View Full Version : Tyranny in America?
Esaias
03-29-2020, 01:14 AM
Police, Military Begin Door to Door Searches to Hunt Down New Yorkers Seeking Refuge
Matt Agorist March 28, 2020
Rhode Island — In perhaps the most unprecedented attack on the Constitution on which the Free Thought Project has ever has ever reported, the governor of Rhode Island has announced that the National Guard will begin conducting house-to-house searches to hunt down New Yorkers seeking refuge in their state.
...
“Yesterday I announced and today I reiterated: Anyone coming to Rhode Island in any way from New York must be quarantined,” the governor said. “By order. Will be enforced. Enforceable by law.”
https://thefreethoughtproject.com/police-door-to-door-searches-new-yorkers/
Esaias
03-29-2020, 01:27 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpDJPD6Hlgc
Evang.Benincasa
03-29-2020, 04:07 AM
Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is trying to stop anyone coming from Louisiana from coming to Florida. He wants to set up check points. Anyone of the three posters of this forum got the Ebola virus, coronavirus, Zeka, H1N1? West Nile virus? What happened to that? Did we all get immunded? Do viruses go out of date?
Freeindeed
03-29-2020, 06:43 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpDJPD6Hlgc
Everyone should watch this video. I know many people are wishing that this will soon be over and we can all go back to a normal life, but there is something bigger than a virus going on.
Birddog
03-29-2020, 07:39 AM
Everyone should watch this video. I know many people are wishing that this will soon be over and we can all go back to a normal life, but there is something bigger than a virus going on.
Yes
Evang.Benincasa
03-29-2020, 07:40 AM
That video is correct.
There won’t be going back to normal.
Birddog
03-29-2020, 07:43 AM
That video is correct.
There won’t be going back to normal.
Been telling some around here that....
Not quite for sure what that means but it is definitely there.
911 changed America permanently, so will this.
Evang.Benincasa
03-29-2020, 08:21 AM
Been telling some around here that....
Not quite for sure what that means but it is definitely there.
911 changed America permanently, so will this.
:highfive
diakonos
03-29-2020, 10:39 AM
Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is trying to stop anyone coming from Louisiana from coming to Florida. He wants to set up check points. Anyone of the three posters of this forum got the Ebola virus, coronavirus, Zeka, H1N1? West Nile virus? What happened to that? Did we all get immunded? Do viruses go out of date?
Good point. They haven’t made a yearly cycle.
Esaias
03-29-2020, 10:42 AM
National Guard to do "door to door visits" tocheck up on your status.
Enjoying all this sunshine, tovarich?
https://www.kxan.com/news/coronavirus/texas-national-guard-troops-could-do-door-to-door-checkups-around-dallas/
james34
03-29-2020, 02:36 PM
Very obvious that the over exaggeration to the Corona distress is a cover up for a much darker agenda, trying to wake people up is difficult at best.....
None of the wicked shall understand, but the righteous shall understand
TakingDominion
03-29-2020, 03:45 PM
Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is trying to stop anyone coming from Louisiana from coming to Florida. He wants to set up check points. Anyone of the three posters of this forum got the Ebola virus, coronavirus, Zeka, H1N1? West Nile virus? What happened to that? Did we all get immunded? Do viruses go out of date?
In Louisiana for the past 4 weeks. Don't have the virus nor do I know anyone infected.
Evang.Benincasa
03-30-2020, 05:52 AM
In Louisiana for the past 4 weeks. Don't have the virus nor do I know anyone infected.
Ah ha but that’s just it. You don’t know if you have the virus. Nor do the people around you. All must be quarantined. All must be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
james34
03-30-2020, 07:47 PM
So as we watch different states go into lock down , i am seeing a common denominator. There is an idea of essential and non essential business. Obviously the government decides where each business fits. No one seems to be bothered, as there seems to be a very liberal all- inclucive approach, as to which businesses are deemed essential. Actually there are very few businesses which are excluded. So while people are distracted and checking to see if they are in the "essential " category, they are playing into the hand of the government. They are accepting that it is the government who has the power to decide whether or not you operate in business. This is the idea, getting used to the government calling the shots. They start by calling shots that everyone would agree with anyway, and then they begin to slowly move toward the government running everything. This is a clever way to get citizens to help destroy the capitolost free market economy. Once they have destroyed the economy to a point of no return(which is the obvious agenda) we will become a democratic socialist country. This is the beginning (I believe) of the type of economy that will lead to a system requiring the worship of the beast.
james34
03-30-2020, 08:06 PM
The afore mentioned, is of course made possible(again put peoples people's minds at ease) by an endless barrage of infomercials encouraging eveyone to stay home, and congratulating those who already are. I have heard advertisements saying " stay home get Paid". Get rewarded for not working. This is an obvious government takeover.......
Esaias
03-30-2020, 09:25 PM
As Millions Of Americans Become Unemployed, Trump Admin Expands Importation Of Foreign Workers
Despite record unemployment claims exceeding 3 million in one week, President Donald Trump's administration is rapidly expanding H-1B, H-2A and H-2B foreign worker programs to take Americans' jobs and suppress wages.
Unemployment insurance claims are up 3,001,000 compared to last week - the highest level in the history of the seasonally adjusted series. The previous high was 695,000 in October of 1982. https://t.co/F70dsnmUKo #UnemploymentNumber #employment #JobsReport pic.twitter.com/9Xn4BmpPES
— USAFacts (@USAFacts) March 26, 2020
From Breitbart, "Trump's DHS Starts to Import 85,000 H-1B Graduate Gig Workers":
President Donald Trump's deputies announced Friday that they had begun the process of importing 85,000 H-1B gig workers to take white-collar jobs that will be needed after October by the millions of American graduates who are now losing jobs in the coronavirus crash.
"This is just an unspeakable action," said Marie Larson, a co-founder of the American Workers Coalition, which opposes the many visa worker programs that have transferred at least one million white-collar jobs to foreign workers. "I don't believe President Trump ordered this — the swamp went ahead with this," she said.
"If the H-1B program is just for filling jobs that Americans cannot fill amid for labor shortages, then this would not be happening," said John Miano, a lawyer with the Immigration Law Reform Institute. "But it is not a labor-shortage program — it is a cheap labor program to displace Americans," he said.
The 2020 lottery "is in your face that that is the purpose of the program."
The agency announced Friday that it had received enough corporate requests to snatch up all of the 2020 supply of H-1B visas.
http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=61330
Esaias
03-30-2020, 09:27 PM
Gov. Abbot Orders Texas State Troopers To Enforce Quarantine At Louisiana Border
Texans are used to hearing talk of securing the southern border with Mexico, but the idea of checkpoints at the border with Louisiana is something no one ever imagined.
After late last week Louisiana and specifically New Orleans have emerged as the southern epicenter for the coronavirus outbreak in the US, with the Bayou State on Sunday reporting more than 3,500 positive cases - a number expected to grow rapidly following a busy Mardi Gras season, Texas Governor Greg Abbott on Sunday ordered all travelers entering Texas from Louisiana to enter a 14-day quarantine, now enforceable by state troopers.
https://www.zerohedge.com/health/gov-abbot-orders-texas-state-troopers-enforce-quarantine-louisiana-border
Esaias
03-30-2020, 09:29 PM
Tampa megachurch pastor arrested after leading packed services despite 'safer-at-home' orders
The pastor of a Tampa megachurch is facing charges after refusing to close its doors despite a "safer at home" order in effect in Hillsborough County, meant to stop the spread of COVID-19. The sheriff says up to 500 people were in attendance at Pastor Rodney Howard-Browne's Sunday services.
Howard-Browne, 58, turned himself in Monday afternoon after Sheriff Chad Chronister and State Attorney Andrew Warren on Monday announced an arrest warrant had been issued for charges of unlawful assembly and violating public health emergency rules of isolation and quarantine. Howard-Browne was released 40 minutes later after posting a $500 bond.
The River at Tampa Bay Church held two services Sunday, Chronister said, and even offered bus transportation for those services. The church's live stream showed a packed crowd cheering and applauding.
https://www.fox5ny.com/news/tampa-megachurch-pastor-arrested-after-leading-packed-services-despite-safer-at-home-orders
Esaias
03-30-2020, 09:31 PM
Democrat Governors Order Auto Shops, Veterinarians, Construction Companies Turn Over Lists of PPE Gear Presumably for Possible Seizure
Governors in Colorado, New Jersey, and Minnesota are demanding that private companies whose employees often use personal protective equipment (PPE) submit lists of their inventories to the state, in what could very likely result in the government seizing these supplies and redistributing them to hospitals due to the Covid 19 pandemic.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/03/democrat-governors-order-auto-shops-veterinarians-construction-companies-turn-over-lists-of-of-ppe-gear-presumably-for-possible-seizure/
Esaias
03-30-2020, 09:35 PM
NATIONAL GUARD IN SEVERAL STATES STOPPING VEHICLES, INTERROGATING DRIVERS AND EVEN GOING ‘DOOR TO DOOR’
https://www.silverdoctors.com/headlines/world-news/national-guard-in-several-states-stopping-vehicles-interrogating-drivers-and-even-going-door-to-door/
Evang.Benincasa
03-30-2020, 09:38 PM
Tampa megachurch pastor arrested after leading packed services despite 'safer-at-home' orders
The pastor of a Tampa megachurch is facing charges after refusing to close its doors despite a "safer at home" order in effect in Hillsborough County, meant to stop the spread of COVID-19. The sheriff says up to 500 people were in attendance at Pastor Rodney Howard-Browne's Sunday services.
Howard-Browne, 58, turned himself in Monday afternoon after Sheriff Chad Chronister and State Attorney Andrew Warren on Monday announced an arrest warrant had been issued for charges of unlawful assembly and violating public health emergency rules of isolation and quarantine. Howard-Browne was released 40 minutes later after posting a $500 bond.
The River at Tampa Bay Church held two services Sunday, Chronister said, and even offered bus transportation for those services. The church's live stream showed a packed crowd cheering and applauding.
https://www.fox5ny.com/news/tampa-megachurch-pastor-arrested-after-leading-packed-services-despite-safer-at-home-orders
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVMXw_y7jyI&ab_channel=jazzysclassicjazz3
Evang.Benincasa
03-30-2020, 09:41 PM
NATIONAL GUARD IN SEVERAL STATES STOPPING VEHICLES, INTERROGATING DRIVERS AND EVEN GOING ‘DOOR TO DOOR’
https://www.silverdoctors.com/headlines/world-news/national-guard-in-several-states-stopping-vehicles-interrogating-drivers-and-even-going-door-to-door/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDxUmrGsWIQ&ab_channel=SosaiX
Esaias
03-30-2020, 09:43 PM
Trump administration importing foreign workers while Americans crash and burn... Military troops manning checkpoints and going door to door... State Police manning the border with a neighboring state (forget about the southern border, though, right?)... Pastors being arrested/fined/charged... Churches closing/shut down/ceasing to assemble... Private companies being "inventoried" for confiscation of goods for government purposes... Snitch on your neighbors... Food shortages, breadlines, rationing... Fake phony "mainstream news" propaganda 24/7...
Somebody tell me how this is anything BUT bolshevik soviet style tyranny being rolled out?
Esaias
03-30-2020, 09:44 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVMXw_y7jyI&ab_channel=jazzysclassicjazz3
First they came for the charismatics...
Evang.Benincasa
03-30-2020, 09:46 PM
Trump administration importing foreign workers while Americans crash and burn... Military troops manning checkpoints and going door to door... State Police manning the border with a neighboring state (forget about the southern border, though, right?)... Pastors being arrested/fined/charged... Churches closing/shut down/ceasing to assemble... Private companies being "inventoried" for confiscation of goods for government purposes... Snitch on your neighbors... Food shortages, breadlines, rationing... Fake phony "mainstream news" propaganda 24/7...
Somebody tell me how this is anything BUT bolshevik soviet style tyranny being rolled out?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDtHt0-AcSk
Esaias
03-30-2020, 09:56 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDtHt0-AcSk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr1rzSSMsac
Evang.Benincasa
03-30-2020, 09:59 PM
First they came for the charismatics...
Because the charismatics called them to their big buildings. While the Apostolics were having home church, and avoiding the dog and pony show.
Oh Brother! Don't know what it is like in America but in Vancouver, they just passed an ordinance that only you and your immediate family can be in the same vehicle???
We are sliding on a slippery slope towards a police state.��
Go get them Bro Spell!������
TGBTG
03-31-2020, 06:59 AM
First they came for the charismatics...
Because the charismatics called them to their big buildings. While the Apostolics were having home church, and avoiding the dog and pony show.
Esaias,
Why does it matter that a charismatic pastor got arrested? what if that happened to a kingdom hall meeting or an islamic meeting? would you be concerned?
Charismatics do not preach the apostolic message anyway, so what's the big deal.
Like EB says, it's all a dog and pony show while true apostolics are having good church at home anyway.
Michael The Disciple
03-31-2020, 07:27 AM
Esaias,
Why does it matter that a charismatic pastor got arrested? what if that happened to a kingdom hall meeting or an islamic meeting? would you be concerned?
Charismatics do not preach the apostolic message anyway, so what's the big deal.
Like EB says, it's all a dog and pony show while true apostolics are having good church at home anyway.
This is so pathetic. Dont you realize many "Apostolics" used to be "Charismatic"? All Charismatic gatherings are a dog and pony show?
Apostolics having good Church at home? Since were painting with a broad brush this isnt what Im hearing from Apostolic Pastors. The ones I have heard are deeply grieved that they cant meet in the "house of God" by which they mean the Church building.
They are saying how great it is to be together and "feel the presence of God".
While it is good to meet together I think if we did not have the Church meeting some (not sure how many) would just fall away and go back to living for self. They are not used to serving Jesus in their daily life.
They pray and rejoice in the Church building but they feel awkward praying and worshipping Jesus at home. Being a disciple to them is all about the Church building meeting.
Some will be better off in this situation because it will help them see beyond man. It will help them begin to sense that Jesus is with them anywhere and everywhere. Others not used to seeking God and feeling his presence except at Church, who have previously put other things before Jesus through the week anyway will soon forget about him.
Yes I get what Esaias said.
FIRST they came for the Charismatics. Focus on the word FIRST.
Michael The Disciple
03-31-2020, 07:48 AM
Trump administration importing foreign workers while Americans crash and burn... Military troops manning checkpoints and going door to door... State Police manning the border with a neighboring state (forget about the southern border, though, right?)... Pastors being arrested/fined/charged... Churches closing/shut down/ceasing to assemble... Private companies being "inventoried" for confiscation of goods for government purposes... Snitch on your neighbors... Food shortages, breadlines, rationing... Fake phony "mainstream news" propaganda 24/7...
Somebody tell me how this is anything BUT bolshevik soviet style tyranny being rolled out?
You got it exactly right.
diakonos
03-31-2020, 08:07 AM
Esaias,
Why does it matter that a charismatic pastor got arrested? what if that happened to a kingdom hall meeting or an islamic meeting? would you be concerned?
Charismatics do not preach the apostolic message anyway, so what's the big deal.
Like EB says, it's all a dog and pony show while true apostolics are having good church at home anyway.
Uhhh 🙄
First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
TGBTG
03-31-2020, 08:43 AM
This is so pathetic. Dont you realize many "Apostolics" used to be "Charismatic"? All Charismatic gatherings are a dog and pony show?
Apostolics having good Church at home? Since were painting with a broad brush this isnt what Im hearing from Apostolic Pastors. The ones I have heard are deeply grieved that they cant meet in the "house of God" by which they mean the Church building.
They are saying how great it is to be together and "feel the presence of God".
While it is good to meet together I think if we did not have the Church meeting some (not sure how many) would just fall away and go back to living for self. They are not used to serving Jesus in their daily life.
They pray and rejoice in the Church building but they feel awkward praying and worshipping Jesus at home. Being a disciple to them is all about the Church building meeting.
Some will be better off in this situation because it will help them see beyond man. It will help them begin to sense that Jesus is with them anywhere and everywhere. Others not used to seeking God and feeling his presence except at Church, who have previously put other things before Jesus through the week anyway will soon forget about him.
Yes I get what Esaias said.
FIRST they came for the Charismatics. Focus on the word FIRST.
Might as well say FIRST they came for the Islamists, Jehovah witnesses'...etc
Your line of reason is why false religions are allowed to be propagated throughout this country.
james34
03-31-2020, 10:00 AM
Here is a line of reasoning,
Although Herod knew there was a king born he did not know specifically who he was. So he went after any resemblance of the enemy that he sought. So they slaughtered all the Male babies from 2 yrs. And down.
Revelation ch. 12 tells us that the devil went to make war with the remnant of her seed, these are they that have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Man being influenced by the devil, but not being (the devil himself) have always done the bidding of Satan by going after any resemblance of the enemy they seek. Not every one that saith Lord, Lord shall enter in to the kingdom. Maybe they even really believe they are his...but the Lord is not confused (he knoweth them that are his/they depart from iniquity) . Those who do not depart from iniquity, but push a doctrine where you experience the moving of the Spirit of God, even though they remain subdued by the flesh...this is simply a resemblance of the true Christianity. They turn the grace of God into lasciviousness. This is my understanding of charismatic/a moving away from (Holiness living) under the guise of not being legalistic.
When the societal and governmental pressure begins and it has, long before Coronavirus, the religious will cave in the early rounds of persecution. The end result will be a zeroing in on the body of Christ.
Michael The Disciple
03-31-2020, 10:06 AM
Might as well say FIRST they came for the Islamists, Jehovah witnesses'...etc
Your line of reason is why false religions are allowed to be propagated throughout this country.
Oh yes but those who teach as disgusting a doctrine as Jesus came and the resurrection and the rapture happened in 70ad will get to enter the gates of Heaven because they call themselves "Apostolic".
Esaias
03-31-2020, 11:32 AM
Esaias,
Why does it matter that a charismatic pastor got arrested? what if that happened to a kingdom hall meeting or an islamic meeting? would you be concerned?
Charismatics do not preach the apostolic message anyway, so what's the big deal.
Like EB says, it's all a dog and pony show while true apostolics are having good church at home anyway.
I guess it wouldn't matter either if they were hauling off Jews to concentration camps. After all, they aren't apostolic so who cares, right?
If people get robbed, raped, or pillaged, who cares as long as they aren't apostolic, right?
The parable of the Good Samaritan went right over your head. Too bad, because your salvation absolutely depends on a right understanding and application of that parable.
Esaias
03-31-2020, 11:37 AM
Might as well say FIRST they came for the Islamists, Jehovah witnesses'...etc
Your line of reason is why false religions are allowed to be propagated throughout this country.
The charismatic church wasn't being shut down because they were charismatic. They were being shut down because the State has usurped to itself the authority of violating the first amendment and overthrowing the Bill of Rights without lawful due process.
You'll never get it and don't care, so might as well move on to another thread.
Esaias
03-31-2020, 06:13 PM
How convenient. While everyone is sheltering in place and all protests are banned, the Alamo cenotaph is about to be destroyed:
http://iamatexan.com/2020/03/30/bulldozers-move-in-to-alamo-plaza-while-texans-shelter-in-place/
Esaias
03-31-2020, 06:37 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlMeKlBHDHM
Esaias
03-31-2020, 11:23 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3wGdHI_H48
Esaias
03-31-2020, 11:37 PM
For several years US military were having martial law drills, remember? You WERE paying attention back then, right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLT0GE_Wutg
Freeindeed
04-01-2020, 07:38 AM
For several years US military were having martial law drills, remember? You WERE paying attention back then, right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLT0GE_Wutg
I noticed that the mock protesters were yelling, "food and water". Alarming!
james34
04-01-2020, 12:35 PM
Modern America is showing it's TRUE colors through the Coronavirus pandemic. (their hatred of God) Went to Krogers yesterday and there are wall to wall people, it's been this way other days . I've seen this be the norm from Jackson,Tn to Batesville,Ar and everywhere in between......but then......
Churches are shut down and pastors who dare hold services are jailed, while facebook and other social media spew hatred toward these churches, for putting their congregations at risk.
Some may say, "I have spoken out about these retail places
being open". But if we are honest you are not hearing or seeing the backlash against retailers like you are against churches.
WHY? If someone in Krogers, unknowingly is infected, (asymptomatic) and this is highly, Abnormally, contagious (as we are told this virus is) then everyone in that place would very likely have it.
I get it churches are considered Non-essential, by the government and by most on social media..... they want their daily bread, but they disregard the Holy Word of God that tells us,
" Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeded forth from the mouth of God"
The word of God is "beyond measure "of greater importance/essential than the sustainment of this natural man.
......back to the Church, if a crowd is wrong in one place then it is wrong in another. If a pastor is liable for adults who decide to congregate at church, should they get sick, then the retail store Manager, those quiet on social media( maybe you) the government and local law enforcement are responsible (and should be jailed) for anyone who has visited these retailers and become infected.
One word, hypocrisy.
Esaias
04-01-2020, 12:53 PM
Modern America is showing it's TRUE colors through the Coronavirus pandemic. (their hatred of God) Went to Krogers yesterday and there are wall to wall people, it's been this way other days . I've seen this be the norm from Jackson,Tn to Batesville,Ar and everywhere in between......but then......
Churches are shut down and pastors who dare hold services are jailed, while facebook and other social media spew hatred toward these churches, for putting their congregations at risk.
Some may say, "I have spoken out about these retail places
being open". But if we are honest you are not hearing or seeing the backlash against retailers like you are against churches.
WHY? If someone in Krogers, unknowingly is infected, (asymptomatic) and this is highly, Abnormally, contagious (as we are told this virus is) then everyone in that place would very likely have it.
I get it churches are considered Non-essential, by the government and by most on social media..... they want their daily bread, but they disregard the Holy Word of God that tells us,
" Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeded forth from the mouth of God"
The word of God is "beyond measure "of greater importance/essential than the sustainment of this natural man.
......back to the Church, if a crowd is wrong in one place then it is wrong in another. If a pastor is liable for adults who decide to congregate at church, should they get sick, then the retail store Manager, those quiet on social media( maybe you) the government and local law enforcement are responsible (and should be jailed) for anyone who has visited these retailers and become infected.
One word, hypocrisy.
:yourock
Which shows the response does not equal the threat. Either the threat is severe - in which case the response is pure theater and name brand boloney - or the threat is not severe - in which case the response is still name brand baloney.
Baloney for dinner. Served cold and without ketchup.
Tithesmeister
04-01-2020, 01:36 PM
Modern America is showing it's TRUE colors through the Coronavirus pandemic. (their hatred of God) Went to Krogers yesterday and there are wall to wall people, it's been this way other days . I've seen this be the norm from Jackson,Tn to Batesville,Ar and everywhere in between......but then......
Brother, I think you are overreacting here. I don’t run into people who “hate God” hardly at all. I think the much more dangerous reaction to God is indifference. Many people are indifferent to God. Many people who are indifferent to God, claim to be Christians.
Churches are shut down and pastors who dare hold services are jailed, while facebook and other social media spew hatred toward these churches, for putting their congregations at risk.
There are many Christians who see the church building as the temple. I have heard many preachers refer to it as such. It bothers me to hear it, because of times like these. We are the church. We meet in a building that many refer to as the church. It is not the church though , and during times like these, the distinction is important.
Some may say, "I have spoken out about these retail places
being open". But if we are honest you are not hearing or seeing the backlash against retailers like you are against churches.
WHY? If someone in Krogers, unknowingly is infected, (asymptomatic) and this is highly, Abnormally, contagious (as we are told this virus is) then everyone in that place would very likely have it.
I get it churches are considered Non-essential, by the government and by most on social media..... they want their daily bread, but they disregard the Holy Word of God that tells us,
" Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeded forth from the mouth of God"
The word of God is "beyond measure "of greater importance/essential than the sustainment of this natural man.
......back to the Church, if a crowd is wrong in one place then it is wrong in another. If a pastor is liable for adults who decide to congregate at church, should they get sick, then the retail store Manager, those quiet on social media( maybe you) the government and local law enforcement are responsible (and should be jailed) for anyone who has visited these retailers and become infected.
One word, hypocrisy.
You see, I agree with much of this. It is my decision, as man of the house, to go to “church” or not. Also to go to Kroger’s or not. I personally believe it is much more important to feed my family than it is to go to a building that people call the church. I suspect you would feel likewise if your children were hungry. It’s scriptural to provide for your family. Meeting in a certain building, on a specific schedule, at a specific time, is more tradition than commandment. My family and myself ARE the church. And , although we are not meeting with others in the church, like we have traditionally done, we can meet with ourselves, with or without live-streamed sermons.
I disagree with pastors having authority to have church or not. I disagree with the manager of Kroger telling me to come buy groceries. But I do appreciate the church being available. And I am thankful that groceries are available. If I have to make a choice between groceries and going to “church” , I’ll choose groceries. I can have “church” at home. I can go to “church” in my living room. In a pinch, I may could even cobble together a decent sermon. Which is what I just did, in case nobody noticed.
Michael The Disciple
04-01-2020, 01:50 PM
Modern America is showing it's TRUE colors through the Coronavirus pandemic. (their hatred of God) Went to Krogers yesterday and there are wall to wall people, it's been this way other days . I've seen this be the norm from Jackson,Tn to Batesville,Ar and everywhere in between......but then......
Churches are shut down and pastors who dare hold services are jailed, while facebook and other social media spew hatred toward these churches, for putting their congregations at risk.
Some may say, "I have spoken out about these retail places
being open". But if we are honest you are not hearing or seeing the backlash against retailers like you are against churches.
WHY? If someone in Krogers, unknowingly is infected, (asymptomatic) and this is highly, Abnormally, contagious (as we are told this virus is) then everyone in that place would very likely have it.
I get it churches are considered Non-essential, by the government and by most on social media..... they want their daily bread, but they disregard the Holy Word of God that tells us,
" Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeded forth from the mouth of God"
The word of God is "beyond measure "of greater importance/essential than the sustainment of this natural man.
......back to the Church, if a crowd is wrong in one place then it is wrong in another. If a pastor is liable for adults who decide to congregate at church, should they get sick, then the retail store Manager, those quiet on social media( maybe you) the government and local law enforcement are responsible (and should be jailed) for anyone who has visited these retailers and become infected.
One word, hypocrisy.
Nails it!
diakonos
04-01-2020, 02:48 PM
I wish people would stop calling it Krogers. It’s Kroger.
Tithesmeister
04-01-2020, 02:52 PM
I wish people would stop calling it Krogers. It’s Kroger.
Kroger’s is a local grocery store. It is owned by Kroger. Feel better?
diakonos
04-01-2020, 03:18 PM
https://p4t6u7k5.stackpathcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/What-Time-Does-Krogr-Stop-Selling-Alcohol-Featured-Image-768x511.jpg
diakonos
04-01-2020, 03:18 PM
Kroger’s is a local grocery store. It is owned by Kroger. Feel better?
I feel fine.
james34
04-01-2020, 08:00 PM
Brother, I think you are overreacting here. I don’t run into people who “hate God” hardly at all. I think the much more dangerous reaction to God is indifference. Many people are indifferent to God. Many people who are indifferent to God, claim to be Christians.
I'm not sure if you are saying these people dont exist, or just that you haven't run into them.
There are many Christians who see the church building as the temple. I have heard many preachers refer to it as such. It bothers me to hear it, because of times like these. We are the church. We meet in a building that many refer to as the church. It is not the church though , and during times like these, the distinction is important.
I completely agree the body of Christ is the people. That's a given. But when the world (who doesnt understand that, but thinks the church is the people and the building), get triggered over the church congregating at the building, but are not equally as alarmed by crowded isles at Kroger....it just shows their cup running over with hypocrisy.
You see, I agree with much of this. It is my decision, as man of the house, to go to “church” or not. Also to go to Kroger’s or not. I personally believe it is much more important to feed my family than it is to go to a building that people call the church. I suspect you would feel likewise if your children were hungry. It’s scriptural to provide for your family. Meeting in a certain building, on a specific schedule, at a specific time, is more tradition than commandment. My family and myself ARE the church. And , although we are not meeting with others in the church, like we have traditionally done, we can meet with ourselves, with or without live-streamed sermons.
This completely avoids the whole point, ....Either its dangerous to have lots of people in 1 place or its not. Doesnt matter if it's the church house or if its Kroger.
I disagree with pastors having authority to have church or not. I disagree with the manager of Kroger telling me to come buy groceries. But I do appreciate the church being available. And I am thankful that groceries are available. If I have to make a choice between groceries and going to “church” , I’ll choose groceries. I can have “church” at home. I can go to “church” in my living room. In a pinch, I may could even cobble together a decent sermon. Which is what I just did, in case nobody noticed.
Some Christians feel differently, like Job....
Job 23:12
Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food
james34
04-01-2020, 08:05 PM
I wish people would stop calling it Krogers. It’s Kroger.
Must be nice , only problem you have in life is someone saying the name of a retail store wrong,
Pretty sure this is more of a footmen level burden though, try not to get weary:happydance
If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses?
Tithesmeister
04-01-2020, 08:59 PM
I'm not sure if you are saying these people dont exist, or just that you haven't run into them.
I’m not saying that people who hate God don’t exist, I know that they do. And, I have run into them myself. However, they are scarce as hens teeth compared to the indifference of people who call themselves Christians.
I completely agree the body of Christ is the people. That's a given. But when the world (who doesnt understand that, but thinks the church is the people and the building), get triggered over the church congregating at the building, but are not equally as alarmed by crowded isles at Kroger....it just shows their cup running over with hypocrisy.
I’m just saying, if you get hungry enough, or your kids, assuming you have any, get hungry enough, you’ll most likely understand that you can have church in your living room. And you’ll be in line with the rest of us, trying to get into Kroger to get some groceries.
This completely avoids the whole point, ....Either its dangerous to have lots of people in 1 place or its not. Doesnt matter if it's the church house or if its Kroger.
My point is that I can have church at home. If I don’t starve to death already. Starving to death is dangerous too.
Some Christians feel differently, like Job....
Job 23:12
Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food
Having church at home doesn’t break any commandments that I’m aware of. Job probably had church at home, come to think of it. The New Testament Church did as well. What kind of food was Job talking about? Necessary food?
That’s what I’m talking about!
Tithesmeister
04-01-2020, 09:01 PM
Must be nice , only problem you have in life is someone saying the name of a retail store wrong,
Pretty sure this is more of a footmen level burden though, try not to get weary:happydance
If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses?
I agree with you brother. Some problems are bigger than others. Can’t you just feel his pain though?:thumbsup
james34
04-01-2020, 09:58 PM
I’m not saying that people who hate God don’t exist, I know that they do. And, I have run into them myself. However, they are scarce as hens teeth compared to the indifference of people who call themselves Christians.
I was just talking about the ones that hate God.
I’m just saying, if you get hungry enough, or your kids, assuming you have any, get hungry enough, you’ll most likely understand that you can have church in your living room. And you’ll be in line with the rest of us, trying to get into Kroger to get some groceries.
BUT I wouldn't go home and rant on social media about people congregating in buildings called churches, accusing them of spreading the infection. The hypocrisy is not even with the number of people at Kroger, it's with the silence on the issue when it comes to Kroger, but then the vocal disdain for those meeting at the church buildings.
Why would it not just as likely be spread at Krogers? Could they not enforce a rule limiting the amount of shoppers in the store at any given time. Yes they could , and maybe do in some instances, but not everywhere and where they dont noone seems to be crying for there to be a tightening of the rules to limit the spread of disease. This is by definition hypocrisy.
My point is that I can have church at home. If I don’t starve to death already. Starving to death is dangerous too.
It was at the point of extreme hunger that Jesus said, Man liveth not by bread alone ....he was rejecting what was being offered to eat because of who was offering the food.
With your line of reasoning , you could take the mark, since you cant buy sell or trade without it. You cant buy food, (starving to death is dangerous too) the mark is the only way , therefore it would be justifiable?
Having church at home doesn’t break any commandments that I’m aware of. Job probably had church at home, come to think of it. The New Testament Church did as well. What kind of food was Job talking about? Necessary food?
That’s what I’m talking about!
The kind that was less important than the Word of God
Esaias
04-01-2020, 10:52 PM
I wish people would stop calling it Krogers. It’s Kroger.
Mandela's Effect.
Michael The Disciple
04-04-2020, 06:34 AM
Now only a certain number of customers are allowed in Walmart.
https://corporate.walmart.com/newsroom/2020/04/03/changes-to-our-shopping-process-to-encourage-social-distancing
Nicodemus1968
04-04-2020, 08:09 AM
Now only a certain number of customers are allowed in Walmart.
https://corporate.walmart.com/newsroom/2020/04/03/changes-to-our-shopping-process-to-encourage-social-distancing
Home Depot, Sams Club, Lowe’s.
Esaias
04-05-2020, 11:44 AM
Look at what's being proposed! Oh goody!
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kotlikoff/2020/03/29/group-testing-is-our-secret-weapon-against-coronavirus/
"There is now a 15-minute coronavirus test. What we need to do is group-household test each day. The method is simple. A testing mobile, manned by military personnel, would come to your street early each morning. The members of your household and maybe another 9 (the best number is yet to be determined) would be invited to provide a swab sample. All the swabs of all the households would be collectively used to test if any of the swabs was positive. Fifteen minutes later your group of households would either be cleared to go to work and frequent stores, restaurants, and other establishments for the day or not. If you're cleared, you'd get a green bracelet that would automatically change to red after 24 hours. Those with green bracelets would be returned to normal society. If your group of households tested positive, subgroup testing would be done, on the spot, until it was discovered which of your group's 10 households was infected and which weren't. Those households that were infected (had one or more infected members) would need to go into quarantine.
The military is the only group that can conduct this critical mission across the country efficiently and effectively in the time required. The military personnel doing the testing would be extensively trained, have protective gear, and follow a protocol would be established to limit, to the maximum extent possible, uninfected people becoming infected in the course of the testing. The public fully trusts our women and men in uniform and will comply with their instructions. "
Esaias
04-08-2020, 01:17 AM
WHO is now talking about removing people from their homes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT1PcxcVhRE
Freeindeed
04-08-2020, 06:25 AM
Look at what's being proposed! Oh goody!
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kotlikoff/2020/03/29/group-testing-is-our-secret-weapon-against-coronavirus/
"There is now a 15-minute coronavirus test. What we need to do is group-household test each day. The method is simple. A testing mobile, manned by military personnel, would come to your street early each morning. The members of your household and maybe another 9 (the best number is yet to be determined) would be invited to provide a swab sample. All the swabs of all the households would be collectively used to test if any of the swabs was positive. Fifteen minutes later your group of households would either be cleared to go to work and frequent stores, restaurants, and other establishments for the day or not. If you're cleared, you'd get a green bracelet that would automatically change to red after 24 hours. Those with green bracelets would be returned to normal society. If your group of households tested positive, subgroup testing would be done, on the spot, until it was discovered which of your group's 10 households was infected and which weren't. Those households that were infected (had one or more infected members) would need to go into quarantine.
The military is the only group that can conduct this critical mission across the country efficiently and effectively in the time required. The military personnel doing the testing would be extensively trained, have protective gear, and follow a protocol would be established to limit, to the maximum extent possible, uninfected people becoming infected in the course of the testing. The public fully trusts our women and men in uniform and will comply with their instructions. "
What I've read was they've found that a high percentage of those test kits showed a false positive.
What happens if you test positive? Are they going to drag you out of your house and lock you up? My dad told me yesterday that they were building a "hospital" at NRG (sports stadium). Houston has one of the largest medical centers in the country. Does it really need another hospital at the stadium?
What will happen if you refuse the test?
votivesoul
04-09-2020, 02:59 AM
Recently in WI:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/07/politics/wisconsin-primary-coronavirus/index.html
Esaias
04-10-2020, 12:28 AM
Food shortages coming due to meat packing plants being shut down and farmers allegedly being told to dump food. Rumor at present but I'm looking into it.
Also, how many rabbis and imams have been arrested for refusing to cancel services? Or is it just pastors?
Esaias
04-10-2020, 12:31 AM
WATCH: Police Raid Church’s Drive-In Service, Issue $500 Tickets to Entire Congregation
Police in Greenville, Mississippi raided the parking lot of Temple Baptist Church during a drive-in prayer service and issued $500 fines to everyone in attendance – including many elderly congregants.
https://www.toddstarnes.com/faith/watch-police-raid-churchs-drive-in-service-issue-500-tickets-to-entire-congregation/
Esaias
04-10-2020, 11:27 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4jr0wkt7HY
Michael The Disciple
04-10-2020, 07:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4jr0wkt7HY
Its just staggering.
james34
04-10-2020, 08:07 PM
This change over from freedom to state owned slave is well under way, they have crossed so many lines that it is unlikely they will back off. So we are probably seeing the beginning of what they want us to accept as the new normal.
Michael The Disciple
04-11-2020, 04:58 AM
This change over from freedom to state owned slave is well under way, they have crossed so many lines that it is unlikely they will back off. So we are probably seeing the beginning of what they want us to accept as the new normal.
Amen
Amanah
04-11-2020, 06:26 AM
This change over from freedom to state owned slave is well under way, they have crossed so many lines that it is unlikely they will back off. So we are probably seeing the beginning of what they want us to accept as the new normal.
When Christians were warned that the Romans were going to sack Jerusalem and destroy the temple , the church moved out and took the gospel to the world.
Right now we have up to 500+ people coming to church 2 or 3 times a week for a word from God without taking responsibility to learn how to lead their families and preach the gospel themselves.
james34
04-11-2020, 07:59 AM
When Christians were warned that the Romans were going to sack Jerusalem and destroy the temple , the church moved out and took the gospel to the world.
Right now we have up to 500+ people coming to church 2 or 3 times a week for a word from God without taking responsibility to learn how to lead their families and preach the gospel themselves.
True, I can see how church has become so intertwined with religion, that it is hard to know where to begin the pruning cut, to separate the wheat from the chaff.that is. But God knows and will use this all for the good of the body.It is sad to see it come to this, I have pleaded with pastors in apostolic churches to stand on various truths, to no avail. When the church is persecuted the line will be made more clearly visible, it is already drawn but many other lines have been drawn near it (the truth), resulting in a muddying of the waters in an attempt to make it appear as though there were no absolute truths.
Amanah
04-11-2020, 08:32 AM
True, I can see how church has become so intertwined with religion, that it is hard to know where to begin the pruning cut, to separate the wheat from the chaff.that is. But God knows and will use this all for the good of the body.It is sad to see it come to this, I have pleaded with pastors in apostolic churches to stand on various truths, to no avail. When the church is persecuted the line will be made more clearly visible, it is already drawn but many other lines have been drawn near it (the truth), resulting in a muddying of the waters in an attempt to make it appear as though there were no absolute truths.
:thumbsup
Monterrey
04-11-2020, 10:32 AM
When Christians were warned that the Romans were going to sack Jerusalem and destroy the temple , the church moved out and took the gospel to the world.
Right now we have up to 500+ people coming to church 2 or 3 times a week for a word from God without taking responsibility to learn how to lead their families and preach the gospel themselves.
Awesome:thumbsup
Esaias
04-11-2020, 11:22 PM
You will not be allowed to leave your house unless you submit to a phony-baloney "test" (which won't prove anything except that you will do EXACTLY what you're told").
You will not be allowed to associate with more than a government approved number of people for only government approved purposes.
If the phony test shows you "positive" you will be taken away to a government-mandated facility with no visitors, or you will be placed under house arrest.
You will be harassed, ticketed, and fined, and arrested, and jailed for going to an empty park, an empty beach, sitting in your car, sitting in your backyard, etc. Why? Because that's what communism is - unending relentless harassment by government agents willing and even eager to KILL YOU for the slightest hint of anything but immediate cowering compliant obedience.
Sound crazy? Tin foil hat? IT'S ALREADY HAPPENING.
This is where America is. A literal communist dictatorship. Using a bogus viral (non)pandemic as the excuse to enslave everybody. It's already happened.
All the dystopian fictionary stories, crazy "conspiracy theories" about a martial law takeover, communist subversion and overthrow, the 1984 surveillance state, yada yada yada... is HERE NOW IN FULL OPERATION.
If anyone doesn't see it they have to be blind and in denial.
EVERY tyranny had a large percentage of its population in support, always making excuses, for the tyranny. Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, Communist China, and every other dictatorship. They ALL had plenty of willing snitches, plenty of supporters, plenty of people denying the obvious, no lack of people contantly making excuses for the tyranny and despotism.
They ALL had "patriotic citizens" extolling the virtues of their country, they ALL had plenty of citizens who felt that anyone daring to suggest tyranny was going on was dangerous, radical, extremist, mentally ill, stupid, and likely needed to be locked up by the government. Every single tyranny in history had plenty of people who believed wholeheartedly that anybody warning about tyranny needed to be made to just go away.
And here we are. America, 2020.
Look at your kids and grandkids. Look in their eyes. And ask yourself: "What legacy am I leaving them? What am I really willing to do to give them a chance to live free? Or will I sell their future out for a bowl of pottage? Will I buy the chains that shall enslave them, myself? Will I sell my children's and my grandchildren's future and freedom just to try and ensure a comfy life for myself? Just to make sure I am not faced with any real hardship? To make sure I keep up with the Joneses, and can remain a Good.Model.Citizen-SLAVE?"
Most will never even give two thoughts or two seconds' notice to such concepts. It is simply beyond them. Perhaps some will.
" The liberties of our country, the freedoms of our civil Constitution are worth defending at all hazards; it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors. They purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood. It will bring a mark of everlasting infamy on the present generation – enlightened as it is – if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of designing men."
- Samuel Adams
Esaias
04-11-2020, 11:42 PM
WHO official says government will have to enter and forcibly remove people from their homes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgHeuzM6mDU
Esaias
04-11-2020, 11:52 PM
Days Before Easter, California County Makes Going to Church a Crime
https://www.westernjournal.com/days-easter-california-county-makes-going-church-crime/
james34
04-12-2020, 01:29 PM
You will not be allowed to leave your house unless you submit to a phony-baloney "test" (which won't prove anything except that you will do EXACTLY what you're told").
You will not be allowed to associate with more than a government approved number of people for only government approved purposes.
If the phony test shows you "positive" you will be taken away to a government-mandated facility with no visitors, or you will be placed under house arrest.
You will be harassed, ticketed, and fined, and arrested, and jailed for going to an empty park, an empty beach, sitting in your car, sitting in your backyard, etc. Why? Because that's what communism is - unending relentless harassment by government agents willing and even eager to KILL YOU for the slightest hint of anything but immediate cowering compliant obedience.
Sound crazy? Tin foil hat? IT'S ALREADY HAPPENING.
This is where America is. A literal communist dictatorship. Using a bogus viral (non)pandemic as the excuse to enslave everybody. It's already happened.
All the dystopian fictionary stories, crazy "conspiracy theories" about a martial law takeover, communist subversion and overthrow, the 1984 surveillance state, yada yada yada... is HERE NOW IN FULL OPERATION.
If anyone doesn't see it they have to be blind and in denial.
EVERY tyranny had a large percentage of its population in support, always making excuses, for the tyranny. Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, Communist China, and every other dictatorship. They ALL had plenty of willing snitches, plenty of supporters, plenty of people denying the obvious, no lack of people contantly making excuses for the tyranny and despotism.
They ALL had "patriotic citizens" extolling the virtues of their country, they ALL had plenty of citizens who felt that anyone daring to suggest tyranny was going on was dangerous, radical, extremist, mentally ill, stupid, and likely needed to be locked up by the government. Every single tyranny in history had plenty of people who believed wholeheartedly that anybody warning about tyranny needed to be made to just go away.
And here we are. America, 2020.
Look at your kids and grandkids. Look in their eyes. And ask yourself: "What legacy am I leaving them? What am I really willing to do to give them a chance to live free? Or will I sell their future out for a bowl of pottage? Will I buy the chains that shall enslave them, myself? Will I sell my children's and my grandchildren's future and freedom just to try and ensure a comfy life for myself? Just to make sure I am not faced with any real hardship? To make sure I keep up with the Joneses, and can remain a Good.Model.Citizen-SLAVE?"
Most will never even give two thoughts or two seconds' notice to such concepts. It is simply beyond them. Perhaps some will.
" The liberties of our country, the freedoms of our civil Constitution are worth defending at all hazards; it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors. They purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood. It will bring a mark of everlasting infamy on the present generation – enlightened as it is – if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of designing men."
- Samuel Adams
Yeah Fox news calls it (former head of cdc )
“Box it in. That’s the basic concept here. Box in COVID,” Frieden said on Saturday. He then outlined the four corners of the box that he said will keep the new coronavirus “at bay.”
He said the four corners of the box include testing widely, isolating safely, contact tracing completely and quarantining comfortably.
Esaias
04-12-2020, 02:00 PM
Weird video claiming to be an interview of a FEMA person announcing what's being planned:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCVU-BN8jog
Jito463
04-13-2020, 07:39 PM
Hawaii is enforcing a strict stay-at-home order, effectively at gunpoint.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UIMWsmGRpI
"If you're out running, and you're in the water, that's okay. If you're on the sand, you're violating the order"
Really?! Running in the waterline is okay, running in the sand isn't?! How insane is that.
Esaias
04-14-2020, 12:54 AM
Kentucky judges order coronavirus patients, others to wear GPS ankle monitors for refusing to stay home
https://www.foxnews.com/us/kentucky-judges-order-coronavirus-patients-others-to-wear-gps-ankle-monitors-for-refusing-to-stay-home
Esaias
04-14-2020, 12:58 AM
Katie Spencer posted a photo to Facebook of the order police handed her when they took her children away late last month. It clearly cites her “proximity to coronavirus” as the reason for taking the kids.
https://thefreethoughtproject.com/healthcare-worker-says-kids-taken-by-police-because-her-job-exposes-her-to-coronavirus/
Freeindeed
04-15-2020, 06:11 AM
We know that when Trump declared a National Emergency that at that exact moment he transferred all powers to FEMA helping to usher in the NWO.
At that exact moment he became nothing more than a mouthpiece for the federal government. FEMA will decide when the crisis is over not the president, that is just how it works.
Our president is in a catch 22 and there isn't anything he can do about it. NOTHING...
Esaias
04-15-2020, 04:23 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmZsHwodxIY
n david
04-15-2020, 05:45 PM
We know that when Trump declared a National Emergency that at that exact moment he transferred all powers to FEMA helping to usher in the NWO.
At that exact moment he became nothing more than a mouthpiece for the federal government. FEMA will decide when the crisis is over not the president, that is just how it works.
Our president is in a catch 22 and there isn't anything he can do about it. NOTHING...
https://media.giphy.com/media/qmfpjpAT2fJRK/giphy.gif
n david
04-15-2020, 05:54 PM
Katie Spencer posted a photo to Facebook of the order police handed her when they took her children away late last month. It clearly cites her “proximity to coronavirus” as the reason for taking the kids.
https://thefreethoughtproject.com/healthcare-worker-says-kids-taken-by-police-because-her-job-exposes-her-to-coronavirus/
Since I work in this field, it's important to note facts. The father of the children filed a motion with the court for an emergency custody order. This is nothing new. Fractured families constantly file orders against each other all the time. I see this every single day. I've attended hearings and stipulation conferences and mediation for custodial and non-custodial parents too many times to count in the 5+ years I've been working in this field.
This isn't "tyranny." This is basic family law 101.
n david
04-15-2020, 06:09 PM
You will not be allowed to leave your house unless you submit to a phony-baloney "test" (which won't prove anything except that you will do EXACTLY what you're told").
False. I haven't once been stopped by the police since this pandemic began. We've visited parks, stores, church, walked trails and lived pretty normally since even the Gov announced a stay home order.
You will not be allowed to associate with more than a government approved number of people for only government approved purposes.
False.
If the phony test shows you "positive" you will be taken away to a government-mandated facility with no visitors, or you will be placed under house arrest.
False. This isn't China. No one's being dragged out of their home or forced into a government facility. I don't know of anyone placed under house arrest.
You will be harassed, ticketed, and fined, and arrested, and jailed for going to an empty park, an empty beach, sitting in your car, sitting in your backyard, etc. Why? Because that's what communism is - unending relentless harassment by government agents willing and even eager to KILL YOU for the slightest hint of anything but immediate cowering compliant obedience.
False. Good grief, man. Have you no shame?
Sound crazy? Tin foil hat? IT'S ALREADY HAPPENING.
No, it's not happening.
This is where America is. A literal communist dictatorship. Using a bogus viral (non)pandemic as the excuse to enslave everybody. It's already happened.
No, it's not a "literal communist dictatorship." You should visit an actual communist dictatorship before claiming that America is a literal communist dictatorship.
Your posts and opinions have sunk to Rabbi Cahn-man and the nuts who put dates on the rapture status.
You should write a book though, I'm sure there are enough gullible people out there who would make it a best seller.
james34
04-15-2020, 06:51 PM
We know that when Trump declared a National Emergency that at that exact moment he transferred all powers to FEMA helping to usher in the NWO.
At that exact moment he became nothing more than a mouthpiece for the federal government. FEMA will decide when the crisis is over not the president, that is just how it works.
Our president is in a catch 22 and there isn't anything he can do about it. NOTHING...
:thumbsup
Esaias
04-15-2020, 10:46 PM
American Medical ID values your safety and we encourage everyone to be smart and prepare for the impact of Coronavirus, such as the following scenarios outlined by CDC:
Self or community quarantines or lockdowns
Supply shortages
Interruptions in power, communications, and emergency medical services
Limited capacity or closures of pharmacies, hospitals, urgent cares, and outpatient centers
https://www.americanmedical-id.com/covid19
KeptByTheWord
04-15-2020, 11:45 PM
Very interesting perspective, news out of China.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfSxne11Yjk
Esaias
04-16-2020, 12:16 AM
Very interesting perspective, news out of China.
There is no such thing as "news out of China". There is only propaganda. "State media" indeed.
Whoop Harted
04-16-2020, 08:19 AM
False. I haven't once been stopped by the police since this pandemic began. We've visited parks, stores, church, walked trails and lived pretty normally since even the Gov announced a stay home order.
False.
False. This isn't China. No one's being dragged out of their home or forced into a government facility. I don't know of anyone placed under house arrest.
False. Good grief, man. Have you no shame?
No, it's not happening.
No, it's not a "literal communist dictatorship." You should visit an actual communist dictatorship before claiming that America is a literal communist dictatorship.
Your posts and opinions have sunk to Rabbi Cahn-man and the nuts who put dates on the rapture status.
You should write a book though, I'm sure there are enough gullible people out there who would make it a best seller.
Ah, but when you are propagating fear you must say this.
Esaias
04-16-2020, 09:12 PM
Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates will launch human-implantable capsules that have ‘digital certificates’ which can show who has been tested for the coronavirus and who has been vaccinated against it.
https://biohackinfo.com/news-bill-gates-id2020-vaccine-implant-covid-19-digital-certificates/
Esaias
04-17-2020, 11:36 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPP2EaC5gj8
Michael The Disciple
04-18-2020, 06:25 AM
The truth is so shocking the masses cannot believe their governments could possibly be part of it.
Esaias
04-19-2020, 05:09 AM
Local news utube channel. Visit their channel and READ THE COMMENTS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLbvAFxprzw
Esaias
04-21-2020, 02:38 AM
Montana County Demands People Wear Government-Issued Arm Bands To Do Business
https://montanadailygazette.com/2020/04/14/montana-county-demands-people-wear-government-issued-arm-bands-to-do-business/
Jito463
04-21-2020, 01:07 PM
Montana County Demands People Wear Government-Issued Arm Bands To Do Business
https://montanadailygazette.com/2020/04/14/montana-county-demands-people-wear-government-issued-arm-bands-to-do-business/
Minor correction, it was Valley County in Montana, and the health department has already issued a retraction. Oops, it was all just a misunderstanding, guys. Nothing to see here.
https://montanadailygazette.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/93550466_10217158047571340_7184211050357587968_o.j pg
james34
04-22-2020, 06:53 AM
What is crazy is all of the social distance people will be ready to reopen asking the same amount of questions as when everything closed=none. They just wait for the one who knows all (media) . If you were the government and desired that people believe you, would you send instructions through the media?
Freeindeed
04-26-2020, 02:27 PM
Microsoft has a patent on a new cryptocurrency. This patent number is 060606. The video below talks about how this cryptocurrency also has a feature to track everyone on the planet.
This tracking system couldn't function without the 5G technology...
The first half of the 12 minute video addresses this topic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwxtcNWTbjE&list=PLGng1WuAZyt6RttZVHseP14YR2ANUKrzz&index=10&t=0s
TGBTG
04-26-2020, 03:04 PM
Microsoft has a patent on a new cryptocurrency. This patent number is 060606. The video below talks about how this cryptocurrency also has a feature to track everyone on the planet.
This tracking system couldn't function without the 5G technology...
The first half of the 12 minute video addresses this topic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwxtcNWTbjE&list=PLGng1WuAZyt6RttZVHseP14YR2ANUKrzz&index=10&t=0s
Hahaha...futurists having a field day...I remember when I was one:thumbsup
james34
04-27-2020, 05:59 PM
The following is a quote from Tyson Foods Chairman,
"Still, Tyson said the supply chain will remain “vulnerable” and confirmed a “limited supply of our products” until its own plants could reopen.
“The government bodies at the national, state and county levels must unite in a comprehensive way to allow our team members to work in safety without fear, panic or worry,” he wrote. “The private and public sectors must come together.”..................
What do you suppose the comprehensive way to work in safety without fear or worry? Could it be through mass testing, contact tracing, forced vaccination ...also real time tracking of citizens supposedly for the purpose of catching any spike in cases the moment an outbreak begans.
Tyson also is projecting food shortages to come soon ( due to shortage of staff) unless the government steps in to make Tyson employees (who are supposedly "Chicken") feel safe in the workplace
https://fxn.ws/3aHU32U
Freeindeed
04-27-2020, 06:23 PM
The following is a quote from Tyson Foods Chairman,
"Still, Tyson said the supply chain will remain “vulnerable” and confirmed a “limited supply of our products” until its own plants could reopen.
“The government bodies at the national, state and county levels must unite in a comprehensive way to allow our team members to work in safety without fear, panic or worry,” he wrote. “The private and public sectors must come together.”..................
What do you suppose the comprehensive way to work in safety without fear or worry? Could it be through mass testing, contact tracing, forced vaccination ...also real time tracking of citizens supposedly for the purpose of catching any spike in cases the moment an outbreak begans.
Tyson also is projecting food shortages to come soon ( due to shortage of staff) unless the government steps in to make Tyson employees (who are supposedly "Chicken") feel safe in the workplace
https://fxn.ws/3aHU32U
There have been a lot of reports of coming food shortages.
They are definitely preparing society for forced vaccines and vaccine identification.
Esaias
04-28-2020, 02:29 AM
Chicago prepped for mass vaccinations
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpIabs5fVSI
Esaias
04-29-2020, 12:03 AM
Millions Of Of Pigs, Chickens And Cattle Are Being Euthanized While The Media Warns “Shortages” Are Coming
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/millions-of-of-pigs-chickens-and-cattle-are-being-euthanized-while-the-media-warns-shortages-are-coming
diakonos
04-29-2020, 08:49 AM
Seems inaccurate to me. To my understanding, the waste is what would have went to restaurants that were fully open.
Esaias
04-29-2020, 11:11 AM
Seems inaccurate to me. To my understanding, the waste is what would have went to restaurants that were fully open.
Yes, at first. Which I also had mentioned.
But.
They are dumping stock that clearly is going to be needed. The fact there are shortages means the "extra" should be distributed/sold, not wasted. It's all planned (Event201, etc) and this is just the current phase.
There is no "oops" involved.
diakonos
04-29-2020, 11:18 AM
They do not have the means to distribute, per what I’ve read... or maybe viewed.
Esaias
04-29-2020, 03:20 PM
They do not have the means to distribute, per what I’ve read... or maybe viewed.
So farmers and ranchers can't get their products off the property all of a sudden? Really?
I don't think so. They could just as easily sell it to grocers as restaurants. It's not like grocers get their food from someplace OTHER than the farms and ranches.
james34
04-29-2020, 07:45 PM
Hold on wait a minute. All of this food is being destroyed because restaurant demand is down? Foul!
The driver of demand for food is hunger, not where people eat. So if the restaurants are closed or slow, it's because people aren't eating there. But I have a funny feeling they haven't quit eating. Or maybe they have and there are large segments of the population sitting home starving themselves to death. This however is not likely. So therefore people are still eating. The overall demand for food should still be at a place at least where it is unnecessary to destroy food. So if demand is down at restaurants, it should be up in grocery stores or somewhere, No?
james34
04-29-2020, 08:09 PM
It isnt fear mongering when the Government/Media inject mass panic and fear into society, telling them the best way to stay safe is stay home. So much to this point that food processing plant employees are fearful to go to work and therefore there will be an unnecessary food shortage, which has potential to disrupt lives more than the virus. Something this ridiculous has the obvious undertones of a well orchestrated event, but not a true unavoidable crisis.
Esaias
04-29-2020, 10:05 PM
Hold on wait a minute. All of this food is being destroyed because restaurant demand is down? Foul!
The driver of demand for food is hunger, not where people eat. So if the restaurants are closed or slow, it's because people aren't eating there. But I have a funny feeling they haven't quit eating. Or maybe they have and there are large segments of the population sitting home starving themselves to death. This however is not likely. So therefore people are still eating. The overall demand for food should still be at a place at least where it is unnecessary to destroy food. So if demand is down at restaurants, it should be up in grocery stores or somewhere, No?
Winner winner chicken dinner! :)
I've noticed the local Wal Mart seems permanently short on beef, chicken, and various canned goods, flour, etc. Demand is there, even higher due to 1) people trying to stock extra and 2) can't eat out like they used to. So why a 2 month ongoing shortage? It's because of ARTIFICIAL SCARCITY.
The Holodomor in Russia and the Ukraine was CREATED. Even the Irish Famine in the 1840s was purely created and artificial. Control the food, you control the people.
We are being intentionally conditioned to communist style bread lines. By design.
That's why everyone should be putting in a victory garden of some kind, at least.
Jito463
05-16-2020, 12:01 PM
Wisconsin state Supreme Court has ruled the governor's "stay at home" orders to be un-Constitutional.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/may/14/wisconsin-high-court-kicks-stay-home-orders-curb-p/
The Wisconsin Supreme Court just struck down the state’s stay-at-home orders, saying in a scathing 4-3 ruling that the heath secretary has no right to use the coronavirus as justification to confine free citizens to their residences — that the order was “unlawful, invalid and unenforceable.”
Now let's get the rest of the locked down states to open up, and free the people from their government enforced house arrest.
jfrog
05-16-2020, 12:11 PM
Wisconsin state Supreme Court has ruled the governor's "stay at home" orders to be un-Constitutional.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/may/14/wisconsin-high-court-kicks-stay-home-orders-curb-p/
Now let's get the rest of the locked down states to open up, and free the people from their government enforced house arrest.
I fear that there will come a time when we will regret such rulings. But then again the courts tend to find constitutions pretty flexible when they want them to be.
Speaking of the court ruling stay at home orders unconstitutional. Does that put the state government on the hook for any individual property or monetary loss due to the unconstitutional order?
Jito463
05-16-2020, 12:16 PM
I fear that there will come a time when we will regret such rulings.
You're going to have to explain that one to me, because it seems pretty clear cut to me. The state didn't have the right to lock down healthy people in their homes, and the courts ruled as such. Why would we regret that?
But then again the courts tend to find constitutions pretty flexible when they want them to be.
Sadly true, but what does that have to do with what I posted?
Speaking of the court ruling stay at home orders unconstitutional. Does that put the state government on the hook for any individual property or monetary loss due to the unconstitutional order?
Good question. I'd argue that the politicians who implemented it should be held personally responsible, though I know that won't happen. Possibly in a class action lawsuit, but not as a sweeping ruling from the courts.
jfrog
05-16-2020, 12:23 PM
You're going to have to explain that one to me, because it seems pretty clear cut to me. The state didn't have the right to lock down healthy people in their homes, and the courts ruled as such. Why would we regret that?
It seems to be in the realm of possibility that a virus extremely contagious and deadly could come around (much more so than this coronavirus for Wisconsin). It seems that such power should be appropriate in a situation like that.
Though I suppose that martial law could still accomplish the same thing and be constitutional.
Sadly true, but what does that have to do with what I posted?
Well, you were talking about a court ruling something unconstitutional. Seems related to discuss how easy it would be for said court in the future to make the exact opposite decision.
Good question. I'd argue that the politicians who implemented it should be held personally responsible, though I know that won't happen. Possibly in a class action lawsuit, but not as a sweeping ruling from the courts.
Yea, I'm surprised it's not been asked anywhere by any journalists. That's one of the first questions I had about the situation. Just makes me think actual journalism is dead.
Jito463
05-16-2020, 12:32 PM
It seems to be in the realm of possibility that a virus extremely contagious and deadly could come around (much more so than this coronavirus for Wisconsin). It seems that such power should be appropriate in a situation like that.
That power is never appropriate for the government to have. Ever.
As for the current scenario, every day we get more and more information that shows it wasn't nearly as deadly as they led us to believe (and in some cases, are still trying to make people believe).
Though I suppose that martial law could still accomplish the same thing and be constitutional.
Martial law would only apply when all order has been lost. That's literally the definition of martial law, where the law is suspended and the military takes over.
1) the law temporarily imposed upon an area by state or national military forces when civil authority has broken down or during wartime military operations.
2) the law imposed upon a defeated country or occupied territory by the military forces of the occupying power.
If it comes down to martial law, then we have far bigger problems than a virus.
jfrog
05-16-2020, 12:40 PM
That power is never appropriate for the government to have. Ever.
Why?
Jito463
05-16-2020, 12:49 PM
Why?
Why? Why should the government not have the authority to lock us down in our own homes? Are you really asking that as a serious question? :foottap
jfrog
05-16-2020, 01:32 PM
Why? Why should the government not have the authority to lock us down in our own homes? Are you really asking that as a serious question? :foottap
Way to twist my words and leave out context. No one has argued that they should have such a power all the time in every context.
The specific topic of this debate is: if there is ever an extremely deadly and contagious virus should the government have the authority to lock you down in your home?
Why do you believe they shouldn't have that authority in that specific circumstance?
Jito463
05-16-2020, 01:50 PM
Way to twist my words and leave out context. No one has argued that they should have such a power all the time in every context.
The specific topic of this debate is: if there is ever an extremely deadly and contagious virus should the government have the authority to lock you down in your home?
Why do you believe they shouldn't have that authority in that specific circumstance?
Because it's not the responsibility of government to make decisions for me. They serve us, not the other way around. Let them issue guidelines if they wish, but they do not have the right to decide for us.
And I didn't twist your words. I said that the government never has the right, and you asked why. What else should I presume from your comment?
jfrog
05-16-2020, 02:58 PM
Because it's not the responsibility of government to make decisions for me. They serve us, not the other way around. Let them issue guidelines if they wish, but they do not have the right to decide for us.
Not normally sure. But we aren't talking about a normal situation.
Jito463
05-16-2020, 04:40 PM
Not normally sure. But we aren't talking about a normal situation.
What do you define as a situation, whereby the government deserves to have the power to put us under house arrest? I can't think of a single scenario - outside of total societal collapse - that would qualify. And if society collapses, the government will be too busy to worry about keeping us in our homes.
jfrog
05-16-2020, 05:49 PM
What do you define as a situation, whereby the government deserves to have the power to put us under house arrest? I can't think of a single scenario - outside of total societal collapse - that would qualify. And if society collapses, the government will be too busy to worry about keeping us in our homes.
The same one I started with. A very contagious and deadly virus.
Jito463
05-16-2020, 06:00 PM
The same one I started with. A very contagious and deadly virus.
Here's the thing, if the virus is truly deadly, most people will inherently seek to protect themselves. If the government has to mandate it, one has to wonder why people aren't seeing the same thing they are.
I see no scenario wherein these orders are justified. Period.
james34
05-16-2020, 08:04 PM
The biggest problem with giving consent to the unconstitutional government overreach such as is being used in this pandemic, is there is no proof required of what MSM reports. There is just a lot of numbers and science and more reporting about how bad this pandemic is. The panic being mandated by the government seems to be their best proof to convince the public. But a bunch of fearful people doesnt prove that said fear is warranted.
In pandemics before electronic news via MSM , internet, radio etc the only way you would quarantine in a pandemic was if it was in your town and people you knew were getting sick and dying. This just isnt widespread that way. Sure some people know somebody, but not most. If it weren't for MSM most Americans would not have a clue about a pandemic. Seems the most widespread characteristic of this pandemic is the economic shutdown and social distancing guidelines aimed at ruining what is left of America as the last remaining liberties are lost forever.
Esaias
05-16-2020, 08:31 PM
From the Texas Supreme Court:
http://americandigest.org/the-constitution-is-not-suspended-when-the-government-declares-a-state-of-disaster/
“The Constitution is not suspended when the government declares a state of disaster.”
“All government power in this country, no matter how well-intentioned, derives only from the state and federal constitutions. Government power cannot be exercised in conflict with these constitutions, even in a pandemic."
coksiw
05-16-2020, 11:16 PM
Federal Judge denies request for Chula Vista church to resume in-person services
https://youtu.be/CdmAacblOJ8
Jito463
05-16-2020, 11:48 PM
Federal Judge denies request for Chula Vista church to resume in-person services
https://youtu.be/CdmAacblOJ8
Of course it's in Commiefornia.
When all the dust settles, we're going to find this is a lot more egregious than we even know now.
jfrog
05-17-2020, 12:19 AM
The biggest problem with giving consent to the unconstitutional government overreach such as is being used in this pandemic, is there is no proof required of what MSM reports. There is just a lot of numbers and science and more reporting about how bad this pandemic is. The panic being mandated by the government seems to be their best proof to convince the public. But a bunch of fearful people doesnt prove that said fear is warranted.
NYC and Italy are both important examples. It was very bad in both of those places. Both cases and deaths were growing exponentially before they looked down (Total cases were doubling ever 4 or so days. Covid-19 deaths every 6 or 7).
So we do have solid evidence that it wasn't just a bunch of hype. What wasn't acknowledged and still isn't is that what was happening in NYC and Italy was likely not going to be normative for the rest of the country or world.
In pandemics before electronic news via MSM , internet, radio etc the only way you would quarantine in a pandemic was if it was in your town and people you knew were getting sick and dying. This just isnt widespread that way. Sure some people know somebody, but not most. If it weren't for MSM most Americans would not have a clue about a pandemic. Seems the most widespread characteristic of this pandemic is the economic shutdown and social distancing guidelines aimed at ruining what is left of America as the last remaining liberties are lost forever.
You are making a major unfounded assumption - that the spread of covid-19 would have been the same without the lockdowns and major social distancing we have seen. I think we would have seen significantly higher numbers everywhere (but that can't be proven).
However, that's why I say we locked down most of the country way to early. People needed to see the real toll locally to have a lasting appreciation for many of the measures being implemented and advocated for. And possibly in the best case - we would have found that in some communities relatively few measures would have been sufficient to keep the hospitals from getting overwhelmed and vulnerable people from dying.
jfrog
05-17-2020, 12:32 AM
Here's the thing, if the virus is truly deadly, most people will inherently seek to protect themselves. If the government has to mandate it, one has to wonder why people aren't seeing the same thing they are.
I see no scenario wherein these orders are justified. Period.
Even in the most recent Texas decision reaffirming 1st Amendment rights (which Esias just cited an article about) - the decision didn't list those as absolute. Instead it argued for the government to prove that it's measures restricting 1st amendment rights were necessary.
Any government that has made the grave decision to suspend the liberties of a free people during a health emergency should welcome the opportunity to demonstrate—both to its citizens and to the courts—that its chosen measures are absolutely necessary to combat a threat of overwhelming severity. The government should also be expected to demonstrate that less restrictive measures cannot adequately address the threat
That's a difficult thing to prove - especially when lockdowns were instituted in places with very few deaths and very few cases without any other less restrictive methods being attempted first.
jfrog
05-17-2020, 12:37 AM
From the Texas Supreme Court:
http://americandigest.org/the-constitution-is-not-suspended-when-the-government-declares-a-state-of-disaster/
“The Constitution is not suspended when the government declares a state of disaster.”
“All government power in this country, no matter how well-intentioned, derives only from the state and federal constitutions. Government power cannot be exercised in conflict with these constitutions, even in a pandemic."
Yea but the most important part is:
Any government that has made the grave decision to suspend the liberties of a free people during a health emergency should welcome the opportunity to demonstrate—both to its citizens and to the courts—that its chosen measures are absolutely necessary to combat a threat of overwhelming severity. The government should also be expected to demonstrate that less restrictive measures cannot adequately address the threat
And thus leaving the door open to suspending rights when it can be shown to be absolutely necessary.
In other words, there being a state of disaster or pandemic is not sufficient reason to suspend rights - it must be absolutely necessary to do so in the given situation. I believe NYC likely met that requirement at least for a time period. I don't know that anywhere else in the U.S. has met that criteria since this started.
james34
05-17-2020, 07:16 AM
NYC and Italy are both important examples. It was very bad in both of those places. Both cases and deaths were growing exponentially before they looked down (Total cases were doubling ever 4 or so days. Covid-19 deaths every 6 or 7).
So we do have solid evidence that it wasn't just a bunch of hype. What wasn't acknowledged and still isn't is that what was happening in NYC and Italy was likely not going to be normative for the rest of the country or world.
You are making a major unfounded assumption - that the spread of covid-19 would have been the same without the lockdowns and major social distancing we have seen. I think we would have seen significantly higher numbers everywhere (but that can't be proven).
However, that's why I say we locked down most of the country way to early. People needed to see the real toll locally to have a lasting appreciation for many of the measures being implemented and advocated for. And possibly in the best case - we would have found that in some communities relatively few measures would have been sufficient to keep the hospitals from getting overwhelmed and vulnerable people from dying.
Yep just alot of speculation that is basically all we can do, but the one thing everyone is a eyewitness to is government overreach. Results speak loudly.
The actions taken by our government during this pandemic only serve to drive skepticism, with no rational or logical reason for most of their reactions concerning public policy.
Like voice aloud that a governor has power to stop gun sales, why is that important.
Why not close liquor stores. Why Costo and Walmart are trusted to (social distance and implement "safe" guidelines) and so remain open, but small businesses apparently couldn't be trusted and had to close.Why Bill Gates is being featured on MSM, but doctors with a professional opinion are ridiculed and silenced. There is so much evidence that this is more than just a bad virus, that it leaves people who are able to think objectively with nothing but skepticism. Even in New York , Cuomo sent elderly Covid 19 patients to nursing homes where the most at risk people are and as a result there are over 5000 deaths from nursing homes alone. Of course this assuming there is any truth left in news reports.
Jito463
05-17-2020, 07:17 AM
NYC and Italy are both important examples
NYC is an important example, because of the governor's incompetence in forcing nursing homes (the most at-risk group) to take in patients with C19, several thousand of the reputed deaths in the state were from those places.
However, you're still operating on the assumption that the numbers are even remotely as high as they claim. Cuomo yelled about not having enough respirators, and in the end they were practically giving them away because they had too many. He yelled about not enough bed space, yet both the makeshift hospital and the converted boat were barely even used (despite the fact they could have used those places for the nursing home residents with C19).
And the models that predicted the hospitals would be overrun, had already presumed the lockdown measures being implemented. The whole thing was a farce from the beginning.
Both cases and deaths were growing exponentially before they looked down (Total cases were doubling ever 4 or so days. Covid-19 deaths every 6 or 7).
I'm very curious to see what would happen, if every one of those bodies were exhumed and tested. I guarantee the number would not be as high as they claimed. I've said it before, despite you dismissing it out of hand, but we know for a fact that the CDC was allowing deaths to be reported as caused by C19, even without any testing whatsoever.
But you're just believing the government propaganda, and have clearly drunk the kool-aid. So I write this not for you, but for anyone else reading who may care.
james34
05-17-2020, 07:40 AM
Even in the most recent Texas decision reaffirming 1st Amendment rights (which Esias just cited an article about) - the decision didn't list those as absolute. Instead it argued for the government to prove that it's measures restricting 1st amendment rights were necessary.
That's a difficult thing to prove - especially when lockdowns were instituted in places with very few deaths and very few cases without any other less restrictive methods being attempted first.
Then in this case where necessity cant be proven, but government overreach can then this sets a dangerous precedent, namely that Government can impose martial law upon society thereby suspending freedoms and enforcing very controlling laws, and the only evidence required is some numbers and some reporting of numbers and some projected possible scenarios. What this really means is government can remove constitutional rights from the public by simply saying we are in grave danger
from an unseen enemy and they will let us know when it's safe again. This is the reason the enemy must be unseen. That way only scientists and doctors can verify the extent of the dangers. Not one of us can prove (beyond those we may personally know who have died or been ill) if the death toll is accurate or authentic. It's all based upon something someone else said. Why would we give blind trust to a corrupt system?
Would you come to my church if I condoned same gender marriage, if I funded abortions, if I removed prayer from public venues, if I through courts allowed the removal of crosses from public property, had transgenders in libraries reading to children, if I blessed Islam but condemned Christianity, legalized gambling, marijuana, left internet porn accessible to children with no safegaurd,, purposely expose own people to harmful bacteria, allow large corporations to poison the public and nature with their products and hide those harmful results from the people, allow political figures to compromise themselves by taking bribr money from other countries,...........Tell me again why you trust your government or their appointed medical experts.
james34
05-17-2020, 07:43 AM
NYC is an important example, because of the governor's incompetence in forcing nursing homes (the most at-risk group) to take in patients with C19, several thousand of the reputed deaths in the state were from those places.
However, you're still operating on the assumption that the numbers are even remotely as high as they claim. Cuomo yelled about not having enough respirators, and in the end they were practically giving them away because they had too many. He yelled about not enough bed space, yet both the makeshift hospital and the converted boat were barely even used (despite the fact they could have used those places for the nursing home residents with C19).
And the models that predicted the hospitals would be overrun, had already presumed the lockdown measures being implemented. The whole thing was a farce from the beginning.
I'm very curious to see what would happen, if every one of those bodies were exhumed and tested. I guarantee the number would not be as high as they claimed. I've said it before, despite you dismissing it out of hand, but we know for a fact that the CDC was allowing deaths to be reported as caused by C19, even without any testing whatsoever.
But you're just believing the government propaganda, and have clearly drunk the kool-aid. So I write this not for you, but for anyone else reading who may care.
Haha I just posted about the nursing homes in NYC
jfrog
05-17-2020, 09:04 AM
but we know for a fact that the CDC was allowing deaths to be reported as caused by C19, even without any testing whatsoever.
Yes. It is allowed to diagnose someone with covid-19 without a test - and should have been. Why was this done? Because there were a lot of people who weren't able to be tested. So then if that wasn't allowed the numbers would be greatly undercounted.
You're coming into this saying we must get 100% of the numbers correct. That's not possible. Instead the goal is to get as accurate a count as we can. We get a more accurate count (or at least did at the peak) by allowing deaths to be counted without a confirmed test.
jfrog
05-17-2020, 09:06 AM
NYC is an important example, because of the governor's incompetence in forcing nursing homes (the most at-risk group) to take in patients with C19, several thousand of the reputed deaths in the state were from those places.
You do realize it's possible that NYC was really bad while also bungling their response and making matters even worse? Those two points are not at odds with one another.
jfrog
05-17-2020, 09:09 AM
However, you're still operating on the assumption that the numbers are even remotely as high as they claim. Cuomo yelled about not having enough respirators, and in the end they were practically giving them away because they had too many. He yelled about not enough bed space, yet both the makeshift hospital and the converted boat were barely even used (despite the fact they could have used those places for the nursing home residents with C19).
That it didn't get as bad as predicted at the time doesn't mean it wasn't bad.
Again, if your point is that they bungled their response and made it worse then I fully agree. But that doesn't mean it wasn't bad or that their bungling is the only cause of it being bad.
jfrog
05-17-2020, 09:11 AM
And the models that predicted the hospitals would be overrun, had already presumed the lockdown measures being implemented. The whole thing was a farce from the beginning.
NYC hospitals were being overrun. It's like the things you say just don't square with reality because here we have an example where you are claiming they were not overrun.
jfrog
05-17-2020, 09:18 AM
I'm very curious to see what would happen, if every one of those bodies were exhumed and tested. I guarantee the number would not be as high as they claimed.
You want 80.000 dead to be disturbed for your conspiracy theory. That's low...
But you're just believing the government propaganda, and have clearly drunk the kool-aid. So I write this not for you, but for anyone else reading who may care.
:spit If you think I'm what someone sounds like that believes everything the MSM says then you live in one of the biggest bubbles I've ever seen. People that drink that koolaid believe every lockdown was justified and that no one should be reopening even now. I'm not in that boat so don't count me among them.
jfrog
05-17-2020, 09:22 AM
Then in this case where necessity cant be proven, but government overreach can then this sets a dangerous precedent, namely that Government can impose martial law upon society thereby suspending freedoms and enforcing very controlling laws, and the only evidence required is some numbers and some reporting of numbers and some projected possible scenarios. What this really means is government can remove constitutional rights from the public by simply saying we are in grave danger from an unseen enemy and they will let us know when it's safe again.
No, because you have the courts to shoot down any unfounded claims.
This is the reason the enemy must be unseen. That way only scientists and doctors can verify the extent of the dangers. Not one of us can prove (beyond those we may personally know who have died or been ill) if the death toll is accurate or authentic. It's all based upon something someone else said. Why would we give blind trust to a corrupt system?
That's generally true in any circumstance. Knowledge in any field is highly specialized. Regular public Joe doesn't have a clue how to properly defend against terrorists, pandemics, espionage, foreign militaries... heck he couldn't even clean up an oil spill if he wanted to.
Would you come to my church if I condoned same gender marriage, if I funded abortions, if I removed prayer from public venues, if I through courts allowed the removal of crosses from public property, had transgenders in libraries reading to children, if I blessed Islam but condemned Christianity, legalized gambling, marijuana, left internet porn accessible to children with no safegaurd,, purposely expose own people to harmful bacteria, allow large corporations to poison the public and nature with their products and hide those harmful results from the people, allow political figures to compromise themselves by taking bribr money from other countries,...........Tell me again why you trust your government or their appointed medical experts.
Weird rant. No idea where you were going with all that.
Jito463
05-17-2020, 11:26 AM
You want 80.000 dead to be disturbed for your conspiracy theory. That's low...
Now I know why you keep accusing me of twisting your words, because you do it yourself and you're projecting that onto me. That's not what I said and you know it. I said I was curious to see what would happen, I never said it would or even should happen. :smack
jfrog
05-17-2020, 12:05 PM
Now I know why you keep accusing me of twisting your words, because you do it yourself and you're projecting that onto me. That's not what I said and you know it. I said I was curious to see what would happen, I never said it would or even should happen. :smack
so why speculate about something based on something you don't want to see happen?
james34
05-17-2020, 12:34 PM
No, because you have the courts to shoot down any unfounded claims.
You mean courts of public opinion or court of law, in which case I would ask why you continue to put trust in a broken system.? If you mean public opinion I would agree, and I say a large part of this pandemic is a hoax.
That's generally true in any circumstance. Knowledge in any field is highly specialized. Regular public Joe doesn't have a clue how to properly defend against terrorists, pandemics, espionage, foreign militaries... heck he couldn't even clean up an oil spill if he wanted to.
Seems you are speaking from experience. Gotta be careful assuming everyone else is incapable just because you think that of yourself.
Would you come to my church if I condoned same gender marriage, if I funded abortions, if I removed prayer from public venues, if I through courts allowed the removal of crosses from public property, had transgenders in libraries reading to children, if I blessed Islam but condemned Christianity, legalized gambling, marijuana, left internet porn accessible to children with no safegaurd,, purposely expose own people to harmful bacteria, allow large corporations to poison the public and nature with their products and hide those harmful results from the people, allow political figures to compromise themselves by taking bribr money from other countries,...........Tell me again why you trust your government or their appointed medical experts.
Weird rant. No idea where you were going with all that. Would you put trust in something with all the problems above? If no then you have a bias that allows your news source to be dishonest and still be trusted. If yes well maybe your standards are really low?
Nevertheless I've seen others post good info that you seem to scoff at , you seem to be debating your preferred narrative rather than weighing out information, typically this is a symptom of drinking the Kool aid wherin is excess.
james34
05-17-2020, 12:42 PM
so why speculate about something based on something you don't want to see happen?
Is this speculation that you wouldnt want to see happen?
(Jfrog Special)
You are making a major unfounded assumption - that the spread of covid-19 would have been the same without the lockdowns and major social distancing we have seen. I think we would have seen significantly higher numbers everywhere (but that can't be proven).
However, that's why I say we locked down most of the country way to early. People needed to see the real toll locally to have a lasting appreciation for many of the measures being implemented and advocated for. And possibly in the best case - we would have found that in some communities relatively few measures would have been sufficient to keep the hospitals from getting overwhelmed and vulnerable people from dying....
You would be willing to see more people dead just so we could know how bad you think(speculate) it would have been. This is low and cold.
Jito463
05-17-2020, 02:37 PM
Is this speculation that you wouldnt want to see happen?
(Jfrog Special)
You are making a major unfounded assumption - that the spread of covid-19 would have been the same without the lockdowns and major social distancing we have seen. I think we would have seen significantly higher numbers everywhere (but that can't be proven).
However, that's why I say we locked down most of the country way to early. People needed to see the real toll locally to have a lasting appreciation for many of the measures being implemented and advocated for. And possibly in the best case - we would have found that in some communities relatively few measures would have been sufficient to keep the hospitals from getting overwhelmed and vulnerable people from dying....
You would be willing to see more people dead just so we could know how bad you think(speculate) it would have been. This is low and cold.
:toofunny
Tithesmeister
05-17-2020, 03:49 PM
https://www.texmed.org/Template.aspx?id=48701
Sometimes numbers give us a better perspective than we would have otherwise. In the state of Texas there were 11,000 deaths attributed to flu, (read the article) in 2017-18. According to the last check I made they have had fewer than 1,400 with Coronavirus so far.
Now to lend perspective, 2017-18 was the worst year on record for flu deaths in Texas. Even so there have been about nine times as many deaths from flu then, as there are due to Coronavirus so far. Yet we didn’t shut down Texas over the flu then but we did now?
Please understand, I’m not trying to fall on either side of the debate. I’m just trying to apply data, that admittedly may be faulty. Hopefully the source will be equally inflated, or not, since the source for both is the government. It seems that we blew it, at least to me.
Something that doesn’t make sense to me: Our worst infection rates appear to be nursing homes and prisons. Yet these are institutions that seem to be models of quarantine. So, in the case of prisons, we have these populations who are forced into involuntary quarantine, at least to some degree. BUT we release prisoners. Why? To protect them from getting infected. Is there something I’m not understanding here?
I admit to having faith that the government is capable of really getting things wrong. But we’re jailing preachers, and releasing prisoners convicted of sexual assault. Isn’t this backwards?
I believe we are missing the big picture somehow. But we are afraid to admit we got it wrong. I believe we missed big time. I base that opinion on the government’s own data, flawed though it may be. I said it before. The cure is worse than the disease.
Esaias
05-17-2020, 04:31 PM
Lockdowns do not work. NYC most corona deaths occurred at home in a lockdown. Meanwhile in Sweden?
Exactly.
But over half the entire US population is dumb as a box of rocks, incapable of any independent thought. Literally non player characters run by a not-so-smart AI system through media programming.
Notice: if the government says millions will die unless you all surrender your freedoms and submit to a total Orwellian tyranny, most go "Yup, it's for our good." But if government says "Lockdowns and quarantining the healthy do not work, but make it worse" those same stooges say "Tin foil! Conspiracy theories!"
They rely on the CDC when they say everyone's dying, but when the CDC says 80% of test results are false, they exclude that from their little brainlets.
Why?
NPCs, that's why.
jfrog
05-17-2020, 06:58 PM
Is this speculation that you wouldnt want to see happen?
(Jfrog Special)
You are making a major unfounded assumption - that the spread of covid-19 would have been the same without the lockdowns and major social distancing we have seen. I think we would have seen significantly higher numbers everywhere (but that can't be proven).
However, that's why I say we locked down most of the country way to early. People needed to see the real toll locally to have a lasting appreciation for many of the measures being implemented and advocated for. And possibly in the best case - we would have found that in some communities relatively few measures would have been sufficient to keep the hospitals from getting overwhelmed and vulnerable people from dying....
You would be willing to see more people dead just so we could know how bad you think(speculate) it would have been. This is low and cold.
That’s a very naive take.
If you recall the purpose of the lockdown wasn’t to get people from getting sick and dying. It was to keep people from getting sick so fast that the hospitals would get overwhelmed.
No where did I advocate for that happening. Instead the point was that the lockdowns occurred to early because what’s happening now was always bound to happen and delaying them wouldn’t have caused any more death overall.
jfrog
05-17-2020, 06:59 PM
https://www.texmed.org/Template.aspx?id=48701
Sometimes numbers give us a better perspective than we would have otherwise. In the state of Texas there were 11,000 deaths attributed to flu, (read the article) in 2017-18. According to the last check I made they have had fewer than 1,400 with Coronavirus so far.
Now to lend perspective, 2017-18 was the worst year on record for flu deaths in Texas. Even so there have been about nine times as many deaths from flu then, as there are due to Coronavirus so far. Yet we didn’t shut down Texas over the flu then but we did now?
Please understand, I’m not trying to fall on either side of the debate. I’m just trying to apply data, that admittedly may be faulty. Hopefully the source will be equally inflated, or not, since the source for both is the government. It seems that we blew it, at least to me.
Something that doesn’t make sense to me: Our worst infection rates appear to be nursing homes and prisons. Yet these are institutions that seem to be models of quarantine. So, in the case of prisons, we have these populations who are forced into involuntary quarantine, at least to some degree. BUT we release prisoners. Why? To protect them from getting infected. Is there something I’m not understanding here?
I admit to having faith that the government is capable of really getting things wrong. But we’re jailing preachers, and releasing prisoners convicted of sexual assault. Isn’t this backwards?
I believe we are missing the big picture somehow. But we are afraid to admit we got it wrong. I believe we missed big time. I base that opinion on the government’s own data, flawed though it may be. I said it before. The cure is worse than the disease.
But the logical problem is - you don’t know what the numbers would have looked like without the lockdowns.
jfrog
05-17-2020, 07:49 PM
Lockdowns do not work. NYC most corona deaths occurred at home in a lockdown.
Logically how is that proof or even evidence that a lockdown didn't work?
Tithesmeister
05-17-2020, 09:23 PM
But the logical problem is - you don’t know what the numbers would have looked like without the lockdowns.
This is absolutely true. Which is why your decisions are only as good as your information.
It is a sword that cuts both ways. I was consistent in that I used the same source of information for both the flu and the Coronavirus. At this point it seems unlikely that the death toll in Texas will exceed 11,000, as it did in Texas in the report I referenced. Today it stands at less than 1,400. It will rise, no doubt. But it probably won’t reach eleven thousand.
So we’ll never know if it would have been significantly worse without lockdowns. On the other hand we won’t know if the death toll would be significantly lower either. Do we?
Of course there’s this. The state of Colorado just reduced their Coronavirus death count. Hmmm.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/colorado-lowers-coronavirus-death-count
And, remember when there was talk that the cases would spike when states came out of quarantine?
https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news/articles/2020-05-17/no-spike-in-coronavirus-in-places-reopening-us-health-secretary-says
Some data would indicate that locking down actually made the virus worse. It almost certainly is not as bad as the flu sometimes is.
Jito463
05-17-2020, 09:28 PM
Logically how is that proof or even evidence that a lockdown didn't work?
What's your proof that a lockdown did work, or was even necessary to begin with? You claimed earlier that the hospitals in NYC were overrun, how do you know this? This article from March - which supports the claim that the lockdown was needed - admits that the numbers were never released about hospital capacity.
https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-coronavirus-overflow-hospitals-nurses-triage-20200326-7vojtntvkfecxiggq5mwgorhbm-story.html
Details on how close to capacity hospitals are running have been scarce. The city has not released those numbers for its public hospitals and private hospitals have also kept them close.
They go on to speculate, but they don't actually know. Another article (from the same time period) reports that a personal inspection did not reveal overburdened hospitals:
https://townhall.com/columnists/toddstarnes/2020/03/27/no-new-york-city-has-not-been-turned-into-an-apocalyptic-war-zone-n2565843
I personally visited two hospitals in Brooklyn and did not seen any unusual traffic. Nor did I see hospitals that were overrun by patients seeking treatment.
------------------
The head of surgery at New York Presbyterian told NBC News New York that while the number of patients on ventilators has more than doubled, they still have the necessary resources to deal with the issue.
-------------------
There have also been some photos of New York City emergency rooms filled with beds positioned in hallways. But that is typical for city hospitals on any given day. I know from first-hand experience.
So was there an increase? Sure. Did it overburden the system and require the lockdown to occur? Nope.
I get that the politicians who did this were simply trying to cover their own backsides, but that doesn't make it right.
jfrog
05-17-2020, 10:09 PM
What's your proof that a lockdown did work, or was even necessary to begin with? You claimed earlier that the hospitals in NYC were overrun, how do you know this? This article from March - which supports the claim that the lockdown was needed - admits that the numbers were never released about hospital capacity.
NYC was trending terrible and turned around a couple of weeks after the lockdowns. It's not rocket science.
https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-coronavirus-overflow-hospitals-nurses-triage-20200326-7vojtntvkfecxiggq5mwgorhbm-story.html
Multiple articles throughout march and April were detailing hospitals in NYC struggling to keep up with demand - I doubt all were.
They go on to speculate, but they don't actually know. Another article (from the same time period) reports that a personal inspection did not reveal overburdened hospitals:
https://townhall.com/columnists/toddstarnes/2020/03/27/no-new-york-city-has-not-been-turned-into-an-apocalyptic-war-zone-n2565843
Do you expect that every hospital would be overwhelmed before they took action. Not really what I would expect...
So was there an increase? Sure. Did it overburden the system and require the lockdown to occur? Nope.
I get that the politicians who did this were simply trying to cover their own backsides, but that doesn't make it right.
They were trending exponentially and doubling very quickly. I cannot emphasize enough how important that fact is. That means you could go from starting to be burdened to being overburdened in a very short period of time. That's something most don't seem to grasp. It's not just where you are at now - but where the trend is going as well.
If you don't believe me on the exponential growth go pull their case numbers and death numbers throughout middle of February and March.
jfrog
05-17-2020, 10:14 PM
Now in good news:
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/three-weeks-after-re-opening-coronavirus-cases-deaths-georgia-contiue
It appears Georgia is not going to have a rebound despite lifting most lockdown measures. I imagine they are still a lot of masks and social distancing though. If those behaviors are relaxed too much it's possible Georgia could see an increase again, but if they do we know that all it takes to stop it in GA is masks and social distancing and not a full on lockdown. Neat how that works isn't it ;)
jfrog
05-17-2020, 10:31 PM
This is absolutely true. Which is why your decisions are only as good as your information.
Totally agree. Which is why I keep going back to NYC and Italy. Both of those places had exponentially growing cases and deaths until they implemented lockdowns. The information we had at that time was that this thing spreads really fast and lockdowns stop it.
The two biggest issues I find are:
1. Believing every place will be like Italy and NYC
2. Other states, cities, counties etc had opportunities to attempt to slow the virus spread without an all out lockdown because hospitals weren't anywhere near being burdened by covid-19 yet. Instead they went straight to lockdowns.
Those are my issues with how this was handled (other than some of the nursing home issues - which also is part of the reason NY deaths are so high compared to the rest of the country).
What we are starting to find now with the early opening states like Georgia and Colorado is that masks and social distancing is enough and possibly even less social distancing and less masks may be acceptable as well. I think those things will be tested before long. The nice thing is that we know that at a minimum a lockdown in Georgia or Colorado isn't necessary to stop this.
It is a sword that cuts both ways. I was consistent in that I used the same source of information for both the flu and the Coronavirus. At this point it seems unlikely that the death toll in Texas will exceed 11,000, as it did in Texas in the report I referenced. Today it stands at less than 1,400. It will rise, no doubt. But it probably won’t reach eleven thousand.
FLU deaths are estimations and not actually lab confirmed case counts though right? FLU is also not something that grows exponentially as covid has shown it's capable of in certain places like Italy and NYC.
And then perhaps most importantly, it's hard to compare covid-19 lockdown numbers with flu business as usual numbers. For these reasons I think the flu comparison at this stage is meaningless.
So we’ll never know if it would have been significantly worse without lockdowns. On the other hand we won’t know if the death toll would be significantly lower either. Do we?
I think we have evidence in NYC that the lockdown worked. Not really anywhere else in the U.S. though. We will find out in the next year or so. Eventually a state somewhere is going to try to go back to normal - involves both peoples behavior and business as usual policies by the state. When that happens we will learn pretty quickly if any measures were necessary. IMO they likely were.
Of course there’s this. The state of Colorado just reduced their Coronavirus death count. Hmmm.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/colorado-lowers-coronavirus-death-count
And, remember when there was talk that the cases would spike when states came out of quarantine?
https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news/articles/2020-05-17/no-spike-in-coronavirus-in-places-reopening-us-health-secretary-says
Sure, but the reopening everyone was imagining wasn't the mask and social distancing reopening. That's important to note. It's the go back to full normal mode reopening - and nothing has proven there won't be a spike when that occurs yet. On the bright side - we know that for many places masks and social distancing is enough to weather the virus in the event there is a future spike
Some data would indicate that locking down actually made the virus worse. It almost certainly is not as bad as the flu sometimes is.
I've not seen anything indicating that locking down made it worse. I've also not seen anything that it's not worse than the flu. Honestly it's almost impossible to compare with flu at this point because we have never taken these measures against the flu and so we are hopelessly trying to compare apples to oranges in absence of that.
Esaias
05-18-2020, 05:40 AM
Logically how is that proof or even evidence that a lockdown didn't work?
You're kidding, right?
Let's see... Let's put everybody on lockdown to slow the spread. Oh, look, world's highest spread, highest death toll, most deaths occur at home with people locked down.
Meanwhile Sweden foregoes the lockdown, low spread, low death toll.
Now add to that the following:
Quarantines are always for the sick, not the healthy - until now when everyone decides to go Forrest Gump.
Staying home for extended periods reduces immunity due to lack of exposure to the general environment.
Wearing masks all the time reduces oxygen uptake and reduces immunity due to constant breathing of your own waste products/effluvia.
Social distancing a complete medical fantasy with no basis in real science whatsoever.
Everything based on "number of cases" which are determined by tests with up to 80% false positive rates.
Numerous non corona related deaths being coded as COVID19 (such codings pay better).
Science of immunology turned upside down (antibodies used to mean you were exposed and have immunity, now they mean you are "infected").
We haven't even gotten into the difference between terrain theory and germ theory, or the fact that none of the "tests" have themselves been validated scientifically, that no infectious virus has EVER been properly isolated much less demonstrated to cause illness, that the ENTIRE scenario we have witnessed since November of last year is unfolding EXACTLY as laid out by the Gates Foindation's Event201 drill held in WUHAN CHINA shortly prior to the alleged outbreak, that Fauci is on the payroll of the Gates Foundation, that the WHO has an abysmal track record and is currently headed by a war criminal who was a ranking member of a designated foreign terrorist organization, that the whole "pandemic" is literally no worse than a seasonal flu, that Italy overstated COVID19 deaths by something like 80 some odd percent, that the media and government have been caught IN THE ACT of blatant lying and misrepresenting conditions at various hospitals including using the same photos for supposed crisis scenes at different hospitals and reporting the same kid as having died FOUR TIMES under 4 different names in 3 different countries from 3 different causes (including dying TWICE from coronavirus), and the fact that ventilators - while maximally profitable - are the number one immediate cause of death in treated corona patients....
And on and on it goes.
jfrog
05-18-2020, 11:17 AM
Cutting away all the stuff not actually related to the question...
You're kidding, right?
Let's see... Let's put everybody on lockdown to slow the spread. Oh, look, world's highest spread, highest death toll, most deaths occur at home with people locked down.
Bad logic again - having a high spread, high death toll and most deaths occuring at home isn't evidence that a lockdown failed - it's unrelated to the success or failure of it.
A lockdown is successful if upon implantation or shortly after the growth pattern of cases and deaths starts changing. In NYC this is exactly what happened.
Meanwhile Sweden foregoes the lockdown, low spread, low death toll.
Yes, but contrary to popular belief - Sweden still socially distanced and had broad buy in of their citizens to voluntarily do so. So are their low numbers because of the very strategies you oppose?
Now add to that the following:
Quarantines are always for the sick, not the healthy - until now when everyone decides to go Forrest Gump.
We know how disease is spread. If you can isolate the sick you isolate the sick. The problem is that we know coronavirus is spread by asymptomatic people - which makes isolating the sick very difficult. So then if you can't isolate the sick because you can't detect them the next logically course of action is to have everyone isolate. It's not some complicated. It's simple and logically sound.
Staying home for extended periods reduces immunity due to lack of exposure to the general environment.
The "general environment" never provided anyone immunity. We know how disease spreads and you must come into contact with it before you get immunity to it.
Wearing masks all the time reduces oxygen uptake and reduces immunity due to constant breathing of your own waste products/effluvia.
Possibly a true point. I would love to read more. But it seems like you are losing sight of the point you made. That is, even if this is true (and it probably is) it's not going to have any bearing on getting the coronavirus because you would have to already have it no?
Social distancing a complete medical fantasy with no basis in real science whatsoever.
You mean other than the science of how disease spreads. It's based on the same science as quarantining the sick. It's really not controversial that doing so will be effective other than to you tinfoil hat people.
Everything based on "number of cases" which are determined by tests with up to 80% false positive rates.
I don't believe that's true, but let's say it is, then at best such flawed tests would show we don't really know what's happening - which would imply that you have no proof that a lockdown didn't work.
jfrog
05-18-2020, 11:36 AM
These points were not related to the question you were answering at all.
Numerous non corona related deaths being coded as COVID19 (such codings pay better).
That doesn't mean such numbers are meaningfully inflated.
Science of immunology turned upside down (antibodies used to mean you were exposed and have immunity, now they mean you are "infected").
This I fully agree with. That's one of the most perplexing things I've noted through this whole ordeal. How the MSM through some experts played down any mention of immunity via antibodies as "we don't know yet". The logical thought would be - we know typically antibodies imply immunity for some time period and cite the ranges and give the typical numbers - and then caveat that with the point that more research is needed in the case of covid-19 to confirm these details and narrow down the immunity timeframes.
I take it to mean the MSM were being overly manipulative instead of just delivering us the facts. IMO probably thought they were doing a greater good with this manipulation by keeping people from rushing out to get the virus so they might be immune.
Jito463
05-19-2020, 11:31 AM
Is it possible they're under reporting the deaths? :nah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdxfiVyR_jc
jfrog
05-19-2020, 08:05 PM
Is it possible they're under reporting the deaths? :nah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdxfiVyR_jc
I don't think anyone here has denied that as a possibility.
Did you have fun knocking down your strawman?
Jito463
05-19-2020, 10:57 PM
I don't think anyone here has denied that as a possibility.
Did you have fun knocking down your strawman?
Seems I struck a nerve. I didn't even address it to you, nor did I post it in your thread. Methinks you doth protest too much.
jfrog
05-19-2020, 11:55 PM
Seems I struck a nerve. I didn't even address it to you, nor did I post it in your thread. Methinks you doth protest too much.
There's what 4-5 of us posting on this forum. It's not rocket science to figure out who it was directed at.
Jito463
05-20-2020, 07:42 AM
There's what 4-5 of us posting on this forum. It's not rocket science to figure out who it was directed at.
:dogpat
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