View Full Version : Serious Questions and Doubts About God's Ways
Jermyn Davidson
04-07-2014, 09:22 AM
It's moments like this that I wonder the wisdom of posting under my real name and asking questions like these but I guess I won't be in any worse of a place by doing this.
1) Has anyone thought they really had a word from God for a person you cared for a lot, a word from God and you were sure it was from God, only to find out that you completely missed the mark and have caused considerable pain and confusion for numerous people?
2) Why on God's green planet would He let something like that happen-- knowing the hearts of His people, knowing the sincerity, knowing the mistake, knowing the ensuing confusion and pain that His servant would cause to so many people?
3) What's the use of living for God, extending yourself, putting yourself out, going with your brother not just 1 mile, but 10 miles, doing what you do for His Glory-- only to find yourself in need with NO ONE willing to come through for you?
4) Statement, not a question-- I don't want to give anything to anyone any more. I don't want to help anyone any more. And as for having a word for anyone-- I don't possibly know how I can trust God or myself to think that I am hearing from God anymore!!!
I'm in tears.
I'm fighting thoughts of hating God-- I don't hate Him, He knows I don't, but man there is a war in my head, and maybe even in my heart now-- I don't even know.
I just wish I I could crawl into a sea shell and disappear!
I wish I could reverse time and I would just stopped myself from even speaking that day.
The time and MONEY I spent helping that so-called brother-- I would have been better off making sure my own bills were paid ahead by three months or so!
Why help anyone when at the end of the day, I won't be able to help myself?
Where is the net to catch me now that I'm going down???
Does anyone know what in the world I'm talking about!!!!!
If your efforts involved time and money as well that kind of gives you the privilege of saying something. So don't be too hard on yourself.
Aquila
04-07-2014, 10:08 AM
Jermyn Davidson, please meditate upon these verses:
Job 23:14 For he performeth [the thing that is] appointed for me: and many such [things are] with him.
Psalms 56:8 Thou tellest my wanderings: put thou my tears into thy bottle: [are they] not in thy book?
Isaiah 43:7 [Even] every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.
Jeremiah 1:4-5 4 ¶ Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Jermyn Davidson
04-07-2014, 10:08 AM
If your efforts involved time and money as well that kind of gives you the privilege of saying something. So don't be too hard on yourself.
I don't understand what you are saying.
Jermyn Davidson
04-07-2014, 10:10 AM
Jermyn Davidson, please meditate upon these verses:
Job 23:14 For he performeth [the thing that is] appointed for me: and many such [things are] with him.
Psalms 56:8 Thou tellest my wanderings: put thou my tears into thy bottle: [are they] not in thy book?
Isaiah 43:7 [Even] every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.
Jeremiah 1:4-5 4 ¶ Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Thanks.
I will read over these slowly later on at home.
Timmy
04-07-2014, 10:28 AM
It's moments like this that I wonder the wisdom of posting under my real name and asking questions like these but I guess I won't be in any worse of a place by doing this.
1) Has anyone thought they really had a word from God for a person you cared for a lot, a word from God and you were sure it was from God, only to find out that you completely missed the mark and have caused considerable pain and confusion for numerous people?
No. Thank God! :)
2) Why on God's green planet would He let something like that happen-- knowing the hearts of His people, knowing the sincerity, knowing the mistake, knowing the ensuing confusion and pain that His servant would cause to so many people?
Trick question. God would not do that.
3) What's the use of living for God, extending yourself, putting yourself out, going with your brother not just 1 mile, but 10 miles, doing what you do for His Glory-- only to find yourself in need with NO ONE willing to come through for you?
People who think of themselves as "God's people" are not. At least some times. People who do not identify themselves as "God's people" are sometimes much better people than those who do.
4) Statement, not a question-- I don't want to give anything to anyone any more. I don't want to help anyone any more. And as for having a word for anyone-- I don't possibly know how I can trust God or myself to think that I am hearing from God anymore!!!
I'm in tears.
I'm fighting thoughts of hating God-- I don't hate Him, He knows I don't, but man there is a war in my head, and maybe even in my heart now-- I don't even know.
I just wish I I could crawl into a sea shell and disappear!
I wish I could reverse time and I would just stopped myself from even speaking that day.
The time and MONEY I spent helping that so-called brother-- I would have been better off making sure my own bills were paid ahead by three months or so!
Why help anyone when at the end of the day, I won't be able to help myself?
Where is the net to catch me now that I'm going down???
Does anyone know what in the world I'm talking about!!!!!
Yes. I do.
IMO, God didn't tell you to do anything. You got an idea to help someone, and there is nothing wrong with that. But you have no obligation to overextend on anyone's behalf. But now, it's water under the bridge. Live and learn. Keep helping people -- that's what make us human -- but there are many ways to do that without harming yourself.
And no, I don't believe God told you to do or say anything. I don't think God ever does that. Some say you need to hear God speak to you, and to "learn his voice". I say that cannot be done. Nobody can know God's voice. If it "agrees with the Word" that doesn't mean it's from God. (By the way, ANYTHING can be made to "agree with the Word" using the very same methods that people use to explain "apparent" contradictions in the Bible. ANYTHING.)
Timmy
04-07-2014, 10:36 AM
Trick question. God would not do that.
I should elaborate. ;)
God, IMO, doesn't explicitly allow things like that to happen. And he doesn't stop them from happening.
If someone imagines that they have a message from God, whether honestly or with nefarious intent, God will not stop them from delivering that message. He never seems to stop anyone from raping a toddler, if they want to do that, so why would he ever stop anyone from doing anything?
Aquila
04-07-2014, 10:37 AM
It's moments like this that I wonder the wisdom of posting under my real name and asking questions like these but I guess I won't be in any worse of a place by doing this.
1) Has anyone thought they really had a word from God for a person you cared for a lot, a word from God and you were sure it was from God, only to find out that you completely missed the mark and have caused considerable pain and confusion for numerous people?
I've received a Word from God and misinterpreted it before. The Spirit is spirit. Sometimes our humanity can get in the way of properly understanding or properly choosing the right words. I try not to go too far into territory where I'd cause considerable damage. Even if I believe I've heard from God clearly, I'll encourage them to follow their heart... or what they believe the Spirit is telling them. However, I'll pray for them in accordance to what I believe God told me. Only if they pry will I explain what I feel God is telling me, if it's a delicate situation. And I admit that I might be mistaken. I then ask that they pray with me that GOD will confirm the Word for them. If He doesn't... that's on Him. And ultimately... their choices are entirely on them.
2) Why on God's green planet would He let something like that happen-- knowing the hearts of His people, knowing the sincerity, knowing the mistake, knowing the ensuing confusion and pain that His servant would cause to so many people?
God's ultimate purpose is to conform His elect into the image of Christ Jesus. That means that we have a LOT of learning to do. Our greatest mistakes often teach us our greatest lessons. For example, one might learn to tread more lightly when they believe they've heard from God, keeping in mind that they are but flesh and can misinterpret what God is saying. The one receiving the word might learn not to put such stock in human men of God who can misinterpret what God is saying. Ultimately, God has appointed all things to bring about His sovereign will in our lives. The toughest lessons hurt the most... but we have far more to gain from them than we can imagine at the time they happen. Pain isn't always "bad". Sorrow, discouragement, giving up, etc. are all things that must be experienced at one point... and overcome. Without these experiences we'll never experience what it means to be conformed into the image of Jesus.
3) What's the use of living for God, extending yourself, putting yourself out, going with your brother not just 1 mile, but 10 miles, doing what you do for His Glory-- only to find yourself in need with NO ONE willing to come through for you?
Love. We do these things because we love. And, it's the right thing to do. Even when no one comes along to help us. We trust in God, that God has a sovereign plan in accordance to His grace and mercy. We trust that we lose nothing, because we truly never had anything. All things on this earth are temporary and fleeting. Men have rejoiced in the homeless shelter that God was purifying them. These normally get back on their feet and the latter house is greater than the former house. Those who do not learn the secret to life being a world a lessons to prepare us for eternity go in circles clinging to what they wanted vs. accepting God's plan for them. We do what we do because it is right. We do it because we love others as ourselves. We do not do it thinking that someone will be there for us... because we know our trust is in God alone. Even if we crash and burn... there is a reason. God is often toughest on His favorite/best players. Why do we help others just to find no one there for us... because it gives God glory... that's why.
4) Statement, not a question-- I don't want to give anything to anyone any more. I don't want to help anyone any more. And as for having a word for anyone-- I don't possibly know how I can trust God or myself to think that I am hearing from God anymore!!!
Surrender to God's predestined plan for you. You can fight it and fight it... but He will win. Allow yourself to be broken. For once you've allowed yourself to be broken and surrendered to God's sovereign plan... then you can allow God to begin rebuilding you. And you'll come forth as gold tried in the fire.
I'm in tears.
Psalms 56:8 Thou tellest my wanderings: put thou my tears into thy bottle: [are they] not in thy book?
Every tear is held precious before God. And... it was previously recorded. Heaven already braced itself for your sorrow... and is there to reassure you that God has a plan in this. A purpose. A sovereign unalterable purpose. Get the emotion out. Experience the weeping. Embrace it. And after you've emptied yourself of this... you'll discover that joy comes in the morning. Your darkest hour was designed by God. Not to destroy you. But to conform you into someone glorious. Someone conformed into the very image of Jesus Himself. The Father designed and predestined our Lord's crucifixion. He has done the same for us. And just as Jesus was appointed to rise again the third day... we too are appointed a day in which we will arise once more. We're never down for the count. Not even while laying in the cold grip of death itself. We will rise. Because He is risen.
I'm fighting thoughts of hating God-- I don't hate Him, He knows I don't, but man there is a war in my head, and maybe even in my heart now-- I don't even know.
Matthew 27:46
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
I'm crying too now, my brother. Welcome to the cross. You're not alone in feeling this way. It hurts. This transformation HURTS! But we who love you are cheering for you like a crowd in a stadium. We see you being crucified... and we are with you... KNOWING that you'll rise again!
I just wish I I could crawl into a sea shell and disappear!
I wish I could reverse time and I would just stopped myself from even speaking that day.
It was predestined. There is a purpose for it. It is serving to crucify you... to cause you to stop and reflect... to cause you to have to surrender to He who is greater than all. And it is serving a purpose in the lives of others too. It may not be seen until eternity what God hath wrought through you speaking what you'd spoken. Did you miss the mark? Maybe. Did God? Nope. God is always on target in His divine providence. This is part of a plan... even if it is to shake loose all that can be shaken. Hold tight. You know in whom you have believed. You KNOW who holds tomorrow. Who authored it's contents before time began. Have peace in this, elect child of God.
The time and MONEY I spent helping that so-called brother-- I would have been better off making sure my own bills were paid ahead by three months or so!
Really? Maybe this needs to be a memory for the "so-called brother" to remember on the day when God truly calls Him to His knees. What if your "crucifixion"... is part of God's plan for someone's eternal salvation? What if your "crucifixion" will one day turn a wayward brother around when it dawns on him what has happened and how God provided for Him... through you??? Don't doubt the sovereign plans of God. It is all for His glory... and your transformation.
Also... consider this. Is it possible that you have taken a brother or sister's grace and sacrifice for granted at some point? Sometimes we experience these things only to discover... we've done the same to others. I'm not saying that you have. I'm just saying... search your heart and mind. Maybe you'll experience release and the blessings of Heaven upon discovering how this relates to your past, if applicable. It may even be our taken Christ's cross and God's grace for granted. He gave all. Not to be a martyr, or an inspiration... but a substitute. Have we really allowed that to sink in... or do we take it for granted? Just thinking freely here brother. Regardless of the purpose of all of this... God is to be glorified in your transformation.
Why help anyone when at the end of the day, I won't be able to help myself?
Because it is to be like Christ. This is about Christ being formed in you. It's not about you. My pain and trials are not even about me. It's about Jesus being formed in us. We do what we do because it is right. It is loving. It is... Jesus.
Where is the net to catch me now that I'm going down???
There is no net. Only the everlasting arms of an Almighty God who called you from all eternity to be conformed into the image of Jesus.
Does anyone know what in the world I'm talking about!!!!!
I can only assume that I do. However, I can be mistaken. Yet GOD knows exactly what you're talking about. This is what it feels like to suffer... and if we suffer with Him... we'll also reign with Him.
Jeremiah 29:11 (TLB)
For I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord. They are plans for good and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope.
Jermyn Davidson
04-07-2014, 11:26 AM
Aquilla,
Thank you very, very much.
Jermyn Davidson
04-07-2014, 11:28 AM
I should elaborate. ;)
God, IMO, doesn't explicitly allow things like that to happen. And he doesn't stop them from happening.
If someone imagines that they have a message from God, whether honestly or with nefarious intent, God will not stop them from delivering that message. He never seems to stop anyone from raping a toddler, if they want to do that, so why would he ever stop anyone from doing anything?
I don't know, but I do know that I want to trust Him and KNOW HIM more-- it's just that sometimes I get so frustrated!
justlookin
04-07-2014, 12:23 PM
It's moments like this that I wonder the wisdom of posting under my real name and asking questions like these but I guess I won't be in any worse of a place by doing this.
1) Has anyone thought they really had a word from God for a person you cared for a lot, a word from God and you were sure it was from God, only to find out that you completely missed the mark and have caused considerable pain and confusion for numerous people?
2) Why on God's green planet would He let something like that happen-- knowing the hearts of His people, knowing the sincerity, knowing the mistake, knowing the ensuing confusion and pain that His servant would cause to so many people?
3) What's the use of living for God, extending yourself, putting yourself out, going with your brother not just 1 mile, but 10 miles, doing what you do for His Glory-- only to find yourself in need with NO ONE willing to come through for you?
4) Statement, not a question-- I don't want to give anything to anyone any more. I don't want to help anyone any more. And as for having a word for anyone-- I don't possibly know how I can trust God or myself to think that I am hearing from God anymore!!!
I'm in tears.
I'm fighting thoughts of hating God-- I don't hate Him, He knows I don't, but man there is a war in my head, and maybe even in my heart now-- I don't even know.
I just wish I I could crawl into a sea shell and disappear!
I wish I could reverse time and I would just stopped myself from even speaking that day.
The time and MONEY I spent helping that so-called brother-- I would have been better off making sure my own bills were paid ahead by three months or so!
Why help anyone when at the end of the day, I won't be able to help myself?
Where is the net to catch me now that I'm going down???
Does anyone know what in the world I'm talking about!!!!!
I surely know what you're talking about. The thing is, don't let this determine a future away from intimacy with God. You'll get naysayers adding to your misery, telling you that you can't trust God, you can only trust yourself, you've placed your confidence in something that you cant' have confidence in. Nothing could be further from the truth, you CAN trust God. Maybe you missed God in this particular circumstance, but get up, tell God how disappointed you are, it's even ok to get angry with Him, but realize it's not Him that did this to you. it was your enemy, the father of lies, the one who would rather you live in darkness than light. God cares that you're disappointed, He cares that you're struggling and well help you out of this pit you're in if you just come to Him openly and honestly, tell Him of your struggles and let Him bring you into the light again.
I've suffered deaths of loved ones, loss, disappointment, lack, sickness, ect., as has all people, including Christians, and I never enjoyed any of it. I struggled through all of it, questioned God, questioned the existence of God, the love of God, the presence of God during those times and found that God actually was present and caring during those dark nights of the soul that I thought Him absent. After living for God for many many years, I've found Him faithful in every area of my life, loving and caring in every circumstance.
My advice is to simply be honest with God. He's a big boy, He can handle it, and He will bring you through this if you let Him. Some come to these places in life and turn away and in their disappointment and anger attempt to convince others that God doesn't exist or if He exists you can't know Him and that He doesn't intervene in your life. Don't listen to them, they're speaking from a position of darkness in the evil one. They themselves need to be delivered.
And again, I know it's a very very hard place to be. I pray for you, brother. This will get better and please don't stop trying to hear God and speaking when you believe it's Him speaking to you.
n david
04-07-2014, 04:52 PM
I surely know what you're talking about. The thing is, don't let this determine a future away from intimacy with God. You'll get naysayers adding to your misery, telling you that you can't trust God, you can only trust yourself, you've placed your confidence in something that you cant' have confidence in. Nothing could be further from the truth, you CAN trust God. Maybe you missed God in this particular circumstance, but get up, tell God how disappointed you are, it's even ok to get angry with Him, but realize it's not Him that did this to you. it was your enemy, the father of lies, the one who would rather you live in darkness than light. God cares that you're disappointed, He cares that you're struggling and well help you out of this pit you're in if you just come to Him openly and honestly, tell Him of your struggles and let Him bring you into the light again.
I've suffered deaths of loved ones, loss, disappointment, lack, sickness, ect., as has all people, including Christians, and I never enjoyed any of it. I struggled through all of it, questioned God, questioned the existence of God, the love of God, the presence of God during those times and found that God actually was present and caring during those dark nights of the soul that I thought Him absent. After living for God for many many years, I've found Him faithful in every area of my life, loving and caring in every circumstance.
My advice is to simply be honest with God. He's a big boy, He can handle it, and He will bring you through this if you let Him. Some come to these places in life and turn away and in their disappointment and anger attempt to convince others that God doesn't exist or if He exists you can't know Him and that He doesn't intervene in your life. Don't listen to them, they're speaking from a position of darkness in the evil one. They themselves need to be delivered.
And again, I know it's a very very hard place to be. I pray for you, brother. This will get better and please don't stop trying to hear God and speaking when you believe it's Him speaking to you.
:thumbsup
Brother I am sorry for what you are going through and though I do not know (nor need to know) all the details of your situation I do know how it feels to put yourself out and no one seem to notice. I do know how it feels to pray and pray for help and yet every thing seems to stay the same. I understand the feeling of confusion that results from being forced to question weather or not you actually heard from God and the fear of not knowing how to proceed. I have not walked your path but I have walked mine and there have been times when I was so low that I would beg God to just let me die because nothing made sense and it truly felt like them rug had been pulled out from underneath me and I was so low that I never saw any hope of getting back up. I can vividly remember multiple times asking God why He allowed certain things to happen. Through that time I came to realize that God is big enough to handle my questions and anger as well as my situation. Looking back I can see how God was there through it all giving me strength accepting my questions quelling my anger and pain never forsakeing me and always loving me. A verse that was a true blessing to me then and still now is:
..Isa 53:4.. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Wish I had some answers as to why but I never got all of those for my situation either but it did work out in a way that was better than what I could have ever dreamed. Trust God He has never made a mistake nor has He ever forsaken anyone and He is not about to start with you.
As to weather you heard from God or not sometimes we can't go by immediate results but look at the big picture or wait for it to come to pass in God's time. One of my previous past told of a church service he had been in where a man stood up said and said loudly macaroni and cheese then sat back down because he felt like God wanted him to say that. After then service an older woman approached him and told him that she had been praying for her backsliden son that very morning and said she had told God that if He was even listening to please show her somehow and there in church when the man had stood and said macaroni and cheese God answered her prayer because that was her sons favorite food. To others it seemed silly but to her it was an answer to prayer.
Trust God he can handle your questions and even your hurts and anger just hold on to him. I will be praying for you.
1) Has anyone thought they really had a word from God for a person you cared for a lot, a word from God and you were sure it was from God, only to find out that you completely missed the mark and have caused considerable pain and confusion for numerous people? Yes.
2) Why on God's green planet would He let something like that happen-- knowing the hearts of His people, knowing the sincerity, knowing the mistake, knowing the ensuing confusion and pain that His servant would cause to so many people? I don't know. I've wondered that myself.
3) What's the use of living for God, extending yourself, putting yourself out, going with your brother not just 1 mile, but 10 miles, doing what you do for His Glory-- only to find yourself in need with NO ONE willing to come through for you? Well, that's one reason why I left the UPC in the first place. All the promises were empty. I gave and they took.
4) Statement, not a question-- I don't want to give anything to anyone any more. I don't want to help anyone any more. And as for having a word for anyone-- I don't possibly know how I can trust God or myself to think that I am hearing from God anymore!!!
Jermyn, I understand. And lots of other people do too. And some do, but they won't admit it. There comes a time when I think you just have to do what's best for yourself and believe that God wants that for you. Is God good? Does He want you to suffer? No! So, many things you have been told must have just been people's understandings about God and not really what He is truly about. For me, I decided it was time for me to seek after what I believed about God rather than what people told me about Him. So, I left and I don't regret it.
Don't despair. You did what you thought was right. Don't beat your self up. The real God is out there. Maybe He's just not what we have been told. Anyway, I hope this helps. It's hard to see you go through this.
jediwill83
04-09-2014, 09:09 AM
Not really in the condition to be giving spiritual encouragement....but I can do this *BIIIIIIG HUG* hang in there bro.
KeptByTheWord
04-09-2014, 06:25 PM
The issues you are facing are simply the enemy's tactics to deter you from looking to Jesus as the supplier and burden sharer of whatever situation you have found yourself in.
The greatest hurt we will experience in life will be in the house of friends, in the place where you thought you were safe, and where there are those you trust. Read Psalms, and the words of David as Athithophel, one of his best friends, and his own son turned against him, and sought his life. Even Jesus, in his greatest, and darkest hour of need experienced the sorrow of seeing even his closest friends turn against him, and leave him.
So, you are not alone. This is not something new under the sun. Simply know this. The Lord Jesus can take this trial that you are going through, and use it to birth something new, and greater in your life, than you can even see right now. I've seen it many times in my own life, to know that when the storms of life come, and disappointments, sadness, failures, mistakes of our own making.... that even in the midst of these things, the Lord is able to rebuild, and remake something new out of the ashes of the old, into something better, far better than what you can see now.
So, just read the Word. Read the stories of those who were betrayed, and hurt by those who they thought were friends.
And look to Jesus, trusting Him to carry you through this storm as well, until the day comes when you can look back, and see how the very thing that hurt you so deeply, was actually working in your favor.
I will be praying for you.
Praxeas
04-09-2014, 08:42 PM
Yes.
I don't know. I've wondered that myself.
Well, that's one reason why I left the UPC in the first place. All the promises were empty. I gave and they took.
Jermyn, I understand. And lots of other people do too. And some do, but they won't admit it. There comes a time when I think you just have to do what's best for yourself and believe that God wants that for you. Is God good? Does He want you to suffer? No! So, many things you have been told must have just been people's understandings about God and not really what He is truly about. For me, I decided it was time for me to seek after what I believed about God rather than what people told me about Him. So, I left and I don't regret it.
Don't despair. You did what you thought was right. Don't beat your self up. The real God is out there. Maybe He's just not what we have been told. Anyway, I hope this helps. It's hard to see you go through this.
How did this become about the UPC? It's amazing how any thread can be turned into UPC bashing
houston
04-10-2014, 02:35 PM
I have found that the voice of God usually isn 't...
How did this become about the UPC? It's amazing how any thread can be turned into UPC bashing
Um. I was just giving my perspective. Amazing how any statement about leaving can be turned into a reason to bring up UPC bashing. ;)
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