Salvation's Birth: Rep? Fai? Hol Spi Bap?

[BuckeyeBukaroo]

When does salvation begin?
Using scriptures, defend your view that salvation begins at either repentance, faith, or Holy Spirit baptism.

"Salvation begins" is to be interpreted in the same way that a child is BORN once the child emerges from the womb (logical since we speak so often about being born again).

I feel like chewing on beef jerky...

[Amanah]

Salvation begins when you are born of the Water and the Spirit. (John 3:5)

being born of the water and spirit is obeying the gospel (2 Thess 1:8)

The gospel being the death, burial and resurrection of our Lord (1 Cor 15)

We obey the gospel when repent, are baptized in Jesus name, and are filled with the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:38)

We have to repent or perish (Luke 13:3)

we need to baptize to be saved (1 Peter 3:21)

when we receive the HG to walk in newness of life (Romans 6:4)

People will know you have the holy ghost when you speak with tongues (Acts 10:46)

The HG is the earnest of our inheritance. won't make the second coming without it (Ephesians 1:14)

you are either sealed by God with the Holy Ghost

or you are sealed by Satan and marked for destruction (Revelation 13:16–18)

[Apostolic1ness]

we are saved at the new birth experience.
we are being saved through a faithful walk with God.
we will be saved at the resurrection of the just.

[BuckeyeBukaroo]

Where's The Originalist?

[Apostolic1ness]

Where's The Originalist?

Amanah pretty much summed it up and its as original as about 79 a.d.
you say defend using scripture. defend against what?

[BuckeyeBukaroo]

Amanah pretty much summed it up and its as original as about 79 a.d.
you say defend using scripture. defend against what?

No, there is a poster called the originalist on here and I would like to read his thoughtful discourse concerning this subject. As for "defend" it's just a word used to encourage someone to use scripture to present the Apostolic point of view-- a minority point of view concerning salvation within American Churchianity.

[1ofthechosen]

John 3:5 "“I assure you and most solemnly say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot [ever] enter the kingdom of God."

Which can come in one of 2 ways as Acts 2:38 " Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

Or as Cornelius and His family received it I'm Acts 10:43-48 "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. [44] While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. [45] And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. [46] For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, [47] Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? [48] And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days." So Repentance, Receiving the Holy Ghost, and then being baptized in Jesus name. The Holy Ghost can be given before or after Jesus name baptism, but the Holy Ghost will not come apart from true repentance. When it theres true Repentance the evidence will be exactly what took place in Acts 10:45-46.

But 1 John 5:8 holds the key "And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." You can be baptized in Jesus name and not born of the Spirit, and no blood. You can be born or Spirit no Jesus name Baptism and no blood. But at the second you are Baptized in Jesus name, and receive the Holy Ghost, you are then washed in the precious blood of Jesus. For they all agree in one! If either are missing you are still lost!

[BuckeyeBukaroo]

Do the Apostolics not have any Friends on this Forum who disagree theologically concerning salvation?

[Amanah]

Do the Apostolics not have any Friends on this Forum who disagree theologically concerning salvation?

yeah, they will show up, patience.

[1ofthechosen]

Do the Apostolics not have any Friends on this Forum who disagree theologically concerning salvation?

I will say we do all have differing views, but on this one there's a pretty good consensus. Which is good we do at least agree here. There is only like 2 people who disagree on this one of them only half the time. But you will have to get someone else to start going that direction before they will say anything about it.

[houston]

I will say we do all have differing views, but on this one there's a pretty good consensus. Which is good we do at least agree here. There is only like 2 people who disagree on this one of them only half the time. But you will have to get someone else to start going that direction before they will say anything about it.

Huh?

[1ofthechosen]

Huh?

I forgot the guys name that says baptism can be done anyway and it's ok. But Originalist will ride with him if he starts saying it first. But otherwise he's not going to say it first. Other than that everybody pretty much agrees on at least salvational issues.

[1ofthechosen]

I went back and looked the guys name is Tyrone Palmer .

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=52137

Matter of fact I read the first couple pages, and then Went to to like the 9th through the 10th page I LOL'ed for real. Man EB you made my night!

[houston]

I went back and looked the guys name is Tyrone Palmer .

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=52137

Originalist is AoG. Lol. What do you expect?

I’ve been baptized 3 times so...

[1ofthechosen]

Originalist is AoG. Lol. What do you expect?

I’ve been baptized 3 times so...

I've been baptized in the titles twice and the name of Jesus twice. Lol. Baptism don't even matter if you didnt truly repent! No matter how it was done..

But today I can say I'm born of water and Spirit and washed in the blood. False doctrine is a strong hold. I try to stay far away from fly by night philosophies that have no power to transform.

This evangelist Matt Watson said something powerful in this revival that stuck. He said, "the gospel isn't the gospel if it doesn't have the power to transform. And any preacher who.doesnt preach on sin, doesn't preach on it because they've never been delivered of sin in their own life yet." That may of been off topic but I wanted to share it regardless.

[Tithesmeister]

When does salvation begin?
Using scriptures, defend your view that salvation begins at either repentance, faith, or Holy Spirit baptism.

"Salvation begins" is to be interpreted in the same way that a child is BORN once the child emerges from the womb (logical since we speak so often about being born again).

I feel like chewing on beef jerky...

Salvation begins with belief in the Lord Jesus Christ . . .


John.3 Verses 15 to 18

[15] That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

It begins with believing and confessing . . .



[8] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Here's where the question was asked specifically by the "keeper of the prison" of Paul and Silas . . .

Acts.16
[30] And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
[31] And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house

Let the record show, that salvation begins with believing.

[Amanah]

believe and be baptized

He that believes and is baptized shall be saved (Mark 16:16)

signs follow believers

These signs shall follow them that believe In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; (Mark 16:17-18)

receive the Holy Ghost and speak with tongues

And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. (Acts 19:1-6)

[1ofthechosen]

Salvation begins with belief in the Lord Jesus Christ . . .


John.3 Verses 15 to 18

[15] That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

It begins with believing and confessing . . .



[8] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Here's where the question was asked specifically by the "keeper of the prison" of Paul and Silas . . .

Acts.16
[30] And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
[31] And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house

Let the record show, that salvation begins with believing.

He specifically said "Salvation begins" is to be interpreted in the same way that a child is BORN once the child emerges from the womb (logical since we speak so often about being born again)."

The first step of faith maybe believing and confessing. But you are not born again, bro

[1ofthechosen]

Salvation begins with belief in the Lord Jesus Christ . . .


John.3 Verses 15 to 18

[15] That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

It begins with believing and confessing . . .



[8] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Here's where the question was asked specifically by the "keeper of the prison" of Paul and Silas . . .

Acts.16
[30] And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
[31] And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house

Let the record show, that salvation begins with believing.

He specifically said "Salvation begins" is to be interpreted in the same way that a child is BORN once the child emerges from the womb (logical since we speak so often about being born again)."

The first step of faith maybe believing and confessing. But you are not born again, at that point. Or as he said "the same way that a child is BORN once the child emerges from the womb." There's no emergence from the womb at that point..

[Tithesmeister]

He specifically said "Salvation begins" is to be interpreted in the same way that a child is BORN once the child emerges from the womb (logical since we speak so often about being born again)."

The first step of faith maybe believing and confessing. But you are not born again, bro

I understand that he said that. I disagree. I believe salvation begins with believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. You shall be saved, (saved as in salvation) because you believed. You do believe this . . . right?

If we believe, we shall be saved. It is a promise from God. We do believe that God keeps His promises, don't we? If we are born again (having received the Holy Ghost) we are saved. Saved is past tense. Shall be saved is future tense, so it fits better with the beginning of salvation part.

[Esaias]

I understand that he said that. I disagree. I believe salvation begins with believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. You shall be saved, (saved as in salvation) because you believed. You do believe this . . . right?

If we believe, we shall be saved. It is a promise from God. We do believe that God keeps His promises, don't we? If we are born again (having received the Holy Ghost) we are saved. Saved is past tense. Shall be saved is future tense, so it fits better with the beginning of salvation part.

Actually, salvation began before the foundation of the world, since salvation is only in Christ, and He is the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world".

[1ofthechosen]

I understand that he said that. I disagree. I believe salvation begins with believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. You shall be saved, (saved as in salvation) because you believed. You do believe this . . . right?

If we believe, we shall be saved. It is a promise from God. We do believe that God keeps His promises, don't we? If we are born again (having received the Holy Ghost) we are saved. Saved is past tense. Shall be saved is future tense, so it fits better with the beginning of salvation part.

No water no Spirit no salvation, buddy. Both not one without the other.

[1ofthechosen]

I understand that he said that. I disagree. I believe salvation begins with believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. You shall be saved, (saved as in salvation) because you believed. You do believe this . . . right?


Not as casually and loosely as your saying that no way. That's like saying everybody out Protestants churches are saved. I would be willing to believe almost everyone who visits a church believes in Jesus but true belief is more than acknowledging something. "It's committing, and trusting in".

And though I can say I believe I believe in working out will make you healthy, it does nothing for me to not commit myself to it, and trust in it and actually work out!

So salvation can begin there but there is no new birth there. While it could be revolutionary, it isn't even a whole step. I will say it has to begin there, but repentance has to accompany it. Or otherwise it's meaningless just like me believing in working out, and still not doing it.

[Tithesmeister]

Not as casually and loosely as your saying that no way. That's like saying everybody out Protestants churches are saved. I would be willing to believe almost everyone who visits a church believes in Jesus but true belief is more than acknowledging something. "It's committing, and trusting in".

And though I can say I believe I believe in working out will make you healthy, it does nothing for me to not commit myself to it, and trust in it and actually work out!

So salvation can begin there but there is no new birth there. While it could be revolutionary, it isn't even a whole step. I will say it has to begin there, but repentance has to accompany it. Or otherwise it's meaningless just like me believing in working out, and still not doing it.

That was the original question wasn't it? When does salvation begin? I never said that was the whole package. Individual salvation begins in your life when you believe.

[1ofthechosen]

That was the original question wasn't it? When does salvation begin? I never said that was the whole package. Individual salvation begins in your life when you believe.

No the question was ""Salvation begins" is to be interpreted in the same way that a child is BORN once the child emerges from the womb (logical since we speak so often about being born again)."

[Tithesmeister]

When does salvation begin?
Using scriptures, defend your view that salvation begins at either repentance, faith, or Holy Spirit baptism.

"Salvation begins" is to be interpreted in the same way that a child is BORN once the child emerges from the womb (logical since we speak so often about being born again).

I feel like chewing on beef jerky...

Read it again Sam. The question was "When does salvation begin?"

Then he chose to tell me how to interpret it. I disagreed with the interpretation.

I suppose that of the options offered I would say that salvation begins with repentance, however I believe that in order to repent, you must first believe.

[1ofthechosen]

Read it again Sam. The question was "When does salvation begin?"

Then he chose to tell me how to interpret it. I disagreed with the interpretation.

I suppose that of the options offered I would say that salvation begins with repentance, however I believe that in order to repent, you must first believe.

So I see what your saying. Ok. It is as he's saying two different things, one thing on the top line, and then the interpretation is something totally different.

[BuckeyeBukaroo]

Do not read your own paradigms into the question.
When is a child born?
When does salvation begin is (in this question) synonymous with a soul being born again.

[BuckeyeBukaroo]

Originalist is AoG. Lol. What do you expect?

I’ve been baptized 3 times so...

You are absolutely wrong, according to his own words. He has said that he is as Oneness as Oneness gets. If he would plainly state he is A/G, then all would be well.

But The Originalist has said he is Oneness...

[Amanah]

You are absolutely wrong, according to his own words. He has said that he is as Oneness as Oneness gets. If he would plainly state he is A/G, then all would be well.

But The Originalist has said he is Oneness...

yes he is Oneness, he was an AOG minister, and has also held license as an Apostolic minister.

[Esaias]

Do not read your own paradigms into the question.
When is a child born?
When does salvation begin is (in this question) synonymous with a soul being born again.

A person is born again when they are born of water and of the Spirit.

[BuckeyeBukaroo]

A person is born again when they are born of water and of the Spirit.

Will you please go to the first post of this thread for your instructions?

[BuckeyeBukaroo]

yes he is Oneness, he was an AOG minister, and has also held license as an Apostolic minister.

None of this matters. Someone tell him to search his own heart because his posts do not come from the heart of a Oneness Pentecostal. I have read his posts. You all need to be careful.

[1ofthechosen]

None of this matters. Someone tell him to search his own heart because his posts do not come from the heart of a Oneness Pentecostal. I have read his posts. You all need to be careful.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=52137

Just if you have time go read the first 2 pages of this, and and then read page 8-10. Oh there's more, but this should say enough on the subject.

I've never heard he was a Oneness minister, I would have to ask with what organization on that one.

[houston]

none of this matters. Someone tell him to search his own heart because his posts do not come from the heart of a oneness pentecostal. I have read his posts. You all need to be careful.

roflol!

[houston]

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=52137

Just if you have time go read the first 2 pages of this, and and then read page 8-10. Oh there's more, but this should say enough on the subject.

I've never heard he was a Oneness minister, I would have to ask with what organization on that one.

I think UPC. Don’t quote me. IMO, his beliefs were shaped by the AG.

[1ofthechosen]

I think UPC. Don’t quote me. IMO, his beliefs were shaped by the AG.

Well if so the rest of his contemporaries left after the affirmation statement in 92. Not about the holiness part, but the New birth part. But he says in that thread he attendst a Baptist Church because of gas or something or another.

In another thread he made the statement "that's why he would never go back to a UPC church." I do remember that, it was about Holiness or tithes don't remember which.

[houston]

“we” didn’t all leave in ‘92. Lol

[Esaias]

Will you please go to the first post of this thread for your instructions?

No.

[houston]

No.
You were given instructions?

[BuckeyeBukaroo]

Will you please go to the first post of this thread for your instructions?

No.

You were given instructions?

When does salvation begin?
Using scriptures, defend your view that salvation begins at either repentance, faith, or Holy Spirit baptism.

"Salvation begins" is to be interpreted in the same way that a child is BORN once the child emerges from the womb (logical since we speak so often about being born again).

I feel like chewing on beef jerky...


I don't understand why it would be difficult to answer the question in accordance with the parameters established. Helps for continuity as well as helps with providing scriptural support-- but if you don't want to play along, that's your choice.

[navygoat1998]

No.

:heeheehee

[BuckeyeBukaroo]

Originalist is AoG. Lol. What do you expect?

I’ve been baptized 3 times so...

To be clear, I was calling you out as not being Oneness.

I think my attitude towards The Originalist flies contrary to what this Forum is about. I just he would not present himself as Oneness when he isn't. Nevertheless, I hope good things for him. It's not like I believe all A/G's are going to hell-- it's more like I just don't know how God is going to work that out and I'd rather let Him figure it out while I focus on me and my house.

[BuckeyeBukaroo]

:heeheehee

What do you think?
When does salvation begin?
Using scriptures, defend your view that salvation begins at either repentance, faith, or Holy Spirit baptism.

"Salvation begins" is to be interpreted in the same way that a child is BORN once the child emerges from the womb (logical since we speak so often about being born again).

[Esaias]

I don't understand why it would be difficult to answer the question in accordance with the parameters established. Helps for continuity as well as helps with providing scriptural support-- but if you don't want to play along, that's your choice.

You defined "salvation begins" as being "born again". Per John 3:5 being born again means being born of water and Spirit. So a person is "born again" when they have been born of water and the Spirit.

I don't understand why it would be so difficult to understand my answer, it was in fact within the parameters of your opening post (using "born again" as the meaning of "when salvation begins").

[houston]

To be clear, I was calling you out as not being Oneness.

Yes, we all got that. My post that you quoted was in response to someone else.

[BuckeyeBukaroo]

Yes, we all got that. My post that you quoted was in response to someone else.

I meant to say WAS NOT calling you out...

I am not doing well with the whole thought to fingers to keyboard method tonight.

[votivesoul]

Theoretically, a person could for some reason believe that salvation doesn't begin at either repentance, faith, or Holy Spirit baptism. They could likewise defend that view using Scripture.

Therefore, the question is (perhaps???) unintentionally limited to unnecessary parameters, which will force forced answers to preconditioned and pre-drawn conclusions.

So, instead of barking out orders for people to obey your instructions, how about you reword your question so that people can answer it the way they feel is correct, without you berating them for it?

[votivesoul]

Theoretically, a person could for some reason believe that salvation doesn't begin at either repentance, faith, or Holy Spirit baptism. They could likewise defend that view using Scripture.

Therefore, the question is (perhaps???) unintentionally limited to unnecessary parameters, which will force forced answers to preconditioned and pre-drawn conclusions.

So, instead of barking out orders for people to obey your instructions, how about you reword your question so that people can answer it the way they feel is correct, without you berating them for it?

For example, when I read the question, and thought about it for a second, my first response was "At the cross." That's when salvation begins. Before I was ever born, my salvation was secured with "It is finished". Yeah, God saved me in 2003, but my salvation didn't begin then, and it had nothing to do with my repentance, faith, or Holy Spirit baptism. It had to do with "Not my will, but Thine be done". That's where my salvation began.

But your question doesn't allow for such an answer, even though it's accurate, true, and as much Scriptural as Acts 2:38.

This is what Esaias was first trying to point toward, and he is to be commended. When I read his reply, I was like "Finally! Only took three pages...".

But you chided him for it. Absolutely right on with everything he posted, but still you found fault in his answer. That's not right, dude.

[1ofthechosen]

“we” didn’t all leave in ‘92. Lol

So you believe in saying the sinners prayer, baptism if you feel like it. Holy Spirit at conversion evidenced by sloppy Agape?
Lol

What's your salvational beliefs? Tell me more.

[navygoat1998]

What do you think?
When does salvation begin?
Using scriptures, defend your view that salvation begins at either repentance, faith, or Holy Spirit baptism.

"Salvation begins" is to be interpreted in the same way that a child is BORN once the child emerges from the womb (logical since we speak so often about being born again).

:heeheehee:heeheehee

[houston]

So you believe in saying the sinners prayer, baptism if you feel like it. Holy Spirit at conversion evidenced by sloppy Agape?
Lol

What's your salvational beliefs? Tell me more.

PCI believe in saying the sinners prayer? Baptism if you feel like it?

Where do you get your info?

[1ofthechosen]

[QUOTE=houston;1531078]PCI believe in saying the sinners prayer? Baptism if you feel like it?

It was just a joke. You believe "one was born again at the point of faith/repentance. While they believed in baptism in Jesus’ name and receiving the Spirit evidenced by speaking in tongues, they understood such to be the result of salvation, not the cause of salvation."

Is that what your saying?

[houston]

PCI believe in saying the sinners prayer? Baptism if you feel like it?

It was just a joke. You believe "one was born again at the point of faith/repentance. While they believed in baptism in Jesus’ name and receiving the Spirit evidenced by speaking in tongues, they understood such to be the result of salvation, not the cause of salvation."

Is that what your saying?

*Bill Clinton voice*
It depends on what the meaning of EIS is.

[Apostolic1ness]

[QUOTE=houston;1531078]PCI believe in saying the sinners prayer? Baptism if you feel like it?

It was just a joke. You believe "one was born again at the point of faith/repentance. While they believed in baptism in Jesus’ name and receiving the Spirit evidenced by speaking in tongues, they understood such to be the result of salvation, not the cause of salvation."

Is that what your saying?

how about instead of result of salvation,
salvation is the result

[1ofthechosen]

[QUOTE=1ofthechosen;1531086]

how about instead of result of salvation,
salvation is the result

Well that's what everyone one else is saying. But you said we all didn't leave in 92, and that was what those that left believed. Regarding salvation. (Well some of them anyway)

[houston]

Wrong

[1ofthechosen]

Wrong

Lol

[Apostolic1ness]

[QUOTE=Apostolic1ness;1531094]

Well that's what everyone one else is saying. But you said we all didn't leave in 92, and that was what those that left believed. Regarding salvation. (Well some of them anyway)
I never said anything about 92 must have been someone else

[1ofthechosen]

I never said anything about 92 must have been someone else

Not you I was talking to Houston.

[houston]

Would you guys fix the quote. Gah...

[1ofthechosen]

Would you guys fix the quote. Gah...

There you go, it was making absolutely no sense.