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Amanah
11-13-2018, 07:26 PM
Pastor Woodward rocks holiness teaching

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gew5d_nIxLo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqEoC8nibKo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mUcLSXOsWQ&index=3&list=PLVF6fIHHs9p5Ef3z3eUCpZjQGYvZETDeF

Pressing-On
11-14-2018, 10:39 AM
Wow, he looks really young here. I will listen to these later. Thanks for posting, Amanah! :thumbsup

Amanah
11-14-2018, 10:44 AM
Wow, he looks really young here. I will listen to these later. Thanks for posting, Amanah! :thumbsup

he teaches some things I had never heard before, and deals with men's holiness issues in depth.
not just women.

Pressing-On
11-14-2018, 11:39 AM
he teaches some things I had never heard before, and deals with men's holiness issues in depth.
not just women.

Interesting. I will certainly put that in my watch list. :thumbsup

Pressing-On
11-15-2018, 09:24 AM
he teaches some things I had never heard before, and deals with men's holiness issues in depth.
not just women.

That was on the second part of the first video. You are right, I have never heard it taught before. It balances the whole Holiness issue out between both sexes - very good! :thumbsup:thumbsup

Amanah
11-15-2018, 09:58 AM
That was on the second part of the first video. You are right, I have never heard it taught before. It balances the whole Holiness issue out between both sexes - very good! :thumbsup:thumbsup

On the second video he talks about holiness from creation and through the scriptures. It is also very good. He teaches it in a way that puts it deep in your heart.

Pressing-On
11-15-2018, 10:03 AM
On the second video he talks about holiness from creation and through the scriptures. It is also very good. He teaches it in a way that puts it deep in your heart.

I started listening to it, but if you talk to me too long, I stop paying attention. :D

My children: "Mother, are you listening to me?" Me: "How much longer do you need to talk about this. I have things to do." :heeheehee

I will listen to it later when I have more time.

Amanah
11-16-2018, 08:34 AM
Pastor Woodward says anything you do to alter your appearance (attire, adornment, makeup, hairstyles) to bring attention to yourself is contrary to the spirit of holiness.

houston
11-16-2018, 09:30 AM
Does he comb his hair?

LOVE JESUS
11-16-2018, 10:43 AM
Before I listen to it, does he use scripture to back his beliefs?

Apostolic1ness
11-16-2018, 10:47 AM
[QUOTE=LOVE JESUS;1553943]Before I listen to it, does he use scripture to back his beliefs?
listen to it and find out.:smack

LOVE JESUS
11-16-2018, 11:01 AM
[QUOTE=LOVE JESUS;1553943]Before I listen to it, does he use scripture to back his beliefs?

listen to it and find out.:smack

If someone has already listened to it, they can save the rest of us a lot of time. I have heard standards all my almost 60 years of being a Christian - some are good and scriptural but some are man made ideas. I could name a few but for the sake of time and having many pages of people's ideas, I will not mention it. Trust me I have heard a lot.

Pressing-On
11-16-2018, 12:03 PM
[QUOTE=Apostolic1ness;1553944]

If someone has already listened to it, they can save the rest of us a lot of time. I have heard standards all my almost 60 years of being a Christian - some are good and scriptural but some are man made ideas. I could name a few but for the sake of time and having many pages of people's ideas, I will not mention it. Trust me I have heard a lot.

I believe that he did very well. I've only listened to the first two videos.

On the hair or any other issue, he said (words to effect) that it only needs to be mentioned once to obey. He said that when you get closer to God and gain more understanding, the Word would open up to you.

Anyway, I felt that was the only issue we term as a part of holiness that he didn't focus on much.

This thread is the best discussion we have ever had on the hair issue:

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=52408&highlight=nazarite

Michael The Disciple
11-16-2018, 01:50 PM
From what I have heard typical UPC type holiness preaching. At 28 minutes basically saying sanctification issues are not heaven and hell issues. But if we REBEL against LEADERSHIP IT becomes very dangerous.

In other words mens standards are heaven and hell issues. But Gods are not.

A few minutes later while still supposedly preaching holiness he then says "when you see the word perfect in scripture and it is pointing at God it means "perfect". But if the word "perfect" is used toward men it means "mature" because no man is perfect.

What a young brother said to me a few years back nails it perfectly.

He said "when it comes to Gods commandments they teach we cannot be perfect"...but when it comes to THEIR STANDARDS they teach you must be perfect.

navygoat1998
11-16-2018, 03:49 PM
He said "when it comes to Gods commandments they teach we cannot be perfect"...but when it comes to THEIR STANDARDS they teach you must be perfect.

:thumbsup

Amanah
11-16-2018, 08:49 PM
He covers hair in the third video, and teaches that it refers to veiling and uncut hair, the first being a cultural issue, the latter being an ordinance.

houston
11-16-2018, 09:50 PM
He covers hair in the third video, and teaches that it refers to veiling and uncut hair, the first being a cultural issue, the latter being an ordinance.

Wrong! The former is an ordinance.

Michael The Disciple
11-16-2018, 11:02 PM
He covers hair in the third video, and teaches that it refers to veiling and uncut hair, the first being a cultural issue, the latter being an ordinance.

So does he believe the long hair is the veil or that they both are? My curiosity will have me checking.

Michael The Disciple
11-17-2018, 12:04 AM
Pitiful and confusing at the same time. He ADMITS 1 Cor. 11:5-6 is talking about a veil. Very good.

Then says it was only temporary and not for today. Gives the same old story about temple prostitutes......YET PAUL never once mentions "temple prostitutes".

So if Apostolic women of today read 1 Cor. 11:5-6 for themselves without the "aid" of the temple prostitute story they like this Preacher would realize the 2 verses are about wearing a veil!

It takes this story being put in the background for women to think it is temporary and not for them.

So the key is he is admitting verses 5-6 speaks about covering with a veil. To him those verses are not talking about the hair.

Amanah
11-17-2018, 02:35 AM
He covers hair in the third video, and teaches that it refers to veiling and uncut hair, the first being a cultural issue, the latter being an ordinance.

His teaching on the hair passage was unique

He mentions that witches say there is power in hair,
but that we don't believe hair has magic power

He does affirm that the hair passage is taking about a material head covering,
but then says that Paul was referring to a cultural issues that the church needed to observe due to heathen customs

He then teaches submission through uncut hair.

I have also said that I see both head covering and uncut hair in the passage.

Amanah
11-17-2018, 06:10 AM
His teaching on the hair passage was unique

He mentions that witches say there is power in hair,
but that we don't believe hair has magic power

He does affirm that the hair passage is taking about a material head covering,
but then says that Paul was referring to a cultural issues that the church needed to observe due to heathen customs

He then teaches submission through uncut hair.

I have also said that I see both head covering and uncut hair in the passage.

Bro Woodward teaches (3rd video 1:22:33 mark)

* that Paul teaches not to offend the culture by not wearing a veil.

* and that from 1 Cor 11:14 we learn that a woman's hair is to be uncut (κομάω, κόμω; (κόμη); to let the hair grow, have long hair (cf. κόμη at the end): 1 Corinthians 11:14f (In Greek writings from Homer down.)

mfblume
11-19-2018, 07:29 AM
Bro Woodward teaches (3rd video 1:22:33 mark)

* that Paul teaches not to offend the culture by not wearing a veil.

* and that from 1 Cor 11:14 we learn that a woman's hair is to be uncut
Bro Woodward is right about the veil issue. But if letting hair grow means uncut, then a man has short hair so long as he cuts it occasionally no matter how long down his back it is.

Amanah
11-19-2018, 07:43 AM
Bro Woodward is right . . .

have you ever met Bro Woodward?

Michael The Disciple
11-19-2018, 08:17 AM
Mblume

But if letting hair grow means uncut, then a man has short hair so long as he cuts it occasionally no matter how long down his back it is.

Good point.

Apostolic1ness
11-19-2018, 08:36 AM
Bro Woodward is right about the veil issue. But if letting hair grow means uncut, then a man has short hair so long as he cuts it occasionally no matter how long down his back it is.

Not to God...
To God men and women are not the same.

Esaias
11-19-2018, 08:41 AM
Did he preach entire sanctification, heart purity, Biblical perfection of holiness, the fear of God?

Or is it all about "standards"?

Amanah
11-19-2018, 08:50 AM
Did he preach entire sanctification, heart purity, Biblical perfection of holiness, the fear of God?

Or is it all about "standards"?

He spoke about attitudes and heart purity in the first video and dealt with men and how their holiness issues are mainly issues of the heart.

mfblume
11-20-2018, 07:16 AM
have you ever met Bro Woodward?

yes we know each other personally.

mfblume
11-20-2018, 07:18 AM
Not to God...
To God men and women are not the same.

the scriptures are what God tells us he thinks like and it says that a man must not have what a woman must have, that is who have long hair. So if long hair is uncut, then a man cannot have uncut hair and woman must have uncut hair. And if no matter how long down her back it is and it's still considered short and not long hair because it's cut, then a man can have that.

Apostolic1ness
11-20-2018, 08:05 AM
the scriptures are what God tells us he thinks like and it says that a man must not have what a woman must have, that is who have long hair. So if long hair is uncut, then a man cannot have uncut hair and woman must have uncut hair. And if no matter how long down her back it is and it's still considered short and not long hair because it's cut, then a man can have that.

NO

mfblume
11-25-2018, 07:59 AM
NO

Yes. That is solid bible. To compare what woman should do and men not do. Otherwise, the comparison is irrelevant. Explain, don't just say no, otherwise.

Apostolic1ness
11-26-2018, 07:12 AM
Yes. That is solid bible. To compare what woman should do and men not do. Otherwise, the comparison is irrelevant. Explain, don't just say no, otherwise.

If your trying to make the point that a man can let his hair grow down his back and simply cut or trim but keep it long is ok because he trimmed it so its considered short, the same as a woman's hair would be considered short is not "solid bible." the rules are different for men and women.

mfblume
11-26-2018, 10:54 AM
If your trying to make the point that a man can let his hair grow down his back and simply cut or trim but keep it long is ok because he trimmed it so its considered short, the same as a woman's hair would be considered short is not "solid bible." the rules are different for men and women.

I'm not trying anything. I don't believe men should have hair down their backs. But you're wrong in what is Bible and what is not. The rules that are different are men not to have what women have. You added to the word and went beyond what it stated for men and women.

And you're too traditionalized to see it.

Apostolic1ness
11-26-2018, 11:20 AM
I'm not trying anything. I don't believe men should have hair down their backs. But you're wrong in what is Bible and what is not. The rules that are different are men not to have what women have. You added to the word and went beyond what it stated for men and women.

And you're too traditionalized to see it.

please state where I added to the word.
also show me where Im too traditionalized.

why the name calling?

mfblume
11-26-2018, 11:48 AM
please state where I added to the word.
also show me where Im too traditionalized.

why the name calling?

Accusing someone of being Traditionalized is not name-calling. Nothing personal.

You added more than what the word said about what a man should do and what a woman should do.

All that it actually says is that a woman should "have long hair," and a man shouldn't.

You added the thought that the phrase "have long hair" for a man is different than what "have long hair" is for a woman, and the text says no such thing.

Since the Bible doesn't say that, only tradition could add that, so it shows Traditionalization.

Apostolic1ness
11-26-2018, 12:09 PM
[QUOTE=mfblume;1554756]Accusing someone of being Traditionalized is not name-calling. Nothing personal.

You added more than what the word said about what a man should do and what a woman should do.

All that it actually says is that a woman should "have long hair," and a man shouldn't.

You added the thought that the phrase "have long hair" for a man is different than what "have long hair" is for a woman, and the text says no such thing.
I ADDED THE THOUGHT? GOOD ONE!
Since the Bible doesn't say that, only tradition could add that, so it shows Traditionalization.[/QUOTE

funny statement.
using your logic when you say "All that it actually says is that a woman should "have long hair," and a man shouldn't" since that is not (all) it actually says I guess you are taking away from the word of God...
silly right its the whole mote and beam thing.

mfblume
11-26-2018, 03:14 PM
Show us why a man having long hair is different than a woman having long hair according to the actual text. What's in the text that tells you that?

Why does the phrase "HAVE LONG HAIR" not allow trimming it for women, but "HAVE LONG HAIR" includes trimming it for men?

Esaias
11-26-2018, 08:14 PM
I wonder what the results would be if more churches spent as much effort on ensuring obedience in the areas of childhood education, "dating" and marriage, and understanding government's proper role, as they do on hair and clothing?

Well, one can dream, anyway.

mfblume
11-26-2018, 09:15 PM
I wonder what the results would be if more churches spent as much effort on ensuring obedience in the areas of childhood education, "dating" and marriage, and understanding government's proper role, as they do on hair and clothing?

Well, one can dream, anyway.

Amen.

houston
11-26-2018, 09:22 PM
I wonder what the results would be if more churches spent as much effort on ensuring obedience in the areas of childhood education, "dating" and marriage, and understanding government's proper role, as they do on hair and clothing?

Well, one can dream, anyway.

HAIR IS MORE IMPORTANT! :foottap

LOVE JESUS
11-27-2018, 01:53 AM
I wonder what the results would be if more churches spent as much effort on ensuring obedience in the areas of childhood education, "dating" and marriage, and understanding government's proper role, as they do on hair and clothing?

Well, one can dream, anyway.

AMEN!!! Preach it..

(We might not have very many debating articles on the forum if that were the case)

JoeBandy
11-27-2018, 06:18 AM
I wonder what the results would be if more churches spent as much effort on ensuring obedience in the areas of childhood education, "dating" and marriage, and understanding government's proper role, as they do on hair and clothing?

Well, one can dream, anyway.

Because you wouldn't be able to see how "holy" we are by adhering to the "uniform".