View Full Version : Tony Spell has church in spite of the ban
aegsm76
03-19-2020, 11:07 AM
link
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/18/us/louisiana-pastor-coronavirus/index.html
Birddog
03-19-2020, 11:51 AM
We had church last night in spite of the ban, the COGIC church a block away had church also.
Talked to their bishop and he said that they were having church on Sunday too.
It is pretty sad when a COGIC pastor has more faith than the oneness churches …
Birddog
03-19-2020, 11:54 AM
They have already went from a 15 day ban to a 30 to 45 day ban.
Sorry but they are not going to stop.
We will be having church at regular scheduled service times.
Anybody want to go to a church with faith?
Got a close relative who canceled his services for a month. Told me that God is going to clean the "Junk" out of the assembly!
That is a good way to shut your assembly down.
It amazes me how all these preachers, claiming that nothing is going to come between them and God, have already succumbed to the pressure to quit having church!!!
Wow and again I say WOW!!!
n david
03-19-2020, 12:06 PM
From the article:
"On Wednesday morning, after the church's service was broadcast on local news, several church members were suspended from work, Spell said, because their employers feared spreading the virus."
Sad. Hopefully the church will do right and make sure these family's bills are paid and they have food and necessities while they're suspended from work.
Birddog
03-19-2020, 12:09 PM
From the article:
"On Wednesday morning, after the church's service was broadcast on local news, several church members were suspended from work, Spell said, because their employers feared spreading the virus."
Sad. Hopefully the church will do right and make sure these family's bills are paid and they have food and necessities while they're suspended from work.
Not sad, expected. This is some of the cost I was talking about last night.
The church should step in and help them, I agree. All hands on deck.
aegsm76
03-19-2020, 12:31 PM
From the article:
"On Wednesday morning, after the church's service was broadcast on local news, several church members were suspended from work, Spell said, because their employers feared spreading the virus."
Sad. Hopefully the church will do right and make sure these family's bills are paid and they have food and necessities while they're suspended from work.
If they are suspended without pay, some good lawyer will be happy to take this case...
You could make the argument that they were suspended due to the religious practices/requirements.
Pressing-On
03-19-2020, 12:51 PM
He should be listening to his church leader!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUSMjxSB8ro
Pressing-On
03-19-2020, 12:52 PM
If they are suspended without pay, some good lawyer will be happy to take this case...
You could make the argument that they were suspended due to the religious practices/requirements.
His pastor should pay his bills.
n david
03-19-2020, 12:54 PM
If they are suspended without pay, some good lawyer will be happy to take this case...
You could make the argument that they were suspended due to the religious practices/requirements.
Per the LA discrimination laws, it covers businesses with 20 or more employees.
They would have to prove that the suspension was solely due to their religion, which isn't the reason for the suspension. The employee was not required to attend the service. The company can point to the state's ban on 50 or more people, and easily show the church and employee ignored it.
Birddog
03-19-2020, 03:27 PM
He should be listening to his church leader!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUSMjxSB8ro
Spell is NOT UPCI. He's WPF,
Sorry, no news.
But then again, maybe he IS listening to his LEADER!!!! That would be God!!
Birddog
03-19-2020, 03:28 PM
His pastor should pay his bills.
What about God intervening for their faith?
Wow!
I am amazed at the lack of faith!
KeptByTheWord
03-19-2020, 03:46 PM
This is not a matter of faith.
The Jews separated themselves from those who had leprosy.
When there is a contagion on the loose, it is necessary to separate for the safety of all.
Otherwise, what could happen to this church is possibly what has happened to this church in South Korea. They refused to comply and had a lot of deaths because of their noncomplicance.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-51701039
Birddog
03-19-2020, 03:48 PM
So I am friends with a couple of Russian congregations, with many of them being from the Old Country.
The are watching what is going on here with terror as they see the same things that many of them left from over there in Russia.
They just said that this is the way it started over there. Rights and privileges taken away one at a time and you never got them back. Always for something justifiable.
They are resisting this with everything they have.
None of them, and there are some large ones, are closing shop but are going ahead with services.
The smallest one that I have preached at was over 250, one was 2500 out there in Sacramento.
None are giving in because they know what this leads to.
Amazing that people who have come out of that know what it looks like but the American Church doesn't have a clue...
diakonos
03-19-2020, 04:52 PM
This is not a matter of faith.
The Jews separated themselves from those who had leprosy.
When there is a contagion on the loose, it is necessary to separate for the safety of all.
Otherwise, what could happen to this church is possibly what has happened to this church in South Korea. They refused to comply and had a lot of deaths because of their noncomplicance.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-51701039
Really? Do you quarantine yourself for a cold or the flu?
Pressing-On
03-19-2020, 04:55 PM
Really? Do you quarantine yourself for a cold or the flu?
I do. :thumbsup
diakonos
03-19-2020, 05:02 PM
Do businesses and schools close during cold and flu seasons?
Pressing-On
03-19-2020, 05:04 PM
Do businesses and schools close during cold and flu seasons?
No, but children with fever can’t come back to school until they have had no fever or after having vomited for 24 hours - around here.
Scott Pitta
03-19-2020, 05:17 PM
Willful negligence. By a pastor.
Who should be charged if there are deaths on account of increased infection due to the church ? Will the pastor be liable for the deaths ??
If Donald Trump is God's man, is it a sin to disobey him ?
Nicodemus1968
03-19-2020, 05:22 PM
Willful negligence. By a pastor.
Who should be charged if there are deaths on account of increased infection due to the church ? Will the pastor be liable for the deaths ??
If Donald Trump is God's man, is it a sin to disobey him ?
Donald Trump is not Gods man.
Nicodemus1968
03-19-2020, 05:24 PM
Really? Do you quarantine yourself for a cold or the flu?
I don’t. With that, I also don’t receive a $3,000.00 stimulus check. :happydance
diakonos
03-19-2020, 05:42 PM
i don’t. With that, i also don’t receive a $3,000.00 stimulus check. :happydance
$3,000 ???
Tithesmeister
03-19-2020, 05:45 PM
Willful negligence. By a pastor.
Who should be charged if there are deaths on account of increased infection due to the church ? Will the pastor be liable for the deaths ??
If Donald Trump is God's man, is it a sin to disobey him ?
Scott! Really?
I make the choice, for my family and me to go to church or not. Do you really think the pastor is going to be charged with anything if I make a decision to go to church and one of my family dies? Over catching a virus? Because he or someone else unlocked the church door?
It is getting ridiculous. Now if he kidnapped myself and my family and FORCED us to go to church, knowing that there was a likelihood of us catching a deadly disease? That’s a different issue.
Who’s liable? I am. You are.
If we ALLOW ourselves to be told what to do, as though we are helpless children? If we abdicate our God ordained position as the head of our families?
We are liable!
And we are guilty.
Guilty of violating the very instructions in the word of God. Guilty of believing the false doctrine that the pastor has authority over us, which belongs only to Jesus.
Guilty of setting an incredibly poor example for our sons.
At times like this, false doctrine of the authority of the pastor over any man in the church is exposed for what it is. Preposterous!
Read your post, and think about it before it’s too late to delete it. If you’ll delete yours, I’ll delete mine!
Nicodemus1968
03-19-2020, 05:52 PM
$3,000 ???
The news just put out that a family of 4 that made under $99k is likely to receive $3k in the next couple weeks.
Esaias
03-19-2020, 05:56 PM
Willful negligence. By a pastor.
Who should be charged if there are deaths on account of increased infection due to the church ? Will the pastor be liable for the deaths ??
If Donald Trump is God's man, is it a sin to disobey him ?
When you turn your Christian neighbors in to the death squads, pat yourself on the back real hard and enjoy it while you can. Cause you will very likely find yourself being turned in for disposal by your remaining neighbors eventually.
Evang.Benincasa
03-19-2020, 05:56 PM
Spell is NOT UPCI. He's WPF,
Sorry, no news.
But then again, maybe he IS listening to his LEADER!!!! That would be God!!
Ok, I listened to Brother Bernard. He had some good things to say at the beginning. But, he went into lawyer mode. No problem. These box churches have run their course? One minute they are locking their doors because they are in fear. Now they are home because they are in fear. Now, they don’t have to worry about getting shot. Because they are all home wearing surgical masks and rubber gloves.
Birddog
03-19-2020, 05:58 PM
Ok, I listened to Brother Bernard. He had some good things to say at the beginning. But, he went into lawyer mode. No problem. These box churches have run their course? One minute they are locking their doors because they are in fear. Now they are home because they are in fear. Now, they don’t have to worry about getting shot. Because they are all home wearing surgical masks and rubber gloves.
:heeheehee
Evang.Benincasa
03-19-2020, 05:58 PM
When you turn your Christian neighbors in to the death squads, pat yourself on the back real hard and enjoy it while you can. Cause you will very likely find yourself being turned in for disposal by your remaining neighbors eventually.
It’s guys like Scott who make Hillary Clinton proud.
Esaias
03-19-2020, 05:59 PM
So I am friends with a couple of Russian congregations, with many of them being from the Old Country.
The are watching what is going on here with terror as they see the same things that many of them left from over there in Russia.
They just said that this is the way it started over there. Rights and privileges taken away one at a time and you never got them back. Always for something justifiable.
They are resisting this with everything they have.
None of them, and there are some large ones, are closing shop but are going ahead with services.
The smallest one that I have preached at was over 250, one was 2500 out there in Sacramento.
None are giving in because they know what this leads to.
Amazing that people who have come out of that know what it looks like but the American Church doesn't have a clue...
We pray for them without ceasing. Next time you see pastor Slavik, tell him the brethren in Texas have not ceased to pray for them since we first met them. :thumbsup
Birddog
03-19-2020, 06:02 PM
We pray for them without ceasing. Next time you see pastor Slavik, tell him the brethren in Texas have not ceased to pray for them since we first met them. :thumbsup
The Elder is with them down there, he was wanting to come out here soon.
Not for sure what is going to happen now, other than that they are going to have church.
That entire congregation is now rebaptized in Jesus name and they believe tongues are essential evidence of the new Birth.
Scott Pitta
03-19-2020, 06:03 PM
People reap what they sow.
Refusing to aid in preventing the spread of a contagious, fatal disease has fatal results.
The message to society is clear: we do not care about public health.
Evang.Benincasa
03-19-2020, 06:03 PM
:heeheehee
I mean, it’s the truth. In just a short time. They went from locking the doors crouching in fear. Freaking out when any new visitor ( who may look odd) comes in. So now they’re safe and sound and home. Watching live stream preaching.
diakonos
03-19-2020, 06:07 PM
The news just put out that a family of 4 that made under $99k is likely to receive $3k in the next couple weeks.
I fly solo. Are they sending checks or direct deposit?
Birddog
03-19-2020, 06:09 PM
I mean, it’s the truth. In just a short time. They went from locking the doors crouching in fear. Freaking out when any new visitor ( who may look odd) comes in. So now they’re safe and sound and home. Watching live stream preaching.
What gets me Bro is that many of these profess that they believe we are living in the end of the end of the end.
These are some of the same men that adamantly professed their undying devotion, like Peter did, Lord, we will die for you.
Yet we see them rolling over and canceling church congregating for a facebook livestream.
So much for the boasts that they would never shut the doors of their churches without a fight...
What happened?
When did it happen?
How did it happen?
When did it start?
Had one man tell a friend that if they can do livestream for this then don't expect him to come back to church when it's over. He will stay home in his boxers and worship God over the screen!!!
Remember when they crucified the televangeslists over this and now....?
This is not going to end well for them.
Raven
03-19-2020, 06:17 PM
If this was truly about religious freedom I would be firmly in Tony Spell's camp. But it's not! His underlying premise is the First Amendment's right to peaceful assembly. This order affects everyone from Nascar to Notre Dame without regard to race, religion, or sexual orientation. As to his affiliation with the WPF ??? The church founded by the chief person behind the WPF's formation is strictly online with no public services at the present.
You can't, falsely, yell "Fire!" in a theater and if your building has a seating capacity of 500 and you have 600 in attendance, the Fire Marshal can shut you down. Are we going to make a "Hero of Faith" out of someone who defies the Fire Marshal?
Someone once said, "Choose your battles wisely", and now it may be that Tony Spell will look back and wish that he had waited for a more opportune time or deferred to someone with more experience. [ Just an old man's observation. ]
Freeindeed
03-19-2020, 06:49 PM
I mean, it’s the truth. In just a short time. They went from locking the doors crouching in fear. Freaking out when any new visitor ( who may look odd) comes in. So now they’re safe and sound and home. Watching live stream preaching.
Then they go to Costco surrounded by hundreds of strangers to stock up on TP. Doesn't make any sense!
Esaias
03-19-2020, 06:50 PM
If this was truly about religious freedom I would be firmly in Tony Spell's camp. But it's not! His underlying premise is the First Amendment's right to peaceful assembly. This order affects everyone from Nascar to Notre Dame without regard to race, religion, or sexual orientation. As to his affiliation with the WPF ??? The church founded by the chief person behind the WPF's formation is strictly online with no public services at the present.
You can't, falsely, yell "Fire!" in a theater and if your building has a seating capacity of 500 and you have 600 in attendance, the Fire Marshal can shut you down. Are we going to make a "Hero of Faith" out of someone who defies the Fire Marshal?
Someone once said, "Choose your battles wisely", and now it may be that Tony Spell will look back and wish that he had waited for a more opportune time or deferred to someone with more experience. [ Just an old man's observation. ]
If the underlying premise is freedom to peacefully assemble, then it IS about religious freedom.
votivesoul
03-19-2020, 09:46 PM
When you turn your Christian neighbors in to the death squads, pat yourself on the back real hard and enjoy it while you can. Cause you will very likely find yourself being turned in for disposal by your remaining neighbors eventually.
Maybe my fellow Wisconsinite will start here (https://www.channel3000.com/public-health-madison-dane-county-creates-report-mass-gathering-form/).
KeptByTheWord
03-19-2020, 10:23 PM
Really? Do you quarantine yourself for a cold or the flu?
Quarantines have happened throughout history, because of the major pandemics the world has faced. It is just that today our world is so interconnected that it is a global issue instantly rather than over a longer period of time.
This is a very interesting article depicting the various plagues known throughout history.
https://www.health24.com/Medical/infectious-diseases/News/the-10-deadliest-epidemics-throughout-history-20170928
jediwill83
03-19-2020, 11:17 PM
So did he reach out or attempt to contact other churches and ministers and pastors to try to encourage them to do the same? Maybe in a spirit of unity and understanding that people may be dealing with some fear, apprehension and also just the uniqueness of the situation?
That would impress me more than him packing folks in his church to the rafters.
KeptByTheWord
03-19-2020, 11:40 PM
Biblical quarantine:
Leviticus 13:45 A diseased person must wear torn clothes and let his hair hang loose, and he must cover his mouth and cry out, ‘Unclean, unclean!’ 46 As long as he has the infection, he remains unclean. He must live alone in a place outside the camp.
The problem of course with this very contagious virus is that it is invisible and hard to discern if the symptoms presenting are the common cold, flu, or the virus that turns into a deadly pneumonia.
I just want people to think about these things. Quarantines work, and were instituted biblically. Not infecting other people was of the utmost importance, an institution of the Lord himself for the safety of the people.
This situation is not about religious freedom, because everyone's freedom is at stake, not just Christians.
However, I am concerned that something sinister is at work, trying to make use of this "perfect storm" of events, and to use it to usher in even greater loss of our freedoms.
But to not comply with a quarantine in our current Covid-19 event puts other vulnerable people in danger, and violates God's word, because we are to obey those in authority as long as we are not violating God's word.
jediwill83
03-19-2020, 11:46 PM
Biblical quarantine:
Leviticus 13:45 A diseased person must wear torn clothes and let his hair hang loose, and he must cover his mouth and cry out, ‘Unclean, unclean!’ 46 As long as he has the infection, he remains unclean. He must live alone in a place outside the camp.
The problem of course with this very contagious virus is that it is invisible and hard to discern if the symptoms presenting are the common cold, flu, or the virus that turns into a deadly pneumonia.
I just want people to think about these things. Quarantines work, and were instituted biblically. Not infecting other people was of the utmost importance, an institution of the Lord himself for the safety of the people.
This situation is not about religious freedom, because everyone's freedom is at stake, not just Christians.
However, I am concerned that something sinister is at work, trying to make use of this "perfect storm" of events, and to use it to usher in even greater loss of our freedoms.
But to not comply with a quarantine in our current Covid-19 event puts other vulnerable people in danger, and violates God's word, because we are to obey those in authority as long as we are not violating God's word.
Oh I agree. I definitely think some hinky dink is afoot. Yall keep us in prayer. Looking like longer and stricter efforts are coming. Trying to use an appropriate level of caution.
Raven
03-20-2020, 01:02 AM
[QUOTE=Esaias;1583487]If the underlying premise is freedom to peacefully assemble, then it IS about religious freedom.[/QUOTE
I believe you missed my point but I won't belabor it. Just another reminder as to why I don't post here anymore nor seldom check the site to see what's happening. As you were!
Evang.Benincasa
03-20-2020, 05:27 AM
Then they go to Costco surrounded by hundreds of strangers to stock up on TP. Doesn't make any sense!
That’s what doesn’t make sense to me.
We are totally safe in those places but not at church?
Evang.Benincasa
03-20-2020, 05:30 AM
What gets me Bro is that many of these profess that they believe we are living in the end of the end of the end.
These are some of the same men that adamantly professed their undying devotion, like Peter did, Lord, we will die for you.
Yet we see them rolling over and canceling church congregating for a facebook livestream.
So much for the boasts that they would never shut the doors of their churches without a fight...
What happened?
When did it happen?
How did it happen?
When did it start?
Had one man tell a friend that if they can do livestream for this then don't expect him to come back to church when it's over. He will stay home in his boxers and worship God over the screen!!!
Remember when they crucified the televangeslists over this and now....?
This is not going to end well for them.
How about churches that don’t do internet? They just have to have silent prayer?
Evang.Benincasa
03-20-2020, 05:44 AM
Biblical quarantine:
Leviticus 13:45 A diseased person must wear torn clothes and let his hair hang loose, and he must cover his mouth and cry out, ‘Unclean, unclean!’ 46 As long as he has the infection, he remains unclean. He must live alone in a place outside the camp.
The problem of course with this very contagious virus is that it is invisible and hard to discern if the symptoms presenting are the common cold, flu, or the virus that turns into a deadly pneumonia.
I just want people to think about these things. Quarantines work, and were instituted biblically. Not infecting other people was of the utmost importance, an institution of the Lord himself for the safety of the people.
This situation is not about religious freedom, because everyone's freedom is at stake, not just Christians.
However, I am concerned that something sinister is at work, trying to make use of this "perfect storm" of events, and to use it to usher in even greater loss of our freedoms.
But to not comply with a quarantine in our current Covid-19 event puts other vulnerable people in danger, and violates God's word, because we are to obey those in authority as long as we are not violating God's word.
How long are you going to remain in doors? I’m serious. How long are you not walking outside your house? Off your property? Please tell me how many pandemics did we do under Obama? What happened then? Why no hysteria to this magnitude? I have church family who are really going to be blown out by this. Job wise, all cruise ships are in moth balls. Resturants CLOSED. Court building closed. Gyms closed. We went through pandemics before, they might never rebound financially from this QUARANTINE. Going to church? Yelling fire in a theatre? Religious liberty? Jobs! Doe Rae Meee! People are loosing their jingle and you are quoting me Leviticus about how to identify someone with leprosy?
We have had pandemics before, way worse but no loss of jobs. Care to explain?
Evang.Benincasa
03-20-2020, 05:54 AM
I believe you missed my point but I won't belabor it. Just another reminder as to why I don't post here anymore nor seldom check the site to see what's happening. As you were!
You know something Raven I appreciate reading your posts. But when posters meet opposition and whine about reasons they no longer post? Make us glad they no longer post. Raven, this country lost its guts. I have watched for years postings on forums of bellyaching cry babies. The minute they meet strong opposition they fold like paper dolls. Looks like people only want echoes, and not voices.
diakonos
03-20-2020, 08:23 AM
That’s what doesn’t make sense to me.
We are totally safe in those places but not at church?
Yep
n david
03-20-2020, 10:37 AM
When you turn your Christian neighbors in to the death squads, pat yourself on the back real hard and enjoy it while you can. Cause you will very likely find yourself being turned in for disposal by your remaining neighbors eventually.
And you say my posts were uncalled for.
smh
n david
03-20-2020, 10:39 AM
So I am friends with a couple of Russian congregations, with many of them being from the Old Country.
The are watching what is going on here with terror as they see the same things that many of them left from over there in Russia.
They just said that this is the way it started over there. Rights and privileges taken away one at a time and you never got them back. Always for something justifiable.
They are resisting this with everything they have.
None of them, and there are some large ones, are closing shop but are going ahead with services.
The smallest one that I have preached at was over 250, one was 2500 out there in Sacramento.
None are giving in because they know what this leads to.
Amazing that people who have come out of that know what it looks like but the American Church doesn't have a clue...
Hope it never comes to that, because you and others who must have church services with large crowds in buildings likely won't survive spiritually.
Sister Alvear
03-20-2020, 10:42 AM
We just received orders to close our churches...
JoeBandy
03-20-2020, 10:42 AM
What gets me Bro is that many of these profess that they believe we are living in the end of the end of the end.
These are some of the same men that adamantly professed their undying devotion, like Peter did, Lord, we will die for you.
Yet we see them rolling over and canceling church congregating for a facebook livestream.
So much for the boasts that they would never shut the doors of their churches without a fight...
What happened?
When did it happen?
How did it happen?
When did it start?
Had one man tell a friend that if they can do livestream for this then don't expect him to come back to church when it's over. He will stay home in his boxers and worship God over the screen!!!
Remember when they crucified the televangeslists over this and now....?
This is not going to end well for them.
This is spot on... I cant tell you how many times I have heard similar preaching then as soon as the CDC comes along with these recommendations it's just roll over and give up. Didnt even take men with guns invading the church building. Gutless cowards!!!
n david
03-20-2020, 10:47 AM
Gutless cowards!!!
There are good men I know personally who have agonized over this. They don't deserve the smear you just attributed to them, nor the smears from others on the forum.
I'll wait for Esaias to say your post was uncalled for... /s
n david
03-20-2020, 10:48 AM
If this was truly about religious freedom I would be firmly in Tony Spell's camp. But it's not! His underlying premise is the First Amendment's right to peaceful assembly. This order affects everyone from Nascar to Notre Dame without regard to race, religion, or sexual orientation. As to his affiliation with the WPF ??? The church founded by the chief person behind the WPF's formation is strictly online with no public services at the present.
You can't, falsely, yell "Fire!" in a theater and if your building has a seating capacity of 500 and you have 600 in attendance, the Fire Marshal can shut you down. Are we going to make a "Hero of Faith" out of someone who defies the Fire Marshal?
Someone once said, "Choose your battles wisely", and now it may be that Tony Spell will look back and wish that he had waited for a more opportune time or deferred to someone with more experience. [ Just an old man's observation. ]
Common sense and facts aren't welcomed here.
The Chinese Virus has turned AFF in CNN and MSNBC where we post panic, fear and fake news.
JoeBandy
03-20-2020, 10:52 AM
I do believe there is a virus... I do not believe it's as contagious and deadly as it's made out to be. The numbers dont add up. I think the US media and other are using this to push an agenda. Let's look at a couple facts. Divide the deaths worldwide by the total human population. Look at India. The media only mentiones China and Italy. How do we know for a fact that the couple hundred deaths were strictly because of corona??? Why is the initial symptoms the same as the annual hay fever season?? Why did the keep downsizing the size of gatherings?? This is America and yall are willingly giving up freedoms to avoid a virus that has been blown completely out of proportion. I may get Corona and die. My 72 year old mother may get it and die. I will not hunker down and live in fear. I dare anyone to post on social media. The memes relating to the second amendment.. they just whipped your butt without a single firearm. So much. For. "come and get it"....
JoeBandy
03-20-2020, 10:55 AM
There are good men I know personally who have agonized over this. They don't deserve the smear you just attributed to them, nor the smears from others on the forum.
I'll wait for Esaias to say your post was uncalled for... /s
Smear or not. It's the truth. Theses same people who you say agonized are the same ones who were.....well nevermind you must have never been in a UPC church.
..ever...
JoeBandy
03-20-2020, 11:01 AM
This is what I am saying. I cant tell you how many times I have heard from many many preachers,evangalist etc etc.use "what you gonna do when the men with guns show up" and similar phrases to get the crowd all pumped up. Well. It didnt even take a gun
.. it took a virus that less than 5% of the worlds population will get. And out of that 5% there is a 97 to 98 % survival rate!
Evang.Benincasa
03-20-2020, 11:02 AM
Common sense and facts aren't welcomed here.
The Chinese Virus has turned AFF in CNN and MSNBC where we post panic, fear and fake news.
:highfive
jediwill83
03-20-2020, 11:13 AM
This is either the will of God and if it is there is nothing you can do about it and God is in absolute complete control OR its not the will of God and He either cant or wont do anything.
Wheres your faith?
If He cant keep what has been committed into His hands...well...we have problems.
If He can indeed do as He has said, I dont see what all the fuss is about.
If folks drop out someone else will stand in the gap same as they always have.
If you're all fired up about your faith being under attack, are you reaching out to maybe first responders and or fire and asking to ride along as a "chaplain" of sorts that way you can have access to the sick and pray?
How about opening a "drive through" for prayer in the church parking lot?
Lotta scared folks out there and Im sure they would appreciate it and it wouldnt violate any ordinances on groups.
.
jediwill83
03-20-2020, 11:20 AM
This is what I am saying. I cant tell you how many times I have heard from many many preachers,evangalist etc etc.use "what you gonna do when the men with guns show up" and similar phrases to get the crowd all pumped up. Well. It didnt even take a gun
.. it took a virus that less than 5% of the worlds population will get. And out of that 5% there is a 97 to 98 % survival rate!
In the States the framework for our demise was built by current and previous generations allowing more and more of their rights to be whittled away in the name of law and order and safety.
That same good ole boy cop busting folks for that plant we all hate that made us soooo safe well, thats the guy thatll bust anyone else for anything the government tells him to.
We have been willingly sharpening our own sword of destruction because we never thought it'd be wielded against us.
n david
03-20-2020, 11:30 AM
How about opening a "drive through" for prayer in the church parking lot?
Lotta scared folks out there and Im sure they would appreciate it and it wouldnt violate any ordinances on groups.
That is an awesome idea!
I agree that God is in control. Nothing is happening without Him allowing it to happen. There's a reason. There's a purpose. We may not know what it is or see it yet, but my faith, confidence and trust is in God.
n david
03-20-2020, 11:36 AM
Smear or not. It's the truth. Theses same people who you say agonized are the same ones who were.....well nevermind you must have never been in a UPC church.
..ever...
I was born and raised in the UPC. I've been in and around the UPC my entire life. My father was a licensed UPC minister for over 60 years before he passed last year.
n david
03-20-2020, 11:39 AM
A Pastor friend posted:
"Churches are not being closed. Buildings are being closed ... the Church just got mobilized!"
It's true.
This is an opportunity. There are things we can do, as JW pointed out with the idea on prayer. People are afraid and we have the hope and the peace they need right now.
jediwill83
03-20-2020, 11:49 AM
That is an awesome idea!
I agree that God is in control. Nothing is happening without Him allowing it to happen. There's a reason. There's a purpose. We may not know what it is or see it yet, but my faith, confidence and trust is in God.
Talk about an outreach! How about volunteering to build wooden cabinet like structures where supplies can be left at peoples houses with limited or no contact. Leave em annointed prayer clothes...thats Biblical right?
Get on facebook /craigslist and just reach out to folks and find ways to meet needs.
But no, yall wanna get all concerned over what you can and can't do with a building....
Where your treasure is .. there your heart will be also.
My Bible also says in the very words of Christ that whatsoever you have done to the least you have done it unto Him
Seems to reason that when you fulfil that mandate that is when He is present and involved for sure...so folks there isnt a lack of "church" to be had....just may not involve your money pit of a building project.
Pressing-On
03-20-2020, 12:02 PM
Talk about an outreach! How about volunteering to build wooden cabinet like structures where supplies can be left at peoples houses with limited or no contact. Leave em annointed prayer clothes...thats Biblical right?
Wood cabinets can get pricey and I can pray because I am Spirit filled and don’t see how a prayer cloth isn’t superstitious. The Apostles weren’t handing them out, the people, by their faith, wanted to take something back home with them, because the anointing was so palatable. I wouldn’t practice something the Apostles weren’t practicing.
“GOD did extraordinary miracles through the hands of Paul, so that even handkerchiefsc and aprons that had touched him were taken to the sick, and the diseases and evil spirits left them.” Acts 19:11-12
This is just my opinion, but the miracles were so extraordinary, that the people’s faith was also extraordinary. It was their faith and not the linens. Laying aside all of my Catholic paraphernalia, i.e., crosses, rosary, etc., it would be hard for me to practice this.
jediwill83
03-20-2020, 12:11 PM
Wood cabinets can get pricey and I can pray because I am Spirit filled and don’t see how a prayer cloth isn’t superstitious. The Apostles weren’t handing them out, the people, by their faith, wanted to take something back home with them, because the anointing was so palatable. I wouldn’t practice something the Apostles weren’t practicing.
“GOD did extraordinary miracles through the hands of Paul, so that even handkerchiefsc and aprons that had touched him were taken to the sick, and the diseases and evil spirits left them.” Acts 19:11-12
This is just my opinion, but the miracles were so extraordinary, that the people’s faith was also extraordinary. It was their faith and not the linens. Laying aside all of my Catholic paraphernalia, i.e., crosses, rosary, etc., it would be hard for me to practice this.
Hey I totally get where you're coming from. Point being is that there are a lot of different scenarios that arent cookie cutter and God is supposed to dwell within us and we have a lot of untapped creativity we can call upon to make whatever needs to happen, happen.
As far as expense goes, you could whip something up from repurposed wood pallets that folks give away all the time for free on craigslist and Im sure people would donate material if they were aware.
The prayer cloth thing I grew up with and its popular down here *shrugs*
KeptByTheWord
03-20-2020, 01:34 PM
How long are you going to remain in doors? I’m serious. How long are you not walking outside your house? Off your property? Please tell me how many pandemics did we do under Obama? What happened then? Why no hysteria to this magnitude? I have church family who are really going to be blown out by this. Job wise, all cruise ships are in moth balls. Resturants CLOSED. Court building closed. Gyms closed. We went through pandemics before, they might never rebound financially from this QUARANTINE. Going to church? Yelling fire in a theatre? Religious liberty? Jobs! Doe Rae Meee! People are loosing their jingle and you are quoting me Leviticus about how to identify someone with leprosy?
We have had pandemics before, way worse but no loss of jobs. Care to explain?
If this virus had been allowed to ransack the world unchecked, everyone would be screaming at the politicians - off with your heads... but because they have taken strict quarantine measures, then the fear weapon is pulled on us instead. There is no optimum in this situation. Regardless of what the government response is to this virus, people were going to be mad, and conspiracy theorists will abound...
What the church needs to do is realize this could be the hour we have been called here for, and see that we don't spread the fear, but be the witness and the light the world needs in this dark hour.
KeptByTheWord
03-20-2020, 01:37 PM
And if it means meeting in our homes, helping those in need, without jobs, without food... let's do it! Let's find someone to bless, to encourage, and to help. This is not the hour to begin to fuel the fame of fear.
I am currently working on making care packages to deliver to our local nursing homes to the shut-ins. My prayer meeting ladies, and bible study ladies are gathering things, and we will be sending packages, letters, and little handmade journals with scripture verses in them to bless and encourage them. We are writing letters to those who are shut in, can't leave, and discouragement and fear is high.
Let's find SOMETHING we can do to bless others during this time, and quit spreading fear. Let's share the hope of the gospel instead.
Pressing-On
03-20-2020, 01:46 PM
And if it means meeting in our homes, helping those in need, without jobs, without food... let's do it! Let's find someone to bless, to encourage, and to help. This is not the hour to begin to fuel the fame of fear.
I am currently working on making care packages to deliver to our local nursing homes to the shut-ins. My prayer meeting ladies, and bible study ladies are gathering things, and we will be sending packages, letters, and little handmade journals with scripture verses in them to bless and encourage them. We are writing letters to those who are shut in, can't leave, and discouragement and fear is high.
Let's find SOMETHING we can do to bless others during this time, and quit spreading fear. Let's share the hope of the gospel instead.
:highfive
Nicodemus1968
03-20-2020, 01:47 PM
And if it means meeting in our homes, helping those in need, without jobs, without food... let's do it! Let's find someone to bless, to encourage, and to help. This is not the hour to begin to fuel the fame of fear.
I am currently working on making care packages to deliver to our local nursing homes to the shut-ins. My prayer meeting ladies, and bible study ladies are gathering things, and we will be sending packages, letters, and little handmade journals with scripture verses in them to bless and encourage them. We are writing letters to those who are shut in, can't leave, and discouragement and fear is high.
Let's find SOMETHING we can do to bless others during this time, and quit spreading fear. Let's share the hope of the gospel instead.
:highfive
Birddog
03-20-2020, 04:11 PM
We just received orders to close our churches...
So what are you going to do?
How are you going to reach those you reach for?
And Sister A, I am asking in all seriousness.
Esaias
03-20-2020, 05:37 PM
And if it means meeting in our homes, helping those in need, without jobs, without food... let's do it! Let's find someone to bless, to encourage, and to help. This is not the hour to begin to fuel the fame of fear.
I am currently working on making care packages to deliver to our local nursing homes to the shut-ins. My prayer meeting ladies, and bible study ladies are gathering things, and we will be sending packages, letters, and little handmade journals with scripture verses in them to bless and encourage them. We are writing letters to those who are shut in, can't leave, and discouragement and fear is high.
Let's find SOMETHING we can do to bless others during this time, and quit spreading fear. Let's share the hope of the gospel instead.
You believe in quarantine for health's sake but...
...you're gonna have people (yourself included) mail care packages to nursing homes? How in the world can you not see the absurdity in that? It's like "schools closed to stop the virus spreading but all the kids are at the mall." It's like "Shut down restaurant dining rooms to stop the virus spreading but keep the drive thru open" or better yet "everybody go to WalMart and buy stuff to avoid the contagious virus."
Has everybody just suddenly lost all sanity?
Kinda looks like it.
Hey nDavid, here's a dumb conspiracy: China hijacked all the cell phones and sent out a subliminal signal that made 80% of the population go full potatoe.
Esaias
03-20-2020, 05:51 PM
I do believe there is a virus... I do not believe it's as contagious and deadly as it's made out to be. The numbers dont add up. I think the US media and other are using this to push an agenda. Let's look at a couple facts. Divide the deaths worldwide by the total human population. Look at India. The media only mentiones China and Italy. How do we know for a fact that the couple hundred deaths were strictly because of corona??? Why is the initial symptoms the same as the annual hay fever season?? Why did the keep downsizing the size of gatherings?? This is America and yall are willingly giving up freedoms to avoid a virus that has been blown completely out of proportion. I may get Corona and die. My 72 year old mother may get it and die. I will not hunker down and live in fear. I dare anyone to post on social media. The memes relating to the second amendment.. they just whipped your butt without a single firearm. So much. For. "come and get it"....
I have a feeling the "agenda" you mentioned is not a "media and others" agenda, but something bigger. China's media is telling it's people that Wuhan Flu is a US made and released bioweapon. That's war preparation. Here POTUS repeatedly refers to "the Chinese virus", has enacted the DPA, apparently Continuity of Government is "on standby", general shutdown of nonessential business and activities... Looks like possible careful war preparation to me.
The numbers don't add up? That may be due to being on the wrong page in the text book. The response to this is not only disproportionate, but way beyond "democrat liberal media clickbaiting and fearmongering." But it is entirely proportionate to governments bracing for The Big One.
Hopefully that's not the case. Hopefully everything just magically blows over and everything gets back to normal (you know, the new normal called "Decay and Collapse of Western Civilisation"). Hopefully all my thoughts are just dumb conspiracies like ndavid claims.
But hopey changey wishful thinking isn't a viable plan of action. Just saying.
n david
03-20-2020, 05:55 PM
Here POTUS repeatedly refers to "the Chinese virus", has enacted the DPA, apparently Continuity of Government is "on standby", general shutdown of nonessential business and activities... Looks like possible careful war preparation to me.
Less than 30 minutes ago...
Anyways, Trump did not enact the DPA, let alone enact it twice.
smh
Are there any churches in central Arkansas that are still open to services?
Evang.Benincasa
03-20-2020, 07:47 PM
Are there any churches in central Arkansas that are still open to services?
Arkansas have closed Apostolic churches? I can't see that EVER happening.
Maybe box churches may close. But some little Apostolic church in the hills can't spell coronavirus let alone worry about it.
diakonos
03-20-2020, 07:51 PM
Maybe box churches may close. But some little Apostolic church in the hills can't spell coronavirus let alone worry about it.
:lol
Will be passing thru Beebe, Ar. This weekend and was hoping to find a service.
Evang.Benincasa
03-20-2020, 08:07 PM
If this virus had been allowed to ransack the world unchecked, everyone would be screaming at the politicians - off with your heads... but because they have taken strict quarantine measures, then the fear weapon is pulled on us instead. There is no optimum in this situation. Regardless of what the government response is to this virus, people were going to be mad, and conspiracy theorists will abound...
What the church needs to do is realize this could be the hour we have been called here for, and see that we don't spread the fear, but be the witness and the light the world needs in this dark hour.
Called my sister in New York. She informed me that she had the coronavirus in February. Most people had it in January. But if we had Hillary Clinton, or Obama as president it would be business as usual. This is the time the church was called for? Was it that time when we were dealing with Zeka? West Nile? H1N1? We are being duped, there is something else going on and it sure isn't a flu. But we are distracted easy, and we are the most part good boys and girls who will do anything for statism.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3294517/ anyone remember this? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4869710/
Evang.Benincasa
03-20-2020, 08:09 PM
Will be passing thru Beebe, Ar. This weekend and was hoping to find a service.
You just look around and you will find some old Apostolic church where they still shout at the sound of a hammond B3
Nicodemus1968
03-20-2020, 08:32 PM
Arkansas have closed Apostolic churches? I can't see that EVER happening.
Maybe box churches may close. But some little Apostolic church in the hills can't spell coronavirus let alone worry about it.
How sweet it is. Praise God for the church’s that are still standing strong despite the spirit that is working against the church.
Tithesmeister
03-20-2020, 09:11 PM
I just thought of something that will make some of you anti-Easter people proud. It is beginning to look like Easter 2020 will be a non-event.
Is that a good thing?
Or a bad thing?
No hard boiled chicken eggs and rabbits to hide them! #coronavirus
Esaias
03-20-2020, 09:16 PM
I just thought of something that will make some of you anti-Easter people proud. It is beginning to look like Easter 2020 will be a non-event.
Is that a good thing?
Or a bad thing?
No hard boiled chicken eggs and rabbits to hide them! #coronavirus
Passover is coming up. None of our plans are changing as far as that is concerned.
The flu bug isn't what folks need to be looking out for. Other things are afoot.
Evang.Benincasa
03-20-2020, 09:32 PM
Passover is coming up. None of our plans are changing as far as that is concerned.
The flu bug isn't what folks need to be looking out for. Other things are afoot.
:highfive
MawMaw
03-20-2020, 11:33 PM
Passover is coming up. None of our plans are changing as far as that is concerned.
The flu bug isn't what folks need to be looking out for. Other things are afoot.
Lots of folks are thinking that. Can you share your opinions on what you think is going on?
KeptByTheWord
03-21-2020, 01:05 AM
You believe in quarantine for health's sake but...
...you're gonna have people (yourself included) mail care packages to nursing homes? How in the world can you not see the absurdity in that? It's like "schools closed to stop the virus spreading but all the kids are at the mall." It's like "Shut down restaurant dining rooms to stop the virus spreading but keep the drive thru open" or better yet "everybody go to WalMart and buy stuff to avoid the contagious virus."
Has everybody just suddenly lost all sanity?
Kinda looks like it.
Hey nDavid, here's a dumb conspiracy: China hijacked all the cell phones and sent out a subliminal signal that made 80% of the population go full potatoe.
You can't find anything positive to say. Ever. I'm not evading the fact that there is something ugly at work beneath the surface. But why can't you agree at least that we can be doing something POSITIVE in face of all it?
Called my sister in New York. She informed me that she had the coronavirus in February. Most people had it in January. But if we had Hillary Clinton, or Obama as president it would be business as usual. This is the time the church was called for? Was it that time when we were dealing with Zeka? West Nile? H1N1? We are being duped, there is something else going on and it sure isn't a flu. But we are distracted easy, and we are the most part good boys and girls who will do anything for statism.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3294517/ anyone remember this? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4869710/
I'm not denying something big is in the undercurrents, and all of us are trying to figure it out.
I'm glad we can share information as we come across it. It helps us all to be more aware.
BUT In the meantime, let's do all we can while the world flounders in this darkness to be the light that they need.
Wood cabinets can get pricey and I can pray because I am Spirit filled and don’t see how a prayer cloth isn’t superstitious. The Apostles weren’t handing them out, the people, by their faith, wanted to take something back home with them, because the anointing was so palatable. I wouldn’t practice something the Apostles weren’t practicing.
“GOD did extraordinary miracles through the hands of Paul, so that even handkerchiefsc and aprons that had touched him were taken to the sick, and the diseases and evil spirits left them.” Acts 19:11-12
This is just my opinion, but the miracles were so extraordinary, that the people’s faith was also extraordinary. It was their faith and not the linens. Laying aside all of my Catholic paraphernalia, i.e., crosses, rosary, etc., it would be hard for me to practice this.
I think we need to share ideas, and see what we can do. Let's be the hands and feet of Jesus ministering to people who need Him. One idea may work for someone, and not the next person. I don't expect Bro. Esaias and Bro. Beni to send care packages to the nursing homes like I'm doing. But, there is something else they can do that I can't.
Let's all do something to make a difference! We are here for such a time as this!
Esaias
03-21-2020, 04:11 AM
You can't find anything positive to say. Ever. I'm not evading the fact that there is something ugly at work beneath the surface. But why can't you agree at least that we can be doing something POSITIVE in face of all it?
!
Can't find anything positive to say? Ever? Wow.
I start more threads here on Bible doctrine, the power of God, the Victory of our Saviour, than than just about ANYONE ON THIS FORUM.
I post more posts and threads on PRACTICAL APPLICATION OF FAITH AND SCRIPTURE than anyone here with the possible exception of brother Blume.
I have REPEATEDLY affirmed that Christians are the only wayfinders this world has. I have repeatedly encouraged everyone here to get back to the Bible in order that THEY PERSONALLY might be used by God to help somebody out.
But when I point out the INCONSISTENCY in someone's post I'm somehow the guy who NEVER HAS ANYTHING POSITIVE TO SAY, EVER???
Good grief. Listen, I understand people are afraid, and feel kind of helpless, and want to do SOMETHING, anything. I didn't say don't make care packages and send them off. I'm saying THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU'VE BEEN SAYING. If you believe quarantines and isolation are necessary to prevent contagion, then to be consistent you wouldn't want nursing homes and vulnerables to be getting ANYTHING THAT MIGHT BE CONTAMINATED including "care packages". I'm trying to encourage people to THINK THINK THINK about the information they are getting.
Look at the nationwide (and global) response to this thing. Ask yourself, does it REALLY MAKE SENSE? A viral contagion that literally is half as bad as influenza and the whole developed world goes into lockdown?
By all means make care packages. But don't start comparing "corona cases" to lepers.
That's a recipe for making people disappear in the middle of the night as Christians cheer the "removal of the lepers".
KeptByTheWord
03-21-2020, 08:20 AM
Can't find anything positive to say? Ever? Wow.
I start more threads here on Bible doctrine, the power of God, the Victory of our Saviour, than than just about ANYONE ON THIS FORUM.
I post more posts and threads on PRACTICAL APPLICATION OF FAITH AND SCRIPTURE than anyone here with the possible exception of brother Blume.
I have REPEATEDLY affirmed that Christians are the only wayfinders this world has. I have repeatedly encouraged everyone here to get back to the Bible in order that THEY PERSONALLY might be used by God to help somebody out.
But when I point out the INCONSISTENCY in someone's post I'm somehow the guy who NEVER HAS ANYTHING POSITIVE TO SAY, EVER???
Good grief. Listen, I understand people are afraid, and feel kind of helpless, and want to do SOMETHING, anything. I didn't say don't make care packages and send them off. I'm saying THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU'VE BEEN SAYING. If you believe quarantines and isolation are necessary to prevent contagion, then to be consistent you wouldn't want nursing homes and vulnerables to be getting ANYTHING THAT MIGHT BE CONTAMINATED including "care packages". I'm trying to encourage people to THINK THINK THINK about the information they are getting.
Look at the nationwide (and global) response to this thing. Ask yourself, does it REALLY MAKE SENSE? A viral contagion that literally is half as bad as influenza and the whole developed world goes into lockdown?
By all means make care packages. But don't start comparing "corona cases" to lepers.
That's a recipe for making people disappear in the middle of the night as Christians cheer the "removal of the lepers".
It's the underlying sarcasm that sets you up as smarter than me and everyone else who dares to share something that is not in your fear basket.
I know that care packages aren't saving the world. But what if it brings hope to some soul in a nursing home who has none? At least I can try. I don't expect you to do something like that.
I'm just saying, let's all be busy trying to do something. There is no way any of us can stop what is coming. But we can see the signs of the times. And I appreciate you digging for information and sharing. And I appreciate all the good words you do share.
Maybe all this is getting to all of us, and our nerves are a bit frayed.
Let's try for the positive spin.... we are living in exciting times, and we have been called to live in this generation for such a time as this. Things may be going up in smoke around us... but let's not cast our heads down in the sand with such fear that we are worthless. THIS is our hour to share the light and goodness of Jesus.
Pressing-On
03-21-2020, 08:22 AM
Can't find anything positive to say? Ever? Wow.
I start more threads here on Bible doctrine, the power of God, the Victory of our Saviour, than than just about ANYONE ON THIS FORUM.
People expect those with seemingly Bible knowledge to treat people with respect and kindness - patience. It looks like you get the letter of the Law, but not the Spirit of it.
KeptByTheWord
03-21-2020, 08:26 AM
If you believe quarantines and isolation are necessary to prevent contagion, then to be consistent you wouldn't want nursing homes and vulnerables to be getting ANYTHING THAT MIGHT BE CONTAMINATED including "care packages". I'm trying to encourage people to THINK THINK THINK about the information they are getting.
If you're going to take the fear to this degree, that even care packages should be banned because of contagion, what about the food they are getting? The health workers coming in who live in the community? I mean really?
Care packages aren't banned. Health workers are able to come and go. They are just trying to cut down on the amount of exposure to the most vulnerable, but there is no way anyone can live in a completely sterile world.
KeptByTheWord
03-21-2020, 08:28 AM
People expect those with seemingly Bible knowledge to treat people with respect and kindness - patience. It looks like you get the letter of the Law, but not the Spirit of it.
Agreed, most of the time, this is what comes across.
And then, he can really share some great, powerful stuff. I hope to see more of that. :thumbsup
Esaias
03-21-2020, 06:16 PM
People expect those with seemingly Bible knowledge to treat people with respect and kindness - patience. It looks like you get the letter of the Law, but not the Spirit of it.
Practice what you preach, sister.
Esaias
03-21-2020, 06:20 PM
If you're going to take the fear to this degree, that even care packages should be banned because of contagion, what about the food they are getting? The health workers coming in who live in the community? I mean really?
Care packages aren't banned. Health workers are able to come and go. They are just trying to cut down on the amount of exposure to the most vulnerable, but there is no way anyone can live in a completely sterile world.
*I'm* not taking "the fear to this level." That was YOU. Can you see what I'm trying to say? People are saying (you were one of them) that quarantine and isolation are necessary because of contagion, yet you want to do things that violate the very concepts of quarantine and contagion. THAT is what I was trying to point out.
Look at what's going on. Contagion contagion contagion but the responses by government AND people do not actually match what is being claimed. Hello? Does that not indicate something wrong with the thought flow here?
Pressing-On
03-21-2020, 07:09 PM
*I'm* not taking "the fear to this level." That was YOU. Can you see what I'm trying to say? People are saying (you were one of them) that quarantine and isolation are necessary because of contagion, yet you want to do things that violate the very concepts of quarantine and contagion. THAT is what I was trying to point out.
Look at what's going on. Contagion contagion contagion but the responses by government AND people do not actually match what is being claimed. Hello? Does that not indicate something wrong with the thought flow here?
“Care packages are not banned.” How is that violating anything?
Esaias
03-21-2020, 07:13 PM
“Care packages are not banned.” How is that violating anything?
It violates the CONCEPT that you and Kept and the Officials were pushing about the need for quarantine due to contagion.
Quarantine - genuine quarantine - means ISOLATION FROM ANY POSSIBLE VECTORS OF TRANSMISSION.
I am not the one arguing for quarantines and isolation, I am just arguing for CONSISTENCY in reasoning processes.
Pressing-On
03-21-2020, 08:21 PM
It violates the CONCEPT that you and Kept and the Officials were pushing about the need for quarantine due to contagion.
Quarantine - genuine quarantine - means ISOLATION FROM ANY POSSIBLE VECTORS OF TRANSMISSION.
I am not the one arguing for quarantines and isolation, I am just arguing for CONSISTENCY in reasoning processes.
But they don’t go inside the facility. They just leave the packages. If I am outside by myself, I am isolated.
Evang.Benincasa
03-21-2020, 09:08 PM
You can't find anything positive to say. Ever. I'm not evading the fact that there is something ugly at work beneath the surface. But why can't you agree at least that we can be doing something POSITIVE in face of all it?
I'm not denying something big is in the undercurrents, and all of us are trying to figure it out.
I'm glad we can share information as we come across it. It helps us all to be more aware.
BUT In the meantime, let's do all we can while the world flounders in this darkness to be the light that they need.
I think we need to share ideas, and see what we can do. Let's be the hands and feet of Jesus ministering to people who need Him. One idea may work for someone, and not the next person. I don't expect Bro. Esaias and Bro. Beni to send care packages to the nursing homes like I'm doing. But, there is something else they can do that I can't.
Let's all do something to make a difference! We are here for such a time as this!
Sending care packages to nursing homes because you worked in nursing homes. I am trying to help weightlifters who have been put out of their gyms. So aren't I doing the same thing as you? :nod
Esaias
03-21-2020, 10:28 PM
But they don’t go inside the facility. They just leave the packages. If I am outside by myself, I am isolated.
The stuff in the package goes inside, though, right? Was the stuff soaked in Clorix and packed in a Level4 biolab before being sent? No? Then it's a possible vector. See what I'm saying?
Nursing homes are horrendous threats to health to begin with, but that's another story.
That’s the purpose/intent of disinfectants. For now, IF the elderly and those w weak immune systems run out of food, they need to stay home, we(speaking of my wife and I and a few others) will get them food, and meds if needed, using as much sensible wisdom and caution as we can, even at the risk of spreading virus.
Birddog
03-22-2020, 08:57 AM
You are not understanding what Esaias is saying....
He is talking about how can you isolate totally when you have food coming from outside that has not been decontaminated?
Now, if you say that you are decreasing the amount..... but total isolation? Not even possible.
Pressing-On
03-22-2020, 09:18 AM
The stuff in the package goes inside, though, right? Was the stuff soaked in Clorix and packed in a Level4 biolab before being sent? No? Then it's a possible vector. See what I'm saying?
Nursing homes are horrendous threats to health to begin with, but that's another story.
As usual, you go to extremes. You don’t have to “soak” items in Clorox nor is it necessary to pack anything in a “Level4 bio lab”. You could easily disinfect any items while wearing a mask and gloves.
With so many people going online while self-isolating, we should do a much better job of representing what “Apostolic” really means. That should be our focus. This forum is pretty far from representing that with all the bickering, smart aleck remarks and the incessant “I can one up you”.
What a shame and a waste of time.
As usual, you go to extremes. You don’t have to “soak” items in Clorox nor is it necessary to pack anything in a “Level4 bio lab”. You could easily disinfect any items while wearing a mask and gloves.
With so many people going online while self-isolating, we should do a much better job of representing what “Apostolic” really means. That should be our focus. This forum is pretty far from representing that with all the bickering, smart aleck remarks and the incessant “I can one up you”.
What a shame and a waste of time.
:yourock
james34
03-22-2020, 11:46 AM
:yourock
Remember before the pandemic, when it took 2 to tango?
If we think we have entered into dialogue, that is (displeasing to God) we can by choice do as Christ did.
23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again;
but the following seems like a broad brush, that throws everyone under the bus and is reminiscent of the pot calling the kettle black.....>...>..>.>.>.>.
This forum is pretty far from representing that with all the bickering, smart aleck remarks and the incessant “I can one up you”.
Esaias
03-22-2020, 11:55 AM
As usual, you go to extremes. You don’t have to “soak” items in Clorox nor is it necessary to pack anything in a “Level4 bio lab”. You could easily disinfect any items while wearing a mask and gloves.
With so many people going online while self-isolating, we should do a much better job of representing what “Apostolic” really means. That should be our focus. This forum is pretty far from representing that with all the bickering, smart aleck remarks and the incessant “I can one up you”.
What a shame and a waste of time.
Yes, it apparently was a total waste of time trying to explain this to you. So, I bid you adieu.
Pressing-On
03-22-2020, 01:53 PM
Remember before the pandemic, when it took 2 to tango?
If we think we have entered into dialogue, that is (displeasing to God) we can by choice do as Christ did.
23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again;
but the following seems like a broad brush, that throws everyone under the bus and is reminiscent of the pot calling the kettle black.....>...>..>.>.>.>.
I've always noticed that people who don't want to change their behavior fall back on the scripture you cited.
Tithesmeister
03-22-2020, 02:48 PM
Does anyone know if Brother Spell is having church today?
james34
03-22-2020, 02:59 PM
I've always noticed that people who don't want to change their behavior fall back on the scripture you cited.
Have you ever noticed christians falling back on it?
n david
03-22-2020, 03:06 PM
Does anyone know if Brother Spell is having church today?
I believe he held a service outside today.
Pressing-On
03-22-2020, 03:27 PM
Have you ever noticed christians falling back on it?
Are you a Christian?
james34
03-22-2020, 03:45 PM
Are you a Christian?
If i am then it should be expected that I would fall back on the scriptures,no?
Evang.Benincasa
03-22-2020, 03:51 PM
Does anyone know if Brother Spell is having church today?
I thought he was taken to Dr Moreau’s Island?
Evang.Benincasa
03-22-2020, 03:52 PM
I believe he held a service outside today.
Good job! :highfive
Birddog
03-22-2020, 05:35 PM
I believe he held a service outside today.
Yes he did.
Probably didn't have the room to hold it in. All the folks that their regular church canceled... wanted to have live church.
n david
03-22-2020, 05:37 PM
Probably didn't have the room to hold it in. All the folks that their regular church canceled... wanted to have live church.
No, he spoke with state officials and came to a compromise.
Birddog
03-22-2020, 05:39 PM
No, he spoke with state officials and came to a compromise.
Actually that is a great idea.
Truthseeker
03-22-2020, 05:45 PM
No, he spoke with state officials and came to a compromise.
So he caved. :spit
Evang.Benincasa
03-22-2020, 06:22 PM
So he caved. :spit
Care to clarify?
james34
03-22-2020, 07:10 PM
So he caved. :spit
no they would still do this if it were raining, 10 degrees outside, lightning, 100 degrees outside, unless he wouldnt have and then it would be a cave.
n david
03-22-2020, 09:10 PM
Actually that is a great idea.
One of the suggestions was dumb ... they floated the idea of the church splitting up into groups of 50 all around the church campus (massive campus) in different rooms and everything to be in compliance with the 50 person rule.
That would have been even worse than being in the same room, IMO.
I appreciate that he didn't outright thumb his nose at them, but did attempt to work within (or around) the rules.
TakingDominion
03-22-2020, 09:20 PM
One of the suggestions was dumb ... they floated the idea of the church splitting up into groups of 50 all around the church campus (massive campus) in different rooms and everything to be in compliance with the 50 person rule.
That would have been even worse than being in the same room, IMO.
I appreciate that he didn't outright thumb his nose at them, but did attempt to work within (or around) the rules.
It will be interesting to see what they do now that Louisiana is now under stay-at-home guidelines.
KeptByTheWord
03-22-2020, 11:16 PM
*I'm* not taking "the fear to this level." That was YOU. Can you see what I'm trying to say? People are saying (you were one of them) that quarantine and isolation are necessary because of contagion, yet you want to do things that violate the very concepts of quarantine and contagion. THAT is what I was trying to point out.
Look at what's going on. Contagion contagion contagion but the responses by government AND people do not actually match what is being claimed. Hello? Does that not indicate something wrong with the thought flow here?
It violates the CONCEPT that you and Kept and the Officials were pushing about the need for quarantine due to contagion.
Quarantine - genuine quarantine - means ISOLATION FROM ANY POSSIBLE VECTORS OF TRANSMISSION.
I am not the one arguing for quarantines and isolation, I am just arguing for CONSISTENCY in reasoning processes.
The stuff in the package goes inside, though, right? Was the stuff soaked in Clorix and packed in a Level4 biolab before being sent? No? Then it's a possible vector. See what I'm saying?
Nursing homes are horrendous threats to health to begin with, but that's another story.
I think this discussion has gone off the deep-end! :foottap
We can't live in a safe bubble. There is no way to completely and totally isolate oneself from every single little thing that might harm us.
You missed the whole point anyway. The point was to find something to do to make a difference to someone who is suffering hardship because of all this. I'm making care packages just to try to make a difference for those needing encouragement.
What are you doing?
KeptByTheWord
03-22-2020, 11:19 PM
Sending care packages to nursing homes because you worked in nursing homes. I am trying to help weightlifters who have been put out of their gyms. So aren't I doing the same thing as you? :nod
I don't work in a nursing home. I'm just sending care packages to those who are shut-in, and can't get out. Just a little something to brighten their day.
Whatever you can do to encourage those around you who are discouraged or in hardship because of all this, then God bless you :thumbsup
KeptByTheWord
03-22-2020, 11:20 PM
No, he spoke with state officials and came to a compromise.
Tent meetings will have a revival then! :thumbsup
Truthseeker
03-23-2020, 03:32 AM
no they would still do this if it were raining, 10 degrees outside, lightning, 100 degrees outside, unless he wouldnt have and then it would be a cave.
The first stance was no one was going to stop them gathering when they gathered in the building. He stated it was their constitutional right. He caved in a sense he didnt continue his stance. Not saying it's bad to do the parking lot thing.
Birddog
03-23-2020, 06:14 AM
Where we are there is a 10 person rule. My immediate family has more than 10 people. So what did we do yesterday? Had regular church is what we did.
There is no pleasing the adversary and no compromising with false doctrines.
We will continue having church as usual, as long as we physically can. If they padlock the church building then we will figure out where to go from there.
diakonos
03-23-2020, 07:35 AM
I don't work in a nursing home. I'm just sending care packages to those who are shut-in, and can't get out. Just a little something to brighten their day.
Whatever you can do to encourage those around you who are discouraged or in hardship because of all this, then God bless you :thumbsup
I accept candy.
Sister Alvear
03-23-2020, 09:01 AM
Here in Brazil, we are taking food to as many as possible...it is really bad in the area where we live...of course we live in a very poor state.
Sister Alvear
03-23-2020, 09:03 AM
On my facebook I am asking for anyone to help us buy rice and things like that for the people in need. If you feel to help my Paypal is janalvear@aol.com...Thanks for prayers and any support.
Scott Pitta
03-24-2020, 05:24 PM
Willful negligence. Make the pastor and his deacons legally liable for the deaths that result from ignoring the risks of this pandemic.
Tithesmeister
03-24-2020, 05:39 PM
Willful negligence. Make the pastor and his deacons legally liable for the deaths that result from ignoring the risks of this pandemic.
Scott,
I’d rather agree with you than to disagree. But could you please explain to me how the pastor and elders could possibly be liable?
Are you talking about making a new law?
We are (presumably) talking about adults here. So if I decide to go to his church, how is he liable for a decision that I made? How are the elders responsible for a decision I made?
Am I not responsible for making my own decisions?
I’m not saying he has done the right thing. Or not. I’m just really trying to figure out how one adult can be held liable for the decision of another adult. Legally. Help me out here!
diakonos
03-24-2020, 05:45 PM
Scott,
I’d rather agree with you than to disagree. But could you please explain to me how the pastor and elders could possibly be liable?
Are you talking about making a new law?
We are (presumably) talking about adults here. So if I decide to go to his church, how is he liable for a decision that I made? How are the elders responsible for a decision I made?
Am I not responsible for making my own decisions?
I’m not saying he has done the right thing. Or not. I’m just really trying to figure out how one adult can be held liable for the decision of another adult. Legally. Help me out here!
He hates OP. :lol
Scott Pitta
03-24-2020, 06:08 PM
A highly contagious disease. The government says do not meet in large groups. If several people in the church, or directly connected to the church are infected and die, there should be accountability. Legal accountability.
I do not hate anything. Well, traffic. I don't like traffic.
Nicodemus1968
03-24-2020, 06:24 PM
Willful negligence. Make the pastor and his deacons legally liable for the deaths that result from ignoring the risks of this pandemic.
Can you make WalMart liable for the deaths that happen because people are shopping at Wal Mart that might be affected?
Tithesmeister
03-24-2020, 06:27 PM
Willful negligence. Make the pastor and his deacons legally liable for the deaths that result from ignoring the risks of this pandemic.
A highly contagious disease. The government says do not meet in large groups. If several people in the church, or directly connected to the church are infected and die, there should be accountability. Legal accountability.
I do not hate anything. Well, traffic. I don't like traffic.
I agree with the traffic thing. So we have common ground there.
But my question is specific.
How is Brother Spell responsible for a decision that I made?
Are you kidding?
I am an adult male. I make the decision to go to church. Nobody has the authority to force my decision. I am no child.
How is Brother Spell responsible/liable?
How about the other deacons/elders?
How are they liable?
I am not a slave. I am my own person.
Who is going to prosecute whom, and on what grounds? Because ultimately it is a legal matter. While I understand anybody can sue anyone, at anytime, for any reason, being found liable is another matter.
What would that look like?
It seems to me that you would be the laughingstock of the courtroom to attempt such a thing.
If mentally handicapped and/or elderly are involved....say picked up by church bus ministry...
And a pastors up there telling how “we ain’t skeert of no corona virus killing us, we have apostolic authority...just rap this prayer cloth around your neck and you’ll be fine...
And they end up dying from the virus that they for 100% certain got it there....
Their next of kin might go for the throat....so they might get somewhere
Outside of a possibility of that, I can’t see it...
Tithesmeister
03-24-2020, 06:46 PM
Can you make WalMart liable for the deaths that happen because people are shopping at Wal Mart that might be affected?
I believe you would be infinitely more likely to find Walmart liable than you would a church. Walmart is a for profit. The church is usually considered a nonprofit. It would be incredibly difficult to find Walmart liable, in my opinion. It would be extremely MORE difficult to find a pastor or elder liable, than Walmart. It certainly would never happen.
There is a reasonable expectation for Walmart to provide a healthy shopping experience.
A pastor? It would never happen. For what? Unlocking the doors? Failing to allow entrance to a legal adult?
An elder liable? Even more unlikely.
The church itself? What if I am part of the church? Would I be suing myself? That would be awkward!
Tithesmeister
03-24-2020, 06:48 PM
If mentally handicapped and/or elderly are involved....say picked up by church bus ministry...
And a pastors up there telling how “we ain’t skeert of no corona virus killing us, we have apostolic authority...just rap this prayer cloth around your neck and you’ll be fine...
And they end up dying from the virus that they for 100% certain got it there....
Their next of kin might go for the throat....
Outside of a possibility of that, I can’t see it...
In the case of children? I could see that. Otherwise mentally incompetent? Perhaps.
Legal adults? Not happening.
In the case of children? I could see that. Otherwise mentally incompetent? Perhaps.
Legal adults? Not happening.
Agreed.
A highly contagious disease. The government says do not meet in large groups. If several people in the church, or directly connected to the church are infected and die, there should be accountability. Legal accountability.
I do not hate anything. Well, traffic. I don't like traffic.
Forgetting legal liability for a moment what are you telling your community when you don't care enough about them to take the precautions medical experts and the government is asking you to do TEMPORARILY to suppress a deadly virus?
I could see this kind of rebellion if the government had announced some kind of permanent ban against churches meeting but to ask for a temporary one in these circumstances is not only reasonable but prudent.
This news story disappointed me greatly. I don't think the Spell's are bad people and in fact people I respect think the world of them. I just think they made a badly misguided judgement. I read one news story saying Tony Spell thinks the whole coronovirus thing is just a political thing and I guess if you are that kind of conspiracy theorist maybe in your own mind you could justify doing what he did.
Tithesmeister
03-24-2020, 10:10 PM
Forgetting legal liability for a moment what are you telling your community when you don't care enough about them to take the precautions medical experts and the government is asking you to do TEMPORARILY to suppress a deadly virus?
I could see this kind of rebellion if the government had announced some kind of permanent ban against churches meeting but to ask for a temporary one in these circumstances is not only reasonable but prudent.
This news story disappointed me greatly. I don't think the Spell's are bad people and in fact people I respect think the world of them. I just think they made a badly misguided judgement. I read one news story saying Tony Spell thinks the whole coronovirus thing is just a political thing and I guess if you are that kind of conspiracy theorist maybe in your own mind you could justify doing what he did.
I may agree with you. It may or may not be the prudent thing to do. But I don’t see it as something that creates liability for the pastor, elders, or the church. Just because they open the church doors, doesn’t mean they are liable for the decisions of a thousand people. People are responsible for their own decisions. If the blind, follow the blind, well maybe they shouldn’t be doing that.
hometown guy
03-24-2020, 10:11 PM
A highly contagious disease. The government says do not meet in large groups. If several people in the church, or directly connected to the church are infected and die, there should be accountability. Legal accountability.
I do not hate anything. Well, traffic. I don't like traffic.
He is living what he believes. He told them the church is essential and when every store is closed down then he will close but as long as Walmart, target, planed parenthood ect are open then he will be open. Sounds fair to me. He is not making anyone come. It all their own choices. Thank God for men of God love tony spell that won’t bend to anyone but God.
hometown guy
03-24-2020, 10:13 PM
Forgetting legal liability for a moment what are you telling your community when you don't care enough about them to take the precautions medical experts and the government is asking you to do TEMPORARILY to suppress a deadly virus?
I could see this kind of rebellion if the government had announced some kind of permanent ban against churches meeting but to ask for a temporary one in these circumstances is not only reasonable but prudent.
This news story disappointed me greatly. I don't think the Spell's are bad people and in fact people I respect think the world of them. I just think they made a badly misguided judgement. I read one news story saying Tony Spell thinks the whole coronovirus thing is just a political thing and I guess if you are that kind of conspiracy theorist maybe in your own mind you could justify doing what he did.
Search it... he did not say it and even clarified what he said. He believes the virus is real. He just thinks the hysteria is politically motivated. And so do I when they close down a whole country for under 700 deaths.
Nicodemus1968
03-24-2020, 10:47 PM
Forgetting legal liability for a moment what are you telling your community when you don't care enough about them to take the precautions medical experts and the government is asking you to do TEMPORARILY to suppress a deadly virus?
I could see this kind of rebellion if the government had announced some kind of permanent ban against churches meeting but to ask for a temporary one in these circumstances is not only reasonable but prudent.
This news story disappointed me greatly. I don't think the Spell's are bad people and in fact people I respect think the world of them. I just think they made a badly misguided judgement. I read one news story saying Tony Spell thinks the whole coronovirus thing is just a political thing and I guess if you are that kind of conspiracy theorist maybe in your own mind you could justify doing what he did.
There is a reason for Bro. Spell did what he did. When I read the article it didn’t seem like a Bro. standing in the face of opposition. I guess call it a hunch, I just feel as if he may of felt he needed to show the organization who he is, political move, maybe? I could be dead wrong, but it doesn’t seem right to me doing what he did.
Esaias
03-24-2020, 11:14 PM
If Scott and CC are against it, I'm for it.
/thread
Scott Pitta
03-25-2020, 01:24 AM
Lets look at this from a different angle.
It is fellowship Sunday. People are bringing in food for the lunch. Someone left out the egg salad on the counter and it spoiled.
Pastor Smith says to serve it anyway and if people get sick, he can pray for them.
This is willful neglect.
Pastor Smith gets a phone call from a church family parent. The parent informs pastor that their kids have head lice. Can they come to Sunday School anyway ?
Pastor approves and if the lice is spread to other children, God will provide.
The prudent see danger and take refuge,
but the simple keep going and pay the penalty.
Esaias
03-25-2020, 02:02 AM
Proverbs 22:13 KJV
The slothful man saith, There is a lion without, I shall be slain in the streets.
Esaias
03-25-2020, 02:02 AM
Proverbs 26:13 KJV
The slothful man saith, There is a lion in the way; a lion is in the streets.
Esaias
03-25-2020, 02:04 AM
Lets look at this from a different angle.
It is fellowship Sunday. People are bringing in food for the lunch. Someone left out the egg salad on the counter and it spoiled.
Pastor Smith says to serve it anyway and if people get sick, he can pray for them.
This is willful neglect.
Pastor Smith gets a phone call from a church family parent. The parent informs pastor that their kids have head lice. Can they come to Sunday School anyway ?
Pastor approves and if the lice is spread to other children, God will provide.
The prudent see danger and take refuge,
but the simple keep going and pay the penalty.
Incorrect analogies.
More like:
Sister Suzy calls pastor and says "Some kid might have headlice, should we cancel church?" Pastor Scott Pita says yes, church is cancelled.
n david
03-25-2020, 02:41 AM
Incorrect analogies.
More like:
Sister Suzy calls pastor and says "Some kid might have headlice, should we cancel church?" Pastor Scott Pita says yes, church is cancelled.
I have never heard of anyone dying from headlice.
diakonos
03-25-2020, 04:27 AM
There is a reason for Bro. Spell did what he did. When I read the article it didn’t seem like a Bro. standing in the face of opposition. I guess call it a hunch, I just feel as if he may of felt he needed to show the organization who he is, political move, maybe? I could be dead wrong, but it doesn’t seem right to me doing what he did.
Really!?
hometown guy
03-25-2020, 08:51 AM
There is a reason for Bro. Spell did what he did. When I read the article it didn’t seem like a Bro. standing in the face of opposition. I guess call it a hunch, I just feel as if he may of felt he needed to show the organization who he is, political move, maybe? I could be dead wrong, but it doesn’t seem right to me doing what he did.
If there was a reason I highly doubt it would be trying to show off to the Wpf... he has a well know and respected name already among the WPF.
consapente89
03-25-2020, 08:53 AM
There is a reason for Bro. Spell did what he did. When I read the article it didn’t seem like a Bro. standing in the face of opposition. I guess call it a hunch, I just feel as if he may of felt he needed to show the organization who he is, political move, maybe? I could be dead wrong, but it doesn’t seem right to me doing what he did.
No disrespect intended, but I don’t think I would post that kind of accusation based off of a hunch.
hometown guy
03-25-2020, 08:54 AM
Lets look at this from a different angle.
It is fellowship Sunday. People are bringing in food for the lunch. Someone left out the egg salad on the counter and it spoiled.
Pastor Smith says to serve it anyway and if people get sick, he can pray for them.
This is willful neglect.
Pastor Smith gets a phone call from a church family parent. The parent informs pastor that their kids have head lice. Can they come to Sunday School anyway ?
Pastor approves and if the lice is spread to other children, God will provide.
The prudent see danger and take refuge,
but the simple keep going and pay the penalty.
Not even in the same category.
Nicodemus1968
03-25-2020, 09:31 AM
No disrespect intended, but I don’t think I would post that kind of accusation based off of a hunch.
If I offended I’m sorry it wasn’t my intention. I’m just saying I think there is something else going on. In the near future we’ll see if I was wrong or correct. Lord Bless
Nicodemus1968
03-25-2020, 09:32 AM
Really!?
Yes sir. I’m not trying to offend, just that’s what I felt when I read the article.
Nicodemus1968
03-25-2020, 09:32 AM
If there was a reason I highly doubt it would be trying to show off to the Wpf... he has a well know and respected name already among the WPF.
Your probably right.
Esaias
03-25-2020, 11:07 AM
I have never heard of anyone dying from headlice.
Sister Suzy: "Pastor, somebody might come to church with influenza, should we just cancel church?"
Pastor Scott: "Yep, services are cancelled. Better safe than sorry."
From good ol NBC:
“An online petition calling for Spell to be arrested and prosecuted has more than 4,000 signatures. The petition claims 1,800 people attended Spell's service on Sunday.
The petition says the pastor should be "charged with 1800 counts of reckless endangerment for a start, for the countless lives he will be brutalizing and even ending with his selfishness and ignorance."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1168501
https://www.change.org/p/john-bel-edwards-we-demand-the-prosecution-of-pastor-spell-of-life-tabernacle-church?source_location=topic_page&use_react=false
————————-
They’re at just under 5K sigs so far and climbing...
1800 counts?
I’d say that’s going for the throat...
Mercy....
aegsm76
03-25-2020, 01:05 PM
There is a reason for Bro. Spell did what he did. When I read the article it didn’t seem like a Bro. standing in the face of opposition. I guess call it a hunch, I just feel as if he may of felt he needed to show the organization who he is, political move, maybe? I could be dead wrong, but it doesn’t seem right to me doing what he did.
Nico - I take it you do not know him. If you did, you would know that he is not worried about what people believe. He is concerned about souls and what God desires.
Now, our church has gone to online, but I have no concerns about Bro. Spell's motives.
Part of me wishes I had his faith and boldness, but God has not spoken to me that way!
Nicodemus1968
03-25-2020, 01:27 PM
Nico - I take it you do not know him. If you did, you would know that he is not worried about what people believe. He is concerned about souls and what God desires.
Now, our church has gone to online, but I have no concerns about Bro. Spell's motives.
Part of me wishes I had his faith and boldness, but God has not spoken to me that way!
I must be wrong. Like I said something just didn’t seem right to me when I read that article. I’ve been wrong before, Gods still good, Bro. Spell will be in my prayers.
consapente89
03-25-2020, 01:33 PM
If I offended I’m sorry it wasn’t my intention. I’m just saying I think there is something else going on. In the near future we’ll see if I was wrong or correct. Lord Bless
It's all good.
Tithesmeister
03-25-2020, 01:44 PM
From good ol NBC:
“An online petition calling for Spell to be arrested and prosecuted has more than 4,000 signatures. The petition claims 1,800 people attended Spell's service on Sunday.
The petition says the pastor should be "charged with 1800 counts of reckless endangerment for a start, for the countless lives he will be brutalizing and even ending with his selfishness and ignorance."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1168501
https://www.change.org/p/john-bel-edwards-we-demand-the-prosecution-of-pastor-spell-of-life-tabernacle-church?source_location=topic_page&use_react=false
————————-
They’re at just under 5K sigs so far and climbing...
1800 counts?
I’d say that’s going for the throat...
Mercy....
Good luck with that! Fortunately we aren’t charged because of online petitions. Can you imagine?
Judge: Prosecutor, what are your grounds?
Prosecutor: I’d like to enter these five thousand (twenty thousand, a million) online signatures as evidence of reckless endangerment, your honor.
Judge: What?!
hometown guy
03-25-2020, 02:15 PM
Nico - I take it you do not know him. If you did, you would know that he is not worried about what people believe. He is concerned about souls and what God desires.
Now, our church has gone to online, but I have no concerns about Bro. Spell's motives.
Part of me wishes I had his faith and boldness, but God has not spoken to me that way!
I agree. I don’t know him personally because he is just not part of our fellowship but I have friends that are connected to him. Some of my friends are not happy with his decision and some are 100% behind him. I think he is doing what he feels God wants him to do. Hats off to him. He will be preaching one of the biggest conservative independent conference on the the west coast in October. I think the numbers in attendance will go up now.
Good luck with that! Fortunately we aren’t charged because of online petitions. Can you imagine?
Judge: Prosecutor, what are your grounds?
Prosecutor: I’d like to enter these five thousand (twenty thousand, a million) online signatures as evidence of reckless endangerment, your honor.
Judge: What?!
Yeah, I’m thinking he did not hold them hostage, not break any laws...
diakonos
03-25-2020, 03:14 PM
Yes sir. I’m not trying to offend, just that’s what I felt when I read the article.
Stop posting your feelings and eat some chocolate.
diakonos
03-25-2020, 03:16 PM
Sister Suzy: "Pastor, somebody might come to church with influenza, should we just cancel church?"
Pastor Scott: "Yep, services are cancelled. Better safe than sorry."
Right. Can’t believe the apostolics on board with this. They wouldn’t support a nationwide lockdown for the flu or the cold.
n david
03-26-2020, 09:42 AM
Right. Can’t believe the apostolics on board with this. They wouldn’t support a nationwide lockdown for the flu or the cold.
Tony Spell claimed he wouldn't, then said his lawyers told him not to discuss whether or not he was having church Tuesday night. He had service as usual.
I'm done with pretending this is just a cold or flu. It's getting too close and too personal with too many friends getting it.
Eli Hernandez is closer with my brother, but I've met him. He's in ICU, sedated and on a ventilator because his lungs aren't functioning. I was surprised this morning when I read about The Life Church of Glenview and how they have over 40 in their church infected with the virus and Hernandez was there preaching for them!
There's another church, non A/P, which kept having services and now the Pastor, his wife and a dozen or more of their congregation is either at home quarantined or in the hospital sick with the virus.
Closer to home, there's a UPC church near here who had streaming service, but allowed the full praise team and musicians and sound team to attend for the service. One of the sound guys has been sick with a fever, but came anyway; the Pastor has been sick with a fever, but was there (his wife is sick and stayed home); they had an evangelist there to help spread the Gospel and the virus once they leave. I have family who attend there, their 4 kids are considered high risk.
Use common sense, people. If you have a fever, don't be going around other people.
Sister Alvear
03-26-2020, 09:53 AM
goodness...where is common sense?
n david
03-26-2020, 10:22 AM
Tony Spell claimed he wouldn't, then said his lawyers told him not to discuss whether or not he was having church Tuesday night. He had service as usual.
""Tuesday afternoon, Pastor Tony Spell said, due to negativity online, the service would not go on.
“There’s nothing you can say on why you cancelled.
I’m not going to say, my lawyers have advised me not to comment.”"
""Prior to the alleged service, Spell said, he would be turning people around but video shows people walking inside. Spell then asked our crew to leave.""
IF true, this isn't good. It's a sin to lie. It's a sin to deceive.
Scott Pitta
03-26-2020, 10:33 AM
I ran across an article from 1899 that describes a church that believed in faith healing and discouraged doctors.
5 members of the church had died from treatable diseases. Family members of each of the 5 were interviewed. As was the physical degeneration of the deceased prior to their deaths.
The church leaders had little to say to defend either their actions or the deadly results of their "ministry".
No one wants that kind of results, reputation, or press coverage.
Get professional medical help. Do what the doctors say. If God intervenes, great.
Meeting in large groups in close proximity during a pandemic can have the same results of drinking cool aid from Jim Jones.
Esaias
03-26-2020, 10:53 AM
Tony Spell claimed he wouldn't, then said his lawyers told him not to discuss whether or not he was having church Tuesday night. He had service as usual.
I'm done with pretending this is just a cold or flu. It's getting too close and too personal with too many friends getting it.
Eli Hernandez is closer with my brother, but I've met him. He's in ICU, sedated and on a ventilator because his lungs aren't functioning. I was surprised this morning when I read about The Life Church of Glenview and how they have over 40 in their church infected with the virus and Hernandez was there preaching for them!
There's another church, non A/P, which kept having services and now the Pastor, his wife and a dozen or more of their congregation is either at home quarantined or in the hospital sick with the virus.
Closer to home, there's a UPC church near here who had streaming service, but allowed the full praise team and musicians and sound team to attend for the service. One of the sound guys has been sick with a fever, but came anyway; the Pastor has been sick with a fever, but was there (his wife is sick and stayed home); they had an evangelist there to help spread the Gospel and the virus once they leave. I have family who attend there, their 4 kids are considered high risk.
Use common sense, people. If you have a fever, don't be going around other people.
The rapidity of mass global infection indicates it did not just originate in some Patient Zero in Wuhan several months ago.
Freeindeed
03-26-2020, 01:10 PM
The rapidity of mass global infection indicates it did not just originate in some Patient Zero in Wuhan several months ago.
Exactly
hometown guy
03-26-2020, 01:29 PM
goodness...where is common sense?
So are you saying bro Spell isn’t using common sense?
n david
03-26-2020, 01:48 PM
So are you saying bro Spell isn’t using common sense?
There's an Apostolic church and a non-A/P church, one with 43 sick with the virus and one with a few dozen sick with the virus.
Yes, if he's continuing to have regular services, he is not using common sense.
aegsm76
03-26-2020, 02:54 PM
The rapidity of mass global infection indicates it did not just originate in some Patient Zero in Wuhan several months ago.
Except for the many reports tracking back infections to people who had traveled from or through Wuhan, during that time.
diakonos
03-26-2020, 03:01 PM
Saw interview of Tony Spell by Dr. Phil... can’t find the link.
Tithesmeister
03-26-2020, 03:42 PM
Saw interview of Tony Spell by Dr. Phil... can’t find the link.
https://www.distractify.com/p/pastor-tony-spell-arrested
Here’s the link. It mentions Brother Spell being arrested. I’m not aware of that happening. It may need to be fact checked.
n david
03-26-2020, 04:11 PM
https://www.distractify.com/p/pastor-tony-spell-arrested
Here’s the link. It mentions Brother Spell being arrested. I’m not aware of that happening. It may need to be fact checked.
Videos at the link below. No mention of any arrest, btw.
https://www.drphil.com/videos/pastor-says-its-a-persecution-of-the-faith-for-him-to-be-asked-to-close-church-doors-during/
https://www.drphil.com/videos/pastor-who-insists-services-need-to-continue-during-coronavirus-pandemic-help-me-instead-of/
Dr. Phil agrees with Spell continuing to minister to people, saying suicides, stress, and pressures people are facing require help for them. He urged using technology as much as possible to protect people. Spell countered that there are many poor in his community which don't have the available technology.
Dr Phil: "I do believe in the power of the Lord, but I'm one of those people that believes pray to God but row for the shore. He gave us arms and He gave us oars, we've got to help ourselves as well."
n david
03-26-2020, 04:19 PM
That was a good interview by Spell and Dr. Phil.
Sister Alvear
03-26-2020, 05:40 PM
Nothing personal against Pastor Spell but I do think we should obey the laws of the land as far as possible. We are under a mandate NOT to open our churches for services and we are obeying...I only stated my personal opinion. I am praying no one catches this virus there among his people. He is a wonderful person and comes from a wonderful family.
Esaias
03-26-2020, 06:26 PM
Except for the many reports tracking back infections to people who had traveled from or through Wuhan, during that time.
But that's just it. This thing is popping up in so many places so widely that the official timeline is waaaaay off.
Evang.Benincasa
03-26-2020, 07:25 PM
Nothing personal against Pastor Spell but I do think we should obey the laws of the land as far as possible. We are under a mandate NOT to open our churches for services and we are obeying...I only stated my personal opinion. I am praying no one catches this virus there among his people. He is a wonderful person and comes from a wonderful family.
Guess what sis, you take care of your people and let him take care of his people. He won't post about you, and you won't post about him.
consapente89
03-26-2020, 08:24 PM
Nothing personal against Pastor Spell but I do think we should obey the laws of the land as far as possible. We are under a mandate NOT to open our churches for services and we are obeying...I only stated my personal opinion. I am praying no one catches this virus there among his people. He is a wonderful person and comes from a wonderful family.
God bless you for complying. God bless Brother Spell for resisting. There is a time to obey and there is certainly a time to resist. Perhaps your compliance will give you a witness and souls will be won. Perhaps Brother Spell’s resistance will give him a witness and souls will be one. Let every Pastor prayerfully chose for himself the direction he will lead the church God has placed in his care. Certainly, if Brother Spell feels that this law is infringing on his and his church’s religious liberty, he has every right to resist it! If you do not feel the laws there are infringing on your religious liberty, then by all means, comply.
coksiw
03-26-2020, 10:23 PM
This is not an attack on the church. It is a community effort to avoid flooding the hospitals.
The assemblies can definitely have churches if they split in home groups or split the Sunday service in smaller many services on Sunday.
They can still have church and everything and be of good testimony to the community of doing good.
There is not need for mass gatherings in times like this. The point is not fear of death, but to help the community to not flood the hospitals.
Esaias
03-26-2020, 10:45 PM
This is not an attack on the church. It is a community effort to avoid flooding the hospitals.
The assemblies can definitely have churches if they split in home groups or split the Sunday service in smaller many services on Sunday.
They can still have church and everything and be of good testimony to the community of doing good.
There is not need for mass gatherings in times like this. The point is not fear of death, but to help the community to not flood the hospitals.
Why is Target still open for business then?
coksiw
03-26-2020, 10:53 PM
Why is Target still open for business then?
Target does not gather hundreds of people on a compact space. In fact groceries stores with compact space are controlling at their door the number of people they have at once inside the store.
If the church is so crazy to go to the building, what about splitting the service throughout the day to have a smaller number if people at once?
KeptByTheWord
03-26-2020, 11:45 PM
If the church is so crazy to go to the building, what about splitting the service throughout the day to have a smaller number if people at once?
I mentioned earlier in a post about having churches open for 24 hours. I don't suppose it is realistic for most churches to do this. But a possibility to consider in these strange times.
Some churches are having open prayer meetings where people can come and go.
hometown guy
03-26-2020, 11:48 PM
Nothing personal against Pastor Spell but I do think we should obey the laws of the land as far as possible. We are under a mandate NOT to open our churches for services and we are obeying...I only stated my personal opinion. I am praying no one catches this virus there among his people. He is a wonderful person and comes from a wonderful family.
It sure did sound pretty personal
KeptByTheWord
03-27-2020, 12:04 AM
That was a good interview by Spell and Dr. Phil.
I agree, a good interview.
Having everyone stay home for a 2-week period is tough to do, but for 2-weeks is doable.
I agree with a point Bro. Spell makes, but I think it would be better implemented after the 2-week quarantine period. People could then be screened by doctors/nurses before coming in the building, making sure they don't have a temperature. Have the elderly and immune-compromised folks to continue to stay at home until the virus runs out of steam.
Putting these guidelines in place for churches and large gatherings will no doubt be the next step of action once the bans for gatherings are lifted that we have now.
Sister Alvear
03-27-2020, 12:46 AM
Here there is a 10 thousand dollar fine if we disobey!
Scott Pitta
03-27-2020, 01:38 AM
Forget the fines. Multiple deaths of members and those who we are supposed to be reaching out to with hope are real risks pastors should avoid.
Having church during a pandemic sends a clear message to the community: we don't care if you live or die.
Forget the fines. Multiple deaths of members and those who we are supposed to be reaching out to with hope are real risks pastors should avoid.
Having church during a pandemic sends a clear message to the community: we don't care if you live or die.
Scripture says don’t forsake our assembling, you say forsake our assembling.
I think a creative way to assemble is the answer...maybe w rotating small numbers w the body of Christ, wherever they can...our homes, in the back 40 around a fire pit, a church bldg, ... wherever. But we must not forsake gathering in His name.
Scripture doesn’t give a list of “Unless”’s.
Evang.Benincasa
03-27-2020, 06:07 AM
Forget the fines. Multiple deaths of members and those who we are supposed to be reaching out to with hope are real risks pastors should avoid.
Having church during a pandemic sends a clear message to the community: we don't care if you live or die.
Scott don’t forget to warn the pregnant women not to drink the water.
coksiw
03-27-2020, 09:20 AM
Scripture says don’t forsake our assembling, you say forsake our assembling.
I think a creative way to assemble is the answer...maybe w rotating small numbers w the body of Christ, wherever they can...our homes, in the back 40 around a fire pit, a church bldg, ... wherever. But we must not forsake gathering in His name.
Scripture doesn’t give a list of “Unless”’s.
I agree, we should somehow keep assembling as this can take months. It won’t likely be just one week of no service. We just gotta get creative.
If 10 in a small group get the virus at least we are not contributing with flooding the hospitals. Now if we get 100 together and 50 get it and people know that we were still gathering the community will look at us not as victims of a gov’t persecution but as negligent and responsible for flooding the hospitals.
Tithesmeister
03-27-2020, 10:25 AM
I agree, we should somehow keep assembling as this can take months. It won’t likely be just one week of no service. We just gotta get creative.
If 10 in a small group get the virus at least we are not contributing with flooding the hospitals. Now if we get 100 together and 50 get it and people know that we were still gathering the community will look at us not as victims of a gov’t persecution but as negligent and responsible for flooding the hospitals.
What is the definition of forsake?
If your wife gives birth and you miss Wednesday night service one time, have you forsaken the assembly?
Merriam Webster
Forsake: to renounce or turn away from entirely
Sorry to be a party pooper, but words have meanings.
Truthseeker
03-27-2020, 12:07 PM
It mentions not forsaking assembly themsleves so much the more as they see the day approaching? What day were they to see?
diakonos
03-27-2020, 01:51 PM
I’m not having a melt down. :lol Matter of fact, just yesterday at work I was singing unto the Lord until some glossolalia came out... Whoops! How embarrassing. :hanky
Everyone is wearing earplugs anyway... and the machinery is loud. So... :happydance
Esaias
03-27-2020, 06:27 PM
Forget the fines. Multiple deaths of members and those who we are supposed to be reaching out to with hope are real risks pastors should avoid.
Having church during a pandemic sends a clear message to the community: we don't care if you live or die.
Thankfully the opinions of communists like yourself don't matter to lots of people.
Esaias
03-27-2020, 06:33 PM
I didn't know Scott wrote for the New York Times?
The Road to Coronavirus Hell Was Paved by Evangelicals
Trump’s response to the pandemic has been haunted by the science denialism of his ultraconservative religious allies.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/27/opinion/coronavirus-trump-evangelicals.html
coksiw
03-27-2020, 06:57 PM
I didn't know Scott wrote for the New York Times?
The Road to Coronavirus Hell Was Paved by Evangelicals
Trump’s response to the pandemic has been haunted by the science denialism of his ultraconservative religious allies.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/27/opinion/coronavirus-trump-evangelicals.html
That article is full of hate.
Scott Pitta
03-27-2020, 07:42 PM
I am not a communist.
james34
03-27-2020, 08:44 PM
If it waddles like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck....we get the picture
Esaias
03-27-2020, 09:53 PM
I am not a communist.
And Nixon was not a crook, and Clinton did not etc.
aegsm76
03-28-2020, 09:57 AM
I am not a communist.
Scott, I believe you.
But, you do not appear to be a capitalist, either!
hometown guy
03-28-2020, 07:53 PM
Awesome interview...
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-41-tony-spell/id1472945688?i=1000469771637
Evang.Benincasa
03-28-2020, 09:02 PM
I am not a communist.
No, your a conformist.
As goes NPR goes you.
coksiw
03-30-2020, 12:35 PM
Awesome interview...
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-41-tony-spell/id1472945688?i=1000469771637
I think he is being a little bit naive. The church that faced persecution during the first century stopped mass gatherings. They met in home and catacombs. So were they disobeying God for changing their meeting practices? This is happening because of Him not having experience overseas. He is equating "forsake not assembling" with massive gatherings. When he goes through Rom 13 exposition, he goes really off, with allegorical interpretation included. I hope everything ends well over there and they have peace.
diakonos
03-30-2020, 01:25 PM
I think he is being a little bit naive. The church that faced persecution during the first century stopped mass gatherings. They met in home and catacombs. So were they disobeying God for changing their meeting practices? This is happening because of Him not having experience overseas. He is equating "forsake not assembling" with massive gatherings. When he goes through Rom 13 exposition, he goes really off, with allegorical interpretation included. I hope everything ends well over there and they have peace.
You raise a good point.
hometown guy
03-30-2020, 02:01 PM
They had 10 get the Holy Ghost and 7 baptized In the name of Jesus this past Sunday morning so I think it’s going pretty good for him.
diakonos
03-30-2020, 02:14 PM
They had 10 get the Holy Ghost and 7 baptized In the name of Jesus this past Sunday morning so I think it’s going pretty good for him.
Excellent news
coksiw
03-30-2020, 02:26 PM
They had 10 get the Holy Ghost and 7 baptized In the name of Jesus this past Sunday morning so I think it’s going pretty good for him.
The name of the Lord is being exalted, and the Gospel is being preached, people are coming to God sincerely, the Lord is going to respond to it. It is because of the Lord's name brother. God can still use us in our imperfections.
hometown guy
03-30-2020, 02:31 PM
The name of the Lord is being exalted, and the Gospel is being preached, people are coming to God sincerely, the Lord is going to respond to it. It is because of the Lord's name brother. God can still use us in our imperfections, see Trinitarian Pentecostals performing healing in Jesus' name and people getting the Holy Spirit in there assemblies as well.
So shouldn’t we all being rejoicing with them? I admit I don’t know all churches but I have yet to hear of any sinner sitting at home listening to churches online that have got the Holy Ghost... a few backsliders yes but not sinners.
coksiw
03-30-2020, 02:46 PM
So shouldn’t we all being rejoicing with them? I admit I don’t know all churches but I have yet to hear of any sinner sitting at home listening to churches online that have got the Holy Ghost... a few backsliders yes but not sinners.
I do rejoice but the question at hand is if we should all do the same, and if we are being fearful and disobedient and he is having more faith and obedience than everyone else.
During roman persecution they didn’t have open large church buildings, large congregations, church websites, phones, google maps, and yet they managed to spread like fire. How did they do it then?
I think we are limiting ourselves to our own cultural experience and consider the rest of methods as ineffective or even impossible.
diakonos
03-30-2020, 02:53 PM
The name of the Lord is being exalted, and the Gospel is being preached, people are coming to God sincerely, the Lord is going to respond to it. It is because of the Lord's name brother. God can still use us in our imperfections.
What is that supposed to mean, imperfections? Ahh, because he didn’t bow to Caesar?
coksiw
03-30-2020, 02:58 PM
What is that supposed to mean, imperfections? Ahh, because he didn’t bow to Caesar?
You consider closing the church building during this time bowing to Caesar?
diakonos
03-30-2020, 03:00 PM
You consider closing the church building during this time bowing to Caesar?
To those that believe that there is something greater going on behind the scene, to close would be bowing to Caesar. So, yes.
“Safety” is not more important than freedom. Everyone complied with this order with little to resistance.
coksiw
03-30-2020, 03:06 PM
To those that believe that there is something greater going on behind the scene, to close would be bowing to Caesar. So, yes.
“Safety” is not more important than freedom. Everyone complied with this order with little to resistance.
I can turn the table around and say that you love your building and you traditions much more than the saints and the community by not finding a middle ground to not put your saints in front of the sword and to not flood the hospital beds for the rest of the community, with a total disregard for those doctors and nurses that are risking their lives to save others (some that the Christians used to do during the Cyprian Plague). What about you open the church with only you in it and invite sinners to come see you? Have a small team in the church building and tell them that it is open for healing of the sick and ministering? You can still use your building as an evangelistic and ministering tool if you want to.
Scott Pitta
03-30-2020, 03:58 PM
Members can visit the sick and let God heal those with the disease afflicting our nation. This is a pragmatic approach to the pandemic.
diakonos
03-30-2020, 04:41 PM
I can turn the table around and say that you love your building and you traditions much more than the saints and the community by not finding a middle ground to not put your saints in front of the sword and to not flood the hospital beds for the rest of the community, with a total disregard for those doctors and nurses that are risking their lives to save others (some that the Christians used to do during the Cyprian Plague). What about you open the church with only you in it and invite sinners to come see you? Have a small team in the church building and tell them that it is open for healing of the sick and ministering? You can still use your building as an evangelistic and ministering tool if you want to.
I don’t have a building so take your rant somewhere else.
Amanah
03-30-2020, 07:58 PM
Florida pastor arrested
Pastor Rodney Howard-Browne said he wouldn't close the doors of his Tampa, Florida, megachurch until the End Times begin. The police weren't willing to wait that long.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/30/us/florida-pastor-arrested-river-church/index.html
Evang.Benincasa
03-30-2020, 09:33 PM
Florida pastor arrested
Pastor Rodney Howard-Browne said he wouldn't close the doors of his Tampa, Florida, megachurch until the End Times begin. The police weren't willing to wait that long.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/30/us/florida-pastor-arrested-river-church/index.html
Rodney Howard Browne probably called the cops himself, and the television station to be there as the cops showed up. He is a publicity whore, come on people there are bigger things a foot than this flu virus. But, everyone wants to eat the pabulum. Keep reading and watching the news I can see it's working.
Evang.Benincasa
03-30-2020, 09:34 PM
Members can visit the sick and let God heal those with the disease afflicting our nation. This is a pragmatic approach to the pandemic.
You don't believe prayer can heal, and you most likely don't believe that demons are real.
Scott Pitta
03-30-2020, 11:25 PM
I believe in prayer and I am aware demons are real.
hometown guy
03-30-2020, 11:47 PM
You don't believe prayer can heal, and you most likely don't believe that demons are real.
I believe in prayer and I am aware demons are real.
But do you believe prayer can heal?
Scott Pitta
03-30-2020, 11:59 PM
Absolutely.
Amanah
03-31-2020, 03:24 AM
Rodney Howard Browne probably called the cops himself, and the television station to be there as the cops showed up. He is a publicity whore, come on people there are bigger things a foot than this flu virus. But, everyone wants to eat the pabulum. Keep reading and watching the news I can see it's working.
So, you are ok with preachers being arrested for having church meetings? and feel a need to be insulting at the same time.
diakonos
03-31-2020, 04:56 AM
So, you are ok with preachers being arrested for having church meetings? and feel a need to be insulting at the same time.
RHB is a preacher?
Scott Pitta
03-31-2020, 10:20 AM
I'm OK with pastors being arrested for having large meetings during a pandemic. Charge them with a misdemeanor. Reckless endangerment comes to mind. So does willful neglect.
Tithesmeister
03-31-2020, 10:34 AM
I'm OK with pastors being arrested for having large meetings during a pandemic. Charge them with a misdemeanor. Reckless endangerment comes to mind. So does willful neglect.
Scott,
Those dinky charges will never be successfully prosecuted. My prediction is that they will quietly go away. The court date will be set for ninety days or so out. It will be continued, probably twice, then charges will be dropped. If I’m wrong, you’re welcome to call me on it. We’ll see what happens.
I’m not saying he should or shouldn’t meet. I’m just saying that he will not be successfully prosecuted. Because if he is guilty, they have about five hundred more to charge as well. Why didn’t they charge them? They are just as guilty.
Another question: Why didn’t they arrest him? Instead he turned himself in. Sounds fishy to me. I think EB may be correct. They probably made a big deal about charging him (in the media) and he made a big deal about turning himself in (in the media). Both are using the media to trumpet their message. The media makes money, the preacher makes money, the sheriff makes some noise.
Everybody’s happy.
n david
03-31-2020, 10:41 AM
I'm OK with pastors being arrested for having large meetings during a pandemic. Charge them with a misdemeanor. Reckless endangerment comes to mind. So does willful neglect.
People aren't being forced to attend. Just because a Pastor opens the doors for a service, doesn't mean that people will attend. People have a choice. If he's charged for opening the church doors, the people who attended should be charged for doing so as well.
hometown guy
03-31-2020, 10:43 AM
Scott,
Those dinky charges will never be successfully prosecuted. My prediction is that they will quietly go away. The court date will be set for ninety days or so out. It will be continued, probably twice, then charges will be dropped. If I’m wrong, you’re welcome to call me on it. We’ll see what happens.
I’m not saying he should or shouldn’t meet. I’m just saying that he will not be successfully prosecuted. Because if he is guilty, they have about five hundred more to charge as well. Why didn’t they charge them? They are just as guilty.
Another question: Why didn’t they arrest him? Instead he turned himself in. Sounds fishy to me. I think EB may be correct. They probably made a big deal about charging him (in the media) and he made a big deal about turning himself in (in the media). Both are using the media to trumpet their message. The media makes money, the preacher makes money, the sheriff makes some noise.
Everybody’s happy.
One thing that was different from what I read is he would not talk to authorities at all. Bro Spell has talked to all authorities that have requested to talk to him. Bro Spell has been very respectful and kind.
Tithesmeister
03-31-2020, 11:03 AM
I'm OK with pastors being arrested for having large meetings during a pandemic. Charge them with a misdemeanor. Reckless endangerment comes to mind. So does willful neglect.
People aren't being forced to attend. Just because a Pastor opens the doors for a service, doesn't mean that people will attend. People have a choice. If he's charged for opening the church doors, the people who attended should be charged for doing so as well.
Eh-sactly.
diakonos
03-31-2020, 11:23 AM
Why isn’t RHB healing people of this virus?
coksiw
03-31-2020, 11:56 AM
People aren't being forced to attend. Just because a Pastor opens the doors for a service, doesn't mean that people will attend. People have a choice. If he's charged for opening the church doors, the people who attended should be charged for doing so as well.
The problem is that assemblies thrive in unity. It is hard for a member to not assemble when they are having services. It is hard to see the split in your own assembly, between those that believe they need to assemble at the church building in large group as a demonstration of their faith, and obedience, and those that believe that they can still have church at homes in small groups and should join the community effort as an act of support and care.
So when the pastor says "you are not required to come but we are having service", he is splitting the assembly in two.
Steven Avery
03-31-2020, 12:20 PM
And I have not yet read the thread, however I want to give kudos to Pastor Tony Spell (and RHB) for placing the Bible and the Constitution ahead of the current pharma-$$$-sham.
If you want to live in 6' Social Distancing Fear, that is your right.
However, it really has nothing to do with health.
==========================
TERRAIN not GERMS (viruses are a specialty theorized germ to fill in some gaps)
==========================
Some tips.
Get outside in the beautiful spring sun and fresh air.
Do NOT stay inside, if you care about your health.
Do your own research on "Virus Theory".
Set up you little sanitarium environment.
Try to have a good Naturopathic style contact.
Try to have a nice reserve of goodies - your remedy section.
Herbal compresses, Vitamin C, elderberry, collodial silver, juices and much more.
Eat and drink well, have lots of high-quality water (I use a syrup called Drink More Good.) Juices can assist.
e.g. The Japanese are doing well with their miso and seaweed.
Make sure your diet has no bats, rats, shellfish or pork.
Consider installing a sauna, steam baths can be helpful.
The prime minister of Belarus lauds the sauna and a few other items (including a shot of whiskey :) )
Learn from others.
Use your internet resources, some incredible folk on Facebook, Youtube and Twitter to start.
(Even with the censorship.)
==========================
Do NOT get tested.
Do NOT take any vaccine. (If you took the flu vax, your health will be problematic for quite a while.)
Avoid ANY hospitalization for respiratory disease.
See if your historic Adventist friends have hands-on sanitarium background.
=====================
Understand that ALL of MSM is controlled by big-pharma including, almost all the time, Fox and OAN.
Be aware that we are close to (possibly permanent) martial law with the suspension of constitutional liberties, the debasement of the dollar is en route, and a coming depression is likely.
The COVID numbers are going up because there is much more sham testing.
I do believe there is a virus... The whole theory of viruses being transmitted by contact, and causing disease, is not really possible, from my studies. There are lots of fancy pictures that are made-up like Photoshop. Various top scientists have pointed this out over the years, you can go back to the HIV controversies.
Nursing homes are horrendous threats to health to begin with, but that's another story.And hospitals as well.
Brother Spell ... I believe he held a service outside today.Wonderful. More of those are needed. Hopefully parks and grass over parking lots.
A highly contagious disease. Afaik, there is really no evidence of this. Again and again we hear of individuals whose families are untouched. Often the individuals have no disease at all, they just "tested positive" with the sham test.
And they end up dying from the virus that they for 100% certain got it there.... Impossible.
what are you telling your community when you don't care enough about them to take the precautions medical experts and the government is asking you to do TEMPORARILY to suppress a deadly virus? How do you know any of this martial law style action is temporary? Maybe it is just a drill, for the next one next year. Maybe it is meant to be permanent. Think Jade Helm, coming up to speed.
Tony Spell ... He is living what he believes. He told them the church is essential and when every store is closed down then he will close but as long as Walmart, target, planed parenthood ect are open then he will be open. Sounds fair to me. He is not making anyone come. It all their own choices. Thank God for men of God love tony spell that won’t bend to anyone but God. Makes sense. Thank you Lord Jesus!
Although I do not like the "every store" exception clause!
Tony Spell ... He believes the virus is real. Not likely. If you study carefully virus theory. There is a lot of danger of anyone being injected with poisons (e.g. flu vax) with pathogens/poisons.
Apparently the rate of SIDS is taking a big dip. That is because they are often the result of the 'Well-Baby' (vaccine) visits, and many of those have been suspended and put off.
Anyway, I repeat the support of Tony Spell.
No disrespect intended, but I don’t think I would post that kind of accusation based off of a hunch.Thank you!
Nico - I take it you do not know him. If you did, you would know that he is not worried about what people believe. He is concerned about souls and what God desires. Now, our church has gone to online, but I have no concerns about Bro. Spell's motives. Part of me wishes I had his faith and boldness, but God has not spoken to me that way!Thank you!
Putting these guidelines in place for churches and large gatherings will no doubt be the next step of action once the bans for gatherings are lifted that we have now.CDC-WHO 'guidelines' nicely enforced by a federalized National Guard, guns drawn.
They had 10 get the Holy Ghost and 7 baptized In the name of Jesus this past Sunday morning so I think it’s going pretty good for him. Halleluyah!
One of the differences between Holy Spirit assembly and internet poo-bah :).
Freeindeed
03-31-2020, 01:11 PM
And I have not yet read the thread, however I want to give kudos to Pastor Tony Spell (and RHB) for placing the Bible and the Constitution ahead of the current pharma-$$$-sham.
If you want to live in 6' Social Distancing Fear, that is your right.
However, it really has nothing to do with health.
TERRAIN not GERMS (viruses are a specialty theorized germ to fill in some gaps)
==========================
Some tips.
Get outside in the beautiful spring sun and fresh air.
Do NOT stay inside, if you care about your health.
Do your own research on "Virus Theory".
Set up you little sanitarium environment.
Try to have a good Naturopathic style contact.
Try to have a nice reserve of goodies - your remedy section.
Herbal compresses, Vitamin C, elderberry, collodial silver, juices and much more.
Eat and drink well, have lots of high-quality water (I use a syrup called Drink More Good.) Juices can assist.
e.g. The Japanese are doing well with their miso and seaweed.
Make sure your diet has no bats, rats, shellfish or pork.
Consider installing a sauna, steam baths can be helpful.
The prime minister of Belarus lauds the sauna and a few other items (including a shot of whiskey :) )
Learn from others.
Use your internet resources, some incredible folk on Facebook, Youtube and Twitter to start.
(Even with the censorship.)
==========================
Do NOT get tested.
Do NOT take any vaccine. (If you took the flu vax, your health will be problematic for quite a while.)
Avoid ANY hospitalization for respiratory disease.
See if your historic Adventist friends have hands-on sanitarium background.
=====================
Understand that ALL of MSM is controlled by big-pharma including, almost all the time, Fox and OAN.
Be aware that we are close to (possibly permanent) martial law with the suspension of constitutional liberties, the debasement of the dollar is en route, and a coming depression is likely.
The COVID numbers are going up because there is much more sham testing.
The whole theory of viruses being transmitted by contact, and causing disease, is not really possible, from my studies. There are lots of fancy pictures that are made-up like Photoshop. Various top scientists have pointed this out over the years, you can go back to the HIV controversies.
And hospitals as well.
Wonderful. More of those are needed. Hopefully parks and grass over parking lots.
Afaik, there is really no evidence of this. Again and again we here of individuals whose families are untouched. Often the individuals have no disease at all, they just "tested positive" with the sham test.
Thanks for sharing this post.
Truthseeker
03-31-2020, 01:38 PM
Looks like he is facing charges.
https://www.wafb.com/2020/03/31/pastor-louisiana-church-charged-accused-disobeying-governors-order/
n david
03-31-2020, 01:52 PM
And I have not yet read the thread, however I want to give kudos to Pastor Tony Spell (and RHB) for placing the Bible and the Constitution ahead of the current pharma-$$$-sham.
If you want to live in 6' Social Distancing Fear, that is your right.
However, it really has nothing to do with health.
TERRAIN not GERMS (viruses are a specialty theorized germ to fill in some gaps)
==========================
Some tips.
Get outside in the beautiful spring sun and fresh air.
Do NOT stay inside, if you care about your health.
Do your own research on "Virus Theory".
Set up you little sanitarium environment.
Try to have a good Naturopathic style contact.
Try to have a nice reserve of goodies - your remedy section.
Herbal compresses, Vitamin C, elderberry, collodial silver, juices and much more.
Eat and drink well, have lots of high-quality water (I use a syrup called Drink More Good.) Juices can assist.
e.g. The Japanese are doing well with their miso and seaweed.
Make sure your diet has no bats, rats, shellfish or pork.
Consider installing a sauna, steam baths can be helpful.
The prime minister of Belarus lauds the sauna and a few other items (including a shot of whiskey :) )
Learn from others.
Use your internet resources, some incredible folk on Facebook, Youtube and Twitter to start.
(Even with the censorship.)
==========================
Do NOT get tested.
Do NOT take any vaccine. (If you took the flu vax, your health will be problematic for quite a while.)
Avoid ANY hospitalization for respiratory disease.
See if your historic Adventist friends have hands-on sanitarium background.
=====================
Understand that ALL of MSM is controlled by big-pharma including, almost all the time, Fox and OAN.
Be aware that we are close to (possibly permanent) martial law with the suspension of constitutional liberties, the debasement of the dollar is en route, and a coming depression is likely.
The COVID numbers are going up because there is much more sham testing.
The whole theory of viruses being transmitted by contact, and causing disease, is not really possible, from my studies. There are lots of fancy pictures that are made-up like Photoshop. Various top scientists have pointed this out over the years, you can go back to the HIV controversies.
And hospitals as well.
Wonderful. More of those are needed. Hopefully parks and grass over parking lots.
Afaik, there is really no evidence of this. Again and again we here of individuals whose families are untouched. Often the individuals have no disease at all, they just "tested positive" with the sham test.
Impossible.
How do you know any of this martial law style action is temporary? Maybe it is just a drill, for the next one next year. Maybe it is meant to be permanent.
Makes sense. Thank you Lord Jesus!
Although I do not like "every store" exception clause!
Not likely. If you study carefully virus theory. There is a lot of danger of anyone being injected with poisons (e.g. flu vax) with pathogens/poisons.
Apparently the rate of SIDS is taking a big dip. That is because they are often the result of the 'Well-Baby' (vaccine) visits, and many of those have been suspended and put off.
Anyway, I repeat the support of Tony Spell.
Thank you!
Thank you!
CDC-WHO 'guidelines' nicely enforced by a federalized National Guard, guns drawn.
Are you a Dr? If not, what research and education have you done which you claim proves viruses aren't transmittable or that people won't get infected from the virus?
If you're sure of your claim, go around touching as many door handles, grocery carts and handrails as you can. Then touch your face and lick your fingers. You should be totally fine. I'd also suggest visiting the ER or getting near someone who is sick, drink out of their cups, use their utensils, etc. Again, you should be fine since viruses can't be transmitted.
There are people I know personally, and others who are related to friends who have either gotten the virus themselves or have been in a church in which the virus infected many people. How is this possible if viruses can't be transmitted?
I agree with some of your post, most of it is fake news, IMO. And dangerous.
Steven Avery
03-31-2020, 01:54 PM
Thanks for sharing this post.Your most welcome.
With the CorVir obsession, twenty-four pages before we have a post talking about staying healthy! hmmm...
Two very rudimentary pages I put up, hopefully I can improve them by the grace of the Lord Jesus
Remedy Section!
https://www.facebook.com/steven.avery.7568/posts/2987380151298163
Virus Theory Research Center
https://virustheory.blogspot.com/2020/03/virus-theory-resouce-center.html
n david
03-31-2020, 02:53 PM
Do NOT get tested.
Avoid ANY hospitalization for respiratory disease.
These are incredibly BAD and dangerous suggestions. Eli Hernandez is on a ventilator in a medically induced coma because his lungs weren't functioning. Had he followed your suggestions, he would be DEAD!
CDC-WHO 'guidelines' nicely enforced by a federalized National Guard, guns drawn.
This is absolutely false.
KeptByTheWord
03-31-2020, 02:53 PM
Looks like he is facing charges.
https://www.wafb.com/2020/03/31/pastor-louisiana-church-charged-accused-disobeying-governors-order/
Just wait until there are deaths because of someone in the congregation contracting the virus.... praying for the situation. I see both sides of the issue and feel there is validity for both. A very difficult situation.
KeptByTheWord
03-31-2020, 02:59 PM
Your most welcome.
With the CorVir obsession, twenty-four pages before we have a post talking about staying healthy! hmmm...
Two very rudimentary pages I put up, hopefully I can improve them by the grace of the Lord Jesus
Remedy Section!
https://www.facebook.com/steven.avery.7568/posts/2987380151298163
Virus Theory Research Center
https://virustheory.blogspot.com/2020/03/virus-theory-resouce-center.html
It's easy to preach all this. Until the covid comes to your home, or your family. You're not invincible. None of us are.
Quarantine was first instituted by the Lord for the children of Israel's safety and protection with contagious diseases. It is necessary.
The problem in our very connected world, is to how to do this. It is a logistical nightmare, as the disease has no face, and no initial presenting symptoms to alert us to who is contagious until it is too late.
And of course, we have the globalists seeking to capitalize on the virus. Let no crisis go to waste. It is a disaster of epic proportions.
But just remember, none of us are invincible.
coksiw
03-31-2020, 03:11 PM
Just found this:
How Pentecostals Responded to the 1918 “Spanish Influenza” Pandemic
https://influencemagazine.com/en/Theory/How-Pentecostals-Responded-to-the-1918-Spanish-Influenza-Pandemic
coksiw
03-31-2020, 03:17 PM
I think denial is the way some people handle fear.
n david
03-31-2020, 03:18 PM
Just found this:
How Pentecostals Responded to the 1918 “Spanish Influenza” Pandemic
https://influencemagazine.com/en/Theory/How-Pentecostals-Responded-to-the-1918-Spanish-Influenza-Pandemic
:thumbsup
n david
03-31-2020, 03:24 PM
Why the need for theatrics? Someone nominate Tony and his father for their Oscar-worthy performance.
Good grief.
Why couldn't he accept the summons in the lobby or in his office? Why the need for the theatrics of 8 or more people all streaming the officers walking into the sanctuary, down the aisle to the Pastor in his Sunday best standing in front of the pulpit.
That was an ego show. No other way to put it. When you could have accepted the summons any other way, but instead choose to do it this way ... that's ego and pride.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LNLst-gh9Q&feature=emb_title
KeptByTheWord
03-31-2020, 03:48 PM
Just found this:
How Pentecostals Responded to the 1918 “Spanish Influenza” Pandemic
https://influencemagazine.com/en/Theory/How-Pentecostals-Responded-to-the-1918-Spanish-Influenza-Pandemic
This is an excellent article. Thank you for sharing it.
KeptByTheWord
03-31-2020, 03:53 PM
Why the need for theatrics? Someone nominate Tony and his father for their Oscar-worthy performance.
Good grief.
Why couldn't he accept the summons in the lobby or in his office? Why the need for the theatrics of 8 or more people all streaming the officers walking into the sanctuary, down the aisle to the Pastor in his Sunday best standing in front of the pulpit.
That was an ego show. No other way to put it. When you could have accepted the summons any other way, but instead choose to do it this way ... that's ego and pride.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LNLst-gh9Q&feature=emb_title
It will be interesting to see how all this plays out. I honestly do see both sides of the coin. I didn't see any issues with where he was served the summons, or any theatrics except maybe at the end with his dad sharing , after the summons had taken place. But just my opinion. Praying for God's wisdom in all of this. I am praying for all of us.
Scott Pitta
03-31-2020, 04:12 PM
He is also willful negligent of the church he pastors. I have no idea what the legal outcome will be.
But meeting in groups during a pandemic is no different that accepting a glass of coolaid from Jim Jones.
After all, no one made them drink it.
Truthseeker
03-31-2020, 04:36 PM
It will be interesting to see how all this plays out. I honestly do see both sides of the coin. I didn't see any issues with where he was served the summons, or any theatrics except maybe at the end with his dad sharing , after the summons had taken place. But just my opinion. Praying for God's wisdom in all of this. I am praying for all of us.
I feel for the officers , probably not something they want to do.
aegsm76
03-31-2020, 04:48 PM
Why the need for theatrics? Someone nominate Tony and his father for their Oscar-worthy performance.
Good grief.
Why couldn't he accept the summons in the lobby or in his office? Why the need for the theatrics of 8 or more people all streaming the officers walking into the sanctuary, down the aisle to the Pastor in his Sunday best standing in front of the pulpit.
That was an ego show. No other way to put it. When you could have accepted the summons any other way, but instead choose to do it this way ... that's ego and pride.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LNLst-gh9Q&feature=emb_title
nd - glad to see you can learn all you need to know about someone from a short video.
Reminds me of the assumptions taken by many in the Covington Catholic situation.
How about listening to some of us who actually know the Spells.
Now, as I have said before, our church has gone to online services, but the governments reaction to churches having service has made me want to re-think this.
Think about it, the government has basically closed every church in the USA and almost nary a squawk from us so-called Christians.
But, you can go to Walmart, Costco, Sam's, the gas station, vet offices, garden centers, etc...
Go to work if you are in an essential business (some of which have thousands of employees gathered together) and that is ok?
Not a far jump for them to say that you can go back to your normal life, if you take the antigen tests and show that you have already had Covid-19.
And just to make is easier to identify you, we will give you an invisible tattoo (which can be read with special readers).
But, maybe I am just paranoid...
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