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Originalist
10-11-2014, 08:06 PM
Pentecostalism‘s Dark Side

by Roger R. Olson

Roger Olson teaches at George W. Truett Theological Seminary at Baylor University in Waco. Texas.

I was raised in a tiny Pentecostal denomination, the Open Bible Standard Churches, founded in part by disillusioned followers of 1930s revivalist Aimee Semple McPherson. My parents were Open Bible pastors, many of my uncles and aunts were missionaries, and one uncle served as the denomination’s president.

During my late teens and early 20s I was the quintessential Pentecostal preacher-boy. I first spoke in tongues at age 14, raised my hands in exuberant worship at revivals and camp meetings, witnessed to my friends at school and tried to convince Christian friends that they needed the "sign gift" of speaking in tongues to be fully Spirit-filled.

But in my high school years I began to be bothered by some Pentecostal teachings and practices. Eventually my doubts and questions led to a difficult departure from the spiritual movement of my youth; I became a Baptist immediately after graduating from a Baptist seminary at age 26. I recall breathing a great sigh of relief when I finally exited the Full Gospel movement, as we liked to call Pentecostalism. And yet, my heart was heavy because it meant leaving my spiritual home. And I knew my loved ones were all praying for me to recover my spiritual fervor.

Over the years I’ve met many other men and women who grew up in the thick of North American Pentecostalism and left it under similar circumstances and for similar reasons. Although the movement has matured since I turned in my Pentecostal credentials, it has a ways to go before it becomes a fully healthy and health-giving part of the Christian community.

I say this without rancor or bitterness, and I do not intend any harm to Pentecostal churches or individuals. The movement is still relatively young as religious movements go; I have confidence it will continue to mature. Some of my dearest friends are Pentecostals; I admire them for their passion and self-denial in the face of subtle persecution. In many places being Pentecostal is still wrongly considered tantamount to being a "hillbilly Holy Roller." People who think that way should take a look at the parking lots of many suburban Assemblies of God churches.

In this centennial year of American Pentecostalism’s founding, however, I feel compelled to register some concerns about its enduring immaturity as a movement. Some non-Pentecostal religious scholars, such as Harvey Cox (Fire from Heaven) and Philip Jenkins (The Next Christendom), have succumbed to "Pentecostal chic" -- a kind of romantic view of Pentecostalism as a much-needed spiritual movement of the poor and oppressed that fills the Western world’s "ecstasy deficit." Missing in some of these accounts is an awareness of the movement’s dark side.

Endemic to Pentecostalism is a profoundly anti-intellectual ethos. It is manifested in a deep suspicion of scholars and educators and especially biblical scholars and theologians. Yes, there are some Pentecostal scholars who are respected outside the movement: Russell Spittler served as a dean at Fuller Theological Seminary for years; Gordon Fee taught New Testament at Regent College in Vancouver and produced highly regarded volumes in biblical studies; Amos Yong holds a Ph.D. from Boston University and teaches in the doctoral program at Regent University Graduate School of Divinity. Yet too many Pentecostal leaders hold even their own scholars at arms length and view them with suspicion. Merely being a member of the Society for Pentecostal Studies often brings a Pentecostal scholar’s commitment to the movement into question.

This is without doubt the main reason I drifted away from the movement and eventually broke from it. I was not satisfied with the pat answers I was given by my mentors and teachers to questions I had about Pentecostal doctrines and practices.

For example: Billy Graham was and is a great hero to most Pentecostals, but he says he has never spoken in tongues. Is he not Spirit-filled? My questions on this issue were deftly turned aside, and subtle aspersions were cast on my spirituality merely for asking such questions. In the end, I was told that Graham is fully Spirit-filled even if he has never spoken in tongues. He’s the one exception. But were I to take up a career teaching theology in a Pentecostal college (I was told), I couldn’t teach that there might be exceptions to that distinctive doctrine. The cognitive dissonance wrought by this and other answers boggled my mind.

Not all Pentecostals are anti-intellectual or revel in incoherence. But a deep antipathy to critical rationality applied to theology is a hallmark of the movement. Too often spiritual abuse in the form of shame is directed at those, especially young people, who dare to question the teachings of highly placed Pentecostal ministers and evangelists.

I was one of the first Open Bible members to attend seminary and, like most Pentecostals who did that, I left the movement. I felt pushed out for wasting my time on intellectual pursuits rather than becoming a missionary or evangelist. Today evangelical seminaries are full of Pentecostal youths. Many of them still find doors closed when they return to their home denominations for ordination or for leadership positions in churches. Pentecostal scholars too often have to work outside Pentecostal institutions and live in the shadows and on the margins of the movement.

Shaking off this anti-intellectual attitude won’t be easy for the movement; it is part of Pentecostalism’s DNA. A good beginning would be to draw those Pentecostal scholars who work on the margins into the movement’s centers of power and leadership. Honest and open dialogue between Pentecostal leaders and the movement’s own intellectuals -- with promises there will be no negative consequences -- could help shake off some of the mutual suspicion and fear that haunts their relationships. And Pentecostal leaders need to pledge never again to subject eager, faithful and intellectually inclined young people to shame merely for asking tough questions about Pentecostal distinctives.

Another part of Pentecostalism’s dark side is rampant sexual and financial scandals. From early Pentecostal leader Charles Parham to Aimee Semple McPherson to Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart, the movement has been wracked by charges of misconduct, many of which have been substantiated by investigators.

In recent days a new scandal has been brewing over the conduct of Atlanta-based megachurch pastor Earl Paulk. Allegedly the Pentecostal bishop-pastor of the Cathedral of the Holy Spirit engaged in sex with several parishioners over a period of years. One accuser claims that he told her sex with him was necessary to revitalize his ministry and that he also lured her to engage in sex with a visiting pastor. Another woman brought a lawsuit claiming Paulk had sex with her when she was a teenager. Although Paulk has denied such charges and so far no verdicts have been delivered, the number and weight of the accusations add to the impression that not only Paulk but Pentecostalism has a problem with scandals.

Other Christian movements have suffered similar scandals, but Pentecostalism seems particularly rife with them. Insiders know some of the reasons. Deeply embedded within the Pentecostal movement’s ethos is a cult of personality; charismatic leaders are put on pedestals above accountability and are often virtually worshiped by many of their followers.

Too few courses in basic ethics are required in Pentecostal colleges (perhaps because many Pentecostals, especially older ones, assume that being Spirit-filled guarantees right behavior), and too many pastors handle the churches’ money and travel alone without having to account for their whereabouts or activities. It’s the movement’s own dirty little secret: sexual promiscuity and financial misconduct are rampant within its ranks, and little is done about this unless a scandal becomes public.

Several Pentecostal denominations have instituted policies to handle cases of pastoral moral turpitude and financial misconduct, but they have found those policies hard to enforce. At least one Pentecostal denomination has a policy that forbids investigation of charges that are more than five years old. One can only wonder why the leaders decided on that limit.

There is no body that regulates independent churches and ministers, but Pentecostal leaders could work harder to expose their colleagues who transgress and to warn their flocks (and others) against them. Far too much nervousness about powerful television and radio preachers infects well-intentioned and ethically sensitive Pentecostal leaders. It’s time for the movement to own up to its sometimes sleazy history and go the extra mile in cleaning house in the cases of ministers and evangelists who are less than honest and chaste. It should not be left to publications like Christianity Today and Charisma to reveal scandals involving Pentecostal ministers, evangelists and denominational executives.


Article continued at http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=3338

pilgram
10-11-2014, 08:16 PM
It still amazes me how many people are totally clueless to the fact that each and every one of us is in a spiritual warfare every day of our lives being attacked in our thought lives by evil entities who have been deceiving humans since the beginning and know how to totally deceive people like the author of that article.

Originalist
10-11-2014, 08:34 PM
It still amazes me how many people are totally clueless to the fact that each and every one of us is in a spiritual warfare every day of our lives being attacked by entities who have been here on earth since the beginning and know how to deceive people totally as this article shows in glaring fashion.


Please elaborate. Are you agreeing with the author or saying he is deceived?

obriencp
10-11-2014, 09:07 PM
I agree fully with the first part of this article addressing the "anti-intellectual ethos."

In my experience, pastors are worried about kids going off to college and I don't remember anybody promoting bible college, unless it was a small local Oneness Pentecostal college that no one outside of our niche has ever heard of. Questions on doctrine are viewed as doubt and unbelief and then you're asked who you've been talking to. In the 'black' OP churches, you're expected to hack in the pulpit and have a great tag line that you can repeat to your neighbor. 'white' OP churches are similar although the 'hacking' thing seems to be uniquely urban. Reading books and going to seminars are not promoted either. It seems anything/anyone outside of OPs are off-limits because they'll convince you to doubt the "truth."

Originalist
10-11-2014, 09:35 PM
I agree fully with the first part of this article addressing the "anti-intellectual ethos."

In my experience, pastors are worried about kids going off to college and I don't remember anybody promoting bible college, unless it was a small local Oneness Pentecostal college that no one outside of our niche has ever heard of. Questions on doctrine are viewed as doubt and unbelief and then you're asked who you've been talking to. In the 'black' OP churches, you're expected to hack in the pulpit and have a great tag line that you can repeat to your neighbor. 'white' OP churches are similar although the 'hacking' thing seems to be uniquely urban. Reading books and going to seminars are not promoted either. It seems anything/anyone outside of OPs are off-limits because they'll convince you to doubt the "truth."


We certainly see the attitude you speak displayed by some on AFF.

houston
10-11-2014, 09:56 PM
I agree fully with the first part of this article addressing the "anti-intellectual ethos." In my experience, pastors are worried about kids going off to college and I don't remember anybody promoting bible college, unless it was a small local Oneness Pentecostal college that no one outside of our niche has ever heard of. Questions on doctrine are viewed as doubt and unbelief and then you're asked who you've been talking to. In the 'black' OP churches, you're expected to hack in the pulpit and have a great tag line that you can repeat to your neighbor. 'white' OP churches are similar although the 'hacking' thing seems to be uniquely urban. Reading books and going to seminars are not promoted either. It seems anything/anyone outside of OPs are off-limits because they'll convince you to doubt the "truth." We were told that there's nothing we'd learn at bible college that we can't learn at church.

Education? Those that wanted to attend community school would commute 40 minutes.

State University? An hour 14 minutes commute if traffic is light.

UC? NEVER! MUAHAHAHAHA

It was never the will of God for anyone to move away for anything... Well, except for when the assistant pastor took a church.

Originalist
10-11-2014, 10:06 PM
We were told that there's nothing we'd learn at bible college that we can't learn at church.

Education? Those that wanted to attend community school would commute 40 minutes.

State University? An hour 14 minutes commute if traffic is light.

UC? NEVER! MUAHAHAHAHA

It was never the will of God for anyone to move away for anything... Well, except for when the assistant pastor took a church.

This does seem to be more prevalent in Apostolic churches.

Michael The Disciple
10-12-2014, 12:24 AM
Well yes there is sin among Pentecostals. Far to much. I would guess not nearly as much as among Evangelicals. I could almost guarantee that.

Most Evangelicals teach their disciples that once your saved your always going to be saved. So right out of the gate they have given the ok to commit sin! You dont have to worry about losing favor with God much less salvation.

They teach that its normal to have sin in your life DAILY and that there is no need to fear God! One reason for the collapse of holiness among Pentecostals can be found right in the authors post.

Today evangelical seminaries are full of Pentecostal youths.

Exactly! And what are they paying these scholarly Evangelicals to learn?

That sins ok! That faith is presumption and the gifts ceased in 70ad!

The acceptance of Evangelical teaching is probably the worse thing to happen among Pentecostals.

Michael The Disciple
10-12-2014, 12:36 AM
I agree fully with the first part of this article addressing the "anti-intellectual ethos."

In my experience, pastors are worried about kids going off to college and I don't remember anybody promoting bible college, unless it was a small local Oneness Pentecostal college that no one outside of our niche has ever heard of. Questions on doctrine are viewed as doubt and unbelief and then you're asked who you've been talking to. In the 'black' OP churches, you're expected to hack in the pulpit and have a great tag line that you can repeat to your neighbor. 'white' OP churches are similar although the 'hacking' thing seems to be uniquely urban. Reading books and going to seminars are not promoted either. It seems anything/anyone outside of OPs are off-limits because they'll convince you to doubt the "truth."

The Freewill Baptist Church I attended in 1975 had a Pastor that was quite a hacker. I have visited a Baptist Church where the Pastor could "hack" with the best of them.

Reading books is not promoted among Pentecostals?

WHY SHOULD IT BE? Which would you rather read? A book by Charles Stanley? Or a book by Apostle Peter? A book by John Mcarthur? Or a book by Apostle Paul?

I hope we can see how ludicrous this is. Men write books of several hundred pages talking about topics that the Apostles covered in no more than a few pages!

houston
10-12-2014, 06:06 AM
Ridiculous. Evangelicals teach that if you continue in sin then you're probably not a Christian.

Who teaches that you can continue to sin because you are saved?

Michael The Disciple
10-12-2014, 08:15 AM
Ridiculous. Evangelicals teach that if you continue in sin then you're probably not a Christian.

Who teaches that you can continue to sin because you are saved?

To my knowledge 99 percent of them do.

And most Pentecostals have accepted their doctrine.

Have you not heard the trite saying "we all sin everyday"?

Michael The Disciple
10-12-2014, 08:25 AM
Over the years I’ve met many other men and women who grew up in the thick of North American Pentecostalism and left it under similar circumstances and for similar reasons. Although the movement has matured since I turned in my Pentecostal credentials, it has a ways to go before it becomes a fully healthy and health-giving part of the Christian community.

Pentecostalism has a ways to go before becoming part of the Christian community?

It is assumed that Evangelical cults are the true body of Christ! THEY are the example of Christianity!

In what way are Evangelicals a better example of Christians than Pentecostals?

And again my point is NOT that Pentecostals ARE the perfect example for Christianity. My point is that the author acts as if Evangelicals ARE!

He holds THEM up as true Christianity while Pentecostals are standing out in right field somewhere.

Originalist
10-12-2014, 08:32 AM
Pentecostalism has a ways to go before becoming part of the Christian community?

It is assumed that Evangelical cults are the true body of Christ! THEY are the example of Christianity!

In what way are Evangelicals a better example of Christians than Pentecostals?

And again my point is NOT that Pentecostals ARE the perfect example for Christianity. My point is that the author acts as if Evangelicals ARE!

He holds THEM up as true Christianity while Pentecostals are standing out in right field somewhere.


You have some valid points. But do you see some of his points as valid also?
I think allot of this applies more to one stepper Pentecostals that Apostolics.

Michael The Disciple
10-12-2014, 08:46 AM
Yes Bro I understand that Pentecostals have a ways to go to measure up to the true New Testament Church. My problem with the article is he left the Pentcostals and now holds up Evangelicals as something we should be more like.

FlamingZword
10-12-2014, 10:56 AM
This article is a hit piece on our Apostolic Beliefs.

Scott Pitta
10-12-2014, 11:37 AM
Very interesting thread.

Some UPC ministers are encouraged to attend Evangel University by the GS. I was told that by Kenneth Haney after he retired from being a GS.

Our professors at CLC encouraged us to earn higher degrees. We read books from a variety of christian backgrounds. There was no anti intellecualism when I was a student at CLC.

Michael The Disciple
10-12-2014, 11:50 AM
This article is a hit piece on our Apostolic Beliefs.

The article itself was a hit piece on ALL PENTECOSTALS mostly Trinitarians.

Another part of Pentecostalism’s dark side is rampant sexual and financial scandals. From early Pentecostal leader Charles Parham to Aimee Semple McPherson to Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart, the movement has been wracked by charges of misconduct, many of which have been substantiated by investigators.

In recent days a new scandal has been brewing over the conduct of Atlanta-based megachurch pastor Earl Paulk. Allegedly the Pentecostal bishop-pastor of the Cathedral of the Holy Spirit engaged in sex with several parishioners over a period of years. One accuser claims that he told her sex with him was necessary to revitalize his ministry and that he also lured her to engage in sex with a visiting pastor. Another woman brought a lawsuit claiming Paulk had sex with her when she was a teenager. Although Paulk has denied such charges and so far no verdicts have been delivered, the number and weight of the accusations add to the impression that not only Paulk but Pentecostalism has a problem with scandals.

All those mentioned are Trins. He never mentions Apostolics tho he may be familiar with them.

He goes back pretty far to find these. The most recent he mentions (scandals) go back at least 20 years.

FlamingZword
10-12-2014, 12:06 PM
Very interesting thread.

Some UPC ministers are encouraged to attend Evangel University by the GS. I was told that by Kenneth Haney after he retired from being a GS.

Our professors at CLC encouraged us to earn higher degrees. We read books from a variety of christian backgrounds. There was no anti intellecualism when I was a student at CLC.

The claims of anti intellectualism are bogus.

I would not encourage anyone to go to those colleges where liberal theology reigns supreme, where they teach that the bible is not really true.

that teach that the bible can be interpreted in many different ways.

many of those evangelical university are actually rabidly anti-biblical.

Michael The Disciple
10-12-2014, 12:14 PM
The best any Evangelical University can produce is people who have the entire foundation laid by Jesus Christ distorted. In other words they produce heretics as to the gospel of Christ.

And they make you PAY for the deception!

houston
10-12-2014, 12:29 PM
Oh please! What are y'all doing to educate your people?

*crickets*


If the anti intellectual claims were bogus there would have been accredited OP universities on the scene decades ago.

Roxanne Murphy
10-12-2014, 01:15 PM
I can affirm that the anti-intellectual, anti-higher education mindset has been the norm in holiness pentecostalism. The only education past high school that was generally tolerated was for a young man to attend the denominational Bible College to prepare him for the ministry, and later a district level correspondence Bible school was created in my home state. The ideal model promoted was to have all education be handled by the church (public schools were a big threat), and then those young folks off right out of high school to start families to keep the church strong in all the traditions. A desire for a secular secondary education was and still is discouraged by many pastors that I know because there is too big a risk that critical thinking skills learned might be applied to everything and that would cause huge problems for the poorly educated but strongly indoctrinated pastor trying to 'keep everybody saved and following the old paths'. A desire for a secular education was sometimes portrayed as a struggle with worldly desires.

Scott Pitta
10-12-2014, 01:49 PM
Critical thinking skills compliment any local church.

"Why ?" is God's favorite question.

If we are forced to leave our mind at home when we go to church, we make the church a temple to ignorance.

Esaias
10-12-2014, 02:12 PM
Why is it that so many Pentecostals who go for "higher accredited education" wind up becoming embued with humanistic, liberal values and a distinctly secular worldview?

It wasn't higher education that got me turned around from a life of sin and evil.

By the way, seems evryone has forgotten the fact that the international communist/socialist movement made it a priority to infiltrate and subvert all centers of higher learning, secular and religious, back in the 19th century. They haven't stopped.

Then again warning about the intentional subversion of society by hell-bent antichrist humanists is like SOOOO passe these days...

Steve Epley
10-12-2014, 02:24 PM
Two things:
1. Yes Pentecost all branches have had immorality in the ministry but no more than other denominations anyone ever heard of the Catholic Church?
2. It is true at one time Pentecostals may have been wary of higher education but no more. Pentecostal kids are going to college and becoming anything anyone else is achieving.

obriencp
10-12-2014, 02:36 PM
It was never the will of God for anyone to move away for anything... Well, except for when the assistant pastor took a church.

I remember that too! If you moved because of a job, you were putting your job in front of Jesus. If you went away to college, you were putting your education and plans ahead of what Jesus had for you. You had to stay planted where the Lord saved you, use your talents where the Lord saved you. This was always the teaching I heard growing up. If you dare look for another church, it's because there was sin and/or rebellion in your heart for certainly the Lord saved you in this church to be forever in service to this church for Him.

Esaias
10-12-2014, 02:40 PM
I remember that too! If you moved because of a job, you were putting your job in front of Jesus. If you went away to college, you were putting your education and plans ahead of what Jesus had for you. You had to stay planted where the Lord saved you, use your talents where the Lord saved you. This was always the teaching I heard growing up. If you dare look for another church, it's because there was sin and/or rebellion in your heart for certainly the Lord saved you in this church to be forever in service to this church for Him.

Funny considering the early Pentecostals rotated from meeting to meeting quite a lot... it was only later on that men took control and started building their little kingdoms.

obriencp
10-12-2014, 03:27 PM
I agree.

Also, i find it amazing how the Lord will open up doors when we step out of our normal routine. Maybe the Lord wants to move you somewhere for a specific purpose. We always limit God because of our paradigms and/or fear.

Michael The Disciple
10-12-2014, 03:43 PM
So what doctrines can Pentecostal youth learn by going to an Evangelical Bible school that they could not learn in their home Church?

Pressing-On
10-12-2014, 03:44 PM
Two things:
1. Yes Pentecost all branches have had immorality in the ministry but no more than other denominations anyone ever heard of the Catholic Church?
2. It is true at one time Pentecostals may have been wary of higher education but no more. Pentecostal kids are going to college and becoming anything anyone else is achieving.

:thumbsup :thumbsup

Originalist
10-12-2014, 03:57 PM
This article is a hit piece on our Apostolic Beliefs.


The article concerned Trinitarian and evangelical Pentecostals. But perhaps we are guilty of some of the same things. For instance, many do not like to take a scholarly approach to examining tradition teaching like...let's say...for example....tithing.

FlamingZword
10-12-2014, 06:49 PM
Oh please! What are y'all doing to educate your people?

*crickets*


If the anti intellectual claims were bogus there would have been accredited OP universities on the scene decades ago.

It takes a great deal of money to build a university.

FlamingZword
10-12-2014, 06:53 PM
I can affirm that the anti-intellectual, anti-higher education mindset has been the norm in holiness pentecostalism. The only education past high school that was generally tolerated was for a young man to attend the denominational Bible College to prepare him for the ministry, and later a district level correspondence Bible school was created in my home state. The ideal model promoted was to have all education be handled by the church (public schools were a big threat), and then those young folks off right out of high school to start families to keep the church strong in all the traditions. A desire for a secular secondary education was and still is discouraged by many pastors that I know because there is too big a risk that critical thinking skills learned might be applied to everything and that would cause huge problems for the poorly educated but strongly indoctrinated pastor trying to 'keep everybody saved and following the old paths'. A desire for a secular education was sometimes portrayed as a struggle with worldly desires.

Having gone to higher education, I can attest to the Anti-Christian climate in many colleges.
It is a sport for some liberal college professors to bad mouth Christianity and everything it stands for.
Why in the world would I encourage anyone to go to a college that would seek to teach it students that there is no God?

FlamingZword
10-12-2014, 06:54 PM
Critical thinking skills compliment any local church.

"Why ?" is God's favorite question.

If we are forced to leave our mind at home when we go to church, we make the church a temple to ignorance.

Ever heard of the term self-study.
many of the greatest minds, studied books in their homes and never went to college.

Roxanne Murphy
10-12-2014, 08:37 PM
Having gone to higher education, I can attest to the Anti-Christian climate in many colleges.
It is a sport for some liberal college professors to bad mouth Christianity and everything it stands for.
Why in the world would I encourage anyone to go to a college that would seek to teach it students that there is no God?

If those young people have been taught to have their own relationships with Jesus, AND if their faith is built upon God's Word (and not men's traditions with cherry-picked scriptures taken out of context as 'proof texts'), they will be fine. In fact, they will be able to live their faith and wisely defend it when called upon to do so.

Self study works for somethings, but if you find yourself in need of a surgeon, I am POSITIVE you will not be willing to have somebody who learned through self study perform a surgery on you.

And about self study, there are still textbooks involved, and with the exception of the very limited study materials designed to teach the denomination dogma, as in Theology, most textbooks are written by secular educators.

Roxanne Murphy
10-12-2014, 08:43 PM
Critical thinking skills compliment any local church.

"Why ?" is God's favorite question.

If we are forced to leave our mind at home when we go to church, we make the church a temple to ignorance.

I know of a pastor who preached an entire message to his church around the premise, "To truly follow Christ is to crucify the question 'why?' ". Sadly, that once thriving church is a mere shadow of what it was 15 years ago because of many missteps and a controlling approach from the pulpit that had/has zero tolerance for any questions about anything.

Originalist
10-12-2014, 09:04 PM
I know of a pastor who preached an entire message to his church around the premise, "To truly follow Christ is to crucify the question 'why?' ". Sadly, that once thriving church is a mere shadow of what it was 15 years ago because of many missteps and a controlling approach from the pulpit that had/has zero tolerance for any questions about anything.

They are cultists pure and simple.

Abiding Now
10-12-2014, 09:40 PM
First, the guy is a trinitarian (and according to his own testimony, a backslide Pentecostal that his own folks are praying for him to return to his roots) and he's criticizing trinitarian penetcostals. Big deal.

Scott Pitta
10-13-2014, 06:37 AM
Our daughters attend public universities. One is going to be a psychologist, the other a medical doctor.

Do Pentecostal colleges have med degree or psych degree programs ?? Not many.

Self study is no replacement for a college education. But even those who do, probably use books not penned by authors of their specific denomination.

Case in point: books on Iron age archaeology, Greek or Hebrew grammar, educational psychology. It would be easy to add on a dozen more topics, including financial topics.

Aquila
10-13-2014, 07:08 AM
I believe it is written,

Matthew 22:37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

You are to love God with every facet of your being... including intellect.

Aquila
10-13-2014, 07:15 AM
To my knowledge 99 percent of them do.

And most Pentecostals have accepted their doctrine.

Have you not heard the trite saying "we all sin everyday"?

Michael, I've found that the disconnect is how one defines "sin".

To those who believe we "sin" every day... sin is defined rather broadly. For example, breaking the speed limit on the way to work is a "sin" to them. Becoming upset without cause is a "sin". Speaking in a manner not Christ-like when addressing wife or children is a "sin". Merely glancing at a beautiful woman is a "sin". Some would say that "anything" not done in faith is "sin". Some will say that "anything" that isn't "Christ-like" is "sin".

During my time with those who believe we can live without sinning, I've noticed that they have a very narrow definition of sin. For example, many will strictly adhere to the Ten Commandments saying that if it doesn't break the Ten Commandments, it isn't sin. Therefore, they will not argue that breaking the speed limit is a sin. Nor do they believe that becoming upset without cause is a sin, they call it a "mistake". Some would argue that the "first look" at a beautiful woman isn't a sin (a Pastor once told me, "The first look is free."). Many have a very intricate code of living that defines sin far more narrowly than those who believe we sin every day.

So... while each side throws rancor at one another... I can't help but chuckle to myself because neither side is realizing that the difference in opinion is rooted in how each side defines "sin". LOL

Aquila
10-13-2014, 07:16 AM
Two things:
1. Yes Pentecost all branches have had immorality in the ministry but no more than other denominations anyone ever heard of the Catholic Church?
2. It is true at one time Pentecostals may have been wary of higher education but no more. Pentecostal kids are going to college and becoming anything anyone else is achieving.

:thumbsup

Aquila
10-13-2014, 07:18 AM
Having gone to higher education, I can attest to the Anti-Christian climate in many colleges.
It is a sport for some liberal college professors to bad mouth Christianity and everything it stands for.
Why in the world would I encourage anyone to go to a college that would seek to teach it students that there is no God?

I know. If Pentecostal students don't have the tenacity to understand that college is designed to challenge everything they ever believed... they will get all confused. Many professors that "challenge" Christianity are... Christians. They want to see if the students know why they believe what they believe. I remember one professor actually said, "I can't bring up religion and teach it to the class... but you can." ;)

Mind games about in college. You have atheist professors, professors that are Christian but challenge traditional understandings, professors that are Christian and wanting to have students stimulate discussion on faith. It can be very confusing to a student that doesn't realize the mind games being played.

I'd like to go in pretending to be a Muslim and see how they treat me. hehehe

Michael The Disciple
10-13-2014, 08:17 AM
Michael, I've found that the disconnect is how one defines "sin".

To those who believe we "sin" every day... sin is defined rather broadly. For example, breaking the speed limit on the way to work is a "sin" to them. Becoming upset without cause is a "sin". Speaking in a manner not Christ-like when addressing wife or children is a "sin". Merely glancing at a beautiful woman is a "sin". Some would say that "anything" not done in faith is "sin". Some will say that "anything" that isn't "Christ-like" is "sin".

During my time with those who believe we can live without sinning, I've noticed that they have a very narrow definition of sin. For example, many will strictly adhere to the Ten Commandments saying that if it doesn't break the Ten Commandments, it isn't sin. Therefore, they will not argue that breaking the speed limit is a sin. Nor do they believe that becoming upset without cause is a sin, they call it a "mistake". Some would argue that the "first look" at a beautiful woman isn't a sin (a Pastor once told me, "The first look is free."). Many have a very intricate code of living that defines sin far more narrowly than those who believe we sin every day.

So... while each side throws rancor at one another... I can't help but chuckle to myself because neither side is realizing that the difference in opinion is rooted in how each side defines "sin". LOL

Well you can be assured of this. God know what HE considers sin. A word to the wise is sufficient.

Michael The Disciple
10-13-2014, 08:21 AM
I know. If Pentecostal students don't have the tenacity to understand that college is designed to challenge everything they ever believed... they will get all confused. Many professors that "challenge" Christianity are... Christians. They want to see if the students know why they believe what they believe. I remember one professor actually said, "I can't bring up religion and teach it to the class... but you can." ;)

Mind games about in college. You have atheist professors, professors that are Christian but challenge traditional understandings, professors that are Christian and wanting to have students stimulate discussion on faith. It can be very confusing to a student that doesn't realize the mind games being played.

I'd like to go in pretending to be a Muslim and see how they treat me. hehehe

Whether you are talking Secular or Christian College it sounds horrible and definitely no place for young Christians.

Steve Epley
10-13-2014, 08:30 AM
We are blessed with colleges in our area where they can go and stay home which is healthier spiritually and financially. Many of our young folks go to college in fact I encourage them to. Even the girls I have told them they have no idea what will face them in the future and they might have to work and if so better to get an education to have a good education to have a good job than minimum wage job.

obriencp
10-13-2014, 08:58 AM
Whether you are talking Secular or Christian College it sounds horrible and definitely no place for young Christians.

While this is true, our kids need to be educated and not sheltered from the real world. They're going to face opposition and differing views where ever they go. Why not prepare them to the best of our ability and trust them and God that the truth will stand no matter what?

Michael The Disciple
10-13-2014, 09:28 AM
While this is true, our kids need to be educated and not sheltered from the real world. They're going to face opposition and differing views where ever they go. Why not prepare them to the best of our ability and trust them and God that the truth will stand no matter what?

Its far more important to YAH that they study to show themselves approved to him. And that they SEEK FIRST his kingdom. If they do this they will be throughly furnished unto all good works and he will supply their needs.

Colleges are burying young people in debt they will not be able to repay, and robbing them of precious time they need with Yeshua.

And BTW the article we are discussing I believe was referring to young Pentecostals going to BIBLE SCHOOLS. Tho that is also a bad idea.

Pressing-On
10-13-2014, 09:56 AM
We are blessed with colleges in our area where they can go and stay home which is healthier spiritually and financially. Many of our young folks go to college in fact I encourage them to. Even the girls I have told them they have no idea what will face them in the future and they might have to work and if so better to get an education to have a good education to have a good job than minimum wage job.

:thumbsup:thumbsup

Scott Pitta
10-13-2014, 01:58 PM
Good word, Steve Epley !!

The lost potential wages for not having graduated from college exceede the price for tuition. More than that, college can provide a career instead of a low wage job.

The increasing price for college is not good for our middle class.

Truthseeker
10-13-2014, 02:24 PM
Anyone against college is not in the real world. Very few live on family farms or have a family trade. Most have to get a trade somehow.

ILG
10-13-2014, 02:30 PM
We are blessed with colleges in our area where they can go and stay home which is healthier spiritually and financially. Many of our young folks go to college in fact I encourage them to. Even the girls I have told them they have no idea what will face them in the future and they might have to work and if so better to get an education to have a good education to have a good job than minimum wage job.

:thumbsup

When I got into Pentecost, it seems there was an anti-education bias, but that seems to have faded over the years.

Pressing-On
10-13-2014, 02:34 PM
:thumbsup

When I got into Pentecost, it seems there was an anti-education bias, but that seems to have faded over the years.

This is a red marker day - you and Bro. Epley are in agreement!! :swoon

:heeheehee

good samaritan
10-13-2014, 04:32 PM
I like a comment made by Bro. Tenney, "get a good education and get over it." For years I have known of pentecostals who frowned upon seminary because they believed that the best teaching was self teaching and God given revelation. I believe that we are moving away from this logic. I see good and bad for both sides. Education doesn't make you a better christian (look at the early apostles), but it does help open doors for you here in this world.

College isn't for some, but it is the best for others. I don't think there is many Pentecostal churches today who are discouraging their young people from college. Matter of fact they are probably encouraging it. We need to pray for the author. I don't understand how you can leave a Holy Ghost believing church to a denomination who doesn't believe the gifts are operating in the church today.

Sounds to me like he should ask for his money back. School wasn't the thing for him.

Chateau d'If
10-13-2014, 05:39 PM
I enjoyed the article. Spot on.

ILG
10-13-2014, 07:36 PM
This is a red marker day - you and Bro. Epley are in agreement!! :swoon

:heeheehee

:happydance:highfive

Esaias
10-14-2014, 02:19 AM
Anyone against college is not in the real world. Very few live on family farms or have a family trade. Most have to get a trade somehow.

College is a scam:

http://mrconservative.com/2013/05/17468-29-shocking-facts-that-show-a-college-education-is-just-a-scam/


http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/35-shocking-facts-that-prove-that-college-education-has-become-a-giant-money-making-scam

http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/pages/reviews4.html

http://m.thenewamerican.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenewamerican.com%2Fculture %2Feducation%2Fitem%2F16053-higher-education-brainwashing-101&utm_referrer=https://www.google.com/#2916

Truthseeker
10-14-2014, 07:58 AM
College is a scam:

http://mrconservative.com/2013/05/17468-29-shocking-facts-that-show-a-college-education-is-just-a-scam/


http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/35-shocking-facts-that-prove-that-college-education-has-become-a-giant-money-making-scam

http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/pages/reviews4.html

http://m.thenewamerican.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenewamerican.com%2Fculture %2Feducation%2Fitem%2F16053-higher-education-brainwashing-101&utm_referrer=https://www.google.com/#2916


It can be if you do degree that isn't worth anything. My brother has made six figures because of a college degree. Try trying him its a scam.
Both me and my wife do pretty good with nursing degrees. Try telling all my nursing coworkers it's a scam. They would laugh at you.
Try telling telling friends of ours who make almost double six figures their college degree is a scam.

A lot of trades are from colleges: electrician, engineer, ac tech, machinest, welding etc.....


Its not a cure all but if used right it can propel people to a bright future.


Keep in mind a lot of these folks working in labor jobs with degree are those who scammed the system for grants and money while getting a degree in something that is not worth nothing.

good samaritan
10-14-2014, 10:59 AM
The sad thing now is there is an overwhelming number leaving college and the number of jobs is getting fewer and fewer. Though, there probably is more out there today for those who have college than those who do not. It is sad how this country is becoming. My grandparents where able to provide for their families on one income with only a 3rd or 4th grade education. Today people's high school diploma isn't enough and usually it takes two incomes to meet today's standard of living.

Most of the industrial middle class jobs that once we thrived on are leaving this country. I met a 55-60 yr. old man Sunday that works part time at Burger King and can't even afford a house to live in. He has been sleeping under a overpass and going to a relative's small apartment to wash. He said he is on a waiting list to get into some government assisted housing that is currently full. I sometimes wonder if this country is receiving judgments from God. All the liberties we are granting for people to be practicing homosexuals, the infidelity, the violence, the melting pot of false religions, and the greed seems to have gone out of control.

I wish we were a christian nation again.

Aquila
10-14-2014, 11:04 AM
I don't believe we can blame sinners for the disparity we see among our society. It's largely the powers that be who have set the rules for business and the economy.

In a "biblical society" we'd be neither Capitalist nor Socialist, but rather Distributist. For an explanation of Distributism try this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributism

Distributism

Distributism (also known as distributionism[1] or distributivism[2]) is an economic ideology that developed in Europe in the late 19th and early 20th century based upon the principles of Catholic social teaching, especially the teachings of Pope Leo XIII in his encyclical Rerum Novarum and Pope Pius XI in Quadragesimo Anno.[3]

According to distributists, property ownership is a fundamental right[4] and the means of production should be spread as widely as possible rather than being centralized under the control of the state (state socialism), a few individuals (plutocracy), or corporations (corporatocracy). Distributism therefore advocates a society marked by widespread property ownership.[5] Co-operative economist Race Mathews, argues such a system is key to bringing about a just social order.[6]

Distributism has often been described in opposition to both socialism and capitalism,[7][8] which distributists see as equally flawed and exploitative.[9] Thomas Storck argues that "both socialism and capitalism are products of the European Enlightenment and are thus modernizing and anti-traditional forces. Further, some distributists argue that socialism is the logical conclusion of capitalism as capitalism's concentrated powers eventually capture the state, resulting in a form of socialism.[10][11] In contrast, distributism seeks to subordinate economic activity to human life as a whole, to our spiritual life, our intellectual life, our family life".[12]

Some have seen it more as an aspiration, which has been successfully realised in the short term by commitment to the principles of subsidiarity and solidarity (these being built into financially independent local cooperatives and small family businesses), though proponents also cite such periods as the Middle Ages as examples of the historical long-term viability of distributism.[13] Particularly influential in the development of distributist theory were Catholic authors G. K. Chesterton and Hilaire Belloc,[9] the Chesterbelloc, two of distributism's earliest and strongest proponents.[14][15]

More recently Pope Francis has brought distributism back into discussion, denouncing unfettered capitalism as tyranny in his 84-page apostolic exhortation Evangelii Gaudium:


Just as the commandment 'Thou shalt not kill' sets a clear limit in order to safeguard the value of human life, today we also have to say 'thou shalt not' to an economy of exclusion and inequality. Such an economy kills... A new tyranny is thus born, invisible and often virtual, which unilaterally and relentlessly imposes its own laws and rules. To all this we can add widespread corruption and self-serving tax evasion, which has taken on worldwide dimensions. The thirst for power and possessions knows no limits.

Aquila
10-14-2014, 11:05 AM
I also found this definition of "Justice" in the Holman Bible Dictionary to be of value:


Holman Bible Dictionary

Justice

The order God seeks to reestablish in His creation where all people receive the benefits of life with Him. As love is for the New Testament, so justice is the central ethical idea of the Old Testament. The frequency of justice is sometimes missed by the reader due to a failure to realize that the wide range of the Hebrew word mishpat , particularly in passages that deal with the material and social necessities of life.

Nature of justice Justice has two major aspects. First, it is the standard by which penalties are assigned for breaking the obligations of the society. Second, justice is the standard by which the advantages of social life are handed out, including material goods, rights of participation, opportunities, and liberties. It is the standard for both punishment and benefits and thus can be spoken of as a plumb line. “I shall use justice as a plumb-line, and righteousness as a plummet” (Isaiah 28:17 , REB).

Often people think of justice in the Bible only in the first sense as God's wrath on evil. This aspect of justice indeed is present, such as the judgment mentioned in John 3:19 . Often more vivid words like “wrath” are used to describe punitive justice (Romans 1:18 ).

Justice in the Bible very frequently also deals with benefits. Cultures differ widely in determining the basis by which the benefits are to be justly distributed. For some it is by birth and nobility. For others the basis is might or ability or merit. Or it might simply be whatever is the law or whatever has been established by contracts. The Bible takes another possibility. Benefits are distributed according to need. Justice then is very close to love and grace. God “executes justice for the orphan and the widow, and loves the strangers, providing them food and clothing” (Deuteronomy 10:18 , NRSV; compare Hosea 10:12; Isaiah 30:18 ).

Various needy groups are the recipients of justice. These groups include widows, orphans, resident aliens (also called “sojourners” or “strangers”), wage earners, the poor, and prisoners, slaves, and the sick (Job 29:12-17; Psalm 146:7-9; Malachi 3:5 ). Each of these groups has specific needs which keep its members from being able to participate in aspects of the life of their community. Even life itself might be threatened. Justice involves meeting those needs. The forces which deprive people of what is basic for community life are condemned as oppression (Micah 2:2; Ecclesiastes 4:1 ). To oppress is to use power for one's own advantage in depriving others of their basic rights in the community (see Mark 12:40 ). To do justice is to correct that abuse and to meet those needs (Isaiah 1:17 ). Injustice is depriving others of their basic needs or failing to correct matters when those rights are not met (Jeremiah 5:28; Job 29:12-17 ). Injustice is either a sin of commission or of omission.

The content of justice, the benefits which are to be distributed as basic rights in the community, can be identified by observing what is at stake in the passages in which “justice,” “righteousness,” and “judgment” occur. The needs which are met include land (Ezekiel 45:6-9; compare Micah 2:2; Micah 4:4 ) and the means to produce from the land, such as draft animals and millstones (Deuteronomy 22:1-4; Deuteronomy 24:6 ). These productive concerns are basic to securing other essential needs and thus avoiding dependency; thus the millstone is called the “life” of the person (Deuteronomy 24:6 ). Other needs are those essential for mere physical existence and well being: food (Deuteronomy 10:18; Psalm 146:7 ), clothing (Deuteronomy 24:13 ), and shelter (Psalm 68:6; Job 8:6 ). Job 22:5-9 ,Job 22:5-9,22:23; Job 24:1-12 decries the injustice of depriving people of each one of these needs, which are material and economic. The equal protection of each person in civil and judicial procedures is represented in the demand for due process ( Deuteronomy 16:18-20 ). Freedom from bondage is comparable to not being “in hunger and thirst, in nakedness and lack of everything” (Deuteronomy 28:48 NRSV).

Justice presupposes God's intention for people to be in community. When people had become poor and weak with respect to the rest of the community, they were to be strengthened so that they could continue to be effective members of the community—living with them and beside them (Leviticus 25:35-36 ). Thus biblical justice restores people to community. By justice those who lacked the power and resources to participate in significant aspects of the community were to be strengthened so that they could. This concern in Leviticus 25:1 is illustrated by the provision of the year of Jubilee, in which at the end of the fifty year period land is restored to those who had lost it through sale or foreclosure of debts ( Leviticus 25:28 ). Thus they regained economic power and were brought back into the economic community. Similarly, interest on loans was prohibited (Leviticus 25:36 ) as a process which pulled people down, endangering their position in the community.

These legal provisions express a further characteristic of justice. Justice delivers; it does not merely relieve the immediate needs of those in dire straits (Psalm 76:9; Isaiah 45:8; Isaiah 58:11; Isaiah 62:1-2 ). Helping the needy means setting them back on their feet, giving a home, leading to prosperity, restoration, ending the oppression (Psalm 68:5-10; Psalm 10:15-16; compare 107; Psalm 113:7-9 ). Such thorough justice can be socially disruptive. In the Jubilee year as some receive back lands, others lose recently-acquired additional land. The advantage to some is a disadvantage to others. In some cases the two aspects of justice come together. In the act of restoration, those who were victims of justice receive benefits while their exploiters are punished (1 Samuel 2:7-10; compare Luke 1:51-53; Luke 6:20-26 ).

The source of justice As the sovereign Creator of the universe, God is just (Psalm 99:1-4; Genesis 18:25; Deuteronomy 32:4; Jeremiah 9:24 ), particularly as the defender of all the oppressed of the earth (Psalm 76:9; Psalm 103:6; Jeremiah 49:11 ). Justice thus is universal (Psalm 9:7-9 ) and applies to each covenant or dispensation. Jesus affirmed for His day the centrality of the Old Testament demand for justice (Matthew 23:23 ). Justice is the work of the New Testament people of God (James 1:27 ).

God's justice is not a distant external standard. It is the source of all human justice (Proverbs 29:26; 2Chronicles 19:6,2 Chronicles 19:9 ). Justice is grace received and grace shared (2 Corinthians 9:8-10 ).

The most prominent human agent of justice is the ruler. The king receives God's justice and is a channel for it (Psalm 72:1; compare Romans 13:1-2 ,Romans 13:1-2,13:4 ). There is not a distinction between a personal, voluntary justice and a legal, public justice. The same caring for the needy groups of the society is demanded of the ruler (Psalm 72:4; Ezekiel 34:4; Jeremiah 22:15-16 ). Such justice was also required of pagan rulers (Daniel 4:27; Proverbs 31:8-9 ).

Justice is also a central demand on all people who bear the name of God. Its claim is so basic that without it other central demands and provisions of God are not acceptable to God. Justice is required to be present with the sacrificial system (Amos 5:21-24; Micah 6:6-8; Isaiah 1:11-17; Matthew 5:23-24 ), fasting (Isaiah 58:1-10 ), tithing (Matthew 23:23 ), obedience to the other commandments (Matthew 19:16-21 ), or the presence of the Temple of God (Jeremiah 7:1-7 ).

Justice in salvation Apart from describing God's condemnation of sin, Paul used the language and meaning of justice to speak of personal salvation. “The righteousness of God” represents God in grace bringing into the community of God through faith in Christ those who had been outside of the people of God (particularly in Romans but compare also Ephesians 2:12-13 ). See Law; Government; Poverty; Righteousness; Welfare.

Stephen Charles Mott


The social ethic of biblical "justice" fuels the ideals of Distributism.

KeptByTheWord
10-14-2014, 07:23 PM
I don't think every child needs to go to college or university. Trade schools really should be more of an option, instead of every child that goes to public school being pushed to enter university.

The anti-education ideas in Pentecost certainly existed in the past, but I do see a trend now where people realize that without an education, it is very hard to provide decently for your family, and the mindset, even in Pentecostal circles has changed for the most part.

KeptByTheWord
10-14-2014, 07:23 PM
This is a red marker day - you and Bro. Epley are in agreement!! :swoon

:heeheehee

Will wonders never cease! :D

Abiding Now
10-15-2014, 05:53 PM
I learned early on about the need for higher education when I flunked Sand Piling 101 in kindergarten. Life can be tuff.

LongBeachCA
02-21-2018, 08:53 AM
Pentecostalism‘s Dark Side

by Roger R. Olson

Roger Olson teaches at George W. Truett Theological Seminary at Baylor University in Waco. Texas.

I was raised in a tiny Pentecostal denomination, the Open Bible Standard Churches, founded in part by disillusioned followers of 1930s revivalist Aimee Semple McPherson. My parents were Open Bible pastors, many of my uncles and aunts were missionaries, and one uncle served as the denomination’s president.

During my late teens and early 20s I was the quintessential Pentecostal preacher-boy. I first spoke in tongues at age 14, raised my hands in exuberant worship at revivals and camp meetings, witnessed to my friends at school and tried to convince Christian friends that they needed the "sign gift" of speaking in tongues to be fully Spirit-filled.

But in my high school years I began to be bothered by some Pentecostal teachings and practices. Eventually my doubts and questions led to a difficult departure from the spiritual movement of my youth; I became a Baptist immediately after graduating from a Baptist seminary at age 26. I recall breathing a great sigh of relief when I finally exited the Full Gospel movement, as we liked to call Pentecostalism. And yet, my heart was heavy because it meant leaving my spiritual home. And I knew my loved ones were all praying for me to recover my spiritual fervor.

Over the years I’ve met many other men and women who grew up in the thick of North American Pentecostalism and left it under similar circumstances and for similar reasons. Although the movement has matured since I turned in my Pentecostal credentials, it has a ways to go before it becomes a fully healthy and health-giving part of the Christian community.

I say this without rancor or bitterness, and I do not intend any harm to Pentecostal churches or individuals. The movement is still relatively young as religious movements go; I have confidence it will continue to mature. Some of my dearest friends are Pentecostals; I admire them for their passion and self-denial in the face of subtle persecution. In many places being Pentecostal is still wrongly considered tantamount to being a "hillbilly Holy Roller." People who think that way should take a look at the parking lots of many suburban Assemblies of God churches.

In this centennial year of American Pentecostalism’s founding, however, I feel compelled to register some concerns about its enduring immaturity as a movement. Some non-Pentecostal religious scholars, such as Harvey Cox (Fire from Heaven) and Philip Jenkins (The Next Christendom), have succumbed to "Pentecostal chic" -- a kind of romantic view of Pentecostalism as a much-needed spiritual movement of the poor and oppressed that fills the Western world’s "ecstasy deficit." Missing in some of these accounts is an awareness of the movement’s dark side.

Endemic to Pentecostalism is a profoundly anti-intellectual ethos. It is manifested in a deep suspicion of scholars and educators and especially biblical scholars and theologians. Yes, there are some Pentecostal scholars who are respected outside the movement: Russell Spittler served as a dean at Fuller Theological Seminary for years; Gordon Fee taught New Testament at Regent College in Vancouver and produced highly regarded volumes in biblical studies; Amos Yong holds a Ph.D. from Boston University and teaches in the doctoral program at Regent University Graduate School of Divinity. Yet too many Pentecostal leaders hold even their own scholars at arms length and view them with suspicion. Merely being a member of the Society for Pentecostal Studies often brings a Pentecostal scholar’s commitment to the movement into question.

This is without doubt the main reason I drifted away from the movement and eventually broke from it. I was not satisfied with the pat answers I was given by my mentors and teachers to questions I had about Pentecostal doctrines and practices.

For example: Billy Graham was and is a great hero to most Pentecostals, but he says he has never spoken in tongues. Is he not Spirit-filled? My questions on this issue were deftly turned aside, and subtle aspersions were cast on my spirituality merely for asking such questions. In the end, I was told that Graham is fully Spirit-filled even if he has never spoken in tongues. He’s the one exception. But were I to take up a career teaching theology in a Pentecostal college (I was told), I couldn’t teach that there might be exceptions to that distinctive doctrine. The cognitive dissonance wrought by this and other answers boggled my mind.

Not all Pentecostals are anti-intellectual or revel in incoherence. But a deep antipathy to critical rationality applied to theology is a hallmark of the movement. Too often spiritual abuse in the form of shame is directed at those, especially young people, who dare to question the teachings of highly placed Pentecostal ministers and evangelists.

I was one of the first Open Bible members to attend seminary and, like most Pentecostals who did that, I left the movement. I felt pushed out for wasting my time on intellectual pursuits rather than becoming a missionary or evangelist. Today evangelical seminaries are full of Pentecostal youths. Many of them still find doors closed when they return to their home denominations for ordination or for leadership positions in churches. Pentecostal scholars too often have to work outside Pentecostal institutions and live in the shadows and on the margins of the movement.

Shaking off this anti-intellectual attitude won’t be easy for the movement; it is part of Pentecostalism’s DNA. A good beginning would be to draw those Pentecostal scholars who work on the margins into the movement’s centers of power and leadership. Honest and open dialogue between Pentecostal leaders and the movement’s own intellectuals -- with promises there will be no negative consequences -- could help shake off some of the mutual suspicion and fear that haunts their relationships. And Pentecostal leaders need to pledge never again to subject eager, faithful and intellectually inclined young people to shame merely for asking tough questions about Pentecostal distinctives.

Another part of Pentecostalism’s dark side is rampant sexual and financial scandals. From early Pentecostal leader Charles Parham to Aimee Semple McPherson to Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart, the movement has been wracked by charges of misconduct, many of which have been substantiated by investigators.

In recent days a new scandal has been brewing over the conduct of Atlanta-based megachurch pastor Earl Paulk. Allegedly the Pentecostal bishop-pastor of the Cathedral of the Holy Spirit engaged in sex with several parishioners over a period of years. One accuser claims that he told her sex with him was necessary to revitalize his ministry and that he also lured her to engage in sex with a visiting pastor. Another woman brought a lawsuit claiming Paulk had sex with her when she was a teenager. Although Paulk has denied such charges and so far no verdicts have been delivered, the number and weight of the accusations add to the impression that not only Paulk but Pentecostalism has a problem with scandals.

Other Christian movements have suffered similar scandals, but Pentecostalism seems particularly rife with them. Insiders know some of the reasons. Deeply embedded within the Pentecostal movement’s ethos is a cult of personality; charismatic leaders are put on pedestals above accountability and are often virtually worshiped by many of their followers.

Too few courses in basic ethics are required in Pentecostal colleges (perhaps because many Pentecostals, especially older ones, assume that being Spirit-filled guarantees right behavior), and too many pastors handle the churches’ money and travel alone without having to account for their whereabouts or activities. It’s the movement’s own dirty little secret: sexual promiscuity and financial misconduct are rampant within its ranks, and little is done about this unless a scandal becomes public.

Several Pentecostal denominations have instituted policies to handle cases of pastoral moral turpitude and financial misconduct, but they have found those policies hard to enforce. At least one Pentecostal denomination has a policy that forbids investigation of charges that are more than five years old. One can only wonder why the leaders decided on that limit.

There is no body that regulates independent churches and ministers, but Pentecostal leaders could work harder to expose their colleagues who transgress and to warn their flocks (and others) against them. Far too much nervousness about powerful television and radio preachers infects well-intentioned and ethically sensitive Pentecostal leaders. It’s time for the movement to own up to its sometimes sleazy history and go the extra mile in cleaning house in the cases of ministers and evangelists who are less than honest and chaste. It should not be left to publications like Christianity Today and Charisma to reveal scandals involving Pentecostal ministers, evangelists and denominational executives.


Article continued at http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=3338


HOW ABOUT PASTOR EDDIE LONG or BISHOP EDDIE LONG? LOOK WHAT HE DID AND LIED ABOUT IT and he said I GOT 5 stones and I have not thrown my first one yet. He was a SICKO

Scott Pitta
02-21-2018, 09:16 AM
Pentecostal churches can and do have fiscal accountability. But only if the church board is designed to carry the fiscal and accounting responsibility.

I was a church treasurer in a Pentecostal church. The pastor could not sign checks. He did not have access to the giving statements of members. He was paid a salary like all other church employees.

These controls, plus others, such as a public itemized financial report of all income and expenses, provide fiscal responsibility and protect ministers from financial misconduct.

William Francis Manley is probably the first anti-intellectual in Pentecostalism. 100 years into the Oneness Pentecostal movement, there are few accredited colleges for ministerial training. Considerable progress is being made. But cumulative progress has hampered the movement.

Evang.Benincasa
02-21-2018, 04:41 PM
HOW ABOUT PASTOR EDDIE LONG or BISHOP EDDIE LONG? LOOK WHAT HE DID AND LIED ABOUT IT and he said I GOT 5 stones and I have not thrown my first one yet. He was a SICKO

Bishop Eddie Long and Pastor Eddie Long?

Are they twins?

You have 5 stones? I suggest you drink lots of cranberry juice until they pass. :nod

LongBeachCA
02-22-2018, 03:16 PM
Pentecostalism has a ways to go before becoming part of the Christian community?

It is assumed that Evangelical cults are the true body of Christ! THEY are the example of Christianity!

In what way are Evangelicals a better example of Christians than Pentecostals?

And again my point is NOT that Pentecostals ARE the perfect example for Christianity. My point is that the author acts as if Evangelicals ARE!

He holds THEM up as true Christianity while Pentecostals are standing out in right field somewhere.

I have always said as many have that if the MANGUNS @ THE POA ANTHONY & MICKEY MANGUN would ever take over the UPCI as in PASTOR ANTHONY becoming the SUPERINTENDENT OR BISHOP of the UPCI they would turn this organization around and clean it up. I have a lot of respect for how the MANGUNS RUN THE POA and it shows by the amount of members they have and they keep. AND THEY EVEN have members that pay tithes and offerings and keep coming just to hear him preach that are really BAPTIST and of other faiths. I have seen many that come there that do not look by standards wise PENTECOSTAL but they KEEP coming because of his preaching. GOD deals with people on his time and their time. Not the PASTORS and the SAINTS TIME. He also has people in POLITICS that frequent his church services.

houston
02-22-2018, 03:24 PM
Yes. AM was a great influence on Bill Clinton.

Evang.Benincasa
02-23-2018, 04:09 AM
Yes. AM was a great influence on Bill Clinton.

That was funny :heeheehee