Women be quiet?

[mizpeh]

Is this passage talking about women being quiet in the church or at home?

1 Timothy 2:11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.

[Sean]

In church

[Abiding Now]

This is probably one of the biggest problems that the church has been "working on" for centuries, how to get a woman to be quiet at home or church. As soon as this problem is solved Jesus is coming back.












































J/K!!! :D

[Esaias]

Is this passage talking about women being quiet in the church or at home?

1 Timothy 2:11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.

I believe it primarily has to do with in the assembly however there is a wider general application as it speaks to general relationship between the man and the woman.

The NT is rather clear that teaching and leadership roles in the church are not to be assumed by women.

[Rudy]

Is this passage talking about women being quiet in the church or at home?

1 Timothy 2:11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.

Meetings were held for the most part back then in homes. Order was being addressed here.

Define what a prophetess does and you will know that a woman is allowed to speak in meetings.

It's the same liberty that a male prophet has. They speak for the most high.

Acts 21:8-9 (http://biblia.com/bible/kjv1900/Acts%2021.8-9)
On the next day we who were Paul's companions departed and came to Caesarea, and entered the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, and stayed with him. Now this man had four virgin daughters who prophesied.

King James Bible (http://biblehub.com/kjv/acts/2.htm)
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

[Michael The Disciple]

Three levels of this.

On one level women are not to hold leadership positions.

Another level women may pray and prophesy (partake in body ministry) during the gathering if they cover their heards.

Another level they are to be silent in contrast to asking questions or idle talk in the meeting.

[mizpeh]

Why do you think it is in the church and not the home? What in the context makes you think that?

[Abiding Now]

1Co 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

1Co 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

[Sean]

I dont know if women will be in heaven.....Rev. 8:1...When he opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.



LOL?

[Esaias]

Three levels of this.

On one level women are not to hold leadership positions.

Another level women may pray and prophesy (partake in body ministry) during the gathering if they cover their heards.

Another level they are to be silent in contrast to asking questions or idle talk in the meeting.

1Cor 14 says women are not permitted to speak in the assembly. This was in the context of "body ministry" was it not? Does it not seem then that Paul taught women to be silent during the meeting? Has it not been taught "women may prophesy but not in the meeting"?

I'm just trying to understand because the praying or prophesying part is not necessarily in an assembly context but the silence part is...

[KeptByTheWord]

There is a big difference between leadership, and ministering. Paul said we are all ministers, gifted with the Spirit in different areas. However, we do not see women listed holding any position of leadership in the churches, with the possible exception of Phoebe.

So, we understand by this that leadership positions such as bishop, deacon, elder were not held by women in the NT, but that women were fully operational in the church to operate gifts of the spirit, which included prophesying.

Ephesians 4:11-13
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:


You will notice in the above passage that the positions of government: deacon, elder, bishop are not mentioned. However, body ministry including apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers are all lumped together in the description of body ministry.

[mizpeh]

1Co 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

1Co 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

That is a different letter, a letter to a church. The verses being examined in this thread are to a minister of the gospel, not a church. Imo, Paul is speaking about married men and women.

Must the prayers that Paul is exhorting Timothy to teach to others in 1 Timothy 2, only be done IN the CHURCH (which is where ever the body of Christ meets)? or should those prayers be at home in the prayer closet also?

Are women only to adorn themselves in proper clothing in the church gathering or everywhere they go?

Where does it say women are to be submissive in the church gathering? And why is "woman" and "man" translated that way instead of "wife" and "husband"?

One other question, what does this portion of 1Timothy 1:18 refer to: "This command I entrust to you..."? I think it goes with the first verse of chapter 2 and following. The stuff in between this portion and 1 Timothy 2:1 is peripheral things related to Timothy and not the people of God.


1 Timothy 2:1-14 First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. 3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time. 7 For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

8 Therefore I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and dissension.

9 Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, 10 but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness. 11 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.

[Esaias]

Wife and woman in Greek are the same words if I'm not mistaken.

And as I said there is a more general application to life in general, not just the assembly.

[mizpeh]

Wife and woman in Greek are the same words if I'm not mistaken.

And as I said there is a more general application to life in general, not just the assembly.
But more specifically in the context of 1 Timothy what does it mean?

[Rudy]

Humm, I was thinking.

Deborah Judged a nation but a woman is not allowed to speak in church meetings! So much for liberty.

[Abiding Now]

In I Cor. 14:34-35, the Apostle was teaching the women about speaking out to their husbands in a church service (who from my understanding were seated closer to the front with the women segregated to the back). That's why the phrase "let them ask their husbands at home".

I Tim. 2:11 - 12 is old nother ball game.

[Esaias]

I think the reference in 1Tim is to women not asking questions in the assembly. The woman is to learn in silence. This to me implies the assembly. The other reference speaks of a woman asking her husband at home, which supports the idea the woman is not question a teacher during the assembly.

People often project their own modern church experiences onto the bible assuming a NT meeting looks the same as a modern bapto-pentecostal-evangelical church service with its lecture format and theater seating arrangement.

The early church met in homes and teaching involved q and a. Teaching was more of a dialogue than a lecture. This format was familiar to Jews via the synagogue and rabbinic methods of teaching, and familiar (somewhat) to Greeks via the way philosophers taught as well as the method of conducting a symposium. (The symposium was a dinner party which included a discussion and dialogue on some subject after supper. Of course many pagan symposia were characterized by debauchery and wild extravagance but the basic idea of an interactive teaching dialogue was common.)