Did You Scorn Leaving the UPC?

[Praxeas]

After you left, did you often go to forums you knew where UPCers would be and trash the UPC non-stop then after someone pointed out you sounded bitter claim "Oh Im over it and have moved on. I have no stones to throw"?

:heeheehee

[n david]

Prax - it's "relating their experience," not bashing.

:lol

[Praxeas]

Oh right...forgot :icecream

[endtimer]

Ha ha this thread brings the funny.

[jediwill83]

No...sure didnt...kept to myself...didnt try to convince anyone or defend my actions because ultimately it was my decision and not something that could be related and explained in one simple discussion or conversation.Tried having some honest discussions about it and ended up experiencing all kinds of defensiveness to the nth degree... it was the equivalent of covering your ears going "LALALALALA CANT HEAAAAAR YOOOU" So instead of waste my time I just kept my mouth shut...they went their way n I went mine.

[ILG]

Prax,

I hope you asked this question in sincerity and not just to laugh and scorn the people who may reply.

When I left, I was hurting so deeply, I cannot even describe it. I came to forums because I needed to talk, needed to make sense of what happened to me.

I would say "ah" and people would jump me like nobodies business and scream and yell about what a bitter, horrible backslid person I was. I had to leave for my own emotional safety. I came back later, after I had healed some and did not talk about anything but "safe" subjects for a long time.

It is very telling to me that every time anyone brings up a "not safe" subject, meaning anything negative about the UPC, like it's ugly hang nail on it's big ugliest toe that is the most obvious fault of the UPC, some people just can't handle the slightest bit of criticism at all. I think that is very sad. For these people, there is no rationality to constructive criticism for they believe that ANY criticism is hateful and spiteful.

I can't help that though. And watch the fur fly from all the people I just described after I post this.

[CC1]

Prax, not sure I understand the title of this thread. Do you mean did a person scorn the UPC when they left? Asking "did you scorn when you left the UPC" seems odd phrasing.

[Dante]

I rued the day of ever stepping foot into a UPC congregation. Those are years I'll never get back; years I could have used doing something for God instead of sitting on a pew, because of a suspicious pastor who thought I was assigned by a trinitarian church to subvert and overthrow his congregation with trinitarianism.

[CC1]

I rued the day of ever stepping foot into a UPC congregation. Those are years I'll never get back; years I could have used doing something for God instead of sitting on a pew, because of a suspicious pastor who thought I was assigned by a trinitarian church to subvert and overthrow his congregation with trinitarianism.

That is what happens when your nickname is "Dante's Inferno"! On a more serious note what do you mean by "instead of sitting on a pew because of a suspicious pastor who tought I was assigned by a trinitarian church to subvert and overthrow his congregation with trinitarianistm"

Did you come from that trinitarian church when you started going to the UPC one? Did you express differences in doctrine that were a cause for him believing that? There has to be much more to this story!

There had to be something that made this pastor think what you said he thought even if just a small thing that his imagination blew up. Give us details!

[Praxeas]

Prax,

I hope you asked this question in sincerity and not just to laugh and scorn the people who may reply.

.
I asked because people have left this forum over daily seeing negative posts about the UPC. It's gotten so old and tired even I come here less and less.

It's supposed to be Apostolic Friends Forum but it's become "X-UPCers talk about the UPC"

You are actually the one being defensive over my pointing out that several of the posters here constantly do that.

Most of your accusations don't pertain to me

[Praxeas]

It is very telling to me that every time anyone brings up a "not safe" subject, meaning anything negative about the UPC, like it's ugly hang nail on it's big ugliest toe that is the most obvious fault of the UPC, some people just can't handle the slightest bit of criticism at all. I think that is very sad. For these people, there is no rationality to constructive criticism for they believe that ANY criticism is hateful and spiteful.

.
no that's not the problem and you know it. It's not "any time"..it's the fact that it happens ALL the time over and over and over and over. You don't see it because you are not on the receiving end.

How would you feel if your friend or spouse constantly ragged on you over and over and over..criticized you?

It gets OLD real fast

Second, I have NO problem with "unsafe subjects", as you can see I have discussed every topic pertaining to beliefs and practices. I have dealt with standards, tongues, godhead, attitudes, magic hair etc etc

I can DO that without saying "The UPC...."

Do You understand? Even those who are not in the UPC have gotten tired of it.

Why can't we talk about the topics by finding common ground instead of alienating UPCers?

Why can't we talk about topics without having to always make it specifically about the UPCers?

[Praxeas]

Prax, not sure I understand the title of this thread. Do you mean did a person scorn the UPC when they left? Asking "did you scorn when you left the UPC" seems odd phrasing.
That was intentional

[Dichotomy Girl]

no that's not the problem and you know it. It's not "any time"..it's the fact that it happens ALL the time over and over and over and over. You don't see it because you are not on the receiving end.

How would you feel if your friend or spouse constantly ragged on you over and over and over..criticized you?

It gets OLD real fast

Second, I have NO problem with "unsafe subjects", as you can see I have discussed every topic pertaining to beliefs and practices. I have dealt with standards, tongues, godhead, attitudes, magic hair etc etc

I can DO that without saying "The UPC...."

Do You understand? Even those who are not in the UPC have gotten tired of it.

Why can't we talk about the topics by finding common ground instead of alienating UPCers?

Why can't we talk about topics without having to always make it specifically about the UPCers?

This might surprise you, but I think I can relate. My husband as most know, is an Atheist. And he is a great guy, and we are very much in love. But every once in awhile, he makes one snarky comment too many. And I'm all like "Errrggg...I get it. Christianity is stupid, and Jesus doesn't exist. Point made. Please drop it."

And he always looks so surprised and confused and says "I'm sorry, It was just a joke"

ILG - I, of course, totally understand your perspective too, because I've traveled the same paths.

It's like how when you're a kid, YOU can pick on your little brother, but you'll beat up anyone else who tries?

To people like ILG and I, because of our past, still feel that partial connection to the UPC that will never be erased, as it once was a major part of our lives.

But I think to others, those who are still a part, we've left and rejected the family, and therefore have lost the right to safely criticize.

[ILG]

This might surprise you, but I think I can relate. My husband as most know, is an Atheist. And he is a great guy, and we are very much in love. But every once in awhile, he makes one snarky comment too many. And I'm all like "Errrggg...I get it. Christianity is stupid, and Jesus doesn't exist. Point made. Please drop it."

And he always looks so surprised and confused and says "I'm sorry, It was just a joke"

ILG - I, of course, totally understand your perspective too, because I've traveled the same paths.

It's like how when you're a kid, YOU can pick on your little brother, but you'll beat up anyone else who tries?

To people like ILG and I, because of our past, still feel that partial connection to the UPC that will never be erased, as it once was a major part of our lives.

But I think to others, those who are still a part, we've left and rejected the family, and therefore have lost the right to safely criticize.

I understand what you are saying, Mich, but as far as I am concerned I will always have the right to chime in about this organization. I have earned that right. ;) However, I rarely do because of all the drama that surrounds it. It gets wearisome.

[endtimer]

I understand what you are saying, Mich, but as far as I am concerned I will always have the right to chime in about this organization. I have earned that right. ;) However, I rarely do because of all the drama that surrounds it. It gets wearisome.
Just curious, how long ago did you last attend an UPC endorsed service?

[Dichotomy Girl]

I understand what you are saying, Mich, but as far as I am concerned I will always have the right to chime in about this organization. I have earned that right. ;) However, I rarely do because of all the drama that surrounds it. It gets wearisome.

I understand. :nod

Just curious, how long ago did you last attend an UPC endorsed service?

For me, it was 2007. I did things big back then, so I made a big announcement, and garnered a 50+ page thread.
( http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=4851 )

[ILG]

Just curious, how long ago did you last attend an UPC endorsed service?

What difference does it make?

[endtimer]

What difference does it make? As stated, I was curious. If you don't want to answer, that's fine.

[n david]

As stated, I was curios. If you don't want to answer, that's fine.
I tried asking how many UPC churches ILG has been in and was given the run around as well.

[ILG]

I have learned that it is never okay to criticize the UPC (in my experience).

It was not okay when I was newly in the church because I was new and didn't "understand".

It was not okay when my husband was the assistant pastor and I was worship leader because we were just assisting.

It was not okay when we were in Home Missions because we were new pastors.

It was not okay when we started pastoring an established work because "they" said so.

It was not okay when we found embezzling going on because we were supposed to let the district superintendent handle it.

It was not okay when the district superintendent did not handle it but pushed it up under the rug.

It was not okay when we were leaving.

It was not okay after we left because we were "bitter" and "backslid".

It is not okay now because we no longer attend.

See, it just isn't okay.

Which means, according to the UPC, it is not and never was okay for me to have an opinion, a voice, a question, a comment or ANYTHING negative.

But it was okay when we assisted for free for 9 years. It was okay when we built a church and financed it for 5 years. It was okay when we pastored practically for free for another 5 years.

See, giving and praising and all that is okay.

But don't you ever, ever criticize, even if people are embezzling and the district superintendent is covering it up. Because that would be WRONG!

And there you have it. :)

[endtimer]

I tried asking how many UPC churches ILG has been in and was given the run around as well.
This probably deserves a whole other thread but, I find this whole subject interesting. In my youth, I went to a church where the pastor held a license and the church was registered as a UPC church. At this church the UPC, the politics and talking points were endorsed heavily. The people ate it up and called themselves UPC. The church I attend now and for the last 22 years would be considered independent. My pastor and I are licensed with the UPC. In the last 22 years I haven't heard a mention of the UPC behind the pulpit but we do hear a lot about The Kingdom. In fact, almost all of our members would have no clue what you are talking about if you said the word UPC. I associate with plenty of licensed ministers and rarely hear anything of the UPC. I think I hear more about the UPC here than any where else I go, except a maybe certain district function. I think in an environment when an earthly kingdom is promoted over Gods kingdom people are likely to be hurt. I would blame this on the ministry that is doing this and not the organization they hold a license with.

[n david]

This probably deserves a whole other thread but, I find this whole subject interesting. In my youth, I went to a church where the pastor held a license and the church was registered as a UPC church. At this church the UPC, the politics and talking points were endorsed heavily. The people ate it up and called themselves UPC. The church I attend now and for the last 22 years would be considered independent. My pastor and I are licensed with the UPC. In the last 22 years I haven't heard a mention of the UPC behind the pulpit but we do hear a lot about The Kingdom. In fact, almost all of our members would have no clue what you are talking about if you said the word UPC. I associate with plenty of licensed ministers and rarely hear anything of the UPC. I think I hear more about the UPC here than any where else I go, except a maybe certain district function. I think in an environment when an earthly kingdom is promoted over Gods kingdom people are likely to be hurt. I would blame this on the ministry that is doing this and not the organization they hold a license with.
I agree.

[Monterrey]

You betcha I scorned!!!

What fun is it to leave something like that when you can't talk bad about it, run it into the ground, berate anyone who is still in it...

What kind of a guy you think I am anyway? Some left leaning hypocrite? Man oh man I scorned!!!

Whoo hee,

LOL

[Praxeas]

I understand what you are saying, Mich, but as far as I am concerned I will always have the right to chime in about this organization. I have earned that right. ;) However, I rarely do because of all the drama that surrounds it. It gets wearisome.
Why here? Of all places knowing there are people here that still go to the UPC?

I don't think you REALLY understand what Mich is saying. It's US who are tired of it who weary. IT'S OLD. It goes on over and over and over and over.

[Praxeas]

I have learned that it is never okay to criticize the UPC (in my experience).

It was not okay when I was newly in the church because I was new and didn't "understand".

It was not okay when my husband was the assistant pastor and I was worship leader because we were just assisting.

It was not okay when we were in Home Missions because we were new pastors.

It was not okay when we started pastoring an established work because "they" said so.

It was not okay when we found embezzling going on because we were supposed to let the district superintendent handle it.

It was not okay when the district superintendent did not handle it but pushed it up under the rug.

It was not okay when we were leaving.

It was not okay after we left because we were "bitter" and "backslid".

It is not okay now because we no longer attend.

See, it just isn't okay.

Which means, according to the UPC, it is not and never was okay for me to have an opinion, a voice, a question, a comment or ANYTHING negative.

But it was okay when we assisted for free for 9 years. It was okay when we built a church and financed it for 5 years. It was okay when we pastored practically for free for another 5 years.

See, giving and praising and all that is okay.

But don't you ever, ever criticize, even if people are embezzling and the district superintendent is covering it up. Because that would be WRONG!

And there you have it. :)
And on and on and on and on.

You really don't understand. It's not that you had an opinion or criticism, it's that you tell us over and over and over and over and over and over...and not just you but others and if you REALLY Did understand Mich's point, you'd be more sympathetic than defensive over it.

Over and over and over and over, month after month, year after year...I set my watch by it :heeheehee

It's OLD

[Praxeas]

This probably deserves a whole other thread but, I find this whole subject interesting. In my youth, I went to a church where the pastor held a license and the church was registered as a UPC church. At this church the UPC, the politics and talking points were endorsed heavily. The people ate it up and called themselves UPC. The church I attend now and for the last 22 years would be considered independent. My pastor and I are licensed with the UPC. In the last 22 years I haven't heard a mention of the UPC behind the pulpit but we do hear a lot about The Kingdom. In fact, almost all of our members would have no clue what you are talking about if you said the word UPC. I associate with plenty of licensed ministers and rarely hear anything of the UPC. I think I hear more about the UPC here than any where else I go, except a maybe certain district function. I think in an environment when an earthly kingdom is promoted over Gods kingdom people are likely to be hurt. I would blame this on the ministry that is doing this and not the organization they hold a license with.
I'd personally prefer not to hear from the Pulpit anything about any organization other than the Kingdom of God

[endtimer]

I'd personally prefer not to hear from the Pulpit anything about any organization other than the Kingdom of God
Amen. Amen.

[ILG]

Why here? Of all places knowing there are people here that still go to the UPC?

I don't think you REALLY understand what Mich is saying. It's US who are tired of it who weary. IT'S OLD. It goes on over and over and over and over.

Because I can do what I want.

[Reader]

Over and over and over and over, month after month, year after year...I set my watch by it

It's OLD

That's how I feel about the continual anti-Bible/faith/Christian posts & polls seen here. Do you not tire of those?

[endtimer]

That's how I feel about the continual anti-Bible/faith/Christian posts & polls seen here. Do you not tire of those?

I get tired of those posts too. For me it's not so much the subject, but the negativity all together that gets old. I guess that's why I don't come here much anymore.

[Praxeas]

Because I can do what I want.
That doesn't answer why here and for the record, you can't do what you want.

You are permitted to do certain things here but not everything. Thus you are permitted to whine about the UPC even though you are no longer in it and I am permitted to reciprocate

But that does not answer, of all forums, WHY here in a forum where UPCers are would you do this?

You can climb Mt Everest too...do you? There is always a reason and "Because I can" is not a reason. It's the reason you are able to, not the reason you choose to.

[Praxeas]

That's how I feel about the continual anti-Bible/faith/Christian posts & polls seen here. Do you not tire of those?
Yes, I see more 'UPC' stuff though.

And I have said things about Timmy and others doing it.

But we try to allow open discussions, openess without bashing. truth should not fear testing.

But if you do have a problem with a certain post, you need to report it so the Admins can see it. We don't and cant read all posts

[Light]

Because I can do what I want.

Yes you can and every one who is sick of your constant scorn can put you on ignore.

[Praxeas]

I get tired of those posts too. For me it's not so much the subject, but the negativity all together that gets old. I guess that's why I don't come here much anymore.
Exactly.

But if more and more of you guys would report these posts to the Admin so they can see, perhaps something would happen

[Reader]

Yes, I see more 'UPC' stuff though.

And I have said things about Timmy and others doing it.

But we try to allow open discussions, openess without bashing. truth should not fear testing.

I see more anti-Bible/faith/Christian postings. Perhaps it comes down to what discussions are accessed, how this is viewed.

May I ask a question on this statement found in the rules? "We welcome and encourage visitors of other faiths to post and ask sincere questions in their honest search to learn more of our faith and about our wonderful Lord, Savior, and God whose name is Jesus Christ."

While you are most correct that truth should not fear testing, when participants are here who openly share they are either atheist or agnostic, my thoughts are they are not posting and asking "sincere questions in their honest search to learn more of our faith and about our wonderful Lord." When they continually attempt to cast doubts upon the Bible and faith, how is this allowed day after day, month after month and year after year? Posts are not questions or discussions because they want to learn about God, but rather appear to be because they wish to share how they feel the Bible is discredited or how faith is worthless and so on.

As this is an Apostolic board and the putting down of man-made Apostolic organizations is not welcomed here (there is a reason for my saying man-made...it is not a cut), then why is there not the same cry against the other, which is not man-made? The latter is set up by God & the former is about organizations set up by man that will come to an end.

My question is, how do these other posts (anti-Bible/faith/Christian) fall within your written forum rules? If ILG and anyone else is told to take her UPC related posts to ex-pents, then why aren't these others being told to take their posts to an atheist or agnostic board?

[Praxeas]

I see more anti-Bible/faith/Christian postings. Perhaps it comes down to what discussions are accessed, how this is viewed.

May I ask a question on this statement found in the rules? "We welcome and encourage visitors of other faiths to post and ask sincere questions in their honest search to learn more of our faith and about our wonderful Lord, Savior, and God whose name is Jesus Christ."

While you are most correct that truth should not fear testing, when participants are here who openly share they are either atheist or agnostic, my thoughts are they are not posting and asking "sincere questions in their honest search to learn more of our faith and about our wonderful Lord." When they continually attempt to cast doubts upon the Bible and faith, how is this allowed day after day, month after month and year after year? Posts are not questions or discussions because they want to learn about God, but rather appear to be because they wish to share how they feel the Bible is discredited or how faith is worthless and so on.

As this is an Apostolic board and the putting down of man-made Apostolic organizations is not welcomed here (there is a reason for my saying man-made...it is not a cut), then why is there not the same cry against the other, which is not man-made? The latter is set up by God & the former is about organizations set up by man that will come to an end.

My question is, how do these other posts (anti-Bible/faith/Christian) fall within your written forum rules? If ILG and anyone else is told to take her UPC related posts to ex-pents, then why aren't these others being told to take their posts to an atheist or agnostic board?
Use the Post Reporting tool. Let the Admin know.

[ILG]

Yes you can and every one who is sick of your constant scorn can put you on ignore.

Please do.

[Light]

Please do.

You got it!!

[scotty]

And from heaven, I hear my dear friend say...

Good Grief.

[FlamingZword]

I see more anti-Bible/faith/Christian postings. Perhaps it comes down to what discussions are accessed, how this is viewed.

May I ask a question on this statement found in the rules? "We welcome and encourage visitors of other faiths to post and ask sincere questions in their honest search to learn more of our faith and about our wonderful Lord, Savior, and God whose name is Jesus Christ."

While you are most correct that truth should not fear testing, when participants are here who openly share they are either atheist or agnostic, my thoughts are they are not posting and asking "sincere questions in their honest search to learn more of our faith and about our wonderful Lord." When they continually attempt to cast doubts upon the Bible and faith, how is this allowed day after day, month after month and year after year? Posts are not questions or discussions because they want to learn about God, but rather appear to be because they wish to share how they feel the Bible is discredited or how faith is worthless and so on.

As this is an Apostolic board and the putting down of man-made Apostolic organizations is not welcomed here (there is a reason for my saying man-made...it is not a cut), then why is there not the same cry against the other, which is not man-made? The latter is set up by God & the former is about organizations set up by man that will come to an end.

My question is, how do these other posts (anti-Bible/faith/Christian) fall within your written forum rules? If ILG and anyone else is told to take her UPC related posts to ex-pents, then why aren't these others being told to take their posts to an atheist or agnostic board?

You are right, however God has infinity patience, a person might rant for years against God, but they can not do nothing against the kingdom of God, Christianity keeps on growing despite the attacks from atheists and others.

God gives people time to repent, even if an atheist lives to be 100 years old there will be a day when that atheist is gone but Christianity will still be here.

For centuries atheists and their ilk have attacked God and the Bible, they are all gone, but the Bible and God are still here.

[Reader]

Use the Post Reporting tool. Let the Admin know.

Thanks, though you didn't answer my question. If these have not been taken note of in the 6-7 years it's been regularly happening, my reporting of any posts now doesn't appear like it would change a thing.

A point I attempted to make was comparing the recent very vocal outcry against posts that bring up the UPC, to the less vocal outcry against posts that are anti-Bible/faith/Christianity/God.

That's fine. I made the mistake of picking the wrong discussion in which to participate, where the protests flooded in about naming the UPC.

[ILG]

Thanks, though you didn't answer my question. If these have not been taken note of in the 6-7 years it's been regularly happening, my reporting of any posts now doesn't appear like it would change a thing.

A point I attempted to make was comparing the recent very vocal outcry against posts that bring up the UPC, to the less vocal outcry against posts that are anti-Bible/faith/Christianity/God.

That's fine. I made the mistake of picking the wrong discussion in which to participate, where the protests flooded in about naming the UPC.

You are completely right about this. I think all subjects should be allowed discussion without censorship (as long as they are respectful) but one has to wonder about the disparity.

[Praxeas]

Thanks, though you didn't answer my question. If these have not been taken note of in the 6-7 years it's been regularly happening, my reporting of any posts now doesn't appear like it would change a thing.

A point I attempted to make was comparing the recent very vocal outcry against posts that bring up the UPC, to the less vocal outcry against posts that are anti-Bible/faith/Christianity/God.

That's fine. I made the mistake of picking the wrong discussion in which to participate, where the protests flooded in about naming the UPC.
They don't get dealt with because nobody reports them or not enough are reporting them.

That's my answer.

It's also not a comparison either because you are comparing views on things that are not personalized compared to talking about the UPC and those that believe or are still IN the UPC.

We don't read every post...you guys have to report this stuff

[Praxeas]

You are completely right about this. I think all subjects should be allowed discussion without censorship (as long as they are respectful) but one has to wonder about the disparity.
Can we talk about you? You seem to have a problem with the subject I am talking about with YOU always harping on the UPC..

BTW I did not censor anyone. Nobody was censored. If that was the case your posts would have been removed or you would have been banned.

What happened is some of us who are the few remaining UPCers or are not UPC haters are just TIRED of it ALL the time. You have no problem with doing it and believe it should be done because it does not have any affect on you personally. Nobody is constantly downing your church org or you on a forum that was supposed to be about APOSTOLIC FRIENDS..does anyone see the irony?

How many UPCers feel the "friendship"? How many feel it's Apostolic?

[Charnock]

I have learned that it is never okay to criticize the UPC (in my experience).

It was not okay when I was newly in the church because I was new and didn't "understand".

It was not okay when my husband was the assistant pastor and I was worship leader because we were just assisting.

It was not okay when we were in Home Missions because we were new pastors.

It was not okay when we started pastoring an established work because "they" said so.

It was not okay when we found embezzling going on because we were supposed to let the district superintendent handle it.

It was not okay when the district superintendent did not handle it but pushed it up under the rug.

It was not okay when we were leaving.

It was not okay after we left because we were "bitter" and "backslid".

It is not okay now because we no longer attend.

See, it just isn't okay.

Which means, according to the UPC, it is not and never was okay for me to have an opinion, a voice, a question, a comment or ANYTHING negative.

But it was okay when we assisted for free for 9 years. It was okay when we built a church and financed it for 5 years. It was okay when we pastored practically for free for another 5 years.

See, giving and praising and all that is okay.

But don't you ever, ever criticize, even if people are embezzling and the district superintendent is covering it up. Because that would be WRONG!

And there you have it. :)

And there you have it.

Here's what I find odd...this is supposed to be a forum, a place to exchange ideas, a place to share.

Yet the admins have absolutely killed this place. It's a shell of its former self.

[Charnock]

And on and on and on and on.

You really don't understand. It's not that you had an opinion or criticism, it's that you tell us over and over and over and over and over and over...and not just you but others and if you REALLY Did understand Mich's point, you'd be more sympathetic than defensive over it.

Over and over and over and over, month after month, year after year...I set my watch by it :heeheehee

It's OLD


This post is horribly offensive, as are most you type. You seem to relish hate.

[Charnock]

Can we talk about you? You seem to have a problem with the subject I am talking about with YOU always harping on the UPC..

BTW I did not censor anyone. Nobody was censored. If that was the case your posts would have been removed or you would have been banned.

What happened is some of us who are the few remaining UPCers or are not UPC haters are just TIRED of it ALL the time. You have no problem with doing it and believe it should be done because it does not have any affect on you personally. Nobody is constantly downing your church org or you on a forum that was supposed to be about APOSTOLIC FRIENDS..does anyone see the irony?

How many UPCers feel the "friendship"? How many feel it's Apostolic?

Is there anything or anyone you aren't tired of? You are constantly grumpy.

You have no business being an admin. You manipulate every conversation. You're too involved.

[ILG]

And there you have it.

Here's what I find odd...this is supposed to be a forum, a place to exchange ideas, a place to share.

Yet the admins have absolutely killed this place. It's a shell of its former self.

It is a shell of it's former self. I am not sure why that is. I think some (not all) of the administration behaves reprehensibly and I wish the rest of the admin would deal with that.

[Charnock]

It is a shell of it's former self. I am not sure why that is. I think some (not all) of the administration behaves reprehensibly and I wish the rest of the admin would deal with that.

Praxeas has little man syndrome. He thinks the person who screams the loudest, and acts the meanest, wins.

Meanwhile, other than the 43 admins there are about 4 consistently active posters left.

[Revelationist]

I was to busy cleaning eggs off my car and house...

[Charnock]

I was to busy cleaning eggs off my car and house...

:yourock

[n david]

This post is horribly offensive, as are most you type. You seem to relish hate.
Truth hurts sometimes, eh?

[Reader]

They don't get dealt with because nobody reports them or not enough are reporting them.

That's my answer.

It's also not a comparison either because you are comparing views on things that are not personalized compared to talking about the UPC and those that believe or are still IN the UPC.

We don't read every post...you guys have to report this stuff

Why would there have to be lots of people reporting them if the posting does not fall within the written guidelines? Just one report should do it I would think.

It is most certainly a comparison. Sharing that one's faith is essentially nothing is not personal? Telling them that they cannot trust things in the Bible isn't personal? Challenging someone to pray and heal a person while video taping it for all to see is not personal? I could go on and on.

Naming an organization in a post, while not naming anyone in the organization, is not personal. Not unless something is stated to the effect of, "Everyone in that group is (some negative remark)."

I believe that if I pounded some other discussion that was anti-Bible/faith in the same manner as was repeatedly done on ILG's discussion, I'd probably be reprimanded, maybe banned.

I DO get your frustration if there are a bunch of "anti" UPC discussions. Perhaps the board rules are due for a change?

[ILG]

Why would there have to be lots of people reporting them if the posting does not fall within the written guidelines? Just one report should do it I would think.

It is most certainly a comparison. Sharing that one's faith is essentially nothing is not personal? Telling them that they cannot trust things in the Bible isn't personal? Challenging someone to pray and heal a person while video taping it for all to see is not personal? I could go on and on.

Naming an organization in a post, while not naming anyone in the organization, is not personal. Not unless something is stated to the effect of, "Everyone in that group is (some negative remark)."

I believe that if I pounded some other discussion that was anti-Bible/faith in the same manner as was repeatedly done on ILG's discussion, I'd probably be reprimanded, maybe banned.

I DO get your frustration if there are a bunch of "anti" UPC discussions. Perhaps the board rules are due for a change?

The original intent of FCF, which this forum eventually derived from was so people could freely discuss any and all issues. When the forum founder, a UPC preacher, died, the forum morphed into different names, but the spirit of which is supposed to be a safe place for discussion. Just saying.

[n david]

The original intent of FCF, which this forum eventually derived from was so people could freely discuss any and all issues. When the forum founder, a UPC preacher, died, the forum morphed into different names, but the spirit of which is supposed to be a safe place for discussion. Just saying.

I knew the founder and his family for many years, and while he would allow discussion, he wouldn't have allowed the constant bashing as is happening now.

[Praxeas]

This post is horribly offensive, as are most you type. You seem to relish hate.
How is it full of hate and offensive? Saying it get's OLD to constantly hear "UPC this and that" is horribly offensive and hateful? lol.

[n david]

How is it full of hate and offensive? Saying it get's OLD to constantly hear "UPC this and that" is horribly offensive and hateful? lol.
Apparently.

Then he turned around and posted this gem:

They want you to shut up because your silence ensures the survival of the abusive system. Predators tell young children that they will kill them and/or their family if they ever tell about the abuse.

Silence never helps those who've been raped, beaten or robbed.
Compared the UPC to abusers, rapists, predators, and thieves.

But your post is the offensive one.

:toofunny

[Praxeas]

Why would there have to be lots of people reporting them if the posting does not fall within the written guidelines? Just one report should do it I would think.

It is most certainly a comparison. Sharing that one's faith is essentially nothing is not personal? Telling them that they cannot trust things in the Bible isn't personal? Challenging someone to pray and heal a person while video taping it for all to see is not personal? I could go on and on.

Naming an organization in a post, while not naming anyone in the organization, is not personal. Not unless something is stated to the effect of, "Everyone in that group is (some negative remark)."

I believe that if I pounded some other discussion that was anti-Bible/faith in the same manner as was repeatedly done on ILG's discussion, I'd probably be reprimanded, maybe banned.

I DO get your frustration if there are a bunch of "anti" UPC discussions. Perhaps the board rules are due for a change?
I don't know if they fall within written guildelines until someone reports them.

There is also a lot of grey area in the rules and I believe the more that complain the more likely that will affect decisions on those grey areas

But the fact is very few people report anything but they complain the Admins are not doing enough. And there are only 2 or 3 active Admins.

[Praxeas]

The original intent of FCF, which this forum eventually derived from was so people could freely discuss any and all issues. When the forum founder, a UPC preacher, died, the forum morphed into different names, but the spirit of which is supposed to be a safe place for discussion. Just saying.
That's not true.

This forum does NOT derive from FCF.

BTW I repeat, nobody was censored. Your posts were not deleted nor where you banned.

Just as you have the ability to UPC bash, I have the ability to complain. It's a free forum. (well not actually, someone has to pay for it)

The goal of THIS forum was always to be a place for Apostolics and former Apostolics (our friends) to come together and stay together. Lots of Friends who went to college together came so they could catch up and stay in contact

But the fighting began, it wasn't just disagreements over doctrine, but as I said it was railing against an entire group (the UPC) as well as all Conservative Apostolics.

And we gave you guys the leeway you demanded. The few stuff we did not allow were slanderous mentioning of other people by name both members and none members.

A lot of those Conservatives and UPCers got sick of it and left.

The result was a forum that was mostly liberal and moderates with a few Conservatives. And they all have their pet reasons for leaving or why the forum is not going according to their plan but their reasons all contradict each other. Essentially we were supposed to play baby sitter and did a bad job.

A lot of Liberals left and formed their own forum that died and I just wonder too if Charnock believes the Admin killed that too or does he just have a problem in general with Admins.

[Praxeas]

I knew the founder and his family for many years, and while he would allow discussion, he wouldn't have allowed the constant bashing as is happening now.
Not only that, I hear all the time about how FCF worked and questions about why.

But the fact is FCF was not around long enough to find out if it worked or not. Demographics change. Most people are on facefook with their own preferred group instead of being some place where they have to endure a daily barrage of attacks on them or their church affiliation

[Praxeas]

Apparently.

Then he turned around and posted this gem:


Compared the UPC to abusers, rapists, predators, and thieves.

But your post is the offensive one.

:toofunny
Exactly...that is classic Charnock. It reminds me of Gary Reckart on Facefook. Anyone that refutes his teaching get's blasted as a hater, all the while he is calling everyone liars and everything else, then he blocks you.

The "They are bitter" Mantra from people that are still Apostolic or UPC is old too but when you read this sort of stuff you can see there is a basis in reality when it comes to some

[navygoat1998]

Exactly...that is classic Charnock. It reminds me of Gary Reckart on Facefook. Anyone that refutes his teaching get's blasted as a hater, all the while he is calling everyone liars and everything else, then he blocks you.

The "They are bitter" Mantra from people that are still Apostolic or UPC is old too but when you read this sort of stuff you can see there is a basis in reality when it comes to some

I am not bitter, I am butter :icecream

[Praxeas]

I am not bitter, I am butter :icecream
Cooking with butter?

[navygoat1998]

Cooking with butter?

:heeheehee

[returnman]

I always smile and am cordial to the UPCer's when I see them. This is mainly for my own spiritual/psycho health. I am happier than ever so no need to harbor bitterness toward individual even though some threw me under the bus. That is something they have to account for. Interestingly, when it comes to Facebook, the more the conservative the less likely they will friend you.

[Monterrey]

Is it true that Charnock and Prax are really the same person?

That that person just used opposing views to stir controversy on this forum so it sells more papers?

That Charnock, Prax is really David Bernard in a an alter ego?

Is this true? Yes or no?

[navygoat1998]

Is it true that Charnock and Prax are really the same person?

That that person just used opposing views to stir controversy on this forum so it sells more papers?

That Charnock, Prax is really David Bernard in a an alter ego?

Is this true? Yes or no?

Or maybe he is Elvis who is still alive. :hmmm

[Disciple4life]

Is it true that Charnock and Prax are really the same person?

That that person just used opposing views to stir controversy on this forum so it sells more papers?

That Charnock, Prax is really David Bernard in a an alter ego?

Is this true? Yes or no?

Prax is David Bernard! Ha Ha! That is the funniest thing I have read on this forum. :highfive

[Praxeas]

I always smile and am cordial to the UPCer's when I see them. This is mainly for my own spiritual/psycho health. I am happier than ever so no need to harbor bitterness toward individual even though some threw me under the bus. That is something they have to account for. Interestingly, when it comes to Facebook, the more the conservative the less likely they will friend you.
I have a lot of non UPCers and former UPCers on my Friends list. Interestingly, someone that left the UPC but not because of how they were treated or any of the nasty accusations being made here (He decided to believe in the Trinity and become Greek Orthodox), unfriended me and everyone else from our church...and I was the only one that really knew he left.

[houston]

And on and on and on and on.

You really don't understand. It's not that you had an opinion or criticism, it's that you tell us over and over and over and over and over and over...and not just you but others and if you REALLY Did understand Mich's point, you'd be more sympathetic than defensive over it.

Over and over and over and over, month after month, year after year...I set my watch by it :heeheehee

It's OLD


Most threads on this forum are redundant.

[Jermyn Davidson]

I rued the day of ever stepping foot into a UPC congregation. Those are years I'll never get back; years I could have used doing something for God instead of sitting on a pew, because of a suspicious pastor who thought I was assigned by a trinitarian church to subvert and overthrow his congregation with trinitarianism.

This is funny and sad.