Do You Ever Think Of Going Back?

[Rico]

Do those of you that have left the more strict side of Pentecost for a life of enlightenment ever think of going back to what you once were? Do you ever make a comparison and feel that you were more blessed back in your ultr con days? Just thought I'd throw this out for discussion.

[berkeley]

Do those of you that have left the more strict side of Pentecost for a life of enlightenment ever think of going back to what you once were? Do you ever make a comparison and feel that you were more blessed back in your ultr con days? Just thought I'd throw this out for discussion.

I went back to a less strict, yet very conservative church. Most here would consider it moderate. I believe it is still conservative. Whatevah.
That does not mean that I am conservative again. So blessed to be a guy. :)

[Rico]

I went back to a less strict, yet very conservative church. Most here would consider it moderate. I believe it is still conservative. Whatevah.
That does not mean that I am conservative again. So blessed to be a guy. :)


It is easier for the men clothes wise. But there is more to being conservative than just clothes. There is a whole mindset there and approach to looking at things that is different.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

I went back to a less strict, yet very conservative church. Most here would consider it moderate. I believe it is still conservative. Whatevah.
That does not mean that I am conservative again. So blessed to be a guy. :)

So all Conservatives are sissies in your mind?

The church you attended? I thought you went back?

[Digging4Truth]

I never do.

But then again... nothing in my life has changed. Then only that has really changed is the way I view other people who don't dress/act like me.

I still live all I have ever lived but I find myself more compassionate towards others and more able to minister to them where they are.

Basically, in my mind, what has happened is that I have learned to separate flesh & blood from the principalities & powers that hold them captive.

But I don't me ever going back to the way I once believed. I don't think it is possible for me to do so.

[Theophilus]

I feel that I am conservative still, yet in a UPCi ultracon situation I would be labeled a mod or a lib, or a right out devil I'm sure. Actually, I have proof.

Our blessings come from God, not any particular ideology.

[Steve Epley]

Do those of you that have left the more strict side of Pentecost for a life of enlightenment ever think of going back to what you once were? Do you ever make a comparison and feel that you were more blessed back in your ultr con days? Just thought I'd throw this out for discussion.

Rico I am glad you started this thread. I was told last week about a man who was a renown preacher in ultra-con circle years ago, he took the church of a great Pentecostal icon. Then in the late 70's-early 80's went south. He lost the church after he had destroyed everything the former pastor had preached. So for the last 30 years has floated among the Charismatics and very liberal wing of Pentecost. Last Sunday night he shows up at a friend's church. The pastor had not seen the man in years but toward the end of the service recognized him and said he was glad to have him and asked him to stand and say something. He stood and told this ultra-con church this was one of the best messages he had heard in years and they should be thankful of the godly leadership of the pastor. After service he told the pastor he sorely missed the ole days and the good times and his old friends. I can tell many stories like this. But this just happened last week.

[Lucy Van Pelt]

You can't go back if you are going forward!

[berkeley]

So all Conservatives are sissies in your mind?

The church you attended? I thought you went back?

Conservatives are sissies??? How'd you extrapolate that from my comment?

I am attending a UPC, but it is not the church that "birthed" me. It is still Conservative in my mind, but where I came from would not consider it as such.

[Theophilus]

I never do.

But then again... nothing in my life has changed. Then only that has really changed is the way I view other people who don't dress/act like me.

I still live all I have ever lived but I find myself more compassionate towards others and more able to minister to them where they are.

Basically, in my mind, what has happened is that I have learned to separate flesh & blood from the principalities & powers that hold them captive.

But I don't me ever going back to the way I once believed. I don't think it is possible for me to do so.

Agreed.

[berkeley]

It is easier for the men clothes wise. But there is more to being conservative than just clothes. There is a whole mindset there and approach to looking at things that is different.

I agree. I decided not to make it a point of contention here. I love it. The people are great. I sometimes miss the church that birthed me, but I have too much history there. It was time to move on..

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

I agree. I decided not to make it a point of contention here. I love it. The people are great. I sometimes miss the church that birthed me, but I have too much history there. It was time to move on..

Berk, I never evolved to where I did not remember what I had learned. I am amazed as some very conservative ministers partake in events I could not do with my family. Yet, I don't condone what some other churches are a part of either.

Part of working out your own salvation deal. :thumbsup

[Steve Epley]

Another story a preacher whose name was a household word in the South and pastored as great church and a tremendous preacher. He preached conferences and campmeetings all over the South. He went the liberal route destroyed his church and since then has pastored so-called spirited filled Methodist & Baptist churches. Became a truck driver and was so embittered. But I heard of late he too is coming around churches of his past bemoaning what he has done. But again over 30 years of roaming and caused his own dear mother to die not practicing the teaching of he late husband. He is sorry and if he had it to do over. He saw the bright lights that only existed in his ego driven mind.

[Theophilus]

Rico I am glad you started this thread. I was told last week about a man who was a renown preacher in ultra-con circle years ago, he took the church of a great Pentecostal icon. Then in the late 70's-early 80's went south. He lost the church after he had destroyed everything the former pastor had preached. So for the last 30 years has floated among the Charismatics and very liberal wing of Pentecost. Last Sunday night he shows up at a friend's church. The pastor had not seen the man in years but toward the end of the service recognized him and said he was glad to have him and asked him to stand and say something. He stood and told this ultra-con church this was one of the best messages he had heard in years and they should be thankful of the godly leadership of the pastor. After service he told the pastor he sorely missed the ole days and the good times and his old friends. I can tell many stories like this. But this just happened last week.

I'm sure you could.

I would go back to a conservative UPCi church to visit...if they were like they were back in the old days.

I went to one a couple of weeks ago...you would have thought you were in a methodist church IMHO.

They told me I was welcome back anytime and then told the friends that brought us to have nothing to do with us.

Gotta love it.

[berkeley]

Berk, I never evolved to where I did not remember what I had learned. I am amazed as some very conservative ministers partake in events I could not do with my family. Yet, I don't condone what some other churches are a part of either.

Part of working out your own salvation deal. :thumbsup

You did not answer my question, and you are going in another direction. I am not sure that we are partaking of the same conversation.
How did you get "conservatives are sissies" out of my post?

And explain what you mean when you say "I never evolved to where I did not remember what I have learned."

[Theophilus]

You did not answer my question, and you are going in another direction. I am not sure that we are partaking of the same conversation.
How did you get "conservatives are sissies" out of my post?

And explain what you mean when you say "I never evolved to where I did not remember what I have learned."


Oh..oh..pick me..pick me..

Because you said at the end of the post that you were glad to be a guy.

[berkeley]

Oh..oh..pick me..pick me..

Because you said at the end of the post that you were glad to be a guy.

Right, because it is easier to blend into the UPC.

[Digging4Truth]

I'm sure you could.

I would go back to a conservative UPCi church to visit...if they were like they were back in the old days.

I went to one a couple of weeks ago...you would have thought you were in a methodist church IMHO.

They told me I was welcome back anytime and then told the friends that brought us to have nothing to do with us.

Gotta love it.

:killinme

Gotta love it indeed...

:killinme

[Theophilus]

Right, because it is easier to blend into the UPC.

I knew what you meant..and I think he did do, but was/is just being awnry.

[Subdued]

You can't go back if you are going forward!

Great point!

[Old Paths]

Another story a preacher whose name was a household word in the South and pastored as great church and a tremendous preacher. He preached conferences and campmeetings all over the South. He went the liberal route destroyed his church and since then has pastored so-called spirited filled Methodist & Baptist churches. Became a truck driver and was so embittered. But I heard of late he too is coming around churches of his past bemoaning what he has done. But again over 30 years of roaming and caused his own dear mother to die not practicing the teaching of he late husband. He is sorry and if he had it to do over. He saw the bright lights that only existed in his ego driven mind.


I really wish that both of the men you posted about could make it back.

I knew them both.

Many years ago, the 'truck driver" was my mentor and preached for me.

But, they can NOT make it back.

Too much damage.

Too many wrecks along the way.

Too much truth denied/forsaken.

There's a difference in backsliding (being overtaken by sin Gal. 6:1) and falling away. (Heb. 6:4-6)


jmo

[Jack Shephard]

There are some that leave for whatever reason and then return. Then leave and return and continue that process over and over. Most of these people have a rough time with the standards of dress. I left, but as of late came back to a UPC church. It is more a moderate church. For me it is the best thing.

If there was another church my wife would follow me to then I might go there. The drawing point to a new church would be if they were not UPC. Not all the UPC churches are bad, but there is the chance for the same puke to arise a them too.

[Digging4Truth]

Wow...

So much for there being nothing too hard for God.

[Steve Epley]

I really wish that both of the men you posted about could make it back.

I knew them both.

Many years ago, the 'truck driver" was my mentor and preached for me.

But, they can NOT make it back.

Too much damage.

Too many wrecks along the way.

Too much truth denied/forsaken.

There's a difference in backsliding (being overtaken by sin Gal. 6:1) and falling away. (Heb. 6:4-6)


jmo


Elder I fear you are correct. When Saul finally said I have sinned it was too late. I would hope God would have mercy on their souls and save them.

[Thad]

Elder I fear you are correct. When Saul finally said I have sinned it was too late. I would hope God would have mercy on their souls and save them.


are you defining them as reprobates ??

[Old Paths]

Elder I fear you are correct. When Saul finally said I have sinned it was too late. I would hope God would have mercy on their souls and save them.





:iagree

[COOPER]

Do those of you that have left the more strict side of Pentecost for a life of enlightenment ever think of going back to what you once were? Do you ever make a comparison and feel that you were more blessed back in your ultr con days? Just thought I'd throw this out for discussion.

Thoughts of going back to UPCI???...........Hmmm

Well I would only go back if, The particular UPC could tolerate my stance on "Not observing" dress and hair standards.

I have been greatly, greatly blessed since I have left.

[Theophilus]

Wow...

So much for there being nothing too hard for God.

Since when did God have anything to do with this? We are talking pentecostal politics here.

[tamor]

Wow...

So much for there being nothing too hard for God.

My thoughts too. :sshhh

[Theophilus]

are you defining them as reprobates ??

It's easier that way.

[Steve Epley]

are you defining them as reprobates ??

I don't know but they did and said some scary things and destroyed 2 good churches. One preached a message that nearly seemed blasphemy to me named "Bigots" called John the Baptist & Nehemiah & Ezra bigots. I would not be in their shoes for all the money in this world. But I do hope God has mercy on them. Who can tell if he will?

[Old Paths]

Since when did God have anything to do with this? We are talking pentecostal politics here.



So...You know the gentlemen that Elder Epley posted about?

[Thad]

Thoughts of going back to UPCI???...........Hmmm

Well I would only go back if, The particular UPC could tolerate my stance on "Not observing" dress and hair standards.

I have been greatly, greatly blessed since I have left.


COOP really now, what standards are you referring to Personally?
are you talking about for your wife or yourself?? There's not much for us Men to observe if you really think about it
how can you say you've been so greatly blessed yet you have not been able to find a church

[Charlie Brown]

I was sinking deep in sin, far from the peaceful shore.
Very deeply stained within, sinking to rise no more;
But the Master of the sea heard my despairing cry,
From the waters lifted me, now safe am I.

Chorus
Love lifted me! (even me)
Love lifted me! (even me)
When nothing else could help,
Love lifted me!

All my heart to Him I'll give, ever to Him I'll cling,
In His blessed presence live, ever His praises sing.
Love so mighty and so true merits my soul's best songs;
Faithful, loving service, too, to Him belongs.

Chorus
Love lifted me! (even me)
Love lifted me! (even me)
When nothing else could help,
Love lifted me!

Souls in danger, look above, Jesus completely saves;
He will lift you by His love, out of the angry waves.
He's the Master of the sea, billows His will obey;
He your Saviour wants to be -
BE SAVED TODAY!

Chorus
Love lifted me! (even me)
Love lifted me! (even me)
When nothing else could help,
Love lifted me!

[Ferd]

Go back? I really dont have anything to go back to. I was raised in a moderate UPCI church and I still attend a moderate UPCI church. I will say that I wish things were slightly more conservitive on some issues. Other issues I think all is good....

[CupCake]

Do those of you that have left the more strict side of Pentecost for a life of enlightenment ever think of going back to what you once were? Do you ever make a comparison and feel that you were more blessed back in your ultr con days? Just thought I'd throw this out for discussion.

Not a lot to go back to, I'm the same person I was before I joined, and how I leave now today. The only thing that has change is I no longer believe in the traditions of man as salvation, nor do I believe they are the only ones with this so-called truth~. To go back would be like the dog spoke of in the bible!

[berkeley]

I don't know but they did and said some scary things and destroyed 2 good churches. One preached a message that nearly seemed blasphemy to me named "Bigots" called John the Baptist & Nehemiah & Ezra bigots. I would not be in their shoes for all the money in this world. But I do hope God has mercy on them. Who can tell if he will?

A bigot is someone who can't tolerate any other opinions but their own.

[Old Paths]

I was sinking deep in sin, far from the peaceful shore.
Very deeply stained within, sinking to rise no more;
But the Master of the sea heard my despairing cry,
From the waters lifted me, now safe am I.

Chorus
Love lifted me! (even me)
Love lifted me! (even me)
When nothing else could help,
Love lifted me!

All my heart to Him I'll give, ever to Him I'll cling,
In His blessed presence live, ever His praises sing.
Love so mighty and so true merits my soul's best songs;
Faithful, loving service, too, to Him belongs.

Chorus
Love lifted me! (even me)
Love lifted me! (even me)
When nothing else could help,
Love lifted me!

Souls in danger, look above, Jesus completely saves;
He will lift you by His love, out of the angry waves.
He's the Master of the sea, billows His will obey;
He your Saviour wants to be -
BE SAVED TODAY!

Chorus
Love lifted me! (even me)
Love lifted me! (even me)
When nothing else could help,
Love lifted me!



Great song.

Sang it last night as a congregational #.

[Lucy Van Pelt]

I was sinking deep in sin, far from the peaceful shore.
Very deeply stained within, sinking to rise no more;
But the Master of the sea heard my despairing cry,
From the waters lifted me, now safe am I.

Chorus
Love lifted me! (even me)
Love lifted me! (even me)
When nothing else could help,
Love lifted me!

All my heart to Him I'll give, ever to Him I'll cling,
In His blessed presence live, ever His praises sing.
Love so mighty and so true merits my soul's best songs;
Faithful, loving service, too, to Him belongs.

Chorus
Love lifted me! (even me)
Love lifted me! (even me)
When nothing else could help,
Love lifted me!

Souls in danger, look above, Jesus completely saves;
He will lift you by His love, out of the angry waves.
He's the Master of the sea, billows His will obey;
He your Saviour wants to be -
BE SAVED TODAY!

Chorus
Love lifted me! (even me)
Love lifted me! (even me)
When nothing else could help,
Love lifted me!

Charlie, Charlie, YOU CAN'T SING!!!!!!

[Ferd]

There is a huge difference between a saint in a church leaving and returning, and a pastor turning his back on truth and taking an entire church with him....


As Brother E outlined it, I dont think those truths ended up being about standards....

I am with Brother E, I hope God shows great mercy.

[Thad]

I don't know but they did and said some scary things and destroyed 2 good churches. One preached a message that nearly seemed blasphemy to me named "Bigots" called John the Baptist & Nehemiah & Ezra bigots. I would not be in their shoes for all the money in this world. But I do hope God has mercy on them. Who can tell if he will?


calling bible characters bigots ?? wow that's a first for me

I have seen some open Bigots in my lifetime but I don't think anyone should name them openly

[Charlie Brown]

Great song.

Sang it last night as a congregational #.

They don't wrote them like that anymore, do they Elder?


Nowadays, all the songs are about "me, myself, and I".

[Old Paths]

There is a huge difference between a saint in a church leaving and returning, and a pastor turning his back on truth and taking an entire church with him....


As Brother E outlined it, I dont think those truths ended up being about standards....

I am with Brother E, I hope God shows great mercy.



Actually it was THREE different congregations.

One in MS.

One in LA.

and one in Texas and God alone knows the souls that were destroyed by false doctrines.

[Old Paths]

They don't wrote them like that anymore, do they Elder?


Nowadays, all the songs are about "me, myself, and I".


Amen.

Got to love the OLD PATHS. :D

While the song leader led the singing (note didn't say while praise singers were performing :D ), the Holy Ghost flooded the sanctuary last night.

It was awesome.

[berkeley]

Epley and OP,

Are you sure that VM is not going to start his own fellowship, or back the start of a new fellowship by someone that he mentors?

[Thad]

O wow, All Praise singers are just performers ?? ?

you learn something new every day

[berkeley]

Sad... only preachers can get paid for their services...

[Thad]

Epley and OP,

Are you sure that VM is not going to start his own fellowship, or back the start of a new fellowship by someone that he mentors?



what makes you bring that up Again and on this thread ??

is there something MORE that you know ?

[Lucy Van Pelt]

Sad... only preachers can get paid for their services...

Sounds like some think there are singers that prostitute the truth that are being paid.

[berkeley]

what makes you bring that up Again and on this thread ??

is there something MORE that you know ?

:lol

[Digging4Truth]

They don't wrote them like that anymore, do they Elder?


Nowadays, all the songs are about "me, myself, and I".

That one was about love lifting ME... :)

I think many of the modern worship choruses are more and more removed from the me, myself & I scenario...

An Example....

Verse 1:
I don't know how to say exactly how I feel
And I can't begin to tell you what your love has meant
I'm lost for words
Is there a way to show the passion in my heart
Can I express how truly great I think you are
My dearest friend
Lord, this is my desire
To pour my love on You

Chorus:
Like oil upon your feet
Like wine for you to drink
Like water from my heart
I pour my love on you
If praise is like perfume
I'll lavish mine on you
Till every drop is gone
I'll pour my love on you

Verse 2:
Is there a way to show the passion in my heart
Can I express how truly great I think you are
My dearest friend
Lord, this is my desire
To pour my love on you

[Old Paths]

Never said ALL praise singers were performers.

[Chewy]

Never said ALL praise singers were performers.

Most praise singers are stay at home moms, truck drivers, insurance agents, social workers, secretaries, etc. It is the praise leaders and chior directors, and music ministers you need to watch out for.

:D

[Old Paths]

Epley and OP,

Are you sure that VM is not going to start his own fellowship, or back the start of a new fellowship by someone that he mentors?



Berk

I don't know what Elder Morton is going to do, but he is not on the AMC steering committee.

[berkeley]

Berk

I don't know what Elder Morton is going to do, but he is not on the AMC steering committee.

Right, I am aware, I should not have asked it as "are you sure..." :)

[Old Paths]

I don't know but they did and said some scary things and destroyed 2 good churches. One preached a message that nearly seemed blasphemy to me named "Bigots" called John the Baptist & Nehemiah & Ezra bigots. I would not be in their shoes for all the money in this world. But I do hope God has mercy on them. Who can tell if he will?



The one from MS. told a man that a new convert was witnessing to about Jesus Name baptism to "not listen to this man. He is a Pharisee and is trying to be saved by works".

HOW DO YOU FIX THAT?

[Thad]

Never said ALL praise singers were performers.

glad you clarified it sounded like if you had a praise team instead of just a solo song leader it was for the purpose of performing.
most are used to just hold down harmony - mine are

[Pastor Keith]

Do those of you that have left the more strict side of Pentecost for a life of enlightenment ever think of going back to what you once were? Do you ever make a comparison and feel that you were more blessed back in your ultr con days? Just thought I'd throw this out for discussion.

Rico,

Let me say from the onset that one should never leave Jesus period. Now with that being said alot of people are more comfortable with the UC mindset and practice of loving God and with that there are certain affections, memories and things they loved about it. Basicly being nostaligic.

But there a parallel found in the NT, the book of Hebrews, keep in mind the big picture was convincing Hebrew Christians the superiority of the New Covenant over the Old. Along with that was all the trappings of the Old Way, the Temple complex, the elaborate worship rituals, the smells of the buring sacrafices, the chanting of the priests, the whole emotional, memory connection to the past life.

For some the journey was to hard to focus on faith (life in the Spirit) so they returned to the tangible, the predictable, the structured way of religion.

Now before every UC or those that lean that way come yelling at me, I realize not every UC is this way, but legalism is easy to fall into because of all the reasons listed above. It becomes the safety net instead of Jesus.

But your confidence in him alone, not in your commitment to him.

[Thad]

Most praise singers are stay at home moms, truck drivers, insurance agents, social workers, secretaries, etc. It is the praise leaders and chior directors, and music ministers you need to watch out for.

:D

Awe okay those who preach the gospel have never failed
should we look at all of them with a wary eye

[berkeley]

Rico,

Let me say from the onset that one should never leave Jesus period. Now with that being said alot of people are more comfortable with the UC mindset and practice of loving God and with that there are certain affections, memories and things they loved about it. Basicly being nostaligic.

But there a parallel found in the NT, the book of Hebrews, keep in mind the big picture was convincing Hebrew Christians the superiority of the New Covenant over the Old. Along with that was all the trappings of the Old Way, the Temple complex, the elaborate worship rituals, the smells of the buring sacrafices, the chanting of the priests, the whole emotional, memory connection to the past life.

For some the journey was to hard to focus on faith (life in the Spirit) so they returned to the tangible, the predictable, the structured way of religion.

Now before every UC or those that lean that way come yelling at me, I realize not every UC is this way, but legalism is easy to fall into because of all the reasons listed above. It becomes the safety net instead of Jesus.

But your confidence in him alone, not in your commitment to him.
Good post::::::

[Rico]

Thoughts of going back to UPCI???...........Hmmm

Well I would only go back if, The particular UPC could tolerate my stance on "Not observing" dress and hair standards.

I have been greatly, greatly blessed since I have left.

Brother, I think if a UPC church opened up close to you that didn't push the standards issue you'd be on it like white on rice. :)

[tamor]

Brother, I think if a UPC church opened up close to you that didn't push the standards issue you'd be on it like white on rice. :)

:lol:lol:lol:lol

[berkeley]

You did not answer my question, and you are going in another direction. I am not sure that we are partaking of the same conversation.
How did you get "conservatives are sissies" out of my post?

And explain what you mean when you say "I never evolved to where I did not remember what I have learned."


Boomer!!!!

[Theophilus]

Rico,

Let me say from the onset that one should never leave Jesus period. Now with that being said alot of people are more comfortable with the UC mindset and practice of loving God and with that there are certain affections, memories and things they loved about it. Basicly being nostaligic.

But there a parallel found in the NT, the book of Hebrews, keep in mind the big picture was convincing Hebrew Christians the superiority of the New Covenant over the Old. Along with that was all the trappings of the Old Way, the Temple complex, the elaborate worship rituals, the smells of the buring sacrafices, the chanting of the priests, the whole emotional, memory connection to the past life.

For some the journey was to hard to focus on faith (life in the Spirit) so they returned to the tangible, the predictable, the structured way of religion.

Now before every UC or those that lean that way come yelling at me, I realize not every UC is this way, but legalism is easy to fall into because of all the reasons listed above. It becomes the safety net instead of Jesus.

But your confidence in him alone, not in your commitment to him.

Really good points Keith.

[berkeley]

:lol:lol:lol:lol

That was ghetto!!! :lol

[Rico]

, I'm the same person I was before I joined,

This is what scares me the most. I don't want to end up the same person I was before I joined. I know you didn't mean it the way I am taking it, but in some ways I feel like I am worse than I was before I joined.

[tamor]

That was ghetto!!! :lol

:highfive Fo sho!

[berkeley]

:highfive Fo sho!

ah-naw-she-din't

[COOPER]

COOP really now, what standards are you referring to Personally?
are you talking about for your wife or yourself?? There's not much for us Men to observe if you really think about it
how can you say you've been so greatly blessed yet you have not been able to find a church

There are more blessing from Jesus than just Church, Thad.

Since I have been out of UPC and Church less We have been greatly blessed.

Here are some:

Our Marriage was saved.
Peace in the home
Family loves each other and the kids a are close.

God gave us a baby girl to adopt.

We purchased our first home that was built in 2000 with a $15,000. grant.

Less stress is in my life. etc, ect.

[tamor]

ah-naw-she-din't

Yeah she di-id. :killinme:killinme

[Rico]

Rico,

Let me say from the onset that one should never leave Jesus period. Now with that being said alot of people are more comfortable with the UC mindset and practice of loving God and with that there are certain affections, memories and things they loved about it. Basicly being nostaligic.

But there a parallel found in the NT, the book of Hebrews, keep in mind the big picture was convincing Hebrew Christians the superiority of the New Covenant over the Old. Along with that was all the trappings of the Old Way, the Temple complex, the elaborate worship rituals, the smells of the buring sacrafices, the chanting of the priests, the whole emotional, memory connection to the past life.

For some the journey was to hard to focus on faith (life in the Spirit) so they returned to the tangible, the predictable, the structured way of religion.

Now before every UC or those that lean that way come yelling at me, I realize not every UC is this way, but legalism is easy to fall into because of all the reasons listed above. It becomes the safety net instead of Jesus.

But your confidence in him alone, not in your commitment to him.

I have always felt that some people really do need all those rules or they just won't make it. They are boundry minded people and there's nothing wrong with that. I am not a boundry minded person, by any stretch of the imagination, but there are times when I look back and can see how those boundries benefited me in big ways.

[CupCake]

Rico,

Let me say from the onset that one should never leave Jesus period. Now with that being said alot of people are more comfortable with the UC mindset and practice of loving God and with that there are certain affections, memories and things they loved about it. Basicly being nostaligic.

But there a parallel found in the NT, the book of Hebrews, keep in mind the big picture was convincing Hebrew Christians the superiority of the New Covenant over the Old. Along with that was all the trappings of the Old Way, the Temple complex, the elaborate worship rituals, the smells of the buring sacrafices, the chanting of the priests, the whole emotional, memory connection to the past life.

For some the journey was to hard to focus on faith (life in the Spirit) so they returned to the tangible, the predictable, the structured way of religion.

Now before every UC or those that lean that way come yelling at me, I realize not every UC is this way, but legalism is easy to fall into because of all the reasons listed above. It becomes the safety net instead of Jesus.

But your confidence in him alone, not in your commitment to him.


Amen~ I believe this is the major reason why so many who do leave fall as hard as they do, their inner heart was never change, just their wardrobe. It became their God, and grace.

Mathew 7:23 tree and it's fruits
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[Sheltiedad]

Nope

[berkeley]

Yeah she di-id. :killinme:killinme
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tidr96VA39U

[Rico]

There are more blessing from Jesus than just Church, Thad.

Since I have been out of UPC and Church less We have been greatly blessed.

Here are some:

Our Marriage was saved.
Peace in the home
Family loves each other and the kids a are close.

God gave us a baby girl to adopt.

We purchased our first home that was built in 2000 with a $15,000. grant.

Less stress is in my life. etc, ect.


Coop, have you ever stopped to consider that maybe it's because you stopped being a threat to the enemy of your soul the moment you decided to walk away? I'm not berating you, ok. Just tossing that idea out. I know what the pressure can be like when you are in church and there is a certain amount of relief that comes from not having to deal with that pressure.

[Sherri]

Do I ever think we'll go back, or even want to? No, not for us. We are so happy and blessed in the work of the Lord right where we are. God has been especially good to us and we have seen so many people brought into the Kingdom in the past 15 years. We have seen healings, financial miracles, marriages restored, lots and lots of baptisms and Holy Ghost fillings.

Doing what we did is not right for everyone. There are lots of people who don't understand how to keep balance and they need a more rigid place in order to live for God. I totally understand that and don't blame them for staying. For us, this was definitely the right thing.

[Pastor Keith]

I have always felt that some people really do need all those rules or they just won't make it. They are boundry minded people and there's nothing wrong with that. I am not a boundry minded person, by any stretch of the imagination, but there are times when I look back and can see how those boundries benefited me in big ways.

Well the scripture says that which is not of faith is sin...

let everyman be fully persuaded in his own mind...

Remember the law (performance based faith) was a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ, impossible to produce righteousness though.

But very effective in showing our sinfulness. When I thought like that, believe me I became very aware of my continuing sinfulness.

[Rico]

Do I ever think we'll go back, or even want to? No, not for us. We are so happy and blessed in the work of the Lord right where we are. God has been especially good to us and we have seen so many people brought into the Kingdom in the past 15 years. We have seen healings, financial miracles, marriages restored, lots and lots of baptisms and Holy Ghost fillings.

Doing what we did is not right for everyone. There are lots of people who don't understand how to keep balance and they need a more rigid place in order to live for God. I totally understand that and don't blame them for staying. For us, this was definitely the right thing.

I am not asking you this to pick, ok? I just know that you once were and aren't now. Have you changed any of what you preach because of getting out, other than standards issues?

[Charlie Brown]

There are more blessing from Jesus than just Church, Thad.

Since I have been out of UPC and Church less We have been greatly blessed.

Here are some:

Our Marriage was saved.
Peace in the home
Family loves each other and the kids a are close.

God gave us a baby girl to adopt.

We purchased our first home that was built in 2000 with a $15,000. grant.

Less stress is in my life. etc, ect.



Not one mention of being closer to God. That is telling.

[Sheltiedad]

Coop, have you ever stopped to consider that maybe it's because you stopped being a threat to the enemy of your soul the moment you decided to walk away? I'm not berating you, ok. Just tossing that idea out. I know what the pressure can be like when you are in church and there is a certain amount of relief that comes from not having to deal with that pressure.

Rico, this mindset is how I was raised.... and this is exactly why I have no intention of ever going back. "If you aren't struggling in every area of your life, then you must not be enough of a threat to the devil for him to cause bad things to happen to you, therefore you are going the wrong direction"

[Theophilus]

I have always felt that some people really do need all those rules or they just won't make it. They are boundry minded people and there's nothing wrong with that. I am not a boundry minded person, by any stretch of the imagination, but there are times when I look back and can see how those boundries benefited me in big ways.

And they still can, if and when they are of God.

My boundaries are still very similar for the more part, but yet they come from my relationship to the Lord, not from a pulpit.

I do not purpose to bash a pulpit, many good teachings come from them, howbeit it is all that some go off of.

This is why when a leader goes astray...so many follow.

[Sherri]

I am not asking you this to pick, ok? I just know that you once were and aren't now. Have you changed any of what you preach because of getting out, other than standards issues?
No, Eddie never preached standards in UPC either, and he never believed that everyone was going to hell who hadn't been baptized like us or spoken in tongues. He didn't believe it when I met him, and has never preached it. Getting out of UPC only gave him the freedom to be more open about what he thought.

[COOPER]

Brother, I think if a UPC church opened up close to you that didn't push the standards issue you'd be on it like white on rice. :)
You have got that right bro.

[Rico]

Well the scripture says that which is not of faith is sin...

let everyman be fully persuaded in his own mind...

Remember the law (performance based faith) was a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ, impossible to produce righteousness though.

But very effective in showing our sinfulness. When I thought like that, believe me I became very aware of my continuing sinfulness.


I know what it is you are talking about. It seems like you are never good enough, never do enough just right, never measure up. It can be crippling. But I know people that thrive in those legalistic environments also. People that can pray like nobody's business. People that live blessed lives, both spiritually and monetarily. It seems as if their faithfulness to being a rule abiding saint buys them a certain peace of mind and frees them in some strange way. Keep in mind, I am not talking about everyone. I know for myself going this ruled route ended in my becoming one of the crippled I mentioned a couple sentences back. But it wasn't always that way. The strongest in the Lord faithwise I have ever been, and I am talking about being able to get God's attention to move on my behalf, has been during my time in the uc ranks. I am not saying that dress codes and abiding by all that is what made it possible, but it does seem as if abiding by all that extra biblical stuff produced a discipline in me that paved the way for me to experience things I haven't experienced since. Make any sense to you? Probly not, huh? :D

[Rico]

Rico, this mindset is how I was raised.... and this is exactly why I have no intention of ever going back. "If you aren't struggling in every area of your life, then you must not be enough of a threat to the devil for him to cause bad things to happen to you, therefore you are going the wrong direction"

S, it doesn't surprise me that you see it that way, but that is not how it was intended.

["GL"]

I was charismatic before coming into the UPC

and NO...., I never think about going back...

[CupCake]

Quote:
Originally Posted by COOPER View Post
There are more blessing from Jesus than just Church, Thad.

Since I have been out of UPC and Church less We have been greatly blessed.

Here are some:

Our Marriage was saved.
Peace in the home
Family loves each other and the kids a are close.

God gave us a baby girl to adopt.

We purchased our first home that was built in 2000 with a $15,000. grant.

Less stress is in my life. etc, ect.



Not one mention of being closer to God. That is telling.

From what I read Cooper is sharing what God has done for him and his family sense they left...A lot of blessings~

[Jack Shephard]

And they still can, if and when they are of God.

My boundaries are still very similar for the more part, but yet they come from my relationship to the Lord, not from a pulpit.

I do not purpose to bash a pulpit, many good teachings come from them, howbeit it is all that some go off of.

This is why when a leader goes astray...so many follow.

I think you have hit the nail square here! The thing that people that have not left can not see that there is happiness and holiness together. They see it is as sinning. They see it as compromising. It is not either of those.

There is so much outside the UPC and other organizations that is crazy when you think back to when you were under that old mindset how judgemental and legalistic you were. I for one look back at the old me and said there is no way any one could get into heaven the way I used to see things. I am sorry for that, so sorry! I have changed now though.

[Rico]

No, Eddie never preached standards in UPC either, and he never believed that everyone was going to hell who hadn't been baptized like us or spoken in tongues. He didn't believe it when I met him, and has never preached it. Getting out of UPC only gave him the freedom to be more open about what he thought.


Ok. Gotcha now. So, getting out for you and your hubby was really your way of just being able to preach, teach, and pastor what you already believed anyway.

[Thad]

I was charismatic before coming into the UPC

and NO...., I never think about going back...

Oh !! you've gone back to charismatic??? O wow I wasn't aware of that

[Jack Shephard]

The bible says in Hebrews 12 in the NLT that we are to "strip off every weight that slows us down, especially the sin that so easily trips us up....run withendurance the race God has set before us....we do this by keeping our eyes on Jesus, the Champion who initiates and perfects our faith!"

There are sins we need to set down. Those are the most important. But don't forget there are also weights that we carry that we need to set down too. For anyone that has ever been heavy due to having extra pounds on them they will understand this. It is harder to breathe sometimes when you are overweight. Once you lose that extra weight all of a sudden you breathe better and are healthier. There is the other side of the coin that people can lose weight and be less healthy, infact it can damage their health for good. You always have to be careful.

[Charlie Brown]

From what I read Cooper is sharing what God has done for him and his family sense they left...A lot of blessings~

If a move or change does not bring you closer to God, and make you more dedicated to him, is it a move toward God, or away from him?

["GL"]

Oh !! you've gone back to charismatic??? O wow I wasn't aware of that

:rolleyes2

Let me break it down for you Thad...

I was charismatic prior to coming into the UPC.

I've never thought about returning to the charismatic movement.

:D

[berkeley]

:rolleyes2

Let me break it down for you Thad, I've never thought about returning to the charismatic movement.

Are you a liberal?

["GL"]

Are you a liberal?

:rolleyes2:rolleyes2:rolleyes2

Who do you say that I am???

:lol

[berkeley]

:rolleyes2:rolleyes2:rolleyes2

I'm not very familiar with your posting. The green ring puts me off.

[Sheltiedad]

He's the Green Lantern!

["GL"]

I'm not very familiar with your posting. The green ring puts me off.

I'm sorry you don't like my power ring...

http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/img/GreenLantern_II.jpg

[berkeley]

He's the Green Lantern!

I am disoriented. Are you the Presbyterian?

[berkeley]

He's not a conservative. The suit is too tight.

[Theophilus]

I'm not very familiar with your posting. The green ring puts me off.

:killinme

["GL"]

He's the Green Lantern!

:thumbsup

["GL"]

He's not a conservative. The suit is too tight.

Ahhhhh, but I'm fully covered......

[CupCake]

If a move or change does not bring you closer to God, and make you more dedicated to him, is it a move toward God, or away from him?

I'd say Cooper closer to God now, due to the fact he asking and seeking out truth. Instead of going with the flow as many do. He very much at a cross road, he needs to decide, do I take the road of man made traditions that filled with pitfalls and bumps and many enter section, off ramps along the way, or do I travailed the straight and narrow path, the one that leads unto grace~

[berkeley]

Ahhhhh, but fully covered......

Too tight, not modest.

[Sheltiedad]

I am disoriented. Are you the Presbyterian?

I am SheltieDad, Swashbuckler, Selavi, Suitonim, Savonarolla, and Slippery Goat... only one of those made it over here though. lol.

[COOPER]

Not one mention of being closer to God. That is telling.
I love you too.

["GL"]

Too tight, not modest.

God looks at the heart...

[Sheltiedad]

Cooper,

They would have liked it better if you had said:

My wife left me
My dog died
I live under a bridge
But God has blessed me SO much!

[berkeley]

God looks at the heart...

Women will look other places...

[RevDWW]

You can't go back if you are going forward!

But if going forward is taking you in the wrong direction, going back my be a forward step in the right direction.......:lol:lol:lol

[berkeley]

I am SheltieDad, Swashbuckler, Selavi, Suitonim, Savonarolla, and Slippery Goat... only one of those made it over here though. lol.

You are swashbuckler. :mad:

[Sheltiedad]

You are swashbuckler. :mad:

Is that bad? I don't think I have ever had any disagreements with you... I was Sheltiedad first, I just started over.

[Theophilus]

But if going forward is taking you in the wrong direction, going back my be a forward step in the right direction.......:lol:lol:lol

Oh yeah!

Many have wished that they would not have taken that last step.

[CupCake]

I'm sorry you don't like my power ring...

http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/img/GreenLantern_II.jpg


One word Steroids:sshhh

["GL"]

Women will look other places...

Lust and adulterous thoughts come forth from the heart, not the eyes...

[Hoovie]

I was Old Order Mennonite before becoming moderate UPC - I have no intention of going back.

[CupCake]

Cooper,

They would have liked it better if you had said:

My wife left me
My dog died
I live under a bridge
But God has blessed me SO much!

Sad but true~

[berkeley]

Is that bad? I don't think I have ever had any disagreements with you... I was Sheltiedad first, I just started over.

I asked for Swashbuckler a forum and a half ago, as I noticed he disappeared!!... and no one said anything!!!

[Theophilus]

One word Steroids:sshhh

another word....complex.

[berkeley]

another word....complex.

Adonis Complex

[CupCake]

I was Old Order Mennonite before becoming moderate UPC - I have no intention of going back.

Lol~ So life a lot more wilder now????:lol

[RevDWW]

He's the Green Lantern!

I'm sorry you don't like my power ring...

http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/img/GreenLantern_II.jpg

Oh that's what that means......I thought it was a secert sign of ones orientation.......j/k...........:killinme:killinme:killinme:killinme

[Theophilus]

I was Old Order Mennonite before becoming moderate UPC - I have no intention of going back.

Why not? LOL

If you do, ask them if Jesus spoke German for me. I want to know their reaction.

[berkeley]

Oh that's what that means......I thought it was a secert sign of ones orientation.......j/k...........:killinme:killinme:killinme:killinme

:lol:lol:killinme:killinme:lol:killinme:lol

[Theophilus]

Adonis Complex

That's two words, but thanks for playing...;)

[RevDWW]

Lust and adulterous thoughts come forth from the heart, not the eyes...

If you eye offends you, pluck it out.........
If a man looks on a women to lust after her.........

["GL"]

:club:club:club

[Sheltiedad]

I asked for Swashbuckler a forum and a half ago, as I noticed he disappeared!!... and no one said anything!!!

lol, it was probably for the best... I am not a good influence :D I like the "forum and a half ago"... that is pretty funny considering the history of this group of folks. lol.

[berkeley]

That's two words, but thanks for playing...;)

I can count...

["GL"]

If you eye offends you, pluck it out.........
If a man looks on a women to lust after her.........


Exactly...

So the women would be better off to pluck their eyes out...

[berkeley]

lol, it was probably for the best... I am not a good influence :D I like the "forum and a half ago"... that is pretty funny considering the history of this group of folks. lol.

I am very upset now! The prayers that went up!!! The travail!! :lol

[Sheltiedad]

Oh that's what that means......I thought it was a secert sign of ones orientation.......j/k...........:killinme:killinme:killinme:killinme

I don't remember Green Lantern being so buff... this must be a newer version than the one from those old comic books I wish I still had.

[RevDWW]

:club:club:club

I see you have a bat, which side of the plate do you swing from........:killinme:killinme:killinme:killinme


GL, I'm just fun'n with yah, no offense meant!

[Theophilus]

I can count...

That's ok...that's what brothers are for...

[berkeley]

I see you have a bat, which side of the plate do you swing from........:killinme:killinme:killinme:killinme


GL, I'm just fun'n with yah, no offense meant!

Some have played in the minor leagues, but never go pro.

[CupCake]

I don't remember Green Lantern being so buff... this must be a newer version than the one from those old comic books I wish I still had.

And he wear tights....:sshhh

[RevDWW]

Exactly...

So the women would be better off to pluck their eyes out...

Boy I'm gald you said women.............:lol:killinme:lol:killinme:lol

["GL"]

I'm excercising my new found liberty in Christ...

Modesty is on the inside...

[Sheltiedad]

And he wear tights....:sshhh

Hey, at least he will know what to do if he gets a runner in his tights! Every good Pentecostal person knows 15 ways to fix that problem...

[Hoovie]

Life is more free for me. I also now have a distaste for legalism and can spot it a mile off.

This statement is not meant to reflect on all OOM or the UPC for that matter.

Yes Jesus can speak German - I am sure. Wiener schnitzel anyone?

[Theophilus]

I'm excercising my new found liberty in Christ...

Modesty is on the inside...

Well, at least you have it half right.

[CupCake]

Hey, at least he will know what to do if he gets a runner in his tights! Every good Pentecostal person knows 15 ways to fix that problem...

Lol~ True Well in that case I'll be Cat Women...;)

http://www.nursing.upenn.edu/otis/team/catwomws.gif

["GL"]

Okay, better get back to work at my day job...

http://www.worth1000.com/entries/232000/232113TACX_w.png

[Theophilus]

Life is more free for me. I also now have a distaste for legalism and can spot it a mile off.

This statement is not meant to reflect on all OOM or the UPC for that matter.

Yes Jesus can speak German - I am sure. Wiener schnitzel anyone?

Not can he...did he?

I know of only one Holy Language....

[Sheltiedad]

I just had this crazy image in my head of what a Pentecostal Superhero would look like. :D

[CupCake]

Okay, better get back to work at my day job...

http://www.worth1000.com/entries/232000/232113TACX_w.png

Must save the world! Well someone got do it...:)

[Sheltiedad]

Not can he...did he?

I know of only one Holy Language....

Heavenese?

["GL"]

Must save the world! ......


One windshield at a time...

[CupCake]

I just had this crazy image in my head of what a Pentecostal Superhero would look like. :D

Lol I find one....;)

[Theophilus]

Heavenese?

..if you please.

[RevDWW]

Hey, at least he will know what to do if he gets a runner in his tights! Every good Pentecostal person knows 15 ways to fix that problem...

You get a runner in tights you have the ushers haul him out...............:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

[berkeley]

You did not answer my question, and you are going in another direction. I am not sure that we are partaking of the same conversation.
How did you get "conservatives are sissies" out of my post?

And explain what you mean when you say "I never evolved to where I did not remember what I have learned."


BOOMM!!!

[Hoovie]

Not can he...did he?

I know of only one Holy Language....

Of course he did. The bible is written in German!

[Trouvere]

Do those of you that have left the more strict side of Pentecost for a life of enlightenment ever think of going back to what you once were? Do you ever make a comparison and feel that you were more blessed back in your ultr con days? Just thought I'd throw this out for discussion.

Just a thought Brother.I have grown over the years.There are things I used to do that I will never do.There are things that I don't do that people teach against but I never understood why until God put it into me Himself.Even though the church I go to is very liberated in alot of ways and very merciful I am the same.I do have
more compassion for others though not hearing them bashed daily over the pulpit as some have to endure. I don't mind hard preaching though.I have hard flesh to deal with and need it.I know what I am.I need a good talking to once in a while.
Thank God for the preacher.We could not be saved if we followed the dictates of our flesh.The Rabbi lives on the inside when you have the Holy Ghost.We may ignore His voice but when we hear it on the inside and the pulpit comfirms it on the outside then we know God is talking to us.Its a wake up call.

Brother Rico we just went to the graveyard and they laid down the body of one of my husbands best friends.I cannot tell you how I felt when they closed the lid.He was only in his late forties.We did not expect him to die.Even though we know he went to be with Jesus as he loved God all the way through it was a sad thing.
We have to face our own mortality.I want to be saved no matter what.That is the most important thing.Go to church where you can be saved and stay saved.That is the most important thing.

[CupCake]

I just had this crazy image in my head of what a Pentecostal Superhero would look like. :D

;)

http://images-srv.leonardo.it/progettiweb/electra/blog/nicholson%20joker%20bn3.jpg

[Rico]

;)

http://images-srv.leonardo.it/progettiweb/electra/blog/nicholson%20joker%20bn3.jpg

That guys has make up on so you can forget that notion! LOL

[berkeley]

That guys has make up on so you can forget that notion! LOL

It's okay if he's in a drama production! :poloroid

["GL"]

Image removed - didn't want to offend anyone...

[Trouvere]

The bible is full of Pentecostal Super Heros
Paul,Peter,John etc. and they were for real.

[berkeley]

Real quotes... excellent work!!

[CupCake]

That guys has make up on so you can forget that notion! LOL

Rico~ I try to find an image of head spinning around, but the closes one was of Linda Blair....:killinme

["GL"]

Here ya go...

Charismatic superheros...

http://martiniministry.com/images/janandpaul_000.jpg

[CupCake]

Here ya go...

Charismatic superheros...

http://martiniministry.com/images/janandpaul_000.jpg

As my new friend Paris Hilton would say..."That's hot"!

[Rico]

It's okay if he's in a drama production! :poloroid

Nope. Not in any true blue UC kinda church. Nope, no way, not now, not ever! :)

[crakjak]

Another story a preacher whose name was a household word in the South and pastored as great church and a tremendous preacher. He preached conferences and campmeetings all over the South. He went the liberal route destroyed his church and since then has pastored so-called spirited filled Methodist & Baptist churches. Became a truck driver and was so embittered. But I heard of late he too is coming around churches of his past bemoaning what he has done. But again over 30 years of roaming and caused his own dear mother to die not practicing the teaching of he late husband. He is sorry and if he had it to do over. He saw the bright lights that only existed in his ego driven mind.

Men backslide and then return to God all the time. There are all kinds of examples of shipwrecks that can be used to prove almost any point you would like.

Such as the UC in North Texas that was so hard on his kids that they all hate him and his idea of church. He wouldn't let his wife go to a doctor for childbirth and the child died. He build a new building out on the highway as a testimony to the community to his stubborn attitudes. You can drive by on Sunday and see his car and maybe one or two more. He has financial resources, so he does care what anyone says or thinks. Not even his sons can reason with him, so now his sons and daughters hate his guts.

He has experience the bright lights of his own ego.

These stories do not prove anything, except that we must all walk humbly before God, and have compassion for those around us.

[CupCake]

Men backslide and then return to God all the time. There are all kinds of examples of shipwrecks that can be used to prove almost any point you would like.

Such as the UC in North Texas that was so hard on his kids that they all hate him and his idea of church. He wouldn't let his wife go to a doctor for childbirth and the child died. He build a new building out on the highway as a testimony to the community to his stubborn attitudes. You can drive by on Sunday and see his car and maybe one or two more. He has financial resources, so he does care what anyone says or thinks. Not even his sons can reason with him, so now his sons and daughters hate his guts.

He has experience the bright lights of his own ego.

These stories do not prove anything, except that we must all walk humbly before God, and have compassion for those around us.

It's just that another story~

[Margies3]

Do those of you that have left the more strict side of Pentecost for a life of enlightenment ever think of going back to what you once were? Do you ever make a comparison and feel that you were more blessed back in your ultr con days? Just thought I'd throw this out for discussion.

WOW! I am amazed. This thread was started at 4:21 pm and now it's only 8:42 pm and it's 16 pages long!!!

To answer your question: That's an interesting question. I would not even consider going back under the same strict standards. I don't believe they are necessary to please God and that when I did live them, I was only doing it in the hopes of possibly, by some far-reaching miracle, being "good enough" to be saved. In other words, for me, I was trying my best to earn my salvation. Only when I left did I finally understand that nothing that I do will earn salvation. Jesus already paid the price. And that by me trying so hard to do it myself, I am in a sense rejecting what Jesus did. I'm saying to God that Jesus blood was not enough. So NO, I would not go back.

However, I do miss the fellowship. I have some wonderful friends in the UPC who I truly enjoyed fellowshiping with both in church and outside of church. The good news is that I am finding that more and more of them are understanding that I have not rejected GOD. I've only rejected the idea of my works buying my salvation. Our fellowship is good now. :)

[Rico]

WOW! I am amazed. This thread was started at 4:21 pm and now it's only 8:42 pm and it's 16 pages long!!!

To answer your question: That's an interesting question. I would not even consider going back under the same strict standards. I don't believe they are necessary to please God and that when I did live them, I was only doing it in the hopes of possibly, by some far-reaching miracle, being "good enough" to be saved. In other words, for me, I was trying my best to earn my salvation. Only when I left did I finally understand that nothing that I do will earn salvation. Jesus already paid the price. And that by me trying so hard to do it myself, I am in a sense rejecting what Jesus did. I'm saying to God that Jesus blood was not enough. So NO, I would not go back.

However, I do miss the fellowship. I have some wonderful friends in the UPC who I truly enjoyed fellowshiping with both in church and outside of church. The good news is that I am finding that more and more of them are understanding that I have not rejected GOD. I've only rejected the idea of my works buying my salvation. Our fellowship is good now. :)

Do you still go to an apostolic church? The reason I am asking is because I don't know your story. Not looking for anything to pick over, ok.

[Margies3]

Do you still go to an apostolic church? The reason I am asking is because I don't know your story. Not looking for anything to pick over, ok.

No, Rico, I don't go to an Apostolic Church. I still believe in One God doctrine, baptism in Jesus' Name, etc. It's a long, complicated story that I'd rather not go into, but I can tell you assuredly, I feel good about where I am at right now and am more confident of my salvation than I have ever been.

[berkeley]

No, Rico, I don't go to an Apostolic Church. I still believe in One God doctrine, baptism in Jesus' Name, etc. It's a long, complicated story that I'd rather not go into, but I can tell you assuredly, I feel good about where I am at right now and am more confident of my salvation than I have ever been.

Start a oneness church... WOMAN, thou art loosed!! I set you free.. I set you free!!! glooooray!!!!

[Rico]

Start a oneness church... WOMAN, thou art loosed!! I set you free.. I set you free!!! glooooray!!!!


Dude, you are watching entirely too much tv. :tvhappy

[berkeley]

Dude, you are watching entirely too much tv. :tvhappy

I don't watch much tv..

[Margies3]

Start a oneness church... WOMAN, thou art loosed!! I set you free.. I set you free!!! glooooray!!!!

I AM free. And I would be a lousy preacher. So I guess I'll just stay where God has me planted for the time being. If He moves me, He moves me. But if He doesn't, His will is always where I want to be anyway. So I'm good where I am.

Thanks for the advice tho. I appreciate that you care.

[ManOfWord]

Do those of you that have left the more strict side of Pentecost for a life of enlightenment ever think of going back to what you once were? Do you ever make a comparison and feel that you were more blessed back in your ultr con days? Just thought I'd throw this out for discussion.

In a word.....NEVER! Not even once!

[Rhoni]

Do those of you that have left the more strict side of Pentecost for a life of enlightenment ever think of going back to what you once were? Do you ever make a comparison and feel that you were more blessed back in your ultr con days? Just thought I'd throw this out for discussion.

:ernie Nope..Like Emma I just feel holier than thou:lol:haloplug

[Steve Epley]

I am certain have no desire for the truth and the church that has always been. Some observe prophecy others fulfil it.

[ILG]

I get kind of wistful for the dream I once thought I had, but it was just that. A dream. The reality was far different. What I liked was there were few choices. Everything was cut and dried, black and white. Very simple. But ooooohhhhh so complicated. So, in the end, no. I think I am far better off now.

[H2H]

I get kind of wistful for the dream I once thought I had, but it was just that. A dream. The reality was far different. What I liked was there were few choices. Everything was cut and dried, black and white. Very simple. But ooooohhhhh so complicated. So, in the end, no. I think I am far better off now.


I hear you. It can be appealing...

[ILG]

I hear you. It can be appealing...

It is appealing. It makes things easy with few choices to make. But for what seems easy at the outset, there is a price to pay that is pretty heavy in the end.

[Coonskinner]

It is appealing. It makes things easy with few choices to make. But for what seems easy at the outset, there is a price to pay that is pretty heavy in the end.

Well, let the record show that there are those of us who have been in this Way for years and years, and are very, very happy and blessed, with no desire to go anywhere else.

i am one of those.

[Steve Epley]

Well, let the record show that there are those of us who have been in this Way for years and years, and are very, very happy and blessed, with no desire to go anywhere else.

i am one of those.

A GREAT BIG LARGE mega-dittos.

[H2H]

Well, let the record show that there are those of us who have been in this Way for years and years, and are very, very happy and blessed, with no desire to go anywhere else.

i am one of those.

I will count myself in this - notwithstanding "the way" could use some finetuning..... unless you mean The WAY as in Christ.

[COOPER]

Cooper,

They would have liked it better if you had said:

My wife left me
My dog died
I live under a bridge
But God has blessed me SO much!

Exactly, If I am blessed, it's the devils credit.

If I am cursed, it's Gods judgment.

But never the less, God has blessed my family tremendously.

I have to give Jesus the praise for his many blessings on my life before and after the UPCI.

But I have been blessed the most after UPCI any many ways.

If I where to tell it all, you would think I was bragging.

[H2H]

Exactly, If I am blessed, it's the devils credit.

If I am cursed, it's Gods judgment.

But never the less, Gods has blessed my family tremendously.

I have to give Jesus the praise for his many blessings on my life before and after the UPCI.

But I have been blessed the most after UPCI any many ways.

If I where to tell it all, you would think I was bragging.


Coop, you have gone a looong ways. To think you were once Oneness!:killinme:killinme

[berkeley]

Coop, you have gone a looong ways. To think you were once Oneness!

that's crazy..

[H2H]

:thumbsup:thumbsupthat's crazy..

[Arphaxad]

You can't go back if you are going forward!

unless you're going in circles.:thebunny



ARPH :doggyrun

[ThePastorsCoach]

Do You Ever Think Of Going Back?

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CupCake]

Exactly, If I am blessed, it's the devils credit.

If I am cursed, it's Gods judgment.

But never the less, Gods has blessed my family tremendously.

I have to give Jesus the praise for his many blessings on my life before and after the UPCI.

But I have been blessed the most after UPCI any many ways.

If I where to tell it all, you would think I was bragging.

Sadly what you say here is true~ Cooper your alright dude...;)

[Sherri]

It is appealing. It makes things easy with few choices to make. But for what seems easy at the outset, there is a price to pay that is pretty heavy in the end.
In many ways, it is much easier going to a church where there are a lot of rules/standards to live by. You really don't have to make decisions as everything is lined out for you. It is much more difficult to go to a church where you have to search out for yourself what is right and wrong. Some people cannot live for God in a setting where they have to make those decisions; those people need a structured environment and that's where they should go. Different strokes for different folks.

[ThePastorsCoach]

Back to:
My son saw a very popular UPC girl at a Campmeeting. They had been good friends at youth camp for years. She had a baby in her arms and said - Aaron, Did you know I had a baby? He said - I didn't even know you got married!!!!!
She looked him in the eyes and said - I didn't get married!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He said - you mean you had a baby and you are not married?????????
She said BOLDLY - "I may have had some problems - BUT I NEVER CUT MY HAIR!!!!!!!!!!"
He said quietly - "Well, maybe you should have cut your hair!"
He came to me and said - "Dad, Is that wacky or what?"

Back to:
"You better stop preaching for that _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ bunch (Independent Oneness Church) or your gonna be in trouble!

Back to: Preaching about - Hair up, hair down, Miracle Hair, Healing hair, no chopsticks, no "burnaments", no curlers, no "burning irons", no Mickey Mouse watches, no colored lip gloss, no ball caps, no sunglasses, the UPC church across town is all "HOMOSEX" or has "LESBUNS" on the "Choir Stand"! Britches, pants, trousers, gouchos, split skirts, culottes, red ties, open toed shoes, facial hair, manicures, pedicures, men with hair cut too short makes you look HOMO, Men with hair too long makes you look HOMO, Men with hair parted down middle makes you look HOMO, Men with sideburns past "squiggle point" have an Elvis spirit. Men with loose pants with pleats - makes you look HOMO, Men with pants with NO PLEATS makes you look HOMO - queer, limp wristed, panty waisted, yellow backed and sissified. And on and on and on........................

BACK????????????????? NOT ON YOUR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[apersimmon]

Well, let the record show that there are those of us who have been in this Way for years and years, and are very, very happy and blessed, with no desire to go anywhere else.

i am one of those.

Amen brother! BTDT with the other side. Zero desire to go back. :girlpopcorn (to the lib side that is...lol!)

[SDG]

Back to:
My son saw a very popular UPC girl at a Campmeeting. They had been good friends at youth camp for years. She had a baby in her arms and said - Aaron, Did you know I had a baby? He said - I didn't even know you got married!!!!!
She looked him in the eyes and said - I didn't get married!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He said - you mean you had a baby and you are not married?????????
She said BOLDLY - "I may have had some problems - BUT I NEVER CUT MY HAIR!!!!!!!!!!"
He said quietly - "Well, maybe you should have cut your hair!"
He came to me and said - "Dad, Is that wacky or what?"

Back to:
"You better stop preaching for that _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ bunch (Independent Oneness Church) or your gonna be in trouble!

Back to: Preaching about - Hair up, hair down, Miracle Hair, Healing hair, no chopsticks, no "burnaments", no curlers, no "burning irons", no Mickey Mouse watches, no colored lip gloss, no ball caps, no sunglasses, the UPC church across town is all "HOMOSEX" or has "LESBUNS" on the "Choir Stand"! Britches, pants, trousers, gouchos, split skirts, culottes, red ties, open toed shoes, facial hair, manicures, pedicures, men with hair cut too short makes you look HOMO, Men with hair too long makes you look HOMO, Men with hair parted down middle makes you look HOMO, Men with sideburns past "squiggle point" have an Elvis spirit. Men with loose pants with pleats - makes you look HOMO, Men with pants with NO PLEATS makes you look HOMO - queer, limp wristed, panty waisted, yellow backed and sissified. And on and on and on........................

BACK????????????????? NOT ON YOUR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I got to church so that a preacher can preach and feed my soul ... not preach to my apparel.

[Sherri]

Back to:
My son saw a very popular UPC girl at a Campmeeting. They had been good friends at youth camp for years. She had a baby in her arms and said - Aaron, Did you know I had a baby? He said - I didn't even know you got married!!!!!
She looked him in the eyes and said - I didn't get married!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He said - you mean you had a baby and you are not married?????????
She said BOLDLY - "I may have had some problems - BUT I NEVER CUT MY HAIR!!!!!!!!!!"
He said quietly - "Well, maybe you should have cut your hair!"
He came to me and said - "Dad, Is that wacky or what?"

Back to:
"You better stop preaching for that _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ bunch (Independent Oneness Church) or your gonna be in trouble!

Back to: Preaching about - Hair up, hair down, Miracle Hair, Healing hair, no chopsticks, no "burnaments", no curlers, no "burning irons", no Mickey Mouse watches, no colored lip gloss, no ball caps, no sunglasses, the UPC church across town is all "HOMOSEX" or has "LESBUNS" on the "Choir Stand"! Britches, pants, trousers, gouchos, split skirts, culottes, red ties, open toed shoes, facial hair, manicures, pedicures, men with hair cut too short makes you look HOMO, Men with hair too long makes you look HOMO, Men with hair parted down middle makes you look HOMO, Men with sideburns past "squiggle point" have an Elvis spirit. Men with loose pants with pleats - makes you look HOMO, Men with pants with NO PLEATS makes you look HOMO - queer, limp wristed, panty waisted, yellow backed and sissified. And on and on and on........................

BACK????????????????? NOT ON YOUR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you actually preach this stuff??? Thank goodness Eddie never preached all this to begin with!

[ThePastorsCoach]

Believe me Dan - I have heard EVERYTHING I listed and a list 10 times longer than this preached - all in the name of being Apostolic. None of that has anything to do with being Apostolic. Most that preach all that are mean and miserable control freaks and don't have a decent education!

[crakjak]

Do those of you that have left the more strict side of Pentecost for a life of enlightenment ever think of going back to what you once were? Do you ever make a comparison and feel that you were more blessed back in your ultr con days? Just thought I'd throw this out for discussion.

We are commanded, not to go back. I see no reason to go back. Besides, "back" is no longer there.

[SDG]

Believe me Dan - I have heard EVERYTHING I listed and a list 10 times longer than this preached - all in the name of being Apostolic. None of that has anything to do with being Apostolic. Most that preach all that are mean and miserable control freaks and don't have a decent education!

Backwoods "Holiness" .... I call it .... I thank God my pastor preached to my heart.

[COOPER]

Believe me Dan - I have heard EVERYTHING I listed and a list 10 times longer than this preached - all in the name of being Apostolic. None of that has anything to do with being Apostolic. Most that preach all that are mean and miserable control freaks and don't have a decent education!
That reminded me of a Singles Conference at Ron Libby's church in Maryland.......

for one reason or another; {I do not understand why}... Ron Libby started telling folks that where praising and dancing.

That they were, "in the flesh!!!!"

[Steve Epley]

Back to:
My son saw a very popular UPC girl at a Campmeeting. They had been good friends at youth camp for years. She had a baby in her arms and said - Aaron, Did you know I had a baby? He said - I didn't even know you got married!!!!!
She looked him in the eyes and said - I didn't get married!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He said - you mean you had a baby and you are not married?????????
She said BOLDLY - "I may have had some problems - BUT I NEVER CUT MY HAIR!!!!!!!!!!"
He said quietly - "Well, maybe you should have cut your hair!"
He came to me and said - "Dad, Is that wacky or what?"

Back to:
"You better stop preaching for that _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ bunch (Independent Oneness Church) or your gonna be in trouble!

Back to: Preaching about - Hair up, hair down, Miracle Hair, Healing hair, no chopsticks, no "burnaments", no curlers, no "burning irons", no Mickey Mouse watches, no colored lip gloss, no ball caps, no sunglasses, the UPC church across town is all "HOMOSEX" or has "LESBUNS" on the "Choir Stand"! Britches, pants, trousers, gouchos, split skirts, culottes, red ties, open toed shoes, facial hair, manicures, pedicures, men with hair cut too short makes you look HOMO, Men with hair too long makes you look HOMO, Men with hair parted down middle makes you look HOMO, Men with sideburns past "squiggle point" have an Elvis spirit. Men with loose pants with pleats - makes you look HOMO, Men with pants with NO PLEATS makes you look HOMO - queer, limp wristed, panty waisted, yellow backed and sissified. And on and on and on........................

BACK????????????????? NOT ON YOUR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No one has claimed every preacher in the Apostolic church was intelligent nor correct but these are extremes NOT the norm.
The girl is sad but it happens to libs-cons and in between. Fornication happens it is wicked sinful and scars them for life but it sadly happens. However boys cannot get pregnant.

[ILG]

In many ways, it is much easier going to a church where there are a lot of rules/standards to live by. You really don't have to make decisions as everything is lined out for you. It is much more difficult to go to a church where you have to search out for yourself what is right and wrong. Some people cannot live for God in a setting where they have to make those decisions; those people need a structured environment and that's where they should go. Different strokes for different folks.

In many ways, I wish it would have worked for me, but it never did.

[Ronzo]

Not going back...

[ILG]

Not going back...

I don't plan to ever go back. I don't think I ever could. That doesn't keep me from wishing the dream hadn't died...at least in the way I thought it was going to work. However, since God gives us the desires of our hearts, I still believe that my dream will be fulfilled in a way I haven't even thought of yet.

[philjones]

Not a lot to go back to, I'm the same person I was before I joined, and how I leave now today. The only thing that has change is I no longer believe in the traditions of man as salvation, nor do I believe they are the only ones with this so-called truth~. To go back would be like the dog spoke of in the bible!

So it was in vomit that you were saved?

[Ronzo]

I don't plan to ever go back. I don't think I ever could. That doesn't keep me from wishing the dream hadn't died...at least in the way I thought it was going to work. However, since God gives us the desires of our hearts, I still believe that my dream will be fulfilled in a way I haven't even thought of yet.
It will.

You can bank on it.

[Jack Shephard]

So it was in vomit that you were saved?

Vomit or the UPC is not what saved us. It was the HG. Yes we found the HG when we were apart of it. Thank God for that. I do not regret any of that. Infact, I thanks God for it. I do regret letting the oppression and legalism to sit on my shoulders and influence my view on everyone that is not like me. Part of that is my fault but you can only eat what you are being fed.

[Steve Epley]

So it was in vomit that you were saved?

Some folks are ingrates they have no thankfulness for the mother that birthed them and and nursed them.

[Ronzo]

And some folks worship the mother...

[Steve Epley]

And some folks worship the mother...

Yes that is so. Mothers have a special place no one else can fill.

[Ronzo]

I'd like to add... And some folks worship the mother...



And place her above God...

[Jack Shephard]

It will.

You can bank on it.

Dreams have nothing to do with the UPC. Dreams affect things around you. Dreams change everything. Now your surrounding should not affect your dreams, but sometime they do. I have certain dreams that could not be fulfilled while I am apart of the UPC or another organization with like beliefs.

[Steve Epley]

I'd like to add...



And place her above God...

Now that wouldn't right. The Father is NOT the Mother but he did purchase the Mother with his own blood.

[Rico]

I'd like to add...



And place her above God...

And some people treat their mother like dirt. Let's not forget that either.

[originalsecretplace]

Some folks are ingrates they have no thankfulness for the mother that birthed them and and nursed them.

Scripture says that the Jerusalem which is above is the Mother of us all. The mother is not an org.

[Ronzo]

And some people treat their mother like dirt. Let's not forget that either.
"the UPC" is not my mother... nor is "the apostolic church"

[originalsecretplace]

"the UPC" is not my mother... nor is "the apostolic church"

Great minds.... :killinme

[Steve Epley]

Scripture says that the Jerusalem which is above is the Mother of us all. The mother is not an org.

Who said it was? The UPC was NOT my mother however the Apostolic church I prayed through at was. They birthed , nourished, and sustained me.
That was God's plan. I am NOT going to curse them. The homechurch is NOT what it was when I found the Lord at that altar and baptized in that tank and blessed with those people. But I am NOT going to curse what gave me birth. They were there for me when I needed them.

[Rico]

Well, I have to admit that I started this thread because I have been thinking lately that maybe things were better when I was in a more controlled church environment. I prayed more, read my Bible more, talked to God more, worshipped more.........man, I used the be the first one out of the chute! :D I was more blessed financially, the list goes on. But, at the same time, I know where being in that controlled environment led me to and I don't want to go back there either. It seems that all the controlling and micro managing just went totally overboard and it was either push back or let this man take complete control of my mind. I don't think that's what God wants. I know He wants to control my thinking, but I seriously doubt that His way of doing it is through the preacher. The preacher isn't God, he's just supposed to point me in that direction. I just wonder if there is a way to have all the good things that I had, without having to put up with all the bad things I dealt with.

[Rico]

"the UPC" is not my mother... nor is "the apostolic church"


You don't consider the Church your spiritual mother, Ron? Forget about the UPC because this has nothing to do with the UPC.

[Ronzo]

Maybe you need to just discipline yourself more.

Perhaps the more structured environment was good for you personally.

Some of us need someone to prod us a little to do what we should...

[Ronzo]

You don't consider the Church your spiritual mother, Ron? Forget about the UPC because this has nothing to do with the UPC.
"The Church"? Yes. The "apostolic church"? no.

[Steve Epley]

"The Church"? Yes. The "apostolic church"? no.

Explain?????????????????????????

[Rico]

"The Church"? Yes. The "apostolic church"? no.

I'm sorry. You've lost me. Are you saying that you are not apostolic? I thought all this time you were.

[Ronzo]

I'm sorry. You've lost me. Are you saying that you are not apostolic? I thought all this time you were.
I don't hang that label on myself, any longer, Rico, no. I couldn't care less about wearing that label.

[Steve Epley]

I don't hang that label on myself, any longer, Rico, no. I couldn't care less about wearing that label.

What church did you getted saved in that is the question?

[Rico]

I don't hang that label on myself, any longer, Rico, no. I couldn't care less about wearing that label.

Ok. Does this mean you don't believe in Jesus Name baptism, speaking in tongues, Oneness, etc. anymore? Standards aren't what makes someone apostolic. What makes someone apostolic is following the apostle's doctrine 'cause they're the ones Jesus entrusted the Church with and they're the ones He used to give us instructions on the New Covenant.

[Ronzo]

Ok. Does this mean you don't believe in Jesus Name baptism, speaking in tongues, Oneness, etc. anymore? Standards aren't what makes someone apostolic. What makes someone apostolic is following the apostle's doctrine 'cause they're the ones Jesus entrusted the Church with and they're the ones He used to give us instructions on the New Covenant.


Yes, I 'believe' in Jesus' Name Baptism... Yes, I 'believe' in speaking in tongues... Yes, I'm Oneness to the core...


Funny how when someone no longer calls themself "apostolic", others immediately assume they "don't belive nuttin" anymore.


Rico, feel free to think whatever it is that you'd like to think about me.

Makes no difference to me really. I still love ya like a brother... even if you don't consider me yours.

[Rico]

You know, Brother Epley, the way I have been feeling the last month or so I would almost be willing to give someone like you a shot, mainly because you say you don't micro manage people's lives and whatnot. Changing the way I dress and shaving this beard really wouldn't be that big a sacrifice for me to make in order to get back the things that are most important to me, even though I don't believe for one second that following dress codes will have an impact on my making Heaven my home. Well, we'd definitely butt heads too much on tv though. :D

[Rico]

Yes, I 'believe' in Jesus' Name Baptism... Yes, I 'believe' in speaking in tongues... Yes, I'm Oneness to the core...


Funny how when someone no longer calls themself "apostolic", others immediately assume they "don't belive nuttin" anymore.


Rico, feel free to think whatever it is that you'd like to think about me.

Makes no difference to me really. I still love ya like a brother... even if you don't consider me yours.

Ron, stop jumping to conclusions. I haven't accused you of abandoning core apostolic beliefs. I am just trying to get an idea of what you meant when you said you are not apostolic any more.

[Ronzo]

Ron, stop jumping to conclusions. I haven't accused you of abandoning core apostolic beliefs. I am just trying to get an idea of what you meant when you said you are not apostolic any more.
That's usually the intent...

[Rico]

That's usually the intent...

Maybe for some, but have you ever known me to accuse someone of abandoning core apostolic beliefs before? Not that I know of. Why would I start with you? It just threw me for a loop when you said you don't consider yourself apostolic any more. Kinda the way it would throw a Catholic for a loop if another Catholic were to say they don't consider themself Catholic anymore.

[Ronzo]

No worries. Sorry I stutter stepped at ya.

[Rico]

No worries. Sorry I stutter stepped at ya.

No problem. So, have you changed churches as well? I know you used to go to RJs church and it was UPC, correct? I know there are lots of independant churches to go to too.

[Ronzo]

I no longer go there, no.

[Jack Shephard]

Well, I have to admit that I started this thread because I have been thinking lately that maybe things were better when I was in a more controlled church environment. I prayed more, read my Bible more, talked to God more, worshipped more.........man, I used the be the first one out of the chute! :D I was more blessed financially, the list goes on. But, at the same time, I know where being in that controlled environment led me to and I don't want to go back there either. It seems that all the controlling and micro managing just went totally overboard and it was either push back or let this man take complete control of my mind. I don't think that's what God wants. I know He wants to control my thinking, but I seriously doubt that His way of doing it is through the preacher. The preacher isn't God, he's just supposed to point me in that direction. I just wonder if there is a way to have all the good things that I had, without having to put up with all the bad things I dealt with.

Rico,
You are asking some tough questions. Let me ask you something though. With all the blessings and such that are not overtaking you now are you still paying tithe and everything? You don't have to answer me back on here, but do it within yourself. Another thing is that some of us are like far animals. We all work well, but some of us have to be prodded to do the work. Maybe having someone you have be a cover over you that you are accountable to will help you. You may not need to return to the UPC. It could be as simple of creating that accountability factor in your life.

God did not allow you to get to the point where you wanted to leave if He had not wanted you to or have provided the provisions to cover your needs. Rico, keep on the same track, but add back the accountabilty factor. I will pm you and give my experience.

[Ronzo]

It could be as simple of creating that accountability factor in your life.

God did not allow you to get to the point where you wanted to leave if He had not wanted you to or have provided the provisions to cover your needs. Rico, keep on the same track, but add back the accountabilty factor. I will pm you and give my experience.
That's the point I was trying to make earlier. Thanks for doing a better job at it, JT.

[Rico]

Rico,
You are asking some tough questions. Let me ask you something though. With all the blessings and such that are not overtaking you now are you still paying tithe and everything? You don't have to answer me back on here, but do it within yourself. Another thing is that some of us are like far animals. We all work well, but some of us have to be prodded to do the work. Maybe having someone you have be a cover over you that you are accountable to will help you. You may not need to return to the UPC. It could be as simple of creating that accountability factor in your life.

God did not allow you to get to the point where you wanted to leave if He had not wanted you to or have provided the provisions to cover your needs. Rico, keep on the same track, but add back the accountabilty factor. I will pm you and give my experience.


I'm a farm animal now? Gee, thanks! :D























Seriously, I am not going to church right now, but there is a UPC church here in town I have all but decided to give a try. I've talked with the pastor a couple of times and he and I are in agreement on some major issues. Don't really know why I haven't started going yet, to be honest with you. When I am in church I tithe.

[Jack Shephard]

I'm a farm animal now? Gee, thanks! :D























Seriously, I am not going to church right now, but there is a UPC church here in town I have all but decided to give a try. I've talked with the pastor a couple of times and he and I are in agreement on some major issues. Don't really know why I haven't started going yet, to be honest with you. When I am in church I tithe.


I do not think anyone would fault you if you went back. I mean look if you go eat at a restaurant and it is horrible so you desided to not go back but a few months later you do no one is gonna say anything to ya. If they do it is non of their business what is going on with your personal life.

[COOPER]

Some folks are ingrates they have no thankfulness for the mother that birthed them and and nursed them.

And some folks worship the mother...

Throw mama off the train!:killinme

[Rico]

I do not think anyone would fault you if you went back. I mean look if you go eat at a restaurant and it is horrible so you desided to not go back but a few months later you do no one is gonna say anything to ya. If they do it is non of their business what is going on with your personal life.


Well, you need to know that I have never been a member of this UPC church before. I moved here to go to church somewhere else and was in the process of looking for another church when that church got shut down. At one point I thought I was going to be moving to TN, to go to a church there, but that didn't pan out, at least not for now anyway. Most of my church experience has been with an independant church, but I have been a member of a UPC church for about a year or so, and also was a member of an ALJC church.

[Steve Epley]

That's usually the intent...

Ron why would you feel that way? You made the statement that honestly shocked me I knew where you went to church and I just couldn't understand what you were saying? Do you no longer feel they are essential?

[Jack Shephard]

Well, you need to know that I have never been a member of this UPC church before. I moved here to go to church somewhere else and was in the process of looking for another church when that church got shut down. At one point I thought I was going to be moving to TN, to go to a church there, but that didn't pan out, at least not for now anyway. Most of my church experience has been with an independant church, but I have been a member of a UPC church for about a year or so, and also was a member of an ALJC church.

I was raised up in an ALJC church. Then was a memeber of the UPC for 7 yrs. There is probably not an easy step to take. As you have said you do not want to enter that same system that lead you to leave. There is always times in our lives that we have questions and they are hard questions. The more Charismatic church I attend every now and again helped me answer them. There is always an answer to every question, but sometime we do not know where to look or how to find it.

[Rico]

I was raised up in an ALJC church. Then was a memeber of the UPC for 7 yrs. There is probably not an easy step to take. As you have said you do not want to enter that same system that lead you to leave. There is always times in our lives that we have questions and they are hard questions. The more Charismatic church I attend every now and again helped me answer them. There is always an answer to every question, but sometime we do not know where to look or how to find it.


This pastor seems pretty balanced. He's already overcome some objections because I had been told that he was a control freak by someone that proved to be one of the biggest liars I have ever met. He doesn't seem that way to me at all, and I know some people from where I used to go to church that started going there and they told me this pastor is far from what we were told he was. I didn't care for the music all that much, but I could probly live with it. I like a mix in music, but more of the older pentecostal sounding stuff. Theirs was mainly contemporary. The contemporary sound is cool too, but just doesn't feel as "churchy" to me. Maybe I'm gettin old, huh? :D

[Jack Shephard]

This pastor seems pretty balanced. He's already overcome some objections because I had been told that he was a control freak by someone that proved to be one of the biggest liars I have ever met. He doesn't seem that way to me at all, and I know some people from where I used to go to church that started going there and they told me this pastor is far from what we were told he was. I didn't care for the music all that much, but I could probly live with it. I like a mix in music, but more of the older pentecostal sounding stuff. Theirs was mainly contemporary. The contemporary sound is cool too, but just doesn't feel as "churchy" to me. Maybe I'm gettin old, huh? :D

"getting" old huh? If the SAS shoe fits.......

[Rico]

"getting" old huh? If the SAS shoe fits.......

Brother, I am so ready for a pair of Dr Scholls it ain't even funny! :lol

[Sherri]

Brother, I am so ready for a pair of Dr Scholls it ain't even funny! :lol

You guys are babies!! I'm 50 and I still wear spikes.:killinme

[Pragmatist]

Do those of you that have left the more strict side of Pentecost for a life of enlightenment ever think of going back to what you once were? Do you ever make a comparison and feel that you were more blessed back in your ultr con days? Just thought I'd throw this out for discussion.

My father was a licensed UPC minister that left the UPC when I was 13. I have attended various churches over the years: independent, AOG, Open Bible, UPC. I currently attend a UPC church and that is where I am most comfortable. It really bothers me when a church does not preach about the infilling of the Holy Ghost. I do not follow standards and thus do not participate in leadership, but am otherwise active in the church. I could possibly follow standards, but I would never believe they were necessary.

[Rico]

You guys are babies!! I'm 50 and I still wear spikes.:killinme

I weigh 300+lbs., and have one leg that is just a hair shorter than the other. Put those two together, add my age into the mix, and I am left with feet that hurt when I walk and a back that is weary of supporting all this weight. I have, however, put together a plan to lose some weight and get into shape some. This sedintary lifestyle is taking too much of a toll on me.

[Sherri]

I weigh 300+lbs., and have one leg that is just a hair shorter than the other. Put those two together, add my age into the mix, and I am left with feet that hurt when I walk and a back that is weary of supporting all this weight. I have, however, put together a plan to lose some weight and get into shape some. This sedintary lifestyle is taking too much of a toll on me.
Sorry, you know I was just teasin' you. Glad you are taking steps to get healthier though.

[Rico]

Sorry, you know I was just teasin' you. Glad you are taking steps to get healthier though.

I know you were just messin around. :D Still, them Dr Scholl's are looking more and more useful to me as time goes on. I don't care how ugly dem boogers are! LOL