Are Men in Pentecost threatened by INTELLIGENT WOMEN?

[SDG]

Women earned 45.1 percent of bachelor's degrees in business in 1984-5 and 50 percent by 2001-2, up from only 9.1 percent in 1970-1."


It is fairly well known that women today outnumber men in American colleges. In 2003, there were 1.35 females for every male who graduated from a four-year college and 1.3 females for every male undergraduate. That contrasts with 1960, when there were 1.6 males for every female graduating from a U.S. four-year college and 1.55 males for every female undergraduate.

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With more and more women now dominating the college scene in our society, we are seeing the glass ceiling slowly but surely crumble in business, gov't and professional sectors.

Women have always been as intelligent as men but most of us recognize that there has been a change in paradigms that are centuries old.

Now enter the Church. Among most Pentecostal circles women have traditionally not held many positions of leadership, nor have they been as vocal as they are today.

One only needs to look at the number of licensed ministers in some fellowships to see that there is still a disproportionate balance.

Although, I don't think this will change anytime soon ... nor am I advocating a crusade .... it is somewhat troubling to me.

however, my question is as follows ... have some men allowed their view of church hierarchy to pervade in their attitudes towards intelligent, independent-thinking and vocal women in other venues ?

... let's say ... like on an online forum or other secular activities?

Are they threatened to see that males aren't always in charge or the purveyors of higher thought?

What say ye?

[Trouvere]

trouble maker.:poloroid

[Felicity]

I think most men appreciate and respect intelligence.

Intelligence isn't the problem in my opinion but it might be pushy, unsubmissive women who rebel, question and test authority and leadership.

[Digging4Truth]

Not this apostolic man.

But one can be intelligent without being a smart-alec.

[SDG]

trouble maker.:poloroid

Who me? I for one love an intelligent independent thinking woman. It's now a pre-requisite for any woman I might date in the future.

[Pragmatist]

As an educated, intelligent woman, I say no. But, I have no desire to be in a leadership position.

[Chan]

Women earned 45.1 percent of bachelor's degrees in business in 1984-5 and 50 percent by 2001-2, up from only 9.1 percent in 1970-1."


It is fairly well known that women today outnumber men in American colleges. In 2003, there were 1.35 females for every male who graduated from a four-year college and 1.3 females for every male undergraduate. That contrasts with 1960, when there were 1.6 males for every female graduating from a U.S. four-year college and 1.55 males for every female undergraduate.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

With more and more women now dominating the college scene in our society, we are seeing the glass ceiling slowly by surely crumble in the business, gov't and professional sectors.


Women have always been as intelligent as men but most of us recognize that there has been a change in paradigms that are centuries old.


Now enter the Church. Among most Pentecostal circles women have traditionally not held many positions of leadership and have not been as vocal as they are today.

One only needs to look at the number of licensed ministers in some fellowships to see that there is still a disproportionate balance.

Although, I don't think this will change anytime soon ... nor am I advocating a crusade .... it is somewhat troubling to me.

however, my question is as follows ... have some men allowed their view of church hierarchy to pervade in their attitudes towards intelligent, independent-thinking and vocal women in other venues.

... let's say like on an online forum or other secular activities?

Are they threatened to see that males aren't always in charge or the purveyors of higher thought?

What say ye?It really doesn't matter how educated or intelligent (the two are not the same thing) a woman may be: God does not call women to leadership in the Church (elders and the "five-fold ministry").

[mizpeh]

I think most men appreciate and respect intelligence.

Intelligence isn't the problem in my opinion but it might be pushy, unsubmissive women who rebel, question and test authority and leadership.

Felicity,

I think you have mastered the fine art of expressing the wisdom God has given you without making a man feel inferior. :thumbsup

[SDG]

I think most men appreciate and respect intelligence.

Intelligence isn't the problem in my opinion but it might be pushy, unsubmissive women who rebel, question and test authority and leadership.

But does that really apply here on this forum ? Do woman have to demonstrate submissiveness to the males in their online discussions?

[SDG]

It really doesn't matter how educated or intelligent (the two are not the same thing) a woman may be: God does not call women to leadership in the Church (elders and the "five-fold ministry").

Hogwash.

[Pragmatist]

But does that really apply here on this forum ? Do woman have to demonstrate submissiveness to the males in their online discussions?

No, submission is to my husband, not to any male that exists.

[Ronzo]

Hogwash.


To revive one of Rico's favorite awards...


http://www.walrusproductions.com/images/hogwashL.jpg

[Nahum]

Daniel, your question supposes a superior intelligence of women. It's typical liberal psychobabble. The implication is not that women are equal or that SOME women are smarter than some men - it is that all women are smarter than all men.

This worldview is pushed in every public school system in America, so I am not surprised that you - a liberal NEA member - would espouse it. It is also played out in media at every level of worldview ministry. Males are always portrayed as stupid (especially white middle-aged males), lazy and fat while women are always portrayed as super-intelligent, super-strong, and hyper-worker bees. This all leads to a feminization of the American male.

Add to this the Hollywood worldview that kids are soooo much smarter than their parents and that parents need to ask their kid's permission to enter their room and you have a toxic cocktail of preflood Noahic perversion.

[Whole Hearted]

I respect a woman that know her place.:lol

[mfblume]

No, submission is to my husband, not to any male that exists.

EXACTLY.

[Hoovie]

I married my wife in part because she was intelligent.

As to the church leadership question.... Pentecostals have always been much more accepting of women in ministry than most denominations. Try getting a perspective from the two largest denoms in the US/World - Catholic and SBC.

[Nahum]

BTW, I can't stand ditsy women as much as I can't stand a bossy old biddy that wants to rule the world.

[Newman]

I think most men appreciate and respect intelligence.

Intelligence isn't the problem in my opinion but it might be pushy, unsubmissive women who rebel, question and test authority and leadership.

No Comment. :killinme

[warrior81680]

C'mon, Dan, give it a rest, already.

Any intelligent, God fearing man respects and encourages an intelligent woman's contribution to whatever the activity might be.

The men who do not are not worthy of discussion.

End of discussion, IMO.

[Felicity]

But does that really apply here on this forum ? Do woman have to demonstrate submissiveness to the males in their online discussions?Huh? You're limiting the post you made and the question you asked to a discussion forum? I thought you were referring to a much larger scope than this forum. Goodness! :)

You think men on this forum are intimidated by intelligent women?!

Mais non, monsieur! Absolutely not.

[Nahum]

I married my wife in part because she was intelligent.

As to the church leadership question.... Pentecostals have always been much more accepting of women in ministry than most denominations. Try getting a perspective from the two largest denoms in the US/World - Catholic and SBC.

Exactly.

But don't confuse Daniel with the facts. It's much more fun to misrepresent truth.

[SDG]

Daniel, your question supposes a superior intelligence of women. It's typical liberal psychobabble. The implication is not that women are equal or that SOME women are smarter than some men - it is that all women are smarter than all men.

This worldview is pushed in every public school system in America, so I am not surprised that you - a liberal NEA member - would espouse it. It is also played out in media at every level of worldview ministry. Males are always portrayed as stupid (especially white middle-aged males), lazy and fat while women are always portrayed as super-intelligent, super-strong, and hyper-worker bees. This all leads to a feminization of the American male.

Add to this the Hollywood worldview that kids are soooo much smarter than their parents and that parents need to ask their kid's permission to enter their room and you have a toxic cocktail of preflood Noahic perversion.

Once again you're true colors have shown themselves ... whenever this topic comes up ... you buckle ... in a crazed-induced diatribe ...

Did you even read when I stated in my original post that women are as intelligent as men ... does that not process???

My question is whether or not Apostolic men feel threatened when confronted w/ a member of the opposite sex that might be as intelligent, or even smarter than they are in other non-spiritual activities?

Keep your eye on the ball, PP?

[Nahum]

Huh? You're limiting the post you made and the question you asked to a discussion forum? I thought you were referring to a much larger scope than this forum. Goodness! :)

You think men on this forum are intimidated by intelligent women?!

Mais non, monsieur! Absolutely not.

Are women on this forum intimidated by intelligent men?


Hmmmm

[mizpeh]

BTW, I can't stand ditsy women as much as I can't stand a bossy old biddy that wants to rule the world.

I can say the same of chauvanistic and dictatorial men.

[SDG]

Huh? You're limiting the post you made and the question you asked to a discussion forum? I thought you were referring to a much larger scope than this forum. Goodness! :)

You think men on this forum are intimidated by intelligent women?!

Mais non, monsieur! Absolutely not.

Oh no ... I was just using it as an example we all could relate to ...

[Nahum]

Once again you're true colors have shown themselves ... whenever this topic comes up ... you buckle ... in a crazed-induced diatribe ...

Did you even read when I stated in my original post that women are as intelligent as men ... does that not process???

My question is whether or not Apostolic men feel threatened when confronted w/ a member of the opposite sex that might be as intelligent, or even smarter than they are in other non-spiritual activities?

Keep your eye on the ball, PP?

Here's the deal Dan-o.

Your original post was unlearned and typical.

Why not ask if women are threatened by intelligent men?

[Nahum]

I can say the same of chauvanistic and dictatorial men.


Absolutely.

[Felicity]

Oh no ... I was just using it as an example we all could relate to ...Well then, my post (and my opinion) stands exactly as it was written.

Of course there's lots of different perspectives and the question as you presented it can be addressed from different angles. :thumbsup

[Hoovie]

Another troubling assumption is equating a college degree with success and/or intellect.

Not always so. My family was utlra conservative - shunned college for females and males and there are two (possibly three) of my siblings who run multi million dollar companies.

[Felicity]

Another troubling assumption is equating a college degree with success and/or intellect.

Not always so. My family was utlra conservative - shunned college for females and males and there are two (possibly three) of my siblings who run multi million dollar companies.
You are SO right Stephen. :highfive

[SDG]

Another troubling assumption is equating a college degree with success and/or intellect.

Not always so. My family was utlra conservative - shunned college for females and males and there are two (possibly three) of my siblings who run multi million dollar companies.

I don't think that assumption has been made ... although I did present data to show the obvious ... more women today are succeeding in higher education because the opportunity has been given to do so ...

I did say women have always been as intelligent ... which takes into account the way things used to be.

[Chan]

I don't think that assumption has been made ... although I did present data to show the obvious ... more women today are succeeding in higher education because the opportunity has been given to do so ...

I did say women have always been as intelligent ... which takes into account the way things used to be.And none of this is the least bit relevant to the Church because God does not call women to leadership (elders and the "five-fold ministry") in the Church. God certainly uses women in other ways in the Church (and, no, I don't mean in the kitchen or the nursery) but does not use them in leading the Church.

[SDG]

And none of this is the least bit relevant to the Church because God does not call women to leadership (elders and the "five-fold ministry") in the Church. God certainly uses women in other ways in the Church (and, no, I don't mean in the kitchen or the nursery) but does not use them in leading the Church.

Although, I disagree w/ your meager interpretation of scripture on that topic ... this is not the impetus of my question ... I do not care to discuss leadership in the church ... although we can if you like ....

My question is whether or not our bias towards men leading in the church affects our attitude towards women in other types of activities ...

[Sheltiedad]

I think in Pentecost, that they just prefer people not ask too many questions...

if you ask too many questions, or heaven forbid, don't accept some of the pat answers to serious questions then that is frowned upon... and people who are more intelligent are by nature going to ask more questions. It does seem a little more audacious when it is a woman asking the questions than a man... if a man asks the questions, he is a rebel... if a woman asks the questions she doesn't know her place....

I thank God that I found a woman that will ask me the hard questions, and stand by my side in ALL Things in our marriage... we make decisions together and submit to each other. If this isn't biblical, I really don't care. It works for us...

[Felicity]

Are women on this forum intimidated by intelligent men?


HmmmmDo I dare answer this question? LOL.

I'll just answer for myself. (I better not try and answer for others. ;)) The answer is "no".

Some women don't take much to being questioned or having their ideas and opinions and beliefs challenged by anybody. Some women have major "men" issues.

But then the converse can be equally true as well.

[Chan]

Although, I disagree w/ your meager interpretation of scripture on that topic ... this is not the impetus of my question ... I do not care to discuss leadership in the church ... although we can if you like ....

My question is whether or not our bias towards men leading in the church affects our attitude towards women in other types of activities ...Your use of the word "bias" in that context is inappropriate. GOD decides who gets to lead and who doesn't in the Church. But to answer your question, I think it depends on the individual man whether he actually extends God's established order in the Church outside the church. For me, I really don't care what this wicked world does with regard to men and women. However, this world's utter perversity in trying to erase the distinctions between male and female and to paint males as being contemptible creatures in need of a woman's superior character is a rejection of God's created design for male and female and, as such, is treason against God. Any Christian who tries to bring the world's attitudes and values into the Church is also committing treason against God.

[SDG]

I think in Pentecost, that they just prefer people not ask too many questions...

if you ask too many questions, or heaven forbid, don't accept some of the pat answers to serious questions then that is frowned upon... and people who are more intelligent are by nature going to ask more questions. It does seem a little more audacious when it is a woman asking the questions than a man... if a man asks the questions, he is a rebel... if a woman asks the questions she doesn't know her place....

I thank God that I found a woman that will ask me the hard questions, and stand by my side in ALL Things in our marriage... we make decisions together and submit to each other. If this isn't biblical, I really don't care. It works for us...

Very fair assessment ... SD.

[Thumper]

Women earned 45.1 percent of bachelor's degrees in business in 1984-5 and 50 percent by 2001-2, up from only 9.1 percent in 1970-1."


It is fairly well known that women today outnumber men in American colleges. In 2003, there were 1.35 females for every male who graduated from a four-year college and 1.3 females for every male undergraduate. That contrasts with 1960, when there were 1.6 males for every female graduating from a U.S. four-year college and 1.55 males for every female undergraduate.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

With more and more women now dominating the college scene in our society, we are seeing the glass ceiling slowly by surely crumble in business, gov't and professional sectors.

Women have always been as intelligent as men but most of us recognize that there has been a change in paradigms that are centuries old.

Now enter the Church. Among most Pentecostal circles women have traditionally not held many positions of leadership and have not been as vocal as they are today.

One only needs to look at the number of licensed ministers in some fellowships to see that there is still a disproportionate balance.

Although, I don't think this will change anytime soon ... nor am I advocating a crusade .... it is somewhat troubling to me.

however, my question is as follows ... have some men allowed their view of church hierarchy to pervade in their attitudes towards intelligent, independent-thinking and vocal women in other venues ?

... let's say ... like on an online forum or other secular activities?

Are they threatened to see that males aren't always in charge or the purveyors of higher thought?

What say ye?

Tell us Dan,

Why are you intimidated by intelligent women.

[SDG]

Tell us Dan,

Why are you intimidated by intelligent women.

I find any intelligent person, male or female, to be challenging, thought-provoking and admirable as intelligence is a God-given gift.

How 'bout you Thumps?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Women earned 45.1 percent of bachelor's degrees in business in 1984-5 and 50 percent by 2001-2, up from only 9.1 percent in 1970-1."


It is fairly well known that women today outnumber men in American colleges. In 2003, there were 1.35 females for every male who graduated from a four-year college and 1.3 females for every male undergraduate. That contrasts with 1960, when there were 1.6 males for every female graduating from a U.S. four-year college and 1.55 males for every female undergraduate.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

With more and more women now dominating the college scene in our society, we are seeing the glass ceiling slowly by surely crumble in the business, gov't and professional sectors.


Women have always been as intelligent as men but most of us recognize that there has been a change in paradigms that are centuries old.

Now enter the Church. Among most Pentecostal circles women have traditionally not held many positions of leadership and have not been as vocal as they are today.

One only needs to look at the number of licensed ministers in some fellowships to see that there is still a disproportionate balance.

Although, I don't think this will change anytime soon ... nor am I advocating a crusade .... it is somewhat troubling to me.

however, my question is as follows ... have some men allowed their view of church hierarchy to pervade in their attitudes towards intelligent, independent-thinking and vocal women in other venues. ?

... let's say like on an online forum or other secular activities?

Are they threatened to see that males aren't always in charge or the purveyors of higher thought?

What say ye?


Women in churches are about 10 to 1 keep up the good work Brothers.

Effeminate young men in churches (some who become "music ministers") are due to all the strong vocal women who shoot for the male roles in the church.

Is this the woman's fault? I would say no, because of all those "men" who are fast asleep on the pews. I mean men who are literally asleep who are nodding out in morning services. They look like heroin junkies nodding after they spiked up.

So guess what the women have to pick up the ball and run with it because they want their children to live for God. Their husbands are not really too heavily into the Christian scene as much as the wife, and after all the church they attend is pretty much dominated by one man and his wife and children, so there's not much hope for a guy going anywhere in that system.

Women tend to grow like weeds in that kind of religious system.

Men have to have battle and conquest, hunter, and gatherer, they follow well someone who has their best interest in mind. They will roar into any situation as long as it's a group effort and that everyone will benefit from the final goal.

If men do their jobs the women will be more than happy to do theirs.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Another troubling assumption is equating a college degree with success and/or intellect.

Not always so. My family was utlra conservative - shunned college for females and males and there are two (possibly three) of my siblings who run multi million dollar companies.

So graduation from Dummies R Us makes one feel superior over intelligent women?

:search

[Newman]

Women in churches are about 10 to 1 keep up the good work Brothers.

Effeminate young men in churches (some who become "music ministers") are due to all the strong vocal women who shoot for the male roles in the church.

Is this the woman's fault? I would say no, because of all those "men" who are fast asleep on the pews. I mean men who are literally asleep who are nodding out in morning services. They look like heroin junkies nodding after they spiked up.

So guess what the women have to pick up the ball and run with it because they want their children to live for God. Their husbands are not really too heavily into the Christian scene as much as the wife, and after all the church they attend is pretty much dominated by one man and his wife and children, so there's not much hope for a guy going anywhere in that system.

Women tend to grow like weeds in that kind of religious system.

Men have to have battle and conquest, hunter, and gatherer, they follow well someone who has their best interest in mind. They will roar into any situation as long as it's a group effort and that everyone will benefit from the final goal.

If men do their jobs the women will be more than happy to do theirs.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

How do these conquesting men benefit from the final goal if they had to follow a pastor instead of leading? Am I misunderstanding your post?

And were statistics plucked out of thin air or from your church? I assure you that mine has lots of live men. If there is a statistical difference in attendance; it would only be due to man's shorter life expectency so far as I can tell. Nothing to do with weeds. :cool:

[Hoovie]

I don't think that assumption has been made ... although I did present data to show the obvious ... more women today are succeeding in higher education because the opportunity has been given to do so ...

I did say women have always been as intelligent ... which takes into account the way things used to be.


Exactly, I don't think most here are questioning that at all, and more degrees does little or nothing to validate that which needs no validation.

[OP_Carl]

Your use of the word "bias" in that context is inappropriate. GOD decides who gets to lead and who doesn't in the Church. But to answer your question, I think it depends on the individual man whether he actually extends God's established order in the Church outside the church. For me, I really don't care what this wicked world does with regard to men and women. However, this world's utter perversity in trying to erase the distinctions between male and female and to paint males as being contemptible creatures in need of a woman's superior character is a rejection of God's created design for male and female and, as such, is treason against God. Any Christian who tries to bring the world's attitudes and values into the Church is also committing treason against God.

It's funny how frequently "God decides" to succeed an outgoing pastor with the pastor's son. But let us move on . . .

It's difficult for most people to address the original question objectively, because we all are inundated in this feminized society. We substitute fairness for righteousness in many situations, not just this one.

As far as transference goes, when I am at work I am just as fearful of offending a female as I am of offending a minority. Nowadays the grounds for dismissal are subjective, not objective. This is dangerous and a horrendous abuse of the concept of justice. The system has the aspiring middle-class white guy in the gunsights and pinned to the wall.

When I am in the workplace, I don't view women in management as an affront to me, to the natural order, or to all that is holy. I view them as a minefield in the path of my career, and I walk on pins and needles around them.

Church is the one place where I feel I can relax in the presence of women. In this context, intelligent women are far more desirable for conversation. I am uncomfortable with the concept of women pastors and preachers, but I am inexperienced here. My discomfort comes from my knowledge of human nature.

Missing from the consiousness of many on this topic is an understanding of the nature of intelligence. I can be of superior intelligence in one realm of human experience, and of inferior intelligence in other areas. Everybody is like this. Strengths and weaknesses aren't proof of flaws.

I value, employ, and cultivate in my wife the areas in which she is more intelligent than me. I believe she has learned to reciprocate.

In a similar fashion, I can find aspects of powerful and intelligent women to value and leverage in the working relationship.

At the end of the day, the career women have my pity. I believe that they have been sold a bill of goods by the feminists about what will make them feel fulfilled in life.

On a side note, the figures cited about college graduation are often included in reports about how women earn less money. Don't be deceived by such things. Women can be and are paid the same wage for the same jobs as men. The difference is in the selection of jobs. Overall, women are more likely to select jobs with less risk, less travel, fewer hours, and less pressure. This trend is amplified when the working woman has children, an event that in itself can affect the aggregate earnings of women. Working women are more frequently the parent that takes time off when the baby is new, or when the kids are sick, etc.

[Hoovie]

Although, I disagree w/ your meager interpretation of scripture on that topic ... this is not the impetus of my question ... I do not care to discuss leadership in the church ... although we can if you like ....

My question is whether or not our bias towards men leading in the church affects our attitude towards women in other types of activities ...

OK for me this is very easy... NO! (I agree with Chan that "Bias" is a poor choice here)

[Hoovie]

So graduation from Dummies R Us makes one feel superior over intelligent women?

:search

Guess I am not following you. Dummies do not run and own multi million $ companies.

My point was that men and women are intelligent and college is not required to validate that.

BTW I am 100% in favor of higher education.

[SDG]

Missing from the consiousness of many on this topic is an understanding of the nature of intelligence. I can be of superior intelligence in one realm of human experience, and of inferior intelligence in other areas. Everybody is like this. Strengths and weaknesses aren't proof of flaws.You have brought a very important topic ... Howard Gardner has done research to this end ... and has formulated a theory called Multiple Intelligences ... We often think that someone who is articulate or "book smart" are the benchmarks of intelligence ... but God knows ... the plumber is way more intelligent than I am in his human experience and giftedness.

More on Gardner's Multiple Intelligences - [Note: We all possess these intelligences- however some are stronger in us than others] :

Linguistic

Verbal-linguistic intelligence has to do with words (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Words), spoken or written. People with verbal-linguistic intelligence display a facility with words and languages. They are typically good at reading (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_%28activity%29), writing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Writing), telling stories, and memorizing words and dates. They tend to learn best by reading, taking notes, and listening to lectures, and via discussion and debate. They are also frequently skilled at explaining, teaching, and oration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oratory) or persuasive speaking. Those with verbal-linguistic intelligence learn foreign languages very easily as they have high verbal memory and recall and an ability to understand and manipulate syntax and structure.
Careers which suit those with this intelligence include writers, lawyers, philosophers, politicians, and teachers.

Logical-mathematical

This area has to do with logic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic), abstractions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstractions), inductive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_reasoning) and deductive reasoning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deductive_reasoning), and numbers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number). While it is often assumed that those with this intelligence naturally excel in mathematics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematics), chess (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess), computer programming (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_programming), and other logical or numerical activities, a more accurate definition places emphasis less on traditional mathematical ability and more reasoning capabilities, abstract pattern recognition, scientific thinking and investigation, and the ability to perform complex calculations.


Those who automatically correlate this intelligence with skill in mathematics criticize this intelligence by arguing that logical ability is often more strongly correlated with verbal rather than mathematical ability: for example, the old Analytic section of the Graduate Record Examination (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graduate_Record_Examination) correlated more strongly with the Verbal section than the Mathematical. One possibility is that formal, symbolic logic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolic_logic), and strict logic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strict_logic) games are under the command of mathematical intelligence, while skills such as fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy) hunting, argument construction, etc. are under the command of verbal intelligence.
Careers which suit those with this intelligence include scientists, mathematicians, doctors, and economists.

Spatial

Main article: Spatial reasoning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spatial_reasoning)
This area has to do with vision and spatial judgment. People with strong visual-spatial intelligence are typically very good at visualizing and mentally manipulating objects. They have a strong visual memory and are often artistically inclined. Those with visual-spatial intelligence also generally have a very good sense of direction and may also have very good hand-eye coordination, although this is normally seen as a characteristic of the bodily-kinesthetic intelligence.

Some critics [4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_multiple_intelligences#_note-3) point out the high correlation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation) between the spatial and mathematical abilities, which seems to disprove the clear separation of the intelligences as Gardner theorizes. Since solving a mathematical problem involves visually manipulating symbols such as numbers, spatial intelligence is involved. A thorough understanding of the two intelligences precludes this criticism, however, as the two intelligences do not precisely conform to the definitions of visual and mathematical abilities. Although they may share certain characteristics, they are easily distinguished by several factors, and there are many with strong logical-mathematical intelligence and weak visual-spatial, and vice versa.

Careers which suit those with this intelligence include artists, engineers, and architects.

Bodily-kinesthetic

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/8e/Ben_underwood.jpg/150px-Ben_underwood.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ben_underwood.jpg) http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ben_underwood.jpg)
Despite being blind, Ben Underwood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Underwood) exhibits exceptional skill and coordination.[1] (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/07/19/earlyshow/main1817689.shtm)


This area has to do with movement and doing. In this category, people are generally adept at physical activities such as sports (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports) or dance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dance) and often prefer activities which utilize movement. They may enjoy acting or performing, and in general they are good at building and making things. They often learn best by physically doing something, rather than reading or hearing about it. Those with strong bodily-kinesthetic intelligence seem to use what might be termed muscle memory; i.e., they remember things through their body, rather than through words (verbal memory) or images (visual memory). It requires the skills and dexterity for fine motor movements such as those required for dancing, athletics, surgery, craftmaking,etc.

Careers which suit those with this intelligence include athletes, dancers, actors, comedians, builders, and artisans.

[continued ...]

[SDG]

Musical

This area has to do with rhythm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhythm), music, and hearing. Those who have a high level of musical-rhythmic intelligence display greater sensitivity to sounds, rhythms, tones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone), and music. They normally have good pitch and may even have absolute pitch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_pitch), and are able to sing, play musical instruments, and compose music. Since there is a strong aural component to this intelligence, those who are strongest in it may learn best via lecture. In addition, they will often use songs or rhythms to learn and memorize information, and may work best with music playing.
Careers which suit those with this intelligence include musicians, singers, conductors, and composers.

Naturalistic

This area has to do with nature, nurturing, and classification. This is the newest of the intelligences and is not as widely accepted as the original seven. Those with it are said to have greater sensitivity to nature and their place within it, the ability to nurture and grow things, and greater ease in caring for, taming, and interacting with animals. They are also good at recognizing and classifying different species.

The theory behind this intelligence is often criticized, much like the spiritual or existential intelligence (see below), as it is seen by many is not indicative of an intelligence but rather an interest.
Careers which suit those with this intelligence include scientists, naturalists, conservationists, gardeners, and farmers.

Interpersonal

This area has to do with interaction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interaction) with others. People in this category are usually extroverts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extroversion) and are characterized by their sensitivity to others' moods, feelings, temperaments, and motivations and their ability to cooperate in order to work as part of a group. They communicate effectively and empathize (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy) easily with others, and may be either leaders or followers. They typically learn best by working with others and often enjoy discussion and debate.

Careers which suit those with this intelligence include politicians, managers, social workers, and diplomats.

Intrapersonal

This area has to do with oneself. Those who are strongest in this intelligence are typically introverts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introversion) and prefer to work alone. They are usually highly self-aware and capable of understanding their own emotions, goals, and motivations. They often have an affinity for thought-based pursuits such as philosophy. They learn best when allowed to concentrate on the subject by themselves. There is often a high level of perfectionism associated with this intelligence.
Careers which suit those with this intelligence include philosophers, psychologists, theologians, and writers.

Other Intelligences

Other intelligences have been suggested or explored by Gardner and his colleagues, including spiritual, existential and moral intelligence. Gardner excluded spiritual intelligence due to its failure to meet a number of his criteria. Existential intelligence (the capacity to raise and reflect on philosophical questions about life, death, and ultimate realities) meets most of the criteria with the exception of identifiable areas of the brain that specialize for this faculty.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_multiple_intelligences#_note-4) Moral capacities were excluded because they are normative rather than descriptive

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_multiple_intelligences

[Hoovie]

There are certain occupations where women earn far more than men and even dominate the industry.

Consider, the nursing field or Real Estate agencies.

[OP_Carl]

There are certain occupations where women earn far more than men and even dominate the industry.

Consider, the nursing field or Real Estate agencies.

In both of these fields, women use to their advantage over men their innate superiority in emotional intelligence and nurturing others.

Real estate agents know that homes are chosen almost exclusively by the emotions of the woman involved in the purchase. Women know other women, and the gifted agent figures out how to emotionally connect with the woman home buyer, and then to emotionally connect the woman buyer to the most expensive home available in or just beyond the price range.

[Evang.Benincasa]

How do these conquesting men benefit from the final goal if they had to follow a pastor instead of leading? Am I misunderstanding your post?

Newman I sure didn't say what you said I said. Newman one man wears all the hats and those who sit on the pews may get to try a couple. Men need to be in the forefront taking care of the business. If there is a women pastor then watch out!!! Those people are in big trouble!


And were statistics plucked out of thin air or from your church? I assure you that mine has lots of live men. If there is a statistical difference in attendance; it would only be due to man's shorter life expectency so far as I can tell. Nothing to do with weeds. :cool:

Sorry Newman I doubt you can gauge what's going on in your church with the rest of Christianity in America. You would then proceed to tell us that where you attend church is Zion and that the preaching is from a burning bush that appears in the form of a man. Sister, look it up and see who is doing what in religion at this time. I'm just not talking about Pentecost; I am talking about all forms of Christianity and other religions.

Pretty much it's the women in the forefront.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Evang.Benincasa]

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1848378/posts

Newman I thought I posted this to you a while back on FCF. I hope you read it this time.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Newman]

Newman I sure didn't say what you said I said. Newman one man wears all the hats and those who sit on the pews may get to try a couple. Men need to be in the forefront taking care of the business. If there is a women pastor then watch out!!! Those people are in big trouble!


Sorry Newman I doubt you can gauge what's going on in your church with the rest of Christianity in America. You would then proceed to tell us that where you attend church is Zion and that the preaching is from a burning bush that appears in the form of a man. Sister, look it up and see who is doing what in religion at this time. I'm just not talking about Pentecost; I am talking about all forms of Christianity and other religions.

Pretty much it's the women in the forefront.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

EB- Your theories are conflicting. Your original post spoke of a single male pastor and his family. Now you throw in a woman pastor. In both cases you suggest that the men need to be leading...

But how do we get around too many Indian Chiefs and not enough Indians if men can't serve God without somehow leading in church?

Sorry but I didn't find the 1 male for 10 female stats in the article. It showed that generally speaking there are more women participating in religious activities than men. But you are still making a leap without showing evidence to assume that the much smaller margins cited then what was stated in your post) is attributable to women leading.

Which is a odd theory in and of itself given the reality.... How many minister licenses are there among the Apostolic faith? How many ministers are women? :girlpopcorn

[Newman]

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1848378/posts

Newman I thought I posted this to you a while back on FCF. I hope you read it this time.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Interesting article but I don't know why you think it helps make your point. ;)

[Cotton Mather]

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1848378/posts

Newman I thought I posted this to you a while back on FCF. I hope you read it this time.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

While men still run most churches, women outnumber them in the pews in Europe, in the , and in . And the absence of males is not of recent origin. Cotton Mather puzzled over it, and medieval preachers claimed women practice their religion far more than men did. But men do not show the same aversion to all churches and religions. The Orthodox seem to have a balance, and Islam and Judaism have a predominantly male membership. Something seems to be creating a barrier between Western Christianity and men. Why is it that men in the west are so little interested in religion and that the men who are interested often do not follow the general pattern of masculinity? Why doesn't religion seem to interest men much, until they reach old age?


It's because females dominate western culture.

[Chan]

It's funny how frequently "God decides" to succeed an outgoing pastor with the pastor's son. But let us move on . . . I don't consider this funny: too many churches are NOT seeking God's direction in such matters!!!!!!!!

It's difficult for most people to address the original question objectively, because we all are inundated in this feminized society. We substitute fairness for righteousness in many situations, not just this one.And to not go along with feminized society is to be a chauvanist, sexist, bigoted, neanderthal in the minds of many. We in the Church need to stop committing treason against God by our trying to conform the Church to 21st century American culture!

As far as transference goes, when I am at work I am just as fearful of offending a female as I am of offending a minority. Nowadays the grounds for dismissal are subjective, not objective. This is dangerous and a horrendous abuse of the concept of justice. The system has the aspiring middle-class white guy in the gunsights and pinned to the wall. I don't know of a time when grounds for dismissal were ever objective.

When I am in the workplace, I don't view women in management as an affront to me, to the natural order, or to all that is holy. I view them as a minefield in the path of my career, and I walk on pins and needles around them.When it comes to management in the workplace, I only see management and not men or women.

Church is the one place where I feel I can relax in the presence of women. In this context, intelligent women are far more desirable for conversation. I am uncomfortable with the concept of women pastors and preachers, but I am inexperienced here. My discomfort comes from my knowledge of human nature. Paul addressed this when he said it was Eve who was deceived and not Adam.

Missing from the consiousness of many on this topic is an understanding of the nature of intelligence. I can be of superior intelligence in one realm of human experience, and of inferior intelligence in other areas. Everybody is like this. Strengths and weaknesses aren't proof of flaws.All my intelligence and a couple of dollars might get me a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

I value, employ, and cultivate in my wife the areas in which she is more intelligent than me. I believe she has learned to reciprocate.There's nothing wrong with that as long as both of you mind your place - the place God has established.

In a similar fashion, I can find aspects of powerful and intelligent women to value and leverage in the working relationship.I guess I don't even think about whether someone in the workplace is male or female.

At the end of the day, the career women have my pity. I believe that they have been sold a bill of goods by the feminists about what will make them feel fulfilled in life.Because feminism is a rebellion against God's created design for women.

On a side note, the figures cited about college graduation are often included in reports about how women earn less money. Don't be deceived by such things. Women can be and are paid the same wage for the same jobs as men. The difference is in the selection of jobs. Overall, women are more likely to select jobs with less risk, less travel, fewer hours, and less pressure. This trend is amplified when the working woman has children, an event that in itself can affect the aggregate earnings of women. Working women are more frequently the parent that takes time off when the baby is new, or when the kids are sick, etc.Yes, it's a feminist lie! The situation where a woman is paid less than a man for THE SAME JOB (assuming the same time in the workplace or the position) was made illegal back in the early 1960s. If women are in such a situation, I expect them to file a lawsuit against the employer for violating the law.

[SDG]

It's because females dominate western culture.

They do .... since when?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Interesting article but I don't know why you think it helps make your point. ;)


And were statistics plucked out of thin air or from your church? I assure you that mine has lots of live men. If there is a statistical difference in attendance; it would only be due to man's shorter life expectency so far as I can tell. Nothing to do with weeds. :cool:

Newman you asked the questions I gave you the answers.

Newman do you attend a UPCI church?

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[OP_Carl]

I don't know of a time when grounds for dismissal were ever objective. I was hastily attempting to compress my thought, here.

It used to be that the occurence of sexual harassment was proven by evidence of the words and deeds of the offender. We have crossed over into new territory lately with cases where harassment is deemed to have occurred based solely on the "feelings" of the "victim" resulting in termination. Offensiveness is so highly subjective that this kind of junk could only fly in a completely immasculated society. So now, a mentally unstable hallucinating ninny can misinterpret words or circumstances and ruin a man's life.

I find the severe shortage of male "victims" in these types of cases to be meaningful.

And I file it in the same category as the other "crimes" in this country where the suspect is no longer treated as innocent until proven guilty. All of this stuff trends in the same direction.

[Chan]

I was hastily attempting to compress my thought, here.

It used to be that the occurence of sexual harassment was proven by evidence of the words and deeds of the offender. We have crossed over into new territory lately with cases where harassment is deemed to have occurred based solely on the "feelings" of the "victim" resulting in termination. Offensiveness is so highly subjective that this kind of junk could only fly in a completely immasculated society. So now, a mentally unstable hallucinating ninny can misinterpret words or circumstances and ruin a man's life.

I find the severe shortage of male "victims" in these types of cases to be meaningful.

And I file it in the same category as the other "crimes" in this country where the suspect is no longer treated as innocent until proven guilty. All of this stuff trends in the same direction.It's only going to get worse.

[OP_Carl]

It's only going to get worse.

And that's the GOOD news!!! :uhoh

The bad news is, we're both optimists!!!!! :faint :killinme

[BrotherEastman]

My wife has a Bachalors degree in urban planning. I barely graduated from high school. I hold a local license within the church, I love my wife even if she has more schooling than me. I am not intimidated by anyone, male or female. I have the utmost respect for anyone who went to college. Why is this a subject? Are there people on this forum that cannot handle the fact that someone might be more educated than they are? Some went to college, some went to school in what we would call "The school of hard knocks" Well, anyway, I just thought that I would add my .02 cents. LOL!

[Rico]

As an educated, intelligent woman, I say no. But, I have no desire to be in a leadership position.

Sister, that has to be one the cutest babies I have seen in the longest time! Why don't you take some pics and start a thread about her? She is as cute and they come. Every time I see that pic I start thinking in baby talk! :lol

[Theophilus]

As to the harassment, it seems rather that the accusation itself is as damaging as a conviction.

However, take note of the recent victory with the La Crosse players. To me, it represents a conclusive case to cite to the contrary.

[BrotherEastman]

Sister, that has to be one the cutest babies I have seen in the longest time! Why don't you take some pics and start a thread about her? She is as cute and they come. Every time I see that pic I start thinking in baby talk! :lol
That's an excellent Idea. I would love to talk about my infant son.

[Rico]

I respect a woman that know her place.:lol

:lol You in trouble now, Brother! :lol

[Theophilus]

Women earned 45.1 percent of bachelor's degrees in business in 1984-5 and 50 percent by 2001-2, up from only 9.1 percent in 1970-1."


It is fairly well known that women today outnumber men in American colleges. In 2003, there were 1.35 females for every male who graduated from a four-year college and 1.3 females for every male undergraduate. That contrasts with 1960, when there were 1.6 males for every female graduating from a U.S. four-year college and 1.55 males for every female undergraduate.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

With more and more women now dominating the college scene in our society, we are seeing the glass ceiling slowly but surely crumble in business, gov't and professional sectors.

Women have always been as intelligent as men but most of us recognize that there has been a change in paradigms that are centuries old.

Now enter the Church. Among most Pentecostal circles women have traditionally not held many positions of leadership, nor have they been as vocal as they are today.

One only needs to look at the number of licensed ministers in some fellowships to see that there is still a disproportionate balance.

Although, I don't think this will change anytime soon ... nor am I advocating a crusade .... it is somewhat troubling to me.

however, my question is as follows ... have some men allowed their view of church hierarchy to pervade in their attitudes towards intelligent, independent-thinking and vocal women in other venues ?

... let's say ... like on an online forum or other secular activities?

Are they threatened to see that males aren't always in charge or the purveyors of higher thought?

What say ye?


Perhaps some men are effected by intellegent women...what's new about that, ask Adam.

[OP_Carl]

Wow. I would be really interested in reading about such a case. I had no idea one could win a case with such ease. Can you tell me where to look it up?

Here (http://www.findlaw.com.au/article/8872.htm) is an article that highlights some of the struggles that people are having dealing with the subjective nature of offensiveness in a legal setting. You can use terms you find in this article to perform some more searches.

The cases I'm familiar with are not legal cases (not that I know of) but are corporate cases of people receiving reprimands, demotions, or being dismissed due to hypersensitive females in the workplace. Some were sincerely offended, and some were absorbed in the empowerment they felt they had over senior people in the company once they realized just how subjective the guidelines were and how seriously the human resources department takes this topic.

It's ludicrous. It makes me sick.

I'm glad to see that there are some faint cries for the voice of reason to rein this stuff in, at least in the courtroom.

[Newman]

Here (http://www.findlaw.com.au/article/8872.htm) is an article that highlights some of the struggles that people are having dealing with the subjective nature of offensiveness in a legal setting. You can use terms you find in this article to perform some more searches.

The cases I'm familiar with are not legal cases (not that I know of) but are corporate cases of people receiving reprimands, demotions, or being dismissed due to hypersensitive females in the workplace. Some were sincerely offended, and some were absorbed in the empowerment they felt they had over senior people in the company once they realized just how subjective the guidelines were and how seriously the human resources department takes this topic.

It's ludicrous. It makes me sick.

I'm glad to see that there are some faint cries for the voice of reason to rein this stuff in, at least in the courtroom.

Are you aware that this is article appears to be dealing with Australian law not American law?

[Ferd]

I can say the same of chauvanistic and dictatorial men.

then you probably wont like me.

[Ferd]

I try to be condescending and trite where women are concerned.

They just don’t have the mind for thinking.

[Rachel]

I'd agree with whomever said that education doesn't equal intelligence.. Definitely not. I have a BSc and that's wonderful.. My father doesn't have a recognized secular degree but is undoubtedly the most intelligent man I know.

[Subdued]

That's an excellent Idea. I would love to talk about my infant son.

Go for it!! Post pics, too. :)

[BrotherEastman]

Go for it!! Post pics, too. :)
Do you have kids?

[Ferd]

My wife has a Bachalors degree in urban planning. I barely graduated from high school. I hold a local license within the church, I love my wife even if she has more schooling than me. I am not intimidated by anyone, male or female. I have the utmost respect for anyone who went to college. Why is this a subject? Are there people on this forum that cannot handle the fact that someone might be more educated than they are? Some went to college, some went to school in what we would call "The school of hard knocks" Well, anyway, I just thought that I would add my .02 cents. LOL!

this is a subject because proving that traditional Apostolics fear smart women in a world where all lines between the sexes are being erased, gives greater credence to the notion that traditional Apostolics are apostate.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Which is a odd theory in and of itself given the reality.... How many minister licenses are there among the Apostolic faith? How many ministers are women? :girlpopcorn

There's an old boy down in Bebe Arkansas who ordains apostolic women preachers every year. UPCI has no problem with female ministers and pastors.
PAW loves to have female overseers, so Sister Newman it's not an odd theroy. Also my main point is that religion is pretty much mostly populated by a feminine element. The focus is not if they’re intelligent and ignorant, the focus that I was presenting is a feminized religious system that causes problems and not solutions, no matter how smart they are. If a woman were truly intelligent see would in no way take a position of leadership over any man, or a husband. :)

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Rico]

There's an old boy down in Bebe Arkansas who ordains apostolic women preachers every year. UPCI has no problem with female ministers and pastors.
PAW loves to have female overseers, so Sister Newman it's not an odd theroy. Also my main point is that religion is pretty much mostly populated by a feminine element. The focus is not if they’re intelligent and ignorant, the focus that I was presenting is a feminized religious system that causes problems and not solutions, no matter how smart they are. If a woman were truly intelligent see would in no way take a position of leadership over any man, or a husband. :)

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

There is a new show coming to tv this fall you might like. It's called Cavemen! :D

[SDG]

There is a new show coming to tv this fall you might like. It's called Cavemen! :D

Rumor has it Benincasa is a show consultant.

http://www.duncans.tv/images/geico-cavemen-restaurant.jpg

[Rachel]

I think that 'some' men in the church and out are both intimidated by intelligent women.. course some women are intimidated by intelligent men too. I think younger men are possibly more intimidated - simply because some of them are still rather insecure.. not all by a long shot but some.

[pob406]

Yes. I think there are some men that can't see beyond a patriarchal church hierarchy. Maybe they should try tellling a female police officer or female judge to be submissive and stay under subjection:killinme. Oh wait a minute. What about a female IRS auditor:lol? I'd love to be a fly on the wall....






however, my question is as follows ... have some men allowed their view of church hierarchy to pervade in their attitudes towards intelligent, independent-thinking and vocal women in other venues ?

... let's say ... like on an online forum or other secular activities?

Are they threatened to see that males aren't always in charge or the purveyors of higher thought?

What say ye?

[Emma Bontrager]

Yes. I personally try to stay as dumb as possible and am therefore holier and more submissive. :woot

[Hoovie]

Yes. I personally try to stay as dumb as possible and am therefore holier and more submissive. :woot

You should lower yer eyes when a man walks in the room. Those big wide eyes are the devils tool of seduction!

[TalkLady]

I think most men appreciate and respect intelligence.

Intelligence isn't the problem in my opinion but it might be pushy, unsubmissive women who rebel, question and test authority and leadership.

I think that it depends on the area.......Where you live in Canada, you are telling us that is so...I'm not doubting you but it's quite different in some parts of rural America and other parts of the world. QUITE DIFFERENT, Felicity!

[TalkLady]

Yes. I personally try to stay as dumb as possible and am therefore holier and more submissive. :woot

..........I know most of you would disagree but I remember older women telling us girls back years ago to never appear smarter than a guy you want to date. They taught us that it is better not to say the answer, even if you know it - if it would embarrass a male. ............Did it take a lot of relearning to get me down the road of life?













Yep! :killinme

[Praxeas]

Women earned 45.1 percent of bachelor's degrees in business in 1984-5 and 50 percent by 2001-2, up from only 9.1 percent in 1970-1."


It is fairly well known that women today outnumber men in American colleges. In 2003, there were 1.35 females for every male who graduated from a four-year college and 1.3 females for every male undergraduate. That contrasts with 1960, when there were 1.6 males for every female graduating from a U.S. four-year college and 1.55 males for every female undergraduate.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

With more and more women now dominating the college scene in our society, we are seeing the glass ceiling slowly but surely crumble in business, gov't and professional sectors.

Women have always been as intelligent as men but most of us recognize that there has been a change in paradigms that are centuries old.

Now enter the Church. Among most Pentecostal circles women have traditionally not held many positions of leadership, nor have they been as vocal as they are today.

One only needs to look at the number of licensed ministers in some fellowships to see that there is still a disproportionate balance.

Although, I don't think this will change anytime soon ... nor am I advocating a crusade .... it is somewhat troubling to me.

however, my question is as follows ... have some men allowed their view of church hierarchy to pervade in their attitudes towards intelligent, independent-thinking and vocal women in other venues ?

... let's say ... like on an online forum or other secular activities?

Are they threatened to see that males aren't always in charge or the purveyors of higher thought?

What say ye?
Intelligent women make for better dialog IMO

[Ferd]

I try to be condescending and trite where women are concerned.

They just don’t have the mind for thinking.

bUMP

[Mosby48]

I think that it depends on the area.......Where you live in Canada, you are telling us that is so...I'm not doubting you but it's quite different in some parts of rural America and other parts of the world. QUITE DIFFERENT, Felicity!
I think she's correct. In the south, especially Texas there is a lot of male ego to deal with. Then too, there are contradictions such as a Church that readily accepts a female preacher but won't put one on the deacon board. They won't even allow women to take up the offering!! Twenty women and one man on Wednesday night, so only one man takes the offering instead of the normal two.

[TalkLady]

:welcome2

I think you're the first person I have ever seen post the first post..Thus, the welcome!!...Good grief..I am editing this to say, I didn't realize that "Welcome" was so huge! LOL

I think she's correct. In the south, especially Texas there is a lot of male ego to deal with. Then too, there are contradictions such as a Church that readily accepts a female preacher but won't put one on the deacon board. They won't even allow women to take up the offering!! Twenty women and one man on Wednesday night, so only one man takes the offering instead of the normal two.

[Emma Bontrager]

You should lower yer eyes when a man walks in the room. Those big wide eyes are the devils tool of seduction!

Fer sher. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree no matter how English they get.

[Praxeas]

Yes. I personally try to stay as dumb as possible and am therefore holier and more submissive. :woot
Or at least appear that way to boost the man's ego :killinme

[Emma Bontrager]

..........I know most of you would disagree but I remember older women telling us girls back years ago to never appear smarter than a guy you want to date. They taught us that it is better not to say the answer, even if you know it - if it would embarrass a male. ............Did it take a lot of relearning to get me down the road of life?

That's true. It's better to lie to a guy about how smart you really are. It's better to hook 'em first and after the wedding let him find out the truth.

[Emma Bontrager]

Or at least appear that way to boost the man's ego :killinme

Like I said, lie to the guy. That's holier than appearing smart.

[Rachel]

lol - If their ego needs THAT much stroking, I'll pass.

[Felicity]

I think that it depends on the area.......Where you live in Canada, you are telling us that is so...I'm not doubting you but it's quite different in some parts of rural America and other parts of the world. QUITE DIFFERENT, Felicity!I used to visit a friend in my teens who lived in a very rural area. Her daddy was very involved in politics in that area and he loved it when I'd argue politics with hiim.

I grew up in a home where we were never discouraged from thinking for ourselves and expressing our opinions.

I grew up around "traditional" type of men but I wouldn't say any of them were too worried or intimated by intelligent women.

Educated does not equal intelligence in my opinion. And both kinds say and do dumb things in spite of their intelligence and/or education.

Common sense is one of the smartest kinds of intelligence there is. ;) :)

[Theophilus]

I used to visit a friend in my teens who lived in a very rural area. Her daddy was very involved in politics in that area and he loved it when I'd argue politics with hiim.

I grew up in a home where we were never discouraged from thinking for ourselves and expressing our opinions.

I grew up around "traditional" type of men but I wouldn't say any of them were too worried or intimated by intelligent women.

Educated does not equal intelligence in my opinion. And both kinds say and do dumb things in spite of their intelligence and/or education.

Common sense is one of the smartest kinds of intelligence there is. ;) :)


Well said from one of the least threatening of all smarty girls.:poloroid

[Pragmatist]

Sister, that has to be one the cutest babies I have seen in the longest time! Why don't you take some pics and start a thread about her? She is as cute and they come. Every time I see that pic I start thinking in baby talk! :lol

Thank you! Of course, my husband and I think she's the best, but we might be a tad prejudiced. I posted some pics on the Gabby's thread.

[Hoovie]

Are Men in Pentecost threatened by INTELLIGENT WOMEN?

Nope - not this one.

[Felicity]

I think that intelligent men appreciate and recognize intelligent women and intelligent women appreciate and recognize intelligent men and they're not intimidated by one another.

Now, isn't that intelligent? ;) :D

[tamor]

I try to be condescending and trite where women are concerned.

They just don’t have the mind for thinking.


I thought about this.....:thwak

[tamor]

Rumor has it Benincasa is a show consultant.

http://www.duncans.tv/images/geico-cavemen-restaurant.jpg


:toofunny I heard Epley is his partner in crime! :toofunny

[TalkLady]

I used to visit a friend in my teens who lived in a very rural area. Her daddy was very involved in politics in that area and he loved it when I'd argue politics with hiim.

I grew up in a home where we were never discouraged from thinking for ourselves and expressing our opinions.

I grew up around "traditional" type of men but I wouldn't say any of them were too worried or intimated by intelligent women.

Educated does not equal intelligence in my opinion. And both kinds say and do dumb things in spite of their intelligence and/or education.

Common sense is one of the smartest kinds of intelligence there is. ;) :)

This is true, Felicity........Some of the least educated people I know are some of the smartest...However, in order to fare well in this world in 2007 formal education is a requirement in most cases. My husband has a friend who is extremely gifted in mechanical matters and is good with his hands. However, without at least an Associate degree he can't even get a job in the local factory. This is not the case with most factories, but with that one it is. They won't even interview anyone unless the resume contains mention of at least an Associate Degree and they prefer a Bachelor's degree for just working in the factory.

[Felicity]

This is true, Felicity........Some of the least educated people I know are some of the smartest...However, in order to fare well in this world in 2007 formal education is a requirement in most cases. My husband has a friend who is extremely gifted in mechanical matters and is good with his hands. However, without at least an Associate degree he can't even get a job in the local factory. This is not the case with most factories, but with that one it is. They won't even interview anyone unless the resume contains mention of at least an Associate Degree and they prefer a Bachelor's degree for just working in the factory.My point had nothing to do with need/no need for education past highschool.

I have nothing against education.

[Ferd]

I thought about this.....:thwak

finally someone responded. I see it had the desired effect.

[Felicity]

Felicity,

I think you have mastered the fine art of expressing the wisdom God has given you without making a man feel inferior. :thumbsupThanks sis. You're very kind :kittyhug but I don't feel as if I've mastered much of anything. I've never given much attention to it to be honest. I think that most people appreciate being spoken to kindly and respectfully and appreciate a sense of humour as well.

My parents taught us to think before we speak and consider the feelings of the person we're talking to. I.E. "How would you feel if that was said to you and if it was said to you in a hurtful, condemning, sarcastic judgmental way"?

It's something I've always practiced although I have to say I probably haven't always been as careful about that on these forums on a few occasions as I am in "real" life.

[TalkLady]

My point had nothing to do with need/no need for education past highschool.

I have nothing against education.

I didn't think it did, Felicity.........Sorry if that's what you thought I thought. I merely used it to segue into something I had on my mind as I read this thread. I probably should not have quoted your post.

I, too, appreciate your posts and like to read your perspective on matters.

[mizpeh]

Thanks sis. You're very kind :kittyhug but I don't feel as if I've mastered much of anything. I've never given much attention to it to be honest. I think that most people appreciate being spoken to kindly and respectfully and appreciate a sense of humour as well.

My parents taught us to think before we speak and consider the feelings of the person we're talking to. I.E. "How would you feel if that was said to you and if it was said to you in a hurtful, condemning, sarcastic judgmental way"?

It's something I've always practiced although I have to say I probably haven't always been as careful about that on these forums on a few occasions as I am in "real" life.

If you've practiced this saying of your mother, then you are obeying a bunch of the proverbs, the wise counsels of the Lord. Even thought you haven't had to give much attention to it, the principle your mother taught you is scriptural.

The heart of the righteous studieth to answer: but the mouth of the wicked poureth out evil things.

[Evang.Benincasa]

There is a new show coming to tv this fall you might like. It's called Cavemen! :D

Men who like women leadership are looking for more than just a preacher. :)

[Evang.Benincasa]

Rumor has it Benincasa is a show consultant.

http://www.duncans.tv/images/geico-cavemen-restaurant.jpg

looks like two homeless guys from Fort Lauderdale being taken out for a meal paid for by a woman preacher. :)

[Rhoni]

Women earned 45.1 percent of bachelor's degrees in business in 1984-5 and 50 percent by 2001-2, up from only 9.1 percent in 1970-1."


It is fairly well known that women today outnumber men in American colleges. In 2003, there were 1.35 females for every male who graduated from a four-year college and 1.3 females for every male undergraduate. That contrasts with 1960, when there were 1.6 males for every female graduating from a U.S. four-year college and 1.55 males for every female undergraduate.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

With more and more women now dominating the college scene in our society, we are seeing the glass ceiling slowly but surely crumble in business, gov't and professional sectors.

Women have always been as intelligent as men but most of us recognize that there has been a change in paradigms that are centuries old.

Now enter the Church. Among most Pentecostal circles women have traditionally not held many positions of leadership, nor have they been as vocal as they are today.

One only needs to look at the number of licensed ministers in some fellowships to see that there is still a disproportionate balance.

Although, I don't think this will change anytime soon ... nor am I advocating a crusade .... it is somewhat troubling to me.

however, my question is as follows ... have some men allowed their view of church hierarchy to pervade in their attitudes towards intelligent, independent-thinking and vocal women in other venues ?

... let's say ... like on an online forum or other secular activities?

Are they threatened to see that males aren't always in charge or the purveyors of higher thought?

What say ye?


Women have always been as intelligent as men and many more so;)! Are they intimidated, excuse me...threatened was the word you used, by intelligent women in Apostolic circles and on this forum...of course:girlpopcorn

[Felicity]

I didn't think it did, Felicity.........Sorry if that's what you thought I thought. I merely used it to segue into something I had on my mind as I read this thread. I probably should not have quoted your post. LOL. Don't worry about it. I've done that before. Used someone's post as a jumping off point and ended up going in a little different direction. ;)

I, too, appreciate your posts and like to read your perspective on matters.Well thanks, but I'm afraid my perspective doesn't always settle real well with some.

Oh well ..... :)

[Rhoni]

Luke 15:1-10 (KJV) (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Luke+15%3A1-10)
Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. [2] And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.
[3] And he spake this parable unto them, saying, [4] What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? [5] And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing. [6] And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost. [7] I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
[8] Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it? [9] And when she hath found it, she calleth her friends and her neighbours together, saying, Rejoice with me; for I have found the piece which I had lost. [10] Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth. Two thousand years ago...when the Pharisees and Scribes prayed, they thanked God that they were not Gentiles, Samaritans [dogs], or women.

In the parable of the 100 sheep, the sheperd took care of 100 sheep [that was the number allotted because that was all they could care for 24/7. They were meticulous about caring for their sheep and dwelt on their safety and location, as well as their ability to eat. The shepard would go to any lengths to find the one lost sheep...when found he would put the sheep on his shoulders and call all his sheperd friends to a party to rejoice with him.

The Pharisees regarded the sheperds as 'sinner' and they could not keep the letter of the law with this profession. But Jesus' ministry was likened to that of a sheperd who would leave the 99 safely grazing in the countryside to find the one that was lost. Jesus came not to call the 'righteous' but the sinners to repentance.

Jesus also came to save the Samaritan woman, and the writter of the only book in the New Testament that was written by a Gentile was LUKE! Luke told of the parable of the Good Samaritan who took care of another even though he was "homeless/destitute/not a person you would want to associate with".

Jesus also ate with sinners and tax collectors, saved the Samaritans & Gentiles, and also fellowshipped with and used women.

The Pharisees were righteous...there is no doubt, God did not/does not rejoice over the mulitudes of law keeper/righteous, but all of heaven rejoices over one sinner that repenteth!

The keeping of the law and the rules and regulations of denominations keeps a segregated people inside it's walls but does not allow those outside in. It was Jesus ministry to save and let the outsiders in.

Jesus didn't tell us to stay inside our walls and pray to the North, South, East, and West for them to come in...but he gave us a command to "Go into the highways and hedges and compel them to come in".

It is God's intention that his people leave the comfort of their homes, fancy churches, and church buildings to go out and feed the homeless, clothe them, give them the good news and compel them to give their lives to Christ.

[Rhoni]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emma Bontrager http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?p=157390#post157390)
Yes. I personally try to stay as dumb as possible and am therefore holier and more submissive. :woot





Or at least appear that way to boost the man's ego :killinme

:killinme That's what I'm talkin' about;)! Course the older we intelligent women get the more we don't give a rip what men think anymore!

Just being Rhoni tonight!

[Felicity]

Well said from one of the least threatening of all smarty girls.:poloroidLeast of the least but loved by, understood by and cared for by my Heavenly Father.

(By the way bro ..... that book you sent me occupies a space on the top shelf of a new bookshelf sitting in our family room. Just wanted you to know. :))

[Truly Blessed]

:killinme That's what I'm talkin' about;)! Course the older we intelligent women get the more we don't give a rip what men think anymore!

Just being Rhoni tonight!I was just reading in the newspaper yesterday that one reason why some women prefer older men is the older man is more self assured and not needing to prove anything. Therefore he is more relaxed and attentive to the woman's needs.

I think this is a general truth, or should be, that as we age we are more comfortable with who we are and therefore less concerned with what others think about us. I'm not so sure I agree that women don't care what men think, or that men don't care what women think. Perhaps "don't care" is a bit strong. I think it just doesn't affect you as it might if you were younger and less confident in who you are as a person.

[Coonskinner]

I was raised by intelligent woman, and then married one.

My pastor's wife, who is on the short list of the very dearest people in the world to me, is brilliant, a published author, has a degree, etc.

I am not and have never been intimidated by intelligent women. I have been surrounded by them my whole life, and they have been a blessing.

[Steve Epley]

I knwo and have pastored many intelligent women my wife happens to be one and yes i have been threatened by intelligent and ingnorant women so what.:sly

[SDG]

I knwo and have pastored many intelligent women my wife happens to be one and yes i have been threatened by intelligent and ingnorant women so what.:sly

So women... no matter the stripe .... make you feel "threatened" ... interesting.

[H2H]

:killinme That's what I'm talkin' about;)! Course the older we intelligent women get the more we don't give a rip what men think anymore!

Just being Rhoni tonight!

It is phrases like this one that bumps one right out of the "intelligent women" catagory.

[Rhoni]

I was just reading in the newspaper yesterday that one reason why some women prefer older men is the older man is more self assured and not needing to prove anything. Therefore he is more relaxed and attentive to the woman's needs.

I think this is a general truth, or should be, that as we age we are more comfortable with who we are and therefore less concerned with what others think about us. I'm not so sure I agree that women don't care what men think, or that men don't care what women think. Perhaps "don't care" is a bit strong. I think it just doesn't affect you as it might if you were younger and less confident in who you are as a person.

That is what I said...I am older and could care less. :slyI do agree with you on the older man thing. The more I consider possible remarriage, I am persuaded that, for me; It would take an older man who is secure in himself, and settled on who he is, and financially secure to even be in the running for a high maintainence woman like myself:poloroid

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

So women... no matter the stripe .... make you feel "threatened" ... interesting.

:haloplug:killinme:killinme:killinme

[SDG]

That is what I said...I am older and could care less. :slyI do agree with you on the older man thing. The more I consider possible remarriage, I am persuaded that, for me; It would take an older man who is secure in himself, and settled on who he is, and financially secure to even be in the running for a high maintainence woman like myself:poloroid

Blessings, Rhoni

This post smacks of intelligent GOLD DIGGING....:girlpopcorn

[Rhoni]

It is phrases like this one that bumps one right out of the "intelligent women" catagory.

:13loads Back to the laundry and kitchen H2H!:girlpopcorn Sticks and stones...

[Rhoni]

This post smacks of intelligent GOLD DIGGING....:girlpopcorn

It is not like one does not have the choice to choose whom one loves...

Amy March in, Little Women.

[lisafitzh2o]

I think that 'some' men in the church and out are both intimidated by intelligent women.. course some women are intimidated by intelligent men too. I think younger men are possibly more intimidated - simply because some of them are still rather insecure.. not all by a long shot but some.

This is so true. In Bible School, I learned very quickly to "play dumb". NOT THAT THE GUYS WERE STUPID...so don't go fussing at me. But as kids in our early 20's, I found that guys all over Pentecost were extremely intimidated by a female who was intelligent. I think it's a security issue...they knew that independent girls didn't really NEED them.

But as time passes and guys become more secure in themselves, they look for a woman who knows a little more about life than just Prada and Kate Spade. :haloplug

[SDG]

This is so true. In Bible School, I learned very quickly to "play dumb". NOT THAT THE GUYS WERE STUPID...so don't go fussing at me. But as kids in our early 20's, I found that guys all over Pentecost were extremely intimidated by a female who was intelligent. I think it's a security issue...they knew that independent girls didn't really NEED them.

But as time passes and guys become more secure in themselves, they look for a woman who knows a little more about life than just Prada and Kate Spade. :haloplug

See... I told y'all!!!

[Old Paths]

I personally have no problem with intelligent women or men for that matter, as long as they are not condescending.

As a matter of fact, I can name FIVE very intelligent women that I know.

[SDG]

I personally have no problem with intelligent women or men for that matter, as long as they are not condescending.

As a matter of fact, I can name FIVE very intelligent women that I know.

Ooh ... let's hear 'em ... in order of intimidation.

[Old Paths]

Ooh ... let's hear 'em ... in order of intimidation.





Women, intelligent or not, do not intimidate me.


:D

[SDG]

Women, intelligent or not, do not intimidate me.


:D

That's what you say now ... behind that screen.

[Old Paths]

That's what you say now ... behind that screen.



The last woman that intimidated me was my Mom.

:D

[SDG]

The last woman that intimidated me was my Mom.

:D

Where's Freud when ya need him????

[Old Paths]

Where's Freud when ya need him????

You talking about that guy that used to pastor in Tennessee?

Didn't he have some kind of hangup?



:D

[RevDWW]

I've never been threatened by an intelligent women, maybe given a stern look, but never threatened........:killinme:killinme:killinme:kill inme

[SDG]

You talking about that guy that used to pastor in Tennessee?

Didn't he have some kind of hangup?



:D

There's gotta be some type of complex for a guy whose still scared of his mamma ....

[Old Paths]

There's gotta be some type of complex for a guy whose still scared of his mamma ....



Never was scared of my Mom.

Reverence, adoration, love etc.

Wonderful INTELLIGENT Apostolic lady.

Part of the reason I am saved is her guidance and belief in ME.

[SDG]

Never was scared of my Mom.

Reverence, adoration, love etc.

Wonderful INTELLIGENT Apostolic lady.

Part of the reason I am saved is her guidance and belief in ME.

I'm just funnin' w/ you, Elder.

You are blessed!!!!

[H2H]

:13loads Back to the laundry and kitchen H2H!:girlpopcorn Sticks and stones...:nahnah:nahnah:nahnah

[Trouvere]

It is my opinion that apostolic men like women with intelligence.Most of our friends have degrees of one kind or another both the men and women.

[Ferd]

The last woman that intimidated me was my Mom.

:D


LOL! I have said many times, I fear no man but I do fear my mother!

[Ferd]

This is so true. In Bible School, I learned very quickly to "play dumb". NOT THAT THE GUYS WERE STUPID...so don't go fussing at me. But as kids in our early 20's, I found that guys all over Pentecost were extremely intimidated by a female who was intelligent. I think it's a security issue...they knew that independent girls didn't really NEED them.

But as time passes and guys become more secure in themselves, they look for a woman who knows a little more about life than just Prada and Kate Spade. :haloplug

I agree....to a point. Young men who are still trying to figure out who they are, are intimidated by everyone.

But that isn’t a Pentecostal thing. That is a man thing. If you were Methodist going to the University of Kentucky you would have experienced the same thing.