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houston
10-08-2018, 04:50 PM
UPCI FACEBOOK PAGE:
Racism is a sin. The UPCI strongly opposes racism in all of its forms. Check out our recent report, Minority Participation in the UPCI: bit.ly/2E91QMm , and our 2008 position paper, Racial and Ethnic Affirmation: http://bit.ly/2yrr1Ua
——

houston
10-08-2018, 04:52 PM
2008

https://www.upci.org/statement-archive/article/2008/10/racial-and-ethnic-affirmation

houston
10-08-2018, 04:53 PM
2018

https://www.upci.org/recent-releases/article/2018/08/minority-participation-in-the-upci

houston
10-15-2018, 03:33 AM
Missouri Congregation Quits United Pentecostal Church in Video Protesting Racism

“A controversial debate about racism in the United Pentecostal Church International is now raging in the denomination after an interracial couple who led one of the denomination's churches in Missouri for 15 years announced their exit from the group on Sunday.”

Source (https://www.christianpost.com/news/missouri-congregation-quits-united-pentecostal-church-in-video-protesting-racism-227876/)

jediwill83
10-15-2018, 04:10 AM
Seeing a lot of SJW talking points in that article.


Seems shes not opposed to using statistics to back up her position so at least shes not one of those people that think numerical statistics are racist.


What kind of profiling is she talking about?


Profiling by cops or profiling in the church?

Esaias
10-15-2018, 05:45 AM
Missouri Congregation Quits United Pentecostal Church in Video Protesting Racism

“A controversial debate about racism in the United Pentecostal Church International is now raging in the denomination after an interracial couple who led one of the denomination's churches in Missouri for 15 years announced their exit from the group on Sunday.”

Source (https://www.christianpost.com/news/missouri-congregation-quits-united-pentecostal-church-in-video-protesting-racism-227876/)

They complained that the UPCI approach to the black community focuses on "poverty" and that's racist. Meanwhile, just below that article we have this:

Well-known social justice advocate and pastor of Greenleaf Christian Church in Goldsboro, North Carolina, William J. Barber II, has been announced as one of 25 people to receive a MacArthur "genius" fellowship that comes with an unrestricted $625,000 grant.
...
Barber is being recognized for "building broad-based fusion coalitions as part of a moral movement to confront racial and economic inequality."

The moral movement is the Poor People's Campaign which makes a national call for moral revival.

derAlte
10-15-2018, 11:59 AM
Why do I have this nagging suspicion there is more to the exit of this church than just racism?

n david
10-15-2018, 12:18 PM
Why do I have this nagging suspicion there is more to the exit of this church than just racism?
I believe there's something more as well.

houston
10-15-2018, 12:34 PM
Why do I have this nagging suspicion there is more to the exit of this church than just racism?

Of course there’s more.

n david
10-15-2018, 12:40 PM
They bring up the hierarchy of the UPCI not having any blacks in office and point to the PAW as having two previous Prelates who were white. That was in the 70s and 80s. Since then, every Prelate has been black and the current hierarchy of the PAW is solely black.

Let's not pretend the PAW is some perfect organization without any preference to race.

The comment section of the FB video is sad, so much hate and division.

Wasn't surprised to see an old AFFer in the comment section.

Hope this couple is happy with the result of their bitter video. Instead of being part of a solution which brings people together, they've opened up more bitterness and caused even more division.

houston
10-15-2018, 01:11 PM
1 of the 6 comments was by an AFF’er?

n david
10-15-2018, 01:46 PM
1 of the 6 comments was by an AFF’er?
No, the FB page where they added their video has hundreds of comments. Not a good look for the UPCI.

Lot of comments about racism and other issues people left over.

n david
10-15-2018, 01:52 PM
The church my father pastored was mostly white. That was not due to any racism or desire to be a white church.

There was a black couple who began attending with their children. He came to my father's office shortly after and said their former pastor from a black church nearby visited their home and told them my father and the church was racist and they didn't belong there. He told them blacks needed to worship with their own people.

Fortunately this family didn't agree and sent this pastor away.

We had heard rumors, but until then had been unable to know it was true or who was doing it.

houston
10-15-2018, 02:33 PM
No, the FB page where they added their video has hundreds of comments. Not a good look for the UPCI.

Lot of comments about racism and other issues people left over.


Exactly who I thought it was. Met him once. Nice guy. Children were very well mannered and respectful. I picked them up and went to Grace Church -I think. It was the night Jeremy Foster announced that he was leaving. He paid for my meal, and maybe fuel. At this point he wasn’t where he is today. I think he was at the point of no tormenting hell. I really hate the path that he and others took. It saddens me.

I watched the video. They left because DKB didn’t wave a BLM banner at General Conference. Got it.

It troubles me that 13% of the population wants to control everything.

houston
10-15-2018, 02:42 PM
The church my father pastored was mostly white. That was not due to any racism or desire to be a white church.

There was a black couple who began attending with their children. He came to my father's office shortly after and said their former pastor from a black church nearby visited their home and told them my father and the church was racist and they didn't belong there. He told them blacks needed to worship with their own people.

Fortunately this family didn't agree and sent this pastor away.

We had heard rumors, but until then had been unable to know it was true or who was doing it.

The woman who arranged for me to get a ride to the UPCI is black. I could never get her to visit. She would say that when she goes to church, it will be a black church.

The only blacks attending were kids that were bussed in for Sunday School.

The church was probably more latino than white. The pastor was white.
Something I noticed that would bother me... alot. When the youth were referring to people, it was always the black man or woman. Whites and latinos were just the man or woman.

I do recall a story told by the assistant pastor. He spoke of an interracial couple from some church- the pastor refused to marry them. Why? Because he would be limiting his ministry if he took a bride of another race. So they got married anyway. I’m sure it was a horror story but I don’t recall the details.

aegsm76
10-15-2018, 02:52 PM
Are there racists who attend UPCI churches?
I am sure there are.
Are there racists who attend PAW churches?
I am sure there are.
Has racism been preached against by the UPCI?
Yes.
At almost every national event that I have attended, that I can remember.
Is there less racism in the UPCI than in the general popluation.
I would say far less.
But it still exists.
Just as adultery, fornication, envy, etc...

n david
10-15-2018, 03:25 PM
I do recall a story told by the assistant pastor. He spoke of an interracial couple from some church- the pastor refused to marry them. Why? Because he would be limiting his ministry if he took a bride of another race. So they got married anyway. I’m sure it was a horror story but I don’t recall the details.
One of the comments in the FB post is about interracial marriage and how a UPCI Pastor refused to officiate the wedding.

I knew a black Pastor (UPCI) in the midwest who refused to officiate marriages for interracial couples. He told my father the reason is because he believed the black community (at that time, back in the early 90s) wouldn't fully accept a bi-racial baby, nor would the white community accept a black spouse.

My father was never asked to officiate for an interracial marriage between black/white spouses. Based on his close friendship with the Pastor mentioned above, I'm not sure he would have. He did officiate for my brother who married a girl from Mexico. He also officiated for a couple in which the man was white and the girl was Korean.

houston
10-15-2018, 03:34 PM
If my pastor wouldn’t officiate my wedding he would cease to be my pastor.One of the comments in the FB post is about interracial marriage and how a UPCI Pastor refused to officiate the wedding.

I knew a black Pastor (UPCI) in the midwest who refused to officiate marriages for interracial couples. He told my father the reason is because he believed the black community (at that time, back in the early 90s) wouldn't fully accept a bi-racial baby, nor would the white community accept a black spouse.

My father was never asked to officiate for an interracial marriage between black/white spouses. Based on his close friendship with the Pastor mentioned above, I'm not sure he would have. He did officiate for my brother who married a girl from Mexico. He also officiated for a couple in which the man was white and the girl was Korean.

houston
10-15-2018, 06:56 PM
https://www.facebook.com/368510623218612/posts/1942242585845400/

Evang.Benincasa
10-15-2018, 07:05 PM
So what do they want?

houston
10-15-2018, 07:21 PM
So what do they want?


The passing of a resolution stating that top positions are open to all races. :lol

Evang.Benincasa
10-15-2018, 07:22 PM
One of the comments in the FB post is about interracial marriage and how a UPCI Pastor refused to officiate the wedding.

I knew a black Pastor (UPCI) in the midwest who refused to officiate marriages for interracial couples. He told my father the reason is because he believed the black community (at that time, back in the early 90s) wouldn't fully accept a bi-racial baby, nor would the white community accept a black spouse.

My father was never asked to officiate for an interracial marriage between black/white spouses. Based on his close friendship with the Pastor mentioned above, I'm not sure he would have. He did officiate for my brother who married a girl from Mexico. He also officiated for a couple in which the man was white and the girl was Korean.

Hey, my wife is Greek American and I'm Sicilian Floridian.

Evang.Benincasa
10-15-2018, 07:24 PM
The passing of a resolution stating that top positions are open to all races. :lol


Funny, we are in the lineage of Christ, who cares about eugenics.

houston
10-15-2018, 07:47 PM
Funny, we are in the lineage of Christ, who cares about eugenics.


They want the higher ups to be black. That’s all it is.

n david
10-15-2018, 09:45 PM
https://www.facebook.com/368510623218612/posts/1942242585845400/

"We didn't intend to cause division by putting out a vague accusation against the UPCI of racism...."

Gimme a break. Some people are begging for attention.

The video shows clearly who is the better reader in the marriage. Pretty sure it shows who's wearing the pants as well.

Hint: it isn't the male.

n david
10-15-2018, 10:55 PM
The first video was about "systemic" racism. Funny, they said they don't mean the UPCI is racist as a whole and they know not everyone in the UPCI is racist...but they use the word "systemic" over and over. I'm not sure they know what the word means, because "systemic" relates to the whole of something as opposed to a particular part. So by claiming the UPCI has systemic racism, they're saying as a whole, the UPCI is racist.

But we've also added something else in this new video.

GENDER EQUALITY!!!!

The woman read her bit demanding the UPCI pass a resolution clearly stating that all positions are open to every color and gender.

There is no way a woman will be the General Superintendent of the UPCI. Will. Not. Happen. Take your feminist, liberal, social justice junk and go home. Not happening.

Also, is she saying that a man should be allowed to lead the Ladies ministries or vice versa???

I would even be against a woman Youth President.

Also noticed that organization they claimed to have joined in their first video....now they say they created it.

:toofunny

Hope the man finds his manhood and takes control of his marriage and ministry before she ruins him. I've known and have had experience with enough dominant females to see that woman runs the ministry, not him.

houston
10-15-2018, 11:12 PM
In the 1st video I knew Jezebel was looking at me through her eyes. Imagine a woman presbyter. Nah.

jediwill83
10-16-2018, 02:49 AM
In the 1st video I knew Jezebel was looking at me through her eyes. Imagine a woman presbyter. Nah.





I know that Jezebel is considered a catch all cliche for certain women and its usually describing an attitude or outward appearance...but the real danger is being led to serve other gods and giving place to idolatry...its a unbalanced relationship where the man allows the woman to lead him into error. The problem here...the REAL problem isnt the Jezebel...its the Ahab ALLOWING it to happen.


Christ died for ALL sin ...even the abuses experienced during slave ownership and racial attitudes. Its not THEIR debt that they can wield at will at whites to demand they "pay up".



CHRIST paid ALL our debt....He suffered the punishment of ALL our transgressions and tasted death so we upon receiving that gift of salvation can walk in life that we did not earn through our own efforts.


Our debt was paid...so what right do we have to turn around and grab our fellow servant by the throat and demand "Pay me what you owe me to make up for your "systemic racism" "?


We dont.


What has been done against me...I cannot lay on their charge....because I have been forgiven MY debt...I can no longer be a "bill collector" for debt I do not own...all debt was laid on Him..HE owns the debt now ...and the only thing pleasing in Gods sight to do with debt a fellow servant or anyone for that matter may "owe" me is to forgive that debt.


They should be teaching forgiveness...NOT debt collection...because when you're a debt collector to the wrongs of others after being forgiven a debt that you could never repay on your own, God has every right to reinstute the debt He forgave you of.

aegsm76
10-16-2018, 08:48 AM
jedi - great post.
I never thought about it that way.
Thanks.

jediwill83
10-16-2018, 09:05 AM
jedi - great post.
I never thought about it that way.
Thanks.


Thank you.



God is doing some things in my life and I am choosing to think differently...doing my best to think as He would have me think not according to traditions or culture whether it be church or political leanings.


Its been pretty trippy but in a good way...Ive had a lot of forgiving to do for legitimate pain...but freedom feels much better than self justification for my excuses as to why I should not obey Him.

navygoat1998
10-16-2018, 03:54 PM
They bring up the hierarchy of the UPCI not having any blacks in office and point to the PAW as having two previous Prelates who were white. That was in the 70s and 80s. Since then, every Prelate has been black and the current hierarchy of the PAW is solely black.

Let's not pretend the PAW is some perfect organization without any preference to race.

The comment section of the FB video is sad, so much hate and division.

Wasn't surprised to see an old AFFer in the comment section.

Hope this couple is happy with the result of their bitter video. Instead of being part of a solution which brings people together, they've opened up more bitterness and caused even more division.

I was going to take a look at the video, but for what. Not any church or movement is perfect. Each is made up of people who are imperfect at best.

Evang.Benincasa
10-16-2018, 04:27 PM
Thank you.



God is doing some things in my life and I am choosing to think differently...doing my best to think as He would have me think not according to traditions or culture whether it be church or political leanings.


Its been pretty trippy but in a good way...Ive had a lot of forgiving to do for legitimate pain...but freedom feels much better than self justification for my excuses as to why I should not obey Him.

:highfive

Evang.Benincasa
10-16-2018, 04:55 PM
I was going to take a look at the video, but for what. Not any church or movement is perfect. Each is made up of people who are imperfect at best.

You aren't missing anything you haven't heard any disgruntled person say before. It is all personal, you and I don't know the whole story. They could be the most angelic godly people on the planet, or the biggest devils that ever wore clothes. They made the video not to tell their story, but to find others with similar stories to wake them up to storm the ecclesiastical Bastille. While they ask for people not to leave the organization, but to stay to vote in change. They are actually offering no spiritual forgiveness to move on. Again, I don't know their story, this is what I gathered from their "video" But Charnock hit a home run on how people use Social Media to not only to their own hurt, but the hurt of others. People who are sitting in a church just a little confused on their direction could be hijacked by the words of this pastor and his wife. While they may have good intentions, those good intentions could pave the way to hell.

1ofthechosen
10-16-2018, 05:47 PM
They complained that the UPCI approach to the black community focuses on "poverty" and that's racist. Meanwhile, just below that article we have this:

Well-known social justice advocate and pastor of Greenleaf Christian Church in Goldsboro, North Carolina, William J. Barber II, has been announced as one of 25 people to receive a MacArthur "genius" fellowship that comes with an unrestricted $625,000 grant.
...
Barber is being recognized for "building broad-based fusion coalitions as part of a moral movement to confront racial and economic inequality."

The moral movement is the Poor People's Campaign which makes a national call for moral revival.


Good eye bro! Lol enough said!

1ofthechosen
10-16-2018, 06:08 PM
So they think even Gender should be removed from the manual? And women should be able to be at the district level? Well there shouldn't even be women Pastors, but if they did any of that, that would be super unbiblical. I can see why they made the video, they just started it off with the racism to get a response. But truthfully, that whole women should be able to hold office at the district level was the real reason they were shunned for 6 years, and rightly so. They might as well have unisex bathrooms also, if they did that!

Evang.Benincasa
10-16-2018, 07:15 PM
So they think even Gender should be removed from the manual? And women should be able to be at the district level? Well there shouldn't even be women Pastors, but if they did any of that, that would be super unbiblical. I can see why they made the video, they just started it off with the racism to get a response. But truthfully, that whole women should be able to hold office at the district level was the real reason they were shunned for 6 years, and rightly so. They might as well have unisex bathrooms also, if they did that!

There shouldn't be women pastors?

Just pastors? What about women General Superintendents? District Superintendents?

As far as ministry what can they do, and what can they not do?

houston
10-16-2018, 07:19 PM
Lions and tigers and bears, oy vey.

Scott Pitta
10-16-2018, 07:20 PM
There is no glass ceiling in Christianity. Only in the minds of insecure men. Women can serve in any ministry a man serves in.

houston
10-16-2018, 07:23 PM
There is no glass ceiling in Christianity. Only in the minds of insecure men. Women can serve in any ministry a man serves in.

Yes, the Apostle Paul agreed. :nah

Evang.Benincasa
10-16-2018, 07:25 PM
There is no glass ceiling in Christianity. Only in the minds of insecure men. Women can serve in any ministry a man serves in.

According to 1st and 2nd Pitta :heeheehee

Evang.Benincasa
10-16-2018, 07:27 PM
Yes, the Apostle Paul agreed. :nah

Paul said: "I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly."

Evang.Benincasa
10-16-2018, 07:30 PM
International Standard Version
Moreover, in the area of teaching, I am not allowing a woman to instigate conflict toward a man. Instead, she is to remain calm.

https://media.giphy.com/media/NGDGAZ35vuhxu/giphy.gif

1ofthechosen
10-16-2018, 07:30 PM
There shouldn't be women pastors?

Just pastors? What about women General Superintendents? District Superintendents?

As far as ministry what can they do, and what can they not do?

They can evangelize as we see in the book of Acts. Paul said in 1 Timothy 2:12 "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."
And General superintendents and district Super intendents fits with at least the second part of that verse.

I guarantee that this was what the UPCI didn't take them serious about, not the race card as they are using that just to get people's attention. It's a ploy to make more blood to bring in the vultures!

Evang.Benincasa
10-16-2018, 07:34 PM
They can evangelize as we see in the book of Acts. Paul said in 1 Timothy 2:12 "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."
And General superintendents and district Super intendents fits with at least the second part of that verse.

I guarantee that this was what the UPCI didn't take them serious about, not the race card as they are using that to get attention.

What do you mean by evangelizing? Do you mean sharing the Gospel? Like Sister Foofoofnick telling someone about Jesus name baptism, and sharing about the infilling of the Holy Ghost?

1ofthechosen
10-16-2018, 07:37 PM
What do you mean by evangelizing? Do you mean sharing the Gospel? Like Sister Foofoofnick telling someone about Jesus name baptism, and sharing about the infilling of the Holy Ghost?

Yes like Pricilla and the women Paul gave shout outs to in the Epistles. Sharing the gospel, not like how you do it. Well unless it was a woman conference or something then they can have at it. Then it wouldn't be out or order. There is no usurping of authority going on in that case!

houston
10-16-2018, 07:54 PM
Paul said: "I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly."

Ehsacly

Evang.Benincasa
10-16-2018, 09:41 PM
Yes like Pricilla and the women Paul gave shout outs to in the Epistles. Sharing the gospel, not like how you do it. Well unless it was a woman conference or something then they can have at it. Then it wouldn't be out or order. There is no usurping of authority going on in that case!

Priscilla wasn't a preacher. Also there isn't a woman's conference in the Bible, NT or OT. Prisca was with her husband. Furthermore it would of been unheard of for a female to be teaching, or evangelizing adult married men.