Is Jesus Christ The Man Jesus Christ Now ? [Archive]

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Scott Hutchinson

06-18-2007, 08:59 PM

mfblume

06-18-2007, 09:30 PM

Yes.

The MAN Chirst Jesus IS, present tense, mediator.

He is a man just as we will be in our glorified states. We shall be like Him as He presently is.

1Ti 2:5 KJV For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1Jo 3:2 KJV Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Michael The Disciple

06-18-2007, 09:53 PM

Jesus is a man but NOT fully man.

45: And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46: Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47: The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48: As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49: And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 1 Cor. 15:45-49

There is a difference between the earthly and the heavenly man.

Praxeas

06-18-2007, 10:45 PM

Michael The Disciple

06-18-2007, 11:23 PM

He is an extraordinary MAN. He is man like this being from the Tanakh was man.

5: Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz:
6: His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude. Dan. 10:5-6

A man? Yes but different from other men.

philjones

06-19-2007, 06:23 AM

Yes.

The MAN Chirst Jesus IS, present tense, mediator.

He is a man just as we will be in our glorified states. We shall be like Him as He presently is.

Bro. Blume,

Do you not believe that His mediation is in the perpetuity of the work of the cross rather than in some actual present tense mediation going on between the flesh and the Spirit of God?

I do not believe for one second that the man Christ Jesus is running around glory interceding for me. I think his intercession was accomplished at the Cross and He is now God Almighty my redeemer and savior.

mfblume

06-19-2007, 10:50 AM

Bro. Blume,

Do you not believe that His mediation is in the perpetuity of the work of the cross rather than in some actual present tense mediation going on between the flesh and the Spirit of God?

No I do not. I say this because we distinctly reasd he ever liveth TO MAKE INTERCESSION for the saints. It does not say He ever liveth AFTER HE MADE intercession.

I believe He actually sits there as mediator right now and until all enemies are under his feet, when death is destroyed. The aspect of sitting til all enemies are under his feet was a present day reality to Paul, while Paul was saved long after the cross.

Heb 7:24-27 KJV But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. (25) Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. (26) For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; (27) Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

HE HAS an uncheangeable preisthood, NOT HAD as if it was past tense.

Although the cross occurred once and for all, He continues to intercede as high priest. Since intercession is mentioned explicitly as something occuring due to His ever living state, contrasted with the old testament priests who died and ended their ministries, I see a continuing intercession and priesthood.

I also believe He is STILL FULLY MAN AND FULLY GOD. Simply because He has glorified flesh, does not mean he is not still fully man. He is simply fully man as God created man to be... without death, as we shall be.

I do not believe for one second that the man Christ Jesus is running around glory interceding for me.

Well, we have to disagree here too. He is seated (not running around - ;)) making intercession for me! Present tense. :)

I think his intercession was accomplished at the Cross and He is now God Almighty my redeemer and savior.

I disagree his intercession was finished at the cross. He BEGAN intercession as PRIEST AFTER the cross. He is STILL making intercession. Otherwise we would not read "He ever liveth TO MAKE INTERCESSION for us". The point of Hebrews is to teach that He does not exchange positions with anotehr as in the days of old. He continues always. He is PRIEST UPON HIS THRONE.

He never even entered the most holy place TIL AFTER THE CROSS when He presented His blood. How could he be high priest while ON the cross?

He is God almighty and redeemer and saviour, BUT ALSO HIGH PRIEST Still.

Zec 6:13 KJV Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

If He sat on the throne after His priesthood was done, we would not read HE IS "PRIEST UPON HIS THRONE".

Notice the COUNSEL OF HIS PEACE SHALL BE BETWEEN THEM BOTH. Mediator!

mfblume

06-19-2007, 10:52 AM

Here are my thoughts about the issue and how He is still indeed our High Priest and will be until one day in the future when it's all said and done.

The Book of Hebrews is the source for all information about this issue. The third verse in the entire book lays it out clearly.

Heb 1:1-3 KJVR God who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, (2) Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; (3) Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

His work of purging our sins is clearly involving His High Priestly duties. But it is easy to miss the fact that the second portion of the issue is not recognized as High Priestly duties as well.

...sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high

All of this can only be understood in light of the truth regarding His priesthood after the order of Melchisedek.

Melchisedek was a perfect type of Jesus' present ministry as High Priest, whereas Aaron's Priesthood simply fell short. Aaron only particpated in purging of sins, albeit only for a yeat, in atonement. But Aaron died, and Aaron's priesthood ended. However, Christ is foreshdaowed more perfectly by Melchisedek.

Melchisedek was both king and priest at the same time. Zechariah foretold Christ's ministry as Priest WHILE SITTING ON THE THRONE.

Zec 6:13 KJVR Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

Hebrews said that Christ purged our sins and sat down on the throne of majesty on high. This is referring to His Priesthood after the Order of Melchisedek. There is no record of Melchisedek's death, nor genealogy, when genealogy was EVERYTHING in Aaron's Levitical priesthood.

Heb 7:1-3 KJVR For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; (2) To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; (3) Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Since Christ continues past death in priesthood, Aaron's priesthood fails to typify Him. Aaron's poresthood could only bring redemption and continue until Aaron's death, but Christ ever liveth to make intercession for us!

Heb 7:25 KJVR Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Melchisedek's lack of record of death is a type of Christ's never ending priesthood. Christ EVER LIVETH in ORDER TO MAKE INTERCESSION. His intercession was not solely through his death! It CONTINUES ON today! But it is not for redemption, since that is already our's. He intercedes now, and is High Priest on the throne NOW, for victory in day to day living AFTER we are saved.

People WHO COME TO HIM NOW are able to be saved to the uttermost BECAUSE HE LIVES NOW AS INTERCESSOR for them. If He was only intercessor for them at his death, we would not read of Him EVER living to make intercession, and we would not read that this is the reason people who COME TO HIM NOW can be saved to the uttermost!

If the priesthood never ends, then we cannot say it stopped at Calvary and only its effects continue.

H2H

06-19-2007, 10:55 AM

No I do not. I say this because we distinctly reasd he ever liveth TO MAKE INTERCESSION for the saints. It does not say He ever liveth AFTER HE MADE intercession.

I believe He actually sits there as mediator right now and until all enemies are under his feet, when death is destroyed. The aspect of sitting til all enemies are under his feet was a present day reality to Paul, while Paul was saved long after the cross.

HE HAS an uncheangeable preisthood, NOT HAD as if it was past tense.

Although the cross occurred once and for all, He continues to intercede as high priest. Since intercession is mentioned explicitly as something occuring due to His ever living state, contrasted with the old testament priests who died and ended their ministries, I see a continuing intercession and priesthood.

I also believe He is STILL FULLY MAN AND FULLY GOD. Simply because He has glorified flesh, does not mean he is not still fully man. He is simply fully man as God created man to be... without death, as we shall be.

Well, we have to disagree here too. He is seated making intercession for me! Present tense. :)

I disagree his intercession was finished at the cross. He BEGAN intercession as PRIEST AFTER the cross. He is STILL making intercession. Otherwise we would not read "He ever liveth TO MAKE INTERCESSION for us". The point of Hebrews is to teach that He does not exchange positions with anotehr as in the days of old. He continues always. He is PRIEST UPON HIS THRONE.

He is God almighty and redeemer and saviour, BUT ALSO HIGH PRIEST Still.

If He sat on the throne after His priesthood was done, we would not read HE IS "PRIEST UPON HIS THRONE".

Notice the COUNSEL OF HIS PEACE SHALL BE BETWEEN THEM BOTH. Mediator!

Brother Blume, Even though you have left the faith :lol:lol I appreciate your work and studious endevors. God bless You.

mfblume

06-19-2007, 10:55 AM

Bro Jones, bear with me as I describe why I say this.. I love this issue. Hebrews is one of my favourite books of the bible.

Jesus does a work in heaven since He did a work on the cross. Hebrews elucidates on those two works.

Saving us to the uttermost is going FAR PAST salvation from sin. It is saving us to such a degree that we overcome sin everyday of our lives! And we read at the end of Hebrews 6 how Jesus has entered for us into the holiest, past the veil, as forerunner. He is in there now, seated as King and High Priest. And when we truly believe Him for all He is there for us to experience, we have this victory over sin. And that is spiritually saying we entered with Him into the Holiest. Having total victory, so as not to turn back, as many of the Hebrews had, and others were in danger of doing, is spiritually called dwelling in the most holy place.

Heb 6:18-20 KJV That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: (19) Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; (20) Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

His work on the earth on the cross in death and resurrection was a priestly work similar to Aaron's Levitical priesthood. But the present priestly ministry beyond the veil, seated in the holiest of holies is a work foreshadowed by the Melchisedek Priesthood. It is not a ministry to purge us from sins, since that is already done. It is a ministry to lift us to absolute victory NOW.

It seems people only know about the PAST and the FUTURE, but not the NOW. In the past we were purged from sins. In the future we shall be taken to heaven with the Lord. BUT WHAT ABOUT NOW???? That is virtually unknown. The most anyone thinks of NOW is to save souls, and that is awesome. But there is more victory for our personal lives, so we are not in danger of falling back and so forth. THIS present victory is only achieved, though, if we can learn about the Melchisedek priesthood of NOW in Christ, and experience the empowerment for which He is making intercession for us now.

Again, it is not a priesthood to purge us from sins, since that is done. It is to give us total victory NOW before we leave this world for glory.

mfblume

06-19-2007, 10:56 AM

Hart2Hart,

I think I am proposing the true faith that was once delivered to the saints. :D

Haha.

Heb 7:24 KJV But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

Does the MAN contune forever or not? Read above.

Notice the indication his priesthood is ongoing through now into the future, since His ascension. His priesthood required a continuing LIFE. If his priesthood was in death only and is now done and over with, why did He require a continuing life in order to have an unchangeable priesthood? That would make no sense.

Hence...

Heb 7:25 KJV Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

He has an unchangeable priesthood, that death cannot hinder nor affect in any way, since He never will die....

Rom 6:9-10 KJV Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. (10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

HE LIVETH UNTO GOD....

This proves there remains a distinction between the WILL of the MAN Christ Jesus and His deity. :) LIVETH is not PAST but PRESENT AND ONGOING. It is a NOW thing.

We know this because it is an example for us wherein we find the SAME TWO blessings Christ enjoys now applied to us....

Rom 6:11 KJV Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Christ is not alive unto HIMSELF as a MAN. He is our example and living unto DEITY, as High Priest, MINISTERING TO DEITY, just as WE ARE ALIVE UNTO GOD in the LIKEWISE fashion. "LIKEWISE" indicates that we experience the same thing Christ experiences. And since Christ died once to sin, we LIKEWISE are DEAD INDEED unto sin. And since Christ is alive unto God, we LIKEWISE are alive unto God. Our wills are distinct from God's will, so that demands Christ's WILL AS A MAN is distinct, but in full obedience to the will of GOD, when He is described as one who "liveth unto God". And all the while HE IS ONE PERSON! :)

mfblume

06-19-2007, 10:59 AM

Heb 7:26-27 KJV For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; (27) Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

He offered Hiimself up ONCE, but that does not mean He is presently not high priest! He continues as High Priest in interceeding since the sacrifice was completed 2000 years ago.

Heb 8:1-2 KJV Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; (2) A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

WE HAVE, not HAD, a great high priest NOW SITTING on the right hand of the THRONE. He IS a minister of the sanctuary, NOT WAS a minister, as though he no longer is priest. And HE IS in the santuary that God picthed in the heavens. This is still occuring NOW. Notice the IS references to His priesthood and sanctuary in which he ministers.

mfblume

06-19-2007, 11:00 AM

Hey, look how much study I have put into this! (H2H, thanks for your kind words, btw). I am open for correction, but after seeing these points, what can one say?

The book of Hebrews was written to ward off the backsliding the Hebrew believers were experiencing in going back into Judaism. So Hebrews shows how the New Covenant is so much greater than the Old. And in that explanation, we read of Aaron's Levitical priesthood simply not cutting it when it came to what Christ was doing NOW.

Hebrews not only touched upon the backsliding Hebrews, but worked to convince the people they were on the right track with Jesus, and should they get hold of His PRESENT priesthood, they will also be so strong that they would inherit the blessings of Abraham... and many of which were for us in this life before we ever get to glory!

Heb 8:4-6 KJV For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest

This indicates HE IS PRIEST NOW, since He is not on earth.

..., seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

Priests were already in earth in the early church days. So Christ would have no need of being so had he been in earth instead of having ascended.

(5) Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. (6) But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry,

BUT NOW...

He is not in earth NOW. NOW He is in glory, so the only answer is that HE CAN BE PRIEST, which He is.

...by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

He IS the mediator... NOT WAS. That means He mediates NOW.

Heb 8:7-10 KJV For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. (8) For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: (9) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. (10) For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Notice the change in the context. Hebrews speaks about how the old covenant had a fault in that the people involved could NOT CONTINUE. They failed personally. Law only told them how to live and never empowered them to do so. And if that was the fault that moved God to make a new covenant, the remedy was a covenant in which they COULD CONTINUE. And the way this is done is as follows:

...I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

By putting His laws into our minds and hearts, OUR NATURES are affected so as to be ABLE to keep those laws as if by NATURE.

This is all part of Christ's High Priesthood empowering us to have victory.

Hebrews 9 continues by saying the earthly priesthood of Aaron's line had a worldly sanctuary, but Christ PRESENTLY is in a heavenly one.

Aaron could not enter and dwell in the holiest on earth. So he cannto typify Christ's present ministry well enough. He covered the type of Christ's work on the cross, but Melchisedek's priesthood adequately typified that present ministry which is in the holiest. Nothing about Aaron's priesthood could provide POWER to for the people to "continue". But since Melchisedek was KING on the throne as well as Priest, he showed how Christ would dwell in the holiest throneroom as KING to empower us.

Hebrews 9 shows how Aaron's presthood could not dwell in the holiest, and how Christ is dwelling in the holiest now as Priest.

Heb 9:7-8 KJV But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: (8) The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

Heb 9:11-12 KJV But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; (12) Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Christ empowers us to LIVE and CONTINUE in our covenant.

Heb 9:14 KJV How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

HE IS mediator... NOT WAS.

Heb 9:15 KJV And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

We have to abandon all these references to IS if we say he is not priest still now.

Heb 9:24-25 KJV For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: (25) Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

Jesus went far beyond anything Aaron could typify. He entered into HEAVEN's holiest and IS STIL THERE DWELLING, whereas Aaron could only enter for a few moments ONCE A YEAR.

He sat down in there, since the offering was done forever. Aaron had to go in and leave again only to do the sacrifice again next year. Not Jesus. He offered once, and sits DOWN IN THE THRONE IN THE HOLIEST! He is priest WHILE ON THE THRONE!

Chan

06-19-2007, 11:10 AM

We know that Jesus Christ was God manifested in Human Flesh ,He was The Only Begotten Son Of God.
We know that He was crucified on the cross ,and He was buried and rose again the third day.
He arose bodily and ascended into Heaven so does Jesus Christ possess a Human body now ?
Some statements of faith ,read like this they say we believe Jesus Christ is both God and Man ,The God Man or something to that effect so is Jesus Christ the man Christ Jesus now Since He has a Spiritual Body now ?Yes, He is the man Christ Jesus even now and serves as the one mediator between God and man - just as the scripture says.

Pressing-On

06-19-2007, 11:16 AM

Heb 7:24 KJV But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

Notice the indication his priesthood is ongoing through now into the future, since His ascension. His priesthood required a continuing LIFE. If his priesthood was in death only and is now done and over with, why did He require a continuing life in order to have an unchangeable priesthood? That would make no sense.

Hence...

He has an unchangeable priesthood, that death cannot hinder nor affect in any way, since He never will die....

Amen! Here is His unchanging and continuing Priesthood!

Romans 8:26

26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

mfblume

06-19-2007, 11:23 AM

Amen! Here is His unchanging and continuing Priesthood!

Romans 8:26

26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Exactly.

Where is our intercession coming from if there is no priesthood NOW?

Saints need to read Hebrews more carefully. ;) He was not priest on the cross. He was sacrifice. And AFTER the sacrifice was made, He netered the mnost holy place iN HEAVEN where the PRIESTLY MINISTRY occurred. The priestly ministry did not occur on earth. There WERE PRIESTS on earth, in his day. hebrews makes that a claim to the fact He is priest NOW in heaven.

Heb 8:4 KJV For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

Heb 8:6 KJV But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Heb 9:24 KJV For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

He is PRIEST IN HEAVEN, not earth.

Pressing-On

06-19-2007, 11:25 AM

Exactly.

Where is our intercession coming from if there is no priesthood NOW?

Ya need to read Hebrews more carefully. ;)
I thought I did read it carefully. lol

mfblume

06-19-2007, 11:28 AM

I thought I did read it carefully. lol

Yes, you did. But I was referring to those who disagree with your great answer. Sorry for my lack of clarity! :)

Pressing-On

06-19-2007, 11:30 AM

Yes, you did. But I was referring to those who disagree with your great answer. Sorry for my lack of clarity! :)

Thanks, you normally don't confuse me. lol!

Pressing-On

06-19-2007, 11:33 AM

Exactly.

Where is our intercession coming from if there is no priesthood NOW?

Saints need to read Hebrews more carefully. ;) He was not priest on the cross. He was sacrifice. And AFTER the sacrifice was made, He netered the mnost holy place iN HEAVEN where the PRIESTLY MINISTRY occurred. The priestly ministry did not occur on earth. There WERE PRIESTS on earth, in his day. hebrews makes that a claim to the fact He is priest NOW in heaven.

He is PRIEST IN HEAVEN, not earth.
Yes, and the point being the scripture you referenced as referring to "the figures" or typology as we term it:

Heb 9:24 KJV For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

Michael The Disciple

06-19-2007, 11:34 AM

As a man Jesus is subject to God. There is a real relationship.

1: The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Rev. 1:1

Pressing-On

06-19-2007, 11:35 AM

mfblume

06-19-2007, 11:47 AM

mfblume

06-19-2007, 12:05 PM

Chan

06-20-2007, 10:24 AM

You know, folks, people can say this is not so and that is not so, but we need bible to substantiate our claims. Disagree, fine. But until bible evidence is supplied to prove your point, then the disagreement is foundless. I cannot see how, in light of all the scriptures we provided in Hebrews, a person can say Christ is not still acting as High Priest in Heaven, making intercession for us as we speak.
Well, here's the one supporting what I said earlier: 1 Timothy 2:5 tells us, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (underlining is mine for emphasis).

mfblume

06-21-2007, 01:43 PM

Well, here's the one supporting what I said earlier: 1 Timothy 2:5 tells us, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (underlining is mine for emphasis).

And that is all we need to substantiate that He is STILL ACTING as high priest now.

And there's lots more.

Steve Epley

06-21-2007, 09:04 PM

No I do not. I say this because we distinctly reasd he ever liveth TO MAKE INTERCESSION for the saints. It does not say He ever liveth AFTER HE MADE intercession.

I believe He actually sits there as mediator right now and until all enemies are under his feet, when death is destroyed. The aspect of sitting til all enemies are under his feet was a present day reality to Paul, while Paul was saved long after the cross.

HE HAS an uncheangeable preisthood, NOT HAD as if it was past tense.

Although the cross occurred once and for all, He continues to intercede as high priest. Since intercession is mentioned explicitly as something occuring due to His ever living state, contrasted with the old testament priests who died and ended their ministries, I see a continuing intercession and priesthood.

I also believe He is STILL FULLY MAN AND FULLY GOD. Simply because He has glorified flesh, does not mean he is not still fully man. He is simply fully man as God created man to be... without death, as we shall be.

Well, we have to disagree here too. He is seated (not running around - ;)) making intercession for me! Present tense. :)

I disagree his intercession was finished at the cross. He BEGAN intercession as PRIEST AFTER the cross. He is STILL making intercession. Otherwise we would not read "He ever liveth TO MAKE INTERCESSION for us". The point of Hebrews is to teach that He does not exchange positions with anotehr as in the days of old. He continues always. He is PRIEST UPON HIS THRONE.

He never even entered the most holy place TIL AFTER THE CROSS when He presented His blood. How could he be high priest while ON the cross?

He is God almighty and redeemer and saviour, BUT ALSO HIGH PRIEST Still.

If He sat on the throne after His priesthood was done, we would not read HE IS "PRIEST UPON HIS THRONE".

Notice the COUNSEL OF HIS PEACE SHALL BE BETWEEN THEM BOTH. Mediator!

Call the law we totally agree.

Steve Epley

06-21-2007, 09:07 PM

Elder Blume on this subject we do agree.

At Calvary he was the sacrifice he resurrected to become the High Priest.

mfblume

06-21-2007, 10:16 PM

Elder Blume on this subject we do agree.

At Calvary he was the sacrifice he resurrected to become the High Priest.

Bro., I think we agree on REALLY MAJOR issues, you know. :)

Steve Epley

06-22-2007, 08:33 AM

mfblume

06-22-2007, 09:05 AM

Bishop S. C. Johnson taught there is NO Son of God Now he had a pamphlet on it.
Some in the area I was raised in believed this. However the Bible clearly says He is the most certainly the Son now and as Son He is our Great High Priest.
The late R.C. Cavaness used to say we need a High Priest in the Church as bad as we needed a Saviour in the world. I believe it.

Amen. Hebrews clearly teaches this, but Hebrews is heavy meat, so not much studied.

The work on the cross was for salvation, similar to Moses' work in getting Israel out of Egypt. But the work presently occurring in heaven by Christ as High Priest is far beyond that, and similar to JOSHUA to GET US INTO THE MOST HOLY PLACE, spiritually speaking, where we overcome things in life. Most are satisfied with being out of Egypt. And they never overcome much. But the priesthood occurring NOW is intercession intended to see us overcome.

Neck

06-22-2007, 09:10 AM

We know that Jesus Christ was God manifested in Human Flesh ,He was The Only Begotten Son Of God.
We know that He was crucified on the cross ,and He was buried and rose again the third day.
He arose bodily and ascended into Heaven so does Jesus Christ possess a Human body now ?
Some statements of faith ,read like this they say we believe Jesus Christ is both God and Man ,The God Man or something to that effect so is Jesus Christ the man Christ Jesus now Since He has a Spiritual Body now ?

I believe he told Mary not to touch him in the Garden. He ascended and then appeared unto the 12.

Thomas then touched him and felt the nail prints.

Does having a human body then glorified erase the human form?

I believe he is Body and Spirit.

We will be the same and still maintain our human form.

Neck

06-22-2007, 09:16 AM

Amen. Hebrews clearly teaches this, but Hebrews is heavy meat, so not much studied.

The work on the cross was for salvation, similar to Moses' work in getting Israel out of Egypt. But the work presently occurring in heaven by Christ as High Priest is far beyond that, and similar to JOSHUA to GET US INTO THE MOST HOLY PLACE, spiritually speaking, where we overcome things in life. Most are satisfied with being out of Egypt. And they never overcome much. But the priesthood occurring NOW is intercession intended to see us overcome.

Just because his sonship is complete, does not imply he has no human form.

We will see the son sitting upon the throne in the office of Judge.

The office does not erase the substance or form of God.

In Jesus dwells the "Fullness" of the Godhead Bodily.

The completeness of God dwells in the form of Jesus.

His glorified Body did not shed the skin of the human form.

Also we are complete in him....

mfblume

06-22-2007, 09:28 AM

Just because his sonship is complete, does not imply he has no human form.

Exactly! It's just glorified and immortal human form. But still human. What would Adam have been like had he not sinned? Immortally human.

We will see the son sitting upon the throne in the office of Judge.

The office does not erase the substance or form of God.

In Jesus dwells the "Fullness" of the Godhead Bodily.

The completeness of God dwells in the form of Jesus.

His glorified Body did not shed the skin of the human form.

Also we are complete in him....

Amen and amen,

mfblume

06-22-2007, 09:29 AM

We will be the same and still maintain our human form.

Amen.

Phi 3:21 KJV Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Will we cease to be human when our bodies are changed and fashioned like unto his? I think not. We awill not be FALLEN HUMANITY, but humanity as God originally intended it!

Neck

06-22-2007, 09:32 AM

Amen.

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Will we cease to be human when our bodies are changed and fashioned like unto his? I think not. We awill not be FALLEN HUMANITY, but humanity as God originally intended it!

Amen. It makes me tired. When some ministers try to make it more than it is....

I am waiting for one of these guys to start a new religion...

mfblume

06-22-2007, 09:34 AM

Amen. It makes me tired. When some ministers try to make it more than it is....

I am waiting for one of these guys to start a new religion...

Especially when it's all right there in Hebrews!!!! :D Maybe people think it's easier to start a new religion than read the book of Hebrews carefully.

Steve Epley

06-22-2007, 09:38 AM

I don't know about this "human" body stuff. Sown a natural body raised a spiritual body. Yet a body but a glorified body it seems to me in the change it loses it's humaness? Yes a literal body like Christ body that resurrected but I really wonder if it could be termed "human?" Seems celestial to me??? Looks like a human body but I think human might not be the word? I know it seems a play on words but just some thoughts.

mfblume

06-22-2007, 09:44 AM

I don't know about this "human" body stuff. Sown a natural body raised a spiritual body. Yet a body but a glorified body it seems to me in the change it loses it's humanness? Yes a literal body like Christ body that resurrected but I really wonder if it could be termed "human?" Seems celestial to me??? Looks like a human body but I think human might not be the word? I know it seems a play on words but just some thoughts.

It must be a human body because we are human beings who were originally intended to be immortal in such a spiritual body. Spiritual bodies are still physical. They're just adapted to immortal existence.

Human beings are what the Greek terms an "ANTHROPOS". A man is a human being. ANTHROPOS. We get the terms Anthropomorphic from it. And Jesus resurrected with an immortal spiritual body. Would we not say THAT is still human? Jesus STILL HAS THAT BODY NOW! And the bible says There is one mediator between THEOS and ANTHROPOS, the ANTHROPOS Christ Jesus.

He is still as ANTHROPOS as we are now! But it is IMMORTAL ANTHROPOS (humanity).

Steve Epley

06-22-2007, 10:03 AM

It must be a human body because we are human beings who were originally intended to be immortal in such a spiritual body. Spiritual bodies are still physical. They're just adapted to immortal existence.

Human beings are what the Greek terms an "ANTHROPOS". A man is a human being. ANTHROPOS. We get the terms Anthropomorphic from it. And Jesus resurrected with an immortal spiritual body. Would we not say THAT is still human? Jesus STILL HAS THAT BODY NOW! And the bible says There is one mediator between THEOS and ANTHROPOS, the ANTHROPOS Christ Jesus.

He is still as ANTHROPOS as we are now! But it is IMMORTAL ANTHROPOS (humanity).

I do believe He has the body he was resurrected with it is certainly a literal corporal body that is immortal. I just question the term human however the result is the same.

mfblume

06-22-2007, 10:11 AM

I do believe He has the body he was resurrected with it is certainly a literal corporal body that is immortal. I just question the term human however the result is the same.

I agree. It's just that I really think the body with which Jesus resurrected is what was originally intended by God for Adam had he not fallen. And it is still human, only it is immortal human and unfallen human. Just like the resurrected body is still physical and a body, just immortal. And since Jesus is still called ANTHROPOS now in that glory, which means HUMAN, I still use the term human being.

Michael The Disciple

06-22-2007, 10:35 AM

Yes he is man. But not fully man. When was the last time you saw ANY MAN walking around with NO BLOOD in them?

mfblume

06-22-2007, 10:48 AM

Yes he is man. But not fully man. When was the last time you saw ANY MAN walking around with NO BLOOD in them?

He is fully man, still, just not in flesh like us, but in flesh we shall have. Will we not be fully man when we are resurrected and made to possess immortal flesh? I think not.

The truth is that we think MAN is fallen man. But fallen man is never what God intended.

IF He is not fully man now, and we know God is not flesh, then what is that flesh???

Also, where is the scripture that states he is not fully man as well as fully God now?