The Standard By Which We Will Be Judged

[Michael The Disciple]

Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect. Matt. 5:48

One of satans wiles is to bewitch the children of light to think they need not be free from sin to enter Heavens gates. Altho overcoming sin is not all there is to the Christian life it certainly is very important.

Most Pentecostal groups now espouse Evangelical teachings, one will never in this life overcome sin. This is very deadly thinking.

Christ Jesus will not marry a bride with sin in her life.

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. Ephesians 5:25-27

[shazeep]

It's funny how I completely agree with your words, yet I know the end of this is erroneously the doctrine of OS; keeping the focus on Sin.

[Michael The Disciple]

It's funny how I completely agree with your words, yet I know the end of this is erroneously the doctrine of OS; keeping the focus on Sin.

What is OS? Glad you agree!

[Michael The Disciple]

The teaching we hear nowadays makes it sound like sin is stronger than God!

Here are wise words from the apostle John:

4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 1 John 4:4

The Creator of the Universe is in a Spirit filled Christian. That's sufficient to overcome the temptations of life.

[Truthseeker]

Are you without fault completely perfect?

[shazeep]

What is OS? Glad you agree!

Sorry-the doctrine of original sin. As opposed to the fact of it.

[Michael The Disciple]

Are you without fault completely perfect?

If I were not would that change the teaching of Christ? Would it excuse someone else if I were not? No.

If I have sin in my life when Jesus comes I will not enter Heavens gates but will be cast into Gehenna.

Only those who are entirely sanctified will be ready to meet Christ.

23And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it. 1 Thess 5:23-24

Christ obviously expects this. He believes this is possible. He sees it as the norm for his servants.

7But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat? 8And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink? 9Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not. 10So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do. Luke 17:7-10

When we do all we are commanded to do we are nothing special. We are not "super spiritual" as the false teachers try to imply.

No. We are merely doing that which is our duty to do. It is expected of all and not just a few.

[Truthseeker]

Is that a yes?

[shazeep]

:lol

[Michael The Disciple]

Are you without fault completely perfect?

This is expected of all. It is the very purpose of the Apostolic ministry.

27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 28Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: 29Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily. Col. 1:27-29

Paul clearly states his purpose. To present every man perfect in Christ.

Every minister who has not the same purpose is a false minister. Either one of two things is at work.

a. He is a tare sent by satan to confuse the saints and lower the standard.

b. He may be a well meaning believer in Christ who has been taught the traditions of men and accepts them. Yet he is a novice in the doctrine of Christ and jumped into the ministry for some purpose apart from the will of God.

[Truthseeker]

Can you answer with a yes or no? Are you faultless perfect without sin?

[Michael The Disciple]

Can you answer with a yes or no? Are you faultless perfect without sin?

I dont presently have sin in my life. I am a normal Christian. Do you have sin in yours?

[Truthseeker]

I dont presently have sin in my life. I am a normal Christian. Do you have sin in yours?

Sin as in imperfections, yes. I am glad you are perfect without sin, not being funny.

[shazeep]

I dont presently have sin in my life...hmm...that you know of. Surely you agree?

[Michael The Disciple]

Sin as in imperfections, yes. I am glad you are perfect without sin, not being funny.

Bro it is supposed to be the norm.

12Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Phil. 2:12-13

I am not trying to be funny either. If we know we have sin in our life we should be very afraid.

[Abiding Now]

The teaching we hear nowadays makes it sound like sin is stronger than God!

Here are wise words from the apostle John:

4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 1 John 4:4

The Creator of the Universe is in a Spirit filled Christian. That's sufficient to overcome the temptations of life.

You really should get out more, you have evidently been listening to something/someone that I don't listen to. I've never heard an Apostolic preacher preach making "it sound like sin is stronger than God". As a matter of fact just last week the preacher use John 1:4 in his preaching.

[shazeep]

Hmm. I would follow that with, "if we believe that we are sinless, we should be even more afraid!"

"If you, being evil..." Was, after all, directed at the Apostles.

[shazeep]

You really should get out more, you have evidently been listening to something/someone that I don't listen to. I've never heard an Apostolic preacher preach making "it sound like sin is stronger than God".ok, and he's the one who needs to get out more? :lol I hear it all the time.

[Michael The Disciple]

You really should get out more, you have evidently been listening to something/someone that I don't listen to. I've never heard an Apostolic preacher preach making "it sound like sin is stronger than God". As a matter of fact just last week the preacher use John 1:4 in his preaching.

Well if he preaches to live overcoming sin thats good.:highfive The people I talk with usually preach we can never really be free from it.

[Truthseeker]

I never heard anyone preach to continue in sin.

[Abiding Now]

I never heard anyone preach to continue in sin.

I have heard Baptist preachers preach, "you can not live without sinning every day".

[Truthseeker]

I have heard Baptist preachers preach, "you can not live with sinning every day".

They should not say that. If you believe you are a sinner you will sin by faith.

[shazeep]

Thereby keeping the focus on sin-right where satan wants it. No diff than most Apo/Pent sermons, wadr.

[Abiding Now]

Mostly what I hear is "you can not live an un-repented life, you can not sin and please God, we must die daily, sin is of the devil and if/when you fail, repent and get it under the Blood".

[Truthseeker]

We can't die daily. We are to believe we are dead to sin, its a fact accomplished in Christ.

[Abiding Now]

We can't die daily. We are to believe we are dead to sin, its a fact accomplished in Christ.

I agree about being dead to sin, but apostle Paul said.

1Co 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

[Truthseeker]

I agree about being dead to sin, but apostle Paul said.

1Co 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

You can't be dead and dying. Context shows is he was referring to facing death daily, much like a soldier would in combat.

[Truthseeker]

No such thing as dying to sin, it's accepting we are ,through Christ work, dead to sin.

[Truthseeker]

1 Corinthians 15:30-32 KJV

And why stand we in jeopardy every hour? I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.


Look how amp puts it:



1 Corinthians 15:29-32 AMP

Otherwise, what do people mean by being [themselves] baptized in behalf of the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them? [For that matter], why do I live [dangerously as I do, running such risks that I am] in peril every hour? [I assure you] by the pride which I have in you in [your fellowship and union with] Christ Jesus our Lord, that I die daily [I face death every day and die to self]. What do I gain if, merely from the human point of view, I fought with [wild] beasts at Ephesus? If the dead are not raised [at all], let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we will be dead. [Isa. 22:13.]

[Rudy]

Look up a video on youtube called "you are perfect" by Irvin Baxter.

[Michael The Disciple]

I have heard Baptist preachers preach, "you can not live without sinning every day".

Most Pentecostals by far agree. At least those I talk to. Especially people on the Forum.

[Abiding Now]

Most Pentecostals by far agree. At least those I talk to. Especially people on the Forum.

I don't and again, I've never heard that preached by an Apostolic preacher.

[Michael The Disciple]

We can't die daily. We are to believe we are dead to sin, its a fact accomplished in Christ.

Well yes it is a fact established in Christ. And yet it still has to be walked out by faith day by day.

23And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. 24For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it. Luke 9:23-24

It is on a daily basis because thats how life is lived. One day at a time.

[Abiding Now]

Well yes it is a fact established in Christ. And yet it still has to be walked out by faith day by day.

23And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. 24For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it. Luke 9:23-24

It is on a daily basis because thats how life is lived. One day at a time.

:thumbsup

[Truthseeker]

Well yes it is a fact established in Christ. And yet it still has to be walked out by faith day by day.

23And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. 24For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it. Luke 9:23-24

It is on a daily basis because thats how life is lived. One day at a time.


Yes day by day we walk by faith but we don't die daily. We are renewed daily in the faith and the word that we are dead.

[Michael The Disciple]

Yes day by day we walk by faith but we don't die daily. We are renewed daily in the faith and the word that we are dead.

Lets try it this way. To die daily could be like this. You were planning a nice peaceful hike in the hill country for Saturday. Saturday morning a brother in Christ calls and says his car wont start and he cant miss another day of work or he will be fired.

Well your desire was to do the hiking but you love the Brother so you die to your plan........and go pick the Bro up, take him to work and tell him you will pick him up 8 hours later.

You died to self THAT DAY.

Tomorrow it may be something else. Life is lived one day at a time. You cant die out to self all at once because all trials dont come at once. They come daily for most of us. Therefore we cant die to self ahead of our trials and temptations.

HOWEVER when they do come we BY FAITH draw from the established fact that in Christ we are DEAD TO SELF. Our faith is in the established fact but faith makes it actually come true in our life.

[Michael The Disciple]

I don't and again, I've never heard that preached by an Apostolic preacher.

Im only aware of perhaps 2-3 people on this forum that seem to have believed the Christian can consistently overcome sin.

[Michael The Disciple]

OK so now we all agree that our works must be perfect if we expect to enter Heavens gates??

Rev. 3:1-2


1And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. 2Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

So this is THE STANDARD by which Christians are judged.

Christ continues addressing the fact their works were not perfect and the consequences thereof.


3Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. 4Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 5He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. 6He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

So two things up front. Verse 3 they will miss his coming. Verse 5 he will blot their names out of the book of life.

Very serious stuff.

[Truthseeker]

Lets try it this way. To die daily could be like this. You were planning a nice peaceful hike in the hill country for Saturday. Saturday morning a brother in Christ calls and says his car wont start and he cant miss another day of work or he will be fired.

Well your desire was to do the hiking but you love the Brother so you die to your plan........and go pick the Bro up, take him to work and tell him you will pick him up 8 hours later.

You died to self THAT DAY.

Tomorrow it may be something else. Life is lived one day at a time. You cant die out to self all at once because all trials dont come at once. They come daily for most of us. Therefore we cant die to self ahead of our trials and temptations.

HOWEVER when they do come we BY FAITH draw from the established fact that in Christ we are DEAD TO SELF. Our faith is in the established fact but faith makes it actually come true in our life.


Agree to disagree I guess.

Colossians 3:3 KJV

For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

[Truthseeker]

OK so now we all agree that our works must be perfect if we expect to enter Heavens gates??

Rev. 3:1-2


1And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. 2Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

So this is THE STANDARD by which Christians are judged.

Christ continues addressing the fact their works were not perfect and the consequences thereof.


3Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. 4Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 5He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. 6He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

So two things up front. Verse 3 they will miss his coming. Verse 5 he will blot their names out of the book of life.

Very serious stuff.


Ho could a churches work not be perfect?

[Michael The Disciple]

Ho could a churches work not be perfect?

Remember "Church" is people.

4Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. Rev. 3:4

They had defiled garments. Sin in their lives.

The standard by which we will be judged is no sin in our lives.

[shazeep]

YupOK so now we all agree that our works must be perfect if we expect to enter Heavens gates??

Rev. 3:1-2


1And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. 2Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

So this is THE STANDARD by which Christians are judged.

Christ continues addressing the fact their works were not perfect and the consequences thereof.


3Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. 4Thou hast ah few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 5He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. 6He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

So two things up front. Verse 3 they will miss his coming. Verse 5 he will blot their names out of the book of life.

Very serious stuff.very nice, agree

[Originalist]

Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect. Matt. 5:48

One of satans wiles is to bewitch the children of light to think they need not be free from sin to enter Heavens gates. Altho overcoming sin is not all there is to the Christian life it certainly is very important.

Most Pentecostal groups now espouse Evangelical teachings, one will never in this life overcome sin. This is very deadly thinking.

Christ Jesus will not marry a bride with sin in her life.

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. Ephesians 5:25-27


I fully agree that we are credited as having Christ's perfection when we are born again. That is how we are presented perfect in Christ. All the righteous demands of the Law are met in us through Christ according to Romans 8:4. Any righteousness I have is a gift from God and not of myself. But such a righteousness WILL bear fruit and be worked out practically in our lives. If it does not show on the outside you probably ain't got it on the inside.

[BrotherEastman]

Remember "Church" is people.

4Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. Rev. 3:4

They had defiled garments. Sin in their lives.

The standard by which we will be judged is no sin in our lives.

agreed!!!!:thumbsup

[Truthseeker]

Hebrews 9:26 KJV

For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

How does him putting away or sin come into play? Side note: says he came at the end if the world.

[Abiding Now]

I fully agree that we are credited as having Christ's perfection when we are born again. That is how we are presented perfect in Christ. All the righteous demands of the Law are met in us through Christ according to Romans 8:4. Any righteousness I have is a gift from God and not of myself. But such a righteousness WILL bear fruit and be worked out practically in our lives. If it does not show on the outside you probably ain't got it on the inside.

:thumbsup

[Michael The Disciple]

I fully agree that we are credited as having Christ's perfection when we are born again. That is how we are presented perfect in Christ. All the righteous demands of the Law are met in us through Christ according to Romans 8:4. Any righteousness I have is a gift from God and not of myself. But such a righteousness WILL bear fruit and be worked out practically in our lives. If it does not show on the outside you probably ain't got it on the inside.

Agreed with this addition. When we are born again Christ gives us his righteousness. Its as if (spiritually) he gives us a new garment of purity. As we walk along if we would commit a sin a spot comes up on our garment.

If we repent it goes away washed by the blood of Christ. If one does not repent it stains the garment and remains unless and until the sin is repented of.

The norm should be our garment is unspotted from the world. If one defiles their garment as the Lord said in Rev. 3:3-6

3Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. 4Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 5He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. 6He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

According to verse 4 and 5 he is in danger of having his name blotted out of the book of life. If he repents and overcomes (makes his works perfect) he is restored to perfection his garment unspotted again.

[Truthseeker]

So you believe you get saved and unsaved over and over? Let's say you mistreat a cashier bad and while driving home you realize it then repent but it took 1 hour. Would you be lost in the hour before the spot was removed?

[Michael The Disciple]

So you believe you get saved and unsaved over and over? Let's say you mistreat a cashier bad and while driving home you realize it then repent but it took 1 hour. Would you be lost in the hour before the spot was removed?

TS,

Dont assume it is I who came up with the thought about our works being perfect. Or about our garments getting defiled. Or about blotting someone out because they are not overcoming.

It is Christ Jesus who set these things in order in his Kingdom. The idea he tries to get across is to be an OVERCOMER . Any time we have sin in our life we should be afraid.

[Michael The Disciple]

What did the apostles of Christ Jesus teach about getting spots on our garments? Remember our garment is speaking spiritually about our life.

Paul:

27That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. Ephesians 5:27

Peter:

14Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. 2 Peter 3:14

James:

27Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. James 1:27

Jude:

22And of some have compassion, making a difference: 23And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. Jude 1:22

It seems they all understood this. If are garments are defiled we are seriously at risk in our fellowship with the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

[Michael The Disciple]

Hebrews 9:26 KJV

For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

How does him putting away or sin come into play? Side note: says he came at the end if the world.

When a person repents and believes his sacrifice as the lamb of God comes into play. They enter Covenant with him. He is their high priest and mediator.

Apostle John shows how it works generally speaking.

1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 1 John 2:1

We confess he forgives.

AND YET something else from the book of Hebrews is ALSO in play.

26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Heb. 10:26-27

So while the sacrifice of Christ perfects forever them who are sanctified, for those who despise the grace of God and continue sinning it is no more of effect.

This is why the Lord and Savior gives such strict warnings to the believers in Sardis that had defiled their garments. He was giving them a chance to repent and make their works perfect or......he says he will blot them out of the book of life.

[Michael The Disciple]

I never heard anyone preach to continue in sin.

No you probably wont.

Here's the kicker tho. They dont tell you to keep sinning BUT they tell you you will enter Gods Heavenly Kingdom even tho you do.

I dont think many would say they have never heard THAT taught.

I have heard it taught by 95% of all believers including ministers.

[Originalist]

Agreed with this addition. When we are born again Christ gives us his righteousness. Its as if (spiritually) he gives us a new garment of purity. As we walk along if we would commit a sin a spot comes up on our garment.

If we repent it goes away washed by the blood of Christ. If one does not repent it stains the garment and remains unless and until the sin is repented of.

The norm should be our garment is unspotted from the world. If one defiles their garment as the Lord said in Rev. 3:3-6

3Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. 4Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 5He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. 6He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

According to verse 4 and 5 he is in danger of having his name blotted out of the book of life. If he repents and overcomes (makes his works perfect) he is restored to perfection his garment unspotted again.

The holiness of God within will always make a Christian feel uncomfortable in sin and beckon them to repent. That's why I question these who claim salvation but show no hesitation to sin.

[Truthseeker]

The holiness of God within will always make a Christian feel uncomfortable in sin and beckon them to repent. That's why I question these who claim salvation but show no hesitation to sin.

Yeah. If you can sin comfortably, there are major problems. A new convert asked wigglesworth if had to stop smoking and drinking now that he was saved, he answered with "smoke and drink as much as you want if you can"

[Truthseeker]

When a person repents and believes his sacrifice as the lamb of God comes into play. They enter Covenant with him. He is their high priest and mediator.

Apostle John shows how it works generally speaking.

1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 1 John 2:1

We confess he forgives.

AND YET something else from the book of Hebrews is ALSO in play.

26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Heb. 10:26-27

So while the sacrifice of Christ perfects forever them who are sanctified, for those who despise the grace of God and continue sinning it is no more of effect.

This is why the Lord and Savior gives such strict warnings to the believers in Sardis that had defiled their garments. He was giving them a chance to repent and make their works perfect or......he says he will blot them out of the book of life.


Hebrews 10 is about leaving Christ and drawing back to law losing salvation and suffering the coming destruction.

Why would writer say he put away sin? What did that mean?

[Michael The Disciple]

Hebrews 10 is about leaving Christ and drawing back to law losing salvation and suffering the coming destruction.

Why would writer say he put away sin? What did that mean?

Hebrews 10 is applicable for any Messianic believer. I already showed you how Yeshua put away sin. He forgives it. Its simple enough.

[Michael The Disciple]

So my point in this thread is to help anyone reading to see the truth about how they will be judged. It may cause fear to some. Thats good. If they wake up and forsake the false Evangelical teaching that Adonai only sees the blood of Yeshua and not their personal sins they have a chance.

Remember this is the standard for every Christian.

Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect. Matt:5:48

This may open a new perspective for some PTL!

[Michael The Disciple]

Hebrews 10 is about leaving Christ and drawing back to law losing salvation and suffering the coming destruction.

Why would writer say he put away sin? What did that mean?

So maybe the part about him putting away sin is ALSO just for the Jews who lived back then?

[Truthseeker]

Hebrews 10 is applicable for any Messianic believer. I already showed you how Yeshua put away sin. He forgives it. Its simple enough.

It says he put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Yes. Hebrews ten is applicable, if one leaves the faith they leave the righteousness of Christ to go back to being a sinner.


Colossians 1:20-23 KJV

And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;


Reconciled, blameless, holy "if you continue in the faith"

[Truthseeker]

So maybe the part about him putting away sin is ALSO just for the Jews who lived back then?

Read the whole chapter to see the point.

[Michael The Disciple]

It says he put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Yes. Hebrews ten is applicable, of one leaves the faith they leave the righteousness of Christ to go back to bring a sinner.


Colossians 1:20-23 KJV

And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;


Reconciled, blameless, holy "if you continue in the faith"

AMEN!

[Michael The Disciple]

How was Yeshua able to offer himself without spot unto God? The answer is not because he was walking around as God himself. What example would that be to us mortals? He did it like this:

14How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? Heb. 9:14

Through the eternal spirit! Being filled with the Holy Spirit!

Same thing is available for us!

12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. Romans 8:13

Yes the Spirit the Christian receives is the same one that was in Christ. The ALMIGHTY SPIRIT OF ADONAI ELOHIM gives abundant power to overcome sin that we too may offer ourselves without spot unto him!

So we have the power within to walk pleasing to Yeshua. But WE must also exercise faith. The children of light must by faith mortify the deeds of the body. This means we believe that we are dead to sin and alive to God when temptation knocks on our door.

Paul said if we do this we shall live. He obviously means "in eternity". If we allow the flesh to rule us we will die. Again this is speaking of "eternal death" not just the death of all men.

Yeshua is calling us all to be overcomers! How many will hear what the Spirit is saying to the Churches?

[Sean]

Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect. Matt. 5:48

One of satans wiles is to bewitch the children of light to think they need not be free from sin to enter Heavens gates. Altho overcoming sin is not all there is to the Christian life it certainly is very important.

Most Pentecostal groups now espouse Evangelical teachings, one will never in this life overcome sin. This is very deadly thinking.

Christ Jesus will not marry a bride with sin in her life.

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. Ephesians 5:25-27






Amen to all of the post above bro...

If I may add a little here. We are assigned to walk in the Spirit to keep out from under the Law which shall judge the unsaved. If we are walking in the Spirit, our former judge, the Law, cannot condemn us.....

Romans 8
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

[Truthseeker]

So you believe you get saved and unsaved over and over? Let's say you mistreat a cashier bad and while driving home you realize it then repent but it took 1 hour. Would you be lost in the hour before the spot was removed?

You really didn't answer this post.

[Truthseeker]

Amen to all of the post above bro...

If I may add a little here. We are assigned to walk in the Spirit to keep out from under the Law which shall judge the unsaved. If we are walking in the Spirit, our former judge, the Law, cannot condemn us.....

Romans 8
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


Right, in the flesh can mean under the law.

[Sean]

Right, in the flesh can mean under the law.



Amen, the 2 go hand in hand.

[Rudy]

Watch "you are perfect" by Irvin Baxter on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlY5tuJ4hpI

[shazeep]

I'd say that if it took you an hour to repent, you might still be lost :Lola
This seems to encourage an extremely literal view of 'lost' and 'saved' to me.

[Michael The Disciple]

Watch "you are perfect" by Irvin Baxter on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlY5tuJ4hpI

Any Christian who has no sin in their life is perfect toward God. Any believer who has sin in their life is not perfect before him.

[Truthseeker]

Hebrews 10:14 KJV

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.


???

[Michael The Disciple]

Hebrews 10:14 KJV

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.


???

When a person repents and believes his sacrifice as the lamb of God comes into play. They enter Covenant with him. He is their high priest and mediator.

Apostle John shows how it works generally speaking.

1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 1 John 2:1

We confess he forgives.

AND YET something else from the book of Hebrews is ALSO in play.

26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Heb. 10:26-27

So while the sacrifice of Christ perfects forever them who are sanctified, for those who despise the grace of God and continue sinning it is no more of effect.

29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Heb. 10:29-31

This is why the Lord and Savior gives such strict warnings to the believers in Sardis that had defiled their garments. He was giving them a chance to repent and make their works perfect or......he says he will blot them out of the book of life.

[Rudy]

Any Christian who has no sin in their life is perfect toward God. Any believer who has sin in their life is not perfect before him.

There is willful sin [Judas] and there is a moment of sin [Peter]. Paul mentioned his struggle in doing what's right.

Romans 7:18-20King James Version (KJV)

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

--------------------------------------------

To me it's about having a repentant heart. Practicing sin vs a moment of sin.

[mfblume]

There is willful sin [Judas] and there is a moment of sin [Peter]. Paul mentioned his struggle in doing what's right.

Romans 7:18-20King James Version (KJV)

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

--------------------------------------------

To me it's about having a repentant heart. Practicing sin vs a moment of sin.

Bro., Paul did not say what you think he did. That is a common misconception. Paul wrote in a style of putting himself in the place of someone who tried to serve God in oldness of the letter and not newness of the Spirit, not from his own perspective in reality. It's a writing style.

But Paul did not have that struggle when he wrote Romans. We know that because when he uttered a cry of desperation in verse 24, he answered his own cry in verse 25 and Romans 8:1.

Who will deliver him? He thanked God that God will. How? Through Jesus Christ which made us dead to the law according to Romans 7:4 through the body of Christ. And then he sums it up in the rest of verse 25 by saying we want to serve God and try to do it in our minds -- our minds are in perfect agreement with serving God. But the reason we fail is because we are trying to do it in oldness of the letter which he called using the flesh, which is what you actually read in vv 18-20. So, when we will to serve God with our minds, but the flesh instead is utilized we instead fail as the verse you pointed out describes.

So, Rom 8:1 says to stop walking after that flesh and serving God in that manner, and there is no condemnation! No desperation we read about in the verses you quoted. Paul would not have said that if he continually struggled. You just misread those words and did not notice that Paul was not describing his actual state, but speaking from the perspective of someone who did not know how to properly serve God in newness of spirit that he mentioned in 7:6..

[Aquila]

When we stand before God every thought, word, deed, and intent will be judged as to if it demonstrates a love for God and a love for others.

If we walk in the Spirit, bearing the fruit of love, we will be found to be "perfect" in Christ Jesus, His perfection being our own.

[houston]

Bro., Paul did not say what you think he did. That is a common misconception. Paul wrote in a style of putting himself in the place of someone who tried to serve God in oldness of the letter and not newness of the Spirit, not from his own perspective in reality. It's a writing style. But Paul did not have that struggle when he wrote Romans. We know that because when he uttered a cry of desperation in verse 24, he answered his own cry in verse 25 and Romans 8:1. Who will deliver him? He thanked God that God will. How? Through Jesus Christ which made us dead to the law according to Romans 7:4 through the body of Christ. And then he sums it up in the rest of verse 25 by saying we want to serve God and try to do it in our minds -- our minds are in perfect agreement with serving God. But the reason we fail is because we are trying to do it in oldness of the letter which he called using the flesh, which is what you actually read in vv 18-20. So, when we will to serve God with our minds, but the flesh instead is utilized we instead fail as the verse you pointed out describes. So, Rom 8:1 says to stop walking after that flesh and serving God in that manner, and there is no condemnation! No desperation we read about in the verses you quoted. Paul would not have said that if he continually struggled. You just misread those words and did not notice that Paul was not describing his actual state, but speaking from the perspective of someone who did not know how to properly serve God in newness of spirit that he mentioned in 7:6.. Yes, AMEN! I saw this truth over a year ago. But it illuminated in a very real way recently. Posts by you, MTD, and convo with a friend confirm. I have 3 witnesses. :D

[mfblume]

Yes, AMEN! I saw this truth over a year ago. But it illuminated in a very real way recently. Posts by you, MTD, and convo with a friend confirm. I have 3 witnesses. :D

Woohoo!

:D

[houston]

IMO, many Christians have an identity issue.

Should we continue in sin because we have grace?
GOD FORBID!

How can one dead to sin continue in sin?


We're told that someday we will have the victory. Keep praying. Keep pressing. It's just around the corner. Years pass, we're almost there.

No, no, no, no!!! We're dead to sin when we're saved. It's not something worked out over time.

[votivesoul]

I am living an overcoming life in which no present, active, or appearance of sin exists.

I believe in sinless perfection. I believe the law of sin will be present until glorification, but that law of sin need not reign in our mortal bodies. It can be crushed by repentance from dead works and faith toward God, building ourselves up in our most holy faith by praying in the Spirit, hating the garment stained by the flesh, etc.

A few weeks ago at a home fellowship, as I spoke to those present regarding sanctification. I assured them that as they progressed in their walk with God, that they CAN, through the Blood of the Atonement, get to a place where they begin to "sin less" until they reach a point of being "sinless".

Jaws dropped and revelation kicked in!

I was told by two people "No one has ever said that to me before".

God changed their minds and hearts toward how to live for Him that very moment.

It was beautiful.

[votivesoul]

I am living an overcoming life in which no present, active, or appearance of sin exists.

I believe in sinless perfection. I believe the law of sin will be present until glorification, but that law of sin need not reign in our mortal bodies. It can be crushed by repentance from dead works and faith toward God, building ourselves up in our most holy faith by praying in the Spirit, hating the garment stained by the flesh, etc.

A few weeks ago at a home fellowship, as I spoke to those present regarding sanctification. I assured them that as they progressed in their walk with God, that they CAN, through the Blood of the Atonement, get to a place where they begin to "sin less" until they reach a point of being "sinless".

Jaws dropped and revelation kicked in!

I was told by two people "No one has ever said that to me before".

God changed their minds and hearts toward how to live for Him that very moment.

It was beautiful.

It is faith in the power of the atoning blood of Jesus Christ and the mercy of God, not anything I personally merit or can do. My faith (trust, reliance, belief) in what the death and resurrection of Yeshua accomplished in me when God saved me that keeps me living a pure life of blameless holiness, to be obedient to the Father in all things.

I earn none of these things. They are credited to me by faith.

[votivesoul]

When lust hath conceived, it bringeth for sin, and sin when it is finished bringeth forth death.

The wages of sin is death.

Salvation should not be looked at like a yo-yo, where a believer every day goes from saved to lost with every action or inaction.

Salvation should be understood as the power of God to keep us in His hand by His grace, through faith, and that He will constantly lead us back to Him for forgiveness if we miss the mark.

But if a person ignores that grace, and allows sin to abide, at the end, when sin has done its work, it will bring forth the wages which are meet: death.

And if physical death occurs while sin abides, the judgment seat of Christ will be terrifying.

[Michael The Disciple]

When we stand before God every thought, word, deed, and intent will be judged as to if it demonstrates a love for God and a love for others.

If we walk in the Spirit, bearing the fruit of love, we will be found to be "perfect" in Christ Jesus, His perfection being our own.

This is true and very good.

Here is another good perspective.

14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. Rev.22:14

If we keep the commandments of Christ (out of a pure heart of course) we shall enter into the gates of that city.

[Aquila]

This is true and very good.

Here is another good perspective.

14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. Rev.22:14

If we keep the commandments of Christ (out of a pure heart of course) we shall enter into the gates of that city.

I believe His commandments are:

1. Love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength.
2. Love your neighbor as your self.

As Paul wrote, love fulfills the Law (Romans 13:8-10).

[Michael The Disciple]

I believe His commandments are:

1. Love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength.
2. Love your neighbor as your self.

As Paul wrote, love fulfills the Law (Romans 13:8-10).

There are commandments on practically every page of the New Testament writings. They can be SUMMED UP by comprehending love, nevertheless there are many things commanded by Christ. The way you prove you love the Lord your God with all your heart is by doing his word/will.

If one desires eternal life let them know it is only given to those who DO THE WILL OF GOD.

17And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. 1 John 2:17

[houston]

It all comes down to "love."


He said, "if you love me...."

My my.

[Aquila]

There are commandments on practically every page of the New Testament writings. They can be SUMMED UP by comprehending love, nevertheless there are many things commanded by Christ. The way you prove you love the Lord your God with all your heart is by doing his word/will.

If one desires eternal life let them know it is only given to those who DO THE WILL OF GOD.

17And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. 1 John 2:17

I see many teachings, admonishments, and a few commandments. However, their substance is love for God, spouse, brethren, and others. Most who draft out "commandments" all disagree on what they are, how many there are, and often the essence off the commandment. So, I have concluded from Paul (Romans 13:8-10; Galatians 5:14) that the Christian life is actually very simple and spiritual. We are to love God with all our being. And demonstrate that love by loving others as our selves.

We are perfected in love. The greater our love, the greater our perfection. For the more our love, the more we are like God. For God is love.

[KeptByTheWord]

Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect. Matt. 5:48

One of satans wiles is to bewitch the children of light to think they need not be free from sin to enter Heavens gates. Altho overcoming sin is not all there is to the Christian life it certainly is very important.

Most Pentecostal groups now espouse Evangelical teachings, one will never in this life overcome sin. This is very deadly thinking.

Christ Jesus will not marry a bride with sin in her life.

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. Ephesians 5:25-27

I think one of the passages of scriptures that just about as clearly as possible outlines the life of a Christian after the initial work of repentance/salvation is this one:

Col. 3:5-17
5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.

8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.

9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.

16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

We see Paul here admonishing to put off the sins of the flesh (fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil passions, covetousness/idolatry), and not stopping there, but continuing to address the putting way of sins of the spirit (anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication, and lying).

So we understand from this passage that sins of the flesh, and of the spirit are equally concerning to a disciple of Christ.

Paul then admonishes us to put on the bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness, meekness, long-suffering, forbearing, and forgiving. So here we see that if disciples have abstained from flesh/spirit sins, but are not manifesting charity (love) in their life, they have not reached perfection. (vs. 14).

This is not a cut and dry - once saved always saved - kind of teaching, but instead it is a lifestyle of constant soul searching, honesty, and striving to manifest the fruit of righteousness and holiness each and every moment of our lives.

[Michael The Disciple]

I think one of the passages of scriptures that just about as clearly as possible outlines the life of a Christian after the initial work of repentance/salvation is this one:

Col. 3:5-17
5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.

8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.

9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.

16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

We see Paul here admonishing to put off the sins of the flesh (fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil passions, covetousness/idolatry), and not stopping there, but continuing to address the putting way of sins of the spirit (anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication, and lying).

So we understand from this passage that sins of the flesh, and of the spirit are equally concerning to a disciple of Christ.

Paul then admonishes us to put on the bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness, meekness, long-suffering, forbearing, and forgiving. So here we see that if disciples have abstained from flesh/spirit sins, but are not manifesting charity (love) in their life, they have not reached perfection. (vs. 14).

This is not a cut and dry - once saved always saved - kind of teaching, but instead it is a lifestyle of constant soul searching, honesty, and striving to manifest the fruit of righteousness and holiness each and every moment of our lives.

Amen!:highfive