How The Trinity Contradicts Itself

[RonMurray]

The word of God is the final authority. But not only is the Trinity contrary to scripture, but it also contradicts it's own self.

The teaching of the trinity says that God is the Father, God is the Son, and God is the Holy Spirit. But then says that the Father is not the Son or Holy Spirit, the Son is not the Father or Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the Father or Son.

This is a statement of contradiction, and contrary to just plain common sense. Because if God is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, then common sense tells us that they are all the same one.

Using If and Then statements, If A=B, and A=C, A=D, Then B, C, and D are all equal, they are all the same. This is a true statement.

But using the concept of the Trinity, A=B, and A=C, and A=D, but B, C, and D are not equal. This is a false statement.

[layman316]

The word of God is the final authority. But not only is the Trinity contrary to scripture, but it also contradicts it's own self.

The teaching of the trinity says that God is the Father, God is the Son, and God is the Holy Spirit. But then says that the Father is not the Son or Holy Spirit, the Son is not the Father or Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the Father or Son.

This is a statement of contradiction, and contrary to just plain common sense. Because if God is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, then common sense tells us that they are all the same one.

Using If and Then statements, If A=B, and A=C, A=D, Then B, C, and D are all equal, they are all the same. This is a true statement.

But using the concept of the Trinity, A=B, and A=C, and A=D, but B, C, and D are not equal. This is a false statement.

I don't see the contradiction. According to a Trinitarian, the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit are equally God.

Question for you. Is God the Father the Son of God? If yes, please explain your answer with Scripture. Thank you

[Amanah]

The Trinity doctrine is the result Christianity being born into a Greco-Roman world and 2nd - 4th century Christians using Greek/Neoplatonist philosophy to explain the Godhead. It can not be derived from the bible, but is accepted because of the creeds of the Catholic Church.


2.2 The New Testament
The New Testament contains no explicit trinitarian doctrine. However, many Christian theologians, apologists, and philosophers hold that the doctrine can be inferred from what the New Testament does teach about God. But how may it be inferred? Is the inference deductive, or is it an inference to the best explanation? And is it based on what is implicitly taught there, or on what is merely assumed there? Many Christian theologians and apologists seem to hold it is a deductive inference.

In contrast, other Christians admit that their preferred doctrine of the Trinity not only (1) can't be inferred from the Bible alone, but also (2) that there's inadequate or no evidence for it there, and even (3) that what is taught in the Bible is incompatible with the doctrine. These Christians believe the doctrine solely on the authority of later doctrinal pronouncements of the True Christian Church (typically one of: the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox tradition, or the mainstream of the Christian tradition, broadly understood). Some Catholic apologists have argued that this doctrine shows the necessity of the teaching authority of the Church, this doctrine being constitutive of Christianity but underivable from the Bible apart from the Church's guidance in interpreting it. This stance is not popular among Christians who are neither Catholic nor Eastern Orthodox. (2) would be the main sticking point, although some groups deny all three.

Many Christian apologists argue that the doctrine of the Trinity is “biblical” (i.e. either it is implicitly taught there, or it is the best explanation of what is taught there) using three sorts of arguments. They begin by claiming that the Father of Jesus Christ is the one true God taught in the Old Testament. They then argue that given what the Bible teaches about Christ and the Holy Spirit, they must be “fully divine” as well. Thus, we must, as it were, “move them within” the nature of the one God. Therefore, there are three fully divine persons “in God”. While this may be paradoxical, it is argued that this is what God has revealed to humankind through the Bible.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/trinity/trinity-history.html#OneGod

[layman316]

The Trinity doctrine is the result Christianity being born into a Greco-Roman world and 2nd - 4th century Christians using Greek/Neoplatonist philosophy to explain the Godhead. It can not be derived from the bible, but is accepted because of the creeds of the Catholic Church.




https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/trinity/trinity-history.html#OneGod

My question to RonMurray was not to debate trinitarianism, but to question his stated contradiction.

[Amanah]

My question to RonMurray was not to debate trinitarianism, but to question his stated contradiction.

He is pointing out the "logic" of the Trinity because the Trinity is not based in scripture, but in pagan philosophy.

[navygoat1998]

Layman316 is JD Greear one of your go to preachers?

[layman316]

He is pointing out the "logic" of the Trinity because the Trinity is not based in scripture, but in pagan philosophy.

He pointed out his understanding of the Trinity. I want to use his own logic to prove my point. I went to an Apostolic church on Sunday and the message was good until he started misrepresenting the Trinity doctrine. I believe this is why so many Apostolic Oneness have a skewed view of the Trinity.

It would be dishonest if I made statements that distorted the Oneness view, don't you think? If I do, it is not intentional. However, this would be a good topic to start. Why do Oneness preachers need to use an anti-Trinity message to when teaching their own doctrine?

[layman316]

Layman316 is JD Greear one of your go to preachers?

I listen to his podcast from time to time. I just finished his book NOT GOD ENOUGH - Why Your small God leads to big problems.

[navygoat1998]

I listen to his podcast from time to time. I just finished his book NOT GOD ENOUGH - Why Your small God leads to big problems.

I have his book "Gospel" on my shelf and it is on my short list of next reads. I am getting ready to start reading "Courage To Be Healed" by Mark Rutland.

[layman316]

I have his book "Gospel" on my shelf and it is on my short list of next reads. I am getting ready to start reading "Courage To Be Healed" by Mark Rutland.

I need to check into the book "Gospel."

[Esaias]

He pointed out his understanding of the Trinity. I want to use his own logic to prove my point. I went to an Apostolic church on Sunday and the message was good until he started misrepresenting the Trinity doctrine. I believe this is why so many Apostolic Oneness have a skewed view of the Trinity.

It would be dishonest if I made statements that distorted the Oneness view, don't you think? If I do, it is not intentional. However, this would be a good topic to start. Why do Oneness preachers need to use an anti-Trinity message to when teaching their own doctrine?

I have never used "an anti-Trinity message" to preach or teach the truth about One God. I have however mentioned during such preaching/teaching the error of trinitarianism. In fact, I have never in my life personally been in an apostolic meeting where anybody preached or taught a message on the errors of trinitarianism. That is, such was never the subject of any message I can remember. Again, mentioning something in passing about the trinitarian belief has occurred every now and again. But I've never sat through a sermon dedicated to "refuting trinitarianism".

You do realise huge numbers of Oneness believers are former trinitarians, though, right?

How did the preacher misrepresent trinitarianism?

[layman316]

I have never used "an anti-Trinity message" to preach or teach the truth about One God. I have however mentioned during such preaching/teaching the error of trinitarianism. In fact, I have never in my life personally been in an apostolic meeting where anybody preached or taught a message on the errors of trinitarianism. That is, such was never the subject of any message I can remember. Again, mentioning something in passing about the trinitarian belief has occurred every now and again. But I've never sat through a sermon dedicated to "refuting trinitarianism".

You do realise huge numbers of Oneness believers are former trinitarians, though, right?

How did the preacher misrepresent trinitarianism?

Perhaps you need to look up the definition of the prefix "anti." Having been in the Apostolic church for several decades, I have first hand knowledge that my assertion is indeed true. Again, recently I witnessed this as fact.

I never said preachers dedicated their message to refute Trinitarianism.

[Esaias]

Perhaps you need to look up the definition of the prefix "anti." Having been in the Apostolic church for several decades, I have first hand knowledge that my assertion is indeed true. Again, recently I witnessed this as fact.

I never said preachers dedicated their message to refute Trinitarianism.

I never said you said anything. I simply related my experience of over 25 years. Perhaps you need to try Hooked On Phonics?

I noticed though you forgot to actually answer the question.

[layman316]

I never said you said anything. I simply related my experience of over 25 years. Perhaps you need to try Hooked On Phonics?

I noticed though you forgot to actually answer the question.

Thank you for the hooked on phonics insult.

You said: "How did the preacher misrepresent trinitarianism?"

This is an open ended question.

One of the last message was the Sunday school teacher told his members regarding "Once saved always saved" was simply to raise your hand and say you "believe," and go out an live anyway you want.
This is a clear misrepresentation of any teaching I've heard or read about salvation.



You did say I have however mentioned during such preaching/teaching the error of trinitarianism. This proves my point.

antitrinitarian
Adjective
rejecting the Trinitarian doctrine that God subsists as three distinct persons in the single substance of the Holy Trinity; nontrinitarian
Noun
(plural antitrinitarians)

One who rejects the Trinitarian doctrine. Antitraintarianism (https://www.yourdictionary.com/antitrinitarian)