Apostolics with Different Standards

[aaronliford07]

What do you think about my suggestions?

http://aaronliford.com/post/99520196015/how-to-interact-with-apostolics-with-different

[KWSS1976]

To tell you the truth that is one reason we left our Apostolic church was my wife was noticing so of the women in the church, cutting there hair,wearing dresses to short, ETC,ETC,ETC I have no problem with it myself I am a come to church how you are type, but it is hard to watch it happen when it is also being preached against..My issue comes when you start trying to qoute scripture to back the way you dress knowing good and well it does not mean that..But some want to hold on to the Old Paths so let em..

[aaronliford07]

To tell you the truth that is one reason we left our Apostolic church was my wife was noticing so of the women in the church, cutting there hair,wearing dresses to short, ETC,ETC,ETC I have no problem with it myself I am a come to church how you are type, but it is hard to watch it happen when it is also being preached against..My issue comes when you start trying to qoute scripture to back the way you dress knowing good and well it does not mean that..But some want to hold on to the Old Paths so let em..

Well I am definitely not against the standards that we are taught. But I do agree with you. There is an issue if it being preached against but then people turn around and do it anyways. That is hypocritical.

What scripture was you referring to that is quoted about standards but doesn't actually mean it?

[Esphes45]

What do you think about my suggestions?

http://aaronliford.com/post/99520196015/how-to-interact-with-apostolics-with-different


So basically you are saying let each Apostolic church do what they feel, monitor their own folks and leave other apostolic churches alone.


I have a huge problem with that. It's not truth. God did not come here so everyone could have their own opinions and set up churches according to them. There is one church, one body.

1 Corinth. 1:10 - Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.


We are not suppose to be on our own separate islands. We are suppose to be unified.

The problem with Apostolic churches are these blanket standards to which people are judged by.

For example, most apostolic churches condemn "short skirts". They will pound you to death as to not wear them, if you do you are of your Father the devil if you do. That is not what they should be doing. They should preach/teach modesty and let people make their own personal standard.

The bible tells us to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. It does not say for the church to work it out.

So in a nutshell, how can we all come together as one. Get rid of these made up standards, stick to the Word and let the Holy Ghost that God gives his people lead us to perfection.

[Aquila]

So basically you are saying let each Apostolic church do what they feel, monitor their own folks and leave other apostolic churches alone.


I have a huge problem with that. It's not truth. God did not come here so everyone could have their own opinions and set up churches according to them. There is one church, one body.

1 Corinth. 1:10 - Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.


We are not suppose to be on our own separate islands. We are suppose to be unified.

The problem with Apostolic churches are these blanket standards to which people are judged by.

For example, most apostolic churches condemn "short skirts". They will pound you to death as to not wear them, if you do you are of your Father the devil if you do. That is not what they should be doing. They should preach/teach modesty and let people make their own personal standard.

The bible tells us to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. It does not say for the church to work it out.

So in a nutshell, how can we all come together as one. Get rid of these made up standards, stick to the Word and let the Holy Ghost that God gives his people lead us to perfection.

I've befriended some Christian Quakers who strongly believe that individuals should be allowed and encouraged to individually follow the leading of the Spirit in many of these areas as it might relate to them individually. That's called... a personal relationship with God.

[KWSS1976]

Arron, Deuteronomy 22:5 is one I am referring to

[aaronliford07]

So basically you are saying let each Apostolic church do what they feel, monitor their own folks and leave other apostolic churches alone.


I have a huge problem with that. It's not truth. God did not come here so everyone could have their own opinions and set up churches according to them. There is one church, one body.

1 Corinth. 1:10 - Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.


We are not suppose to be on our own separate islands. We are suppose to be unified.

The problem with Apostolic churches are these blanket standards to which people are judged by.

For example, most apostolic churches condemn "short skirts". They will pound you to death as to not wear them, if you do you are of your Father the devil if you do. That is not what they should be doing. They should preach/teach modesty and let people make their own personal standard.

The bible tells us to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. It does not say for the church to work it out.

So in a nutshell, how can we all come together as one. Get rid of these made up standards, stick to the Word and let the Holy Ghost that God gives his people lead us to perfection.

I believe that we should all be unified and under one doctrine of standards. However, that is never going to happen. That's just reality.

What I was saying is that you as a SAINT have no obligation or authority to undermine what the pastor of another apostolic church or even your church is saying. Only the spiritual leaders (5 five fold ministry) has the obligation of teaching and rebuking. If you are not of the ministry then you have no obligation or authority to teach and rebuke. We are called to PREACH.

[Rudy]

I believe that we should all be unified and under one doctrine of standards. However, that is never going to happen. That's just reality.

What I was saying is that you as a SAINT have no obligation or authority to undermine what the pastor of another apostolic church or even your church is saying. Only the spiritual leaders (5 five fold ministry) has the obligation of teaching and rebuking. If you are not of the ministry then you have no obligation or authority to teach and rebuke. We are called to PREACH.

Jim Jones would agree with you. If they teach lies and will not repent they need to be voted out. We are told to watch out for wolves in sheep's clothing.

Does your church have a board of elders Or a one man show? Pastoring is a position of servanthood. Not of a dictator to rule.

[aaronliford07]

Jim Jones would agree with you. If they teach lies and will not repent they need to be voted out. We are told to watch out for wolves in sheep's clothing.

Does your church have a board of elders Or a one man show? Pastoring is a position of servanthood. Not of a dictator to rule.

I am in the UPC and my church does have a board.

[Michael The Disciple]

For example, most apostolic churches condemn "short skirts". They will pound you to death as to not wear them, if you do you are of your Father the devil if you do. That is not what they should be doing. They should preach/teach modesty and let people make their own personal standard.

How can short skirts be modest? Yes I think Christian women should be taught this. Better for them to wear loose pants than short skirts.

[FlamingZword]

I am in the UPC and my church does have a board.

I have noticed that most church boards are little more than rubber stamps for the pastor.

We need to make sure the Church boards have some real power.

[Esphes45]

I believe that we should all be unified and under one doctrine of standards. However, that is never going to happen. That's just reality.



Just so I'm clear, you are saying that 1 Corinth 1:10 is never going to happen?
I'm sad you feel that way. Very discouraging.

Why do you feel that way? Please elaborate.

[Esphes45]

I am in the UPC and my church does have a board.

I should have known.

[Esphes45]

I've befriended some Christian Quakers who strongly believe that individuals should be allowed and encouraged to individually follow the leading of the Spirit in many of these areas as it might relate to them individually. That's called... a personal relationship with God.

Good man. :yourock

Spirit and Truth is what will unify his people.

[Esphes45]

To tell you the truth that is one reason we left our Apostolic church was my wife was noticing so of the women in the church, cutting there hair,wearing dresses to short, ETC,ETC,ETC I have no problem with it myself I am a come to church how you are type, but it is hard to watch it happen when it is also being preached against.

How is that hard to watch? All a standard does it give people something to judge others by. Are we to judge? Also you are covering up wolves in sheep's clothing. You can put on the longest skirt there is and still be a devil inwardly. A long skirt force on you will not prick your heart to towards modesty.

I will never forget sitting in at home one day looking at my secular rap music tapes and the Lord showed me how can you listen to this type of music and say you love me? Since then I have never brought or willful listened to secular rap music. God did it in literally 5 minutes. The bible tells us to examine ourselves, not the church or preacher to examine you. The preacher job is to preach, it is my job to examine myself and work out my salvation.

[Jermyn Davidson]

How is that hard to watch? All a standard does it give people something to judge others by. Are we to judge? Also you are covering up wolves in sheep's clothing. You can put on the longest skirt there is and still be a devil inwardly. A long skirt force on you will not prick your heart to towards modesty.

I will never forget sitting in at home one day looking at my secular rap music tapes and the Lord showed me how can you listen to this type of music and say you love me? Since then I have never brought or willful listened to secular rap music. God did it in literally 5 minutes. The bible tells us to examine ourselves, not the church or preacher to examine you. The preacher job is to preach, it is my job to examine myself and work out my salvation.


Yes.

Within the Body of Christ, we do need to be able to correct those among us who are in error and, if necessary, shun them when they do not correct themselves once they are clearly shown the error of their ways.

On the contrary, we should not be attempting to judge the world.

[aaronliford07]

Just so I'm clear, you are saying that 1 Corinth 1:10 is never going to happen?
I'm sad you feel that way. Very discouraging.

Why do you feel that way? Please elaborate.

It's mainly because of the egos that men have. I have seen it multiple times. My pastor has tried unify all the apostolic churches in Tampa but others refused because it would make them look different to others. Also, in order to unification there will be the need to have submission. Its the hardest thing for another man to submit themselves to another man. Everyone either wants to be independent or democratic.

I wish that we could be unified. We would be so much more effective as a church.

[aaronliford07]

I have noticed that most church boards are little more than rubber stamps for the pastor.

We need to make sure the Church boards have some real power.

So you believe without a church board a man of God is just manipulating other people? Why? Have you had bad experiences or something?

[Esphes45]

It's mainly because of the egos that men have. I have seen it multiple times. My pastor has tried unify all the apostolic churches in Tampa but others refused because it would make them look different to others. Also, in order to unification there will be the need to have submission. Its the hardest thing for another man to submit themselves to another man. Everyone either wants to be independent or democratic.

I wish that we could be unified. We would be so much more effective as a church.

Ok. I am suppose to submit to my pastor but it is totally fine if pastors can't submit to one another? Is that of God?

Pastors can have egos but us regular church folks can't? Is that of God?

These are suppose to be the people we look up to! (which is another topic for discussion) They are not of God.

See one of the reasons I left my church because I knew my church was not trying to hear unification unless they were at the top of the pyramid. That my friend is not Godly at all.

God bless your Pastor for trying.

[Esphes45]

Yes.

Within the Body of Christ, we do need to be able to correct those among us who are in error and, if necessary, shun them when they do not correct themselves once they are clearly shown the error of their ways.

On the contrary, we should not be attempting to judge the world.

So if my version of modesty does not match yours then I guess you should shun me or at least correct me?

Think about your answer before you reply.

[Aquila]

We must begin to allow the Spirit to guide individuals and individual churches without viewing them as the enemy if their convictions differ. We are all one through the Holy Spirit even as the Holy Spirit leads and directs us individually in our individual walk with the Lord.

[Jermyn Davidson]

So if my version of modesty does not match yours then I guess you should shun me or at least correct me?

Think about your answer before you reply.

There are some things that are very clear in scripture and some things that are very clear in life.

If you were my brother or sister in Christ in error, by scripture I am ordered to at least attempt to turn you from your way of error.

Hopefully, everything can be worked out in love and humility. However, if it can't, my family and/or I can follow peace with you... from a distance.

My answer does not just apply to modesty.

[good samaritan]

So if my version of modesty does not match yours then I guess you should shun me or at least correct me?

Think about your answer before you reply.

This is a problem that we feel like there are different versions of the truth. Most of the time a preacher preaches something he gives scripture for his position taken. People many times decide that it just isn't that important. Modesty for instance we all agree the Bible commands it, but some just feel it isn't that important so they don't have to place much emphasis on it. The question do you notice what others wear because I do. If I see an attractive woman wearing something short or tight it gets my attention negatively. Of course I don't excuse myself to indulge, but try to remove my eyes and my thoughts somewhere else. I am a brother in the Lord and it causes me to struggle and I don't believe many here will disagree.

Lets open this open to males on this thread. When you see an attractive woman wearing tight or revealing clothes are you drawn to focus on the revealed parts?

There isn't really alternate versions just some don't see the importance. I would never shun you but I would pray for you. I don't see the point in hounding someone, but at some point a pastor must teach specifics on modesty to the church. The key is for him to be led of God in how and when he presents it.

[Esphes45]

There are some things that are very clear in scripture and some things that are very clear in life.

If you were my brother or sister in Christ in error, by scripture I am ordered to at least attempt to turn you from your way of error.

Hopefully, everything can be worked out in love and humility. However, if it can't, my family and/or I can follow peace with you... from a distance.

My answer does not just apply to modesty.

From your answer I believe you got my point. I agree there are some thing very clear in scripture but I don't know about very clear in life. We are prisoners of our own experiences. What might be clear to a person in the US might not be clear to someone in Indonesia. The bible teaches us according to your faith let it be so unto you.

If you came to me about something and it was not clear in the scripture, I would thank you and say, pray for me.

[Jermyn Davidson]

From your answer I believe you got my point. I agree there are some thing very clear in scripture but I don't know about very clear in life. We are prisoners of our own experiences. What might be clear to a person in the US might not be clear to someone in Indonesia. The bible teaches us according to your faith let it be so unto you.

If you came to me about something and it was not clear in the scripture, I would thank you and say, pray for me.

Oh yeah, in life there are things germane to this discussion that are very clear.

Booty shorts are not modest.
Short skirts are not modest.
Spandex is not modest.

Now if I had a daughter and her jeans were too tight for the leadership in my church, then I would help my daughter to wear female jeans that were not so tight.

I am willing to submit to the leadership of the Holy Spirit and/or to my ordained leadership (humans put into a place of leadership BY GOD for me to follow).

[Esphes45]

Oh yeah, in life there are things germane to this discussion that are very clear.

Booty shorts are not modest.
Short skirts are not modest.
Spandex is not modest.

Now if I had a daughter and her jeans were too tight for the leadership in my church, then I would help my daughter to wear female jeans that were not so tight.

I am willing to submit to the leadership of the Holy Spirit and/or to my ordained leadership (humans put into a place of leadership BY GOD for me to follow).

I agree. But remember, that is YOUR standard. That works well in some places in the world. I believe standards if spoken should be able to be applied globally.

[Rudy]

There are people from Burma here where I live and the men at times can be seen wearing wrapped skirts down to their ankles. Do we need to preach it off of them?

LOL.

[Timmy]

"Apostolics with Different Standards"

http://joshbrahm.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/you.jpg

[Timmy]

You guys should contact http://www.iso.org/iso/home.html. They'll come up with a standard you can all live with. It's their job.