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Aquila
10-02-2018, 01:55 PM
I felt like this was rather thought provoking. As a man, I don't think I've really thought about this...

Men ask why women are so angry, even guys with wives and daughters. Jackson Katz, a prominent social researcher, illustrates why. He's done it with hundreds of audiences:

"I draw a line down the middle of a chalkboard, sketching a male symbol on one side and a female symbol on the other.

Then I ask just the men: What steps do you guys take, on a daily basis, to prevent yourselves from being sexually assaulted? At first there is a kind of awkward silence as the men try to figure out if they've been asked a trick question. The silence gives way to a smattering of nervous laughter. Occasionally, a young a guy will raise his hand and say, 'I stay out of prison.' This is typically followed by another moment of laughter, before someone finally raises his hand and soberly states, 'Nothing. I don't think about it.'

Then I ask the women the same question. What steps do you take on a daily basis to prevent yourselves from being sexually assaulted? Women throughout the audience immediately start raising their hands. As the men sit in stunned silence, the women recount safety precautions they take as part of their daily routine.

Hold my keys as a potential weapon.
Look in the back seat of the car before getting in.
Carry a cell phone.
Don't go jogging at night.
Lock all the windows when I sleep, even on hot summer nights.
Be careful not to drink too much.
Don't put my drink down and come back to it; make sure I see it being poured.
Own a big dog.
Carry Mace or pepper spray.
Have an unlisted phone number.
Have a man's voice on my answering machine.
Park in well-lit areas.
Don't use parking garages.
Don't get on elevators with only one man, or with a group of men.
Vary my route home from work.
Watch what I wear.
Don't use highway rest areas.
Use a home alarm system.
Don't wear headphones when jogging.
Avoid forests or wooded areas, even in the daytime.
Don't take a first-floor apartment.
Go out in groups.
Own a firearm.
Meet men on first dates in public places.
Make sure to have a car or cab fare.
Don't make eye contact with men on the street.
Make assertive eye contact with men on the street.”

― Jackson Katz, The Macho Paradox: Why Some Men Hurt Women and How All Men Can Help

(The first man to minor in women's studies at the University of Massachusetts-Amherst, holds a master's degree from the Harvard Graduate School of Education, and a Ph.D. in cultural studies and education from UCLA.)


What other daily, or routine, realities might women experience that don't even show up on the radar in the lives of men?

Esaias
10-02-2018, 02:09 PM
Everyone knows women are more likely to be raped (attempted or successful). Thus, concealed carry and time at the boxing gym. Works for men, too.

derAlte
10-02-2018, 02:12 PM
This is a very interesting topic. As a naïve white guy, I was dismayed to find out that my African-American son-in-law and his family have to take similar actions to avoid ugly confrontations. Unfortunately, I was surprised to find out they are exposed to race-inspired hostility rather frequently. I had no idea. Makes me sick. It breaks my heart to hear my grandson tell me that already in third grade he gets called the "N" word or "poop stain," because of the color of his skin. Lily-white Grandpa doesn't know what to say.

Amanah
10-02-2018, 02:15 PM
Both men and women are potential victims of assault. Both should be wary and street smart.

Women need to be more cautious in general because they are typically smaller and not as strong as a man, but a glock can be an equalizer.

Even a man could be sexually assaulted at gunpoint.

Esaias
10-02-2018, 02:24 PM
Traveling alone can be very dangerous in this day and age. Its always good to have a compadre with you.

Also, criminals look for people whose body language says the person is unsure or preoccupied. It also helps to avoid bad areas. Situational awareness goes a long way.

Esaias
10-02-2018, 02:43 PM
I felt like this was rather thought provoking. As a man, I don't think I've really thought about this...


What kind of man doesn't give thought to his wife's, daughters', and mother's safety?

aegsm76
10-02-2018, 03:05 PM
I felt like this was rather thought provoking. As a man, I don't think I've really thought about this...

Men ask why women are so angry, even guys with wives and daughters. Jackson Katz, a prominent social researcher, illustrates why. He's done it with hundreds of audiences:

"I draw a line down the middle of a chalkboard, sketching a male symbol on one side and a female symbol on the other.

Then I ask just the men: What steps do you guys take, on a daily basis, to prevent yourselves from being sexually assaulted? At first there is a kind of awkward silence as the men try to figure out if they've been asked a trick question. The silence gives way to a smattering of nervous laughter. Occasionally, a young a guy will raise his hand and say, 'I stay out of prison.' This is typically followed by another moment of laughter, before someone finally raises his hand and soberly states, 'Nothing. I don't think about it.'

Then I ask the women the same question. What steps do you take on a daily basis to prevent yourselves from being sexually assaulted? Women throughout the audience immediately start raising their hands. As the men sit in stunned silence, the women recount safety precautions they take as part of their daily routine.

Hold my keys as a potential weapon.
Look in the back seat of the car before getting in.
Carry a cell phone.
Don't go jogging at night.
Lock all the windows when I sleep, even on hot summer nights.
Be careful not to drink too much.
Don't put my drink down and come back to it; make sure I see it being poured.
Own a big dog.
Carry Mace or pepper spray.
Have an unlisted phone number.
Have a man's voice on my answering machine.
Park in well-lit areas.
Don't use parking garages.
Don't get on elevators with only one man, or with a group of men.
Vary my route home from work.
Watch what I wear.
Don't use highway rest areas.
Use a home alarm system.
Don't wear headphones when jogging.
Avoid forests or wooded areas, even in the daytime.
Don't take a first-floor apartment.
Go out in groups.
Own a firearm.
Meet men on first dates in public places.
Make sure to have a car or cab fare.
Don't make eye contact with men on the street.
Make assertive eye contact with men on the street.”

― Jackson Katz, The Macho Paradox: Why Some Men Hurt Women and How All Men Can Help

(The first man to minor in women's studies at the University of Massachusetts-Amherst, holds a master's degree from the Harvard Graduate School of Education, and a Ph.D. in cultural studies and education from UCLA.)


What other daily, or routine, realities might women experience that don't even show up on the radar in the lives of men?

When I first saw this list (I think it was late last week), I queried the women I know about it.
Almost all of them said this list was a bunch of baloney.
Now, some of them have been harassed and even assaulted, but they said they have never done all of the things on this list.
Just more self-flagellation from a someone seeking attention

BuckeyeBukaroo
10-02-2018, 03:10 PM
When I first saw this list (I think it was late last week), I queried the women I know about it.
Almost all of them said this list was a bunch of baloney.
Now, some of them have been harassed and even assaulted, but they said they have never done all of the things on this list.
Just more self-flagellation from a someone seeking attention

I know women who do practice some of the things listed on this list. Most of what is listed is indeed practical. I have advised women (even the Mrs and my owner younger sister) to do some of those practical things.

Originalist
10-02-2018, 03:20 PM
This is a very interesting topic. As a naïve white guy, I was dismayed to find out that my African-American son-in-law and his family have to take similar actions to avoid ugly confrontations. Unfortunately, I was surprised to find out they are exposed to race-inspired hostility rather frequently. I had no idea. Makes me sick. It breaks my heart to hear my grandson tell me that already in third grade he gets called the "N" word or "poop stain," because of the color of his skin. Lily-white Grandpa doesn't know what to say.

I think you are taking your whiteness a little too seriously. The best thing you can tell your grandson is that 99.99 % of people of non-African descent in this country don't think like the kid that called him the N word, and to put it out of his mind. Else he will grow up being indoctrinated of what a poor victim he is.

Originalist
10-02-2018, 03:22 PM
Both men and women are potential victims of assault. Both should be wary and street smart.

Women need to be more cautious in general because they are typically smaller and not as strong as a man, but a glock can be an equalizer.

Even a man could be sexually assaulted at gunpoint.


As a white male, I'm starting to look over my shoulder more. We are the new target of choice of left wing nutcases of all races.

Aquila
10-02-2018, 03:24 PM
This is a very interesting topic. As a naïve white guy, I was dismayed to find out that my African-American son-in-law and his family have to take similar actions to avoid ugly confrontations. Unfortunately, I was surprised to find out they are exposed to race-inspired hostility rather frequently. I had no idea. Makes me sick. It breaks my heart to hear my grandson tell me that already in third grade he gets called the "N" word or "poop stain," because of the color of his skin. Lily-white Grandpa doesn't know what to say.

Wow. That's rough.

I guess all we can do is try to put such mindsets behind us as individuals.

Aquila
10-02-2018, 03:25 PM
Both men and women are potential victims of assault. Both should be wary and street smart.

Women need to be more cautious in general because they are typically smaller and not as strong as a man, but a glock can be an equalizer.

Even a man could be sexually assaulted at gunpoint.

I know that factually you're absolutely correct.

But honestly, I don't ever remember leaving the house afraid of being sexually assaulted or even considering preventative measures to avoid being sexually assaulted.

It has just never entered my mind.

Aquila
10-02-2018, 03:26 PM
Traveling alone can be very dangerous in this day and age. Its always good to have a compadre with you.

Also, criminals look for people whose body language says the person is unsure or preoccupied. It also helps to avoid bad areas. Situational awareness goes a long way.

Good advice. :thumbsup

Aquila
10-02-2018, 03:28 PM
What kind of man doesn't give thought to his wife's, daughters', and mother's safety?

That wasn't what I wasn't thinking about.

I wasn't thinking about the extent to which women routinely go to protect themselves from sexual assault. It was just interesting insight into a day in the life of a woman. And that got me thinking about how many other things are routine for a woman that I might not give much thought to.

Esaias
10-02-2018, 03:29 PM
As a white male, I'm starting to look over my shoulder more. We are the new target of choice of left wing nutcases of all races.

I grew up running around Third Ward and other choice neighborhoods in Houston and San Antonio. I learned to be aware of my surroundings a long time ago. I was sneaking out at night when I was 12, joyriding in cars when I was 14, first night in jail at 17. Spent many a Friday night on Elgin St in my high school days, was running around homeless in downtown Galveston at 19.

The idea that a man under the age of 65 might not have his head on a swivel at all times is literally beyond my comprehension.

Aquila
10-02-2018, 03:31 PM
When I first saw this list (I think it was late last week), I queried the women I know about it.
Almost all of them said this list was a bunch of baloney.
Now, some of them have been harassed and even assaulted, but they said they have never done all of the things on this list.
Just more self-flagellation from a someone seeking attention

Try to remember that this list represents the kind of list created by a group of women in a seminar style setting. Certainly anyone with common sense knows that every woman doesn't do every single thing on the list. Personally, I don't know any single women who have a man's voice on their answering machine. But, I don't doubt that some women might, based on their location or dating circumstances.

Aquila
10-02-2018, 03:32 PM
I know women who do practice some of the things listed on this list. Most of what is listed is indeed practical. I have advised women (even the Mrs and my owner younger sister) to do some of those practical things.

Me too. But a few of the things on the list I just never considered.

Esaias
10-02-2018, 03:33 PM
That wasn't what I wasn't thinking about.

I wasn't thinking about the extent to which women routinely go to protect themselves from sexual assault. It was just interesting insight into a day in the life of a woman. And that got me thinking about how many other things are routine for a woman that I might not give much thought to.

What? You never gave much thought to what? To what dangers women face and what they can/should do to be safe? Or do you mean you haven't given much thought to what it's like wearing a maxipad or a tampon, perming the hair, waxing your legs, color coordinating your outfits, or trying to figure out which pair of shoes go with Wednesday?

Aquila
10-02-2018, 03:40 PM
What? You never gave much thought to what? To what dangers women face and what they can/should do to be safe? Or do you mean you haven't given much thought to what it's like wearing a maxipad or a tampon, perming the hair, waxing your legs, color coordinating your outfits, or trying to figure out which pair of shoes go with Wednesday?

I told you what I hadn't given much thought to. :crazy

And, that caused me to wonder what other things are routine in a woman's life that I'm not aware of.

And no, I'm not talking about the things you've mentioned. I'm talking about things that perhaps women don't even think of disclosing or discussing. Or perhaps things they just feel we'll never understand.

Esaias
10-02-2018, 03:42 PM
I told you what I hadn't given much thought to. :crazy

It read like you hadn't given much thought to women's safety issues.

Aquila
10-02-2018, 03:48 PM
It read like you hadn't given much thought to women's safety issues.

I could tell that's how you read it. I'm aware of the safety issues. However, I guess I never contemplated the extent to which some women might need to go to ensure their safety.

As a man, part of me is troubled that women feel that way. I guess the only thing we can do is be good men and raise good men. Because it's the toxic manhood that is often taught on the streets, in locker rooms, and presented by certain forms of media that contributes to the problem. When men are allowed to see women as objects, it only facilitates men treating women like objects. In a very real way, women get dehumanized in so many contexts. Even in those moments wherein they are not even present and guys are just doing "guy talk" or telling jokes that are only funny... if you're a man.

But even if we successfully did all we could do to be good men and to raise good men... there would still be men out there that cause women to have to take such precautions. I have a step daughter and biological son. I have to help train a young woman, and help train a young man. Maybe it was just a reminder to me to step up my game as a dad. And perhaps be more sensitive to the women in my life.

Esaias
10-02-2018, 03:56 PM
I could tell that's how you read it. I'm aware of the safety issues. However, I guess I never contemplated the extent to which some women might need to go to ensure their safety.

As a man, part of me is troubled that women feel that way. I guess the only thing we can do is be good men and raise good men. Because it's the toxic manhood that is often taught on the streets, in locker rooms, and presented by certain forms of media that contributes to the problem. When men are allowed to see women as objects, it only facilitates men treating women like objects.

Women have a role in this as well. It's cliche, but trust me, a lot of women get themselves into trouble they could avoid. Ranging from simple situational awareness (don't go alone into a darkened alley or parking garage at 2 am) to don't dress like a whore and get drunk hanging out with questionable guys.



But even if we successfully did all we could do to be good men and to raise good men... there would still be men out there that cause women to have to take such precautions.

Which is why any effort to disarm civilians should be seen for what it is - an intentional attempt to increase the rape and pillaging of innocent people.

Aquila
10-02-2018, 04:07 PM
Women have a role in this as well. It's cliche, but trust me, a lot of women get themselves into trouble they could avoid. Ranging from simple situational awareness (don't go alone into a darkened alley or parking garage at 2 am) to don't dress like a whore and get drunk hanging out with questionable guys.

I agree. I've taught the same thing to my daughter, and her mother has told her bluntly, "Honey, don't advertise what isn't for sale."

Which is why any effort to disarm civilians should be seen for what it is - an intentional attempt to increase the rape and pillaging of innocent people.

I haven't seen any effort to disarm civilians. Yes, some have notions involving more extensive background checks and bans on specific kinds of weapons. But we both know that the effectiveness of such measures is a debatable topic.

But about guns, as it relates to this thread. I think fathers who teach their daughters how to handle a firearm do their daughters great service. Especially in this day and hour.

Esaias
10-02-2018, 04:10 PM
I haven't seen any effort to disarm civilians.

Of course not, you've been feelin the Bern and lost your eyesight. :laffatu

n david
10-02-2018, 04:18 PM
As a white male, I'm starting to look over my shoulder more. We are the new target of choice of left wing nutcases of all races.
:nod

I won't wear political clothing or put bumper stickers or window decals on my cars because I've read too many news reports of wackos attacking people over it.

Esaias
10-02-2018, 05:05 PM
:nod

I won't wear political clothing or put bumper stickers or window decals on my cars because I've read too many news reports of wackos attacking people over it.

Glad I live in rural Texas. Don't have to worry about that kind of stuff too much.

Evang.Benincasa
10-02-2018, 05:44 PM
What kind of man doesn't give thought to his wife's, daughters', and mother's safety?

Brother, consider the person you are asking.

Evang.Benincasa
10-02-2018, 05:46 PM
:nod

I won't wear political clothing or put bumper stickers or window decals on my cars because I've read too many news reports of wackos attacking people over it.

Down here in Broward/Dade counties you mess with someone's car you get shot.

n david
10-02-2018, 05:51 PM
it's the toxic manhood
You lost me at "toxic manhood."

houston
10-02-2018, 05:54 PM
You lost me at "toxic manhood."

Typed while sporting his pink knit hat.

Evang.Benincasa
10-02-2018, 08:38 PM
Typed while sporting his pink knit hat.

That deserves a standing ovation. Good one :thumbsup

https://media.giphy.com/media/11sBLVxNs7v6WA/giphy.gif

Evang.Benincasa
10-02-2018, 08:42 PM
You lost me at "toxic manhood."

Is he trying to say he wants to be more like a woman?

If he keeps smoking that marijuana, he will boost that phytoestrogen so much his wish will come true

Aquila
10-03-2018, 07:14 AM
Of course not, you've been feelin the Bern and lost your eyesight. :laffatu

:p

Aquila
10-03-2018, 07:18 AM
:nod

I won't wear political clothing or put bumper stickers or window decals on my cars because I've read too many news reports of wackos attacking people over it.

I've had my Jeep keyed because of my politics. It's a shame really. Gone are the days when people could sit outside, sip sweet tea, and discuss their political differences peacefully, and with a bit of jest. :(

Aquila
10-03-2018, 07:21 AM
You lost me at "toxic manhood."

When I say toxic manhood, I'm referring to the callous, cold, misogynistic, often abusive, kind of manhood that often contributes to abusive tendencies. Anyone who has a daughter or female that they love can recognize it when they see it. I'm not talking about strong, honest, pure, gentlemanly, or rugged manhood.

Amanah
10-03-2018, 07:24 AM
When I say toxic manhood, I'm referring to the callous, cold, misogynistic, often abusive, kind of manhood that often contributes to abusive tendencies. Anyone who has a daughter or female that they love can recognize it when they see it. I'm not talking about strong, honest, pure, gentlemanly, or rugged manhood.

you mean the difference between dictator and servant leader.

Aquila
10-03-2018, 07:29 AM
Is he trying to say he wants to be more like a woman?

If he keeps smoking that marijuana, he will boost that phytoestrogen so much his wish will come true

Since marijuana is illegal, I don't smoke it. And if it were, I'd only consider it medicinally, if I consulted a doctor and consensus was that it might serve a medical purpose.

Seeing that such is illegal, this boarders on libel. Why do you keep perpetuating lies?

You are of your father the devil. He was a liar and a murderer from the beginning. I rebuke you in the name of Jesus. I bind your sin and slander upon you. May your name become a byword in the streets of your people, the skies above you become black as sackcloth, and your moon become as blood. May the heavens above you be brass. May your enemies carry away your wives and children, may their bee weeping in the streets of your desolation. May God laugh in the day of your calamity. And may God serve as the judge and witness between me and thee, that all might now the power of the LORD of Hosts, who delivers justice to the innocent, and judgment to the cherlish mocker. In the name of JESUS.

Let us bury the lies.

Aquila
10-03-2018, 07:29 AM
you mean the difference between dictator and servant leader.

Amen.