Baptizing in Jesus Name on the City Hall Lawn

[CC1]

You may have seen my posts over the last couple of years about the Friday night Praise & Worship night our church has about quarterly. Usually it is in our sanctuary with the seats removed to allow more people to be there and is 2 1/2 -3 hours of Praise & Worship followed by a baptism service.

The baptism theme is carried through the next two days during our 4 regular weekend services (Saturdays 5 pm & 7 pm and Sundays 9 am & 11 am) with the lesson on baptism and baptisms at the end of each service. Usually we see 75-80 people baptized between the Friday night event and the four regular services.

Last year we held a Praise & Worship night outdoors but on property in town that rents out for events. This year in a conversation with our town mayor the mayor asked our pastor "why don't you hold your next Praise & Worship night downtown on the square?". Of course we jumped at the offer.

Our town has about 125,000 people and the downtown square is a cool area with the Courthouse in the center and many shops and restaurants surrounding the square and on streets nearby.

Not only are we having our Praise & Worship night there next Friday (June 9, 2017) but the city is having the police close off all the streets around the square to accommodate more people!

Best of all we will be baptizing people in Jesus name on the lawn of City Hall at the end of the event! Help us pray for a great community turnout and for people who have not heard the gospel message before or who have and not responded before to have their hearts opened and a hunger for Christ in their life birthed.

[Amanah]

will definitely be praying for the service, very exciting.

[Evang.Benincasa]

CC1 does that church believe that it is necessary for people to be infilled with the Holy Ghost and speak in tongues?

[CC1]

CC1 does that church believe that it is necessary for people to be infilled with the Holy Ghost and speak in tongues?

It is not a 3 stepper church so no they do not believe you must speak in tongues to be saved. The only thing this church has in common with old time OP is that we baptize in Jesus name. We do believe in the gifts of the Spirit and speaking in tongues. The church is not a "Oneness" church in the traditional OP sense. We obviously believe in one God but believe trinitarians do as well so do not demonize or contend against that view.

[Evang.Benincasa]

It is not a 3 stepper church so no they do not believe you must speak in tongues to be saved. The only thing this church has in common with old time OP is that we baptize in Jesus name. We do believe in the gifts of the Spirit and speaking in tongues. The church is not a "Oneness" church in the traditional OP sense. We obviously believe in one God but believe trinitarians do as well so do not demonize or contend against that view.

It's a broadway, wide spacious entrance and easy to find.

It's Wal Mart?

https://i.redd.it/h6lxmolovdsy.gif

[CC1]

It's a broadway, wide spacious entrance and easy to find.

It's Wal Mart?

https://i.redd.it/h6lxmolovdsy.gif

No, it is just biblical.

[Evang.Benincasa]

No, it is just biblical.

That's what they all say.

Step right up, step right up, step right up
Everyone's a winner, bargains galore
That's right, you too can be the proud owner
Of the quality goes in before the name goes on
One-tenth of a dollar, one-tenth of a dollar, we got service after sales
You need Bible study? we got flip charts, how 'bout a highlighter?
Something for the little lady, something for the little lady
Something for the little lady, hmm
Three for a dollar

We got a year-end clearance, we got a white sale
And a smoke-damaged pews, you can drive it away today
Act now, Acts 2:38 now, and receive a free Bible as our gift, our gift to you
They come in all colors, one size fits all
No muss, no fuss, no spills, you're tired of kitchen drudgery
Everything must go, giving you the business, taking care of your business
Putting our nose into your business sale
Fifty percent off original retail price, skip the middle man
Don't settle for less, 3 steppers, 4 steppers and 1 steppers to no steppers all served fresh daily :heeheehee

[CC1]

That's what they all say.

Step right up, step right up, step right up
Everyone's a winner, bargains galore
That's right, you too can be the proud owner
Of the quality goes in before the name goes on
One-tenth of a dollar, one-tenth of a dollar, we got service after sales
You need Bible study? we got flip charts, how 'bout a highlighter?
Something for the little lady, something for the little lady
Something for the little lady, hmm
Three for a dollar

We got a year-end clearance, we got a white sale
And a smoke-damaged pews, you can drive it away today
Act now, Acts 2:38 now, and receive a free Bible as our gift, our gift to you
They come in all colors, one size fits all
No muss, no fuss, no spills, you're tired of kitchen drudgery
Everything must go, giving you the business, taking care of your business
Putting our nose into your business sale
Fifty percent off original retail price, skip the middle man
Don't settle for less, 3 steppers, 4 steppers and 1 steppers to no steppers all served fresh daily :heeheehee

I am just excited about the opportunity to reach more of my city for Christ and appreciate the folks on AFF's prayers. If you can't bring yourself to pray that people who might not know Christ find him through my church and events like this then maybe you can pray we reach them and get them interested in Christ and then they stumble across an old time Pentecostal church and get "full salvation" as I think 3 steppers call it.

[Evang.Benincasa]

I am just excited about the opportunity to reach more of my city for Christ and appreciate the folks on AFF's prayers. If you can't bring yourself to pray that people who might not know Christ find him through my church and events like this then maybe you can pray we reach them and get them interested in Christ and then they stumble across an old time Pentecostal church and get "full salvation" as I think 3 steppers call it.

You can only see me as the wet blanket. To you I'm not celebrating, and rejoicing in Jesus name baptism. Which I'm a JESUS NAME to the bone. Yet, my prayers are that they will see through all the webs, the smoke, the humble bare feet and the bloody knees of the preacher crawling under the spotlight. 3 stepper? Get over it already. Your foot is still stuck in the Pentecostal stirrup and you have been dragged through Neo-Phariseeism. You believe you are a deconstructionist who is bringing a deeper meaning to all who are baptized.

But it is only Aldous Huxley's First Church of the Brave New World.

They are being baptized!

Into what?

It's in Jesus name!

Which Jesus?

[Amanah]

I am just excited about the opportunity to reach more of my city for Christ and appreciate the folks on AFF's prayers. If you can't bring yourself to pray that people who might not know Christ find him through my church and events like this then maybe you can pray we reach them and get them interested in Christ and then they stumble across an old time Pentecostal church and get "full salvation" as I think 3 steppers call it.

I will be praying, I received the HG in an AOG church that I visited with some friends when I was 11 and then later was baptized in Jesus name when I was 15 because of a street evangelist. Didn't actually start attending church till I joined an Independent Apostolic church when I was 24. God kept leading me closer to him one step at a time.

[Evang.Benincasa]

The Spirit of Truth will lead into all truth.

That's what we pray for.

[CC1]

You can only see me as the wet blanket. To you I'm not celebrating, and rejoicing in Jesus name baptism. Which I'm a JESUS NAME to the bone. Yet, my prayers are that they will see through all the webs, the smoke, the humble bare feet and the bloody knees of the preacher crawling under the spotlight. 3 stepper? Get over it already. Your foot is still stuck in the Pentecostal stirrup and you have been dragged through Neo-Phariseeism. You believe you are a deconstructionist who is bringing a deeper meaning to all who are baptized.

But it is only Aldous Huxley's First Church of the Brave New World.

They are being baptized!

Into what?

It's in Jesus name!

Which Jesus?

I don't see you as a "wet blanket". Just as not having a clue. You are certainly entitled to your beliefs and views as I am. I honestly don't expend a lot of energy worrying about what christians who believe differently than me think about my beliefs. I do take offense at ignorant and sarcastic things said about my pastor by people who don't know him. The snarky insinuations that he is not sincere, etc.

[Esaias]

That's what they all say.

Step right up, step right up, step right up
Everyone's a winner, bargains galore
That's right, you too can be the proud owner
Of the quality goes in before the name goes on
One-tenth of a dollar, one-tenth of a dollar, we got service after sales
You need Bible study? we got flip charts, how 'bout a highlighter?
Something for the little lady, something for the little lady
Something for the little lady, hmm
Three for a dollar

We got a year-end clearance, we got a white sale
And a smoke-damaged pews, you can drive it away today
Act now, Acts 2:38 now, and receive a free Bible as our gift, our gift to you
They come in all colors, one size fits all
No muss, no fuss, no spills, you're tired of kitchen drudgery
Everything must go, giving you the business, taking care of your business
Putting our nose into your business sale
Fifty percent off original retail price, skip the middle man
Don't settle for less, 3 steppers, 4 steppers and 1 steppers to no steppers all served fresh daily :heeheehee

Makes me think of this guy, I can hear his voice even now:

https://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/warehouse13/images/c/c0/W-C-Fields.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120618032550

[Evang.Benincasa]

Makes me think of this guy, I can hear his voice even now:

https://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/warehouse13/images/c/c0/W-C-Fields.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120618032550

Again, you can see that this movement sees anyone outside of it as a sideshow freak. We are told that the Freak Show has "oddities" as its "beliefs" Don't get me wrong, they aren't coming out and telling you that you are BOBO the dog face boy right out. But, when you press them with "I'm not too sure about the whole story." You are then informed that it is you who are the bad machine. You are the one not rejoicing in freedom, liberty, and most of all humble barefoot love. Please, don't offer a criticism, because you would then be not rejoicing in the salvation of the lost. Pretty much it has its own beautiful barbed wire wrapped around it. So much beauty wrapped around the Bible. Preacher is humble, ragged, family eating a steady diet of Ramen Noodles, patiently waiting for his children to get old enough. So, he would warrant a pay increase. I think I can hear the shuffle of angel feet? Barefoot angels of light.

[KeptByTheWord]

Good news CC1!

[consapente89]

No, it is just biblical.

No its not. Not at all.

[Aquila]

Most traditional Apostolics have little understanding of the major doctrines of salvation and how they dovetail and interrelate. For example:

Justification
Regeneration
Adoption

Justification takes place at repentance. In it, the believer stands with an imputed righteousness whereby they are accounted as being sinless before God. It is this justified state that allows one to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Regeneration takes place at the moment one receives the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Regeneration is essentially the very Spirit of God coming to abide in one's inner man. It is here that the very life of God begins flowing through one's inner being. It is through this spiritual reality that one partakes in the divine nature.

Adoption is accounted after one is made a new creature through the Regeneration that takes place as one is filled with the Spirit. And so, one is accounted as being a child of God.

Primary doctrines of soteriological significance such as Atonement, Propitiation, Justification, Identification, Regeneration, Adoption, and Sanctification are not widely understood in traditional Apostolic circles.

[aegsm76]

It is not a 3 stepper church so no they do not believe you must speak in tongues to be saved. The only thing this church has in common with old time OP is that we baptize in Jesus name. We do believe in the gifts of the Spirit and speaking in tongues. The church is not a "Oneness" church in the traditional OP sense. We obviously believe in one God but believe trinitarians do as well so do not demonize or contend against that view.

CC1 - I am trying to be excited for you, but it sounds as though your church is is somewhat too far out on doctrine, for me to be so.
And to say that trinitarians believe in one God is like saying that socialists believe in limited government.
While I will grant you that most people who attend trinitarian churches are unsure as to how many or what "gods" they worship, their theologians have an entirely different viewpoint.
They firmly believe in the trinity and believe those who are "oneness" are in false doctrine.
I would also ask you what is there that would prevent this church from falling back into false doctrine the same as Christ Church did?
Without a strong teaching of doctrine, the congregation will be led into whatever field the pulpit wishes to lead.

[FlamingZword]

I don't see you as a "wet blanket". Just as not having a clue. You are certainly entitled to your beliefs and views as I am. I honestly don't expend a lot of energy worrying about what christians who believe differently than me think about my beliefs. I do take offense at ignorant and sarcastic things said about my pastor by people who don't know him. The snarky insinuations that he is not sincere, etc.

I rejoice that you are spreading the Gospel and his name. :thumbsup
Keep up the good work and get them into bible studies, so they can grow in the Lord.

[consapente89]

CC1 - I am trying to be excited for you, but it sounds as though your church is is somewhat too far out on doctrine, for me to be so.
And to say that trinitarians believe in one God is like saying that socialists believe in limited government.
While I will grant you that most people who attend trinitarian churches are unsure as to how many or what "gods" they worship, their theologians have an entirely different viewpoint.
They firmly believe in the trinity and believe those who are "oneness" are in false doctrine.
I would also ask you what is there that would prevent this church from falling back into false doctrine the same as Christ Church did?
Without a strong teaching of doctrine, the congregation will be led into whatever field the pulpit wishes to lead.


What false doctrine did Christ Church fall into?

[seguidordejesus]

CC1 - I am trying to be excited for you, but it sounds as though your church is is somewhat too far out on doctrine, for me to be so.
And to say that trinitarians believe in one God is like saying that socialists believe in limited government.
While I will grant you that most people who attend trinitarian churches are unsure as to how many or what "gods" they worship, their theologians have an entirely different viewpoint.
They firmly believe in the trinity and believe those who are "oneness" are in false doctrine.
I would also ask you what is there that would prevent this church from falling back into false doctrine the same as Christ Church did?
Without a strong teaching of doctrine, the congregation will be led into whatever field the pulpit wishes to lead.

What do you think CC1 stands for?? LOL

[Evang.Benincasa]

What do you think CC1 stands for?? LOL

When he use to ride his Gold Wing Honda? I thought it was for Chopper Charlie 1 :cc1

[CC1]

When he use to ride his Gold Wing Honda? I thought it was for Chopper Charlie 1 :cc1

VTX 1300, not a Gold Wing! Candy Apple red with lots of chrome. Boy do I miss that bike!!!!

[Amanah]

VTX 1300, not a Gold Wing! Candy Apple red with lots of chrome. Boy do I miss that bike!!!!

Is Mrs CC1 glad it is gone?

[CC1]

CC1 - I am trying to be excited for you, but it sounds as though your church is is somewhat too far out on doctrine, for me to be so.
And to say that trinitarians believe in one God is like saying that socialists believe in limited government.
While I will grant you that most people who attend trinitarian churches are unsure as to how many or what "gods" they worship, their theologians have an entirely different viewpoint.
They firmly believe in the trinity and believe those who are "oneness" are in false doctrine.
I would also ask you what is there that would prevent this church from falling back into false doctrine the same as Christ Church did?
Without a strong teaching of doctrine, the congregation will be led into whatever field the pulpit wishes to lead.

Since we don't dispute the trinity I think we are already in "false doctrine" according to old time OP beliefs! I am just trying to share what we do have in common and what our church is doing.

As I said before perhaps old time OP's can pray for the success of this event on the basis that people who don't know Christ might become aware, repent, and maybe even be baptized in Jesus name so then it is just a short step for them to find a UPC or like old time OP church to bring them into "full salvation"!

[CC1]

Is Mrs CC1 glad it is gone?

I doubt it. I have a lot of life insurance! LOL. Plus it kept me out of her hair on weekends as I would spend many Saturday's out riding in the country all day. This was before we had grandkids.

Getting rid of it was all a matter of managing risk. I was getting older and had arthritis in both shoulders, a calcified tendon in one shoulder, a bad knee, etc and my bike weighed over 700 lbs dry. If I still had it the arthritis I have since developed in fingers on both hands would make riding for any length of time even harder. I still sure do miss it though. Nothing more relaxing and exhilarating than riding out in the country.

[CC1]

Here is a pic of our town square where the Praise & Worship night is going to be this Friday June 9, 2017.

[CC1]

Here is a picture of a little article our local newspaper published about our event.

[houston]

I don't see you as a "wet blanket". Just as not having a clue. You are certainly entitled to your beliefs and views as I am. I honestly don't expend a lot of energy worrying about what christians who believe differently than me think about my beliefs. I do take offense at ignorant and sarcastic things said about my pastor by people who don't know him. The snarky insinuations that he is not sincere, etc.

Apparently your church baptizes people in the name of a different Jesus. Not sure how that works. Rilly.

[Evang.Benincasa]

VTX 1300, not a Gold Wing! Candy Apple red with lots of chrome. Boy do I miss that bike!!!!

Sorry, I thought you had a Gold Wing.

[Evang.Benincasa]

I doubt it. I have a lot of life insurance! LOL. Plus it kept me out of her hair on weekends as I would spend many Saturday's out riding in the country all day. This was before we had grandkids.

Getting rid of it was all a matter of managing risk. I was getting older and had arthritis in both shoulders, a calcified tendon in one shoulder, a bad knee, etc and my bike weighed over 700 lbs dry. If I still had it the arthritis I have since developed in fingers on both hands would make riding for any length of time even harder. I still sure do miss it though. Nothing more relaxing and exhilarating than riding out in the country.

I wonder if you stopped eating all gluten how that arthritis would lessen?

[CC1]

I wonder if you stopped eating all gluten how that arthritis would lessen?

I have been thinking about that myself lately. I tend to be skeptical of all of these recent "discoveries" like issues with gluten but you never know.

I had been treating my arthritis with over the counter ibufroen but a little over a month ago my doctor prescribed Meloxicam and it has been amazing at reducing the pain in my fingers. Of course it could also be the warmer weather but we had a very mild Winter and Spring so I don't know.

[CC1]

One thing I am curious about is if any liberal anti christian group will make a fuss over baptisms being done on the city square. I don't know what the legalities are but seems something the ACLU would try to claim is a violation of the separation of church and state.

[Ferd]

I am for the baptizing of people in the name of Jesus. I am for the infilling of the Holy Ghost.

I don't need everyone in lock step with me on every point, but those things are far better when present....

[Ferd]

One thing I am curious about is if any liberal anti christian group will make a fuss over baptisms being done on the city square. I don't know what the legalities are but seems something the ACLU would try to claim is a violation of the separation of church and state.

agree. if nothing else this is standing up to the progressive lefts cultural revolution. on that alone, your church is making me happy.

[Evang.Benincasa]

I am for the baptizing of people in the name of Jesus. I am for the infilling of the Holy Ghost.

I don't need everyone in lock step with me on every point, but those things are far better when present....

They baptize in Jesus name, but infilling of the Holy Ghost is optional. Sadly where it is optional, few, and I do mean few get it.

[Evang.Benincasa]

One thing I am curious about is if any liberal anti christian group will make a fuss over baptisms being done on the city square. I don't know what the legalities are but seems something the ACLU would try to claim is a violation of the separation of church and state.

Come to Wilton Manors Florida in Broward County and do the same thing. See how far you go. It is allowed in your neck of the woods because of the number of conservatives. Google, flag of Wilton Manors, you'll see what I mean. Baptizing people on the lawn of a government building are just church advertising.

[Evang.Benincasa]

I have been thinking about that myself lately. I tend to be skeptical of all of these recent "discoveries" like issues with gluten but you never know.

I had been treating my arthritis with over the counter ibufroen but a little over a month ago my doctor prescribed Meloxicam and it has been amazing at reducing the pain in my fingers. Of course it could also be the warmer weather but we had a very mild Winter and Spring so I don't know.

Don't be skeptical if something works. Everyone is different and react to certain foods differently. Gluten has been modified to the point that it has an adverse reaction to joints, tendons, and muscle. The simplest list of indicators you're Gluten intolerant have inflammation, swelling, pain in your joints, fingers, knees and hips, listed.

[consapente89]

They baptize in Jesus name, but infilling of the Holy Ghost is optional. Sadly where it is optional, few, and I do mean few get it.

CC1 says frequently that his church "believes in the gifts of the Spirit". I wonder how his pastor would define the "infilling of the Holy Ghost." My guess is he wouldn't even be considered a classical Pentecostal according to the AG model. CC1....do you ever hear anyone speak in tongues in your church?

Also...since the congregants do the baptizing and they are probably extremely varied as to doctrinal positions, and all the pastor really instructs them on is "now it's important to say the name of Jesus when you baptize" I would also question how many are actually baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

[Evang.Benincasa]

CC1 says frequently that his church "believes in the gifts of the Spirit". I wonder how his pastor would define the "infilling of the Holy Ghost." My guess is he wouldn't even be considered a classical Pentecostal according to the AG model. CC1....do you ever hear anyone speak in tongues in your church?

Also...since the congregants do the baptizing and they are probably extremely varied as to doctrinal positions, and all the pastor really instructs them on is "now it's important to say the name of Jesus when you baptize" I would also question how many are actually baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

Wow, CC1 your church is the First Church of the Barefoot Hippy?

Congregants baptize? I know hippy churches down here. They have a homeless guy get baptized. He then walks over to the other homeless guy and baptizes him. My question would be how does that all work? Do you all just randomly pick your baptizers? Does the pastorally team? Down here we have Calvary Chapel, they have 40,000 people? Everyone believes in whatever. But to be a teacher in a cell group then you have to go by the church manual. You know, I have always heard people mock and say when you get to heaven you are going to be surprised who is there. I always answer, "what if you are wrong?" What if it is as Old Time Pentecostal beyond what you can possibly fathom? Our culture in this country is focused on diversity in unity. Sorry, but that ain't gonna fly. Walking contradictions can't walk together for long. Sooner or later they both fall into the ditch.

[CC1]

" I would also question how many are actually baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

This I can easily answer. 100%.

[CC1]

Here is a quick report in bullet points on how the Praise & Worship night went last night, June 9, 2017;

* It was a great success (I will post pics later)

* Police estimated around 4,000 people there but I think that is over shooting it. My estimate was 2-3,000 people but could have been more.

* Baptismal tanks were set up on the lawn of city hall and 47+ people were baptized in Jesus Name!

* All four regular weekend services at church will be baptism lessons and the baptisms will continue all four services. I will report back the weekend total after tomorrow.

* God blessed us with perfect weather. It was a beautiful June day with the first half in daylight and about 80 degrees or so under sunny skies and then after the sun went down it was still a nice 70-75 degrees.

* The Mayor of our town contacted our pastor today to ask how many were baptized as he wanted to share that with other city government officials

* The lead minister (they don't have pastors) of the largest local Church of Christ was there and pointed out to our pastor that the tree next to our baptismal tanks had been used well over 100 years ago by the KKK lynching African Americans and what a nice contrast that we were raising people to life in Christ where death had occurred before.

* We are hoping this Praise & Worship night on the square will become an annual summer event in addition to the other two ones we typically hold at our church.

[Evang.Benincasa]

When a Campbellite thinks your cool, that may be a time of reexamination.

[CC1]

When a Campbellite thinks your cool, that may be a time of reexamination.

In your opinion not mine and we are each entitled to one. I guess you consider it a badge of honor if other churches don't like yours?

[Evang.Benincasa]

In your opinion not mine and we are each entitled to one. I guess you consider it a badge of honor if other churches don't like yours?

No, you miss the point.

It isn't a badge of honor.

It is sad to watch the Christianity in this country become commercial.
Bro, this isn't personal, this is just about spiritual realities. Water baptism on the White House lawn, and Church of Christ preacher giving a thumbs up? Sounds all so Kumbyahish. Find where Jesus and the other religious sects during the first century had a group hug? Please by all means, spoon feed.

[Esaias]

When a Campbellite thinks your cool, that may be a time of reexamination.

rofl!

Campbellites love talking to me. They ask what my religion is I say "Just a Christian." Their eyes light up and they say "No denomination?" And I smile and say "No, just a simple, bible believing Christian. JUST A CHRISTIAN." they start grinning and ask me "If you were to die right now do you know you'd make it to glory?" I say "Of course!" they ask "How do you know?" I can see the gleam in their eyes at this point rather clearly, so I say "I repented of my sins, got baptised in accordance with Acts 2:38 and received the gift of the Holy Spirit, just like the bible says!" As they slap me on the back and start to hug me I then add "And it was so awesome getting filled with the Holy Ghost, I didn't know if I was ever going to stop speaking in tongues! How bout you? Are YOU saved the BIBLE way?"

The look on their face is classic "Campbellite Horror, circa 1950s".
:icecream

[CC1]

Here is a quick report in bullet points on how the Praise & Worship night went last night, June 9, 2017;

* It was a great success (I will post pics later)

* Police estimated around 4,000 people there but I think that is over shooting it. My estimate was 2-3,000 people but could have been more.

* Baptismal tanks were set up on the lawn of city hall and 47+ people were baptized in Jesus Name!

* All four regular weekend services at church will be baptism lessons and the baptisms will continue all four services. I will report back the weekend total after tomorrow.

* God blessed us with perfect weather. It was a beautiful June day with the first half in daylight and about 80 degrees or so under sunny skies and then after the sun went down it was still a nice 70-75 degrees.

* The Mayor of our town contacted our pastor today to ask how many were baptized as he wanted to share that with other city government officials

* The lead minister (they don't have pastors) of the largest local Church of Christ was there and pointed out to our pastor that the tree next to our baptismal tanks had been used well over 100 years ago by the KKK lynching African Americans and what a nice contrast that we were raising people to life in Christ where death had occurred before.

* We are hoping this Praise & Worship night on the square will become an annual summer event in addition to the other two ones we typically hold at our church.

This afternoon wrapped up the 4th of our regular weekend services and between them and Friday nights Praise & Worship event on the town square we baptized 106 people in Jesus Name this weekend!

[Amanah]

This afternoon wrapped up the 4th of our regular weekend services and between them and Friday nights Praise & Worship event on the town square we baptized 106 people in Jesus Name this weekend!

definitely a step in the right direction.

you may have answered this already but I can't remember, do you have services that focus on people receiving the Holy Ghost?

At FPC Palm Bay, we are always happy for either/both but sometimes there will be a focus on baptism and sometimes on the Holy Ghost.

[CC1]

definitely a step in the right direction.

you may have answered this already but I can't remember, do you have services that focus on people receiving the Holy Ghost?

At FPC Palm Bay, we are always happy for either/both but sometimes there will be a focus on baptism and sometimes on the Holy Ghost.

No.

[Evang.Benincasa]

No.

Church of Christ preacher would be proud.

[Evang.Benincasa]

rofl!

Campbellites love talking to me. They ask what my religion is I say "Just a Christian." Their eyes light up and they say "No denomination?" And I smile and say "No, just a simple, bible believing Christian. JUST A CHRISTIAN." they start grinning and ask me "If you were to die right now do you know you'd make it to glory?" I say "Of course!" they ask "How do you know?" I can see the gleam in their eyes at this point rather clearly, so I say "I repented of my sins, got baptised in accordance with Acts 2:38 and received the gift of the Holy Spirit, just like the bible says!" As they slap me on the back and start to hug me I then add "And it was so awesome getting filled with the Holy Ghost, I didn't know if I was ever going to stop speaking in tongues! How bout you? Are YOU saved the BIBLE way?"

The look on their face is classic "Campbellite Horror, circa 1950s".
:icecream

But I must say that the Church of Christ preacher who was at CC1's event may of been a moderate. Church of Christ and their Campbellite origins have gone native. Quite a few have gone the way of the shapeshifters slouching towards Gomorrah. Hey, I love when people are baptized in Jesus name, but tend to frown on them being baptized in Jesus name at the First Church of the French Pedicure. We are Apostolic Pentecostals, we go cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs over the mere mention of Jesus name baptism. Yet, we want the baptized to receive the Holy Ghost with the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance. Hey, the whole reason why were're called Pentecostal is because of the tongue talkin stuff. Church of Christless baptize in Jesus name, and those guys are deader than fried chicken. I know some Baptist who baptize in Jesus name, and when you visit bring a pillow. One steppers how about Fast Food is our mood. They moan about Brand X being three steppers, when in reality their real beef is that they are looking to make their religion quick and easy. Microwavable within 6 minutes tied dyed sundress tattooed girl looking for a Bible in the grass, church. Step right up

Step right up, step right up, step right up
Everyone's gets a water baptism, baptisms galore
That's right, you too can be the proud owner
Of the quality goes in before the Jesus name goes on
One-tenth of a dollar, one-tenth of a dollar, we got service after sales
You need a Bible? we got Bible, how 'bout a highlighter?
Something for the little lady, something for the little lady
Something for the little lady, hmm
Three for a stepper.

We got a year-end clearance, we got a white sale
And a smoke-damaged pews, you can drive it away today
Act now, act now, and receive as our gift, our gift to you a Holy Ghost shirt
They come in all colors, one size fits all
No muss, no fuss, no spills, you're tired of kitchen drudgery
Everything must go, going out of business, going out of business
Giving you the business sale.

Fifty percent off original retail price, skip the pastor, man
Don't settle for less
How do we do it? how do we do it? volume, volume, turn up the volume
Now you've heard it advertised, don't hesitate
Don't be caught with your shoes off
Don't be caught with your shoes on
You can step right up, step right up
That's right, it filets, it chops, it dices, slices
Never stops, lasts a lifetime, mows your lawn
And it mows your lawn and it picks up the kids from vacation Bible school
It gets rid of unwanted rebellious facial hair
it gets rid of embarrassing age spots

It delivers a pizza, and it lengthens your hair, and it strengthens
And it finds the pastor's slipper that's been at large under the chaise lounge for several weeks
And it plays a mean Rhythm Master
It makes excuses for being late for church
And it's only a dollar, step right up, it's only a dollar, step right up
'Cause it forges your signature
If not completely satisfied, mail back unused portion of product
For complete refund of price of purchase
Step right up
Please allow thirty days for delivery, don't be fooled by cheap imitations
You can live in it, live in it, laugh in it, love in it
Swim in it, sleep in it
Live in it, swim in it, laugh in it, love in it

[CC1]

Church of Christ preacher would be proud.

Particularly when my pastor teaches on the gifts of the Spirit including speaking in tongues, tongues and interpretation, healing ,etc.

I have made it clear anytime i have talked about my church that it is not a 3 stepper church and does not see speaking in tongues as a requirement for salvation. I am not looking to advocate for that doctrinal position on AFF so generally focus on what my church has in common with traditional OP's.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Particularly when my pastor teaches on the gifts of the Spirit including speaking in tongues, tongues and interpretation, healing ,etc.

I have made it clear anytime i have talked about my church that it is not a 3 stepper church and does not see speaking in tongues as a requirement for salvation. I am not looking to advocate for that doctrinal position on AFF so generally focus on what my church has in common with traditional OP's.

Which would be the Jesus name baptism.

[Esaias]

Particularly when my pastor teaches on the gifts of the Spirit including speaking in tongues, tongues and interpretation, healing ,etc.

I have made it clear anytime i have talked about my church that it is not a 3 stepper church and does not see speaking in tongues as a requirement for salvation. I am not looking to advocate for that doctrinal position on AFF so generally focus on what my church has in common with traditional OP's.

Does your church teach that the baptism with the Holy Ghost is evidenced with speaking in other tongues?

Or do you have lots of folks who think they can prophesy, discern spirits, get revelations, etc etc but have never spoken in tongues and don't intend to?

[Evang.Benincasa]

It is not a 3 stepper church so no they do not believe you must speak in tongues to be saved. The only thing this church has in common with old time OP is that we baptize in Jesus name. We do believe in the gifts of the Spirit and speaking in tongues. The church is not a "Oneness" church in the traditional OP sense. We obviously believe in one God but believe trinitarians do as well so do not demonize or contend against that view.

:bump for Esaias

[consapente89]

How frequently would one hear someone speak in tongues at this church?

[CC1]

How frequently would one hear someone speak in tongues at this church?

Not often based on I Corinthians 14! I would hope we would only hear it per the guidelines in verses 27 and 28. Nowhere in the New Testament to do I see what we witness in modern day Pentecostal churches with preachers speaking in tongues into a microphone for extended periods of time with no prophecy.

I believe tongues are a prayer language between the believer and God and not meant for corporate worship per I Corinthians.

While stating he spoke in tongues more than all of them the writer states that ;

19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.I know this goes against the view of tongues in Pentecost.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Not often based on I Corinthians 14! I would hope we would only hear it per the guidelines in verses 27 and 28. Nowhere in the New Testament to do I see what we witness in modern day Pentecostal churches with preachers speaking in tongues into a microphone for extended periods of time with no prophecy.

I believe tongues are a prayer language between the believer and God and not meant for corporate worship per I Corinthians.

While stating he spoke in tongues more than all of them the writer states that ;

19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.I know this goes against the view of tongues in Pentecost.

1st Corinthians 14 is only addressing the "elders" ministers in the congregation. Hence the reason why Paul is instructing them not to address the congregation in tongues. But to address the congregation in a known language so all may "learn?" They were to address the congregation one by one, and if anyone had a message in tongues there had to be a elder who could interpret. If there was no elder, then he who had a message in tongues was to remain silent in the church.

So, the only thing CC1 church has in common with Old Tyme Pennycost, is water baptism in Jesus name.

This whole three stepper thing got a lot of air time on NFCF and the early days of this forum. Biblical soteriology is whole, it doesn't have steps. Anyone who buys into the whole "steps" goofology is buying into ecclesiastical baloney. Guess what if the one steppers were really one steppers they would be inclusionists, and not even compel people to attend a church. CC1, does your pastor teach that you must be part of a congregation after you get baptized in front of City Hall?

[CC1]

. CC1, does your pastor teach that you must be part of a congregation after you get baptized in front of City Hall?

I found this a strange question. I guess maybe you are insinuating that our pastor just cares about numbers and being able to say a big number of people were baptized, etc and doesn't care about discipleship. Nothing could be further from the truth. Our church offers and urges people to take advantage of discipleship and learning through things like;

*Mid Week small groups
*Special classes / courses throughout the year. Next one titled "Foundations" begins 6/25 and lasts about 2 months. It covers basic doctrines, etc. When that finishes 8/20 another class will begin. This one titled "Following Jesus". These are all part of what we call "Experience University".

The pastor constantly stresses that repenting and giving your life to Christ is only the doorway to ones walk with a Christian. One of his most often used examples is that of a husband and wife. If a husband ignore his wife, never takes her on dates, doesn't talk to her, care for her needs, etc then there is no relationship and the same thing is true of our walk with Christ. To follow him you have to know him. To know him you have to study, pray, etc, etc.

Of course doctrinally the church is miles from old time Pentecost and I have never said it wasn't. I have no problem with people disagreeing with my churches doctrine. What I do have a problem with is people who don't know my pastor demeaning him and his motives. You may find this hard to believe but there are actually people who don't believe like you do who are just as committed to Christ as you are and as serious as you are about the gospel and great commission. The arrogance of acting like those that don't agree with you are somehow bad people doing what they do for the wrong reasons is just wrong. Of course there are people that do fit that bill but I can point them out in old time Pentecost as well. However, unlike you, I don't prescribe ill motives to the ultra con and con OP's I disagree with. I know that most of them love the Lord with all their heart and doing what they believe is right.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Of course doctrinally the church is miles from old time Pentecost and I have never said it wasn't.

Bro, you don't get it. It's the way you say your church doesn't. Three Steppers! We aren't Three Steppers!! Old Time Pentecostals are Three Steppers! I mean you all had a ball with this stuff back when Vicki Yohe adopted the forum, and Alicia was set loose to dance naked on the coffee table wearing a lampshade on his head. You all had yourselves a time back in the day. I mean who on earth knew what a three stepper was? You ancient ones who were raised around the Stonehenge of Hazelwood? Bro, I guess I never got the same fortune cookie as you people who were raised in this, and walked away thinking that we were all a bunch of religious retards. Hey, I'm real sorry, that you and others think we are all supposed to sit back and turn the other cheek, while you constantly post things which are red flags flashed in front of us. If we comment, then we have a bad spirit? We don't care about people who love Jesus? What? Bro, I asked you before, show me in the scriptures where Jesus or Paul had the same attitude towards the religious of their time.


I have no problem with people disagreeing with my churches doctrine.

Then that would obviously mean that it is OK when we do.


What I do have a problem with is people who don't know my pastor demeaning him and his motives.

Why can't I? You made some statements about house churches being a harbor for the religiously insane. People who have jacked up doctrines who can't find a seat at the local First Church of Wal Mart. Therefore they are warped. You dish it out? Then be strong enough to do some heavy lifting when I load your bar.



You may find this hard to believe but there are actually people who don't believe like you do who are just as committed to Christ as you are and as serious as you are about the gospel and great commission.

Sure, there are people who are sincerely wrong. You think the people who went down to Mexico to be surgically castrated for their cult "Heaven's Gate" where any less committed? Jim Jones' communists in Guyana, were any less committed? Bro, religion has a vast ocean of true believers, as dedicated as sincere as anyone I know. Yet, you and I live in a culture where it is not politically correct for anyone of us to say we are right and everyone else is wrong. Guess what? Jesus said He was right, and everyone else was wrong.

How on earth, can so many people claim to follow Jesus Christ and be so vastly different? Not just on baptism, but on a plethora of different things. Listen, the Spirit of truth will guide into all Truth. But when you are in a church which stops that growth because THEY don't believe in it. Then what does the neophyte do? Pastor believes anyone who says they must be baptized in Jesus name, and must be infilled with the Holy Ghost with the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues is a three stepper, and three steppers are bad. Neophyte says, well I see in the Bible Uncle Jim that we must repent, be baptized in Jesus name, and be infilled with the Holy Ghost with speaking in tongues as God gives the utterance. No! No! That's what the mean ugly savagely backward Old Pentecostals believed.


The arrogance of acting like those that don't agree with you are somehow bad people doing what they do for the wrong reasons is just wrong.

Postmodernism. There is NO TRUTH. If anyone says there is Truth and God forbid they blaspheme by saying they have it. They are arrogant, and therefore a religious leper. 2+2 = 4 that's truth, I have it, get over it. :heeheehee


Of course there are people that do fit that bill but I can point them out in old time Pentecost as well. However, unlike you, I don't prescribe ill motives to the ultra con and con OP's I disagree with. I know that most of them love the Lord with all their heart and doing what they believe is right.

You see bro, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Somebody is wrong, and somebody is right. I have been with you posting long enough that you believe Ultra Cons, and OTP are wrong on there beliefs. Political correctness and religion doesn't fly at all. It doesn't get off the ground.

I found this a strange question. I guess maybe you are insinuating that our pastor just cares about numbers and being able to say a big number of people were baptized, etc and doesn't care about discipleship. Nothing could be further from the truth. Our church offers and urges people to take advantage of discipleship and learning through things like;

Maybe I'm insinuating? Bro, this is what I have always found funny about forums. They complain you do something, then they do the same thing they accused you of back to you. Bro, if you read my post, I was dealing with "steps" 1 step, 3 steps or 666 steps right off the cliff. Bro, your pastor urges people to come to church? To get grounded? To get Bible studies? If soteriology is only one step as you repeatedly remind us, then why even come back to church? Does it wear off?


The pastor constantly stresses that repenting and giving your life to Christ is only the doorway to ones walk with a Christian.

Oh? You mean there are more steps to take through the doorway down the hallway?


One of his most often used examples is that of a husband and wife. If a husband ignore his wife, never takes her on dates, doesn't talk to her, care for her needs, etc then there is no relationship and the same thing is true of our walk with Christ. To follow him you have to know him. To know him you have to study, pray, etc, etc.

WALK WITH CHRIST.

CC1, do you walk with only one step?

Whatever.

[houston]

Someone's living in 2005.

[seguidordejesus]

No.

Where's Billy Cole when you need him?

[Jermyn Davidson]

Particularly when my pastor teaches on the gifts of the Spirit including speaking in tongues, tongues and interpretation, healing ,etc.

I have made it clear anytime i have talked about my church that it is not a 3 stepper church and does not see speaking in tongues as a requirement for salvation. I am not looking to advocate for that doctrinal position on AFF so generally focus on what my church has in common with traditional OP's.

My friend, this is a classy response to read!
:yourock

[Jermyn Davidson]

Bro, you don't get it. It's the way you say your church doesn't. Three Steppers! We aren't Three Steppers!! Old Time Pentecostals are Three Steppers! I mean you all had a ball with this stuff back when Vicki Yohe adopted the forum, and Alicia was set loose to dance naked on the coffee table wearing a lampshade on his head. You all had yourselves a time back in the day. I mean who on earth knew what a three stepper was? You ancient ones who were raised around the Stonehenge of Hazelwood? Bro, I guess I never got the same fortune cookie as you people who were raised in this, and walked away thinking that we were all a bunch of religious retards. Hey, I'm real sorry, that you and others think we are all supposed to sit back and turn the other cheek, while you constantly post things which are red flags flashed in front of us. If we comment, then we have a bad spirit? We don't care about people who love Jesus? What? Bro, I asked you before, show me in the scriptures where Jesus or Paul had the same attitude towards the religious of their time.



Then that would obviously mean that it is OK when we do.



Why can't I? You made some statements about house churches being a harbor for the religiously insane. People who have jacked up doctrines who can't find a seat at the local First Church of Wal Mart. Therefore they are warped. You dish it out? Then be strong enough to do some heavy lifting when I load your bar.




Sure, there are people who are sincerely wrong. You think the people who went down to Mexico to be surgically castrated for their cult "Heaven's Gate" where any less committed? Jim Jones' communists in Guyana, were any less committed? Bro, religion has a vast ocean of true believers, as dedicated as sincere as anyone I know. Yet, you and I live in a culture where it is not politically correct for anyone of us to say we are right and everyone else is wrong. Guess what? Jesus said He was right, and everyone else was wrong.

How on earth, can so many people claim to follow Jesus Christ and be so vastly different? Not just on baptism, but on a plethora of different things. Listen, the Spirit of truth will guide into all Truth. But when you are in a church which stops that growth because THEY don't believe in it. Then what does the neophyte do? Pastor believes anyone who says they must be baptized in Jesus name, and must be infilled with the Holy Ghost with the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues is a three stepper, and three steppers are bad. Neophyte says, well I see in the Bible Uncle Jim that we must repent, be baptized in Jesus name, and be infilled with the Holy Ghost with speaking in tongues as God gives the utterance. No! No! That's what the mean ugly savagely backward Old Pentecostals believed.



Postmodernism. There is NO TRUTH. If anyone says there is Truth and God forbid they blaspheme by saying they have it. They are arrogant, and therefore a religious leper. 2+2 = 4 that's truth, I have it, get over it. :heeheehee



You see bro, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Somebody is wrong, and somebody is right. I have been with you posting long enough that you believe Ultra Cons, and OTP are wrong on there beliefs. Political correctness and religion doesn't fly at all. It doesn't get off the ground.



Maybe I'm insinuating? Bro, this is what I have always found funny about forums. They complain you do something, then they do the same thing they accused you of back to you. Bro, if you read my post, I was dealing with "steps" 1 step, 3 steps or 666 steps right off the cliff. Bro, your pastor urges people to come to church? To get grounded? To get Bible studies? If soteriology is only one step as you repeatedly remind us, then why even come back to church? Does it wear off?



Oh? You mean there are more steps to take through the doorway down the hallway?



WALK WITH CHRIST.

CC1, do you walk with only one step?

Whatever.

Entertaining to read for sure. Rapture is not in the Bible, but in the context of Christianity, it is a term that, when used, all are familiar with the meaning.

In the context of Pentecostals who baptize verbally using the Name of Jesus, the delineation of "three-steppers" and "one-steppers" is important as it explains how a person goes from "lost" to "saved".

The differences between the 2 views is apparently big enough for the "three-steppers" to disfellowship en masse people who were just days before the split, brothers and sisters.

So it is a big deal and to obfuscate the issue by asking your brother about the amount of steps it takes to walk down a hallway reads really funny... but you're glossing over and minimizing a key doctrinal stance that people of your point of view MADE into a dividing line for fellowship, and thus, brotherhood.

The most interesting part of the "three-stepper" point of view is that the 3rd step in attaining "full salvation" (another term that "three-steppers" frequently use) is about a command as allowing snakes to bite you or to drink poison.

There are several signs that will follow those who believe...

[Esaias]

Entertaining to read for sure. Rapture is not in the Bible, but in the context of Christianity, it is a term that, when used, all are familiar with the meaning.

In the context of Pentecostals who baptize verbally using the Name of Jesus, the delineation of "three-steppers" and "one-steppers" is important as it explains how a person goes from "lost" to "saved".

The differences between the 2 views is apparently big enough for the "three-steppers" to disfellowship en masse people who were just days before the split, brothers and sisters.

So it is a big deal and to obfuscate the issue by asking your brother about the amount of steps it takes to walk down a hallway reads really funny... but you're glossing over and minimizing a key doctrinal stance that people of your point of view MADE into a dividing line for fellowship, and thus, brotherhood.

The most interesting part of the "three-stepper" point of view is that the 3rd step in attaining full salvation is about a command as allowing snakes to bite you or to drink poison.

There are several signs that will follow those who believe...

"Three stepper" is an FCF, nFCF, and AFF invention and has no reality outside this forum and its psychoses.

[Jermyn Davidson]

"Three stepper" is an FCF, nFCF, and AFF invention and has no reality outside this forum and its psychoses.

Maybe, maybe not. Still, within the context of this thread, we all know what is being discussed. "Onesy" isn't commonly used outside of certain other constructs BUT if someone were to ask you if you were, "Onesy" in the context of a Christian doctrinal conversation, you might ask them what they meant, but you would have an idea of what they are talking about BEFORE they ecplained themselves, even if you don't use the term yourself.

[Esaias]

Maybe, maybe not. Still, within the context of this thread, we all know what is being discussed. "Onesy" isn't commonly used outside of certain other constructs BUT if someone were to ask you if you were, "Onesy" in the context of a Christian doctrinal conversation, you might ask them what they meant, but you would have an idea of what they are talking about BEFORE they ecplained themselves, even if you don't use the term yourself.

Onesy? Isn't that something newborns wear?

"Three step" is not an accurate representation of those who believe in the Biblical new birth.

"One step" is also not an accurate description of those who don't believe in the Biblical new birth, either, come to think of it.

Therefore, I reject both terms as contributing nothing but confusion to the subject.

[Evang.Benincasa]

My friend, this is a classy response to read!
:yourock

Classy response?

I'll be praying for you

[Evang.Benincasa]

Maybe, maybe not. Still, within the context of this thread, we all know what is being discussed. "Onesy" isn't commonly used outside of certain other constructs BUT if someone were to ask you if you were, "Onesy" in the context of a Christian doctrinal conversation, you might ask them what they meant, but you would have an idea of what they are talking about BEFORE they ecplained themselves, even if you don't use the term yourself.

Isn't onesies feety pajamas? :lol

You go and tell another Christian the made up FCF term "3 Stepper" They will think you are talking about the Boot Scootin Boogie.

[houston]

"Three stepper" is an FCF, nFCF, and AFF invention and has no reality outside this forum and its psychoses.

I was told about 3 steps in 1997

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/fc/3f/07/fc3f0705d4ce91524c4a42ee96489a56.jpg

[houston]

https://www.spreadshirt.com/image-server/v1/designs/1000082747,width=178,height=178/acts-238-3-steps-to-salvation-heartheaven.png

[houston]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ZnuvcuyPLu8/UaS7bmxCm8I/AAAAAAAAJHY/OXY9QNlcACY/s1600/acts+238back.png

[Evang.Benincasa]

Oh it's a UPC thing?

Ok, so FCF eventually became a shark tank for Ex UPCers to eat each other, and lick each others wounds?

Still if you were to try telling this to anyone outside of Hazelwood and this forum they would lift an eyebrow.

[Esaias]

I was told about 3 steps in 1997

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/fc/3f/07/fc3f0705d4ce91524c4a42ee96489a56.jpg

I've been apostolic Oneness since 1991. I never heard of "three step" until FCF and nFCF.

What about these?

https://answeringthehardlinechurchofchrist.files.wordpress .com/2015/09/steps-os-salvation.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/dk5FQFRgGFU/maxresdefault.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/52/0b/6a/520b6aca21738b4054bb569b884c05ba.jpg

[Evang.Benincasa]

Wow, this is the Boot Scootin Boogie! :heeheehee

[Esaias]

Wow, this is the Boot Scootin Boogie! :heeheehee

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41qEL1%2BGMbL._AC_UL320_SR208,320_.jpg

[Esaias]

Going in another direction:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41jxO1bC1OL._SY445_QL70_.jpg

[Esaias]

https://image.slidesharecdn.com/fifteenstepstohistemple-160904084819/95/fifteen-steps-to-his-temple-ywhu-16-638.jpg?cb=1472979475

[Esaias]

Can't find any higher than 15 so far...

[mizpeh]

The ordo salutis for a Calvinist:

The Ordo Salutis
1. Election - God's choice of a people to be saved took place before the world was made. To the saints at Ephesus Paul wrote, 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world.

2. Predestination - Election is God's choice, and predestination is the pre assigned destination marked out for those He chose, that destination being salvation and full glorification in heaven.

3. Gospel Call (or the outward call of the gospel - outward in that it happens outside of us “ the preaching of the gospel, heard with the physical ear)
The word call, called,� or calling� can be determined by the context in which the words are found. For instance, Jesus said "many are called but few are chosen." These words make sense when we understand that He is referring to the outward call of the gospel.
God uses means to achieve His ends. The ends are the salvation of His elect people; the means being the proclamation of the gospel. The elect will come to Christ, but they do so by the means of hearing the gospel.
Romans 9: 14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?

4. Inward call (where God the Holy Spirit speaks life to the elect's dead human spirit, even as they hear the outward call of the gospel)
As we examine the writings of the Apostle Paul, it would seem that he uses this word called� or calling� to describe the inward call that brings the sinner to spiritual life.
1 Cor 1: 22 - For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 24 but to those who are called (inwardly called), both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
The cross is seen either as a stumbling block or as foolishness to all, except the called.
This inward call always results in.

5. Regeneration (just as Jesus cried out with a loud voice 'Lazarus come forth'� before Lazarus came to life, logically speaking, number 4 (the inward call) has to come before number 5 (regeneration) the inward call has to come before spiritual life (regeneration or being born again or born from above) is imparted.
Jesus - John 3:3 - unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.
2 Cor 4:3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled only to those who are perishing. 4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For what we proclaim is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, with ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake. 6 For God, who said, 'Let light shine out of darkness, has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

6. Conversion (repentance and faith) – we repent, we put faith in Christ, so this is human activity, but is the result of Divine activity.
John 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
1 John 5:1 - Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God. � In the original Greek, the verb tenses in this verse are very revealing. A literal translation reads as follows: All the ones going on believing (pisteuon, a present tense, continuous action) that Jesus is the Christ has been born (gennesanta, perfect tense - an action already complete with abiding effects) of God. The fact that someone is presently going on believing in Christ shows that they have first been born again. Faith is the evidence of regeneration, not the cause of it. Since both repentance and faith are possible only because of the work of God (regeneration), both are called the gift of God in Scripture (2 Tim 2:24-26; Eph. 2:8, 9; Phil. 1:29; Heb 12:2).

7. Justification - God's declaration that a person is just (or right) in His sight. All those who put their trust (faith) in Christ for salvation are justified. Logically then, first there is faith, then there is justification. Romans 5:1 - Therefore having been justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

8. Sanctification - set apart to God - an on-going process in this life, but perfected the moment we step from this life into the next (1 Cor 15:50-55).

9. Glorification. (see Rom 8:28-30) - the Golden Chain of Redemption has 5 links - foreknown, predestined, called, justified, glorified
The Ordo Salutis - Election Predestination Gospel Call Inward Call Regeneration Conversion (repentance and faith) Justification Sanctification Glorification

http://reformationtheology.com/2010/11/ordo_salutis_the_order_of_salv.php

[mizpeh]

I've been apostolic Oneness since 1991. I never heard of "three step" until FCF and nFCF.

What about these?

https://answeringthehardlinechurchofchrist.files.wordpress .com/2015/09/steps-os-salvation.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/dk5FQFRgGFU/maxresdefault.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/52/0b/6a/520b6aca21738b4054bb569b884c05ba.jpg What about Spirit baptism?

[Amanah]

What about Spirit baptism?

The point is that most people believe there is more than "one step" needed for salvation, the concept of "step/steps" is irrelevant.

[Amanah]

A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

Level: Advanced
• Jewish tradition teaches that there are 613 commandments
• This is the list of 613 identified by Rambam
• The order and organization is my own
Below is a list of the 613 mitzvot (commandments). It is based primarily on the list compiled by Rambam in the Mishneh Torah, but I have consulted other sources as well. As I said in the page on halakhah, Rambam's list is probably the most widely accepted list, but it is not the only one. The order is my own, as are the explanations of how some rules are derived from some biblical passages.
For each mitzvah, I have provided a citation to the biblical passage or passages from which it is derived, based primarily on Rambam. For commandments that can be observed today, I have also provided citations to the Chafetz Chayim's Concise Book of Mitzvot (CCA refers to affirmative commandments; CCN refers to negative commandments; CCI refers to commandments that only apply in Israel). Commandments that cannot be observed today primarily relate to the Temple, its sacrifices and services (because the Temple does not exist) and criminal procedures (because the theocratic state of Israel does not exist).

G-d

To know that G-d exists (Ex. 20:2; Deut. 5:6) (CCA1). See What Do Jews Believe?.
Not to entertain the idea that there is any god but the Eternal (Ex. 20:3) (CCN8). See What Do Jews Believe?.
Not to blaspheme (Ex. 22:27; in Christian texts, Ex. 22:28), the penalty for which is death (Lev. 24:16) (negative).
To hallow G-d's name (Lev. 22:32) (CCA5). See The Name of G-d.
Not to profane G-d's name (Lev . 22:32) (CCN155). See The Name of G-d.
To know that G-d is One, a complete Unity (Deut. 6:4) (CCA2). See What Do Jews Believe?.
To love G-d (Deut. 6:5) (CCA3). See What Do Jews Believe?.
To fear Him reverently (Deut. 6:13; 10:20) (CCA4).
Not to put the word of G-d to the test (Deut. 6:16) (negative).
To imitate His good and upright ways (Deut. 28:9) (CCA6).
http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm

[Evang.Benincasa]

The point is that most people believe there is more than "one step" needed for salvation, the concept of "step/steps" is irrelevant.

Excellent!

[Evang.Benincasa]

The (I guess they're to be called) one steppers, are looking to Ray Kroc Churchanity. A more user friendly operation. Hold the pickle, hold the lettuce, special orders don't upset us attitude. You have different beliefs? No problem, just find a seat and the video will play in a few minutes. Let's all just sit and relax while the tattooed hippy girl walks gently through the grass to find a Bible.
Everyone will be jokingly told that the Hippy girl uses a different translation than the pastor. All learned professional behavior right down to the barefoot preacher who looks like he just fell out of bed. Starbucks in the lobby, full tennis court in back yard, and complete Christian book store. Marketing Jesus to another level. The steps are longer than Pilgrim's progress to the Celestial City. Yet, they don't mention that. They are focused on showing people that they just need one small step. Sadly most times right off the edge into a deep wide pit. I'm not saying this eventually will happened, but didn't Carlton Pearson attempt a move into the Industrial Church Complex? I don't mean the Bohemian Tripple Venti White Mocha Latte Churchanity. But the Charismatic conveyor belt glamor Churchanity.
Right down to the part to where everyone is saved, because they will be reconstituted through some sort of Baptist purgertory? Standards drop, and eventually doctrines change in a way to accommodate more customers?

[Amanah]

The (I guess they're to be called) one steppers, are looking to Ray Kroc Churchanity. A more user friendly operation. Hold the pickle, hold the lettuce, special orders don't upset us attitude. You have different beliefs? No problem, just find a seat and the video will play in a few minutes. Let's all just sit and relax while the tattooed hippy girl walks gently through the grass to find a Bible.
Everyone will be jokingly told that the Hippy girl uses a different translation than the pastor. All learned professional behavior right down to the barefoot preacher who looks like he just fell out of bed. Starbucks in the lobby, full tennis court in back yard, and complete Christian book store. Marketing Jesus to another level. The steps are longer than Pilgrim's progress to the Celestial City. Yet, they don't mention that. They are focused on showing people that they just need one small step. Sadly most times right off the edge into a deep wide pit. I'm not saying this eventually will happened, but didn't Carlton Pearson attempt a move into the Industrial Church Complex? I don't mean the Bohemian Tripple Venti White Mocha Latte Churchanity. But the Charismatic conveyor belt glamor Churchanity.
Right down to the part to where everyone is saved, because they will be reconstituted through some sort of Baptist purgertory? Standards drop, and eventually doctrines change in a way to accommodate more customers?

Bro Benincasa if you have a free minute maybe you can comment on this thread

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=51139

[Evang.Benincasa]

Bro Benincasa if you have a free minute maybe you can comment on this thread

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=51139

I did as you requested Lady of Shalott. :thumbsup

[canam]

WEll at least cc1 is right on one thing !! ring the church bells !!

[canam]

What false doctrine did Christ Church fall into?

As long as your in a committed relationship, female or male its all good ?

[Esaias]

As long as your in a committed relationship, female or male its all good ?

:jaw Say what?

[Evang.Benincasa]

:jaw Say what?

No standards, no legalism, no..... :rolleyes2

[returnman]

No standards, no legalism, no..... :rolleyes2

I know where your coming from because I been there. Started back in 1981. Some 20 years later, I didn't start then because the questions had been rolling around for some time. It was at about the 20 year mark that I had to admit there where some errors in the doctrine.

The other thing I wanted to say was that, true there are some 31 flavor churches out there for sure, but don't broad brand CC1's church or likewise just because they are bringing their church outside the four walls. It's easy to make reference to such a variety of things going on in the "church world" to support your argument but you can't say who is and who is not following up with instructing these converts.

[Evang.Benincasa]

I know where your coming from because I been there. Started back in 1981. Some 20 years later, I didn't start then because the questions had been rolling around for some time. It was at about the 20 year mark that I had to admit there where some errors in the doctrine.

What errors in doctrine are you speaking about?

Soteriology?



The other thing I wanted to say was that, true there are some 31 flavor churches out there for sure, but don't broad brand CC1's church or likewise just because they are bringing their church outside the four walls.

I'm a part of house churches, with all due respect you are using language that the Industrial Church Complex uses. Outside of four walls? Even CC1 himself looks at those outside of the industrial church complex as JoJo the Dog Face Boy and the Tattooed Bearded Fat Lady. Freaks who need to do house church because their teachings separated them from mainstream First Church of the 3.0. Unable to function with the rest of Churchdom that they need to remain hidden from the barefoot and Hawaiian shirted pastors


It's easy to make reference to such a variety of things going on in the "church world" to support your argument but you can't say who is and who is not following up with instructing these converts.

The old proverbial saying goes like this, "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck." I'm real sorry, but I didn't grow up in church, I made the journey through all the religious mess, and automat Churchanity. I rode stem to stern, and found that the Apostolic Pentecostals where at least heading in the right direction. Because of their "three steps?" water baptism in Jesus name doesn't mean much if people aint getting filled with the Holy Ghost. But, the Industrial Church Complex is about to meet her zenith. She doesn't even have 31 flavors, because they all taste like vanilla. Every man's burden is the heaviest, and our own perception is our own reality. In the vast ocean of different forms of Christendom can we find a model in the Bible? I've asked for evidence for Jesus, the apostles, or Paul showing a form of Christianity which was inclusive, where some did XYZ, and others did ABC, but dropped DEFG?

Peter was what this forum calls a three stepper? Repent, be baptized in Jesus name, and be infilled with the Holy Ghost. No, Just as I am, sung in a Billy Graham Crusade, by George Beverly Shea. Peter didn't have the organist play low while they dimmed the lights, and they didn't do it on the lawn of Antonia Fortress.

[CC1]

Even CC1 himself looks at those outside of the industrial church complex as JoJo the Dog Face Boy and the Tattooed Bearded Fat Lady. .

That is funny but a little harsh. CC1 does look at the majority of House Church members as personality types who usually subscribe to such a peculiar subset of beliefs within their general belief system, in this case Oneness Pentecostalism, that they are unable to find a brick and mortar church that meets all their checklist of these subset beliefs and / or they are the personality type that doesn't play well with others so since they can't get along take their ball go home and play by themselves or with the handful of folks they can find to worship at home with them either because of or in spite of whatever their peculiar beliefs are.

Sometimes it is beliefs about eschatology that they believe so strongly in it becomes pretty much a heaven or hell issue and they refuse to sit in a church where a pastor teaches differently than they believe.

If society crashes and burns or government persecution grows there may come a time when House Churches become a necessity and there are times where people end up in places with no organized church so turn to House Church as their means to worship. My point being there is nothing prohibited in the bible about House Churches I just point out the motives of many of them are not pure but actually a way out for people who can't get along with others.

[Evang.Benincasa]

That is funny but a little harsh. CC1 does look at the majority of House Church members as personality types who usually subscribe to such a peculiar subset of beliefs within their general belief system, in this case Oneness Pentecostalism, that they are unable to find a brick and mortar church that meets all their checklist of these subset beliefs and / or they are the personality type that doesn't play well with others so since they can't get along take their ball go home and play by themselves or with the handful of folks they can find to worship at home with them either because of or in spite of whatever their peculiar beliefs are.

Sometimes it is beliefs about eschatology that they believe so strongly in it becomes pretty much a heaven or hell issue and they refuse to sit in a church where a pastor teaches differently than they believe.

If society crashes and burns or government persecution grows there may come a time when House Churches become a necessity and there are times where people end up in places with no organized church so turn to House Church as their means to worship. My point being there is nothing prohibited in the bible about House Churches I just point out the motives of many of them are not pure but actually a way out for people who can't get along with others.



CC1, the New Testament doesn't fit what you believe a brick and mortar church to be. We actually don't have a Trinitarian Paul, and Oneness Peter, and a Dualist James. I wonder how do you read the New Testament and walk away with a Jesus who really wasn't focused on pointing towards the narrow way, and tight gate? Your group tends to overlook that, and mix it up with the broad way, and the wide opening. Your pastor thinks it's cute that the hippy girl in his video intro uses another translation? No, he uses this to allow the "others" (visitors) to know it's all good. Come as you are, use whatever translation you feel comfortable with. Because after all, we are here to kick our shoes off and relax. Jesus is not keeping score, He is doesn't care what you believe concerning the godhead, or if you are keeping count of the steps in soteriology. We will leave all that for those ecclesiastical dinosaurs who don't have the brain power to climb up out of the tar pit. It is too funny, to image that the Industrial Church Complex has polished this all the way down to one thousand of an inch tolerance. With the marketing skills which would make Dixon Schwabl take notice.

No, we don't have anything like that in the New Testament. Mainly because they were a small fledgling group. They were the odd ones, they were unpopular, they believed God took the form of a man, and that man was the messiah. Yet, their messiah was born without a father, (due to his mother going to her cousin house and returning pregnant) this messiah ended up getting himself arrested, and executed by the Roman Empire. What did that look like to the Orthodoxy of the first century? Oh, lest not we forget about Orthodoxy's brightest star, Shaul Paulos, a Rabbi from a Roman Patrician family who claimed to have an epiphany on a trip to arrest these followers of the dead messiah.

So, CC1, where were their mainstream brick and mortar cathedrals? Oh, yep, some were heads of synagogues. Yet, when the local Judeans found out about the affiliations they had to "the Way" they got the snot beat out of them.

CC1, what you purpose didn't exist during the first century all the way to the 4th century. Not until Christianity became the state religion.

So, maybe you can show us the mainstream church you envision in the pages of the Bible. :)

[consapente89]

You ever attend a "Brick and Morter" church EB? Or fellowship anyone that does? Are you involved in any particular "circle of fellowship"? Just curious.

[returnman]

CC1, the New Testament doesn't fit what you believe a brick and mortar church to be. We actually don't have a Trinitarian Paul, and Oneness Peter, and a Dualist James. I wonder how do you read the New Testament and walk away with a Jesus who really wasn't focused on pointing towards the narrow way, and tight gate? Your group tends to overlook that, and mix it up with the broad way, and the wide opening. Your pastor thinks it's cute that the hippy girl in his video intro uses another translation? No, he uses this to allow the "others" (visitors) to know it's all good. Come as you are, use whatever translation you feel comfortable with. Because after all, we are here to kick our shoes off and relax. Jesus is not keeping score, He is doesn't care what you believe concerning the godhead, or if you are keeping count of the steps in soteriology. We will leave all that for those ecclesiastical dinosaurs who don't have the brain power to climb up out of the tar pit. It is too funny, to image that the Industrial Church Complex has polished this all the way down to one thousand of an inch tolerance. With the marketing skills which would make Dixon Schwabl take notice.

No, we don't have anything like that in the New Testament. Mainly because they were a small fledgling group. They were the odd ones, they were unpopular, they believed God took the form of a man, and that man was the messiah. Yet, their messiah was born without a father, (due to his mother going to her cousin house and returning pregnant) this messiah ended up getting himself arrested, and executed by the Roman Empire. What did that look like to the Orthodoxy of the first century? Oh, lest not we forget about Orthodoxy's brightest star, Shaul Paulos, a Rabbi from a Roman Patrician family who claimed to have an epiphany on a trip to arrest these followers of the dead messiah.

So, CC1, where were their mainstream brick and mortar cathedrals? Oh, yep, some were heads of synagogues. Yet, when the local Judeans found out about the affiliations they had to "the Way" they got the snot beat out of them.

CC1, what you purpose didn't exist during the first century all the way to the 4th century. Not until Christianity became the state religion.

So, maybe you can show us the mainstream church you envision in the pages of the Bible. :)

Okay, so we've ruled out any hope for the large mass non-apostolic church and house church. Let's make sure we get the small town church and every other name, locale under heaven included in that hopeless state as well. I only wish somehow God would quit leading folks down this never ending hopeless road and steer them to "truth". We'll understand it someday. Oooops, sorry forgot the road is narrow anyway.

[Evang.Benincasa]

You ever attend a "Brick and Morter" church EB? Or fellowship anyone that does? Are you involved in any particular "circle of fellowship"? Just curious.

I know, I know, CC1, has everyone convinced that we are bridge trolls and therefore house church is a doctrinal issue. We have brothers who have buildings. We have brothers who are going to one day get a building. We also wear shoes.

[consapente89]

I know, I know, CC1, has everyone convinced that we are bridge trolls and therefore house church is a doctrinal issue. We have brothers who have buildings. We have brothers who are going to one day get a building. We also wear shoes.

Whoa! CC1 doesn't have me convinced of ANYTHING! If he told me it was raining I'd ask him for book, chapter and verse. It really was just a general question. Basically....where do you fit? Or...do you fit?

From your posting on here it seems like the only thing that would distance you from the guys I run around with would be your eschatology...and the fact that you post on AFF... :heeheehee

[Evang.Benincasa]

Okay, so we've ruled out any hope for the large mass non-apostolic church and house church. Let's make sure we get the small town church and every other name, locale under heaven included in that hopeless state as well. I only wish somehow God would quit leading folks down this never ending hopeless road and steer them to "truth". We'll understand it someday. Oooops, sorry forgot the road is narrow anyway.

I have to remember that a great majority of Apostolic Pentecostals don't believe in free will. Because after all, free will is the decision maker which allows us to follow His will. While some may want to mock the idea of Matthew 7:13-14. Yet, we can't subtract it from the teachings of Christ.

Listen, it would be nice if this was just like Hinduism. Everyone is tethered to their own path of fate. No matter how hard you try you can't escape fate leading you either down the good path or a very bad road. After you have made these journeys, you still have to deal with kharma, plus the cycle of life. You still need to be reincarnated either in a higher level, or a lower level, depending on kharma. It isn't, we are talking about the teachings of Jesus Christ, and no matter what we would like, it is His way, or no way. The apostles didn't have the artistic licence to create their own private Idaho. Peter warned that only the unstable and unlearned did that to their own destruction. Again, no Baptist Paul, Church of Christ Peter, or Roman Catholic James. Paul admonished them to agree and all be on the same page. Yet, the Industrial Church Complex is mainly focused on getting larger, more bricks more mortar, more pews, all made to order. No one is encouraged to receive the Holy Ghost, but to join one of the many ministries available. Cell groups, helping hands ministry, Deeper Life classes, all the BMW Soccer mom things to do to get us closer to the Izod Lacoste Jesus.

Doctrine isn't an issue as it is in the First Church of the Old Time Pentecostal Cro Magnon. Yes, the Industrial Church Complex believes in teaching, but in the form of book, by books of the Bible. Where everyone is taught how to behave nice. Don't get me wrong the hippy pastor is going to teach how everyone should not fornicate, because after all a lot of these guys go to these types of churches to meet the tattooed hippy girl. So, that teaching has to be in there somewhere. But godhead? Soteriology? no, not really, because those are too controversial, and we are trying to win people to ...Christ?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Whoa! CC1 doesn't have me convinced of ANYTHING! If he told me it was raining I'd ask him for book, chapter and verse. It really was just a general question. Basically....where do you fit? Or...do you fit?

From your posting on here it seems like the only thing that would distance you from the guys I run around with would be your eschatology...and the fact that you post on AFF... :heeheehee

You are posting here too.

Believe me, those guys lurk. :heeheehee

[CC1]

Your group tends to overlook that, and mix it up with the broad way, and the wide opening. Your pastor thinks it's cute that the hippy girl in his video intro uses another translation? No, he uses this to allow the "others" (visitors) to know it's all good. Come as you are, use whatever translation you feel comfortable with. Because after all, we are here to kick our shoes off and relax. Jesus is not keeping score, He is doesn't care what you believe concerning the godhead, or if you are keeping count of the steps in soteriology. We will leave all that for those ecclesiastical dinosaurs who don't have the brain power to climb up out of the tar pit. It is too funny, to image that the Industrial Church Complex has polished this all the way down to one thousand of an inch tolerance. With the marketing skills which would make Dixon Schwabl take notice.

No, we don't have anything like that in the New Testament. Mainly because they were a small fledgling group. They were the odd ones, they were unpopular, they believed God took the form of a man, and that man was the messiah. Yet, their messiah was born without a father, (due to his mother going to her cousin house and returning pregnant) this messiah ended up getting himself arrested, and executed by the Roman Empire. What did that look like to the Orthodoxy of the first century? Oh, lest not we forget about Orthodoxy's brightest star, Shaul Paulos, a Rabbi from a Roman Patrician family who claimed to have an epiphany on a trip to arrest these followers of the dead messiah.

So, CC1, where were their mainstream brick and mortar cathedrals? Oh, yep, some were heads of synagogues. Yet, when the local Judeans found out about the affiliations they had to "the Way" they got the snot beat out of them.

CC1, what you purpose didn't exist during the first century all the way to the 4th century. Not until Christianity became the state religion.

So, maybe you can show us the mainstream church you envision in the pages of the Bible. :)

If anybody listens to my pastors sermons they will find your characterization of his beliefs and approach are fundamentally wrong. Sure he is miles away from old time Pentecost but believes the bible is the word of God and what it says matters, that God's values, morals, etc are timeless and apply to today. He believes that Jesus Christ is the one and only way to God and heaven, etc.

As far as "marketing" goes we do not advertise. Our growth and evangelism has been by word of mouth. We do not do any promotions enticing people to come to church. No giveaways on Easter Sunday's, no Sunday School contests, etc. We never bring in any outside preachers or singing groups to draw a crowd. I think my pastor was much more comfortable and in his element when the church was a couple hundred people vs 3,000+ now.

So I have absolutely no problem with you disagreeing with my pastors doctrine, "standards, etc but where i take offense is your mis characterization that he has no specific doctrines and is in it to be cool or an ego and built the church through some kind of slick marketing. just not true.

[Evang.Benincasa]

So I have absolutely no problem with you disagreeing with my pastors doctrine, "standards, etc but where i take offense is your mischaracterization that he has no specific doctrines and is in it to be cool or an ego and built the church through some kind of slick marketing. just not true.

Don't ever take offense, because I don't take offense when you mischaracterize what I believe. Call it good, throw out your chest, suck in your stomach muscles, and let's continue forward in grace and peace.

Does your pastor teach on the godhead? Is the godhead important? How about this, is the godhead important to you? Why do you baptize people? Will people be saved without baptism? Can someone make heaven without baptism? I already have been told that speaking in tongues is a non issue, and therefore receiving the Holy Ghost is a nonissue. Bro, I have friends who don't have outer standards, but they are solid on your so called Lynyrd Skynyrd "gimme three steps" soteriology. Bro, I don't know your pastor, you know I don't know your pastor. I'm just saying that it's all marketing, plain and simple.

I know, I know, you guys don't have billboards saying eat at Pepes. Yet, the marketing happens when you sit in the pew. I came into this not because you Pentecostals had good music, or a tattooed hippy girl in a sundress tripping over ESVs in the tall grass.

I came into the Apostolic faith because you guys had book, chapter, and verse. Brother JT Bass, blew me away by saying that over and over again. He preached One God and Jesus name baptism with the infilling of the Holy Ghost with tongues. I almost hillclimbed to the third heaven. The Apostolics told me they were the people of the name. They proved it, with explanation that Jesus was His name, and that name was important. That was the launching pad, the Bible, what they believed, and how they told me to prove what you believe. You left in your 20s? Bro, that's like a guy who gave up riding Harley Davidson because the kickstarter kicked back on him and it hurt. Next day bike is up for sale. Was Peter a Baptist? Ws Paul Assembly of gods? Was Titus an Episcopal minister? Was James a Catholic? We just don't have the scripture for the circus train wreck the Industrial Church Complex believes. Your pastor? Bro, forget him, how about you? Your pastor is a young guy who is on his own journey, going places you may not want to follow. or you may want to follow, depending on which direction he chooses.

But, the New Testament doesn't paint a picture of the Who's Magic Bus riding through the pearly gates. Just because everyone was nicer than Jesus. People were sweet, kind, baked cookies for their crackhead neighbors, or led Satan through a sinner's prayer. It isn't AA, or NA, where we are to do this through our own human discipline. We are to go through the water way in Jesus name, be saturated with His Spirit and endued with power from on high. That is in an altar where tears pour like hot faucets, and noses run like mucus hot air balloons .


If anybody listens to my pastors sermons they will find your characterization of his beliefs and approach are fundamentally wrong. Sure he is miles away from old time Pentecost but believes the bible is the word of God and what it says matters, that God's values, morals, etc are timeless and apply to today. He believes that Jesus Christ is the one and only way to God and heaven, etc.

Please, please, listen. Think about it. Who doesn't say the above about whatever religion or sect they are involved with? My pastor, yada yada, believes the bible is the word of God yada yada and what it says matters blah, blah that God's values, morals, etc, etc, and etc. Pastor, priest, bishop, overseer, apostle, guru believes that Jesus Christ is the one and only way to God and heaven? Seriously? Come on already, who in their right mind would say different? Moses David Berg of the Children of God would state the exact same thing, as would his devotees. As would David Koresh of the Branch Davidians, Jim Jones when he was in his prime, Yoneq Sprigg and the 12 Tribes community say the same exact things. But all believe in teachings so beyond what even your pastor believes. People who leave Mainstream congregations, and the First Church of the Coin operated Bible, do it because they read the scripture, but see more of a your OK I'm Ok teaching when it comes to doctrines. Trinitarians are saved? Why? How? They believe that Jesus is a second person to a greater whole, and that there are two other persons who are as separate as He is. The pastor then throw up their hands telling you its a mystery. Pastor is Joe saved? Well, my boy, God has to determine that. So, as the Eastern Orthodox preacher once told me, "You guys all believe the Bible is a magic book" Was he wrong? Because all he sees a churches who agree to disagree on verses in the Bible. In order to fill more pews. We went from zero to hero and we are now 3,000 +!!!

Plus what? 3,000 what? Navy Seals aren't looking for quantity, they are looking for quality. Yet, the Church wants to count heads, and feel good about a crowd. When Jesus only pointed to a little flock. Something wrong?


As far as "marketing" goes we do not advertise.

City Hall lawn was done for what reason?

Come on man, wipe the sleep from your eyes my brother.


Our growth and evangelism has been by word of mouth. We do not do any promotions enticing people to come to church. No giveaways on Easter Sunday's, no Sunday School contests, etc. We never bring in any outside preachers or singing groups to draw a crowd. I think my pastor was much more comfortable and in his element when the church was a couple hundred people vs 3,000+ now.


If you believe that, you have swallowed the blue pill and washed it all down with Kool-Aid.