Who was Harry Morse ?

[Scott Pitta]

Harry Morse founded the Pentecostal Training Institute in Oakland, California back in the 1930's.

One of his students was CJ Haney. Rev. Haney went on to found Western Apostolic Bible College in Stockton, California.

Did Harry Morse write any books ? Were any of you his friends or students ?

Where can I find more info about him ?

Pictures ??

Thanks !!

[CC1]

Morse Code?

[Steve Epley]

His name is found among Ewart, Cook, Haywood, and others.

[Reader]

I have something for you. In 1927 he organized the church in Oakland (if I correctly understand).

He was a District Sec for the PCI. Give me a couple minutes and I will share a page from a UPC publication- the western district our heritage book.

[Steve Epley]

Thanks I love this stuff.

[Reader]

The pictures didn't turn out the best, especially the one at the top, but Morse isn't in that one.

[Reader]

I can try again if anyone wants.

[Steve Epley]

Thanks. If I am correct most of these guys were not new birth guys.

[Reader]

You are welcome.

I am not aware one way or the other. This was the PCI, so it is likely, but not a certainty based solely upon that.

[Praxeas]

Hi Scott :heeheehee

[Reader]

Morse is mentioned in Fudge's Heretics & Politics book on 2 pages.

He is linked with C.H. Yadon, Goss & Ewart as having no problems with a statement such as "we believe in the unity of the Godhead."

On the other page it has a picture of Morse with many others and mentions that C.H. Yadon attended Morse's school in Oakland.

[Reader]

Forgot to add it gives the year born as 1879 & the death as 1963.

[Steve Epley]

From what I understand much of California was in the PCI camp until the influx from Ok, Tx, Ark, then those preachers which were associated with the Apostolic College at Tulsa preached the new birth and strong holiness preaching reshaped California.

[Carl]

Frank Bartleman mentions Harry Morse in his book about Azusa.

[AR Pastor]

I read somewhere that Harry Morse got caught up in the latter rain movement.

[Carl]

He did observe the Sabbath according to Bartleman.

[AR Pastor]

He did observe the Sabbath according to Bartleman.

I read that as well.

[Reader]

Where can I find more info about him ?

Pictures ??

Thanks !!

Did you get the info you were wanting? Or do you still need more?

[Reader]

http://oof.upci.org/%5Cinductees%5Chscism.asp Harry Ellis Scism was named after him.

[Reader]

unsure if this will help https://ifphc.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=research.showArchiveDetails&ArchiveGUID=7a956ef5-611f-45ef-85c5-98d5010362cf&SearchCriteria=&ResourceTypes=Books,Photographs,Audio/Visual,Record%20Group,Artifacts&search_referrer=search.moreArchivesBySubject&FullTextIndex_SearchType=all&SortedBy=Title&search_ArchiveID=&Search_Creator=&search_Title=&search_Type=&search_Publisher=&search_Coverage=&search_Subject=Urshan,%20Nathaniel%20A.&search_Donor=&search_Identifier=&search_Contributor=&search_Language=&search_CreatedBy=&search_ModifiedBy=&referrer=search.moreArchivesBySubject&&StartRow=1&MaxRows=25

[Reader]

Mentioned on page 34 http://issuu.com/pentecostalherald/docs/mayherald_13_for_web

[Reader]

brief mention http://www.stanleyscism.com/history.htm

[Reader]

another brief mention http://arthodges3.com/author/ahodges3/

[Reader]

better link- pg. 2 is an old article he wrote http://www.1stapostolic.org/PDF/PentecostalHerald194702.pdf

[Reader]

Bernard writes this-

Harry F. B. Morse, a Oneness Pentecostal pioneer, the founder of an influential missionary training institute in Oakland, California, a foreign missions director for the PCI, and a UPCI minister. He believed in keeping Saturday as the Sabbath. Many influential pastors and missionaries, such as David Gray and Ellis Scism, were trained under him.

http://www.epubbud.com/read.php?g=6L3ZGNLE&p=1&two=1

[Scott Pitta]

Hopefully, I can gather enough for a boigraphical article about him. He had a article or 2 published in the Pentecostal Herald. I want to listen to the Urshan tape, somehow.

There might be a few still alive who can add some flavor to the article.

I still have some work to do.

I wonder what influences he had via C J Haney, on Christian Life College ??

[Raven]

Scott: Shirley Garner [ Haney ] Daryl Rash and Jack Renison may have more information about Harry Morse. I can get you their addresses if you need them.

[Steve Epley]

Very interesting. In reading his article it seems be believed the new birth message. That is refreshing to hear.

[Scott Pitta]

Those addresses would be helpful. Thanks !!

Reverend Rash was one of my teachers in college. He has had a profound positive impact on my life.

[Scott Pitta]

To my excellent Theophilus,

Greetings in Juesu' name. Pardon my familiarity, but it sounds so Scriptural and nice. You are the first man I have ever heard of bearing that name. Well, I assure you that I am glad to hear from you on the present truth you mentioned. Yes, your two letters reached me OK. I have been here long enough ( something nearly 1 and a half years) that I am quite well known here. I am somewhat amused to know of none there knowing my present address. I fear it is because of knowing my present stand, and evidently not caring to oblige any one. There is a reproach attached to this as in all advanced truths. Yes, God definitely dealt with me on this Sabbath subject about a year ago, and I was some months getting the full consent of my mind that it was God's eternal truth, and so about April, of 1916, I publicly took my stand for it and placed it among the cardinal truths of apostolic truths and have ever since have ever boldly stood for it in wisdom and love.

It made quite a stir at first, being such a new adventure in Pentecostal circles on the coast; but God has given me wisdom in the few previous months of my considering of of the subject to lay a foundation as to the place of the commandments in the New Testament: and when I got the Sabbath settled in my own mind it was not difficult to show the saints who have followed me in Bible teaching how that the Sabbath was one of those commandments; and to my surprise when I took my stand the larger majority of my assembly either came on with me or stood neutral and friendly with me in it; and then they gradually fell in with me, and with them came also quite a few of our ministers. So now we have a new order of Pentecostal mission work. I am very charitable toward those who as yet don't see it. By taking this wise attitude we are holding them, and and they are gradually getting the truth. We are quite a good sized assembly here, running on wide-awake mission lines. Souls are coming through to God. Sunday night two received the Holy Ghost baptism. Three were baptized in water in Jesus' name. We have nice open-air meetings every night, and when the opposers to legalism come around they have to admit that our stand for the whole law of God has not taken away either our old-time fevor and anointing in the Spirit; and the Spirit of the Lord is giving liberty. Your letter sounds solid on the subject. Your way of expressing yourself on the subject sounds natural.

I will truly enjoy being kept in touch with the Sabbath truth through you and your ministry. I will give you the address of a few more centers where the Sabbath truth is getting a hold...

I like your style of literature. I see your line is more on the lines I am led out on.

Christian love to you in Jesus' name,

Pastor Harry Morse

The Sabbath Recorder
Jan. 8, 1917

[TJJJ]

Wow. That letter is almost a hundred years old now. Amazing when you think about it.

So many walked this walk and have passed on.

[Scott Pitta]

4
Originally from Wisconsin, Harry Morse (1879-1963) worked in Stockton
before 1900, but returned prior to 1910 as a pastor, see, Wallace, Profiles, vol. 2, 283;
Haney, Man of the Hills, 32. Morse was a key leader in the expansion of the movement
in the region, see, “Our Trip Down the Coast,” Meat in Due Season, June 1915, vol. 1,
no. 6, 2. Harry and Maude Morse were part of the pre-merger, pre-Oneness PAW, see,
1917 PAW Minute Book, 15, and already on the Ninth St. location where they started the
popular Missionary Training School. Several leaders, such as Oscar Vouga, originated
from Morse’s work, see, Wallace, Profiles, 244-246.

GT Haywood, by French page 328 footnote

[Scott Pitta]

Harry Morse " was the Pastor that prayed for Clyde (Haney) when he came to the Lord."

D. Rash email 6/16/14

[Scott Pitta]

Oakland Tribune Dec. 15, 1928

Big Downtown Mission Grows

Pastor Harry Morse, who has carried on mission work in Oakland for the past 13 years, announced the Big Downtown Mission continues to operate at 9th and Broadway, with meetings every night of the week except Monday. It continues to hold crowds nightly with a new array of evangelistic workers from month to month.

Pastor Morse is assisted by a staff of young men and women who are receiving training for mission work under his personal work. There is no membership in this work, and is carried on with a spirit of good will toward all.

[Scott Pitta]

Oakland Tribune Aug. 4, 1928

Meetings are run on strictly evangelistic lines. This mission work has been am aggressive work of its kind in the city for many years. It is one of the oldest Pentecostal assemblies around the bay region. Harry Morse has been pastor of this work for over 18 years.

[Scott Pitta]

http://opa.htm

Decemer 21, 1929 Oakland Tribune

[Scott Pitta]

December 21, 1929
Oakland Tribune

This is one of the oldest Pentecostal Missions here in Oakland. Mr. Morse has spent nearly 15 years in this present pastorate. The work has continuously grown until today it is one of the largest missions here with its fame known all over the country. The meetings are full of life and blessing, yet sane and attractive to good thinking people.

[Scott Pitta]

Oakland Tribute April 11, 1936

...Dr. W. F. Haney of Modesto will speak and special services will be held in the evening.

Pastor Harry Morse has been in charge of the work for over 20 years. This mission work has a training department where young men and women are trained for home and foreign missions. These young people are a big asset in carrying on the work at 9th and Broadway.

[Steve Epley]

Thanks I am enjoying this. I love Pentecostal history.

[Scott Pitta]

Partial list of guest speakers who preached who preached at the Big Downtown Mission. This is not a complete list of names

R Bakke J Matthews
B Bums M Monroe
Bancroft J Opperman
T Bell R Pitts
P Bower G Raust
D Brice J Reznicsek
L Richardson
C Cagel M Tatman
Coates E Tharp
B Cook O Thornton
W Crumpacker C Vincent

E Driver F Walker
F Ewart J Webster
H Faster D Wilson
H Hanson P Winter
D Hilde C Young
S Jenson
J Lake
McKinly
T Martin

[Praxeas]

Scott you gonna post some pics of those trout you been catching?:happydance

[Scott Pitta]

Pentecostal Training Institute students in 1930

Ida Thompson
Ena Wagner
Florence Seagraves
Marjorie Morgan
Marie Jensen
Samuel Jensen
Charles Yadon
R. Yadon
L Orton
E Orton


Pentecostal Training Institute students in 1940

Ida Thompson
Herschel Redman
Mary Durst
Victory Walker
Helen Swier
N McFarland
B McFarland
E Holly
R Berntsen
Pearl Tuttle

[Scott Pitta]

Oakland Tribute October 25, 1963

The Rev. Harry I Morse, founder and pastor for 55 years of the Revival Center here, has died at the age of 84.

His death came Wednesday afternoon after a brief illness.

The Rev. Mr. Morse established the "Big Downtown Mission" at 9th and Broadway in 1915. He opened the independent Pentecostal assembly like a mission with Gospel services, street meetings and jail services.

During the depression, the church feed and clothed many persons in need.

The Rev. Mr Morse also conducted a Bible training school at his home, 3370 62nd Ave., for more than 25 years. There are numerous Pentecostal pastors, missionaries and evangelists over the world who received their training from him.

The Revival Center was demolished to make room for a parking lot, and the church was moved in 1957 to its present site at the old Pix Theater at 647 East 12th St.

The Rev. Mr. Morse was born in Michigan. He moved to Stockton in 1896 and served as a minister for the Volunteers of America there. After brief stays in Canada and Oregon, he returned to California and became an evangelist in 1906.

He is survived by his wife, Maude, whom he wed in 1900, and a sister, Linnie Warda of Illinois.

The Rev. Mr. Morse held many posts in area and state Pentecostal organizations and was a member of the International Ministers Association, Inc.

[Scott Pitta]

May 28, 1957
Oakland Tribune

To make a parking lot,a church was bought and demolished.

To provide a home for the congregation,a theater was purchased and remodeled.

The Revival Center at 9th and Broadway is now a parking lot for Simon Hardware. However the old Pix Theater at 637 E. 13th St., is the new home of the Revival Center after a $17,000 remodeling operation.

The Rev. Harry Morse, 78, has served as pastor of the congregation for 42 years. The congregation of more than 100, is an independent Pentecostal assembly.

The switch in location will result an a change in program emphasis according to the Rev. Mr. Morse.

Until now members of the congregation conducted the operation of the church like a mission with Gospel services, street meetings and jail services.

The new program includes a Youth nite every Wednesday at 7:30 pm. and evangelistic services Tuesday and Thursday at 7:30 pm.and a home visitation evangelism program of Friday evenings plus the regular Sunday services.

The Rev. Frank Walker serves as assistant pastor and directs the youth program and calling effort.

According to the Rev. Mr. Morse, his group has no special doctrine to champion except that all men belong to one church- the church of Jesus Christ. He does not believe in criticizing other denominations because each group is making its contribution to the ultimate goal- one God, one Savior, one Church.

[Steve Epley]

May 28, 1957
Oakland Tribune

To make a parking lot,a church was bought and demolished.

To provide a home for the congregation,a theater was purchased and remodeled.

The Revival Center at 9th and Broadway is now a parking lot for Simon Hardware. However the old Pix Theater at 637 E. 13th St., is the new home of the Revival Center after a $17,000 remodeling operation.

The Rev. Harry Morse, 78, has served as pastor of the congregation for 42 years. The congregation of more than 100, is an independent Pentecostal assembly.

The switch in location will result an a change in program emphasis according to the Rev. Mr. Morse.

Until now members of the congregation conducted the operation of the church like a mission with Gospel services, street meetings and jail services.

The new program includes a Youth nite every Wednesday at 7:30 pm. and evangelistic services Tuesday and Thursday at 7:30 pm.and a home visitation evangelism program of Friday evenings plus the regular Sunday services.

The Rev. Frank Walker serves as assistant pastor and directs the youth program and calling effort.

According to the Rev. Mr. Morse, his group has no special doctrine to champion except that all men belong to one church- the church of Jesus Christ. He does not believe in criticizing other denominations because each group is making its contribution to the ultimate goal- one God, one Savior, one Church.

Looks like a shift in doctrine? For a season Ewart preached Universalism I wonder if Morse was also involved in that?

[Disciple4life]

Looks like a shift in doctrine? For a season Ewart preached Universalism I wonder if Morse was also involved in that?

Correct me if I am wrong,

I thought I read that Ewart believed or hoped everybody would eventually be forgiven and accepted into the Kingdom of God. But he wasn't 100% sure so he didn't preach it openly.

Christian Universalist are very open about telling everybody that everyone will definitely come into the Kingdom.

Not trying to split hairs, just wondering about Ewart's theology. Did he later reject Universalism beliefs?

[Scott Pitta]

Harry I Morse timeline

1878 born in Michigan

1896 moved to Stockton serves as minister to Volunteers of America

1900 single and living in San Francisco

1900 married Maude Morse

1906 having traveled to Oregon and Canada Morse returns to California

1910 in Stockton as a "Pentecostal Missionary"
1913 attended the Arroyo Seco camp meeting with Ewart and Haywood
1915 by the time of the General Conference of the AG, Morse had already been baptized in Jesus name
1915 begins the "Big Downtown Mission" in Alameda

1930 census shows student boarders of the "Pentecostal Training Institute"

1940 census shows student borders of the PTI

1947 Morse preaches funeral of Frank Ewart in Los Angeles
1950 leaves the UPC
1957 moves church to old Pix theater and

1961 Morse is the "pastor emeritus"

1963 Morse passes away

[Scott Pitta]

Who knew Harry Morse that is still living today ? What came of his old church ? Why no children ? Who has his old study notes ? How are we to determine what he believed ? Did it change over time ? The paper said the training institute was in operation for 25 years. Which 25 years ?

[Steve Epley]

Correct me if I am wrong,

I thought I read that Ewart believed or hoped everybody would eventually be forgiven and accepted into the Kingdom of God. But he wasn't 100% sure so he didn't preach it openly.

Christian Universalist are very open about telling everybody that everyone will definitely come into the Kingdom.

Not trying to split hairs, just wondering about Ewart's theology. Did he later reject Universalism beliefs?

Yes he taught it openly destroyed his work and became more less exiled but later denounced the teaching.

[Scott Pitta]

Do we have documentation of what he believed ?

How do we know of his relationship with other churches ?

How do I track his changes in theology ?

[Scott Pitta]

1919 member of PAW

1926 member of Pentecostal Missionary Alliance

1938 resigns as foreign missions director of Pentecostal church Inc

1945 UPC began. Morse has article in the Pentecostal Herald in 1945 and in 1947

[Scott Pitta]

Oakland Tribune Sept 28, 1927

Reports that a bible college will be opened here by followers of Amee McPherson within the next few months were verified today by the Rev. W H Pope, pastor of the McPherson church here. Arrangements for dormitory accommodations have been made and ground for the college building will be next spring, it is said. Besides bible instruction teacher training and evangelistic work courses in music and public speaking are reported to be included in the plans.

The Rev. John Goeben, Aimee's local representative left yesterday for Los Angeles to complete plans for a visit here by Mrs. McPherson.

[Scott Pitta]

Oakland Tribune June 6 1926

Arvilla Atkins, Edith W Barber, Alice E Farr, Aureola L Hammond, Ruth A Jessup, and Sara Miles will be graduating tomorrow night from the Christian Training Association Teachers College in the Friends church, Berkeley. Rev. I Irvin Overholtzer will preside. Rev. C A Mott and Rev. W B Gillespie will offer the prayers.

A workers conference will be held Tuesday and Wednesday in the church by staff workers from the various cities where the association is conducting its weekly Bible classes.

[Scott Pitta]

Oakland Tribune March 24, 1924

Dr. E W Kenyon of Boston, Bible teacher and lecturer, is looking about the Eastbay district for an adequate location for his contemplated Bible college. According to Dr. Kenyon's announcement he plans a college for the Pacific coast to carry on the work already under way in the Boston Bible college he founded. Recently Dr. Kenyon has been lecturing at Grace tabernacle.

[Scott Pitta]

Oakland Tribune December 19, 1936

There will be a Christmas program next Wednesday at 8 p.m. at the Big Downtown Mission, at 9th and Broadway, according to the pastor, Harry Morse, who with Mrs. Morse has been in charge of the mission for the last 20 years.

Says the pastor: Young workers are still being trained for both the home and foreign fields. These young workers are a big asset in the regular nightly meetings. Meetings are held every night except Monday night.

[Scott Pitta]

Oakland Tribune December 28, 1929

Beginning tonight, Evangelist William Popo will open a revival campaign at the big Downtown Mission, 9th and Broadway. He will be assisted by the Clark Singers, who have made an excellent impression wherever heard.

Evangelist Popo comes recently from Pomona, where he was pastor of the Four Square Gospel tabernacle.

His first appearance in Oakland was in the late revival campaign at the East Oakland wooden tabernacle.

[Scott Pitta]

Oakland Tribune Oct. 11, 1930

B D Urshan

Persian Evangelist

Educated in England, with a noted ministry in the United States and Canada

Subjects: How long before the end ?
The cross of Christ vs. Christian Science and Spiritism
The Armenean massacres

[Scott Pitta]

Oakland Tribune May 22, 1943

A O Moore

National Missionary Secretary for the Pentecostal church, Inc. will speak. He is also a world traveler for missions.

[Steve Epley]

Do we have documentation of what he believed ?

How do we know of his relationship with other churches ?

How do I track his changes in theology ?

My info came from the late Carl Ballestero and the Elder Fisher who pastored his work in LA. Both knew him.

[Scott Pitta]

Oakland Tribune Oct. 5, 1929

New revival begins Thursday
Ewart and Tatman will be featured at a special revival.

Ewart has been pastor for years of the Belvedere Pentecostal Tabernacle. Tatman has been in evangelical and pastoral work around the bay region for a number of years.

They will be assisted by a staff of ministers and mission workers.

[Scott Pitta]

Oakland Tribune Oct 15, 1929

John G Lake, the famous evangelist and healer

Today and Sunday

Aimee McPherson's Sunshine Melody Maker's Band

600 free seats await you. Bring your instruments and join for a good time. Come and help sing.

[Scott Pitta]

Oakland Tribune Oct 20, 1917

386 9th St. nr. Franklin Rev. Harry Morse, pastor.

services nightly, 8 pm. except Monday and Saturday

Sat. 2 pm. Bible reading 3 pm worship

Sunday, same hours, also 8 pm service

[Scott Pitta]

Harry Morse shared his pulpit with women preachers and women evangelists. On November 21, 1925, he announced that a Mrs. Cecil D Sitton, lady evangelist from Texas would be preaching.

Besides the revival, a "Thursday Women Only" day would be open for women over the age of 14 years old. Subjects covered would include: love, marriage and rearing of children. Also facts about traps set for our boys and girls.

It reminds me of women's day at Landmark. Is there a connection ? Was Cecil Sitton the first "radiant" woman ?

Harry Morse advertised in the Oakland Tribune starting in October of 1917. He also had a radio show in the 1940's. He believed in mass media.

In the 1917 church page of the paper, Morse had the only Pentecostal church. That would change over the years.

I do not know when students were at the Training School. But I can document students there in 1930 and 1930. But not in 1920. His obit states the school was open for about 25 years. 1925-1950 ???

[Scott Pitta]

The Man of the Hills by Olive Haney page 42 and 43

"They heard of the Holy Ghost outpouring at Azuza Street, in Los Angeles. Harry Morse, a young Penial minister, was sent to investigate the phenomenon. Because he endorsed this new experience he was asked to resign from Penial. He then started a small mission of his own on the corner of Grant and Main Street in downtown Stockton. The Haneys threw their lot in with him. Sophie Haney and Harry Morse both received the Holy ghost on Sophie's twenty ninth birthday. March 14, 1908. Sophie, Levi, and their three children played instruments and sang....

A new doctrine was being promoted over the Pentecostal movement and many were the debates and discussions over the "issue"...This little group also spent much time in prayer and Bible studies on these subjects. It culminated in a division with Harry Morse and a few others, Sophie and Levi amoung them, taking a stand for baptism in the Name of Jesusand the one God message.

When Harry Morse left to open a mission on 9th Street in Oakland, California,Levi took over in Stockton for a while."

[Scott Pitta]

According to Olive Haney, it was against school policy to accept pregnant married students. But exceptions were made for her, seeing arrangements had already been made.

A often sung song by the students was:

Must I be carried to the skies on flowery beds of ease, while others fought to win the prize or sailed through bloody seas. No, I must fight if I would reign, increase my courage Lord. I'll bear the tooil, endure the pain supported by Thy Word.

School was Monday through Friday, until noon. Harry Morse taught most of the classes. Ruby Martin taught the rest.

Subjects covered were: the parables, the new birth, the One God, divorce and remarriage, fruit bearing, tabernacle and Book of Revelation.

Non theological studies were also covered: altar calls, leading the songs, conducting fellowship meetings, conservation of time and others.

Olive Haney considered his lessons to be of great value.

Harry Morse favored the Sabbath (page 133). But not everyone in his church did. Services were held on both Saturday and Sunday.

Harry Morse was a "born diplomat. But more that that, he was a man of God. As such, Clyde respected and honored him, though he did not always agree with him. I can see Brother Morse yet (his chair had a little spring to it) as he would sit in church with his eyes shut, bouncing up and down a little, with his mind on the Lord. It ws said of him that he could see more with his eyes closed than most people could see with their eyes open." page 133-134


Students did not work. They lived by faith for their finances. Harry Morse was their example in this facet of life.

[Scott Pitta]

What motivated Harry Morse to start the Pentecostal Training School?

Morse did not attend college anywhere. So why was he not "anti intellectual" like so many Pentecostals were ?

There were many colleges in California and in the bay area where he pastored.

Besides the new Catholic seminary, there was the San Franscisco Bible College (1914). Amiee McPherson considered starting a college in Oakland in 1930. Other colleges mentioned in the Oakland Tribune were the Calif. Bible College (1940), Southern Cali. Bible College (1940), Pacific Bible College (1949), Western Baptist Bible College (1949) and Columbia Bible College (1941).

Other local churches in Oakland had in house night school for training of ministers. Additionally, Vacation Bible Schools were more in depth and were more common in the bay area.

Did this academic culture motivate Morse to provide ministerial training in his own church ? Or did other factors motivate him ? Who was Ruby Martin ? Why was Morse so open to women in ministry as to allow her, and not some other minister, to teach the students ?

[Scott Pitta]

When Harry Morse arrived in Oakland in 1916, there were no Pentecostal churches of any kind.

By collecting data from the church page of the Oakland Tribune, I have complied this incomplete picture:

1916 Pentecostal Mission Harry Morse pastor

1923 Pentecostal Assembly 1943, AOG

1924 Pentecostal Glad Tidings Revival Assembly

1928 Full Gospel Oakland Temple Church 1943, Downtown Evangelistic Center

1929 First Pentecostal Church(1929-1946)

1930 Elim Temple formerly the "Glory Barn"

1935 AOG Berkeley

1936 Pentecostal Church of God

1940 Bethel Tabernacle

1943 Oakland Temple church AOG

1950 United Pentecostal Church

1950 Bethel Assembly

1950 The Gospel Chapel


The names are colorful. "Glory Barn" is my favorite !! Churches also changed names and I had to track them by their addresses.

Morse changed the name of his church several times: Pentecostal Mission (1916), Big Downtown Mission, Pentecostal Assembly (1940), Revival Center (1957), Pentecostal Assembly, Inc. (1961).

[Steve Epley]

What motivated Harry Morse to start the Pentecostal Training School?

Morse did not attend college anywhere. So why was he not "anti intellectual" like so many Pentecostals were ?

There were many colleges in California and in the bay area where he pastored.

Besides the new Catholic seminary, there was the San Franscisco Bible College (1914). Amiee McPherson considered starting a college in Oakland in 1930. Other colleges mentioned in the Oakland Tribune were the Calif. Bible College (1940), Southern Cali. Bible College (1940), Pacific Bible College (1949), Western Baptist Bible College (1949) and Columbia Bible College (1941).

Other local churches in Oakland had in house night school for training of ministers. Additionally, Vacation Bible Schools were more in depth and were more common in the bay area.

Did this academic culture motivate Morse to provide ministerial training in his own church ? Or did other factors motivate him ? Who was Ruby Martin ? Why was Morse so open to women in ministry as to allow her, and not some other minister, to teach the students ?
Both Parham and Seymour's wives were preachers. The "holiness" movement from which both came out of had many women preachers.

[Scott Pitta]

Did Harry Morse teach the "social purity" doctrine ? Is that why he and Maude had no children ? What else did he believe ? What did he not believe ?

Did he never change his beliefs ? People have a habit of changing their mind about doctrine. How do I track what he believed and how long did he believe it ? Did he always follow the social purity doctrine ?

Morse has a missions report in the 1946 edition of the Pentecostal Herald. Why did he not stay in the UPC ??

He was in the PAW, then the Pentecostal Missionary Alliance. That group became the PCI. He was the foreign missions director in 1938 (PCI) Then he was in the UPC at the merger. What was he in after that ? His obit states he was a member of the International Ministers Association. What is that ?

Morse was at Azuza Street, Arroyo Seco and was a lifelong Pentecostal. Why is there no biography of him anywhere ?

What am I missing ?

[Steve Epley]

If he joined the IMA then he was influenced by the "latter rain movement." Vanhoose, Kidson, Coots, Moore helped form the IMA all were influenced by the latter rain movement whose emphasis was on spiritual gifts and healing and minimized the importance of doctrine. They all baptized in Jesus name. All had been part of the PCI before the merger. Also Raymond Houstra the former pastor of Calvary Tabernacle in Indianapolis.

[Steve Epley]

Did Harry Morse teach the "social purity" doctrine ? Is that why he and Maude had no children ? What else did he believe ? What did he not believe ?

Did he never change his beliefs ? People have a habit of changing their mind about doctrine. How do I track what he believed and how long did he believe it ? Did he always follow the social purity doctrine ?

Morse has a missions report in the 1946 edition of the Pentecostal Herald. Why did he not stay in the UPC ??

He was in the PAW, then the Pentecostal Missionary Alliance. That group became the PCI. He was the foreign missions director in 1938 (PCI) Then he was in the UPC at the merger. What was he in after that ? His obit states he was a member of the International Ministers Association. What is that ?

Morse was at Azuza Street, Arroyo Seco and was a lifelong Pentecostal. Why is there no biography of him anywhere ?

What am I missing ?
Several taught social or virgin purity during those times. William Sowders of the school of prophets group taught that in order to reach perfection.

[Scott Pitta]

Early in his church plant in Oakland, Morse became friends with a former minister of the Seventh Day Adventist Church. Could Morse's belief in the Sabbath have grown out of that relationship ?

Aimee McPherson had a large crusade in Oakland 6 years after Morse moved to Oakland. Morse used McPherson's songbook in his church. Her revelation of the fourfold came during the Oakland crusade, an aspect that Morse promoted in the future.

How do I determine the theological influences that others had on him ? It is easy to make comparisons, but how do I verify my conclusions ?

A persons theological views change over time. How do I track what a person believed ?? How do I document those changes ?

[navygoat1998]

Early in his church plant in Oakland, Morse became friends with a former minister of the Seventh Day Adventist Church. Could Morse's belief in the Sabbath have grown out of that relationship ?

Aimee McPherson had a large crusade in Oakland 6 years after Morse moved to Oakland. Morse used McPherson's songbook in his church. Her revelation of the fourfold came during the Oakland crusade, an aspect that Morse promoted in the future.

How do I determine the theological influences that others had on him ? It is easy to make comparisons, but how do I verify my conclusions ?

A persons theological views change over time. How do I track what a person believed ?? How do I document those changes ?

Thank you Scott for doing all this digging, I love Pentecostal history. :thumbsup

[Scott Pitta]

There are lots of dead ends. But a few leads are promising. I might, might mind you, get my hands on a notebook from a student who trained under Harry Morse.

I biography of Harry Morse was published in 1946. I'm not sure what is in it or how brief it is.

I may end up travelling to Oakland before this is over.

Back to work in the morning. Harry Morse will have to wait !!

[Steve Epley]

Thanks so much for these postings.

[navygoat1998]

Thanks so much for these postings.

I could not agree more! :thumbsup

[Reader]

The history is interesting.

How do I determine the theological influences that others had on him ? It is easy to make comparisons, but how do I verify my conclusions ?

A persons theological views change over time. How do I track what a person believed ?? How do I document those changes ?

This is difficult since he is deceased. If there are relatives still alive that knew of this, that would be a good source.

Other ways would be to find any writings, recorded sermons (that may be hard as he passed in 1963) & eye witnesses. My guess is there may not be much around.

You may be able to find info by contacting the historical department of the UPC. Also, believe it or not, the AOG collects UPC related documents. Check their website and see. They will make copies for a fee. You can also visit their historical center and see in person anything they have.

[Reader]

https://ifphc.org/index.cfm? That is the AOG site.

Also try http://www.apostolicarchives.com/page/page/5834251.htm & http://sps-usa.org/

Search here for anymore articles by him- http://www.1stapostolic.org/oldpublications.html Lots of old publications there.

He was not listed in the 1952 UPC Directory.

[Steve Epley]

I have contacted a friend in Oregon his grandfather pastored Ewart's church in LA asking if he knew any history from his grandfather?

[Reader]

Sometimes you just have to piece together what information you are able to gather. First hand sources are always the best but as time goes on and people pass, that becomes harder and harder.

Just consider between when Thomas Fudge interviewed people for his first book and then his second that came this year - he states at least 53 people have died that he interviewed, and the interviews started in 1999.

[Scott Pitta]

Why was Morse part of the merger but not in the 1952 directory ? Trying to get into his head is not easy !!

He had speakers from a variety of denominations preach at his church. He was influenced by the Aimee McPherson crusade she had in Oakland. He used her songbook in his church. So why did he not join the Four Square Church ? Was it due to his experience at Arroyo Seco Camp meeting ? There were AOG churches in Oakland, but he did not join them, either.

[Steve Epley]

My friend whose grandfather pastored Ewart's church in LA said according to what he remembered Morse didn't much interaction with Oneness(UPC) folks in his later years with the exception of the Northwest guys?(he named the Yadons) Said the California brethren were distanced because of many of his teachings. However he did say Morse was strong on divine healing and opposed to medicine and doctors.
Sorry I tried.

[Scott Pitta]

Thanks for the data !!

Fuller Seminary is gong to send me what they have.

[returnman]

From what I understand much of California was in the PCI camp until the influx from Ok, Tx, Ark, then those preachers which were associated with the Apostolic College at Tulsa preached the new birth and strong holiness preaching reshaped California.

The likes of I.H. Terry, Davis, etc.

[Steve Epley]

The likes of I.H. Terry, Davis, etc.

Yep.

[Scott Pitta]

Today I talked to a lady who was born at the mission in Oakland. I also ordered a oral presentation made a bout the mission by Paul Price.

If all goes well, I will have notes from 2 different students. But it is all talk until they are in my hands.

I also contacted a different child whose parents attended the school ran by Harry Morse.

I am learning about the relationship between the Penial mission and the Nazarine church and Pentecostalism. their histories are bound together, at least in the beginning.

[Carl]

Why was Morse part of the merger but not in the 1952 directory ? Trying to get into his head is not easy !!

He had speakers from a variety of denominations preach at his church. He was influenced by the Aimee McPherson crusade she had in Oakland. He used her songbook in his church. So why did he not join the Four Square Church ? Was it due to his experience at Arroyo Seco Camp meeting ? There were AOG churches in Oakland, but he did not join them, either.

Were Aimee McPherson and Harry Morse related? I think her birth name was Morse.

[Scott Pitta]

I'm listening to a cd from Urshan and one from Price about Harry Morse and the history of the Western district. It has been a long time since I heard their voice.

Still gathering data.

[Scott Pitta]

The AOG archive contacted me today. They will offer support as I need it. They had 8 articles penned by Morse. They gave me the name of another Pentecostal archive.

One of the children Harry's Bible School gave me a lead about a biography that had 2 chapters about the school. I ordered that today.

Progress is measured in inches. I suppose the book will be finished in a year.

The AOG archivist really thinks it is important that I produce a book. It is becoming more apparent that biographies are a group effort.

Fishing stories are much easier to write !!

[Steve Epley]

The AOG archive contacted me today. They will offer support as I need it. They had 8 articles penned by Morse. They gave me the name of another Pentecostal archive.

One of the children Harry's Bible School gave me a lead about a biography that had 2 chapters about the school. I ordered that today.

Progress is measured in inches. I suppose the book will be finished in a year.

The AOG archivist really thinks it is important that I produce a book. It is becoming more apparent that biographies are a group effort.

Fishing stories are much easier to write !!
Thank you for your patient labor I love this history.

[crakjak]

Correct me if I am wrong,

I thought I read that Ewart believed or hoped everybody would eventually be forgiven and accepted into the Kingdom of God. But he wasn't 100% sure so he didn't preach it openly.

Christian Universalist are very open about telling everybody that everyone will definitely come into the Kingdom.

Not trying to split hairs, just wondering about Ewart's theology. Did he later reject Universalism beliefs?

There is both in Universalism, the hopeful and the convinced! I am of the convinced variety. Sounds like Ewart was forced by peer pressure to be "light on the message"!! LOL

[Abiding Now]

Several taught social or virgin purity during those times. William Sowders of the school of prophets group taught that in order to reach perfection.

Well Well, now I know why I'm not perfect.:happydance

[Scott Pitta]

Pentecostal archive people are a tight knit group, and are helpful at providing leads. Some leads are dead ends.

Harry Morse did pastor a mission on San Pedro Street, not in San Pedro.

He was born in Wisconsin not Michigan.

Things are still a bit fuzzy, but Frank Bartleman had strong Stockton and Oakland connections prior to the Azuza revival and after it.

But Bartleman did not preach at the Big Downtown Mission like Morse's other Azuza friends did.

Morse and Bartleman were both born in the midwest.

They both worked at the Peniel Missions prior to Azuza.

They were both at the Peniel Mission in Stockton prior to Azuza.

They were both at Azuza.

They both pastored near the Azuza/Seymour church after the Azuza revival.

They were both Spirit filled and baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

Neither of them (or Frank Ewart) had strong denominational ties.

Still slowly solving the mystery...who was Harry Morse ??

[ReformedDave]

He was my father's pastor for several years- as was Frank Ewart. Morse performed the wedding of my parents and my dad assisted him.

[Steve Epley]

He was my father's pastor for several years- as was Frank Ewart. Morse performed the wedding of my parents and my dad assisted him.

Tell us some history. This is interesting.

[Scott Pitta]

Yes. We really need some Morse stories. Not to mention some pictures.

This morning I documented that Frank Bartleman preached a revival at the Big Downtown Mission on 4 September 1927. that makes 3 Azuza Mission friends who ministered at the Oakland Mission.

The Azuza mission also sent a evangelistic team to Oakland in 1907 (?). This is 7 years prior to Harry Morse coming there.

The Methodist church and the Church of the Nazarene held "Pentecostal" camp meetings in Oakland in 1904.

What did "Pentecostal" mean prior to the Azuza Mission revival of 1906 ?

I really need clear pictures of Harry Morse. I have yet to find class notebooks from prior students.

[Steve Epley]

Yes. We really need some Morse stories. Not to mention some pictures.

This morning I documented that Frank Bartleman preached a revival at the Big Downtown Mission on 4 September 1927. that makes 3 Azuza Mission friends who ministered at the Oakland Mission.

The Azuza mission also sent a evangelistic team to Oakland in 1907 (?). This is 7 years prior to Harry Morse coming there.

The Methodist church and the Church of the Nazarene held "Pentecostal" camp meetings in Oakland in 1904.

What did "Pentecostal" mean prior to the Azuza Mission revival of 1906 ?

I really need clear pictures of Harry Morse. I have yet to find class notebooks from prior students.
Holiness groups believed in entire sanctification as the second definite work of grace an experience post salvation where the sin nature was eradicated.

[ReformedDave]

Everything that I have is purely second-handed. My dad said that Morse had a very large mission, for that time, and had an interesting collection of beliefs. He had both sabbath and Lord's day keepers so had church Tuesday thru Sunday. According to my father Morse was typical of many of the PCI men at that time as to the new birth (one-stepper) but I believe he held to a modalistic view of God and baptized in "Jesus name'.

Interesting side note: those who were workers on his staff could not hold a job outside the church and had to 'trust God'.

My dad loved the man but indicated that he was a bit quirky. C.H. Yadon and Clyde Haney also spent time with him.

My dad also was pastored by Frank Ewart, Glenn Cook and pastored several Azusa people including George Studd.

[Steve Epley]

Everything that I have is purely second-handed. My dad said that Morse had a very large mission, for that time, and had an interesting collection of beliefs. He had both sabbath and Lord's day keepers so had church Tuesday thru Sunday. According to my father Morse was typical of many of the PCI men at that time as to the new birth (one-stepper) but I believe he held to a modalistic view of God and baptized in "Jesus name'.

Interesting side note: those who were workers on his staff could not hold a job outside the church and had to 'trust God'.

My dad loved the man but indicated that he was a bit quirky. C.H. Yadon and Clyde Haney also spent time with him.

My dad also was pastored by Frank Ewart, Glenn Cook and pastored several Azusa people including George Studd.

Wow.

[ReformedDave]

Also, Oscar Voga spent time working with Morse.

[Scott Pitta]

Those Azuza preachers did have some quirks.

One taught it was a sin for Christians to use medicine.

Another taught the annihilation of the wicked.

Some taught the second work of sanctification, others did not.

With regard to Harry Morse, I want to write who he was and what he taught without judging the merit of his beliefs. I do not have an ax to grind. I want to let him tell his own story.

One thing is certain: they all had unique beliefs.

I want to know what Harry believed, as normal or as odd as it may or may not be.

[ReformedDave]

Wish you the best luck in finding anything. Seems that most info died with him.

[Scott Pitta]

Ellis Scism is my new best friend.

His book "Northwest Passage" has 2 chapters about the Big Downtown Mission and many pictures of Harry Morse.

Thank you Harry Scism for bringing the book to my attention.

The other Pentecostal archives are unaware of this book.

Progress !!!!

[Scott Pitta]

The church he pastored in Oakland no longer exists. The AOG church remembers nothing of him. I was hoping if I found the church, I could find some old church records.

Not yet...

[Scott Pitta]

The Azuza revival was not limited to one mission pastored by Seymour. It looks like 4 local missions shared the...revival.

One of them was pastored by Harry Morse after Frank Bartleman turned it over to him. It was one of only 2 pastorates Morse had. I am not sure he remained pastor there.

A week after the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Azuza, San Francisco had it's infamous earthquake. A few months later, Seymour and his staff were invited by WF Mantley to hold a revival in Oakland.

This is the first post Azuza revival in Oakland. It was conducted in either the People's Mission or the Household of God. I have not figured that part out yet.

In 1915 Harry Morse brought a team to Oakland to start a church. Not unlike the team that Seymour had brought there 9 years earlier. During his time at Oakland, Morse had several of his Azuza friends preach at his church.

The connections to Azuza surprised me. I'm still learning about the connection between the Peniel Missions and Pentecostalism. The holiness movement also influenced pentecostalism. Getting a grasp on all this is a bit overwhelming.

Finding original documents and pictures is evasive. But I'm still working on it.

[Reader]

Have you looked into the thesis done by Talmadge, where he covers some history? I haven't read it, so I don't know how much he may cover of Azusa St. http://etheses.bham.ac.uk/2869/7/French_11_PhD.pdf

[Steve Epley]

The Azuza revival was not limited to one mission pastored by Seymour. It looks like 4 local missions shared the...revival.

One of them was pastored by Harry Morse after Frank Bartleman turned it over to him. It was one of only 2 pastorates Morse had. I am not sure he remained pastor there.

A week after the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Azuza, San Francisco had it's infamous earthquake. A few months later, Seymour and his staff were invited by WF Mantley to hold a revival in Oakland.

This is the first post Azuza revival in Oakland. It was conducted in either the People's Mission or the Household of God. I have not figured that part out yet.

In 1915 Harry Morse brought a team to Oakland to start a church. Not unlike the team that Seymour had brought there 9 years earlier. During his time at Oakland, Morse had several of his Azuza friends preach at his church.

The connections to Azuza surprised me. I'm still learning about the connection between the Peniel Missions and Pentecostalism. The holiness movement also influenced pentecostalism. Getting a grasp on all this is a bit overwhelming.

Finding original documents and pictures is evasive. But I'm still working on it.
Have you read any of the papers put out by the Azusa mission?

[Scott Pitta]

Yes, the papers published by the Azuza mission are online, somewhere. I have read them. If Talmadge wrote the bio for GT Haywood, then yes, I have read some of it.

[Scott Pitta]

Progress on the "social purity" doctrine.

Before Christian Life Center began as Harmony Chapel. Harmony Chapel was a church split away from a church pastored by "Sister Swift".

Sister Swift taught the "social purity" doctrine. It was one of the reasons for the church split.

Sister Swift had a training school like Harry Morse did.

Did Harry Morse learn this doctrine from Sister Swift ???

[Abiding Now]

Thanks. I have really enjoyed your posts.

[Steve Epley]

Progress on the "social purity" doctrine.

Before Christian Life Center began as Harmony Chapel. Harmony Chapel was a church split away from a church pastored by "Sister Swift".

Sister Swift taught the "social purity" doctrine. It was one of the reasons for the church split.

Sister Swift had a training school like Harry Morse did.

Did Harry Morse learn this doctrine from Sister Swift ???

It was not an uncommon doctrine. William Sowders who founded the "school of prophets" taught this in order to reach perfection. When I was young their still some minor strains of that teaching around.

[Scott Pitta]

Correction. Her name was Sister Swinton.

[Steve Epley]

French's new book makes several references to Morse.

[Scott Pitta]

What's the name of the new book ?

Lydia Swinton pastored the Pentecostal Mission in Stockton from about 1926 to 1936. She never married and lived the rest of her life in Stockton. She was not part of the Peniel Mission or Harmony Chapel.

Harry Morse pastored the Pentecostal Mission prior to moving to Oakland.

[Reader]

What's the name of the new book ?

I already posted on it in the discussion. The book, Early Interracial Oneness Pentecostalism: G. T. Haywood and the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World (1901-1931), is based on his thesis.

Have you looked into the thesis done by Talmadge, where he covers some history? I haven't read it, so I don't know how much he may cover of Azusa St. http://etheses.bham.ac.uk/2869/7/French_11_PhD.pdf

[Steve Epley]

I already posted on it in the discussion. The book, Early Interracial Oneness Pentecostalism: G. T. Haywood and the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World (1901-1931), is based on his thesis.

Thanks for posting this I read it. I will order the book.

[Scott Pitta]

Some of the details are fuzzy. When things clear up, I will be able to post accurate stories. Morse pastored a mission near Azuza Street, but I'm not sure how long. Bartleman installed him. Not long afterwards, he is pastor of the Pentecostal Mission in Stockton. In 1915, he led a team to Oakland to start the Big Downtown Mission. Who was in his team ?

Seymour led his staff to Oakland for a 5 week revival. Was a church founded as a result of the revival ? There was already a Peniel Mission there. Was the Pentecostal Church of the Nazarene the church planted by Seymour ? Not sure.

[Scott Pitta]

Bartleman's book on Azuza just came in the mail. No mention of his pastorate in Sacramento or Stockton, other than to say it idd not go well. No mention of Harry Morse.

Looks like it is time to pick up the bio of William Seymour.

Martin Glaeser was the son of a missionary who lived at the Pentecostal Mission on Grant Street in Stockton while Lydia Swinton was pastor.

His dad's name is Emmanuel Glaeser. He was a member of the T. A. of D. What does that stand for??

[Scott Pitta]

I just talked to a 84 year old youngster who remembered Lydia Swinton and Levi Haney. He filled in some corners. He plans on sending me a picture of Lydia Swinton. He was pleased that someone is willing to write the old stories down for publication.

The internet provides some data. But the real spices are only found in the living memory of those who have lived long lives.

This has been a good day.

[Scott Pitta]

Oakland Tribune Feb. 7, 1909
Holy roller horror invades

Immorality, lewd and improper conduct, interference between husbands and wives, coercion of prospective young women converts and flagrant insincerity, are the charges which are made against the leaders of the "Holy Rollers," by Mrs. J. F. Holland of Stockton.

She is a pretty and intelligent young woman, who, with her four babies, is existing in destitute circumstances in a two-room shack in the rear of 904 Harrison Street, Oakland, because, she claims, her husband refuses to work and devotes his time and energies to the promulgation of the ten tenets of the faith of the Apostolic Faith, otherwise known as the "Holy Rollers."

Mrs. Holland and her four small children arrived in Oakland four days ago to join the husband and father, who deserted his home and work in Stockton four months ago to join the "Holly Roller" band at San Joseand expected to become a worker in the missions of that cult. When she arrived she found that Holland was without funds, had no work, and was unable to provide fo her and their children.

She and her little ones were housed in a little shack in the rear of the rooms formerly occupied by the Apostolic Faith Mission at 904 Harrison Streeet. For furniture there is one stove and a bed. For food she has been dependent to a great extent on the charity of neighbors. The husband, she declares, had made no effort to find work and alleges that because he as devoted his life to the work of the mission, there will be some miraculous provision made for them by the Lord.

Mrs. Holland was present at the meeting in San Jose some weeks ago when Miss Daisy Moore of Oakland fell under the influence of the leaders and teachers of the cult that her family physican beleived for a time that her mind had been permanently affected. She had been present at other such meetings and tells of numerous instances of this kind.

Because she will not become a member of the cult and because she resents the ruin of her family life through the influences of the organization, she declares she had been persecuted, reviled, kept in actual want and destitution, and, more than all, the leaders here attempted to force her to join the band by working on her mother's live through threats that if she does not "come into the fold," her babies will be stolen away from her.

"These people have cast such an influence over my husband that our family life, once very happy and peaceful and prosperous, has been utterly ruined." said Mrs. Holland."They have taught him that he need not work and provide for us and he believes that he is called to teach that faith of the cult.

"I can not believe in them. I know that they are insincere and bad people, and because they have been unable to make me join the band, they have subjected me to all manner of hardships. They have giben us but a few shreds of clothing and an occasional loaf of bread and but for the help rendered me by charitable people my four babies and I would have suffered far more creully than we have.

"I have been with these people for three months now and have watched them and they are immoral and indecent, they are breakers of homes, and makers of bums and loafers.

"Their actions in their open meetings are decidedly immodest and the things they do in their secret sesssions, which are held behind closed doors, are not fit for publication.

"I was present at the meeting in San Jose when Miss Moore of Oakland was made the subject of their influence. I have known of other such affairs and I know that their influence makes for anything but good.

"Mr. and Mrs. Sparks, who are now conducting the Oakland mission at Tenth and Webster streets, where there at that meeting and it was them that my jusband has followed up here. Thye were formerly the leaders of the sect in San Jose and I believe were chased out of there by the highly incensed people of the town."

Sparks declares that he was not responsible for the leadership of the band at San Jose and at the time of the collapse of Miss Moore, who is now slowly recovering from the effects of the mental excitement to which she was subjected at the meeting of the Holy Rollers in that city refered to. On that occasion it is declared she was subjected to an influence akin to hypotism and led to such a pitch of excitement that she fell on the floor in an insensible conditon and remained so for several hours.

"Ther leaers of the band would not allow anyone to touch her," said Mrs. Holland. "They declared that she was receiving the "Spirit" and that it was blasphemous to try to break the spell. Her own mother, who was present, was not allowed to try to revive her. They often take those who have thus received the "Spirit" into an inner room, after the public meeting is over, and keep them there for hours and tat this tiem they undulge in practices that are unspeakable."

Following her terrible experience, Miss Moore, who was a well known and highly respected Sunday school teacher and religious worker, was taken to her lodgings in San Jose and there revived sufficiently so that her mother coudl bring her back to the family home at 1284 Franklin streat, Oakland. There she was kept under the care of physicans and the police were appealed to to prevent her being sen by any of the Holy Roller cult for fear their terrible influence might again be cast over her. For a time it was learned she would never recover her mind, but, although her nervous system is badly shattered and her physical health affected, her family and friends say that she is gradually gaining her former normal self.

"I have seen a young girl, whom the speakers had tried to influence, taken, against her will. from the audience into the mysterious back room where the secret sessions are held. and the door locked to prevent the entrance of any of her friends," said Mrs. F. M. Mummert, wife of the maganger of the Boys' Retreat and who lives near to the hall formerly occupied by the Apostolic Faith sect on Harrison Street.

"During the servies both emen and women would become so enthused by the strange influence of the leaders that they would fall to the floor and roll about together howling and screaming in unintelligible jargon. Their actions were positively indecent and the jibberish they gave voice to was idiotic. They believe that this raving is the "gift of tingues" and think the people thus affected are taking in the languages of long dead apostles and religious teachers of foreign lands.

"We who live near to the hall where they held their meetings were often disturbed by their wild disturbances and have often had to appeal to the police when the nice was continued until long after midnight. The band always had a watchman out and whenever the police came near they subsided.

"On one such accasion," said Mimmert, "I climbed over the roof of the verandah and started to rap on the window of their rear room,the "inner chamber" or "holy of holies" I was bent on stopping their noise only. The window was open, and before I rapped I looked in and the things I saw in progress there quite substantiate the charges Mrs. Holland has made."

The Oakland band is now composed of about thirty people and is led by Sparks and his wife. They hold mightly meetings on the street at Ninth and Broadway and semi-weekly meetings at the rooms formerly occupied by the Peniel Mission on Tenth Street. Sparks declines to assume any responsibility for bringing Holland to Oakland and for the destitute condition of his family.

[Scott Pitta]

I just found the article. Not the sort of news any church want to see on the front page of the paper.

William Seymour came to Oakland 3 years prior to hold a revival. "Apostolic Faith Mission" was also the name of the mission on Azuza Street.

I do not know who Mr. Sparks is. I do not understand the San Jose connection.

This is 6 years prior to Harry Morse starting his mission in Oakland. In 1909 Morse is still in Stockton.

The mystery continues....

[Charnock]

Wow, that's a damning article. I'm enjoying this thread, Scott.

Oakland Tribune Feb. 7, 1909
Holy roller horror invades

Immorality, lewd and improper conduct, interference between husbands and wives, coercion of prospective young women converts and flagrant insincerity, are the charges which are made against the leaders of the "Holy Rollers," by Mrs. J. F. Holland of Stockton.

She is a pretty and intelligent young woman, who, with her four babies, is existing in destitute circumstances in a two-room shack in the rear of 904 Harrison Street, Oakland, because, she claims, her husband refuses to work and devotes his time and energies to the promulgation of the ten tenets of the faith of the Apostolic Faith, otherwise known as the "Holy Rollers."

Mrs. Holland and her four small children arrived in Oakland four days ago to join the husband and father, who deserted his home and work in Stockton four months ago to join the "Holly Roller" band at San Joseand expected to become a worker in the missions of that cult. When she arrived she found that Holland was without funds, had no work, and was unable to provide fo her and their children.

She and her little ones were housed in a little shack in the rear of the rooms formerly occupied by the Apostolic Faith Mission at 904 Harrison Streeet. For furniture there is one stove and a bed. For food she has been dependent to a great extent on the charity of neighbors. The husband, she declares, had made no effort to find work and alleges that because he as devoted his life to the work of the mission, there will be some miraculous provision made for them by the Lord.

Mrs. Holland was present at the meeting in San Jose some weeks ago when Miss Daisy Moore of Oakland fell under the influence of the leaders and teachers of the cult that her family physican beleived for a time that her mind had been permanently affected. She had been present at other such meetings and tells of numerous instances of this kind.

Because she will not become a member of the cult and because she resents the ruin of her family life through the influences of the organization, she declares she had been persecuted, reviled, kept in actual want and destitution, and, more than all, the leaders here attempted to force her to join the band by working on her mother's live through threats that if she does not "come into the fold," her babies will be stolen away from her.

"These people have cast such an influence over my husband that our family life, once very happy and peaceful and prosperous, has been utterly ruined." said Mrs. Holland."They have taught him that he need not work and provide for us and he believes that he is called to teach that faith of the cult.

"I can not believe in them. I know that they are insincere and bad people, and because they have been unable to make me join the band, they have subjected me to all manner of hardships. They have giben us but a few shreds of clothing and an occasional loaf of bread and but for the help rendered me by charitable people my four babies and I would have suffered far more creully than we have.

"I have been with these people for three months now and have watched them and they are immoral and indecent, they are breakers of homes, and makers of bums and loafers.

"Their actions in their open meetings are decidedly immodest and the things they do in their secret sesssions, which are held behind closed doors, are not fit for publication.

"I was present at the meeting in San Jose when Miss Moore of Oakland was made the subject of their influence. I have known of other such affairs and I know that their influence makes for anything but good.

"Mr. and Mrs. Sparks, who are now conducting the Oakland mission at Tenth and Webster streets, where there at that meeting and it was them that my jusband has followed up here. Thye were formerly the leaders of the sect in San Jose and I believe were chased out of there by the highly incensed people of the town."

Sparks declares that he was not responsible for the leadership of the band at San Jose and at the time of the collapse of Miss Moore, who is now slowly recovering from the effects of the mental excitement to which she was subjected at the meeting of the Holy Rollers in that city refered to. On that occasion it is declared she was subjected to an influence akin to hypotism and led to such a pitch of excitement that she fell on the floor in an insensible conditon and remained so for several hours.

"Ther leaers of the band would not allow anyone to touch her," said Mrs. Holland. "They declared that she was receiving the "Spirit" and that it was blasphemous to try to break the spell. Her own mother, who was present, was not allowed to try to revive her. They often take those who have thus received the "Spirit" into an inner room, after the public meeting is over, and keep them there for hours and tat this tiem they undulge in practices that are unspeakable."

Following her terrible experience, Miss Moore, who was a well known and highly respected Sunday school teacher and religious worker, was taken to her lodgings in San Jose and there revived sufficiently so that her mother coudl bring her back to the family home at 1284 Franklin streat, Oakland. There she was kept under the care of physicans and the police were appealed to to prevent her being sen by any of the Holy Roller cult for fear their terrible influence might again be cast over her. For a time it was learned she would never recover her mind, but, although her nervous system is badly shattered and her physical health affected, her family and friends say that she is gradually gaining her former normal self.

"I have seen a young girl, whom the speakers had tried to influence, taken, against her will. from the audience into the mysterious back room where the secret sessions are held. and the door locked to prevent the entrance of any of her friends," said Mrs. F. M. Mummert, wife of the maganger of the Boys' Retreat and who lives near to the hall formerly occupied by the Apostolic Faith sect on Harrison Street.

"During the servies both emen and women would become so enthused by the strange influence of the leaders that they would fall to the floor and roll about together howling and screaming in unintelligible jargon. Their actions were positively indecent and the jibberish they gave voice to was idiotic. They believe that this raving is the "gift of tingues" and think the people thus affected are taking in the languages of long dead apostles and religious teachers of foreign lands.

"We who live near to the hall where they held their meetings were often disturbed by their wild disturbances and have often had to appeal to the police when the nice was continued until long after midnight. The band always had a watchman out and whenever the police came near they subsided.

"On one such accasion," said Mimmert, "I climbed over the roof of the verandah and started to rap on the window of their rear room,the "inner chamber" or "holy of holies" I was bent on stopping their noise only. The window was open, and before I rapped I looked in and the things I saw in progress there quite substantiate the charges Mrs. Holland has made."

The Oakland band is now composed of about thirty people and is led by Sparks and his wife. They hold mightly meetings on the street at Ninth and Broadway and semi-weekly meetings at the rooms formerly occupied by the Peniel Mission on Tenth Street. Sparks declines to assume any responsibility for bringing Holland to Oakland and for the destitute condition of his family.

[Scott Pitta]

Joseph Sparks was at the Azuza Street revival. He had a pair of article published. It makes sense that a minister from Azuza would take over the church started by Seymour.

That's all I know for now. This mission had to move 3 times. Odd behavior. But did it still exist in 1915 when Morse started his mission in Oakland ? Did Morse know Sparks ?

He was a minister in San Jose in the 20's and 30's. He died in a car crash in 1948.

[Steve Epley]

For perspective we have no idea how much if any of the information is accurate?

[Esaias]

Wow, that's a damning article. I'm enjoying this thread, Scott.

Sounds like an original ad for the movie "Reefer Madness."

[Scott Pitta]

I'm not sure what the services were like. The reporter and the other spectators have never been in a Pentecostal church services before. I'm not sure how Pentecostal services were different from1909 from how they are today.

As I find more data about Sparks, I will post it.

[Scott Pitta]

Joseph Sparks stayed put in San Jose for over 20 years as a minister. I wonder where ? Was he in the UPC ?

[Michael The Disciple]

Those Azuza preachers did have some quirks.

One taught it was a sin for Christians to use medicine.

Another taught the annihilation of the wicked.

Some taught the second work of sanctification, others did not.

With regard to Harry Morse, I want to write who he was and what he taught without judging the merit of his beliefs. I do not have an ax to grind. I want to let him tell his own story.

One thing is certain: they all had unique beliefs.

I want to know what Harry believed, as normal or as odd as it may or may not be.

There are Pentecostal Christians who still believe it is sin to use medicine.

As to the doctrine of "annihilation" meaning sinners will die in the lake of fire Charles Parham the founder of Pentecostalism believed it. He was right.

[Scott Pitta]

Interesting...I am a writer, not a critic.

The range of belief and how it has changed over time is something I find very interesting.

[Scott Pitta]

The following is a reply provided by the Apostolic Faith Mission of Oakland dated Feb. 13, 1909. It was penned by FC Velder. He has some run on sentences. Some of the words were impossible to read such readings are identified by (...).

Now I need to find out who Velder was.

I noticed you gave large space to the so-called "Holy Rollers." Will you kindly give this communication as prominate a position in your paper ? In the first place, there are no such people as the Holy Rollers in Oakland, nor never has been to my knowledge. This name "Holy Rollers" is applied as a nickname to the Apostolic Faith Mission work, which name does not apply to them.

Allow me to make an explination of the Apostolic movement. It is simply a band of people who believe the teachings of Jesus Christ as He taught His Apostles and Disciples before He was crucified. Jesus promised to send the promise of the Father which was the Holy Ghost or Comforter- St. John 14:26, but commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem until they were endowed with power from on high- St. Luke 24:49. They were not commanded to attend some college until they received a polished education and became orators, but to tarry until they received the promise of the Father.

Word was fulfilled

This was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost and the Word of Jesus was fulfilled and as the 120 tarried as commanded ( this commandment is as much for this day as for that) The Holy Ghost fell upon them and they all spoke with tongues as the Holy Ghost gave utterance according to Acts 2:4, 10:45 and 19:6. This was the Holy Ghost Himself speaking the same Holy Ghost power has been poured upon all who have asked and believed and tarried according to the commandment of Jesus at this present time and is spread all over the world so it is not only in America bu the world over and ministers and Christians who ought to have received the outpouring and the Holy Spirit has taught it and denied it is from God. But they cannot show a passage in the Bible where God ever withdrew His Holy Spirit.

Why pay salaries ?

Peter said it was for every one as many as the Lord God should call Acts 2:38. And to all who obey Him Acts 5:32. Has God ...calling sinner to repent and be sanctified and baptized in the Holy Ghost ...keep up these big churches paying big salaries to preachers many who are not sanctified. The fact that preachers are preaching without the baptism in the Holy Ghost according to Acts 2:4 etc. This why the ministers Rev White and Vosburgh and Baker take up the fight against the Holy Ghost ... not one of them ever having attended any of the meetings. Nor have they any personal knowledge of them. They only go by hearsay. No court of law would take that kind of testimony.

Misrepresentations

I cannot take time to deny all the misrepresentations outlined in these articles published. There wasn't a grain a bit of truth in any of it. As regard the investigation that the Unitarian minister made I do not consider it worth noting for anything who denies the divinity of Jesus Christ and the precious blood of Jesus Christ knows nothing about salvation let alone the baptism in the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost cannot be investigated by that kind of people.

Will produce witnesses

If the Revs White and Vosburgh want to hear them and whence ...to this Holy Ghost movement Let them appoint a time and place and I can bring scores of men and women who can testify to the saving sanctifying and Baptism in the Holy Ghost as recorded in Acts. I can produce men who have been ministers ...and all manners of evil and who have been healed according to the promise of Jesus. Deep confessions have been made. Testimony have been made and the people now enjoying perfect peace through the Lord Jesus Christ and through His cleansing blood all since this Pentecostal movement began.

The apostolic people ...of Christians that can preach the whole gospel against all sins and immoralities Jesus said the devil was a liar. Jesus knew and he is a liar still and would blind the eyes of honest seekers after the truth if he can, by publishing a lot of stuff through his own agents to destroy if possible God's work.

If the ministers of this land were to receive this Penetcostal experience and preach it to their congregations there would not be this deadness in the churches there is today. In the apostolic they took only such as were saved, but for the past century they take any one in if he only will contribute to the expenses of the ...church. That is why there is so much worldliness in the churches today. Just think of it- 175 ministers have left the pulpits within a year or so. No doubt many were attracted by the salary. Some of these ministers smoke in public...attend banquets the good fellows everywhere. Do you think Jesus Christ would approve such doings if he were here ? No, a thousand times, no.

Never take collections

The apostolic people never take up collection for the hall rent or for their preacher. They hold big camp meeting conventions, et. and never take up collections. Thousands of copies of papers and thousands of copies of pamphlets booklets etc. are published and sent everywhere free of charge leaving all with the Lord, the Holy Spirit telling you what to donate. How does this ...with the way our churches are emptied ...have any of our churches go on this plan ? They dare not try, It is the Holy Ghost way, and they must practice Holy Ghost commandments before they can do it. The whole world is being stirred with this Holy Ghost movement, it is even in Jerusalem again where it first ...and it all ...as the soon coming of our Lord Jesus again as he promised.

This is not preached nor believed in our churches today, neither is the king casting out demons. All of them where before Pentecost. Why are they not in the church today ?

T C Velder

[Scott Pitta]

No mention of Seymour or Parham in the article. The name of the Mission is the same as the Azuza mission. The theme of world evangelism is the same as at Azuza. The students under Harry Morse had to live by faith and not work. This concept is seen in this letter. Notice the focus is being filled with the Holy Spirit, not speaking in tongues.

I have not seen this article in any of the literature about Azuza Street. Consider it a perk of being part of the AFF. :)

[Scott Pitta]

It appears that this group left town and relocated to San Jose. Sparks stayed there for the rest of his life.

I wonder if the citizens of Oakland still had a bad taste in their mouth about Pentecostals when Harry Morse arrived in town 6 years later ? Was this the group that was the result of Seymours revival in 1906 ? Or did they become some other church ?

A Holy Roller group was still in the bay are in 1929. If Sparks was no longer with them ( he stayed in San Jose) then I don't think they had any connection to Seymour in Azuza.

Some stories build faith and end well. Others serve as a warning of what not to be.

[Scott Pitta]

2 churches were in Oakland in 1910 that had the same name: Apostolic Faith Mission. Until tonight, all the press articles were about one group. This group had been in or near Oakland since 1903. They are locally called the "Holy Rollers"

This group is known for broken families, emotional worship, and unrealistic behavior, like trying to walk on water. Their leaders prey on young teenage girls.

The other church has had no press. Only in one article does a local Methodist minister explain the difference between the 2 churches.

He favorably describes the church started by the Mission from Azuza as worshippers who engage in Mission work and preaching.

Hopefully, I can find news reports about Seymour's crusade in Oakland. The article mentions Studd, but not Seymour.

Did Harry Morse take over the Mission started by Seymour ? Did his mission become unfavorably compared to by the Apostolics with the bad reputation ? How did he distinguish his mission from the others ?

[Scott Pitta]

Those Azuza missionaries were of the opinion that the timing of the San Francisco earthquake and the outpouring were connected. Judgement came to the city by the bay, a few months later, the Spirit was poured out.

Bartleman wrote about it. There was an explosion of Pentecostal churches in Oakland afterwards.

Not sure what to make of it.

[Carl]

Those Azuza missionaries were of the opinion that the timing of the San Francisco earthquake and the outpouring were connected. Judgement came to the city by the bay, a few months later, the Spirit was poured out.

Bartleman wrote about it. There was an explosion of Pentecostal churches in Oakland afterwards.

Not sure what to make of it.

Interesting. I recall Bartleman writing that he had just finished a period of prayer and fasting before the earthquake. He then wrote a tract about it. I've sure enjoyed all this history, thanks for posting it.

[Steve Epley]

I told Elder Larry Booker about this thread he loves Pentecostal history.

[KeptByTheWord]

I have followed this thread with interest as well. Thank you Scott for sharing your findings with us as your journey progresses!

[Jermyn Davidson]

I just finished reading from page one of this thread.

God bless you Scott for starting this thread and for conducting your research. Now, I too want to know more about Mr. Harry Morse!

[Scott Pitta]

W F Manley pastored Free Methodist churches in the midwest from 1880 until 1900. He moved to Los Angeles and pastored the flock of 9 families that became the core congregation that became the Apostolic Faith Mission. He then began a mission in Oakland called the "Household of God". That was in 1905. When the Spirit fell at Azuza Street, he returned to LA. But he did not experience his Pentecost until after he returned to Oakland.

Staff from Seymours church came to WF Manley's mission. Many were filled with the Spirit. Manley advertises in the paper that 500 have been healed. During his time in Oakland, he published the "Household of Faith" magazine.

In 1911, it all ended. No more mentions in the paper. No more magazines.

Did he die ? Did he leave the country on a missionary trip never to return ?

In 1918, he sends a book he wrote a eschatology book "Galaxy of Coming Events: Meaning and Outcome of the European War Terminating in a World Confederation According to Prophecy". It looks like he wrote it in Los Angeles after his time in Oakland.

Seymour did not pastor long at Azuza Street. The mission started by Manley only lasted from 1905 until 1911. But Morse pastored for 47 years in Oakland.

The Household of Gd mission ended 4 years before Morse came to town. I wonder if any of Manley's old saints ended up in Morse's Mission ?

Morse and Manley were both at Azuza. Neither were Spirit filled there. They were both from the midwest and ended up in Oakland.

Where are you William Frances Manley ?

[Abiding Now]

I look forward to each new post. Thanks.

[Scott Pitta]

W F Manley was in Los Angeles in 1905, where he had tent services that attracted the crowd that became the mission that invited William Seymour to be their pastor.

Manley then moved to Oakland. He opened the "Household of God" mission. He was there from 1905 until 1911.

In 1912 Manley returned to Los Angeles where he founded the Pentecostal Mission, not far from the other missions that grew out of the Azuza outpouring.

He passed away in 1936.

More to come.

[Scott Pitta]

In 1918, there were 14 Pentecostal Missions in central Los Angeles. One of them was pastored by "Evangelist" Andrew Urshan.

I noticed it in the city directory of 1918.

I wonder why he was there. How long did he stay ? How did he end up in charge of a mission ? Who was in charge of the mission after he left ?

Did he meet WF Manley ? William Seymour ? Harry Morse was in Oakland in 1918. So they did not meet in Los Angeles. I wonder if Urshan visited Morse in Oakland.

Time for Mr. Pitta to purchase the biography of Urshan. There are 2 that I know of. One was printed in Portland, the other in Stockton.

[Scott Pitta]

1913 AU was in Chicago "Edgewood Central Church" on63 St. ( F.S. Bernauer was the pastor)

1916 AU pens article for the Evangel magazine "Thirsty for God"

1917 AU is in Winnipeg, Manitoba

1918 AU is pastoring the Pentecostal Mission in Los Angeles, California.

1920 AU is in Ramsay, Minnesota

Why did Andrew Urshan go to Los Angeles ?

[Scott Pitta]

William Francis Manley was a Free Methodist prior to moving to Los Angeles in 1904. I'm still not sure why he moved to LA. Most of his ministry had been in the midwest. He was in Oakland for 6 years. After he left Oakland, his church merged with the Apostolic Faith Mission in San Franscisco. That was in 1911.

Manley returned to LA and pastored a mission near Azuza street until 1917. during that time he wrote a book about prophecy. His last years he was retired and breading goats.

Manley left Oakland in 1911. Harry Morse and his team moved to Oakland in 1915 and began the Big Downtown Mission. Many of his Azuza friends visited his church. If there was interaction between the Apostolic Faith Mission in SF and the Big Downtown Mission, I have not found it, yet.

Lydia Swinton ran the mission in Stockton after Morse left it to move to Oakland. But I have not found any interaction between the 2 missions.

Research slowly continues. This is your update.

[Steve Epley]

Again thanks for your work on this.

[derAlte]

This is so interesting...I join the others in saying thanks for sharing your research. As a young man, I was acquainted with Ellis Scism who was with Morse as a student. Ellis & Marjorie Scism were still living in Portland, Oregon when I knew them and I remember that he kept papers and periodicals going back many decades. I suspect he may have had some stuff from his Harry Morse days. I wonder what happened to all of it?

[Scott Pitta]

4/21/33 Spencer News Herald Spencer, Iowa

A convention of ministers, elders, evangelists and members of the Oneness churches of the Northwestern and Central Western states, is to be held in Spencer on April 14 to 23, it is announced by Elder C. E. Lundquist, pastor on East First street. Elder H. E. Doss of Marathon os cooperating in making plans for the meeting. Chairmen of the convention will be D. D. Dainty of Knoxville, In. and the secretary is Elder B. D. Urshan of St. Paul, Minn.

The Oneness council includes the churches of the states of Iowa, Minnesota, North and South Dakota, Wisconsin, Missouri, Kansas and Nebraska and a large attendance is expected. Further announcements are to be made as the time of the convention nears.

[Scott Pitta]

I saw the Spencer paper article and had to post it. All the names and details are unknown to me. It has nothing to do with Harry Morse, but it is odd enough to post.

[Scott Pitta]

Andrew Urshan visited Harry Morse in 1930.

Andrew Urshan was in Winnipeg, Manitoba in July of 1917. With him was A. G. Garr. Garr was the first white pastor of any denomination to be Spirit filled at Azuza (June 16, 1906)

The other traveling minister with Urshan was 'W. Black".

Who was he ? He is not on my list of Azuza revival participants.

?????????????

[Carl]

4/21/33 Spencer News Herald Spencer, Iowa

A convention of ministers, elders, evangelists and members of the Oneness churches of the Northwestern and Central Western states, is to be held in Spencer on April 14 to 23, it is announced by Elder C. E. Lundquist, pastor on East First street. Elder H. E. Doss of Marathon os cooperating in making plans for the meeting. Chairmen of the convention will be D. D. Dainty of Knoxville, In. and the secretary is Elder B. D. Urshan of St. Paul, Minn.

The Oneness council includes the churches of the states of Iowa, Minnesota, North and South Dakota, Wisconsin, Missouri, Kansas and Nebraska and a large attendance is expected. Further announcements are to be made as the time of the convention nears.

Thanks for the updates Scott! Brother Dainty was pastor of the wife's family in Knoxville. They came into pentecost there in the 1920's. There were a few conventions held in Auroraville, Wisconsin about this same time also. I just read Samuel Hardt's biography which mentions some of these meetings with these same old-time pentecostals.

[Scott Pitta]

I have stopped gathering data until I could organize the data I already have.

Lydia Swinton who ran a mission in Stockton is nearly done.

William Manley is the person who has the most data available. I have data for almost every period of his life.

Harry Morse, the real focus, is a bit evasive. I have his timeline down. I know who preached at his church. I know more about his churches than I do about him. I am close to getting my hands on a class notebook one of his students had. Hopefully, that will help understand his thinking.

I contacted the present pastor of Frank Ewarts church in Los Angeles. He knew very little about Ewart and had no documents about him. Despite the fact that Ewart founded that church.

The PAW has no archive. The UPC and the AG archives are very helpful, but have little data about Morse.

That is your update.

[Scott Pitta]

William Gorham wrote a letter to the Household of God magazine. He said that on Sept 17, 1907 there was a Pentecostal camp meeting in Stockton, California.No other names are mentioned in the letter.

Who is William Gorham ? This would probably be the first Pentecostal meeting of any kind in Stockton.

Any leads ??

[Scott Pitta]

The "Apostolic Faith Church" was a collection of mainly southern churches that were connected by Charles Parham. By 1950, there were about 50 churches in the group.

One was in Stockton. The pastor was Lee Brock. In Jan of 1951, Pauline Parham, the stepdaughter of Charles Parham, preached a revival in the Stockton church.

It looks like they were trinitarian in theology. They also taught the annihilation of the wicked, as did Harry Morse.

So Bartleman preached in Stockton(1906) just prior to moving to Los Angeles. Morse brings Pentecost(1906) with him to Stockton. Parma's stepdaughter(1951) preaches in Stockton.

I never knew of the Azuza connections to Stockton.

In 1957 the "Apostolic Movement in the name of Jesus Christ" had a church in Stockton. I do not know who they were. They were only there 2 years. But a church with the same name still meets in San Jose. I will be calling them today.

[Scott Pitta]

I have 3 documents ready for review:

Biography of Harry Morse from birth until 1915

Biography of Lydia Swinton

Roster of students from the Morse Mission Home in Oakland

[Scott Pitta]

I found a person who was a youngster at the Big Downtown Mission. Hopefully, she will have some stories and pictures. More than anything, I need to understand the theology of Harry Morse. I really don't have much to go on.

Happy New Year !!!

[Abiding Now]

Enjoy your research and posts. Happy New Year.

[J.A. Perez]

If Elder Clyde Haney was one of Morse's boys, and he followed after his teachings. I have an old tape of Elder Haney preaching strong Acts 2:38, and Holiness standards that are as stout as any and more than most.

[Scott Pitta]

Morse did not leave much writing behind for me to read. Understanding what he believed is hard to say the least. He believed in "social purity" and he was a sabbath keeper. He had a lot of women preachers at his church and teaching at the school. He worked with other churches for evangelistic meetings. He was in several different organizations. His friends were lifelong.

Hopefully, I will get my hands on a students notebook from the theology classes. One of the witnesses found theirs.

[Scott Pitta]

Social Purity was also called marital purity. It began in Texas around 1895. BH Irwin and others promoted it. Irwin found his way to the Azuza Street Mission and then for a short period to Oakland (in 1907). In 1909 Irwin was back in Los Angeles and then faded away from history.

How Harry Morse and Lydia Swinton learned of the social purity doctrine, I do not know. They did not spend any time in Texas. Irwin or someone else must have brought it to California.


Who else promoted the social purity doctrine. It taught that married couples were to remain celebrate.

[Steve Epley]

Social Purity was also called marital purity. It began in Texas around 1895. BH Irwin and others promoted it. Irwin found his way to the Azuza Street Mission and then for a short period to Oakland (in 1907). In 1909 Irwin was back in Los Angeles and then faded away from history.

How Harry Morse and Lydia Swinton learned of the social purity doctrine, I do not know. They did not spend any time in Texas. Irwin or someone else must have brought it to California.


Who else promoted the social purity doctrine. It taught that married couples were to remain celebrate.

The movement called the School of Prophets whose founder was William Sowders taught social purity.

[Scott Pitta]

Thanks for the lead !!!! :)

[Steve Epley]

Thanks for the lead !!!! :)

He was a contemporary of those guys his influence was far reaching.

[Hesetmefree238]

Social purity, Wow! No sex within marriage. I know they were sincere, just sincerely wrong. It's amazing how many have a guilt complex when it comes to sex.

Hebrews 13:4 "Marriage is honorable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge."

[Steve Epley]

Social purity, Wow! No sex within marriage. I know they were sincere, just sincerely wrong. It's amazing how many have a guilt complex when it comes to sex.

Hebrews 13:4 "Marriage is honorable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge."

The origin was they believe the forbidden fruit in the garden was sex. Thus to be a perfect overcomer victory must be gained over sex. Crazy but there it is.

[Scott Pitta]

I do not know where Harry Morse and Lydia Swinton learned the doctrine. If it began in Texas in the 1890's, how did a pair of ministers from the central California region learn of it and adopt it ? Neither travelled to Texas. Yet both believed it by 1920.

They both worked in Peniel Missions. But it was not a doctrine of the Peniel Mission. I have not seen it connected to Azuza Street. Benjamin Hardin Irwin promoted it in Texas. He was at Azuza for a short time. Then he went to Oakland for a year or two. Is he the one who spread the idea ? Or was it something else?

[Scott Pitta]

Rev. Haskell of the Seventh Day Adventist church taught the "social purity" doctrine. He was in Oakland in 1900. Morse did not arrive in Oakland until 1915.

Harry Morse was a Sabbath keeper. Did Morse get the "social purity" doctrine from the same place he was influenced to be a Sabbath keeper, the Seventh Day Adventist church ???

[Scott Pitta]

Morse began the Pentecostal Mission in Stockton. When he left it to move to Oakland, Able Jones became pastor. He is a mystery man. No data. Then Lydia Swinton became the pastor. She was pastor until 1945.

Before Lydia Swinton moved to Stockton, she lived in Fresno at the Salem Home for Girls. Selma M Nelson also worked there.

What is the Salem Home for girls ? Selma Nelson became pastor in Fresno and lived there until she passed in 1973.

Who knows Selma Nelson ??? Salem Home for Girls ???

[Scott Pitta]

Who is still alive who remembers Harry Morse ??

I run into someone about once per week who knew of him.

Who am I missing ??

[Steve Epley]

Who is still alive who remembers Harry Morse ??

I run into someone about once per week who knew of him.

Who am I missing ??

Have you tried David Gray? His dad knew him?

[Scott Pitta]

Yes, David Gray and I are in contact, thanks !!

[Scott Pitta]

The official name of the Bible school in Oakland was......

Morse Bible and Missionary Training Home

Former students all had different names for it.

Ministry peer of Harry Morse and Lydia Swinton was Selma Nelson. She and Lydia worked at a Peniel Mission in Fresno when they were young. Lydia Became pastor of the Pentecostal Mission and Selma Nelson became pastor of Emmanuel Pentecostal Mission in Fresno.

Today was a productive day in research. :)

[Scott Pitta]

On Jan 13, 1936 there was a missionary conference at the Emmanuel Mission in Fresno, California. The host pastor was Selma Nelson. The evening speaker was Harry Morse.

2 other speakers are mentioned: Miss Elsie King of Oakland, and Rev. J A Johnson of Lodi.

This is my first connection between Morse and Nelson. I wonder if this was a PCI function? Time to do more homework.

[Scott Pitta]

Selma Nelson was a "matron" of a rescue house for unwed mothers. Emmanuel Pentecostal Mission began around 1934. There was also a training school there for missionaries that actually exported missionaries to China. In 1943 Earl Toole became the pastor. Nelson retired.

[Scott Pitta]

There were 3 mission Bible schools in central California Harry Morse was in Oakland. Lydia Swinton was in Stockton and Selma Nelson was in Fresno. All 3 schools exported missionaries to Asia. All 3 leaders either believed in "social purity" or were lifelong single (Selma Nelson).

Oakland was open from 1915 until 1941.
Stockton was open from 1922 until 1948.
Selma Nelson was in Fresno from around 1933 until 1943.

These are the years of the schools. Nelson arrived in Fresno in 1920. Morse pastored until 1962.

This was prior to the UPC. They may have been PCI. The 3 missions did fellowship together.

David Gray was a student at all 3 schools.

[Steve Epley]

There were 3 mission Bible schools in central California Harry Morse was in Oakland. Lydia Swinton was in Stockton and Selma Nelson was in Fresno. All 3 schools exported missionaries to Asia. All 3 leaders either believed in "social purity" or were lifelong single (Selma Nelson).

Oakland was open from 1915 until 1941.
Stockton was open from 1922 until 1948.
Selma Nelson was in Fresno from around 1933 until 1943.

These are the years of the schools. Nelson arrived in Fresno in 1920. Morse pastored until 1962.

This was prior to the UPC. They may have been PCI. The 3 missions did fellowship together.

David Gray was a student at all 3 schools.
So interesting.

[Scott Pitta]

Reverend Epley, when I began all of this, all I had was a name: Harry Morse. I may have found the first Oneness missionaries. I certainly found the first one who died as a martyr. Hopefully, I will discover more.

[Steve Epley]

Reverend Epley, when I began all of this, all I had was a name: Harry Morse. I may have found the first Oneness missionaries. I certainly found the first one who died as a martyr. Hopefully, I will discover more.

I appreciate your labor on this.

[KeptByTheWord]

Scott, are you collecting this information for a purpose? It seems like a lot of work that you are undertaking to research all this!

[Scott Pitta]

It began as writing the biography of Harry Morse. But he did not leave much of a paper trail. But he had ministry peers whose bios have not been penned. So I am writing them all: Morse, Swinton, Nelson and the untold missionaries.

It will be put on file at the archives of the UPC, AOG, and the PAW. Those family members who have aided me will also be given a copy.

I am on sabbatical from being a deacon. So a writing a book is in order.

Posting updates here hopefully connects me with those who might know something. Additionally, they show up in google searches.

It is a bit like solving a mystery. :)

[Scott Pitta]

The Pentecostal Herald of Feb. 1947 has an article by C. C. Hayden of Fresno. This was a member of the church started by Selma Nelson.

There is also missionary story about China missionary Mrs. Mae Try. Mae Try visited the same church pastored by Selma Nelson.

There is a short bio about David Gray. It notes he attended the mission school ran by Harry Morse.

Finally, there is an article penned by Harry Morse.

It is one of the very few that I have.

[ReformedDave]

Scott, did you know that my father's parents were missionaries to Japan? My grandmother went in 1902 under the auspices of the Christian Missionary Alliance. After marrying my grandfather and receiving her pentecostal experience they went back under the PAW.

[Steve Epley]

Scott, did you know that my father's parents were missionaries to Japan? My grandmother went in 1902 under the auspices of the Christian Missionary Alliance. After marrying my grandfather and receiving her pentecostal experience they went back under the PAW.

Thanks. I think you can really add to this discussion from personal knowledge.

[KeptByTheWord]

It began as writing the biography of Harry Morse. But he did not leave much of a paper trail. But he had ministry peers whose bios have not been penned. So I am writing them all: Morse, Swinton, Nelson and the untold missionaries.

It will be put on file at the archives of the UPC, AOG, and the PAW. Those family members who have aided me will also be given a copy.

I am on sabbatical from being a deacon. So a writing a book is in order.

Posting updates here hopefully connects me with those who might know something. Additionally, they show up in google searches.

It is a bit like solving a mystery. :)

Am enjoying reading your uncovering of the history - thanks for sharing your research with us :)

[Scott Pitta]

I learned of 2 early Pentecostal organizations. One was the "Pentecostal Organization of Turlock" from 1921. Looks like they had about 50 members.

The other was the "Northern San Joaquin Valley Pentecostal Ministers" of 1926.

On another note, I am finding many pastors and evangelists who were not men. 2 of the 3 mission homes I am studying were headed by women.

I am not sure why women in ministry was common then, but not now. I do not wish to stir the pot, I am simply observing something unique.

[Steve Epley]

I learned of 2 early Pentecostal organizations. One was the "Pentecostal Organization of Turlock" from 1921. Looks like they had about 50 members.

The other was the "Northern San Joaquin Valley Pentecostal Ministers" of 1926.

On another note, I am finding many pastors and evangelists who were not men. 2 of the 3 mission homes I am studying were headed by women.

I am not sure why women in ministry was common then, but not now. I do not wish to stir the pot, I am simply observing something unique.

Congregations in the early days of Pentecost in some place were mostly women for a season.

[Abiding Now]

Men had to do real work.

[Scott Pitta]

How do I find data about the PCI ? I googled it and found nothing. Does Hazelwood have the old archives of the PCI ??

[Steve Epley]

How do I find data about the PCI ? I googled it and found nothing. Does Hazelwood have the old archives of the PCI ??

I suggest Thomas Fudge's book.

[Scott Pitta]

I am trying to find out if Selma Nelson or Lydia Swinton were licensed with the PCI. I will call Hazelwood in the morning. Not sure where else to look.

[Steve Epley]

I am trying to find out if Selma Nelson or Lydia Swinton were licensed with the PCI. I will call Hazelwood in the morning. Not sure where else to look.

Christianity Without the Cross is the name of Fudge's book. It is written from a PCI perspective.

[Scott Pitta]

I have both of Fudge's books. A few of his classmates at CBC ended up being my classmates at CLC.

Small world.

[Steve Epley]

I have both of Fudge's books. A few of his classmates at CBC ended up being my classmates at CLC.

Small world.

I am not UPC nor have ever been and certainly am not in agreement with the PCI views just naming it as a source? I personally don't know another?

[Scott Pitta]

Harry Morse was in the PCI. So I am trying to see if Nelson and Swinton were also in it.

[derAlte]

Who is still alive who remembers Harry Morse ??

I run into someone about once per week who knew of him.

Who am I missing ??

Have you been in touch with Ellis Scism's children Harry and Ferne? Also, C.H. Yadon's daughter Jewell Dillon probably knew him. She was living in Idaho last I knew.

[Scott Pitta]

Yes, I am in contact with both Harry and Jewel. I am always in need of more students from the Morse Mission Home.

[Esaias]

Rev. Haskell of the Seventh Day Adventist church taught the "social purity" doctrine. He was in Oakland in 1900. Morse did not arrive in Oakland until 1915.

Harry Morse was a Sabbath keeper. Did Morse get the "social purity" doctrine from the same place he was influenced to be a Sabbath keeper, the Seventh Day Adventist church ???

William Durham publicly repudiated the doctrine in his church newsletter in 1912. He had a work in Chicago but moved to Los Angeles. When he was away Frank Ewart was running it (the one in LA). When Durham died Ewart took over the church.

Apparently the social purity doctrine was making the rounds throughout Pentecost in 1911-1912.

[Esaias]

Harry Morse was in the PCI. So I am trying to see if Nelson and Swinton were also in it.

What was his connection with Ewart and/or Durham?

[Scott Pitta]

Ewart and Morse met at Azuza Street. They both pastored missions nearby the Apostolic Faith Mission. When Morse founded (1915) the Big Downtown Mission in Oakland, Ewart would come and preach for him, as did other Azuza alumni. Morse preached Ewart's funeral in 1947.

[Steve Epley]

What was his connection with Ewart and/or Durham?

Ewart was a disciple of Durham. Took Durham's church in LA.

[ReformedDave]

My father attended Glen Cook's church, was Ewart's sunday school leader, an assistant to Morse and pastored George Studd. Too bad he's not around or wrote much about his history.

[Scott Pitta]

A Harry Morse update is in order...

1910 He started the "Stockton Manufacturing Construction and Improvement Company" to sell lots, build houses and a public school for Pentecostals in Stockton.

1913 At the Apostolic Faith Camp Meeting, a committee was formed to distribute donations for foreign missions. On the committee were: A H Argue, Harry Morse, R E McAlister, F J Ewart, Warren W Fisher, R J Scott, G B Studd.

1923 Warren E Carothers hosted a Pentecostal Unity Conference for Missions. It was to promote fellowship and cooperation between different Pentecostal denominations. Of the 40 or so leaders invited, Harry Morse was one of them.

[Scott Pitta]

“God finally broke the news to us as to the absolute absence in the Word of God of there being a second instantaneous work of grace. This truth nearly upset the Pentecostal movement but believers of that phase of teaching are comparatively few. Now God is taking us a big step farther and showing us that there is an absolute absence of even two experiences taught or recorded in the Acts of the Apostles, gospels, or epistles, viz., the new birth and then the baptism afterwards. Neither can we find one reference to two acts of faith ever taught or recorded where any one was ever born of the Spirit under one act of faith and next filled with the Spirit under a second act of faith; ‘tis not in the New Testament.

Harry Morse quote
Pentecostal Herald
Feb. 1947

[Garbonzo]

Scott,

I don't have contact info but you should speak to Jonathan McCune in Stockton, CA.

He is listed as a staff writer on one of the CLC websites.

Anyhow his father Henry McCune and Mother Gladys were both missionaries to China for the PAW early on and I think also PCI. Not a guarantee but there may be a link to Henry Morse given the West Coast connections.

[Scott Pitta]

Harry Morse believed in the "social purity" doctrine. His ministry peers, Lydia Swinton and Selma Nelson were lifelong celebrates. So was Florence Crawford. Not sure about Clara Lum and the others.

There may have been more supporters of the "social purity" doctrine that I have first thought.

[Esaias]

Harry Morse believed in the "social purity" doctrine. His ministry peers, Lydia Swinton and Selma Nelson were lifelong celebrates. So was Florence Crawford. Not sure about Clara Lum and the others.

There may have been more supporters of the "social purity" doctrine that I have first thought.

The doctrine was refuted by William Durham in 1912, so it was making the rounds back in the earliest days.

[Scott Pitta]

Where is the document of Durham refuting it ? It may be that Ben Irwin started it in Texas around 1895. But it may be that it was a seventh day Adventist idea.

Irwin preached against a lot of things. But he was a fraud. How those at Azuza did not see through him amazes me.

[Esaias]

Durham's Pentecostal Testimony. The thread I started refers to the full citation and a link to where you can get a pdf copy of it.

Here:

https://pentecostalarchives.org/search/

Search for pentecostal testimony and for the years enter 1910 to 1912.

The specific one is the May 1912 edition, under the heading False Doctrines.

[Esaias]

http://pentecostalarchives.org/digitalPublications/USA/Independent/Pentecostal%20Testimony/Unregistered/1912/FPHC/1912_01.pdf

http://pentecostalarchives.org/digitalPublications/USA/Independent/Pentecostal%20Testimony/Unregistered/1912/FPHC/1912_05.pdf

http://pentecostalarchives.org/digitalPublications/USA/Independent/Pentecostal%20Testimony/Unregistered/1912/FPHC/1912_06.pdf

Should one of those three, probably the second one.

[Scott Pitta]

Thanks !!!!

[seguidordejesus]

Harry Morse believed in the "social purity" doctrine. His ministry peers, Lydia Swinton and Selma Nelson were lifelong celebrates. So was Florence Crawford. Not sure about Clara Lum and the others.

There may have been more supporters of the "social purity" doctrine that I have first thought.

Sounds like there wasn't a lot of "celebrating" going on.

[Steve Epley]

William Sowders the founder of the School of Prophet movement taught the social purity doctrine for those who were going to make perfection. His movement coincided with the rest of the American Pentecostal movement. He was two ness.

[Scott Pitta]

A lady I interviewed for my book was a child when Harry Morse was her pastor. She said Morse believed in 2. But she was too young at the time to remember any more about it.

Thanks for the lead about William Sowders !!

[Scott Pitta]

Oops. Typo. My bad.


:)

[Steve Epley]

A lady I interviewed for my book was a child when Harry Morse was her pastor. She said Morse believed in 2. But she was too young at the time to remember any more about it.

Thanks for the lead about William Sowders !!

Sowders influence was mostly Midwest and certain parts of the South although his camp ground at Shepherdsville, Ky. Drew large crowds.

[Esaias]

I guess the Gospel Assembly folks didn't follow Sowders in that area. Most GA families I knew had lots of kids...

[Steve Epley]

I guess the Gospel Assembly folks didn't follow Sowders in that area. Most GA families I knew had lots of kids...

The doctrine faded away although the generation ahead of me had many who never married. But Sowders and Jolly both taught this.

[Scott Pitta]

Today, I followed the trail of Selma Nelson. She worked at the Peniel Mission. Later, in 1927, she began the Emmanuel Pentecostal Mission in Fresno. She was pastor there until 1943.

The mission was part boarding house, part missionary training school, part church. Like the missions in Oakland and Stockton, after the war they transformed into churches.

I do not know why she stopped being the pastor. I still do not know when she died or where. I want to read her obit.

I did find a picture of the mission.

I really need to find a local church history of Fresno. I called a few local Fresno churches today. Nothing yet.

Oakland, Stockton and Fresno had monthly fellowship meetings. Possibly Lodi as well.

I need more clues.

[Scott Pitta]

Typical day for this project.

A college buddy sends me a facebook message of the name of a former student of Harry Morse. I look the guy up and he has been dead for 3 years.

I will contact his daughters and see if he has any old pictures or memories from his Oakland days.

William Jun Nukida will be added to the roster of alumni from the Morse Missionary Training Home.

Nukida was a UPC missionary to Japan in 1955. He is the second Japanese student I am aware of.

I wonder if Hazelwood keeps missionary applications on file. It may give some useful data about Nukida.

[Scott Pitta]

Thanks, Sweet Pea !!!

[Scott Pitta]

Today, Bible school notes from 1929 came in the mail. They are theology notes taken by a student who sat in classes taught by Harry Morse. It is only one notebook, but it is something I have been trying to find for a year.

I will copy the notes, return them to the owner, and begin a new chapter to the biography of Harry Morse.

I have about 50 pages of biography, biographies of his ministry peers, and a log of who preached at the Big Downtown Mission from 1915 until 1963.

The notebook of class notes is a huge discovery and I am very excited !!!

[Steve Epley]

Today, Bible school notes from 1929 came in the mail. They are theology notes taken by a student who sat in classes taught by Harry Morse. It is only one notebook, but it is something I have been trying to find for a year.

I will copy the notes, return them to the owner, and begin a new chapter to the biography of Harry Morse.

I have about 50 pages of biography, biographies of his ministry peers, and a log of who preached at the Big Downtown Mission from 1915 until 1963.

The notebook of class notes is a huge discovery and I am very excited !!!
:thumbsup I look forward to your reports. The book will be interesting.

[seguidordejesus]

Maybe you said this before, but why are you so interested in Morse?

[Esaias]

Today, Bible school notes from 1929 came in the mail. They are theology notes taken by a student who sat in classes taught by Harry Morse. It is only one notebook, but it is something I have been trying to find for a year.

I will copy the notes, return them to the owner, and begin a new chapter to the biography of Harry Morse.

I have about 50 pages of biography, biographies of his ministry peers, and a log of who preached at the Big Downtown Mission from 1915 until 1963.

The notebook of class notes is a huge discovery and I am very excited !!!

If you find anything unique, startling, or of interest in those class notes can you share it here? At least a synopsis?

[Scott Pitta]

I decided to write the biography on a whim. I took a week off from work last May to go trout fishing. The mosquitoes were so thick that fishing was impossible.

So I read a book. Sounds old school.

Anyway, the biography of Clyde Haney mentions Harry Morse as the mentor of Clyde Haney. I did not know anything else about him. How did his influence on Haney affect the education I received at Christian Life College ?

So far, data about what Morse believed is difficult to pin down. He did not leave much of a paper trail.

[seguidordejesus]

I decided to write the biography on a whim. I took a week off from work last May to go trout fishing. The mosquitoes were so thick that fishing was impossible.

So I read a book. Sounds old school.

Anyway, the biography of Clyde Haney mentions Harry Morse as the mentor of Clyde Haney. I did not know anything else about him. How did his influence on Haney affect the education I received at Christian Life College ?

So far, data about what Morse believed is difficult to pin down. He did not leave much of a paper trail.

Sounds like a good reason :) Good luck! Glad to hear progress is being made.

[Carl]

Years ago I read about Morse in the book Profiles of Pentecostal Preachers, a WAP book. Still have that and the other editions. Interesting to hear what Scott finds.

[Steve Epley]

As one who loves Pentecostal history loves this stuff.

[Scott Pitta]

Today was productive. An Azuza peer of Harry Morse was WF Manley. He pastored a church in Oakland prior to the arrival of Harry Morse. A person who was saved in Manley's church, the Household of God, described the night he was saved, who preached, and described the church.

A church archive had the document and graciously sent me a copy of it.

A new lead on the teachings of Harry Morse on the tabernacle is in process. I am awaiting a email.

Work on typing the class notes from 1929 continues. Prophecy seemed to be very important. But my focus is on typing and not analysis. Analysis will come later.

Progress is slow but steady.

[Scott Pitta]

I'm about half way through typing up the class notes from 1929. I have about 50 pages so far typed up. Mainly Scriptural references, not much explanation of the verses. Most of the studies are topical. But Morse did spend time in Daniel and Revelation.

Morse did not go to college. He began pastoring when he was in his 20's, so he did not sit under a pastor.

If a Pentecostal pastor only had a few reference books, what books would they be ? This was back in 1929. Cruden's concordance ? Scofield Reference Bible ? Dispensational Truth by Larkin ? What else ?

When I am done typing up the notes, I will do the analysis. The groups of Scriptural references should clue me in to what book, if any, he used.

[Garbonzo]

Scott, the Fausset's Bible Dictionary by A. R. Fausset and the Jamieson, Fausset and Brown Bible Commentary might be candidates for reference works of the time. They can be found online.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Morse is mentioned in Fudge's Heretics & Politics book on 2 pages.

He is linked with C.H. Yadon, Goss & Ewart as having no problems with a statement such as "we believe in the unity of the Godhead."

On the other page it has a picture of Morse with many others and mentions that C.H. Yadon attended Morse's school in Oakland.

I never heard of this book until now. Boy oh boy, isn't Mr Fudge a Hater. :nod

[Scott Pitta]

A history professor at Fuller Seminary was excited about my book. Although he had heard of Harry Morse, he had not heard of Lydia Swinton or Selma Nelson.

Hopefully, I will gain access to a diary of a man who was at Azusa Street and who visited the church where Lydia Swinton pastored. I hope new information is gained. The family has not published the diary and so it is unknown what info will be gained.

Yes, it is a slow process. But progress continues.

[Scott Pitta]

Harry Morse was still AG in 1914. Not sure what he was in 1915 when he moved to Oakland.

I have not tracked what he was in sequence throughout his life. He changed denominations several times. In part because Pentecostalism was in a time of transition.

I did find a guy, Samuel Webster, by name. He was a PAW minister who visited both Lydia Swintons mission in Stockton and Harry Morse in Oakland. He was in Stockton in 1918.

Finding more data about Lydia Swinton and Selma Nelson may require me to visit Stockton and Oakland. The Stockton Record newspaper is not online. Swinton, Nelson and Morse fellowshipped together. None of them ever got married. I think the 3 of the were believers in the "social purity" doctrine. Not sure how Swinton and Nelson encountered Pentecost. Prior to 1906 all 3 were part of the Peniel Mission.

Not sure if Swinton and Nelson were PCI or PAW. Still looking into it.

[Carl]

Harry Morse was still AG in 1914. Not sure what he was in 1915 when he moved to Oakland.

I have not tracked what he was in sequence throughout his life. He changed denominations several times. In part because Pentecostalism was in a time of transition.

I did find a guy, Samuel Webster, by name. He was a PAW minister who visited both Lydia Swintons mission in Stockton and Harry Morse in Oakland. He was in Stockton in 1918.

Finding more data about Lydia Swinton and Selma Nelson may require me to visit Stockton and Oakland. The Stockton Record newspaper is not online. Swinton, Nelson and Morse fellowshipped together. None of them ever got married. I think the 3 of the were believers in the "social purity" doctrine. Not sure how Swinton and Nelson encountered Pentecost. Prior to 1906 all 3 were part of the Peniel Mission.

Not sure if Swinton and Nelson were PCI or PAW. Still looking into it.

Morse was married. His wife was named Maude. There's a picture of them in the chapter about him in Profiles of Pentecostal Preachers, vol. 2, WAP 1984.

[Scott Pitta]

I have that book. That chapter was penned by Jewel Yadon.

Jewel's contributions and clarifications have been of great value.

[Scott Pitta]

I'm still typing up class notes from September of 1929. A guest teacher was a certain Weneguard. Or Wesieguard. The end part "guard" is clear. The first part is not clear.

Any ideas ??

[Scott Pitta]

Harry Morse give instructions for "saints meetings" but I am not sure what he means. They are to be private, not public, Not for unbelievers, heart to heart, he also mentions communion and for washing.

What is a saints meeting ??

[Carl]

Harry Morse give instructions for "saints meetings" but I am not sure what he means. They are to be private, not public, Not for unbelievers, heart to heart, he also mentions communion and for washing.

What is a saints meeting ??

Scott. I remember our church having saints meetings. Some still have them. It was a time time to ask questions or clarify doctrine and remind the saints of their commitment to the local church. Sounds like the old timers may have included communion and foot washing as part of it. It certainly was not meant for the or visitor.

[Steve Epley]

Harry Morse give instructions for "saints meetings" but I am not sure what he means. They are to be private, not public, Not for unbelievers, heart to heart, he also mentions communion and for washing.

What is a saints meeting ??

This practice was yet followed by many PAW churches until the last couple of decades. This was where generally pastors dealt with problems and problem saints.:thumbsup Called saints meeting because it was for saints only not open to public. Both Bishop Haywood and Elder Tobin who followed him at Christ Temple had these and those churches affiliated modeled after them.

[Scott Pitta]

Thanks !! I have profound appreciation for your significant insight !!

When I am done typing up the notes, I will post a meaning analysis or summary of the contents.

[Steve Epley]

There was a large blackboard at Christ Temple as you went down into the dining hall that would list the names of those disfellowshipped. :thumbsup Elder Tobin used that.

[Scott Pitta]

Carl Hayden was connected with Selma Nelson, Harry Morse and Clyde Haney. It looks like I will be writing his biography as well. He was one of the 3 braintrust men who founded my alma mater, WABC (CLC).

Most of the Azusa people who went to Oakland did not stay there long. 10 years tops. Morse stayed there almost 50 years.

[Esaias]

This practice was yet followed by many PAW churches until the last couple of decades. This was where generally pastors dealt with problems and problem saints.:thumbsup Called saints meeting because it was for saints only not open to public. Both Bishop Haywood and Elder Tobin who followed him at Christ Temple had these and those churches affiliated modeled after them.

At my old UPC they had Saints' Meetings, usually for "business" purposes for every born again member to meet and deal with whatever needed to be dealt with. Only went to one which was a roll call for who wanted to sign a card and become a voting member.

[Scott Pitta]

Very interesting !!

[Scott Pitta]

How do I upload a picture on this page ? I finally have one of Selma Nelson circa 1940.

[Esaias]

You'd probably have to upload it to an image hosting server and then link to it using the {IMG} tag.

[Scott Pitta]

http://12006816_10206594761121402_835276028_0.jpg

Selma Marie Nelson is third from the left. Emmanuel Pentecostal Mission, Fresno, Ca. 1940

[Scott Pitta]

well, that pic did not work.

[houston]

well, that pic did not work.
Post under "Go Advanced" and not "Quick Reply." Click the paper clip that is between the smiley face and the left arrow. Upload the file from your pc.

[Scott Pitta]

One more try on uploading a pic