Holy Ghost

[hometown guy]

I think this is the first new thread of the year...

You will know you got it when you speak in tongues as God give you the utterance. Like my former pastor used to say “ its like shoes, the tongues just come with it “.

[jfrog]

I think this is the first new thread of the year...

You will know you got it when you speak in tongues as God give you the utterance. Like my former pastor used to say “ its like shoes, the tongues just come with it “.

I spoke in tongues. There was still a sense of doubt whether the tongues I spoke were genuine. You know, like maybe I just did it cause i wanted it so badly.

I haven’t stepped foot in a church in years and I can’t rememebr the last time I prayed. . I could speak in tongues right now if I desired.

Tongues prove nothing to me and I don’t think they should to you either.

[Apostolic1ness]

I spoke in tongues. There was still a sense of doubt whether the tongues I spoke were genuine. You know, like maybe I just did it cause i wanted it so badly.

I haven’t stepped foot in a church in years and I can’t rememebr the last time I prayed. . I could speak in tongues right now if I desired.

Tongues prove nothing to me and I don’t think they should to you either.

You may jibber jabber right now but friend you will not be speaking in tongues. Tongues only comes by the Spirit of God.

[n david]

You may jibber jabber right now but friend you will not be speaking in tongues. Tongues only comes by the Spirit of God.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/48544549cb0195a7b81b8a7ec003a445/tenor.gif?itemid=9197193

[jfrog]

You may jibber jabber right now but friend you will not be speaking in tongues. Tongues only comes by the Spirit of God.

What I can do now is the same thing that I did then. If it’s jibber jabber now then it was jibber jabber then... Which is ultimately my point. There’s not any distinguishable difference between jibber jabber and tongues.

[TakingDominion]

I spoke in tongues. There was still a sense of doubt whether the tongues I spoke were genuine. You know, like maybe I just did it cause i wanted it so badly.

I haven’t stepped foot in a church in years and I can’t rememebr the last time I prayed. . I could speak in tongues right now if I desired.

Tongues prove nothing to me and I don’t think they should to you either.

I think the more important question is, why haven't you been to church in years? Or prayed?

[jfrog]

I think the more important question is, why haven't you been to church in years? Or prayed?

I think the more important question is why do you still sin?

[Apostolic1ness]

What I can do now is the same thing that I did then. If it’s jibber jabber now then it was jibber jabber then... Which is ultimately my point. There’s not any distinguishable difference between jibber jabber and tongues.

If its the same now as then then you never received the Holy Ghost.

[jfrog]

If its the same now as then then you never received the Holy Ghost.

I understand that’s the only way you can reconcile what I said with your beliefs so I won’t consider it personal.

That said, who made you the judge?

[n david]

What I can do now is the same thing that I did then. If it’s jibber jabber now then it was jibber jabber then... Which is ultimately my point. There’s not any distinguishable difference between jibber jabber and tongues.
That isn't how it works. A1 is correct. If you believe you can just start speaking in tongues, not having prayed or being in connection with the spirit of God; and if you believe that your tongues now is the same as when you believed you received the HG ...

You didn't receive the HG.

Tongues is not as we determine or as we give utterance. It's as the Spirit gives utterance. If you're not connected to the spirit, it won't give utterance.

[consapente89]

I fear much of Pentecost is living on the human mind's imitation of a previous work of the Spirit. The brain can learn to mimic "tongues" after the Spirit is gone. I also fear that we are making reprobates out of people that haven't even been born yet when we are attempting to pray people through to the Holy Ghost that haven't fully repented...and further by telling someone that they have received the Holy Ghost when we see their lips tremble, tongue wag or hear a couple unintelligible syllables.

I hope, jfrog, that at some point you will turn to God in genuine repentance and experience the genuine power of the Holy Ghost.

[jfrog]

I fear much of Pentecost is living on the human mind's imitation of a previous work of the Spirit. The brain can learn to mimic "tongues" after the Spirit is gone. I also fear that we are making reprobates out of people that haven't even been born yet when we are attempting to pray people through to the Holy Ghost that haven't fully repented...and further by telling someone that they have received the Holy Ghost when we see their lips tremble, tongue wag or hear a couple unintelligible syllables.

I hope, jfrog, that at some point you will turn to God in genuine repentance and experience the genuine power of the Holy Ghost.

Thank you. If you had known me all those years ago there would be no doubt in your mind that I had.

Also thank you for understanding my point and stating it much better than I could.

[TakingDominion]

I think the more important question is why do you still sin?

Huh?

[jfrog]

Huh?

And now we all know that it's true because if it hadn't been true you would have already denied it. So I think it's best you self reflect before you accusing me of being a liar or a faker or outright deceived. Understand?

[jfrog]

That isn't how it works. A1 is correct. If you believe you can just start speaking in tongues, not having prayed or being in connection with the spirit of God; and if you believe that your tongues now is the same as when you believed you received the HG ...

You didn't receive the HG.

Tongues is not as we determine or as we give utterance. It's as the Spirit gives utterance. If you're not connected to the spirit, it won't give utterance.

If I am right that I did receive the Holy Spirit then you not only call me a liar but also the Holy Spirit as well. Do you dare risk calling him a liar? That would be blasphemy wouldn't it?

[MawMaw]

What I can do now is the same thing that I did then. If it’s jibber jabber now then it was jibber jabber then... Which is ultimately my point. There’s not any distinguishable difference between jibber jabber and tongues.

I'd be careful being so nonchalant about tongues. God Almighty knows the difference between jibber jabber and what He gives as as a distinct sound and evidence of receiving the HolyGhost! And I also believe that a person will truly know the real gift when they receive it! :nod

[jfrog]

I'd be careful being so nonchalant about tongues. God Almighty knows the difference between jibber jabber and what He gives as as a distinct sound and evidence of receiving the HolyGhost! And I also believe that a person will truly know the real gift when they receive it! :nod

Good then you will take me at my word and all my witnesses all those years ago at their word that I had received the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues.

So then if you believe me about that, then why don't you believe me that I can speak in tongues now and they will be the same as the ones I spoke in then?

[Esaias]

I understand that’s the only way you can reconcile what I said with your beliefs so I won’t consider it personal.

That said, who made you the judge?

You said it's basically jibber jabber. Ergo, not real. You judged yourself.

On an open public forum, even.

Can't remember the last time you prayed? Why not? Why don't you pray? Is it because all this time you suspected religion was a con, a game, a front, a giant LARP? And finally decided to quit playing the game?

Ask yourself this: "Do I actually believe Jesus really, literally, came out of that tomb? Resurrected immortal? And if I do believe it, WHY EXACTLY DO I BELIEVE IT? And if I don't believe it, did I ever really, in fact, believe it? Or was I just playing a long game of let's pretend?"

[Apostolic1ness]

If I am right that I did receive the Holy Spirit then you not only call me a liar but also the Holy Spirit as well. Do you dare risk calling him a liar? That would be blasphemy wouldn't it?

Why do you question us about saying we dont believe you ever received the Holy Ghost, when you are still questioning your own experience and your not even sure if you received the Holy Ghost? It makes no sense for you to doubt and turn around and smite us because we doubt with you.

You say your tongues now is the same as then. well we know now is fake and of the flesh. no prayer no church no God. maybe you should change your thoughts on whether its the same now as then.

[jfrog]

Why do you question us about saying we dont believe you ever received the Holy Ghost, when you are still questioning your own experience and your not even sure if you received the Holy Ghost? It makes no sense for you to doubt and turn around and smite us because we doubt with you.

You say your tongues now is the same as then. well we know now is fake and of the flesh. no prayer no church no God. maybe you should change your thoughts on whether its the same now as then.

Maybe you should listen instead of just pushing your agenda.

I spoke in tongues and received the Holy Ghost. I no longer attend church and rarely pray. I can speak in tongues now and there is no discernible difference in the tongues I can speak now and the tongues I spoke then. The same feeling, the same emotional release etc.

[jfrog]

You said it's basically jibber jabber. Ergo, not real. You judged yourself.

On an open public forum, even.

Can't remember the last time you prayed? Why not? Why don't you pray? Is it because all this time you suspected religion was a con, a game, a front, a giant LARP? And finally decided to quit playing the game?

Ask yourself this: "Do I actually believe Jesus really, literally, came out of that tomb? Resurrected immortal? And if I do believe it, WHY EXACTLY DO I BELIEVE IT? And if I don't believe it, did I ever really, in fact, believe it? Or was I just playing a long game of let's pretend?"

I actually said whatever I can do now is identical to what I did then. I did receive the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues. If that was real then this is real too but we all know this can’t be real now. Thus my only conclusion is that since I wasn’t faking anything all those years ago that the Real thing is actually a fake.

[hometown guy]

I actually said whatever I can do now is identical to what I did then. I did receive the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues. If that was real then this is real too but we all know this can’t be real now. Thus my only conclusion is that since I wasn’t faking anything all those years ago that the Real thing is actually a fake.


I will say it. I don’t believe you. Not saying you are a liar, you might just be deceived.

[jfrog]

I will say it. I don’t believe you. Not saying you are a liar, you might just be deceived.

Right, because that is obviously the only explanation...

[Apostolic1ness]

Maybe you should listen instead of just pushing your agenda.

I spoke in tongues and received the Holy Ghost. I no longer attend church and rarely pray. I can speak in tongues now and there is no discernible difference in the tongues I can speak now and the tongues I spoke then. The same feeling, the same emotional release etc.

No agenda... you just dont have the goods thats all. You dont pray or go to church, you have no relationship with God. You need a good old dose of true repentance be filled with the holy ghost and be faithful to a good apostolic church.

[aegsm76]

Right, because that is obviously the only explanation...

jf - do you believe in a God or an afterlife?

[jfrog]

jf - do you believe in a God or an afterlife?

I’m not sure. Kinda sorta maybe sometimes?

[jfrog]

No agenda... you just dont have the goods thats all. You dont pray or go to church, you have no relationship with God. You need a good old dose of true repentance be filled with the holy ghost and be faithful to a good apostolic church.

I have been filled with the holy ghost

[Esaias]

Maybe you should listen instead of just pushing your agenda.

I spoke in tongues and received the Holy Ghost. I no longer attend church and rarely pray. I can speak in tongues now and there is no discernible difference in the tongues I can speak now and the tongues I spoke then. The same feeling, the same emotional release etc.

Funny thing is, I can't find a single Scripture that identifies the Holy Ghost baptism in particular, or speaking in tongues in general, with any "feeling, emotional release", or anything of the sort, except that those who received the Spirit were usually magnifying God and rejoicing.

I think you may have mistaken an emotional catharsis for a genuine regeneration by the Spirit. Something all the "early Pentecostals" warned about...

[Esaias]

I actually said whatever I can do now is identical to what I did then. I did receive the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues. If that was real then this is real too but we all know this can’t be real now. Thus my only conclusion is that since I wasn’t faking anything all those years ago that the Real thing is actually a fake.

How is it you can't see the utter irrationality of your thought process here? If you got "the Real thang" at one point how can it be fake? If it is actually a fake then by definition it isn't teh Realz™.

I suppose you are saying the Pentecostal experience is not a spiritual reality but a psych trick, that can be duplicated?

Did you know practitioners of certain types of yoga experience glossolalia? And shakes, crying, powerful emotional catharsis, overwhelming feelings both emotional and physical (love, joy, electric shocks, heat/fire, wind, etc)?

And isn't it interesting that the Bible never identifies emotions or sensations as proof of the genuineness of a moving of the Spirit? Speaking in tongues, magnifying God, rejoicing, prophesying, etc, are all listed as signs or evidences, but never PROOF. The NT shows people in undeniably "pentecostal" church communities who TURN OUT TO BE fakes, frauds, charlatans, apostates, antichrists, false teachers, liars, deceivers, agents of Satan, backsliders, sinners, reprobates, and even having unclean/evil spirits. Yet they, for a time, passed incognito in churches founded upon a definitely ecstatic spiritual conversion experience. How so?

Because they could look and act the part just as good as anyone else. But eventually, they get exposed, leave, get found out, or walk away, etc. Why? Because God does in fact prune His vine.

[Esaias]

I’m not sure. Kinda sorta maybe sometimes?

Did you previously believe in God, and that Jesus His Son rose from the dead?

[jfrog]

Did you previously believe in God, and that Jesus His Son rose from the dead?

Yes.

[Esaias]

Yes.

Why? What made you believe that?

[jfrog]

How is it you can't see the utter irrationality of your thought process here? If you got "the Real thang" at one point how can it be fake? If it is actually a fake then by definition it isn't teh Realz™.

All I made was a classic argument by contradiction. A is true. A logically leads/led to something untrue. Therefore A must be untrue.

A = I received the same true Holy Ghost that everyone else received and spoke in the "same" true tongues that everyone else speaks in.

Since I received the same true holy ghost and spoke in the "same" true tongues then I shouldn't be able to speak in tongues in the same way that I can do now.

Thus A is false. The only 2 logical possibilities are either that I did not receive the same true Holy Ghost and tongues experience everyone else did or that there is no actual Holy Ghost and tongues experience as Pentecostals describe.

I am a witness that the Holy Ghost and tongues I received were the same as everyone else. Those I used to attend church with would also bear witness to this.

Thus the only remaining option I have is to view all the experiences as not being real.

[jfrog]

Why? What made you believe that?

fear of hell, faith, upbringing etc. There were a lot more factors I could name if I tried.

[jfrog]

Did you know practitioners of certain types of yoga experience glossolalia? And shakes, crying, powerful emotional catharsis, overwhelming feelings both emotional and physical (love, joy, electric shocks, heat/fire, wind, etc)?

I've heard that before. Ironically that's also how most Pentecostals describe their experiences with the Holy Ghost.

And isn't it interesting that the Bible never identifies emotions or sensations as proof of the genuineness of a moving of the Spirit?

Not really. It's more interesting that Apostolics do identify those things as a evidence of a genuine moving of the Spirit.

More importantly it wasn't the emotions that convinced me that the original was real, it was the many hours of praying for the experience and then finally speaking in tongues. However, after having experienced the real I think I have a pretty good handle on being able to compare the real experience to any other experience.

Speaking in tongues, magnifying God, rejoicing, prophesying, etc, are all listed as signs or evidences, but never PROOF. The NT shows people in undeniably "pentecostal" church communities who TURN OUT TO BE fakes, frauds, charlatans, apostates, antichrists, false teachers, liars, deceivers, agents of Satan, backsliders, sinners, reprobates, and even having unclean/evil spirits. Yet they, for a time, passed incognito in churches founded upon a definitely ecstatic spiritual conversion experience. How so?

Because they could look and act the part just as good as anyone else. But eventually, they get exposed, leave, get found out, or walk away, etc. Why? Because God does in fact prune His vine.

Or maybe they weren't just looking and acting the part. It's actually offensive that such is the default take of anyone that falls away. It's sad really that your faith is so fragile that you couldn't handle it if someone really had what you had and fell away. The bible talks about those that have the true genuine thing and fall away. Why is it that when confronted with such an occurrence that you are incapable of accepting it?

[TakingDominion]

And now we all know that it's true because if it hadn't been true you would have already denied it. So I think it's best you self reflect before you accusing me of being a liar or a faker or outright deceived. Understand?

You are funny. I'm thankful that if I do sin and confess my sins, he is faithful and just to forgive my sins.

I wasn't planning on calling you any of those things. I was going to suggest you find a good church and begin praying again.

[1ofthechosen]

I spoke in tongues. There was still a sense of doubt whether the tongues I spoke were genuine. You know, like maybe I just did it cause i wanted it so badly.

I haven’t stepped foot in a church in years and I can’t rememebr the last time I prayed. . I could speak in tongues right now if I desired.

Tongues prove nothing to me and I don’t think they should to you either.

That's not the Spirit giving the utterance and if that's what your referring to as you spoke in tongues like you did just make yourself do that. That's not the real thing, regardless what the charismatics say.

The reason you don't believe is, you never received the Holy Ghost for real. Thats just a deceptive spirit. You need to repent of false Doctrine, cuz if you don't it's downhill from here.

[Esaias]

fear of hell, faith, upbringing etc. There were a lot more factors I could name if I tried.

So, you weren't necessarily convinced it was true, you just really really hoped it was true. Does that about sum it up?

[Esaias]

I've heard that before. Ironically that's also how most Pentecostals describe their experiences with the Holy Ghost.



Not really. It's more interesting that Apostolics do identify those things as a evidence of a genuine moving of the Spirit.

More importantly it wasn't the emotions that convinced me that the original was real, it was the many hours of praying for the experience and then finally speaking in tongues. However, after having experienced the real I think I have a pretty good handle on being able to compare the real experience to any other experience.



Or maybe they weren't just looking and acting the part. It's actually offensive that such is the default take of anyone that falls away. It's sad really that your faith is so fragile that you couldn't handle it if someone really had what you had and fell away. The bible talks about those that have the true genuine thing and fall away. Why is it that when confronted with such an occurrence that you are incapable of accepting it?

You missed what I was saying. By "looking and acting the part" I did not mean they intentionally tried to act like the others, I meant that to all appearances, they could not be distinguished from the others.

I know the Bible talks about Christians who have experienced the Holy Ghost and then falling away. I never denied that.

What I don't understand is why you can't seem to see the contradiction in claiming "the real thing is fake" or that "the fake stuff is real". Real chocolate cannot be fake chocolate. Fake chocolate cannot be real chocolate.

But none of that matters, really. What I'm curious about is why you seem intent on convincing us you are a genuine full blown apostate? What's the point? You don't believe in God anymore? And?

Or are you just really confused, and are hoping somebody might say the right things that give you some faith?

I really don't understand the point of your posts here.

[hometown guy]

No agenda... you just dont have the goods thats all. You dont pray or go to church, you have no relationship with God. You need a good old dose of true repentance be filled with the holy ghost and be faithful to a good apostolic church.

:thumbsup

[hometown guy]

That's not the Spirit giving the utterance and if that's what your referring to as you spoke in tongues like you did just make yourself do that. That's not the real thing, regardless what the charismatics say.

The reason you don't believe is, you never received the Holy Ghost for real. Thats just a deceptive spirit. You need to repent of false Doctrine, cuz if you don't it's downhill from here.

Yup the devil is a counterfeit for everything.

[jfrog]

So, you weren't necessarily convinced it was true, you just really really hoped it was true. Does that about sum it up?

Nope. No hoping it was true. I knew it was.

[jfrog]

You missed what I was saying. By "looking and acting the part" I did not mean they intentionally tried to act like the others, I meant that to all appearances, they could not be distinguished from the others.

I know the Bible talks about Christians who have experienced the Holy Ghost and then falling away. I never denied that.

What I don't understand is why you can't seem to see the contradiction in claiming "the real thing is fake" or that "the fake stuff is real". Real chocolate cannot be fake chocolate. Fake chocolate cannot be real chocolate.

But none of that matters, really. What I'm curious about is why you seem intent on convincing us you are a genuine full blown apostate? What's the point? You don't believe in God anymore? And?

Or are you just really confused, and are hoping somebody might say the right things that give you some faith?

I really don't understand the point of your posts here.

Not everything has a deeper meaning. This is a discussion board. I posted my thiughts

[Esaias]

All I made was a classic argument by contradiction. A is true. A logically leads/led to something untrue. Therefore A must be untrue.

A = I received the same true Holy Ghost that everyone else received and spoke in the "same" true tongues that everyone else speaks in.

Since I received the same true holy ghost and spoke in the "same" true tongues then I shouldn't be able to speak in tongues in the same way that I can do now.

Thus A is false. The only 2 logical possibilities are either that I did not receive the same true Holy Ghost and tongues experience everyone else did or that there is no actual Holy Ghost and tongues experience as Pentecostals describe.

I am a witness that the Holy Ghost and tongues I received were the same as everyone else. Those I used to attend church with would also bear witness to this.

Thus the only remaining option I have is to view all the experiences as not being real.

Your error is in assuming you had the same experience everyone else did. You might have had the same experience everyone else in YOUR local church had, but that doesn't mean much.

Because your experience does not match mine. Or my wife's. Or a bunch of other people I know. But it DOES match the experience of yet others I have known, who are mostly backslid and apostate now. So there's that.

You are assuming certain things are true in order to validate yourself and your current understanding, including your supposed past (as you are currently interpreting it). You also seem very ignorant of certain basic concepts presented in the Scriptures, and I'll go further and say I honestly doubt you have any interest in what those concepts are or how they might offer a different perspective on your situation.

But, if there's no God, no Holy Ghost, no real genuine salvation, then why are you here? Why aren't you out doing all the fun things you missed out on while living the fake Christian life?

[jfrog]

That's not the Spirit giving the utterance and if that's what your referring to as you spoke in tongues like you did just make yourself do that. That's not the real thing, regardless what the charismatics say.

The reason you don't believe is, you never received the Holy Ghost for real. Thats just a deceptive spirit. You need to repent of false Doctrine, cuz if you don't it's downhill from here.

You should be careful of blasphemy if the HOly Ghost. Bearing false witness against the Holy Ghost is blasphemy isn’t it?

[Esaias]

Nope. No hoping it was true. I knew it was.

BASED ON WHAT? Your previous "reasons" you gave are about as far from any kind of "rationally convincing reasons" as you can get, they were all emotional.

I don't think you were ever actually CONVINCED. Did you believe? Sure. But not because of any kind of rational reason. It was all fear of going to hell, peer pressure, family expectations, learned habit, etc.

So, basically wishful thinking.

[jfrog]

BASED ON WHAT? Your previous "reasons" you gave are about as far from any kind of "rationally convincing reasons" as you can get, they were all emotional.

I don't think you were ever actually CONVINCED. Did you believe? Sure. But not because of any kind of rational reason. It was all fear of going to hell, peer pressure, family expectations, learned habit, etc.

So, basically wishful thinking.

Family pressure lol. My family thought i was in a cult. I was the only person in my family attending an apostolic church. Peer pressure and learned habits and family expectations are a non-starter because if that

[Esaias]

Family pressure lol. My family thought i was in a cult. I was the only person in my family attending an apostolic church.

I'm only going by what you said, you mentioned "upbringing" or something like that, did you not? So I assumed you were raised in at least a nominally Christian-type home.

[jfrog]

I'm only going by what you said, you mentioned "upbringing" or something like that, did you not? So I assumed you were raised in at least a nominally Christian-type home.

When I was young my mom took me to a Baptist church.

[1ofthechosen]

You should be careful of blasphemy if the HOly Ghost. Bearing false witness against the Holy Ghost is blasphemy isn’t it?

Thats not even what that means. My Bible says "test the spirits and see If its of God", just from what you say about your experience I can tell you that's not it. You may of experienced something and you may even believe it, but if you think what you can just roll off your own tongue in your own power is tongues you dont have any idea what your talking about.

[votivesoul]

There is no reason to think that just because you don't go to church or barely ever pray that you cannot still speak with other tongues, the same as you once did however long ago.

That's the illogic of your position. It just means that God hasn't removed the Holy Spirit from you and that any time you do pray, He permits you to speak with other tongues because He is trying to edify you and build up your most holy faith. Perhaps He is trying to allow the Holy Spirit to make intercession for you to lead you back to repentance and belief?

[jfrog]

There is no reason to think that just because you don't go to church or barely ever pray that you cannot still speak with other tongues, the same as you once did however long ago.

That's the illogic of your position. It just means that God hasn't removed the Holy Spirit from you and that any time you do pray, He permits you to speak with other tongues because He is trying to edify you and build up your most holy faith. Perhaps He is trying to allow the Holy Spirit to make intercession for you to lead to back to repentance and belief?

Interesting. I hadn't considered that possibility before.

[jfrog]

Thats not even what that means. My Bible says "test the spirits and see If its of God", just from what you say about your experience I can tell you that's not it.

So talking like you know about something that the Holy Ghost did when you weren't there, when you didn't see it with your own eyes and hear it with your own ears, when other apostolics that were there would say you are wrong... and you think you are in a position to be able to judge what God did in this matter? That you think you are reveals your flaws. That you would even attempt to assert with certainty that God didn't do something given the above circumstances says far more about you and your walk with God than it ever could about me and my experiences. You really should repent lest God hold you accountable for diminishing the work of his Holy Spirit.

[jfrog]

Your error is in assuming you had the same experience everyone else did. You might have had the same experience everyone else in YOUR local church had, but that doesn't mean much.

Because your experience does not match mine. Or my wife's. Or a bunch of other people I know. But it DOES match the experience of yet others I have known, who are mostly backslid and apostate now. So there's that.



Elaborate?

[hometown guy]

There is no reason to think that just because you don't go to church or barely ever pray that you cannot still speak with other tongues, the same as you once did however long ago.

That's the illogic of your position. It just means that God hasn't removed the Holy Spirit from you and that any time you do pray, He permits you to speak with other tongues because He is trying to edify you and build up your most holy faith. Perhaps He is trying to allow the Holy Spirit to make intercession for you to lead to back to repentance and belief?

It’s an illogic position to think someone that does go to church, doesn’t pray and doesn’t even really believe can still have the Holy Ghost. He needs to repent, go to church and start praying.

[consapente89]

Good grief.

[consapente89]

Jfrog you have started a rather senseless argument...but I know how you can settle it!

Get yourself to a good strong Apostolic church, go to the altar, cry out to God in repentance and get a good renewing/ firstime infilling (no one seems to know which but it really doesn’t matter) of the Holy Ghost and submit yourself to a man of God! Then they can move onto a more beneficial debate!

[jfrog]

Jfrog you have started a rather senseless argument...but I know how you can settle it!

Get yourself to a good strong Apostolic church, go to the altar, cry out to God in repentance and get a good renewing/ firstime infilling (no one seems to know which but it really doesn’t matter) of the Holy Ghost and submit yourself to a man of God! Then they can move onto a more beneficial debate!

Considering how adamantly some have claimed I did not get the Holy Ghost I would think it should be important to them to know whether I got it or not, seeing as it's not just an accusation against me, but also against God. Saying "Jfrog didn't receive it is also saying God didn't give it". They may have some repenting to do if God really gave it and they are saying he didn't.

[hometown guy]

Considering how adamantly some have claimed I did not get the Holy Ghost I would think it should be important to them to know whether I got it or not, seeing as it's not just an accusation against me, but also against God. Saying "Jfrog didn't receive it is also saying God didn't give it". They may have some repenting to do if God really gave it and they are saying he didn't.

To me it doesn’t matter if you really got it or not. Doesn’t matter to me if you had it or not. All that matters to me is you get it now and stay full the Holy Ghost!

[hometown guy]

Jfrog you have started a rather senseless argument...but I know how you can settle it!

Get yourself to a good strong Apostolic church, go to the altar, cry out to God in repentance and get a good renewing/ firstime infilling (no one seems to know which but it really doesn’t matter) of the Holy Ghost and submit yourself to a man of God! Then they can move onto a more beneficial debate!

Good advise right here.

[jfrog]

To me it doesn’t matter if you really got it or not. Doesn’t matter to me if you had it or not. All that matters to me is you get it now and stay full the Holy Ghost!

Why is it only my repentance you are worried about and not the ones saying God didn't do something that he did?

[hometown guy]

They may and may not need to repent I don’t know but what I do know is from what you told me about yourself was very honest and you do need to repent and get right. Obviously there is something or you wouldn’t waste your time on an “ apostolic “ forum and have almost 9k post...

[votivesoul]

It’s an illogic position to think someone that does go to church, doesn’t pray and doesn’t even really believe can still have the Holy Ghost. He needs to repent, go to church and start praying.

"Oh, the depths and riches of God's mercy" doesn't ring a bell? God alone is the only One allowed to determine when or if He's going to remove the Holy Spirit. We don't get to judge that, no matter what anyone, jfrog or otherwise, tells us about their current condition.

[Apostolic1ness]

I think your Faith-fullness is determined by your Faithfulness.

[hometown guy]

"Oh, the depths and riches of God's mercy" doesn't ring a bell? God alone is the only One allowed to determine when or if He's going to remove the Holy Spirit. We don't get to judge that, no matter what anyone, jfrog or otherwise, tells us about their current condition.

It sure does ring a bell. His mercy is that he still has an opportunity to repent.

[jfrog]

They may and may not need to repent I don’t know but what I do know is from what you told me about yourself was very honest and you do need to repent and get right. Obviously there is something or you wouldn’t waste your time on an “ apostolic “ forum and have almost 9k post...

In the relatively short time I was in church, it was around 4 years, I devoted a considerable amount of time and energy to God. In fact, I'm sure the amount of time and energy I devoted to the things of God in that 4 year time is more time and energy than many apostolics devote to the things of God over their whole lifetime.

So I think I've put more than enough time into church and God to have the right to waste my time here if I desire, even if the only reason for my being here is to waste my time.

[hometown guy]

In the relatively short time I was in church, it was around 4 years, I devoted a considerable amount of time and energy to God. In fact, I'm sure the amount of time and energy I devoted to the things of God in that 4 year time is more time and energy than many apostolics devote to the things of God over their whole lifetime.

So I think I've put more than enough time into church and God to have the right to waste my time here if I desire, even if the only reason for my being here is to waste my time.

Hope you didn’t take what I said wrong. Wasn’t shooting at you for being on here.

[votivesoul]

It sure does ring a bell. His mercy is that he still has an opportunity to repent.

But not that he can still speak with other tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance?

[hometown guy]

But not that he can still speak with other tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance?

Correct someone who does not repent and pray can not speak in tounges as God gives them the utterances.

[votivesoul]

Correct someone who does not repent and pray can not speak in tounges as God gives them the utterances.

Prove it.

[1ofthechosen]

Prove it.

So your saying somebody who doesn't believe in God, isn't repented and is mocking the Holy Ghost and the people of God can speak in tongues? And this is the Spirit of God giving the utterance? The dude doesn't even believe in God, he says there is "nothing to speaking in tongues." By his own confession. Not my words he said this. To come with the conclusion you have come with is going out on the limb. Thats like Saying some unsaved guy spoke in tongues before he repented. And got saved because of it. If you can find a passage in the Bible where it when alludes to this being a possibility I'll agree. If not, you are hurting this person by telling him he has something he clearly doesn't have. He's not ok and he needs to repent, before it's too late.

[votivesoul]

So your saying somebody who doesn't believe in God, isn't repented and is mocking the Holy Ghost and the people of God can speak in tongues? And this is the Spirit of God giving the utterance? The dude doesn't even believe in God, he says there is "nothing to speaking in tongues." By his own confession. Not my words he said this. To come with the conclusion you have come with is going out on the limb. Thats like Saying some unsaved guy spoke in tongues before he repented. And got saved because of it. If you can find a passage in the Bible where it when alludes to this being a possibility I'll agree. If not, you are hurting this person by telling him he has something he clearly doesn't have. He's not ok and he needs to repent, before it's too late.

Did God give jfrog up to a reprobate mind?

[Apostolic1ness]

Do backsliders have the Holy Ghost in their backslid condition?

[hometown guy]

Did God give jfrog up to a reprobate mind?

Don’t know. Hope not.

[1ofthechosen]

Did God give jfrog up to a reprobate mind?

I doubt that's what any of this whole conversation is about. But I don't know, I'm thinking more along the lines that JFrog is Aquila and none of this is a genuine conversation anyway.

[Esaias]

I doubt that's what any of this whole conversation is about. But I don't know, I'm thinking more along the lines that JFrog is Aquila and none of this is a genuine conversation anyway.

So I'm not the only one thinking along these lines. lol

[jfrog]

I doubt that's what any of this whole conversation is about. But I don't know, I'm thinking more along the lines that JFrog is Aquila and none of this is a genuine conversation anyway.

LOL!!! You obviously ain't been around long enough to know anything.

[jfrog]

So I'm not the only one thinking along these lines. lol

You know what, go take cantelope and cut it in half.....
Then take one half and throw it away...…
Then take the other half and put it where the sun don't shine.

[jfrog]

So your saying somebody who doesn't believe in God,
I don't claim to not believe in God. I claim that only sometimes do I believe in God.

isn't repented
This is true.

and is mocking the Holy Ghost and the people of God can speak in tongues?
Giving an opinion isn't mocking.

And this is the Spirit of God giving the utterance?
I'm with you that this sounds highly improbable but it's at least possible and does resolve the issue if true. So the suggestion was much more wise than you appear to admit.

The dude doesn't even believe in God, he says there is "nothing to speaking in tongues." By his own confession.
This is at worst a misrepresentation and at best an outright lie. I said that speaking in tongues proves nothing to me.

By the way it seems tongues proves nothing to you either because I can do it even now and you refuse to believe it's genuine.

Not my words he said this.
It would help if you stop lying about direct quotes from me.

To come with the conclusion you have come with is going out on the limb. Thats like Saying some unsaved guy spoke in tongues before he repented. And got saved because of it. If you can find a passage in the Bible where it when alludes to this being a possibility I'll agree. If not, you are hurting this person by telling him he has something he clearly doesn't have. He's not ok and he needs to repent, before it's too late.

It's quite a bit different. But since you refuse to even believe I received the Holy Ghost the first time I can understand why you would make such an outlandish comparison

[jfrog]

Do backsliders have the Holy Ghost in their backslid condition?

That's actually a very good question. I don't know the answer to that. I never have thought that backsiders need to get refilled with the Holy Ghost but I do think they need to repent. What do you think?

[1ofthechosen]

So I'm not the only one thinking along these lines. lol

No ive been away for like a week or maybe 2, and I come in here and JFrog has the whole forum turned over like Aquila. I just don't think this is a coincidence. I know he's posted 9,000 times but we know Aquila always said if he wanted to try another line of thought out he would invent a alter ego to explore it out. I believe this is one he was using for a while, it's been too quiet in fact from him. Now it may not be him, but JFrog isnt here on genuine terms either. So whatever and whoever he is, or she who knows, is just blowing smoke...

[hometown guy]

That's actually a very good question. I don't know the answer to that. I never have thought that backsiders need to get refilled with the Holy Ghost but I do think they need to repent. What do you think?

It was actually a retorical question.

[hometown guy]

Or at least it should be lol

[jfrog]

It was actually a retorical question.

Are you sure? You didn't say it, unless you are actually Apostolic1ness... hmmm

[jfrog]

No ive been away for like a week or maybe 2, and I come in here and JFrog has the whole forum turned over like Aquila. I just don't think this is a coincidence. I know he's posted 9,000 times but we know Aquila always said if he wanted to try another line of thought out he would invent a alter ego to explore it out. I believe this is one he was using for a while, it's been too quiet in fact from him. Now it may not be him, but JFrog isnt here on genuine terms either. So whatever and whoever he is, or she who knows, is just blowing smoke...

LOL. Like I said, you haven't been here long enough to know anything

[Esaias]

You know what, go take cantelope and cut it in half.....
Then take one half and throw it away...…
Then take the other half and put it where the sun don't shine.

No thanks.

[Bro Ramel Rush]

I fear much of Pentecost is living on the human mind's imitation of a previous work of the Spirit. The brain can learn to mimic "tongues" after the Spirit is gone. I also fear that we are making reprobates out of people that haven't even been born yet when we are attempting to pray people through to the Holy Ghost that haven't fully repented...and further by telling someone that they have received the Holy Ghost when we see their lips tremble, tongue wag or hear a couple unintelligible syllables.

I hope, jfrog, that at some point you will turn to God in genuine repentance and experience the genuine power of the Holy Ghost.

AMEN!

[hometown guy]

Are you sure? You didn't say it, unless you are actually Apostolic1ness... hmmm

Maybe I am.

[Esaias]

Maybe I am.

I think you are actually [you].

[votivesoul]

Did God give jfrog up to a reprobate mind?

Don’t know. Hope not.

I doubt that's what any of this whole conversation is about. But I don't know, I'm thinking more along the lines that JFrog is Aquila and none of this is a genuine conversation anyway.

2 Corinthians 13:5,

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

You two don't know if God has given up jfrog to a reprobate mind, and yet you both adamantly proclaim that either he never received the Holy Spirit, or that God took the Holy Spirit away from him. The Scriptures declare that Jesus Christ, as the Life-Giving Spirit, continues to dwell in a person unless or except they are reprobates, yet you're both so sure of your positions, even in the face of Paul's writings.

Therefore, since you don't know if jfrog is reprobate you can't possibly know whether God actually did originally give him the Holy Spirit, or took It away.

[Apostolic1ness]

That's actually a very good question. I don't know the answer to that. I never have thought that backsiders need to get refilled with the Holy Ghost but I do think they need to repent. What do you think?

I do not believe backsliders posses the Holy Ghost in their backslidden state.
I do believe they need to repent and be renewed in the Holy Ghost just like anyone else would.

[Michael The Disciple]

I do not believe backsliders posses the Holy Ghost in their backslidden state.
I do believe they need to repent and be renewed in the Holy Ghost just like anyone else would.

At what POINT is one considered backslid?

[Apostolic1ness]

At what POINT is one considered backslid?

MTD thats a good question. It may not be a point it may be a process. Its definitely worth looking at. And It may be different per individual.

Also there may be benchmarks that if passed it is obvious a person is backslid.

[Michael The Disciple]

MTD thats a good question. It may not be a point it may be a process. Its definitely worth looking at. And It may be different per individual.

Also there may be benchmarks that if passed it is obvious a person is backslid.

I agree it is a process. It seems only Jesus who knows the hearts of all men knows at what point HE considers one backslid or when he actually cuts one off.

[hometown guy]

2 Corinthians 13:5,

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

You two don't know if God has given up jfrog to a reprobate mind, and yet you both adamantly proclaim that either he never received the Holy Spirit, or that God took the Holy Spirit away from him. The Scriptures declare that Jesus Christ, as the Life-Giving Spirit, continues to dwell in a person unless or except they are reprobates, yet you're both so sure of your positions, even in the face of Paul's writings.

Therefore, since you don't know if jfrog is reprobate you can't possibly know whether God actually did originally give him the Holy Spirit, or took It away.

Paul never states what you have just said. Neither do the the other writers in the New Testament. That is 100% false doctrine to tell someone unless they are a rebrobate they still have the HG.

[1ofthechosen]

2 Corinthians 13:5,

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

You two don't know if God has given up jfrog to a reprobate mind, and yet you both adamantly proclaim that either he never received the Holy Spirit, or that God took the Holy Spirit away from him. The Scriptures declare that Jesus Christ, as the Life-Giving Spirit, continues to dwell in a person unless or except they are reprobates, yet you're both so sure of your positions, even in the face of Paul's writings.

Therefore, since you don't know if jfrog is reprobate you can't possibly know whether God actually did originally give him the Holy Spirit, or took It away.


By his own confession he doesn't have it. And God didn't take anything away more like he had no place for it. He may of had the Holy Ghost but it never had him and that's very obvious.

Most importantly this a null situation, because it's not even a real scenario, nor is JFrog a real person. I mean I'm sure he's a person but not who he's claiming to be so I take everything he says the same way.

[1ofthechosen]

Paul never states what you have just said. Neither do the the other writers in the New Testament. That is 100% false doctrine to tell someone unless they are a rebrobate they still have the HG.

Sad part is he's defending someone who's only playing games by being here anyway. By his own confession he knows he doesn't have the Holy Ghost, but yet Votive is trying to convince him he does cuz he can still Hyundai Kawasaki Yamaha and tie my bow tie. If anyone should know they got it or don't it should be that person. I agree with him he doesn't have it, and I believe he probably never really did. If he did he have it, it didn't really have him. Because he's forgot all about it, and has passed it off as common.

[jfrog]

By his own confession he doesn't have it. And God didn't take anything away more like he had no place for it. He may of had the Holy Ghost but it never had him and that's very obvious.

Nice job accusing God again. The amazing thing about the Holy Ghost is that you can’t accuse me of anything regarding it without also accusing God.

Most importantly this a null situation, because it's not even a real scenario, nor is JFrog a real person. I mean I'm sure he's a person but not who he's claiming to be so I take everything he says the same way.

More lies. Isn’t it against your religion to lie?

[jfrog]

Sad part is he's defending someone who's only playing games by being here anyway. By his own confession he knows he doesn't have the Holy Ghost, but yet Votive is trying to convince him he does cuz he can still Hyundai Kawasaki Yamaha and tie my bow tie. If anyone should know they got it or don't it should be that person. I agree with him he doesn't have it, and I believe he probably never really did. If he did he have it, it didn't really have him. Because he's forgot all about it, and has passed it off as common.

Votive offered an idea that reconciled the issue. It may or may not be true but that is far further than you have gotten. Your acting like the devil with all your accusations.

Jfrog is fake
Jfrog is someone else
Jfrog is playing games
The Holy Ghost never had jfrog
He Holy Ghost wasn’t given to jfrog
God didn’t give the Holy Ghost to jfrog

The funny thing is that you don’t even realize you aren’t just accusing me but that you are also accusing God. Go repent.

[jfrog]

Paul never states what you have just said. Neither do the the other writers in the New Testament. That is 100% false doctrine to tell someone unless they are a rebrobate they still have the HG.

Well the Bible also doesn’t say when someone loses the Holy Spirit. I’d say votive’s quote at least gives evidence for his belief. Where’s the evidence for yours?

[hometown guy]

Well the Bible also doesn’t say when someone loses the Holy Spirit. I’d say votive’s quote at least gives evidence for his belief. Where’s the evidence for yours?

There is not one shred of evidence for his belief. The Bible might not say the exact moment you lose the Holy Ghost but it does give a whole lot of explanations on who doesn’t have the Holy Ghost and by your own discription fit the bill.... keep not his commandments you are none of his.

[phareztamar]

Well the Bible also doesn’t say when someone loses the Holy Spirit. I’d say votive’s quote at least gives evidence for his belief. Where’s the evidence for yours?

jfrog

winter greetings. just curious why you are here little fella? As the forum name implies, I'm thinking the original intent was a forum for folks who have already entered in through the Acts 2:38 gate, where they could learn, share, and worship Jesus, the Christ of God. Didn't have to read too many of your posts to see that this is not why you are here.

Perhaps you have come to simply test the patience of the King's kids, in that my Lord did admonish us: " in your patience possess ye your souls. " But honestly, freeway driving and work do a much better job of it than you are doing here. And so on the rare occasions that I can join my apostolic friends on this forum, to read about wisdom and doctrine and growing in grace, your snarky posts are just clutter to scroll past. When you do hijack a thread, it is a sad loss for many on here. Like a beautiful flower wilting and dying.

Or perhaps you've come to try and convince my apostolic friends and I of the error of our way. Again, as the forum name implies, we believe we have been given the greatest gift on the planet earth in the Acts 2:38 salvation message. Each one of us has been baptized with the Holy Ghost by Jesus Christ personally, for " He " said John, " shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and fire. " And so as we bumble around on here from newborn babes to grown men of God, you surely must know that your jangling is just a distraction.

Or maybe you've come here to sow discord because you have no home life or social life. Well, it's only working on the babes in Christ. And I'm confident that the sage apostolic friends on this forum shine brightly enough, that even those babes you manage to distract will shortly come around, get bored bickering with you, and be drawn to that light.

So, why have you come here, little fella?

[votivesoul]

Paul never states what you have just said. Neither do the the other writers in the New Testament. That is 100% false doctrine to tell someone unless they are a rebrobate they still have the HG.

Paul never writes that Jesus continues to indwell a person until and unless they become a reprobate? So, the verse I quoted doesn't actually mean what it literally states?

Jesus is the Life-Giving Spirit, yes? Or do you think He is not?

[votivesoul]

By his own confession he doesn't have it. And God didn't take anything away more like he had no place for it. He may of had the Holy Ghost but it never had him and that's very obvious.

Most importantly this a null situation, because it's not even a real scenario, nor is JFrog a real person. I mean I'm sure he's a person but not who he's claiming to be so I take everything he says the same way.

By his own confession, nothing. You are reading into his words and finding whatever it is you want to find. He surmised the possibility that his initial speaking in tongues experience must have been illegitimate because now, concerning his current state, since he can still speak in tongues, and figures that should be IMPOSSIBLE, the likelihood that his initial experience was real is equally impossible.

That is all he ever stated, and you ran a marathon with it to conclusions never once uttered, or in this case, written, by him. It's like you can't wait to nail him to a cross. Be slow to speak, quick to listen means what, exactly?

And as far as jfrog being jfrog, I used to post with him on other apostolic forums years ago, like Apostolic Youth Forums (I had a different handle, then, namely Crying_Abba), and as someone mentioned, he has 9,000 plus posts here, and has been a member for years and years, and no one ever accused him of hiding behind a second screenname, until you. And you've done this how many times? Accuse someone of being someone else? Like half a dozen, maybe ten times.

You like to harp on what you call people's candy-sticks. Well, there's yours. Constantly accusing members of being someone else without any proof.

[votivesoul]

Some of you sure like pushing people away, don't you? Just because he has strayed, doesn't mean he isn't still a sheep belonging to the Lord, you know, He who said He would leave the 99 just persons (apparently you guys) to go and find the one who ended up lost.

If one has erred from the truth and someone converts him back, the one who converts him back saves a soul from death. Do you care about saving jfrog from such a fate? Or are you going to just keep snapping on him, calling him out, accusing him, maligning him? Look past whatever he has posted and see the real human behind the screen.

No one asked him how he came to be in such a place. Maybe he suffered something none of you can possibly imagine and it rocked him so profoundly, his world was never the same. Existential crises of faith exist and until you've been through one, you ought not to jump down on someone who has.

Take some time and get to know him a bit and see if you can relate and build some truth with him and you never know, he might open up to you enough to allow you to actually MINISTER to him and see him come back to God.

[Michael The Disciple]

Some of you sure like pushing people away, don't you? Just because he has strayed, doesn't mean he isn't still a sheep belonging to the Lord, you know, He who said He would live the 99 just persons (apparently you guys) to go and find the one who ended up lost.

If one has erred from the truth and someone converts him back, the one who converts him back saves a soul from death. Do you care about saving jfrog from such a fate? Or are you going to just keep snapping on him, calling him out, accusing him, maligning him? Look past whatever he has posted and see the real human behind the screen.

No one asked him how he came to be in such a place. Maybe he suffered something none of you can possibly imagine and it rocked him so profoundly, his world was never the same. Existential crises of faith exist and until you've been through one, you ought not to jump down on someone who has.

Take some time and get to know him a bit and see if you can relate and build some truth with him and you never know, he might open up to you enough to allow you to actually MINISTER to him and see him come back to God.

:highfive

[1ofthechosen]

What I can do now is the same thing that I did then. If it’s jibber jabber now then it was jibber jabber then... Which is ultimately my point. There’s not any distinguishable difference between jibber jabber and tongues.

Did no one see this? Since you are saying I'm saying something about him, what about this? He clearly says there is nothing to speaking in tongues. So either he never really has, or he has been turned over to a reprobate mind I don't know. But either way it goes he said this not me. Or maybe you missed that.

[1ofthechosen]

. And you've done this how many times? Accuse someone of being someone else? Like half a dozen, maybe ten times.



How many times have I been wrong about that? If you can prove one I'll apologize.

[votivesoul]

Did no one see this? Since you are saying I'm saying something about him, what about this? He clearly says there is nothing to speaking in tongues. So either he never really has, or he has been turned over to a reprobate mind I don't know. But either way it goes he said this not me. Or maybe you missed that.

I saw it, but keep it in context of someone who has lost faith and is under a weight of near agnostic unbelief. So what do we do? Throw down on him, or restore such a one in a spirit of meekness? Launch a volley at him or pray for him?

You constantly looking for ammo from his posts to shoot him down with his own words is never going to bring him around to the very thing you want, which is his repentance and renewal.

[votivesoul]

How many times have I been wrong about that? If you can prove one I'll apologize.

Prove every time you were right and I will apologize, but you cannot because you don't have anything other than hunches and suspicions, not actual proof. Even so, the onus is on you, since you are the one constantly making the claims.

Nonetheless, I already explained to you that jfrog isn't anyone other than jfrog. Same screen name, avatar pic, and everything, from over 12 years ago from a completely different forum, so you could start there with your apology and work your way down.

[TakingDominion]

I saw it, but keep it in context of someone who has lost faith and is under a weight of near agnostic unbelief. So what do we do? Throw down on him, or restore such a one in a spirit of meekness? Launch a volley at him or pray for him?

You constantly looking for ammo from his posts to shoot him down with his own words is never going to bring him around to the very thing you want, which is his repentance and renewal.

I hear what you're saying and agree somewhat with you. However, I also know that acting like a backslider is "ok" in their backslidden state, isn't the answer either. Maybe that's not what your intent was, but that's how your posts come off to me. Jfrog was challenging whether the holy ghost is real while also acknowledging he no longer attends church or prays. When I asked him about it, he called me a sinner and told me to repent of my "sin". I simply told him he needed to find a good church and get his relationship with God back.

You telling him he still may have the holy ghost is silly to me. He doesn't pray, he doesn't attend church by his own admission. He called tongues "jibber jabber". As I said in the beginning of this thread, he needs to find a good church.

[jfrog]

I hear what you're saying and agree somewhat with you. However, I also know that acting like a backslider is "ok" in their backslidden state, isn't the answer either. Maybe that's not what your intent was, but that's how your posts come off to me. Jfrog was challenging whether the holy ghost is real while also acknowledging he no longer attends church or prays. When I asked him about it, he called me a sinner and told me to repent of my "sin". I simply told him he needed to find a good church and get his relationship with God back.

You telling him he still may have the holy ghost is silly to me. He doesn't pray, he doesn't attend church by his own admission. He called tongues "jibber jabber". As I said in the beginning of this thread, he needs to find a good church.

Stop lying about what I said. I call it a lie now because I’ve called you on it enough to know it wasn’t a mistake. I said If it’s jibber jabber now then it was jibber jabber then. You really should repent. Lying is still a sin.

[hometown guy]

Stop lying about what I said. I call it a lie now because I’ve called you on it enough to know it wasn’t a mistake. I said If it’s jibber jabber now then it was jibber jabber then. You really should repent. Lying is still a sin.

So is it jibber jabber to you?....


If you do it without repenting and prayer than it’s jibber jabber.

[TakingDominion]

Stop lying about what I said. I call it a lie now because I’ve called you on it enough to know it wasn’t a mistake. I said If it’s jibber jabber now then it was jibber jabber then. You really should repent. Lying is still a sin.

Go back through this thread and count the times you've called me on it.. specifically me

[jfrog]

Go back through this thread and count the times you've called me on it.. specifically me

Doesn’t matter. You had a chance to apologize and failed to turn from the accusation and instead doubled down on it. Whether I was right about it being a lie before it is one now. You need to repent.

[Esaias]

Does Hebrews 6:4-8 never apply?

If a person has concluded that the Holy Ghost is "just jibber jabber", that there is nothing spiritual to it, that it's just a psychological trick, and further has cast away their CONFIDENCE in Christ, has failed to hold fast the profession of faith... how is that not making shipwreck of one's faith? How is that not "falling away"? How is that not clear evidence of having been rejected and pruned from the Vine?

And lastly, how many people on a course of deep-rooted spiritual error and backsliding have been recovered via some internet discussion forum? It's almost impossible to use social media to get people to repent of doing stupid stuff with their lawnmowers, much less introduce a profound, life-changing revelation into someone's soul.

If a person doest believe with all their heart that Jesus Christ really IS the Son of God, as prophesied, then all this arguing over tongues is a complete distraction from the real issue.

And if a believer is just going through a trying time and season of doubt, the solution is not and never has been intellectual exercises and pouring over the past looking for something to give closure or satisfaction. The solution always was and ever will be to secure a PRESENT salvation. I've always preached that it don't matter a hill of beans that you "got the Holy Ghost back in 19xx", what matters is are you NOW, TODAY, filled with God and walking in His Truth?

[votivesoul]

I hear what you're saying and agree somewhat with you. However, I also know that acting like a backslider is "ok" in their backslidden state, isn't the answer either. Maybe that's not what your intent was, but that's how your posts come off to me. Jfrog was challenging whether the holy ghost is real while also acknowledging he no longer attends church or prays. When I asked him about it, he called me a sinner and told me to repent of my "sin". I simply told him he needed to find a good church and get his relationship with God back.

You telling him he still may have the holy ghost is silly to me. He doesn't pray, he doesn't attend church by his own admission. He called tongues "jibber jabber". As I said in the beginning of this thread, he needs to find a good church.

I never indicated whether I think he is or is not okay in his state. But the likely truth is, he already knows his state, and ultimately it's up to him to do something about it, if he wants to.

Consider the times in which Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of Israel. A pretty much-backslidden nation, a corrupt priesthood, a foreign occupier domineering the land, true worship of God nearly non-existent, and those are the ones Jesus came to save. All of them could have and should have known better.

He didn't say He came for heathen who didn't know the true God of Israel. That salvation came later in Acts. He came to His own, to the very people of God since Moses and the Exodus.

So, if that is the era in which God sent His Son, and if the Son of God was sent to reclaim sheep who strayed into backslidden idolatry and dissolution, and He said He came to save and not condemn, then clearly the restoration of the backslider is of paramount importance to God.

The Lord's only harsh issue was with religious hypocrites, the rest were given tender, loving mercy.

And in jfrog's case, at least in this thread, the objection he has was a mere intellectual issue regarding his experience speaking with other tongues. Basically, a possible misunderstanding, that I attempted to resolve with as likely a possibility as anything else offered, because unless jfrog utterly repudiates Christ as a fraud, apostatizing from God, and has been given up to a reprobate mind, 2 Corinthians 13:5 comes into play, no matter how far we think he has fallen. Because only God knows just how far away jfrog is from becoming a vessel meet for the Master's use, or a vessel of destruction for the glory of God.

And since we are not Him, it's better to err on the side of caution and not go condemning someone who tried to give an otherwise honest assessment of where they are at. Just do what you can to rescue him without heaping judgment upon him. Love believes and hopes all things. It is always worth trying to reach out and help someone out of the ditch of their spiritual condition if they've fallen into one.

Take heed to yourself, right? Because just when you think you stand, you might find yourself fallen. We reap what we sow, always. With whatever judgment we mete out, we get back double.

[hometown guy]

I never indicated whether I think he is or is not okay in his state. But the likely truth is, he already knows his state, and ultimately it's up to him to do something about it, if he wants to.

Consider the times in which Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of Israel. A pretty much-backslidden nation, a corrupt priesthood, a foreign occupier domineering the land, true worship of God nearly non-existent, and those are the ones Jesus came to save. All of them could have and should have known better.

He didn't say He came for heathen who didn't know the true God of Israel. That salvation came later in Acts. He came to His own, to the very people of God since Moses and the Exodus.

So, if that is the era in which God sent His Son, and if the Son of God was sent to reclaim sheep who strayed into backslidden idolatry and dissolution, and He said He came to save and not condemn, then clearly the restoration of the backslider is of paramount importance to God.

The Lord's only harsh issue was with religious hypocrites, the rest were given tender, loving mercy.

And in jfrog's case, at least in this thread, the objection he has was a mere intellectual issue regarding his experience speaking with other tongues. Basically, a possible misunderstanding, that I attempted to resolve with as likely a possibility as anything else offered, because unless jfrog utterly repudiates Christ as a fraud, apostatizing from God, and has been given up to a reprobate mind, 2 Corinthians 13:5 comes into play, no matter how far we think he has fallen. Because only God knows just how far away jfrog is from becoming a vessel meet for the Master's use, or a vessel of destruction for the glory of God.

And since we are not Him, it's better to err on the side of caution and not go condemning someone who tried to give an otherwise honest assessment of where they are at. Just do what you can to rescue him without heaping judgment upon him. Love believes and hopes all things. It is always worth trying to reach out and help someone out of the ditch of their spiritual condition if they've fallen into one.

Take heed to yourself, right? Because just when you think you stand, you might find yourself fallen. We reap what we sow, always. With whatever judgment we mete out, we get back double.

We are erring in the side of caution and doing the most loving thing a Christian can do by telling him he needs to repent.

[votivesoul]

We are erring in the side of caution and doing the most loving thing a Christian can do by telling him he needs to repent.

I don't buy that. That's just passing the buck and not doing much of anything to restore such a one in the spirit of meekness. Restoration of someone overtaken in a fault is a process you enter into with the fallen brother or sister to actually do more than just say "repent".

Yes, repentance is part of the process, and will eventually become the main component of his restoration, but he's likely not in a place where he can, since he's become so agnostic to God even existing, let alone whether or not God can grant him repentance and renew him in the Holy Spirit.

It's akin to James telling us faith without works is dead. You cannot simply tell someone be warm, be filled, but then not provide food and clothing and expect that person to actually be filled and become warm. ACTION ON YOUR PART IS REQUIRED.

And the action that is required is not merely telling him to repent. That's nowhere even remotely close to what it will take to see him actually repent, that is to say, your intended goal.

[hometown guy]

I don't buy that. That's just passing the buck and not doing much of anything to restore such a one in the spirit of meekness. Restoration of someone overtaken in a fault is a process you enter into with the fallen brother or sister to actually do more than just say "repent".

Yes, repentance is part of the process, and will eventually become the main component of his restoration, but he's likely not in a place where he can, since he's become so agnostic to God even existing, let alone whether or not God can grant him repentance and renew him in the Holy Spirit.

It's akin to James telling us faith without works is dead. You cannot simply tell someone be warm, be filled, but then not provide food and clothing and expect that person to actually be filled and become warm. ACTION ON YOUR PART IS REQUIRED.

And the action that is required is not merely telling him to repent. That's nowhere even remotely close to what it will take to see him actually repent, that is to say, your intended goal.

Well if I knew him and lived close to him I could go pray for him as he repents but since I don’t the best I can do is tell him to repent and find a good apostolic church. But to James... I don’t have to give him food if it’s already in his fridge so I can just say if you are hungry open your fridge and get some food. You see he has the answer.... he just needs to repent.

[jfrog]

Well if I knew him and lived close to him I could go pray for him as he repents but since I don’t the best I can do is tell him to repent and find a good apostolic church. But to James... I don’t have to give him food if it’s already in his fridge so I can just say if you are hungry open your fridge and get some food. You see he has the answer.... he just needs to repent.

Lol.