The virus and Be Apostolic??

[Truthseeker]

Many churches are canceling services due to the virus and telling people to stay home if sick. Would the apostles do that?

What happened to Be Apostolic?

[shag]

Our shadows don’t heal people?

[Truthseeker]

Our shadows don’t heal people?



True. but does if any man sick call for elders still apply?

[shag]

True. but does if any man sick call for elders still apply?

I thought the same after posting...

Sure should.

[Truthseeker]

I thought the same after posting...

Sure should.

I know we can't duplicate the apostles, but really, are we that fearful and lacking of faith that we stop our services or tell the sick to stay home?

[Barb]

I know we can't duplicate the apostles, but really, are we that fearful and lacking of faith that we stop our services or tell the sick to stay home?


What in the world does being Apostolic have to do with using wisdom and complying with an executive order from a state governor about restricting crowd size?

FOR THE RECORD: I am not aware from my vantage point of ANY churches stopping services because of fear or lack of faith in God to cover and heal.

It DOES seem prudent to me to err on the side of caution for congregations that exceed 250 people. And honestly, I have always been of the mind that if someone is sick (hacking cough, sneezing, high fever, etc.) for the sake of everyone around them, STAY HOME!!!

Bro. Raymond Woodward in NB wrote this to the church he pastors…

“Although the government has only made a recommendation at this point, we are choosing to comply because we feel the Church should be part of the solution, not part of the problem. The Bible teaches us to always cooperate with those in authority as long as the government does not infringe on biblical mandates.”

SO… if a church has 35 members, this does not apply to them. But if that house of God with 35 souls feels they ought to side on the side of protecting the people, it just doesn’t seem wrong to me.

What IS distressing is to come here and see us trying to put the household of faith on a balancing scale of who is Apostolic enough. If those who disagree with the pastors would go to some of their brethren and speak to THEM about it, or bother going to their FB pages to read WHY they are doing it, they might come away with a different outlook.

It has been my experience that sometimes we can't see the others person's point of view until the chickens come home to roost...

Personal story... when I was found to have Stage Three uterine and ovarian cancer I has someone close to me say that they would NEVER have chemo! They made me feel as if I didn't trust God and was living in fear of dying...

But then a year or so later it happened to her... it was a totally different story then. I never would ever say anything to her about it, but I will always remember this incident as a picture of how we can't really say what we will do in a situation until we are faced with it.

As a body let's pray for each other...

[Truthseeker]

What in the world does being Apostolic have to do with using wisdom and complying with an executive order from a state governor about restricting crowd size?

FOR THE RECORD: I am not aware from my vantage point of ANY churches stopping services because of fear or lack of faith in God to cover and heal.

It DOES seem prudent to me to err on the side of caution for congregations that exceed 250 people. And honestly, I have always been of the mind that if someone is sick (hacking cough, sneezing, high fever, etc.) for the sake of everyone around them, STAY HOME!!!

Bro. Raymond Woodward in NB wrote this to the church he pastors…

“Although the government has only made a recommendation at this point, we are choosing to comply because we feel the Church should be part of the solution, not part of the problem. The Bible teaches us to always cooperate with those in authority as long as the government does not infringe on biblical mandates.”

SO… if a church has 35 members, this does not apply to them. But if that house of God with 35 souls feels they ought to side on the side of protecting the people, it just doesn’t seem wrong to me.

What IS distressing is to come here and see us trying to put the household of faith on a balancing scale of who is Apostolic enough. If those who disagree with the pastors would go to some of their brethren and speak to THEM about it, or bother going to their FB pages to read WHY they are doing it, they might come away with a different outlook.

It has been my experience that sometimes we can't see the others person's point of view until the chickens come home to roost...

Personal story... when I was found to have Stage Three uterine and ovarian cancer I has someone close to me say that they would NEVER have chemo! They made me feel as if I didn't trust God and was living in fear of dying...

But then a year or so later it happened to her... it was a totally different story then. I never would ever say anything to her about it, but I will always remember this incident as a picture of how we can't really say what we will do in a situation until we are faced with it.

As a body let's pray for each other...


Should we stop preaching God's protection then?

[Truthseeker]

What in the world does being Apostolic have to do with using wisdom and complying with an executive order from a state governor about restricting crowd size?

FOR THE RECORD: I am not aware from my vantage point of ANY churches stopping services because of fear or lack of faith in God to cover and heal.

It DOES seem prudent to me to err on the side of caution for congregations that exceed 250 people. And honestly, I have always been of the mind that if someone is sick (hacking cough, sneezing, high fever, etc.) for the sake of everyone around them, STAY HOME!!!

Bro. Raymond Woodward in NB wrote this to the church he pastors…

“Although the government has only made a recommendation at this point, we are choosing to comply because we feel the Church should be part of the solution, not part of the problem. The Bible teaches us to always cooperate with those in authority as long as the government does not infringe on biblical mandates.”

SO… if a church has 35 members, this does not apply to them. But if that house of God with 35 souls feels they ought to side on the side of protecting the people, it just doesn’t seem wrong to me.

What IS distressing is to come here and see us trying to put the household of faith on a balancing scale of who is Apostolic enough. If those who disagree with the pastors would go to some of their brethren and speak to THEM about it, or bother going to their FB pages to read WHY they are doing it, they might come away with a different outlook.

It has been my experience that sometimes we can't see the others person's point of view until the chickens come home to roost...

Personal story... when I was found to have Stage Three uterine and ovarian cancer I has someone close to me say that they would NEVER have chemo! They made me feel as if I didn't trust God and was living in fear of dying...

But then a year or so later it happened to her... it was a totally different story then. I never would ever say anything to her about it, but I will always remember this incident as a picture of how we can't really say what we will do in a situation until we are faced with it.

As a body let's pray for each other...


Should we stop preaching God's protection then?

Back to my question, do you think the apostles would cancel a gathering or tell the sick to stay home?

[Sister Alvear]

Some of the cities of Brazil have mandatory orders not to have church services...

[Barb]

Should we stop preaching God's protection then?

Back to my question, do you think the apostles would cancel a gathering or tell the sick to stay home?

To your first question, absolutely not!!! If you have bothered to read any of my posts on this forum you already know that is not what I believe...

But there is wisdom to be had in all things. I don't pray for protection from the Lord and walk out into traffic on the freeway. The Bible doesn't say to drink poison because the Lord will deliver you... it tells us IF we do, God is able.

This is just common sense...

So what would the Apostles do? I don't have a clue, and respectfully, neither do you. :)

You know, TS, you didn't comment on one thing I posted, just jumped back into a question none of us can answer.

So as I have other things to do today, and as you and I are not going to agree on this, let's leave it at this...

God bless you and your family through this and every part of life. I mean this sincerely, TS... if you pastor, I pray that the people you shepherd stay well and do an amazing work for the Lord. I'm asking the Lord to set a hedge around His people... as He protected so many on 9/11 who should have been in harm’s way, and has kept us all through so many times of sickness, disease and near death experiences, may the hand of the Lord keep us in His tender care!!!

Take care, and please pray for us here… we are walking by faith and not by sight!!!

[Barb]

Some of the cities of Brazil have mandatory orders not to have church services...

One of our elders, Bishop Roland Baker just returned from Chile... we are praying for you all.

[Truthseeker]

To your first question, absolutely not!!! If you have bothered to read any of my posts on this forum you already know that is not what I believe...

But there is wisdom to be had in all things. I don't pray for protection from the Lord and walk out into traffic on the freeway. The Bible doesn't say to drink poison because the Lord will deliver you... it tells us IF we do, God is able.

This is just common sense...

So what would the Apostles do? I don't have a clue, and respectfully, neither do you. :)

You know, TS, you didn't comment on one thing I posted, just jumped back into a question none of us can answer.

So as I have other things to do today, and as you and I are not going to agree on this, let's leave it at this...

God bless you and your family through this and every part of life. I mean this sincerely, TS... if you pastor, I pray that the people you shepherd stay well and do an amazing work for the Lord. I'm asking the Lord to set a hedge around His people... as He protected so many on 9/11 who should have been in harm’s way, and has kept us all through so many times of sickness, disease and near death experiences, may the hand of the Lord keep us in His tender care!!!

Take care, and please pray for us here… we are walking by faith and not by sight!!!.


Yeah, didnt have time to all your points. Maybe later.

[shag]

Seems it’s not always Gods will to physically heal every time we anoint and pray, or he always would.

[Barb]

.


Yeah, didnt have time to all your points. Maybe later.

That's okay, sir... no need. Take care...

[hometown guy]

Canceling schools and work all around me in fear of passing a virus around and then 4K people show up to Costco .... if anyone is canceling church over this they better be staying locked up in their house and not skipping church yet going out doing their normal routine.

[hometown guy]

I don’t get how some people are so passive aggressive on this forum...

[diakonos]

I’m going to church tomorrow to have pancakes with the pastor.

[diakonos]

I don’t get how some people are so passive aggressive on this forum...

Really... :thumbsup

[Truthseeker]

I don’t get how some people are so passive aggressive on this forum...

How does that relate to this thread?

[Sister Alvear]

One of our elders, Bishop Roland Baker just returned from Chile... we are praying for you all.


Thanks so very much.

[Scott Pitta]

When we have snow events, like blizzards, we cancel church. The rule is if school is cancelled, so it church. That way, members can watch the news to see if there is church.

Doing so saves lots of phone calls to members and eliminates confusion.

An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure.

[hometown guy]

When we have snow events, like blizzards, we cancel church. The rule is if school is cancelled, so it church. That way, members can watch the news to see if there is church.

Doing so saves lots of phone calls to members and eliminates confusion.

An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure.

We don’t watch the news.. or anything else on TV/phones ect

[Evang.Benincasa]

Many churches are canceling services due to the virus and telling people to stay home if sick. Would the apostles do that?

What happened to Be Apostolic?

Sounds like they’re busy figuring out how to wear a prayer shawl, and hit a few notes on the shofar.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Our shadows don’t heal people?

I wouldn’t be too proud of that fact.

[Evang.Benincasa]

I know we can't duplicate the apostles, but really, are we that fearful and lacking of faith that we stop our services or tell the sick to stay home?

Bro, if you KNOW you can’t duplicate the apostles (or even hope to try) then there is your answer for not being Apostolic.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Some of the cities of Brazil have mandatory orders not to have church services...

The Antichrist would be proud.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Seems it’s not always Gods will to physically heal every time we anoint and pray, or he always would.


Sweet Jesus, I hope I don’t fall under that chariot. In that case I’m going to turn my face to the wall. Then drench it down with snot and tears.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Canceling schools and work all around me in fear of passing a virus around and then 4K people show up to Costco .... if anyone is canceling church over this they better be staying locked up in their house and not skipping church yet going out doing their normal routine.

No doubt! Bravo!

[Truthseeker]

Bro, if you KNOW you can’t duplicate the apostles (or even hope to try) then there is your answer for not being Apostolic.


Have you ever seen healings by your shadow?

The apostles had a specific mission to go into all the world to preach to close out the end of that world. After decades of being in church I have never come across a minister to their level, not even close Not everyone had the "the signs of an apostle " it was more than a title in a pastor's office.

[MawMaw]

No offense to anyone, but, if I can get out and go to Walmart and other places of business where people are everywhere, I don't think I should call off or not attend church services! Just my perspective. If you're sick on the other hand, PLEASE, do stay home away from others until you're well. Flu bugs and viruses of all sorts float around daily. Some will get sick and some won't. Most will get better and some will die. Prayers and love to all of you.

[Esaias]

Remember when sick people and shut-ins were visited by ministers and brothers and sisters who would check on them, pray for them, pray with them, and anoint them with oil? And even sometimes make chicken soup for them?

Ah, but no, the Telescreen has told us Big Brother says stay away...

[Evang.Benincasa]

Have you ever seen healings by your shadow?

Oh, that's right, Peter only had the healing shadow power. Yeah, better off sitting on a pew watching some nut teach on wearing a holy towel around his neck.


The apostles had a specific mission to go into all the world to preach to close out the end of that world.

Show me where it says in the New Testament that they had special powers?
Church of Christ teaches that the apostles were special and had special powers which no one can have in these times. Like speaking in tongues, have you done that lately?


After decades of being in church I have never come across a minister to their level, not even close

Bro? I can't believe you posted this. Man, you are the guy who is in a church that teaches on wearing prayer shawls? But you wonder why you haven't seen anything apostolic? Really?


Not everyone had the "the signs of an apostle " it was more than a title in a pastor's office.

Oh, so the apostles were the only ones who had superpowers. When the last one dies then no more superpowers and no more title of apostle? Sounds like Campbellite doctrine. John 14:12 has Jesus telling His followers, past and present that they will do greater works . From the looks of this thread, your faith has some fouled spark plugs, and needs a tune up. You don't believe, and if you don't believe it can happen then my man, it will never happen. If you are a doubter, then it can happen right in front of you and you will miss it. I think you been in religion too long, and now you are developing an ecclesiastical rigor mortis.

[TakingDominion]

Remember when sick people and shut-ins were visited by ministers and brothers and sisters who would check on them, pray for them, pray with them, and anoint them with oil? And even sometimes make chicken soup for them?

Ah, but no, the Telescreen has told us Big Brother says stay away...

I know of many preachers and saints that still visit shut ins. I've even done some visiting of my own as a guest evangelist.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Remember when sick people and shut-ins were visited by ministers and brothers and sisters who would check on them, pray for them, pray with them, and anoint them with oil? And even sometimes make chicken soup for them?

Ah, but no, the Telescreen has told us Big Brother says stay away...

Praise Jesus for house churches. :thumbsup

[Evang.Benincasa]

I know of many preachers and saints that still visit shut ins. I've even done some visiting of my own as a guest evangelist.

Amen, keep praying for the contagious they will thank you for it, and Jesus will love you for it.

[shag]

I have pondered a question… If we as born again believers have the same ability that Jesus gave the 12 apostles in Matt. 10:1, why are we as believers told (in James) to call for the elders of the church and have them anoint with oil, for to heal the sick? (If we (or our shadows) can lay hands on the sick ourselves and they will be healed anyway).

[jediwill83]

And folks...Im not advocating pro or con as far as church attendance goes during this time...Im just saying that the church should be able to roll with and be flexible and not fall apart when life gets weird. God is able to keep and sustain.


In EMS I was exposed to all kinds of mess...aids, TB, Hep A-C, you name it...God kept His hand on me and I never got sick other than some bad cold and allergy mess.


This is a great outreach moment and opportunity for the church...I hope it is taken advantage of...maybe society could be changed for the better due to choices that lay within our reach...

[Evang.Benincasa]

I have pondered a question… If we as born again believers have the same ability that Jesus gave the 12 apostles in Matt. 10:1, why are we as believers told (in James) to call for the elders of the church and have them anoint with oil, for to heal the sick? (If we (or our shadows) can lay hands on the sick ourselves and they will be healed anyway).

Well, let’s go even further than that, why do we have to pray?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Elders are the elders for a reason. The church came together to pray for an elder when he was in jail. I think the problem is when some who aren’t attach to a church family with church government. They don’t really congregate, or are accountable to anyone. Then since they see no need for church ministry, thinking they are cool alone. Then why the need to reach out to a God called group of ministers. Since we are all Metahumans and able to leap tall buildings at a single bound. Sometimes people live under God’s mercy so long the mistake it for God’s blessing.

[Evang.Benincasa]

https://informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/covid-19-coronavirus-infographic-datapack/

[Truthseeker]

Oh, that's right, Peter only had the healing shadow power. Yeah, better off sitting on a pew watching some nut teach on wearing a holy towel around his neck.



I noticed you didn't answer.



Show me where it says in the New Testament that they had special powers?
Church of Christ teaches that the apostles were special and had special powers which no one can have in these times. Like speaking in tongues, have you done that lately?













Bro? I can't believe you posted this. Man, you are the guy who is in a church that teaches on wearing prayer shawls? But you wonder why you haven't seen anything apostolic? Really?


No church is operating at the level of the signs and wonders performed by the apostles, not even yours, prayer shawl or not.
Not that it matters, but it's not taught as something one should do when they pray. I don't see the need but they look at it as a prayer tool.




Oh, so the apostles were the only ones who had superpowers. When the last one dies then no more superpowers and no more title of apostle? Sounds like Campbellite doctrine. John 14:12 has Jesus telling His followers, past and present that they will do greater works . From the looks of this thread, your faith has some fouled spark plugs, and needs a tune up. You don't believe, and if you don't believe it can happen then my man, it will never happen. If you are a doubter, then it can happen right in front of you and you will miss it. I think you been in religion too long, and now you are developing an ecclesiastical rigor mortis.


You're too inclined to jump to conclusions and assumptions, but that's your MO.

I believe in miracles and healing etc....but have never seen anyone operate at the level of the apostles. The apostles indeed had a specific mission. Being a preterist, you should know this. They had a special empowerment "signs of an apostle". That doesn't take away from miracles and healings that can and do occur today.

[Evang.Benincasa]

You're too inclined to jump to conclusions and assumptions, but that's your MO.

I believe in miracles and healing etc....but have never seen anyone operate at the level of the apostles. The apostles indeed had a specific mission. Being a preterist, you should know this. They had a special empowerment "signs of an apostle". That doesn't take away from miracles and healings that can and do occur today.

I didn’t jump to any conclusions. I guess I’m a different than you. While I’ve never had the opportunity to see a shadow heal. I seen mind blowing miracles. How about an empty eye socket with just the muscle in the hole get filled with an eyeball? Jesus did it once with spit and mud, this Brother was just praying with the man to receive sight. I guess you need to work on your Preterism. Because if it is written in the book and they did it, then you can bet your granddads camaro that we can do it. Work on the Faith bro, don’t doubt.

Another thing, whats your MO?

[Truthseeker]

I didn’t jump to any conclusions. I guess I’m a different than you. While I’ve never had the opportunity to see a shadow heal. I seen mind blowing miracles. How about an empty eye socket with just the muscle in the hole get filled with an eyeball? Jesus did it once with spit and mud, this Brother was just praying with the man to receive sight. I guess you need to work on your Preterism. Because if it is written in the book and they did it, then you can bet your granddads camaro that we can do it. Work on the Faith bro, don’t doubt.

Another thing, whats your MO?


Once again, I know miracles happen. No denying that here. Your're not grasping what I'm saying.

[shag]

I didn’t jump to any conclusions. I guess I’m a different than you. While I’ve never had the opportunity to see a shadow heal. I seen mind blowing miracles. How about an empty eye socket with just the muscle in the hole get filled with an eyeball? Jesus did it once with spit and mud, this Brother was just praying with the man to receive sight. I guess you need to work on your Preterism. Because if it is written in the book and they did it, then you can bet your granddads camaro that we can do it. Work on the Faith bro, don’t doubt.



Another thing, whats your MO?

We?
To remain on topic I’ll overlook things like Jesus and Elijah, Moses parting of the red seas, Joshua making the sun stand still...etc
and stick with the apostles.


Regarding Matt. 10:1 Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out impure spirits and to heal EVERY disease and sickness.

Respectfully, do you believe that you have this same authority, that you can drive out impure spirits and heal EVERY disease and sickness?

And do you believe the apostles had the “ability” to heal at their own will or desire to, based on that authority?

Truly, signs do follow believers, but are their impartation subject to the believer, to heal at will, anytime and EVERY time they see fit?

If so, why are our apostolic churches full of handicap, cancerous sickly people, (many of which are pastors, their wives, their children etc)?

[Truthseeker]

We?
To remain on topic I’ll overlook things like Jesus and Elijah, Moses parting of the red seas, Joshua making the sun stand still...etc
and stick with the apostles.


Regarding Matt. 10:1 Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out impure spirits and to heal EVERY disease and sickness.

Respectfully, do you believe that you have this same authority, that you can drive out impure spirits and heal EVERY disease and sickness?

And do you believe the apostles had the “ability” to heal at their own will or desire to, based on that authority?

Truly, signs do follow believers, but are their impartation subject to the believer, to heal at will, anytime they see fit?

If so, why are our apostolic churches full of handicap, cancerous sickly people, many of which are (pastors, their wives, their children etc)?


Yep. Paul told the Corinthian church that the signs of an apostle was done among them "signs, wonders and mighty works " Why was it labeled signs of an apostle? Why not signs of a believer? Becaue they had specific function during a specific time. That doesnt negate the fact supernatural stuff is still happening today. Z

[Nicodemus1968]

John 14:12
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Bro. Truthseeker,
We have access to the same healings and miracles the Lord did as he walked this earth. As well as you and EB I haven’t seen a person healed from the shadow, but that doesn’t mean it cant happen.

James 4:2-3
Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. [3] Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

Let’s ask God to work in the realm of miracles, if we ask is not God faithful to grant us our request?

[shag]

John 14:12
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Bro. Truthseeker,
We have access to the same healings and miracles the Lord did as he walked this earth. As well as you and EB I haven’t seen a person healed from the shadow, but that doesn’t mean it cant happen.

James 4:2-3
Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. [3] Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

Let’s ask God to work in the realm of miracles, if we ask is not God faithful to grant us our request?


Do you believe that according to Matthew chapter 10, the apostles had the ability to lay hands on someone anytime they so desired, and they would be healed?

What is your opinion on why there are so many sicknesses and diseases in our oneness apostolic churches nowadays?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Yep. Paul told the Corinthian church that the signs of an apostle was done among them "signs, wonders and mighty works " Why was it labeled signs of an apostle? Why not signs of a believer? Becaue they had specific function during a specific time. That doesnt negate the fact supernatural stuff is still happening today. Z

2 Corinthians 12:12? Bro, Paul was talking about his church planting work, which included signs and miracles. His main point was his perseverance in building the churches in Asia Minor which the "super apostles" who were just coming around to take up a collection. Let me ask you something if someone told you they had terminal cancer, they had three month to live? They weren't too cool on the doctor route.What would you tell them?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Do you believe that according to Matthew chapter 10, the apostles had the ability to lay hands on someone anytime they so desired, and they would be healed?

What is your opinion on why there are so many sicknesses and diseases in our oneness apostolic churches nowadays?

They must be your kind of folks? Honestly, no offense, but that is the only way I can answer you. Jesus said mustard seed faith, and Hoss, I hear no faith in these posts.

[Evang.Benincasa]

We?
To remain on topic I’ll overlook things like Jesus and Elijah, Moses parting of the red seas, Joshua making the sun stand still...etc
and stick with the apostles.


Regarding Matt. 10:1 Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out impure spirits and to heal EVERY disease and sickness.

Respectfully, do you believe that you have this same authority, that you can drive out impure spirits and heal EVERY disease and sickness?

And do you believe the apostles had the “ability” to heal at their own will or desire to, based on that authority?

Truly, signs do follow believers, but are their impartation subject to the believer, to heal at will, anytime and EVERY time they see fit?

If so, why are our apostolic churches full of handicap, cancerous sickly people, (many of which are pastors, their wives, their children etc)?

I had a debate with a Rabbi who wanted to prove Paul was not an apostle. He brought up the same thing about Paul, and claimed what you posted. So, let me ask you this question? Why couldn't Paul heal Epaphroditus Philippians 2:25? Why couldn't he heal Trophimus 2 Timothy 4:20? Why did Paul give holistic advise to Timothy because of his stomach? It's like you are with the unchurched who believe these guys were wizards, and warlocks who can perform magic on people to bring healings, without the persons faith as the main activator. Jesus couldn't do many miracles in His own town because of THEIR lack of faith. Good grief

[Truthseeker]

John 14:12
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Bro. Truthseeker,
We have access to the same healings and miracles the Lord did as he walked this earth. As well as you and EB I haven’t seen a person healed from the shadow, but that doesn’t mean it cant happen.

James 4:2-3
Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. [3] Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

Let’s ask God to work in the realm of miracles, if we ask is not God faithful to grant us our request?


Not denying miracles happen. That's not the issue

[Truthseeker]

2 Corinthians 12:12? Bro, Paul was talking about his church planting work, which included signs and miracles. His main point was his perseverance in building the churches in Asia Minor which the "super apostles" who were just coming around to take up a collection. Let me ask you something if someone told you they had terminal cancer, they had three month to live? They weren't too cool on the doctor route.What would you tell them?


I would try to encourage their faith and believe with them.

[shag]

They must be your kind of folks? Honestly, no offense, but that is the only way I can answer you. Jesus said mustard seed faith, and Hoss, I hear no faith in these posts.

A must seed of faith, brother.
Have you ever held a mustard seed in your hand?
If Jesus were to mean just a little amount of faith, could he use a mustard seed as an example, or would there be something better to give a good visual of small amount, than that of a mustard seed?


Regarding, “my kind of folks”:
Recently, a visiting minister told everyone in our congregation that if they stood up, by faith God would heal them.

IE of just one, My pastors wife still remains in her wheelchair. (Actually she has been prayed for and anointed with oil several times by several ministers, praying the prayer of faith for her healing). According to your post, it’s because of her lack of faith, no?
So my question to you, my brother in Christ is, did everyone including the minister, (and her) lack faith even as small as a mustard seed of faith, that Jesus said it’s all it takes?


And with this kind of faith, (surely a mustard seeds worth?) why is there still so many diseases and sicknesses in our apostolic churches?


And again I ask, based on Matt. 10, do you believe the apostles had the “ability” to heal at their own will or desire to, based on that authority?
This seems important to answer.



FTR, as I stated, I do believe miracles follow them that believe, when it is God’s will to heal. And it is NOT always Gods will to heal, when someone prays. It seems you would disagree with that.
“Whatever we ask according to His will, He will do it”. :thumbsup


There seems to be a quandary that apostolics have boxed themselves into regarding “we have the same healing power/ability as the apostles”, because they could heal EVERY disease, EVERY time, and we apostolics can’t, or “we” would be doing it. You would be doing it.


Back to another question of pondering, if we as believers all have the power to heal the sick at will, why do we need to call on the elders of the church to annoint with oil, if we “have the goods” to do it?

[Evang.Benincasa]

I would try to encourage their faith and believe with them.

That's good because as Jesus said, as your faith be it unto you. Every single situations my family and I have been in, or church family member. While I'm the pastor of my own home, and elder within my church. It is predicated unto us to encourage faith, to help souls believe that to Jesus all things, not some, but all things. Heal every sickness, why not? That whole jazz about oh, they were only able to pull rabbits out of their hats because they had a special task. Then when they all died, it went back to 1.0. Oh boy.

[Evang.Benincasa]

A must seed of faith, brother.
Have you ever held a mustard seed in your hand?
If Jesus were to mean just a little amount of faith, could he use a mustard seed as an example, or would there be something better to give a good visual of small amount, than that of a mustard seed?

Yeah, He could of used an orchid seed. What's your point?



Regarding, “my kind of folks”:
Recently, a visiting minister told everyone in our congregation that if they stood up, by faith God would heal them.

Well, there you go. They are your folks Here is a guy with zero wisdom telling people who obviously don't believe him ( you are there) and you must of immediately thought nothing was going to happen. So, nothing happened, and why should it. Get up everyone and you will be healed. Jesus said it to a man who had the faith for a healing, and Jesus understood that. Visiting minister who wanted to drop a watermelon? That's your example? Yep, your people. I hit that on the head. :heeheehee




IE of just one, My pastors wife still remains in her wheelchair. (Actually she has been prayed for and anointed with oil several times by several ministers, praying the prayer of faith for her healing). According to your post, it’s because of her lack of faith, no?

According to the Bible it is "as your faith be it unto you" So, Jesus is followed by blind man, blind man is screaming at him for Jesus to help him, and Jesus asks the guy what does he want? Man says that he wants to see? No mud balls of spit, no wash in the swimming pool. Just as your faith be it unto you? Paul had some folks he didn't heal, and it wasn't Paul's fault or Jesus' fault. We live in a world currently where things supernatural just don't happen. But you guys want to know why churches want to close their doors and hand out hand cleanser Seriously? :happydance




So my question to you, my brother in Christ is, did everyone including the minister, (and her) lack faith even as small as a mustard seed of faith, that Jesus said it’s all it takes?

Bro, the minister was speaking Christianese, to a group of people who sound like they are dryer than toast.



And with this kind of faith, (surely a mustard seeds worth?) why is there still so many diseases and sicknesses in our apostolic churches?

Mustard seed, bro, the picture you are painting is that they don't have enough to get to blow a nose. Just saying, I mean it sounds pretty slow don at the first church of look at your wrist watch.



And again I ask, based on Matt. 10, do you believe the apostles had the “ability” to heal at their own will or desire to, based on that authority?
This seems important to answer.

Ministers are called by God, and have their ability from God, but must first have faith in that God. I've seen a lot of cool stuff, so when I see threads from people who are in Pentecostal churches that sound more like starchy Baptists. I understand that they don't see much, or what they had seen even they don't believe it. It doesn't make you a bad guy, so don't take it that way. You just need to get that epiphany, I don't know how you can get that, but Jesus does. How's the prayer life going?




FTR, as I stated, I do believe miracles follow them that believe, when it is God’s will to heal. And it is NOT always Gods will to heal, when someone prays. It seems you would disagree with that.
“Whatever we ask according to His will, He will do it”. :thumbsup

So, you tell someone with a terminal illness that it is a roll of the dice?

Good God from Zion!





There seems to be a quandary that apostolics have boxed themselves into regarding “we have the same healing power/ability as the apostles”, because they could heal EVERY disease, EVERY time, and we apostolics can’t, or “we” would be doing it. You would be doing it.

No quandary for the apostolic.

Maybe you need to take the broom, wash bucket, mop, paint cans, and ladder out of the prayer room.

[Esaias]

I do not think this is a subject that can be decided by thinking, debating, reasoning, etc. I think there are too many variables in too many situations for that. I think the real answer is read your Bible, pray for wisdom, be right with God, and believe what He says. If you're right with God then EVERYTHING will be okay, because He's in charge and whatever happens is what your Father wants to happen, and it's for good, and you've already been living in the "not my will but Thine be done" state of mind.

[Truthseeker]

That's good because as Jesus said, as your faith be it unto you. Every single situations my family and I have been in, or church family member. While I'm the pastor of my own home, and elder within my church. It is predicated unto us to encourage faith, to help souls believe that to Jesus all things, not some, but all things. Heal every sickness, why not? That whole jazz about oh, they were only able to pull rabbits out of their hats because they had a special task. Then when they all died, it went back to 1.0. Oh boy.



Sigh! You're not grasping my point. Please go review my posts.

[shag]

Elder Benincasa,
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my posts with your thoughts. Regarding my dried up faithless church, we are trying to mature Spiritually. We have men’s and ladies prayer, each 2x a week together, 3 church services a week, church fasting throughout a week once every 3 months, as well as the first week of the year, we meet together in our homes and do bible study, we pray for eachother often, we have sectional rallies w other churches, I myself currently fast(w prayer) for 24 hours every Sunday and will throughout this entire year, try to bible study daily, and pray w intent of connecting w God every morning. I am not where I hope to be in Christ, I’m in a process like many others, trying to genuinely exemplify Christ to the people I come in contact with.
I will sincerely pray that God will show me(and my church) more areas I lack, like faith in miracles happening EVERY time we pray, provided that is His will.
I’m working on “my house”, because it needs a lot of work.

Again, thank you for sharing those thoughts and concerns w me, on faith.

[aegsm76]

Should we stop preaching God's protection then?

Back to my question, do you think the apostles would cancel a gathering or tell the sick to stay home?

Seems like I remember Paul "escaping" or leaving an area several times because of threats.

Do you believe he was doubtful of God's protection?

[Truthseeker]

Seems like I remember Paul "escaping" or leaving an area several times because of threats.

Do you believe he was doubtful of God's protection?

Nope, he was all in.

[aegsm76]

Nope, he was all in.

Actually, he was like "I'm out of here!"...

[Truthseeker]

Actually, he was like "I'm out of here!"...

True,:thumbsup

[votivesoul]

What is your opinion on why there are so many sicknesses and diseases in our oneness apostolic churches nowadays?

Sheep Foundering (https://www.agric.wa.gov.au/feeding-nutrition/grain-overload-acidosis-or-grain-poisoning-stock)

[votivesoul]

Elder Benincasa,
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my posts with your thoughts. Regarding my dried up faithless church, we are trying to mature Spiritually. We have men’s and ladies prayer, each 2x a week together, 3 church services a week, church fasting throughout a week once every 3 months, as well as the first week of the year, we meet together in our homes and do bible study, we pray for eachother often, we have sectional rallies w other churches, I myself currently fast(w prayer) for 24 hours every Sunday and will throughout this entire year, try to bible study daily, and pray w intent of connecting w God every morning. I am not where I hope to be in Christ, I’m in a process like many others, trying to genuinely exemplify Christ to the people I come in contact with.
I will sincerely pray that God will show me(and my church) more areas I lack, like faith in miracles happening EVERY time we pray, provided that is His will.
I’m working on “my house”, because it needs a lot of work.

Again, thank you for sharing those thoughts and concerns w me, on faith.

When Jesus was asked "What must we do to work the works of God?", the Lord responded and said, "Believe on Him Whom the Father has sent" (John 6:29). In all that you are doing in the above don't forget to simply believe on Him Whom the Father has sent?

[shag]

Many churches are canceling services due to the virus and telling people to stay home if sick. Would the apostles do that?

What happened to Be Apostolic?

You mean like this?

https://www.wafb.com/2020/03/18/baton-rouge-area-pastor-defies-governor-welcomes-large-gathering-into-church-service/

[hometown guy]

You mean like this?

https://www.wafb.com/2020/03/18/baton-rouge-area-pastor-defies-governor-welcomes-large-gathering-into-church-service/

I think that’s awesome what Tony Spell is doing.