View Full Version : Discernment of spirits?
houston
11-10-2018, 09:01 PM
I believe that discernment of spirits is to discern if a doctrine is from God or devils. I know people that believe that it is the ability to discern the name of a spirit that may be in dwelling or attacking a person.
Who is right?
jediwill83
11-11-2018, 05:24 AM
I believe that discernment of spirits is to discern if a doctrine is from God or devils. I know people that believe that it is the ability to discern the name of a spirit that may be in dwelling or attacking a person.
Who is right?
The fact that its called discernment of spirits and not discernment of doctrine...
Spirits do not inhabit doctrine...they influence PEOPLE who create,believe and spread the doctrine.
If you are discerning doctrine thatd be like seeing the after effects of ones obedience to a spirit whether good or evil.
Discernment of motivations maybe?
Too early in the morning and with a grumpy toddler to strain my brain like this. Lol Im excited to see what we can come up with in the discussion though.
votivesoul
11-12-2018, 02:21 AM
The Greek for discerning (of spirits) in 1 Corinthians 12:10, and the Greek in 1 Corinthians 14:29 for judging after prophets have spoken are merely different forms of the same word, namely diakrisis and diakrino, respectively.
It would seem then that the main manner in which discernment of spirits is practiced is in evaluating the words spoken in a meeting by the prophets who may be present.
https://biblehub.com/greek/1253.htm
https://biblehub.com/greek/1252.htm
Evang.Benincasa
11-12-2018, 06:05 AM
The Greek for discerning (of spirits) in 1 Corinthians 12:10, and the Greek in 1 Corinthians 14:29 for judging after prophets have spoken are merely different forms of the same word, namely diakrisis and diakrino, respectively.
It would seem then that the main manner in which discernment of spirits is practiced is in evaluating the words spoken in a meeting by the prophets who may be present.
https://biblehub.com/greek/1253.htm
https://biblehub.com/greek/1252.htm
:thumbsup
jediwill83
11-12-2018, 09:29 AM
The Greek for discerning (of spirits) in 1 Corinthians 12:10, and the Greek in 1 Corinthians 14:29 for judging after prophets have spoken are merely different forms of the same word, namely diakrisis and diakrino, respectively.
It would seem then that the main manner in which discernment of spirits is practiced is in evaluating the words spoken in a meeting by the prophets who may be present.
https://biblehub.com/greek/1253.htm
https://biblehub.com/greek/1252.htm
When I first started in EMS and was being trained, something I was taught is that whatever I do behind the wheel, stopping, speeding up and turning was felt 10 times worse in the back than in the front and when the medic is treating the patient, running IVs, doing CPR etc its easy to get thrown around if the driver is too rough and abrupt.
To this end, early on and in other services I worked with they had these audible force meters that would warn you to go easier on what you were doing and in doing so it developed muscle memory that allowed me to drive with the same care even when I was in a vehicle not equipped with that force meter.
What you are talking about with the application of Discernment of Spirits sounds like mature believers are to act as that "force meter" that trains immature believers to the point where they can independently function by learning what is God and what isnt.
Esaias
11-12-2018, 02:49 PM
The Greek for discerning (of spirits) in 1 Corinthians 12:10, and the Greek in 1 Corinthians 14:29 for judging after prophets have spoken are merely different forms of the same word, namely diakrisis and diakrino, respectively.
It would seem then that the main manner in which discernment of spirits is practiced is in evaluating the words spoken in a meeting by the prophets who may be present.
https://biblehub.com/greek/1253.htm
https://biblehub.com/greek/1252.htm
Exactly. And that is what John also said in his epistles about not believing every spirit, but try them to see if they are of God, because there are many false PROPHETS out there (1John 4:1-3).
Pressing-On
11-12-2018, 03:15 PM
Exactly. And that is what John also said in his epistles about not believing every spirit, but try them to see if they are of God, because there are many false PROPHETS out there (1John 4:1-3).
:thumbsup
houston
11-12-2018, 04:12 PM
Ok, so I’m right or wrong?
Tithesmeister
11-12-2018, 04:23 PM
Ok, so I’m right or wrong?
I can’t get into it too deep at the moment, but I believe you’re both wrong. I’ll try to follow up later.
Monterrey
11-12-2018, 04:31 PM
Okay C, you got me to bite, that is what you want.
Let's check out the Word and see what the Word says.
Act 16:16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:
Act 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which show unto us the way of salvation.
Act 16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
This is a great example of the discerning of spirits.
The spirit was compelling or controlling this woman to say the right thing but Paul knew, through the gift, that it was coming from a spirit.
He discerned that it wasn't God's spirit but an unclean spirit that was working here.
This is a great example, Biblically, of the gift of discernment of spirits.
houston
11-12-2018, 07:10 PM
Okay C, you got me to bite, that is what you want.
What..!? :lol
The spirit was compelling or controlling this woman to say the right thing but Paul knew, through the gift, that it was coming from a spirit.
While what she was saying is true, she wasn’t saying the right thing. She was elevating man, not God.
Anyway... Ok. So it can work like that, too.
I guess my issue isn’t with this...
I have a friend who claims to have the gift of discernment of spirits. I’m not saying that God doesn’t speak to him. When we met he spoke to me about things that he had no way of knowing.
But, he sees spirits everywhere. And he ties in his gift into the error that a child of God can give “Satan” a door way into their life by doing xyz. I ask for scripture to support his claims. He has none to offer.
votivesoul
11-13-2018, 04:23 AM
When I first started in EMS and was being trained, something I was taught is that whatever I do behind the wheel, stopping, speeding up and turning was felt 10 times worse in the back than in the front and when the medic is treating the patient, running IVs, doing CPR etc its easy to get thrown around if the driver is too rough and abrupt.
To this end, early on and in other services I worked with they had these audible force meters that would warn you to go easier on what you were doing and in doing so it developed muscle memory that allowed me to drive with the same care even when I was in a vehicle not equipped with that force meter.
What you are talking about with the application of Discernment of Spirits sounds like mature believers are to act as that "force meter" that trains immature believers to the point where they can independently function by learning what is God and what isnt.
Hebrews 5:14 (ESV)
But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.
The Greek word for discernment is διάκρισιν (diakrisin) from diakrisis, mentioned in my previous post.
So, solid meat is for the mature, the ones who have been trained through discernment to know good from evil. That's exactly what elders and other mature saints are supposed to do with neophytes: help them learn good from evil and gain their own ability to discern truth from error, milk from meat, and someday, become teachers themselves.
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/hebrews/5-14.htm
votivesoul
11-13-2018, 04:27 AM
What..!? :lol
While what she was saying is true, she wasn’t saying the right thing. She was elevating man, not God.
Anyway... Ok. So it can work like that, too.
I guess my issue isn’t with this...
I have a friend who claims to have the gift of discernment of spirits. I’m not saying that God doesn’t speak to him. When we met he spoke to me about things that he had no way of knowing.
But, he sees spirits everywhere. And he ties in his gift into the error that a child of God can give “Satan” a door way into their life by doing xyz. I ask for scripture to support his claims. He has none to offer.
When someone tells me they have the "gift of discernment" I immediately begin to tune out whatever comes next. Maybe I shouldn't, but when people make a claim for discernment only to use it as some subjective spook test to chase devils or worship angels, then yeah, I have a hard time buying stock in their company.
jediwill83
11-13-2018, 05:41 AM
What..!? :lol
While what she was saying is true, she wasn’t saying the right thing. She was elevating man, not God.
Anyway... Ok. So it can work like that, too.
I guess my issue isn’t with this...
I have a friend who claims to have the gift of discernment of spirits. I’m not saying that God doesn’t speak to him. When we met he spoke to me about things that he had no way of knowing.
But, he sees spirits everywhere. And he ties in his gift into the error that a child of God can give “Satan” a door way into their life by doing xyz. I ask for scripture to support his claims. He has none to offer.
What you're describing sounds like Word of Knowledge as far as "reading your mail" goes not discenrment.
Have you asked him why hes attributing a gift of the Spirit to something he got from Satan?
Even the Pharisees accused Christ of casting out demons by the power of demons and Jesus was all like,"Guys, thats some crazy talk."
I appreciate yall for making this discussion possible. There is so much I dont understand at times because Im having to filter through what was taught wrong and not necessarily by pastors but by other "saints".
Some of the mess that gets passed around is old wives tales and witchcraft.
Monterrey
11-13-2018, 06:24 AM
I think it is funny in pentecostal ranks today that many say they believe in the HG yet don't believe in other spirits, ie angels or demons. Especially in the US. Now they can believe that they exist in other countries but not here. I ask them, "why do we need the gift of discerning of spirits if there are no spirits? " They then look at you like you fell out of a tree.
I realize that there are those who try to manipulate or misuse the gift, as with any gift, but to deny the gift because of that is not wise.
This is a gift that is especially needed in the ministry. The Bible talks of many voices in the world, none without significance. I don't believe that these are just human voices but spiritual also. The ministry needs to know what they are hearing and discern the origin.
houston
11-13-2018, 07:26 AM
Have you asked him why hes attributing a gift of the Spirit to something he got from Satan?
What? I’m sorry for not being clear. He believes that xyz opens up the door/gives authority to “satan.” He discerns different spirits on and around church folk.
houston
11-13-2018, 07:29 AM
I think it is funny in pentecostal ranks today that many say they believe in the HG yet don't believe in other spirits, ie angels or demons. Especially in the US. Now they can believe that they exist in other countries but not here. I ask them, "why do we need the gift of discerning of spirits if there are no spirits? " They then look at you like you fell out of a tree.
I realize that there are those who try to manipulate or misuse the gift, as with any gift, but to deny the gift because of that is not wise.
This is a gift that is especially needed in the ministry. The Bible talks of many voices in the world, none without significance. I don't believe that these are just human voices but spiritual also. The ministry needs to know what they are hearing and discern the origin.
We discussed this briefly, what, 8 years ago?
I think that that may not be what discernment of spirits is... but I am open to correction from YOU if you can lay it out clearly with scripture. Not necessarily openly on this thread.
Amanah
11-13-2018, 07:41 AM
I have a few thoughts on the subject:
We are to walk after the Spirit so we don't fulfill the lusts of the flesh:
Galatians 5:19-21 19The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God
Jesus balanced His time between withdrawing/separation to pray and ministry:
Luke 5:16 16But Jesus often withdrew to lonely places and prayed.
What we focus on is what we become:
Proverbs 23:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.
So when we spend our time with worldly media, entertainment, music, ect, we are opening ourselves up to the works of the flesh, spiritual wickedness. What is in our hearts will come out of our mouths. We are not going to be in tune with the Spirit. The callings of God are without repentance, but you can end up with a Balaam Spirit, being a false prophet. (Numbers 22)
So, maybe discernment is having an understanding of where people are coming from, what spirits they are subject to because of what they have been entertaining.
consapente89
11-13-2018, 08:41 AM
I have a few thoughts on the subject:
We are to walk after the Spirit so we don't fulfill the lusts of the flesh:
Jesus balanced His time between withdrawing/separation to pray and ministry:
What we focus on is what we become:
So when we spend our time with worldly media, entertainment, music, ect, we are opening ourselves up to the works of the flesh, spiritual wickedness. What is in our hearts will come out of our mouths. We are not going to be in tune with the Spirit. The callings of God are without repentance, but you can end up with a Balaam Spirit, being a false prophet. (Numbers 22)
So, maybe discernment is having an understanding of where people are coming from, what spirits they are subject to because of what they have been entertaining.
Amen.
I also believe that discernment can be given to the ministry to know what spirits are coming against the local church, or attempting to rise up within the church. Spirits of darkness may not be able to possess saints of God, but when a saint grows carnal and cold they can certainly be influenced by spiritual darkness. The devil's agenda is to oppose the work of God, and if he can influence people within the congregation, he is able to raise up opposition. God will give direction to the ministry on what type of spirits are influencing so that they can preach, and spiritual saints so that they can pray.
Pressing-On
11-13-2018, 09:03 AM
I think it is funny in pentecostal ranks today that many say they believe in the HG yet don't believe in other spirits, ie angels or demons. Especially in the US. Now they can believe that they exist in other countries but not here. I ask them, "why do we need the gift of discerning of spirits if there are no spirits? " They then look at you like you fell out of a tree.
I realize that there are those who try to manipulate or misuse the gift, as with any gift, but to deny the gift because of that is not wise.
This is a gift that is especially needed in the ministry. The Bible talks of many voices in the world, none without significance. I don't believe that these are just human voices but spiritual also. The ministry needs to know what they are hearing and discern the origin.
I don't know a lot of people who have that view. Actually, I don't know a single person. However, we can say that the US didn't have to deal with demonic spirits as much as our missionaries who were living in countries filled with idolatry and witchcraft.
Now, as the US has changed, such a strong influx of foreigners and our morality in decline, we are seeing and will see more of this.
We have three spirits to deal with: human spirit, God's Spirit, and demonic spirits.
Several words I have heard through the years that have formed my thinking:
1. "I believe in the Supernatural. I believe in God being Super and me being natural.
2. "I can take care of a demonic spirit in 5 minutes. The human Spirit is what scares me. You can't change that." Billy Cole - words to effect.
3. "If you look for the devil, he will show up. If you look for God, He will show up."
4. "I have met missionaries and pastors who had become too overly conscious of the demon world. They were forever seeking out evil spirits instead of spending time praying and reading the Bible. We have to be aware of this trick of the devil - distraction. He tries to distract us from the work that God has commissioned us to do."
Apostolic1ness
11-13-2018, 09:26 AM
I don't know a lot of people who have that view. Actually, I don't know a single person. However, we can say that the US didn't have to deal with demonic spirits as much as our missionaries who were living in countries filled with idolatry and witchcraft.
Now, as the US has changed, such a strong influx of foreigners and our morality in decline, we are seeing and will see more of this.
We have three spirits to deal with: human spirit, God's Spirit, and demonic spirits.
Several words I have heard through the years that have formed my thinking:
1. "I believe in the Supernatural. I believe in God being Super and me being natural.
2. "I can take care of a demonic spirit in 5 minutes. The human Spirit is what scares me. You can't change that." Billy Cole - words to effect.
3. "If you look for the devil, he will show up. If you look for God, He will show up."
4. "I have met missionaries and pastors who had become too overly conscious of the demon world. They were forever seeking out evil spirits instead of spending time praying and reading the Bible. We have to be aware of this trick of the devil - distraction. He tries to distract us from the work that God has commissioned us to do."
When you say the US are you referring to the Church in the US? There are plenty of demonic spirits in the US with or without foreigners. Maybe we just dont recognize them or refuse to address them for whatever reason.
Pressing-On
11-13-2018, 09:40 AM
When you say the US are you referring to the Church in the US? There are plenty of demonic spirits in the US with or without foreigners. Maybe we just don't recognize them or refuse to address them for whatever reason.
The United States at large. We haven't dealt as much with demonic spirits, in the past, as our missionaries have in other places. Our country has changed and we will deal with it more. People are more openly antagonistic and hostile to Christians in this country, and it was not this way when I was growing up. That can only open up their lives to further destruction, as we already see taking place.
One thing we can know, demonic spirits recognize the power we have with God much more than we recognize ourselves.
Unity is a powerful element for the church.
Esaias
11-13-2018, 06:51 PM
How many can discern if somebody has a spirit of greed or some voodoo-idolatry-from-the-ancestors but can't discern that public school is bad for their kids' spiritual health or that celebrating pagan religious holy days is not cool or that politicians are liars even if they visit a prominent Oneness Pentecostal church every once in a while?
Scott Pitta
11-13-2018, 07:18 PM
When did we not have a strong influx of foreigners ?? Was their contribution detrimental to our society ??
Which foreign influxes were detrimental and which ones made a positive contribution????
Since we no longer have slavery and women can vote, could we say our society has improved ???
Evang.Benincasa
11-14-2018, 05:44 AM
How many can discern if somebody has a spirit of greed or some voodoo-idolatry-from-the-ancestors but can't discern that public school is bad for their kids' spiritual health or that celebrating pagan religious holy days is not cool or that politicians are liars even if they visit a prominent Oneness Pentecostal church every once in a while?
Hello!!!
Did anyone read this?
Amanah
11-14-2018, 06:18 AM
When did we not have a strong influx of foreigners ?? Was their contribution detrimental to our society ??
Which foreign influxes were detrimental and which ones made a positive contribution????
Since we no longer have slavery and women can vote, could we say our society has improved ???
hate to say it, but
Democrats won women’s vote for Congress by the largest margin seen in midterm exit polls
On the Democratic side, these races were viewed not only as a referendum on President Trump, but also, in many cases, on his version of identity politics, which in its final days played to the fears of his base, a group that is largely white, male and Christian. Many female Democratic House candidates who prevailed on Election Day ran in opposition to Trump or his policies. Several were first-time candidates. Republican women like Kristi L. Noem and Marsha Blackburn, on the other hand, made history but were reluctant to mention their gender on the campaign trail, preferring to focus on issues.
Though prominent figures like Andrew Gillum, the Democratic candidate for governor of Florida, failed to win their potentially historic elections, many candidates around the country became the first person of their gender, race, ethnicity or sexual orientation to be elected to their positions in their states, or in some cases, in the country.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/11/07/why-did-democrats-win-house-one-word-women/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f4e46d3e7edc
Scott Pitta
11-14-2018, 06:24 AM
Everyone in our country, other than Native Americans, are immigrants or descendants of immigrants.
Has all of their contributions been detrimental ??
Amanah
11-14-2018, 06:28 AM
Everyone in our country, other than Native Americans, are immigrants or descendants of immigrants.
Has all of their contributions been detrimental ??
we can't have open borders and a welfare state such as the socialists are promoting, it will destroy us.
Apostolic1ness
11-14-2018, 06:29 AM
hate to say it, but
Democrats won women’s vote for Congress by the largest margin seen in midterm exit polls
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/11/07/why-did-democrats-win-house-one-word-women/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f4e46d3e7edc
should probably factor in largest number of turnouts for all segments of society this midterm including women. Washington post may leave that part out.
Apostolic1ness
11-14-2018, 06:34 AM
Everyone in our country, other than Native Americans, are immigrants or descendants of immigrants.
Has all of their contributions been detrimental ??
Where did the "native Americans" come from?
Not sure why they are called native if they migrated from somewhere just like some of the rest.
Evang.Benincasa
11-14-2018, 06:35 AM
hate to say it, but
Democrats won women’s vote for Congress by the largest margin seen in midterm exit polls
On the Democratic side, these races were viewed not only as a referendum on President Trump, but also, in many cases, on his version of identity politics, which in its final days played to the fears of his base, a group that is largely white, male and Christian. Many female Democratic House candidates who prevailed on Election Day ran in opposition to Trump or his policies. Several were first-time candidates. Republican women like Kristi L. Noem and Marsha Blackburn, on the other hand, made history but were reluctant to mention their gender on the campaign trail, preferring to focus on issues.
Though prominent figures like Andrew Gillum, the Democratic candidate for governor of Florida, failed to win their potentially historic elections, many candidates around the country became the first person of their gender, race, ethnicity or sexual orientation to be elected to their positions in their states, or in some cases, in the country.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/11/07/why-did-democrats-win-house-one-word-women/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f4e46d3e7edc
The video tape which had a Gillum employee calling us "white" Floridians crackers didn't help him.
But my question is this, what sort of women voted for democrats?
Amanah
11-14-2018, 06:38 AM
The video tape which had a Gillum employee calling us "white" Floridians crackers didn't help him.
But my question is this, what sort of women voted for democrats?
baby killers who hate patriarchy
Apostolic1ness
11-14-2018, 06:42 AM
The video tape which had a Gillum employee calling us "white" Floridians crackers didn't help him.
But my question is this, what sort of women voted for democrats?
not sure what percent of black women voted dem.
49% white women voted dem
59% white college women voted dem
42% non college women voted dem
according to pewresearch.org
Apostolic1ness
11-14-2018, 06:43 AM
:thumbsupbaby killers who hate patriarchy:yourock
Evang.Benincasa
11-14-2018, 06:47 AM
baby killers who hate patriarchy
Thank you.
Now, lets ask what spirit motivates them?
Evang.Benincasa
11-14-2018, 06:49 AM
not sure what percent of black women voted dem.
49% white women voted dem
59% white college women voted dem
42% non college women voted dem
according to pewresearch.org
It would be interesting to know how many Apostolic women are in those percentages?
Scott Pitta
11-14-2018, 06:51 AM
GOP "deregulation" results in ground water pollution. Polluted ground water results in miscarriages. The relationship between polluted ground water and miscarriages is well documented.
Abortion stops a beating heart. Polluted ground water stops a beating heart.
The difference is abortion is voluntary. Miscarriages are involuntary.
Both the DNC and the GOP have official policies than stop beating hearts.
Therefore, when it comes to the prenatal care, both parties are the same.
Evang.Benincasa
11-14-2018, 06:55 AM
GOP "deregulation" results in ground water pollution. Polluted ground water results in miscarriages. The relationship between polluted ground water and miscarriages is well documented.
Abortion stops a beating heart. Polluted ground water stops a beating heart.
The difference is abortion is voluntary. Miscarriages are involuntary.
Both the DNC and the GOP have official policies than stop beating hearts.
Therefore, when it comes to the prenatal care, both parties are the same.
Scott, what is your solution?
Apostolic1ness
11-14-2018, 07:07 AM
GOP "deregulation" results in ground water pollution. Polluted ground water results in miscarriages. The relationship between polluted ground water and miscarriages is well documented.
Abortion stops a beating heart. Polluted ground water stops a beating heart.
The difference is abortion is voluntary. Miscarriages are involuntary.
Both the DNC and the GOP have official policies than stop beating hearts.
Therefore, when it comes to the prenatal care, both parties are the same.
The whole GOP will pollute the water thing is just an old talking point from the left, wake up friend your being spoon fed a lie.
Apostolic1ness
11-14-2018, 07:09 AM
It would be interesting to know how many Apostolic women are in those percentages?
That would be interesting. I know at least one group of Apostolic women that would not vote dem if their life depended on it.
Scott Pitta
11-14-2018, 07:10 AM
I deal with water conservation on a regular basis. It is what I do when I am not sleuthing Harry Morse.
Ecology and natural resource policy has nothing to do with left or right.
Apostolic1ness
11-14-2018, 07:13 AM
I deal with water conservation on a regular basis. It is what I do when I am not sleuthing Harry Morse.
Ecology and natural resource policy has nothing to do with left or right.
you brought up the GOP deregulation in your post and attached it to polluted water.
Amanah
11-14-2018, 07:33 AM
That would be interesting. I know at least one group of Apostolic women that would not vote dem if their life depended on it.
:thumbsup
Scott Pitta
11-14-2018, 08:21 AM
I have POW friends who would not vote GOP.
Evang.Benincasa
11-14-2018, 08:55 AM
I have POW friends who would not vote GOP.
Why?
Scott Pitta
11-14-2018, 09:04 AM
They find racism in the presidency unacceptable.
Evang.Benincasa
11-14-2018, 09:06 AM
They find racism in the presidency unacceptable.
What racism is in the presidency?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdjoHA5ocwU&ab_channel=BarackObamadotcom
Apostolic1ness
11-14-2018, 09:23 AM
They find racism in the presidency unacceptable.
can you state instances of racism from the President.
aegsm76
11-14-2018, 09:24 AM
GOP "deregulation" results in ground water pollution. Polluted ground water results in miscarriages. The relationship between polluted ground water and miscarriages is well documented.
Abortion stops a beating heart. Polluted ground water stops a beating heart.
The difference is abortion is voluntary. Miscarriages are involuntary.
Both the DNC and the GOP have official policies than stop beating hearts.
Therefore, when it comes to the prenatal care, both parties are the same.
So, did some research (Google) and it appears your assertion is disputed.
Can you provide some further links?
My first thought on seeing the above was confusion, as to how women were getting ground water into their bodies.
As most water is "purified" in water treatment plants.
Here is the link
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4216381/
snippets
These results suggest no increased risk for spontaneous pregnancy loss in association with low to moderate level drinking water iAs exposure. Though imprecise, our data also raise the possibility for increased risk among cigarette smokers. Given the low exposures overall, these data should reassure pregnant women and policy makers with regard to the potential effect of drinking water iAs on early pregnancy, though a larger more definitive study to investigate the potential risk increase in conjunction with cigarette smoking is merited.
Evang.Benincasa
11-14-2018, 09:29 AM
So, did some research (Google) and it appears your assertion is disputed.
Can you provide some further links?
My first thought on seeing the above was confusion, as to how women were getting ground water into their bodies.
As most water is "purified" in water treatment plants.
Here is the link
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4216381/
snippets
These results suggest no increased risk for spontaneous pregnancy loss in association with low to moderate level drinking water iAs exposure. Though imprecise, our data also raise the possibility for increased risk among cigarette smokers. Given the low exposures overall, these data should reassure pregnant women and policy makers with regard to the potential effect of drinking water iAs on early pregnancy, though a larger more definitive study to investigate the potential risk increase in conjunction with cigarette smoking is merited.
Very good homework. :thumbsup
Scott Pitta
11-14-2018, 09:40 AM
There is plenty of data showing the relationship between polluted groundwater and miscarriages.
Filtered water ? Most folks I know do not have filtered water or get their water from municipalities.
Be that as it may, on a state wide scale, polluted water increases miscarriages.
Apostolic1ness
11-14-2018, 09:58 AM
There is plenty of data showing the relationship between polluted groundwater and miscarriages.
Filtered water ? Most folks I know do not have filtered water or get their water from municipalities.
Be that as it may, on a state wide scale, polluted water increases miscarriages.
seriously? most people you know dont have access to clean water?
Evang.Benincasa
11-14-2018, 10:07 AM
There is plenty of data showing the relationship between polluted groundwater and miscarriages.
Filtered water ? Most folks I know do not have filtered water or get their water from municipalities.
Be that as it may, on a state wide scale, polluted water increases miscarriages.
What racism is in the presidency?
Scott Pitta
11-14-2018, 10:32 AM
Water pollution is on the rise in Wisconsin due to specific actions taken by the GOP controlled state government. As it rises, so do the number of miscarriages.
When it comes to protecting the unborn, both parties fail for different reasons. Both parties have policies that stop beating preborn hearts.
Pressing-On
11-14-2018, 10:38 AM
Water pollution is on the rise in Wisconsin due to specific actions taken by the GOP controlled state government. As it rises, so do the number of miscarriages.
When it comes to protecting the unborn, both parties fail for different reasons. Both parties have policies that stop beating preborn hearts.
What does this have to do with the work of the church and why is racism being brought into it when the subject is "discerning of spirits"?
I had to look at the thread title to make sure I was on the right thread. lol
Scott Pitta
11-14-2018, 10:42 AM
We are a bit off topic :)
Evang.Benincasa
11-14-2018, 11:26 AM
What does this have to do with the work of the church and why is racism being brought into it when the subject is "discerning of spirits"?
I had to look at the thread title to make sure I was on the right thread. lol
Ok, let's get back on track.
We can start off with what eschatology is most prevalent among black voters and white voters. After we find that out we can have a nice glass of well water. :)
Evang.Benincasa
11-14-2018, 11:27 AM
We are a bit off topic :)
Hold on before you go please tell me what racism is in the presidency?
Evang.Benincasa
11-14-2018, 11:33 AM
Water pollution is on the rise in Wisconsin due to specific actions taken by the GOP controlled state government. As it rises, so do the number of miscarriages.
When it comes to protecting the unborn, both parties fail for different reasons. Both parties have policies that stop beating preborn hearts.
Growing up I lived with mostly well water and city water of New York. Where regulation for water way more strict back then?
Sorry PO I just saw this post, and needed to ask before the Tribulation.
Pressing-On
11-14-2018, 11:36 AM
We are a bit off topic :)
Okay. So, having been off topic, this could answer your question in regards to Donald J. Trump. I highlighted the main point of his presidency. However, the full article is a must read.
The mayor of Livermore California explains Trump’s popularity and success. This is perhaps the best explanation for Trump's popularity
With Donald Trump, this all has come to an end. Donald Trump is America ’s first wartime president in the Culture War.
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/mayor-livermore-california-explains-trumps-popularity-julian-mccall
Now, back on topic. :D
Pressing-On
11-14-2018, 11:38 AM
Ok, let's get back on track.
We can start off with what eschatology is most prevalent among black voters and white voters. After we find that out we can have a nice glass of well water. :)
:banghead
aegsm76
11-14-2018, 12:07 PM
Water pollution is on the rise in Wisconsin due to specific actions taken by the GOP controlled state government. As it rises, so do the number of miscarriages.
When it comes to protecting the unborn, both parties fail for different reasons. Both parties have policies that stop beating preborn hearts.
Can you give me some links for the above?
Tithesmeister
11-14-2018, 01:21 PM
Allow me to do my part to get this thread headed back in the general direction of the OP, which I find to be an extremely interesting topic for discussion.
First let me say that I am generally in agreement with Monterrey. Sometimes the correct answer is the obvious answer. The obvious answer is that the gift of discernment of spirits is the God-given gift of discerning spirits. To discern means (to me); to know spirits, to differentiate between spirits, to correctly identify spirits, and in the overall context of spiritual gifts, to operate within that gift of discerning spirits for the edification of the church. If you know about a spirit and that knowledge is not used for the edification of the church, then something is amiss.
On the other hand, if you have a feeling about someone that you just can't put your finger on, if you have an opinion about someone, based on their actions in the past, and you know their proclivities based on past behavior, their appearance, or something you have heard about them. You may be wondering, "Do I have the gift of discernment about this person's spirit?" You would be absolutely wrong to believe that you have the spiritual gift of discernment of spirits based on these "feelings".
What if you are proven to be right about them? You may be inclined to believe this "confirms" your gift. Once again you would be wrong. It is absolutely possible to be right operating in the flesh and to still not possess a gift of the Spirit.
An example: I happen to know Mandarin Chinese (not really, but hypothetically) so I can interpret a message in tongues that is in Mandarin Chinese. Does that mean I have the Spiritual gift of interpretation? Of course not! But what if I got it right? It still doesn't mean I have any spiritual gift. It may mean that I spent fourteen years in college studying Mandarin Chinese so therefore I am qualified to interpret a message in tongues that is given in my chosen language of study. Now if I have the Spiritual gift of interpretation, and I give a correct translation of a message given by someone in Mandarin Chinese who is operating in the gift of tongues, me having no clue about the language, that is operating in the gift of interpretation.
Likewise the gift of spiritual discernment. It is possible to be right and still be operating in the flesh and NOT in the Spirit. On the other hand, if you are operating in the gift of the Holy Ghost, you will not be wrong. It is possible to abuse the gift, but it is not possible that the Holy Ghost will lead you to a false conclusion.
It is interesting to me that there seem to be several that have posted on this subject that are skeptical of the authenticity of this gift. I do believe that it is often claimed under false pretense, but I also happen to believe that tongues and interpretation is faked as well. It doesn't lead me to believe that there is no such thing as a genuine gift of tongues and interpretation. As a parallel in mundane life, I have seen counterfeit money, but it doesn't make me believe that all money is worthless.
Just my opinion.
Evang.Benincasa
11-14-2018, 02:21 PM
Just my opinion.
:highfive
Esaias
11-14-2018, 04:21 PM
Hello!!!
Did anyone read this?
I guess not? Too busy discerning if Trump has eyeholes cut into his bed sheets?
jediwill83
11-14-2018, 04:25 PM
I guess not? Too busy discerning if Trump has eyeholes cut into his bed sheets?
We have the best sheets dont we folks?
Birddog
11-14-2018, 04:32 PM
Allow me to do my part to get this thread headed back in the general direction of the OP, which I find to be an extremely interesting topic for discussion.
First let me say that I am generally in agreement with Monterrey. Sometimes the correct answer is the obvious answer. The obvious answer is that the gift of discernment of spirits is the God-given gift of discerning spirits. To discern means (to me); to know spirits, to differentiate between spirits, to correctly identify spirits, and in the overall context of spiritual gifts, to operate within that gift of discerning spirits for the edification of the church. If you know about a spirit and that knowledge is not used for the edification of the church, then something is amiss.
On the other hand, if you have a feeling about someone that you just can't put your finger on, if you have an opinion about someone, based on their actions in the past, and you know their proclivities based on past behavior, their appearance, or something you have heard about them. You may be wondering, "Do I have the gift of discernment about this person's spirit?" You would be absolutely wrong to believe that you have the spiritual gift of discernment of spirits based on these "feelings".
What if you are proven to be right about them? You may be inclined to believe this "confirms" your gift. Once again you would be wrong. It is absolutely possible to be right operating in the flesh and to still not possess a gift of the Spirit.
An example: I happen to know Mandarin Chinese (not really, but hypothetically) so I can interpret a message in tongues that is in Mandarin Chinese. Does that mean I have the Spiritual gift of interpretation? Of course not! But what if I got it right? It still doesn't mean I have any spiritual gift. It may mean that I spent fourteen years in college studying Mandarin Chinese so therefore I am qualified to interpret a message in tongues that is given in my chosen language of study. Now if I have the Spiritual gift of interpretation, and I give a correct translation of a message given by someone in Mandarin Chinese who is operating in the gift of tongues, me having no clue about the language, that is operating in the gift of interpretation.
Likewise the gift of spiritual discernment. It is possible to be right and still be operating in the flesh and NOT in the Spirit. On the other hand, if you are operating in the gift of the Holy Ghost, you will not be wrong. It is possible to abuse the gift, but it is not possible that the Holy Ghost will lead you to a false conclusion.
It is interesting to me that there seem to be several that have posted on this subject that are skeptical of the authenticity of this gift. I do believe that it is often claimed under false pretense, but I also happen to believe that tongues and interpretation is faked as well. It doesn't lead me to believe that there is no such thing as a genuine gift of tongues and interpretation. As a parallel in mundane life, I have seen counterfeit money, but it doesn't make me believe that all money is worthless.
Just my opinion.
Amen
Evang.Benincasa
11-14-2018, 04:41 PM
I guess not? Too busy discerning if Trump has eyeholes cut into his bed sheets?
Wow, where do we go from here.
houston
11-14-2018, 04:43 PM
Everyone in our country, other than Native Americans, are immigrants or descendants of immigrants.
Has all of their contributions been detrimental ??
Wrong! NA’s came from somewhere.
houston
11-14-2018, 04:56 PM
I want input from TJJJJJJ
Evang.Benincasa
11-14-2018, 05:10 PM
How many can discern if somebody has a spirit of greed or some voodoo-idolatry-from-the-ancestors but can't discern that public school is bad for their kids' spiritual health or that celebrating pagan religious holy days is not cool or that politicians are liars even if they visit a prominent Oneness Pentecostal church every once in a while?
Again, I ask did anyone read this post? This is where we are at in this country.
Esaias
11-14-2018, 05:13 PM
Wrong! NA’s came from somewhere.
Multiple somewheres, in fact.
Scott Pitta
11-14-2018, 06:45 PM
I rub shoulders with elected officials from a few governments. Not all of them are liars.
Evang.Benincasa
11-14-2018, 07:04 PM
I rub shoulders with elected officials from a few governments. Not all of them are liars.
I didn't know you were a masseur.
Apostolic1ness
11-15-2018, 06:35 AM
Again, I ask did anyone read this post? This is where we are at in this country.
yep read it. We are in the world but not of the world. If kids cant go to public schools then adults cant work on public jobs. I agree that the public school system puts pressure on our kids but we should be salt and light and not become some cult that hides in a corner or runs every time we face obstacles. Where I live the Pentecostals are winning souls in the public schools.
Some politicians are liars.
I celebrate Christmas, Thanksgiving, veterans day, memorial day, birthdays, etc. To which false god am I worshiping by doing this? I have no knowledge of any God but Jesus. what spirits am I entertaining that are causing me to be lost and without the true God?
Not so sure this is where we are as a country. Maybe where some are, depends on how your looking at the picture. Some are having great revival and family victories church growth strengthened faith, God's blessings, etc. Not everyone is hiding in a corner.
Esaias
11-15-2018, 08:27 AM
yep read it. We are in the world but not of the world. If kids cant go to public schools then adults cant work on public jobs.
Incorrect, non sequitur. Children being educated and adults working a job are two different things altogether.
I celebrate Christmas,...To which false god am I worshiping by doing this?
Baal.
I have no knowledge of any God but Jesus. what spirits am I entertaining that are causing me to be lost and without the true God?
If you celebrate the Feast of the Blessed Trinity, are you engaging in false worship?
Not so sure this is where we are as a country. Maybe where some are, depends on how your looking at the picture. Some are having great revival and family victories church growth strengthened faith, God's blessings, etc. Not everyone is hiding in a corner.
Great revival and family victories that continue sending their progeny to be educated by godless heathens. We have more churches now than ever, more revivals, more preaching... and more porn, trannies, homicide, suicide, and we are watching the dying gasps of Western Civilisation before our very eyes.
The next revival of "historical proportions" will not be among what today is known as the Oneness Pentecostal Movement™, that is fast becoming today's version of yesteryear's Methodism.
But that's okay, God always has a people. If we drop the ball, he can raise up a church from the very rocks, or even some Presbyterians for that matter.
As for hiding in a corner, nobody's doing that, least of all the Communists and their useful idiots. Peanut brittle, anyone?
Pressing-On
11-15-2018, 08:39 AM
yep read it. We are in the world but not of the world. If kids cant go to public schools then adults cant work on public jobs. I agree that the public school system puts pressure on our kids but we should be salt and light and not become some cult that hides in a corner or runs every time we face obstacles. Where I live the Pentecostals are winning souls in the public schools.
I am for choice. Parents should have the right to choose what option works for them. Some families do better at home schooling and some do better in the public environment.
We shouldn't try to make anyone feel badly about their choice either way. It's a personal choice and should remain a personal choice.
Apostolic1ness
11-15-2018, 08:47 AM
Incorrect, non sequitur. Children being educated and adults working a job are two different things altogether.
Baal.
I dont know any baal. I do know Jesus. So im not worshiping Baal. If it would cause you to sin to give gifts or take off work or receive gifts on that day maybe you should not participate.
If you celebrate the Feast of the Blessed Trinity, are you engaging in false worship?
again if it would cause you to stumble and fall from grace you should not eat turkey and dressing on that day wait until the weekend.
Great revival and family victories that continue sending their progeny to be educated by godless heathens. We have more churches now than ever, more revivals, more preaching... and more porn, trannies, homicide, suicide, and we are watching the dying gasps of Western Civilisation before our very eyes.
A sinful world is not the fault of the church
The next revival of "historical proportions" will not be among what today is known as the Oneness Pentecostal Movement™, that is fast becoming today's version of yesteryear's Methodism.
But that's okay, God always has a people. If we drop the ball, he can raise up a church from the very rocks, or even some Presbyterians for that matter.
As for hiding in a corner, nobody's doing that, least of all the Communists and their useful idiots. Peanut brittle, anyone?*
votivesoul
11-16-2018, 09:10 AM
My wife and I had a nice chat a few weeks ago about how seriously messed up or even just misguided most people's understanding of evil spirits is.
It began with her telling me about some kid's cartoon from when she was young where the main character went to Hades or something like that, and a big bad devil came up behind him to scare him, and then, when it spoke, it had a soft, silly voice and said "Hi, my name is Sprinkles(???)" or something like that. I will have to ask her again what the thing said.
Right around the same time, just a day or two before, actually, a coworker was telling me about someone calling herself "Apostle Grace" who's on Facebook teaching people they need to throw out any pre-owned merchandise like furniture or clothing and the like because they contain spirits from the previous owners, and things like that can afflict people, and God showed this "apostle" that the reason she had cancer was because of a used mattress she had upon which the previous owners had committed fornication--and that God healed her when she burned the thing.
Finally, I've thought for a long time that Hollywood has done their due diligence to make it seem like all demonic possession and afflictions are like The Exorcist or some other horror movie.
So, on the one hand, you have false prophets and other nutters at large who have made a devil out of everything, even the most mundane, undemonic thing, and then on the other, you have Hollywood trying to terrify everyone into believing that possessed people go around with their heads literally on backwords, when the truth is in between.
Lots of demonized folks walking, talking, living life, seemingly okay, you'd possibly never know otherwise, until and or unless the Holy Spirit either reveals through a word of knowledge, or causes the evil spirit to convulse and tear and make itself known.
But because of the constant extremes, both of which are seriously flawed, even bogus, saints have a very skewed view of what an evil spirit is, what it does, how it operates, and what the effects of that operation are, because they are either trying to cast demons out of a cookie jar, or they are waiting to get hit in the face with projectile vomit from across the room by someone speaking Latin in a sinister voice.
So, as good brother Esaias pointed out, the average saint can't seem to see where and how actual evil spirits are at play in the world. They just keep on trucking along, never the wiser.
houston
11-16-2018, 09:27 AM
I’m a bit disappointed that there’s no projectile vomiting.
houston
11-16-2018, 09:29 AM
You mention word of knowledge. Is it probable that people confuse a word of knowledge identifying a spirit with the gift of discernment?
votivesoul
11-16-2018, 11:12 AM
I've seen and heard of vomiting occurring during a deliverance from an evil spirit.
But Exorcist style vomiting? I doubt it.
votivesoul
11-16-2018, 11:22 AM
As for Word of Knowledge and Discerning of Spirits...
I shared already what I think it means to discern, which is to say, distinguish by examination, a spirit, vis a vis, the prophets who speak in an assembly and what they have to say or just end up saying regardless.
In such a way, the only "discernment" people need is a correct understanding of the Holy Scriptures. So, near the end of 1 Corinthians 14, Paul writes to the effect of, if anyone thinks they are a prophet or are spiritual, let that person acknowledge that what he wrote to them are the commandments of the Lord.
We have all the necessary commandments of the Lord in the Canon. All anyone has to do is compare and contrast what a prophet speaks to what the Word states. Discernment then gets involved as one comes to understand the Bible better and more accurately so that they can weigh all prophetic utterances in the balance and light of Sacred Writ.
It's not about getting a subjective, mystical feeling in your gut that so and so is off in some secret, wicked way. All one needs to do is be in the Book and take everything said to the pages of their Bible, and go from there. That's discernment of spirits. See what Esaias posted about 1 John 4:1-3 for more on how a "spirit" is in context a prophet.
The Word of Knowledge would, therefore, be different. Consider Simon Peter's encounter with Simon Magus and what he says about him being in the gall of bitterness (there has to be something seriously wrong with anyone who wants to purchase the power to impart the Holy Spirit to people, right?), or even earlier in Acts about how Simon realizes through the Holy Spirit that Ananias and Sapphira have lied.
Another example is Paul and Elymas. Paul knew right away what Elymas was: a child of the devil. Maybe he "discerned" that, in the way that most people think it means, regarding the charismata, or maybe he just needed to know that Elymas was resisting his testimony about Jesus and trying to get others to disregard the Message and Messenger of the Lord. That fact gave Paul the necessary knowledge to say what he said.
Pressing-On
11-16-2018, 12:08 PM
As for Word of Knowledge and Discerning of Spirits...
I shared already what I think it means to discern, which is to say, distinguish by examination, a spirit, vis a vis, the prophets who speak in an assembly and what they have to say or just end up saying regardless.
In such a way, the only "discernment" people need is a correct understanding of the Holy Scriptures. So, near the end of 1 Corinthians 14, Paul writes to the effect of, if anyone thinks they are a prophet or are spiritual, let that person acknowledge that what he wrote to them are the commandments of the Lord.
We have all the necessary commandments of the Lord in the Canon. All anyone has to do is compare and contrast what a prophet speaks to what the Word states. Discernment then gets involved as one comes to understand the Bible better and more accurately so that they can weigh all prophetic utterances in the balance and light of Sacred Writ.
It's not about getting a subjective, mystical feeling in your gut that so and so is off in some secret, wicked way. All one needs to do is be in the Book and take everything said to the pages of their Bible, and go from there. That's discernment of spirits. See what Esaias posted about 1 John 4:1-3 for more on how a "spirit" is in context a prophet.
The Word of Knowledge would, therefore, be different. Consider Simon Peter's encounter with Simon Magus and what he says about him being in the gall of bitterness (there has to be something seriously wrong with anyone who wants to purchase the power to impart the Holy Spirit to people, right?), or even earlier in Acts about how Simon realizes through the Holy Spirit that Ananias and Sapphira have lied.
Another example is Paul and Elymas. Paul knew right away what Elymas was: a child of the devil. Maybe he "discerned" that, in the way that most people think it means, regarding the charismata, or maybe he just needed to know that Elymas was resisting his testimony about Jesus and trying to get others to disregard the Message and Messenger of the Lord. That fact gave Paul the necessary knowledge to say what he said.
I can agree with this. :thumbsup
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