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Evang.Benincasa
09-22-2018, 05:09 PM
I was standing in the hall way entrance of a beach condominium I was doing construction on. When an individual heard me tell the desk manager "Praise the Lord in Jesus name." The individual commented to me that the there is no Jesus. I understand that within Palm, Broward, and Dade counties we are jam packed and full with all sorts of different cults, religions, and sects who believe all sorts of mythologies. So, I asked him, what did he mean, no Jesus?

He then went into his rant on how that Jesus isn't the name, but Yahshua is the name. How Yahweh is the name of the father, and Yahshua is the name of the son. I then asked him who told you this? I also asked him if he knew or spoke any Hebrew or Aramaic? He said no. I then asked then how do you even know if you are pronouncing it correctly? I asked him if the New Testament is written in Hebrew, or Aramaic? He agreed with me that it was written in Greek. I then asked if it is written in Greek, then where do you get that Jesus required or even cared that we call Him using a Hebrew, or Aramaic name? He then gave me the old line "what did Mary call Him?" I said Iesous. He then began to explain how Iesous, means Hail Zeus. I asked him to say Zeus in Greek. He replied Zeus, I told him that is incorrect. You are not saying Ζεύς which is phonetically pronounced zeffs. People tend to just take these word jumbles at face value, and never go any further because they want to believe in their Hebraisms for Jesus. I then told the individual that for over 2,000 years everyone has called Him Jesus in Christendom and Judaism? How does he account for the LXX calling the book of Joshua Ἰησοῦς? Why did Diaspora Judeans record Moses' second in command as Ἰησοῦς (which supposedly to him is "hail Zeus?") The individual went silent, he then took my number, and gave me his. I will meet with his group and see how receptive they are for what I have to say on the subject.

jediwill83
09-22-2018, 06:27 PM
I was standing in the hall way entrance of a beach condominium I was doing construction on. When an individual heard me tell the desk manager "Praise the Lord in Jesus name." The individual commented to me that the there is no Jesus. I understand that within Palm, Broward, and Dade counties we are jam packed and full with all sorts of different cults, religions, and sects who believe all sorts of mythologies. So, I asked him, what did he mean, no Jesus?

He then went into his rant on how that Jesus isn't the name, but Yahshua is the name. How Yahweh is the name of the father, and Yahshua is the name of the son. I then asked him who told you this? I also asked him if he knew or spoke any Hebrew or Aramaic? He said no. I then asked then how do you even know if you are pronouncing it correctly? I asked him if the New Testament is written in Hebrew, or Aramaic? He agreed with me that it was written in Greek. I then asked if it is written in Greek, then where do you get that Jesus required or even cared that we call Him using a Hebrew, or Aramaic name? He then gave me the old line "what did Mary call Him?" I said Iesous. He then began to explain how Iesous, means Hail Zeus. I asked him to say Zeus in Greek. He replied Zeus, I told him that is incorrect. You are not saying Ζεύς which is phonetically pronounced zeffs. People tend to just take these word jumbles at face value, and never go any further because they want to believe in their Hebraisms for Jesus. I then told the individual that for over 2,000 years everyone has called Him Jesus in Christendom and Judaism? How does he account for the LXX calling the book of Joshua Ἰησοῦς? Why did Diaspora Judeans record Moses' second in command as Ἰησοῦς (which supposedly to him is "hail Zeus?") The individual went silent, he then took my number, and gave me his. I will meet with his group and see how receptive they are for what I have to say on the subject.




Smart cookie!


I'd love to be a fly on the wall during that discussion.

Evang.Benincasa
09-22-2018, 07:26 PM
Smart cookie!


I'd love to be a fly on the wall during that discussion.

That would of been nice. :highfive

CalledOut238
09-23-2018, 03:20 PM
Most scholars realize that classical biblical Hebrew is a dead language. The original was written in Paleo Hebrew script with consonants not being integrated until around 6 BC. Hebrew in ancient times was written and read up through the latter part of the first millennium AD without vowel pointing. When exiled in to Babylon the Masoretes started to integrate the Aramaic script or square script. Masoretes introduced the niqqud vowel pointing; trying to preserve their pronunciation and interpretive tradition, but vowel points are not original. Nobody knows how Paleo Hebrew was pronounced and vowel pointing has been proven suspect. Modern Hebrew has basteridzed even the Masoretic vowel pointing. By incorporating Slavic, Aramaic, Sephardic and Yiddish this revived language is not even close to the original Hebrew.

“Since Ben-Yehuda and other early revivalists spoke only broken Hebrew, their grammar, while reflecting (Late) Biblical Hebrew, also exhibited significant aspects of Yiddish, Russian, Lithuanian and sometimes even German and French. And in most cases the revivalists were probably not even aware of this grammar mixing, much the same way that people who speak a foreign language often unknowingly make mistakes based on the grammar of their native language.”

These modern Hebrew variations of Jesus come from Jeshua the High Priest in the Old Testament. The mongrelizing Masoretic niqqud vowel points are being used for the modern Hebrew names for Jesus. Yeshua (ישוע‬), Yeshu (ישו‬) Yehoshua (יְהוֹשֻׁעַ). But the names keep coming with Yahusha, Yahushua, Yahuwshuwa and I am sure there will be more. These names are a modern creation using Masoretic scripts and niqqud vowel points to cause division in the church. The name Yeshua; and Modern Hebrew, is extensively used by followers of Messianic Judaism. Coincidence? Zephaniah prophesied of a pure language. So those who clamor about the Greek language being pagan cannot call modern Hebrew a pure language.

Zephaniah 3:9 (KJV) For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.

I would ask these wayward Hebrew linguists why Greek Iesous; and English Jesus, the most recognized through all nations for our Savior? Why have people been healed in the name of Jesus? Because from a historical perspective the name Yeshua does not match the prophecy of Matthew.

Matthew 12:21 (KJV) And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.

Selah

Sister Alvear
09-23-2018, 05:44 PM
Called Out...I don't always agree with you...but you hit the nail on the head with this post!

CalledOut238
09-24-2018, 09:37 AM
Called Out...I don't always agree with you...but you hit the nail on the head with this post!

This subject is personal to me. I had a Hebrew Roots person convince me that Jesus was a substitute name for the Messiah. I will forever regret my questioning the wonderful blessing that I received being baptized in Jesus name. I continue to pray about his name to this day. And the answer that I receive; “He knows all languages, and mine is English.”

This is an insidious trap for those who are zealous for studying original texts. I pray that no one ever feels the pain I felt when someone told me my baptism in Jesus name was invalid. I would debate any Hebrew Roots; or Sacred Name fraud, to keep others from feeling this pain. Was there any good that came of my experience? I studied to shew myself approved in defense of his English Name. But realize that an Aramaic speaker can use Eashoa just as a Greek speaker can use Iesous. We should not be made ashamed of our heritage, culture and language by legalist who cause division. I do love how Matthew translates with a Greek Scripture Analyzer to affirm that we rely on the name of Jesus.

Interlinear Scripture Analyzer (CLV) Matthew 12:21

And on His name the nations will be relying.

Selah

Steve Epley
09-24-2018, 12:09 PM
I was standing in the hall way entrance of a beach condominium I was doing construction on. When an individual heard me tell the desk manager "Praise the Lord in Jesus name." The individual commented to me that the there is no Jesus. I understand that within Palm, Broward, and Dade counties we are jam packed and full with all sorts of different cults, religions, and sects who believe all sorts of mythologies. So, I asked him, what did he mean, no Jesus?

He then went into his rant on how that Jesus isn't the name, but Yahshua is the name. How Yahweh is the name of the father, and Yahshua is the name of the son. I then asked him who told you this? I also asked him if he knew or spoke any Hebrew or Aramaic? He said no. I then asked then how do you even know if you are pronouncing it correctly? I asked him if the New Testament is written in Hebrew, or Aramaic? He agreed with me that it was written in Greek. I then asked if it is written in Greek, then where do you get that Jesus required or even cared that we call Him using a Hebrew, or Aramaic name? He then gave me the old line "what did Mary call Him?" I said Iesous. He then began to explain how Iesous, means Hail Zeus. I asked him to say Zeus in Greek. He replied Zeus, I told him that is incorrect. You are not saying Ζεύς which is phonetically pronounced zeffs. People tend to just take these word jumbles at face value, and never go any further because they want to believe in their Hebraisms for Jesus. I then told the individual that for over 2,000 years everyone has called Him Jesus in Christendom and Judaism? How does he account for the LXX calling the book of Joshua Ἰησοῦς? Why did Diaspora Judeans record Moses' second in command as Ἰησοῦς (which supposedly to him is "hail Zeus?") The individual went silent, he then took my number, and gave me his. I will meet with his group and see how receptive they are for what I have to say on the subject.
I have failed to meet one person who believes this sacred name doctrine all variations that can speak or read Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek. Good job.

Steve Epley
09-24-2018, 12:11 PM
Most scholars realize that classical biblical Hebrew is a dead language. The original was written in Paleo Hebrew script with consonants not being integrated until around 6 BC. Hebrew in ancient times was written and read up through the latter part of the first millennium AD without vowel pointing. When exiled in to Babylon the Masoretes started to integrate the Aramaic script or square script. Masoretes introduced the niqqud vowel pointing; trying to preserve their pronunciation and interpretive tradition, but vowel points are not original. Nobody knows how Paleo Hebrew was pronounced and vowel pointing has been proven suspect. Modern Hebrew has basteridzed even the Masoretic vowel pointing. By incorporating Slavic, Aramaic, Sephardic and Yiddish this revived language is not even close to the original Hebrew.

“Since Ben-Yehuda and other early revivalists spoke only broken Hebrew, their grammar, while reflecting (Late) Biblical Hebrew, also exhibited significant aspects of Yiddish, Russian, Lithuanian and sometimes even German and French. And in most cases the revivalists were probably not even aware of this grammar mixing, much the same way that people who speak a foreign language often unknowingly make mistakes based on the grammar of their native language.”

These modern Hebrew variations of Jesus come from Jeshua the High Priest in the Old Testament. The mongrelizing Masoretic niqqud vowel points are being used for the modern Hebrew names for Jesus. Yeshua (ישוע‬), Yeshu (ישו‬) Yehoshua (יְהוֹשֻׁעַ). But the names keep coming with Yahusha, Yahushua, Yahuwshuwa and I am sure there will be more. These names are a modern creation using Masoretic scripts and niqqud vowel points to cause division in the church. The name Yeshua; and Modern Hebrew, is extensively used by followers of Messianic Judaism. Coincidence? Zephaniah prophesied of a pure language. So those who clamor about the Greek language being pagan cannot call modern Hebrew a pure language.

Zephaniah 3:9 (KJV) For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.

I would ask these wayward Hebrew linguists why Greek Iesous; and English Jesus, the most recognized through all nations for our Savior? Why have people been healed in the name of Jesus? Because from a historical perspective the name Yeshua does not match the prophecy of Matthew.

Matthew 12:21 (KJV) And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.

Selah

Excellent.

consapente89
09-24-2018, 01:22 PM
Somebody needs to let all those demons that have been cast out by Apostolic preachers know they didn't actually have to come out because someone was using the wrong name!

houston
09-24-2018, 02:26 PM
Somebody needs to let all those demons that have been cast out by Apostolic preachers know they didn't actually have to come out because someone was using the wrong name!


What about the demons cast out by trinitarian preachers?

Michael The Disciple
09-24-2018, 03:37 PM
What about the demons cast out by trinitarian preachers?


I have cast them out in the name of Yeshua.:highfive

Evang.Benincasa
09-24-2018, 04:40 PM
I have cast them out in the name of Yeshua.:highfive

Thank you Jesus that we don't measure truth by lying signs and wonders. :)

Evang.Benincasa
09-24-2018, 04:41 PM
What about the demons cast out by trinitarian preachers?


All Trinitarians I ever heard of casting out devils did it in Jesus name.

Michael The Disciple
09-24-2018, 04:53 PM
Thank you Jesus that we don't measure truth by lying signs and wonders. :)

So if a Jewish Oneness believer cast out demons in the name of Yeshua would you consider that a lying sign and wonder?

houston
09-24-2018, 05:04 PM
Thank you Jesus that we don't measure truth by lying signs and wonders. :)

Come on, that was brutal.

Evang.Benincasa
09-24-2018, 05:18 PM
So if a Jewish Oneness believer cast out demons in the name of Yeshua would you consider that a lying sign and wonder?

Are you a Jewish or Israeli Oneness believer? Would you call Jesus by this נקניקיה

Mike your first language is English, end of story. You use the name Yeshua for totally different reasons. If He was called Yeshua, they sure missed it in the New Testament and the LXX. Not one book of the New Testament was originally written in Hebrew or Aramaic. 2,000 years they called Him Jesus, and the whole Hebrew roots movement is Judaizing not a use of a birth language. Your use of Yah, Yahweh, Yeshua, Yahshua, are ridiculous, when you can't speak Hebrew or Aramaic. I was with some individuals who were casting out devils and they used the name of Yeshua. The demon possessed teenager started to mock them in Yiddish. Then in Hebrew, making inappropriate hand gestures. Then in Arabic.

An older brother I was with walked over to the teenanger and said the Lord rebuke you in Jesus name. The teenager feel to her knees, crying, then repenting. Finally speaking in tongues. The old Spanish brother said to me later that night. They use a name because of a look, a fashion, for a style. It isn't even like saying Jesus in Spanish when you don't know Spanish. These people want to worship ethnicity of the Christ. Their focus is sounding like something when that something isn't even important. For believing themselves to be wise they became fools.

Evang.Benincasa
09-24-2018, 05:21 PM
Come on, that was brutal.

Obviously not to him.

Evang.Benincasa
09-24-2018, 05:31 PM
Most scholars realize that classical biblical Hebrew is a dead language. The original was written in Paleo Hebrew script with consonants not being integrated until around 6 BC. Hebrew in ancient times was written and read up through the latter part of the first millennium AD without vowel pointing. When exiled in to Babylon the Masoretes started to integrate the Aramaic script or square script. Masoretes introduced the niqqud vowel pointing; trying to preserve their pronunciation and interpretive tradition, but vowel points are not original. Nobody knows how Paleo Hebrew was pronounced and vowel pointing has been proven suspect. Modern Hebrew has basteridzed even the Masoretic vowel pointing. By incorporating Slavic, Aramaic, Sephardic and Yiddish this revived language is not even close to the original Hebrew.

“Since Ben-Yehuda and other early revivalists spoke only broken Hebrew, their grammar, while reflecting (Late) Biblical Hebrew, also exhibited significant aspects of Yiddish, Russian, Lithuanian and sometimes even German and French. And in most cases the revivalists were probably not even aware of this grammar mixing, much the same way that people who speak a foreign language often unknowingly make mistakes based on the grammar of their native language.”

These modern Hebrew variations of Jesus come from Jeshua the High Priest in the Old Testament. The mongrelizing Masoretic niqqud vowel points are being used for the modern Hebrew names for Jesus. Yeshua (ישוע‬), Yeshu (ישו‬) Yehoshua (יְהוֹשֻׁעַ). But the names keep coming with Yahusha, Yahushua, Yahuwshuwa and I am sure there will be more. These names are a modern creation using Masoretic scripts and niqqud vowel points to cause division in the church. The name Yeshua; and Modern Hebrew, is extensively used by followers of Messianic Judaism. Coincidence? Zephaniah prophesied of a pure language. So those who clamor about the Greek language being pagan cannot call modern Hebrew a pure language.

Zephaniah 3:9 (KJV) For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.

I would ask these wayward Hebrew linguists why Greek Iesous; and English Jesus, the most recognized through all nations for our Savior? Why have people been healed in the name of Jesus? Because from a historical perspective the name Yeshua does not match the prophecy of Matthew.

Matthew 12:21 (KJV) And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.

Selah

Any answers for the bolded?

houston
09-24-2018, 06:07 PM
I was with some individuals who were casting out devils and they used the name of Yeshua. The demon possessed teenager started to mock them in Yiddish. Then in Hebrew, making inappropriate hand gestures. Then in Arabic.

An older brother I was with walked over to the teenanger and said the Lord rebuke you in Jesus name. The teenager feel to her knees, crying, then repenting. Finally speaking in tongues. The old Spanish brother said to me later that night. They use a name because of a look, a fashion, for a style. It isn't even like saying Jesus in Spanish when you don't know Spanish. These people want to worship ethnicity of the Christ. Their focus is sounding like something when that something isn't even important. For believing themselves to be wise they became fools.

Wow!

houston
09-24-2018, 06:09 PM
MTD,

You haven’t cast out devils since the 70’s, correct?
So, you were a “Yeshua” guy back then?

Michael The Disciple
09-24-2018, 07:21 PM
Are you a Jewish or Israeli Oneness believer? Would you call Jesus by this נקניקיה

Mike your first language is English, end of story. You use the name Yeshua for totally different reasons. If He was called Yeshua, they sure missed it in the New Testament and the LXX. Not one book of the New Testament was originally written in Hebrew or Aramaic. 2,000 years they called Him Jesus, and the whole Hebrew roots movement is Judaizing not a use of a birth language. Your use of Yah, Yahweh, Yeshua, Yahshua, are ridiculous, when you can't speak Hebrew or Aramaic. I was with some individuals who were casting out devils and they used the name of Yeshua. The demon possessed teenager started to mock them in Yiddish. Then in Hebrew, making inappropriate hand gestures. Then in Arabic.

An older brother I was with walked over to the teenanger and said the Lord rebuke you in Jesus name. The teenager feel to her knees, crying, then repenting. Finally speaking in tongues. The old Spanish brother said to me later that night. They use a name because of a look, a fashion, for a style. It isn't even like saying Jesus in Spanish when you don't know Spanish. These people want to worship ethnicity of the Christ. Their focus is sounding like something when that something isn't even important. For believing themselves to be wise they became fools.

Dom,

If I gave you the details of the demon I cast out in the name of Yeshua you would blaspheme him. If you have not already.

Are you saying demons cannot be cast out in the name of Yeshua?

houston
09-24-2018, 07:50 PM
Dom,

If I gave you the details of the demon I cast out in the name of Yeshua you would blaspheme him. If you have not already.

Are you saying demons cannot be cast out in the name of Yeshua?

The devil is in the detail.

Evang.Benincasa
09-24-2018, 08:38 PM
Dom,

If I gave you the details of the demon I cast out in the name of Yeshua you would blaspheme him. If you have not already.

Are you saying demons cannot be cast out in the name of Yeshua?

Mike, you don't know Hebrew, or Aramaic. Hebrew and Aramaic aren't your birth language. You dishonor Jesus Christ by placing special emphasis on a language (which frankly you don't speak) and therefore miss the forest for the trees. You casting out devils in the name of Yeshua? The greater question is why? Seriously? Why? You were saying the name Jesus far longer than you EVER said Yeshua. Do yourself a favor, look at yourself before you dare to call anyone a blasphemer. The whole Hebrew Roots movement is Satanic and points all to hell.

Michael The Disciple
09-24-2018, 09:39 PM
Mike, you don't know Hebrew, or Aramaic. Hebrew and Aramaic aren't your birth language. You dishonor Jesus Christ by placing special emphasis on a language (which frankly you don't speak) and therefore miss the forest for the trees. You casting out devils in the name of Yeshua? The greater question is why? Seriously? Why? You were saying the name Jesus far longer than you EVER said Yeshua. Do yourself a favor, look at yourself before you dare to call anyone a blasphemer. The whole Hebrew Roots movement is Satanic and points all to hell.

Just pitiful. You dont understand demons being cast out in the name of Yeshua. I have cast out demons in the name of Yeshua and in the name of Jesus.

I guess you would rather have the demon stay in the person than to cast it out in the name Yeshua.

TakingDominion
09-24-2018, 09:48 PM
Dom,

If I gave you the details of the demon I cast out in the name of Yeshua you would blaspheme him. If you have not already.

Are you saying demons cannot be cast out in the name of Yeshua?

I'm curious, how would you divolging details regarding this demon possession cause the good evangelist to blaspheme?

houston
09-24-2018, 09:51 PM
I'm curious, how would you divolging details regarding this demon possession cause the good evangelist to blaspheme?

The devil is in the detail.

Evang.Benincasa
09-24-2018, 09:52 PM
Just pitiful. You dont understand demons being cast out in the name of Yeshua. I have cast out demons in the name of Yeshua and in the name of Jesus.

I guess you would rather have the demon stay in the person than to cast it out in the name Yeshua.

What, do you go back and forth from English to Hebrew in casting these demons out? Does the demons tell you that they only understand a certain language? Mike, give me a break, you weren't raised speaking Hebrew. You casted out demons in Hebrew? Why? Have you ever felt to cast or pray in Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or Hindi? Why not? Answer me that? You won't, because you know full well that it is nonsense for an English speaking Christian to struggle incorrectly pronouncing a language that they never learned from infancy. You were raised to call Him Jesus, but you through self deception feel that calling Him a Hebrew sounding name has some sort of special mojo.

Evang.Benincasa
09-24-2018, 10:04 PM
Mike, next time you are casting out devils use Ihu Karaiti.

houston
09-24-2018, 10:36 PM
Mike, next time you are casting out devils use Ihu Karaiti.

More of Aquila’s thing.

Evang.Benincasa
09-24-2018, 10:43 PM
More of Aquila’s thing.

Did Aquila get a full face tattoo?

bishoph
09-24-2018, 10:58 PM
I certainly do not claim to be a Hebrew or Greek scholar...... that said, the one thing I have always asked the modern day "Hebrew Roots" or Yeshua, or Institute of Metaphysical Research (another Yahweh group) etc. and have NEVER been given an answer. Is............. If the name is so important in the "original" language.....why haven't they studied and learned to read, speak, and write in that language? Since the Old Testament scriptures are "they which testify of Him" (Christ) then would it not be important to know the language, culture, and idioms of God's people? How can you search the scriptures to find eternal life IF you can't even read and rightly discern them?

The truth is, these doctrines arise out of pride and spiritual elitism where people try to find hidden deep mysteries of the Word and lose the simplicity that is in Christ! I am determined to know nothing among you save JESUS CHRIST and Him crucified!

houston
09-24-2018, 11:31 PM
Excellent post!

Esaias
09-25-2018, 01:01 AM
If Yeshua is the Name that God wants people to call him, then why didn't He say so in His inspired, inerrant, preserved word? why did He preserve His word in Greek, translated into many languages, with the name of the Saviour being translated from IESOUS? And not Yeshua? Or Y'shua? Or Yehoshua? Or Yahshua? Or Yahvahshua? Or Iahoshua? Or...?

Can we baptise in the name of Josh Messiah?

How in the world are we to even know which Sacred Name is correct? I've got a Restoration Sacred Name Bible that has a dozen pages in the front explaining that YAHVAH and YAHVAHSHUA are correct, and that the others are errors. I can google up a dozen more versions of the Names, all being offered as the "correct" Name. Which is correct? how would I even know?

aegsm76
09-25-2018, 08:11 AM
What about the demons cast out by trinitarian preachers?


And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

CalledOut238
09-25-2018, 08:36 AM
There is a diversity of dialects that can yield up to 7000 languages in the world. I find it interesting that English is considered a global language. When looking at the top ten languages in the world we find a wide array of names and pronunciation for our Savior. My point is that people telling others that their language is pagan and is not recognized by our Creator is idiotic. If you were born and raised in a home that spoke Hebrew, then I would not fault you for using Yeshua or any other Hebraic iteration of his name.

1. Mandarin: 1030 million speakers.
2. English: 890 million speakers.
3. Arabic: 560 million speakers.
4. Spanish: 420 million speakers.
5. Hindi: 380 million speakers.
6. Bengali: 210 million people.
7. Portuguese: 200 million speakers.
8. Russian: 170 million speakers.
9. French: 160 million speakers.
10. Urdu: 160 million speakers.

http://www.worldblaze.in/top-10-most-spoken-languages-in-the-world/

But those who use Hebrew construct of Jesus acting more enlightened than their brethren have a prideful spirit of elitism. When we go through all the iterations of Christ’s Hebrew name there is one conclusion and that is confusion. I am convinced that the sacred name movement was never about pronunciation; nor textual integrity, of the name of Christ. The goal was to create doubt in the name of Jesus. As children of faith we know one of our biggest enemies is doubt. What better way than to attack the faithful than to degrade the name of the one that they put their faith in when praying. I received the Holyghost in Jesus name and was born into the family of God.

Galatians 3:26 (KJV) For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Our Heavenly Father created diversity with all life to enhance the beauty of his creation. Peoples having varying appearances, cultures and languages seems to have begun through the disbursement from Nimrod’s Babylon. Because the people used their common strengths to defy our Creator. Now our Savior is calling all nations; to be obedient to the Gospel, to enter the Kingdom of God.

Matthew 25:32(KJV) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

A person’s appearance, culture or language is irrelevant to the call of repentance to be born again. To think Jesus will only hear those who speak in one language is vain. To make people feel ashamed of their native language is cruel. The goal of the body is seeking and saving that which is lost in sin. And that invitation is open to whosever will.

Revelation 22:17 (KJV) And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Selah

Michael The Disciple
09-25-2018, 09:14 AM
If you were born and raised in a home that spoke Hebrew, then I would not fault you for using Yeshua or any other Hebraic iteration of his name.

What if you are born and raised Hebrew but you would like to also use the name of Jesus? Would the name of Jesus be less effective spoken from the lips of a Jew?

Would it be considered "elitist" and pride for the Jew who would appreciate the name Jesus to use that name? Would it be wrong for him to pray in that name? To baptize in that name? To cast out demons in that name?

Should he be LIMITED to only using the Hebrew name he had been taught?

Should he be considered foolish or sinning if he uses the English name "Jesus"?

Evang.Benincasa
09-25-2018, 09:23 AM
What if you are born and raised Hebrew but you would like to also use the name of Jesus? Would the name of Jesus be less effective spoken from the lips of a Jew?

Would it be considered "elitist" and pride for the Jew who would appreciate the name Jesus to use that name? Would it be wrong for him to pray in that name? To baptize in that name? To cast out demons in that name?

Should he be LIMITED to only using the Hebrew name he had been taught?

Should he be considered foolish or sinning if he uses the English name "Jesus"?

Mike, you weren’t born in a home where you spoke Chinese.
Would you use the Chinese name for Christ, and the English.
You are stuck, and can’t admit that YOUR use and the Hebrew roots use of a Hebrew name is ridiculous. Did your mother, father, siblings, neighbors, the butcher, the baker, or the candle stick maker in your home town speak Hebrew?

No, so the use of the name in Hebrew is Judaizing, plain and simple.

Amanah
09-25-2018, 09:35 AM
It's from one extreme to the other, either idolizing or demonizing Judaica

Michael The Disciple
09-25-2018, 09:47 AM
Mike, you weren’t born in a home where you spoke Chinese.
Would you use the Chinese name for Christ, and the English.
You are stuck, and can’t admit that YOUR use and the Hebrew roots use of a Hebrew name is ridiculous. Did your mother, father, siblings, neighbors, the butcher, the baker, or the candle stick maker in your home town speak Hebrew?

No, so the use of the name in Hebrew is Judaizing, plain and simple.

So you wont answer my question. I wonder why?

Michael The Disciple
09-25-2018, 10:05 AM
Lets add this.

As an American raised to speak English suppose I wanted to use the Greek Iesou? I appreciate the Greek and along with calling the Savior by the English version of his name Jesus I call him Iesou?

Will I be trying to make myself "elite"?

Since I do this frequently am I now sinning because I ALSO call Jesus by his Greek name?

Michael The Disciple
09-25-2018, 10:34 AM
It's from one extreme to the other, either idolizing or demonizing Judaica

Idolize?

Think of it this way. Esaias said all the Apostolic Churches he knew in several states were post trib or leaning post trib. Others of us have noted almost no Apostolic Churches being post trib.

Now transfer that to the topic at hand. A few people on this forum become enraged at the thought of Jesus being called by a Hebrew name. They give testimonies of people who use such a name saying if you dont use the Hebrew name you are lost and warning how dangerous they are.

On the other hand IN MY EXPERIENCE, I have met ONE PERSON who believed it was a sin NOT to use the Hebrew.

ONE PERSON.

Yes on the internet I have seen such groups in my lifetime but I have actually encountered only one person who taught that.

I have met various people who ALSO call Jesus "Yeshua" who do NOT teach or believe it is wrong to use Jesus. There are multitudes around the world who are now doing so.

The ONLY man I ever knew who came to believe it wrong to use Jesus was the Pastor who baptized me in Jesus name! Years later he taught to use Yeshua only not just in baptism but in conversation.

It seems to me the great majority of people who are calling the Lord "Yeshua" are in no way making an idol out of Judica.

Im sure there are SOME who make an idol of the English name "Jesus". They condemn one for using any other. Some of them are more excited about the name of Jesus than the person of Jesus.

For a long time here on the forum I refrained from using YESHUA thinking since some ALWAYS attacked it and since I DONT believe one has to use it maybe it would be better not to.

Nonetheless during that time I was still attacked over it and have seen many threads preaching how bad it is. I came to see there was no use trying to have peace with people who do this.

So if Yeshua comes from my keyboard to the forum thats great. If Jesus comes from my keyboard thats great.

Amanah
09-25-2018, 11:10 AM
I don't mean to offend you Bro Michael.

I was just noting that the obsession over Hebrew Roots
to the obsession over seeing the workings of the Synagogue of Satan everywhere
seem to be from one extreme to the other.

CalledOut238
09-25-2018, 01:05 PM
What if you are born and raised Hebrew but you would like to also use the name of Jesus? Would the name of Jesus be less effective spoken from the lips of a Jew?"?Would it be considered "elitist" and pride for the Jew who would appreciate the name Jesus to use that name? Would it be wrong for him to pray in that name? To baptize in that name? To cast out demons in that name?"
Should he be LIMITED to only using the Hebrew name he had been taught?"
Should he be considered foolish or sinning if he uses the English name "Jesus"

All of these questions are a straw man argument. I believe you directed your question to me and not EB. Faith is predicated on believing. If you grew up in Hebrew family; and someone outside your family told you that your language was pagan, would that confuse you? If someone told you the English name Jesus is the only name God will recognize would that sway your faith? If I grew up speaking Hebrew; and my faith was in Christ's Hebrew name, why would I use another name? If you started using the English name Jesus to extol your scholastic clarity over your kinsmen, then you are being an elitist and prideful.

Judaizers will not stop with this nonsense. Some groups say that the term God is the actually name of Satan. And if you pray to God that you are praying to Satan himself. Some groups say that Iesous is the name for a pig; or Zeus, and these lies hurt and wound people. If the person wants to use another name for Christ as a direct result of them believing these lies, then I would take issue. If that person became ashamed of their heritage and language because of these lies, then I would take issue. Jews for Jesus; a messianic jewish organization, has been one of the biggest drivers for this movement in America. You can go to their website and see the star of Remphan of Chiun in their logo. They teach a Judaized Baptist doctrine because there is more fish in that water down faith.

Are you using the variant name of Christ for Him or them. Did our Heavenly Father call out; and command you to use the Hebrew name of the Messiah, before hearing about it from men? Or did you attain this name through a Messianic Teacher either personally, online or in a book? There is a sect; whom I am purposively avoiding to name, that teaches: "May his name be blotted out forever." What better way to achieve this than by discouraging Christians who believe in the name of Jesus. I do not believe it is our Heavenly Father's will for the light given to the nations to be extinguished by legalism.

Isaiah 42:4 (KJV) I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

Selah

Michael The Disciple
09-25-2018, 03:18 PM
All of these questions are a straw man argument. I believe you directed your question to me and not EB. Faith is predicated on believing. If you grew up in Hebrew family; and someone outside your family told you that your language was pagan, would that confuse you? If someone told you the English name Jesus is the only name God will recognize would that sway your faith? If I grew up speaking Hebrew; and my faith was in Christ's Hebrew name, why would I use another name? If you started using the English name Jesus to extol your scholastic clarity over your kinsmen, then you are being an elitist and prideful.

Pathetic. You wont answer the question because you know how ridiculous it would sound.

Judaizers will not stop with this nonsense. Some groups say that the term God is the actually name of Satan. And if you pray to God that you are praying to Satan himself.

And to YOU, anyone who uses the Hebrew name is a Judaizer. Even tho 95% of people who do use it are NOT.

People outside of Pentecost speak the kind of vile against ALL PENTECOSTALS. Snake handlers, law keepers, prosperity preachers.

Are you using the variant name of Christ for Him or them. Did our Heavenly Father call out; and command you to use the Hebrew name of the Messiah, before hearing about it from men?

Again this is so childish. As if one could not pray and study and come to a different conclusion than you.

Michael The Disciple
09-25-2018, 03:20 PM
I don't mean to offend you Bro Michael.

I was just noting that the obsession over Hebrew Roots
to the obsession over seeing the workings of the Synagogue of Satan everywhere
seem to be from one extreme to the other.

You did not offend me. "Obsession" is a good term.:highfive

Evang.Benincasa
09-25-2018, 03:55 PM
So you wont answer my question. I wonder why?

I did answer your question. You just refuse to acknowledge clear logic.

Evang.Benincasa
09-25-2018, 04:10 PM
Lets add this.

As an American raised to speak English suppose I wanted to use the Greek Iesou? I appreciate the Greek and along with calling the Savior by the English version of his name Jesus I call him Iesou?

Do you read my posts? I already dealt with this by saying if you were raised speaking English why call Jesus as they would in China. You don't speak Chinese, you weren't raised speaking Chinese. Yet, that isn't the issue here. There isn't a movement of people wanting to call Jesus Iesous, or use Greek terminology as their ecclesiastical everyday language. No buddy boy, that is reserved for Hebrew. You guys are Yah, Shaloming and Yeshuing all over the place. All pious as if the Hebrew language was liturgical and special. It isn't. You then claim you want to call Him what His mother and relatives called Him. Yet, the odds are very good that they called Him Iesous. Your New Testament has Aramaic words which are defined to the reader in GREEK. You don't have that in the Old Testament, because everyone spoke the language. In the LXX no Hebrew words are defined for the reader as in the New Testament because the readers were only Greek speaking Judeans. Who had Hellenized Judean names like Iesou. Also the largest Diaspora Hellenized Judeans were located in Alexandria Egypt. Where was Jesus taken as a child? Egypt where they all spoke Greek. Got the picture?



Will I be trying to make myself "elite"?

It is Judaizing.


Since I do this frequently am I now sinning because I ALSO call Jesus by his Greek name?

But who are you addressing? We speak English, so why address us with Yah, and Yeshua? Do you think we won't understand if you said God or Jesus?

Evang.Benincasa
09-25-2018, 04:27 PM
Pathetic. You wont answer the question because you know how ridiculous it would sound.

Mike, why do you use the Hebrew? We don't hold conversations here in Hebrew? Do you think the forum is filled with Hebrew speakers? Pathetic? Are you serious? You are the one with the issue here, not us. We speak English we use words like church, preacher, brother, elder, Bible, God and Jesus. We are shaloming or Yahwaying around the forum. There is no need. You on the other hand feel that using Hebrew is special? When did you hear someone use the word Yahweh or Yeshua? In the 60s, 70s, 80s? Mike, before that you only knew Him as Jesus. Why the change? That's ridiculous, but you already know that and that is why you are dodging.



And to YOU, anyone who uses the Hebrew name is a Judaizer.

Do you need to be dishonest when you are caught in the crack? No one said that "anyone" who uses Yeshua is a Judaizer. The issue is (readers will see) that over and over we have said if someone was raised in a family who speak Hebrew they are going to label things with Hebrew words. Why? Because it is their language. Not you Hoss, you weren't raised speaking Hebrew. So obviously and logically you are doing it for another reason. the same would go for someone calling Jesus by an Egyptian name. One would then wonder why someone who can't speak Egyptian is now calling Jesus by an Egyptian name.


Even tho 95% of people who do use it are NOT.

That would depend on the examples I have already have given in the thread. Using a foreign language (especially when you don't understand it) to call on God is farcical.


People outside of Pentecost speak the kind of vile against ALL PENTECOSTALS. Snake handlers, law keepers, prosperity preachers.
Again this is so childish. As if one could not pray and study and come to a different conclusion than you.

I was reading this to Sister B, (a woman who speaks fluently 3 languages) she said, show me someone who can speak their own language properly, before they start calling Jesus in language other than their own native tongue.

Evang.Benincasa
09-25-2018, 04:31 PM
Idolize?

Think of it this way. Esaias said all the Apostolic Churches he knew in several states were post trib or leaning post trib. Others of us have noted almost no Apostolic Churches being post trib.

Now transfer that to the topic at hand. A few people on this forum become enraged at the thought of Jesus being called by a Hebrew name. They give testimonies of people who use such a name saying if you dont use the Hebrew name you are lost and warning how dangerous they are.

On the other hand IN MY EXPERIENCE, I have met ONE PERSON who believed it was a sin NOT to use the Hebrew.

ONE PERSON.

Yes on the internet I have seen such groups in my lifetime but I have actually encountered only one person who taught that.

I have met various people who ALSO call Jesus "Yeshua" who do NOT teach or believe it is wrong to use Jesus. There are multitudes around the world who are now doing so.

The ONLY man I ever knew who came to believe it wrong to use Jesus was the Pastor who baptized me in Jesus name! Years later he taught to use Yeshua only not just in baptism but in conversation.

It seems to me the great majority of people who are calling the Lord "Yeshua" are in no way making an idol out of Judica.

Im sure there are SOME who make an idol of the English name "Jesus". They condemn one for using any other. Some of them are more excited about the name of Jesus than the person of Jesus.

For a long time here on the forum I refrained from using YESHUA thinking since some ALWAYS attacked it and since I DONT believe one has to use it maybe it would be better not to.

Nonetheless during that time I was still attacked over it and have seen many threads preaching how bad it is. I came to see there was no use trying to have peace with people who do this.

So if Yeshua comes from my keyboard to the forum thats great. If Jesus comes from my keyboard thats great.

It is utter confusion.

Nothing is so simple to see, and then ask the important question? Why not call Him by the name which is known around the globe. The name which had been in use 500 years before His birth? Jesus.

Michael The Disciple
09-25-2018, 05:09 PM
Its you guys thread. I should have known better.

Evang.Benincasa
09-25-2018, 05:46 PM
Its you guys thread. I should have known better.

Mike, so this is how you prove you have no defense for the usage of the name of Yeshua out of the mouth of an English speaker. A Hebrew using Jesus, instead of using Yeshua? Sadly that isn't as noticeable as the English speakers who not only use the name Yeshua, but Yahweh, Yah, Shalom, menha, shabot, etc. Now you will leave the thread because you won't dare say why you use Yeshua, or your incessant YAH.

Michael The Disciple
09-25-2018, 06:28 PM
Mike, so this is how you prove you have no defense for the usage of the name of Yeshua out of the mouth of an English speaker. A Hebrew using Jesus, instead of using Yeshua? Sadly that isn't as noticeable as the English speakers who not only use the name Yeshua, but Yahweh, Yah, Shalom, menha, shabot, etc. Now you will leave the thread because you won't dare say why you use Yeshua, or your incessant YAH.

So you really think its wrong for a Jew to use the name of Jesus? This staggers my mind. When I was a young believer in Jesus I was around people from various nations. There was never a thought that one must only call on Jesus in his own tongue. This is the height of legalism.

As to why I use YAH I am more than happy to say why.

Psalms 68:4

Sing to God, sing praises to his name, extol him who rides on the clouds, by his name YAH and rejoice before him.

I HONOR YAH. He came as Jesus.

You blaspheme him at your own risk.

houston
09-25-2018, 06:43 PM
So you really think its wrong for a Jew to use the name of Jesus? This staggers my mind. When I was a young believer in Jesus I was around people from various nations. There was never a thought that one must only call on Jesus in his own tongue. This is the height of legalism.

As to why I use YAH I am more than happy to say why.

Psalms 68:4

Sing to God, sing praises to his name, extol him who rides on the clouds, by his name YAH and rejoice before him.

I HONOR YAH. He came as Jesus.

You blaspheme him at your own risk.


So you refer to an OT name? That’s going backward.

Esaias
09-25-2018, 06:59 PM
If Yeshua is the Name that God wants people to call him, then why didn't He say so in His inspired, inerrant, preserved word? why did He preserve His word in Greek, translated into many languages, with the name of the Saviour being translated from IESOUS? And not Yeshua? Or Y'shua? Or Yehoshua? Or Yahshua? Or Yahvahshua? Or Iahoshua? Or...?

Can we baptise in the name of Josh Messiah?

How in the world are we to even know which Sacred Name is correct? I've got a Restoration Sacred Name Bible that has a dozen pages in the front explaining that YAHVAH and YAHVAHSHUA are correct, and that the others are errors. I can google up a dozen more versions of the Names, all being offered as the "correct" Name. Which is correct? how would I even know?

I guess there are no answers to my questions?

Evang.Benincasa
09-25-2018, 07:03 PM
So you really think its wrong for a Jew to use the name of Jesus?

What?



This staggers my mind. When I was a young believer in Jesus I was around people from various nations. There was never a thought that one must only call on Jesus in his own tongue. This is the height of legalism.

Mike, you...don't...speak...Hebrew. We...don't...speak....Hebrew.

Is that confusing?

So, if you were saying the name of Jesus in Maori, you'd expect everyone to think it was normal? When you can/'t speak or understand Maori?



As to why I use YAH I am more than happy to say why.

Psalms 68:4

Sing to God, sing praises to his name, extol him who rides on the clouds, by his name YAH and rejoice before him.

I HONOR YAH. He came as Jesus.

You blaspheme him at your own risk.

Mike, you are religiously frustrated.

Blaspheme? You live in a closed in religious world where you make the rules. That is legalism, but all religion has legalism or it ceases to be a religion. Therefore you create your own religion. YAH? Is important to God? In the KJV it is Jah, in the NIV and ESV it is LORD. In the LXX which is what is quoted in the New Testament, the words are "the Lord is His name." If the adverb יָהּ was so important why was it left out of the Psalm in the LXX? But even more important why is it not even transliterated in the New Testament? Mike, you are so caught up into the Hebrew Roots of the 70s that you believe these things concerning Hebrew names are important enough to make sure YOU use them. Even though you don't understand them.

Evang.Benincasa
09-25-2018, 07:06 PM
So you refer to an OT name? That’s going backward.




Excellent!

:highfive :thumbsup

Because that is exactly what Hebrew Roots, and Yahwists' teachings are designed to do. Hence Judaizing is rebuked by the Apostle Paul.

houston
09-25-2018, 07:19 PM
I guess there are no answers to my questions?


Nope

houston
09-25-2018, 07:20 PM
Excellent!

:highfive :thumbsup

Because that is exactly what Hebrew Roots, and Yahwists' teachings are designed to do. Hence Judaizing is rebuked by the Apostle Paul.

Acts 4:12

CalledOut238
09-26-2018, 08:12 AM
What if you are born and raised Hebrew but you would like to also use the name of Jesus? Would the name of Jesus be less effective spoken from the lips of a Jew?
Pathetic. You won’t answer the question because you know how ridiculous it would sound.

Using rhetorical terms like Pathetic and childish is called deflection. I did answer your question with a question:
If I grew up speaking Hebrew; and my faith was in Christ's Hebrew name, why would I use another name?

Would it be considered "elitist" and pride for the Jew who would appreciate the name Jesus to use that name? Would it be wrong for him to pray in that name? To baptize in that name? To cast out demons in that name?

I answered this question:
If you started using the English name Jesus to extol your scholastic clarity over your kinsmen, then you are being an elitist and prideful.

And to YOU, anyone who uses the Hebrew name is a Judaizer. Even though 95% of people who do use it are NOT.

Those who speak Hebrew as their native tongue; and follow Jewish customs, cannot be Judaizers. I would consider it normal for Jewish converts to Christianity to use the Hebrew name of Christ. There is a large portion of Judiacs who use Yeshu or Yeshua in a very disparaging way. Judaizers are Messianic Christians who observe Jewish customs and practices and try to persuade others in the faith to follow their teachings.

Again this is so childish. As if one could not pray and study and come to a different conclusion than you.

That was a straightforward question that you would not answer. Did you learn the name Yeshua from a person first or the did Holyghost revealed it to you first?

It is obvious that you are missing everyone’s point. There is a proper time, place and audience when using a name connected to a person’s faith. I would not go into a synagogue declaring that Jesus is the true name of our God and King causing confusion. If I were invited to speak in a synagogue on Jesus, then listeners would have an expectation and not be offended. But if the minister of the Hebrew congregation preferred that I would use Yeshua then I would abide by their request to preach the gospel.

Ecclesiastes 3:1 (KJV) To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

1 Corinthians 9:20 (KJV) And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law.

Biblical Hebrew is a dead language that people in the 19th century has revived. There are people who will contend with you that the Aramaic name Eashoa, Esa or Isa was the name Christ would have used. Others will contend that koine Greek was the language of the common people and they would have called him Iesous. To believe the Creator of the universe prefers a revived dead or any other language; over all other languages, is folly and vain. To push a Hebrew, Aramaic or any other name to English speakers causes discord. And the inverse would be true if in the midst of Hebrew or Aramaic speakers. I appeal to your common sense with this matter so there is no aught between the brethren.

Proverbs 6:16 (KJV)These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: 17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, 19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Selah

Steve Epley
09-26-2018, 08:17 AM
Again after all these years I have not personally met one of these guys who speak or read Hebrew. Having a Strong’s concordance does not make you a Hebrew scholar. :thumbsup