What's The Difference ?

[Bishop1]

WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE ?

What Is The Difference Between

Open Sin
VS
Hidden Sin ?

Evangelistly Speaking
VS
Plain Out Lying ?

Giving More Than Possible
VS
Giving 110% ?

A Sexual Indescretion
VS
Plain Out Adultery ?

Dating A Woman While She Is STILL Legally Married
VS
Dating Someone Else's Wife ?

Watching T V
VS
Watching a Video ?

Watching A Video
VS
Watching A Movie ?

Tithing On Net Income
VS
Stealing ?

" L.W."
VS
" R.N." ?

" B.B."
VS
" F.H." ?

Or
" G.G. " telling everyone at the Mississippi Campmeeting
That " BORAT " Has Just Recieved The 'HOLY GHOST'
VS
Being A FALSE PROPHET ?


{just curious I guess}
Bishop1
:beatdeadhorse

[Steadfast]

In all fairness, the 'G.G.' you speak of was not intentionally lying but responding to a man that, from all outward appearances, received the Holy Ghost just like many others that same night. Yes, he did talk in tongues... albeit one he created to sound like a spiritual manifestation.

He, 'Borat' himself, was the only 'liar' in that situation. My friend, "G. G.", was just a mistaken individual that was swayed by the same visible and audible elements that 99% of us would have interpreted as one receiving the Holy Ghost. It's easy to say 'where was his discernment' but if it had been a stranger in most any of our local Churches intent on 'duping' us the incredibly vast majority would have rejoiced at what they perceived as someone getting the Holy Ghost.

I'd venture to say this isn't the first time any of us have seen the Devil speak in tongues!

To that end, there IS a magnanimous difference.

[philjones]

Thank You for such an on point defense of OUR friend, GG!

[Ron]

Amen. Thank you for putting it that terms.
How many of us hit the ball out of the park every time? How many of us have never missed it at any time?

[rgcraig]

Wow, Bishop thought provoking questions!

What is the difference in those?

There is no difference.

If there ever is a seemingly difference, it's only because someone is trying to justify that there is a difference.

[aegsm76]

I think it is far beneath you to try and relate this. It makes me wonder if you have some other "axe to grind", with GG.
If you can say that you have never been deceived by anyone, then you could say this with a clear conscience. If you have been, then you need to look in the mirror and read your statements.
As someone who has been at FCF since the opening, I am disappointed at your post.

[Bishop1]

I think it is far beneath you to try and relate this. It makes me wonder if you have some other "axe to grind", with GG.
If you can say that you have never been deceived by anyone, then you could say this with a clear conscience. If you have been, then you need to look in the mirror and read your statements.
As someone who has been at FCF since the opening, I am disappointed at your post.


OH NO !

{Apparantly I Have Stepped On Some Toes}

I HAVE NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO AXE TO GRIND

EXCEPT

ACTS 2:38 !



AS A MATTER OF FACT

I LIKE " G.G. "

BUT

MY POINT IS

WHERE IS OUR

D I S C E R N M E N T !


Bishop1
:beatdeadhorse

[Bishop1]

Wow,

Bishop thought provoking questions!

What is the difference in those?

There is no difference.

If there ever is a seemingly difference,
it's only because someone is trying to
justify
that there is a difference.





Tat's The Point I Am Trying To Make !

Bishop1
:beatdeadhorse

[Bishop1]

In all fairness, the 'G.G.' you speak of was not intentionally lying but responding to a man that, from all outward appearances, received the Holy Ghost just like many others that same night. Yes, he did talk in tongues... albeit one he created to sound like a spiritual manifestation.

He, 'Borat' himself, was the only 'liar' in that situation. My friend, "G. G.", was just a mistaken individual that was swayed by the same visible and audible elements that 99% of us would have interpreted as one receiving the Holy Ghost. It's easy to say 'where was his discernment' but if it had been a stranger in most any of our local Churches intent on 'duping' us the incredibly vast majority would have rejoiced at what they perceived as someone getting the Holy Ghost.

I'd venture to say this isn't the first time any of us have seen the Devil speak in tongues!

To that end, there IS a magnanimous difference.





MY MY MY

HOW QUICKLY

WE DEFEND OUR FRIENDS

BUT

LET'S EXPLORE

THE OTHER QUESTIONS RAISED

AS IF WE ARE OPEN MINDED AND HONEST HEARTED

OR
WILL WE BE TREATED ON THIS FORUM

AS IF IT IS ONLY FOR THE
"UPCI"

ENDORSED ?


Bishop1
:beatdeadhorse

__________________
" ONE LORD - ONE FAITH - ONE BAPTISM - ONE CHURCH - ONE WIFE "
{ AND THAT, MY FRIEND, IS WHAT WE CALL ONENESS}Greasy Grace

[Brett Prince]

In all fairness, G.G. did make us look like a bunch of baffoons (sp?). Yet, I don't believe he did it intentionally, and he can preach for me any day of the week.

[Ron]

I agree we need to have better discernment, I (not maybe your case) have witnessed a trend in some to bash one's ministry or movement when someone misses.

We all need better discernment.

[Thumper]

WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE ?

What Is The Difference Between

Open Sin
VS
Hidden Sin ?

Evangelistly Speaking
VS
Plain Out Lying ?

Giving More Than Possible
VS
Giving 110% ?

A Sexual Indescretion
VS
Plain Out Adultery ?

Dating A Woman While She Is STILL Legally Married
VS
Dating Someone Else's Wife ?

Watching T V
VS
Watching a Video ?

Watching A Video
VS
Watching A Movie ?

Tithing On Net Income
VS
Stealing ?

" L.W."
VS
" R.N." ?

" B.B."
VS
" F.H." ?

Or
" G.G. " telling everyone at the Mississippi Campmeeting
That " BORAT " Has Just Recieved The 'HOLY GHOST'
VS
Being A FALSE PROPHET ?


{just curious I guess}
Bishop1
:beatdeadhorse

Excellent points Bishop. When we give a pass to people just because they are our friends or family and wink at indiscretion, sin or just plain foolishness we abdigate our responsibility to "Prove all things..."

The problem with much of Pentecost is that they really want a neutered pulpit. Oh, they will never admit it, they will say that their mute tongues are that way so as to promote unity. However, when men are censured for telling folks that the emporer has no clothes you can be assured that God is no where to be seen.

This isn't the first time and it won't be the last time but the Nathans are very rarely appreciated.

[rgcraig]

Well Bishop, what do we do about this?

It's not a very popular thread.

Wonder why?

[Steadfast]

MY MY MY

HOW QUICKLY

WE DEFEND OUR FRIENDS

BUT

LET'S EXPLORE

THE OTHER QUESTIONS RAISED

AS IF WE ARE OPEN MINDED AND HONEST HEARTED

OR
WILL WE BE TREATED ON THIS FORUM

AS IF IT IS ONLY FOR THE
"UPCI"

ENDORSED ?


Bishop1
:beatdeadhorse

" ONE LORD - ONE FAITH - ONE BAPTISM - ONE CHURCH - ONE WIFE "
{ AND THAT, MY FRIEND, IS WHAT WE CALL ONENESS}Greasy Grace


Bishop 1, I would suspect your welcome here 24/7 if you decide to be here that much. Everyone likes you, including myself. I just think it a little unfair to tag G. G. as having no discernment when ANY OF US would have probably surmised that he had received the Holy Ghost as well.

For the record, if it was being said about YOU I would come just as strongly to your defense. I think you know full well that the issue isn't really G. G. or UPC; the issue is a deceptive man intent on mocking a precious experience. This is one of those areas for which it is dangerous to say too quickly "Where was the discernment?"... any of us would have rejoiced at the supposed response (i/e tongues) they saw.

Again, I would have come just as quick to your defense... UPC or not. :tease

[Steadfast]

Excellent points Bishop. When we give a pass to people just because they are our friends or family and wink at indiscretion, sin or just plain foolishness we abdigate our responsibility to "Prove all things..."

The problem with much of Pentecost is that they really want a neutered pulpit. Oh, they will never admit it, they will say that their mute tongues are that way so as to promote unity. However, when men are censured for telling folks that the emporer has no clothes you can be assured that God is no where to be seen.

This isn't the first time and it won't be the last time but the Nathans are very rarely appreciated.

If you are even remotely insinuating that I'm for anything resembling a fettered pulpit ('neutered' in your words) then you are obviously smoking something VERY strong. Anybody that knows me or my Church knows that nothing takes a precedent over preaching a strong, straight and doctrinally sound message.

However, I preached that very same camp the very next year. When you have that many people getting the Holy Ghost and each time speaking in tongues it is entirely possible to have a fake or two. Thumper, you know that full well.

Can you sincerely say that you have never prayed someone through only to find out the next day, next week or next year (as in this case) that their perceived acts of commitment on an altar weren't exactly in line with their actions outside of that sanctuary?

Do we need more discernment? Absolutely. All of us do. But the day you can tell me you've never been deceived by someone is the day I'll see your character as much less than honest.

[rgcraig]

I believe there are more issues Bishop brought up than just the Borat one.

[ManOfWord]

I was G.G.'s dorm "dad" in Bible School. I spent a lot of time with him and he is a good guy. He was a very good basketball player and hot headed. I had to cool him and some others down more than once. That is just guys being guys. He is a red blooded American male!

That being said, there is always a certain amount of "showmanship" when it comes to camp meetings and large, important venues. I am not criticizing GG, but the organization, almost any organization, has created the possiblity of these things happening. The greater the "show" the more invitations one receives. These kinds of things, if they wre real, translate into more meetings. It is easy to fall into wanting these things to be real instead of having a healthy skepticism. All of this would have been OK if they hadn't taken the "bait" and ran with it.

[The Mrs]

I used the initials RN once.

ONCE. :oops





I got chewed out for it. :blink

[Thumper]

If you are even remotely insinuating that I'm for anything resembling a fettered pulpit ('neutered' in your words) then you are obviously smoking something VERY strong. Anybody that knows me or my Church knows that nothing takes a precedent over preaching a strong, straight and doctrinally sound message.

However, I preached that very same camp the very next year. When you have that many people getting the Holy Ghost and each time speaking in tongues it is entirely possible to have a fake or two. Thumper, you know that full well.

Can you sincerely say that you have never prayed someone through only to find out the next day, next week or next year (as in this case) that their perceived acts of commitment on an altar weren't exactly in line with their actions outside of that sanctuary?

Do we need more discernment? Absolutely. All of us do. But the day you can tell me you've never been deceived by someone is the day I'll see your character as much less than honest.

I know well that some might fake an experience with God. Thats why I adhere to the strict policy "To prove all things..." I don't stand before a conference/congregation screaming about how they got the Holy Ghost. I don't hand the microphone to somebody who nobody knows who just got the Holy Ghost and expect them to make any kind of statement remotely resembling appropriate. Thats called showmanship and it is stench to God. GG is a known offender when it comes to that kind of shenanigans. I have seen it with my own eyes. The fact that this Borat character got him is his own fault.

[Bishop1]

I was G.G.'s dorm "dad" in Bible School.
I spent a lot of time with him and he is a good guy. He was a very
good basketball player and hot headed. I had to cool him and some
others down more than once. That is just guys being guys.
He is a red blooded American male!

That being said, there is always a certain amount of "showmanship"
when it comes to camp meetings and large, important venues.
I am not criticizing GG, but the organization, almost any organization,
has created the possiblity of these things happening.
The greater the "show" the more invitations one receives.
These kinds of things, if they wre real, translate into more meetings.
It is easy to fall into wanting these things to be real instead of having
a healthy skepticism.
All of this would have been OK if they hadn't taken the "bait"
and ran with it.

Some years ago a scallywag
by the name of " G.B. " made the apostolic
pentecostal rounds in the UPCI.

He stated that he came in under the leadeship
of Wilkerson and he supposedly was Nicki Cruz's
gangland running mate.

He also stated that 20 and 30 recieved the Holy
Ghost in each and every service that he conducted.

It seemed that almost everyone was using him
BUT
I felt that something about him did not ring true.

He was speaking in the St Louis area
and
asked my sister-in-law out after Church.

We all went out to a restaurant
and as we were eating and fellowshipping
I mentioned that we had recently been in NYC
even telling him the name of the Church
where I had ministered.

I mentioned that I had talked with a sister
in that church ,{with 4 young children},
who'se husband had left them with no support.

I stated that I knew that NYC is a very large place
but
I still wondered if he knew of her
or
if they could possibly be related
since
they had the same last name.

Well It Seemed That
Ole George Had The Unction
To Suddenly Leave St Louis That Very Night
and
I haven't heard about any Apostolic Church
Using Him Since That Fateful Night -

Bishop1
:beatdeadhorse

[Steadfast]

I know well that some might fake an experience with God. Thats why I adhere to the strict policy "To prove all things..." I don't stand before a conference/congregation screaming about how they got the Holy Ghost. I don't hand the microphone to somebody who nobody knows who just got the Holy Ghost and expect them to make any kind of statement remotely resembling appropriate. Thats called showmanship and it is stench to God. GG is a known offender when it comes to that kind of shenanigans. I have seen it with my own eyes. The fact that this Borat character got him is his own fault.

Well, it seems that I'm now in a 'fix' between two 'straights'. On one hand I totally disagree with the 'showmanship' aspect of it. I know that it does happen in some instances but I think rejoicing over someone getting the Holy Ghost is more akin to 'testimony service' than 'look at me... and where's your datebook?'

I think it's a good thing to, at least at times, smear victories in the enemy's face. Again, I just don't buy into the whole showmanship opinion. Granted, G. G. is my friend and there are probably many things we do and see differently but I personally haven't seen a lot of showmanship in the times I've seen his ministry in operation.

On the OTHER hand, I probably wouldn't have handed the joker a microphone, either. Too dangerous and the wrong hand on a microphone could kill what it's taken an entire service to produce. Just not my policy and, as they now know, not always wisdom to say the least.

[Steadfast]

Some years ago a scallywag
by the name of " G.B. " made the apostolic
pentecostal rounds in the UPCI.

He stated that he came in under the leadeship
of Wilkerson and he supposedly was Nicki Cruz's
gangland running mate.

He also stated that 20 and 30 recieved the Holy
Ghost in each and every service that he conducted.

It seemed that almost everyone was using him
BUT
I felt that something about him did not ring true.

He was speaking in the St Louis area
and
asked my sister-in-law out after Church.

We all went out to a restaurant
and as we were eating and fellowshipping
I mentioned that we had recently been in NYC
even telling him the name of the Church
where I had ministered.

I mentioned that I had talked with a sister
in that church ,{with 4 young children},
who'se husband had left them with no support.

I stated that I knew that NYC is a very large place
but
I still wondered if he knew of her
or
if they could possibly be related
since
they had the same last name.

Well It Seemed That
Ole George Had The Unction
To Suddenly Leave St Louis That Very Night
and
I haven't heard about any Apostolic Church
Using Him Since That Fateful Night -

Bishop1
:beatdeadhorse

I think I heard about that guy. May even have been around in my early days.

I do think it's funny how so many are gullible to anything that says, "I used to be with Swaggart, Wilkerson, etc....." I met a man once who said he was on his '3rd revelation of oneness'. Seems he was a singer and was in the trinitarian movement... until the doors closed. Got a revelation of oneness... until the doors closed... trinity... oneness.... trinity... oneness... Well, you get the picture.

Found out he abandoned a wife and kids who were still going to one of our UPC Churches in Lake Charles, Lousiana. The funny thing is that he wore that '3rd Revelation of Oneness' like a badge of honor... guess he never understood how stupid it really made him look.

[IAintMovin]

OH NO !

{Apparantly I Have Stepped On Some Toes}

I HAVE NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO AXE TO GRIND

EXCEPT

ACTS 2:38 !



AS A MATTER OF FACT

I LIKE " G.G. "

BUT

MY POINT IS

WHERE IS OUR

D I S C E R N M E N T !


Bishop1
:beatdeadhorse

I do think that God has a sense of humor, also I believe that we need to have discernment and I believe that the Holy Ghost will give US discernment, but what I find to be funny is that when men or women start screaming about others needing discernment and "BLess God they should have had discernment" it is not long till they too are blindsided, when this happens it would not surprise me to see a smile on Gods lips in rembering that He and He alone knows the hearts of all men and women.

[Garfield]

What gives? Did I miss something? I saw no speaking in tongues by Borat on the videos?

[Steadfast]

Trust me, those who were there praying with him said he put on a "Oscar winning performance" of his own on the altar. Many of them told me that he HAD to have some association with Pentecost in his past as he knew just how to act (pardon the pun) and precisely how to respond.

[rgcraig]

Trust me, those who were there praying with him said he put on a "Oscar winning performance" of his own on the altar. Many of them told me that he HAD to have some association with Pentecost in his past as he knew just how to act (pardon the pun) and precisely how to respond.I would assume that he "studied Pentecost" as any actor will study their role to get as familar with it as they can.

[Carpenter]

Bishop 1, I would suspect your welcome here 24/7 if you decide to be here that much. Everyone likes you, including myself. I just think it a little unfair to tag G. G. as having no discernment when ANY OF US would have probably surmised that he had received the Holy Ghost as well.

For the record, if it was being said about YOU I would come just as strongly to your defense. I think you know full well that the issue isn't really G. G. or UPC; the issue is a deceptive man intent on mocking a precious experience. This is one of those areas for which it is dangerous to say too quickly "Where was the discernment?"... any of us would have rejoiced at the supposed response (i/e tongues) they saw.

Again, I would have come just as quick to your defense... UPC or not. :tease

I don't blame G.G., what happened was an Apostolic cultural phenomenon. He did everything he was supposed to do. All the hoopala, all the emotion, it is designed to enthrall the crowd, to legitimize the message and the meeting. This would have been something entirely different had anyone decided to take Borat back stage to talk to him instead of giving him the mike.

It is the Apostolic culture to do anything and everything to work the crowd up into a froth in order to make sure the preacher was right on target for his sermon...

Borat: "Who can heal this pain that is in my heart???"
G.G. "...The one we preached about tonight."

Why not simply tell him "Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior!"


I agree with the Bishop on this one and most others in his list. Y'all should feel blessed, this is one of the only ongoing conversations I have seen him engaged in.

:D

[Carpenter]

I do think that God has a sense of humor, also I believe that we need to have discernment and I believe that the Holy Ghost will give US discernment, but what I find to be funny is that when men or women start screaming about others needing discernment and "BLess God they should have had discernment" it is not long till they too are blindsided, when this happens it would not surprise me to see a smile on Gods lips in rembering that He and He alone knows the hearts of all men and women.

It is never a situation of discernment when culture and nature takes over. I am sure they would have handed the mike to a horse claiming healing had that been the case. All this was not for the sake of Borat's or anyone elses conversion, healing or salvation, it was for the crowd...thus the microphone/public address system.