View Full Version : Virtual church
Monterrey
04-10-2020, 03:42 AM
So, it seems that approx. 92% of American Christians polled are going to have virtual church this weekend.
Got thinking of the word VIRTUAL.
(almost or nearly as described, but not completely or according to strict definition.)
In the computer world it is this.
not physically existing as such but made by software to appear to do so. See also virtual reality.
"a virtual computer"
carried out, accessed, or stored by means of a computer, especially over a network.
"a virtual library"
So we have seen church now be transformed to a concept of "Almost Real", "Not physically existing but being made to appear to do so Church". "Carried out by computer".
I am really having trouble seeing the concept of "Almost but not really Church".
Not for sure that was quite the meaning that Paul was writing in Hebrews 10 when he said... "Not forsaking the assembling..."
So what is next?
Virtual communion?
Or Virtual Altar calls?
Virtual laying on of hands for the sick? (Sounds a lot like the televangelist pitch... "Lay your hands upon your TV")
This makes me laugh when I think of how a major oneness organization used to cast men out of their fellowship for being on visual media (What was the guys name in Dallas years ago? It will come to me in a second... MARK HAMBY) and now have totally embraced it. They are all televangelists now!!!
How does virtual baptisms sound to you? (You almost got wet.... )
Do you instruct a person, in a virtual baptism, to get in their tub, put the phone or the laptop next to them on the sink, and submerse themselves in the name of Jesus? Is that how we do it now in the virtual world?
This current attack against the church is going to succeed where many have failed in the past. Many are going to get tricked by the "Virtual" mentality.
I absolutely abhor facebook although many of my friends and colleagues in the ministry have embraced it. It has grieved me on so many fronts including the control issue and the virtual reality issue. I am watching so many as they run blindly into the "Virtual" world.
Yes, I have heard the reasons that so many are going to the "Virtual " model of church. This fake pandemic has driven even more down the pathway. Yet I just can't buy into it.
Had a family member come to me last year and informed me how many more people would be able to be reached if we would just do facebook. Just couldn't hear from the Spirit to do it. Had to tell them, "No, not on my watch".
I guess I am to old and have seen the real too many times to be suckered into something virtual. Just can't get it.
Ponderings early in the morning.
Monterrey
04-10-2020, 03:58 AM
Virtual footwashing? How does that work? I put my foot up to the camera on my computer and you virtually wash it?
Praying for the sick...
Lay hands on the sick "Virtually" and they shall recover.... "Virtually?"
consapente89
04-10-2020, 04:53 PM
So, it seems that approx. 92% of American Christians polled are going to have virtual church this weekend.
Got thinking of the word VIRTUAL.
(almost or nearly as described, but not completely or according to strict definition.)
In the computer world it is this.
not physically existing as such but made by software to appear to do so. See also virtual reality.
"a virtual computer"
carried out, accessed, or stored by means of a computer, especially over a network.
"a virtual library"
So we have seen church now be transformed to a concept of "Almost Real", "Not physically existing but being made to appear to do so Church". "Carried out by computer".
I am really having trouble seeing the concept of "Almost but not really Church".
Not for sure that was quite the meaning that Paul was writing in Hebrews 10 when he said... "Not forsaking the assembling..."
So what is next?
Virtual communion?
Or Virtual Altar calls?
Virtual laying on of hands for the sick? (Sounds a lot like the televangelist pitch... "Lay your hands upon your TV")
This makes me laugh when I think of how a major oneness organization used to cast men out of their fellowship for being on visual media (What was the guys name in Dallas years ago? It will come to me in a second... MARK HAMBY) and now have totally embraced it. They are all televangelists now!!!
How does virtual baptisms sound to you? (You almost got wet.... )
Do you instruct a person, in a virtual baptism, to get in their tub, put the phone or the laptop next to them on the sink, and submerse themselves in the name of Jesus? Is that how we do it now in the virtual world?
This current attack against the church is going to succeed where many have failed in the past. Many are going to get tricked by the "Virtual" mentality.
I absolutely abhor facebook although many of my friends and colleagues in the ministry have embraced it. It has grieved me on so many fronts including the control issue and the virtual reality issue. I am watching so many as they run blindly into the "Virtual" world.
Yes, I have heard the reasons that so many are going to the "Virtual " model of church. This fake pandemic has driven even more down the pathway. Yet I just can't buy into it.
Had a family member come to me last year and informed me how many more people would be able to be reached if we would just do facebook. Just couldn't hear from the Spirit to do it. Had to tell them, "No, not on my watch".
I guess I am to old and have seen the real too many times to be suckered into something virtual. Just can't get it.
Ponderings early in the morning.
Very true on so many levels.
n david
04-10-2020, 05:03 PM
No one is "forsaking the assembling" as defined "abandon, renounce, give up."
Had you been alive in 1917-1918, you would have found churches closed to congregations. Or likely died.
hometown guy
04-10-2020, 05:31 PM
No one is "forsaking the assembling" as defined "abandon, renounce, give up."
Had you been alive in 1917-1918, you would have found churches closed to congregations. Or likely died.
This ain’t 1917-1918...this so far has not proven to be any worse pandemic then the swine flu ( not saying it won’t or can’t just not yet ). They have shut Fresno county down in California until the 6th of May .. 2 people have died in that fairly large county... sounds like a lot of churches are forsaking and giving up.
Esaias
04-10-2020, 06:34 PM
No one is "forsaking the assembling" as defined "abandon, renounce, give up."
Had you been alive in 1917-1918, you would have found churches closed to congregations. Or likely died.
Had you been alive in 1318 you would have burned at the stake as a heretic. So your point is?
Besides, the Spanish Flu was a combination of things all attributed to a "flu": mass novel vaccinations of military personnel, introduction of electrification and radio frequency radiation, a swine flu outbreak with unhygienic disposal methods (open burning of pigs by the thousands), and the introduction of aspirin with doctors prescribing MASSIVE megadoses resulting in both aspirin poisoning and what we now call Reye's Syndrome. All lumped together and called "Spanish Flu". Kind of like how various pneumonias, cardiac problems, other co-morbitities, 5G and 60GHz radiation, various seasonal flus and colds, etc are all being lumped together and called "COVID-19". Even to the point doctors are being told to forge death certificates, and the CDC changed their medical coding guidelines to allow practically anything to be classed as SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19), fueled by the fact hospitals have lost almost all their income due to the quarantines and lock downs EXCEPT for big mega bux for coronavirus diagnoses and treatments.
And that's not counting the people dying by iatrogenics due to intubated ventilator use which is largely unnecessary - but brings in the big $$.
Freeindeed
04-10-2020, 07:25 PM
We had virtual communion tonight. I have to say that even though I felt the Spirit of the Lord, I missed being with the church family.
KeptByTheWord
04-11-2020, 12:36 AM
Besides, the Spanish Flu was a combination of things all attributed to a "flu": mass novel vaccinations of military personnel, introduction of electrification and radio frequency radiation, a swine flu outbreak with unhygienic disposal methods (open burning of pigs by the thousands), and the introduction of aspirin with doctors prescribing MASSIVE megadoses resulting in both aspirin poisoning and what we now call Reye's Syndrome. All lumped together and called "Spanish Flu". Kind of like how various pneumonias, cardiac problems, other co-morbitities, 5G and 60GHz radiation, various seasonal flus and colds, etc are all being lumped together and called "COVID-19". Even to the point doctors are being told to forge death certificates, and the CDC changed their medical coding guidelines to allow practically anything to be classed as SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19), fueled by the fact hospitals have lost almost all their income due to the quarantines and lock downs EXCEPT for big mega bux for coronavirus diagnoses and treatments.
And that's not counting the people dying by iatrogenics due to intubated ventilator use which is largely unnecessary - but brings in the big $$.
Anything to get the numbers as high as possible to raise hysteria.
Amanah
04-11-2020, 03:39 AM
Here is the deal, even if the bldg. is closed, since we are the church, there is nothing stopping up from joining with family and friends and "having" church.
If anything, this is a wake up call to realize that church is not the building.
Michael The Disciple
04-11-2020, 04:57 AM
Here is the deal, even if the bldg. is closed, since we are the church, there is nothing stopping up from joining with family and friends and "having" church.
If anything, this is a wake up call to realize that church is not the building.
:highfive
2-3 weeks ago my leader did a fb video, speaking about the church being out of the walls, we are the church, etc,
3 days ago he did one and mentioned “here at the church”, referring to the bldg since he was the only one there, 3-4x in the first 4 mins of the video.
I don’t get it....tradition has its grasp I guess.
Even every New Testament (def:following resurrection) verse besides possibly in Revelation refers to the house of God as the ecclesia, not a bldg. But when God wants to “clean the house of God” he’s talking about our lives not the bathroom at a bldg. Not sure what it’s like everywhere else but here locally leadership is extremely hung up on the bldg being the special place dedicated to God for our gathering....called “our Bethel”, Gods house, house of God, House of the Lord.
It’s so ingrained I’m confident that verbiage will not go away, ever. Even knowing they met in homes for 275 years, won’t change it. Tradition.
Calling the bldg the church is soooooooo common, especially here locally. Probly everywhere I presume...
I believe that little detail is hurting the church.
Who we are, not where we go.
Amanah
04-11-2020, 06:01 AM
Are preachers hesitant to be political? Are they wording their messages in a way to avoid being prosecuted for hate speech? Does it have something to do with the bldg?
jediwill83
04-11-2020, 06:14 AM
Just me being real here.
I think this is Gods way of kicking some full grown birds out the nest to do what they were supposed to be doing. Not comfortable and a little scary but wow at the spiritual agoraphobia
Amanah
04-11-2020, 06:20 AM
Just me being real here.
I think this is Gods way of kicking some full grown birds out the nest to do what they were supposed to be doing. Not comfortable and a little scary but wow at the spiritual agoraphobia
I was just thinking how this would be a great time for Father's to step up and get a message for the family, family prayer, family altar, family ekklesia. It really worries me when men post of this forum asking if anyone knows of a bible study they can teach to win souls, really? seriously?, that is the basic gospel message.
james34
04-11-2020, 06:45 AM
For me this situation is alarming , because church to the world=(people -plural, building-with people, or building alone). So when legislation goes forth against gathering publicly it effects both people and building. Obviously when the government put forth the declaration of social distancing/closing of non essential business, this included not just the building but also the people, even bans car congregations.
I'm sure house churches would be shut down if word got out.(probably will eventually happen)
The bottom line is it doesn't matter what we know the church is (the people), it only matters how the world defines what the church is, when it comes to law enforcement and legislation being passed. That definition can change and grow to encompass more of the gathering places or any function wherin the people gather, .....it doesnt matter if it is an easter egg hunt in a field or an ok line live stream service....to the world the existing of the church in any form or any manifestation, becomes to problematic for them to allow its continued free operation and this is the facts according to scripture.
Amanah
04-11-2020, 06:48 AM
For me this situation is alarming , because church to the world=(people -plural, building-with people, or building alone). So when legislation goes forth against gathering publicly it effects both people and building. Obviously when the government put forth the declaration of social distancing/closing of non essential business, this included not just the building but also the people, even bans car congregations.
I'm sure house churches would be shut down if word got out.(probably will eventually happen)
The bottom line is it doesn't matter what we know the church is (the people), it only matters how the world defines what the church is, when it comes to law enforcement and legislation being passed. That definition can change and grow to encompass more of the gathering places or any function wherin the people gather, .....it doesnt matter if it is an easter egg hunt in a field or an ok line live stream service....to the world the existing of the church in any form or any manifestation, becomes to problematic for them to allow its continued free operation and this is the facts according to scripture.
Truth
This is going to be rather long, but I have a lot on my heart this morning…
There is something I have never understood about us… I have been AOP prenatal, as well as a forum member since FCF but I just don’t get why we have to pick at each other. Why can’t we see the good a particular thing or action might produce rather than bite and devour each other, and for what? Just because someone’s opinion or method is different than what we are used to, we have to ridicule? I don’t get it…
First of all, I don’t know of anyone who is happy about this situation, and prefers internet services over assembling together. So in my opinion, Hebrews 10 doesn’t even belong in a conversation about today’s situation. Every pastor and every child of God would MUCH rather be in the physical building… but let’s not forget, the building is NOT the Church… it is just the place where we meet. I ought to be able to worship anywhere, under any circumstances because I am the Church.
Secondly, why must we ridicule what another man of God feels to do as he shepherd’s the saints placed in his care by God during this trying time? The accounting for their souls should not be open for discussion on social media… every pastor will stand individually before the Lord to answer for how they handled every situation, including a stay-at-home mandate.
And so some mock ‘virtual’ communion, but why? Because it is not distributed under their watchful care… really?
The Rock Church in Elk Grove is having ‘parking lot service’ Sunday morning, and communion. Each family will bring their own elements… Sis. Wilson demonstrated beautifully online Thursday evening on how to make unleavened bread, followed by a wonderful lesson on communion.
The POA had communion Palm Sunday, and it was beautiful…
Bottom line as I see it from my house... we can discern the Lord's body in our home or front seat of our car. The sanctuary is not what makes it holy...
So in the subject of altar calls and baptism… I’m going to address these together…
What is SO farfetched about making an altar call online? Do churches make altar calls in their regular Live streamed services anyway? Why mock this? People can repent and receive the Holy Ghost anywhere, at anytime.
As for baptism… an Apostolic pastor was teaching an online Bible study recently, and felt led to ask anyone who wanted to be baptized to contact him. Two folks from out of state did, and received instruction from the church staff re the importance/necessity of baptism…
The pastor then called the family, the saved mother took her grown daughter to the bathtub where the pastor prayed over the water, as y’all always do… then he said, ‘according to the confession of your faith, I now baptize you in the Name of the Lord Jesus!’ The girl was immersed with the Name of Jesus called over her!
Dire circumstances call for dire measures… so tell me, what would YOU rather have been done? Wait until she could walk into a brick building where a preacher could put her under? Are we not about the saving of the soul?
As for the UPCI and WPF doing online services… folks are allowed to change their view in order to reach the masses, or don’t you think so?
The 1st century saints didn’t have a keyboard, so maybe we shouldn’t either… is that the mindset here? We read the Bible from a cell phone, and even return a tithe online or text… is any of this wrong? As long as we are not changing the doctrine of salvation and separation unto the Lord, who really should care if they were once against the internet and are now preaching on it?
One more thing… as for this being fake/hoax or whatever… I PERSONALLY know people who have died or were near death due to COVID-19…
Andrew Coffield… 29 year old youth pastor was at death’s door last week. I have known Andrew all of his life, so this is not some celebrity claiming sickness… this is real life, folks. It was extremely critical, but he has since recovered and is home, praise the Lord!
My brother pastors a church in Illinois, and PESONALLY knows several pastors in his state with the virus, including his district superintendent…
My former pastor’s wife from the COOLJC passed last week from complications due to COVID-19…
A UPCI pastor’s wife from Escanaba, MI passed two days from COVID-19…
Two of my nieces work in a nursing home, and have witnessed several residents passing away from COVID-19…
And Pastor Gerald Guevara, longtime missionary to Spain is critical… I have heard him preach several times as Pastor Gerald is closely associated with our local church. He desperately needs our prayers as I write…
It grieves me to think that instead of all of this going back in forth… is it real or a hoax? Do we hibernate until it’s over, maybe erring on the side of caution, or just ignore it… why not join together as one Body in fasting and prayer and leave the bickering to the world?
If Bro. Spell wants to open the doors of the church house the consequences, if any, are his responsibility. If it is a mistake it is on him. And if my pastor preaches tomorrow online, he is doing what he feels is best for us. And I tell you frankly, with my compromised immune system and that of my mother I wouldn’t be there even if the doors were open.
That is NOT fear. That is wisdom.
In the final analysis what are we accomplishing here? Have any of you brought someone to the place of changing their opinion on COVID-19, and the services online deal based solely on your comments? I tell you true, I am not naïve enough to think that my sharing my thoughts this morning will change anyone’s mind…
So in the words of Rodney King, ‘why can’t we all just get along?’ The fact that this is a forum should not excuse the remarks made in these threads. We are one family… God’s family. Right or wrong, who are any of us to stand in judgment against another?
jediwill83
04-11-2020, 09:37 AM
This is going to be rather long, but I have a lot on my heart this morning…
There is something I have never understood about us… I have been AOP prenatal, as well as a forum member since FCF but I just don’t get why we have to pick at each other. Why can’t we see the good a particular thing or action might produce rather than bite and devour each other, and for what? Just because someone’s opinion or method is different than what we are used to, we have to ridicule? I don’t get it…
First of all, I don’t know of anyone who is happy about this situation, and prefers internet services over assembling together. So in my opinion, Hebrews 10 doesn’t even belong in a conversation about today’s situation. Every pastor and every child of God would MUCH rather be in the physical building… but let’s not forget, the building is NOT the Church… it is just the place where we meet. I ought to be able to worship anywhere, under any circumstances because I am the Church.
Secondly, why must we ridicule what another man of God feels to do as he shepherd’s the saints placed in his care by God during this trying time? The accounting for their souls should not be open for discussion on social media… every pastor will stand individually before the Lord to answer for how they handled every situation, including a stay-at-home mandate.
And so some mock ‘virtual’ communion, but why? Because it is not distributed under their watchful care… really?
The Rock Church in Elk Grove is having ‘parking lot service’ Sunday morning, and communion. Each family will bring their own elements… Sis. Wilson demonstrated beautifully online Thursday evening on how to make unleavened bread, followed by a wonderful lesson on communion.
The POA had communion Palm Sunday, and it was beautiful…
Bottom line as I see it from my house... we can discern the Lord's body in our home or front seat of our car. The sanctuary is not what makes it holy...
So in the subject of altar calls and baptism… I’m going to address these together…
What is SO farfetched about making an altar call online? Do churches make altar calls in their regular Live streamed services anyway? Why mock this? People can repent and receive the Holy Ghost anywhere, at anytime.
As for baptism… an Apostolic pastor was teaching an online Bible study recently, and felt led to ask anyone who wanted to be baptized to contact him. Two folks from out of state did, and received instruction from the church staff re the importance/necessity of baptism…
The pastor then called the family, the saved mother took her grown daughter to the bathtub where the pastor prayed over the water, as y’all always do… then he said, ‘according to the confession of your faith, I now baptize you in the Name of the Lord Jesus!’ The girl was immersed with the Name of Jesus called over her!
Dire circumstances call for dire measures… so tell me, what would YOU rather have been done? Wait until she could walk into a brick building where a preacher could put her under? Are we not about the saving of the soul?
As for the UPCI and WPF doing online services… folks are allowed to change their view in order to reach the masses, or don’t you think so?
The 1st century saints didn’t have a keyboard, so maybe we shouldn’t either… is that the mindset here? We read the Bible from a cell phone, and even return a tithe online or text… is any of this wrong? As long as we are not changing the doctrine of salvation and separation unto the Lord, who really should care if they were once against the internet and are now preaching on it?
One more thing… as for this being fake/hoax or whatever… I PERSONALLY know people who have died or were near death due to COVID-19…
Andrew Coffield… 29 year old youth pastor was at death’s door last week. I have known Andrew all of his life, so this is not some celebrity claiming sickness… this is real life, folks. It was extremely critical, but he has since recovered and is home, praise the Lord!
My brother pastors a church in Illinois, and PESONALLY knows several pastors in his state with the virus, including his district superintendent…
My former pastor’s wife from the COOLJC passed last week from complications due to COVID-19…
A UPCI pastor’s wife from Escanaba, MI passed two days from COVID-19…
Two of my nieces work in a nursing home, and have witnessed several residents passing away from COVID-19…
And Pastor Gerald Guevara, longtime missionary to Spain is critical… I have heard him preach several times as Pastor Gerald is closely associated with our local church. He desperately needs our prayers as I write…
It grieves me to think that instead of all of this going back in forth… is it real or a hoax? Do we hibernate until it’s over, maybe erring on the side of caution, or just ignore it… why not join together as one Body in fasting and prayer and leave the bickering to the world?
If Bro. Spell wants to open the doors of the church house the consequences, if any, are his responsibility. If it is a mistake it is on him. And if my pastor preaches tomorrow online, he is doing what he feels is best for us. And I tell you frankly, with my compromised immune system and that of my mother I wouldn’t be there even if the doors were open.
That is NOT fear. That is wisdom.
In the final analysis what are we accomplishing here? Have any of you brought someone to the place of changing their opinion on COVID-19, and the services online deal based solely on your comments? I tell you true, I am not naïve enough to think that my sharing my thoughts this morning will change anyone’s mind…
So in the words of Rodney King, ‘why can’t we all just get along?’ The fact that this is a forum should not excuse the remarks made in these threads. We are one family… God’s family. Right or wrong, who are any of us to stand in judgment against another?
Right now...my life and family is in shambles as far as my family outside of my wife and daughter are concerned and health for my wife and work goes...I feel so out of control and lack the ability to move the needle in my life it seems no matter what I do...so when people are freaking out about major world events Im just over here feeling God can take care of His own business and is in control. I have a wife in bad pain, weakness and discomfort, a dad absent and divorced from my mom after 40 years of marriage and no job and its all just really overwhelming so right now I just have to trust that God is God and can handle all this mess and is control....some of you are bound and determined to fit God in your little box...Hes bigger than your box...way bigger and you do yourselves and your Savior a grave disservice not understanding this.
Monterrey
04-11-2020, 10:18 AM
This is going to be rather long, but I have a lot on my heart this morning…
There is something I have never understood about us… I have been AOP prenatal, as well as a forum member since FCF but I just don’t get why we have to pick at each other. Why can’t we see the good a particular thing or action might produce rather than bite and devour each other, and for what? Just because someone’s opinion or method is different than what we are used to, we have to ridicule? I don’t get it…
First of all, I don’t know of anyone who is happy about this situation, and prefers internet services over assembling together. So in my opinion, Hebrews 10 doesn’t even belong in a conversation about today’s situation. Every pastor and every child of God would MUCH rather be in the physical building… but let’s not forget, the building is NOT the Church… it is just the place where we meet. I ought to be able to worship anywhere, under any circumstances because I am the Church.
Secondly, why must we ridicule what another man of God feels to do as he shepherd’s the saints placed in his care by God during this trying time? The accounting for their souls should not be open for discussion on social media… every pastor will stand individually before the Lord to answer for how they handled every situation, including a stay-at-home mandate.
And so some mock ‘virtual’ communion, but why? Because it is not distributed under their watchful care… really?
The Rock Church in Elk Grove is having ‘parking lot service’ Sunday morning, and communion. Each family will bring their own elements… Sis. Wilson demonstrated beautifully online Thursday evening on how to make unleavened bread, followed by a wonderful lesson on communion.
The POA had communion Palm Sunday, and it was beautiful…
Bottom line as I see it from my house... we can discern the Lord's body in our home or front seat of our car. The sanctuary is not what makes it holy...
So in the subject of altar calls and baptism… I’m going to address these together…
What is SO farfetched about making an altar call online? Do churches make altar calls in their regular Live streamed services anyway? Why mock this? People can repent and receive the Holy Ghost anywhere, at anytime.
As for baptism… an Apostolic pastor was teaching an online Bible study recently, and felt led to ask anyone who wanted to be baptized to contact him. Two folks from out of state did, and received instruction from the church staff re the importance/necessity of baptism…
The pastor then called the family, the saved mother took her grown daughter to the bathtub where the pastor prayed over the water, as y’all always do… then he said, ‘according to the confession of your faith, I now baptize you in the Name of the Lord Jesus!’ The girl was immersed with the Name of Jesus called over her!
Dire circumstances call for dire measures… so tell me, what would YOU rather have been done? Wait until she could walk into a brick building where a preacher could put her under? Are we not about the saving of the soul?
As for the UPCI and WPF doing online services… folks are allowed to change their view in order to reach the masses, or don’t you think so?
The 1st century saints didn’t have a keyboard, so maybe we shouldn’t either… is that the mindset here? We read the Bible from a cell phone, and even return a tithe online or text… is any of this wrong? As long as we are not changing the doctrine of salvation and separation unto the Lord, who really should care if they were once against the internet and are now preaching on it?
One more thing… as for this being fake/hoax or whatever… I PERSONALLY know people who have died or were near death due to COVID-19…
Andrew Coffield… 29 year old youth pastor was at death’s door last week. I have known Andrew all of his life, so this is not some celebrity claiming sickness… this is real life, folks. It was extremely critical, but he has since recovered and is home, praise the Lord!
My brother pastors a church in Illinois, and PESONALLY knows several pastors in his state with the virus, including his district superintendent…
My former pastor’s wife from the COOLJC passed last week from complications due to COVID-19…
A UPCI pastor’s wife from Escanaba, MI passed two days from COVID-19…
Two of my nieces work in a nursing home, and have witnessed several residents passing away from COVID-19…
And Pastor Gerald Guevara, longtime missionary to Spain is critical… I have heard him preach several times as Pastor Gerald is closely associated with our local church. He desperately needs our prayers as I write…
It grieves me to think that instead of all of this going back in forth… is it real or a hoax? Do we hibernate until it’s over, maybe erring on the side of caution, or just ignore it… why not join together as one Body in fasting and prayer and leave the bickering to the world?
If Bro. Spell wants to open the doors of the church house the consequences, if any, are his responsibility. If it is a mistake it is on him. And if my pastor preaches tomorrow online, he is doing what he feels is best for us. And I tell you frankly, with my compromised immune system and that of my mother I wouldn’t be there even if the doors were open.
That is NOT fear. That is wisdom.
In the final analysis what are we accomplishing here? Have any of you brought someone to the place of changing their opinion on COVID-19, and the services online deal based solely on your comments? I tell you true, I am not naïve enough to think that my sharing my thoughts this morning will change anyone’s mind…
So in the words of Rodney King, ‘why can’t we all just get along?’ The fact that this is a forum should not excuse the remarks made in these threads. We are one family… God’s family. Right or wrong, who are any of us to stand in judgment against another?
Sorry that this thread offended you, I do apologize for the offense.
I also am grieved though. I have lived long enough to realize that there has been a cataclysmic change that has happened to the church world. I am honest and saying that I am not happy with it. Sorry if that offends you but it is the truth. My being grieved is as real as your being grieved. Probably neither one of us will change the other.
Don't know who Rodney King is so I can't and won't comment on that paragraph.
Does it not bother you that the physical congregating is now being replaced with the virtual almost real but not really internet church? Do you think Jesus would like that?
Forgive my bluntness but I also am grieved.
Monterrey
04-11-2020, 10:24 AM
Here is the deal, even if the bldg. is closed, since we are the church, there is nothing stopping up from joining with family and friends and "having" church.
If anything, this is a wake up call to realize that church is not the building.
I agree with you that the church is the body not the building.
We had three home services this week. Three different locations. Not virtual but real meetings. Each had 15-18 in them.
There was a wonderful move of the Spirit in each one. I do believe in them.
My issue here is the virtual … that gets me I guess.
Right now...my life and family is in shambles as far as my family outside of my wife and daughter are concerned and health for my wife and work goes...I feel so out of control and lack the ability to move the needle in my life it seems no matter what I do...so when people are freaking out about major world events Im just over here feeling God can take care of His own business and is in control. I have a wife in bad pain, weakness and discomfort, a dad absent and divorced from my mom after 40 years of marriage and no job and its all just really overwhelming so right now I just have to trust that God is God and can handle all this mess and is control....some of you are bound and determined to fit God in your little box...Hes bigger than your box...way bigger and you do yourselves and your Savior a grave disservice not understanding this.
Jedi, I think we all understand the world is upside down right now, and know that God is indeed in control. People everywhere are going through, and life is a bit overwhelming to many of us. But there is hope in our trials, and strength in His Word.
I am so sorry for the pain you and your family are going through, I truly am. You have my promise that my prayers are with you and for you. Right now I am praying for your wife to receive healing and strength, in Jesus' Name! May you find peace in the midst of it all...
Monterrey
04-11-2020, 10:25 AM
Are preachers hesitant to be political? Are they wording their messages in a way to avoid being prosecuted for hate speech? Does it have something to do with the bldg?
Or to do with their tax exemptions.
Sorry that this thread offended you, I do apologize for the offense.
I also am grieved though. I have lived long enough to realize that there has been a cataclysmic change that has happened to the church world. I am honest and saying that I am not happy with it. Sorry if that offends you but it is the truth. My being grieved is as real as your being grieved. Probably neither one of us will change the other.
Don't know who Rodney King is so I can't and won't comment on that paragraph.
Does it not bother you that the physical congregating is now being replaced with the virtual almost real but not really internet church? Do you think Jesus would like that?
Forgive my bluntness but I also am grieved.
The Rodney King line was a lame joke… he was the gentlemen nearly beat to death in the L.A. riots a zillion years ago. It was the ‘why can’t we all get along’ part that was the point.
I fully understand that you are not happy with this. At the beginning of my post I wrote that no one is happy with it. Does anyone honestly think a pastor or congregation would rather sit in their pjs than be in the house of prayer?
So yes, it certainly bothers me that we are unable to meet together, but in Michigan we are asked to stay at home. Grocery stores, large and small are limited in the number allowed in, and it is for the safety of us all. The church I faithfully attend is large, probably nearing 2,500-3,000 members. Sacrifices/adjustments had to be made, and it grieves us all, BUT we are looking to better days.
The purpose for my post was to simply say that be it virtual service or parking lot, packed out sanctuary or a pastor in an empty building, it matters little how we worship as long as we worship in Spirit and in Truth. To belittle and demean how a pastor chooses to minister to the masses is just not productive.
Thank you for your kind response to me… that goes a long way in brotherly love.
james34
04-11-2020, 07:38 PM
Here. Is a major difference and one problem presented by livestream services.
I personally know people who never attend church(but are physically able) and I know churches who even before this pandemic, were livestreaming their services. I even chimed in on these services(as it is a church some of my sinner family is associated with and one where I preach when I'm in their area)
But as I watch these live streamed services I notice several well able people in that area chiming in and posting amens throughout. I have watched this for probably 2 if not 3 years. These people claimed christianity off and on for some years even before internet services were available. What I am noticing is that these livestream services are not impacting their lives the way being physically present would. I dont believe the same conviction power is present or it's easier to push it away when it's just on a screen and speaker. We as Christian's may pretend not to know the difference, but sinner folks do and they will take an online service where they wouldn't dare go into a church house with a live service. So what is it that makes the sinner more comfortable, if it's the same? The fear of God isnt falling in the same manner, maybe that's why some Christians are gravitating toward the livestream services themselves.
Online and virtual services seem to mostly bring about a lip service type of Christianity, that is mostly steeped in superstition if one looks closely. I know folks that wouldn't go near repentance, but they are quick to copy or share anything presented to them on social media, with the promise of a blessing. We really do folks a disfavor by going along with this virtual church stuff. It has its place, but it's not a replacement, not even close.
diakonos
04-11-2020, 07:50 PM
I’m not big on live streaming. At all. I may stream again. Not sure.
Can God touch someone through live stream? Yes. Even something recorded months or years ago.
One time I was watching a preaching video while at work... so there would be some background noise to help keep me awake.
Suddenly and unexpected... the Spirit of God filled my car. And there I was, weeping, snot bubbles, and glossolalia.
I’m not big on live streaming. At all. I may stream again. Not sure.
Can God touch someone through live stream? Yes. Even something recorded months or years ago.
One time I was watching a preaching video while at work... so there would be some background noise to help keep me awake.
Suddenly and unexpected... the Spirit of God filled my car. And there I was, weeping, snot bubbles, and glossolalia.
If God could speak through a donkey, He can speak to us from a video or Live streamed service. The thing is, no one I know is calling this the new way to go or the preferred method... it is just the most viable at this juncture.
Here. Is a major difference and one problem presented by livestream services.
I personally know people who never attend church(but are physically able) and I know churches who even before this pandemic, were livestreaming their services. I even chimed in on these services(as it is a church some of my sinner family is associated with and one where I preach when I'm in their area)
But as I watch these live streamed services I notice several well able people in that area chiming in and posting amens throughout. I have watched this for probably 2 if not 3 years. These people claimed christianity off and on for some years even before internet services were available. What I am noticing is that these livestream services are not impacting their lives the way being physically present would. I dont believe the same conviction power is present or it's easier to push it away when it's just on a screen and speaker. We as Christian's may pretend not to know the difference, but sinner folks do and they will take an online service where they wouldn't dare go into a church house with a live service. So what is it that makes the sinner more comfortable, if it's the same? The fear of God isnt falling in the same manner, maybe that's why some Christians are gravitating toward the livestream services themselves.
Online and virtual services seem to mostly bring about a lip service type of Christianity, that is mostly steeped in superstition if one looks closely. I know folks that wouldn't go near repentance, but they are quick to copy or share anything presented to them on social media, with the promise of a blessing. We really do folks a disfavor by going along with this virtual church stuff. It has its place, but it's not a replacement, not even close.
I'm sorry. Maybe I missed it, but just WHO is calling it a replacement?!
Esaias
04-11-2020, 10:56 PM
If God could speak through a donkey, He can speak to us from a video or Live streamed service. The thing is, no one I know is calling this the new way to go or the preferred method... it is just the most viable at this juncture.
The problem is "this juncture" is intended to be essentially permanent.
hometown guy
04-11-2020, 11:18 PM
If God could speak through a donkey, He can speak to us from a video or Live streamed service. The thing is, no one I know is calling this the new way to go or the preferred method... it is just the most viable at this juncture.
The problem is it shouldn’t be the only viable option during this juncture .... they have deemed church gatherings unessential... it’s going to one day be a fight now that we essentially gave into....
Esaias
04-11-2020, 11:28 PM
You could still go to church in Communist Russia, just like you can in Communist China. As long as government approval was/is in place. In those tyrannies, the government approved WHERE and WHEN you could go to church. Here, government has largely just outlawed all of it.
But you can still utube it, I suppose that's freedom.
james34
04-12-2020, 07:39 AM
I'm sorry. Maybe I missed it, but just WHO is calling it a replacement?!
Who is saying it's only short term?
Why is short term replacement acceptable, but not long term?
How long is short term?
coksiw
04-12-2020, 08:36 AM
Here. Is a major difference and one problem presented by livestream services.
I personally know people who never attend church(but are physically able) and I know churches who even before this pandemic, were livestreaming their services. I even chimed in on these services(as it is a church some of my sinner family is associated with and one where I preach when I'm in their area)
But as I watch these live streamed services I notice several well able people in that area chiming in and posting amens throughout. I have watched this for probably 2 if not 3 years. These people claimed christianity off and on for some years even before internet services were available. What I am noticing is that these livestream services are not impacting their lives the way being physically present would. I dont believe the same conviction power is present or it's easier to push it away when it's just on a screen and speaker. We as Christian's may pretend not to know the difference, but sinner folks do and they will take an online service where they wouldn't dare go into a church house with a live service. So what is it that makes the sinner more comfortable, if it's the same? The fear of God isnt falling in the same manner, maybe that's why some Christians are gravitating toward the livestream services themselves.
Online and virtual services seem to mostly bring about a lip service type of Christianity, that is mostly steeped in superstition if one looks closely. I know folks that wouldn't go near repentance, but they are quick to copy or share anything presented to them on social media, with the promise of a blessing. We really do folks a disfavor by going along with this virtual church stuff. It has its place, but it's not a replacement, not even close.
Brother this is an excellent post. I think this is going to be over, but we really don't understand the impact on some members after this is over. I believe many will come back, it is not that they are having fun and places to go in a situation like this anyways. They all probably can't wait to gather with other humans as they miss it badly. During the Spanish flu, when it was over, we didn't hear of a massive exodus of people from the church, it was quite the opposite.
We need broadcasting as we need letters, they are good and anointed (that's how we got the new testament); however, I agree that it is not enough. I just hope this goes away soon.
I honestly think we should cooperate with the community and show that we care. Love is greater than faith. A good compromise is splitting large assemblies in small groups of less than 10, and assign teachers to them, and then having leaders over 50, to keep the accountability. But for that to be a feasible, there should have been already a team of teachers in place. It only takes two or three to have church.
For the practical standpoint, if you have a cluster of believers that do protect themselves sufficiently from other people outside that cluster, then they may effectively protect the cluster. And if one of them get it and pass it to the rest, then they won't contribute to overwhelm the hospital as the cluster was small to begin with.
The problem is "this juncture" is intended to be essentially permanent.
Respectfully, you know this how...?
Did you hear a still small voice?
Did you receive some hidden memo the government is keeping from the masses?
Or has a gift of suspicion taking over?
Again, in all respect to you, you don't have a clue anymore than I do of how this is going to play out, so why can't we pray for the best, and trust the One who does know to handle His business.
How EVER this goes, God has ALWAYS had a people, and the Church will be triumphant!!!
My sincerest prayers for you and your family during this ordeal, and I would ask you to pray for us. :)
james34
04-12-2020, 10:56 AM
1And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. 2But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. 3And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. 4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. 5And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. 6These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
20The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches
If you read through the 7 churches, you find that only 2 were in a place where they were not told to repent. This means 2 of the 7 churches were acceptable before God.
My belief is that we each belong(in accordance to the life we are living) to one of these 7 churches. But there are only two that truly are standing by God. If our attributes put us in one of the other 5, we can repent and then would be in line with the other two, and not the 5. We would then be the faithful witnesses of God , throughout the earth wherever we may be.
Having said all of the above;
We will have at some point(possibly now) have power to smite the earth with all plagues.....
If we act in accordance with the majority of present day christianity (in forsaking the assembling) then every time a plague goes forth(sent by the witnesses) we would have to run and hide from the results of our own power.
james34
04-12-2020, 11:03 AM
....
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
The problem is "this juncture" is intended to be essentially permanent.
Respectfully, you know this how...?
Did you hear a still small voice?
Did you receive some hidden memo the government is keeping from the masses?
Or has a gift of suspicion taking over?
Again, in all respect to you, you don't have a clue anymore than I do of how this is going to play out, so why can't we pray for the best, and trust the One who does know to handle His business.
How EVER this goes, God has ALWAYS had a people, and the Church will be triumphant!!!
My sincerest prayers for you and your family during this ordeal, and I would ask you to pray for us.
Who is saying it's only short term?
Why is short term replacement acceptable, but not long term?
How long is short term?
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
The problem is "this juncture" is intended to be essentially permanent.
Respectfully, you know this how...?
Did you hear a still small voice?
Did you receive some hidden memo the government is keeping from the masses?
Or has a gift of suspicion taking over?
Again, in all respect to you, you don't have a clue anymore than I do of how this is going to play out, so why can't we pray for the best, and trust the One who does know to handle His business.
How EVER this goes, God has ALWAYS had a people, and the Church will be triumphant!!!
My sincerest prayers for you and your family during this ordeal, and I would ask you to pray for us.
Who is saying it's only short term?
Why is short term replacement acceptable, but not long term?
How long is short term?
I don't know how long long is, but neither does anyone else. I am not saying this acceptable, but in the meantime I am trying to make the best of a situation that is out of my control. :)
Gotta go and put my homemade noodles on to simmer... :)
Esaias
04-12-2020, 01:37 PM
Respectfully, you know this how...?
Did you hear a still small voice?
Did you receive some hidden memo the government is keeping from the masses?
Or has a gift of suspicion taking over?
Again, in all respect to you, you don't have a clue anymore than I do of how this is going to play out, so why can't we pray for the best, and trust the One who does know to handle His business.
How EVER this goes, God has ALWAYS had a people, and the Church will be triumphant!!!
My sincerest prayers for you and your family during this ordeal, and I would ask you to pray for us. :)
Sister, the CDC, the World Health Organization, the Bill Gates Foundation (which funds the WHO and controls the CDC), the WH Task Force members, etc are all saying this is not going to return to how things used to be. The government, the media, and Big Pharma are all saying this is basically the new normal. Have you not been paying attention to how this has all played out?
The "return to normalcy" is always "just around the corner" but we never seem to arrive. Why is that?
This plandemic is meant to provide for the introduction of 24/7 real-time monitoring of all people, internal passports ("immunity/vaccination papers"), elimination of cash in favour of all digital money, mandatory vaccinations, ID2020 (literally mandatory imicrochip implants), strict controls on employment, assembly, and purchases of only APPROVED items, constant shortages, artificial scarcities, I mean the list goes on and on. This isn't my opinion, this is what THEY HAVE THEMSELVES BEEN SAYING.
Most churches have obeyed their true Master, Big State aka BAAL. And will continue to do so. Over a decade ago it came out that some 20 THOUSAND+ pastors were enrolled with FEMA to specifically preach and teach subservience to all government edicts during a declared "emergency".
We've been warned about this since the 1920s! All those congressmen, ex-communists, even the communists themselves, all told America over and over that our government, schools, churches, universities, media, entertainment, even businesses, would be subverted and America would become communist without a shot being fired.
And here we are.
Sister, the CDC, the World Health Organization, the Bill Gates Foundation (which funds the WHO and controls the CDC), the WH Task Force members, etc are all saying this is not going to return to how things used to be. The government, the media, and Big Pharma are all saying this is basically the new normal. Have you not been paying attention to how this has all played out?
The "return to normalcy" is always "just around the corner" but we never seem to arrive. Why is that?
This plandemic is meant to provide for the introduction of 24/7 real-time monitoring of all people, internal passports ("immunity/vaccination papers"), elimination of cash in favour of all digital money, mandatory vaccinations, ID2020 (literally mandatory imicrochip implants), strict controls on employment, assembly, and purchases of only APPROVED items, constant shortages, artificial scarcities, I mean the list goes on and on. This isn't my opinion, this is what THEY HAVE THEMSELVES BEEN SAYING.
Most churches have obeyed their true Master, Big State aka BAAL. And will continue to do so. Over a decade ago it came out that some 20 THOUSAND+ pastors were enrolled with FEMA to specifically preach and teach subservience to all government edicts during a declared "emergency".
We've been warned about this since the 1920s! All those congressmen, ex-communists, even the communists themselves, all told America over and over that our government, schools, churches, universities, media, entertainment, even businesses, would be subverted and America would become communist without a shot being fired.
And here we are.
For the record, I HAVE been paying attention, thank you very much, but I don't believe everything I read and hear. I’m not hiding my head in the sand, but rather choose to look to a brighter day.
My former pastor said today, speaking about the hour in which we live, "It’s a valid reason today (for having service the way they are), but will it be a valid reason tomorrow?”
Who knows? Who can say that we will never again be allowed back in the church building? I don’t have a clue, but again, neither do you or Bishop Wilson. All any of us can do is speculate… in the meantime, I choose joy!
I will say that I have tried to be respectful here, but for you to say that “Most churches have obeyed their true master… BAAL!” This is a terrible thing to say about the household of faith!!!
I would ask what you would have us do, but it is useless again for me to continue this discussion. If we could share thoughts and ideas without the ridicule, I would gladly join in… but it’s hopeless.
As I said before, I am praying for you and your family… good day!
Evang.Benincasa
04-12-2020, 04:45 PM
:highfive
Oh, high five from the guy who has been having virtual church since the 80s.
Evang.Benincasa
04-12-2020, 04:46 PM
How are those virtual baptisms going?
How are those virtual baptisms going?
I personally know of one, and it went well. :)
Freeindeed
04-12-2020, 05:31 PM
How are those virtual baptisms going?
Hey, you're back! Good to see posting today Brother Benincasa.
Evang.Benincasa
04-12-2020, 05:50 PM
I have been gone of late, but see that the topic of discussion is the present situation. I have been super busy with selling the most sought after thing in America. DUMBBELLS, BARBELLS (especially OLYMPIC) PLATES, and KETTLEBELLS. Dumbbell handles are super rare right now fetching prices in the upwards of 80 dollars a set. It is because the GYMNASIUMS have all closed with the churches. But, these guys and gals can't go virtual. You can't lift some crazy weight over the internet. You got to get you some Iron from the Iron pile. The boys and girls have to get going and pick up some heavy things and quick. Because there are gainzz a wasting away. People are getting smaller by the day.
Sad, but true, all over the country, the Iron brethren are in search of reps. No gym. But what I noticed, is that they are congregating in secret, forming into groups secretly in homes, garages, barns, backyards, places where they can't be heard lifting and clanging weights. They're meeting together in numbers, 20 sometimes 30. I have also seen new lifters become discouraged, and totally stop eating right, they have no equipment at home. No trainers to help them train, or give them encouragement. These new lifters, and people who were trying to get their lives in shape no longer have a gym. They can't virtual lift, no way to be encouraged by a YouTubes video on lifting, because a video can't train with you. A video can't spot you on the bench, or the squat rack. There is something about working out with other lifters to spur you on, while you are training. It is different for old lifters like us, we have been lifting for a long time. We can train all alone, we know how to do things where a spotter isn't needed. We don't need to be spurred on, because it is all second nature to us, plus we understand the consequences of stopping, or not finishing a set. The newbies don't understand that, or the young people who are just coming into the Iron Pile.
I have sold more weights in three weeks then I have ever in my life. It has been unprecedented what is happening. Another thing, I had an individual who is a lifter, and so is his girlfriend. While he is curled up in the fetal position on the couch watching reruns of Gilligan's Island, and eating Hagendaz. His girlfriend is knocking down reps doing flies with two car rims. Two different mindsets. Both were gym rats extraordinaries. But since the Gym sent them the Dear John Email one got so low he couldn't maintain at home. Home couldn't do it for him, instead of doing what is girlfriend was doing through improvisation. He curled up in the fetal position and started sucking his thumb. He wasn't a newbie. He wasn't a new convert who didn't know how to go in and out. He was a lifter for years, but since he no longer had Cybex, Hammer Strength Equipment, and a row of dumbbells on a rack he fell apart.
Yet, when he got around other lifters he didn't get a shoulder rub down, and a sweet love message. His girlfriend showed him no mercy, because she was smashing sets to powder, like a champion. He got brought back in line with some one on one pointing towards the way to the Iron Pile. Hey, most of you people have been Apostolic since Olan Mills was a boy. So, you are going to do alright, but what about soul winning? What about new visitors? What about praying people through to snot bubbles and tears? Kinda hard snotting up in a mask. What about water baptism? I guess that got put on hold as well?
Evang.Benincasa
04-12-2020, 05:51 PM
Hey, you're back! Good to see posting today Brother Benincasa.
What does it say on that guy's sign?
Evang.Benincasa
04-12-2020, 05:54 PM
I personally know of one, and it went well. :)
Really? I can't baptize over the Internet when they listen to me preach in Greece, Colombia, or Mexico. We have to go their in person to baptize them.
Didn't you understand what I posted sister?
diakonos
04-12-2020, 06:08 PM
Really? I can't baptize over the Internet when they listen to me preach in Greece, Colombia, or Mexico. We have to go their in person to baptize them.
Didn't you understand what I posted sister?
A pastor said “in Jesus’ name” on FaceTime while someone was dunked in a bathtub by their mother.
Evang.Benincasa
04-12-2020, 06:16 PM
A pastor said “in Jesus’ name” on FaceTime while someone was dunked in a bathtub by their mother.
https://media.giphy.com/media/eCRJADLCVp4zK/giphy.gif
james34
04-12-2020, 06:40 PM
A pastor said “in Jesus’ name” on FaceTime while someone was dunked in a bathtub by their mother.
Lol, well it's no worse than online service
I have been gone of late, but see that the topic of discussion is the present situation. I have been super busy with selling the most sought after thing in America. DUMBBELLS, BARBELLS (especially OLYMPIC) PLATES, and KETTLEBELLS. Dumbbell handles are super rare right now fetching prices in the upwards of 80 dollars a set. It is because the GYMNASIUMS have all closed with the churches. But, these guys and gals can't go virtual. You can't lift some crazy weight over the internet. You got to get you some Iron from the Iron pile. The boys and girls have to get going and pick up some heavy things and quick. Because there are gainzz a wasting away. People are getting smaller by the day.
Sad, but true, all over the country, the Iron brethren are in search of reps. No gym. But what I noticed, is that they are congregating in secret, forming into groups secretly in homes, garages, barns, backyards, places where they can't be heard lifting and clanging weights. They're meeting together in numbers, 20 sometimes 30. I have also seen new lifters become discouraged, and totally stop eating right, they have no equipment at home. No trainers to help them train, or give them encouragement. These new lifters, and people who were trying to get their lives in shape no longer have a gym. They can't virtual lift, no way to be encouraged by a YouTubes video on lifting, because a video can't train with you. A video can't spot you on the bench, or the squat rack. There is something about working out with other lifters to spur you on, while you are training. It is different for old lifters like us, we have been lifting for a long time. We can train all alone, we know how to do things where a spotter isn't needed. We don't need to be spurred on, because it is all second nature to us, plus we understand the consequences of stopping, or not finishing a set. The newbies don't understand that, or the young people who are just coming into the Iron Pile.
I have sold more weights in three weeks then I have ever in my life. It has been unprecedented what is happening. Another thing, I had an individual who is a lifter, and so is his girlfriend. While he is curled up in the fetal position on the couch watching reruns of Gilligan's Island, and eating Hagendaz. His girlfriend is knocking down reps doing flies with two car rims. Two different mindsets. Both were gym rats extraordinaries. But since the Gym sent them the Dear John Email one got so low he couldn't maintain at home. Home couldn't do it for him, instead of doing what is girlfriend was doing through improvisation. He curled up in the fetal position and started sucking his thumb. He wasn't a newbie. He wasn't a new convert who didn't know how to go in and out. He was a lifter for years, but since he no longer had Cybex, Hammer Strength Equipment, and a row of dumbbells on a rack he fell apart.
Yet, when he got around other lifters he didn't get a shoulder rub down, and a sweet love message. His girlfriend showed him no mercy, because she was smashing sets to powder, like a champion. He got brought back in line with some one on one pointing towards the way to the Iron Pile. Hey, most of you people have been Apostolic since Olan Mills was a boy. So, you are going to do alright, but what about soul winning? What about new visitors? What about praying people through to snot bubbles and tears? Kinda hard snotting up in a mask. What about water baptism? I guess that got put on hold as well?
Good post.
Makes me want to knock some of the dust off of my weights.
But even moreso to make sure I’m being His church, meeting w others to Spiritually train together and reach this wicked world for our Saviour.
james34
04-12-2020, 07:27 PM
I have been gone of late, but see that the topic of discussion is the present situation. I have been super busy with selling the most sought after thing in America. DUMBBELLS, BARBELLS (especially OLYMPIC) PLATES, and KETTLEBELLS. Dumbbell handles are super rare right now fetching prices in the upwards of 80 dollars a set. It is because the GYMNASIUMS have all closed with the churches. But, these guys and gals can't go virtual. You can't lift some crazy weight over the internet. You got to get you some Iron from the Iron pile. The boys and girls have to get going and pick up some heavy things and quick. Because there are gainzz a wasting away. People are getting smaller by the day.
Sad, but true, all over the country, the Iron brethren are in search of reps. No gym. But what I noticed, is that they are congregating in secret, forming into groups secretly in homes, garages, barns, backyards, places where they can't be heard lifting and clanging weights. They're meeting together in numbers, 20 sometimes 30. I have also seen new lifters become discouraged, and totally stop eating right, they have no equipment at home. No trainers to help them train, or give them encouragement. These new lifters, and people who were trying to get their lives in shape no longer have a gym. They can't virtual lift, no way to be encouraged by a YouTubes video on lifting, because a video can't train with you. A video can't spot you on the bench, or the squat rack. There is something about working out with other lifters to spur you on, while you are training. It is different for old lifters like us, we have been lifting for a long time. We can train all alone, we know how to do things where a spotter isn't needed. We don't need to be spurred on, because it is all second nature to us, plus we understand the consequences of stopping, or not finishing a set. The newbies don't understand that, or the young people who are just coming into the Iron Pile.
I have sold more weights in three weeks then I have ever in my life. It has been unprecedented what is happening. Another thing, I had an individual who is a lifter, and so is his girlfriend. While he is curled up in the fetal position on the couch watching reruns of Gilligan's Island, and eating Hagendaz. His girlfriend is knocking down reps doing flies with two car rims. Two different mindsets. Both were gym rats extraordinaries. But since the Gym sent them the Dear John Email one got so low he couldn't maintain at home. Home couldn't do it for him, instead of doing what is girlfriend was doing through improvisation. He curled up in the fetal position and started sucking his thumb. He wasn't a newbie. He wasn't a new convert who didn't know how to go in and out. He was a lifter for years, but since he no longer had Cybex, Hammer Strength Equipment, and a row of dumbbells on a rack he fell apart.
Yet, when he got around other lifters he didn't get a shoulder rub down, and a sweet love message. His girlfriend showed him no mercy, because she was smashing sets to powder, like a champion. He got brought back in line with some one on one pointing towards the way to the Iron Pile. Hey, most of you people have been Apostolic since Olan Mills was a boy. So, you are going to do alright, but what about soul winning? What about new visitors? What about praying people through to snot bubbles and tears? Kinda hard snotting up in a mask. What about water baptism? I guess that got put on hold as well?
Wow, I missed the parallel of this post the first time I read it. Thanks to another member who commented about the relevance I went back and read it. This if I'm not careful would fit me too a tee. These are the times I have been training for for so long. Not only can we save ourselves, but there are many souls to be saved. The word of God is as relevant as it has ever been.
With an increase in tribulation, I believe God will sustain his people with a greater increase and outpouring of his Spirt.
....and by the way great post, thanks for sharing.
Michael The Disciple
04-12-2020, 08:08 PM
Wow, I missed the parallel of this post the first time I read it. Thanks to another member who commented about the relevance I went back and read it. This if I'm not careful would fit me too a tee. These are the times I have been training for for so long. Not only can we save ourselves, but there are many souls to be saved. The word of God is as relevant as it has ever been.
With an increase in tribulation, I believe God will sustain his people with a greater increase and outpouring of his Spirt.
....and by the way great post, thanks for sharing.
:highfive
Michael The Disciple
04-12-2020, 08:17 PM
Obviously meeting in person is the ideal. "Virtual" Christianity is IMO a great thing. I have met with other saints online for "Church" many times. Many times I have been able to teach the awesome foundation truths of Christ to others online.
Live streaming Church is very good for the time in which we live. If local Church is weak on truth and Church far away is stronger on truth and you can be there online guess where I will be?
Church will one day, maybe later, maybe soon, be done underground. People need to develop a strategy for that.
Esaias
04-12-2020, 08:55 PM
For the record, I HAVE been paying attention, thank you very much, but I don't believe everything I read and hear. I’m not hiding my head in the sand, but rather choose to look to a brighter day.
My former pastor said today, speaking about the hour in which we live, "It’s a valid reason today (for having service the way they are), but will it be a valid reason tomorrow?”
Who knows? Who can say that we will never again be allowed back in the church building? I don’t have a clue, but again, neither do you or Bishop Wilson. All any of us can do is speculate… in the meantime, I choose joy!
I will say that I have tried to be respectful here, but for you to say that “Most churches have obeyed their true master… BAAL!” This is a terrible thing to say about the household of faith!!!
I would ask what you would have us do, but it is useless again for me to continue this discussion. If we could share thoughts and ideas without the ridicule, I would gladly join in… but it’s hopeless.
As I said before, I am praying for you and your family… good day!
What ridicule? Baal worship is alive and well in modern America, has been for a long time. I did not say anything about the household of faith obeying Baal. I used the word churches in its generic sense. Any church that obeys man in opposition to God is not the household of faith.
I am sorry you are upset about me pointing out the obvious.
I appreciate your prayers, and I mean that with all sincerity. It was NEVER my intention to offend you or cause you grief or consternation.
Esaias
04-12-2020, 08:57 PM
Obviously meeting in person is the ideal. "Virtual" Christianity is IMO a great thing. I have met with other saints online for "Church" many times. Many times I have been able to teach the awesome foundation truths of Christ to others online.
Live streaming Church is very good for the time in which we live. If local Church is weak on truth and Church far away is stronger on truth and you can be there online guess where I will be?
Church will one day, maybe later, maybe soon, be done underground. People need to develop a strategy for that.
It's already been developed, and there's nothing virtual about it. Sitting alone in your house and trying to utube a move of God isn't where the future is at. Sorry.
Esaias
04-12-2020, 09:00 PM
I have been gone of late, but see that the topic of discussion is the present situation. I have been super busy with selling the most sought after thing in America. DUMBBELLS, BARBELLS (especially OLYMPIC) PLATES, and KETTLEBELLS. Dumbbell handles are super rare right now fetching prices in the upwards of 80 dollars a set. It is because the GYMNASIUMS have all closed with the churches. But, these guys and gals can't go virtual. You can't lift some crazy weight over the internet. You got to get you some Iron from the Iron pile. The boys and girls have to get going and pick up some heavy things and quick. Because there are gainzz a wasting away. People are getting smaller by the day.
Sad, but true, all over the country, the Iron brethren are in search of reps. No gym. But what I noticed, is that they are congregating in secret, forming into groups secretly in homes, garages, barns, backyards, places where they can't be heard lifting and clanging weights. They're meeting together in numbers, 20 sometimes 30. I have also seen new lifters become discouraged, and totally stop eating right, they have no equipment at home. No trainers to help them train, or give them encouragement. These new lifters, and people who were trying to get their lives in shape no longer have a gym. They can't virtual lift, no way to be encouraged by a YouTubes video on lifting, because a video can't train with you. A video can't spot you on the bench, or the squat rack. There is something about working out with other lifters to spur you on, while you are training. It is different for old lifters like us, we have been lifting for a long time. We can train all alone, we know how to do things where a spotter isn't needed. We don't need to be spurred on, because it is all second nature to us, plus we understand the consequences of stopping, or not finishing a set. The newbies don't understand that, or the young people who are just coming into the Iron Pile.
I have sold more weights in three weeks then I have ever in my life. It has been unprecedented what is happening. Another thing, I had an individual who is a lifter, and so is his girlfriend. While he is curled up in the fetal position on the couch watching reruns of Gilligan's Island, and eating Hagendaz. His girlfriend is knocking down reps doing flies with two car rims. Two different mindsets. Both were gym rats extraordinaries. But since the Gym sent them the Dear John Email one got so low he couldn't maintain at home. Home couldn't do it for him, instead of doing what is girlfriend was doing through improvisation. He curled up in the fetal position and started sucking his thumb. He wasn't a newbie. He wasn't a new convert who didn't know how to go in and out. He was a lifter for years, but since he no longer had Cybex, Hammer Strength Equipment, and a row of dumbbells on a rack he fell apart.
Yet, when he got around other lifters he didn't get a shoulder rub down, and a sweet love message. His girlfriend showed him no mercy, because she was smashing sets to powder, like a champion. He got brought back in line with some one on one pointing towards the way to the Iron Pile. Hey, most of you people have been Apostolic since Olan Mills was a boy. So, you are going to do alright, but what about soul winning? What about new visitors? What about praying people through to snot bubbles and tears? Kinda hard snotting up in a mask. What about water baptism? I guess that got put on hold as well?
Glad to see you're back! :highfive
Freeindeed
04-12-2020, 09:21 PM
What does it say on that guy's sign?
"I was your pilot
someone sneezed
good luck."
Really? I can't baptize over the Internet when they listen to me preach in Greece, Colombia, or Mexico. We have to go their in person to baptize them.
Didn't you understand what I posted sister?
First of all, I am not illiterate, so please do not speak to me as tho' I were... I understood completely what you posted.
As you have been on hiatus I guess you missed this post. I know before you even read it you won't agree with it, but here it is anyway...
This is going to be rather long, but I have a lot on my heart this morning…
There is something I have never understood about us… I have been AOP prenatal, as well as a forum member since FCF but I just don’t get why we have to pick at each other. Why can’t we see the good a particular thing or action might produce rather than bite and devour each other, and for what? Just because someone’s opinion or method is different than what we are used to, we have to ridicule? I don’t get it…
First of all, I don’t know of anyone who is happy about this situation, and prefers internet services over assembling together. So in my opinion, Hebrews 10 doesn’t even belong in a conversation about today’s situation. Every pastor and every child of God would MUCH rather be in the physical building… but let’s not forget, the building is NOT the Church… it is just the place where we meet. I ought to be able to worship anywhere, under any circumstances because I am the Church.
Secondly, why must we ridicule what another man of God feels to do as he shepherd’s the saints placed in his care by God during this trying time? The accounting for their souls should not be open for discussion on social media… every pastor will stand individually before the Lord to answer for how they handled every situation, including a stay-at-home mandate.
And so some mock ‘virtual’ communion, but why? Because it is not distributed under their watchful care… really?
The Rock Church in Elk Grove is having ‘parking lot service’ Sunday morning, and communion. Each family will bring their own elements… Sis. Wilson demonstrated beautifully online Thursday evening on how to make unleavened bread, followed by a wonderful lesson on communion.
The POA had communion Palm Sunday, and it was beautiful…
Bottom line as I see it from my house... we can discern the Lord's body in our home or front seat of our car. The sanctuary is not what makes it holy...
So in the subject of altar calls and baptism… I’m going to address these together…
What is SO farfetched about making an altar call online? Do churches make altar calls in their regular Live streamed services anyway? Why mock this? People can repent and receive the Holy Ghost anywhere, at anytime.
As for baptism… an Apostolic pastor was teaching an online Bible study recently, and felt led to ask anyone who wanted to be baptized to contact him. Two folks from out of state did, and received instruction from the church staff re the importance/necessity of baptism…
The pastor then called the family, the saved mother took her grown daughter to the bathtub where the pastor prayed over the water, as y’all always do… then he said, ‘according to the confession of your faith, I now baptize you in the Name of the Lord Jesus!’ The girl was immersed with the Name of Jesus called over her!
Dire circumstances call for dire measures… so tell me, what would YOU rather have been done? Wait until she could walk into a brick building where a preacher could put her under? Are we not about the saving of the soul?
As for the UPCI and WPF doing online services… folks are allowed to change their view in order to reach the masses, or don’t you think so?
The 1st century saints didn’t have a keyboard, so maybe we shouldn’t either… is that the mindset here? We read the Bible from a cell phone, and even return a tithe online or text… is any of this wrong? As long as we are not changing the doctrine of salvation and separation unto the Lord, who really should care if they were once against the internet and are now preaching on it?
One more thing… as for this being fake/hoax or whatever… I PERSONALLY know people who have died or were near death due to COVID-19…
Andrew Coffield… 29 year old youth pastor was at death’s door last week. I have known Andrew all of his life, so this is not some celebrity claiming sickness… this is real life, folks. It was extremely critical, but he has since recovered and is home, praise the Lord!
My brother pastors a church in Illinois, and PESONALLY knows several pastors in his state with the virus, including his district superintendent…
My former pastor’s wife from the COOLJC passed last week from complications due to COVID-19…
A UPCI pastor’s wife from Escanaba, MI passed two days from COVID-19…
Two of my nieces work in a nursing home, and have witnessed several residents passing away from COVID-19…
And Pastor Gerald Guevara, longtime missionary to Spain is critical… I have heard him preach several times as Pastor Gerald is closely associated with our local church. He desperately needs our prayers as I write…
It grieves me to think that instead of all of this going back in forth… is it real or a hoax? Do we hibernate until it’s over, maybe erring on the side of caution, or just ignore it… why not join together as one Body in fasting and prayer and leave the bickering to the world?
If Bro. Spell wants to open the doors of the church house the consequences, if any, are his responsibility. If it is a mistake it is on him. And if my pastor preaches tomorrow online, he is doing what he feels is best for us. And I tell you frankly, with my compromised immune system and that of my mother I wouldn’t be there even if the doors were open.
That is NOT fear. That is wisdom.
In the final analysis what are we accomplishing here? Have any of you brought someone to the place of changing their opinion on COVID-19, and the services online deal based solely on your comments? I tell you true, I am not naïve enough to think that my sharing my thoughts this morning will change anyone’s mind…
So in the words of Rodney King, ‘why can’t we all just get along?’ The fact that this is a forum should not excuse the remarks made in these threads. We are one family… God’s family. Right or wrong, who are any of us to stand in judgment against another?
Evang.Benincasa
04-13-2020, 02:48 AM
First of all, I am not illiterate, so please do not speak to me as tho' I were... I understood completely what you posted.
As you have been on hiatus I guess you missed this post. I know before you even read it you won't agree with it, but here it is anyway...
You know something sis, I’ve been respectful to you.
But, what I’ve found out over the years of being on these forums since Jim Yohe called me up to join the discussion. Is that the biting, kicking, and hair pulling contest comes from you all wanting to be right. About whatever item is being defended. Parking lot preaching is now the new thing? How’d they do communion over the Internet? Anyway new converts was my point. Water baptisms and people in a altar slinging snot is done, like the dinner dishes. All because you all been sold a bill goods and you are all self regulating. Just like a cult. But the cult isn’t the Pentecostal religion. The cult is political, the cult is red white and blueski. You are more than willing to do as you are told. Is Tom Hanks and his wife die from their COVID 19? Oh I see. But Pentecostals are getting it and dying. No sis, I don’t agree with any of the show me your papers sir, or telling a church family to stay home when they don’t agree with the fear hysteria which has knocked Pentecost on its rear end. Seriously, I hope this stuff lasts a year, because the powers that be have a good thing going. It’s only been four weeks since you all been placed under house arrest and your religious leaders sent you home to watch them on television. You all don’t mind it. So let’s see how long the experiment can run it’s course?? I remember a thread on here where a bunch of guys were arguing about video in the sanctuary to tape a wedding. I wonder how many submitted to not having their wedding taped but now they are taping preaching from a pulpit in the sanctuary? Hey, this is religion and sadly it changes with every strong wind that blows. I got my own issues that are more real to me then COVID 19. One place I need to be MORE is with my church FAMILY. Again, I felt I’ve always been respectful to you sister, but it is what it is.
May the Lord continue to help you get through your own personal situations and be blessed in Jesus name
james34
04-13-2020, 11:10 AM
Obviously meeting in person is the ideal. "Virtual" Christianity is IMO a great thing. I have met with other saints online for "Church" many times. Many times I have been able to teach the awesome foundation truths of Christ to others online.
Live streaming Church is very good for the time in which we live. If local Church is weak on truth and Church far away is stronger on truth and you can be there online guess where I will be?
Church will one day, maybe later, maybe soon, be done underground. People need to develop a strategy for that.
Yes strategy is important, I mentioned to someone how a former pastor of mine, used to be i romania and Russia, and in Romania the church went underground, and they would have church in different buildings and homes. They would not announce the next service, you had to hear from God to know where it would be.
james34
04-13-2020, 11:18 AM
Since noone wants to speculate as to (how long temporary is)
What is too long?(before reopening public services )
Or....
Is a year too long as long as they say its necessary for public health and safety?
Amanah
04-13-2020, 11:41 AM
We need to reopen the country and get back to church very soon, within weeks not months. And if not then we either rebell against authority or sell our buildings and split up into home fellowship groups. I can't see us hiding away and watching our country be destroyed until they force a vaccine on us. But what do I know. I'm speaking from passion and anger rather than prayer.
coksiw
04-13-2020, 12:45 PM
We need to reopen the country and get back to church very soon, within weeks not months. And if not then we either rebell against authority or sell our buildings and split up into home fellowship groups. I can't see us hiding away and watching our country be destroyed until they force a vaccine on us. But what do I know. I'm speaking from passion and anger rather than prayer.
Probably a total of 90 days of massive lockdown, and then a gradual unlocking which most likely still ban large gatherings (e.g. more than 50), for another few months. Add to that the destruction on the economy that may make maintaining a building that hasn't been paid full a luxury.
diakonos
04-13-2020, 01:07 PM
They are saying that if things get back to “normal” after the expiration of the president’s order, things can get bad again in a few months. Possibly keeping people at home during voting in November.
coksiw
04-13-2020, 01:28 PM
They are saying that if things get back to “normal” after the expiration of the president’s order, things can get bad again in a few months. Possibly keeping people at home during voting in November.
Ebola, another virus in the same family of this one, is having small outbreaks again after two years. I am afraid until enough people get it to have herd immunity, this won't stop. Wuhan, which is easing lockdown right now, already have few hundreds new cases.
Esaias
04-13-2020, 05:59 PM
Imagine what things would be like if anyone founds out how many die from flu every year. We'd be locked down forever.
Jito463
04-13-2020, 06:54 PM
Since noone wants to speculate as to (how long temporary is)
What is too long?(before reopening public services )
Or....
Is a year too long as long as they say its necessary for public health and safety?
It's already been too long. The shutdown is already too much and too far.
They could have just issued an advisory, but instead they opted to decide for us. THEY know what's best for us; we need the nanny state to tell us what to do, or we'll be lost!
hometown guy
04-13-2020, 06:58 PM
It's already been too long. The shutdown is already too much and too far.
They could have just issued an advisory, but instead they opted to decide for us. THEY know what's best for us; we need the nanny state to tell us what to do, or we'll be lost!
Yup.. the first hour was too long.
I posted several days ago that Pastor Gerald Guevara of Spain was gravely ill with Covid-19... my pastor received word this morning that Bro. Gerald has gone home to be with the Lord.
Prayers for his family, and those who knew and loved him greatly appreciated.
Evang.Benincasa
04-14-2020, 07:56 AM
I know people are going to get upset with me. But that is nothing new. So here it goes. He had to have pre exsisting health conditions, but it is a thing right now to say that people died of COVID 19. It’s typical of hysteria, because thinking caps aren’t used. Look at the forest people, look at the forest.
Evang.Benincasa
04-14-2020, 07:58 AM
:highfive
Mike your new picture on your post is super cringy.
Evang.Benincasa
04-14-2020, 08:00 AM
Since noone wants to speculate as to (how long temporary is)
What is too long?(before reopening public services )
Or....
Is a year too long as long as they say its necessary for public health and safety?
Everyone in Fort Lauderdale is back on the streets.
hometown guy
04-14-2020, 10:24 AM
I know people are going to get upset with me. But that is nothing new. So here it goes. He had to have pre exsisting health conditions, but it is a thing right now to say that people died of COVID 19. It’s typical of hysteria, because thinking caps aren’t used. Look at the forest people, look at the forest.
I heard doctor birx herself say anyone with covid19 that dies it’s considered a covid19 death.. here is the link. I heard her say it live and was shocked.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/04/08/dr_birx_unlike_some_countries_if_someone_dies_with _covid-19_we_are_counting_that_as_a_covid-19_death.html
Amanah
04-14-2020, 10:54 AM
Open the economy up with the exception of 65+ and those with comorbidities .
hometown guy
04-14-2020, 11:04 AM
Open the economy up with the exception of 65+ and those with comorbidities .
Leave it as a strong recommendation only for the exceptions. My mom his high risk. But this virus ain’t going anywhere. She would spiritually die if she had to be locked down for 18-24 months
Amanah
04-14-2020, 11:14 AM
Leave it as a strong recommendation only for the exceptions. My mom his high risk. But this virus ain’t going anywhere. She would spiritually die if she had to be locked down for 18-24 months
Agree
coksiw
04-14-2020, 12:18 PM
Leave it as a strong recommendation only for the exceptions. My mom his high risk. But this virus ain’t going anywhere. She would spiritually die if she had to be locked down for 18-24 months
The numbers of daily cases is going down. They are already talking about lockdown easing. 18-24 months? where are those numbers coming from?
You guys are not visiting your mother at least with a mask for a in-person devotional or some?
coksiw
04-14-2020, 01:26 PM
I know people are going to get upset with me. But that is nothing new. So here it goes. He had to have pre exsisting health conditions, but it is a thing right now to say that people died of COVID 19. It’s typical of hysteria, because thinking caps aren’t used. Look at the forest people, look at the forest.
I knew him personally. No pre-existing condition I knew about, other than at this point he was just older.
hometown guy
04-14-2020, 01:34 PM
The numbers of daily cases is going down. They are already talking about lockdown easing. 18-24 months? where are those numbers coming from?
You guys are not visiting your mother at least with a mask for a in-person devotional or some?
The numbers are coming from the experts. They are saying that is the actual time frame for a potential vaccine therefore “ safe “. As soon as they lift the order it’s going rise in cases and deaths. I’m in Ventura county ca and just today they extended ours until at least May 15th. That’s full 2months already. Of course I visit my mom but she isn’t going to be locked up like a prisoner until it’s “ safe “. That’s house arrest and a recipe for depression. I’m 100% against the lock down period. It should have been only a recommendation like Sweden. We have been set way back now for any type of herd immunity.
hometown guy
04-14-2020, 01:36 PM
I knew him personally. No pre-existing condition I knew about, other than at this point he was just older.
People also die from the flu without pre existing condition but just like this virus is the exception not the rule.... also there could have been a health condition unknown to them.
coksiw
04-14-2020, 01:47 PM
The numbers are coming from the experts. They are saying that is the actual time frame for a potential vaccine therefore “ safe “. As soon as they lift the order it’s going rise in cases and deaths. I’m in Ventura county ca and just today they extended ours until at least May 15th. That’s full 2months already. Of course I visit my mom but she isn’t going to be locked up like a prisoner until it’s “ safe “. That’s house arrest and a recipe for depression. I’m 100% against the lock down period. It should have been only a recommendation like Sweden. We have been set way back now for any type of herd immunity.
Sorry to hear that. I definitely see elders getting depression because of isolation. In fact I know of a case right in my family after they took her driver license, and that wasn't as bad as this.
Regarding the Sweden recommendation, unfortunately, some governors are very controlling because they don't want to treat their people as responsible citizens, like fining them because of having drive-in church. I am thankful here in AZ we haven't seen madness from the politicians yet.
I know people are going to get upset with me. But that is nothing new. So here it goes. He had to have pre exsisting health conditions, but it is a thing right now to say that people died of COVID 19. It’s typical of hysteria, because thinking caps aren’t used. Look at the forest people, look at the forest.
I have ALWAYS tried to show you the utmost respect, but this post goes beyond the pale of Christian kindness!!!
I posted days ago that Bro. Gerald was dying, and asked for prayer... my post of his passing was NOT to solicit anything but perhaps a response of prayer for the family during this difficult time!!!
It is tragic anytime ANYONE dies, saved or heathen, but for the household of faith one would expect a little compassion, regardless of your views on the subject of how he died!!!
Upset, Elder? It doesn't even come close... I'm not upset... my disappointment meter is off the chart!!!
I thought better of you than this...
I knew him personally. No pre-existing condition I knew about, other than at this point he was just older.
People also die from the flu without pre existing condition but just like this virus is the exception not the rule.... also there could have been a health condition unknown to them.
Thank you...
Amanah
04-14-2020, 04:29 PM
Thank you...
Sis Barb. I'm sorry for this loss of a dear brother. This is a difficult time as we are seeing people we know falling ill to this virus. The pain is compounded by the division it is causing. I understand what you are feeling Sister.
n david
04-14-2020, 04:33 PM
There isn't always a pre-existing condition.
For some, it's the vent that kills them.
A minister I met years ago who recently died, was healthy until he contracted the disease and was put on a vent. From what I've been told by his family, once on the vent, his organs just shut down.
I read that the mortality rate for people put on a vent is somewhere between 80-90%. It's so high that Drs are re-thinking how soon patients are put on one and doing other treatments to try and keep them off the vent.
There isn't always a pre-existing condition.
For some, it's the vent that kills them.
A minister I met years ago who recently died, was healthy until he contracted the disease and was put on a vent. From what I've been told by his family, once on the vent, his organs just shut down.
I read that the mortality rate for people put on a vent is somewhere between 80-90%. It's so high that Drs are re-thinking how soon patients are put on one and doing other treatments to try and keep them off the vent.
This is so true...
The young man I mentioned the other day in a post, Andrew Coffield... 29 years old, in good health, youth pastor and new father, and was on a ventilator for over a week.
A week ago Friday he was critical, and we all believe it was the prayers of the faithful who touched the Throne! Andrew is home, praise the Lord!
Sis Barb. I'm sorry for this loss of a dear brother. This is a difficult time as we are seeing people we know falling ill to this virus. The pain is compounded by the division it is causing. I understand what you are feeling Sister.
Thank you for this...
I hate the division this has caused. We used to come to the forum and debate/discuss doctrinal issues and find a common ground.
It's not the same today... we are biting and devouring one another, and I hate it!!!
And I tell you true... if I thought for one second I was part of the problem rather than trying to offer a solution, it would break my heart. From the very beginning when I was 'Apologist' on FCF my heart has been for truth and God's people.
The time is too short for us to pick at each other... the hardest thing thus far in all of this is to see that there to be such animosity that we cannot grieve over the death of a saint.
Thank you for your kindness...
Evang.Benincasa
04-14-2020, 05:56 PM
I knew him personally. No pre-existing condition I knew about, other than at this point he was just older.
He had to have pre existing conditions. I think all of you are taking this thing and blowing it clear out of proportions. I’m sorry for the loss, pray for his family. But I’m in no way going to take this brother’s death and use it to add to the already growing circus. Missing the forest is the least of this situation.
Sister Barb, sorry that you think me a devil, but someone has to point out that the emperor has no clothes. He is full blown naked and rooster strutting.
Evang.Benincasa
04-14-2020, 06:03 PM
Thank you for this...
I hate the division this has caused. We used to come to the forum and debate/discuss doctrinal issues and find a common ground.
It's not the same today... we are biting and devouring one another, and I hate it!!!
And I tell you true... if I thought for one second I was part of the problem rather than trying to offer a solution, it would break my heart. From the very beginning when I was 'Apologist' on FCF my heart has been for truth and God's people.
The time is too short for us to pick at each other... the hardest thing thus far in all of this is to see that there to be such animosity that we cannot grieve over the death of a saint.
Thank you for your kindness...
I’m not biting anyone, there is something a wee bit worse going on than some virus. The division here is between those who smell a rat, and those who are trying to feed it to us. That’s all, I am not trying to be unfeeling, but every death can’t be attributed to this virus. Something is rotten in Denmark. It’s sure not me, and it sure not the cheese. I think cooler heads need to prevail, and a lot less pearl clutching.
He had to have pre existing conditions. I think all of you are taking this thing and blowing it clear out of proportions. I’m sorry for the loss, pray for his family. But I’m in no way going to take this brother’s death and use it to add to the already growing circus. Missing the forest is the least of this situation.
Sister Barb, sorry that you think me a devil, but someone has to point out that the emperor has no clothes. He is full blown naked and rooster strutting.
Sir, I never said I thought you were the devil. Please do not put words in my mouth. If I misjudged you I apologize, but your post did not indicate concern for the elder, his family, the church he pastors, or the host of people whom he loved or loved and respected both he and his ministry.
You keep insisting Bro. Gerald had pre-existing conditions... did you know him personally? Have you read his medical chart and know his history? How do YOU know he had a pre-existing condition that brought on his death?
Children and young people in good health are dying as well as old folks with ailments. I wish you would lay your judgment aside until you know the FACTS.
And for the record, if you would read my post to gain clarity instead of glancing over it in order to give a response you would see that I ONLY posted of his death to make others aware as they had been praying for him per my request. To accuse me of using Pastor Gerald's death in any way is just wrong.
I’m not biting anyone, there is something a wee bit worse going on than some virus. The division here is between those who smell a rat, and those who are trying to feed it to us. That’s all, I am not trying to be unfeeling, but every death can’t be attributed to this virus. Something is rotten in Denmark. It’s sure not me, and it sure not the cheese. I think cooler heads need to prevail, and a lot less pearl clutching.
True, every death is not Covid related, but when the doctor treating the man says that it is the cause, I trust his training and judgment.
Once again, you are not listening to me or anyone else. You have made up your mind that the facts as you see them are indeed facts.
I'm sorry you think I am feeding the rats or clutching at pearls or being a naive nellie... I am not.
OnTheFritz
04-14-2020, 08:03 PM
Sir, I never said I thought you were the devil. Please do not put words in my mouth. If I misjudged you I apologize, but your post did not indicate concern for the elder, his family, the church he pastors, or the host of people whom he loved or loved and respected both he and his ministry.
You keep insisting Bro. Gerald had pre-existing conditions... did you know him personally? Have you read his medical chart and know his history? How do YOU know he had a pre-existing condition that brought on his death?
Children and young people in good health are dying as well as old folks with ailments. I wish you would lay your judgment aside until you know the FACTS.
And for the record, if you would read my post to gain clarity instead of glancing over it in order to give a response you would see that I ONLY posted of his death to make others aware as they had been praying for him per my request. To accuse me of using Pastor Gerald's death in any way is just wrong.
True, every death is not Covid related, but when the doctor treating the man says that it is the cause, I trust his training and judgment.
Once again, you are not listening to me or anyone else. You have made up your mind that the facts as you see them are indeed facts.
I'm sorry you think I am feeding the rats or clutching at pearls or being a naive nellie... I am not.
I’m frankly baffled that you ever had respect for Bennie. He’s always been a bully and a know-it-all. This is all on brand for him. He simply knows better than anyone. Get used to it. :thumbsup.
Nicodemus1968
04-14-2020, 08:40 PM
I’m frankly baffled that you ever had respect for Bennie. He’s always been a bully and a know-it-all. This is all on brand for him. He simply knows better than anyone. Get used to it. :thumbsup.
How long have you and the evangelist been friends?
OnTheFritz
04-14-2020, 09:20 PM
How long have you and the evangelist been friends?
I’ve watched him at work on this forum for a decade or so. It was much better back before it turned into a tin-foil-hat nuthouse, but it’s still entertaining enough to drop by occasionally.
You all stay safe and take care of yourselves. :highfive
diakonos
04-14-2020, 09:48 PM
How long have you and the evangelist been friends?
:hanky
Freeindeed
04-15-2020, 06:03 AM
I was thinking about how many poor people are being excluded from watching "virtual church"?
People who can't afford internet are falling through the cracks while everyone else is arguing the pros and cons of live streaming.
Would Jesus really approve of His followers not preaching His gospel to the poor?
Amanah
04-15-2020, 06:05 AM
There are two things I read recently that are concerning. I am going to try to find the links.
*Harvard produced a report that says we are going to have to practice some form of social distancing until 2022.
https://www.foxnews.com/science/social-distancing-may-be-needed-on-and-off-until-2022-harvard-study?cmpid=prn_msn
*Facebook has censored online streaming church due to content.
here is a link, though not the account a read recently
https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/social-media-censorship
Amanah
04-15-2020, 06:07 AM
I was thinking about how many poor people are being excluded from watching "virtual church"?
People who can't afford internet are falling through the cracks while everyone else is arguing the pros and cons of live streaming.
Would Jesus really approve of His followers not preaching His gospel to the poor?
The has been a multitude of books written about house church over the past decade. Not to mention its in the bible.
Evang.Benincasa
04-15-2020, 06:17 AM
How long have you and the evangelist been friends?
The poster is in love, and can’t help but lurk all my postings for years.
This is evident by the poster’s own words to you. What is worse is that the poster wants everyone to know he/she is stalking me. :lol
Freeindeed
04-15-2020, 06:18 AM
The has been a multitude of books written about house church over the past decade. Not to mention its in the bible.
How would a lost person know where to find a house church? Someone who is desperate because of their life's circumstance looking for help can easily find a church.
Evang.Benincasa
04-15-2020, 06:21 AM
I’ve watched him at work on this forum for a decade or so. It was much better back before it turned into a tin-foil-hat nuthouse, but it’s still entertaining enough to drop by occasionally.
You all stay safe and take care of yourselves. :highfive
Read this one post.
Fritz, you have no life.
Amanah
04-15-2020, 06:24 AM
How would a lost person know where to find a house church? Someone who is desperate because of their life's circumstance looking for help can easily find a church.
if churches are meeting in homes, they would be sharing the gospel in their communities, and the Lord would lead hungry souls and the people sharing the gospel to meet.
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself;
but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. Jn 16:13
Amanah
04-15-2020, 06:58 AM
How would a lost person know where to find a house church? Someone who is desperate because of their life's circumstance looking for help can easily find a church.
I pray our churches can continue. At the same time, I'm mentally preparing for the possibility that they will not be able to.
My pastor and his wife are elderly, they have been quarantined for covid19.
We are currently renting a building and Pastor has mentioned a few times that unless the church keeps giving we can not continue to rent.
Many of our small flock are currently unemployed. Some are elderly and are not online.
We are being told that this lock down could continue in one form or another until we get a vaccine.
Online church won't cut it for the long term. I want to be mentally prepared for an alternative to life as it was.
coksiw
04-15-2020, 07:01 AM
How would a lost person know where to find a house church? Someone who is desperate because of their life's circumstance looking for help can easily find a church.
If the first century persecuted church did it, without buildings, large gatherings, google maps, or yelp, we can do it. They grew a lot during persecution.
Nicodemus1968
04-15-2020, 07:16 AM
There are two things I read recently that are concerning. I am going to try to find the links.
*Harvard produced a report that says we are going to have to practice some form of social distancing until 2022.
https://www.foxnews.com/science/social-distancing-may-be-needed-on-and-off-until-2022-harvard-study?cmpid=prn_msn
*Facebook has censored online streaming church due to content.
here is a link, though not the account a read recently
https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/social-media-censorship
It’s been said that some 92% of church goers are liking the new platform of the church. Think of it, they’re able to stay in their pj’s and listen to worship music, hear the preaching, and if the preaching gets too hard, we’ll then go ahead and tune to another “softer” preacher. As you stated now Amanah, they’re going to have the recorder on hearing what is being said. Why would church’s go for this platform? I’m not on social media, and I know a lot of church’s that are, my prayer is they would rethink that platform.
The Church I Pastor is Home Mission’s. It may be easier for us to stop the building meetings and go to the homes, rather than a large assembly. Yet, in my opinion, social media is not an alternative, and if your going on that platform then when they do censor your services, you better not complain.
Look what was told to Moses,
Exodus 18:17-26
And Moses' father in law said unto him, The thing that thou doest is not good. [18] Thou wilt surely wear away, both thou, and this people that is with thee: for this thing is too heavy for thee; thou art not able to perform it thyself alone.
[19] Hearken now unto my voice, I will give thee counsel, and God shall be with thee: Be thou for the people to God-ward, that thou mayest bring the causes unto God:
[20] And thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws, and shalt shew them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do.
[21] Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens:
[22] And let them judge the people at all seasons: and it shall be, that every great matter they shall bring unto thee, but every small matter they shall judge: so shall it be easier for thyself, and they shall bear the burden with thee.
[23] If thou shalt do this thing, and God command thee so , then thou shalt be able to endure, and all this people shall also go to their place in peace.
[24] So Moses hearkened to the voice of his father in law, and did all that he had said.
[25] And Moses chose able men out of all Israel, and made them heads over the people, rulers of thousands, rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens.
[26] And they judged the people at all seasons: the hard causes they brought unto Moses, but every small matter they judged themselves.
We all know it’s easier when the church is together in a building and the Pastor is able to preach to everyone at once. Yet, right now that’s not happening in some places, instead of compromising we take the leaders in the church and put them over small groups and have house church in several homes. The Pastor instead of doing it all himself can visit each group and show his support. They can pray, sing, teach/preach all in the home.
Evang.Benincasa
04-15-2020, 08:39 AM
Sir, I never said I thought you were the devil. Please do not put words in my mouth. If I misjudged you I apologize, but your post did not indicate concern for the elder, his family, the church he pastors, or the host of people whom he loved or loved and respected both he and his ministry.
You keep insisting Bro. Gerald had pre-existing conditions... did you know him personally? Have you read his medical chart and know his history? How do YOU know he had a pre-existing condition that brought on his death?
Children and young people in good health are dying as well as old folks with ailments. I wish you would lay your judgment aside until you know the FACTS.
And for the record, if you would read my post to gain clarity instead of glancing over it in order to give a response you would see that I ONLY posted of his death to make others aware as they had been praying for him per my request. To accuse me of using Pastor Gerald's death in any way is just wrong.
True, every death is not Covid related, but when the doctor treating the man says that it is the cause, I trust his training and judgment.
Once again, you are not listening to me or anyone else. You have made up your mind that the facts as you see them are indeed facts.
I'm sorry you think I am feeding the rats or clutching at pearls or being a naive nellie... I am not.
Sister, you mention that I don’t know the elder’s charts. I don’t, but this virus isn’t what people are making it out to be. What people see as good health isn’t. Obesitiy in this country isn’t taken into consideration. Some doctors don’t even look at fat percentages as a problem. Hey this elder could of been thin and slim. But, not EVERYTHING is COVID 19 related. I know you see that, and mentioned that in your postings to me. I’m trying to be adamant about the fact that our media “mainstream” and not mainstream are causing panic. In Broward we have COVID 19 ghosts all over the place. When it isn’t even there. Yes, there are legit cases, but we are being sold a bill of goods. The elder? His family? He passed, he went to be with the Lord. That is totally a separate issue from what we are discussing here. Wether he died from natural causes or was eaten by cannibals in Borneo. Both would be sad, both would be the cause of the loss. But what is interesting is that we are getting upset over the cause of death. Because afterall that is the focus of the day. We have had elders who’ve died, we prayed for their family with heartfelt condlances. But their cause of death wasn’t important. Now it is? Sister, you aren’t funded by George Soros. But, this is what hysteria does to people. We are told that non Jewish Germans and Poles captured then marched off Jews to the camps. Sadly it was German Jews and Polish Jews who helped the powers at the time herd the Jews to incarceration.
The Apostle Paul had his troubles not just from Religious leadership of the Judeans. But from what he called false brethren.
We need so badly not to take the bait, not to accept everything being piped to us through the sewer pipe of the media. But, when we hear of a sick and dying saint now, we immediately go COVID 19?
You pearl clutching? I’m speaking in general with all those who are repeating the tune of the Pied Piper. Sister I appreciate you, and I’m sorry you think I’m unfeeling towards families of the dead. I’m not going to apologize for pointing out that we are being conditioned like the proverbial Pavlov’s Dog, and right now the foam is getting pretty thick.
hometown guy
04-15-2020, 09:51 AM
Sir, I never said I thought you were the devil. Please do not put words in my mouth. If I misjudged you I apologize, but your post did not indicate concern for the elder, his family, the church he pastors, or the host of people whom he loved or loved and respected both he and his ministry.
You keep insisting Bro. Gerald had pre-existing conditions... did you know him personally? Have you read his medical chart and know his history? How do YOU know he had a pre-existing condition that brought on his death?
Children and young people in good health are dying as well as old folks with ailments. I wish you would lay your judgment aside until you know the FACTS.
And for the record, if you would read my post to gain clarity instead of glancing over it in order to give a response you would see that I ONLY posted of his death to make others aware as they had been praying for him per my request. To accuse me of using Pastor Gerald's death in any way is just wrong.
True, every death is not Covid related, but when the doctor treating the man says that it is the cause, I trust his training and judgment.
Once again, you are not listening to me or anyone else. You have made up your mind that the facts as you see them are indeed facts.
I'm sorry you think I am feeding the rats or clutching at pearls or being a naive nellie... I am not.
Yes we know you are passive aggressive. Act innocent but try to chop down anyone that disagrees with you in a nice way. This is the norm for your posting..... you want to claim “ facts “ yet you have no facts of “ children “ dying in the United States. I would be surprised if there was even 20 minors that have died but you claim “ facts “ that they are dying. No proof, no facts but what you say is the gospel because like every other post you make, you know everything.
OnTheFritz
04-15-2020, 10:29 AM
Read this one post.
Fritz, you have no life.
This is what narcissism looks like, folks. I drop by occasionally and make a comment, while this guy seems to do nothing but participate in this forum. I have no life, he says. :thumbsup
I single you out because you are everywhere in every thread doing your thing. Evangelism must be your side hustle.
And to be fair, some of the other people that I could comment on are so far gone that I don't even bother. Esaias, for instance, is already on another planet. I think it's nice that you all keep him around though. It is entertaining. :happydance
Yes we know you are passive aggressive. Act innocent but try to chop down anyone that disagrees with you in a nice way. This is the norm for your posting..... you want to claim “ facts “ yet you have no facts of “ children “ dying in the United States. I would be surprised if there was even 20 minors that have died but you claim “ facts “ that they are dying. No proof, no facts but what you say is the gospel because like every other post you make, you know everything.
You sir, do NOT have a clue about me! I do not try to chop anyone down who disagrees with me... this is absurd!
Bro. Beni and I have a strong misunderstanding... neither one of us is getting what the other is saying.
But you want facts about children... here's one from my home state...
https://www.mlive.com/coronavirus/2020/04/michigan-toddler-spiked-107-degree-fever-with-coronavirus-battle-lasting-forever.html?utm_campaign=mlivedotcom_sf&utm
I'm sorry, truly sorry if you think I am a meanie... you are wrong.
hometown guy
04-15-2020, 10:43 AM
You sir, do NOT have a clue about me! I do not try to chop anyone down who disagrees with me... this is absurd!
Bro. Beni and I have a strong misunderstanding... neither one of us is getting what the other is saying.
But you want facts about children... here's one from my home state...
https://www.mlive.com/coronavirus/2020/04/michigan-toddler-spiked-107-degree-fever-with-coronavirus-battle-lasting-forever.html?utm_campaign=mlivedotcom_sf&utm
I'm sorry, truly sorry if you think I am a meanie... you are wrong.
So one child on May 30th??!! That’s news because it’s rare. I read where a cat got it too so should I start saying that there is cats all over getting the virus??? It’s rare for kids to die from this... I specifically didn’t ask you for “ 1 example “ because just like you way over here in California I read about that same exact story... why??? Because it’s rare and the media is pushing us to think that.
Evang.Benincasa
04-15-2020, 11:10 AM
This is what narcissism looks like, folks. I drop by occasionally and make a comment, while this guy seems to do nothing but participate in this forum. I have no life, he says. :thumbsup
I single you out because you are everywhere in every thread doing your thing. Evangelism must be your side hustle.
And to be fair, some of the other people that I could comment on are so far gone that I don't even bother. Esaias, for instance, is already on another planet. I think it's nice that you all keep him around though. It is entertaining. :happydance
Esaias? Interesting how you sectioned him out. Fritz, you have no life. Because you make claims about others but can’t seem to get them out of your mind. You say you don’t post here much and that the forum gets your attention rarely. But you lurk here. You visit and read away. Fritz, you are the person you accuse others of being. You would never stand toe to toe with anyone, and give them the pablum you puke here. So, keep posting, you always reveal how much of a sociopath you really are. Get a life, because you don’t have one. Never will.
So one child on May 30th??!! That’s news because it’s rare. I read where a cat got it too so should I start saying that there is cats all over getting the virus??? It’s rare for kids to die from this... I specifically didn’t ask you for “ 1 example “ because just like you way over here in California I read about that same exact story... why??? Because it’s rare and the media is pushing us to think that.
What is your problem with me?
Is it because I am a woman with an opinion?
Several days ago I answered someone's post, don't recall who... Bro. Beni had been on vacation or whatever, came back, and we were in discussion.
So what is the deal?
People disagree all the time... that's life.
Do I feel he was missing the point all over the place of where I was going, and making light of the death of an elder...yes, but I said so TO him, hopefully without being condescending or disrespectful. If I was, Bro. Beni, I apologize.
See, that's the problem with internet discussion. Because we are behind a monitor or phone we feel free to make things personal. Bro. Ben and I have not said anything online we wouldn't say if he and his wife were sitting across the table at my favorite diner... if it were open.
Your posts to me have been personal... so what's your beef with me?
If I'm bugging you because I am disagreeing with you, ignore me. But let's try and keep it civil... please.
consapente89
04-15-2020, 12:33 PM
How long have you and the evangelist been friends?
Y’all go back a ways?
OnTheFritz
04-15-2020, 01:02 PM
Esaias? Interesting how you sectioned him out. Fritz, you have no life. Because you make claims about others but can’t seem to get them out of your mind. You say you don’t post here much and that the forum gets your attention rarely. But you lurk here. You visit and read away. Fritz, you are the person you accuse others of being. You would never stand toe to toe with anyone, and give them the pablum you puke here. So, keep posting, you always reveal how much of a sociopath you really are. Get a life, because you don’t have one. Never will.
Here comes the lashing out part. Typical hateful attitude masked as righteous indignation. I must've hit a nerve. Ok, brother - you carry on and I hope you get over your anger issues someday soon. :thumbsup
hometown guy
04-15-2020, 02:17 PM
What is your problem with me?
Is it because I am a woman with an opinion?
Several days ago I answered someone's post, don't recall who... Bro. Beni had been on vacation or whatever, came back, and we were in discussion.
So what is the deal?
People disagree all the time... that's life.
Do I feel he was missing the point all over the place of where I was going, and making light of the death of an elder...yes, but I said so TO him, hopefully without being condescending or disrespectful. If I was, Bro. Beni, I apologize.
See, that's the problem with internet discussion. Because we are behind a monitor or phone we feel free to make things personal. Bro. Ben and I have not said anything online we wouldn't say if he and his wife were sitting across the table at my favorite diner... if it were open.
Your posts to me have been personal... so what's your beef with me?
If I'm bugging you because I am disagreeing with you, ignore me. But let's try and keep it civil... please.
Yes you must be right it’s because your women...lol yah accuse me of being bigot and then ask me to get along and talk civil.... you see why I say your passive aggressive..... you dig and then try to end it so sweet and innocent.....
n david
04-15-2020, 03:11 PM
Yes you must be right it’s because your women...lol yah accuse me of being bigot and then ask me to get along and talk civil.... you see why I say your passive aggressive..... you dig and then try to end it so sweet and innocent.....
https://media.giphy.com/media/a0FuPjiLZev4c/giphy.gif
I do my share of arguing with others, but I'm reading through the posts and don't understand your responses to Barb.
Also, asking if your absurd posts were due to her gender is referring to misogyny, not bigotry.
hometown guy
04-15-2020, 03:43 PM
https://media.giphy.com/media/a0FuPjiLZev4c/giphy.gif
I do my share of arguing with others, but I'm reading through the posts and don't understand your responses to Barb.
Also, asking if your absurd posts were due to her gender is referring to misogyny, not bigotry.
Lol thanks for the correction and keep reading her post through your rose colored glasses
diakonos
04-15-2020, 04:28 PM
What is your problem with me?
Is it because I am a woman with an opinion?
You know that’s not slowed around here, right?
Unless you’re in agreement.
diakonos
04-15-2020, 04:28 PM
Yes you must be right it’s because your women...lol yah accuse me of being bigot and then ask me to get along and talk civil.... you see why I say your passive aggressive..... you dig and then try to end it so sweet and innocent.....
Leave an old lady alone already
Leave an old lady alone already
LOL I love this! :heeheehee
The 'because I'm a woman' was meant in jest... sorry for anyone who misunderstood.
Yes you must be right it’s because your women...lol yah accuse me of being bigot and then ask me to get along and talk civil.... you see why I say your passive aggressive..... you dig and then try to end it so sweet and innocent.....
That was meant as a lame joke... sorry for the misunderstanding.
diakonos
04-15-2020, 04:48 PM
LOL I love this! :heeheehee
The 'because I'm a woman' was meant in jest... sorry for anyone who misunderstood.
I know. :)
votivesoul
04-15-2020, 11:23 PM
Here comes the lashing out part. Typical hateful attitude masked as righteous indignation. I must've hit a nerve. Ok, brother - you carry on and I hope you get over your anger issues someday soon. :thumbsup
Here are your last THIRTEEN posts going all the way back to June 2019, all negatively addressed to or dealing with Evangelist Benincasa, where you more than once admit to coming here just to stalk him out:
Starting from this thread:
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1586106&postcount=112
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1586094&postcount=106
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1586045&postcount=92
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1586039&postcount=90
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1577215&postcount=61
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1568416&postcount=46
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1568230&postcount=42
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1567789&postcount=26
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1567785&postcount=24
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1567781&postcount=22
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1567778&postcount=14
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1567777&postcount=21
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1565844&postcount=26
But you don't have a problem??? You have clearly projected onto Evangelist Benincasa much, most, or even perhaps all of your unresolved anger and loathing toward yourself and whoever allegedly spiritually abused you to make you leave the faith.
Why not do everyone here a favor, and take off, all permanent-like?
hometown guy
04-15-2020, 11:34 PM
Here are your last THIRTEEN posts going all the way back to June 2019, all negatively addressed to or dealing with Evangelist Benincasa, where you more than once admit to coming here just to stalk him out:
Starting from this thread:
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1586106&postcount=112
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1586094&postcount=106
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1586045&postcount=92
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1586039&postcount=90
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1577215&postcount=61
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1568416&postcount=46
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1568230&postcount=42
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1567789&postcount=26
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1567785&postcount=24
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1567781&postcount=22
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1567778&postcount=14
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1567777&postcount=21
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1565844&postcount=26
But you don't have a problem??? You have clearly projected onto Evangelist Benincasa much, most, or even perhaps all of your unresolved anger and loathing toward yourself and whoever allegedly spiritually abused you to make you leave the faith.
Why not do everyone here a favor, and take off, all permanent-like?
Ouch that will leave a mark!
hometown guy
04-15-2020, 11:36 PM
That was meant as a lame joke... sorry for the misunderstanding.
Gotcha
Evang.Benincasa
04-16-2020, 06:32 AM
Here comes the lashing out part. Typical hateful attitude masked as righteous indignation. I must've hit a nerve. Ok, brother - you carry on and I hope you get over your anger issues someday soon. :thumbsup
Typical trolling, stalks posters he/she is in love with. Uses psychological projection to build a case. Has their lunch served back to them. Then, they leave with a refrain “you Mad Bro!?”
Fritz look in the mirror. Your neon L is brightly flashing. :lol
Evang.Benincasa
04-16-2020, 06:39 AM
Here are your last THIRTEEN posts going all the way back to June 2019, all negatively addressed to or dealing with Evangelist Benincasa, where you more than once admit to coming here just to stalk him out:
Starting from this thread:
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1586106&postcount=112
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1586094&postcount=106
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1586045&postcount=92
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1586039&postcount=90
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1577215&postcount=61
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1568416&postcount=46
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1568230&postcount=42
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1567789&postcount=26
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1567785&postcount=24
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1567781&postcount=22
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1567778&postcount=14
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1567777&postcount=21
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1565844&postcount=26
But you don't have a problem??? You have clearly projected onto Evangelist Benincasa much, most, or even perhaps all of your unresolved anger and loathing toward yourself and whoever allegedly spiritually abused you to make you leave the faith.
Why not do everyone here a favor, and take off, all permanent-like?
WOW! I missed this post.
Talk about a man who pays close attention to what’s going on.
My brother, I tip my hat to your skill set. :tiphat
Michael The Disciple
04-16-2020, 06:50 AM
Here are your last THIRTEEN posts going all the way back to June 2019, all negatively addressed to or dealing with Evangelist Benincasa, where you more than once admit to coming here just to stalk him out:
Starting from this thread:
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1586106&postcount=112
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1586094&postcount=106
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1586045&postcount=92
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1586039&postcount=90
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1577215&postcount=61
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1568416&postcount=46
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1568230&postcount=42
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1567789&postcount=26
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1567785&postcount=24
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1567781&postcount=22
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1567778&postcount=14
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1567777&postcount=21
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1565844&postcount=26
But you don't have a problem??? You have clearly projected onto Evangelist Benincasa much, most, or even perhaps all of your unresolved anger and loathing toward yourself and whoever allegedly spiritually abused you to make you leave the faith.
Why not do everyone here a favor, and take off, all permanent-like?
Why not take Doms last 75 posts addressed to me and examine them? Plenty of them where I am mocked not even addressed to me. See if there might be some negativity doing on there?
Or perhaps go back 100 posts. You can find more than 13 hits just in a single thread.
Evang.Benincasa
04-16-2020, 07:49 AM
Why not take Doms last 75 posts addressed to me and examine them? Plenty of them where I am mocked not even addressed to me. See if there might be some negativity doing on there?
Or perhaps go back 100 posts. You can find more than 13 hits just in a single thread.
Mike, you and I have been at it constantly since PalTalk.
You didn’t start threads in my honor? Really? Mike, you are man with a self inflated religious view of himself and his ability. When you are critiqued you get upset. Because, after all you are perfect. We go way back, and for you to cry wee wee wee all the way home. It’s a bit too late. You have drawn first blood with me long ago skipper.
Whoop Harted
04-16-2020, 08:17 AM
Mike, you and I have been at it constantly since PalTalk.
You didn’t start threads in my honor? Really? Mike, you are man with a self inflated religious view of himself and his ability. When you are critiqued you get upset. Because, after all you are perfect. We go way back, and for you to cry wee wee wee all the way home. It’s a bit too late. You have drawn first blood with me long ago skipper.
bwahahahahaha
The Skipper part got to me there!
He really does look like the skipper on gilligans island!!!
It took me a minute to catch it.
Evang.Benincasa
04-16-2020, 08:19 AM
bwahahahahaha
The Skipper part got to me there!
He really does look like the skipper on gilligans island!!!
It took me a minute to catch it.
:heeheehee
Michael The Disciple
04-16-2020, 08:29 AM
Mike, you and I have been at it constantly since PalTalk.
You didn’t start threads in my honor? Really? Mike, you are man with a self inflated religious view of himself and his ability. When you are critiqued you get upset. Because, after all you are perfect. We go way back, and for you to cry wee wee wee all the way home. It’s a bit too late. You have drawn first blood with me long ago skipper.
Blessings Dom.
mfblume
04-16-2020, 09:47 AM
Here is the deal, even if the bldg. is closed, since we are the church, there is nothing stopping up from joining with family and friends and "having" church.
If anything, this is a wake up call to realize that church is not the building.
EXACTLY
The church is the PEOPLE.. the CONGREGATION who congregated together with Christ after having answered the call.
Nicodemus1968
04-16-2020, 11:53 AM
Blessings Dom.
You have to come with more Christian swear words Mike. :heeheehee
hometown guy
04-16-2020, 11:55 AM
EXACTLY
The church is the PEOPLE.. the CONGREGATION who congregated together with Christ after having answered the call.
Well in California going to people’s home is illegal apparently.... we can have up to 7 essential staff at the church building To operate a streaming service but technically you can not have anyone at your home that does not live with you ( including family ) ... a church up north from us were doing small group house church at different location and got the cops call on them and they made the disperse.
Esaias
04-16-2020, 12:05 PM
Well in California going people at home is illegal apparently.... we can have up to 7 essential staff at the church building To operate a streaming service but technically you can have anyone at your home that does not live with you... a church up north from us were doing small group house church at different location and got the cops call on them and they made the disperse.
Sure glad us Americans are so much smarter than those stubborn rebellious tin foil hat types in Soviet Russia and Communist China that used to meet illegally in clear violation of the law.
Michael The Disciple
04-16-2020, 12:59 PM
You have to come with more Christian swear words Mike. :heeheehee
Please explain?
mfblume
04-16-2020, 01:05 PM
Blessing of greenscreen and one person (me) doing the work for it all. lol. (I have NONE of that furniture).
(Who needs staff?)
consapente89
04-16-2020, 02:44 PM
Well in California going to people’s home is illegal apparently.... we can have up to 7 essential staff at the church building To operate a streaming service but technically you can not have anyone at your home that does not live with you ( including family ) ... a church up north from us were doing small group house church at different location and got the cops call on them and they made the disperse.
Terrible!
votivesoul
04-16-2020, 03:22 PM
Why not take Doms last 75 posts addressed to me and examine them? Plenty of them where I am mocked not even addressed to me. See if there might be some negativity doing on there?
Or perhaps go back 100 posts. You can find more than 13 hits just in a single thread.
Mike,
I know there is tension and sometimes worse between you and Evangelist Benincasa. But the situation here is different. You and he both post regularly on any number of subjects and interact with other members besides yourselves, because the reason you come here is that you both are interested in sharing in the fellowship that exists here at AFF. Not just going toe to toe with one another.
On the Fritz hasn't come here over the course of nearly a year and has not posted anything, except to rag on Evangelist Benincasa the whole time. Fritz has made it the sole purpose of attending AFF at all.
And as far as I have seen, I haven't seen any reported posts or requests from you about your interactions with Evangelist Benincasa. When you and he get into it, it seems you have in the past either contended with him openly or, as of late, it seems you are content to simply bless him. In which case, if you merely desire to bless him, and not report him, what would you have an admin do?
diakonos
04-16-2020, 03:33 PM
Self moderating forum, people.
OnTheFritz
04-16-2020, 03:49 PM
Here are your last THIRTEEN posts going all the way back to June 2019, all negatively addressed to or dealing with Evangelist Benincasa, where you more than once admit to coming here just to stalk him out:
Starting from this thread:
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1586106&postcount=112
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1586094&postcount=106
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1586045&postcount=92
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1586039&postcount=90
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1577215&postcount=61
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1568416&postcount=46
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1568230&postcount=42
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1567789&postcount=26
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1567785&postcount=24
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1567781&postcount=22
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1567778&postcount=14
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1567777&postcount=21
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=1565844&postcount=26
But you don't have a problem??? You have clearly projected onto Evangelist Benincasa much, most, or even perhaps all of your unresolved anger and loathing toward yourself and whoever allegedly spiritually abused you to make you leave the faith.
Why not do everyone here a favor, and take off, all permanent-like?
Meh, who's projecting now? Self-loathing? Anger? Naw - just amusement. And I haven't left the faith. I have just left the version of it with all the weirdos. You guys are a hoot.
You'll also notice in the last few posts that that ol' Bennie includes some weird sexual overtones to his posts. I "love" him, and I'm "stalking" him. He's creeping me out a bit, honestly. But, whatever makes him feel special, I guess.
Yeah, I probably will bow out. Not sure who I am trying to convince at this point. Wash your hands, and keep those foil hats on real tight. :thumbsup
votivesoul
04-16-2020, 04:02 PM
Meh, who's projecting now? Self-loathing? Anger? Naw - just amusement. And I haven't left the faith. I have just left the version of it with all the weirdos. You guys are a hoot.
You'll also notice in the last few posts that that ol' Bennie includes some weird sexual overtones to his posts. I "love" him, and I'm "stalking" him. He's creeping me out a bit, honestly. But, whatever makes him feel special, I guess.
Yeah, I probably will bow out. Not sure who I am trying to convince at this point. Wash your hands, and keep those foil hats on real tight. :thumbsup
You come here for nearly a year to, at your own admission, check up on someone you claim is an abuser and you do it only for the sheer amusement of it all? So you get amused when you watch someone you believe is an abuser abusing people?
Whatever wall you used to be on, you have fallen off of it.
Nicodemus1968
04-16-2020, 05:09 PM
Please explain?
When you write "Blessing Dom" it makes me think your thinking something else more vulgar, while writing that statement. When I saw that this morning, I thought of this comedian that has a list of "christian" curse words.
Nicodemus1968
04-16-2020, 05:11 PM
Well in California going to people’s home is illegal apparently.... we can have up to 7 essential staff at the church building To operate a streaming service but technically you can not have anyone at your home that does not live with you ( including family ) ... a church up north from us were doing small group house church at different location and got the cops call on them and they made the disperse.
Sorry to hear that. Do you know what they're doing now?
Michael The Disciple
04-16-2020, 05:14 PM
When you write "Blessing Dom" it makes me think your thinking something else more vulgar, while writing that statement. When I saw that this morning, I thought of this comedian that has a list of "christian" curse words.
I never heard of Christian curse words till Dom started on it the other day. It would be a sin would it not?
Matt 5:8
Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God.
Michael The Disciple
04-16-2020, 05:19 PM
Mike,
I know there is tension and sometimes worse between you and Evangelist Benincasa. But the situation here is different. You and he both post regularly on any number of subjects and interact with other members besides yourselves, because the reason you come here is that you both are interested in sharing in the fellowship that exists here at AFF. Not just going toe to toe with one another.
On the Fritz hasn't come here over the course of nearly a year and has not posted anything, except to rag on Evangelist Benincasa the whole time. Fritz has made it the sole purpose of attending AFF at all.
And as far as I have seen, I haven't seen any reported posts or requests from you about your interactions with Evangelist Benincasa. When you and he get into it, it seems you have in the past either contended with him openly or, as of late, it seems you are content to simply bless him. In which case, if you merely desire to bless him, and not report him, what would you have an admin do?
Peace and love Aaron. We will work it out.
Freeindeed
04-16-2020, 08:29 PM
"Mendocino County, a coastal county with a population of 86,000, banned churches from singing while recording online worship services, unless the individuals sang from home."
https://www.foxnews.com/us/coronavirus-california-church-online-order-county-worship-limit
Esaias
04-16-2020, 09:41 PM
"Mendocino County, a coastal county with a population of 86,000, banned churches from singing while recording online worship services, unless the individuals sang from home."
https://www.foxnews.com/us/coronavirus-california-church-online-order-county-worship-limit
"Yep, nothing to see here, boys and girls. Just common sense health control, that's all. Move along now, before something real bad happens to ya... KNOWHUTTAMEAN?"
hometown guy
04-16-2020, 09:57 PM
Sorry to hear that. Do you know what they're doing now?
I don’t think it stoped them they just are trying to do it at certain places less likely to get called on.
Evang.Benincasa
04-17-2020, 06:24 AM
I never heard of Christian curse words till Dom started on it the other day. It would be a sin would it not?
Matt 5:8
Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God.
Well, Mike you don’t have a pure heart when you do your supposed “bless you Dom.” But, you never had a problem with hypocrisy.
Evang.Benincasa
04-17-2020, 06:39 AM
Meh, who's projecting now? Self-loathing? Anger? Naw - just amusement. And I haven't left the faith. I have just left the version of it with all the weirdos. You guys are a hoot.
You'll also notice in the last few posts that that ol' Bennie includes some weird sexual overtones to his posts. I "love" him, and I'm "stalking" him. He's creeping me out a bit, honestly. But, whatever makes him feel special, I guess.
Yeah, I probably will bow out. Not sure who I am trying to convince at this point. Wash your hands, and keep those foil hats on real tight. :thumbsup
Well, Aaron, there you go. Once again OTF proves their narcissism knows no bounds. :lol
Now, for you OTF, you nick is apropo, because it fits your behavior. Sexual? You are not only a troll, but one who is a pervert. Wasn’t me who started a thread about a Ex Pentecostal daughter’s tell all book about her father issues, and how it drove her to a life of perversion. That was you. OTF, your life must be a head on collision. But, you want us to believe you are so above everyone else. When you are the opposite. Screwed up, angry ex Christian wanting so badly to take down another windmill. Get help, because this ain’t working for you.
Evang.Benincasa
04-17-2020, 06:41 AM
"Mendocino County, a coastal county with a population of 86,000, banned churches from singing while recording online worship services, unless the individuals sang from home."
https://www.foxnews.com/us/coronavirus-california-church-online-order-county-worship-limit
Didn’t William Branham say California was going into the sea?
n david
04-17-2020, 01:02 PM
"Mendocino County, a coastal county with a population of 86,000, banned churches from singing while recording online worship services, unless the individuals sang from home."
https://www.foxnews.com/us/coronavirus-california-church-online-order-county-worship-limit
First, this isn't targeting churches only:
"""Those operations necessary for venues, such as concert halls, auditoriums, churches, temples, and playhouses, to enable a recorded and/or live-streamed event to be shared virtually with the public, with the following limitations:"""
The reason for the part the news is focusing on is pretty dumb though...
"""Four individuals only were allowed to record from one place and "no singing or use of wind instruments, harmonicas or other instruments that could spread COVID-19 through projected droplets shall be permitted unless the recording of the event is done at one’s residence,"""
Also the DOJ is working on these kind of overreaching orders. This won't last
Freeindeed
04-17-2020, 03:43 PM
Didn’t William Branham say California was going into the sea?
He also prophesied that the second coming of Jesus would be in 1977!
Freeindeed
04-17-2020, 03:49 PM
First, this isn't targeting churches only:
"""Those operations necessary for venues, such as concert halls, auditoriums, churches, temples, and playhouses, to enable a recorded and/or live-streamed event to be shared virtually with the public, with the following limitations:"""
The reason for the part the news is focusing on is pretty dumb though...
"""Four individuals only were allowed to record from one place and "no singing or use of wind instruments, harmonicas or other instruments that could spread COVID-19 through projected droplets shall be permitted unless the recording of the event is done at one’s residence,"""
Also the DOJ is working on these kind of overreaching orders. This won't last
Music is unsanitary. Worse than a wet market. Ban it altogether!
Evang.Benincasa
04-17-2020, 05:22 PM
He also prophesied that the second coming of Jesus would be in 1977!
I’d love to hear that tape.
Do you happen to know if he said it on a tape?0
Jito463
04-17-2020, 07:56 PM
He also prophesied that the second coming of Jesus would be in 1977!
What a coincidence, that's the year I was born....... :hmmm
:heeheehee
Nicodemus1968
04-18-2020, 05:42 AM
He also prophesied that the second coming of Jesus would be in 1977!
*According to some on here.*
That’s not what makes him wrong. He was just mistaken like the disciples, he felt it was for his time as well. So, I don’t know if we count that as a false prophesy.
Freeindeed
04-18-2020, 10:59 AM
I’d love to hear that tape.
Do you happen to know if he said it on a tape?0
I couldn't find a tape, but there was a book about his prophecy.
http://en.believethesign.com/index.php/1977
Freeindeed
04-18-2020, 11:27 AM
What a coincidence, that's the year I was born....... :hmmm
:heeheehee
:toofunny
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