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Nahum
06-14-2007, 09:44 AM
I was talking to a friend earlier this week and the topic of Bible College came up. We had graduated from Gateway together over a decade ago and were laughing about some of the twists and turns of life. Most humorous was some of the ideas we possessed as "youngsters" regarding what ministry was about, and what life would be like as a preacher in the years to come. Needless to say, we were quite mistaken!

So, with that in mind, I thought it would be kinda neat to start a thread that may help future pastors and preachers. This thread is for those of you that feel a calling to minister - but haven't yet acted upon it.

It would be nice if we could keep this a friendly, non-standards, non-critical thread. It would be nice if some of our more experienced pastors and preachers would chime in with things "they wish someone would have told them about ministry".


I'll go first.

1. A pastor would do well to gain a basic understanding of Christian sociology and psychology.
2. Less than 50% of pastors are full-time ministers.
3. Peer pressure exists in ministry. The pressure to perform is intense.
4. Watching God work and mature new Christians is joy in action.
5. Ministry is one of the most exhausting and fulfilling experiences on earth.


PP

Nahum
06-14-2007, 09:53 AM
Hmmmmm, maybe the topic is not controversial enough?

Digging4Truth
06-14-2007, 09:54 AM
Hmmmmm, maybe the topic is not controversial enough?

Wouldn't this be a thread that ministers would post on unless someone had a comment about the post?

Nahum
06-14-2007, 09:56 AM
Wouldn't this be a thread that ministers would post on unless someone had a comment about the post?


Not necessarily, any thread on AFF is open to all. Post away friend!

Maybe my initial post was too narrow? Imagine that, me, a legalist! :killinme

berkeley
06-14-2007, 09:58 AM
1. A pastor needs to have a basic understanding of sociology and psychology.
2. Less than 50% of pastors are full-time ministers.
3. Peer pressure exists in ministry. The pressure to perform is intense.
4. Watching God work and mature new Christians is joy in action.
5. Ministry is one of the most exhausting and fulfilling experiences on earth.


1. I knew it!!! education, good.
2. Did not know that. I think most pastors out west are full time.
3. Very aware.
4.
5.

Digging4Truth
06-14-2007, 09:58 AM
I would wonder where you got the stat that only 50% of pastors are full time.

Also.. is that a national stat... an org stat...

mfblume
06-14-2007, 09:58 AM
1. A pastor needs to have a basic understanding of sociology and psychology.
2. Less than 50% of pastors are full-time ministers.
3. Peer pressure exists in ministry. The pressure to perform is intense.
4. Watching God work and mature new Christians is joy in action.
5. Ministry is one of the most exhausting and fulfilling experiences on earth.


I have to disagree with point 1. I think the leading of the Holy Ghost supplies what we need to help folks. I have to admit I am fearful of the idea that we have to learn psychology and sociology in order to work for God. I am not saying it is sinful or anything, LOL. But I really think it is replacing the moving of the Spirit with the thoughts and inventions of men.

The disciples used the gifts of the Spirit as well as insight from the Spirit to work with people. They did not have colleges to attend in order to learn secular psychology, etc. I am not saying these things may not benefit one in ministry, but to say ministers HAVE TO HAVE these basic understandings is wrong in my opinion.

Now, I do not think it is analogous to the fact that we have technology today that the disciples never had, and if we use technology then.... They're two different animals altogether.

I think God's Spirit is meant to supply all we need to understand in these areas of sociology.

Nahum
06-14-2007, 09:59 AM
I would wonder where you got the stat that only 50% of pastors are full time.

Also.. is that a national stat... an org stat...

Org. Let me see if I can dig it up. Many pastors, like me, are bi-vocational.

mfblume
06-14-2007, 10:00 AM
Let me clarify and say that I am all for education. But when it comes to people's minds, the Spirit of God simply and definitely dealt with that in the early church by way of the insight He offers and Gifts.

As I said, psychology MAY WORK in many cases to an extent. But I think it is settling for far less than what is available to us in the Spirit.

Nahum
06-14-2007, 10:09 AM
From Barna:

The average pastoral compensation package represents just less than one-third (31%) of the median annual operating budget for Protestant churches. That proportion has remained relatively constant since the mid-Nineties.

Compensation Varies Among Churches

The Barna survey indicated that certain types of pastors receive larger compensation packages than do others. Education makes a substantial difference in compensation: seminary graduates receive an average of 38% more compensation than do Senior Pastors who did not graduate from a seminary. Currently about three out of every five Senior Pastors (63%) has a seminary degree.

Denominational affiliation also impacts earnings. The most prolific Protestant denominational grouping - Baptist churches, which include more than 20 different Baptist sects and constitute about one-quarter of all Protestant churches - has pastors who earn just slightly more than the national average (about $300 per year more). In comparison, among the least-highly compensated pastors are those serving charismatic and Pentecostal churches; their median package was 16% below the national average. At the high end of the compensation scale are pastors ministering in mainline churches, whose package is worth nearly 14% more than the norm. Pastors of mainline churches - i.e., the Episcopal, American Baptist, Presbyterian (USA), Lutheran, United Methodist and United Church of Christ congregations - average $45,510. The higher average is partially explained by congregations that are larger than the national average and pastors who have been in ministry longer than the pastors of other types of churches

Nahum
06-14-2007, 10:12 AM
I have to disagree with point 1. I think the leading of the Holy Ghost supplies what we need to help folks. I have to admit I am fearful of the idea that we have to learn psychology and sociology in order to work for God. I am not saying it is sinful or anything, LOL. But I really think it is replacing the moving of the Spirit with the thoughts and inventions of men.

The disciples used the gifts of the Spirit as well as insight from the Spirit to work with people. They did not have colleges to attend in order to learn secular psychology, etc. I am not saying these things may not benefit one in ministry, but to say ministers HAVE TO HAVE these basic understandings is wrong in my opinion.

Now, I do not think it is analogous to the fact that we have technology today that the disciples never had, and if we use technology then.... They're two different animals altogether.

I think God's Spirit is meant to supply all we need to understand in these areas of sociology.

I'll change it to say "it would be helpful to have a basic understanding of Christian sociology and psychology".

I do think you are right about the leading of the Spirit, but some men enter ministry with very little people skills.

Chan
06-14-2007, 10:12 AM
I'll go first.

1. A pastor needs to have a basic understanding of sociology and psychology.No! An understanding of wicked worldly philosophies is not required. A thorough understanding of the sin nature is a must.
2. Less than 50% of pastors are full-time ministers.Interesting.
3. Peer pressure exists in ministry. The pressure to perform is intense.I don't doubt it but we can attribute it to the sinful nature.
4. Watching God work and mature new Christians is joy in action.Amen!!!!!!!!!!!
5. Ministry is one of the most exhausting and fulfilling experiences on earth.I think that would apply to anyone obeying God's call on one's life.

mfblume
06-14-2007, 10:15 AM
I'll change it to say "it would be helpful to have a basic understanding of Christian sociology and psychology".

I do think you are right about the leading of the Spirit, but some men enter ministry with very little people skills.

I can agree with that.

Nahum
06-14-2007, 10:16 AM
I can agree with that.

Hey Bro,

What do you wish you would have known?

StillStanding
06-14-2007, 10:20 AM
From the perspective of a pastor's son growing up!

1. Must be able to roll with the punches.
2. Must realize that you can't please everybody.
3. Must know when to hold, and when to fold.
4. There are battles not worth winning!
5. Don't let them ever see you sweat! :)
6. Must show a possitive attitude no matter what is troubling you!
7. There are some preachers that you think are your friends, but will disappear when trouble comes!
8. There are other preachers that will come to your rescue that you didn't expect!
9. Must never tell your children to act right because of how it will look on you!
10. Must be prepared to take credit when things are going well, and blame when things are not!

Jack Shephard
06-14-2007, 10:22 AM
From the perspective of a pastor's son growing up!

1. Must be able to roll with the punches.
2. Must realize that you can't please everybody.
3. Must know when to hold, and when to fold.
4. There are battles not worth winning!
5. Don't let them ever see you sweat! :)
6. Must show a possitive attitude no matter what is troubling you!
7. There are some preachers that you think are your friends, but will disappear when trouble comes!
8. There are other preachers that will come to your rescue that you didn't expect!
9. Must never tell your children to act right because of how it will look on you!
10. Must be prepared to take credit when things are going well, and blame when things are not!

Great points Steinway man!

SDG
06-14-2007, 10:24 AM
From the perspective of a pastor's son growing up!

1. Must be able to roll with the punches.
2. Must realize that you can't please everybody.
3. Must know when to hold, and when to fold.
4. There are battles not worth winning!
5. Don't let them ever see you sweat! :)
6. Must show a possitive attitude no matter what is troubling you!
7. There are some preachers that you think are your friends, but will disappear when trouble comes!
8. There are other preachers that will come to your rescue that you didn't expect!
9. Must never tell your children to act right because of how it will look on you!
10. Must be prepared to take credit when things are going well, and blame when things are not!

On point ... Pianoman ... my dad epitomized everyone one of these.

SDG
06-14-2007, 10:25 AM
Hey ... here's a novel thought ... act Christ-like.

Kutless
06-14-2007, 10:27 AM
I'll change it to say "it would be helpful to have a basic understanding of Christian sociology and psychology".

I do think you are right about the leading of the Spirit, but some men enter ministry with very little people skills.I'm not a minister, but agree with the people skills thing bro.

StillStanding
06-14-2007, 10:29 AM
Great points Steinway man!

On point ... Pianoman ... my dad epitomized everyone one of these.
Thanks guys! :)

Rico
06-14-2007, 10:32 AM
I was in prison ministry for a time so I feel that I can give some advice to those seeking to go into ministry. My main piece of advice would be to be prepared to have the things you preach attacked by the enemy of your soul. Those in ministry have to deal with spiritual warfare on a level that most saints never see. Be prepared for the battle. Your weaknesses will be magnified by the forces of darkness against you. Stay prayed up and be accountable to those who have gone before you in ministry. More than likely they have faced and won the battles that await you and they will be a valuable source of direction and strength for you.

mfblume
06-14-2007, 10:36 AM
Hey Bro,

What do you wish you would have known?

When I started out, I wished I had known to not allow certain saints to occupy my mind so much who simply would not receive from God and grow. It often drove me bananas to try to help certain folks get hold of God when they incessantly refused, but attended every service. I became so concerned that I realized I was starting to abandon the ministry to others who did desire to grow and go into all God had to offer.

I had to settle with the fact that my job was to throw out the seed and each person was responsibile for it after that, not me. I had to settle with the fact that some are 30, some 60 and others 100 fold christians. I was so badly wanting EVERYONE to grow in Christ!

mfblume
06-14-2007, 10:37 AM
Another thing that is so important, which Daniel Alicea alluded to as well, is FULLNESS OF THE FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT!



All the gifts and talents are sounding brass and tinkling cymbals without the FRUIT.

Kutless
06-14-2007, 11:19 AM
again I am not a minister but as this was mentioned on another thread it made me want to ask.

What about the threat of putting yourself on a pedastel. As in the role of an authoritarian wouldn't one want to remain extremely humble as to not become an idol to some?

this probably doesn't make sense

Charlie Brown
06-14-2007, 11:21 AM
A song a friend of mine wrote goes...


A Jesus man is a lonely man, and he walks all alone
A Jesus man is a hated man, with no place to call home
But a Jesus man is a powerful man, and all he's gotta do is just speak
A Jesus man, a Jesus man, is what I wanna be

revrandy
06-14-2007, 11:28 AM
On point ... Pianoman ... my dad epitomized everyone one of these.

What happened to you?





:D:D

revrandy
06-14-2007, 11:29 AM
A song a friend of mine wrote goes...


A Jesus man is a lonely man, and he walks all alone
A Jesus man is a hated man, with no place to call home
But a Jesus man is a powerful man, and all he's gotta do is just speak
A Jesus man, a Jesus man, is what I wanna be

This ain't like Jesus...

mfblume
06-14-2007, 11:33 AM
again I am not a minister but as this was mentioned on another thread it made me want to ask.

What about the threat of putting yourself on a pedastel. As in the role of an authoritarian wouldn't one want to remain extremely humble as to not become an idol to some?

this probably doesn't make sense

It certainly does make sense. It is tempting to abuse the position as a minister to enjoy "lording it" over God's heritage. Some have and do. I believe it is so vital to ever rebuke the spirit of pride. I believe the Lord's prayer covers all the vital elements of prayer, including the need to not stray from the narrow path and be led into temptation on the broad road that leads to destruction. "Lord, keep me humble, and do not let me stray from righteousness."

Some like the alleged "limelight" of being seen before people. That is why Paul told Timothy to lay hands suddenly on no man for ordination, and to instead KNOW THOSE who labour among us.

revrandy
06-14-2007, 11:38 AM
1. A pastor would do well to gain a basic understanding of Christian sociology and psychology.

Most would do well with some Bible College classes too...

2. Less than 50% of pastors are full-time ministers.

I think this is good in the fact that it seems most of those pastors who are full time seem to lost perspective on the working family... Some full time Pastors need to go back to work to experiance it
again...

3. Peer pressure exists in ministry. The pressure to perform is intense.

Keeping up with the Jones is more like it... There seems to be a class society in the Ministry..

4. Watching God work and mature new Christians is joy in action.

This is true in all cases...

5. Ministry is one of the most exhausting and fulfilling experiences on earth.

This is the irony of ministry...


PP

Imo...only of course...

StillStanding
06-14-2007, 11:41 AM
A church usually takes on the persona of the pastor. They emulate his actions, personality, and spirituality.

Folks will naturally put their pastor on a pedestal. IMO, a pastor should counter that with humility and grace.

When a pastor starts enjoying the pedestal too much, is when problems start happening!

Charlie Brown
06-14-2007, 11:44 AM
This ain't like Jesus...



Why not??

revrandy
06-14-2007, 11:44 AM
A church usually takes on the persona of the pastor. They emulate his actions, personality, and spirituality.

Folks will naturally put their pastor on a pedestal. IMO, a pastor should counter that with humility and grace.

When a pastor starts enjoying the pedestal too much, is when problems start happening!

This is very true....also the Pastor's wife enjoying the Power pedestal can cause many problems...

There are some churches that love the Ministry...and some that worship the ministry... I've been in and seen both....

Nahum
06-14-2007, 11:50 AM
A song a friend of mine wrote goes...


A Jesus man is a lonely man, and he walks all alone
A Jesus man is a hated man, with no place to call home
But a Jesus man is a powerful man, and all he's gotta do is just speak
A Jesus man, a Jesus man, is what I wanna be


This is pretty good.

Ministry is very lonely at times.

Which leads me to my number 6.

6. Be friendly with God's people, but be careful not to be too friendly. Familiarity breeds contempt.

Charlie Brown
06-14-2007, 11:52 AM
A song a friend of mine wrote goes...


A Jesus man is a lonely man, and he walks all alone
A Jesus man is a hated man, with no place to call home
But a Jesus man is a powerful man, and all he's gotta do is just speak
A Jesus man, a Jesus man, is what I wanna be

This ain't like Jesus...

Why not??

Bump for REVRANDY

revrandy
06-14-2007, 11:53 AM
Why not??

This is pretty good.

Ministry is very lonely at times.

Which leads me to my number 6.

6. Be friendly with God's people, but be careful not to be too friendly. Familiarity breeds contempt.

Jesus was extremely social....had twelve men with him most of the time.. not a loner... spent a lot of time at folks houses... and travelled frequently...

the reason familiarity breeds contempt is because people find out who you really are.... and if there's contempt there might be reason for you to change...

I don't know if I really believe this anymore...

Nahum
06-14-2007, 11:55 AM
Jesus was extremely social....had twelve men with him most of the time.. not a loner... spent a lot of time at folks houses... and travelled frequently...

the reason familiarity breeds contempt is because people find out who you really are.... and if there's contempt there might be reason for you to change...

I don't know if I really believe this anymore...

Jesus definitely had times of aloneness and even lonliness.

mfblume
06-14-2007, 11:55 AM
A pastor should also HIGHLY ESTEEM the opinions of biblical scholars. There really has been too much, "All I need is God and the Bible" sort of talk from self-proclaimed preachers who spout out utter nonsense. This does not mean we accept everything a scholar produces to us, but it is wisdom to receive a multitude of counsellors.

One preacher spoke of Isaiah having preached to Sodom and Gomorrah, because he read this:

Isa 1:9-11 KJV Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah. (10) Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah. (11) To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.


Sodom and Gomorrah rose and fell long before Isaiah was born, back in the days of Abraham! And a preacher mistook the reference above to refer to an idea that Isaiah actually preached in those cities. Had he researched the passage and observed some ideas from a good commentary or scholarly work, he would have realized how incorrect he was.

The idea that commentaries and references are nonsense is rife amongst many apostolic ministers, but is ridiculous in actuality. I send the motion that minister should use some good years in bible school.

Charlie Brown
06-14-2007, 11:55 AM
This is pretty good.

Ministry is very lonely at times.

Which leads me to my number 6.

6. Be friendly with God's people, but be careful not to be too friendly. Familiarity breeds contempt.

I thought so too. It really is a good ole "Suthern gospil" song.

Nahum
06-14-2007, 11:56 AM
A pastor shoudl also HIGHLY ESTEEM the opinions of biblical scholars. There really has been too much, "All I need is God and the Bible" sort of talk from self-proclaimed preachers who spout out utter nonsense.

One preacher spoke of Isaiah having preached to Sodom and Gomorrah, because he read this:



Sodom and Gomorrah rose and fell long before Isaiah was born, back in the days of Abraham! And a preacher mistook the reference above to refer to an idea that Isaiah actually preached in those cities. Had he researched the passage and observed some ideas from a good commentary or scholarly work, he would have realized how incorrect he was.

The idea that commentaries and references are nonsense is rife amongst many apostolic ministers, but is ridiculous in actuality. I send the motion that minister should use some good years in bible school.

I agree, as long as it is accredited.

revrandy
06-14-2007, 11:58 AM
Jesus definitely had times of aloneness and even lonliness.

I'm not saying there weren't times.. but he did travel extensively with the twelve... went to sinners houses and dinners... went to wedding parties...

Part of the reason folks can't get along socialibly is that they will see you for who you are...
and you them...

Charlie Brown
06-14-2007, 11:59 AM
A minister MUST be a man of much prayer and fasting. If you don't like praying a lot, find a good job and settle down under a pastor that does.

revrandy
06-14-2007, 12:00 PM
A part of this familarity breeds contempt stuff and seperation is what breeds Elitism in the Ministry and their Children...

Margies3
06-14-2007, 12:01 PM
I'm not in the ministry, so probably shouldn't post here.............
but oh well..................

One thing that I've noticed over the years is that the pastors in Apostolic churches tend to form little cliques with each other. And they're usually very careful about forming any real friendships with the saints of their church. Their friends seem to come mostly from others who are in the ministry.

I guess I can understand this, to a point. But on the other hand, are we not ALL called to minister? I would think that if a minister wanted to be successful, he would want to form a strong bond with those he has to work with day in and day out.

Because I have alot of associations with pastors who are outside of Apostolic circles, I can tell you this - in other denominations, there is not that same kind of mentality. Yes, pastors fellowship with one another. But, for instance, in our church, our pastor and his wife both have great friends from here within the church.

Ronzo
06-14-2007, 12:02 PM
Jesus was extremely social....had twelve men with him most of the time.. not a loner... spent a lot of time at folks houses... and travelled frequently...

the reason familiarity breeds contempt is because people find out who you really are.... and if there's contempt there might be reason for you to change...

Especially if you're not REAL...

Nahum
06-14-2007, 12:02 PM
I'm not saying there weren't times.. but he did travel extensively with the twelve... went to sinners houses and dinners... went to wedding parties...

Part of the reason folks can't get along socialibly is that they will see you for who you are...
and you them...

Maybe, but there are some aspects of life and ministry that are reserved for a ministers mind alone. There ares some things that we can't even share with our spouse's. That can lead to a feeling of isolation.

A minister is God's man - no one else's.

Nahum
06-14-2007, 12:03 PM
I really didn't want this to be a preacher bashing thread.

berkeley
06-14-2007, 12:03 PM
Especially if you're not REAL...

*fake smile* *glossed over glare in the eyes* Whatever do you mean?

revrandy
06-14-2007, 12:04 PM
Maybe, but there are some aspects of life and ministry that are reserved for a ministers mind alone. There ares some things that we can't even share with our spouse's. That can lead to a feeling of isolation.

A minister is God's man - no one else's.


This part is true..
People tell us things and trust us to keep their trust....

Ronzo
06-14-2007, 12:04 PM
I really didn't want this to be a preacher bashing thread.
You should know better.

:club


Take your licks like a MAN, preacher!!!! :smack

Nahum
06-14-2007, 12:05 PM
I'm not in the ministry, so probably shouldn't post here.............
but oh well..................

One thing that I've noticed over the years is that the pastors in Apostolic churches tend to form little cliques with each other. And they're usually very careful about forming any real friendships with the saints of their church. Their friends seem to come mostly from others who are in the ministry.

I guess I can understand this, to a point. But on the other hand, are we not ALL called to minister? I would think that if a minister wanted to be successful, he would want to form a strong bond with those he has to work with day in and day out.

Because I have alot of associations with pastors who are outside of Apostolic circles, I can tell you this - in other denominations, there is not that same kind of mentality. Yes, pastors fellowship with one another. But, for instance, in our church, our pastor and his wife both have great friends from here within the church.

I disagree. Too much friendship between pastors and saints leads to a dilution of spiritual authority. That has nothing to do with elitism. It has to do with Divine order.

Ronzo
06-14-2007, 12:05 PM
*fake smile* *glossed over glare in the eyes* Whatever do you mean?
You forgot "pretend to be listening and nodding head in agreement, all the while thinking about.... ???" Or better yet... dominating the conversation so someone can't get a word in edgewise.

berkeley
06-14-2007, 12:06 PM
You forgot "pretend to be listening and nodding head in agreement, all the while thinking about.... ???" Or better yet... dominating the conversation so someone can't get a word in edgewise.

:lol foot resting on thigh... hands clasped on lap...

revrandy
06-14-2007, 12:06 PM
I really didn't want this to be a preacher bashing thread.

Sorry.. I was just trying to be more transparent.. I will keep it fluffy...

I think that addressing these issues are important tho..

the Ministry is rich and fulfilling and if your called to it there is nothing
else a person can do that will satisfy the desires of the heart...

It is as lonely as those who travel that road make it... but freindships & relationships are very important... cultivating them and making them happen
are all up to the individual...

Kutless
06-14-2007, 12:08 PM
Maybe, but there are some aspects of life and ministry that are reserved for a ministers mind alone. There ares some things that we can't even share with our spouse's. That can lead to a feeling of isolation.

A minister is God's man - no one else's.Are you speaking of something outside of personal counsel

Nahum
06-14-2007, 12:08 PM
A minister MUST be a man of much prayer and fasting. If you don't like praying a lot, find a good job and settle down under a pastor that does.

7. There is no outward ministry without inward reflection, downward humility, and upward communication with The Master.

Charlie Brown
06-14-2007, 12:09 PM
I'm not saying there weren't times.. but he did travel extensively with the twelve... went to sinners houses and dinners... went to wedding parties...

Part of the reason folks can't get along socialibly is that they will see you for who you are...
and you them...

I am not saying that there are never times of socializing. But if a preacher does not spend solitary time, and a lot of it, with his Lord, he is missing what will make him more than anything else.

The sad fact is, that if we preachers spent half as much time in solitary prayer as we do socializing with folks, we would see a noticeable increase in the presence and power of God within our pulpits. But it is so much easier to "fellowship".

Nahum
06-14-2007, 12:09 PM
Sorry.. I was just trying to be more transparent.. I will keep it fluffy...

I think that addressing these issues are important tho..

the Ministry is rich and fulfilling and if your called to it there is nothing
else a person can do that will satisfy the desires of the heart...

It is as lonely as those who travel that road make it... but freindships & relationships are very important... cultivating them and making them happen
are all up to the individual...

Wasn't addressing that to you Randy, and I agree with everything you just said. What do you wish you would have known?

mizpeh
06-14-2007, 12:11 PM
I disagree. Too much friendship between pastors and saints leads to a dilution of spiritual authority. That has nothing to do with elitism. It has to do with Divine order.

What is this divine order? Where is this taught in the word of God?

I've been agreeing with RR as I've been reading along. I don't need to know my pastor's personal business but I do want to know him as a brother in Christ and what makes him tick. I've learned he has a heart for God and I respect that.

Kutless
06-14-2007, 12:12 PM
Are you speaking of something outside of personal counselBump.....Once again PP you have proven your status in the kingdom of "Thread Starting"

Nahum
06-14-2007, 12:13 PM
Are you speaking of something outside of personal counsel


Sometimes God speaks secrets to a man that no one else could begin to understand. They are impossible to communicate with anyone - even the One you love the most. So you hold that inside and it is an intimacy between you and God alone.

Sometimes God places His leaders in places of isolation. The backside of a desert, a cave, underneath a juniper tree.....often it is in the quiet lonliness that the deep things of God are shared.

Kutless
06-14-2007, 12:14 PM
Sometimes God speaks secrets to a man that no one else could begin to understand. They are impossible to communicate with anyone - even the One you love the most. So you hold that inside and it is an intimacy between you and God alone.

Sometimes God places His leaders in places of isolation. The backside of a desert, a cave, underneath a juniper tree.....often it is in the quiet lonliness that the deep things of God are shared.while I agree I do not think this is reserved for the ministry.

Charlie Brown
06-14-2007, 12:14 PM
Sometimes God speaks secrets to a man that no one else could begin to understand. They are impossible to communicate with anyone - even the One you love the most. So you hold that inside and it is an intimacy between you and God alone.

Sometimes God places His leaders in places of isolation. The backside of a desert, a cave, underneath a juniper tree.....often it is in the quiet lonliness that the deep things of God are shared.

You have been there too??

Nahum
06-14-2007, 12:16 PM
What is this divine order? Where is this taught in the word of God?

I've been agreeing with RR as I've been reading along. I don't need to know my pastor's personal business but I do want to know him as a brother in Christ and what makes him tick. I've learned he has a heart for God and I respect that.

It is a principle Sis.

Look I am not saying that a pastor is superior. I am only saying that he has an unvbelievable respionsibility to deliver the Word without fear or favor.

Too much familiarity can compromise this.

It's not an "I'm better than you" attitude. I despise that.

It is an "I must deliver the Word to help the flock" attitude.

Rico
06-14-2007, 12:17 PM
Sometimes God speaks secrets to a man that no one else could begin to understand. They are impossible to communicate with anyone - even the One you love the most. So you hold that inside and it is an intimacy between you and God alone.

Sometimes God places His leaders in places of isolation. The backside of a desert, a cave, underneath a juniper tree.....often it is in the quiet lonliness that the deep things of God are shared.

Bro., the same thing can happen to anyone, not just ministers.

Nahum
06-14-2007, 12:18 PM
while I agree I do not think this is reserved for the ministry.

I'm sure it isn't. Anyone who has a relationship with God will experience these times. But I will say that ministry has its own issues.

mfblume
06-14-2007, 12:19 PM
I agree, as long as it is accredited.

I went to a little church basement bible school where we were drilled with following the Spirit. And the school was not accredited, but it was strong on promoting reality in the Spirit, being honest and full of integrity, which led me to personal studies including scholarly works by many. So it does not have to be accredited, I think.

Charlie Brown
06-14-2007, 12:22 PM
From what I remember hearing, as a young man Verbal Bean would often find himself alone when all the other teens were going out to have fun. He found his pleasure in the presence of God.

So it is not always by ones choice that they become a loner. Its just that not everyone whats more of God. I have found that often when I go out and fellowship with others, they want to talk about everything but God stuff. I really am not interested in sports. I could care less about fishing, or golf, or anything else for that matter. I want to talk about the things that accompany the Kingdom of God, and will sit all night and listen to those that will feed it to me. This make for, at times, a very lonely journey.

Charlie Brown
06-14-2007, 12:25 PM
I went to a little church basement bible school where we were drilled with following the Spirit. And the school was not accredited, but it was strong on promoting reality in the Spirit, being honest and full of integrity, which led me to personal studies including scholarly works by many. So it does not have to be accredited, I think.

I wonder if there are many of these around anymore?

berkeley
06-14-2007, 12:32 PM
From what I remember hearing, as a young man Verbal Bean would often find himself alone when all the other teens were going out to have fun. He found his pleasure in the presence of God.

So it is not always by ones choice that they become a loner. Its just that not everyone whats more of God. I have found that often when I go out and fellowship with others, they want to talk about everything but God stuff. I really am not interested in sports. I could care less about fishing, or golf, or anything else for that matter. I want to talk about the things that accompany the Kingdom of God, and will sit all night and listen to those that will feed it to me. This make for, at times, a very lonely journey.

This was me, 7-8 yrs ago..

Kutless
06-14-2007, 12:33 PM
I'm sure it isn't. Anyone who has a relationship with God will experience these times. But I will say that ministry has its own issues.PP I am not trying to be difficult here...but could you give a specific example?

Charlie Brown
06-14-2007, 12:35 PM
This was me, 7-8 yrs ago..

What did hinder you???

Margies3
06-14-2007, 12:36 PM
I disagree. Too much friendship between pastors and saints leads to a dilution of spiritual authority. That has nothing to do with elitism. It has to do with Divine order.

What is this divine order? Where is this taught in the word of God?

I've been agreeing with RR as I've been reading along. I don't need to know my pastor's personal business but I do want to know him as a brother in Christ and what makes him tick. I've learned he has a heart for God and I respect that.

PP, please don't think that I am being disrespectful when I say this, but........

if too much friendship between pastors and saints would lead to a dilution of spiritual authority, then I would question the spiritual authority to begin with. First of all, I've definately not seen that to be true in any church I've been in where the pastor had close friends from within the church. In fact, if anything, it tended to solidify the bonds between those involved. When that happened, it became much less necessary for the pastor 'come down' on them. And
Second of all, if this calling isn't 'like fire shut up in your bones' then is it really a calling? And if it is like the fire, then it has to come out.

It would seem to me that the closer you feel to someone, the more you would feel a burden for their very soul. And therefore, the more you would feel compelled to give to them whatever it is GOD wanted you to give them.

Of course, since I'm not in the ministry, I'll just watch from the outside. But I have to be honest and tell you that from my point of view, when you shut yourself away from the saints and fellowship only with other pastors, it makes me wonder...................

Nahum
06-14-2007, 12:37 PM
PP I am not trying to be difficult here...but could you give a specific example?


Kutless, it's just a "knowing" that you are different, consecrated, set apart for a specific purpose. That you are not to be like everyone else. This is becoming more and more rare in our society. It is also viewed as elitism when it really isn't anything other than biblical anointing.

berkeley
06-14-2007, 12:39 PM
What did hinder you???

stuff... lol.. let's not open that can of worms!!:lol

Nahum
06-14-2007, 12:40 PM
PP, please don't think that I am being disrespectful when I say this, but........

if too much friendship between pastors and saints would lead to a dilution of spiritual authority, then I would question the spiritual authority to begin with. First of all, I've definately not seen that to be true in any church I've been in where the pastor had close friends from within the church. In fact, if anything, it tended to solidify the bonds between those involved. When that happened, it became much less necessary for the pastor 'come down' on them. And
Second of all, if this calling isn't 'like fire shut up in your bones' then is it really a calling? And if it is like the fire, then it has to come out.

It would seem to me that the closer you feel to someone, the more you would feel a burden for their very soul. And therefore, the more you would feel compelled to give to them whatever it is GOD wanted you to give them.

Of course, since I'm not in the ministry, I'll just watch from the outside. But I have to be honest and tell you that from my point of view, when you shut yourself away from the saints and fellowship only with other pastors, it makes me wonder...................

Okay, go back and read my posts Sis. I have NEVER said that a pastor shouldn't fellowship and be close with the saints. My only point was that there is a line that doesn't need to be crossed.

I have learned this in the church I planted. My job is to bring folks into a relationship and fellowship with HIM.

That being said, I am a very sociable person. I fellowship with the church way more than I hang out with my preacher buddies.

Ronzo
06-14-2007, 12:46 PM
Sometimes the whole getting close to 'saints' for a preacher works in the opposite direction, in the negative sense, PP.

The preacher gets to know the 'saints' so well that he gets a little (ok, a LOT) loose in the tongue about the problems other 'saints' have... and tells how he had to talk to this one about that or that one about this... when it's none of anyone else's bidness...

And sometimes, he gets 'close enough' that he feels that he can get away with "telling 'em like it is" without using any kind of compassion in the delivery...

Seen both...

Nahum
06-14-2007, 12:48 PM
From what I remember hearing, as a young man Verbal Bean would often find himself alone when all the other teens were going out to have fun. He found his pleasure in the presence of God.

So it is not always by ones choice that they become a loner. Its just that not everyone whats more of God. I have found that often when I go out and fellowship with others, they want to talk about everything but God stuff. I really am not interested in sports. I could care less about fishing, or golf, or anything else for that matter. I want to talk about the things that accompany the Kingdom of God, and will sit all night and listen to those that will feed it to me. This make for, at times, a very lonely journey.

When I was a younger minister, Brother Jonathan Urshan Sr gave me and a few other young guys from the church a course in homiletics. It was life-changing.

He really planted a love for study in me. He referred us to EM Bounds, Arthur Pink and so many other authors who talked about prayer and real relationship with God.

EM Bounds is still a personal favorite of mine. His pamphlets on prayer are second to none.

Margies3
06-14-2007, 12:48 PM
Okay, go back and read my posts Sis. I have NEVER said that a pastor shouldn't fellowship and be close with the saints. My only point was that there is a line that doesn't need to be crossed.

I have learned this in the church I planted. My job is to bring folks into a relationship and fellowship with HIM.

That being said, I am a very sociable person. I fellowship with the church way more than I hang out with my preacher buddies.

I'm glad to hear you say this, PP. I don't think it's wrong for you to have preacher buddies - not at all!! But I think it's detrimental to everyone when you see elite little groups made out of those preacher buddies.

One thing I've noticed, particularly in the church we attend now, is that in this church the pastor has close friends from within the church. His wife has a couple of very close girlfriends from within the church. And because people see this going on, they are feel much more comfortable forming their own friendships from within the church. People will follow their leaders example, you know :)

Nahum
06-14-2007, 12:48 PM
Sometimes the whole getting close to 'saints' for a preacher works in the opposite direction, in the negative sense, PP.

The preacher gets to know the 'saints' so well that he gets a little (ok, a LOT) loose in the tongue about the problems other 'saints' have... and tells how he had to talk to this one about that or that one about this... when it's none of anyone else's bidness...

And sometimes, he gets 'close enough' that he feels that he can get away with "telling 'em like it is" without using any kind of compassion in the delivery...

Seen both...



Exactly.

Rico
06-14-2007, 12:49 PM
PP, please don't think that I am being disrespectful when I say this, but........

if too much friendship between pastors and saints would lead to a dilution of spiritual authority, then I would question the spiritual authority to begin with. First of all, I've definately not seen that to be true in any church I've been in where the pastor had close friends from within the church. In fact, if anything, it tended to solidify the bonds between those involved. When that happened, it became much less necessary for the pastor 'come down' on them. And
Second of all, if this calling isn't 'like fire shut up in your bones' then is it really a calling? And if it is like the fire, then it has to come out.

It would seem to me that the closer you feel to someone, the more you would feel a burden for their very soul. And therefore, the more you would feel compelled to give to them whatever it is GOD wanted you to give them.

Of course, since I'm not in the ministry, I'll just watch from the outside. But I have to be honest and tell you that from my point of view, when you shut yourself away from the saints and fellowship only with other pastors, it makes me wonder...................

Sister, I am in agreement with PP in that there needs to be some distance between pastors and their congregation. I have seen buddy buddy type relationships cause problems in churches before.

Charlie Brown
06-14-2007, 12:51 PM
When I was a younger minister, Brother Jonathan Urshan Sr gave me and a few other young guys from the church a course in homiletics. It was life-changing.

He really planted a love for study in me. He referred us to EM Bounds. Arthur Pink and so many other authors who talked about prayer and real relationship with God.

EM Bounds is still a personal favorite of mine. His pamphlets on prayer are second to none.

This man, as well as Leonard Ravenhill, shaped my life as a young preacher in regards to prayer and revival.

StillStanding
06-14-2007, 12:51 PM
Sister, I am in agreement with PP in that there needs to be some distance between pastors and their congregation. I have seen buddy buddy type relationships cause problems in churches before.

Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer! :)

Margies3
06-14-2007, 12:52 PM
Sometimes the whole getting close to 'saints' for a preacher works in the opposite direction, in the negative sense, PP.

The preacher gets to know the 'saints' so well that he gets a little (ok, a LOT) loose in the tongue about the problems other 'saints' have... and tells how he had to talk to this one about that or that one about this... when it's none of anyone else's bidness...

And sometimes, he gets 'close enough' that he feels that he can get away with "telling 'em like it is" without using any kind of compassion in the delivery...

Seen both...

In that case, I'd have to say SHAME on that pastor!!!

We, as saints, are taught that loose tongues are wrong. It's the same for the pastor!

Nahum
06-14-2007, 12:52 PM
This man, as well as Leonard Ravenhill, shaped my life as a young preacher in regards to prayer and revival.

Ditto. You can feel Bound's passion for prayer in his writing.

His books should be required reading for any aspiring minister.

Rico
06-14-2007, 01:12 PM
Sometimes the whole getting close to 'saints' for a preacher works in the opposite direction, in the negative sense, PP.

The preacher gets to know the 'saints' so well that he gets a little (ok, a LOT) loose in the tongue about the problems other 'saints' have... and tells how he had to talk to this one about that or that one about this... when it's none of anyone else's bidness...

And sometimes, he gets 'close enough' that he feels that he can get away with "telling 'em like it is" without using any kind of compassion in the delivery...

Seen both...

It not's just that. Sometimes people get too close to the pastor and can see all their faults and flaws. Knowing what these faults and flaws are can negatively affect how a person views their pastor and his role in their walk with God. I am not suggesting that ministry needs to be put on a pedastal and realize that everyone has faults and flaws, but know what your pastors are could make it hard to accept what he says when he gets into the pulpit.

revrandy
06-14-2007, 01:15 PM
It not's just that. Sometimes people get too close to the pastor and can see all their faults and flaws. Knowing what these faults and flaws are can negatively affect how a person views their pastor and his role in their walk with God. I am not suggesting that ministry needs to be put on a pedastal and realize that everyone has faults and flaws, but know what your pastors are could make it hard to accept what he says when he gets into the pulpit.

A part of the problem is that people place high and lofty expectations on the ministry... and when their picture of that is dimished for whatever reason the relationship becomes tarnished... and is in jepordy...

I think that there is a line that shouldn't be crossed in Pastor/Saint relationship but that should never be a divide for unfriendliness...

I've been in some churches where the Pastor/wife were just downright unfriendly...

and some (growing) are the friendliest folks in the world...

Rico
06-14-2007, 01:19 PM
A part of the problem is that people place high and lofty expectations on the ministry... and when their picture of that is dimished for whatever reason the relationship becomes tarnished... and is in jepordy...

I think that there is a line that shouldn't be crossed in Pastor/Saint relationship but that should never be a divide for unfriendliness...

I've been in some churches where the Pastor/wife were just downright unfriendly...

and some (growing) are the friendliest folks in the world...

So, you don't think people should expect more from those in ministry? How can I follow someone who isn't ahead of me? Paul said, "Follow me as I follow Christ." In order for someone to follow you you have to be out front (ahead.)

revrandy
06-14-2007, 01:24 PM
It not's just that. Sometimes people get too close to the pastor and can see all their faults and flaws. Knowing what these faults and flaws are can negatively affect how a person views their pastor and his role in their walk with God. I am not suggesting that ministry needs to be put on a pedastal and realize that everyone has faults and flaws, but know what your pastors are could make it hard to accept what he says when he gets into the pulpit.

So, you don't think people should expect more from those in ministry? How can I follow someone who isn't ahead of me? Paul said, "Follow me as I follow Christ." In order for someone to follow you you have to be out front (ahead.)

You said it...

or is this a humor attempt??

berkeley
06-14-2007, 01:25 PM
Wait a sec. Randy is a minister? :hmmm

revrandy
06-14-2007, 01:26 PM
Wait a sec. Randy is a minister? :hmmm

Just a humble servant...my friend...

berkeley
06-14-2007, 01:27 PM
Just a humble servant...my friend...

Are you licensed?

revrandy
06-14-2007, 01:28 PM
Are you licensed?

Bonified...

berkeley
06-14-2007, 01:29 PM
Bonified...

English, please.

revrandy
06-14-2007, 01:30 PM
English, please.

Yes...

Margies3
06-14-2007, 01:31 PM
So, you don't think people should expect more from those in ministry? How can I follow someone who isn't ahead of me? Paul said, "Follow me as I follow Christ." In order for someone to follow you you have to be out front (ahead.)

Why would you expect more from those in ministry? We're all on this journey together, brother.

Do you think that God works in a more mighty way in the life of a minister than He does in the life of a saint?

I know that you are saying that you shouldn't put the pastor up on a pedestal. But by expecting more of him than you would of yourself or some other saint, you really are.

No wonder saints end up hurt. These men are just as human as anyone else. Trying just as hard. But just as fallible. That's unfair pressure to put on them - expecting more of them than of other saints.

Rico
06-14-2007, 01:32 PM
You said it...

or is this a humor attempt??

I'm being serious, Brother. I had this very thing happen to me. In my case I believe it was God correcting my viewpoint on ministry. I can't go into any of the details of what God started showing about this pastor, but I know that I got way too close to him and I had put him way too high on that pedastal. So high, in fact, that he got between me and God. So, I guess the point I am making is threefold.

1) It's important for ministry to be ahead of laity. (spiritually speaking)

2) It's important to not put ministry too awfully high up on a pedastal.

3) It's important for some distance to be between those in ministry and laity.

berkeley
06-14-2007, 01:33 PM
Yes...

Local? Ordained? How long?

Rico
06-14-2007, 01:34 PM
Bonified...


You is qualified, certified, ractified, and bonified! :) My dad used to say that all the time! :D

revrandy
06-14-2007, 01:34 PM
Why would you expect more from those in ministry? We're all on this journey together, brother.

Do you think that God works in a more mighty way in the life of a minister than He does in the life of a saint?

I know that you are saying that you shouldn't put the pastor up on a pedestal. But by expecting more of him than you would of yourself or some other saint, you really are.

No wonder saints end up hurt. These men are just as human as anyone else. Trying just as hard. But just as fallible. That's unfair pressure to put on them - expecting more of them than of other saints.


Sis.....
That line depends on how folks who are in church were brought up... most in UC circles and some moderates the voice of the Preacher is God... and when he or any other preacher falters or fails they are never looked at as the same..

revrandy
06-14-2007, 01:35 PM
Local? Ordained? How long?

Why do you want to know?

Rico
06-14-2007, 01:35 PM
Why would you expect more from those in ministry? We're all on this journey together, brother.

Do you think that God works in a more mighty way in the life of a minister than He does in the life of a saint?

I know that you are saying that you shouldn't put the pastor up on a pedestal. But by expecting more of him than you would of yourself or some other saint, you really are.

No wonder saints end up hurt. These men are just as human as anyone else. Trying just as hard. But just as fallible. That's unfair pressure to put on them - expecting more of them than of other saints.

Sister, can you follow someone that isn't ahead of you?

Nahum
06-14-2007, 01:35 PM
Why would you expect more from those in ministry? We're all on this journey together, brother.

Do you think that God works in a more mighty way in the life of a minister than He does in the life of a saint?

I know that you are saying that you shouldn't put the pastor up on a pedestal. But by expecting more of him than you would of yourself or some other saint, you really are.

No wonder saints end up hurt. These men are just as human as anyone else. Trying just as hard. But just as fallible. That's unfair pressure to put on them - expecting more of them than of other saints.

I totally disagree with the spirit of this post. It is an effort to reduce the authority of the pulpit to rubble. Ministry does have higher expectations.

SOMEONE has to lead.

This cannot happen if we are all equal in an authority sense.

Nahum
06-14-2007, 01:37 PM
8. Some folks will never agree with you no matter how right or agreeable you may be.

9. Some folks will hate you just for being there.

berkeley
06-14-2007, 01:37 PM
Why do you want to know?

NEVERMIND! ! ! ! ! !

revrandy
06-14-2007, 01:38 PM
I'm being serious, Brother. I had this very thing happen to me. In my case I believe it was God correcting my viewpoint on ministry. I can't go into any of the details of what God started showing about this pastor, but I know that I got way too close to him and I had put him way too high on that pedastal. So high, in fact, that he got between me and God. So, I guess the point I am making is threefold.

1) It's important for ministry to be ahead of laity. (spiritually speaking)

2) It's important to not put ministry too awfully high up on a pedastal.

3) It's important for some distance to be between those in ministry and laity.

Rico...

I do agree with you here...

revrandy
06-14-2007, 01:38 PM
NEVERMIND! ! ! ! ! !

Bro..You are sensitive...

revrandy
06-14-2007, 01:39 PM
10. Some folks are happy when their unhappy all the time...

Nahum
06-14-2007, 01:40 PM
10. Some folks are happy when their unhappy all the time...

:lol That is true, and some folks love being sick. These things become an identity they can cling to.

Rico
06-14-2007, 01:41 PM
Lemme put it to you this way. Brother "A" is a regular pew warming saint, faithful in his giving, church attendance, etc. It comes to light that Brother "A" has been stealing money from his job or wherever. You forgive Brother "A" and he goes on warming a pew.

Brother "B" is your pastor. It comes to light that Brother "B" has been stealing money from his job, church, or wherever. Are you justified in being more upset with Brother "B" because he was your pastor than Brother "A"?

I say yes, because Brother "B" has responsibilities that Brother "A" does not have. People are counting on Brother "B" to be a quality example of what it means to follow after Christ because God has placed him as a spiritual leader in their lives. To whom much is given much is required.

Nahum
06-14-2007, 01:43 PM
Lemme put it to you this way. Brother "A" is a regular pew warming saint, faithful in his giving, church attendance, etc. It comes to light that Brother "A" has been stealing money from his job or wherever. You forgive Brother "A" and he goes on warming a pew.

Brother "B" is your pastor. It comes to light that Brother "B" has been stealing money from his job, church, or wherever? Are you justified in being more upset with Brother "B" because he was your pastor than Brother "A"?

I say yes, because Brother "B" has responsibilities that Brother "A" does not have. People are counting on Brother "B" to be a quality example of what it means to follow after Christ because God has placed him as a spiritual leader in their lives. To whom much is given much is required.



awww man! Why did it need to be Brother B? He always gets the bad rap!

But I do agree with you.

Ronzo
06-14-2007, 01:44 PM
10. Some folks are happy when their unhappy all the time...
I know people like that.

They're not happy unless they're miserable.

Nahum
06-14-2007, 01:45 PM
Why would you expect more from those in ministry? We're all on this journey together, brother.

Do you think that God works in a more mighty way in the life of a minister than He does in the life of a saint?

I know that you are saying that you shouldn't put the pastor up on a pedestal. But by expecting more of him than you would of yourself or some other saint, you really are.

No wonder saints end up hurt. These men are just as human as anyone else. Trying just as hard. But just as fallible. That's unfair pressure to put on them - expecting more of them than of other saints.

But we talk about fallen ministers way more than we do the saints that mess up, don't we?

I wonder why?

revrandy
06-14-2007, 01:46 PM
or it's like this...

RR is a much better fisherman than PP and it's widely known. But RR when he loses a fish he says choice words like Rats!!..... or that' STINKS!!... and very loud.....PP when he loses a Fish he simply says THANK YOU Lord for allowing me to get a bite (because he rarely catches a fish) ...

Which Pastor would you love more??

Nahum
06-14-2007, 01:47 PM
or it's like this...

RR is a much better fisherman than PP and it's widely known. But RR when he loses a fish he says choice words like Rats!!..... or that' STINKS!!... and very loud.....PP when he loses a Fish he simply says THANK YOU Lord for allowing me to get a bite (because he rarely catches a fish) ...

Which Pastor would you love more??

Sad, but true.:search

revrandy
06-14-2007, 01:48 PM
Sad, but true.:search

I feel your pain....


11. Some Folks always want sympathy over truth... and when you tell them truth they get upset.....

Rico
06-14-2007, 01:50 PM
or it's like this...

RR is a much better fisherman than PP and it's widely known. But RR when he loses a fish he says choice words like Rats!!..... or that' STINKS!!... and very loud.....PP when he loses a Fish he simply says THANK YOU Lord for allowing me to get a bite (because he rarely catches a fish) ...

Which Pastor would you love more??

That depends. I have seen your boat but have yet to see his. :lol

revrandy
06-14-2007, 01:51 PM
That depends. I have seen your boat but have yet to see his. :lol

Boats are thicker than water.... :D

Rico
06-14-2007, 01:52 PM
Boats are thicker than water.... :D

Yeah, but the nicer the boat the less it matters whether you catch fish or not. :D

Ronzo
06-14-2007, 01:54 PM
Boats are thicker than water.... :D
Boats are holes in the water you throw money into...

revrandy
06-14-2007, 01:54 PM
Yeah, but the nicer the boat the less it matters whether you catch fish or not. :D

:D

"GL"
06-14-2007, 02:57 PM
1. Preach to the hungry, not the discontented.

"GL"
06-14-2007, 02:58 PM
2. You cannot pastor everyone. When someone wants to leave you, graciously let them go.

"GL"
06-14-2007, 02:59 PM
3. When someone backslides or leaves for "greener pastures," don't take it personally.

"GL"
06-14-2007, 03:00 PM
4. Never, ever allow yourself or your family to become isolated.

Nahum
06-14-2007, 03:02 PM
4. Never, ever allow yourself or your family to become isolated.


Awesome advice Bro!

Keep going.

"GL"
06-14-2007, 03:03 PM
5. Preach the Word, not what you've heard others preach. Preach the Word, not what you feel pressured into preaching. Preach the Word, not traditions or personal preferences and convictions.

"GL"
06-14-2007, 03:08 PM
6. Crucify your selfish insecurities. It's not about you anyway. Refuse to give in to doubt, fear and depression. They all stem from your inability to fully trust God. Surrender complete control to Him, and you'll never have problems with "control issues."

"GL"
06-14-2007, 03:10 PM
- gleaned from someone else, so I won't count it as mine -

"There is only ONE God, and you are not Him!"

:D

revrandy
06-14-2007, 03:15 PM
GL... No fair...your pulling these out of a book....










:D

WordPreacher
06-14-2007, 03:15 PM
I have to disagree with point 1. I think the leading of the Holy Ghost supplies what we need to help folks. I have to admit I am fearful of the idea that we have to learn psychology and sociology in order to work for God. I am not saying it is sinful or anything, LOL. But I really think it is replacing the moving of the Spirit with the thoughts and inventions of men.

The disciples used the gifts of the Spirit as well as insight from the Spirit to work with people. They did not have colleges to attend in order to learn secular psychology, etc. I am not saying these things may not benefit one in ministry, but to say ministers HAVE TO HAVE these basic understandings is wrong in my opinion.

Now, I do not think it is analogous to the fact that we have technology today that the disciples never had, and if we use technology then.... They're two different animals altogether.

I think God's Spirit is meant to supply all we need to understand in these areas of sociology.


Amen Brother!!!!

"GL"
06-14-2007, 03:19 PM
GL... No fair...your pulling these out of a book....










:D


Nope. Not at all.

I've only heard the last one. Have not even had time to read his book yet...

:D

mizpeh
06-14-2007, 04:47 PM
It is a principle Sis.

Look I am not saying that a pastor is superior. I am only saying that he has an unvbelievable respionsibility to deliver the Word without fear or favor.

Too much familiarity can compromise this.

It's not an "I'm better than you" attitude. I despise that.

It is an "I must deliver the Word to help the flock" attitude.

Okay, I can understand that. I've been reading those books by Verbal Bean and he says something similar.

Margies3
06-14-2007, 07:19 PM
Why would you expect more from those in ministry? We're all on this journey together, brother.

Do you think that God works in a more mighty way in the life of a minister than He does in the life of a saint?

I know that you are saying that you shouldn't put the pastor up on a pedestal. But by expecting more of him than you would of yourself or some other saint, you really are.

No wonder saints end up hurt. These men are just as human as anyone else. Trying just as hard. But just as fallible. That's unfair pressure to put on them - expecting more of them than of other saints.

Sis.....
That line depends on how folks who are in church were brought up... most in UC circles and some moderates the voice of the Preacher is God... and when he or any other preacher falters or fails they are never looked at as the same..

RR, that was my point exactly. I, too, was brought up on that kind of hogwash. The pastor is NOT God. He is as fallible as any of the rest of us and it is grossly unfair of anyone to expect him to be perfect.

The danger in believing that the pastor is more perfect than the rest of us is that our eyes get fixed on the pastor as our guide then. We need to be looking to JESUS. Not to any man! The pastor is our shepherd. He does not own the ranch. God owns the ranch :)

Margies3
06-14-2007, 07:28 PM
By the way, please don't take the above post as a 'pastor bash'. It was not meant that way at all.

In fact, my point is that we, as saints in the church, can sometimes put pressure on the pastor that we should not. If GOD puts pressure on him personally to measure up to a different standard, that's between him and God. But we, as saints, need to understand from the beginning that even tho the pastor will do the very best that he can do (as we should also!), he will fall at times. It is not the end of the world when he stumbles. ALL of us stumble.

I think that we need to treat pastors with the same kind of love and compassion and respect as we would anyone else.

TalkLady
06-14-2007, 07:31 PM
A minister should be honest at all times.
No lying.
No stealing.
No misrepresenting facts.

If only that were true!!!!!!!!

TrueNorth
06-14-2007, 08:42 PM
A minister should be honest at all times.
No lying.
No stealing.
No misrepresenting facts.

If only that were true!!!!!!!!

In most cases it is!

Coffee99
06-14-2007, 08:54 PM
I'm not a minister, but may I add my two cents?

1. Must have a bottomless well of patience and humor;
2. Must be willing to give up sleep;
3. Must be able to eat poorly cooked food and maintain a neutral expression;
4. Should have an understanding wife who understands the demands on a minister in terms of time, etc. and one who does not create drama in a church
5. Must have a hobby that allows him to get in a quiet place to talk to God and regain his senses -- like fishing
6. Must have communication skills
7. Must be willing to do so much without a thank you
8. Must be able to be a minister 100% of the time even when being forced to have a second job to support his family
9. Must have leadership abilities
10.Must have courage

EA
10-21-2009, 10:50 AM
I agree.

*AQuietPlace*
10-21-2009, 10:53 AM
Must be able to take criticism without becoming personally devastated by it. Because ministers get criticized a lot.

pelathais
10-21-2009, 10:53 AM
I agree.
Dude! You crack me up! I love it! And you too!

Keep fighting the good fight against the forces or malaise!

coadie
10-21-2009, 02:45 PM
I would wonder where you got the stat that only 50% of pastors are full time.

Also.. is that a national stat... an org stat...

Ok. I was told there are hundreds in just Texas alone in the UPC that hold a license and are not the church leading pastor.

coadie
10-21-2009, 02:51 PM
A minister should be honest at all times.
No lying.
No stealing.
No misrepresenting facts.

If only that were true!!!!!!!!


Honesty will get you in trouble. Sister Mable, that dress just looks awful on you. And it looks like you need to fellow ship less with the Blue Bell family.