Church services essential

[Amanah]

Florida stay at home order lists church services as essential

https://www.wftv.com/news/local/gov-desantis-issue-stay-at-home-order-florida/NMZ4VK7O6FHAVIAEZSFJWVWGK4/?fbclid=IwAR11trnL2LzsHLYpX8goOg_znTh6ht1sF5ckFZqM K2cNAlZsRf1Z0aFhk0w

[Amanah]

Texas does also

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/03/31/greg-abbott-texas-executive-order-closures/

[Ron]

I read it to mean, "religious or Church services" are allowed to be exempt from the stay at home order, and at least in Florida, stay to under 10.
We have closed our Church because of a lot of elderly, and underlying health disorders if which I am one of them.
I had open heart surgery 5 years ago, and a couple of years ago, I developed an irregular heartbeat. It was contained with Ameoderone.
Well after a few years of taking Ameoderone, late last December I was sick with what turned out to be hyperthyroidism. I was getting ready for Church and was weak and shaking and drove myself to the hospital for an admission that lasted 9 days. After blood tests over the past three months, the Ameoderone is still in my system nececestating me taking a huge amount of drugs, (I feel like a drug addict) to keep my body somewhat balanced. My Endocrinologist told me to self isolate in early March, my GZp said the same thing, my family and Church said the same thing.
I am in a high risk group that would put me in second place behind seniors over 70.
So, we have Church at home. BOTT, Bri Jeff Arnold band my favorite, Bro Chester Wright.
God is good. He could come back in 2020. Heaven is looking better and better, but what did the Apostle Paul say? For me to live is Christ, bit to die gain!
I told my family, keep my headstone simple and don't throw money in the ground. On the headstone have this inscription from Rev Cleveland's song.
JESUS IS THE BEST THING THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED TO ME!������

[Scott Pitta]

Churches that insist on meeting during a pandemic send a clear message to the community: we don't care if you live or die.

[Amanah]

Bro Ron - Sebastian Florida where I reside is a retirement community. Since those over 65 and those with health issues are advised to stay home, it would not make sense for us to have services anyway as maybe 5 people would be able to attend.

[james34]

Churches that insist on meeting during a pandemic send a clear message to the community: we don't care if you live or die.
I was thinking the same for any place where there are gatherings of ...let's say 10 or more, and just for fun let's pick a specific one ....how about Krogers.

[james34]

How long should church houses remain closed, if the pandemic lasts a year?
I lean toward home churches being the will of God ,due to the amount of programming and religion in the more public church house gatherings.
But I see an overreaching government, whose overreach began before the Coronavirus, continuing during this epidemic. Some point to sports events, bars and other businesses that are closed as proof there is no bias against religion. But these other events dont have the history of government encroachment upon their normal operation, the way that churches have. So my opinion is if someone hit you several times and then swings in your direction again, it would be illogical to think they were not going to hit you. Doesnt really matter if they hit 10 more , not to mention it is their first time being hit. You know the history....I wouldn't trust them. The government especially in recent times has set itself in opposition to people of faith.

[Amanah]

I'd like to see us break out into house churches. With so many unemployed and struggling wouldn't it make sense to cut the expense of owning a building and pool resources to feed and help those who are unemployed.

This is easy for me to consider since my assembly is renting

[consapente89]

Churches that insist on meeting during a pandemic send a clear message to the community: we don't care if you live or die.

That's ridiculous. Every church I know that is still having services have encouraged those that are at risk to stay home if they don't feel it would be wise to attend.

[consapente89]

I'd like to see us break out into house churches. With so many unemployed and struggling wouldn't it make sense to cut the expense of owning a building and pool resources to feed and help those who are unemployed.

This is easy for me to consider since my assembly is renting

Would not be practical for those assemblies that already own buildings or property.

[Birddog]

Churches that insist on meeting during a pandemic send a clear message to the community: we don't care if you live or die.

Or maybe the people that show up are saying that they live in faith not fear.

But that is hard for the faithless to understand.

[consapente89]

Or maybe the people that show up are saying that they live in faith not fear.

But that is hard for the faithless to understand.

Thank you!

[MawMaw]

Florida stay at home order lists church services as essential

https://www.wftv.com/news/local/gov-desantis-issue-stay-at-home-order-florida/NMZ4VK7O6FHAVIAEZSFJWVWGK4/?fbclid=IwAR11trnL2LzsHLYpX8goOg_znTh6ht1sF5ckFZqM K2cNAlZsRf1Z0aFhk0w

Texas does also

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/03/31/greg-abbott-texas-executive-order-closures/

as does Mississippi

https://www.wlox.com/2020/03/25/list-all-businesses-operations-that-are-considered-essential-mississippi/

[n david]

Or maybe the people that show up are saying that they live in faith not fear.

But that is hard for the faithless to understand.
You should walk around town, touching every handrail and doorknob you can. Shake everyone's hands and hug everyone you come near. Then grab a burger and fries, eat them and lick your fingers to get that extra sauce that dripped on them.

Walk your talk, boy! Faith without fear!

[consapente89]

You should walk around town, touching every handrail and doorknob you can. Shake everyone's hands and hug everyone you come near. Then grab a burger and fries, eat them and lick your fingers to get that extra sauce that dripped on them.

Walk your talk, boy! Faith without fear!

Sometimes I think you know better than you post.

[diakonos]

Or maybe the people that show up are saying that they live in faith not fear.

But that is hard for the faithless to understand.

:thumbsup

[Tithesmeister]

Or maybe the people that show up are saying that they live in faith not fear.

But that is hard for the faithless to understand.

So Birddog. Since I am one of those people that are not showing up, could you help me out with what it is that I’m afraid of?

I don’t feel no ways afraid. Is it something I’m missing?

Is it possible that you are afraid?

Maybe that you can’t maintain your faith without the big building?

It’s a real question.

[n david]

Sometimes I think you know better than you post.
Birddog is smearing people, questioning our faith and calling us faithless because we're not have services with the whole congregation in one building.
It's ridiculous.

[Freeindeed]

Or maybe the people that show up are saying that they live in faith not fear.

But that is hard for the faithless to understand.

:yourock

[consapente89]

Birddog is smearing people, questioning our faith and calling us faithless because we're not have services with the whole congregation in one building.
It's ridiculous.

I didn’t take it that way. He was responding to Scott’s post...that churches which choose to assemble are unconcerned about their saints. The way I read birddog’s post was as a defense of those who are assembling in faith, against stupid accusations from faithless people who have nothing better to do than castigate their brethren for trusting God. Not that those who are not assembling are not trusting God. Why does this have to be a battle?! Why can’t each Pastor prayerfully consider what is best for the flock in his charge without being labeled a cult leader?! I know some churches of great faith that are not gathering as usual, and some that are. Scott made a stupid and slanderous post about good men.

[Scott Pitta]

Church pastors need to minimize risk. It is done by removing ice from church walkways and parking lots in the winter months. They do so by maintaining fire extinguishers and by having building exits clear of clutter. They do so by running background checks on all volunteers. They do so by maintaining church vehicles in safe and reliable working order.

Churches minimize risk by not meeting during pandemics.

To do otherwise is to invite unnecessary risk. In the case of covid-19, it invites needless death to members of the congregation and to the wider community.

[n david]

I didn’t take it that way. He was responding to Scott’s post...that churches which choose to assemble are unconcerned about their saints. The way I read birddog’s post was as a defense of those who are assembling in faith, against stupid accusations from faithless people who have nothing better to do than castigate their brethren for trusting God. Not that those who are not assembling are not trusting God. Why does this have to be a battle?! Why can’t each Pastor prayerfully consider what is best for the flock in his charge without being labeled a cult leader?! I know some churches of great faith that are not gathering as usual, and some that are. Scott made a stupid and slanderous post about good men.
In the case of Spell, he was quite clear today in that they believe they are putting their lives at risk for the gospel and that they don’t care about the dangers of the disease. He named disciples who were martyrs and said Paul RAN to the chopping block to be beheaded so he could be with Jesus. Spell is not concerned about the disease or death for him or his congregants. Watch the press conference he gave today. He doesn’t care because “to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.”

[Ron]

Or maybe the people that show up are saying that they live in faith not fear.

But that is hard for the faithless to understand.

I have faith that God protects me. That being said, I don't go down to skid row where the junkies and crackheads live and walk alone in the alleys flashing money from my wallet at 3 in the morning.

Wisdom is the principal thing Proverbs states and with all thy getting get understanding.
I know corrupt powerful people are exploiting this situation, I know decisions are being made that Rutgers the NWO.

Ultimately, you either believe God's word or we don't.
Romans 8:28 should be our standing point.

[Birddog]

You should walk around town, touching every handrail and doorknob you can. Shake everyone's hands and hug everyone you come near. Then grab a burger and fries, eat them and lick your fingers to get that extra sauce that dripped on them.

Walk your talk, boy! Faith without fear!

LOL

I am not afraid my friend, I am not wearing gloves when I am going out, I will greet everyone who wants to. I wash my hands frequently but I did that also before. I never lick my fingers, never had.

The Boy part, I am to the age that I almost will pay 5 dollars to hear that. You might have meant it for evil but I will take it for good, sonny. (little s)

Grey haired grandfather who has pastored for decades, grandkids and all. Don't boy me if you don't know me.

I do have faith and show it. I am going to have church at our building until they tell us that our county is closed down to that, then we go to home church.

Faith not fear sonny, faith not fear! I live what I preach friend, do you?

I have not asked anyone in this congregation to do anything that they don't want to do, they show up because they want to. :thumbsup

[Birddog]

So Birddog. Since I am one of those people that are not showing up, could you help me out with what it is that I’m afraid of?

I don’t feel no ways afraid. Is it something I’m missing?

Is it possible that you are afraid?

Maybe that you can’t maintain your faith without the big building?

It’s a real question.

Look at the post that I was responding to, that is not dealing with you. If you feel it is then if the shoe fits wear it. I meant no harm to you as I don't know you.

If you know me then you know that I am speaking what I believe also. I believe in the healer and I preach it hard and strong. I believe in deliverance from demonic oppression and I preach it strong. I am a faith preacher and don't apologize for that.

As far as maintaining my faith without a big building? We don't have a big building. We have filled it up and split it on purpose to plant new works. We are currently prepared to go to home services which will keep me going hard. Does that answer your question?

[diakonos]

I expect you to go to the building against orders.

[Tithesmeister]

:thumbsupLook at the post that I was responding to, that is not dealing with you. If you feel it is then if the shoe fits wear it. I meant no harm to you as I don't know you.

If you know me then you know that I am speaking what I believe also. I believe in the healer and I preach it hard and strong. I believe in deliverance from demonic oppression and I preach it strong. I am a faith preacher and don't apologize for that.

As far as maintaining my faith without a big building? We don't have a big building. We have filled it up and split it on purpose to plant new works. We are currently prepared to go to home services which will keep me going hard. Does that answer your question?:thumbsup

I like your answer.

[Nicodemus1968]

:thumbsup:thumbsup

I like your answer.

Bird dog never ceases to amaze.

[Esaias]

You should walk around town, touching every handrail and doorknob you can. Shake everyone's hands and hug everyone you come near. Then grab a burger and fries, eat them and lick your fingers to get that extra sauce that dripped on them.

Walk your talk, boy! Faith without fear!

Just think, if you did that, you might get a disease that kills 20000-50000 people EVERY SINGLE YEAR IN THE US ALONE, like... influenza...

[Esaias]

Church pastors need to minimize risk. It is done by removing ice from church walkways and parking lots in the winter months. They do so by maintaining fire extinguishers and by having building exits clear of clutter. They do so by running background checks on all volunteers. They do so by maintaining church vehicles in safe and reliable working order.

Churches minimize risk by not meeting during pandemics.

To do otherwise is to invite unnecessary risk. In the case of covid-19, it invites needless death to members of the congregation and to the wider community.

You still drinking that GOP-tainted water you been whining about?

[consapente89]

Bird dog never ceases to amaze.

Is he someone that broke fellowship with you when you went preterist?

[diakonos]

Is he someone that broke fellowship with you when you went preterist?

ROFLOL :heeheehee

[TJJJ]

ROFLOL :heeheehee

That birddog is kinda a jerk. You know that.

[Birddog]

That birddog is kinda a jerk. You know that.

And what did I do to irritate you?

Can't a guy have an opinion, or even two or three?

All different?

[diakonos]

And what did I do to irritate you?

Can't a guy have an opinion, or even two or three?

All different?

:lol

[Amanah]

Vice President Mike Pence urged Americans to avoid church services of more than 10 people yesterday, April 1.

Pence tells Nightline co-anchor Byron Pitts that he, his wife and President Donald Trump have been "enjoying worship services online," according to ABC.

"We're so grateful to churches and synagogues and places of worship around America that have heeded the president's coronavirus guidelines for America," he said, referring to the federal guidelines for social distancing. "We really believe this is a time when people should avoid gatherings of more than 10 people. And we continue to urge churches around America to heed to that."

Pence's comments come shortly after a Florida megachurch pastor was arrested Monday for holding large church services during a stay-at-home order. Rodney Howard-Browne, pastor of The River at Tampa Bay, faces two misdemeanor charges of unlawful assembly and violation of public health emergency rules, according to the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office.

Howard-Browne says he was arrested for exercising his First Amendment rights and that he's praying for Sheriff Chad Chronister, who arrested him. Liberty Counsel founder Mat Staver is representing Howard-Browne and says his church followed the Hillsborough County guidelines for social distancing during the services.

Pence, who is leading the White House's coronavirus task force, also said his team is working closely with governors to make sure they have the resources and information they need to make the best decisions for their states.

"We believe we're in a much better place by June the 1st," Pence said. "If every American will put these guidelines into practice, if we all continue to do our part, we really do believe that by Memorial Day weekend or by early summer ... we can be through the hardest part of this."

https://www.charismanews.com/us/80591-mike-pence-urges-americans-not-to-attend-church-services-of-more-than-10-people

[Amanah]

There is a very interesting podcast by Matt Staver (attorney) embedded in the above linked article.

[Nicodemus1968]

Is he someone that broke fellowship with you when you went preterist?

#1
I’m not a preterist.

#2
Bird dog is one of those guys that are of a different breed we’ll just say.

[Tithesmeister]

#1
I’m not a preterist.

#2
Bird dog is one of those guys that are of a different breed we’ll just say.

Is he a different breed from you?

Or, are you a different breed from him?

[Nicodemus1968]

Is he a different breed from you?

Or, are you a different breed from him?

I’ll just say, he’s taught me a lot.

[TGBTG]

#1
I’m not a preterist.

#2
Bird dog is one of those guys that are of a different breed we’ll just say.

Based on what you’ve posted on this forum, I’d say:

1. You are a preterist.
2. You are NOT a cessationist.

Fixed it for ya...you’re welcome :thumbsup

[consapente89]

#1
I’m not a preterist.

#2
Bird dog is one of those guys that are of a different breed we’ll just say.

Preterism, a Christian eschatological view, interprets some (partial preterism) or all (full preterism) prophecies of the Bible as events which have already happened. This school of thought interprets the Book of Daniel as referring to events that happened from the 7th century BC until the first century AD, while seeing the prophecies of Revelation as events that happened in the first century AD. Preterism holds that Ancient Israel finds its continuation or fulfillment in the Christian church at the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preterism

So this is not what you believe? What Bible prophesies are still future?

Is Birddog a futurist?

[Nicodemus1968]

Preterism, a Christian eschatological view, interprets some (partial preterism) or all (full preterism) prophecies of the Bible as events which have already happened. This school of thought interprets the Book of Daniel as referring to events that happened from the 7th century BC until the first century AD, while seeing the prophecies of Revelation as events that happened in the first century AD. Preterism holds that Ancient Israel finds its continuation or fulfillment in the Christian church at the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preterism

So this is not what you believe? What Bible prophesies are still future?

Is Birddog a futurist?

I respect you, I’m not trying to get into an argument with you.

Many preterists believe that all was fulfilled on AD70. Meaning there is not heaven and there is no hell, because of that they do not believe in the spirit realm. I firmly believe in the spirit realm, I believe in spirits and our warfare is done in the spirit realm. Maybe now they have a different name for those that believe that. There are a couple more reasons, to why I dont consider myself a preterist.

I do believe
that the judgement God stated that was going to fall on Jerusalem in his word has been fulfilled.
Their generation didnt pass until all was fulfilled.
Heaven and earth passed
Israel are not the chosen people of God
The church is the bride of Christ
John was in the spirit while he wrote Revelation
The Bible was written FOR us

I do not believe
There is a gap with the vision of Daniel
“shortly” means 2000 years+
The judgement of God was for us and this physical earth
The warnings were written to us
Peter, Paul, Jude, and John were wrong in their writings

[TGBTG]

I respect you, I’m not trying to get into an argument with you.

Many preterists believe that all was fulfilled on AD70. Meaning there is not heaven and there is no hell, because of that they do not believe in the spirit realm. I firmly believe in the spirit realm, I believe in spirits and our warfare is done in the spirit realm. Maybe now they have a different name for those that believe that. There are a couple more reasons, to why I dont consider myself a preterist.

I do believe
that the judgement God stated that was going to fall on Jerusalem in his word has been fulfilled.
Their generation didnt pass until all was fulfilled.
Heaven and earth passed
Israel are not the chosen people of God
The church is the bride of Christ
John was in the spirit while he wrote Revelation
The Bible was written FOR us

I do not believe
There is a gap with the vision of Daniel
“shortly” means 2000 years+
The judgement of God was for us and this physical earth
The warnings were written to us
Peter, Paul, Jude, and John were wrong in their writings

Haha...your beliefs line up exactly with preterism

[Amanah]

Preterists and futurists are fairly common.
Historicists are interestingly balanced, eliminating the torturing of scripture to introduced gaps that would never occur with the plain reading of scripture on one hand while still affirming the blessed hope of the resurrection on the other.

[consapente89]

I respect you, I’m not trying to get into an argument with you.

Many preterists believe that all was fulfilled on AD70. Meaning there is not heaven and there is no hell, because of that they do not believe in the spirit realm. I firmly believe in the spirit realm, I believe in spirits and our warfare is done in the spirit realm. Maybe now they have a different name for those that believe that. There are a couple more reasons, to why I dont consider myself a preterist.

I do believe
that the judgement God stated that was going to fall on Jerusalem in his word has been fulfilled.
Their generation didnt pass until all was fulfilled.
Heaven and earth passed
Israel are not the chosen people of God
The church is the bride of Christ
John was in the spirit while he wrote Revelation
The Bible was written FOR us

I do not believe
There is a gap with the vision of Daniel
“shortly” means 2000 years+
The judgement of God was for us and this physical earth
The warnings were written to us
Peter, Paul, Jude, and John were wrong in their writings

I agree with many of your points. Yet I absolutely believe in a future second advent and Millennial reign. What do you believe is future? Anything? Any kind of end or culmination of this thing? Or is this what eternity looks like?

[diakonos]

Based on what you’ve posted on this forum, I’d say:

1. You are a preterist.
2. You are NOT a cessationist.

Fixed it for ya...you’re welcome :thumbsup

You’re welcome

[Amanah]

There is a very interesting podcast by Matt Staver (attorney) embedded in the linked article.

Matt Staver is going to defend RHB. He is the attorney who defended Kim Davis.


https://www.charismanews.com/us/80591-mike-pence-urges-americans-not-to-attend-church-services-of-more-than-10-people

[Nicodemus1968]

I agree with many of your points. Yet I absolutely believe in a future second advent and Millennial reign. What do you believe is future? Anything? Any kind of end or culmination of this thing? Or is this what eternity looks like?


What do you believe is future?

I believe like Paul,

Ephesians 1:13-14
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, [14] Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Strongs Definition for Earnest
Of Hebrew origin [H6162]; a pledge that is part of the purchase money or property given in advance as security for the rest: - earnest.

I believe this life we have in Christ while were on this physical earth is our security for what is to come. I believe in Heaven or the eternal abode with God. With that said, I believe we reign as kings and priests right now while on this earth, I believe we have power over sin while on this earth, I believe we have authority over evil spirits right now. I dont believe we have to wait until were in that eternal abode to partake of some of the benefits we have in Christ. We can enjoy them right now, Praise God!

Peter said,

1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

If we cant live in a place with God while on this earth that shows us whats ahead then we above all men are most miserable.

1 Corinthians 15:19
If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

Look at this verse in another way, maybe you do already,

1 Corinthians 15:52-58
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. [53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. [54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. [55] O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? [56] The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. [57] But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. [58] Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

I want you to read these verses, and frankly this isn’t about future coming, no future coming, this is I believe the way we should be living.

When were we dead?
When did we go from corruptible to incorruptible?
When have we been raised?
When did we have power over DEATH, HELL, and the GRAVE???
When has Christ given us victory?

Now, before you cast me off like I’m a heretic, please understand I believe this life is not it, I believe I will be called home to my Jesus one day and I will leave this life and go to be with my husband. Yet, I’m living now, what i am going to live FULFILLED then.

Remember we need to be like Jesus, we preach the death, burial, and resurrection. And we correlate that with Acts 2:38. The Holy Ghost that was given to us, is our resurrection! Death, hell, and the grave have no authority over us, it was in the blink of an eye I started speaking in an unknown tongue and my life was changed.

Any kind of end or culmination of this thing?
I believe the end is when you breathe your last breath on this earth, you will be with the Lord. I’m not living for God because of some end time extravaganza, (not be factious) I live for him because he loved me enough to call me out of sin!

Or is this what eternity looks like?

Ill answer like this, I dont believe Hell is flames of fire. I dont believe Hell is a big lake where sinners are going to burn for all eternity. I believe what Revelation is talking about was Jerusalem. Thats my opinion, I could be wrong, I wont be there to find out. I believe Hell is a place where the presence of God will not dwell, and for the first time a sinner will know what it feels like not to have his presence available.

I believe Heaven is going to be something wonderful, words wont be able to explain it. We’re going to have no hindrances, were not going to have this flesh to contend with, our focus is going to be on him. So shall we ever be with the Lord.
A saint just passed, his Pastor and I have been friends for many years. He told me this, before he died he said, “Pastor, the chariots of fire, they are REAL” that’s what were reaching for!!!

[consapente89]

Preterists and futurists are fairly common.
Historicists are interestingly balanced, eliminating the torturing of scripture to introduced gaps that would never occur with the plain reading of scripture on one hand while still affirming the blessed hope of the resurrection on the other.

Including a futuristic view of the millennial reign?

[consapente89]

What do you believe is future?

I believe like Paul,

Ephesians 1:13-14
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, [14] Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Strongs Definition for Earnest
Of Hebrew origin [H6162]; a pledge that is part of the purchase money or property given in advance as security for the rest: - earnest.

I believe this life we have in Christ while were on this physical earth is our security for what is to come. I believe in Heaven or the eternal abode with God. With that said, I believe we reign as kings and priests right now while on this earth, I believe we have power over sin while on this earth, I believe we have authority over evil spirits right now. I dont believe we have to wait until were in that eternal abode to partake of some of the benefits we have in Christ. We can enjoy them right now, Praise God!

Peter said,

1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

If we cant live in a place with God while on this earth that shows us whats ahead then we above all men are most miserable.

1 Corinthians 15:19
If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

Look at this verse in another way, maybe you do already,

1 Corinthians 15:52-58
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. [53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. [54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. [55] O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? [56] The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. [57] But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. [58] Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

I want you to read these verses, and frankly this isn’t about future coming, no future coming, this is I believe the way we should be living.

When were we dead?
When did we go from corruptible to incorruptible?
When have we been raised?
When did we have power over DEATH, HELL, and the GRAVE???
When has Christ given us victory?

Now, before you cast me off like I’m a heretic, please understand I believe this life is not it, I believe I will be called home to my Jesus one day and I will leave this life and go to be with my husband. Yet, I’m living now, what i am going to live FULFILLED then.

Remember we need to be like Jesus, we preach the death, burial, and resurrection. And we correlate that with Acts 2:38. The Holy Ghost that was given to us, is our resurrection! Death, hell, and the grave have no authority over us, it was in the blink of an eye I started speaking in an unknown tongue and my life was changed.

Any kind of end or culmination of this thing?
I believe the end is when you breathe your last breath on this earth, you will be with the Lord. I’m not living for God because of some end time extravaganza, (not be factious) I live for him because he loved me enough to call me out of sin!

Or is this what eternity looks like?

Ill answer like this, I dont believe Hell is flames of fire. I dont believe Hell is a big lake where sinners are going to burn for all eternity. I believe what Revelation is talking about was Jerusalem. Thats my opinion, I could be wrong, I wont be there to find out. I believe Hell is a place where the presence of God will not dwell, and for the first time a sinner will know what it feels like not to have his presence available.

I believe Heaven is going to be something wonderful, words wont be able to explain it. We’re going to have no hindrances, were not going to have this flesh to contend with, our focus is going to be on him. So shall we ever be with the Lord.
A saint just passed, his Pastor and I have been friends for many years. He told me this, before he died he said, “Pastor, the chariots of fire, they are REAL” that’s what were reaching for!!!

Wow. So sin and iniquity will continue on the earth forever? The continuous cycle of being born and dying? When will the saints judge the world?

Revelation 21:1-5 (KJV) 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

This doesn’t sound like simply dying and going to heaven to be with Jesus. Brother, it’s not my intention to ridicule you, but while you are in the cockpit with God and Verbal Bean, try to see that God is not going to allow things to continue on this earth as they are! There is a change coming! There MUST be and end to sin. There MUST be a judgement.

[consapente89]

1 Corinthians 15:51 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Paul said we SHALL be changed. If he was referring to the new birth he would have said we have been changed. Sorry, but these verses are about the resurrection that is coming for the saints.

[Amanah]

Including a futuristic view of the millennial reign?

I lean towards amilllenialism

[consapente89]

I lean towards amilllenialism

To be frank, life is too hard for me to believe that we are in the millennium now. I wonder if historicism and premillennialism overlaps?

[Nicodemus1968]

1 Corinthians 15:51 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Paul said we SHALL be changed. If he was referring to the new birth he would have said we have been changed. Sorry, but these verses are about the resurrection that is coming for the saints.

Absolutely, I totally believe what your saying. I was saying we have an inheritance before we are with him. Are we fulfilling everything God has for us here in this earth. No, I just believe we have this treasure in earthen vessel. This is just a down payment, if you will to what is to come.

[Amanah]

To be frank, life is too hard for me to believe that we are in the millennium now. I wonder if historicism and premillennialism overlaps?

Esaias is historicism. Pre Mil

[Esaias]

To be frank, life is too hard for me to believe that we are in the millennium now. I wonder if historicism and premillennialism overlaps?

There are many historicists who are premillennialists. Myself being one. Some are postmillennialists, and some are amillennialists, though.

[Esaias]

Including a futuristic view of the millennial reign?

Yes, but check this thread out if you haven't already: Kingdom, Millennium, and the Reign of the Saints (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=53027). It gets into the Present Reign of Christ and His saints and provides a proper and balanced perspective of the both the Millennium and today. :thumbsup

[consapente89]

Yes, but check this thread out if you haven't already: Kingdom, Millennium, and the Reign of the Saints (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=53027). It gets into the Present Reign of Christ and His saints and provides a proper and balanced perspective of the both the Millennium and today. :thumbsup

Will do. Thanks.

[Esaias]

So are church services "essential"? Some states say yes, some say no, some say yes but limit how many can partake of those services at a time, etc.

But what does THE BIBLE say?

Hebrews 10:24-25 KJV
And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: [25] Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is ; but exhorting one another : and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Are we to consider one another? Are we to provoke one another to love and to good works? Then we are to continue to assemble together.

Two governments have issued directives on this. Man's government, and God's. Who has authority to decide? Man? Or God? Who do YOU listen to?

Who is YOUR god?

[Nicodemus1968]

Wow. So sin and iniquity will continue on the earth forever? The continuous cycle of being born and dying? When will the saints judge the world?

Revelation 21:1-5 (KJV) 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

This doesn’t sound like simply dying and going to heaven to be with Jesus. Brother, it’s not my intention to ridicule you, but while you are in the cockpit with God and Verbal Bean, try to see that God is not going to allow things to continue on this earth as they are! There is a change coming! There MUST be and end to sin. There MUST be a judgement.

Fair enough Brother. The good thing is, we shall see. Maybe you believe like other religions and we’re going to be given this earth as a place of paradise. All those sinners will be destroyed, no more sin! That’s fine, just don’t limit God on what he can do while your on this earth. If were weak now your weak when you die, if you have no victory over sin now then you’ll die in sin. If your not reigning with Christ now, you won’t reign in your earthly paradise. Appreciate you, Lord Bless