View Full Version : Apostolics and Secular Music
aaronliford07
10-08-2014, 08:50 AM
What do you think about these stats on apostolics and secular music?
http://bit.ly/1ArJxWy
Jermyn Davidson
10-08-2014, 10:55 AM
My computer won't let me access that link. What do the stats say or can you do a copy and paste job on the stats?
aaronliford07
10-08-2014, 11:06 AM
My computer won't let me access that link. What do the stats say or can you do a copy and paste job on the stats?
Thats weird. Unfortunately it is a picture of an infographic. So I can't copy and paste it. Try to assess the link with a different browser. There may be a pop up blocker on your browser or something. I'm not sure.
houston
10-08-2014, 11:25 AM
....
Miss Scarlett
10-08-2014, 11:29 AM
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=751996661523106&set=vb.163097527079692&type=2&theater
Jermyn Davidson
10-08-2014, 11:38 AM
....
Thanks.
Jermyn Davidson
10-08-2014, 11:41 AM
What do you think about these stats on apostolics and secular music?
http://bit.ly/1ArJxWy
I wish that everyone who called themselves a Christian only listened to Christian music.
That way, we spend our money on rewarding and making talented Christian artists rich for their amazing gifts, as opposed to heaping cash onto the likes of those who care nothing for the cause of Christ or for living a life according to the Bible.
aaronliford07
10-08-2014, 11:45 AM
....
Thanks!
Hopefully you can eventually read the post and get a better understanding about the stats.
Miss Scarlett
10-08-2014, 12:06 PM
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=751996661523106&set=vb.163097527079692&type=2&theater
Charismatic music, not in my church Come as you are kinda church.
aaronliford07
10-08-2014, 12:41 PM
Charismatic music, not in my church Come as you are kinda church.
Interesting. What is charismatic music?
Jermyn Davidson
10-08-2014, 01:58 PM
Charismatic music, not in my church Come as you are kinda church.
Is your church a come as you are kind of church?
Miss Scarlett
10-08-2014, 02:10 PM
Charismatic music, not in my church Come as you are kinda church.
Is your church a come as you are kind of church?
Jesus invites us all to come as we are, but he doesn't want us to leave that way. When we are saved, we are a new creature in Christ. Old things pass away and behold all things become new. :thumbsup Upon meeting Jesus, we are no longer the same. As he told the woman at the well, go and sin no more.
aaronliford07
10-08-2014, 02:50 PM
Jesus invites us all to come as we are, but he doesn't want us to leave that way. When we are saved, we are a new creature in Christ. Old things pass away and behold all things become new. :thumbsup Upon meeting Jesus, we are no longer the same. As he told the woman at the well, go and sin no more.
So what is charismatic music?
Miss Scarlett
10-08-2014, 02:56 PM
So what is charismatic music?
Rock and Roll type music that throws in the word Jesus on occasion. Something geared toward bringing young people into the worship service.
houston
10-08-2014, 04:06 PM
Lol
aaronliford07
10-08-2014, 08:48 PM
Rock and Roll type music that throws in the word Jesus on occasion. Something geared toward bringing young people into the worship service.
Oh ok.
Michael The Disciple
10-09-2014, 06:46 AM
Rock and Roll type music that throws in the word Jesus on occasion. Something geared toward bringing young people into the worship service.
What you describe is NOT Charismatic music. Charismatic music was mainly praise and worship songs with at least a Biblical theme and usually scripture. It was always done with the whole body worshipping.
It was the most beautiful of all expressions of praise and worship. It was written by Spirit baptized people and sang by them. It pretty much died out by the mid 90's.
What passes (among Apostolics) as Charismatic music is is just contemporary Christian music. Christian pop. Like K LOVE. Its not the same.
n david
10-09-2014, 08:31 AM
Dagblasted rock music! The electrical guitar is of the debbil! A steely guitar or a banjo is the only acceptable form of music, and country gospel is the only gospel music which should be played or sung in church!
:grumpy And get off my lawn! :grumpy
Miss Scarlett
10-09-2014, 08:38 AM
So what is charismatic music?
What you describe is NOT Charismatic music. Charismatic music was mainly praise and worship songs with at least a Biblical theme and usually scripture. It was always done with the whole body worshipping.
It was the most beautiful of all expressions of praise and worship. It was written by Spirit baptized people and sang by them. It pretty much died out by the mid 90's.
What passes (among Apostolics) as Charismatic music is is just contemporary Christian music. Christian pop. Like K LOVE. Its not the same.
Thank you for defining your definition of some of the Junk some are allowing into churches to reach the youth. If we have to conform to the world to reach the youth...are we reaching the youth, or bringing their worldly music into our churches? IMO some of it looks like rock concerts Where is God in all this?
KeptByTheWord
10-09-2014, 08:44 AM
I listen to music that draws my soul closer to the Lord, and worships the Lord in holiness, truth, and spirit. I don't mind listening to some country music if it is not glorifying sin. There are some good country music songs, but very few. So, I hardly listen to it.
I apply this principle to music: If it glorifying sin any way, I want no part of it.
Jermyn Davidson
10-09-2014, 08:51 AM
Dagblasted rock music! The electrical guitar is of the debbil! A steely guitar or a banjo is the only acceptable form of music, and country gospel is the only gospel music which should be played or sung in church!
:grumpy And get off my lawn! :grumpy
:spit
KWSS1976
10-09-2014, 08:58 AM
The ultimate alter call Secular song...by the way Chellos are of the Devil too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfGggAGITwg
Miss Scarlett
10-09-2014, 09:01 AM
My parents were raised on Good old Gospel Music, We were raised on some of the same good old Gospel Music, but the youth of today want the Hype of the Rock. My church didn't conform for us, our children, but for our grandchildren. Some think need Rock and Roll music in order to reach them. Is this drawing our children closer to God, or conforming to the world?
FlamingZword
10-09-2014, 09:34 AM
My parents were raised on Good old Gospel Music, We were raised on some of the same good old Gospel Music, but the youth of today want the Hype of the Rock. My church didn't conform for us, our children, but for our grandchildren. Some think need Rock and Roll music in order to reach them. Is this drawing our children closer to God, or conforming to the world?
The people of the prior generation probably had the same discussion.
Actually your church did conform for the people in your generation.
what most consider good old gospel Music, would have sounded like conforming to the world to those raised on the old hymns of Luther.
a little research on the changing music of the church will bear this out.
aaronliford07
10-09-2014, 11:44 AM
How do you define what music is ok to listen to?
Miss Scarlett
10-09-2014, 01:18 PM
How do you define what music is ok to listen to?
Aaron, you are asking the wrong person, i'm old and few see it as I do. Discuss it with a trusted man of God. I have no idea what your Pastor may or may not allow in your church as acceptable.
aaronliford07
10-09-2014, 01:47 PM
I know what my pastor would say. I was just wondering what everyone else's criteria is.
n david
10-09-2014, 01:51 PM
Aaron, you are asking the wrong person, i'm old and few see it as I do. Discuss it with a trusted man of God. I have no idea what your Pastor may or may not allow in your church as acceptable.
While I agree we should have Godly counsel in our lives, IMO this is a bit much. This is akin to having a Priest or Pope to tell people what is acceptable or what isn't. Don't you have a Bible? Don't you have the Holy Ghost inside to guide you in all truth? Why the need to obtain rules on what is acceptable or not acceptable from someone else?
aaronliford07
10-09-2014, 02:00 PM
While I agree we should have Godly counsel in our lives, IMO this is a bit much. This is akin to having a Priest or Pope to tell people what is acceptable or what isn't. Don't you have a Bible? Don't you have the Holy Ghost inside to guide you in all truth? Why the need to obtain rules on what is acceptable or not acceptable from someone else?
Yep, I definitely agree with you. We definitely need to use the word of God as guideline. Here is the guideline that I use from the Bible. http://aaronliford.com/post/84814765309/apostolics-want-to-know-how-to-know-what-music-is
Miss Scarlett
10-09-2014, 02:07 PM
Aaron, you are asking the wrong person, i'm old and few see it as I do. Discuss it with a trusRomans 10:14King James Version (KJV)
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
ted man of God. I have no idea what your Pastor may or may not allow in your church as acceptable.
I know what my pastor would say. I was just wondering what everyone else's criteria is.
[QUOTE=aaronliford07;1338292]Yep, I definitely agree with you. We definitely need to use the word of God as guideline. Here is the guideline that I use from the Bible. [URL="http://aaronliford.com/post/84814765309/apostolics-want-to-know-how-to-know-what-music-is"]http://aaronliford.com/post/84814765309/apostolics-want-to-know-how-to-know-what-music-is[/URL
Romans 10:14King James Version (KJV)
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?]
And What would your Pastor say? Doesn't He get his answers from God through Reading and studying the word, also prayer and fasting?
n david
10-09-2014, 02:32 PM
Romans 10 is speaking of those who haven't heard the Gospel. It's not about asking for what's acceptable or unacceptable according to another man.
Again, do you not have the Holy Ghost living within you as a guide? Can you not read the word of God and determine what's acceptable or not? Are you that much a babe in Christ that you require teats to drink milk and pablum because you cannot digest the meat on your own?
What of Philippians 2:12?
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
I love my Pastor, but the HG and word of God is my guide for daily living.
Michael The Disciple
10-09-2014, 02:39 PM
Secular music is not the same as the different forms of Christian music. Secular music can honor Christ altho it may be sung by people who are not Christians.
My favorite forms or genres of Christian music would go like this:
Charismatic
Messianic
Christian Rock
Country gospel
Choir style
Quartet
Michael The Disciple
10-09-2014, 02:49 PM
Im not sure what genre this would be called. This is an example of what I would consider MOST honoring to Christ. Its all scripture. Yet I sure some would find fault.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHEpRXMJIkk
aaronliford07
10-09-2014, 02:51 PM
Romans 10 is speaking of those who haven't heard the Gospel. It's not about asking for what's acceptable or unacceptable according to another man.
Again, do you not have the Holy Ghost living within you as a guide? Can you not read the word of God and determine what's acceptable or not? Are you that much a babe in Christ that you require teats to drink milk and pablum because you cannot digest the meat on your own?
What of Philippians 2:12?
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
I love my Pastor, but the HG and word of God is my guide for daily living.
That's basically what I said in the link that I posted.
Miss Scarlett
10-09-2014, 02:55 PM
Romans 10 is speaking of those who haven't heard the Gospel. It's not about asking for what's acceptable or unacceptable according to another man.
Again, do you not have the Holy Ghost living within you as a guide? Can you not read the word of God and determine what's acceptable or not? Are you that much a babe in Christ that you require teats to drink milk and pablum because you cannot digest the meat on your own?
And yes I do, but if I had never heard a preacher bring forth the Word of God and teach me the things of God, chances are I would not have found God on my own. I do read and study my own Bible, but personally, It think we need a man of God as our Shepherd.
What of Philippians 2:12?
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
I love my Pastor, but the HG and word of God is my guide for daily living.
I understand what you are saying. Study to show ourselves approved, Pray that the Holy Ghost may open our understanding that we may know what He is speaking to us according to His word.
Miss Scarlett
10-09-2014, 03:00 PM
Im not sure what genre this would be called. This is an example of what I would consider MOST honoring to Christ. Its all scripture. Yet I sure some would find fault.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHEpRXMJIkk
This music and the people are much more reverent than the group in this video. And I consider this head banging music.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v...type=2&theater
n david
10-09-2014, 03:03 PM
Personally, I don't listen to secular radio or much secular music at all. Most secular music I've heard in the past year is trash anyway. I don't even listen to christian radio either. I have Spotify on my phone and use that. The album I'm currently listening to is a group called "Housefires." It's a house church worship recording, acoustic and really good. Lately I've been listening to a lot of acoustic worship music.
I grew up and still love black gospel music. Saints in Praise, New Jersey Mass Choir, Shirley Caesar, the Winans brothers, BeBe and CeCe Winans, Williams Brothers, ex Bishop Carlton Pearson, Walter Hawkins, etc. I also enjoy some of Hillsong and Hillsong United, Planetshakers, One Sonic Society, Unspoken, Jimmy Needham, FF5, Kari Jobe, Jason Crabb, GVB, Sidney Mohede, William McDowell and others.
The HG inside of us should be able to let us know what's acceptable or not....what nourishes the spirit and what harms the spirit. There are some times I've turned on a country or 80s throwback playlist and I can feel the effects. Not that I'm uber-spiritual. I'm not by any means. It's just music has an effect on people and if they pay attention they can feel it.
n david
10-09-2014, 03:07 PM
I understand what you are saying. Study to show ourselves approved, Pray that the Holy Ghost may open our understanding that we may know what He is speaking to us according to His word.
:thumbsup
n david
10-09-2014, 03:10 PM
This music and the people are much more reverent than the group in this video. And I consider this head banging music.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v...type=2&theater
It's not letting me see the Facebook video link.
Miss Scarlett
10-09-2014, 03:14 PM
It's not letting me see the Facebook video link.
Go back to Page 1. post 5, that link will open for you.
Miss Scarlett
10-09-2014, 03:22 PM
Personally, I don't listen to secular radio or much secular music at all. Most secular music I've heard in the past year is trash anyway. I don't even listen to christian radio either. I have Spotify on my phone and use that. The album I'm currently listening to is a group called "Housefires." It's a house church worship recording, acoustic and really good. Lately I've been listening to a lot of acoustic worship music.
I grew up and still love black gospel music. Saints in Praise, New Jersey Mass Choir, Shirley Caesar, the Winans brothers, BeBe and CeCe Winans, Williams Brothers, ex Bishop Carlton Pearson, Walter Hawkins, etc. I also enjoy some of Hillsong and Hillsong United, Planetshakers, One Sonic Society, Unspoken, Jimmy Needham, FF5, Kari Jobe, Jason Crabb, GVB, Sidney Mohede, William McDowell and others.
The HG inside of us should be able to let us know what's acceptable or not....what nourishes the spirit and what harms the spirit. There are some times I've turned on a country or 80s throwback playlist and I can feel the effects. Not that I'm uber-spiritual. I'm not by any means. It's just music has an effect on people and if they pay attention they can feel it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plvdesmkgGc&list=PLXkqtvARYG13_gINhyRWfWB5JxLNd6uJk&index=2, Lynda Randall and others
Michael The Disciple
10-09-2014, 06:40 PM
Personally, I don't listen to secular radio or much secular music at all. Most secular music I've heard in the past year is trash anyway. I don't even listen to christian radio either. I have Spotify on my phone and use that. The album I'm currently listening to is a group called "Housefires." It's a house church worship recording, acoustic and really good. Lately I've been listening to a lot of acoustic worship music.
I grew up and still love black gospel music. Saints in Praise, New Jersey Mass Choir, Shirley Caesar, the Winans brothers, BeBe and CeCe Winans, Williams Brothers, ex Bishop Carlton Pearson, Walter Hawkins, etc. I also enjoy some of Hillsong and Hillsong United, Planetshakers, One Sonic Society, Unspoken, Jimmy Needham, FF5, Kari Jobe, Jason Crabb, GVB, Sidney Mohede, William McDowell and others.
The HG inside of us should be able to let us know what's acceptable or not....what nourishes the spirit and what harms the spirit. There are some times I've turned on a country or 80s throwback playlist and I can feel the effects. Not that I'm uber-spiritual. I'm not by any means. It's just music has an effect on people and if they pay attention they can feel it.
You may like this.
http://www.godlychristianmusic.com/Music_Artist_Details.aspx?id=8&groups=0&name=Alan%20Thomas
obriencp
10-09-2014, 08:38 PM
Thank you for defining your definition of some of the Junk some are allowing into churches to reach the youth. If we have to conform to the world to reach the youth...are we reaching the youth, or bringing their worldly music into our churches? IMO some of it looks like rock concerts Where is God in all this?
I understand what you're saying and somewhat agree. But I offer this viewpoint: the types of young people that this music touches will be dancing and singing somewhere. I'd rather them be dancing and singing in a church about Jesus rather than a club glorifying sin. They might not get a deep understanding of the truth, but it's a start for them and an opportunity for other young people to see that serving Jesus doesn't have to be stale.
houston
10-10-2014, 01:11 PM
I listen to "secular" music because christian music is mostly a joke.
Esaias
10-10-2014, 04:37 PM
Yes many churches have figured out they would rather young people have a "good time in church" on their way to hell.
Miss Scarlett
10-10-2014, 05:01 PM
Yes many churches have figured out they would rather young people have a "good time in church" on their way to hell.
Yes, I agree.
Originalist
10-10-2014, 05:13 PM
I listen to music that draws my soul closer to the Lord, and worships the Lord in holiness, truth, and spirit. I don't mind listening to some country music if it is not glorifying sin. There are some good country music songs, but very few. So, I hardly listen to it.
I apply this principle to music: If it glorifying sin any way, I want no part of it.
I'm with you on this!! Great thoughts all the way around.
Originalist
10-10-2014, 05:17 PM
Thank you for defining your definition of some of the Junk some are allowing into churches to reach the youth. If we have to conform to the world to reach the youth...are we reaching the youth, or bringing their worldly music into our churches? IMO some of it looks like rock concerts Where is God in all this?
The biggest problem I have is not with the music style, but it's when they try to mix rock "culture" with Christianity.
houston
10-10-2014, 05:34 PM
Yes many churches have figured out they would rather young people have a "good time in church" on their way to hell. if they're in church and on their way to hell the music is least of the problems
Esaias
10-10-2014, 09:45 PM
if they're in church and on their way to hell the music is least of the problems
Yes the real problem is many today want people to come to church far more than they want them to truly come to Jesus. Thus they try to make going to church "cool" which is to say worldly. Thus agreeing with satan that old fashioned repentance and seperation are "stale".
And so folks are rocking out in the sanctuary blissfully opiated on their way to hell. These churches know full well the house of mirth pays the bills unlike the house of mourning.
So they make some filthy lucre and earn some "cred" by trafficking in souls. And funny how that works... the more "hip and relevant and cool" churches become the less impact they actually have and the less respect even the lost give them.
I guess the word "fool" might be apropriate ???
houston
10-11-2014, 07:04 AM
I like awesome rocking music. Sometimes. I think some peoples problem is that anything that doesn't sound like Old McDonald is considered worldly.
Yes the real problem is many today want people to come to church far more than they want them to truly come to Jesus. Thus they try to make going to church "cool" which is to say worldly. Thus agreeing with satan that old fashioned repentance and seperation are "stale".
And so folks are rocking out in the sanctuary blissfully opiated on their way to hell. These churches know full well the house of mirth pays the bills unlike the house of mourning.
So they make some filthy lucre and earn some "cred" by trafficking in souls. And funny how that works... the more "hip and relevant and cool" churches become the less impact they actually have and the less respect even the lost give them.
I guess the word "fool" might be apropriate ???
The best way to see if the saints are spiritual is just NO music for a couple of weeks. If they cannot worship in accapella, they are just "rockin' out". Music, universally gets the flesh moving. No matter what you hear.
Miss Scarlett
10-11-2014, 09:43 AM
The words to the song is what I love to hear because they minister to my soul and lift me up, when the music is so loud, you hear no words, but the beat instead, how does this edify God?
MawMaw
10-11-2014, 10:17 AM
The words to the song is what I love to hear because they minister to my soul and lift me up, when the music is so loud, you hear no words, but the beat instead, how does this edify God?
I agree. To hear the words of the song being sung is very
important to me. I love to hear music too, but, it should not
overpower the singer! :nod
AR Pastor
10-11-2014, 10:27 AM
A true Apostolic does not listen to worldly music.
Miss Scarlett
10-11-2014, 11:12 AM
A true Apostolic does not listen to worldly music.
My sentiments exactly AR Pastor, but then others here want to know what is worldly music, and what we consider worldly, others may not....So this is what we are dealing with in this thread.
As MawMaw mentioned, music is important too, and sometimes I enjoy fast paced songs and sometimes I receive a bigger blessing by slow music. But I do not enjoy the Heavy Metal Music in the churches, and do not consider it appropriate in the house of God.
n david
10-11-2014, 12:32 PM
The words to the song is what I love to hear because they minister to my soul and lift me up, when the music is so loud, you hear no words, but the beat instead, how does this edify God?
This happens with any genre in many churches. It's not limited to contemporary, gospel, country gospel, etc. I've been in PAW churches with loud gospel music and I've been in old school camp meetings playing loud country gospel.
The debbil runs the sound! Them sound techs need Jesus.
:lol
AR Pastor
10-11-2014, 01:36 PM
My sentiments exactly AR Pastor, but then others here want to know what is worldly music, and what we consider worldly, others may not....So this is what we are dealing with in this thread.
As MawMaw mentioned, music is important too, and sometimes I enjoy fast paced songs and sometimes I receive a bigger blessing by slow music. But I do not enjoy the Heavy Metal Music in the churches, and do not consider it appropriate in the house of God.
I agree.
MawMaw
10-11-2014, 01:41 PM
The debbil runs the sound!
You got that right! Every time the praise singers get ready to sing,
those mics are all a mess and none sounding right!! :girlytantrum
Them sound techs need Jesus.
:lol
Oh my yes!! Would not want that job!! LOL!!
Pendragon
10-13-2014, 01:35 PM
I've never heard a good Biblical argument either for Christian music or against 'Secular music', primarily because there is no scripture that directly addresses believers listening to music made by 'good' people or music made by 'bad' people - or however you want to separate the myriad musical styles present on the planet. Because ultimately, classifying the music really just boils down to who is making the music, and how they classify themselves.
So how to address whether or not a believer should listen to it?
I see these arguments that you should only listen to music if it edifies you, but how is that Biblical? There's no scripture that directly addresses what kind of music believers should listen to. It's entertainment, it's a pleasurable syncopated sound in your ears, it's noise. Yes, sometimes music edifies you in a spiritual way, and yes it sometimes brings you down, but a lot of it just doesn't do anything for you at all, it just sounds nice. Lets take jazz or classical music, for instance. Where is the edification in listening to Bach? Where is the edification in listening to Louis Armstrong? And if there is no spiritual value, are you sinning by listening to Bach?
Maybe you'll claim that there is no such thing as music that is neutral, in that it neither spiritually edifies nor spiritually corrupts. If you believe this then you must believe everything in life is either positive or negative, which is a belief in imbalance. Have you ever played a game of football with friends? Was this spiritually edifying, or was it a negative? Have you ever gone hunting - spiritually positive, or negative? Seen any type of artwork? Have you ever seen a nearly-nude Roman statue and felt neither good, nor bad, and merely seen it as a piece of artwork? Ever drank a cup of hot chocolate while doing a crossword puzzle? Was the crossword puzzle spiritually edifying? Have you ever absentmindedly tapped out a syncopated rhythm on your steering wheel? If you can find examples of activities, art, entertainment that are spiritually neutral, then you can also find examples of music that are spiritually neutral. If you did find evil in any of these things, it came from inside you, not from the activity or art itself. If you found good in them, it also came from inside you, not from the activity or art itself.
So if the sound itself neither edifies nor brings you down, how else do you determine whether or not you should listen to it? We come to another argument from the fundamentalists: the musicians themselves. For most of my life growing up I heard that you shouldn't listen to rock 'n' roll because those artists were always having the sex and smoking pot. But then I heard about Sandi Patti having an affair, and then Michael English. Had I been unknowingly sinning by listening to music made by adulterers?? And how many other Christians are making music while secretly sinning?? Should we demand a signed and notarized document to accompany all Christian music, certifying the 'album is free of sin throughout the entire production process, including the writing of the lyrics'? Are you sinning when you listen to a fugue because Bach apparently wasn't a born-again believer?
Here is how I handle listening to music: if it sounds good and my conscience doesn't bother me, I listen to it in the privacy of my home or vehicle. If I'm around conservative brothers and sister who I know would be offended by 'secular music', I don't listen to anything that would offend them. There are many times I will be listening to a 'secular' radio station and hear a song that pricks my conscience, and I'll simply change the station. Really it just boils down to whether or not the lyrics are offensive in some way. I'm not going to listen to AC/DC's Highway to Hell any more than I'm going to listen to some country song about adultery, or a rap number filled with vulgarities, but I'm not going to change the station just because I hear somebody jamming on a guitar. 'WHOA WHOA WHOA I don't know what this guy's singing about but that guitar it just don't sound like Jesus!'
I want to be real. I want to be a real Christian and a real person. I don't want to be a religious person that follows stupid rules just because a preacher 50 years ago didn't like the way Elvis moved his hips, or because distortion on a guitar gets his hackles up. Some of these standards fall apart like a house made of straw if you just give them a long hard stare. I am absolutely, 100% done living life that way. If I'm going to be like Jesus it's going to because I worship him in SPIRIT and in TRUTH, not because I'm blindly following some hashed-together rules that were thrown together in a knee-jerk emotional response to hippies.
Michael The Disciple
10-13-2014, 11:28 PM
I like awesome rocking music. Sometimes. I think some peoples problem is that anything that doesn't sound like Old McDonald is considered worldly.
You're going to love this! I can imagine this song reverberating throughout the Galaxy as we get closer to the throne. Jesus is lifted higher than all the creatures in Heaven!
This is not secular music friends. This is glorious praise and worship that makes the Jesus lovers rejoice! The God of the Bible YHWH likes it loud!
4Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all the earth: make a loud noise, and rejoice, and sing praise. Psalms 98:4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgO1bDFpD1U
houston
10-14-2014, 07:21 PM
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6iQ2d2E6wpM
Esaias
10-15-2014, 03:01 AM
http://www.inquisitr.com/252305/carrie-underwood-supports-gay-marriage-says-god-probably-does-too/
"When a celebrity comes out in support (or against) gay marriage it really isn’t news. But since Carrie Underwood has a good ol’ Christian country girl image, as well as a strong conservative fan base, her endorsement of gay marriage has a lot of people talking."
Esaias
10-15-2014, 03:14 AM
You're going to love this! I can imagine this song reverberating throughout the Galaxy as we get closer to the throne. Jesus is lifted higher than all the creatures in Heaven!
This is not secular music friends. This is glorious praise and worship that makes the Jesus lovers rejoice! The God of the Bible YHWH likes it loud!
4Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all the earth: make a loud noise, and rejoice, and sing praise. Psalms 98:4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgO1bDFpD1U
Does that song even actually mention Jesus?
Esaias
10-15-2014, 03:18 AM
I've never heard a good Biblical argument either for Christian music or against 'Secular music', primarily because there is no scripture that directly addresses believers listening to music made by 'good' people or music made by 'bad' people - or however you want to separate the myriad musical styles present on the planet. Because ultimately, classifying the music really just boils down to who is making the music, and how they classify themselves.
So how to address whether or not a believer should listen to it?
I see these arguments that you should only listen to music if it edifies you, but how is that Biblical? There's no scripture that directly addresses what kind of music believers should listen to. It's entertainment, it's a pleasurable syncopated sound in your ears, it's noise. Yes, sometimes music edifies you in a spiritual way, and yes it sometimes brings you down, but a lot of it just doesn't do anything for you at all, it just sounds nice. Lets take jazz or classical music, for instance. Where is the edification in listening to Bach? Where is the edification in listening to Louis Armstrong? And if there is no spiritual value, are you sinning by listening to Bach?
Maybe you'll claim that there is no such thing as music that is neutral, in that it neither spiritually edifies nor spiritually corrupts. If you believe this then you must believe everything in life is either positive or negative, which is a belief in imbalance. Have you ever played a game of football with friends? Was this spiritually edifying, or was it a negative? Have you ever gone hunting - spiritually positive, or negative? Seen any type of artwork? Have you ever seen a nearly-nude Roman statue and felt neither good, nor bad, and merely seen it as a piece of artwork? Ever drank a cup of hot chocolate while doing a crossword puzzle? Was the crossword puzzle spiritually edifying? Have you ever absentmindedly tapped out a syncopated rhythm on your steering wheel? If you can find examples of activities, art, entertainment that are spiritually neutral, then you can also find examples of music that are spiritually neutral. If you did find evil in any of these things, it came from inside you, not from the activity or art itself. If you found good in them, it also came from inside you, not from the activity or art itself.
So if the sound itself neither edifies nor brings you down, how else do you determine whether or not you should listen to it? We come to another argument from the fundamentalists: the musicians themselves. For most of my life growing up I heard that you shouldn't listen to rock 'n' roll because those artists were always having the sex and smoking pot. But then I heard about Sandi Patti having an affair, and then Michael English. Had I been unknowingly sinning by listening to music made by adulterers?? And how many other Christians are making music while secretly sinning?? Should we demand a signed and notarized document to accompany all Christian music, certifying the 'album is free of sin throughout the entire production process, including the writing of the lyrics'? Are you sinning when you listen to a fugue because Bach apparently wasn't a born-again believer?
Here is how I handle listening to music: if it sounds good and my conscience doesn't bother me, I listen to it in the privacy of my home or vehicle. If I'm around conservative brothers and sister who I know would be offended by 'secular music', I don't listen to anything that would offend them. There are many times I will be listening to a 'secular' radio station and hear a song that pricks my conscience, and I'll simply change the station. Really it just boils down to whether or not the lyrics are offensive in some way. I'm not going to listen to AC/DC's Highway to Hell any more than I'm going to listen to some country song about adultery, or a rap number filled with vulgarities, but I'm not going to change the station just because I hear somebody jamming on a guitar. 'WHOA WHOA WHOA I don't know what this guy's singing about but that guitar it just don't sound like Jesus!'
I want to be real. I want to be a real Christian and a real person. I don't want to be a religious person that follows stupid rules just because a preacher 50 years ago didn't like the way Elvis moved his hips, or because distortion on a guitar gets his hackles up. Some of these standards fall apart like a house made of straw if you just give them a long hard stare. I am absolutely, 100% done living life that way. If I'm going to be like Jesus it's going to because I worship him in SPIRIT and in TRUTH, not because I'm blindly following some hashed-together rules that were thrown together in a knee-jerk emotional response to hippies.
Do you honestly believe Jesus would entertain himself with pop music in all its inanity? Just curious.
houston
10-15-2014, 09:13 AM
http://www.inquisitr.com/252305/carrie-underwood-supports-gay-marriage-says-god-probably-does-too/ "When a celebrity comes out in support (or against) gay marriage it really isn't news. But since Carrie Underwood has a good ol' Christian country girl image, as well as a strong conservative fan base, her endorsement of gay marriage has a lot of people talking." you don't like the baptismal regeneration song?--
Michael The Disciple
10-15-2014, 02:06 PM
Does that song even actually mention Jesus?
Are you kidding? You must not have even listened to it. How about the plain mention of Jesus all the way through? The whole song is about Jesus.
IMO one of the most edifying songs of all time.!
Esphes45
10-15-2014, 03:05 PM
I listen to music that draws my soul closer to the Lord, and worships the Lord in holiness, truth, and spirit. I don't mind listening to some country music if it is not glorifying sin. There are some good country music songs, but very few. So, I hardly listen to it.
I apply this principle to music: If it glorifying sin any way, I want no part of it.
My thoughts are echoed above. But let me throw this out there. We must first define "secular music". It pains me to hear people define secular music by saying "if the song has a hard beat it's secular". That in my opinion is foolishness. In my opinion, music is not what makes a song secular, it's the words/lyrics. So I don't have a problem with jazz, spa music, coffeehouse music, or any music that does not have lyrics/words to it. Now if you know the words to what you are listening to that is different. I even have to catch myself sometime with that having not spent my entire life in church.
Now I define a secular song as any song that does not lift up the name of Jesus. Now there are songs where people will walk that line and you will find it under the Christian genre. If you choose to listen to that, that is between you and God. But the point I want to emphasize is that a song should not be labeled secular because of its beat.
Also I want to add that this is just me but we need to stop passing judgement on secular music artists who from time to time feel like making a christian/gospel song. Personally I don't particularly like the double-mindedness but that could be God grabbing at them to use their gift to praise him. Remember gifts come before repentance.
Michael The Disciple
10-15-2014, 04:30 PM
What I dont see is it seems some equate "secular" music with any kind of Christian music except for hymns and Old Timey Pentecostal music. So to them Charismatic, Messianic or Christian rock is "secular".
Now I listen to 90% Christian music. Once in a while my wife and I will pull up love songs and do some slow dancing. Also once in a while I may listen to a few old songs I like. They are what I would call "secular".
Abiding Now
10-15-2014, 05:25 PM
I like Kenny G and other elevator music. :D
obriencp
10-16-2014, 07:08 AM
A few pages back it seemed like everybody was throwing stones at churches that make church fun, have modern music, and apparently are sending a bunch of young people to hell. Why can't we see what they're doing right and try to apply similar techniques? We're so "holier than thou" that we can't even appreciate the fact that large numbers of youth are at least getting exposed to Jesus. SMH.
Pendragon
10-16-2014, 09:35 AM
Do you honestly believe Jesus would entertain himself with pop music in all its inanity? Just curious.
No, I can't picture Jesus listening to pop music. However I also rarely listen to pop music for exactly that reason. Frankly, although I'm sure Jesus heard music on occasion as he walked around Israel, I can't picture him putting in earbuds and listening to music of any kind. I suppose whatever you are picturing internally when you think of Jesus+music really depends on the Personal Jesus you have created in your mind, because we don't have any scripture that discusses Jesus+music in any context.
However, if you want to go down that particular logical path, here are some other intriguing thoughts in the 'WWJD' category:
Would Jesus marry and have sexual relations with his wife?
Jesus drank alcoholic drinks. Do you ever drink wine or beer?
Would Jesus drink a coffee while reading the newspaper?
Jesus had a beard. Do you?
Jesus hung out with sinners, but would Jesus go to a ball game?
Would Jesus play golf?
Would Jesus cruise in a Corvette with the top down? Would he drive a Corvette? Would Jesus cruise in a Ford Taurus with the windows down? Would Jesus drive any car?
Would Jesus take a road trip vacation? Would he take any vacation?
Would Jesus go out to a Michelin-starred restaurant and enjoy a fancy meal?
Would Jesus watch a movie? Would he go to an IMAX and watch a documentary about bears?
Have you ever healed anyone?
Have you ever cast out a demon?
Have you performed any miracles?
Would Jesus have any Internet-enabled devices? Would he use the Internet?
Would Jesus own a home? In that home, would he care if he use a $100 spring mattress or would he dish out the cash for a $2000 memory foam mattress?
Would Jesus run the aisles?
Would Jesus own an iPad?
Would Jesus go to a carnival? If so, would he ride any rides?
I know we need to be like Jesus, but we are also un-perfected humans, and spending 100% of our time healing the sick, teaching, and spreading the gospel the way Jesus did just isn't possible or realistic. If you spend your whole life searching you would never find someone who is or has been exactly like Jesus and never spends any of their time on personal downtime or entertainment. Entertaining ourselves, within reasonable limits (which is a completely different and lengthy discussion), is perfectly acceptable and normal behavior for a disciple of Jesus.
Pendragon
10-16-2014, 09:57 AM
Now I define a secular song as any song that does not lift up the name of Jesus.
You bring to mind an interesting point. Some Christians have the opinion that music is inherently spiritual. I personally believe music is entertainment in the same sense that food is entertainment. Food makes us feel good because of our taste buds, whereas music makes us feel good because of the harmonics, rhythm, etc. (there is a WHOLE lot more to it than that! but for the sake of brevity i'll end it with 'etc.')
Now, I do believe music can be twisted for evil by the lyrics that are added to it, which convey a message. The nice sounds and rhythm sooth you and make you feel good, but meanwhile the artist slips a bad message through while your defenses are down. On the other hand, if the lyrics aren't sending a bad message, how is music bad simply because it doesn't uplift God? Are you aware that music is simply audible mathematics? Music is order and logic, and all music has its source in God. To argue against a particular sound/style of music simply because it was 'discovered' by a secular artist is about as logical as arguing against sex because people are fornicating.
Another way that I can see music having a bad influence is by provoking sinful memories. Many people who came out of the world will be 'triggered' by the sound of music they used to listen to while they were high or drunk or at the bar, or in some other sinful situation. For someone like myself, who was raised in the church, this is not an issue, but I wouldn't want my liberty to cause someone else to stumble, so when I'm around other believers I stick to purely Christian music to be on the safe side.
Does anyone have scripture that would support the argument that music is inherently bad if it doesn't uplift God?
n david
10-16-2014, 10:23 AM
The real question is "Would Jesus wear a Rolex on His Television show?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drMMBE6KRbI
Michael The Disciple
10-16-2014, 01:48 PM
I agree with a lot of what you said. I want to comment on this:
Pendragon
I suppose whatever you are picturing internally when you think of Jesus+music really depends on the Personal Jesus you have created in your mind, because we don't have any scripture that discusses Jesus+music in any context.
Rev 14:1-5
1And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
In worship I perceive Christ like this at times. He is accepting worship from those who are faultless before him. He likes stringed instruments, harps are mentioned. Guitars are stringed instruments also. Part of my personal time with him is playing my guitar and singing to him. I play acoustic guitar but nonetheless he seems to like it loud as in verse 2.
As to secular music as I said earlier I dont think its wrong to listen to some of it. Of course music that promotes sin would be sinful. Another thing to consider is that music can be very addicting. If listening to secular music keeps ones mind focused toward it they should war against it and give it no place.
However if one can fill their mind with the praises of Elohim thats all the better. If we enjoy a certain kind of Christian music far better to spend time with it than secular.
Now there is a certain strand of secular music that when I was young always made me think about God and Christ. I have a playlist on Youtube of some of those. I like to visit them now and then to remind me of that feeling of being hungry to know God at a time when I didn't. Im sure many would not perceive them the way I do yet Elohim uses different things to draw different people.
So I say keep the Christian music foremost! Use it to build up our spirits! Use what you enjoy! This I say concerning music we listen to at home or in the car.
I do feel Church gathering music should be things the entire group should be able to sing together.
I love these music threads.
n david
10-16-2014, 02:04 PM
Michael - have you listened to United Pursuit? They have a few songs I like. They also have a free webcast every Tuesday you can watch at live.unitedpursuit.com. I watched some of it this past Tuesday and it was interesting. They were in the middle of a large room with people standing or in chairs all around the singers/musicians. I watched 30 or 45 minutes and they would just go from one song into another song and have periods of soft worship. I didn't recognize any of the songs, so I'm not sure if they were new songs, or if they were just ad-libbing.
Michael The Disciple
10-16-2014, 02:08 PM
Michael - have you listened to United Pursuit? They have a few songs I like. They also have a free webcast every Tuesday you can watch at live.unitedpursuit.com. I watched some of it this past Tuesday and it was interesting. They were in the middle of a large room with people standing or in chairs all around the singers/musicians. I watched 30 or 45 minutes and they would just go from one song into another song and have periods of soft worship. I didn't recognize any of the songs, so I'm not sure if they were new songs, or if they were just ad-libbing.
I have not heard of them but I will check them out.:highfive
BrotherEastman
10-16-2014, 02:27 PM
If one has to incorporate "Christian Rock" to draw people to Christ then they are as lost as two boys kissing. How do you distinguish the words from the music?
Michael The Disciple
10-16-2014, 02:27 PM
Hey I saw this on Youtube by United Pursuit. I had heard a few things by Will Reagen but did not know this was his band.
I noticed he wrote the MAGNIFICENT song called "Break Every Chain". I have heard some really good versions of it. Here is his, the original.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mohyR5xowFw
Michael The Disciple
10-16-2014, 02:33 PM
If one has to incorporate "Christian Rock" to draw people to Christ then they are as lost as two boys kissing. How do you distinguish the words from the music?
How do you know they are lost? Would you be ok with it if you could hear the words? Do you consider whether a song honors Christ? What the words are actually saying? Does the volume bother you?
When I started attending my first Pentecostal Church in 1975 they used to mock non Pentecostals and talk how God likes it loud!
BrotherEastman
10-16-2014, 02:39 PM
How do you know they are lost? Would you be ok with it if you could hear the words? Do you consider whether a song honors Christ? What the words are actually saying? Does the volume bother you?
When I started attending my first Pentecostal Church in 1975 they used to mock non Pentecostals and talk how God likes it loud!
Most (if not all) Christian Rock groups could not compete in the secular world so they turn their attention to "Christians" who think its okay.
BrotherEastman
10-16-2014, 02:41 PM
A few pages back it seemed like everybody was throwing stones at churches that make church fun, have modern music, and apparently are sending a bunch of young people to hell. Why can't we see what they're doing right and try to apply similar techniques? We're so "holier than thou" that we can't even appreciate the fact that large numbers of youth are at least getting exposed to Jesus. SMH.
they are getting exposed to the world not the gospel.
Michael The Disciple
10-16-2014, 02:50 PM
Most (if not all) Christian Rock groups could not compete in the secular world so they turn their attention to "Christians" who think its okay.
Wow I see that you have not been around many of these people. Sure some of them as tares are just looking to move up into worldy rock. Have you not noticed the very same thing with Southern Gospel?
I went to work at a place years ago. As was my custom I began witnessing about Jesus. My most fierce opposition came from a truck driver who worked there.
The first few weeks he never let up taunting and ridiculing. Then lo and behold what did I find out about him?
HE WAS A SINGER IN A COUNTRY GOSPEL GROUP!
Does that mean I can NEVER enjoy a country gospel group again? Because I know there are false disciples among them?
houston
10-16-2014, 02:50 PM
Michael - have you listened to United Pursuit? They have a few songs I like. They also have a free webcast every Tuesday you can watch at live.unitedpursuit.com. I watched some of it this past Tuesday and it was interesting. They were in the middle of a large room with people standing or in chairs all around the singers/musicians. I watched 30 or 45 minutes and they would just go from one song into another song and have periods of soft worship. I didn't recognize any of the songs, so I'm not sure if they were new songs, or if they were just ad-libbing. I was turned on to Will Reagan & United Pursuit. I love this album
BrotherEastman
10-16-2014, 02:56 PM
Wow I see that you have not been around many of these people. Sure some of them as tares are just looking to move up into worldy rock. Have you not noticed the very same thing with Southern Gospel?
I went to work at a place years ago. As was my custom I began witnessing about Jesus. My most fierce opposition came from a truck driver who worked there.
The first few weeks he never let up taunting and ridiculing. Then lo and behold what did I find out about him?
HE WAS A SINGER IN A COUNTRY GOSPEL GROUP!
Does that mean I can NEVER enjoy a country gospel group again? Because I know there are false disciples among them?
in a word, YES you should never listen to false disciples, I don't listen to country gospel either.
BrotherEastman
10-16-2014, 03:01 PM
mike if you wouldn't listen to a false prophet why should you listen to a false disciple?
n david
10-16-2014, 03:24 PM
Hey I saw this on Youtube by United Pursuit. I had heard a few things by Will Reagen but did not know this was his band.
I noticed he wrote the MAGNIFICENT song called "Break Every Chain". I have heard some really good versions of it. Here is his, the original.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mohyR5xowFw
Yeah, I love that song. There are a lot of videos from Will and UP on Youtube from there "Live at Fifth Ave" webcasts.
Most of the Will Reagan/UP music I've heard is pretty soft or acoustic.
I was turned on to Will Reagan & United Pursuit. I love this album
I haven't heard that album yet. Listening now on Spotify.
Miss Scarlett
10-16-2014, 03:33 PM
My parents were raised on Good old Gospel Music, We were raised on some of the same good old Gospel Music, but the youth of today want the Hype of the Rock. My church didn't conform for us, our children, but for our grandchildren. Some think we need Rock and Roll music in order to reach them. Is this drawing our children closer to God, or conforming to the world?
Most (if not all) Christian Rock groups could not compete in the secular world so they turn their attention to "Christians" who think its okay.
they are getting exposed to the world not the gospel.
in a word, YES you should never listen to false disciples, I don't listen to country gospel either.
mike if you wouldn't listen to a false prophet why should you listen to a false disciple?
Amen, Amen and again I say Amen Bro. Eastman :thumbsup
Esphes45
10-16-2014, 03:39 PM
they are getting exposed to the world not the gospel.
Wow. This is exactly what I was talking about. :foottap If it is not 3 old ladies bangin tambourines singing, then it is secular music.
The Rock style is not "of the world". That is like saying white shoes are "of the world". You can't condemn a style just because it is popular with people not like you.
BrotherEastman
10-16-2014, 04:13 PM
Wow. This is exactly what I was talking about. :foottap If it is not 3 old ladies bangin tambourines singing, then it is secular music.
The Rock style is not "of the world". That is like saying white shoes are "of the world". You can't condemn a style just because it is popular with people not like you.
I can condemn anything that wants to ACT like the world and not the church. come out from the world and leave the rock music while your add it!!!!!
Michael The Disciple
10-16-2014, 04:36 PM
I can condemn anything that wants to ACT like the world and not the church. come out from the world and leave the rock music while your add it!!!!!
You may know that we have threads like this a lot. I always ask people who say things like you this.
Please put up several videos of what you think is appropriate for Christian listening.
Most of them never do.
Michael The Disciple
10-16-2014, 04:44 PM
mike if you wouldn't listen to a false prophet why should you listen to a false disciple?
Very good for a discussion. Im not sure it could or even should be contained within a thread about music. I may start a thread about this.
BrotherEastman
10-16-2014, 08:08 PM
You may know that we have threads like this a lot. I always ask people who say things like you this.
Please put up several videos of what you think is appropriate for Christian listening.
Most of them never do.
I really don't know how to post youtube videos with a link, sorry.
houston
10-16-2014, 11:39 PM
Copy and paste a link
Esaias
10-17-2014, 02:17 AM
Are you kidding? You must not have even listened to it. How about the plain mention of Jesus all the way through? The whole song is about Jesus.
IMO one of the most edifying songs of all time.!
I listened to a clip and found the words online. I neither heard nor read one direct unequivocal mention of Jesus or "son of God".
Esaias
10-17-2014, 02:25 AM
Christians are obviously divided about music, especially music used in services. What's interesting to me is this was never that much of an issue in christendom until the 80s and 90s with rock, metal, and rap/hiphop being introduced into worship services.
There have been issues prior (psalms vs uninspired hymns, adaptation of folk melodies for hymn tunes, use of instruments vs a capella, unison vs polyphony, etc) but the ongoing big deal is different. Hollywood (aka pop media industry) has been brought in and honestly it looks to me like a not-so-slow path of social change, changing the church by changing its worship ... jmo.
Michael The Disciple
10-17-2014, 03:01 AM
I listened to a clip and found the words online. I neither heard nor read one direct unequivocal mention of Jesus or "son of God".
I dont know what "clip" you listened to. I just played the video I posted in this thread. Resurrected Son is twice. The name Jesus TWELVE times. He is called Holy and Almighty God I never counted them.
If you dont want to like it thats cool. In my way of thinking I cant think of a song I ever heard more edifying and glorifying to Christ.
Michael The Disciple
10-17-2014, 03:37 AM
Most (if not all) Christian Rock groups could not compete in the secular world so they turn their attention to "Christians" who think its okay.
Do you have any PROOF of that statement? Do you personally know every believer in Jesus Christ who has played Christian Rock music?
Or are you repeating something you heard someone else say? I mean that is quite a sweeping statement isnt it? So surely you must have some proof?
And ok you cant post any video's. So just give me two or three songs to examine. Just names and singers or even just a genre. Hymnals? What should we listen to? If you think someone is deceived you should be able to offer them a better way right?
obriencp
10-17-2014, 04:50 AM
If one has to incorporate "Christian Rock" to draw people to Christ then they are as lost as two boys kissing. How do you distinguish the words from the music?
Most (if not all) Christian Rock groups could not compete in the secular world so they turn their attention to "Christians" who think its okay.
Amen, Amen and again I say Amen Bro. Eastman :thumbsup
And it's this attitude that divides and conquers the body of christ. Do you realize how much music has changed over the last 2000 years? Styles change and evolve. There were prob people with your same attitude towards baroque music when it was new. When slave type call and repeat songs began to influence gospel i'm sure there were "die-hards" that wanted no part of that either. Maybe some of y'all should find a church that doesn't have any music at all. Strick acapella with no music and be sure its the type of music that the Apostles would have listened to. No western scales or chords allowed. No drums, no piano, no mics... I mean seriously, you have no idea how foolish you sound. What you call "ok" wasn't "ok" to those who came before you.
And to keep assuming all that favor a particular style of music are lost and that Christian "rockers" couldn't cut it in the real world? Some of you are flat out wrong in your outlook and spirit.
BrotherEastman
10-17-2014, 07:52 AM
Do you have any PROOF of that statement? Do you personally know every believer in Jesus Christ who has played Christian Rock music?
Or are you repeating something you heard someone else say? I mean that is quite a sweeping statement isnt it? So surely you must have some proof?
And ok you cant post any video's. So just give me two or three songs to examine. Just names and singers or even just a genre. Hymnals? What should we listen to? If you think someone is deceived you should be able to offer them a better way right?
Okay, If you can show me where lots of people were baptized and filled with the Holy Ghost after a "Christian Rock" concert then I will quit what I believe about Christian Rock.
BrotherEastman
10-17-2014, 08:07 AM
And it's this attitude that divides and conquers the body of christ. Do you realize how much music has changed over the last 2000 years? Styles change and evolve. There were prob people with your same attitude towards baroque music when it was new. When slave type call and repeat songs began to influence gospel i'm sure there were "die-hards" that wanted no part of that either. Maybe some of y'all should find a church that doesn't have any music at all. Strick acapella with no music and be sure its the type of music that the Apostles would have listened to. No western scales or chords allowed. No drums, no piano, no mics... I mean seriously, you have no idea how foolish you sound. What you call "ok" wasn't "ok" to those who came before you.
And to keep assuming all that favor a particular style of music are lost and that Christian "rockers" couldn't cut it in the real world? Some of you are flat out wrong in your outlook and spirit.
I have this attitude for a reason, I came out of the the world with rock music why would I want to go back to it?????? You are blind if you think that christian rock is a wonderful tool of outreach. I've never heard of anyone getting saved at a rock concert.
BrotherEastman
10-17-2014, 08:39 AM
read this http://www.av1611.org/crock.html
obriencp
10-17-2014, 09:26 AM
I have this attitude for a reason, I came out of the the world with rock music why would I want to go back to it?????? You are blind if you think that christian rock is a wonderful tool of outreach. I've never heard of anyone getting saved at a rock concert.
In all sincerity, we praise God you were saved from the world. That's a great testimony to be able to share. It's prob a good thing that you choose to abstain from what the world, and some churches, offer musically as it reminds you of the past.
Christian rock is one of the tools of outreach, not necessarily the best tool. Whether or not it's "wonderful" is subjective. I cannot offer proof of anyone being saved at a Christian Rock concert, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
Do you realize how much music has changed over the last 2000 years? Styles change and evolve. There were prob people with your same attitude towards baroque music when it was new. When slave type call and repeat songs began to influence gospel i'm sure there were "die-hards" that wanted no part of that either. Maybe some of y'all should find a church that doesn't have any music at all. Strick acapella with no music and be sure its the type of music that the Apostles would have listened to. No western scales or chords allowed. No drums, no piano, no mics...
Do you care to address how other forms of music have evolved and how there was, undoubtedly, resistance from the religious cons of the time? I know it would be difficult to do discuss this as there probably isn't a historical account. However, this doesn't detract from my argument that there is change and not all change is bad. If you listen to classical music, some is sacred some is secular, but it all sounds like classical music. If that was the popular music of the time, what separated it? The subject matter or lyrics made the music fall into one category or the other. The same is true today. There are similar instruments, beats, chord progressions, electronic aids, etc in both sacred and secular music. The subject and lyrics is what separates them into the two categories. The music we hold as pure and holy today, has evolved from things viewed as worldly and "evil" in times past.
read this http://www.av1611.org/crock.html
I did peruse this page and it's very informational. People are people and even saved folks make mistakes. I doubt most will take the time to research all the artists they like and see where they stand doctrinally and examine every facet of their life for sin. Do we stop singing "happy birthday" because the person who wrote it might have been a sinner?
If you want to reject some genres of music because of personal conviction, I understand. But if you're going to make blanket statements about christian rock and it helping young people to be lost, then maybe you should stop listening to anything written/performed by people that aren't OPs or have ever sinned. This will eliminate everything ever performed unless you have original transcripts from the heavenly songs John heard during his revelations.
Wonder
10-17-2014, 01:13 PM
Ya know, I don't often post on here. Also, I am not a good debater at all and have many things to learn myself. And if this post is scattered I apologize. :nod
However, I wanted to say that I do not agree with secular music in church. I do not agree with christian rock, rap or other such. How does come out from among them and be ye separate fit here. If we use this type of music, how are we being separate from the world. There is a spirit it seems that comes with this genre of music, that you cannot pin down but can feel all the same. Some of that music is more like going into a trance. This type of music seems to let you feel casual about God and church in general. If you notice in those clips posted everyone is casual in dress. It seems to me to be a rock concert , not church. This music does not enhance my walk with God.
This probably brings another issue about casual dress, but I believe that we should give God our best in everything, that includes dress. When my spouse and I go out , we try to look our best for each other. I believe the same holds for specifically meeting with God.
In church, usually the order is fervent prayer time before the service, followed by singing and worship, then preaching of the word. Each step leads to the next , the singing and worship in my opinion is to give God praise and prepare our hearts. If we are truly giving our all in worship, it then gets our heart ready to receive the word. When the word comes forth sometimes it is exhort , but sometimes it is reprove and rebuke. When we worship God right then we are not in a carnal mind and the word can be more effective. The preaching of the word needs to be spiritually discerned.
1Co_2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
The worship, music and preaching should have a clear note and a certain sound.
1Co_14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
If we have a problem distinguishing the church music from the worldly music then what good is it. If the music does not instill a love, praise and reverence for God then it is no good. (And I don't mean sappy or trancelike). In my opinion music is one of satan's greatest tools to utilize. Just because it says Jesus in the song does not mean it is good.
I don't believe we need to conform to the world to reach young people.
Rom_12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Why in the world would we try to imitate what we were delivered from?
Give me the old paths wherein is the good way !
Just to walk with him, means everything to me
And just to know he's there and his hand is leading me
Tho , this world may pass me by and go their way
Let it be
For just to walk with him means everything to me.
Michael The Disciple
10-17-2014, 01:16 PM
Once again a thread about Christian music and secular music has turned into Christian music vs Christian music. I think most must not know what "secular" music is.
So as far as Christian Rock its something that I like. Its not just about using it to get kids in Church. Many of the most edifying experiences I have have been songs I heard that honored Christ sometimes just when I needed it the most.
As far as the link about so called Christian Rock, well yea that exposes error and even sin among some who play it. But of those he scours is maybe far less than one percent of those who have done Christian rock.
I myself dropped out of Christian rock around 1993. I felt there was a great deterioration in it. Since then I may have bought no more than three or four albums of it.
So its very little time I spend in it. But to me a lot of music has went down since that time. The true Charismatic music which was the greatest of modern times vanished by the mid 90's.
The Contemporary music played on K LOVE is neither Christian rock or Charismatic music. In my walk the hymnal type music was mainly good for putting one to sleep or draining the zeal out of a person. With EXCEPTIONS of course.
The kind of music played in Pentecostal Churches when I first started going was perhaps a bit better than the hymns but when I found Christian rock and Charismatic music I never looked back the difference was so great.
BrotherEastman
10-17-2014, 01:27 PM
In all sincerity, we praise God you were saved from the world. That's a great testimony to be able to share. It's prob a good thing that you choose to abstain from what the world, and some churches, offer musically as it reminds you of the past.
Christian rock is one of the tools of outreach, not necessarily the best tool. Whether or not it's "wonderful" is subjective. I cannot offer proof of anyone being saved at a Christian Rock concert, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
Do you care to address how other forms of music have evolved and how there was, undoubtedly, resistance from the religious cons of the time? I know it would be difficult to do discuss this as there probably isn't a historical account. However, this doesn't detract from my argument that there is change and not all change is bad. If you listen to classical music, some is sacred some is secular, but it all sounds like classical music. If that was the popular music of the time, what separated it? The subject matter or lyrics made the music fall into one category or the other. The same is true today. There are similar instruments, beats, chord progressions, electronic aids, etc in both sacred and secular music. The subject and lyrics is what separates them into the two categories. The music we hold as pure and holy today, has evolved from things viewed as worldly and "evil" in times past.
I did peruse this page and it's very informational. People are people and even saved folks make mistakes. I doubt most will take the time to research all the artists they like and see where they stand doctrinally and examine every facet of their life for sin. Do we stop singing "happy birthday" because the person who wrote it might have been a sinner?
If you want to reject some genres of music because of personal conviction, I understand. But if you're going to make blanket statements about christian rock and it helping young people to be lost, then maybe you should stop listening to anything written/performed by people that aren't OPs or have ever sinned. This will eliminate everything ever performed unless you have original transcripts from the heavenly songs John heard during his revelations.
yeah, PERUSE the link, I wouldn't actually want you to learn anything.
Michael The Disciple
10-17-2014, 01:38 PM
Wonder
If the music does not instill a love, praise and reverence for God then it is no good.
Exactly! And thats why I prefer Older Charismatic, Messianic, and Christian rock because it has done just that.
BrotherEastman
10-17-2014, 01:45 PM
Disciple[/B];1339453]Exactly! And thats why I prefer Older Charismatic, Messianic, and Christian rock because it has done just that.
In your clouded judgement maybe. But Christian Rock never glorifies God by using worldly music background.
Wonder
10-17-2014, 01:48 PM
Skip ahead past the intro to 1:20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vjbbw4IQKHQ&feature=youtu.be
Michael The Disciple
10-17-2014, 01:53 PM
yeah, PERUSE the link, I wouldn't actually want you to learn anything.
Hi Bro Eastman,
I read much of the very long link. It has some good points. And yet again it distorts much. Apparently you have very little experience with other Christian music beside what you listen to which so far you have not revealed.
Remember you said that we should not listen to false disciples period?
Well I followed the link to their statement of faith.
Here is one point of it.
We believe God is a trinity, which consists of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
Trinitarianism
Heres another.
We believe eternal life is the free gift of God to "whosoever will" through faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ — PLUS NOTHING. Ephesians 2:8,9
Once saved a free ticket to Heaven REGARDLESS.
So it looks as if you are learning from false disciples!
BrotherEastman
10-17-2014, 04:10 PM
Hi Bro Eastman,
I read much of the very long link. It has some good points. And yet again it distorts much. Apparently you have very little experience with other Christian music beside what you listen to which so far you have not revealed.
Remember you said that we should not listen to false disciples period?
Well I followed the link to their statement of faith.
Here is one point of it.
We believe God is a trinity, which consists of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
Trinitarianism
Heres another.
We believe eternal life is the free gift of God to "whosoever will" through faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ — PLUS NOTHING. Ephesians 2:8,9
Once saved a free ticket to Heaven REGARDLESS.
So it looks as if you are learning from false disciples!
Actually, you were the one who said you would not listen to false disciples.....not me. I simply asked if you "if you wouldn't listen to false prophets, then why would you listen to false disciples?".....see, I asked the question I didn't make the statement.
BrotherEastman
10-17-2014, 04:17 PM
I contend that Christian Rock has never saved anyone nor does it glorify God.
Michael The Disciple
10-17-2014, 04:18 PM
Actually, you were the one who said you would not listen to false disciples.....not me. I simply asked if you "if you wouldn't listen to false prophets, then why would you listen to false disciples?".....see, I asked the question I didn't make the statement.
Hmmmm.....Well I will check back what I said later. In the meantime I want to say to you, peace and love!:highfive
BrotherEastman
10-17-2014, 04:20 PM
Hmmmm.....Well I will check back what I said later. In the meantime I want to say to you, peace and love!:highfive
Michael, I still consider you a brother in Christ, I just don't agree with your choice of music. I love ya!!!!
BrotherEastman
10-17-2014, 04:28 PM
By the way Michael, I love your teachings. I read quite a bit of your posts because they are enlightening.
Michael The Disciple
10-17-2014, 04:39 PM
By the way Michael, I love your teachings. I read quite a bit of your posts because they are enlightening.
Thanks Bro for the love!
Michael The Disciple
10-17-2014, 09:01 PM
Do you all consider this "secular"? I love this. Wish we had something like this here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uu4PjWlROr8
Wonder
10-18-2014, 12:27 AM
Do you all consider this "secular"? I love this. Wish we had something like this here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uu4PjWlROr8
Hey, that is cool. I don't know if it is secular because I have no idea what they are singing :happydance They could be singing anything. I can only assume that they are worshiping the one true God. It looks to be a heartfelt worship. But at this point for me only assumptions can be made.
They are The African Apostolic Church so I assume they follow the teachings of the apostles.
Anyway,
Quite enjoyable, It would be an interesting experience.
houston
10-18-2014, 07:48 AM
I contend that Christian Rock has never saved anyone nor does it glorify God. gospel music has not saved anyone
obriencp
10-18-2014, 08:50 AM
yeah, PERUSE the link, I wouldn't actually want you to learn anything.
Brother, I spent probably about 10 minutes reading it, but not the whole page.
BTW, did you even read my response? If you did, you'd realize that your bias against christian rock is not a new bias, but a bias that has come every time there has been a stylistic shift in secular and sacred music.
BrotherEastman
10-18-2014, 12:14 PM
gospel music has not saved anyone
Houston, you are probably right; however, when alter call music is played I doubt they use Christian Rock at the alter.
Abiding Now
10-18-2014, 01:26 PM
Did I mention I really enjoy Bro. Kenny G. Good stuff.
Michael The Disciple
10-18-2014, 02:50 PM
Houston, you are probably right; however, when alter call music is played I doubt they use Christian Rock at the alter.
Mark Farner used to always call the concert goers to repentance. He would be out praying for the sick and casting out demons, baptizing people in the Ohio River till 3am.
The first time I saw David and the Giants on TV they were preaching Acts 2:38. I saw them twice live and they preached strong holiness.
AR Pastor
10-18-2014, 03:17 PM
I contend that Christian Rock has never saved anyone nor does it glorify God.
:thumbsup
AR Pastor
10-18-2014, 03:22 PM
Skip ahead past the intro to 1:20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vjbbw4IQKHQ&feature=youtu.be
:thumbsup
Reader
10-18-2014, 04:16 PM
I contend that Christian Rock has never saved anyone nor does it glorify God.
I content that Christian music has never saved anyone. No music has. It is Jesus who saves as the Spirit draws people.
BrotherEastman
10-18-2014, 04:38 PM
I content that Christian music has never saved anyone. No music has. It is Jesus who saves as the Spirit draws people.
And I suppose you think God Uses Christian Rock to draw people? At least traditional Gospel music Glorifies God.
Michael The Disciple
10-18-2014, 04:54 PM
And I suppose you think God Uses Christian Rock to draw people? At least traditional Gospel music Glorifies God.
I will take it a bit farther. I would say at least SOME of the Christian Rock Im aware of sounds closer to what Heavens music will sound like than SOME traditional music!
Abiding Now
10-19-2014, 09:53 PM
I really joy Bro. Richard Clayerman on the piano.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lV6GVESBew&feature=player_detailpage
n david
10-20-2014, 07:48 AM
Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but most of our beloved hymns were former bar songs with rewritten lyrics.
God used an a s s to accomplish His purpose; who are we to claim He can't use country gospel, rock, or pop to do the same?
BrotherEastman
10-20-2014, 09:10 AM
not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but most of our beloved hymns were former bar songs with rewritten lyrics.
God used an a s s to accomplish his purpose; who are we to claim he can't use country gospel, rock, or pop to do the same?
prove it.
Miss Scarlett
10-20-2014, 09:12 AM
Just heard a wonderful message last night hitting on Gospel Rock music. Why draw the youth with Gospel Rock? Why don't we invite them to a special service with a young Pastor who ministers to the youth, and see how many come to hear the word of God.
Now bring a Rock Concert into the church and state that they can come as they are, and they will be on their feet rocking a grooving the house down. Just look at some of the video's that have been posted.
n david
10-20-2014, 10:21 AM
prove it.
About my first claim:
Francis (Fanny) Crosby was one of the most prolific hymn writers ever, having penned the lyrics to something like 9,000 hymns, including many that are still favorites today including "Blessed Assurance", "Pass Me Not Oh Gentle Savior", and "Safe in the Arms of Jesus." One biography of Fanny Crosby (ISBN 1-55748-731-6) adds this tidbit:
"By the early 1870s, she was well on her way to becoming the queen of hymn writers. Fanny often matched her poems to familiar tunes. An example is "We Thank Thee, Our Father," written to the melody of the famous "Adeste Fidelis." She set poems to Scottish and Welsh airs and used tunes by Stephen Foster."
Furthermore, the founder of another very influential evangelical denomination used parodies, too. William Booth, founder of the Salvation Army, an extremely evangelical organization that did much to help the poor and the drunks in the streets, used the music of popular tunes for hymns. In the biography, "William and Catherine Booth: Founders of the Salvation Army," by Helen K. Hosier, it states the following:
"Satan would have to be battled within his own strongholds, and any means was justifiable, William decided, if it would attract sinners to listen to the message of salvation ... Thus it was that as the work grew, the music and street parades attracted increasing crowds of people who scorned the regular churches. 'Why should the devil have all the best tunes?' William replied when chided for appropriating music of popular tunes for his hymns ... "
"The saying that 'the devil has no right to all the good tunes' has been attributed to both William Booth and Charles Spurgeon. But it was George Scott Railton, who was to become William's lieutenant general in 1873 and was well-known as an author and songwriter, who concluded an article 'About Singing' (1874) with this impassioned plea: 'Oh, let us rescue this precious instrument from the clutches of the devil, and make it, as it may be made, a bright and lively power for good!'"
You really think God is somehow bound by stupid genres of music? That He cannot use a certain tune just because the guitar is too loud?
Not my God. He can use whatever or whomever, whenever or wherever He wants.
houston
10-20-2014, 10:54 AM
Bar form, not bar tunes. Haha
n david
10-20-2014, 12:15 PM
Bar form, not bar tunes. Haha
That was Wesley, and yes, popular mistake. Fanny Crosby and others have used popular songs as mentioned below.
BrotherEastman
10-20-2014, 12:48 PM
BIBLE GUIDELINES FOR CHRISTIAN MUSIC
CHRISTIAN MUSIC SHOULD PRAISE THE LORD JESUS CHRIST — NOT MAN
The LORD is my strength and my shield; my heart trusted in him, and I am helped: therefore my heart greatly rejoiceth; and with my SONG will I PRAISE him. Psalm 28:7
CHRISTIAN MUSIC IS FOR THE LORD — NOT FOR THE WORLD
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts TO THE LORD. Colossians 3:16
CHRISTIAN MUSIC IS A NEW SONG — NOT AN OLD SONG
I will sing a NEW SONG unto thee, O God: upon a psaltery and an instrument of ten strings will I sing praises unto thee. Psalm 144:9
CHRISTIAN MUSIC'S MESSAGE SHOULD BE CLEAR — NOT VAGUE OR DECEPTIVE
I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the UNDERSTANDING also. 1 Cor. 14:15
CHRISTIAN MUSIC SHOULD EMPHASIS THE MESSAGE — NOT THE MUSIC — NOR THE MUSICIAN
Sing forth the honour of his name: make his praise glorious. Psalm 66:2
CHRISTIAN MUSIC IS IN THE LOCAL CHURCH — NOT CONCERT HALLS, NIGHT CLUBS.
Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the CHURCH will I sing praise unto thee. Hebrew 2:12
CHRISTIAN MUSIC SHOULD FEED THE SPIRIT — NOT THE FLESH
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and SPIRITUAL songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. Colossians 3:16
CHRISTIAN MUSICIANS SHOULD BE DEDICATED TO THE LORD — NOT WORLDLY
18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; Ephesians 5:18-21
Esphes45
10-20-2014, 12:53 PM
In all sincerity, we praise God you were saved from the world. That's a great testimony to be able to share. It's prob a good thing that you choose to abstain from what the world, and some churches, offer musically as it reminds you of the past.
I will say this is Christian Rock reminds you of what you did in the past. The problem is not with the music, it is with you. Examine yourself.
Esphes45
10-20-2014, 01:01 PM
:thumbsup
How in the world can you all condemn a different expression of praise? Wow. Folks God made us all different. We don't all like the same type of ice cream.
So if I put the song Precious Lord to a rock beat, it is now "of the world"?
I am glad I do not go to a church that feels that way. :nod
The bible says "Let everything that has breath Praise ye the Lord".
I guess Christian Rock artists can't do that.
BrotherEastman
10-20-2014, 01:11 PM
About my first claim:
You really think God is somehow bound by stupid genres of music? That He cannot use a certain tune just because the guitar is too loud?
Not my God. He can use whatever or whomever, whenever or wherever He wants.
Howard Doane was an industrialist who became Crosby’s principal collaborator in writing gospel music,[220] composing melodies for an estimated 1,500 Crosby's lyrics.[219] Doane and Crosby collaborated through Biglow and Main, and also privately through Doane's Northern Baptist endeavours.[221] Eventually Crosby entrusted to Doane the business aspects of her compositions.[222]
courtesy of wikipedia
In early 1868 Crosby met millionaire Methodist Phoebe Palmer Knapp,[223] who was married to Joseph Fairchild Knapp, co-founder of the Metropolitan Life Insurance Company.[224] The Knapps published hymnals initially for use in the Sunday School of the St. John's Methodist Episcopal Church in Brooklyn, which was superintended by Joseph F. Knapp for 22 years,[225] while Phoebe Knapp took responsibility for 200 children in the infants' department.[226] They first collaborated on Notes of Joy,[227] the first hymnal edited by Knapp,[228] who also contributed 94 of the 172 tunes, and published by her brother Walter C. Palmer, Jr. in 1869.[229] Of the 21 hymns Crosby contributed to Notes of Joy, including eight as "The Children's Friend",[230] Knapp provided the music for fourteen of them. Their best-known collaboration was "Blessed Assurance", for which Crosby wrote words in the Knapps' music room for a tune written by Knapp,[231] while Crosby was staying at the Knapp Mansion in 1873.[4]
From 1871 to 1908, Crosby worked with Ira Sankey, who helped make her "a household name to Protestants around the world".[232] While Sankey was "the premier promoter" of gospel songs, "Crosby ranked first as their provider".[191] The evangelistic team of Sankey and Dwight L. Moody brought many of Crosby's hymns to the attention of Christians throughout the United States and Britain.[39] Crosby was close friends with Sankey and his wife, Frances, and often stayed with them at their home in Northfield, Massachusetts from 1886 for the annual summer Christian Workers' Conferences,[202] and later in their Brooklyn.[99] After Sankey's eyesight was destroyed by glaucoma in March 1903,[233] their friendship deepened and they often continued to compose hymns together at Sankey's harmonium in his home.[234]
You are right, you only made a CLAIM.
courtesy of wikipedia
n david
10-20-2014, 01:24 PM
BIBLE GUIDELINES FOR CHRISTIAN MUSIC
CHRISTIAN MUSIC SHOULD PRAISE THE LORD JESUS CHRIST — NOT MAN
The LORD is my strength and my shield; my heart trusted in him, and I am helped: therefore my heart greatly rejoiceth; and with my SONG will I PRAISE him. Psalm 28:7
CHRISTIAN MUSIC IS FOR THE LORD — NOT FOR THE WORLD
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts TO THE LORD. Colossians 3:16
No problem here. "Christian" music of all genres typically both praise God and are for the Lord, not the "world."
CHRISTIAN MUSIC IS A NEW SONG — NOT AN OLD SONG
I will sing a NEW SONG unto thee, O God: upon a psaltery and an instrument of ten strings will I sing praises unto thee. Psalm 144:9
Soooo, we can't sing old songs? :lol Every song should be something written new on the spot? No more Amazing Grace? No more At the Cross? I disagree with "Brother Billy."
CHRISTIAN MUSIC'S MESSAGE SHOULD BE CLEAR — NOT VAGUE OR DECEPTIVE
I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the UNDERSTANDING also. 1 Cor. 14:15
Again, typical of most Christian genres.
CHRISTIAN MUSIC SHOULD EMPHASIS THE MESSAGE — NOT THE MUSIC — NOR THE MUSICIAN
Sing forth the honour of his name: make his praise glorious. Psalm 66:2
A bit redundant, but yes, most genre's of Christian music meet this point.
CHRISTIAN MUSIC IS IN THE LOCAL CHURCH — NOT CONCERT HALLS, NIGHT CLUBS.
Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the CHURCH will I sing praise unto thee. Hebrew 2:12
Because "Church" means a building here, right? :nah The author, "Brother Billy," should read what the word "church" means. It's people, not a building. And no Christian music in concert halls? What about civic centers, convention centers, hotel BALLROOMS, or sports arenas?
CHRISTIAN MUSIC SHOULD FEED THE SPIRIT — NOT THE FLESH
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and SPIRITUAL songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. Colossians 3:16
Most genres of Christian music meet this.
CHRISTIAN MUSICIANS SHOULD BE DEDICATED TO THE LORD — NOT WORLDLY
18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; 19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; Ephesians 5:18-21
A bit of a twist of scripture, since these verses aren't specifically about musicians, but about Christians in general.
Source Link (http://discerningmusic.wordpress.com/2009/04/21/bible-guidelines-for-christian-music/)
n david
10-20-2014, 01:28 PM
You are right, you only made a CLAIM.
Which is backed by biographies written of Crosby and the Booths, or did you read that part?
One biography of Fanny Crosby (ISBN 1-55748-731-6) adds this tidbit:
"By the early 1870s, she was well on her way to becoming the queen of hymn writers. Fanny often matched her poems to familiar tunes. An example is "We Thank Thee, Our Father," written to the melody of the famous "Adeste Fidelis." She set poems to Scottish and Welsh airs and used tunes by Stephen Foster."
In the biography, "William and Catherine Booth: Founders of the Salvation Army," by Helen K. Hosier, it states the following:
"Satan would have to be battled within his own strongholds, and any means was justifiable, William decided, if it would attract sinners to listen to the message of salvation ... Thus it was that as the work grew, the music and street parades attracted increasing crowds of people who scorned the regular churches. 'Why should the devil have all the best tunes?' William replied when chided for appropriating music of popular tunes for his hymns ... "
:dogpat
Miss Scarlett
10-20-2014, 01:42 PM
http://rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/rockm/satanic.htm
n david
10-20-2014, 02:37 PM
http://dysfunctionalparrot.com/god/christian-rock/
Great stuff.
Do a google search of "Christian Rock Evil" and wow, the wing-nuts really start flying out the hardware store. So much so that I have to wonder, "have these people even listened to any?" I'm immediately reminded of John Lithgow's character in Footloose who felt every evil impulse in the young was the fault of the "devil's music."
Music is like an old sweater. It's broken in, cozy, and there's no way we want to trade it in for a new scratchy one off the rack. While we all have our preferences, it's rather egocentric to conclude that our music is the only appropriate expression of glory to our creator. Sometimes people just want to buy a new sweater. Hey, I sometimes like a quiet hymn too. But I sometimes like to grab my Stratocaster and crank out some Lincoln Brewster with the volume turned up to 11.
If loud beats and dancing are the signs of evil, then we better dig up King David, roundhouse kick his remains and throw him back in the hole. The King of Rock had nothing on the King of Israel. The energy and beat of middle-eastern music can make a Nirvana mosh-pit look like an evening playing Dutch Blitz with your grandma. David danced with a towel around his waist in the streets with such energy that his own wife was disgusted at him.
Much like "King James Onlyism," we can easily run the risk of associating one style of music with holiness and condemning the expression of the next generation simply because we equate our personal comfort level as a seal of approval from God. For the sake of the greater body of believers we need to accept that not everyone can run at the same speed.
n david
10-20-2014, 02:44 PM
Bottom line, as long as it's to bring glory to God, there is nothing wrong with various genres of Christian music.
What we're really discussing are personal preferences, not Biblical mandates. The music my parents listened to in church was likely viewed as rebellious to their parents; and likewise my Christian music was indeed viewed as rebellious to them. And I'm sure the music my daughter listens to, when she gets older, will be something I'll probably hate.
Give me Amazing Grace with a pipe organ, or the same song with an electric guitar and the lyrics are still the same. Drop a beat and put a spin on it with some rhymes and it's still an incredible song.
The author of the article I posted above this hit the nail on the head...this argument is like those who claim the King James version of the Bible is the only true version everyone should read.
houston
10-20-2014, 02:52 PM
Would Eastman like to post examples of acceptable music?
BrotherEastman
10-20-2014, 03:14 PM
Bottom line, as long as it's to bring glory to God, there is nothing wrong with various genres of Christian music.
What we're really discussing are personal preferences, not Biblical mandates. The music my parents listened to in church was likely viewed as rebellious to their parents; and likewise my Christian music was indeed viewed as rebellious to them. And I'm sure the music my daughter listens to, when she gets older, will be something I'll probably hate.
Give me Amazing Grace with a pipe organ, or the same song with an electric guitar and the lyrics are still the same. Drop a beat and put a spin on it with some rhymes and it's still an incredible song.
The author of the article I posted above this hit the nail on the head...this argument is like those who claim the King James version of the Bible is the only true version everyone should read.
Bottom line you say???????? Most Christian Rock doesn't glorify God, it glorifies man as I have many times pointed out. NEXT!!!
n david
10-20-2014, 03:28 PM
Bottom line you say???????? Most Christian Rock doesn't glorify God, it glorifies man as I have many times pointed out. NEXT!!!
Name one Christian rock song which does what you claim.
Pendragon
10-20-2014, 03:43 PM
Would Eastman like to post examples of acceptable music?
It won't happen, because subconsciously he knows he probably isn't even living up to his own standards. This troll is your typical ultra-conservative who sets impossible standards rooted in obscure, handed-down traditions and erroneous interpretation of scripture. To live this way you must blind yourself to your own failings. I grew up in a church full of this kind of thing. They spout a lot of scripture but 'rightly dividing the Word' and 'searching the scriptures daily to see if these things are so' is not as important as following a man who they assume is rightly dividing the Word. It's a culture of preacher-worship and there is no love of Truth.
Michael The Disciple
10-20-2014, 04:46 PM
Would Eastman like to post examples of acceptable music?
I really enjoy posting songs that I like.
David And The Giants
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J79De4xej8
Michael The Disciple
10-20-2014, 05:12 PM
My Apostolic Friends,
I guarantee this song will be sung in Heaven! Is it "Charismatic" or is is "secular"? It is taken from the prophetic book of Revelation.
The Song Of Moses And The Lamb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWM6EIYlaZE
Michael The Disciple
10-20-2014, 05:22 PM
Would these Messianic singers be welcome in an Apostolic Church? Or would this be Charismatic?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zzwygXYPKU
Michael The Disciple
10-20-2014, 06:35 PM
http://rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/rockm/satanic.htm
Ok so according to him THIS is satanic. Shall we take a peek and see if he could be right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFmiWFfxDPc&list=PLb6rc7MzpEmErQcqgov-mWm9kT8es09DE&index=38
n david
10-20-2014, 07:43 PM
Ok so according to him THIS is satanic. Shall we take a peek and see if he could be right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFmiWFfxDPc&list=PLb6rc7MzpEmErQcqgov-mWm9kT8es09DE&index=38
OMG...He's right!
:toofunny
BrotherEastman
10-20-2014, 07:50 PM
Name one Christian rock song which does what you claim.
if you would have read the links I gave you, I wouldn't have to give examples.
BrotherEastman
10-20-2014, 07:52 PM
It won't happen, because subconsciously he knows he probably isn't even living up to his own standards. This troll is your typical ultra-conservative who sets impossible standards rooted in obscure, handed-down traditions and erroneous interpretation of scripture. To live this way you must blind yourself to your own failings. I grew up in a church full of this kind of thing. They spout a lot of scripture but 'rightly dividing the Word' and 'searching the scriptures daily to see if these things are so' is not as important as following a man who they assume is rightly dividing the Word. It's a culture of preacher-worship and there is no love of Truth.
you have 115 posts and you call me a troll???????:smack
BrotherEastman
10-20-2014, 08:02 PM
To all who listen to Christian Rock.........I hope the Lord blesses you continually as I do not know your hearts nor did I pretend to. With all the research I have done on the matter of CR, I personally am not comfortable with it and it grieves MY spirit. I hope that you are continually blessed as you listen to whatever music you feel comfortable with. I love you all.....God bless. Lets just agree to disagree.
BrotherEastman
10-20-2014, 08:39 PM
Ok so according to him THIS is satanic. Shall we take a peek and see if he could be right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFmiWFfxDPc&list=PLb6rc7MzpEmErQcqgov-mWm9kT8es09DE&index=38
Where is Jesus or God ever mentioned even once??????? I listened to the whole thing and honestly there was nothing uplifting about God Himself.
n david
10-20-2014, 09:41 PM
To all who listen to Christian Rock.........I hope the Lord blesses you continually as I do not know your hearts nor did I pretend to. With all the research I have done on the matter of CR, I personally am not comfortable with it and it grieves MY spirit. I hope that you are continually blessed as you listen to whatever music you feel comfortable with. I love you all.....God bless. Lets just agree to disagree.
So you admit it's a personal conviction, not a Biblical doctrine. I can respect that.
I have a personal conviction against hillbilly, metal and rap music. :nod
n david
10-20-2014, 09:49 PM
if you would have read the links I gave you, I wouldn't have to give examples.
I see one link from you, which is to a blog complaining about Amy Grant's song Baby Baby. Do you know when Baby Baby was released? 1991.
You should at least find something a bit more up to date.
:lol
obriencp
10-21-2014, 06:47 AM
Bottom line, as long as it's to bring glory to God, there is nothing wrong with various genres of Christian music.
What we're really discussing are personal preferences, not Biblical mandates. The music my parents listened to in church was likely viewed as rebellious to their parents; and likewise my Christian music was indeed viewed as rebellious to them. And I'm sure the music my daughter listens to, when she gets older, will be something I'll probably hate.
Give me Amazing Grace with a pipe organ, or the same song with an electric guitar and the lyrics are still the same. Drop a beat and put a spin on it with some rhymes and it's still an incredible song.
The author of the article I posted above this hit the nail on the head...this argument is like those who claim the King James version of the Bible is the only true version everyone should read.
Yes! Thank you N David those were similar to the points i was trying to make with my earlier replies below.
Do you care to address how other forms of music have evolved and how there was, undoubtedly, resistance from the religious cons of the time? I know it would be difficult to do discuss this as there probably isn't a historical account. However, this doesn't detract from my argument that there is change and not all change is bad. If you listen to classical music, some is sacred some is secular, but it all sounds like classical music. If that was the popular music of the time, what separated it? The subject matter or lyrics made the music fall into one category or the other. The same is true today. There are similar instruments, beats, chord progressions, electronic aids, etc in both sacred and secular music. The subject and lyrics is what separates them into the two categories. The music we hold as pure and holy today, has evolved from things viewed as worldly and "evil" in times past.
I did peruse this page and it's very informational. People are people and even saved folks make mistakes. I doubt most will take the time to research all the artists they like and see where they stand doctrinally and examine every facet of their life for sin. Do we stop singing "happy birthday" because the person who wrote it might have been a sinner?
If you want to reject some genres of music because of personal conviction, I understand. But if you're going to make blanket statements about christian rock and it helping young people to be lost, then maybe you should stop listening to anything written/performed by people that aren't OPs or have ever sinned. This will eliminate everything ever performed unless you have original transcripts from the heavenly songs John heard during his revelations.
BTW, did you even read my response? If you did, you'd realize that your bias against christian rock is not a new bias, but a bias that has come every time there has been a stylistic shift in secular and sacred music.
BrotherEastman
10-21-2014, 07:39 AM
So you admit it's a personal conviction, not a Biblical doctrine. I can respect that.
I have a personal conviction against hillbilly, metal and rap music. :nod
personal conviction, yes. Sin, maybe.
Pendragon
10-21-2014, 07:54 AM
you have 115 posts and you call me a troll???????:smack
Let me see...one-liner replies to well-presented arguments; copy/pasting material from other sites rather than providing your own arguments; complete lack of critical thinking and logic in the arguments you do present, indicating you didn't put much thought into them...yeah I'd say you fit the definition. You're just a really OLD troll. It looks like you're just here to keep the flames fueled, not add anything of value to either yourself or others. Again, this is also a hallmark of the ultra-cons I used to know. They are so certain they are right that they don't bother to actually THINK about what they are saying.
And I fit the definition of 'troll' how...? Simply because I don't blast off as many one-liners as you, thus reducing my overall number of posts? I prefer to comment only on things I know and/or care about, with substantive posts. I also don't have a lot of time to spend on forums.
n david
10-21-2014, 08:59 AM
personal conviction, yes. Sin, maybe.
Sin? Prove it.
Do you also believe the KJV is the only true version of the Bible?
BrotherEastman
10-21-2014, 09:25 AM
since April 2011 you now have 116 posts. I don't see you offering anything substantive to this thread as of yet, nor have I seen anything from you that would indicate critical thinking on your part. You haven't addressed any of my posts or addressed any of the links I have provided. AND I'M THE TROLL??????? If you aren't too busy why don't you enlighten me on this subject. I dare say that you haven't given the subject much thought or PRAYER. None of the arguments from your supposed view have been well presented as you have said. All I see is Christian Rock as some sort of SUBSTITUTE to the real thing. Even in Michael's last link to a song doesn't even mention God or Jesus in the lyrics (most of them don't). So why should I sit back and endorse CR??????? You tell me since you have all the answers.
BrotherEastman
10-21-2014, 09:27 AM
Sin? Prove it.
Do you also believe the KJV is the only true version of the Bible?
I said maybe. And yes, I read other versions of the bible. Does that make you feel better????????
BrotherEastman
10-21-2014, 09:28 AM
Sin? Prove it.
Do you also believe the KJV is the only true version of the Bible?
Can you prove that CR is NOT sin?????? Anything that does not glorify God could be sinful.
Pendragon
10-21-2014, 10:21 AM
since April 2011 you now have 116 posts. I don't see you offering anything substantive to this thread as of yet, nor have I seen anything from you that would indicate critical thinking on your part.
See pages 6 and 8 of this thread for my posts on the topic.
Also, you can click on my user profile and select Statistics and Find All Posts or Threads to view previous substantive posts about other topics.
I dare say that you haven't given the subject much thought or PRAYER.
:) Really? This is indeed a daring thing to say - some might say brash - since you have no way of knowing if I have prayed about it. As to my thoughts, they can be found on pages 6 and 8.
obriencp
10-21-2014, 10:39 AM
Can you prove that CR is NOT sin?????? Anything that does not glorify God could be sinful.
this just keeps getting better. If CR is a sin to you, it's because of YOUR convictions. There is no scripture to back this up.
There are things we do everyday that don't glorify God. Are eating, sleeping, using the restroom, driving to work, brushing your teeth sinful now?
BrotherEastman
10-21-2014, 11:02 AM
this just keeps getting better. If CR is a sin to you, it's because of YOUR convictions. There is no scripture to back this up.
There are things we do everyday that don't glorify God. Are eating, sleeping, using the restroom, driving to work, brushing your teeth sinful now?
which is why I said COULD be sinful. Pay attention, you just might learn something. lol
n david
10-21-2014, 11:23 AM
Can you prove that CR is NOT sin?????? Anything that does not glorify God could be sinful.
So then everything we do must glorify God? Do you golf? Fish? Play any board games or card games? Do you go on vacation or visit amusement parks? Be careful, because that could be sinful.
I dare say the majority of what's currently labeled christian rock does glorify God in their lyrics.
Here are some bands labeled as Christian Rock, whose lyrics absolutely glorify God:
Casting Crowns
Newsboys
Third Day
MercyMe
Kutless
David Crowder Band
Tenth Avenue North
Jeremy Camp
Hillsong United
Building 429
Michael W. Smith
Jimmy Needham
Sonicflood
BrotherEastman
10-21-2014, 12:54 PM
So then everything we do must glorify God? Do you golf? Fish? Play any board games or card games? Do you go on vacation or visit amusement parks? Be careful, because that could be sinful.
I dare say the majority of what's currently labeled christian rock does glorify God in their lyrics.
Here are some bands labeled as Christian Rock, whose lyrics absolutely glorify God:
Casting Crowns
Newsboys
Third Day
MercyMe
Kutless
David Crowder Band
Tenth Avenue North
Jeremy Camp
Hillsong United
Building 429
Michael W. Smith
Jimmy Needham
Sonicflood
okay
Michael The Disciple
10-21-2014, 06:04 PM
Where is Jesus or God ever mentioned even once??????? I listened to the whole thing and honestly there was nothing uplifting about God Himself.
I never cease to be amazed:heeheehee
Ever heard the saying "Our God is an all consuming fire"?
Nothing uplifting God? Ok.
Miss Scarlett
10-21-2014, 08:03 PM
there's some people who will accept anything as being Christian. That's why we are warned of wolves in sheep clothing.
Esaias
10-21-2014, 09:50 PM
So then everything we do must glorify God? Do you golf? Fish? Play any board games or card games? Do you go on vacation or visit amusement parks? Be careful, because that could be sinful.
I dare say the majority of what's currently labeled christian rock does glorify God in their lyrics.
Here are some bands labeled as Christian Rock, whose lyrics absolutely glorify God:
Casting Crowns
Newsboys
Third Day
MercyMe
Kutless
David Crowder Band
Tenth Avenue North
Jeremy Camp
Hillsong United
Building 429
Michael W. Smith
Jimmy Needham
Sonicflood
When Paul said whatsoever you do... do all to the glory of God... he didn't mean whatsoever and all?
obriencp
10-22-2014, 04:49 AM
Can you prove that CR is NOT sin?????? Anything that does not glorify God could be sinful.
this just keeps getting better. If CR is a sin to you, it's because of YOUR convictions. There is no scripture to back this up.
There are things we do everyday that don't glorify God. Are eating, sleeping, using the restroom, driving to work, brushing your teeth sinful now?
which is why I said COULD be sinful. Pay attention, you just might learn something. lol
I find that when people are on the defensive they tend to say things without really thinking about what they're saying. I pointed out to you that everyday mundane activities are not sinful and you came back with a snarky comment? Unbelievable... and you want me to learn something.
So then everything we do must glorify God? Do you golf? Fish? Play any board games or card games? Do you go on vacation or visit amusement parks? Be careful, because that could be sinful.
I dare say the majority of what's currently labeled christian rock does glorify God in their lyrics.
Here are some bands labeled as Christian Rock, whose lyrics absolutely glorify God:
Casting Crowns
Newsboys
Third Day
MercyMe
Kutless
David Crowder Band
Tenth Avenue North
Jeremy Camp
Hillsong United
Building 429
Michael W. Smith
Jimmy Needham
Sonicflood
:thumbsup
BrotherEastman
10-22-2014, 09:00 AM
I find that when people are on the defensive they tend to say things without really thinking about what they're saying. I pointed out to you that everyday mundane activities are not sinful and you came back with a snarky comment? Unbelievable... and you want me to learn something.
:thumbsup
Yeah, you argue so much better than I do, you win. :thumbsup
obriencp
10-22-2014, 09:11 AM
it's not about winning, per se, but we could do a better job with some tact and respectfullness. I'm sorry if I showed any disrespect.
barry72
10-22-2014, 09:20 AM
To those that say " A true Apostolic doesn't listen to worldly music"...does a true Apostolic look at worldly art? Do you wear worldly clothes?
Esaias
10-22-2014, 11:15 AM
Paul said all things are meant for us and that we can use the world though not abusively. In other words, if something is not pagan or otherwise demonic or antichrist (ie "neutral") then it can be used or enjoyed by a saint, all things being equal.
However we are commanded to maintain our separation (holiness) while also giving no offense to Jews, Gentiles, or the Church of God. Also not all that is lawful is expedient or wise.
Michael The Disciple
10-22-2014, 01:49 PM
To those that say " A true Apostolic doesn't listen to worldly music"...does a true Apostolic look at worldly art? Do you wear worldly clothes?
Hi Barry. Heres my problem with this thread. Its supposed to be Apostolic and SECULAR music. I think many Apostolics like on this thread think "secular" means any kind of music that is not old hymns or Pentecostal songs.
Michael The Disciple
10-22-2014, 01:50 PM
Paul said all things are meant for us and that we can use the world though not abusively. In other words, if something is not pagan or otherwise demonic or antichrist (ie "neutral") then it can be used or enjoyed by a saint, all things being equal.
However we are commanded to maintain our separation (holiness) while also giving no offense to Jews, Gentiles, or the Church of God. Also not all that is lawful is expedient or wise.
Amen:highfive
Michael The Disciple
10-22-2014, 07:35 PM
Lets try this:
Secular Or Apostolic?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va1kwzIH2AM
Esphes45
10-22-2014, 08:34 PM
Hi Barry. Heres my problem with this thread. Its supposed to be Apostolic and SECULAR music. I think many Apostolics like on this thread think "secular" means any kind of music that is not old hymns or Pentecostal songs.
:nod
Miss Scarlett
10-23-2014, 08:16 AM
Lets try this:
Secular Or Apostolic?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va1kwzIH2AM
Bad :nod
n david
10-23-2014, 09:23 AM
Lets try this:
Secular Or Apostolic?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va1kwzIH2AM
My ears! My ears!
:smack
:lol
Esaias
10-23-2014, 12:38 PM
Lets try this:
Secular Or Apostolic?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va1kwzIH2AM
Like a jewelled ring in a pig's snout lol.
Originalist
10-23-2014, 01:07 PM
Let's try this:
Secular or Apostolic?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4ga_M5Zdn4:
heeheehee
Sorry. I couldn't resist.
Michael The Disciple
10-23-2014, 04:16 PM
Let's try this:
Secular or Apostolic?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4ga_M5Zdn4:
heeheehee
Sorry. I couldn't resist.
A fantastic song that always made me think of the Lord.
Michael The Disciple
10-23-2014, 04:18 PM
Like a jewelled ring in a pig's snout lol.
Hmmmmm I guess I am a lot more different than "Apostolics" than even I thought.
I love that song sometimes singing it through the day.
Michael The Disciple
10-23-2014, 04:46 PM
My ears! My ears!
:smack
:lol
Here is a song written by the Louvin Bro's an old time country gospel singing group brought back alive by a secular group. To me it sounds beautiful.
It reminds me of my own life as a new convert. When I turned to Jesus my friends would come by and say "lets go get stoned". I would tell them I was going to stay home and read the Bible. They laughed and mocked.
telling me how much fun they were having.
Probably the worse was one night two guys I had run around with came and blew their horn till I came outside. These were two "bad" dudes. I was with them one night when they started a fight with some guys on the street.
It escalated until one of them was stabbed and other took a log chain and went chasing the other guys down the street. With them it was normal to do these things.
They began demanding that I go get drunk with them. Now one of them at that present time was a Police officer in our township. The other his brother was just always bad news.
God gave me wonderful grace to tell them I had become a believer in Jesus! I got to witness to them strong. They demanded and intimidated but Jesus had been so good to me I was really in love with him. So they gave up letting me know how I was really missing out.
The one that was a cop came back another time trying to get me to go and do drugs with him. Again God used it for a witness. Several years later I saw him again and he still laughed at my testimony.
So I have a soft spot for this song. It has nice music. Excellent words. It brings back memories of a new convert standing his ground under fire.
Last of all the lead singer of the Byrds Roger Mguinn is now a believer in Jesus himself.
Michael The Disciple
10-23-2014, 05:18 PM
Let's try this:
Secular or Apostolic?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4ga_M5Zdn4:
heeheehee
Sorry. I couldn't resist.
I would challenge anyone to find a song that is more Biblical than this. Except for the last sentence it is entirely scripture!
vBulletin® v3.8.5, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.