What is going on here?

[houston]

:foottap

https://www.facebook.com/685726851559358/posts/1449882265143809/

[n david]

BOSM...

[houston]

BOSM...

This is not a bondage forum. :foottap

[n david]

This is not a bondage forum. :foottap

Bunch Of Sinner Mess!

:lol

[houston]

Bunch Of Sinner Mess!

:lol

Oh. Lol

[Michael The Disciple]

Bunch Of Sinner Mess!

:lol

On what do you base this? What is the sin?

[Apostolic1ness]

This is not a bondage forum. :foottap

I dont get it. Whats the problem?

[Michael The Disciple]

The people in this Church would probably say you all have went Charismatic!

[n david]

On what do you base this? What is the sin?

It was hyberbole. But dude doing the running man on the pulpit is doing so in his flesh. That's not the spirit leading him to do that.

[Apostolic1ness]

It was hyberbole. But dude doing the running man on the pulpit is doing so in his flesh. That's not the spirit leading him to do that.

You dont do the running man? What about the funky chicken? Or just sit there and wait for God to to ask you to praise Him?

[derAlte]

Many years ago, the Oregon District UPCI Camp Meeting was held at a Methodist campground at Turner, outside of Salem. In front of the pulpit was a wooden communion table. One year, a man jumped up on it and started dancing. Lee Stoneking was the speaker. When he saw the man doing this, he smiled and said, "better to have wildfire than no fire at all!"

[Michael The Disciple]

It was hyberbole. But dude doing the running man on the pulpit is doing so in his flesh. That's not the spirit leading him to do that.

So were the people running being led by the Spirit to do so?

[Esaias]

It was hyberbole. But dude doing the running man on the pulpit is doing so in his flesh. That's not the spirit leading him to do that.

How do you know that?

[LOVE JESUS]

I would be careful and not say anything against people worshipping as these people are doing. We don't know the battles they have faced all week and need to express themselves in this manner. Most branches of Pentecostals have been doing this for years. He had to be in the Spirit or he would fallen off the pulpit.

[Esaias]

A prophet was once led by the Spirit to bake and eat a cow patty in the town square. So I'd be leery of claiming a guy dancing on a podium isn't being led by the same Spirit.

Also, why does an expression of joy or "rejoicing" have to be "led by the Spirit"? People aren't allowed to express how they feel on their own?

(insert football crowd analogy here)

[houston]

I would be careful and not say anything against people worshipping as these people are doing. We don't know the battles they have faced all week and need to express themselves in this manner. Most branches of Pentecostals have been doing this for years. He had to be in the Spirit or he would fallen off the pulpit.

I have NEVER seen anyone dance on a pulpit.

[n david]

Or just sit there and wait for God to to ask you to praise Him?
One can praise God, even dance, without doing so to draw attention to themselves.

[n david]

How do you know that?
Okay, I'll play. Sure, A spirit led him to do that. But it wasn't the Spirit of God.

[n david]

A prophet was once led by the Spirit to bake and eat a cow patty in the town square. So I'd be leery of claiming a guy dancing on a podium isn't being led by the same Spirit.
God isn't telling anyone to bake and eat a cow patty. So, sure, the same spirit (lower-case) which led the alleged prophet to eat a cow patty could have led the dude to do the running man on the pulpit.

Also, why does an expression of joy or "rejoicing" have to be "led by the Spirit"? People aren't allowed to express how they feel on their own?
It's not always "led by the Spirit" but the Spirit is present and involved.

[n david]

I would be careful and not say anything against people worshipping as these people are doing. We don't know the battles they have faced all week and need to express themselves in this manner. Most branches of Pentecostals have been doing this for years. He had to be in the Spirit or he would fallen off the pulpit.
Not really. That's a large pulpit.

And no, I don't know what battles he faced or why he felt the need to jump on the pulpit to worship, when he could have done so on the floor. Why the need for people to see what he's doing?

[n david]

If you want to jump on the pulpit and do the running man like the dude in the video, have at it.

If you want to do the macarena or the funky chicken, go on and do it. If you want to c walk across the altar, whatever.

[houston]

this place is so bipolar. many things that are considered worship is said to be caused by demons... somehow this gets a pass.

The brethren in X country (I don’t recall who posted it) highly condemned his behavior. Not really. That's a large pulpit.

And no, I don't know what battles he faced or why he felt the need to jump on the pulpit to worship, when he could have done so on the floor. Why the need for people to see what he's doing?

[houston]

If you want to jump on the pulpit and do the running man like the dude in the video, have at it.

If you want to do the macarena or the funky chicken, go on and do it. If you want to c walk across the altar, whatever.

And leave snarky remarks because there’s a smoke machine in the background of a preaching clip

[Esaias]

God isn't telling anyone to bake and eat a cow patty. So, sure, the same spirit (lower-case) which led the alleged prophet to eat a cow patty could have led the dude to do the running man on the pulpit.

Ezekiel was just an "alleged prophet"?

Well, this clarifies everything.

[Esaias]

Ezekiel 4:12-16

12 And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight. 13 And the LORD said, Even thus shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread among the Gentiles, whither I will drive them. 14 Then said I, Ah Lord GOD! behold, my soul hath not been polluted: for from my youth up even till now have I not eaten of that which dieth of itself, or is torn in pieces; neither came there abominable flesh into my mouth. 15 Then he said unto me, Lo, I have given thee cow's dung for man's dung, and thou shalt prepare thy bread therewith. 16 Moreover he said unto me, Son of man, behold, I will break the staff of bread in Jerusalem: and they shall eat bread by weight, and with care; and they shall drink water by measure, and with astonishment:

Too bad Ezekiel didn't have ndavid for his Gehazi, the "prophet" would have been spared a lot of trouble!

[Esaias]

this place is so bipolar. many things that are considered worship is said to be caused by demons... somehow this gets a pass.

The brethren in X country (I don’t recall who posted it) highly condemned his behavior.

It's not "this place". It's the generally widespread lack of discernment among people, worldwide. People are too superstitious, everything is caused by a spirit (God's if you like what's going on, the devil's if you don't), and everyone wants to pontificate and be the judge.

Instead of simply comparing what is presented to your consideration with Scripture. Because that's so out of date and takes too much time, you can't just mash the like button or a thumbs-down, like one of Pavlov's dogs.

("You" in general, not you personally.)

[Esaias]

Not really. That's a large pulpit.

And no, I don't know what battles he faced or why he felt the need to jump on the pulpit to worship, when he could have done so on the floor. Why the need for people to see what he's doing?

I guess you think worship and praise should be kept in the closet, not done where anyone can possibly see you, much less video taped and put out on the intardnets where AFF's very own Statler and Waldorf can chastise what isn't approved?

Correction, make that Siskel and Ebert. Statler and Waldorf were far more entertaining.

Good grief.

[Esaias]

Okay, I'll play. Sure, A spirit led him to do that. But it wasn't the Spirit of God.

It's funny how you never actually defend your claims when it comes to Scriptural or theological issues, you just repeat your claims as if that were all the proof anyone could possibly need.

[n david]

Ezekiel was just an "alleged prophet"?

Well, this clarifies everything.
I don't have the book of Ezekiel memorized. The only thing "clarified" is I missed the reference to Ezekiel.

Ezekiel 4:12-16

12 And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight. 13 And the LORD said, Even thus shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread among the Gentiles, whither I will drive them. 14 Then said I, Ah Lord GOD! behold, my soul hath not been polluted: for from my youth up even till now have I not eaten of that which dieth of itself, or is torn in pieces; neither came there abominable flesh into my mouth. 15 Then he said unto me, Lo, I have given thee cow's dung for man's dung, and thou shalt prepare thy bread therewith. 16 Moreover he said unto me, Son of man, behold, I will break the staff of bread in Jerusalem: and they shall eat bread by weight, and with care; and they shall drink water by measure, and with astonishment:

Too bad Ezekiel didn't have ndavid for his Gehazi, the "prophet" would have been spared a lot of trouble!

A prophet was once led by the Spirit to bake and eat a cow patty in the town square.

No, Ezekiel wasn't told to bake and eat a cow patty. He was told to cook BREAD using the dung as fuel.

If you're going to be snarky, at least get the story right.

[n david]

It's funny how you never actually defend your claims when it comes to Scriptural or theological issues, you just repeat your claims as if that were all the proof anyone could possibly need.
What's funny is that you mocked me for not remembering a reference to Ezekiel ... but in the process you didn't even get it right.

He was told to bake and eat bread, using the dung as fuel, not eat a cow patty.

A prophet was once led by the Spirit to bake and eat a cow patty in the town square.

[n david]

I guess you think worship and praise should be kept in the closet, not done where anyone can possibly see you,
Never said that. Don't believe that. Stop making junk up.

Good grief is right.

[Evang.Benincasa]

:foottap

https://www.facebook.com/685726851559358/posts/1449882265143809/

Well made pulpit?

[houston]

Well made pulpit?

I’m trying to be serious. :lol

[Esaias]

I don't have the book of Ezekiel memorized. The only thing "clarified" is I missed the reference to Ezekiel.





No, Ezekiel wasn't told to bake and eat a cow patty. He was told to cook BREAD using the dung as fuel.

If you're going to be snarky, at least get the story right.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes,.... That is, the bread made of wheat, barley, beans, lentiles, millet, and fitches, was to be made in the form of barley cakes, and to be baked as they; not in an oven, but under ashes; and these ashes not of wood, or straw, or turf, but as follows:
and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of men, in their sight: the prophet was to take human dung, and dry it, and then cover the cakes or loaves of his mixed bread with it, and burn it over them, and with it bake it; which must be a very disagreeable task to him, and make the food very nauseous, both to himself and to the Jews, in whose sight it was done;

[Esaias]

Never said that. Don't believe that. Stop making junk up.

Good grief is right.

You failed to see the question mark at the end of the question? Or the starting words "I guess..."?

Apparently, Reading Isn't Fun for you?

(Hey, look, another interrogative!)

[Aquila]

If it floats their boat, why criticize?

Maybe this kind of worship isn't for some people. But maybe it's just what others enjoy.

I say, let them be.

[n david]

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes,.... That is, the bread made of wheat, barley, beans, lentiles, millet, and fitches, was to be made in the form of barley cakes, and to be baked as they; not in an oven, but under ashes; and these ashes not of wood, or straw, or turf, but as follows:
and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of men, in their sight: the prophet was to take human dung, and dry it, and then cover the cakes or loaves of his mixed bread with it, and burn it over them, and with it bake it; which must be a very disagreeable task to him, and make the food very nauseous, both to himself and to the Jews, in whose sight it was done;

Yes, use it as fuel. You said bake it and eat it, which is not what even this commentary says. It was bread which was being baked...not the dung.

[Tithesmeister]

Yes, use it as fuel. You said bake it and eat it, which is not what even this commentary says. It was bread which was being baked...not the dung.

:thumbsup

[Esaias]

Yes, use it as fuel. You said bake it and eat it, which is not what even this commentary says. It was bread which was being baked...not the dung.

You're right. I concede, it is absolutely ridiculous to think that God, who led a prophet to cover some dough with excrement and bake it and eat it in front of everybody, would lead a person to jump up on a podium and dance where people could see him. Because THAT'S just too much.

:thumbsup

[houston]

All of you chill. Thanks.

[Evang.Benincasa]

I'm chillaxing. :thumbsup

[Michael The Disciple]

I have been in Churches where people "ran the pews". I figured this kind of thing (dancing on the pulpit) was favored among Churches that worship this way.

[houston]

I'm chillaxing. :thumbsup



http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6369&stc=1&d=1539482561

[houston]

I have been in Churches where people "ran the pews". I figured this kind of thing (dancing on the pulpit) was favored among Churches that worship this way.

Oh, please.

[Esaias]

All of you chill. Thanks.

I'm hot. And when I'm not, I'm coooooold as ice.

:)

[Michael The Disciple]

Oh, please.

What does that mean? You can see that people right here find nothing abnormal about this kind of worship. This was at least at one time considered an anointed meeting among Pentecostals.

[houston]

There was a video posted of a woman... “dancing.”, maybe. It was implied by some here that she has demons.

I don’t know how some determine what is acceptable and not:What does that mean? You can see that people right here find nothing abnormal about this kind of worship. This was at least at one time considered an anointed meeting among Pentecostals.

[Evang.Benincasa]

http://ap.imagensbrasil.org/images/pastor-pilao-o.gif

http://rs29.pbsrc.com/albums/c275/electricnomad/Animated%20GIF%20part%20II/DanceFu.gif~c200

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2a/94/e9/2a94e9ac9b449350bcbdebfeeeffdcd7.gif

https://i.skyrock.net/7005/93767005/pics/3270624022_1_2_JBkfAyYL.gif

[Evang.Benincasa]

There was a video posted of a woman... “dancing.”, maybe. It was implied by some here that she has demons.

I don’t know how some determine what is acceptable and not:

If we are having a good service and people are shouting, I don't judge what they are doing. If it is as dead as fired chicken and some one is doing the boot scootin boogie then I may have to ask a question.

[Evang.Benincasa]

https://media.giphy.com/media/5usGT9i6lnJio/giphy.gif

[houston]

If we are having a good service and people are shouting, I don't judge what they are doing. If it is as dead as fired chicken and some one is doing the boot scootin boogie then I may have to ask a question.

Maybe he’s the only one having a good service.

[Esaias]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNN7GJd96go

[Esaias]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfoMXDoNmY4

[mendybug]

I am pretty sure the Lord tells us not to judge with our eyes or by the hearing of our ears. After all, I am still in flesh, I might just make a mistake. Once after the Lord delivered me from drugs, I made my drug room into my prayer room. I would skip for the Lord, I was free. Sitting in a ladies conference the Lord said, "so you can't here"? Immediately I knew what He meant. I said, "Lord I will skip for you, now"? He said, "not now". I kept asking and then I knew it was time, I left my seat and I skipped back and forth from one side to the other, and then.... I was in heaven. I was in complete rapture, and I couldn't even stand, I still had my hands raised and wept. I vividly remember saying in my mind, Lord, I never want this to end. He said, "I can as long as you can". What He was saying was as long as my arms were raised, I would have this experience. You never know what the Lord has spoke to someone. Flesh is flesh and I have had to bust a move just to let my flesh know, you will submit. For what it's worth, until we are changed, we are all in the flesh.

[Esaias]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1igOsQJ3t8

[houston]

I would prefer that kind of a show

[Evang.Benincasa]

Maybe he’s the only one having a good service.

That could well be the case. But I would first ask if the guy climbed up there or jumped. If it was the latter, then thumbs up. If he struggled, huffed and puffed his way up there? Then I wouldn't salute it. But, that's just me.

[n david]

There was a video posted of a woman... “dancing.”, maybe. It was implied by some here that she has demons.

I don’t know how some determine what is acceptable and not:

There was critique given of a certain minister who jumped up on the pulpit during a sermon.

Apparently he should have done the running man.

I gave my opinion. No one has to like it.

This isn't the norm. In all the churches I've visited...all the camp meetings and conferences and revival services, with exception of the minister jumping on the pulpit during the message, I have never been in a service in which someone jumps on the pulpit to dance. It's ridiculous.

Again, you don't have to like my opinion.

[houston]

There was critique given of a certain minister who jumped up on the pulpit during a sermon.

Apparently he should have done the running man.

I gave my opinion. No one has to like it.

This isn't the norm. In all the churches I've visited...all the camp meetings and conferences and revival services, with exception of the minister jumping on the pulpit during the message, I have never been in a service in which someone jumps on the pulpit to dance. It's ridiculous.

Again, you don't have to like my opinion.

I remember that critique. What’s changed?

[1ofthechosen]

There was critique given of a certain minister who jumped up on the pulpit during a sermon.

Apparently he should have done the running man.

I gave my opinion. No one has to like it.

This isn't the norm. In all the churches I've visited...all the camp meetings and conferences and revival services, with exception of the minister jumping on the pulpit during the message, I have never been in a service in which someone jumps on the pulpit to dance. It's ridiculous.

Again, you don't have to like my opinion.

I'm just stumbling upon this. I remember the other critique of the other minister also. So my question to you bro was that all flesh when he did it, or just this guy in this video?

I will say at my church they would probably throw some one out face first for disrespecting the sacred desk. Not that the desk in itself is sacred but what it represents is.

Although I will say I do believe that was all flesh. As anything goes I believe it begins in the flesh, you take that first step, and then God meets you and carries you the rest of the way. Although I heard no sound of a move of God, and all of it looked like flesh and contiued through the video to look like flesh. I thought they were going to bringout the snakes with the guitar riff going on! Lol

[Michael The Disciple]

So is there a consensus among todays Pentecostals that their style of praise needs to be re examined?

[brotherjason]

It's an interesting video but for all the judgment going on it was kind of short IMO. There's no telling the context of the service and what led to the man dancing on the pulpit.

[Evang.Benincasa]

So is there a consensus among todays Pentecostals that their style of praise needs to be re examined?

Yeah 5 posters on one forum makes a consensus for today's Pentecostals.

Good luck with that.

[n david]

So is there a consensus among todays Pentecostals that their style of praise needs to be re examined?
Who said Pentecostal style of praise needs to be reexamined? Please quote the post, because I don't believe anyone has posted such a thing. I certainly don't believe it.

I disagree with the dude doing the running man on the pulpit. I also disagree with praise dancers and choreographed dance in the church. I disagree with dudes jumping on the pulpit while they're preaching.

That doesn't mean I'm against people running the aisles or dancing in the aisle, etc. And I certainly don't believe Pentecostal praise needs to be reexamined.

Just have a bit of common sense. Don't be a showboat.

[Michael The Disciple]

Who said Pentecostal style of praise needs to be reexamined? Please quote the post, because I don't believe anyone has posted such a thing. I certainly don't believe it.

I disagree with the dude doing the running man on the pulpit. I also disagree with praise dancers and choreographed dance in the church. I disagree with dudes jumping on the pulpit while they're preaching.

That doesn't mean I'm against people running the aisles or dancing in the aisle, etc. And I certainly don't believe Pentecostal praise needs to be reexamined.

Just have a bit of common sense. Don't be a showboat.

:highfive

[Apostolic1ness]

And leave snarky remarks because there’s a smoke machine in the background of a preaching clip

Some of you guys will never get it. Just sit there and patty cake for Jesus while the rest of us will give a sacrifice of praise. Its not going to be a good ending for the lukewarm. Why not praise God with all you have? Isn't God worthy?

[n david]

Some of you guys will never get it. Just sit there and patty cake for Jesus while the rest of us will give a sacrifice of praise. Its not going to be a good ending for the lukewarm. Why not praise God with all you have? Isn't God worthy?
Literally no one has posted in this thread that people shouldn't praise God. Just don't be a showboat, dancing on the pulpit.

Run the aisle if you wish. Dance, jump, jerk, spin around if you desire. No need to jump on the pulpit and draw attention to yourself.

Isn't God worthy?
Of course He is. That's a stupid question.

[Apostolic1ness]

Literally no one has posted in this thread that people shouldn't praise God. Just don't be a showboat, dancing on the pulpit.

Run the aisle if you wish. Dance, jump, jerk, spin around if you desire. No need to jump on the pulpit and draw attention to yourself.


Of course He is. That's a stupid question.

Are you an adult? Was David a showboat? He danced in front of all Israel half naked. Would you tell David he is just showboating? Maybe you and David's wife share a common spirit.

[n david]

Are you an adult?
Another dumb question.

Was David a showboat? He danced in front of all Israel half naked. Would you tell David he is just showboating?
No, David did not dance "in front of all Israel half naked." He was wearing a linen ephod, not his royal garments. He was not naked nor was he "half naked."

Since you bring David up, no, he wasn't showboating. In fact, quite the opposite. By stripping himself of his royal garments and putting on the linen ephod, he humbled himself -- which is why Micah was so upset.

Maybe you and David's wife share a common spirit.
So because I don't agree with a dude jumping on a pulpit, I'm contemptuous of all worship? Get out of here with that junk, man.

I have jumped. I have run the aisle. I have danced and spun around. I don't despise praise.

Personally, I don't like choreographed praise dancers. I don't agree with the churches which allow women to twerk and dance in front of the church for a show. I don't agree with preachers jumping on pulpits or running the tops of pews during their messages.

That doesn't mean I'm contemptuous of all praise. It certainly doesn't mean I "share a common spirit" with Micah.

[n david]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4SDH86LbHo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R5eEYi8n2U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lR_CDhDsYc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIMtj5fBHQg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flP4qCKcgo0

BOSM - BUNCH OF SINNER MESS.

Call me judgmental. Say I "share a common spirit" with Micah. I don't care.

[n david]

Pole dancing for Jesus -- DON'T JUDGE! They're doing it for Jesus. If you don't like it, you share a common spirit with Micah! :heeheehee

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7tmlaYkspM

[houston]

1. Hard to hip hop for Jesus. They did their best to not be provocative.

2. I don’t like it. They were probably trying to appear to be floating.

3. The boy in the dish gloves really ruined that song for me.

4. The hookers aroused the boy on the front pew. I’m glad he didn’t stand to clap.

5. That’s the most movement that church has seen, ever.

[houston]

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6370&stc=1&d=1539630431

[1ofthechosen]

Apostolic 1ness is this decent and in order?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwGGte4JmDc

[houston]

I recall you throwing your coat at your pastors face.

[Michael The Disciple]

Apostolic 1ness is this decent and in order?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwGGte4JmDc

If the power of God is being displayed in this, what about the gifts of the Spirit? If the power were falling why would gifts not be manifest?

[Apostolic1ness]

Apostolic 1ness is this decent and in order?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwGGte4JmDc

well I see your point. my eyes have been enlightened. lol the guy fell in the baptistery.

[derAlte]

Good thing there was water in the baptistry to cushion his fall. That could have hurt!

[Esaias]

Apostolic 1ness is this decent and in order?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwGGte4JmDc

Define "decent and in order".

[Tithesmeister]

Define "decent and in order".

It seems that sometimes it is defined, not by they that are in the church, but by they that are not believers.

1CORINTHIANS 14

[23] If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

Now allow me to reference the title of the video that portrays the baptismal diver;

“Crazy White Church People “

Hmmm . . .

Could this be what Paul was referring to?

[1ofthechosen]

Define "decent and in order".

It's self defined. If you have to ask yourself "is it ok if I do this will they throw me out of here for this?" (Oh and btw I'm talking about a Apostolic church here!) You should probably refrain. Because as I said earlier the Lord didn't make him do this, He chose to do this in so called worship to God. I am speaking about the diver, but the guy throwing the coat at the Pastor was out of line too. He's lucky those guys in that church don't have any reverence for their Pastor because he would at least been taken aside by someone in my church, and rebuked. If not worse...

[Esaias]

It's self defined. If you have to ask yourself "is it ok if I do this will they throw me out of here for this?"

So decent and in order is determined by what's acceptable to the particular assembly, then? I don't think that's correct, because apparently what was acceptable to the church in Corinth was not decent and in order according to the apostle?

[1ofthechosen]

So decent and in order is determined by what's acceptable to the particular assembly, then? I don't think that's correct, because apparently what was acceptable to the church in Corinth was not decent and in order according to the apostle?

So if I had a pistol on me and lets just say I felt the Spirit real strong is it ok to bust 2 shots in the air? As long as it's in the name of Jesus?

Your ok with people doing the running man on the pulpit and a cannonball into the baptistry, so the 2 shots in the air has to be ok. I mean im worshipping the Lord in doing so...

[Esaias]

So if I had a pistol on me and lets just say I felt the Spirit real strong is it ok to bust 2 shots in the air? As long as it's in the name of Jesus?

Your ok with people doing the running man on the pulpit and a cannonball into the baptistry, so the 2 shots in the air has to be ok. I mean im worshipping the Lord in doing so...

You must not be a native Texan.

[Apostolic1ness]

It's self defined. If you have to ask yourself "is it ok if I do this will they throw me out of here for this?" (Oh and btw I'm talking about a Apostolic church here!) You should probably refrain. Because as I said earlier the Lord didn't make him do this, He chose to do this in so called worship to God. I am speaking about the diver, but the guy throwing the coat at the Pastor was out of line too. He's lucky those guys in that church don't have any reverence for their Pastor because he would at least been taken aside by someone in my church, and rebuked. If not worse...

so whats the 'if not worse" part? that seems terribly out of order, dont you think. Does the Lord make any one do anything? Does he make you leap or clap your hands? The point is giving to God not being forced to give worship. If you have to be "moved on by the Holy Ghost" or God tell you to worship or praise then there is not a relationship there.

[Michael The Disciple]

so whats the 'if not worse" part? that seems terribly out of order, dont you think. Does the Lord make any one do anything? Does he make you leap or clap your hands? The point is giving to God not being forced to give worship. If you have to be "moved on by the Holy Ghost" or God tell you to worship or praise then there is not a relationship there.

Very good:highfive

Altho I would say there are times...not always but times when the Spirit may completely take control of someone to do certain things.

[1ofthechosen]

so whats the 'if not worse" part? that seems terribly out of order, dont you think. Does the Lord make any one do anything? Does he make you leap or clap your hands? The point is giving to God not being forced to give worship. If you have to be at"moved on by the Holy Ghost" or God tell you to worship or praise then there is not a relationship there.


You missed the point. This isn't about giving worship or praise I am all for demonstrative worship, and God doesn't tell me to do it, I do it. But what I'm talking about is making a decision to do a high jump through the baptistry window and into the Baptismal tank. Or to climb on top of a sacred desk and do the Michael Jackson running man like Pewee Herman, or throw a jacket in the Pastors face.

Ok since decent and in order was challenged these things are unacceptable. Because for one they were all flesh. And my Bible says " So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God." And the same book told me that "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." So you see we've showed many different examples of what people claim as Worship and praise, but does God see them that way is all that matters. I know He hates the "hey look at me I wanna be noticed" and is against it. Regardless of whatever that person claims to be praise and worship, if He doesn't accept it, you are just looking like a donkey in a church house...

I do agree with what your saying in the quote wholeheartedly. I just don't believe that's applicable to any of these situations though is what I'm saying.

[aegsm76]

One of the greatest Apostolic ministers alive today stopped his church from running the aisles on Sunday morning, for a time.
He believed that God spoke to him and told him that it was hindering their visitors from converting.
He did tell the church that they could save it and "party" on Sunday night!

[votivesoul]

I don't believe the issue is the fellow doing the running man. The issue is with any church leadership present having or not having discernment and the ability to address something if anything gets out of hand. Maybe he and they had a nice conversation afterward and it's all sorted out?

The guy in the video for all we know just got delivered from a drug addiction or God saved his life and he was, as a two-day old babe in Christ, didn't have any understanding of what is and is not appropriate. While we jump on it from our more "seasoned" position, maybe if someone had videos of all the dumb stuff we ever did that was out of order, especially as new converts, we'd wish no one would post it on a forum to talk about it?

[houston]

I didn’t do dumb stuff as a newcomer

[Apostolic1ness]

You missed the point. This isn't about giving worship or praise I am all for demonstrative worship, and God doesn't tell me to do it, I do it. But what I'm talking about is making a decision to do a high jump through the baptistry window and into the Baptismal tank. Or to climb on top of a sacred desk and do the Michael Jackson running man like Pewee Herman, or throw a jacket in the Pastors face.

Ok since decent and in order was challenged these things are unacceptable. Because for one they were all flesh. And my Bible says " So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God." And the same book told me that "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." So you see we've showed many different examples of what people claim as Worship and praise, but does God see them that way is all that matters. I know He hates the "hey look at me I wanna be noticed" and is against it. Regardless of whatever that person claims to be praise and worship, if He doesn't accept it, you are just looking like a donkey in a church house...

I do agree with what your saying in the quote wholeheartedly. I just don't believe that's applicable to any of these situations though is what I'm saying.
I agree with the post. the baptistery swimmer is hilarious and the whole jacket in the face is crazy. however I think we should take a little caution when judging from the outside. The night I received the Holy Ghost I was set free and like bird out of a cage I flapped my wings all over the church, platform included it was the most joyous thing that ever happened to me. If someone would have said I was in the flesh showing out would have been terribly mistaken and would have been a good way to discourage a new convert.

[1ofthechosen]

I agree with the post. the baptistery swimmer is hilarious and the whole jacket in the face is crazy. however I think we should take a little caution when judging from the outside. The night I received the Holy Ghost I was set free and like bird out of a cage I flapped my wings all over the church, platform included it was the most joyous thing that ever happened to me. If someone would have said I was in the flesh showing out would have been terribly mistaken and would have been a good way to discourage a new convert.


I agree and this is a good reason all of this discussed here is a good reason, video recording in the church is a bad idea.

[Evang.Benincasa]

I agree and this is a good reason all of this discussed here is a good reason, video recording in the church is a bad idea.

:thumbsup

[Michael The Disciple]

I agree and this is a good reason all of this discussed here is a good reason, video recording in the church is a bad idea.

Really? Why so the fleshly and sometimes foolish ways that Pentecostal Churches "worship" wont be exposed?

[aegsm76]

Really? Why so the fleshly and sometimes foolish ways that Pentecostal Churches "worship" wont be exposed?

Let not your good be evil spoken of...

[houston]

Really? Why so the fleshly and sometimes foolish ways that Pentecostal Churches "worship" wont be exposed?

But you love IHOP. ROFLOL

[1ofthechosen]

Really? Why so the fleshly and sometimes foolish ways that Pentecostal Churches "worship" wont be exposed?

Mike you truthfully hate Apostolic's. And follow Charismatic groups that are the laughing stock of Religion and the reasons why people don't trust the gifts of the Spirit at all, because these charismatic groups abuse. For you to agree with that, and be skeptical of the Oneness movement as a whole is strange to me to say the least.

[Michael The Disciple]

Mike you truthfully hate Apostolic's. And follow Charismatic groups that are the laughing stock of Religion and the reasons why people don't trust the gifts of the Spirit at all, because these charismatic groups abuse. For you to agree with that, and be skeptical of the Oneness movement as a whole is strange to me to say the least.

I hate Apostolics? Ever heard "thou shall not bear false witness"? Why would I hate a movement I am part of and have suffered more for than many? What IS the Apostolic movement anyway?

Is it a movement that teaches the Oneness message? That baptizes in Jesus name? Preaches sinners must repent and be baptized and receive the Holy Ghost?

If thats it Im a part. But I am even more interested in going all the way with God and his word. Lets not stop where we currently are. Lets MOVE on to more Jesus!

Do I follow Charismatic groups? No I only follow Jesus Christ. I left the Charismatic movement in the 70's. Actually they forced me out because I was preaching Acts 2:38 salvation. That does not mean I feel there were not Spirit filled people among them. There may be millions of "Charismatics" with the Holy Spirit.

Doctrine wise most are still captive to doctrines of their particular denomination. The Apostolic movement has more truth generally speaking than they have. I never back down from my allegiance to Oneness Pentecostal doctrine.

When it comes to making people doubt the gifts Pentecostals are as guilty as Charismatics. Thankfully I experienced the gifts before I ever came into either one of these movements. I had no reason to doubt supernatual experiences I had with the Lord because they were real. Their validity had nothing to do with what some movement was doing.

Remember it is some among yourselves that started this thread. And why? Because some of these fleshly manifestations hurt Oneness people and truth.

[Michael The Disciple]

But you love IHOP. ROFLOL

Whats wrong with loving IHOP? We are told by Jesus even to love our enemies. What is it I love about IHOP?

They teach the post trib rapture and have a good Biblical end time vision. They have (to me) far more spiritual praise and worship music than old style Pentecostals.

They teach young people to pray and seek God. To love God. To tell others about Christ. I like that.

If one group teaches truth about a certain issue and another teaches error I will stand (on that particular issue) with the one that has truth.

So there are things about IHOP I love. There are things about IHOP I hate.

I dont hate their people at all but rather love them as I do everyone else.

[Esaias]

How is a guy standing on a pulpit and dancing during what appears to be an old fashioned Pentecostal "shout" a case of "fleshly manifestations"? Pentecostals, and Holiness people before them, and Methodists before them, and others before them, have always been accused of being "disorderly" and "fanatical". We've been called holy rollers, jumpers, the tongues movement, and DEVIL POSSESSED even, all by various "dignified" folks who love Jesus so much they can't even raise one hand in worship or God forbid clap two hands in praise to God.

Dancing in worship has nothing to do with the charismata, there is no "gift of praise breaking". It's as old as the old testament, it's how God's people have always worshipped, down through the millennia.

People see Pentecostal worship and don't like it? So what? They have their bread of affliction and we have heavenly manna. Let them gnash teeth, they will weep later on. First Pentecostal meeting I ever went to would make most modern "pentecostal types" die of a stroke, it seems. In fact, a friend who came with me literally RAN FROM THE BUILDING IN TERROR. Refused to ever go back. Why? "There's something in that meeting and it's waaaaaay too heavy for me to deal with." But *I* knew what it was, because I had "got it" a few days earlier and I felt right at home.

And yes, I've been in charismaniac meetings, too, The River™ and New Wine™, Toronto style meetings. 180 degree difference. Barking, convulsions, "glued to the floor", and other supposed "manifestations" straight out of Caribbean voudun.

I don't worry too much about somebody getting happy in worship. At least they're worshipping and not dozing off because their Christianity is as exciting as an all-day Greyhound bus ride across Utah.

:heeheehee

[Esaias]

They have (to me) far more spiritual praise and worship music than old style Pentecostals.

:spit

[derAlte]

Whats wrong with loving IHOP? We are told by Jesus even to love our enemies. What is it I love about IHOP?

They teach the post trib rapture and have a good Biblical end time vision. They have (to me) far more spiritual praise and worship music than old style Pentecostals.

They teach young people to pray and seek God. To love God. To tell others about Christ. I like that.

If one group teaches truth about a certain issue and another teaches error I will stand (on that particular issue) with the one that has truth.

So there are things about IHOP I love. There are things about IHOP I hate.

I dont hate their people at all but rather love them as I do everyone else.

Sorry to be dumb here, but what is IHOP? I'm guessing you're not discussing the International House of Pancakes.

[Michael The Disciple]

Sorry to be dumb here, but what is IHOP? I'm guessing you're not discussing the International House of Pancakes.

International House Of Prayer Kansas City

A Charismatic Church which I watch on live stream sometimes. I enjoy the good praise and worship there.

ihopkc.org

[1ofthechosen]

I hate Apostolics? Ever heard "thou shall not bear false witness"? Why would I hate a movement I am part of and have suffered more for than many? What IS the Apostolic movement anyway?

Is it a movement that teaches the Oneness message? That baptizes in Jesus name? Preaches sinners must repent and be baptized and receive the Holy Ghost?

If thats it Im a part. But I am even more interested in going all the way with God and his word. Lets not stop where we currently are. Lets MOVE on to more Jesus!

Do I follow Charismatic groups? No I only follow Jesus Christ. I left the Charismatic movement in the 70's. Actually they forced me out because I was preaching Acts 2:38 salvation. That does not mean I feel there were not Spirit filled people among them. There may be millions of "Charismatics" with the Holy Spirit.

Doctrine wise most are still captive to doctrines of their particular denomination. The Apostolic movement has more truth generally speaking than they have. I never back down from my allegiance to Oneness Pentecostal doctrine.

When it comes to making people doubt the gifts Pentecostals are as guilty as Charismatics. Thankfully I experienced the gifts before I ever came into either one of these movements. I had no reason to doubt supernatual experiences I had with the Lord because they were real. Their validity had nothing to do with what some movement was doing.

Remember it is some among yourselves that started this thread. And why? Because some of these fleshly manifestations hurt Oneness people and truth.

I don't believe this waa a Oneness church this thread began with. More likely a charismatic or non denominational church.

[1ofthechosen]

International House Of Prayer Kansas City

A Charismatic Church which I watch on live stream sometimes. I enjoy the good praise and worship there.

ihopkc.org

Mike that's following a Charismatic group. That's what I'm talking bout they are NAR, the laughing stock of Religion and all Pentecostals. That's the latter rain movement 2000 edition.

[Michael The Disciple]

Mike that's following a Charismatic group. That's what I'm talking bout they are NAR, the laughing stock of Religion and all Pentecostals. That's the latter rain movement 2000 edition.

Ok if enjoying their praise and worship and the post trib doctrine and the teaching of day and night prayer means I am following a Charismatic Church.....to you....fine:highfive

And if I support and teach Oneness doctrine and baptism in Jesus name and full salvation by Acts 2:38 am I following an Apostolic Church?

[houston]

Ok if enjoying their praise and worship and the post trib doctrine and the teaching of day and night prayer means I am following a Charismatic Church.....to you....fine:highfive

You approve of NAR!?

[Michael The Disciple]

You approve of NAR!?

Is IHOP called NAR?

Do YOU approve of "Apostolic" Churches that teach Christmas and Easter? How about that Jesus came and resurrected the dead saints and raptured the living to Heaven in 70ad?

[1ofthechosen]

Is IHOP called NAR?

That's what their part of the new Apostolic Reformation the third wave. That is the modern latter rain movement, do you know what that is? Started by C Peter Wagner they acknowledge William Branham as a prophet and even back some of his teachings. Just google search NAR New Apostolic Reformation and look at the names of the people involved. If you can still back anything they are teaching you need prayer at the very least.

[houston]

That's what their part of the new Apostolic Reformation the third wave. That is the modern latter rain movement, do you know what that is? Started by C Peter Wagner they acknowledge William Branham as a prophet and even back some of his teachings. Just google search NAR New Apostolic Reformation and look at the names of the people involved. If you can still back anything they are teaching you need prayer at the very least.

It all ties in with Toronto... Pensacola... BETHEL in Redding. I’m lately doubting Azusa.

It’s the fruit of the tongue talkin trojan horse..,

[houston]

Is IHOP called NAR?

Do YOU approve of "Apostolic" Churches that teach Christmas and Easter? How about that Jesus came and resurrected the dead saints and raptured the living to Heaven in 70ad?

I approve of the churches, not their teaching.

No one believed the living were raptured in 70ad.

[Esaias]

International House Of Prayer Kansas City

A Charismatic Church which I watch on live stream sometimes. I enjoy the good praise and worship there.

ihopkc.org

During my time on one of the worship teams I gained insight into a behind the scenes look at how some of the manipulation works. First, worship team leaders are taught a very specific way to lead worship. They are instructed to follow a mantra, which is chosen ahead of time by the leaders. There are levels of mantras and we were instructed that if those in the prayer room appear disconnected, to up the mantra to the next level. There is a basic set of chords to be played repetitively for a pre-set amount of time, usually a minimum of ten minutes is required before altering the chord combination. This is all done to induce relaxation and assist those in the prayer room to reach deeper levels of meditative spirituality.

...

At one point during my assignment in the Forerunner School of Ministry, I was chosen with three others to meet with the Director of FSM, Mike Bickle (also the founder of the IHOP movement). I had heard many things about him prior to our meeting. We were taken to his office and he lifted his hands and prayed over us, as new leaders of worship, “chosen for the harp and bowl” he said, “selected to guide the prayers of the saints and usher in the second coming of our Lord.” He spoke prophetic words over each of us, words he claimed to be given to him directly from God. The words he spoke over me were directly (almost verbatim) from my journal entry that had been turned into my group leader the day before. He slid open a panel in his office wall and had each of us look through it into the prayer room and he told us he would be watching us “guide the flock” in prayer and worship. The meeting had more of an “I’m watching you” threatening undertone than it did a positive vibe. He then instructed us in meditation, specifically what was to be said and in what order; and made us write down his instructions. I have included these instructions in my report:



1. Speak slowly



2. Speak softly



3. Speak briefly (short phrases or even just one word)



4. Speak minimally (listen more than you speak)



5. Pause a lot (linger in waiting mode, emptying your spirit)



6. Pray with your spirit (focus your mind and direction to the Holy Spirit)



7. Release gentle sighs and moans (focus on the Holy Spirit, talk to Him)



8. Gaze into silence (feel the divine magnet pull you and let it take you)



Then we were instructed to chant the following things aloud, waiting five or ten minutes before moving to the next one. He called this the “TRUST” method. We were to chant these five things using the above instructions:



1. Thank you Holy Spirit.



2. Release Revelation.



3. Use Me (add in every three or four phrases: use me to prophesize and become a vessel of the manifestations of the spirit.)



4. Strengthen Me (add in every three of four phrases: it takes the power of God to feel God)



5. Teach me



Never once was Jesus or Christ of God mentioned in this equation, but rather the focus was on praying to the Holy Spirit and seeking prophetic revelation, visions and signs and wonders. I noted while taking notes how many times Mr. Bickle instructed us to “pray to the Holy Spirit” and it was 36 times in our meeting which lasted under an hour.

https://stopihopcult.wordpress.com/tag/misty-edwards/

[Esaias]

From the same link:

I was part of the investigative team that went into the IHOP-KC and I’d like to share something that I witnessed during my time there.



First of all, the application itself was extensive and asked many questions of a very personal nature. This information was later shared with my team leader who tried to use it against me. Keep in mind, all of the information on my application was false, as I basically created my persona to go in undercover. One of the examples is that I wrote down that my parents were divorced. (My real parents are not divorced and are actually happily married, a marriage lasting 28 years and counting.) I told no one else that my parents were divorced and the only place it was written was on my application. So, when my team leader told me that “God had given her a prophetic word for me” and that it was about the “deep sadness I was holding in my heart from my parent’s divorce,” I knew she had seen my application AND was using information on it to try and make me believe God was speaking to her and through her. It was an outright lie.



This was not the last time something from my false application was used to try and suck me into believing God was speaking to one of the leaders. In the prayer room there were two occasions when one of the members spoke a word over me about things that were not true of the real me, but were based on the information in my fake application. One was about drug use, of which I’ve never used drugs. (I smoked pot in college once but I didn’t like it.) The other was about my sexual preferences, in which I was told that Satan was trying to lead me down a path of homosexual destruction and that God had brought me here to repent and one man even went as far as to wave his arms in the air above my head and proclaim to be releasing homosexual spirits from me. Keep in mind, I’m not a homosexual nor have I ever had a homosexual encounter or even a desire to cross to the other side. EVERYTHING the supposedly received from God came right off the pages of my fake application. This is a manipulation of information and a ploy of mental deception to try and pull people into the experience of God, which at IHOP-KC, isn’t of or about God at all.



All students were forced to journal daily and give their journals to their team leaders. We were required to confess everything and when journals were turned in that did not contain the secrets of the soul, that person was publically chastised, forced to fast for a period of time, given longer assignments in the prayer room and longer journaling time alone. They were also followed by other members to make sure they didn’t speak to anyone about IHOP in a negative manner. One day I wrote in my journal that I had suicidal thoughts. (Again, this couldn’t be further from the truth, but I wanted to see what they would do about it.) That night in the prayer room one of the worship leaders called my name and told me that God sees me and knows that I’ve been wanting to take my life and that He was telling me to go deeper in Him. This wasn’t a message from God, it was a lie based on something I wrote in my journal.



Everything at IHOP-KC is a manipulation. It’s like a big magic show only the magicians are being fed information from journals and applications and using it to trick people into thinking God knows their hearts and is speaking to them.



Their other magic act is calling up demons and threatening anyone who questions them.

[houston]

Their other magic act is calling up demons and threatening anyone who questions them.

They’re more spiritual than Apostolics :lol

[Michael The Disciple]

Before we forget what this thread is about:

https://www.facebook.com/685726851559358/posts/1449882265143809/

Not about IHOP.

[Michael The Disciple]

It all ties in with Toronto... Pensacola... BETHEL in Redding. I’m lately doubting Azusa.

It’s the fruit of the tongue talkin trojan horse..,

Doubting Azusa Street? Where does that leave the UPCI?

UPCI.ORG

The UPCI emerged out of the Pentecostal movement that began with a Bible school in Topeka, Kansas, in 1901 and with the Azusa Street Revival in Los Angeles, California, in 1906.

[Esaias]

Before we forget what this thread is about:

https://www.facebook.com/685726851559358/posts/1449882265143809/

Not about IHOP.

The thread is about proper and spiritual worship.

[Esaias]

Doubting Azusa Street? Where does that leave the UPCI?

UPCI.ORG

The UPCI emerged out of the Pentecostal movement that began with a Bible school in Topeka, Kansas, in 1901 and with the Azusa Street Revival in Los Angeles, California, in 1906.

Azusa has been waaaay overblown in the telling, by people with various agendas. I got what I got from God, not some group of men trying to maintain some organizational structure and "authorized succession".

[1ofthechosen]

It all ties in with Toronto... Pensacola... BETHEL in Redding. I’m lately doubting Azusa.

It’s the fruit of the tongue talkin trojan horse..,

Yea the Khundalini outpourings, I know what your talking about. I can kind of see what your saying about Azusa but some pioneers of the faith did come out of it. Although in my studies the end of it seems to be the same thing as the rest of these modern day manifestations as you just mentioned. All that growling and barking and hissing isn't it. And I've read stuff that said this was widespread at Azusa toward the end. Plus the rest of this false Pentecostalism came out of it also, so it's results were at best 50 percent or less(probably much much less) over the process of time.

[1ofthechosen]

Before we forget what this thread is about:

https://www.facebook.com/685726851559358/posts/1449882265143809/

Not about IHOP.

Mike you get very angry when we talk about I HOP, but if someone talks about a Oneness group all the above you always have something negative to say towards it. But you contend toward for this group even though you will say explitly you know their in error. I haven't heard you ever contend for any Apostolic leaders ever besides Irvin Baxter, or Ross Drysdale truthfully. I'm not trying to put you down but I'm giving my observations.

And if that is a Apostolic church it looks like one of those snake handler church and we all don't agree with that. The music sounds West Virginian

[Esaias]

And if that is a Apostolic church it looks like one of those snake handler church and we all don't agree with that. The music sounds West Virginian

Ain't nothing wrong with smoky mountain gospel music.

[Esaias]

Also, that ain't no Signs Following church: no boxes on the floor near the pulpit, no oil torch bottles in sight, carpet on the floor, people dressed in Sunday best instead of plain (but modest) everyday wear, nobody wearing suspenders, only one guy flatfootin'... Nah, no taking up serpents going on there.

:)

[n david]

Before we forget what this thread is about:

https://www.facebook.com/685726851559358/posts/1449882265143809/

Not about IHOP.

:toofunny

[derAlte]

I don't know the first thing about the International House of Prayer, but all this mentioning of IHOP is making me hungry. The closest IHOP restaurant to me is a two hour drive over a snowy mountain pass so can we change the subject?

*sits at office desk craving bacon*

[Esaias]

I don't know the first thing about the International House of Prayer, but all this mentioning of IHOP is making me hungry. The closest IHOP restaurant to me is a two hour drive over a snowy mountain pass so can we change the subject?

*sits at office desk craving bacon*

DerAlte has been sitting on this thread for an hour. Must've passed out. Somebody check on him.

[Michael The Disciple]

Mike you get very angry when we talk about I HOP, but if someone talks about a Oneness group all the above you always have something negative to say towards it. But you contend toward for this group even though you will say explitly you know their in error. I haven't heard you ever contend for any Apostolic leaders ever besides Irvin Baxter, or Ross Drysdale truthfully. I'm not trying to put you down but I'm giving my observations.

And if that is a Apostolic church it looks like one of those snake handler church and we all don't agree with that. The music sounds West Virginian

Who said I am very angry? YOU ALL brought IHOP into the discussion. Not me. I have said for a long time I disagree with much at IHOP. You try to make it sound like I am a member of it. I have never been to it and dont no one person there.

But I have always preferred a certain strand of Charismatic worship over the old Pentecostal. In this particular thread 1 AM AGREEING WITH.....YOU:heeheehee

You have been harder on what was seen in the video than I have. You stated there should be no video of Church services BECAUSE OF the carnality seen in it.

But when I......responded that it was a good thing there are recordings to show that there are things done in "worship" that are of the flesh THEN came the usual attacks associating me with IHOP or NAR or "Charismatic".

I dont mind being called "Charismatic". I believe in the gifts. Same as I dont mind being called "Apostolic". I believe in baptism in Jesus name and Oneness.

As far as praising Oneness leaders whats wrong with praising Baxter or Drysdale? If they stand out to me on a certain topic I will praise them.

I am presently aware of 4 Pastors that teach the whole foundation truth. Dave Huston of Carlisle Pa. Steve Sanders Elyria Ohio. Dale Welch of Peshtigo Wis. Mark Nutting of Lyons Wis.

If anyone lives close to these places I highly recommend these Pastors.

[Michael The Disciple]

DerAlte has been sitting on this thread for an hour. Must've passed out. Somebody check on him.

Bless him Lord!

[derAlte]

Bless him Lord!

Thank you. I didn't find any bacon but made do with cake and ice cream. I think I'll be alright now.

[houston]

Doubting Azusa Street? Where does that leave the UPCI?

UPCI.ORG

The UPCI emerged out of the Pentecostal movement that began with a Bible school in Topeka, Kansas, in 1901 and with the Azusa Street Revival in Los Angeles, California, in 1906.

Not my problem

[1ofthechosen]

Who said I am very angry? YOU ALL brought IHOP into the discussion. Not me. I have said for a long time I disagree with much at IHOP. You try to make it sound like I am a member of it. I have never been to it and dont no one person there.

But I have always preferred a certain strand of Charismatic worship over the old Pentecostal. In this particular thread 1 AM AGREEING WITH.....YOU:heeheehee

You have been harder on what was seen in the video than I have. You stated there should be no video of Church services BECAUSE OF the carnality seen in it.

But when I......responded that it was a good thing there are recordings to show that there are things done in "worship" that are of the flesh THEN came the usual attacks associating me with IHOP or NAR or "Charismatic".

I dont mind being called "Charismatic". I believe in the gifts. Same as I dont mind being called "Apostolic". I believe in baptism in Jesus name and Oneness.

As far as praising Oneness leaders whats wrong with praising Baxter or Drysdale? If they stand out to me on a certain topic I will praise them.

I am presently aware of 4 Pastors that teach the whole foundation truth. Dave Huston of Carlisle Pa. Steve Sanders Elyria Ohio. Dale Welch of Peshtigo Wis. Mark Nutting of Lyons Wis.

If anyone lives close to these places I highly recommend these Pastors.


You missed the whole point of why I said there should be no video in church. Not because of the carnality, because worship service is sacred and not entertainment. This thread is a perfect example (this is me giving them the benefit of the doubt.) Of why video taping worship services is counter productive. Let's just say all this is the genuine article and pleasing to God, it shouldn't be being taped. And all I've said and others here wouldn't have happened if it wasn't.

And let me get this straight you believe these people listed above are the only people teaching the "complete" truth, ok that you know of?

[n david]

And let me get this straight you believe these people listed above are the only people teaching the "complete" truth, ok that you know of?
Yes. Out of billions on the planet, there are only 4 who preach the "whole truth" as defined by MTD.

[Michael The Disciple]

You missed the whole point of why I said there should be no video in church. Not because of the carnality, because worship service is sacred and not entertainment. This thread is a perfect example (this is me giving them the benefit of the doubt.) Of why video taping worship services is counter productive. Let's just say all this is the genuine article and pleasing to God, it shouldn't be being taped. And all I've said and others here wouldn't have happened if it wasn't.

And let me get this straight you believe these people listed above are the only people teaching the "complete" truth, ok that you know of?

They are the only Pastors I know of that teach the "full" foundation doctrine of Christ.

[houston]

Yes. Out of billions on the planet, there are only 4 who preach the "whole truth" as defined by MTD.

4 and no more :lol

[n david]

They are the only Pastors I know of that teach the "full" foundation doctrine of Christ.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/e429c10d54f4ab6e005f4e2fd11a565a/tenor.gif?itemid=3476965

[n david]

4 and no more :lol

Hell hath enlarged itself...

[Michael The Disciple]

4 and no more :lol

I never said there were only 4 on Earth that had the truth.

Here is what I ACTUALLY said.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
They are the only Pastors I know of that teach the "full" foundation doctrine of Christ.

There are thousands of Ministers I have never heard of. I'm sure there are more. I just dont know where or who they are.

[Michael The Disciple]

Yes. Out of billions on the planet, there are only 4 who preach the "whole truth" as defined by MTD.

Start giving names of Pastors YOU THINK teach the full foundation truth. Lets examine. You must think it's easy.

[1ofthechosen]

Start giving names of Pastors YOU THINK teach the full foundation truth. Lets examine. You must think it's easy.

Bickel and IHOP? Lol

[1ofthechosen]

Start giving names of Pastors YOU THINK teach the full foundation truth. Lets examine. You must think it's easy.

Mike maybe this will be easier what is the "full foundation truth" point for point let's examine that. Maybe that's why there is only 4 and no more.

Point for point, you don't even have to put scripture just number then 1 through whatever.

[houston]

Mike maybe this will be easier what is the "full foundation truth" point for point let's examine that. Maybe that's why there is only 4 and no more.

Point for point, you don't even have to put scripture just number then 1 through whatever.

You really don’t want to know

[n david]

1. Beards are good.
2. Beards are beautiful
3. Beards
4. Beards
5. Eschatology

[houston]

Pancakes

[1ofthechosen]

Pancakes

Mmmm Pancakes...