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Steve Epley
06-13-2007, 08:48 AM
Looks that way to me more and more. Some very bitter folks on this forum Lois would love to have y'all. :poloroid

rgcraig
06-13-2007, 08:50 AM
No Bro. Epley it is not.

There is a mix. For every ex-UPC post there is a UPC post.

revrandy
06-13-2007, 08:50 AM
I don't feel it is...

Nahum
06-13-2007, 08:50 AM
Oh, I'm sure it will take a more conservative turn before long. Maybe they are in hiding right now?

SDG
06-13-2007, 08:52 AM
Me hizo Pentecostal.... de la cabeza a los pies.

He made me a Pentecostal from my head to my feet .... a favorite Spanish praise song.

Ronzo
06-13-2007, 08:52 AM
Oh, I'm sure it will take a more conservative turn before long. Maybe they are in hiding right now?
Most of the "owners" are UPC licensed ministers, aren't they?

I highly doubt they'd 'allow' this place to become an 'ex-pentecostal' site.

Steve Epley
06-13-2007, 08:52 AM
No Bro. Epley it is not.

There is a mix. For every ex-UPC post there is a UPC post.

The tone NOT yours from some are becoming more hostile toward not just conservatives but Pentecost in general. Folks leaving Pentecostal churches are lauded as though they have made a breakthrough. If I knew how to do a poll I would ask do they go to a Pentecostal church?

originalsecretplace
06-13-2007, 08:53 AM
Looks that way to me more and more. Some very bitter folks on this forum Lois would love to have y'all. :poloroid

What's an "ex-pentecostal" ?

mizpeh
06-13-2007, 08:53 AM
Looks that way to me more and more. Some very bitter folks on this forum Lois would love to have y'all. :poloroid

Bro Elpey, Are you using the word, Pentecostal, in a very broad sense? I think of Pentecostal as those who have experienced what the disciples experienced on the day of Pentecost... the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. So even Charismatics would come under my definition of Pentecostal.

originalsecretplace
06-13-2007, 08:54 AM
The tone NOT yours from some are becoming more hostile toward not just conservatives but Pentecost in general. Folks leaving Pentecostal churches are lauded as though they have made a breakthrough. If I knew how to do a poll I would ask do they go to a Pentecostal church?

Define a "pentecostal" church.

Subdued
06-13-2007, 08:54 AM
I am Pentecostal.

Nahum
06-13-2007, 08:55 AM
The tone NOT yours from some are becoming more hostile toward not just conservatives but Pentecost in general. Folks leaving Pentecostal churches are lauded as though they have made a breakthrough. If I knew how to do a poll I would ask do they go to a Pentecostal church?

The trend is troubling. I hate it when people leave truth and others praise them for their newfound "freedom". It's as if abandoning all doctrine is meritorious.

On the other hand, legalism drives me batty too.

ILG
06-13-2007, 08:55 AM
Looks that way to me more and more. Some very bitter folks on this forum Lois would love to have y'all. :poloroid

Sheesh. :rolleyes:

Steve Epley
06-13-2007, 08:56 AM
Oh, I'm sure it will take a more conservative turn before long. Maybe they are in hiding right now?

Not speaking of conservatives YOU are Pentecostal even CC1 & Pianoman claim to be Pentecostal we fuss issues. I fuss with the libs and mods but they do claim to be Pentecostal but of late it seems a swing in some to an ANTI-Pentecostal stance? Maybe I am reading this wrong? I wish those that knows how do to it would ask in a poll Do you go to a Pentecostal church?

Nahum
06-13-2007, 08:57 AM
I will say that ultraconservatism seems to be on the ropes here at AFF.

Sheltiedad
06-13-2007, 08:57 AM
If 500 people walk by dressed in black, and two or three people are doing cartwheels among them dressed in bright red, you are gonna notice the folks doing the cartwheels...

Steve Epley
06-13-2007, 08:58 AM
Bro Elpey, Are you using the word, Pentecostal, in a very broad sense? I think of Pentecostal as those who have experienced what the disciples experienced on the day of Pentecost... the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. So even Charismatics would come under my definition of Pentecostal.

NOPE Pentecostal are those who preach Acts 2:38 whether from the PCI or PAJC stance. Teach the Oneness of God and baptize in Jesus Name. Very broad but not that broad.

BoredOutOfMyMind
06-13-2007, 08:58 AM
Define a "pentecostal" church.

A body of believers who believe in a literal infilling of the Holy Ghost the same as in Acts 2:1-4.

Oneness Pentecostals reject the notiion of a Trinity, and believe Matt 28:19 is fullfilled in Acts 2:38.

Nahum
06-13-2007, 08:59 AM
Not speaking of conservatives YOU are Pentecostal even CC1 & Pianoman claim to be Pentecostal we fuss issues. I fuss with the libs and mods but they do claim to be Pentecostal but of late it seems a swing in some to an ANTI-Pentecostal stance? Maybe I am reading this wrong? I wish those that knows how do to it would ask in a poll Do you go to a Pentecostal church?


You are not wrong on this one friend. There is a group of about 20-25 AFF posters who are totally anti-Pentecostal. They will defend all sorts of whack jobs who preach fluff and cotton candy but condemn those who hold to the roots of Pentecostalism.

CC1
06-13-2007, 08:59 AM
Looks that way to me more and more. Some very bitter folks on this forum Lois would love to have y'all. :poloroid

I think we are in one of those periods of flux where the conservatives are not posting much. That doesn't help for the balance.

It also seems that the posters with the most time on their hands to post are some of the least stable and more "out there" ones regardless of what stripe of Pentecost they are.

There are two people in particular that seem to be dominating the board and neither one represent either old time Pentecost or thinking libs.

No I will not name them publicly but a PM is incoming to you!!!

ILG
06-13-2007, 08:59 AM
Not speaking of conservatives YOU are Pentecostal even CC1 & Pianoman claim to be Pentecostal we fuss issues. I fuss with the libs and mods but they do claim to be Pentecostal but of late it seems a swing in some to an ANTI-Pentecostal stance? Maybe I am reading this wrong? I wish those that knows how do to it would ask in a poll Do you go to a Pentecostal church?

I am not anti-pentecostal. I just spoke in tongues in my prayer time this morning. I am, however, attending a more evangelical-flavored church and I do question how Pentecostals apply the verses not to speak in tongues in the church lest unbelievers think you are mad. 1 Cor. 14:22,23

22Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

23If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

Digging4Truth
06-13-2007, 09:00 AM
Pentecostal here...

No ex involved.

BoredOutOfMyMind
06-13-2007, 09:00 AM
If 500 people walk by dressed in black, and two or three people are doing cartwheels among them dressed in bright red, you are gonna notice the folks doing the cartwheels...

We have 20 doing cartwheels lately it seems.

Maybe we could get some head nods from those dressed in black.

mizpeh
06-13-2007, 09:00 AM
NOPE Pentecostal are those who preach Acts 2:38 whether from the PCI or PAJC stance. Teach the Oneness of God and baptize in Jesus Name. Very broad but not that broad.
Okay, so it's not just the experience in the upper room but the message also.

Steve Epley
06-13-2007, 09:02 AM
The trend is troubling. I hate it when people leave truth and others praise them for their newfound "freedom". It's as if abandoning all doctrine is meritorious.

On the other hand, legalism drives me batty too.

PP we fuss about nearly everything and enjoy the fussing but I in no way say you are not Pentecostal. CC1 & Pianoman neither believe in the necessity of water and Spirit but clearly believe the Oneness message and baptism in Jesus Name being the only correct way to baptize. However some think Pentecost is a pile of dung it seems and it is getting a little old.

originalsecretplace
06-13-2007, 09:03 AM
A body of believers who believe in a literal infilling of the Holy Ghost the same as in Acts 2:1-4.

Oneness Pentecostals reject the notiion of a Trinity, and believe Matt 28:19 is fullfilled in Acts 2:38.

Thank you.

I believe in the infilling of the HG so I guess you can label me Pentecostal But I'd rather be called just a member of the body of Christ or a Christian.

Whole Hearted
06-13-2007, 09:03 AM
The tone NOT yours from some are becoming more hostile toward not just conservatives but Pentecost in general. Folks leaving Pentecostal churches are lauded as though they have made a breakthrough. If I knew how to do a poll I would ask do they go to a Pentecostal church?

Very true Elder

Doesn't the bible say something about despisers of those that do good.

Nahum
06-13-2007, 09:03 AM
You are not wrong on this one friend. There is a group of about 20-25 AFF posters who are totally anti-Pentecostal. They will defend all sorts of whack jobs who preach fluff and cotton candy but condemn those who hold to the roots of Pentecostalism.

We have 20 doing cartwheels lately it seems.

Maybe we could get some head nods from those dressed in black.

Hey, me and BOOM agree! :poloroid Take a picture to capture this moment!

ILG
06-13-2007, 09:05 AM
Very true Elder

Doesn't the bible say something about despisers of those that do good.

Cons sometimes despise libs too.

Consapostolic1
06-13-2007, 09:05 AM
Looks that way to me more and more. Some very bitter folks on this forum Lois would love to have y'all. :poloroid

Bro. Epley it sometimes appears that way to me especially when people make comments referring to being liberated as letting go of standards of holiness.

Nahum
06-13-2007, 09:06 AM
PP we fuss about nearly everything and enjoy the fussing but I in no way say you are not Pentecostal. CC1 & Pianoman neither believe in the necessity of water and Spirit but clearly believe the Oneness message and baptism in Jesus Name being the only correct way to baptize. However some think Pentecost is a pile of dung it seems and it is getting a little old.


I'm with ya Bro.

The bolded part is very true. There has been a smug superiority present of late from some who have backslidden. I can't imagine bragging about it on a Pentecostal forum?

Subdued
06-13-2007, 09:06 AM
Bro. Epley it sometimes appears that way to me especially when people make comments referring to being liberated as letting go of standards of holiness.

What are the "standards of holiness?"

BoredOutOfMyMind
06-13-2007, 09:07 AM
Thank you.

I believe in the infilling of the HG so I guess you can label me Pentecostal But I'd rather be called just a member of the body of Christ or a Christian.

I am not afraid to be called Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal myself.

Malvaro
06-13-2007, 09:07 AM
Is this becoming and EX-Pentecostal site?

Looks that way to me more and more. Some very bitter folks on this forum Lois would love to have y'all. :poloroid

There are behind-the-scene discussions currently addressing this very concern/question....
although I am not one of the owners, rest assured.... AFF isn't going to turn into a ex-Pentecostal site....

Glenda B
06-13-2007, 09:08 AM
I spend very little time of this forum, and read and post very little, but you can feel the hostility from the X UPC'rs, and it is intense.

I still say as I posted previously, that they are attempting to convince others, and those who may be new in their faith, that things some of our pastors teach in not Bibical. It is not right, and I think they will be held accountable for this.

BoredOutOfMyMind
06-13-2007, 09:08 AM
I'm with ya Bro.

The bolded part is very true. There has been a smug superiority present of late from some who have backslidden. I can't imagine bragging about it on a Pentecostal forum?

Ahem, you dropped a quarter during the cartwheel you took.

Malvaro
06-13-2007, 09:09 AM
I'm with ya Bro.

The bolded part is very true. There has been a smug superiority present of late from some who have backslidden. I can't imagine bragging about it on a Pentecostal forum?

Most that do that are just wanting a response, perhaps to justify the very decision they've made....

Coonskinner
06-13-2007, 09:10 AM
I am no crusader, and don't ever intend to be one, but the shifting balance that this thread addresses has made this place less appealing to me lately.

Nahum
06-13-2007, 09:10 AM
Ahem, you dropped a quarter during the cartwheel you took.

Ouch! Who me?

Whole Hearted
06-13-2007, 09:10 AM
Cons sometimes despise libs too.

I don't think they are despised.

I have a cousin whom I love very much. He is a Baptist preacher. I believe him to be lost and in false doctrine but I kn no way despise him.

Felicity
06-13-2007, 09:11 AM
I've said before and I'll say again I have no interest being on a forum that doesn't have a strong conservative element.

Sheltiedad
06-13-2007, 09:11 AM
I spend very little time of this forum, and read and post very little, but you can feel the hostility from the X UPC'rs, and it is intense.

I still say as I posted previously, that they are attempting to convince others, and those who may be new in their faith, that things some of our pastors teach in not Bibical. It is not right, and I think they will be held accountable for this.

I have been enjoying my interaction here but I will leave, no questions asked if I'm told by admin that I'm not welcome... and I won't go off and cry about it. (not sure if I am one of the subjects of discussion or not since I only have about 300 posts or so).

I'm not afraid of being held accountable by men or by God for anything that I have said...

Consapostolic1
06-13-2007, 09:11 AM
Cons sometimes despise libs too.

Some cons might, but you don't see us attacking libs for every liberal idea that they post on this forum.

SDG
06-13-2007, 09:12 AM
I say we actively recruit some discontented Calfers ... I mean CAFers

Malvaro
06-13-2007, 09:14 AM
I am no crusader, and don't ever intend to be one, but the shifting balance that this thread addresses has made this place less appealing to me lately.

that being said, it will most likely become "more appealing" to you if AFF sways to more conservative slants for awhile.... the same could be said for others.... it's just common sense....

Nahum
06-13-2007, 09:14 AM
Where do we strike a balance?

For the most part, our conversations are very, very civil - even when we disagree with each other. I don't know how we can make the board more conservative.

One thing I notice is that our more conservative posters don't start very many threads.

ILG
06-13-2007, 09:14 AM
I don't think they are despised.

I have a cousin whom I love very much. He is a Baptist preacher. I believe him to be lost and in false doctrine but I kn no way despise him.

Many libs don't despise cons either.

Steve Epley
06-13-2007, 09:14 AM
Bro. Epley it sometimes appears that way to me especially when people make comments referring to being liberated as letting go of standards of holiness.

NOPE I am NOT speaking of standards. There are posters on here who do not believe in outward standards period but still consider themselves Pentecostal they believe in the Oneness of God and baptism in Jesus Name maybe not to the degree I do but are proud to be Pentecostal. They might not agree with their roots but they do not hate and dispise them. We fuss issues. But this blatant hostility toward Pentecost in general gets a little old. I do not post on any ANTI-Pentecostal site to the best of my knowledge I have visited 2.
Have no desire to go back. Among standard keepers we fuss among ourselves so I am not speaking of standards or being an ulra-con but about acutally being ANTI-Pentecostal.

ILG
06-13-2007, 09:16 AM
Some cons might, but you don't see us attacking libs for every liberal idea that they post on this forum.

That's really not true. You've obviously never posted from the lib side.

Anyway....I like the conservative element here. In many ways, I am conservative at heart even though I don't keep standards and am somewhat of a "doctrinal renegade" as I'm sure it would be viewed by some.

Coonskinner
06-13-2007, 09:16 AM
that being said, it will most likely become "more appealing" to you if AFF sways to more conservative slants for awhile.... the same could be said for others.... it's just common sense....


Exactly.

I hope I didn't sound like I was complaining.

Everything in life ebbs and flows, Mal.

I have never thought AFF existed just so it could be tailor-made to suit me.:)

It is what it is. Most things change over time.

Ronzo
06-13-2007, 09:16 AM
Some cons might, but you don't see us attacking libs for every liberal idea that they post on this forum.
Um... sure.

CC1
06-13-2007, 09:19 AM
NOPE I am NOT speaking of standards. There are posters on here who do not believe in outward standards period but still consider themselves Pentecostal they believe in the Oneness of God and baptism in Jesus Name maybe not to the degree I do but are proud to be Pentecostal. They might not agree with their roots but they do not hate and dispise them. We fuss issues. But this blatant hostility toward Pentecost in general gets a little old. I do not post on any ANTI-Pentecostal site to the best of my knowledge I have visited 2.
Have no desire to go back. Among standard keepers we fuss among ourselves so I am not speaking of standards or being an ulra-con but about acutally being ANTI-Pentecostal.

I agree 100%. I wish there was more of a balance here.

However the conservatives and ultra cons could fix that balance immediately by posting more!!!

I don't see those great "gang ups" of four or five or six cons and ultra cons amening each other with posts like I used to. With each one that stays away the board becomes more unbalanced.

SE, you need to get Old Paths, Bishop1, Acteon, Steadfast, and at least a half dozen others that come to mind to start posting their fair share again!

nathan_slatter
06-13-2007, 09:19 AM
:bigbaby:sad:depressed:tissue

Nahum
06-13-2007, 09:21 AM
Can I say it?

There have been some things posted that I personally feel have no place being discussed in open forum in mixed company. I'm sure that drives some of our more conservative posters away.

Whole Hearted
06-13-2007, 09:22 AM
I spend very little time of this forum, and read and post very little, but you can feel the hostility from the X UPC'rs, and it is intense.

I still say as I posted previously, that they are attempting to convince others, and those who may be new in their faith, that things some of our pastors teach in not Bibical. It is not right, and I think they will be held accountable for this.

:hanky

SDG
06-13-2007, 09:23 AM
:bigbaby:sad:depressed:tissue

Don't cry Nate ... dry your eye ... this type of session is typical ... when Elder Epley and other UCs realize they don't monopolize truth ... this type of thread is common ... let's see if I can dig up some old ones.

Consapostolic1
06-13-2007, 09:24 AM
NOPE I am NOT speaking of standards. There are posters on here who do not believe in outward standards period but still consider themselves Pentecostal they believe in the Oneness of God and baptism in Jesus Name maybe not to the degree I do but are proud to be Pentecostal. They might not agree with their roots but they do not hate and dispise them. We fuss issues. But this blatant hostility toward Pentecost in general gets a little old. I do not post on any ANTI-Pentecostal site to the best of my knowledge I have visited 2.
Have no desire to go back. Among standard keepers we fuss among ourselves so I am not speaking of standards or being an ulra-con but about acutally being ANTI-Pentecostal.

Bro. thanks for clarifying that for me.

Digging4Truth
06-13-2007, 09:25 AM
Didn't we have some great individuals ushered into our presence that were "finally" supposed to pick up the whole intellectual atmosphere of the forum?

What ever happened to all that?

Felicity
06-13-2007, 09:25 AM
I agree 100%. I wish there was more of a balance here.

However the conservatives and ultra cons could fix that balance immediately by posting more!!!

I don't see those great "gang ups" of four or five or six cons and ultra cons amening each other with posts like I used to. With each one that stays away the board becomes more unbalanced.

SE, you need to get Old Paths, Bishop1, Acteon, Steadfast, and at least a half dozen others that come to mind to start posting their fair share again!I don't think people are all that interested at this point in expending the kind of energy needed to provide the kind of healthy tension that makes discussion forums like this really 'go'.

Perhaps the fact that we've argued and debated for a long time all the way from FCF to this forum with basically the same core group of people involved and are just burnt out a bit on it is an important one.

SDG
06-13-2007, 09:26 AM
"Maybe it's time to move on" is one of these type threads...

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=1629&highlight=leave

Pragmatist
06-13-2007, 09:26 AM
NOPE I am NOT speaking of standards. There are posters on here who do not believe in outward standards period but still consider themselves Pentecostal they believe in the Oneness of God and baptism in Jesus Name maybe not to the degree I do but are proud to be Pentecostal. They might not agree with their roots but they do not hate and dispise them. We fuss issues. But this blatant hostility toward Pentecost in general gets a little old. I do not post on any ANTI-Pentecostal site to the best of my knowledge I have visited 2.
Have no desire to go back. Among standard keepers we fuss among ourselves so I am not speaking of standards or being an ulra-con but about acutally being ANTI-Pentecostal.

I'm a non-follower of standards but want to go to a church where they teach the overcoming power of the Holy Ghost is necessary for all believers.

Digging4Truth
06-13-2007, 09:27 AM
I think the forum is doing very well.

Some may feel that it is running under par but I will take our current under par if that is the result of dropping the added drama that used to be around.

Sandra
06-13-2007, 09:29 AM
Looks that way to me more and more. Some very bitter folks on this forum Lois would love to have y'all. :poloroid

I think there is a good mix here.

Sandra
06-13-2007, 09:29 AM
Most of the "owners" are UPC licensed ministers, aren't they?

I highly doubt they'd 'allow' this place to become an 'ex-pentecostal' site.

good point.

SDG
06-13-2007, 09:32 AM
Here is another of these type threads ... initiated by the King of Bi-Polar Thread starters ....

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=1571&highlight=apostolic

Nahum
06-13-2007, 09:37 AM
Here is another of these type threads ... initiated by the King of Bi-Polar Thread starters ....

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=1571&highlight=apostolic

Here's the post Daniel is insulting me over.

"Why do people continue to be a part of something they hate? Isn't this level of self-loathing unhealthy and harmful to the groups they are a part of? It really slays me that people identify themselves as Apostolic Pentecostals and then rip and shred the church or organization they are a part of to bits.

I can understand that we all have some level of differences of opinion.
That's cool.

But when your complaints elevate to an incessant whine regarding everything in your church and organization - what's the point? Why not just leave?

Lately AFF has turned into one big "I hate my heritage" concert. It's getting very old, very fast. People ripping on their pastors, their bylaws, their parents beliefs, their church's standards, their church's lack of standards.

Then we have the whole "I should get paid to sing in the choir" crowd. Ridiculous! Add to that the assertion that if you give LITERALLY one penny in a church's offering you are automatically a legal member and can sue the church to get your way about anything. INSANE!!!!!!!!

Is there a motive behind all this whining? Is there a move to reduce the authority of the ministry to rubble? Is there an "I will ascend" spirit involved in all of this moaning and groaning?

I think we all know the answer............... The answer is yes!!!!!!!!
A thousand times yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It seems very few want to FOLLOW Jesus and his ministers anywhere. Instead, they want a Jesus, and a pastor, and a church, that will cowtow to every little self-willed whim that catches their fancy.

What the church needs is a revival of sacrifice. We are lazy, and fat, and drunk, on the pleasures of this world. You need to quit trying to push your agenda, railroading your pastor, and bartering with God.

How about a spirit of meekness and service instead? Would God that someone would FOR ONCE IN THEIR MISERABLE LIVES try their best to support their pastor and his family instead of bashing their heads up against the wall every time they do something you disagree with."

Does that make you feel better Daniel?

Nahum
06-13-2007, 09:39 AM
Btw, I consider that one of my best posts ever.

Maybe the truth of it offends Dan?

nathan_slatter
06-13-2007, 09:40 AM
You know, PP, I completely agree with that post. I recently wrote an essay entitled "Should I Stay or Should I Go Now" that discusses why I left.

SDG
06-13-2007, 09:41 AM
Btw, I consider that one of my best posts ever.

Maybe the truth of it offends Dan?

No ... I'm simply echoing the thought that this type of feeling and sentiment is cyclical here at AFF... there are times the libs think the forum has gone ULTRA CON ... and times the ultracons think this is a GREASY GRACER forum ...

as for you ... you swing like a pendulum ... you have some of the most liberal and conservative threads ... here ... you are a manic-depressive Apostolic.

Nahum
06-13-2007, 09:44 AM
You know, PP, I completely agree with that post. I recently wrote an essay entitled "Should I Stay or Should I Go Now" that discusses why I left.

Thank you. The point is that I don't understand why people are part of something they absolutely loathe. Why claim the title "Apostolic" when you hate all it has traditionally represented.

Epley has made a great point with this thread.

It's not about standards.

Steve Epley
06-13-2007, 09:46 AM
Here's the post Daniel is insulting me over.

"Why do people continue to be a part of something they hate? Isn't this level of self-loathing unhealthy and harmful to the groups they are a part of? It really slays me that people identify themselves as Apostolic Pentecostals and then rip and shred the church or organization they are a part of to bits.

I can understand that we all have some level of differences of opinion.
That's cool.

But when your complaints elevate to an incessant whine regarding everything in your church and organization - what's the point? Why not just leave?

Lately AFF has turned into one big "I hate my heritage" concert. It's getting very old, very fast. People ripping on their pastors, their bylaws, their parents beliefs, their church's standards, their church's lack of standards.

Then we have the whole "I should get paid to sing in the choir" crowd. Ridiculous! Add to that the assertion that if you give LITERALLY one penny in a church's offering you are automatically a legal member and can sue the church to get your way about anything. INSANE!!!!!!!!

Is there a motive behind all this whining? Is there a move to reduce the authority of the ministry to rubble? Is there an "I will ascend" spirit involved in all of this moaning and groaning?

I think we all know the answer............... The answer is yes!!!!!!!!
A thousand times yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It seems very few want to FOLLOW Jesus and his ministers anywhere. Instead, they want a Jesus, and a pastor, and a church, that will cowtow to every little self-willed whim that catches their fancy.

What the church needs is a revival of sacrifice. We are lazy, and fat, and drunk, on the pleasures of this world. You need to quit trying to push your agenda, railroading your pastor, and bartering with God.

How about a spirit of meekness and service instead? Would God that someone would FOR ONCE IN THEIR MISERABLE LIVES try their best to support their pastor and his family instead of bashing their heads up against the wall every time they do something you disagree with."

Does that make you feel better Daniel?

What a post!!!!!!!!!!!

Nahum
06-13-2007, 09:46 AM
No ... I'm simply echoing the thought that this type of feeling and sentiment is cyclical here at AFF... there are times the libs think the forum has gone ULTRA CON ... and times the ultracons think this is a GREASY GRACER forum ...

as for you ... you swing like a pendulum ... you have some of the most liberal and conservative threads ... here ... you are a manic-depressive Apostolic.

LOL, manic-depressive?

That would hurt if I actually respected you or your opinions in any way. You have zero credibility with this issue.

SDG
06-13-2007, 09:48 AM
Thank you. The point is that I don't understand why people are part of something they absolutely loathe. Why claim the title "Apostolic" when you hate all it has traditionally represented.

Epley has made a great point with this thread.

It's not about standards.

THIS COMING FROM THE GUY WHO OPENLY ADMITTED HE DOES NOT LIKE THE TERM APOSTOIC BUT PREFERS TO BE CALLED A PENTECOSTAL ...

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=4354&highlight=PREFER+PENTECOSTAL

Ronzo
06-13-2007, 09:49 AM
Thank you. The point is that I don't understand why people are part of something they absolutely loathe. Why claim the title "Apostolic" when uyou hate all it has traditionally represented.

Epley has made a great point with this thread.

It's not about standards.

I don't call myself apostolic anymore.

Haven't for a long time.

Not that I 'hate all it has traditionally represented', I just don't consider myself 'apostolic'.

Nahum
06-13-2007, 09:50 AM
THIS COMING FROM THE GUY WHO OPENLY ADMITTED HE DOES NOT LIKE THE TERM APOSTOIC BUT PREFERS TO BE CALLED A PENTECOSTAL ...

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=4354&highlight=PREFER+PENTECOSTAL

And your point is?

Daniel, are you an Ex-Pentecostal?

nathan_slatter
06-13-2007, 09:51 AM
I don't call myself apostolic anymore.

Haven't for a long time.

Not that I 'hate all it has traditionally represented', I just don't consider myself 'apostolic'.

Yeah -- as do i... as don't I... or however it should be said... :D

In the end, I'm not going to be bound by labels and theologies that could very well cause me to miss the truth of God... I barely hold to the label Christian...

SDG
06-13-2007, 09:52 AM
LOL, manic-depressive?

That would hurt if I actually respected you or your opinions in any way. You have zero credibility with this issue.

No .. I'm consistent ...

I really love your leftist threads though ...

Spiritual Abortion thread ....

I am so sick and tired of the bonds of legalism that a small minority within our movement want to place us in. This minority is affecting many things within the Apostolic culture. There is a dawning realization in me that rules can never replace relationship. Real morality is placed deep within the heart of a man who is in love with Jesus. No rule can ever take the place of that intimacy.

The spirit of abortion is in hundreds of legalistic position papers we have been formulating for decades. It is found in the heavy-handedness of supposed elders, who rebuke the cognitive process in the young as rebellious, and by default, wicked. It is found in every sermon that focuses on works of man more than the Work of God's grace.

The spirit of abortion is alive and well in many churches today. We rely on persona and tradition more than a sovereign move of the Holy Ghost. There are far too few prayer meetings nowadays. Instead, we run after every self-proclaimed Apostolic guru that lands on a conference stage.

I'm tired of politics. I'm tired of self-promotion. I'm tired of a complete lack of integrity in high levels of leadership.

This spirit is killing real revival.

and the

Replacing Jesus thread

"...MARK THEM which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which we have learned: and AVOID THEM. For they that are such serve NOT our Lord Jesus Christ but their own belly; and BY GOOD WORDS AND FAIR SPEECHES DECEIVE THE HEARTS OF THE SIMPLE!" Romans 16:17,18 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Romans+16%3A17)

JESUS SAID TO HIM, "I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE. NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME." John 14:6 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=John+14%3A6)

Has "holiness" replaced Jesus as the object of affection in the Apostolic church?

Has a list of rules become the way to salvation instead of the one and only Savior of the world?

Are men teaching God's children to obey them and the rules and ignore the voice of Jesus in their hearts?


Have we replaced Jesus? Do we even need Him any longer?

Sheltiedad
06-13-2007, 09:54 AM
Thank you. The point is that I don't understand why people are part of something they absolutely loathe. Why claim the title "Apostolic" when you hate all it has traditionally represented.

Epley has made a great point with this thread.

It's not about standards.

I can answer for myself if it helps... I was born in it... I was raised in it... I no longer believe a lot of it but it is still how I think because I spent the first 20 years of my life in it... I have family in it and friends in it and as long as that is the case, I will still think about it and want to talk about it.

Just because I don't work at Wal-Mart anymore doesn't mean I can't get together with old friends and talk about things that happened while we were working together... and point out blatant flaws and mistakes to others who have also noticed them.

Maybe some of us shouldn't be allowed to have an opinion on things once we have left... but the only way to enforce that is to say that we are not welcome.

There's no point in posting somewhere where no one likes you, but some of us have been encouraged to post more, repeatedly... and that is the only reason we have...

SDG
06-13-2007, 09:54 AM
PP ... your body of work speaks for itself ... either you are:

a. A pragmatist
b. A flip-flopper
c. An instigator

Pragmatist
06-13-2007, 09:54 AM
No .. I'm consistent ...

I really love your leftist threads though ...



Why is it a problem for PP to have conservative and lib threads?

Maybe he's just seeking after God?

StillStanding
06-13-2007, 09:55 AM
Bro. Epley, as you know, I was raised in a very strict Apostolic home. The Apostolic Pentecostal Acts 2:38 message and beliefs are part of my DNA! There are some things (baptism in Jesus name; holy ghost baptism, etc.) that I can't dismiss no matter how hard I try.

I hope I don't come accross as mocking my heritage, because I respect and admire the UPC and other conservative Apostolics.

rgcraig
06-13-2007, 09:55 AM
Here's a novel thought.......stop arguing about the things you know you won't ever change your mind on and perhaps the encouraging, inspiring, thought challenging threads might make a come back.

nathan_slatter
06-13-2007, 09:55 AM
I can answer for myself if it helps... I was born in it... I was raised in it... I no longer believe a lot of it but it is still how I think because I spent the first 20 years of my life in it... I have family in it and friends in it and as long as that is the case, I will still think about it and want to talk about it.

Just because I don't work at Wal-Mart anymore doesn't mean I can't get together with old friends and talk about things that happened while we were working together... and point out blatant flaws and mistakes to others who have also noticed them.

Maybe some of us shouldn't be allowed to have an opinion on things once we have left... but the only way to enforce that is to say that we are not welcome.

There's no point in posting somewhere where no one likes you, but some of us have been encouraged to post more, repeatedly... and that is the only reason we have...

I like you.... :D

Digging4Truth
06-13-2007, 09:55 AM
PP ... your body of work speaks for itself ... either you are:

a. A pragmatist
b. A flip-flopper
c. An instigator

Dude... you need to just let up with your judgements.

Nahum
06-13-2007, 09:56 AM
No .. I'm consistent ...

I really love your leftist threads though ...

Spiritual Abortion thread ....



and the

Replacing Jesus thread

I see you are fixated with my greatest posts. How are these posts inconsistent? I am a very solid moderate. So what?

Are you jealous or something?

BTW, this thread is Epley's - not mine. Does it bother you that I am logical enough to agree with truth regardless of the source? Epley is right Dan.

Digging4Truth
06-13-2007, 09:56 AM
Why is it a problem for PP to have conservative and lib threads?

Maybe he's just seeking after God?

True...

Or maybe the truth doesn't fit in the nice tidy packages many would want them to.

Maybe he is finding some truth on both sides of the discussion.

Pragmatist
06-13-2007, 09:58 AM
PP ... your body of work speaks for itself ... either you are:

a. A pragmatist
b. A flip-flopper
c. An instigator


a is the answer for me :lol

preach59
06-13-2007, 09:58 AM
I do not post here very often either, but I definitely agree with Elder Epley here and others who are seeing the trend away from the Apostolic Pentecostal Message as God's Plan for Salvation.

It is very obvious that there is great animosity and bitterness shoveled in the direction of those here who stand for any type of separation message. They are belittled and mocked regularly here. And as already has been stated, those who declare they are leaving this message are lauded as heroes. "Doctrines" are debated and argued for which may very well be false doctrines, which when they are debated and discussed in depth, and Scripture is thrown around seeking to prove some things which are way out of the mainstream, the minds of some who may be "weak" are opened to some things which could lead to eternal destruction.

The name of this Forum is becoming misleading. Is it really a forum for Apostolic friends? It doesn't seem that is the case.

Ronzo
06-13-2007, 09:59 AM
Here's a novel thought.......stop arguing about the things you know you won't ever change your mind on and perhaps the encouraging, inspiring, thought challenging threads might make a come back.
What fun is there in being encouraging?

Pfft...

You don't get to cry about how you don't get your way when you're encouraging someone else.

nathan_slatter
06-13-2007, 09:59 AM
Here's another thought... if I have truly moved on -- whatever I disagree with that is resident in that place that I have moved on from becomes a non-issue. If it is still an issue -- then I haven't really moved on. It still has "control" over me. Perhaps the fact that many of us are here arguing about "apostolic" is portraying that we aren't truly ex anything -- it still controls us and is resident within our beings.

Steve Epley
06-13-2007, 10:00 AM
Why is everything always con verses lib and standards verse non-standards?
This thread is NOT about that. There are folks I consider libs on this forum that love their heritage and Pentecost in general. They attend meetings that of their wing. But this I hate Pentecost is a little old.

Dan I did post that thread and that is where I am now. I have made friends here that I agree with very little. But they do not mock folks going down in Jesus Name and preaching the Mighty God in Christ. They are not elated when some troubled or confused person is leaving Pentecost. Pentecost is not perfect either wing they are made up of humans both groups have their share of scandles and failures and each have their bozos (and I may be one). But we love Pentecost with all it's failures and disappointments. It is better when we are better. Leaving an organization or particular fellowship circle or even local church is NOT the discussion. The rabid hostile outright hatred for what birthed me and has nourished me is tiring.

Issues lets fight and scrap and push the envelope. I post on a conservative forum and enjoy it but this chemistry since the FCF days has been fun and an escape for me I enjoy it and do not take it from my desk with me. I am not advocating a more conservative forum I already have that. I like this forum without the ANTI-Pentecostal bias that has become a steady drone. Forgive me for my rambling.

rgcraig
06-13-2007, 10:00 AM
Here's another thought... if I have truly moved on -- whatever I disagree with that is resident in that place that I have moved on from becomes a non-issue. If it is still an issue -- then I haven't really moved on. It still has "control" over me. Perhaps the fact that many of us are here arguing about "apostolic" is portraying that we aren't truly ex anything -- it still controls us and is resident within our beings.

Excellent point!

nathan_slatter
06-13-2007, 10:00 AM
Or maybe the truth doesn't fit in the nice tidy packages many would want them to.


Now, that's a mouth full, right there.

Nahum
06-13-2007, 10:01 AM
I guess I don't understand the attacks from a poster who says he is my friend. I have mentioned no names on any of the threads he has used in the hopes of slandering me. I posted regarding ideals, and I stand by each of those posts. I am bragging, but the content is pretty good.

I am a moderate, big whoop.

nathan_slatter
06-13-2007, 10:01 AM
Excellent point!

*patting self on back*

See -- I can drop the comedian act and make sense occasionally... :D

rgcraig
06-13-2007, 10:04 AM
Don't look now, but the sky IS NOT falling down.

SDG
06-13-2007, 10:05 AM
I guess I don't understand the attacks from a poster who says he is my friend. I have mentioned no names on any of the threads he has used in the hopes of slandering me. I posted regarding ideals, and I stand by each of those posts. I am bragging, but the content is pretty good.

I am a moderate, big whoop.

I love you dude!!!

nathan_slatter
06-13-2007, 10:05 AM
Don't look now, but the sky IS NOT falling down.

THERE'S A SKY?!?!?!?!

rgcraig
06-13-2007, 10:05 AM
THERE'S A SKY?!?!?!?!

Yes, and it's green!

nathan_slatter
06-13-2007, 10:07 AM
Yes, and it's green!

EXCELLENT... :D

Speaking of -- what if we labeled a color wrong? What if blue is actually green? What if C - A - T spelled dog?

Felicity
06-13-2007, 10:08 AM
Here's another thought... if I have truly moved on -- whatever I disagree with that is resident in that place that I have moved on from becomes a non-issue. If it is still an issue -- then I haven't really moved on. It still has "control" over me. Perhaps the fact that many of us are here arguing about "apostolic" is portraying that we aren't truly ex anything -- it still controls us and is resident within our beings. I think you've just made a great point. :)

Steve Epley
06-13-2007, 10:08 AM
I guess I don't understand the attacks from a poster who says he is my friend. I have mentioned no names on any of the threads he has used in the hopes of slandering me. I posted regarding ideals, and I stand by each of those posts. I am bragging, but the content is pretty good.

I am a moderate, big whoop.

You have never pretended to be a con we have fussed til the cows come home on nearly every issue. But you do NOT hate Pentecost what is hard to understand about that?

rgcraig
06-13-2007, 10:08 AM
EXCELLENT... :D

Speaking of -- what if we labeled a color wrong? What if blue is actually green? What if C - A - T spelled dog?

That silly Adam.....can't trust anyone, can we?

nathan_slatter
06-13-2007, 10:09 AM
I think you've just made a great point. :)

Thanks...

nathan_slatter
06-13-2007, 10:10 AM
That silly Adam.....can't trust anyone, can we?

You too? We should start a club... the DTA club... should I run for the president postion? :D

SDG
06-13-2007, 10:10 AM
You have never pretended to be a con we have fussed til the cows come home on nearly every issue. But you do NOT hate Pentecost what is hard to understand about that?

and that's the point ... isn't it ??... no one has stated they hate Pentecost ... they may not agree with the UC mentality of what a Pentecostal is ... but simply because they don't hold your ideals or PP's does not mean you are hated ....

Digging4Truth
06-13-2007, 10:12 AM
You too? We should start a club... the DTA club... should I run for the president postion? :D

Ron Paul For President. :)

Nahum
06-13-2007, 10:12 AM
You have never pretended to be a con we have fussed til the cows come home on nearly every issue. But you do NOT hate Pentecost what is hard to understand about that?


Elder, I was talking about Daniel's attacks toward me.

nathan_slatter
06-13-2007, 10:13 AM
Ron Paul For President. :)

*the heavens open up and the sound of an angelic choir rests in the ears of the members of this forum*

AMEN - AH

Old Paths
06-13-2007, 10:14 AM
Well I will confess........ I HATE the debil!



:D

rgcraig
06-13-2007, 10:18 AM
Well I will confess........ I HATE the debil!



:D

I hate to even give him the attention of saying it, but YEP!

He's working overtime to get like-minded people to fuss and fight over stupid things.

Old Paths
06-13-2007, 10:25 AM
I hate to even give him the attention of saying it, but YEP!

He's working overtime to get like-minded people to fuss and fight over stupid things.



I have learned that one person's "stupid things" is another person's convictions.

rgcraig
06-13-2007, 10:26 AM
I have learned that one person's "stupid things" is another person's convictions.

You know what I mean - the fussing was what I was addressing.

Old Paths
06-13-2007, 10:27 AM
You know what I mean - the fussing was what I was addressing.



No I didn't know what you meant, but thanks for clarifying.

Digging4Truth
06-13-2007, 10:28 AM
I have learned that one person's "stupid things" is another person's convictions.

And that holds true for both sides of the fence.

nathan_slatter
06-13-2007, 10:28 AM
And that holds true for both sides of the fence.

THERE'S A FENCE?!?!?!?!

Ronzo
06-13-2007, 10:29 AM
THERE'S A FENCE?!?!?!?!
It's what you're sittin' on, tofu-eater.

Digging4Truth
06-13-2007, 10:30 AM
THERE'S A FENCE?!?!?!?!

Well... that explains those scars doesn't it. :)

nathan_slatter
06-13-2007, 10:30 AM
It's what you're sittin' on, tofu-eater.

ROFLOL.... I'm so fat -- it's actually comfortable... :D

Fascist!

Ronzo
06-13-2007, 10:31 AM
ROFLOL.... I'm so fat -- it's actually comfortable... :D

Fascist!

Daisy picker.

nathan_slatter
06-13-2007, 10:31 AM
Well... that explains those scars doesn't it. :)

*grin* not really -- those are caused by humanity...

Digging4Truth
06-13-2007, 10:32 AM
*grin* not really -- those are caused by humanity...

Now see... you had to go and get all serious on me. :)

Republican!!!! :)

nathan_slatter
06-13-2007, 10:35 AM
Now see... you had to go and get all serious on me. :)

Republican!!!! :)

ROFLOL.... Sorry... That's Republican SIR -- and I'll only be a republican if I can vote for Ron Paul -- other wise I'm a libertarian... :D

Timmy
06-13-2007, 10:36 AM
Maybe some of us shouldn't be allowed to have an opinion on things once we have left... but the only way to enforce that is to say that we are not welcome.

There's no point in posting somewhere where no one likes you, but some of us have been encouraged to post more, repeatedly... and that is the only reason we have...

Maybe the rules should be modified so that we of other faiths are allowed only to ask questions. Not answer their questions, and not give a response as to whether we accept their answers (when we get answers!).

Or yeah. Just uninvite us altogether.

rgcraig
06-13-2007, 10:38 AM
Maybe the rules should be modified so that we of other faiths are allowed only to ask questions. Not answer their questions, and not give a response as to whether we accept their answers (when we get answers!).

Or yeah. Just uninvite us altogether.

Or not. This is not just a UPC forum.

Timmy
06-13-2007, 10:44 AM
Or not. This is not just a UPC forum.

Yeah, but I was talking about us non-Apostolics!

Digging4Truth
06-13-2007, 10:52 AM
I think many times people are used to living in a little apostolic bubble where there isn't a large amount of meaningful interaction with those who are not a part of their circle of fellowship.

When people are so audacious as to ask questions or have answers that don't fall in those lines then they quickly find themselves feeling surrounded.

Not from a standpoint of being overwhelmed & bewildered but from a standpoint of feeling an inequity in the population.

What this reflects, to them, is that things are way off kilter.

I think that most apostolics (not all) rarely discuss doctrine outside of their circle of fellowship and are not accustomed to hearing dissenting voices other than the issues one of the saints may have.

I think that most are comfortable with their beliefs being questioned. The part I don't think many are used to is when their answers are questioned.

When one largely does not discuss doctrine on any regular basis without many people outside their circle of fellowship then, while they may have questions come their way, the answers given are accepted. To have ones answers questioned seems to be a big point of contention.

originalsecretplace
06-13-2007, 10:54 AM
I am not afraid to be called Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal myself.

lol

To me it's no a matter of being afraid to be called anything. The problem stems from the plethora of definitions of Pentecostal, etc. What pentecostal means to one means something else to another.

A Christian -- a follower of Christ -- seems to me to simple yet to the point. And it's actually used in the Bible.

nathan_slatter
06-13-2007, 10:54 AM
I think many times people are used to living in a little apostolic bubble where there isn't a large amount of meaningful interaction with those who are not a part of their circle of fellowship.

When people are so audacious as to ask questions or have answers that don't fall in those lines then they quickly find themselves feeling surrounded.

Not from a standpoint of being overwhelmed & bewildered but from a standpoint of feeling an inequity in the population.

What this reflects, to them, is that things are way off kilter.

I think that most apostolics (not all) rarely discuss doctrine outside of their circle of fellowship and are not accustomed to hearing dissenting voices other than the issues one of the saints may have.

I think that most are comfortable with their beliefs being questioned. The part I don't think many are used to is when their answers are questioned.

When one largely does not discuss doctrine on any regular basis without many people outside their circle of fellowship then, while they may have questions come their way, the answers given are accepted. To have ones answers questioned seems to be a big point of contention.

Good point... I usually come to the conclusions that I have no answers... only different questions...

Ronzo
06-13-2007, 10:56 AM
I am not afraid to be called Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal myself.
Has nothing to do with being "afraid" of anything bro.

nathan_slatter
06-13-2007, 10:57 AM
A Christian -- a follower of Christ -- seems to me to simple yet to the point. And it's actually used in the Bible.

*grin* then there is the questioning of what a "follower of Christ" is... people aren't accustomed to such a simple idea and, therefore, push complexities upon the phrase.... not to be contentious or anything... I agree with you wholeheartedly... :D

Digging4Truth
06-13-2007, 10:58 AM
Good point... I usually come to the conclusions that I have no answers... only different questions...

Yes sir... I used to think I had all the answers...

Now I'm convinced that I don't even know all the questions.

originalsecretplace
06-13-2007, 11:02 AM
*grin* then there is the questioning of what a "follower of Christ" is... people aren't accustomed to such a simple idea and, therefore, push complexities upon the phrase.... not to be contentious or anything... I agree with you wholeheartedly... :D

*sigh* yeah I know. It's all so complicated... or is it? :)

If anyone asks, I tell them I use it in the same context as scripture.

Buawahahahahaha .....

nathan_slatter
06-13-2007, 11:02 AM
*sigh* yeah I know. It's all so complicated... or is it? :)

If anyone asks, I tell them I use it in the same context as scripture.

Buawahahahahaha .....

No -- it's not complicated... or I don't think it is... :D

MissBrattified
06-13-2007, 11:06 AM
AFF has a nice balance of views. When you have members all in agreement, then there's no one to argue with. BOOOOORRRRRINGGGG!!!!!! :D

I haven't really noticed that many folks claiming to be ex-pentecostal...I think there may be a good number that are ex-UPC, but that isn't the same as ex-pent.

Railing against the UPCI can sometimes sound like you're anti-pentecostal, since the members of the UPCI are, (hopefully), pentecostal. I think for the complainers, its easy to blur the lines between the organization, and pentecostal culture, and complain about both, making it appear that you are not only opposed to the organization, but the people and their general views as well.

On the flip side, those reacting to the complaints can easily confuse legitimate opposition to the organization as opposition to the larger-than-UPCI pentecostal church, and that isn't always the case.

So I say...what seems like anti-pentecostal rhetoric, in many cases is anti-organizational rhetoric. I don't like it, but I understand it, and have the ability to be understanding, so long as it doesn't become vicious or stereotypical.

nathan_slatter
06-13-2007, 11:07 AM
AFF has a nice balance of views. When you have members all in agreement, then there's no one to argue with. BOOOOORRRRRINGGGG!!!!!! :D

I haven't really noticed that many folks claiming to be ex-pentecostal...I think there may be a good number that are ex-UPC, but that isn't the same as ex-pent.

Railing against the UPCI can sometimes sound like you're anti-pentecostal, since the members of the UPCI are, (hopefully), pentecostal. I think for the complainers, its easy to blur the lines between the organization, and pentecostal culture, and complain about both, making it appear that you are not only opposed to the organization, but the people and their general views as well.

On the flip side, those reacting to the complaints can easily confuse legitimate opposition to the organization as opposition to the larger-than-UPCI pentecostal church, and that isn't always the case.

So I say...what seems like anti-pentecostal rhetoric, in many cases is anti-organizational rhetoric. I don't like it, but I understand it, and have the ability to be understanding, so long as it doesn't become vicious or stereotypical.

Hey -- I like that fireman quote by Sis. Alvear...

SDG
06-13-2007, 11:08 AM
AFF has a nice balance of views. When you have members all in agreement, then there's no one to argue with. BOOOOORRRRRINGGGG!!!!!! :D

I haven't really noticed that many folks claiming to be ex-pentecostal...I think there may be a good number that are ex-UPC, but that isn't the same as ex-pent.

Railing against the UPCI can sometimes sound like you're anti-pentecostal, since the members of the UPCI are, (hopefully), pentecostal. I think for the complainers, its easy to blur the lines between the organization, and pentecostal culture, and complain about both, making it appear that you are not only opposed to the organization, but the people and their general views as well.

On the flip side, those reacting to the complaints can easily confuse legitimate opposition to the organization as opposition to the larger-than-UPCI pentecostal church, and that isn't always the case.

So I say...what seems like anti-pentecostal rhetoric, in many cases is anti-organizational rhetoric. I don't like it, but I understand it, and have the ability to be understanding, so long as it doesn't become vicious or stereotypical.

Annie, do you always make sense??

rgcraig
06-13-2007, 11:08 AM
AFF has a nice balance of views. When you have members all in agreement, then there's no one to argue with. BOOOOORRRRRINGGGG!!!!!! :D

I haven't really noticed that many folks claiming to be ex-pentecostal...I think there may be a good number that are ex-UPC, but that isn't the same as ex-pent.

Railing against the UPCI can sometimes sound like you're anti-pentecostal, since the members of the UPCI are, (hopefully), pentecostal. I think for the complainers, its easy to blur the lines between the organization, and pentecostal culture, and complain about both, making it appear that you are not only opposed to the organization, but the people and their general views as well.

On the flip side, those reacting to the complaints can easily confuse legitimate opposition to the organization as opposition to the larger-than-UPCI pentecostal church, and that isn't always the case.

So I say...what seems like anti-pentecostal rhetoric, in many cases is anti-organizational rhetoric. I don't like it, but I understand it, and have the ability to be understanding, so long as it doesn't become vicious or stereotypical.

Yep.

MissBrattified
06-13-2007, 11:08 AM
Hey -- I like that fireman quote by Sis. Alvear...


Nice, huh? She's one smart lady. :)

MissBrattified
06-13-2007, 11:12 AM
Annie, do you always make sense??

No. Sometimes (or often) I am a stark, raving mad lunatic with a short temper and propensity to forget where I left any given thing of importance, and the irritating tendency to ramble from one topic to another and walk off in a daze while someone is talking to me, because one word in their sentence reminded me of the purse I may have accidentally tucked into the pantry. :coffee2

I do have rather self-impressive moments of intelligent thought...which are all (well mostly) expended here, on this forum. :D That leaves my crazy side for my close friends and family. :haloplug

BrotherEastman
06-13-2007, 11:15 AM
Here's the post Daniel is insulting me over.

"Why do people continue to be a part of something they hate? Isn't this level of self-loathing unhealthy and harmful to the groups they are a part of? It really slays me that people identify themselves as Apostolic Pentecostals and then rip and shred the church or organization they are a part of to bits.

I can understand that we all have some level of differences of opinion.
That's cool.

But when your complaints elevate to an incessant whine regarding everything in your church and organization - what's the point? Why not just leave?

Lately AFF has turned into one big "I hate my heritage" concert. It's getting very old, very fast. People ripping on their pastors, their bylaws, their parents beliefs, their church's standards, their church's lack of standards.

Then we have the whole "I should get paid to sing in the choir" crowd. Ridiculous! Add to that the assertion that if you give LITERALLY one penny in a church's offering you are automatically a legal member and can sue the church to get your way about anything. INSANE!!!!!!!!

Is there a motive behind all this whining? Is there a move to reduce the authority of the ministry to rubble? Is there an "I will ascend" spirit involved in all of this moaning and groaning?

I think we all know the answer............... The answer is yes!!!!!!!!
A thousand times yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It seems very few want to FOLLOW Jesus and his ministers anywhere. Instead, they want a Jesus, and a pastor, and a church, that will cowtow to every little self-willed whim that catches their fancy.

What the church needs is a revival of sacrifice. We are lazy, and fat, and drunk, on the pleasures of this world. You need to quit trying to push your agenda, railroading your pastor, and bartering with God.

How about a spirit of meekness and service instead? Would God that someone would FOR ONCE IN THEIR MISERABLE LIVES try their best to support their pastor and his family instead of bashing their heads up against the wall every time they do something you disagree with."

Does that make you feel better Daniel?
This is probably one of the best posts I've seen on this thread PP, are you the one who really came up with it? LOL! No seriously, you've brought up a very good point, but I/m sure you'll get blasted for this one.

rgcraig
06-13-2007, 11:15 AM
No. Sometimes (or often) I am a stark, raving mad lunatic with a short temper and propensity to forget where I left any given thing of importance, and the irritating tendency to ramble from one topic to another and walk off in a daze while someone is talking to me, because one word in their sentence reminded me of the purse I may have accidentally tucked into the pantry. :coffee2

I do have rather self-impressive moments of intelligent thought...which are all (well mostly) expended here, on this forum. :D That leaves my crazy side for my close friends and family. :haloplug

Ah man, I'm disappointed.....I thought we were your close friends! :sly

BrotherEastman
06-13-2007, 11:15 AM
Btw, I consider that one of my best posts ever.

Maybe the truth of it offends Dan?
I believe it does.

MissBrattified
06-13-2007, 11:17 AM
Ah man, I'm disappointed.....I thought we were your close friends! :sly

Aw. That's sweet, Renda. :D

SDG
06-13-2007, 11:19 AM
No. Sometimes (or often) I am a stark, raving mad lunatic with a short temper and propensity to forget where I left any given thing of importance, and the irritating tendency to ramble from one topic to another and walk off in a daze while someone is talking to me, because one word in their sentence reminded me of the purse I may have accidentally tucked into the pantry. :coffee2

I do have rather self-impressive moments of intelligent thought...which are all (well mostly) expended here, on this forum. :D That leaves my crazy side for my close friends and family. :haloplug

I'm absent-minded too.

SDG
06-13-2007, 11:20 AM
I believe it does.

PP is off licking his wounds.

BrotherEastman
06-13-2007, 11:23 AM
Here's a novel thought.......stop arguing about the things you know you won't ever change your mind on and perhaps the encouraging, inspiring, thought challenging threads might make a come back.
LOL! Where in the world is the fun in that? I like just about everyone on this forum, but it is fun to argue with them too. I'm right, and no one is going to change my mind about 99% of the time, but I enjoy some of the tension around here. I've given a few knocks, but I've recieved them as well. LOL!

MissBrattified
06-13-2007, 11:23 AM
I'm absent-minded too.

You put it so succinctly. :D

Sometimes I think that maybe I'm ADD or ADHD or some kind of ADwhatever....

Rhymis
06-13-2007, 11:24 AM
Why can't we all just get a loan?

MissBrattified
06-13-2007, 11:25 AM
Why can't we all just get a loan?

Like Rush Limbaugh?

Felicity
06-13-2007, 11:25 AM
No. Sometimes (or often) I am a stark, raving mad lunatic with a short temper and propensity to forget where I left any given thing of importance, and the irritating tendency to ramble from one topic to another and walk off in a daze while someone is talking to me, because one word in their sentence reminded me of the purse I may have accidentally tucked into the pantry. :coffee2

I do have rather self-impressive moments of intelligent thought...which are all (well mostly) expended here, on this forum. :D That leaves my crazy side for my close friends and family. :haloplug Oh my goodness Abigail. This sounds SO much like me!!

(except for the stark raving made lunatic with short temper of course :haloplug ;) )

BrotherEastman
06-13-2007, 11:26 AM
I see you are fixated with my greatest posts. How are these posts inconsistent? I am a very solid moderate. So what?

Are you jealous or something?

BTW, this thread is Epley's - not mine. Does it bother you that I am logical enough to agree with truth regardless of the source? Epley is right Dan.
Dan doesn't want anyone that is conservative to know this, that is why he is scrutinizing this thread. LOL!

Rhymis
06-13-2007, 11:26 AM
Like Rush Limbaugh?


The libs drove him to abuse. :search

BrotherEastman
06-13-2007, 11:28 AM
Why is everything always con verses lib and standards verse non-standards?
This thread is NOT about that. There are folks I consider libs on this forum that love their heritage and Pentecost in general. They attend meetings that of their wing. But this I hate Pentecost is a little old.

Dan I did post that thread and that is where I am now. I have made friends here that I agree with very little. But they do not mock folks going down in Jesus Name and preaching the Mighty God in Christ. They are not elated when some troubled or confused person is leaving Pentecost. Pentecost is not perfect either wing they are made up of humans both groups have their share of scandles and failures and each have their bozos (and I may be one). But we love Pentecost with all it's failures and disappointments. It is better when we are better. Leaving an organization or particular fellowship circle or even local church is NOT the discussion. The rabid hostile outright hatred for what birthed me and has nourished me is tiring.

Issues lets fight and scrap and push the envelope. I post on a conservative forum and enjoy it but this chemistry since the FCF days has been fun and an escape for me I enjoy it and do not take it from my desk with me. I am not advocating a more conservative forum I already have that. I like this forum without the ANTI-Pentecostal bias that has become a steady drone. Forgive me for my rambling.
Good post Elder!

BrotherEastman
06-13-2007, 11:30 AM
I guess I don't understand the attacks from a poster who says he is my friend. I have mentioned no names on any of the threads he has used in the hopes of slandering me. I posted regarding ideals, and I stand by each of those posts. I am bragging, but the content is pretty good.

I am a moderate, big whoop.
Come to the light PP, come to the light, you know you wanna be a conservative. LOL!

BrotherEastman
06-13-2007, 11:32 AM
You have never pretended to be a con we have fussed til the cows come home on nearly every issue. But you do NOT hate Pentecost what is hard to understand about that?
Now elder, I'm trying to convert him. Once I do that, then I'm going after Dan. LOL!

BrotherEastman
06-13-2007, 11:33 AM
That silly Adam.....can't trust anyone, can we?
Oh sure, blame the guy!

Margies3
06-13-2007, 11:34 AM
Did I miss something?? I've been on here more than I should have been for the last few days and I've honestly not seen anyone say, "You need to get out and away from the Apostolic doctrine". Is that what the question is about, Bro Epley??

I'm sorry if this sounds argumentative. I don't mean to be. I just would be interested in seeing what it is that you've found to be so offensive. I must be missing it.

BrotherEastman
06-13-2007, 11:34 AM
and that's the point ... isn't it ??... no one has stated they hate Pentecost ... they may not agree with the UC mentality of what a Pentecostal is ... but simply because they don't hold your ideals or PP's does not mean you are hated ....
Has anyone,(up to this point in the discussion) said you didn't love your heritage? I didn't read that Dan.

BrotherEastman
06-13-2007, 11:39 AM
AFF has a nice balance of views. When you have members all in agreement, then there's no one to argue with. BOOOOORRRRRINGGGG!!!!!! :D

I haven't really noticed that many folks claiming to be ex-pentecostal...I think there may be a good number that are ex-UPC, but that isn't the same as ex-pent.

Railing against the UPCI can sometimes sound like you're anti-pentecostal, since the members of the UPCI are, (hopefully), pentecostal. I think for the complainers, its easy to blur the lines between the organization, and pentecostal culture, and complain about both, making it appear that you are not only opposed to the organization, but the people and their general views as well.

On the flip side, those reacting to the complaints can easily confuse legitimate opposition to the organization as opposition to the larger-than-UPCI pentecostal church, and that isn't always the case.

So I say...what seems like anti-pentecostal rhetoric, in many cases is anti-organizational rhetoric. I don't like it, but I understand it, and have the ability to be understanding, so long as it doesn't become vicious or stereotypical.
Good point, but Elder Epley isn't UPCI, and he's the one that noticed the trend, not just those that are UPCI.

CC1
06-13-2007, 11:40 AM
I think Brother Eastman Kodak is looking the lib way since he never did address my point on another thread that there is as much distinction between men's and women's pants today as there was between men's and women's robes in the bible days.

BrotherEastman
06-13-2007, 11:41 AM
PP is off licking his wounds.
shucks!

SDG
06-13-2007, 11:42 AM
I think Brother Eastman Kodak is looking the lib way since he never did address my point on another thread that there is as much distinction between men's and women's pants today as there was between men's and women's robes in the bible days.

He's more lib than you think ....

BrotherEastman
06-13-2007, 11:44 AM
I think Brother Eastman Kodak is looking the lib way since he never did address my point on another thread that there is as much distinction between men's and women's pants today as there was between men's and women's robes in the bible days.
I haven't gotten there yet. Everytime I get to one of these threads, it takes me forever to catch up on the subject. Don't worry, I'll get there, and once I do, you'll see that I'm right as usual. LOL!

Nahum
06-13-2007, 11:44 AM
Has anyone,(up to this point in the discussion) said you didn't love your heritage? I didn't read that Dan.

I think Daniel struggles with the issue of heritage. It is the biggest hole in his armor. On one hand he is proud of what his family has accomplished in the past. On the other hand he rails against those who hold to the same ideals he once held.

It's a weird sort of self-loathing I suppose.

Notice how defensive he was even when no one mentioned his name?
I think Epley hit a little too close to home.

BrotherEastman
06-13-2007, 11:45 AM
He's more lib than you think ....
Like I said Danny, I'll get you converted yet!

Digging4Truth
06-13-2007, 11:47 AM
As we near page 18 of this thread...

Epley has made it clear that he is speaking of the actual Acts 2:38 salvational doctrine and not standards etc.

So... with that in mind...

Who has been talking against that?

BrotherEastman
06-13-2007, 11:47 AM
I think Daniel struggles with the issue of heritage. It is the biggest hole in his armor. On one hand he is proud of what his family has accomplished in the past. On the other hand he rails against those who hold to the same ideals he once held.

It's a weird sort of self-loathing I suppose.

Notice how defensive he was even when no one mentioned his name?
I think Epley hit a little too close to home.
Yeah, I've noticed that about Danny as well PP.

Nahum
06-13-2007, 11:49 AM
PP is off licking his wounds.

shucks!

Yeah, it really bothers me when people whose opinions mean nothing to me insult me. I don't fit in dan's little box and that really torques him.

rgcraig
06-13-2007, 11:49 AM
As we near page 18 of this thread...

Epley has made it clear that he is speaking of the actual Acts 2:38 salvational doctrine and not standards etc.

So... with that in mind...

Who has been talking against that?

No one, but those lines get blurred when the rubber hits the road with many of these.

Nahum
06-13-2007, 11:49 AM
As we near page 18 of this thread...

Epley has made it clear that he is speaking of the actual Acts 2:38 salvational doctrine and not standards etc.

So... with that in mind...

Who has been talking against that?

Hmmm, let's see.... who has been howling the loudest Digger?

rgcraig
06-13-2007, 11:50 AM
Yeah, it really bothers me when people whose opinions mean nothing to me insult me. I don't fit in dan's little box and that really torques him.

And you let him torque you - - just IGNORE!

Nahum
06-13-2007, 11:52 AM
And you let him torque you - - just IGNORE!

LOL, it's cool Sister Admin.:lol

Digging4Truth
06-13-2007, 11:57 AM
Hmmm, let's see.... who has been howling the loudest Digger?

Ahhhhhhh.. I see..

You needn't say more. :)

Digging4Truth
06-13-2007, 11:58 AM
No one, but those lines get blurred when the rubber hits the road with many of these.

So with the count somewhere between 0 & 1 this forum is becoming an ex-pentecostal forum?

Someone should take a class in statistics and learn how all this works.

rgcraig
06-13-2007, 11:59 AM
So with the count somewhere between 0 & 1 this forum is becoming an ex-pentecostal forum?

Someone should take a class in statistics and learn how all this works.

Actually, glad we did this thread - maybe it can calm some of the fears. :girlpopcorn

SDG
06-13-2007, 12:03 PM
And you let him torque you - - just IGNORE!

He can't ... he enjoys being beat to a pulp.

Scott Hutchinson
06-13-2007, 12:04 PM
I teach the initial evidence doctrine.I'm proud to be Pentecostal.

Digging4Truth
06-13-2007, 12:07 PM
He can't ... he enjoys being beat to a pulp.

DA... you have touted yourself as putting the whoop down on tbpew...

Now you are touting yourself to have beaten PP to a pulp?

You dream well man...

SDG
06-13-2007, 12:08 PM
DA... you have touted yourself as putting the whoop down on tbpew...

Now you are touting yourself to have beaten PP to a pulp?

You dream well man...

You wanna piece of me D4T??? I gotta enough love.

COOPER
06-13-2007, 12:16 PM
Looks that way to me more and more. Some very bitter folks on this forum Lois would love to have y'all. :poloroid
We are all Apostolic Friends on a Forum!

Digging4Truth
06-13-2007, 12:18 PM
You wanna piece of me D4T??? I gotta enough love.

You've got enough something man...

Steve Epley
06-13-2007, 12:34 PM
Leaving on a trip.

J-Roc
06-13-2007, 12:50 PM
Leaving on a trip.


bon voyage!

Felicity
06-13-2007, 12:51 PM
I think this forum is doing okay, but I do wonder if some people aren't looking for some kind of satisfaction or fix on this forum that might be more available if they spent time in the presence of God or in pursuing other more important rewarding things.

Scott Hutchinson
06-13-2007, 12:51 PM
Elder Epley are you preaching somewhere on this trip ,if so I hope you have a great meeting ?

Kutless
06-13-2007, 12:52 PM
I think this forum is doing okay, but I do wonder if some people aren't looking for some kind of satisfaction or fix on this forum that might be more available if they spent time in the presence of God or in pursuing other more important rewarding things.from someone with 3000+ posts.........:poloroid love ya sis.

Nahum
06-13-2007, 12:54 PM
from someone with 3000+ posts.........:poloroid love ya sis.

Oucheewoowoo.:sshhh

Scott Hutchinson
06-13-2007, 12:54 PM
from someone with 3000+ posts.........:poloroid love ya sis.

See She spreads her time out wisely.

SDG
06-13-2007, 12:54 PM
from someone with 3000+ posts.........:poloroid love ya sis.

Don't fret ... Felicity .. I've got double that

Rico
06-13-2007, 01:06 PM
Not speaking of conservatives YOU are Pentecostal even CC1 & Pianoman claim to be Pentecostal we fuss issues. I fuss with the libs and mods but they do claim to be Pentecostal but of late it seems a swing in some to an ANTI-Pentecostal stance? Maybe I am reading this wrong? I wish those that knows how do to it would ask in a poll Do you go to a Pentecostal church?


Who has made anti speaking in tongues comments? Who has made anti Jesus name baptism comments? Who has said repentance is no longer necessary? It seems to me you are judging this based on standards issues.

BrotherEastman
06-13-2007, 01:07 PM
You wanna piece of me D4T??? I gotta enough love.
Which piece? And why would anyone want that piece? Nevermind, I don't really wanna know.

Rico
06-13-2007, 01:09 PM
I think we are in one of those periods of flux where the conservatives are not posting much. That doesn't help for the balance.

It also seems that the posters with the most time on their hands to post are some of the least stable and more "out there" ones regardless of what stripe of Pentecost they are.

There are two people in particular that seem to be dominating the board and neither one represent either old time Pentecost or thinking libs.

No I will not name them publicly but a PM is incoming to you!!!

These boards are like a pendulum. Right now things have swung in favor of the supposed "liberals." I am sure that in no time the "conservatives" will take their turn. It's all part of it.

Nahum
06-13-2007, 01:12 PM
Who has made anti speaking in tongues comments? Who has made anti Jesus name baptism comments? Who has said repentance is no longer necessary? It seems to me you are judging this based on standards issues.


Are you serious Rico?

Go view all of the PCI threads and filter through all of the other junk posted against "narrow minded biblical reconstructionists".

Felicity
06-13-2007, 01:24 PM
from someone with 3000+ posts.........:poloroid love ya sis. LOL! :)

I know .... but should that prohibit me from making what may be a very valid point? ;) :)

Rico
06-13-2007, 01:25 PM
No. Sometimes (or often) I am a stark, raving mad lunatic with a short temper and propensity to forget where I left any given thing of importance, and the irritating tendency to ramble from one topic to another and walk off in a daze while someone is talking to me, because one word in their sentence reminded me of the purse I may have accidentally tucked into the pantry. :coffee2

I do have rather self-impressive moments of intelligent thought...which are all (well mostly) expended here, on this forum. :D That leaves my crazy side for my close friends and family. :haloplug

What are you saying here, Sister? That you are secretly a blonde in disguise? :D

Rico
06-13-2007, 01:27 PM
LOL! Where in the world is the fun in that? I like just about everyone on this forum, but it is fun to argue with them too. I'm right, and no one is going to change my mind about 99% of the time, but I enjoy some of the tension around here. I've given a few knocks, but I've recieved them as well. LOL!


Kinda like the way you are getting the smackdown over on another thread. LOL! :D

Subdued
06-13-2007, 01:29 PM
Kinda like the way you are getting the smackdown over on another thread. LOL! :D

:girlpopcorn

BrotherEastman
06-13-2007, 01:30 PM
Who me????? Never!!!:D

Rico
06-13-2007, 01:30 PM
You wanna piece of me D4T??? I gotta enough love.


A piece of what, yer mind? Are ya sure you can afford it? :D

Kutless
06-13-2007, 01:30 PM
LOL! :)

I know .... but should that prohibit me from making what may be a very valid point? ;) :)No way Sister...I'm just funnin ya!

BrotherEastman
06-13-2007, 01:30 PM
:girlpopcorn
Nice pigtails.

Digging4Truth
06-13-2007, 01:31 PM
A piece of what, yer mind? Are ya sure you can afford it? :D

I believe he is already in debt.

Rico
06-13-2007, 01:31 PM
from someone with 3000+ posts.........:poloroid love ya sis.



Heheeeeeeeeeeeee! I about spit my drink out on that one! :lol

Rico
06-13-2007, 01:33 PM
I believe he is already in debt.

Well, maybe he has a good credit rating. LOL!

berkeley
06-13-2007, 01:35 PM
Looks that way to me more and more. Some very bitter folks on this forum Lois would love to have y'all. :poloroid

Chill out, half-stack. It's not our problem that your friends don't want to come out and play:::::::::

Digging4Truth
06-13-2007, 01:35 PM
Well, maybe he has a good credit rating. LOL!

With some... maybe.

With others... not so much. :)

berkeley
06-13-2007, 01:42 PM
NOPE Pentecostal are those who preach Acts 2:38 whether from the PCI or PAJC stance. Teach the Oneness of God and baptize in Jesus Name. Very broad but not that broad.

Yes... I am Pentecostal.. read it and weep... In your face ....!!!

Michlow
06-13-2007, 01:53 PM
Looks that way to me more and more. Some very bitter folks on this forum Lois would love to have y'all. :poloroid

Uh-oh! Was I the straw that broke the camels back??

The Dean
06-13-2007, 01:54 PM
Not speaking of conservatives YOU are Pentecostal even CC1 & Pianoman claim to be Pentecostal we fuss issues. I fuss with the libs and mods but they do claim to be Pentecostal but of late it seems a swing in some to an ANTI-Pentecostal stance? Maybe I am reading this wrong? I wish those that knows how do to it would ask in a poll Do you go to a Pentecostal church?

Bro. Epley,

I haven't read the entire thread but it does appear that there is a trend to laud more hostile attitudes towards traditional Pentecostal values of recent days. We need more posts from people like yourself to insure that $400 dollar UPC lobsters and the 'did this UPC man steal money' threads don't set the tone for an entire forum.

This forum was not intended to be an anti UPC forum. It was not intended to be an anti holiness forum. It was not intended to be an anti standards forum. It was to be a place for fellowship and dialogue for Apostolics - and not just those calling themselves Pentecostal.

If more threads of real value were started then threads of genuine insignificance would lose their appeal.

Felicity
06-13-2007, 01:55 PM
I know .... but should that prohibit me from making what may be a very valid point? ;) :)

No way Sister...I'm just funnin ya!

Heheeeeeeeeeeeee! I about spit my drink out on that one! :lol LOL! Yes, well okay :) but the thing is I'm not the one complaining here now am I? So there!

:p :D

Valid point? Yea or nay?

The Dean
06-13-2007, 01:56 PM
Chill out, half-stack. It's not our problem that your friends don't want to come out and play:::::::::

I hope this post wasn't meant as offensive as it appears.

berkeley
06-13-2007, 01:59 PM
I hope this post wasn't meant as offensive as it appears.

Noway... sorry for not using a smiley. I like Epley...

The Dean
06-13-2007, 01:59 PM
I think Daniel struggles with the issue of heritage. It is the biggest hole in his armor. On one hand he is proud of what his family has accomplished in the past. On the other hand he rails against those who hold to the same ideals he once held.

It's a weird sort of self-loathing I suppose.

Notice how defensive he was even when no one mentioned his name?
I think Epley hit a little too close to home.

That is indeed an interesting observation.

J-Roc
06-13-2007, 02:05 PM
Don't fret ... Felicity .. I've got double that


You mean, double and 1/3...

Barb
06-13-2007, 02:31 PM
Looks that way to me more and more. Some very bitter folks on this forum Lois would love to have y'all. :poloroid

Speaking of Sarge, has anyone heard from her since her dad passed?!

ChTatum
06-13-2007, 02:51 PM
Ex-Pentecostal?

Maybe ex-AMF, or ex-UPC, or even ex-ALJC, but not ex-pentecostal.

Thumper
06-13-2007, 03:02 PM
Looks that way to me more and more. Some very bitter folks on this forum Lois would love to have y'all. :poloroid

You mean this isn't an ex site?????

chaotic_resolve
06-13-2007, 03:13 PM
Ex-Pentecostal?

Maybe ex-AMF, or ex-UPC, or even ex-ALJC, but not ex-pentecostal.
True. Most of the threads I've seen have been ex/anti-UPC more than anything.

CC1
06-13-2007, 03:14 PM
That is indeed an interesting observation.

Some of you found it way more interesting than I did.:poloroid

Felicity
06-13-2007, 03:18 PM
Thanks...Welcome, sir. :tiphat

Sam
06-13-2007, 09:32 PM
Looks that way to me more and more. Some very bitter folks on this forum Lois would love to have y'all. :poloroid

I've only read two posts on this thread so I have no idea where it will go but I want to offer an opinion.

I don't think it is becoming an ex-Pentecostal site.
I think most of us here consider ourselves Apostolic and Pentecostal and Holiness. We just have different opinions on what those terms mean and how they are practiced.

I've seen "bitterness" and "judgementalism" in posts by folks who fall into various places along the scale from ultra con to ultra lib.

I consider myself Apostolic, Pentecostal, and Holiness but to some I am a "weak on the message, easy believism, greasy grace, PCI-onestepper" and probably backslidden and quickly headed for the Bad Place on a slippery slope.

I have made some "bitter" comments but have tried lately to be a better person with a more open attitude. I am nobody's judge. We each have a Judge to whom we will give an account. (Rom 14:4)

rgcraig
06-13-2007, 09:34 PM
Reference Where Do You Attend Church thread - 76% UPC or Acts 2:38 churches.

Evang.Benincasa
06-13-2007, 10:16 PM
What's an "ex-pentecostal" ?

Someone who use to shop at Wal Mart.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

ThePastorsCoach
06-13-2007, 10:32 PM
I was born a Pentecostal - Have always preached Pentecost - Actually I am in a Series on The Power & Fire of the Holy Ghost!
I will always be a Classical Pentecostal - Baptized in Jesus Name!

Evang.Benincasa
06-13-2007, 10:50 PM
I was born a Pentecostal

Is that like being born Catholic, or Jewish?

Whatever. :)

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

crakjak
06-13-2007, 11:14 PM
I don't think people are all that interested at this point in expending the kind of energy needed to provide the kind of healthy tension that makes discussion forums like this really 'go'.

Perhaps the fact that we've argued and debated for a long time all the way from FCF to this forum with basically the same core group of people involved and are just burnt out a bit on it is an important one.

You're right Felicity, I have argued with all the UC's and most of the Cons, and we have begun to go over the same territory and they are still just a stubborn as they were before. :lol:lol:lol

But I still believe they are great guys and gals, I fully expect to see everyone of them on those shiny streets, just wouldn't miss the shock on their faces when they see Billy and Ruth strolling along toward them. :sly:sly

crakjak
06-13-2007, 11:24 PM
I do not post here very often either, but I definitely agree with Elder Epley here and others who are seeing the trend away from the Apostolic Pentecostal Message as God's Plan for Salvation.

It is very obvious that there is great animosity and bitterness shoveled in the direction of those here who stand for any type of separation message. They are belittled and mocked regularly here. And as already has been stated, those who declare they are leaving this message are lauded as heroes. "Doctrines" are debated and argued for which may very well be false doctrines, which when they are debated and discussed in depth, and Scripture is thrown around seeking to prove some things which are way out of the mainstream, the minds of some who may be "weak" are opened to some things which could lead to eternal destruction.

The name of this Forum is becoming misleading. Is it really a forum for Apostolic friends? It doesn't seem that is the case.


Give us a break, the UC don't need your defense, they are well able to defend what they believe.

Bro. Steve just had a whiney moment, he'll be back to his resolute self after his Wed. night preaching.:killinme:lol

WordPreacher
06-14-2007, 01:53 AM
Looks that way to me more and more. Some very bitter folks on this forum Lois would love to have y'all. :poloroid

Well, this forum is most definitely not becoming ex-pentecostal.

BTW, some people are bitter because of what has happened in Apostolic churches and it is not easy to forgive someone for the things that they have done against them, especially a pastor. Apostolic pastors are the ones that usually do the most damage to people.

WordPreacher
06-14-2007, 02:01 AM
PP we fuss about nearly everything and enjoy the fussing but I in no way say you are not Pentecostal. CC1 & Pianoman neither believe in the necessity of water and Spirit but clearly believe the Oneness message and baptism in Jesus Name being the only correct way to baptize. However some think Pentecost is a pile of dung it seems and it is getting a little old.

If pastors are preaching the truth, then the truth will be heard. It's when pastors make unbiblical rules that makes them legalistic and one of the reasons why people think Pentecost is a pile of dung. I don't blame them, but I blame the ones who call themselves pastors, because they are the reason why some of them leave the truth.

BTW, I am a Oneness Apostolic believer.

Fonix
06-14-2007, 05:12 AM
Looks that way to me more and more. Some very bitter folks on this forum Lois would love to have y'all. :poloroid

Apostolic here Bro Epley.
No EX in my future

AGAPE
06-14-2007, 06:04 AM
I'm PENTECOSTAL

I STILL PREACH THE NEW BIRTH (hint read John 3:1-10, Acts 2:38) AS ESSENTIAL TO SALVATION

AGAPE
06-14-2007, 06:05 AM
If pastors are preaching the truth, then the truth will be heard. It's when pastors make unbiblical rules that makes them legalistic and one of the reasons why people think Pentecost is a pile of dung. I don't blame them, but I blame the ones who call themselves pastors, because they are the reason why some of them leave the truth.

BTW, I am a Oneness Apostolic believer.

good grief

COOPER
06-14-2007, 06:59 AM
Bro. Epley,

I haven't read the entire thread but it does appear that there is a trend to laud more hostile attitudes towards traditional Pentecostal values of recent days. We need more posts from people like yourself to insure that $400 dollar UPC lobsters and the 'did this UPC man steal money' threads don't set the tone for an entire forum.
This forum was not intended to be an anti UPC forum. It was not intended to be an anti holiness forum. It was not intended to be an anti standards forum. It was to be a place for fellowship and dialogue for Apostolics - and not just those calling themselves Pentecostal.

If more threads of real value were started then threads of genuine insignificance would lose their appeal.

Those are Thads dirty laundry Threads.:13loads

COOPER
06-14-2007, 07:03 AM
Brother, Elder, Pastor Epley Sir,

.....I have been good.

Old Paths
06-14-2007, 08:21 AM
Well, this forum is most definitely not becoming ex-pentecostal.

BTW, some people are bitter because of what has happened in Apostolic churches and it is not easy to forgive someone for the things that they have done against them, especially a pastor. Apostolic pastors are the ones that usually do the most damage to people.




That's what I'm talking about...



:search

Glenda B
06-14-2007, 09:39 AM
If pastors are preaching the truth, then the truth will be heard. It's when pastors make unbiblical rules that makes them legalistic and one of the reasons why people think Pentecost is a pile of dung. I don't blame them, but I blame the ones who call themselves pastors, because they are the reason why some of them leave the truth.

BTW, I am a Oneness Apostolic believer.

W/P I have followed your line of reasoning for many months, on this and other forums.
I can not take you serious for one moment. You are just to much man. I wonder if you
yourself actually believe the things you post.
:lol :lol :killinme :killinme

Whole Hearted
06-14-2007, 09:54 AM
Reference Where Do You Attend Church thread - 76% UPC or Acts 2:38 churches.

Just because one stands in the garage doesn't make them a car.

Digging4Truth
06-14-2007, 09:55 AM
Just because one stands in the garage doesn't make them a car.

Whole Hearted Judgement.

Whole Hearted
06-14-2007, 09:55 AM
Well, this forum is most definitely not becoming ex-pentecostal.

BTW, some people are bitter because of what has happened in Apostolic churches and it is not easy to forgive someone for the things that they have done against them, especially a pastor. Apostolic pastors are the ones that usually do the most damage to people.


That's a crook.

Sheltiedad
06-14-2007, 09:56 AM
Just because one stands in the garage doesn't make them a car.

And just because someone makes a driver's license out of construction paper doesn't make them a driver... or give them the authority, knowledge and skills to drive the car...

Digging4Truth
06-14-2007, 09:56 AM
[/B]


That's a crook.

LOL...

I am assuming that was a typo...

Talk about a fruedian slip.

:killinme

nathan_slatter
06-14-2007, 09:59 AM
And just because someone makes a driver's license out of construction paper doesn't make them a driver... or give them the authority, knowledge and skills to drive the car...

LOL -- neither does a real drivers license... just ask my sister-in-law...

Whole Hearted
06-14-2007, 10:00 AM
Whole Hearted Judgement.

WHAT?

You make no since.

nathan_slatter
06-14-2007, 10:01 AM
WHAT?

You make no since.

SINCE when.... :poloroid

Rico
06-14-2007, 10:06 AM
Just because one stands in the garage doesn't make them a car.


And just because someone gets into a pulpit doesn't mean they speak for God.

Rico
06-14-2007, 10:08 AM
W/P I have followed your line of reasoning for many months, on this and other forums.
I can not take you serious for one moment. You are just to much man. I wonder if you
yourself actually believe the things you post.
:lol :lol :killinme :killinme

Trust me, he believes them! :D

Whole Hearted
06-14-2007, 10:13 AM
And just because someone gets into a pulpit doesn't mean they speak for God.

Trust me I believe that.

Anyone who gets in the pulpit and says that God has given them a new Revelation and that we don't need holiness anymore is a lier, a false prophet, and is not called of God.

Rico
06-14-2007, 10:17 AM
Trust me I believe that.

Anyone who gets in the pulpit and says that God has given them a new Revelation and that we don't need holiness anymore is a lier, a false prophet, and is not called of God.

I have yet to hear anyone get in a pulpit and say we don't need holiness anymore. Define holiness. ON second thought, don't. I am not in the right frame of mind to get into this right now.

Subdued
06-14-2007, 10:19 AM
I have yet to hear anyone get in a pulpit and say we don't need holiness anymore. Define holiness.

See, that's when the problems begin... When holiness is given a new definition.