Charisma responds to the Paula White Fiasco ! ! !

[Thad]

There’s Trouble in Tampa Bay


BY LEE GRADY


Some people think I have a glamorous career because I get to interview Christian authors, musicians and celebrities. I’ve never looked at it that way. In fact, sometimes the things I learn on this job make me downright sick.
I felt a bit woozy last week after learning about yet another potential scandal in the volatile world of independent charismatic ministries. I am referring to recent allegations made against Randy and Paula White, pastors of the 23,500-member Without Walls International Church in Tampa, Fla. After the Tampa Tribune ran a full-length investigative piece on the Whites on May 20, my e-mail box quickly became clogged with messages from all over the nation.


“Maybe we need to ask some hard questions that apply not only to the Whites but also to every ministry in this country.”



Everyone was asking the same question: “What is Charisma going to do about this?” Some accused me of “covering up” these allegations—even though I didn’t know about them yet.
Here’s my official answer: We are studying the situation and will interview the Whites to get their side of the story. I hope we discover that the charges are baseless because the body of Christ has endured enough disgrace in the last year.

The article in the Tribune raises fair questions about the Whites’ spending habits, accounting practices and business dealings. It mentions their $1.9 million jet, their $2.1 million home in Tampa and Paula’s $3.5 million Trump Tower condo in New York. It even claims that the Whites took economic advantage of an elderly widow in their congregation.

In a later article, which ran in the newspaper on May 25, a former member of the White’s church said she was told she won a free house in a contest the church sponsored in 2002. She even went to a ribbon cutting and was given a tour of the house—a celebration that was shown on local television. But today, 25-year-old LaShonda Dupree says Without Walls officials explained to her that they only intended to give her the down payment for the home.

The Whites, to their credit, provided responses to many of the Tribune’s questions. Regarding Dupree’s story, Randy told the newspaper that the contest clearly stated that the winner would get a down payment only. “We tried to do a good thing and it backfired,” he said.

Regarding the elderly widow, 85-year-old “Mother Ruth” McGinnis, the Whites claim that the woman fully agreed to their financial terms. Regarding their personal wealth and lucrative church budget, the Whites maintain that their church supports more than 90 missions and outreach programs and gave more than $3.1 million to various charities last year.

Just yesterday I was able to contact the Whites and got a short statement from them about the Tribune story. Paula told me: “In regards to the articles that have recently been published, we have been advised not to make an official statement at this time. However, Mother Ruth continues to sit on the front row and LaShonda [Dupree] continues to come to church every Sunday. The fruit of our ministry of evangelism and restoration speaks for itself and we continue to do what we are called to do.”

The newspaper raised other issues that relate more to the Whites’ flamboyant lifestyle than their business ethics. When asked about both Randy’s and Paula’s plastic surgeries, Randy told reporters that they must “look the part” in order to make their frequent television appearances. It also mentioned Randy’s tattoos, gun collection and a 2005 appearance on the cover of Makes and Models, a monthly magazine devoted to exotic cars and motorcycles.

The newspaper also mentioned widely circulated rumors about marital problems between the Whites—rumors that have been fueled by the fact that Paula spends much of her time in New York while Randy is trying to start a new congregation in Southern California to reach movie stars. Randy and Paula told the newspaper that they have been true to their marriage vows, while acknowledging that they are under a huge amount of stress because Randy’s adult daughter, Kristen Hernando, was recently diagnosed with a brain tumor and requires his constant attention.

What do we as Christians do when our leaders are accused of wrongdoing? In the case of Randy and Paula White, we must demand some answers. The public is requiring accountability. And because the Bible tells us that those who teach the Word must submit to a stricter standard (James 3:1), we can’t just brush these things off.

At the same time, let’s remember that the devil would love to destroy another ministry that has blessed thousands and led many to Christ. I am a journalist, but I am also a Christian. I’m not going to rush to judgment. I love Randy and Paula and I have benefited from their courageous efforts to transform the inner city of Tampa.

So much is at stake here. Instead of going on a witch hunt, maybe we all need to reflect on what God is saying through this trouble in Tampa. And maybe we need to ask some hard questions that apply not only to the Whites but also to every ministry in this country. I usually get in trouble for asking questions, but ask them I will:

· Why do we put Christian leaders on pedestals and expect them to be superhuman?
· Why do we give church leaders unbridled authority and spending power?
· Why don’t church members require more ethical and financial accountability?
· How can we better train leaders to handle the pressures that come with fame and wealth?

Please pray for Randy and Paula, his daughter Kristen, and for Charisma as we seek to resolve these issues as a skeptical world watches.



J. Lee Grady is editor of Charisma.

[Thad]

* * Here's what I heard * * *


i heard that Lee Grady wanted to reveal a lot of things about Paula and randy a long time ago But Steve strang (owner of charisma) held him back.

finally, Strang Had no choice. there was So many Letters they could no longer keep silent


what do you think ?? are they giving them a pass ?
being fair ?? or only responding out of pressure ?
what ?

[Elizabeth]

The contest did not make a whole lot of sense in the first place.

You want to help people who other wise could NOT afford a home in the first place.

But to make them qualify for a morgage on a home before they can collect the down payment?

If they could qualify on their own, wouldnt that defeat the purpose of giving a home to someone who truly needed one?



Bottom line they should have just purchased the home for that woman.




I wonder though if Randy has more of the say with the money than Paula???

[Scott Hutchinson]

If these folks are loaded why don't they buy houses for these poor folks and take care of them?They Holler properity ,well faith without works is dead.

[Thad]

I agree- a down payment for people living in poverty ?? like they are going to be able to make a mogage every month - okay

[CC1]

So far their responses to the allegations have been very weak. If you can afford a 3.5 million dollar condo in NYC I would think you could have just bought that home outright for that lady that took the financial help class.

It obviously was a publicity stunt and there was no true intent to help the woman. They knew she did not qualify for a mortgage at the outset so either they should have had a prequalification process for entrants in the contest of just give the house, or finance the mortagage themselves.

[Praxeas]

* * Here's what I heard * * *


i heard that Lee Grady wanted to reveal a lot of things about Paula and randy a long time ago But Steve strang (owner of charisma) held him back.

finally, Strang Had no choice. there was So many Letters they could no longer keep silent


what do you think ?? are they giving them a pass ?
being fair ?? or only responding out of pressure ?
what ?
LG needs to start his own blog

[Elizabeth]

LG needs to start his own blog
There you go, I agree!

[ManOfWord]

All you need is......





ACCOUNTABILITY!

[H2H]

All you need is......





ACCOUNTABILITY!

Amen. That is the long and short of it.

[Thad]

RANDY


Any comments on this ??


where are you /??????????????????????????????

[chaotic_resolve]

I haven't trusted much of what JLG writes every since his "The Other Pentecostals" hit piece. I'd sooner believe a tabloid magazine over him.

[berkeley]

I haven't trusted much of what JLG writes every since his "The Other Pentecostals" hit piece. I'd sooner believe a tabloid magazine over him.

You didn't like that article?

[Steve Epley]

Grady just quoted his sources were you upset at the sources???????????

His view is typical of the Charismatic world that is so praised on this forum.

[Rhoni]

There’s Trouble in Tampa Bay


BY LEE GRADY


Some people think I have a glamorous career because I get to interview Christian authors, musicians and celebrities. I’ve never looked at it that way. In fact, sometimes the things I learn on this job make me downright sick.
I felt a bit woozy last week after learning about yet another potential scandal in the volatile world of independent charismatic ministries. I am referring to recent allegations made against Randy and Paula White, pastors of the 23,500-member Without Walls International Church in Tampa, Fla. After the Tampa Tribune ran a full-length investigative piece on the Whites on May 20, my e-mail box quickly became clogged with messages from all over the nation.


“Maybe we need to ask some hard questions that apply not only to the Whites but also to every ministry in this country.”



Everyone was asking the same question: “What is Charisma going to do about this?” Some accused me of “covering up” these allegations—even though I didn’t know about them yet.
Here’s my official answer: We are studying the situation and will interview the Whites to get their side of the story. I hope we discover that the charges are baseless because the body of Christ has endured enough disgrace in the last year.

The article in the Tribune raises fair questions about the Whites’ spending habits, accounting practices and business dealings. It mentions their $1.9 million jet, their $2.1 million home in Tampa and Paula’s $3.5 million Trump Tower condo in New York. It even claims that the Whites took economic advantage of an elderly widow in their congregation.

In a later article, which ran in the newspaper on May 25, a former member of the White’s church said she was told she won a free house in a contest the church sponsored in 2002. She even went to a ribbon cutting and was given a tour of the house—a celebration that was shown on local television. But today, 25-year-old LaShonda Dupree says Without Walls officials explained to her that they only intended to give her the down payment for the home.

The Whites, to their credit, provided responses to many of the Tribune’s questions. Regarding Dupree’s story, Randy told the newspaper that the contest clearly stated that the winner would get a down payment only. “We tried to do a good thing and it backfired,” he said.

Regarding the elderly widow, 85-year-old “Mother Ruth” McGinnis, the Whites claim that the woman fully agreed to their financial terms. Regarding their personal wealth and lucrative church budget, the Whites maintain that their church supports more than 90 missions and outreach programs and gave more than $3.1 million to various charities last year.

Just yesterday I was able to contact the Whites and got a short statement from them about the Tribune story. Paula told me: “In regards to the articles that have recently been published, we have been advised not to make an official statement at this time. However, Mother Ruth continues to sit on the front row and LaShonda [Dupree] continues to come to church every Sunday. The fruit of our ministry of evangelism and restoration speaks for itself and we continue to do what we are called to do.”

The newspaper raised other issues that relate more to the Whites’ flamboyant lifestyle than their business ethics. When asked about both Randy’s and Paula’s plastic surgeries, Randy told reporters that they must “look the part” in order to make their frequent television appearances. It also mentioned Randy’s tattoos, gun collection and a 2005 appearance on the cover of Makes and Models, a monthly magazine devoted to exotic cars and motorcycles.

The newspaper also mentioned widely circulated rumors about marital problems between the Whites—rumors that have been fueled by the fact that Paula spends much of her time in New York while Randy is trying to start a new congregation in Southern California to reach movie stars. Randy and Paula told the newspaper that they have been true to their marriage vows, while acknowledging that they are under a huge amount of stress because Randy’s adult daughter, Kristen Hernando, was recently diagnosed with a brain tumor and requires his constant attention.

What do we as Christians do when our leaders are accused of wrongdoing? In the case of Randy and Paula White, we must demand some answers. The public is requiring accountability. And because the Bible tells us that those who teach the Word must submit to a stricter standard (James 3:1), we can’t just brush these things off.

At the same time, let’s remember that the devil would love to destroy another ministry that has blessed thousands and led many to Christ. I am a journalist, but I am also a Christian. I’m not going to rush to judgment. I love Randy and Paula and I have benefited from their courageous efforts to transform the inner city of Tampa.

So much is at stake here. Instead of going on a witch hunt, maybe we all need to reflect on what God is saying through this trouble in Tampa. And maybe we need to ask some hard questions that apply not only to the Whites but also to every ministry in this country. I usually get in trouble for asking questions, but ask them I will:

· Why do we put Christian leaders on pedestals and expect them to be superhuman?
· Why do we give church leaders unbridled authority and spending power?
· Why don’t church members require more ethical and financial accountability?
· How can we better train leaders to handle the pressures that come with fame and wealth?

Please pray for Randy and Paula, his daughter Kristen, and for Charisma as we seek to resolve these issues as a skeptical world watches.



J. Lee Grady is editor of Charisma.

I agree with Lee Grady on this...prayer folks...we don't know what we'd do under the same circumstances...God showed me that a long time ago...and BTW where are the spiritual ones to restore in a spirit of humility? Just curious?

Blessings, Rhoni

[Steve Epley]

RESTORE to what??????????????

Impossible to RESTORE to something that has never been. These folks have never obeyed the gospel or preached the gospel. They need saving.

[chaotic_resolve]

You didn't like that article?
It had inaccurate numbers. Either Bro. Bernard or Seagraves did a point by point analysis of the story and found it riddled with inaccuracies.

It was a hit piece. "The Other Pentecostals."

[Steve Epley]

It had inaccurate numbers. Either Bro. Bernard or Seagraves did a point by point analysis of the story and found it riddled with inaccuracies.

It was a hit piece. "The Other Pentecostals."

In truth Grady thought it was complimentary a good friend of mine spoke to him he was amazed at the outrage. I think he was mirroring what those that he interveiwed told him or led him to believe. It is their fault not his. I also wrote a reply to his article and sent it to him.

[CupCake]

At the same time, let’s remember that the devil would love to destroy

This type of remark always make me laugh, most these people bring this stuff on themselves, the devil can't be everywhere at once, so please already. Christian's seem to have a hard time dealing with truths, and need to blame something or someone for all their evil doings or downfalls! Grow-up and be accountable for your OWN actions, stop blaming others.

[Rhoni]

This type of remark always make me laugh, most these people bring this stuff on themselves, the devil can't be everywhere at once, so please already. Christian's seem to have a hard time dealing with truths, and need to blame something or someone for all their evil doings or downfalls! Grow-up and be accountable for your OWN actions, stop blaming others.

:hanky
Preach on friend!

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

RESTORE to what??????????????

Impossible to RESTORE to something that has never been. These folks have never obeyed the gospel or preached the gospel. They need saving.

Randy and Paula White are spirit-filled...so where do you get off telling them they aren't saved?

Blessings, Sis. Rhoni

[CupCake]

:hanky
Preach on friend!

Blessings, Rhoni

Thank you doc.....;)

[Charlie Brown]

Randy and Paula White are spirit-filled...so where do you get off telling them they aren't saved?

Blessings, Sis. Rhoni

They are not baptized in the only saving name, the name of Jesus. So they are not only not saved, but they are leading countless thousands to hell with them because they teach a salvation doctrine contrary to the bible..

[Rhoni]

They are not baptized in the only saving name, the name of Jesus. So they are not only not saved, but they are leading countless thousands to hell with them because they teach a salvation doctrine contrary to the bible..


Pretty judgmental today Charlie Brown...good grief...go pray through till your Holy Ghost shines!:haloplug

Blessings, Sis. Rhoni

[RevDWW]

The Devil get's way to much credit for peoples actions. He can't make anybody do evil, he tempts, cajoles, and lies but they have to make the decision to act.

If the demons were as powerful as we ascribe sometimes, then the demonic with the legion would have never made it to Jesus. Chains could not bind him, but demons could not keep away from the Savior.

When the things of the flesh take center stage, you can expect problems. But the problems come when we act according to the flesh and not in the Spirit.

[Rhoni]

The Devil get's way to much credit for peoples actions. He can't make anybody do evil, he tempts, cajoles, and lies but they have to make the decision to act.

If the demons were as powerful as we ascribe sometimes, then the demonic with the legion would have never made it to Jesus. Chains could not bind him, but demons could not keep away from the Savior.

When the things of the flesh take center stage, you can expect problems. But the problems come when we act according to the flesh and not in the Spirit.


AMEN!

[RevDWW]

Pretty judgmental today Charlie Brown...good grief...go pray through till your Holy Ghost shines!:haloplug

Blessings, Sis. Rhoni

Good grief, do they are don't they proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ? Do they preach repentance, baptism in Jesus name and the infilling of the Holy Ghost?

[Rhoni]

Good grief, do they are don't they proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ? Do they preach repentance, baptism in Jesus name and the infilling of the Holy Ghost?

I've heard both of them preach and attended many services there. I know how they are spirit-filled...I have never witnessed their baptismal service...but I am not their judge...why do we have to judge them?

[tv1a]

If someone is making $5 million dollars/yr and giving away $3 million. What they do with the $2 million is their business.

Class envy is not good.

Every eagle has to deal with turkeys trying to ground them. Good luck to the Whites. Every turkey and their mother is after them.

[Rico]

They are not baptized in the only saving name, the name of Jesus. So they are not only not saved, but they are leading countless thousands to hell with them because they teach a salvation doctrine contrary to the bible..

Preach it, Charlie Brown!! AMEN!

[berkeley]

They used to baptize in Jesus' name. It's not popular anymore so they went back to using the titles.

[Thad]

I LOVE THIS ! ! ! :lol

[Thad]

Rhoni


you said you was there live in person when they had a baptismal ??

what was their formula ?? FSH or JN ?



It's been said that they use to be JN ?? I doubt that seriously

[berkeley]

I was familiar with a guy that attended Without Walls. He was adament that they baptized in Jesus' name. He was even "oneness" in that, he denied the trinity.
I wish I would have kept in contact with him.

[Thad]

when you have 20,000 people there , they don't know and usually dont care. they pretty much try to merge everything

[berkeley]

when you have 20,000 people there , they don't know and usually dont care. they pretty much try to merge everything

I heard Paula talking about Acts 2:38 on some show several yrs ago. If I had known it would come to this, I would have recoreded it. :)

[StillStanding]

Rhoni


you said you was there live in person when they had a baptismal ??

what was their formula ?? FSH or JN ?



It's been said that they use to be JN ?? I doubt that seriously
Thad, I was good friends with a doctor who relocated to Tampa and attended that church. They thought the services were good, until they heard someone get baptised in the titles. He said he approached Rev. White about baptism, and he said he would baptise you any way you wanted!

He eventially left that church!

[Thad]

A lot of Trin preachers quote Acts 238 however they don't feel it relates to initial salvation - believe me they do not teach UPC doctrine
the COC usues Acts 238 all the time- still Trin.
the entire mega church movement
will baptize either way. they don't get into doctrine or debate. their Aim is to be all things to all men

[berkeley]

A lot of Trin preachers quote Acts 238 however they don't feel it relates to initial salvation - believe me they do not teach UPC doctrine
the COC usues Acts 238 all the time- still Trin.
the entire mega church movement
will baptize either way. they don't get into doctrine or debate. their Aim is to be all things to all men

God forbid you take a stand on something and lose a few. All things to all men? I doubt that's the real reason. Money talk!!
I really wish I had recoreded it, she said something about "aposolic" and what not. Now I'm kickin myself....
Maybe there will be a replay!

[Steve Epley]

They are not baptized in the only saving name, the name of Jesus. So they are not only not saved, but they are leading countless thousands to hell with them because they teach a salvation doctrine contrary to the bible..

True.

[CC1]

A lot of Trin preachers quote Acts 238 however they don't feel it relates to initial salvation - believe me they do not teach UPC doctrine
the COC usues Acts 238 all the time- still Trin.
the entire mega church movement
will baptize either way. they don't get into doctrine or debate. their Aim is to be all things to all men


CC only baptizes one way!

[berkeley]

CC only baptizes one way!

Is baptism optional?

[Sherri]

CC only baptizes one way!If we ever get to be a "mega" church, whatever that is, we will still baptize in Jesus' name!

[berkeley]

If we ever get to be a "mega" church, whatever that is, we will still baptize in Jesus' name!

:bliss

[CC1]

Is baptism optional?

From the Christ Church Nashville web page under the heading "We Believe...."

... that all of God's people are to be buried with Christ in the waters of baptism, subsequent to conversion. While we freely embrace those of contrary opinion, we feel that this rite is scripturally administered "in the name of the Lord Jesus."

[Trouvere]

bump...maybe they were ashamed of how things had been going down finally.

[CC1]

I didn't notice the date of this thread when I first started reading then realized it was an old "response" from Charisma before they announced their divorce.

Hopefully Grady will do a followup piece. I thought he did a good job with the one above.

Hopefully there will be some successful preachers who are headed the same direction as the White's and that other prominent couple that are getting divorced that will take these crash and burn situations to heart and get their priorities straight.

The sad thing is that when preachers reach such popularity as this there will be a certain percentage of supporters that will continue to support them no matter what they do. In a small local church situation that is not enough to survive but if you retain just a fraction of your support from a Mega Church, TV, book sales, etc then you can financially make it just fine.

Just this weekend I saw where Ted Haggard has actually emailed supporters asking them to support him and his wife while they go to college!!!

[tamor]

I didn't notice the date of this thread when I first started reading then realized it was an old "response" from Charisma before they announced their divorce.

Hopefully Grady will do a followup piece. I thought he did a good job with the one above.

Hopefully there will be some successful preachers who are headed the same direction as the White's and that other prominent couple that are getting divorced that will take these crash and burn situations to heart and get their priorities straight.

The sad thing is that when preachers reach such popularity as this there will be a certain percentage of supporters that will continue to support them no matter what they do. In a small local church situation that is not enough to survive but if you retain just a fraction of your support from a Mega Church, TV, book sales, etc then you can financially make it just fine.

Just this weekend I saw where Ted Haggard has actually emailed supporters asking them to support him and his wife while they go to college!!!

That's pathetic. And what's even worse is that some poor chump will probably send them money!

[Trouvere]

Hey maybe we need Apostolic friends live and can start on our mansions in
the near future.lol

[CC1]

That's pathetic. And what's even worse is that some poor chump will probably send them money!

Yup. Jimmy Swaggart still stands behind a pulpit and has a TV ministry although both is congregation and TV audience are a mere fraction of what they used to be.

[OP_Carl]

Hey maybe we need Apostolic friends live and can start on our mansions in
the near future.lol

With interviews, testimonies, question and non-answer sessions, talent shows, choir and solo song specials, and cage wrestling grudge matches. :killinme

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

I read this and thought our resident recluse was now among the posting.

Alas, this was a bumped thread.

:sad

Bump Thread
No Thad
Hurts Head
So Sad

[tamor]

I read this and thought our resident recluse was now among the posting.

Alas, this was a bumped thread.

:sad

Bump Thread
No Thad
Hurts Head
So Sad



I did too!
I didn't have a clue
that it was not Thad.
So, we're still sad-
no Thad to be had!!

[Hoovie]

...and I thought Thad was AMOS...

[Trouvere]

With interviews, testimonies, question and non-answer sessions, talent shows, choir and solo song specials, and cage wrestling grudge matches. :killinme
haha...I was thinking more of a reality series.:hypercoffee

[Barb]

...and I thought Thad was AMOS...

:killinme

[Theresa]

I read this and thought our resident recluse was now among the posting.

Alas, this was a bumped thread.

:sad

Bump Thread
No Thad
Hurts Head
So Sad

he deleted his myspace profile too..

is he anti computer now?

[Trouvere]

Too bad.I liked his my space page.Wonder what he is up to?:telephone

[bdlooney]

I've heard both of them preach and attended many services there. I know how they are spirit-filled...I have never witnessed their baptismal service...but I am not their judge...why do we have to judge them?

Jesus Himself said that we could judge the tree by the fruit it bore.

Matthew 7:15-20
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

So it looks to me that judging by the fruit is biblical! :nod