View Full Version : " Are Christmas Trees Pagan ? "
Bishop1
06-07-2007, 10:13 PM
Are Christmass Trees PAGAN ?
JEREMIAH 10: 1 / 6
(1)
Hear ye the word
which The LORD speaketh unto you,
O House of Israel:
(2)
Thus Saith The Lord,
Learn Not The Way Of The Heathern,
and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven;
for the heathern are dismayed at them.
(3)
For the customs of the people are vain:
FOR ONE CUTTETH
A TREE
OUT OF THE FORREST,
The work of the hands
of the workman,
With An Axe.
(4)
THEY DECK IT
WITH SILVER
AND
WITH GOLD;
They Fasten It
With Nails
And
With Hammers,
THAT IT MOVE NOT.
(5)
They are upright
as the palm tree,
but speak not:
They must needs be borne,
because
they cannot go.
Be Not Afraid Of Them;
For They Do Evil,
NEITHER ALSO IS IT IN THEM
TO DO GOOD.
(6)
FORASMUCH AS THERE IS
NOT LIKE UNTO THEE.
O LORD;
THOU ART GREAT,
AND T
HY NAME IS GREAT IN MIGHT.
:13loads
WHAT SAY YE ?
__________________
http://www.acts238holinessorhell.com
"If there come Any unto You,
and Bring Not This Doctrine,
Receive him Not Into Your House,
Neither bid him God speed:
For He That Biddeth him God speed
IS A PARTAKER OF HIS EVIL DEEDS."
{II JOHN 1:10/11}
Bishop1
:girlpopcorn
Scott Hutchinson
06-07-2007, 10:29 PM
I personally don't do the Christmas tree thing because I have a personal conviction on the matter.
crakjak
06-07-2007, 11:16 PM
Are Christmass Trees PAGAN ?
JEREMIAH 10: 1 / 6
(1)
Hear ye the word
which The LORD speaketh unto you,
O House of Israel:
(2)
Thus Saith The Lord,
Learn Not The Way Of The Heathern,
and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven;
for the heathern are dismayed at them.
(3)
For the customs of the people are vain:
FOR ONE CUTTETH
A TREE
OUT OF THE FORREST,
The work of the hands
of the workman,
With An Axe.
(4)
THEY DECK IT
WITH SILVER
AND
WITH GOLD;
They Fasten It
With Nails
And
With Hammers,
THAT IT MOVE NOT.
(5)
They are upright
as the palm tree,
but speak not:
They must needs be borne,
because
they cannot go.
Be Not Afraid Of Them;
For They Do Evil,
NEITHER ALSO IS IT IN THEM
TO DO GOOD.
(6)
FORASMUCH AS THERE IS
NOT LIKE UNTO THEE.
O LORD;
THOU ART GREAT,
AND T
HY NAME IS GREAT IN MIGHT.
:13loads
WHAT SAY YE ?
__________________
http://www.acts238holinessorhell.com
"If there come Any unto You,
and Bring Not This Doctrine,
Receive him Not Into Your House,
Neither bid him God speed:
For He That Biddeth him God speed
IS A PARTAKER OF HIS EVIL DEEDS."
{II JOHN 1:10/11}
:girlpopcorn
Not again! Spare us!
Are Christmass Trees PAGAN ?
JEREMIAH 10: 1 / 6
(1)
Hear ye the word
which The LORD speaketh unto you,
O House of Israel:
(2)
Thus Saith The Lord,
Learn Not The Way Of The Heathern,
and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven;
for the heathern are dismayed at them.
(3)
For the customs of the people are vain:
FOR ONE CUTTETH
A TREE
OUT OF THE FORREST,
The work of the hands
of the workman,
With An Axe.
(4)
THEY DECK IT
WITH SILVER
AND
WITH GOLD;
They Fasten It
With Nails
And
With Hammers,
THAT IT MOVE NOT.
(5)
They are upright
as the palm tree,
but speak not:
They must needs be borne,
because
they cannot go.
Be Not Afraid Of Them;
For They Do Evil,
NEITHER ALSO IS IT IN THEM
TO DO GOOD.
(6)
FORASMUCH AS THERE IS
NOT LIKE UNTO THEE.
O LORD;
THOU ART GREAT,
AND T
HY NAME IS GREAT IN MIGHT.
:13loads
WHAT SAY YE ?
__________________
http://www.acts238holinessorhell.com
"If there come Any unto You,
and Bring Not This Doctrine,
Receive him Not Into Your House,
Neither bid him God speed:
For He That Biddeth him God speed
IS A PARTAKER OF HIS EVIL DEEDS."
{II JOHN 1:10/11}
Bishop1
:girlpopcornIt would certainly seem that this passage from Jeremiah show us a pagan practice that remarkably resembles Christmas trees (Christmas, as a holiday, came from a pagan Persian holiday celebrating the birth of Mithra, as well as from other sources, such as the Roman celebration of Saturnalia).
Digging4Truth
06-11-2007, 10:41 AM
I think this.
The practice of decorating an evergreen tree around the current calender date December 25 is indeed taken from pagan worship.
The part of the scripture above that you are quoting from may be speaking of a similar practice and it may not. The scripture isn't clear enough to tell for sure either.
The scripture does specifically mention early morning services on a particular day and call them an abomination (I'm pretty sure that is what God called them... I'd have to check) and that practice had to do with the early spring festival which still bears a stylized version of the name of the goddess Ishtar (Easter)
But... if I were going to take a portion of the scripture you quoted and use it in references to these pagan practices and their being practiced in Christianity I would use the following portion...
Hear ye the word which The LORD speaketh unto you, O House of Israel:
Thus Saith The Lord, Learn Not The Way Of The Heathen,
HeavenlyOne
06-11-2007, 06:39 PM
A popular misconception about 'the Christmas tree' verses is that, when one reads them correctly and as they are written, you will read that it's speaking of idols made of wood, not Christmas trees.
For the customs of the people are vain:
FOR ONE CUTTETH
A TREE
OUT OF THE FORREST,
This is what people did when making wooden idols.
The work of the hands of the workman, With An Axe.
Know what a woodman does? He doesn't just chop down trees, but carves them into statues. Ever seen the work of someone who does that?
THEY DECK IT WITH SILVER AND WITH GOLD;
They Fasten It With Nails And With Hammers,
THAT IT MOVE NOT.
They fastened trees down with nails so it wouldn't move? Why not leave it in the ground then???
No, it wasn't trees they were bringing in the house and decorating, but idols made of wood. It's that simple. No reason to read more into scripture than what is already there.
KwaiQ
06-24-2007, 08:32 PM
A popular misconception about 'the Christmas tree' verses is that, when one reads them correctly and as they are written, you will read that it's speaking of idols made of wood, not Christmas trees.
This is what people did when making wooden idols.
Know what a woodman does? He doesn't just chop down trees, but carves them into statues. Ever seen the work of someone who does that?
They fastened trees down with nails so it wouldn't move? Why not leave it in the ground then???
No, it wasn't trees they were bringing in the house and decorating, but idols made of wood. It's that simple. No reason to read more into scripture than what is already there.
I agree. Worshipping a Christmas tree is pagan. Putting one up in your house for tradition's sake is not necessarily a bad/evil thing. But to each there own I suppose.
mfblume
10-06-2007, 02:41 PM
A popular misconception about 'the Christmas tree' verses is that, when one reads them correctly and as they are written, you will read that it's speaking of idols made of wood, not Christmas trees.
This is what people did when making wooden idols.
Know what a woodman does? He doesn't just chop down trees, but carves them into statues. Ever seen the work of someone who does that?
They fastened trees down with nails so it wouldn't move? Why not leave it in the ground then???
No, it wasn't trees they were bringing in the house and decorating, but idols made of wood. It's that simple. No reason to read more into scripture than what is already there.
BRAVO! Someone else reads correctly! LOL
That is EXACTLY what the passage is saying. It is easy to miss the actual meaning from the 1611 KJV, and think it is actually a tree like a christmas tree. lol Common mistake.
Amen!
MrsMcD
10-06-2007, 08:41 PM
:thumbsup Way to go HO
drummerboy_dave
10-06-2007, 08:55 PM
Oy vey!
Digging4Truth
10-07-2007, 07:37 AM
BRAVO! Someone else reads correctly! LOL
That is EXACTLY what the passage is saying. It is easy to miss the actual meaning from the 1611 KJV, and think it is actually a tree like a christmas tree. lol Common mistake.
Amen!
Do you feel that today's "Christmas tree" is a derivative of pagan practices?
alogi
01-30-2008, 10:34 AM
First off the whole idea of christmas is pagan, along with
easter,valentines,saint patty etc.These holidays are of the Catholic cult.
They should not be observed by true Apostolics.
One cannot mix pagan and Christian ,that is what has been done here through these holidays. The Tammuz tree is just part of agreater diabolical, scheeme to turn the true worshippers away from the true God Jesus Christ.By observing things of this world. That is pay homage to the creation,instead of the one who creates.
Brethren remove yourselves from Idoltry.Let us get back to the worship of the Jewish God'' Jesus Christ''
Shalom
Alogi
HeavenlyOne
01-30-2008, 10:40 AM
Alogi, I see you are new here, but we don't care to talk about Christmas trees in January, regardless what side of the fence we are on.
Thank you.
MissBrattified
01-30-2008, 10:43 AM
:D
Joelel
01-30-2008, 11:09 AM
Are Christmass Trees PAGAN ?
JEREMIAH 10: 1 / 6
(1)
Hear ye the word
which The LORD speaketh unto you,
O House of Israel:
(2)
Thus Saith The Lord,
Learn Not The Way Of The Heathern,
and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven;
for the heathern are dismayed at them.
(3)
For the customs of the people are vain:
FOR ONE CUTTETH
A TREE
OUT OF THE FORREST,
The work of the hands
of the workman,
With An Axe.
(4)
THEY DECK IT
WITH SILVER
AND
WITH GOLD;
They Fasten It
With Nails
And
With Hammers,
THAT IT MOVE NOT.
(5)
They are upright
as the palm tree,
but speak not:
They must needs be borne,
because
they cannot go.
Be Not Afraid Of Them;
For They Do Evil,
NEITHER ALSO IS IT IN THEM
TO DO GOOD.
(6)
FORASMUCH AS THERE IS
NOT LIKE UNTO THEE.
O LORD;
THOU ART GREAT,
AND T
HY NAME IS GREAT IN MIGHT.
:13loads
WHAT SAY YE ?
__________________
http://www.acts238holinessorhell.com
"If there come Any unto You,
and Bring Not This Doctrine,
Receive him Not Into Your House,
Neither bid him God speed:
For He That Biddeth him God speed
IS A PARTAKER OF HIS EVIL DEEDS."
{II JOHN 1:10/11}
Bishop1
:girlpopcorn
All the holiday's have pagan things connected to them.Best to leave all of it alone.
HeavenlyOne
01-30-2008, 11:19 AM
All the holiday's have pagan things connected to them.Best to leave all of it alone.
So do the days of the week and months of the year.
Throw out the calendars!!
Digging4Truth
01-30-2008, 11:34 AM
All the holiday's have pagan things connected to them.Best to leave all of it alone.
Not that we are compelled to practice or celebrate them...
But... do the festivals set forth by God have pagan things connected to them?
ie... Passover, Feast Of Tabernacles etc
Digging4Truth
01-30-2008, 11:39 AM
So do the days of the week and months of the year.
Throw out the calendars!!
Honest question...
Can you understand where those who do not celebrate the holidays (such as myself) could see a difference between christmas etc which is part of our worship to God and the names of the days of the week which are simply part of our every day lives?
I do not celebrate these holidays in an effort to live my personal conviction to keep what I offer to God in worship as free from pagan influence as possible.
I do see the near impossibility of cleansing my every day life of these influences. Even the clock is built on a pagan concept.
But when I offer worship to God I strive, to the best of my ability, to do that according to the word and free from pagan influences.
Now... before you answer let me make this clear. I don't condemn anyone else for celebrating. This is mine & my families personal conviction that we love and are excited about.
I am just asking... since I see this comment so regularly when these discussion come up... can you not see where that particular line of delineation comes for us? Does it make any sense at all?
Just asking... Thanks in advance for your response.
alogi
01-30-2008, 02:43 PM
Christmas is pagan, church history has shown this.Its not Christ's bithrday.
One cannot take what is unholy and make it Holy.
This season is an abomination to God and one had better heed to what they attribute to God.
God is not one to be mocked
Alogi
OneAccord
01-30-2008, 07:47 PM
Honest question...
Can you understand where those who do not celebrate the holidays (such as myself) could see a difference between christmas etc which is part of our worship to God and the names of the days of the week which are simply part of our every day lives?
I do not celebrate these holidays in an effort to live my personal conviction to keep what I offer to God in worship as free from pagan influence as possible.
I do see the near impossibility of cleansing my every day life of these influences. Even the clock is built on a pagan concept.
But when I offer worship to God I strive, to the best of my ability, to do that according to the word and free from pagan influences.
Now... before you answer let me make this clear. I don't condemn anyone else for celebrating. This is mine & my families personal conviction that we love and are excited about.
I am just asking... since I see this comment so regularly when these discussion come up... can you not see where that particular line of delineation comes for us? Does it make any sense at all?
Just asking... Thanks in advance for your response.
It is precisely this kind of post that I have tremendous respect for. I won't disagree with what you say, and I won't try to "sway" you into my way of thinking.
What I will do is say that I have a lot of respect for people who stick to their convictions, without being judgemental toward others who do not share those convictions. It makes perfect sense to me that you are sincere in your effort to keep yourself unspotted from the world. I applaud your effort, and appreciate your spirit!
Huh, I have to ask. Not to make light of a serious topic, but isn't this usually done around Dec. 25th?
Digging4Truth
01-31-2008, 06:19 AM
Huh, I have to ask. Not to make light of a serious topic, but isn't this usually done around Dec. 25th?
Indeed... Unfortunately you are right. :)
Years ago we went to a church when we were in Texas and the pastor did not believe in keeping the holidays. I remember him telling me one time... I just don't think that it's smart to teach on these things in December. I think teaching on these things in January... when all those credit card bills come in... gets a much better reception. :)
He is, truly, a wise man.
My current stance of living and loving my own convictions and yet finding no fault in my brother who does not share those convictions was taught to me by that same pastor. I have not always held my convictions in this fashion. Years ago I was the zealous, in your face, person as well.
Thankfully through good teaching from a good man who taught me the nature of a great God I am free to enjoy my convictions and respect my brothers.
I like this way much better.
brotherjason
01-31-2008, 07:46 AM
Christmas is pagan, church history has shown this.Its not Christ's bithrday.
One cannot take what is unholy and make it Holy.
This season is an abomination to God and one had better heed to what they attribute to God.
God is not one to be mocked
Alogi
Amen! Even the puritans saw it for what it was, they outlawed it! It's another tradition handed down from the harlot. :) I don't make many friends that way, but it's the truth anyhow!
AmazingGrace
01-31-2008, 11:26 AM
Yes Christmas trees may be pagan but I just use them to hide my Easter baskets and TV!
p.s. Happy St Pattys day! and Trick or Treat!
RevBuddy
01-31-2008, 12:39 PM
Are Christmass Trees PAGAN ?
JEREMIAH 10: 1 / 6
No, they're not, but the real ones are usually green...and the artificial ones are usually silver...
this should help you back to reality... :happydance
Digging4Truth
01-31-2008, 01:09 PM
There are definitely respect issues on both sides of the fence.
There are those who refrain who speak sarcastically to those who do not and vice versa.
Nothing is generally accomplished on any subject until both sides can speak with respect for each others position.
Barring that no growth can be expected.
RevBuddy
01-31-2008, 01:28 PM
There are definitely respect issues on both sides of the fence.
There are those who refrain who speak sarcastically to those who do not and vice versa.
Nothing is generally accomplished on any subject until both sides can speak with respect for each others position.
Barring that no growth can be expected.
HUH?????
Digging4Truth
01-31-2008, 01:32 PM
HUH?????
On this subject there are, admittedly, a plethora of those on the side of refraining from the holidays who speak to those who would disagree with disdain, insults & attacks. For that I am not proud.
But on the side of those who practice the holidays there are often equally as distasteful remarks and attitudes at work.
People too often make cuts at those who do not see things as they do rather than simply discussing these things openly, fairly and with respect for one another position.
Until that happens nothing very substantial will be accomplished.
Jason B
11-30-2009, 08:22 PM
bump-Is Jeremiah 10 speaking of the "christmas tree?"
Digging4Truth
12-01-2009, 06:47 AM
BRAVO! Someone else reads correctly! LOL
That is EXACTLY what the passage is saying. It is easy to miss the actual meaning from the 1611 KJV, and think it is actually a tree like a christmas tree. lol Common mistake.
Amen!
But the passage did say to not learn the way of the Heathen right?
The question asked of the thread is whether the christmas tree is pagan...
Would anyone disagree that it is a direct descendant of pagan rituals & customs adapted by the Catholic church?
Is it not then a way of the heathen?
Should it not, then, also go the way of the statues, eucharist etc?
Digging4Truth
12-01-2009, 06:48 AM
bump-Is Jeremiah 10 speaking of the "christmas tree?"
The portions that speak of cutting down a tree etc.... most likely not.
But it did instruct to refrain from learning the way of the heathen. The christmas tree is an adaptation of heathen worship.
Digging4Truth
12-01-2009, 06:49 AM
HUH?????
Do you feel that anger and disrespect is necessary for growth and truth?
Truthseeker
12-01-2009, 09:22 AM
Christmas is so vain, shallow and overrated.
Timmy
12-01-2009, 09:57 AM
Christmas is so vain, shallow and overrated.
And it probably thinks this thread is about it. :lol
KWSS1976
12-01-2009, 10:07 AM
alright Carly Simon...lol
Timmy
12-01-2009, 10:14 AM
:D
missourimary
12-01-2009, 10:24 AM
http://www.history.com/content/christmas/christmas-trees/evergreen-traditions
People used evergreen boughs in various pagan worship at a few points in history. They also used palms, though.
Jeremiah wasn't referring to Christmas trees, since there was no Christmas yet. He was referring to idols-Ashtera poles and such-to which people bowed down and worshipped.
There are people who are convicted by Christmas trees. If they are, that's ok. If they aren't, that's perfectly fine too.
Christmas tree traditions started in the 1500s. They were not the offspring of a pagan tradition as such. Martin Luther had a tree, so they probably weren't Catholic either. Christmas trees haven't always been decorated with gold and silver, nor are they always now.
I don't have a tree. I would want a real one but feel bad killing one. I don't like plastic trees. So I don't have one at all. But it isn't a conviction, just personal taste.
pastorrick1959
12-01-2009, 01:08 PM
amen
A month or so after I was baptized in Jesus' Name in October 1955 I started attending a UPC church in Racine, WI. There was a large decorated Christmas tree on the platform. I didn't really think anything of it because I had seen a Christmas tree in at least one denominational church.
Do you have a Christmas tree in your home or in your church?
Is it OK to have a Christmas tree in a home but wrong to have one in Church?
Digging4Truth
12-01-2009, 01:18 PM
Christmas tree traditions started in the 1500s. They were not the offspring of a pagan tradition as such. Martin Luther had a tree, so they probably weren't Catholic either. Christmas trees haven't always been decorated with gold and silver, nor are they always now.
Where did he come up with the idea of bringing an evergreen tree into his home on or around december 25th and decorating it in celebration of the birth of the son of God?
Digging4Truth
12-01-2009, 01:23 PM
A month or so after I was baptized in Jesus' Name in October 1955 I started attending a UPC church in Racine, WI. There was a large decorated Christmas tree on the platform. I didn't really think anything of it because I had seen a Christmas tree in at least one denominational church.
Do you have a Christmas tree in your home or in your church?
Is it OK to have a Christmas tree in a home but wrong to have one in Church?
I have a lot of beliefs that differ from those who are in charge of the churches I have attended and I generally just hold my beliefs to myself and let things go as they may.
But... I would not attend a church during the time they had a christmas tree displayed if the church I was attending did so.
I generally allow my children to take part in whatever programs their class is doing as they generally revolve around actual mentions of Christ etc but I have pulled my kids out of one program. They were singing O Christmas Tree.
I do my best to live and worship peaceably with my church family but I do have my limits.
pastorrick1959
12-01-2009, 03:30 PM
i will say amen to you again diggin for truth!
Jason B
12-01-2009, 05:19 PM
I generally allow my children to take part in whatever programs their class is doing as they generally revolve around actual mentions of Christ etc but I have pulled my kids out of one program. They were singing O Christmas Tree.
I do my best to live and worship peaceably with my church family but I do have my limits.
I do Christmas, but that is one taboo for my kids also. Won't be any of that. Also, family members got bent out of shape because I told my kids early on there was no Santa Claus. I didn't want their motivation for right living to be santa and toys, but rather Jesus Christ.
Scott Hutchinson
12-01-2009, 10:07 PM
Here is an article by Charles Halff,who was Jewish.
http://www.sovereigngrace.net/should.htm
Hoovie
12-01-2009, 10:20 PM
I do Christmas, but that is one taboo for my kids also. Won't be any of that. Also, family members got bent out of shape because I told my kids early on there was no Santa Claus. I didn't want their motivation for right living to be santa and toys, but rather Jesus Christ.
Awe yes. We told ours as well. We do not shun him entirely however, but just treat him as other imaginary characters (Peter Pan, Pinocchio etc.) Also, we share the true story of how St Nicholas helped to the poor.
But no lying! :)
Scott Hutchinson
12-01-2009, 10:38 PM
I've been a good boy maybe Santa will bring me a cap or two.
Awe yes. We told ours as well. We do not shun him entirely however, but just treat him as other imaginary characters (Peter Pan, Pinocchio etc.) Also, we share the true story of how St Nicholas helped to the poor.
But no lying! :)
We dont put up a Christ-mass:D tree, because while "decking it" in our home, I cannot get pass the thoughts that the origin of what I am doing, I feel, most likely does in fact stem from paganism or heathen customs (in which God despised), and hasn't got anything to do with Jesus, no matter what story I conjur up to justify it. 95% of all my friends do however, and we understand & respect eachother and are careful not to judge eachother, as I realize others are not led by my convictions, and vice versa.
I quoted you, Steve, for this reason: i had read somewhere about st. nicholas giving gifts to the poor, and found nothing wrong with, as in your post, finding the truth of that and st. nick, and sharing it with my kids, his giving to the poor and such. So to try to find info. concerning what he did, I came across this short read. I intend to tell them about st. nick, to some degree, but reading this article of what he supposedly did, makes me question what all the truth actually is behind the stories regarding him. It even says he calmed the seas. Maybe he did? ("who is this that even the winds and the seas obey him") I'll probably leave that one out:), but like you, maybe I should keep it basically on being known for "sharing with the poor".
here it is:
Any thoughts?
http://www.stnicholascenter.org/Brix?pageID=38
MomOfADramaQn
12-02-2009, 06:39 AM
Are Christmass Trees PAGAN ?
JEREMIAH 10: 1 / 6
(1)
Hear ye the word
which The LORD speaketh unto you,
O House of Israel:
(2)
Thus Saith The Lord,
Learn Not The Way Of The Heathern,
and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven;
for the heathern are dismayed at them.
(3)
For the customs of the people are vain:
FOR ONE CUTTETH
A TREE
OUT OF THE FORREST,
The work of the hands
of the workman,
With An Axe.
(4)
THEY DECK IT
WITH SILVER
AND
WITH GOLD;
They Fasten It
With Nails
And
With Hammers,
THAT IT MOVE NOT.
(5)
They are upright
as the palm tree,
but speak not:
They must needs be borne,
because
they cannot go.
Be Not Afraid Of Them;
For They Do Evil,
NEITHER ALSO IS IT IN THEM
TO DO GOOD.
(6)
FORASMUCH AS THERE IS
NOT LIKE UNTO THEE.
O LORD;
THOU ART GREAT,
AND T
HY NAME IS GREAT IN MIGHT.
:13loads
WHAT SAY YE ?
__________________
http://www.acts238holinessorhell.com
"If there come Any unto You,
and Bring Not This Doctrine,
Receive him Not Into Your House,
Neither bid him God speed:
For He That Biddeth him God speed
IS A PARTAKER OF HIS EVIL DEEDS."
{II JOHN 1:10/11}
Bishop1
:girlpopcorn
I guess I am ok then - I did not cut mine out of the woods -bought mine at a department store.
MomOfADramaQn
12-02-2009, 07:04 AM
I think organized religion is paganism at its best. Now - I am going to go finish decorating my 3 christmas trees that are in my house.
Jason B
12-02-2009, 08:17 PM
I guess I am ok then - I did not cut mine out of the woods -bought mine at a department store.
:toofunny
I guess I am ok then - I did not cut mine out of the woods -bought mine at a department store.
Some years ago I belonged to an organization called The Church of Jesus Christ Pentecostal Faith. Our Headquarters was at 1335 Fort Street in Niles, MI. Our Presiding Bishop was G.R. Brock. Bishop Brock was against grape juice in communion, television, and Christmas trees.
We had a church down in SW Kentucky where the father and an adult son both were preachers and I think both were in the organization. One year the adult son decided he was going to have a Christmas tree. The father was horrified but some of them went to the woods and brought home a tree. When they brought it into the house, the father called them "heatherns" and said they were disobeying the Bible. The younger preacher said, "No, we didn't disobey the Bible. The Bible says 'one cutteth a tree out of the forest.' We didn't just have one go out there and get that tree, a whole bunch of us got it."
Edit/Delete Message
simplyme
12-02-2009, 08:34 PM
First off the whole idea of christmas is pagan, along with
easter,valentines,saint patty etc.These holidays are of the Catholic cult.
They should not be observed by true Apostolics.One cannot mix pagan and Christian ,that is what has been done here through these holidays. The Tammuz tree is just part of agreater diabolical, scheeme to turn the true worshippers away from the true God Jesus Christ.By observing things of this world. That is pay homage to the creation,instead of the one who creates.
Brethren remove yourselves from Idoltry.Let us get back to the worship of the Jewish God'' Jesus Christ''
Shalom
Alogi
WAY TO GO, Alogi!
TRUTH will prevail!
i for one cannot fathom what prevents people from seeing something
so simple, so clear., although I have my hunch(es) :D
Bowas
12-03-2009, 06:44 PM
Are Christmass Trees PAGAN ?
JEREMIAH 10: 1 / 6
(1)
Hear ye the word
which The LORD speaketh unto you,
O House of Israel:
(2)
Thus Saith The Lord,
Learn Not The Way Of The Heathern,
and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven;
for the heathern are dismayed at them.
(3)
For the customs of the people are vain:
FOR ONE CUTTETH
A TREE
OUT OF THE FORREST,
The work of the hands
of the workman,
With An Axe.
(4)
THEY DECK IT
WITH SILVER
AND
WITH GOLD;
They Fasten It
With Nails
And
With Hammers,
THAT IT MOVE NOT.
(5)
They are upright
as the palm tree,
but speak not:
They must needs be borne,
because
they cannot go.
Be Not Afraid Of Them;
For They Do Evil,
NEITHER ALSO IS IT IN THEM
TO DO GOOD.
(6)
FORASMUCH AS THERE IS
NOT LIKE UNTO THEE.
O LORD;
THOU ART GREAT,
AND T
HY NAME IS GREAT IN MIGHT.
:13loads
WHAT SAY YE ?
__________________
http://www.acts238holinessorhell.com
"If there come Any unto You,
and Bring Not This Doctrine,
Receive him Not Into Your House,
Neither bid him God speed:
For He That Biddeth him God speed
IS A PARTAKER OF HIS EVIL DEEDS."
{II JOHN 1:10/11}
Bishop1
:girlpopcorn
Absolutely nothing to do with a Christmas tree. Agreed, much of it is of pagan origin, but to be an anti-pagan purist, you will most likely need to be a hermit or live in a controlled commune.
Please keep the words of Paul in mind...
1Co 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, (Christmas trees) we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
1Co 8:2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
1Co 8:3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
1Co 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, (Christmas trees)we know that an idol(Christmas trees) is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
1Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
1Co 8:7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol (Christmas trees) unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
1Co 8:8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, (Have Christmas trees) are we the better; neither, if we eat not, (Will not have Christmas trees) are we the worse.
1Co 8:9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of (Having Christmas trees)yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. (Have no Christmas trees)
1Co 8:10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
1Co 8:11 And through thy knowledge (with Christmas trees) shall the weak brother perish, (without Christmas trees) for whom Christ died?
1Co 8:12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
1Co 8:13 Wherefore, if meat (Christmas trees) make my brother (with no Christmas trees)to offend, I will eat no flesh (have no Christmas trees)while the world standeth, lest I make my brother (with no Christmas trees) to offend.
NOTE: The inserted RED is not found in the original manuscripts, but was added merely to show a point to the readers.
Truthseeker
12-03-2009, 06:52 PM
Absolutely nothing to do with a Christmas tree. Agreed, much of it is of pagan origin, but to be an anti-pagan purist, you will most likely need to be a hermit or live in a controlled commune.
Please keep the words of Paul in mind...
1Co 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, (Christmas trees) we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
1Co 8:2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
1Co 8:3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
1Co 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, (Christmas trees)we know that an idol(Christmas trees) is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
1Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
1Co 8:7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol (Christmas trees) unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
1Co 8:8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, (Have Christmas trees) are we the better; neither, if we eat not, (Will not have Christmas trees) are we the worse.
1Co 8:9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of (Having Christmas trees)yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. (Have no Christmas trees)
1Co 8:10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
1Co 8:11 And through thy knowledge (with Christmas trees) shall the weak brother perish, (without Christmas trees) for whom Christ died?
1Co 8:12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
1Co 8:13 Wherefore, if meat (Christmas trees) make my brother (with no Christmas trees)to offend, I will eat no flesh (have no Christmas trees)while the world standeth, lest I make my brother (with no Christmas trees) to offend.
NOTE: The inserted RED is not found in the original manuscripts, but was added merely to show a point to the readers.
eating meat has nothing to do with partaking with a customs of paganism.
1 John 5:21
21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols(Christmas tree) . Amen.
KJV
Truthseeker
12-03-2009, 06:55 PM
2 Cor 6:16
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols ?(christmas trees) for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
KJV
Truthseeker
12-03-2009, 06:56 PM
1 Thess 1:9
9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols(christmas trees) to serve the living and true God;
KJV
Bowas
12-03-2009, 07:40 PM
eating meat has nothing to do with partaking with a customs of paganism.
1 John 5:21
21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols(Christmas tree) . Amen.
KJV
Actually in these passages it is about idols and paganism.
Paul is trying to show the church, there are no such thing as any other god(s) and there is absolutely NO power in any of that stuff.
1Co 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
1Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
By allowing oneself to reject certain practices (not immoral ones), one give a measure of power to it and some legitimacy to the non-existent gods.
there is no power in meat sacrificed to idols, there is no power in a Christmas tree. If it offends a person, do not do it, just as Paul recommends.
Truthseeker
12-03-2009, 08:06 PM
Actually in these passages it is about idols and paganism.
Paul is trying to show the church, there are no such thing as any other god(s) and there is absolutely NO power in any of that stuff.
1Co 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
1Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
By allowing oneself to reject certain practices (not immoral ones), one give a measure of power to it and some legitimacy to the non-existent gods.
there is no power in meat sacrificed to idols, there is no power in a Christmas tree. If it offends a person, do not do it, just as Paul recommends.
Once again, eating meat is different then partaking with pagan customs. Idols are real and demons behind them.
Bowas
12-03-2009, 09:55 PM
Once again, eating meat is different then partaking with pagan customs. Idols are real and demons behind them.
To the people Paul was addressing, the eating of this meat was considered in the same manner you are referring to, which is why Paul tells them, 1Co 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
Paul does not give ANY power to or behind any idol. Why? Because there is no power in idols. Be it the idols Paul was referring to, or any other idol they or we may have, because there is only God. Paul was trying to show the people the powerlessness of idols to the point he would actually partake of that which was offered to idols knowing all the prayers they (pagans) may have made to these idols meant absoulely nothing, just empty words to a non-exsistent powerless god.
Paul claims idols are nothing. God is.
Jason B
12-03-2009, 10:22 PM
Truth seeker, are you saying Jerimiah 10 pertaineth to Christmas Trees? Are you also saying there is a "christmas tree demon?!" :hmmm
...Are you also saying there is a "christmas tree demon?!" :hmmm
just like the squirrel jumped out of the Christmas tree in Chevy Chase's home and threw the people into a panic, a christmas tree demon can jump out of a christmas tree in your home and throw the people into a panic.
Truthseeker
12-04-2009, 04:36 AM
Truth seeker, are you saying Jerimiah 10 pertaineth to Christmas Trees? Are you also saying there is a "christmas tree demon?!" :hmmm
Yep, the demon causes credit card debt and gluttony. :ursofunny
Truthseeker
12-04-2009, 04:38 AM
To the people Paul was addressing, the eating of this meat was considered in the same manner you are referring to, which is why Paul tells them, 1Co 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
Paul does not give ANY power to or behind any idol. Why? Because there is no power in idols. Be it the idols Paul was referring to, or any other idol they or we may have, because there is only God. Paul was trying to show the people the powerlessness of idols to the point he would actually partake of that which was offered to idols knowing all the prayers they (pagans) may have made to these idols meant absoulely nothing, just empty words to a non-exsistent powerless god.
Paul claims idols are nothing. God is.
Put up asteroth up in your home and you'll find out. :thumbsup
yes, eating meat offered up to a idol is harmless because the only God exist. Not the smae as partaking with idolatry.
pastorrick1959
12-04-2009, 06:30 AM
a spirit of paganism .
SOUNWORTHY
12-04-2009, 03:47 PM
Bah humbug.......:foottap
Bowas
12-04-2009, 06:50 PM
Put up asteroth up in your home and you'll find out. :thumbsup
yes, eating meat offered up to a idol is harmless because the only God exist. Not the smae as partaking with idolatry.
So are you saying, if I got an idol of Ashtoreth, Astarte Ashtar or as we call her, Easter ( carved wooden dead doll representing a mythical/non-existant goddess) something would happen because it has some sort of power? Huh?
And too, the eating of that meat WAS partaking of idolatry to the people back then. It was not just bringing the idolotrous into a home, but actually ingesting it into ones body. Which is worse?
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