it is still classified as torture. You need to find some other dramatic pleas for your doctrine's credibility.




Wait, but you have the souls of the wicked going through Dante's inferno, to be purged until they cry uncle and are released into heavenly bliss. Saṃsāra the cycle of life within Buddhist thought believe that souls are constantly reincarnated in attempts to learn lessons to ascend suffering. The purging process is in Buddhism, Hinduism, and Western Romanism. It is pagan in origin, and was adopted by the Roman Catholic Church. Again, you need to find another way to dramatically demonize a burning lake of fire, because your purgatory is not any better than the "traditional" hell.



Also baptized pagan purgatory in the Roman church.




It can't be true because CJ said so. You have to dig deeper, but that deeper digging is not done anywhere near a Bible.

So you say! Review my history of posts, I have presented a wealth of scripture to support my views, as well as history to support that it was a common view in the early church for the first five hundred years. The Latin influence and Rome influenced the shift to eternal damnation. I stand with many great Christian believers both pass and present. I don't believe in purgatory, I believe our God is a purifying fire, His presents is all it will take and it will be only as long as it takes to burn up the evil in each individual, and the evil is what burns, not God's creation.

[Evang.Benincasa]

So you say! Review my history of posts, I have presented a wealth of scripture to support my views, as well as history to support that it was a common view in the early church for the first five hundred years. The Latin influence and Rome influenced the shift to eternal damnation. I stand with many great Christian believers both pass and present.

Everyone from Jehovah Witnesses to the Eastern Orthodox church can present a wealth of scripture, plus also load everyone to arms full with history for their particular position. Yet, the most simplest of Christian students can see what you are teaching is contrary to Book, chapter, and verse. This isn't a personal slight towards you, it doesn't make you a bad person, you just believe in a teaching which makes some really wrong conclusions when it comes to soteriology. Jesus said that the way into eternal life was narrow and the door had a small opening, Jesus also refused those access because He stated He NEVER knew them. John in the Revelation makes the comment that what he called a lake of fire would have the grave thrown into it, and in that lake souls would be tormented day and night forever and ever. No break, no lemon aid, no stopping. Instead of getting upset deal with the hard questions which are posed.


I have never presented a believe in purgatory, you don't accept what I post as posted you drag up all kinds unrelated beliefs and say that what I believe. Never have you actually argued directly my positions. So, I will not start over trying to present my positions with you, for you have ears but no hearing.

Drag up all kinds of unrelated beliefs? Brother you believe in a purgatory, I asked you to clarify and you gave me an "unrelated" verse. CJ you claim that since all were under sin because of Adam all are saved because of Christ. Yet, if you don't access that salvation you are lost, plain and simple.


Never have you actually argued directly my positions.

This above statement is not true. Ever since you went into this teaching, I have refuted your position. You have failed to prove what you believe.

[Pressing-On]

i was quite excited when i read the cover of this book--purportedly a story told by a kid who had had a near-death experience! Unfortunately, the kid has a preacher for a father, who can't get out of the way of his son's story :(

Apparently, that's the case.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Apparently, that's the case.

When you read the story it's really about the dad more than about the boy.

[crakjak]

Everyone from Jehovah Witnesses to the Eastern Orthodox church can present a wealth of scripture, plus also load everyone to arms full with history for their particular position. Yet, the most simplest of Christian students can see what you are teaching is contrary to Book, chapter, and verse. This isn't a personal slight towards you, it doesn't make you a bad person, you just believe in a teaching which makes some really wrong conclusions when it comes to soteriology. Jesus said that the way into eternal life was narrow and the door had a small opening, Jesus also refused those access because He stated He NEVER knew them. John in the Revelation makes the comment that what he called a lake of fire would have the grave thrown into it, and in that lake souls would be tormented day and night forever and ever. No break, no lemon aid, no stopping. Instead of getting upset deal with the hard questions which are posed.




Drag up all kinds of unrelated beliefs? Brother you believe in a purgatory, I asked you to clarify and you gave me an "unrelated" verse. CJ you claim that since all were under sin because of Adam all are saved because of Christ. Yet, if you don't access that salvation you are lost, plain and simple.




This above statement is not true. Ever since you went into this teaching, I have refuted your position. You have failed to prove what you believe.

I understand you believe they are wrong conclusions, in my opinion and studied belief they are correct conclusions.

No, they are not lost, just haven't enter in, YET. You misunderstand my view, but you still won't agree, of that I'm quite sure.

I can't "prove" my point, anymore that you can "prove" yours, we can only share our point of view. Or at least that is what we should do, but you don't seem to be able do that, because you"re so caustic in your responses.

[crakjak]

So you say! Review my history of posts, I have presented a wealth of scripture to support my views, as well as history to support that it was a common view in the early church for the first five hundred years. The Latin influence and Rome influenced the shift to eternal damnation. I stand with many great Christian believers both pass and present. I don't believe in purgatory, I believe our God is a purifying fire, His presents is all it will take and it will be only as long as it takes to burn up the evil in each individual, and the evil is what burns, not God's creation.

"His presence"

[Evang.Benincasa]

I understand you believe they are wrong conclusions, in my opinion and studied belief they are correct conclusions.

While you are not on the same level as these individuals, David Moses Berg, or David Koresh, both men believed that their studies led them to the original truth of the apostles. Yet, by shining the light of the word of God upon their doctrines you will find they are both wrong. Jeffrey Dahmer, and Osama Ben Laden are not currently undergoing some sort of purification so they can enter into the heavenly realm of Christ. Our Bible doesn't offer second chances after death, especially water boarding on the third rung of some sort of Baptist purgatory.


No, they are not lost, just haven't enter in, YET. You misunderstand my view, but you still won't agree, of that I'm quite sure.

You are sure that I won't agree because you yourself know that your doctrine isn't one that can be understood by Book, chapter, and verse, but must come through some special revelation? Or else you know that what you teach is so unbelievable that you yourself don't really believe it, but you are just hoping for hope? Hoping that when you die you don't get shown door number 3, and a bon voyage accompanied with the farewell words from Christ, "I never knew you."



I can't "prove" my point, anymore that you can "prove" yours, we can only share our point of view.

Hence after all these years this is where you are ending up? Where you can't prove what you believe, and therefore have reserved yourself to believe that everyone is in the same boat as you? I'm sorry, I really am.


Or at least that is what we should do, but you don't seem to be able do that, because you"re so caustic in your responses.

Caustic? No, not caustic, just asking you questions which you are unable to answer. Caustic is having you admit to a purgatory where the unrighteous wicked dead go to be "purified?" Not caustic my friend, just asking the questions. :)

[ixoye_val69]

Yes, the tree that doesn't bear fruit is cut down and cast into the fire. The question is what is this fire, and what is the result.

Do you embrace the traditional hell that makes God the master of the greatest horror ever imagined? That He preserves evil in a supernatural torture chamber without end or ultimate purpose. That is the god of traditional mythology. The god developed by the Roman church, enforced by Roman sword.

Can't be true, so you have to dig deeper for the truth.

Hell was not originally made for people. From what I understand it was made for satan and the fallen angels who rebelled against God. There are people who rebel against Him also so why would they not deserve the same fate?

Explain this verse to me please...


Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels

Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

define "everlasting"... I don't mean to be rude

Nowhere does it say that they will be sent to a form of punishment but will be released after they have a chance to be purified.

Those who believe that people will be burned in the lake of fire to the point of non existence make more sense than what you are saying.

Can you show me a verse that speaks of purification of a person AFTER that person has died? Again I am not trying to be rude..I really want to know if there is any. If there is, post it and we all can discuss it.

Also let me just say...that whether or not the eternal punishment is actually burning in a fire or other tortures is irrelevant to me (well maybe irrelevant is not the best word to use but you know what I mean). The fact that there is a possibility to be eternally separated from my God is Hell enough for me.

[ixoye_val69]

Back to the subject of the thread..LOL I have not seen this movie or read the book but was wondering what was this boy's message when he "returned"? If a person comes back from a near death experience and does not have the message of salvation through Jesus.. or if a person walks away feeling all warm and fuzzy thinking that EVERYone is going to heaven then a red flag goes up. If they come back with info contradicting the word of God saying they have a new revelation...again that red flag goes up.

I have seen interviews and read articles about this movie and the boy to me does seem to be rehearsed, but I guess only he and God really knows the truth about what happened. Some of the things that he knew seems amazing on the surface but I believe that since Satan is also around during out lives and knows intimate things about us, who is to say that it was not him who gave that boy his info. Again...only God knows and if it is all a lie then God will be the one to judge.

[houston]

The message is that Jesus rides a faaaabulos rainbow horse... And the Holy Spirit is blue and shoots down beams I power to help us.

[FlamingZword]

The message is that Jesus rides a faaaabulos rainbow horse... And the Holy Spirit is blue and shoots down beams I power to help us.

It's a miracle.
for once I find myself in agreement with Houston.
it is all a bunch of hooey. :heeheehee

[Disciple4life]

So you say! Review my history of posts, I have presented a wealth of scripture to support my views, as well as history to support that it was a common view in the early church for the first five hundred years. The Latin influence and Rome influenced the shift to eternal damnation. I stand with many great Christian believers both pass and present. I don't believe in purgatory, I believe our God is a purifying fire, His presents is all it will take and it will be only as long as it takes to burn up the evil in each individual, and the evil is what burns, not God's creation.

If you review what Crakjak has said over an extended point of time you would see he makes some excellent points. Not letting someone make their case or being closed minded because you believe they are wrong is disrespectful.

When someone debates Crakjak they always use the same argument. What about Hitler? Doesn't the Bible have the word Hell in it? Blah Blah Blah.

Crakjak can defend his own position but nobody plays fair or comes up with an original argument after they fully hear what he believes. People guess what he believes and then commence to tear him down as a person. That is a Sad and Lazy way to debate.

[Disciple4life]

I watched the movie. I started laughing when the family started singing a rock song in the car. I could imagine all the fundamentalist (from all denominations) condemning every one in the car to Hell. :heeheehee

[Evang.Benincasa]

The message is that Jesus rides a faaaabulos rainbow horse... And the Holy Spirit is blue and shoots down beams I power to help us.

Wrong religion....

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-84-hq3PVImc/UtoH1UVmvuI/AAAAAAAAJCE/BgSSx68Z_M4/s1600/Lord+Shree+Krishna+Animation.gif

[houston]

It's a miracle. for once I find myself in agreement with Houston. it is all a bunch of hooey. :heeheeheei want a rainbow horse

[Evang.Benincasa]

If you review what Crakjak has said over an extended point of time you would see he makes some excellent points. Not letting someone make their case or being closed minded because you believe they are wrong is disrespectful.

When someone debates Crakjak they always use the same argument. What about Hitler? Doesn't the Bible have the word Hell in it? Blah Blah Blah.

Crakjak can defend his own position but nobody plays fair or comes up with an original argument after they fully hear what he believes. People guess what he believes and then commence to tear him down as a person. That is a Sad and Lazy way to debate.

CJ and I didn't meet yesterday, this has been an ongoing discussion between us on this forum for quite some time. The issue concerning Hitler is that he will be purified by God (since CJ believes that God's presence is a fire that purifies those who are in its presence. Since Hitler is currently supposedly in God's presence it would appear that he is being "fire cleansed?"

I'm just asking questions, and when the other guy dances around the questions by not making himself or herself clear you still must ask another question, but this time with your drawn conclusion. :)

[crakjak]

While you are not on the same level as these individuals, David Moses Berg, or David Koresh, both men believed that their studies led them to the original truth of the apostles. Yet, by shining the light of the word of God upon their doctrines you will find they are both wrong. Jeffrey Dahmer, and Osama Ben Laden are not currently undergoing some sort of purification so they can enter into the heavenly realm of Christ. Our Bible doesn't offer second chances after death, especially water boarding on the third rung of some sort of Baptist purgatory.



You are sure that I won't agree because you yourself know that your doctrine isn't one that can be understood by Book, chapter, and verse, but must come through some special revelation? Or else you know that what you teach is so unbelievable that you yourself don't really believe it, but you are just hoping for hope? Hoping that when you die you don't get shown door number 3, and a bon voyage accompanied with the farewell words from Christ, "I never knew you."




Hence after all these years this is where you are ending up? Where you can't prove what you believe, and therefore have reserved yourself to believe that everyone is in the same boat as you? I'm sorry, I really am.



Caustic? No, not caustic, just asking you questions which you are unable to answer. Caustic is having you admit to a purgatory where the unrighteous wicked dead go to be "purified?" Not caustic my friend, just asking the questions. :)

I've never hesitated to answer every question you have ever presented to me. As far as "where you are ending up", I am very comfortable and full of peace and joy in the great purpose of God for ALL His creation. No need to feel sorry for me, I have never been in closer relationship with Jesus, or in greater confidence of His great love for humanity. He is not slack concerning His promises nor is arm short to save to the uttermost. No one is getting a free pass, all will face their delusions as God sets all things right. Why should God be so set on punishment of mankind when He has the ability and the willingness to bring all in to agreement to Him and with each other. :happydance:happydance

[crakjak]

If you review what Crakjak has said over an extended point of time you would see he makes some excellent points. Not letting someone make their case or being closed minded because you believe they are wrong is disrespectful.

When someone debates Crakjak they always use the same argument. What about Hitler? Doesn't the Bible have the word Hell in it? Blah Blah Blah.

Crakjak can defend his own position but nobody plays fair or comes up with an original argument after they fully hear what he believes. People guess what he believes and then commence to tear him down as a person. That is a Sad and Lazy way to debate.:thumbsup

[mfblume]

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/138/f/3/Completely_Rainbow_by_prints_of_hooves.png

[Evang.Benincasa]

I've never hesitated to answer every question you have ever presented to me. As far as "where you are ending up", I am very comfortable and full of peace and joy in the great purpose of God for ALL His creation. No need to feel sorry for me, I have never been in closer relationship with Jesus, or in greater confidence of His great love for humanity. He is not slack concerning His promises nor is arm short to save to the uttermost. No one is getting a free pass, all will face their delusions as God sets all things right. Why should God be so set on punishment of mankind when He has the ability and the willingness to bring all in to agreement to Him and with each other. :happydance:happydance

But CJ in the same breath one can say "why is God so set in torturing those who need to be purged?" God isn't bent sent on hurting anyone, punishment or torture. CJ you not only misquoted 2 Peter 3:9, but you added to the verse thoughts which the verse never present:

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

If no one could perish then the writer wouldn't have mentioned it. The Apostle is repeating the thoughts of the prophet, Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

That isn't after death when they are being waterboarded in some sort of purgatory, but that is in the here and now.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment. We have one life, and we will all stand before one judgement. The Bible is silent on any teaching of purging of the wicked in order for them to enter into eternal life.

Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

Jesus didn't say wide is the gate which enters into purging, but uses the word destruction. The Greek word απώλεια is the root where we get the name Απολλύων the destroyer the waster who rises out of the bottomless pit.

In John 3:14-16 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should NOT perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should NOT perish, but have everlasting life.

Brother CJ it doesn't say purging, it says perishing which is the opposite of life.

Let's use the Universal Salavationist's pet scripture, and how they see it and apply the same interpretation to the scriptures in John I quoted.

1st Corinthians 15:22

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

So, if we have eternal life in John 3:14-16, then we have eternal perishing?

All those who reject Christ stay in 6th day of Adam which is still the labor unto death, and those who enter into Christ have entered into eternal rest.

Matthew 11:28

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Universal Salvationists usually only quote 1st Corinthians 15:22 without mentioning 1st Corinthians 15:23.

1st Corinthians 15:22-23

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

You have to qualify the "all" Christ the firstfruits, afterward they who are Christ's at His coming. Those are the "all," those who are Christ's. Jesus turns those away who totally were convinced that they were followers of Jesus Christ, that they had an intimate relationship with Him as their master and Lord. But Jesus makes the comment that He NEVER KNEW THEM. This statement Jesus makes after He tells His students about the wide and strait gate, the condition of the good and bad trees, the fruits which the different trees produced.

Matthew 7:15-23

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the FIRE (NOT INTO GOD). Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. NOT every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN (NOT GETTING IN AT ANYTIME AFTER DEATH); but he that DOETH the WILL of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Matthew 25:41

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into THE ETERNAL FIRE prepared for the devil and his angels."


Ezekiel 33:11

Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have NO pleasure in THE DEATH of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way AND LIVE: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why WILL YE DIE, O house of Israel?

Brother CJ the Bible only shows one route for the wicked and one route for the righteous, with no middle route of purging with a fire of God's presence until the evil wicked dead are cleansed enough to enter into heaven. No Bible for any of that.

[crakjak]

But CJ in the same breath one can say "why is God so set in torturing those who need to be purged?" God isn't bent sent on hurting anyone, punishment or torture. CJ you not only misquoted 2 Peter 3:9, but you added to the verse thoughts which the verse never present:

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

If no one could perish then the writer wouldn't have mentioned it. The Apostle is repeating the thoughts of the prophet, Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

That isn't after death when they are being waterboarded in some sort of purgatory, but that is in the here and now.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment. We have one life, and we will all stand before one judgement. The Bible is silent on any teaching of purging of the wicked in order for them to enter into eternal life.

Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

Jesus didn't say wide is the gate which enters into purging, but uses the word destruction. The Greek word απώλεια is the root where we get the name Απολλύων the destroyer the waster who rises out of the bottomless pit.

In John 3:14-16 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should NOT perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should NOT perish, but have everlasting life.

Brother CJ it doesn't say purging, it says perishing which is the opposite of life.

Let's use the Universal Salavationist's pet scripture, and how they see it and apply the same interpretation to the scriptures in John I quoted.

1st Corinthians 15:22

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

So, if we have eternal life in John 3:14-16, then we have eternal perishing?

All those who reject Christ stay in 6th day of Adam which is still the labor unto death, and those who enter into Christ have entered into eternal rest.

Matthew 11:28

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Universal Salvationists usually only quote 1st Corinthians 15:22 without mentioning 1st Corinthians 15:23.

1st Corinthians 15:22-23

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

You have to qualify the "all" Christ the firstfruits, afterward they who are Christ's at His coming. Those are the "all," those who are Christ's. Jesus turns those away who totally were convinced that they were followers of Jesus Christ, that they had an intimate relationship with Him as their master and Lord. But Jesus makes the comment that He NEVER KNEW THEM. This statement Jesus makes after He tells His students about the wide and strait gate, the condition of the good and bad trees, the fruits which the different trees produced.

Matthew 7:15-23

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the FIRE (NOT INTO GOD). Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. NOT every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN (NOT GETTING IN AT ANYTIME AFTER DEATH); but he that DOETH the WILL of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Matthew 25:41

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into THE ETERNAL FIRE prepared for the devil and his angels."


Ezekiel 33:11

Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have NO pleasure in THE DEATH of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way AND LIVE: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why WILL YE DIE, O house of Israel?

Brother CJ the Bible only shows one route for the wicked and one route for the righteous, with no middle route of purging with a fire of God's presence until the evil wicked dead are cleansed enough to enter into heaven. No Bible for any of that.

You complete presentation here is thru the lens of your doctrinal teaching, but of course there is and has been since the earliest of the early church a very different view.

[Evang.Benincasa]

You complete presentation here is thru the lens of your doctrinal teaching, but of course there is and has been since the earliest of the early church a very different view.

CJ that's what they all say.

A very different view since the earliest of the early church? Wow, that must be real early. The Hebrews of the Hebrew Bible would be considered the earliest, and they didn't believe everyone was saved. The teaching that the burning flames of the lake of fire are meant to purge sins so the soul will be redeemed was not taught by Jesus Christ. Mark 3:29, Luke 12:10, Blaspheming the Holy Ghost was never to be forgiven, therefore eliminating any hope for salvation. The Apostle writes Hebrews 6:4-6...

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Impossible if they fall away to renew themselves unto repentance?

The Apostle goes on further to say this in Hebrews 10:26...

For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. Someone who rejected the law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Just think how much WORSE the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Ghost who brings God's mercy to us.

Sorry CJ, but that's no fire of purification, but a fire of decimation.

Yet, I'm eager to learn, so by all means please show how these scriptures offer hope to those who reject God in this life and were Christ haters. :)

[Pressing-On]

CJ that's what they all say.

A very different view since the earliest of the early church? Wow, that must be real early. The Hebrews of the Hebrew Bible would be considered the earliest, and they didn't believe everyone was saved. The teaching that the burning flames of the lake of fire are meant to purge sins so the soul will be redeemed was not taught by Jesus Christ. Mark 3:29, Luke 12:10, Blaspheming the Holy Ghost was never to be forgiven, therefore eliminating any hope for salvation. The Apostle writes Hebrews 6:4-6...

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Impossible if they fall away to renew themselves unto repentance?

The Apostle goes on further to say this in Hebrews 10:26...

For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. Someone who rejected the law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Just think how much WORSE the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Ghost who brings God's mercy to us.

Sorry CJ, but that's no fire of purification, but a fire of decimation.

Yet, I'm eager to learn, so by all means please show how these scriptures offer hope to those who reject God in this life and were Christ haters. :)
Truth! :thumbsup:thumbsup

[crakjak]

CJ that's what they all say.

A very different view since the earliest of the early church? Wow, that must be real early. The Hebrews of the Hebrew Bible would be considered the earliest, and they didn't believe everyone was saved. The teaching that the burning flames of the lake of fire are meant to purge sins so the soul will be redeemed was not taught by Jesus Christ. Mark 3:29, Luke 12:10, Blaspheming the Holy Ghost was never to be forgiven, therefore eliminating any hope for salvation. The Apostle writes Hebrews 6:4-6...

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Impossible if they fall away to renew themselves unto repentance?

The Apostle goes on further to say this in Hebrews 10:26...

For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. Someone who rejected the law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Just think how much WORSE the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Ghost who brings God's mercy to us.

Sorry CJ, but that's no fire of purification, but a fire of decimation.

Yet, I'm eager to learn, so by all means please show how these scriptures offer hope to those who reject God in this life and were Christ haters. :)

If I show historical evidence of the majority opinion until the 5th century will you really consider it??

[houston]

BACK TO THE TOPIC

I watched a few minutes of the movie yesterday afternoon. I'll finish it tonight.

Has anyone pointed out that the kid did NOT die?
He had an outer body experience while under anesthesia.

[Evang.Benincasa]

If I show historical evidence of the majority opinion until the 5th century will you really consider it??

CJ I always consider information that doesn't contradict the totality of scripture. Yet, I want you to promise not to be upset if what you offer can be easily refuted with what I already presented in this thread. I already posted how ancient paganism, Hinduism, and Buddhism also offer doctrines of after death purging, purging that also rehabilitates demons. But please post the history of the individuals who believed Universal Salvation. Also answer the issues I offered in my two last posts. :)

[Evang.Benincasa]

BACK TO THE TOPIC

I watched a few minutes of the movie yesterday afternoon. I'll finish it tonight.

Has anyone pointed out that the kid did NOT die?
He had an outer body experience while under anesthesia.

Hey how's your diet of two breakfast tacos, and chicken wings working out for you?

[houston]

BACK TO THE TOPIC

please

[ixoye_val69]

BACK TO THE TOPIC

I watched a few minutes of the movie yesterday afternoon. I'll finish it tonight.

Has anyone pointed out that the kid did NOT die?
He had an outer body experience while under anesthesia.

I was going to ask about that also. I have never seen the movie and was trying to find out whether he actually died or not. I always thought you had to die to have a near death experience. I will watch it if and when it ever comes to Netflix.

[crakjak]

CJ I always consider information that doesn't contradict the totality of scripture. Yet, I want you to promise not to be upset if what you offer can be easily refuted with what I already presented in this thread. I already posted how ancient paganism, Hinduism, and Buddhism also offer doctrines of after death purging, purging that also rehabilitates demons. But please post the history of the individuals who believed Universal Salvation. Also answer the issues I offered in my two last posts. :)

I will review my previous posts, if this is territory the we have already covered, I have no desire to pursue it again.

[houston]

BACK TO THE MOVIE


The parents are going over the medical bills. The mom exclaims, "I'm going to have to get a job!"

The book solved that problem! HAHAHA

[Abiding Now]

Movie producer rule #1. People are so gullible.

[houston]

According to the kid, Jesus looks like this middle eastern Rod Stuart with a beard

[Evang.Benincasa]

According to the kid, Jesus looks like this middle eastern Rod Stuart with a beard

A brother in our church said it looked like Kenny Loggins.

[houston]

A brother in our church said it looked like Kenny Loggins.no idea who that is

[Evang.Benincasa]

no idea who that is

He someone who looks like a Middle Eastern Rod Stewart with a beard.