Seriously disgusted with ...

[KeptByTheWord]

... at this time of year....


... all the Christmas materialism. Anyone else with me?

[shazeep]

:lol yup. dont do it, mmmkay. it's bad. :lol
danger, may make you unpopular tho

[phareztamar]

... at this time of year....


... all the Christmas materialism. Anyone else with me?

Right there with you my friend.

[KeptByTheWord]

If Christmas really was about celebrating the birth of Christ, and what his birth has meant to us, this would in no way bring about a desire to have heaps of gifts piled up under a tree for you and your loved ones, it would have nothing to do with a fat man in a red suit telling kids all their wishes have been granted, it would have nothing to do with the hundreds of bombardments of advertising by retailers to be sure you buy the perfect present for your loved one with fancy red bows on them, and it would have nothing to do with jingle bells, snowmen, candy canes, reindeer or sugar cookies.

All of it makes me sick.

I know there are threads about this every year. I just couldn't let this year go by without another one :D

[KeptByTheWord]

:lol yup. dont do it, mmmkay. it's bad. :lol
danger, may make you unpopular tho

Unpopular surely, but I do think more people are beginning to tire of the unending materialism pushed at you every where you go this time of year. Ugh.

[KeptByTheWord]

Right there with you my friend.

:highfive

[Lafon]

Nope! Not my "cup of tea" either! Never has been and never will be!

[Sasha]

I just don't see it that way at all. I guess I live in a different world.

[seguidordejesus]

If Christmas really was about celebrating the birth of Christ, and what his birth has meant to us, this would in no way bring about a desire to have heaps of gifts piled up under a tree for you and your loved ones, it would have nothing to do with a fat man in a red suit telling kids all their wishes have been granted, it would have nothing to do with the hundreds of bombardments of advertising by retailers to be sure you buy the perfect present for your loved one with fancy red bows on them, and it would have nothing to do with jingle bells, snowmen, candy canes, reindeer or sugar cookies.

All of it makes me sick.

I know there are threads about this every year. I just couldn't let this year go by without another one :D

So celebrate it yourself with the right focus and maybe you'll change someone else's life along the way.

[Michael The Disciple]

Its really a bad thing in my opinion. Teach children about a omnipresent invisible judge. Then when they find out it was all a lie.....try to preach the gospel of Jesus. So yes it is a lie and we should teach our children from scripture about the birth of Jesus.

[shazeep]

Unpopular surely, but I do think more people are beginning to tire of the unending materialism pushed at you every where you go this time of year. Ugh.yup, dunno if the current economy might be helping more there, or the fact that
everything seems to be overpriced plastic now...

[seguidordejesus]

Its really a bad thing in my opinion. Teach children about a omnipresent invisible judge. Then when they find out it was all a lie.....try to preach the gospel of Jesus. So yes it is a lie and we should teach our children from scripture about the birth of Jesus.

Nothing like lying to your kids for the first few years of their life to make them trust you :D

[KeptByTheWord]

The Birth of the Lord versus Day of Gifts

I've been thinking about this a lot, and what I'm about to say will probably really not go over well, but here it is... (help me Lord!)

Many people talk about keeping Christ in Christmas, when in reality history shows us that Christ was never the original reason for Christmas, but was an afterthought to try to get more people to participate in the pagan holiday celebrations. Perhaps it is time for a separation of the gift giving season, and the celebration of the birth of our Lord.

Christians who really want to make celebrating the birth of our Lord about simply that, His birth, should consider this. After all, most historians believe that Jesus was born closer to time of the Feast of Tabernacles (around the end of September, first of October). Why not celebrate the birth of our Lord then, when it will only be about Him? Set aside a day during that time of year and gather your family around, and tell the story of the Lord's birth, and have special worship and prayer together as a family thanking the Lord for the miracle that His birth brought to us. Have a day set aside that is really just about the Lord, and celebrating the miracle of his birth.

What happens today on Christmas generally is that the gift giving, huge meals, and all the rest that goes along with “Christmas” overshadows the supposed true reason for the day.

If the two were separated, and Christians were to set a day closer to the time frame Jesus was born as a day to really worship, and be thankful for his birth, then the celebration of the pagan holiday gift giving season could continue. It could be called - the Day of Gifts (a phrase I've coined, lol!) - and it could be celebrated like you would Valentines Day, 4th of July, or any other national holiday. This would ensure that the celebration of the Lord's birth would not be overshadowed by the materialistic mindset of the holiday season as we now know it. The "Day of Gifts" could be one where you give gifts to those you love and appreciate, and enjoy a simple family celebration together, and if you want to get excited about all the lights, tinsel, bows, sugar and gifts, then at least it wouldn’t be overshadowing the birth of the Lord, as it is now. The materialistic mindset of the season as it is now is so far from the original and true meaning of Christ’s birth, that the irony of it all is incredible. Christ came as a servant, a nobody, to be born in a stinky manger, with straw and poo as his bedding, and we somehow turn this scene into glitz, lights, gifts and “give me, give me”. The whole mentality is completely against and foreign to the very reason for His birth.

So... do you think it would work - to endeavor to keep the celebration of the birth of the Lord and the "Day of Gifts" separate?

In my opinion, the message and celebration of His birth is far overshadowed by the "give and get" mentality this time of year. I wish the two could be separated.

Is it even possible?

Does anyone else want to celebrate the Lord and all his many blessings because He chose to come and be born into this world in a stinky manger with pigs, sheep, cows and two scared parents to welcome him... all to redeem a world who didn’t even know Him, without having the time of worship complicated by thoughts of gift giving, food, parties, and indulgence?

I don't want the worship in my heart to Him for the message of what His birth means to me.... to be soiled and marred with the materialistic overtones of "give and get".

Our family in the last few years has began to turn away from the materialistic and pagan rituals of Christmas, and instead spent time in prayer early Christmas morning, after reading the story of the birth of the Lord, and shared loving gifts to each other that were small and meaningful. It has been a very special time together as a family.

However, I wonder if it could be taken a step further than this, and hence my reason for sharing this. It takes a long time to turn a huge ship around, but perhaps the more people begin to stop and think about it all, perhaps a change could be effected. Most people don’t stop and think about it, but simply go along with what tradition has always dictated. Maybe it is time to change that.

[phareztamar]

The Birth of the Lord versus Day of Gifts

I've been thinking about this a lot, and what I'm about to say will probably really not go over well, but here it is... (help me Lord!)

Many people talk about keeping Christ in Christmas, when in reality history shows us that Christ was never the original reason for Christmas, but was an afterthought to try to get more people to participate in the pagan holiday celebrations. Perhaps it is time for a separation of the gift giving season, and the celebration of the birth of our Lord.

Christians who really want to make celebrating the birth of our Lord about simply that, His birth, should consider this. After all, most historians believe that Jesus was born closer to time of the Feast of Tabernacles (around the end of September, first of October). Why not celebrate the birth of our Lord then, when it will only be about Him? Set aside a day during that time of year and gather your family around, and tell the story of the Lord's birth, and have special worship and prayer together as a family thanking the Lord for the miracle that His birth brought to us. Have a day set aside that is really just about the Lord, and celebrating the miracle of his birth.

What happens today on Christmas generally is that the gift giving, huge meals, and all the rest that goes along with “Christmas” overshadows the supposed true reason for the day.

If the two were separated, and Christians were to set a day closer to the time frame Jesus was born as a day to really worship, and be thankful for his birth, then the celebration of the pagan holiday gift giving season could continue. It could be called - the Day of Gifts (a phrase I've coined, lol!) - and it could be celebrated like you would Valentines Day, 4th of July, or any other national holiday. This would ensure that the celebration of the Lord's birth would not be overshadowed by the materialistic mindset of the holiday season as we now know it. The "Day of Gifts" could be one where you give gifts to those you love and appreciate, and enjoy a simple family celebration together, and if you want to get excited about all the lights, tinsel, bows, sugar and gifts, then at least it wouldn’t be overshadowing the birth of the Lord, as it is now. The materialistic mindset of the season as it is now is so far from the original and true meaning of Christ’s birth, that the irony of it all is incredible. Christ came as a servant, a nobody, to be born in a stinky manger, with straw and poo as his bedding, and we somehow turn this scene into glitz, lights, gifts and “give me, give me”. The whole mentality is completely against and foreign to the very reason for His birth.

So... do you think it would work - to endeavor to keep the celebration of the birth of the Lord and the "Day of Gifts" separate?

In my opinion, the message and celebration of His birth is far overshadowed by the "give and get" mentality this time of year. I wish the two could be separated.

Is it even possible?

Does anyone else want to celebrate the Lord and all his many blessings because He chose to come and be born into this world in a stinky manger with pigs, sheep, cows and two scared parents to welcome him... all to redeem a world who didn’t even know Him, without having the time of worship complicated by thoughts of gift giving, food, parties, and indulgence?

I don't want the worship in my heart to Him for the message of what His birth means to me.... to be soiled and marred with the materialistic overtones of "give and get".

Our family in the last few years has began to turn away from the materialistic and pagan rituals of Christmas, and instead spent time in prayer early Christmas morning, after reading the story of the birth of the Lord, and shared loving gifts to each other that were small and meaningful. It has been a very special time together as a family.

However, I wonder if it could be taken a step further than this, and hence my reason for sharing this. It takes a long time to turn a huge ship around, but perhaps the more people begin to stop and think about it all, perhaps a change could be effected. Most people don’t stop and think about it, but simply go along with what tradition has always dictated. Maybe it is time to change that.

Why you little rebel you. Next you'll be telling us that a bunny and eggs have absolutely nothing to do with the resurrection.

[Sasha]

Its really a bad thing in my opinion. Teach children about a omnipresent invisible judge. Then when they find out it was all a lie.....try to preach the gospel of Jesus. So yes it is a lie and we should teach our children from scripture about the birth of Jesus.

I have heard people state the above, but I have yet to encounter someone who blames the lie of Santa as the reason they don't believe in Jesus.

Give intelligent people more credit than that.

BTW, if your wife asks if her dress makes her look fat and it does, you might want to lie to her. LOL

[Sasha]

Nothing like lying to your kids for the first few years of their life to make them trust you :D

I lie to mine all the time. Told my son this morning that if he continued biting his fingers, they will get infected and fall off. LOL!

[Sasha]

Or you can teach your children about the spirit of Santa, who is like a type of Christ. If you read your history, you will find who "Saint Nick" really was. Christ is a giver of gifts. We give to others not to get, but to freely give...to be like Christ. Whatever day you want to choose, the idea remains the same. We don't give to get as Christ doesn't give to get. The Spirit of Christmas is one I love that I practice throughout the year, not just on one day, however, it's nice to have a day where we can collectively participate in giving as Christ gave.

We teach the Spirit of Santa in my house. All of my children will tell you they believe in Santa. Santa is not the fat guy in a red suit. Santa is each of us. Santa started out as a man giving gifts to others...not to those who deserved it, but to everyone. Santa has been changed according to the ideology of this society and department stores, but that's not who the real Santa is.

Do I believe in Santa? Absolutely. He is real in my house. He is real in me.

[thephnxman]

I have heard people state the above, but I have yet to encounter someone who blames the lie of Santa as the reason they don't believe in Jesus.
Give intelligent people more credit than that.
BTW, if your wife asks if her dress makes her look fat and it does, you might want to lie to her. LOL

I don't think it is the act of outwardly denying the Lord; rather, it is only a very small deviation at the onset,
that results in "missing the mark", at the outset.

[Michael The Disciple]

Or you can teach your children about the spirit of Santa, who is like a type of Christ. If you read your history, you will find who "Saint Nick" really was. Christ is a giver of gifts. We give to others not to get, but to freely give...to be like Christ. Whatever day you want to choose, the idea remains the same. We don't give to get as Christ doesn't give to get. The Spirit of Christmas is one I love that I practice throughout the year, not just on one day, however, it's nice to have a day where we can collectively participate in giving as Christ gave.

We teach the Spirit of Santa in my house. All of my children will tell you they believe in Santa. Santa is not the fat guy in a red suit. Santa is each of us. Santa started out as a man giving gifts to others...not to those who deserved it, but to everyone. Santa has been changed according to the ideology of this society and department stores, but that's not who the real Santa is.

Do I believe in Santa? Absolutely. He is real in my house. He is real in me.

Do you teach the Easter Bunny too? Is he also in you?

[Michael The Disciple]

Even Luke who wrote one of the gospels didn't know when Jesus was born. Or even how old he was.

Luke 3:23

23And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,

Luke said Jesus was ABOUT 30. What does that tell you? Do you think he ever heard anyone saying we should celebrate the Lords birthday on Dec. 25?

[jfrog]

Nothing like lying to your kids for the first few years of their life to make them trust you :D

You speak to kids as they will understand. If a kid doesn't know what being burnt is you don't tell them that oven will burn you... instead you come up with a way of telling them not to go near it because it will hurt them.

It's not lying to speak to someone in words they will understand.

[Sasha]

Do you teach the Easter Bunny too? Is he also in you?

The Easter Bunny is meaningless in my house but just like with Santa, I've never heard anyone deny Jesus because of the lie of the Easter Bunny.

[Lafon]

These word of Paul, written to the 1st Century Christians at Galatia, gives me sufficient Scriptural evidence for refusing to believe in Santa, participate in the ritual of "Christmas," or teach others that its "no big deal" if they choose to do so:

"But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain."

What better reason does one require for refusing to become involved in Santa Claus, or Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer foolishness? I know of NONE!

[KeptByTheWord]

Why you little rebel you. Next you'll be telling us that a bunny and eggs have absolutely nothing to do with the resurrection.

:nod

[KeptByTheWord]

My thought remains this. If we really want to celebrate gift giving, call it a day of gifts. If we really want to celebrate the birth of the Lord, then lets just simply do that. Going and mixing in a ton of other unrelated ideas like santa, reindeer, jingle bells, candy canes, twinkling lights, and so on has nothing to do with the birth of the Lord. Even children can understand there is a difference.

[KeptByTheWord]

These word of Paul, written to the 1st Century Christians at Galatia, gives me sufficient Scriptural evidence for refusing to believe in Santa, participate in the ritual of "Christmas," or teach others that its "no big deal" if they choose to do so:

"But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain."

What better reason does one require for refusing to become involved in Santa Claus, or Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer foolishness? I know of NONE!

I've read that scripture many times, and never thought that it would apply to Christmas, well, because they didn't even have a "Christmas" then. I've always understood that verse to mean the Jewish calendar holidays and celebrations.

But... keeping a day set apart to worship the Lord - separately and distinctly - and not combining it with a host of other holiday traditions, I certainly think would be in keeping with the principle this verse is speaking of.

[KeptByTheWord]

Or you can teach your children about the spirit of Santa, who is like a type of Christ. If you read your history, you will find who "Saint Nick" really was. Christ is a giver of gifts. We give to others not to get, but to freely give...to be like Christ. Whatever day you want to choose, the idea remains the same. We don't give to get as Christ doesn't give to get. The Spirit of Christmas is one I love that I practice throughout the year, not just on one day, however, it's nice to have a day where we can collectively participate in giving as Christ gave.

We teach the Spirit of Santa in my house. All of my children will tell you they believe in Santa. Santa is not the fat guy in a red suit. Santa is each of us. Santa started out as a man giving gifts to others...not to those who deserved it, but to everyone. Santa has been changed according to the ideology of this society and department stores, but that's not who the real Santa is.

Do I believe in Santa? Absolutely. He is real in my house. He is real in me.

By all means, have yourself a Merry Christmas :)

[seguidordejesus]

You speak to kids as they will understand. If a kid doesn't know what being burnt is you don't tell them that oven will burn you... instead you come up with a way of telling them not to go near it because it will hurt them.

It's not lying to speak to someone in words they will understand.

This makes no sense in the context of this discussion.

[thephnxman]

This makes no sense in the context of this discussion.

You know, Beloved, too many adults have forgotten (or perhaps they never knew) what "tu-tu" means.
Kids understand that, if they are taught.

[seguidordejesus]

You know, Beloved, too many adults have forgotten (or perhaps they never knew) what "tu-tu" means.
Kids understand that, if they are taught.

What?

And why are you calling me beloved?

[thephnxman]

What?

And why are you calling me beloved?

Sorry. Didn't know you were exempted.

[BrotherEastman]

What?

And why are you calling me beloved?

Do you not want to be beloved by your Christian brothers and sisters? What was wrong with that?

[seguidordejesus]

Do you not want to be beloved by your Christian brothers and sisters? What was wrong with that?

It's freaky, since I don't know the person. And I also find it condescending and distracting and contrived.

And my main point what whatever "tu-tu" was supposed to mean and how that related.

[FalseFreedom]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafon View Post
These word of Paul, written to the 1st Century Christians at Galatia, gives me sufficient Scriptural evidence for refusing to believe in Santa, participate in the ritual of "Christmas," or teach others that its "no big deal" if they choose to do so:

"But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain."

What better reason does one require for refusing to become involved in Santa Claus, or Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer foolishness? I know of NONE!
I've read that scripture many times, and never thought that it would apply to Christmas, well, because they didn't even have a "Christmas" then. I've always understood that verse to mean the Jewish calendar holidays and celebrations.

But... keeping a day set apart to worship the Lord - separately and distinctly - and not combining it with a host of other holiday traditions, I certainly think would be in keeping with the principle this verse is speaking of.

You have believed this to be assigned to the "Jewish feasts and holydays" however, Lafond has placed this in the proper context. First of all the "jewish feasts" are God's Feasts and Holy days and should never be assigned to the weak and beggarly elements of the world. Second, God's Feasts are more Christian in nature than they were ever Judaistic. Every appointed time (Feast) pointed to the Messiah (Jesus) and therefore Christian Holydays and not weak and beggarly.

Now think of this when you want to practice a worldly holyday and assign the name of God to the practice of it. the same applies to Easter, Halloween, and any other holiday thought up by the vain philosophies of mankind that become the spoils of those that rob you of our Fathers ways and blessings.

[KeptByTheWord]

You have believed this to be assigned to the "Jewish feasts and holydays" however, Lafond has placed this in the proper context. First of all the "jewish feasts" are God's Feasts and Holy days and should never be assigned to the weak and beggarly elements of the world. Second, God's Feasts are more Christian in nature than they were ever Judaistic. Every appointed time (Feast) pointed to the Messiah (Jesus) and therefore Christian Holydays and not weak and beggarly.

Now think of this when you want to practice a worldly holyday and assign the name of God to the practice of it. the same applies to Easter, Halloween, and any other holiday thought up by the vain philosophies of mankind that become the spoils of those that rob you of our Fathers ways and blessings.

There is no directive, either in the words of Jesus, or in the words of Paul, or any other NT writer on exactly which days of the Lord should be kept, is there? I haven't found them.

What I have found is that no day should be set apart as better or less than another, but that every day should be worthy of giving the Lord our best.

[MarkBelosa]

The Birth of the Lord versus Day of Gifts

I've been thinking about this a lot, and what I'm about to say will probably really not go over well, but here it is... (help me Lord!)

Many people talk about keeping Christ in Christmas, when in reality history shows us that Christ was never the original reason for Christmas, but was an afterthought to try to get more people to participate in the pagan holiday celebrations. Perhaps it is time for a separation of the gift giving season, and the celebration of the birth of our Lord.

Christians who really want to make celebrating the birth of our Lord about simply that, His birth, should consider this. After all, most historians believe that Jesus was born closer to time of the Feast of Tabernacles (around the end of September, first of October). Why not celebrate the birth of our Lord then, when it will only be about Him? Set aside a day during that time of year and gather your family around, and tell the story of the Lord's birth, and have special worship and prayer together as a family thanking the Lord for the miracle that His birth brought to us. Have a day set aside that is really just about the Lord, and celebrating the miracle of his birth.

What happens today on Christmas generally is that the gift giving, huge meals, and all the rest that goes along with “Christmas” overshadows the supposed true reason for the day.

If the two were separated, and Christians were to set a day closer to the time frame Jesus was born as a day to really worship, and be thankful for his birth, then the celebration of the pagan holiday gift giving season could continue. It could be called - the Day of Gifts (a phrase I've coined, lol!) - and it could be celebrated like you would Valentines Day, 4th of July, or any other national holiday. This would ensure that the celebration of the Lord's birth would not be overshadowed by the materialistic mindset of the holiday season as we now know it. The "Day of Gifts" could be one where you give gifts to those you love and appreciate, and enjoy a simple family celebration together, and if you want to get excited about all the lights, tinsel, bows, sugar and gifts, then at least it wouldn’t be overshadowing the birth of the Lord, as it is now. The materialistic mindset of the season as it is now is so far from the original and true meaning of Christ’s birth, that the irony of it all is incredible. Christ came as a servant, a nobody, to be born in a stinky manger, with straw and poo as his bedding, and we somehow turn this scene into glitz, lights, gifts and “give me, give me”. The whole mentality is completely against and foreign to the very reason for His birth.

So... do you think it would work - to endeavor to keep the celebration of the birth of the Lord and the "Day of Gifts" separate?

In my opinion, the message and celebration of His birth is far overshadowed by the "give and get" mentality this time of year. I wish the two could be separated.

Is it even possible?

Does anyone else want to celebrate the Lord and all his many blessings because He chose to come and be born into this world in a stinky manger with pigs, sheep, cows and two scared parents to welcome him... all to redeem a world who didn’t even know Him, without having the time of worship complicated by thoughts of gift giving, food, parties, and indulgence?

I don't want the worship in my heart to Him for the message of what His birth means to me.... to be soiled and marred with the materialistic overtones of "give and get".

Our family in the last few years has began to turn away from the materialistic and pagan rituals of Christmas, and instead spent time in prayer early Christmas morning, after reading the story of the birth of the Lord, and shared loving gifts to each other that were small and meaningful. It has been a very special time together as a family.

However, I wonder if it could be taken a step further than this, and hence my reason for sharing this. It takes a long time to turn a huge ship around, but perhaps the more people begin to stop and think about it all, perhaps a change could be effected. Most people don’t stop and think about it, but simply go along with what tradition has always dictated. Maybe it is time to change that.

Interesting thought! I kinda like it.

The group that I fellowship with don't celebrate it, and I also don't. But through the years I have "developed" a greater sense of "tolerance" for those who do.

Here in the Philippines, the Christmas season starts as early as September and lasts until about early to mid January. If I had it my way, I probably would set up a special day of worship as you suggested (last Sunday of Sept maybe?) to celebrate the birth of the Lord, minus the pagan symbols, etc. and then invite unbelievers. I don't know about others but I have observed that some people tend to be more kindhearted and open to hearing about Jesus during this time of the year so we might as well take advantage of it. :D

Not sure how my pastor would react to this, in case I suggest it to him, but given the conservative stance of the church on this matter, I doubt if they would entertain any association with the celebration of Christmas whatsoever.

[Esphes45]

I teach my kids to celebrate the birth of Christ every day by living a good life. That is what it is all about.

Luke 1:75 - In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

[Lafon]

There is no directive, either in the words of Jesus, or in the words of Paul, or any other NT writer on exactly which days of the Lord should be kept, is there? I haven't found them.

What I have found is that no day should be set apart as better or less than another, but that every day should be worthy of giving the Lord our best.


Under the dictates of the Law the Sabbath (7th Day) was consecrated as holy unto the Lord ("Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy" - Exodus 20:8), for it was symbolic of the 7th day when the LORD God rested "from all his work which he had made" (Genesis 2:2).

However, with the institution of the "New Covenant," and the giving of the Spirit to His saints, we are told that "This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing" (see Isaiah 28:11-12).

I am persuaded to believe that it was because of Isaiah's prophetic words that Paul the apostle was prompted to pen the words of Galatians 4:9-11, wherein he questioned why these saints (as well as every saint today) were desirous of returning to the former practice of "observing days," such as the Sabbath, expressing his fear that all of his labor in assisting them to become Christians had been expended in vain should they continue to do so.

Therefore, because of these things, as well as the admonitions contained in Hebrews 4:1-11 regarding the "rest" which God gives to those to whom He has given to possess the Spirit, then, for me, I do not, nor will I ever again, as I did prior to my conversion from the beggarly elements of the world, esteem one day above another, for every day is to be construed as being holy unto the Lord.

[KeptByTheWord]

Therefore, because of these things, as well as the admonitions contained in Hebrews 4:1-11 regarding the "rest" which God gives to those to whom He has given to possess the Spirit, then, for me, I do not, nor will I ever again, as I did prior to my conversion from the beggarly elements of the world, esteem one day above another, for every day is to be construed as being holy unto the Lord.

I do believe what you have said that Christ has become our rest.

However.... when tradition has set aside a "day" to worship the Lord, such as Easter and Christmas, do you think that as Christians, we should not observe those days?

And what about Sabbath or Sunday worship, which believers from both Messianic and Christian camps set aside each day to worship? Are these wrong as well?

So I am just wondering... is going to church on Sunday setting aside a day that could be construed as returning to the "beggarly elements"?

[Esphes45]

I do believe what you have said that Christ has become our rest.

However.... when tradition has set aside a "day" to worship the Lord, such as Easter and Christmas, do you think that as Christians, we should not observe those days?

And what about Sabbath or Sunday worship, which believers from both Messianic and Christian camps set aside each day to worship? Are these wrong as well?

So I am just wondering... is going to church on Sunday setting aside a day that could be construed as returning to the "beggarly elements"?

I believe you should treat them as any other day. Holy unto the Lord.

This is another one of my pet peeves. You can make whatever day your "get together/fellowship worship day". Out of convenience I like Sunday (morning especially). The apostolic churches I know have weekday services also which end at a un-kid friendly time and if you miss them you are quoted Hebrews 10:25.

[Reader]

There is no directive, either in the words of Jesus, or in the words of Paul, or any other NT writer on exactly which days of the Lord should be kept, is there? I haven't found them.

What I have found is that no day should be set apart as better or less than another, but that every day should be worthy of giving the Lord our best.

Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. 7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. 8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. 9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

10But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother?

How about everyone allows each person to celebrate or not celebrate without judging them or considering them to be doing something wrong?

While I do not like the commercialism at this time of year, I still celebrate Christmas. I don't bow down to any tree, don't say Santa is real and I don't get pulled into the stores with the madness of the season. I realize Jesus was not born that day, but if I choose to remember his birth on that day, it is my business and nobody else. If I choose to give anyone a gift on that day or receive any gift, it is my business alone. Just as it is on any other day of the year.

[BrotherEastman]

Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. 7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. 8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. 9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

10But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother?

How about everyone allows each person to celebrate or not celebrate without judging them or considering them to be doing something wrong?

While I do not like the commercialism at this time of year, I still celebrate Christmas. I don't bow down to any tree, don't say Santa is real and I don't get pulled into the stores with the madness of the season. I realize Jesus was not born that day, but if I choose to remember his birth on that day, it is my business and nobody else. If I choose to give anyone a gift on that day or receive any gift, it is my business alone. Just as it is on any other day of the year.

Very well said.

[Pressing-On]

Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. 7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. 8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. 9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

10But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother?

How about everyone allows each person to celebrate or not celebrate without judging them or considering them to be doing something wrong?

While I do not like the commercialism at this time of year, I still celebrate Christmas. I don't bow down to any tree, don't say Santa is real and I don't get pulled into the stores with the madness of the season. I realize Jesus was not born that day, but if I choose to remember his birth on that day, it is my business and nobody else. If I choose to give anyone a gift on that day or receive any gift, it is my business alone. Just as it is on any other day of the year.

Very well said.

Very well said. And Kept also has the right to voice how she feels about it.

After all, and I do have a lovely tree this year - BUT - isn't it strange that we sit around a dead tree and eat candy out of a sock? :heeheehee

[BrotherEastman]

Very well said. And Kept also has the right to voice how she feels about it.

After all, and I do have a lovely tree this year - BUT - isn't it strange that we sit around a dead tree and eat candy out of a sock? :heeheehee

Strange? Traditionally speaking? perhaps not. However, I digress there does seem to be an element of materialism involved.

[KeptByTheWord]

Very well said. And Kept also has the right to voice how she feels about it.

After all, and I do have a lovely tree this year - BUT - isn't it strange that we sit around a dead tree and eat candy out of a sock? :heeheehee

Thanks PO. I realize that setting aside a day out of the year to celebrate the birth of the Lord really has become something that is NOT about Him, and more about tradition. I don't know how to separate out the two, or if I should. I just know that every year at Christmas I cringe when people talk about all the stress in their life because of the holidays, how much they have gone into debt to provide gifts for their family, and how much gluttony is involved with all the cakes, candy, cookies and more that are just everywhere. Where is Christ in that?

But, I do know that on the flip side, many people become very generous this time of year, donating their time, money, and efforts to helping people who are less fortunate than they. That really is the true spirit of Christmas, and so I know that Christmas isn't "all" bad.

It is just like you said though - sitting around a dead tree, eating candy out of a sock... all the silly things that are done this time of year because of a tradition... really have no connection to Christ, much as we may try to think they do.

[KeptByTheWord]

How about everyone allows each person to celebrate or not celebrate without judging them or considering them to be doing something wrong?

While I do not like the commercialism at this time of year, I still celebrate Christmas. I don't bow down to any tree, don't say Santa is real and I don't get pulled into the stores with the madness of the season. I realize Jesus was not born that day, but if I choose to remember his birth on that day, it is my business and nobody else. If I choose to give anyone a gift on that day or receive any gift, it is my business alone. Just as it is on any other day of the year.

I do understand, and agree with what you've said. I'm glad that you aren't caught up in the commercialism materialistic side of Christmas that most people get into this time of year.

It would be so nice to keep the day of Christmas about the Lord, and celebrating His birth, and avoid the pit falls that the retail businesses would have you fall into.

[KeptByTheWord]

I believe you should treat them as any other day. Holy unto the Lord.

This is another one of my pet peeves. You can make whatever day your "get together/fellowship worship day". Out of convenience I like Sunday (morning especially). The apostolic churches I know have weekday services also which end at a un-kid friendly time and if you miss them you are quoted Hebrews 10:25.

Thanks for sharing your opinion Esphes... I do tend to agree. However when a day is named specifically and celebrated for the birth of our Lord, and yet everything that happens on, about, and around that day falls into complete contradiction to the very reason and values that He came for, do these very traditions like Santa, Christmas Trees, reindeers, snowmen, massive holiday debt, stress, gluttony, and the such like become like a slap in the face to the Lord? That is what I am trying to muddle through.

[Carl]

I know every year when christmas comes around I think, it is supposed to be about Jesus, but I wonder how much of the attention really is going to him. Is he really blessed by all of it. Also, a lot of effort goes into producing some temporary feelings of joy and peace when really he came to give us real joy and peace.

[Esphes45]

Is it me or do alot of Apostolic churches celebrate Christmas?

Personally I believe Christmas should be something that is "celebrated" every day.

Christmas is not a one day event. It should be every day.
You should not only want to help the homeless on Dec 25th.
You should not only want to think about the birth of Jesus on Dec 25th.

Remember the bible says that we might serve him in holiness all the days of our life. not just 12/25.

I heard a preacher once say, people will walk past a homeless person every day of the year without giving them a nickel but on Dec 25th!, They will bring them food, clothes and money! And we call ourselves "saints"?

That's not like Jesus.

Churches that have "Christmas" and "Easter" services are just doing it for marketing purposes many times. They realize if you flash Christmas in the front of the church, people will walk in. IMO, they should be ashamed of themselves.

[thephnxman]

Thanks for sharing your opinion Esphes... I do tend to agree. However when a day is named specifically and celebrated for the birth of our Lord, and yet everything that happens on, about, and around that day falls into complete contradiction to the very reason and values that He came for, do these very traditions like Santa, Christmas Trees, reindeers, snowmen, massive holiday debt, stress, gluttony, and the such like become like a slap in the face to the Lord? That is what I am trying to muddle through.

Try this: stand in front of the mirror and sing: "Happy Birthday to you...". Because the "...word of God that lives
and abides forever..." has been begotten in YOU!

[Abiding Now]

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a77/OldPath/OldPath002/LinusExplainsChristmas.jpg (http://s9.photobucket.com/user/OldPath/media/OldPath002/LinusExplainsChristmas.jpg.html)

[thephnxman]

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a77/OldPath/OldPath002/LinusExplainsChristmas.jpg (http://s9.photobucket.com/user/OldPath/media/OldPath002/LinusExplainsChristmas.jpg.html)

You make it difficult to refute your post...I mean...who wants to argue against Linus???

[Pressing-On]

Strange? Traditionally speaking? perhaps not. However, I digress there does seem to be an element of materialism involved.

Thanks PO. I realize that setting aside a day out of the year to celebrate the birth of the Lord really has become something that is NOT about Him, and more about tradition. I don't know how to separate out the two, or if I should. I just know that every year at Christmas I cringe when people talk about all the stress in their life because of the holidays, how much they have gone into debt to provide gifts for their family, and how much gluttony is involved with all the cakes, candy, cookies and more that are just everywhere. Where is Christ in that?

But, I do know that on the flip side, many people become very generous this time of year, donating their time, money, and efforts to helping people who are less fortunate than they. That really is the true spirit of Christmas, and so I know that Christmas isn't "all" bad.

It is just like you said though - sitting around a dead tree, eating candy out of a sock... all the silly things that are done this time of year because of a tradition... really have no connection to Christ, much as we may try to think they do.

I was actually referring to this by Maxine. LOL!

http://youngadventuress.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Christmas-Maxine1.jpg

Merry Christmas. My company has just now arrived! I am out until next year. Love ya!

[KeptByTheWord]

I was actually referring to this by Maxine. LOL!

Merry Christmas. My company has just now arrived! I am out until next year. Love ya!

Have a blessed time with your company over the holidays! :)

[KeptByTheWord]

AbidingNow - that was a great post! Just loved it actually! Pretty much sums up how I feel about Christmas. It never really was about Christ in the beginning, but was a combining of pagan and Christian beliefs from the get go. Which, in my opinion, makes celebrating Christmas the bigger question. Should we combine a celebration of the Lord's birth with a pagan celebration?

[shazeep]

ty i mean look what it's turned into arg. pass. look what you do to your kids with that :lol
keep the linus part tho :D