Hillsong's Marty Sampson "Genuinely Losing Faith"

[n david]

Hillsong worship leader Marty Sampson announced on Instagram Friday that he's "genuinely losing his faith"—and he's not upset about it.

"I'm genuinely losing my faith ... and it doesn't bother me."

Sampson was one of Hillsong United's original worship leaders and wrote and co-wrote hundreds of praise songs including hits like "Now that You're Near," "King of Majesty," "O Praise the Name," "For Who You Are" and "Open Heaven."

In his post—which has since been deleted, along with the rest of the artist's Instagram posts—he included a picture of what appears to be Samson bringing down the pillars of the Philistine temple in Judges 16. He writes that the more he thinks about it, the more Christianity seems just like every other religion, and he doesn't want any part of it anymore:

"Christians can be some of the most [judgmental] people on the planet—they can also be some of the most beautiful and loving people ... but it's not for me. I am not in any more. I want genuine truth. Not the 'I just believe it' kind of truth. Science keeps piercing the truth of every religion. Lots of things help people change their lives, not just one version of God."

"How many preachers fall?" he asks. "Many. No one talks about it. How many miracles happen? Not many. No one talks about it. Why is the Bible full of contradictions? No one talks about it. How can God be love yet send 4 billion people to a place, all coz [sic] they don't believe? No one talks about it."

https://www.charismanews.com/us/77563-hillsong-leader-announces-he-wants-no-part-in-christianity-anymore

[n david]

https://media.giphy.com/media/69yJX6x4kZ8xfUqZrh/giphy.gif

[jediwill83]

Josh McDowell has announced his leaving of Christianity as well. The guy that wrote,"I kissed dating goodbye" and all.


You know...that "christian" fad that made so many young people sound so spiritual at camp and then they go off and marry some weirdo.lol

[n david]

"How many preachers fall?" he asks. "Many. No one talks about it. How many miracles happen? Not many. No one talks about it. Why is the Bible full of contradictions? No one talks about it. How can God be love yet send 4 billion people to a place, all coz [sic] they don't believe? No one talks about it."

One thing is very clear after reading this statement from Marty Sampson ....

He's never been on AFF! :toofunny

[jediwill83]

"How many preachers fall?" he asks. "Many. No one talks about it. How many miracles happen? Not many. No one talks about it. Why is the Bible full of contradictions? No one talks about it. How can God be love yet send 4 billion people to a place, all coz [sic] they don't believe? No one talks about it."

One thing is very clear after reading this statement from Marty Sampson ....

He's never been on AFF! :toofunny


He definitely seems a wee bit sheltered.

[Michael The Disciple]

Life with the true Christ is not for everyone. Just for those who take the cross and die to self.

[Jay]

Considering all of the abominations of Hillsong, Bethel, and IHOP, I can not say that I am surprised he decided that Christianity is a farce. Charismatic/Third Wave/Prosperity/New Apostolic Reformation have done nothing but pollute the stream and muddy the waters of authentic Christianity. It is a pity that it is a monster that devours her own children.

[Amanah]

Considering all of the abominations of Hillsong, Bethel, and IHOP, I can not say that I am surprised he decided that Christianity is a farce. Charismatic/Third Wave/Prosperity/New Apostolic Reformation have done nothing but pollute the stream and muddy the waters of authentic Christianity. It is a pity that it is a monster that devours her own children.

:thumbsup

[mfblume]

Josh McDowell has announced his leaving of Christianity as well. The guy that wrote,"I kissed dating goodbye" and all.

You know...that "christian" fad that made so many young people sound so spiritual at camp and then they go off and marry some weirdo.lol

That's Joshua Harris. Josh McDowell is an apologist who is not leaving Christianity.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Hillsong worship leader Marty Sampson announced on Instagram Friday that he's "genuinely losing his faith"—and he's not upset about it.

"I'm genuinely losing my faith ... and it doesn't bother me."

Sampson was one of Hillsong United's original worship leaders and wrote and co-wrote hundreds of praise songs including hits like "Now that You're Near," "King of Majesty," "O Praise the Name," "For Who You Are" and "Open Heaven."

In his post—which has since been deleted, along with the rest of the artist's Instagram posts—he included a picture of what appears to be Samson bringing down the pillars of the Philistine temple in Judges 16. He writes that the more he thinks about it, the more Christianity seems just like every other religion, and he doesn't want any part of it anymore:

"Christians can be some of the most [judgmental] people on the planet—they can also be some of the most beautiful and loving people ... but it's not for me. I am not in any more. I want genuine truth. Not the 'I just believe it' kind of truth. Science keeps piercing the truth of every religion. Lots of things help people change their lives, not just one version of God."

"How many preachers fall?" he asks. "Many. No one talks about it. How many miracles happen? Not many. No one talks about it. Why is the Bible full of contradictions? No one talks about it. How can God be love yet send 4 billion people to a place, all coz [sic] they don't believe? No one talks about it."

https://www.charismanews.com/us/77563-hillsong-leader-announces-he-wants-no-part-in-christianity-anymore


Rich guy losing faith?

Good God from Zion!!!!!!

[jediwill83]

That's Joshua Harris. Josh McDowell is an apologist who is not leaving Christianity.
My bad

[Esaias]

Anyone who knows anything about Hillsong shouldnt be surprised at all.

Hey, here's something: http://www.piratechristian.com/museum-of-idolatry

(Includes an article about Bethel's new tarot card ministry)

[n david]

What a mess the evangelical/charismatic church is today. That pulpit and pen website is depressing. Same with Larry Reid's page. I made the mistake of looking at Reid's page and good grief, the black church is a hot mess. So called Prophets and Bishops sleeping around with all kinds of women, some even openly and unrepentant.

I don't blame Marty Simpson for losing what faith he's seen at Hillsong. I probably would lose faith, too.

Hillsong, Bethel, Gateway -- all these mega churches with wannabe celebrity "Pastors" are built on sand and deception. None of it is real.

Lord, help us. No wonder people have such a negative view of the ministry. You have these frauds and hirelings -- wolves in sheepskin using the ministry for their own lusts.

[mfblume]

My bad

No problem.

These guys and the movements they're into only singing words that rhyme and never get into the solid word of God.

[Evang.Benincasa]

No problem.

These guys and the movements they're into only singing words that rhyme and never get into the solid word of God.

:highfive

[Amanah]

John L Cooper on facebook:

It is time for the church to rediscover the preeminence of the Word. And to value the teaching of the Word. We need to value truth over feeling. Truth over emotion. And what we are seeing now is the result of the church raising up influencers who did not supremely value truth who have led a generation who also do not believe in the supremacy of truth. And now those disavowed leaders are proudly still leading and influencing boldly AWAY from the truth.

Is it any wonder that some of our disavowed Christian leaders are letting go of the absolute truth of the Bible and subsequently their lives are falling apart? Further and further they are sinking in the sea all the while shouting “now I’ve found the truth! Follow me!!” Brothers and sisters in the faith all around the world, pastors, teachers, worship leaders, influencers...I implore you, please please in your search for relevancy for the gospel, let us NOT find creative ways to shape Gods word into the image of our culture by stifling inconvenient truths. But rather let us hold on even tighter to the anchor of the living Word of God. For He changes NOT. “The grass withers and the flowers fade away, but the word of our God stands forever” (Isaiah 40:8)

https://www.facebook.com/johnlcooperstuff/photos/a.2899206263638620/2899204140305499/?type=3&theater

[Michael The Disciple]

No problem.

These guys and the movements they're into only singing words that rhyme and never get into the solid word of God.

Apostolics never lose their faith and fall away? They teach the solid word of God?

PS Mike I could have addressed this to any of us in this thread including myself.

[n david]

John L Cooper on facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/johnlcooperstuff/photos/a.2899206263638620/2899204140305499/?type=3&theater
What In God's Name Is Happening In Christianity

""""Ok I’m saying it. Because it’s too important not to. What is happening in Christianity? More and more of our outspoken leaders or influencers who were once “faces” of the faith are falling away. And at the same time they are being very vocal and bold about it. Shockingly they still want to influence others (for what purpose?)as they announce that they are leaving the faith. I’ll state my conclusion, then I’ll state some rebuttals to statements I’ve read by some of them. Firstly, I never judge people outside of my faith. Even if they hate religion or Christianity. That is not my place and I have many friends who disagree with my religion and that is 100% fine with me. However, when it comes to people within my faith, there must be a measure of loyalty and friendship and accountability to each other and the Word of God.

My conclusion for the church(all of us Christians): We must STOP making worship leaders and thought leaders or influencers or cool people or “relevant” people the most influential people in Christendom. (And yes that includes people like me!) I’ve been saying for 20 years(and seemed probably quite judgmental to some of my peers) that we are in a dangerous place when the church is looking to 20 year old worship singers as our source of truth. We now have a church culture that learns who God is from singing modern praise songs rather than from the teachings of the Word. I’m not being rude to my worship leader friends (many who would agree with me) in saying that singers and musicians are good at communicating emotion and feeling. We create a moment and a vehicle for God to speak. However, singers are not always the best people to write solid bible truth and doctrine. Sometimes we are too young, too ignorant of scripture, too unaware, or too unconcerned about the purity of scripture and the holiness of the God we are singing to. Have you ever considered the disrespect of singing songs to God that are untrue of His character?

I have a few specific thoughts and rebuttals to statements made by recently disavowed church influencers...first of all, I am stunned that the seemingly most important thing for these leaders who have lost their faith is to make such a bold new stance. Basically saying, “I’ve been living and preaching boldly something for 20 years and led generations of people with my teachings and now I no longer believe it..therefore I’m going to boldly and loudly tell people it was all wrong while I boldly and loudly lead people in to my next truth.” I’m perplexed why they aren’t embarrassed? Humbled? Ashamed, fearful, confused? Why be so eager to continue leading people when you clearly don’t know where you are headed?

My second thought is, why do people act like “being real” covers a multitude of sins? As if someone is courageous simply for sharing virally every thought or dark place. That’s not courageous. It’s cavalier. Have they considered the ramifications? As if they are the harbingers of truth, saying “I used to think one way and practice it and preach it, but now I’ve learned all the new truth and will start practicing and preaching it.” So the influencers become the voice for truth in whatever stage of life and whatever evolution takes place in their thinking.

Thirdly, there is a common thread running through these leaders/influencers that basically says that “no one else is talking about the REAL stuff.” This is just flatly false. I just read today in a renown worship leader’s statement, “How could a God of love send people to hell? No one talks about it.” As if he is the first person to ask this? Brother, you are not that unique. The church has wrestled with this for 1500 years. Literally. Everybody talks about it. Children talk about it in Sunday school. There’s like a billion books written on the topic. Just because you don’t get the answer you want doesn’t mean that we are unwilling to wrestle with it. We wrestle with scripture until we are transformed by the renewing of our minds.

And lastly, and most shocking imo, as these influencers disavow their faith, they always end their statements with their “new insight/new truth” that is basically a regurgitation of Jesus’s words?! It’s truly bizarre and ironic. They’ll say “I’m disavowing my faith but remember, love people, be generous, forgive others”. Ummm, why? That is actually not human nature. No child is ever born and says “I just want to love others before loving myself. I want to turn the other cheek. I want to give my money away to others in need”. Those are bible principles taught by a prophet/Priest/king of kings who wants us to live by a higher standard which is not an earthly standard, but rather the ‘Kingdom of God’ standard. Therefore if Jesus is not the truth and if the Word of God is not absolute, then by preaching Jesus’s teachings you are endorsing the words of a madman. A lunatic who said “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the father except through me.” He also said that he was alive before Abraham, and to see him was to see God because he was one with God. So why then would a disavowed christian leader promote that “generosity is good”? How would you know “what is good” without Jesus’s teachings? And will your ideas of what is “good” be different from year to year based on your experience, culture trends, poplular opinion etc and furthermore will you continue year by year to lead others into your idea of goodness even though it is not absolute? I’m amazed that so many Christians want the benefits of the kingdom of God, but with the caveat that they themselves will be the King.

It is time for the church to rediscover the preeminence of the Word. And to value the teaching of the Word. We need to value truth over feeling. Truth over emotion. And what we are seeing now is the result of the church raising up influencers who did not supremely value truth who have led a generation who also do not believe in the supremacy of truth. And now those disavowed leaders are proudly still leading and influencing boldly AWAY from the truth.

Is it any wonder that some of our disavowed Christian leaders are letting go of the absolute truth of the Bible and subsequently their lives are falling apart? Further and further they are sinking in the sea all the while shouting “now I’ve found the truth! Follow me!!” Brothers and sisters in the faith all around the world, pastors, teachers, worship leaders, influencers...I implore you, please please in your search for relevancy for the gospel, let us NOT find creative ways to shape Gods word into the image of our culture by stifling inconvenient truths. But rather let us hold on even tighter to the anchor of the living Word of God. For He changes NOT. “The grass withers and the flowers fade away, but the word of our God stands forever” (Isaiah 40:8)"""

[Michael The Disciple]

What In God's Name Is Happening In Christianity

""""Ok I’m saying it. Because it’s too important not to. What is happening in Christianity? More and more of our outspoken leaders or influencers who were once “faces” of the faith are falling away. And at the same time they are being very vocal and bold about it. Shockingly they still want to influence others (for what purpose?)as they announce that they are leaving the faith. I’ll state my conclusion, then I’ll state some rebuttals to statements I’ve read by some of them. Firstly, I never judge people outside of my faith. Even if they hate religion or Christianity. That is not my place and I have many friends who disagree with my religion and that is 100% fine with me. However, when it comes to people within my faith, there must be a measure of loyalty and friendship and accountability to each other and the Word of God.

My conclusion for the church(all of us Christians): We must STOP making worship leaders and thought leaders or influencers or cool people or “relevant” people the most influential people in Christendom. (And yes that includes people like me!) I’ve been saying for 20 years(and seemed probably quite judgmental to some of my peers) that we are in a dangerous place when the church is looking to 20 year old worship singers as our source of truth. We now have a church culture that learns who God is from singing modern praise songs rather than from the teachings of the Word. I’m not being rude to my worship leader friends (many who would agree with me) in saying that singers and musicians are good at communicating emotion and feeling. We create a moment and a vehicle for God to speak. However, singers are not always the best people to write solid bible truth and doctrine. Sometimes we are too young, too ignorant of scripture, too unaware, or too unconcerned about the purity of scripture and the holiness of the God we are singing to. Have you ever considered the disrespect of singing songs to God that are untrue of His character?

I have a few specific thoughts and rebuttals to statements made by recently disavowed church influencers...first of all, I am stunned that the seemingly most important thing for these leaders who have lost their faith is to make such a bold new stance. Basically saying, “I’ve been living and preaching boldly something for 20 years and led generations of people with my teachings and now I no longer believe it..therefore I’m going to boldly and loudly tell people it was all wrong while I boldly and loudly lead people in to my next truth.” I’m perplexed why they aren’t embarrassed? Humbled? Ashamed, fearful, confused? Why be so eager to continue leading people when you clearly don’t know where you are headed?

My second thought is, why do people act like “being real” covers a multitude of sins? As if someone is courageous simply for sharing virally every thought or dark place. That’s not courageous. It’s cavalier. Have they considered the ramifications? As if they are the harbingers of truth, saying “I used to think one way and practice it and preach it, but now I’ve learned all the new truth and will start practicing and preaching it.” So the influencers become the voice for truth in whatever stage of life and whatever evolution takes place in their thinking.

Thirdly, there is a common thread running through these leaders/influencers that basically says that “no one else is talking about the REAL stuff.” This is just flatly false. I just read today in a renown worship leader’s statement, “How could a God of love send people to hell? No one talks about it.” As if he is the first person to ask this? Brother, you are not that unique. The church has wrestled with this for 1500 years. Literally. Everybody talks about it. Children talk about it in Sunday school. There’s like a billion books written on the topic. Just because you don’t get the answer you want doesn’t mean that we are unwilling to wrestle with it. We wrestle with scripture until we are transformed by the renewing of our minds.

And lastly, and most shocking imo, as these influencers disavow their faith, they always end their statements with their “new insight/new truth” that is basically a regurgitation of Jesus’s words?! It’s truly bizarre and ironic. They’ll say “I’m disavowing my faith but remember, love people, be generous, forgive others”. Ummm, why? That is actually not human nature. No child is ever born and says “I just want to love others before loving myself. I want to turn the other cheek. I want to give my money away to others in need”. Those are bible principles taught by a prophet/Priest/king of kings who wants us to live by a higher standard which is not an earthly standard, but rather the ‘Kingdom of God’ standard. Therefore if Jesus is not the truth and if the Word of God is not absolute, then by preaching Jesus’s teachings you are endorsing the words of a madman. A lunatic who said “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the father except through me.” He also said that he was alive before Abraham, and to see him was to see God because he was one with God. So why then would a disavowed christian leader promote that “generosity is good”? How would you know “what is good” without Jesus’s teachings? And will your ideas of what is “good” be different from year to year based on your experience, culture trends, poplular opinion etc and furthermore will you continue year by year to lead others into your idea of goodness even though it is not absolute? I’m amazed that so many Christians want the benefits of the kingdom of God, but with the caveat that they themselves will be the King.

It is time for the church to rediscover the preeminence of the Word. And to value the teaching of the Word. We need to value truth over feeling. Truth over emotion. And what we are seeing now is the result of the church raising up influencers who did not supremely value truth who have led a generation who also do not believe in the supremacy of truth. And now those disavowed leaders are proudly still leading and influencing boldly AWAY from the truth.

Is it any wonder that some of our disavowed Christian leaders are letting go of the absolute truth of the Bible and subsequently their lives are falling apart? Further and further they are sinking in the sea all the while shouting “now I’ve found the truth! Follow me!!” Brothers and sisters in the faith all around the world, pastors, teachers, worship leaders, influencers...I implore you, please please in your search for relevancy for the gospel, let us NOT find creative ways to shape Gods word into the image of our culture by stifling inconvenient truths. But rather let us hold on even tighter to the anchor of the living Word of God. For He changes NOT. “The grass withers and the flowers fade away, but the word of our God stands forever” (Isaiah 40:8)"""

Amen

[JoeBandy]

What In God's Name Is Happening In Christianity

""""Ok I’m saying it. Because it’s too important not to. What is happening in Christianity? More and more of our outspoken leaders or influencers who were once “faces” of the faith are falling away. And at the same time they are being very vocal and bold about it. Shockingly they still want to influence others (for what purpose?)as they announce that they are leaving the faith. I’ll state my conclusion, then I’ll state some rebuttals to statements I’ve read by some of them. Firstly, I never judge people outside of my faith. Even if they hate religion or Christianity. That is not my place and I have many friends who disagree with my religion and that is 100% fine with me. However, when it comes to people within my faith, there must be a measure of loyalty and friendship and accountability to each other and the Word of God.

My conclusion for the church(all of us Christians): We must STOP making worship leaders and thought leaders or influencers or cool people or “relevant” people the most influential people in Christendom. (And yes that includes people like me!) I’ve been saying for 20 years(and seemed probably quite judgmental to some of my peers) that we are in a dangerous place when the church is looking to 20 year old worship singers as our source of truth. We now have a church culture that learns who God is from singing modern praise songs rather than from the teachings of the Word. I’m not being rude to my worship leader friends (many who would agree with me) in saying that singers and musicians are good at communicating emotion and feeling. We create a moment and a vehicle for God to speak. However, singers are not always the best people to write solid bible truth and doctrine. Sometimes we are too young, too ignorant of scripture, too unaware, or too unconcerned about the purity of scripture and the holiness of the God we are singing to. Have you ever considered the disrespect of singing songs to God that are untrue of His character?

I have a few specific thoughts and rebuttals to statements made by recently disavowed church influencers...first of all, I am stunned that the seemingly most important thing for these leaders who have lost their faith is to make such a bold new stance. Basically saying, “I’ve been living and preaching boldly something for 20 years and led generations of people with my teachings and now I no longer believe it..therefore I’m going to boldly and loudly tell people it was all wrong while I boldly and loudly lead people in to my next truth.” I’m perplexed why they aren’t embarrassed? Humbled? Ashamed, fearful, confused? Why be so eager to continue leading people when you clearly don’t know where you are headed?

My second thought is, why do people act like “being real” covers a multitude of sins? As if someone is courageous simply for sharing virally every thought or dark place. That’s not courageous. It’s cavalier. Have they considered the ramifications? As if they are the harbingers of truth, saying “I used to think one way and practice it and preach it, but now I’ve learned all the new truth and will start practicing and preaching it.” So the influencers become the voice for truth in whatever stage of life and whatever evolution takes place in their thinking.

Thirdly, there is a common thread running through these leaders/influencers that basically says that “no one else is talking about the REAL stuff.” This is just flatly false. I just read today in a renown worship leader’s statement, “How could a God of love send people to hell? No one talks about it.” As if he is the first person to ask this? Brother, you are not that unique. The church has wrestled with this for 1500 years. Literally. Everybody talks about it. Children talk about it in Sunday school. There’s like a billion books written on the topic. Just because you don’t get the answer you want doesn’t mean that we are unwilling to wrestle with it. We wrestle with scripture until we are transformed by the renewing of our minds.

And lastly, and most shocking imo, as these influencers disavow their faith, they always end their statements with their “new insight/new truth” that is basically a regurgitation of Jesus’s words?! It’s truly bizarre and ironic. They’ll say “I’m disavowing my faith but remember, love people, be generous, forgive others”. Ummm, why? That is actually not human nature. No child is ever born and says “I just want to love others before loving myself. I want to turn the other cheek. I want to give my money away to others in need”. Those are bible principles taught by a prophet/Priest/king of kings who wants us to live by a higher standard which is not an earthly standard, but rather the ‘Kingdom of God’ standard. Therefore if Jesus is not the truth and if the Word of God is not absolute, then by preaching Jesus’s teachings you are endorsing the words of a madman. A lunatic who said “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the father except through me.” He also said that he was alive before Abraham, and to see him was to see God because he was one with God. So why then would a disavowed christian leader promote that “generosity is good”? How would you know “what is good” without Jesus’s teachings? And will your ideas of what is “good” be different from year to year based on your experience, culture trends, poplular opinion etc and furthermore will you continue year by year to lead others into your idea of goodness even though it is not absolute? I’m amazed that so many Christians want the benefits of the kingdom of God, but with the caveat that they themselves will be the King.

It is time for the church to rediscover the preeminence of the Word. And to value the teaching of the Word. We need to value truth over feeling. Truth over emotion. And what we are seeing now is the result of the church raising up influencers who did not supremely value truth who have led a generation who also do not believe in the supremacy of truth. And now those disavowed leaders are proudly still leading and influencing boldly AWAY from the truth.

Is it any wonder that some of our disavowed Christian leaders are letting go of the absolute truth of the Bible and subsequently their lives are falling apart? Further and further they are sinking in the sea all the while shouting “now I’ve found the truth! Follow me!!” Brothers and sisters in the faith all around the world, pastors, teachers, worship leaders, influencers...I implore you, please please in your search for relevancy for the gospel, let us NOT find creative ways to shape Gods word into the image of our culture by stifling inconvenient truths. But rather let us hold on even tighter to the anchor of the living Word of God. For He changes NOT. “The grass withers and the flowers fade away, but the word of our God stands forever” (Isaiah 40:8)"""

WOW!!!! Truth over feelings. Truth over emotions. One of the best things I have read on AFF!!! This needs a thread of its own.

[Bro Flame]

This about Marty Sampson shouldn't shock any of us here, really. When measured against Biblical and AFF standards, Hillsong was long backslid, went Charismatic, exploited women, watered down the Gospel, etc.

A worship leader "loosing his faith" shouldn't be any more shocking.

[n david]

My favorite quotes:

""We are in a dangerous place when the church is looking to 20 year old worship singers as our source of truth. We now have a church culture that learns who God is from singing modern praise songs rather than from the teachings of the Word.

Singers are not always the best people to write solid bible truth and doctrine.""
Truth! I don't see this as big of an issue in Apo/Pente churches as in mainstream and especially mega churches. And honestly, I don't place all the blame on these young worship leaders. I blame the Pastors who, in their desire to make the church they Pastor well known, they elevate these WL's so the music is known more than the preached Word of God.

""It is time for the church to rediscover the preeminence of the Word. And to value the teaching of the Word. We need to value truth over feeling. Truth over emotion.""
AMEN! Once you allow any doubt of the Word of God, or put anything over the Word of God, you will fall. You will fail. The popular thing today is "my truth." I see it a lot with politics and social justice millennials -- "I'm speaking my truth." It's not OUR truth, it's GOD'S truth. And God's truth must be valued over emotions and feelings.

""Is it any wonder that some of our disavowed Christian leaders are letting go of the absolute truth of the Bible and subsequently their lives are falling apart? Further and further they are sinking in the sea all the while shouting “now I’ve found the truth! Follow me!!” Brothers and sisters in the faith all around the world, pastors, teachers, worship leaders, influencers...I implore you, please please in your search for relevancy for the gospel, let us NOT find creative ways to shape Gods word into the image of our culture by stifling inconvenient truths. But rather let us hold on even tighter to the anchor of the living Word of God. For He changes NOT. “The grass withers and the flowers fade away, but the word of our God stands forever” (Isaiah 40:8)""
"In your search for relevancy for the gospel..." That's the issue right there. They're trying so hard to transform the Gospel to unbelievers instead of transforming unbelievers to the Gospel.

""Let us hold on even tighter to the anchor of the living Word of God. For He changes NOT.""

Amen.

[mfblume]

Apostolics never lose their faith and fall away? They teach the solid word of God?

PS Mike I could have addressed this to any of us in this thread including myself.

These guys are in a whole different category, bound to lose faith... Only rhyming words and no deep word and teaching. There are people like that in groups that have deep word . But a whole lifestyle of no deep word...

[diakonos]

These guys are in a whole different category, bound to lose faith... Only rhyming words and no deep word and teaching. There are people like that in groups that have deep word . But a whole lifestyle of no deep word...

Good point

[Evang.Benincasa]

These guys are in a whole different category, bound to lose faith... Only rhyming words and no deep word and teaching. There are people like that in groups that have deep word . But a whole lifestyle of no deep word...

:thumbsup

[JamesGlen]

And this modern day world of Christianity has been steadily putting what they’ve deemed as “worship leading”, above apologetics. Priorities out of alignment.

[diakonos]

And this modern day world of Christianity has been steadily putting what they’ve deemed as “worship leading”, above apologetics. Priorities out of alignment.

No one mentioned that they wear skinny jeans, full of piercings, and covered in tattoos.

[JamesGlen]

No one mentioned that they wear skinny jeans, full of piercings, and covered in tattoos.

What is funny is that while you brought that up, I actually just ALMOST posted that many modern day “Christians” make it hard for the hells angels club to stand out as bad dudes! What a mess...

[Evang.Benincasa]

What is funny is that while you brought that up, I actually just ALMOST posted that many modern day “Christians” make it hard for the hells angels club to stand out as bad dudes! What a mess...

Well, with the whole "standards arguments" why would subculture attire be verboten? I have asked this in other threads, but seriously, where does the Bible teach against men wearing mascara, nail polish, skinny jeans, or tattoos.
Leviticus 19:28 is clearly speaking of a religious ceremonial cutting as in Deuteronomy 14:1. It was the cutting as the prophets of Baal and Elijah 1st Kings 18:24-29. So, while everyone goes down in flames over Deuteronomy 22:5, they should think about how far down the rabbit's hole they are going to go. No Bible against men wearing nose rings or giant loops in their ears. If you think what we are seeing now in the churches are side show freakish, just think how bad it will become in yeas to come.

[JamesGlen]

Well, with the whole "standards arguments" why would subculture attire be verboten? I have asked this in other threads, but seriously, where does the Bible teach against men wearing mascara, nail polish, skinny jeans, or tattoos.
Leviticus 19:28 is clearly speaking of a religious ceremonial cutting as in Deuteronomy 14:1. It was the cutting as the prophets of Baal and Elijah 1st Kings 18:24-29. So, while everyone goes down in flames over Deuteronomy 22:5, they should think about how far down the rabbit's hole they are going to go. No Bible against men wearing nose rings or giant loops in their ears. If you think what we are seeing now in the churches are side show freakish, just think how bad it will become in yeas to come.


Your comments a few weeks back about the coffee Bible study led by the guy w mascara and fingernail polish kinda put me to thinking on relative things......my sister attends a mega church AOG. After reading your post I asked her about having a guy w mascara, nail polish, and a sissy hair bun teaching her kids in SS class...she said well we have guys w big earring holes. I said have they been in the church a while? She said yes, and that as long as their heart is right w God then it’d be ok w her for them to teach her kids...(and said some is culture related...whatever)
Ugh.
See, the deal is, right after you posted that, my same sisters husband (they all attend the AOG mega)took his 15 year old daughter(my niece)to get a small cross tattoo behind her ear, and they were ok w it. He even wants to get another tattoo himself(has 1or2). Last year she and I sorta discussed/locked over asking ahead of time about him drinking a beer or two when we came over for family events. They have no prob w that either. I said how does is your church teaching on that and she said they don’t want their teachers drinking alcohol. Then she said if she ever quit her church teaching position she could consider drinking at that time, like her husband(doesn’t teach) does now and then when cooking on the grill.

So then, the beer, tattoos, ear frisbees, heck probly even tackle box face for all I can tell, is acceptable.
So back to the pastors having some wiggle room, yes I see what you’re meaning. I think they need to be cautious and wise about how they approach it, but things need addressed.

Kinda funny thing...a few years after i “got in”(probly 15-18 years ago), I asked our now retired pastor how come he couldn’t preach against guys wearing pink shirts?( I had been to men’s conference and the in thing was guys wearing pink). He said he couldn’t hardly do that... I said alright.
I still think guy should not wear pink. But looking back I’ve seen him wear a light pink a few times, and he’s all man brick laying break your hand w a handshake carpenter mans man...so, I guess if he wants to.
I still hate’m :D

Hope this post is understandable...it’s late kinda rambling. Turning in.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Your comments a few weeks back about the coffee Bible study led by the guy w mascara and fingernail polish kinda put me to thinking on relative things......my sister attends a mega church AOG. After reading your post I asked her about having a guy w mascara, nail polish, and a sissy hair bun teaching her kids in SS class...she said well we have guys w big earring holes. I said have they been in the church a while? She said yes, and that as long as their heart is right w God then it’d be ok w her for them to teach her kids...(and said some is culture related...whatever)
Ugh.
See, the deal is, right after you posted that, my same sisters husband (they all attend the AOG mega)took his 15 year old daughter(my niece)to get a small cross tattoo behind her ear, and they were ok w it. He even wants to get another tattoo himself(has 1or2). Last year she and I sorta discussed/locked over asking ahead of time about him drinking a beer or two when we came over for family events. They have no prob w that either. I said how does is your church teaching on that and she said they don’t want their teachers drinking alcohol. Then she said if she ever quit her church teaching position she could consider drinking at that time, like her husband(doesn’t teach) does now and then when cooking on the grill.

So then, the beer, tattoos, ear frisbees, heck probly even tackle box face for all I can tell, is acceptable.
So back to the pastors having some wiggle room, yes I see what you’re meaning. I think they need to be cautious and wise about how they approach it, but things need addressed.

Kinda funny thing...a few years after i “got in”(probly 15-18 years ago), I asked our now retired pastor how come he couldn’t preach against guys wearing pink shirts?( I had been to men’s conference and the in thing was guys wearing pink). He said he couldn’t hardly do that... I said alright.
I still think guy should not wear pink. But looking back I’ve seen him wear a light pink a few times, and he’s all man brick laying break your hand w a handshake carpenter mans man...so, I guess if he wants to.
I still hate’m :D

Hope this post is understandable...it’s late kinda rambling. Turning in.

Your post is totally understandable.

Deuteronomy 22:5 and all the arguments (even within our own ranks) made me consider where this was heading. There was a Trinitarian female pastor from our area who has full sleeve tattoos, a pierced nose septum, saved side of her head. She believes in One God non Trinitarian, baptizes in Jesus name, she is lazy on infilling of the Holy Ghost. While she has some good theology, I still call her Pastor Yakuza Tsukuyomi. She laughs, but I still can't accept the Vampirella look. Yes, she has sat down in Bible studies with me and we have had some long discussions on how she looks is opposite of how the Hebrew looked even in the first century. Paganism was despised, in all its forms. Come out from among her and be ye separate. The one woman is clothed with that which is natural, while the other women was clothed as a harlot. The attire of a harlot was recognizable hene it was titled "attire" of a "harlot."

In history, past to the present. Tattoos represent criminals, the dark side of society. I ask her young ministers with their top knot if they are actually samurai of Pastor Yakuza Tsukuyomi. They don't laugh, but were is the sanctity, there is none. Just a circus train wreck of churchianity. Where you can't tell the saint from the sinner, sooner or later the saint blends into the sinner. You can never win the world with the world. The church has worked hard in that area to be just like the world to win her, but she is a scorpion, she will turn right around when we least expect it and ram the stinger right through us. Watch be vigilant, because the adversary is waiting to replace the true church with make believe.