View Full Version : Jesus fulfillment of the law
good samaritan
08-12-2014, 09:24 PM
I am not sure how this all comes together, but I believe every ceremonial law is fulfilled in our redemptive process. This isn't to prove a tithing point. I just believe the tithe, firstfruits, Passover, etc. , all have fulfillment through Jesus Christ in the NT. I believe we need to search the scriptures to find it.
Ezk. 48:14 And they shall not sell of it, neither exchange, nor alienate the first fruits of the land :for it is holy unto the Lord. OT
Ja. 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures NT
good samaritan
08-12-2014, 09:36 PM
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
I am making a compilation of OT types and shadows and OT fulfillment in the NT. It is so awesome how precise that God is. It is so faith building to see how God had a plan for every law and ordinance to be fulfilled through Jesus Christ and His Church. God does care about details.
Praxeas
08-13-2014, 12:46 AM
Was this supposed to be about prayer? This is mostly for prayer requests. Let me know and I can move it for you :-)
Aquila
08-13-2014, 07:06 AM
Christ fulfilled the Law in it's entirety for the believer. However, the law wasn't abolished. The law still stands to condemn those who do not trust in Christ.
KeptByTheWord
08-13-2014, 08:42 AM
I have done some studying of the Tabernacle and how it was a complete type and shadow of Christ. It is quite clear the Tabernacle is a beautiful picture of Christ given to those who could see and understand.
There are quite a few good books out there on that subject. I found one at a thrift store written back in the 60s. It is an excellent book on the subject. I can't remember the name of it, but I could go dig it up if you would like to know.
I also know that there is a book at the Pentecostal Publishing House that is also written on the types and shadows of the Tabernacle.
KeptByTheWord
08-13-2014, 08:54 AM
Here is a good article on the subject of "How does tithing fit into the type and shadows of the OT?"
http://www.heart-talks.com/truth20.html
Here is another one...
http://tithingtruth.com/general-article/8-first-fruits-tithes-and-offerings
KeptByTheWord
08-13-2014, 09:01 AM
Another article yet on the subject:
http://freebelievers.com/article/tithing-is-not-a-christian-doctrine
good samaritan
08-13-2014, 09:17 AM
Thanks kbtw for the links. In a way you can look at all the law as being prophetic cause I believe every minute detail was leading us to Jesus. So many people love prophecy, but we so often miss things in the law that that are prophetic of Jesus and the Church.
Another article yet on the subject:
http://freebelievers.com/article/tithing-is-not-a-christian-doctrine
Thank you for sharing this article...I wish it could go viral
good samaritan
08-13-2014, 12:54 PM
This thread wasn't supposed to be in prayer room. I am sorry if it can be moved to the fellowship it would be greatly appreciated. Sorry.
FlamingZword
08-13-2014, 01:19 PM
I am making a compilation of OT types and shadows and OT fulfillment in the NT. It is so awesome how precise that God is. It is so faith building to see how God had a plan for every law and ordinance to be fulfilled through Jesus Christ and His Church. God does care about details.
That is a major undertaking, there are hundredths, perhaps over a thousand types and shadows of Jesus Christ in the OT. The more you study them, the more of them you see. They are all over the OT. :icecream
KeptByTheWord
08-14-2014, 06:31 PM
I have found that the types and shadows especially concerning the OT law and Tabernacle can find fulfillment in Jesus. That in itself reveals that the OT contains more of the gospel than we realize, but it is not easily visible or even easily understood at first glance.
Study the life of Joseph, for example. I have studied the comparison of the life of Joseph to the life of Jesus. It is an incredibly beautiful picture of how God orchestrated the life of Joseph to parallel the life of Jesus.
mfblume
08-16-2014, 05:29 PM
Christ fulfilled the Law in it's entirety for the believer. However, the law wasn't abolished. The law still stands to condemn those who do not trust in Christ.
How can that be true if the Law is written to them who are under the Law, namely Israel? I used to claim the same thing you stated, but reconsidered it after reading Romans 3. We also read that people without the law are a law unto themselves, implying distinction for responsibility for the law of Moses.
mfblume
08-16-2014, 05:31 PM
Why is this under the prayer section of the forum? It's a good thread, but folks who want info on this won't find it since it's here. Come on, folks, get with putting things in the correct section! lol
good samaritan
08-16-2014, 06:35 PM
Please move this thread to fellowship hall
good samaritan
08-24-2014, 01:02 AM
1Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
It is interesting the KJV says they were saved "by" water, instead of being saved "from" water. I always thought that Noah's family was saved by the ark, but it seems they may have been saved by the water. Just a thought: the whole world was wicked, except Noah's family. God destroys the whole world with water, thus sparing Noah from that sinful world he lived.
Just as the flood covered the entirety of the whole sinful world we are immersed or covered by water in baptism covering our old sinful nature.
Amen brother, water baptism saves us in many ways, here are just a couple of those examples...
Romans 6
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Water baptism declares us "dead" to sin and also according to verse 7, has caused us to be "FREE" from sin. Because of baptism, we have the ability say "NO' to sin, when temptation comes.(as long as our old nature remains on its' cross)
Aquila
08-25-2014, 08:35 AM
How can that be true if the Law is written to them who are under the Law, namely Israel? I used to claim the same thing you stated, but reconsidered it after reading Romans 3. We also read that people without the law are a law unto themselves, implying distinction for responsibility for the law of Moses.
Interesting, I'll have to look into it.
I've always believed that there is a universal moral Law of God (the Ten Commandments) and the Law of Moses (given to Israel).
With this in mind, I was taught that Christ fulfilled the Law (Ten Commandments & the Law of Moses) for the believer. However, the Ten Commandments still stand to condemn the sinner.
Interesting, I'll have to look into it.
I've always believed that there is a universal moral Law of God (the Ten Commandments) and the Law of Moses (given to Israel).
With this in mind, I was taught that Christ fulfilled the Law (Ten Commandments & the Law of Moses) for the believer. However, the Ten Commandments still stand to condemn the sinner.
Brother, the Law is still waiting to judge us if our OLD MAN is allowed off the cross. What I mean is, you and I could place ourselves right back under the law TODAY, if we let our old nature reign. That is why we can only be out from under the law by "walking in the Spirit" and bearing the "fruits of the Spirit", according to Gal 5....
Brother, the Law, led us to Jesus, but it has not gone away. It is there to judge the "carnal believer"
good samaritan
08-25-2014, 10:30 AM
I preached yesterday About Noah. Noah found grace in the eyes of God when the whole world was filled with violence. How? Was Noah perfect? No, matter of fact not long after getting of the ark he pulls a drunk. What was different with Noah? his faith. By faith Noah was obedient to God's instructions to build a ark even though it probably didn't make since to him at the time.
We are not bound to a OT law, but true faith requires obedience to God. God still has expectations for us, but living under grace makes it more personal and one on one. Israel served the "laws" of God like we do with are US legal system, the church obeys God like a son does to a father.
Our relationship to God has changed, but God hasn't changed. He still is as holy as he was from the creation and still wants us seek to be pleasing to him.
Aquila
08-25-2014, 10:36 AM
Brother, the Law is still waiting to judge us if our OLD MAN is allowed off the cross. What I mean is, you and I could place ourselves right back under the law TODAY, if we let our old nature reign. That is why we can only be out from under the law by "walking in the Spirit" and bearing the "fruits of the Spirit", according to Gal 5....
Brother, the Law, led us to Jesus, but it has not gone away. It is there to judge the "carnal believer"
Your post begs a question...
And how would you know that you're not carnal?
Your post begs a question...
And how would you know that you're not carnal?
Thats the million dollar question brother, your measuring stick is this.....Gal 5
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.(implying only if we are led of the Spirit)
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.(these folks are not Spirit led and are therefore under the Law)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. Bro., just bear these fruits and you are officially "walking in the Spirit", and not under ANY of the Law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
The question here we must ask is...do we ourselves "BEAR" the fruit of the Spirit? If so, we are walking in the Spirit, and NOT carnal, and FREE from the Law.
KeptByTheWord
08-25-2014, 03:58 PM
Gal. 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
I love this scripture. So simple! Being led of the spirit means that we are not under the law, but the Law is in us, because Jesus became the law, and His spirit is the law working in us. An amazing revelation, and concept!
The question here we must ask is...do we ourselves "BEAR" the fruit of the Spirit? If so, we are walking in the Spirit, and NOT carnal, and FREE from the Law.
Indeed. If the Spirit of Jesus who is now the law indwells us, the fruit of the spirit will be the natural outcome of that indwelling spirit within us.
Aquila
08-26-2014, 07:02 AM
Thats the million dollar question brother, your measuring stick is this.....Gal 5
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.(implying only if we are led of the Spirit)
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.(these folks are not Spirit led and are therefore under the Law)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. Bro., just bear these fruits and you are officially "walking in the Spirit", and not under ANY of the Law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
The question here we must ask is...do we ourselves "BEAR" the fruit of the Spirit? If so, we are walking in the Spirit, and NOT carnal, and FREE from the Law.
But aren't there people of other faiths that are loving, joyful, peaceful, longsuffering, gentle, good, and faithful? Are they led of the Spirit?
But aren't there people of other faiths that are loving, joyful, peaceful, longsuffering, gentle, good, and faithful? Are they led of the Spirit?
Good question, I believe a person can be Spirit filled, but here is an attribute of having the Holy Spirit, that is not mentioned here above...... John 16:13
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
We must realize that Paul, wrote to the Galatian church, knowing that they had the FULL truth, with him as their personal coach. Folks these days are having a problem with OBEYING the Spirit of Truth right out the gate...
Can we walk in the Spirit and our foundational teachings be a LIE?...We see it everywhere now, but be assured that the Holy Ghost is battling with self willed individuals of ALL faiths, including our own, about the sin of false doctrine(lying) as we speak. If we are teaching or believing false doctrine, we are walking(limping) in the Spirit as a cripple on spiritual crutches....
good samaritan
08-26-2014, 07:58 AM
Cornelius was a devout man who prayed and gave alms. By definition he had fruit of the Spirit in his life, but yet he didn't have the Spirit. That is why I believe many ultra cons and libs both miss it. One group overemphasizes the outside and the other group only emphasizes the inside. We can do good things and not have Jesus, but I need to have Jesus and that gives so much more meaning to doing good things.
Cornelius was a devout man who prayed and gave alms. By definition he had fruit of the Spirit in his life, but yet he didn't have the Spirit. That is why I believe many ultra cons and libs both miss it. One group overemphasizes the outside and the other group only emphasizes the inside. We can do good things and not have Jesus, but I need to have Jesus and that gives so much more meaning to doing good things.
Just an interesting thought bro. Cornelius was a GENTILE, doing works of the Law and God honored it. It(Law) was, for a GENTILE, a schoolmaster that led him to Christ.
KeptByTheWord
08-27-2014, 10:31 AM
I've been reading through the book of Deuteronomy. I'm so thankful that Jesus became the law for me! Trying to understand and remember the various and sundry laws that the Israelites had to partake of certainly was cumbersome, yet they had awesome promises from the Lord to go along with that. I'm thankful that today, Jesus is the law that reigns in my life, and His spirit indwelling me, along with the written Word teaches me from moment to moment, day to day how to live.
Aquila
08-28-2014, 10:22 AM
How can that be true if the Law is written to them who are under the Law, namely Israel? I used to claim the same thing you stated, but reconsidered it after reading Romans 3. We also read that people without the law are a law unto themselves, implying distinction for responsibility for the law of Moses.
I believe that within "the law" we have the "Law of God" and the "Law of Moses".
*Law of God = The Ten Commandments; an eternal moral law that defines sin and is also reflected in every man's conscience. It was written by God on tables of stone and codified for ancient Israel. It was also placed inside the Ark of the Covenant.
*Law of Moses = The ethical, social, ceremonial, judicial law given specifically to Israel by Moses. Placed in a compartment on the side of the Ark of the Covenant. This law contains types and shadows that point to the work of Christ.
Christ "fulfilled" the entire law (Law of God and Law of Moses) for the born again believer. However, the Law of God (the Ten Commandments) wasn't "abolished". It still stands to convict of sin and drive men who seek forgiveness to Christ. It also still stands to condemn the wicked in the day of Judgment.
The born again believer is under grace. While the Law was fulfilled in Christ as it relates to the born again believer, the born again believer isn't without a law. The born again believer is bound by a higher law that captures the very essence of the Law of God and goes beyond it. This is known as the Law of Love... or the Law of Christ. This law contains only one commandment... love. This single commandment is expressed in two commandments:
*Love God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength.
*Love your neighbor as yourself.
By loving God with all our being and then demonstrating our love for God by loving others as ourselves we fulfill the very spirit and intent of the Law.
Romans 13:8-10 (ESV)
8 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
mfblume
09-01-2014, 09:30 AM
I believe that within "the law" we have the "Law of God" and the "Law of Moses".
*Law of God = The Ten Commandments; an eternal moral law that defines sin and is also reflected in every man's conscience. It was written by God on tables of stone and codified for ancient Israel. It was also placed inside the Ark of the Covenant.
*Law of Moses = The ethical, social, ceremonial, judicial law given specifically to Israel by Moses. Placed in a compartment on the side of the Ark of the Covenant. This law contains types and shadows that point to the work of Christ.
Again, I also used to believe that as well, but learned that the Law of God and the Law of Moses are one and the same. The law was written and engraved on stones, and is called the law of sin and death, and is directly associated with Moses as the personaification in ministry of that law. That is the ten commandments. Paul said in 2 Cor 3 that the law written and engraved on stones was the ministration of death and is NOT administered to in the New Testament.
2Co 3:3 KJV Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
2Co 3:7-11 KJV But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: (8) How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? (9) For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. (10) For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. (11) For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
It was done away with.... the ministration of death and condemnation was known as the ten commandments and law in general. There is no distinction between law of Moses and law of God. And Paul plainly stated it is done away. And the New Covenant administers life and Spirit. the ten commandments were so inextricably linked to Law of Moses, that Moses is said to stand in figure as the entire concept of ten commandments written in stone and his face shining stands for the glory of that law. Paul said the fact that Israel could not see the light fade from his face stands in type for the Jews not knowing the LAW would END.
Paul's writings above make it clear that Law of Moses is Law of God.
Christ "fulfilled" the entire law (Law of God and Law of Moses) for the born again believer. However, the Law of God (the Ten Commandments) wasn't "abolished". It still stands to convict of sin and drive men who seek forgiveness to Christ. It also still stands to condemn the wicked in the day of Judgment.
I disagree. The ten commandments were the subject of the Law in 2 Cor 3 and was said to be done away. But that does not mean the righteousness of that law is not what God looks for any more. It is a righteousness that cannot be imputed through commanding obedience to rules, though. That's the only difference. The righteousness of the Law of Moses/God is still what God wants in us. Paul told Timothy that the end or purpose of the law was to establish righteousness in our hearts.
1Ti 1:5 KJV Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
But Paul told about how that Law failed to accomplish that.
Rom 8:3-4 KJV For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: (4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
And later in 1 Tim 1, Paul said the same thing about how GRACE did what LAW could not do.
1Ti 1:14 KJV And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
The very faith and love that law tried to put within man, which amounts to the righteousness of the law, could not be accomplished in us by law. But grace was full of the very same thing Law tried to produce. So the entire concept of commanding man to obey the ten commandments in order to be righteous DOES NOT NOR WILL NOT WORK. This is because of the flesh that makes the law weak, as Romans 8:3 says. SO, because the flesh makes law weak, and the only way to keep a commanding law is to utilize flesh to make yourself obey it, the entire concept of LAW in that fashion (whether it be ten commandments on stone, of God or of Moses) HAD TO GO. ANOTHER MEANS had to exist for the same goal of righteousness to be put within us. And that means is grace through faith.
So, we cannot say the righteousness of the law was done away with. Just the law itself. Even the ten commandments. Not because the commandments are evil or wrong, but because the entire ball of wax of trying to obey a law is a fleshly means to a good end. It is called walking after the flesh. To read and obey the law written on stones of the tablets from Moses' hands is to walk after the flesh. But to believe God to impute the very same righteousness to us through faith relies on God's power to cause us to have and obey that righteousness. And that is called walking after the Spirit and it takes faith and prayer.
The law of God is the Law of Moses is the ten commandments. The bible treats them synonymously. And someone came up with a distinction that is not in the bible itself.
The born again believer is under grace. While the Law was fulfilled in Christ as it relates to the born again believer, the born again believer isn't without a law.
Agreed. We have the Law of the Spirit of Life which causes us, if we abide by it through faith and prayer found in Rom 6:13, to keep the very same righteousness that Law tried but failed to cause us to keep.
The born again believer is bound by a higher law that captures the very essence of the Law of God and goes beyond it. This is known as the Law of Love... or the Law of Christ. This law contains only one commandment... love. This single commandment is expressed in two commandments:
*Love God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength.
*Love your neighbor as yourself.
By loving God with all our being and then demonstrating our love for God by loving others as ourselves we fulfill the very spirit and intent of the Law.
Romans 13:8-10 (ESV)
8 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Amen to all your last section here.
mfblume
09-01-2014, 09:32 AM
Just an interesting thought bro. Cornelius was a GENTILE, doing works of the Law and God honored it. It(Law) was, for a GENTILE, a schoolmaster that led him to Christ.
I believe that is incorrect. Gal chs. 3 -4 rebuked the congregation for being gentiles who reverted to the law that was only meant to be a schoolmaster to bring JEWS to Christ. After Christ came, the JEWS were no longer under a schoolmaster. He rebuked the gentile believers for going under what was only for Israel to bring Israel to Christ. So how could law be a schoolmaster to bring gentiles to Christ? Any gentile who actually kept law was no longer a gentile but a Jew. Like Ruth, Rahab and many others in the Old Testament who were gentiles that became Jews.
So, if Cornelius was keeping law then he was not a gentile!
good samaritan
09-01-2014, 06:05 PM
I am jumping in here just to ask a question. Was all of the law given by God or did some if it come through Moses directions alone.
Mark 10:4 And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away. 5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. 6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. 7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; 8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. 9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder
I believe that is incorrect. Gal chs. 3 -4 rebuked the congregation for being gentiles who reverted to the law that was only meant to be a schoolmaster to bring JEWS to Christ. After Christ came, the JEWS were no longer under a schoolmaster. He rebuked the gentile believers for going under what was only for Israel to bring Israel to Christ. So how could law be a schoolmaster to bring gentiles to Christ? Any gentile who actually kept law was no longer a gentile but a Jew. Like Ruth, Rahab and many others in the Old Testament who were gentiles that became Jews.
So, if Cornelius was keeping law then he was not a gentile!
Mike, the book of Galatians was written to Jew and Gentile believer alike. With that in mind, it can be OUR epistle also. The unwritten Law is imbedded into every soul that is on the earth...
.Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law(written Law): and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law(written Law); 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified(written Law). 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law(written Law)n, these, having not the law(written Law), are a law unto themselves: 15 which shew the work of the law written in their hearts(unwritten Law), their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
Cornelius just followed his conscience, which had the Law written in it. He did not need the written Law to convict him. He was convicted by it(unwritten Law) without even being converted into Judaism
mfblume
09-02-2014, 09:59 PM
Mike, the book of Galatians was written to Jew and Gentile believer alike. With that in mind, it can be OUR epistle also. The unwritten Law is imbedded into every soul that is on the earth...
Of course it is for everyone. That is a given. But the OUR and YOU contrast in Gal 3 through 4 shows Paul speaking of himself and other Jews as the ones under Law, not the gentiles to whom he wrote there, who were distinguished by the term YE and YOU in chapter 4. Chapter 4 distinctly shows Gentiles under bondage to idols before they knew Christ while Jews were under bondage to Law before they found Christ. And chapter 4 says the gentiles freed from one form of bondage under idols were going under another form of bondage under law that the Jews used to be under, but Jews were not even under that any more. It is a clear contrast between Gentile believers and Jewish believers in the church.
The days, months and years of Chapter 4 that were kept by Galatians and worried Paul were Hebrew sabbaths, months and feasts, etc.
.Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law(written Law): and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law(written Law); 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified(written Law). 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law(written Law)n, these, having not the law(written Law), are a law unto themselves: 15 which shew the work of the law written in their hearts(unwritten Law), their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
Cornelius just followed his conscience, which had the Law written in it. He did not need the written Law to convict him. He was convicted by it(unwritten Law) without even being converted into Judaism
Then Cornelius was not following Law of Israel.
Of course it is for everyone. That is a given. But the OUR and YOU contrast in Gal 3 through 4 shows Paul speaking of himself and other Jews as the ones under Law, not the gentiles to whom he wrote there, who were distinguished by the term YE and YOU in chapter 4. Chapter 4 distinctly shows Gentiles under bondage to idols before they knew Christ while Jews were under bondage to Law before they found Christ. And chapter 4 says the gentiles freed from one form of bondage under idols were going under another form of bondage under law that the Jews used to be under, but Jews were not even under that any more. It is a clear contrast between Gentile believers and Jewish believers in the church.
The days, months and years of Chapter 4 that were kept by Galatians and worried Paul were Hebrew sabbaths, months and feasts, etc.
I know that bro., I hope I didnt indicate otherwise,
Mike, my point of Cornelius is, he was considered under the "unwritten Law" in post 31.
Then Cornelius was not following Law of Israel.
This "unwritten Law" makes Gentiles equally guilty before God as does the Jews with the "written law(aka,,,O.T.)...
Rom 2:8 but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 for there is no respect of persons with God.........
Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law(written Law): and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law(written Law); 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified(written Law). 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law(written Law)n, these, having not the law(written Law), are a law unto themselves: 15 which shew the work of the law written in their hearts(unwritten Law), their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.
mfblume
09-03-2014, 07:19 PM
This "unwritten Law" makes Gentiles equally guilty before God as does the Jews with the "written law(aka,,,O.T.)...
Rom 2:8 but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 for there is no respect of persons with God.........
Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law(written Law): and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law(written Law); 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified(written Law). 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law(written Law)n, these, having not the law(written Law), are a law unto themselves: 15 which shew the work of the law written in their hearts(unwritten Law), their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.
OK, thanks for clarifying that. I agree.
OK, thanks for clarifying that. I agree.
Mike, many of us are like Cornelius these days. We become exposed to the 10 commandments at some point in our lives(Law), and the unwritten Law becomes the Written Law to lead us to repentance and ultimately to Christ.
I was Catholic, they taught me the 10 commandments, I disobeyed them and God convicted me of my sins against them. Everything that I did in those days FORBID me to read the bible...LOL. I used to think that what I did not know wont hurt me...LOL. I can personally attest that the Law was MY schoolmaster to lead me to Christ, yet I was not a Jew and knew nothing of Judaism.
The Jewish religion was everywhere in the 1st century, and practicing Jews and temples were visible in every major city of Europe. God, no doubt was teaching those that had the UNWRITTEN LAW to understand the WRITTEN LAW, just by association with the Jews. That is how Cornelius was convicted.(Cornelius is a type of you and I)
As a side note....I can see the "unwritten law". in part, laced in every major religion in the world in some ways...God is trying to familiarize the pagan with the eventuality of the "written Law"(O.T.) to bring them to Christ also.
mfblume
09-07-2014, 09:31 AM
The “Law of God” refers to the same thing as the “Law of Moses.” Some people think there is a difference but there is not (compare Joshua 8:31 with Joshua 24:26).
Joshua 8:31 KJV As Moses the servant of the LORD commanded the children of Israel, as it is written in the book of the law of Moses, an altar of whole stones, over which no man hath lift up any iron: and they offered thereon burnt offerings unto the LORD, and sacrificed peace offerings.
Joshua 24:26 KJV And Joshua wrote these words in the book of the law of God, and took a great stone, and set it up there under an oak, that was by the sanctuary of the LORD.
The “Law of God” refers to the same thing as the “Law of Moses.” Some people think there is a difference but there is not (compare Joshua 8:31 with Joshua 24:26).
Joshua 8:31 KJV As Moses the servant of the LORD commanded the children of Israel, as it is written in the book of the law of Moses, an altar of whole stones, over which no man hath lift up any iron: and they offered thereon burnt offerings unto the LORD, and sacrificed peace offerings.
Joshua 24:26 KJV And Joshua wrote these words in the book of the law of God, and took a great stone, and set it up there under an oak, that was by the sanctuary of the LORD.
Mike, I think you and I are on the same page here. I personally believe the ENTIRE old Testament was considered "the Law", when Paul wrote about it most of the time(unless addressing specific subjects).
Folks these days, including my SFT chart have divided up the O.T. to try to explain it. But the reality is..its ALL the Law. For example look at all the "targeted" commands(Laws) that God gives throughout the other books of the O.T., like Malachi etc.
mfblume
09-12-2014, 07:29 PM
Mike, I think you and I are on the same page here. I personally believe the ENTIRE old Testament was considered "the Law", when Paul wrote about it most of the time(unless addressing specific subjects).
Folks these days, including my SFT chart have divided up the O.T. to try to explain it. But the reality is..its ALL the Law. For example look at all the "targeted" commands(Laws) that God gives throughout the other books of the O.T., like Malachi etc.
Amen. If a person studies the epistles of Paul alone on this issue, there is no way one would think the Law of God and the Law of Moses are two different things.
FlamingZword
09-12-2014, 09:04 PM
Amen. If a person studies the epistles of Paul alone on this issue, there is no way one would think the Law of God and the Law of Moses are two different things.
Oh No, I am about to jump into a quagmire, please someone stop me. :hypercoffee
Of course I disagree with you and Sean regarding this issue.
I do believe there is a division between the Law of God and the Law of Moses.
The Law of Moses was composed of the ceremonial laws, and all those sundry laws.
The Law of God specifically was composed of the Ten Commandments.
Of course the Law of God encompassed the Law of Moses and the Ten commandants.
The Ten commandments was the core of the Law of God, while the law of Moses was the outer part of the law of God.
When Jesus came, he did away with the external part of the Law of God, which were the ceremonial laws and left only the core of the Law for our guidance.
Actually The new Testament enhances the Ten Commandments and elevates them even higher.
mfblume
09-13-2014, 08:57 AM
Oh No, I am about to jump into a quagmire, please someone stop me. :hypercoffee
Of course I disagree with you and Sean regarding this issue.
I do believe there is a division between the Law of God and the Law of Moses.
The Law of Moses was composed of the ceremonial laws, and all those sundry laws.
The Law of God specifically was composed of the Ten Commandments.
Of course the Law of God encompassed the Law of Moses and the Ten commandants.
The Ten commandments was the core of the Law of God, while the law of Moses was the outer part of the law of God.
When Jesus came, he did away with the external part of the Law of God, which were the ceremonial laws and left only the core of the Law for our guidance.
Actually The new Testament enhances the Ten Commandments and elevates them even higher.
I've heard that claim but find in biblical precedence for it.
FlamingZword
09-13-2014, 10:50 AM
I've heard that claim but find in biblical precedence for it.
For the moment I will resist the urge to enter into this tar pit. :heeheehee
I am busy with other things right now, however I will eventually create and put a study on it and post it in my web page.
I shall strive to answer all the objections to keeping the Law of God.
"If you Love me keep my [Ten] Commandments"
mfblume
09-13-2014, 11:51 AM
For the moment I will resist the urge to enter into this tar pit. :heeheehee
I am busy with other things right now, however I will eventually create and put a study on it and post it in my web page.
I shall strive to answer all the objections to keeping the Law of God.
"If you Love me keep my [Ten] Commandments"
You and I know each others' spirits. So please take this as my sincere beliefs and see what you think.
Paul described the Ten Commandments as the ministration of death and condemnation, and distinguished the Ten Commandments as so by speaking of the Law written and engraved on stone.
2 Corinthians 3:3-10 KJV (3) Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. (4) And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: (5) Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; (6) Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. (7) But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: (8) How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? (9) For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. (10) For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
We read that the COMMANDMENTS, obviously including the TEN, are noted as being abolished.
Ephesians 2:15 KJV Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
But here is my major concern. Not sure if you propose this or not, but many who propose that there is a distinction between the Law of Moses and the Law of God claim that Paul only preached against the LAW that was distorted by Pharisees in the first century and not the Law as we find it in the Old Testament. I disagree.
Paul spoke of the Law that Moses related to the Israelites.
The works of the Law were works that Law actually proposed would make one righteous if one obeyed them.
Deuteronomy 6:25 KJV And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.
Paul taught that was impossible.
Acts 13:39 KJV And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Flamingsword, I am not sure what beliefs you hold about this issue, so when I speak of the distorted Law that many sabbath keepers claim was the subject of Paul's coercion to not keep Law, I am not sure if it addresses anything you might believe or not. But I have to explain this to get to my point about no distinction between Law of Moses and Law of God.
The LAW that Paul spoke to the Galatians about was not a twisted version of Old Covenant Law. It was genuine and correct Law from old testament.
Galatians 3:10-12 KJV For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. (11) But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. (12) And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Paul spoke of LAW being purposed by God to justify us. Paul said it cannot work. But God instituted it that way for them to attempt it because it was a schoolmaster to teach them a hard lesson-- one cannot make oneself righteous.
In verse 13, Paul said that we were redeemed from the Law. That would not refer to a twisted version of it, or else Paul would have had to list every twisted sect and religious tenet there was in order to say what we were redeemed from. The nature of his use of the law in reference to being redeemed from it implies that it is the genuine Law from old times he referred to.
Galatians 3:13 KJV Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Jesus would not have been made a curse for us if the actual and genuine Law of old did not decree us accursed. He became a curse for us because Law claimed we were a curse.
Then we read that Abraham's promise was given and followed by LAW. That LAW did not disannul the promise. Again, Paul spoke of LAW here as though it was OF GOD, and he would not have done so had his reference to LAW not been the genuine one from God but a distortion. Nothing needs be explain to defend the TRUTH of Grace in contrast to a twisted version of LAW, because a distortion is nothing to regard, anyway. But the genuine LAW from God would require such an explanation regarding grace.
So, all of this proves that the LAW that Galatians were told to not keep was the genuine Law of God. Context demands it in Gal. 3.
When Paul quoted Deut 27:26, he was substantiating what LAW he was encouraging the Galatians to stop keeping. He could not be speaking about a perversion of Law by the pharisees if he quoted Deut and claimed that that law was his subject.
More...
mfblume
09-13-2014, 12:30 PM
I've heard that claim but find in biblical precedence for it.
"but find no biblical precedence for it," I mean. :)
Mike, you may know this about the way I teach and believe regarding this subject...I believe that the Law is abolished, including the 10 commandments, as you have stated above, for the BORN AGAIN BELIEVER ONLY. Those that are not born again are still under the Law and will be judged by it(whether written or unwritten, whatever they have been exposed to in their lifetime).
A popular teaching that is in our circles is "partial Law". It is being taught in many of our churches today and is contrary to the teachings of Paul. This is why the Messianic movement has gained so much ground these days. They see the errors and controdictions we have with Paul regarding this subject. My concept puts their theology to rest, allowing the Law to remain in effect..(but only to non born again folks)
My concept is irrefutable to those folks. It is the solution to those that see the contradictions also.
mfblume
09-14-2014, 09:34 AM
Amen, Sean,
Flamingsword, let me ask you some questions so I can respond adequately to your belief. Again, I am not here to slam or ridicule you for any difference you might have. Let's just discuss this in a wonderful manner for seeking truth.
How does the Bible distinguish the Ten Commandments Moses from the Ceremonial Law? What evidence is there to suggest such a thing?
For instance, have you proposed that the Commandments were on STONE while the Ceremonial Law was IN A BOOK? I ask that because I heard of that reason before.
Also, is the distinction evident from the Commandments being put IN the ark and the Ceremonial aw being put on the side of the ark?
I think you believe the ceremonial law was nailed to the cross bu the ten commandments are in force forever, right?
I will address these issues for your consideration.
FlamingZword
09-14-2014, 10:21 AM
Amen, Sean,
Flamingsword, let me ask you some questions so I can respond adequately to your belief. Again, I am not here to slam or ridicule you for any difference you might have. Let's just discuss this in a wonderful manner for seeking truth.
How does the Bible distinguish the Ten Commandments Moses from the Ceremonial Law? What evidence is there to suggest such a thing?
For instance, have you proposed that the Commandments were on STONE while the Ceremonial Law was IN A BOOK? I ask that because I heard of that reason before.
Also, is the distinction evident from the Commandments being put IN the ark and the Ceremonial aw being put on the side of the ark?
I think you believe the ceremonial law was nailed to the cross bu the ten commandments are in force forever, right?
I will address these issues for your consideration.
OK I am being dragged into this, I shall only spend a couple of rounds on this issue, since I am really busy with other things at this moment.
The Ten Commandments were audibly spoken by God himself, while the rest of the Law of Moses was only spoken or given to Moses.
The Ten Commandments were written in tables of stone, while the rest of the law of Moses was written in scrolls.
The Jews themselves had a division they called the Ten Commandments, "Aseret ha-Dibrot", which clearly set the Ten Commandments apart from the Law of Moses.
In the New Testament, Jesus himself quoted the Ten Commandments many times.
Jesus reaffirmed that the greatest commandment was the first.
"Hear oh Israel the Lord thy God is one, and you shall love the Lord...."
Jesus did not say, oh by the way, this commandment will be done away with.
If the Ten Commandments have been done away with then we no longer need to believe that God is one, or love him as he commanded.
If the Ten commandments are done away with, now we can commit adultery, we can murder, we can steal, we can dishonor our parents and so on. For where there is no law there can be no transgression for a transgression is the breaking of the Law.
I could go on and on for about 10 pages more, but this should be enough to give a hint of how I believe and teach.
mfblume
09-14-2014, 10:42 AM
OK I am being dragged into this, I shall only spend a couple of rounds on this issue, since I am really busy with other things at this moment.
The Ten Commandments were audibly spoken by God himself, while the rest of the Law of Moses was only spoken or given to Moses.
The Ten Commandments were written in tables of stone, while the rest of the law of Moses was written in scrolls.
The Jews themselves had a division they called the Ten Commandments, "Aseret ha-Dibrot", which clearly set the Ten Commandments apart from the Law of Moses.
In the New Testament, Jesus himself quoted the Ten Commandments many times.
Jesus reaffirmed that the greatest commandment was the first.
"Hear oh Israel the Lord thy God is one, and you shall love the Lord...."
Jesus did not say, oh by the way, this commandment will be done away with.
If the Ten Commandments have been done away with then we no longer need to believe that God is one, or love him as he commanded.
If the Ten commandments are done away with, now we can commit adultery, we can murder, we can steal, we can dishonor our parents and so on. For where there is no law there can be no transgression for a transgression is the breaking of the Law.
I could go on and on for about 10 pages more, but this should be enough to give a hint of how I believe and teach.
Ok, thanks. I will get back with responses for your thoughts. Don't feel like being dragged into anything. It'[s just good to discuss these things since I am aware that this issue is a major distinction amongst many apostolics.
MarieA27
09-14-2014, 04:25 PM
OK I am being dragged into this, I shall only spend a couple of rounds on this issue, since I am really busy with other things at this moment.
The Ten Commandments were audibly spoken by God himself, while the rest of the Law of Moses was only spoken or given to Moses.
The Ten Commandments were written in tables of stone, while the rest of the law of Moses was written in scrolls.
The Jews themselves had a division they called the Ten Commandments, "Aseret ha-Dibrot", which clearly set the Ten Commandments apart from the Law of Moses.
In the New Testament, Jesus himself quoted the Ten Commandments many times.
Jesus reaffirmed that the greatest commandment was the first.
"Hear oh Israel the Lord thy God is one, and you shall love the Lord...."
Jesus did not say, oh by the way, this commandment will be done away with.
If the Ten Commandments have been done away with then we no longer need to believe that God is one, or love him as he commanded.
If the Ten commandments are done away with, now we can commit adultery, we can murder, we can steal, we can dishonor our parents and so on. For where there is no law there can be no transgression for a transgression is the breaking of the Law.
I could go on and on for about 10 pages more, but this should be enough to give a hint of how I believe and teach.
Actually, (if I may jump in here right quick then jump back out), when Jesus was asked what commandments that we were to keep, he only named 6 out of the 10:
Matt 19: 16-19
And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
And when asked what are the first commandment He only named these two:
Mark 12:28-31
28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
There was no mention of any Sabbath day or such for us to keep in this generation.
OK I am being dragged into this, I shall only spend a couple of rounds on this issue, since I am really busy with other things at this moment.
The Ten Commandments were audibly spoken by God himself, while the rest of the Law of Moses was only spoken or given to Moses.
The Ten Commandments were written in tables of stone, while the rest of the law of Moses was written in scrolls.
The Jews themselves had a division they called the Ten Commandments, "Aseret ha-Dibrot", which clearly set the Ten Commandments apart from the Law of Moses.
In the New Testament, Jesus himself quoted the Ten Commandments many times.
Jesus reaffirmed that the greatest commandment was the first.
"Hear oh Israel the Lord thy God is one, and you shall love the Lord...."
Jesus did not say, oh by the way, this commandment will be done away with.
If the Ten Commandments have been done away with then we no longer need to believe that God is one, or love him as he commanded.
If the Ten commandments are done away with, now we can commit adultery, we can murder, we can steal, we can dishonor our parents and so on. For where there is no law there can be no transgression for a transgression is the breaking of the Law.
I could go on and on for about 10 pages more, but this should be enough to give a hint of how I believe and teach.
Brother, if I may reply to your post here, our "replacement" for the commandments that are "written in stone" is this.....Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Now, if we refuse to walk in the spirit as needed here....16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law......If you are led of the Spirit, you will bear the fruit of the Spirit and will need no longer to be ruled by the Law.
....Then, if we backslide, the Law applies to us because of this(our old man leaves the cross and takes control).....19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
If we are not walking in the Spirit, led by the Spirit and bearing the fruit of the Spirit, we then need a set of written laws(to keep us in line). We are out of control spiritually and are bordering on, if not completely falling back under the Law.
2 Cor 3:3 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you? 2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: 3 forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
Notice that Paul is saying the Saints are the epistles now...not the 10 commandments. Look what must be done now with the 10....
4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: 5 not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 6 who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, : but of the spiritfor the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones,(10 commandments) was [U]glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away
The "glorious" 10 commandments were to be done away.
: 8 how shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory(10 commandments), much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.(the GLORY of the Spirit overshadows the commandments as if they never had ANY glory here)
11 For if that which is done away(10 commandments) was glorious(past tense), much more that which remaineth is glorious.
If we are WALKING IN THE SPIRIT, we are subject to the PRESENT GLORY....if not, then we are subject to the FORMER GLORY, which was done away...(only for the believer, not the sinner though) The sinner is not "in the Spirit" like we are, and therefore under the 10 commandments.
mfblume
09-20-2014, 05:39 PM
Actually, (if I may jump in here right quick then jump back out), when Jesus was asked what commandments that we were to keep, he only named 6 out of the 10:
Matt 19: 16-19
And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
And when asked what are the first commandment He only named these two:
Mark 12:28-31
28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
There was no mention of any Sabbath day or such for us to keep in this generation.
I agree. Jesus never told anyone to keep the sabbath day but said he was the sabbath in essence. "I will give you rest."
I still have to answer flamingsword. Have not forgotten!
FlamingZword
09-20-2014, 10:12 PM
I agree. Jesus never told anyone to keep the sabbath day but said he was the sabbath in essence. "I will give you rest."
I still have to answer flamingsword. Have not forgotten!
Dear Bro Blume
I really wish I had the time to engage in this debate, but it would take too long, however I will keep it in mind for a later project.
Right now I am engaged in a number of projects that I want to finish.
ironically one of the projects is to create a series of Spanish studies on the 70 weeks of Daniel, and preterist prophetic interpretation, I will probably be ripping off, sorry I meant to say borrowing most of the studies from you with my personal observations added. :heeheehee
mfblume
09-29-2014, 10:44 AM
Dear Bro Blume
I really wish I had the time to engage in this debate, but it would take too long, however I will keep it in mind for a later project.
Right now I am engaged in a number of projects that I want to finish.
ironically one of the projects is to create a series of Spanish studies on the 70 weeks of Daniel, and preterist prophetic interpretation, I will probably be ripping off, sorry I meant to say borrowing most of the studies from you with my personal observations added. :heeheehee
No problem, brother. Have at it! Use all you want! Blessings!
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