Would you sit under Eli?

[houston]

Would you sit under a pastor like Eli? Maybe his children aren't wicked. Perhaps there are other issues. What if there were rumors of a shady past and indiscretions committed by your pastor? Some time passes and then your pastor promotes a repentant adulterer and former pastor to the ministry? Which causes you to think maybe the rumors of your pastor were not rumors.


Do you stay with Eli or find another ministry to sit under? Many people will vote with their feet. Others may try to stay and find a solution. Maybe the solution is to vote Eli out of the pastorate.

Decisions, decisions.

I would more than likely vote with my feet. At this point in life I don't need the drama trying to topple one regime for another.

Perhaps, maybe, just what if the pastor's ministry is necessary for the raising up of a Samuel. What if you're Samuel!?

[jediwill83]

Would you sit under a pastor like Eli? Maybe his children aren't wicked. Perhaps there are other issues. What if there were rumors of a shady past and indiscretions committed by your pastor? Some time passes and then your pastor promotes a repentant adulterer and former pastor to the ministry? Which causes you to think maybe the rumors of your pastor were not rumors.


Do you stay with Eli or find another ministry to sit under? Many people will vote with their feet. Others may try to stay and find a solution. Maybe the solution is to vote Eli out of the pastorate.

Decisions, decisions.

I would more than likely vote with my feet. At this point in life I don't need the drama trying to topple one regime for another.

Perhaps, maybe, just what if the pastor's ministry is necessary for the raising up of a Samuel. What if you're Samuel!?



How does God view restoration or reconciliation?



He restores to what?


To a lesser service?



Are all sins equal in the sight of God?



What does God do with our sin once we repent and are restored?


If Christ died for our sins, they are no longer OUR sins once we exchange our sins for His forgiveness and since OUR own sins are out of our reach and cannot come back upon us without further transgressions.


If that is the case, and He no longer holds forgiven sins against us, do we have the right to take someone elses forgiven sin and hold it against them when its something God doesnt even do and God is the one the pastor who allegedly transgressed against?



Is scripture true when it says that He cleanses us from ALL unrighteousness?


If we are cleansed from ALL unrighteousness, how does God feel when we come along claiming to still see stains in ourselves or others?



Not really our place to judge the necessity of someones calling when its not us that does the calling. The Master hath need of him.


Ultimately, the same critical eye we allow the enemy to turn in the direction of others that tells us why someone shouldnt be used will be the same critical eye that the enemy turns to ourselves to convince ourself that God shouldnt or wont use us. Double edged sword my friend.

[houston]

Being forgiven of sin has nothing to do with whether or not a man can continue to be a minister. A repentant adulterer can be restored to fellowship with the community of believers. He is, however, no longer blamemess and of good reputation.

[houston]

1 Timothy 3

Titus 1

[n david]

Would you sit under a pastor like Eli?
No. If the Pastor of a church I attended allowed his sons to sin openly in the church... absolutely not.

[houston]

Kinda different scenario.No. If the Pastor of a church I attended allowed his sons to sin openly in the church... absolutely not.

[Amanah]

Would you sit under a pastor like Eli? Maybe his children aren't wicked. Perhaps there are other issues. What if there were rumors of a shady past and indiscretions committed by your pastor? Some time passes and then your pastor promotes a repentant adulterer and former pastor to the ministry? Which causes you to think maybe the rumors of your pastor were not rumors.


Do you stay with Eli or find another ministry to sit under? Many people will vote with their feet. Others may try to stay and find a solution. Maybe the solution is to vote Eli out of the pastorate.

Decisions, decisions.

I would more than likely vote with my feet. At this point in life I don't need the drama trying to topple one regime for another.

Perhaps, maybe, just what if the pastor's ministry is necessary for the raising up of a Samuel. What if you're Samuel!?


What if you are Hanah and you pray and fast till judgement falls.

[Originalist]

Being forgiven of sin has nothing to do with whether or not a man can continue to be a minister. A repentant adulterer can be restored to fellowship with the community of believers. He is, however, no longer blamemess and of good reputation.


Over a period of time such a one could become blameless and of a good reputation again.

[houston]

Over a period of time such a one could become blameless and of a good reputation again.

Maybe. I don’t believe in restoring men back into ministry after adultery.

[consapente89]

Maybe. I don’t believe in restoring men back into ministry after adultery.

Your conservative roots are showing.

[consapente89]

Every minister SHOULD have elders in his life who are able to deal with his discrepancies. However, elders only have as much authority as they are given. If I was a non ministering saint in a church, I'm not sure how I would handle it. I certainly do not believe in an attempt to overthrow the pastor. As Amanah said, some may chose to quietly wait and pray while judgment looms. Others may seek out new leadership. In cases that involve immorality or doctrinal compromise, I don't think either position would be wrong. I would confront doctrinal compromise, however, in a respectful face to face manner. I could certainly not subject my family to compromised preaching and teaching.

[houston]

Your conservative roots are showing.

I don’t think my first pastor ever made a statement about it.

Reading that mad me feel good for some reason.

And now I miss KCLEE

[Esaias]

Ecclesiastes 8:11.

Sometimes, things happen because people do not fear the consequences. Things occur because things are tolerated.

Ain't nobody got time for some things.

Saul lost it all, permanently, because he wasn't diligent to perfect his obedience.

God is nothing like a Care Bear. There is a reason the Bible speaks of "the fear of God". We are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. Not too much fear and trembling these days. Why? Eccles. 8:11, that's why.

[n david]

Kinda different scenario.

How's it a different scenario.

[n david]

What if there were rumors of a shady past and indiscretions committed by your pastor? Some time passes and then your pastor promotes a repentant adulterer and former pastor to the ministry? Which causes you to think maybe the rumors of your pastor were not rumors.


Anyone can create a rumor and accusation. There need be no evidence or witnesses or any truth to the rumor or accusation. It could be completely made up or a simple misunderstanding.

Because of this, I don't put much stock into "rumors." I would require witnesses or proof before it would cause me to do something like leave that church.

[houston]

You are ok with restoring repentant adulterers to the ministry?

Anyone can create a rumor and accusation. There need be no evidence or witnesses or any truth to the rumor or accusation. It could be completely made up or a simple misunderstanding.

Because of this, I don't put much stock into "rumors." I would require witnesses or proof before it would cause me to do something like leave that church.

[Apostolic1ness]

Anyone can create a rumor and accusation. There need be no evidence or witnesses or any truth to the rumor or accusation. It could be completely made up or a simple misunderstanding.

Because of this, I don't put much stock into "rumors." I would require witnesses or proof before it would cause me to do something like leave that church.

Biblicaly accusations must be accompanied by two or three witnesses.

[n david]

Biblicaly accusations must be accompanied by two or three witnesses.
This is true. Unfortunately, most church rumors don't follow the Biblical requirement for accusations.

[derAlte]

There is much necessary additional detail needed for this hypothetical question to be answered accurately.

If said Eli analog is a humble, deeply spiritual man, with a loving, compassionate nature who has faithfully and sacrificially served his flock, and is one who genuinely loves people and desires to bring them back to a place of victory and usefulness to the kingdom, then I would give him the benefit of the doubt regarding the former serial adulterer. God is able to help folks overcome. If the pastor had similar issues in his youth, perhaps these taught him compassion in his old age. I’d keep my mouth shut and watch to see how events progress.

However, if said Eli analog is a man with an insatiable lust for power with a long history of stridently proclaiming certain viewpoints of righteousness but then negates them because of a long history of vicious attempts to destroy or drive away those who disagree with him, then that’s another story. If Eli is a person who is bitter over a past loss of power, I would suspect that said former serial adulterer may be someone of the same spirit. I would suspect said Eli analog is looking for an ally. Birds of a feather, flock together, the old saying says. I suspect said Eli analog would have squashed the serial adulterer when he had power, not even remotely considering that he was a damaged and hurting human being. I would suspect, that for some reason, he now thinks the serial adulterer may be someone useful to his agenda. Said serial adulterer should realize that he will be abandoned the moment he is no longer useful.

If I was a member of his church, I’d be out of there in a swift New York minute. I'd be looking for a genuine Apostolic pastor who believes I John 4:7-8 and lives it. At my advanced age, I’ve seen too many phony leaders in the gall of bitterness who claim to believe the message of Jesus Christ, but are in truth walking in the flesh as they try to dominate others to satisfy their pathological lust to rule.

Having said all that, I’ve probably totally misjudged this hypothetical scenario.

[n david]

You are ok with restoring repentant adulterers to the ministry?
From 1 Timothy 3, to be a Bishop (Pastor) or Deacon the man must be blameless, ie: "innocent, guiltless, above reproach, irreproachable, unimpeachable, in the clear, exemplary, perfect, virtuous, pure, impeccable, faultless." Using this, ANY sin will exclude a man from being a Bishop or Deacon, not just sexual sin. I don't understand why people argue over whether sexual sins are worse than others. Sin is sin, no one worse than another.

If we were to strictly follow 1 Timothy 3, a lot of Pastors and ministers would be excluded from being in the ministry.

That said, I believe a person may be restored in ministry after having committed sin.

[houston]

derAlte,

The rumors caused a split sometime after 2001. Well, the supoosed adulteress addressed the congregation to, um, say that the rumors weren’t true.

From other stories I’ve heard, she had been lookout for opportunity to trap the pastor.

I don’t really know what hapoened. Most of the church split. Some that remained were never put to ease.

The church grew a little. At this point it made no sense for the pastor to look for an aly. I want to give Eli the BOTD. But his decision caused the small church to lose everyone. They canceled Spanish service because of attendance. They went from 2 services to 1 on Sunday- because bills. With the crowd they draw they can meet in a house.

[houston]

Some honesty here. Though I don’t support the decision to allow him to minister, I really like the guy. I visited his church a few times before I moved to Houston.

More honesty. Before God TRAPPED me here :foottap I considered moving back. I kionda did, but returned to Houston. Then while visiting one weekend BAM! The accident... you all know the story.
I had every intention to return to Eli’s church. I was moved with compassion toward them.

I love where I’m attending church now! But with my friends talking about possibly returning... I don’t know what I’d do at that point.

[n david]

[B]The rumors caused a split sometime after 2001. Well, the supposed adulteress addressed the congregation to, um, say that the rumors weren’t true.

From other stories I’ve heard, she had been lookout for opportunity to trap the pastor.

I don’t really know what happened. Most of the church split. Some that remained were never put to ease.

The church grew a little. At this point it made no sense for the pastor to look for an ally.
I'm confused. The man was labeled a "repentant adulterer" in a previous post, but he was actually innocent and she lied and made up the accusation?

Am I reading this correctly?

[houston]

I'm confused. The man was labeled a "repentant adulterer" in a previous post, but he was actually innocent and she lied and made up the accusation?

Am I reading this correctly?

The pastor “Eli” -rumors of adultery

The new assistant pastor- repentant adulterer

Would be easier to follow if I used fake names. Sorry.

[houston]

Reading over my posts... frustrated me :foottap

Ok. So...

-Rumors that pastor Eli had an affair caused a split

Many years pass

- Pastor Eli promoted a repentant adulter (a former pastor) to the ministry, causing most of the remaining saints to leave

-Pastor Eli promoted repentant adulterer to assistant pastor

[derAlte]

I withdraw my remarks. Sorry...shouldn't have weighed in on this.

[houston]

What does that have to do with the thread?

[houston]

1 Timothy 3

Titus 1


...

[Esaias]

More than one person over the years has tried to weasel out of a call from God by bringing up to Him their past sins. The gifts and callings of God remain without repentance.

The verse you misquoted has nothing whatsoever to do with any individual's alleged "call to ministry".

[CC1]

Back to the original question of whether or not I would "sit under Eli". My question is "how much does Eli weigh?".

[consapente89]

Does Eli seem to be in good standing with his elders?

[houston]

Does Eli seem to be in good standing with his elders?

I don’t know. NAU is dead.