Canadian and American Healthcare ?

[Scott Hutchinson]

What are the primary differences between Canadian and American Heatlhcare?
What are the benefits and the drawbacks of The Canadian Healtcare system ,compared to the American Healthcare system ?

[Ron]

Under the Canadian system, everyone has access to Healthcare. The same as everyone else.

Under the American system there are 50 Million Americans without healthcare.


In Canada, we pay 108 dollars a month in pemiums to the Government for access to that healthcare system. If you make under a certain amount that amount of premium either is reduced or eliminated.

In Canada there is no HMO'S.

The patient and the doctor decide on treatment.

It certainly ain't perfect, and I am sure American Health Insurers tell Whoppers of tales about the scares of our system which are no where near the truth.

I think that Healthcare shouldn't be for profit!!

[TrueNorth]

Under the Canadian system, everyone has access to Healthcare. The same as everyone else.

Under the American system there are 50 Million Americans without healthcare.


In Canada, we pay 108 dollars a month in pemiums to the Government for access to that healthcare system. If you make under a certain amount that amount of premium either is reduced or eliminated.

In Canada there is no HMO'S.

The patient and the doctor decide on treatment.

It certainly ain't perfect, and I am sure American Health Insurers tell Whoppers of tales about the scares of our system which are no where near the truth.

I think that Healthcare shouldn't be for profit!!

You need to move to a province with no healthcare premiums.
Bottom line: In Canada - have a heart attack - get superb treatment - keep your house and savings, walk out of the hospital with no bill, just best wishes.
In USA - kiss your savings and credit rating good bye.

[Trouvere]

Funny my Canadian nurse friends tell me nightmare stories of the healthcare system in canada.

[TRIPLE E]

Funny my Canadian nurse friends tell me nightmare stories of the healthcare system in canada.

My family has now been a year and a half without a family doctor .The last place we lived we went 4-5 years with a family med.Yes that is right here in Canada!

[Broken]

There would be no doubt Canada has "health care" which does not cost and are proud of that....

Friends - living in the USA pays $1M a month for healthcare for themselves and it does not cover "heart" issues

Their better half has to pay another ???? for their healthcare ....

This could make a house payment for someone in Canada and live in one of the finest neighbourhoods.


ANYONE LIVING IN CANADA IS AND SHOULD BE PROUD TO BE A CANADIAN - YES! ( no offense intended ) If you live in USA I am sure you are proud to be an American! (Also realize that living there doesn't make you a Canadian or American- just talking in a broad sense)

[ReformedDave]

Funny my Canadian nurse friends tell me nightmare stories of the healthcare system in canada.

And the long waiting periods for life saving procedures. My cousin had to wait 3 months for breast cancer surgery.

[Broken]

And the long waiting periods for life saving procedures. My cousin had to wait 3 months for breast cancer surgery.


I would never have waited that long...I would have requested to be operated on in whatever hospital/city that could take me the quickest ...that would be her "Doctor's" duty to find her a quicker appointment! Sometimes with this system one needs to be very aggressive. Cancer would be enough to make an individual aggressive to insist on faster service.

[ReformedDave]

The american system is so broken I had gastric bypass and I had to pay $100 out of pocket!!!!! I even went out of 'system' for the surgery and my INS covered everything but the aforementioned $100.

[TrueNorth]

The american system is so broken I had gastric bypass and I had to pay $100 out of pocket!!!!! I even went out of 'system' for the surgery and my INS covered everything but the aforementioned $100.

And how much do you or your employer have to pay a month for that wonderful insurance?

[Ron]

And how much do you or your employer have to pay a month for that wonderful insurance?

Some employers in Canada pay the employee portion of our premiums.

[ReformedDave]

And how much do you or your employer have to pay a month for that wonderful insurance?

I suppose that you think it's the government's responsibility to provide health care?????

[Ron]

I suppose that you think it's the government's responsibility to provide health care?????


Isn't the Government of the people, by the people, and for the people?

The Government is supposed to carry out the wishes of the people, for it's people.

Don't you think that everyone should have access to healthcare regardless of creed, colour, or background?

[ReformedDave]

Isn't the Government of the people, by the people, and for the people?

The Government is supposed to carry out the wishes of the people, for it's people.

Don't you think that everyone should have access to healthcare regardless of creed, colour, or background?

The role of the Federal government should be limited. In American it was originally that way. It is becoming socialistic and at times almost communistic.

The government is to carry out the 'wishes' and rules of the constitution....not the whims of the people.

Healthcare is not an entitlement. Not a 'right' and it is not the federal governments' job to provide it.

[ReformedDave]

If anyone is for a 'serious' article on this subject; here you are-

http://www.bmei.org/jbem/volume1/num4/terrell_ethical_issues_in_medical_insurance.pdf

[Ron]

The role of the Federal government should be limited. In American it was originally that way. It is becoming socialistic and at times almost communistic.

The government is to carry out the 'wishes' and rules of the constitution....not the whims of the people.

Healthcare is not an entitlement. Not a 'right' and it is not the federal governments' job to provide it.

I seriously disagree with that on both a political, and Christian point of view.

Given that outlook, people in third world countries should suffer.

[ReformedDave]

I seriously disagree with that on both a political, and Christian point of view.

Given that outlook, people in third world countries should suffer.

You have a political view that is separate from your Christian view? Please state your scriptural basis for both.

It appears that you espouse 'big brother' and Scripture is clear on the limitations and responsibilities of civil government.

[TrueNorth]

I suppose that you think it's the government's responsibility to provide health care?????

As a Canadian I pay for my healthcare through my taxes.
I also am of the opinion that the life of a poor person is of the same value as that of an upper middle class white person.

[ReformedDave]

As a Canadian I pay for my healthcare through my taxes.
I also am of the opinion that the life of a poor person is of the same value as that of an upper middle class white person.

You certainly do pay! That's a case of government overstepping it's bounds.

Value of Life? No problem with that but I find it also immoral for government to steal from one to give to another.

[Ron]

You have a political view that is separate from your Christian view? Please state your scriptural basis for both.

It appears that you espouse 'big brother' and Scripture is clear on the limitations and responsibilities of civil government.

Who said that? There are areas where I think that the Government is wrong.
Making sure that Healthcare is not for profit is something everyone should stand for.

Should someone go without healthcare because they can't afford it?

I know of people on this board who are suffering because they can not afford coverage.

Jam 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jam 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jam 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

Though he mentions food, he does say needful for the body.

Luk 10:30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
Luk 10:31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
Luk 10:32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
Luk 10:33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
Luk 10:34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
Luk 10:35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
Luk 10:36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbor unto him that fell among the thieves?
Luk 10:37 And he said, He that showed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

Obviously Jesus wasn't concerned about profit, but about "CARE" & "COMPASSION!"

Healthcare for everyone is a right!

[Ron]

You certainly do pay! That's a case of government overstepping it's bounds.

Value of Life? No problem with that but I find it also immoral for government to steal from one to give to another.

You are at odds with your philosophy Brother, if you value life, you will en devour to make sure that everyone is taken care of.

Government only steals when they are involved in things they shouldn't be like teaching that Gay & Lesbians are a valid lifestyle choice or involved in a war they should never have started.

[ReformedDave]

Who said that? There are areas where I think that the Government is wrong.
Making sure that Healthcare is not for profit is something everyone should stand for.

Should someone go without healthcare because they can't afford it?

I know of people on this board who are suffering because they can not afford coverage.

Jam 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jam 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jam 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

Though he mentions food, he does say needful for the body.

Luk 10:30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
Luk 10:31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
Luk 10:32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
Luk 10:33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
Luk 10:34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
Luk 10:35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
Luk 10:36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbor unto him that fell among the thieves?
Luk 10:37 And he said, He that showed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

Obviously Jesus wasn't concerned about profit, but about "CARE" & "COMPASSION!"

Healthcare for everyone is a right!


Every verse you quoted has NOTHING to do with governmental health care (I:E- steal from some to give to others). It does address those in the body of faith reaching out to those in need. I firmly believe that and Christianity used to do that. It was never intended for civil rulers. The church has abdicated it's position and civil government has created 'legal' thievery and has created communistic healthcare and education along with other things it has no business authorizing.

[ReformedDave]

You are at odds with your philosophy Brother, if you value life, you will en devour to make sure that everyone is taken care of.

Government only steals when they are involved in things they shouldn't be like teaching that Gay & Lesbians are a valid lifestyle choice or involved in a war they should never have started.

You should take a lesson in Biblical economics. Try "Theonomy in Christian Ethics" by Greg Bahnsen. Good place to start. It's amazing how much Scripture addresses when it is taken as a whole.

Now matter how much you close your eyes to it Canada has become a socialist state with America not far behind and in economics it amounts to forcibly taking from some to give to others and there is no warrant for that.

[TrueNorth]

You certainly do pay! That's a case of government overstepping it's bounds.

Value of Life? No problem with that but I find it also immoral for government to steal from one to give to another.

Our government is clearly mandated to provide healthcare and a social network because we are a caring society.
I do find it interesting that Americans (even Christians) have such a problem with caring for the less fortunate in their society.

[ReformedDave]

Our government is clearly mandated to provide healthcare and a social network because we are a caring society.
I do find it interesting that Americans (even Christians) have such a problem with caring for the less fortunate in their society.

Didn't Marx say essentially the same thing???? From the cradle to the grave.....The government is your savior.

What's wrong with Biblical Ethics in civil government?

BTW, sinners that are humanistic to the core are a "caring society"?

[ReformedDave]

Prescribe a Dose of Free Enterprise for Medicine
by Steven F. Hotze, M.D.
3/13/2007

The only thing that will save medicine is a good dose of free enterprise. Government regulations, entitlement programs and HMOs are leading us down the road to socialized medicine.

In 1960, only 21 % of personal medical care expenditures were paid by the government, 24% by insurance companies and 55% were paid by consumers out of their own pockets. Today, the government pays for over 50% of all medical expenses while consumers pay for only 15% of care out of pocket. HMOs and other insurance schemes pay the rest.

When my wife and I had our first baby in 1969 at St. David’s Hospital in Austin, the total cost, which we paid out of pocket, was $250 for three days in the hospital and $250 for the obstetrician. When adjusted for inflation, this would equal $2500 today. Yet the total cost of a delivery today, including hospital and doctor, has increased 6 times, to approximately $15,000. What has caused this dramatic increase?

Private medical practice is being choked by corporate socialism, which is the cooperative effort of insurance companies and government to destroy competition and replace it with central planning called “managed care.”

At the heart of capitalism is the voluntary exchange of goods and services for money between two individuals. Private enterprise encourages businesses to compete for consumer dollars. This system of independent economic actions, freely taken by millions of consumers and businesses, has proven to produce the highest standards of living in every country where it has been adopted. Free enterprise capitalism is the soil in which liberty flourishes.

Socialism opposes free enterprise and private property, seeking to govern the economy through central planning. All activity is planned by government bureaucrats and must be enforced by laws and funded through legalized theft of the productive citizens. Everywhere socialism has been tried it has discouraged innovation and led to shortages and rationing of goods and services. Socialism is the drought in which liberty wilts and dies.

Socialism undermines the doctor-patient relationship. If you are covered by an HMO or by Medicare, then your doctor no longer works for you but for whoever pays his bills. The doctor must follow their rules and accept their fees. This is why you may feel that your doctor is not listening to you or doesn’t seem to care. Your physician can only serve one master, and it’s not you.

The solution is to return to a free enterprise system for medicine with doctors charging a fee for service, just like any other business. Treatment is consumer-based and permits the patient to choose how to spend his money. This can be easily achieved through the use of a Health Saving Account (HSA) coupled with a high deductible catastrophic insurance policy. Ask your business to offer this option which is tax free, just like an IRA. What you don’t spend you can save.

Beware of politicians who promise to lead us into the Promised Land by giving us universal health coverage, which really means socialized medicine.

[Ron]

Our government is clearly mandated to provide healthcare and a social network because we are a caring society.
I do find it interesting that Americans (even Christians) have such a problem with caring for the less fortunate in their society.

Amen.

Obviously some believe if you can't afford it-suffer.

I don't find that socialistic, or humanistic.

I find it being a Compassionate Christian.

The American system is built on nothing less than Greed.
If there is a buck to be made-make it.

That isn't something that even an atheist could agree with.

1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.


Boy, the old prophet sure hit the nail on the head with that verse!!

[ReformedDave]

Amen.

Obviously some believe if you can't afford it-suffer.

I don't find that socialistic, or humanistic.

I find it being a Compassionate Christian.

The American system is built on nothing less than Greed.
If there is a buck to be made-make it.

That isn't something that even an atheist could agree with.

1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.


Boy, the old prophet sure hit the nail on the head with that verse!!

Can you explain to me what is socialism(in health care) and how it differs from your system?

I've never condoned suffering. I think it immoral to take from one by government force and give to another. As Christians we should voluntarily be doing this. The church has stopped almost all charity and given it to the government who has become our savior.

[ILG]

My Canadian cousin ( I have a bazillion) died at a young age from ovarian cancer because she couldn't get in to see a doctor. My relatives believe if she had been in the US, she may well be alive today.

I am not for government health care. Not only for this reason, but because I don't think people who live healthy should have to be responsible for the health care of people who abuse their bodies.

[ReformedDave]

My Canadian cousin ( I have a bazillion) died at a young age from ovarian cancer because she couldn't get in to see a doctor. My relatives believe if she had been in the US, she may well be alive today.

I am not for government health care. Not only for this reason, but because I don't think people who live healthy should have to be responsible for the health care of people who abuse their bodies.

I agree. This is not to say that there are possibilities for sin in a capitalistic system. As long as there is fallen man there will be abuse. But the Biblical pattern of private property and ownership, capitalism, and proper taxation is still found in Scripture and government funding of health care isn't.

[Pragmatist]

I am not for government health care. Not only for this reason, but because I don't think people who live healthy should have to be responsible for the health care of people who abuse their bodies.

Totally agree. I should not have to pay for another's poor lifestyle choices.

[ReformedDave]

Totally agree. I should not have to pay for another's poor lifestyle choices.

I wonder if Canada provides abortions?

[Ron]

Totally agree. I should not have to pay for another's poor lifestyle choices.

Is Cancer a poor lifestyle choice?
What about Pneumonia?
I guess every healthcare need is based on a poor choice-right?

Based on your reasoning, Lazurus got what he deserved, and the man who fell among thieves should have looked after himself.

Yet Jesus praised the good Samaritan??? Hmmm?

I think I will go with what Jesus likes rather than the love of Money that is so prevelant south of the border.

Good news on the horizon though a majority of Americans want some system
whereby "ALL" Americans have adequate coverage-not just those with money.

[ReformedDave]

Is Cancer a poor lifestyle choice?
What about Pneumonia?
I guess every healthcare need is based on a poor choice-right?

Based on your reasoning, Lazurus got what he deserved, and the man who fell among thieves should have looked after himself.

Yet Jesus praised the good Samaritan??? Hmmm?

I think I will go with what Jesus likes rather than the love of Money that is so prevelant south of the border.

Good news on the horizon though a majority of Americans want some system
whereby "ALL" Americans have adequate coverage-not just those with money.

Second time- Does the kind and loving Canadian system provide for abortions?

I work in one of the largest women's and babies hospitals in the USA and we get MANY without insurance and many from Mexico. They ALL receive the best we can offer regardless of ability to pay....and many can't.

You take all these scriptures and illustrations out of context. None apply to the state but all apply to the individual.

The Canadian government doesn't love your money??????? :slaphappy

Ever heard of taxes?!

BTW, much of heart disease and cancer are the result of life style choices.

[CC1]

If I ever desired to be part of a Socialist healthcare system Canada would be one of the better ones.

However I don't think that day is ever going to come. Oh, I think the day will come when the Dems have their way and we will have socialized medicene, I just don't think the day will come when I desire that.

Canada has a much more homogenized populous and economy than the USA. They don't have as many lazy worthless ghetto bums for the government to take their hard earned dollars to pay for their six or seven illigetimate children,etc.

[ReformedDave]

If I ever desired to be part of a Socialist healthcare system Canada would be one of the better ones.

However I don't think that day is ever going to come. Oh, I think the day will come when the Dems have their way and we will have socialized medicene, I just don't think the day will come when I desire that.

Canada has a much more homogenized populous and economy than the USA. They don't have as many lazy worthless ghetto bums for the government to take their hard earned dollars to pay for their six or seven illigetimate children,etc.

Guess which country had the first socialized healthcare system?

[Ron]

Lest anyone think we are the USSR of the north, a part of the fees not covered under Basic Medical coverage in the Province of B.C.

Services Not Covered by MSP -(Medical Service Plan of B.C.)

MSP does not provide coverage for the following:

* services that are deemed to be not medically required, such as cosmetic surgery;
* dental services, except as outlined under benefits;
* routine eye examinations for persons 19 to 64 years of age;
* eyeglasses, hearing aids, and other equipment or appliances;
* prescription drugs (see PharmaCare);
* chiropractic, massage therapy, naturopathy, physical therapy and non-surgical podiatry services (except for MSP beneficiaries with premium assistance status);
* preventive services and screening tests not supported by evidence of medical effectiveness (for example, routine annual "complete" physical examinations, whole body CT scans, prostate specific antigen (PSA) tests);
* services of counsellors or psychologists;
* medical examinations, certificates or tests required for:
o driving a motor vehicle
o employment
o life insurance
o school or university
o recreational and sporting activities
o immigration purposes

[Pragmatist]

Is Cancer a poor lifestyle choice?
What about Pneumonia?


Research has shown that cancer is definitely linked to diet and exercise. So I would say a good number of cancer cases are poor lifestyle choices.

Smokers are much more likely to have lung problems, including pneumonia, so once again, yes a lot of cases are poor lifestyle choices.

[TRIPLE E]

Research has shown that cancer is definitely linked to diet and exercise. So I would say a good number of cancer cases are poor lifestyle choices.

Smokers are much more likely to have lung problems, including pneumonia, so once again, yes a lot of cases are poor lifestyle choices.

I know of a lady never smoked a day in her life but has lung cancer due to the working environment and second hand smoke from smokers. Nothing to do with poor lifestyle choices!

I thank God He has blessed us with such a wonderful country and healthcare system.It has its flaws but the pros sure outweigh the cons.

[ReformedDave]

I know of a lady never smoked a day in her life but has lung cancer due to the working environment and second hand smoke from smokers. Nothing to do with poor lifestyle choices!

I thank God He has blessed us with such a wonderful country and healthcare system.It has its flaws but the pros sure outweigh the cons.

There are no studies that have shown conclusively that second hand smoking causes cancer.

[Pragmatist]

I know of a lady never smoked a day in her life but has lung cancer due to the working environment and second hand smoke from smokers. Nothing to do with poor lifestyle choices!

I thank God He has blessed us with such a wonderful country and healthcare system.It has its flaws but the pros sure outweigh the cons.

I didn't say all; I said a good number. The majority of diabetes and heart disease problems are lifestyle related also. That doesn't mean that there aren't congenital conditions that people have no control over.

[Trouvere]

Just so it is understood.Here in the US our taxes do pay for heathcare.It goes by your income.If you have nothing then you get a medicaid card.We don't have poor people walking around without healthcare.Its those of us who work that are paying and many because of the cost of living choose to go without healthcare.
My employer does pay a portion of mine which is great because I only pay
around 140.oo a month for a family plan my share.I get to choose my md and
can go out of network if I want.I can even submit a new md to my plan and if the
md approves it will pay him as well.So actually things aren't that bad here.
However I don't want higher taxes and cost of living.Canada is expensive to live.
My friend had to pay twice as much due to taxes and dollar amount for books that she used for a class than I did.

[Pragmatist]

Just so it is understood.Here in the US our taxes do pay for heathcare.It goes by your income.If you have nothing then you get a medicaid card.We don't have poor people walking around without healthcare.Its those of us who work that are paying and many because of the cost of living choose to go without healthcare.
My employer does pay a portion of mine which is great because I only pay
around 140.oo a month for a family plan my share.I get to choose my md and
can go out of network if I want.I can even submit a new md to my plan and if the
md approves it will pay him as well.So actually things aren't that bad here.
However I don't want higher taxes and cost of living.Canada is expensive to live.
My friend had to pay twice as much due to taxes and dollar amount for books that she used for a class than I did.

This is true. And Medicare covers people 65 and older. So actually my tax dollars are already paying for many people's poor lifestyle choices. Just not everyone's.

[Trouvere]

This is true. And Medicare covers people 65 and older. So actually my tax dollars are already paying for many people's poor lifestyle choices. Just not everyone's.

Yeah I still pay for my own:slaphappy

[Scott Hutchinson]

So if I was to visit Canada and I got fataly ILL could I treated at a hospitable for free ,even though I have citizenship from another country ?

[Trouvere]

So if I was to visit Canada and I got fataly ILL could I treated at a hospitable for free ,even though I have citizenship from another country ?

haha they would probably take you to the nearest border and drop you over the line.:slaphappy

[Ron]

I know of a lady never smoked a day in her life but has lung cancer due to the working environment and second hand smoke from smokers. Nothing to do with poor lifestyle choices!

I thank God He has blessed us with such a wonderful country and healthcare system.It has its flaws but the pros sure outweigh the cons.

All I can say is Amen!

[Ron]

Just so it is understood.Here in the US our taxes do pay for heathcare.It goes by your income.If you have nothing then you get a medicaid card.We don't have poor people walking around without healthcare.Its those of us who work that are paying and many because of the cost of living choose to go without healthcare.
My employer does pay a portion of mine which is great because I only pay
around 140.oo a month for a family plan my share.I get to choose my md and
can go out of network if I want.I can even submit a new md to my plan and if the
md approves it will pay him as well.So actually things aren't that bad here.
However I don't want higher taxes and cost of living.Canada is expensive to live.
My friend had to pay twice as much due to taxes and dollar amount for books that she used for a class than I did.

The thing is you have a huge majority of the 50 Million Americans who don't have, or don't have adequate medical insurance.

That is the sad reality.

[Ron]

There are no studies that have shown conclusively that second hand smoking causes cancer.

You sound like a lobbyist for one of those big American Corporations!

There are numerous studies that show second hand smoke is bad for you!

[ReformedDave]

You sound like a lobbyist for one of those big American Corporations!

There are numerous studies that show second hand smoke is bad for you!

Actually I'm a practicing respiratory therapist who reads and understand medical studies and the scientific method.

[ReformedDave]

The thing is you have a huge majority of the 50 Million Americans who don't have, or don't have adequate medical insurance.

That is the sad reality.

And your savior and lord is your government.

[Pragmatist]

The thing is you have a huge majority of the 50 Million Americans who don't have, or don't have adequate medical insurance.

That is the sad reality.

Those numbers are inflated. Some qualify for Medicaid and choose not to apply. Other people have adequate income, are young and healthy and choose not to purchase health insurance that they could afford.

[Ron]

And your savior and lord is your government.

Ah, no. Actually it is Jesus Christ!

I can not stand Government, but I do have to acknowledge when they do things right!

I actually talked to an American the other day and they said that we were blessed to have such a system where "everyone" is "included!"

I guess the words,

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Are just idle talk---unless you happen to have money!

Some bow down to the Almighty Dollar-I wouldn't and won't!

[Ron]

Actually I'm a practicing respiratory therapist who reads and understand medical studies and the scientific method.

Well, I will lend you my glasses my friend so you can see that Second hand smoke does affect ones health adversely.

One can read and believe anything they wish nowadays.

Canada still ranks higher than the US in health.:hypercoffee

[Scott Hutchinson]

Can I ask a question does Canada have high taxes ?

[Ron]

Can I ask a question does Canada have high taxes ?

Depends on if you are asking about Income taxes, or taxes overall.
I pay about 30% in income tax.

It is the hidden taxes that get us in the end. GST, Gas Taxes, etc.

There is a phrase that says, "tax me, I'm Canadian!"

[Pragmatist]

Ah, no. Actually it is Jesus Christ!

I can not stand Government, but I do have to acknowledge when they do things right!

I actually talked to an American the other day and they said that we were blessed to have such a system where "everyone" is "included!"

I guess the words,

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Are just idle talk---unless you happen to have money!

Some bow down to the Almighty Dollar-I wouldn't and won't!

Another issue is that many Americans want the best treatment regardless of cost or likelihood of cure. Canadian health care is limited. That wouldn't fly here and that is why costs are spiraling out of control.

[ReformedDave]

Well, I will lend you my glasses my friend so you can see that Second hand smoke does affect ones health adversely.

One can read and believe anything they wish nowadays.

Canada still ranks higher than the US in health.:hypercoffee


You have this habit of ascribing to me things I didn't say. I said that there were no studies that proved second hand smoke caused cancer. Never said it wasn't a bother or contributed to other problems like RAD in children.

[ReformedDave]

Ah, no. Actually it is Jesus Christ!

I can not stand Government, but I do have to acknowledge when they do things right!

I actually talked to an American the other day and they said that we were blessed to have such a system where "everyone" is "included!"

I guess the words,

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Are just idle talk---unless you happen to have money!

Some bow down to the Almighty Dollar-I wouldn't and won't!

Actually capitalism and the free market is promoted by Scripture. Not socialism.

[The Senator]

Another issue is that many Americans want the best treatment regardless of cost or likelihood of cure. Canadian health care is limited. That wouldn't fly here and that is why costs are spiraling out of control.

Canadian health care is limited.

This is an interesting assertion. Do you have any data to back this claim or is this something that you have determined anecdotally? I am in regular contact with several aspects of the Canadian medical system, and I haven't seen any evidence of these "limitations."

[ReformedDave]

Canadian health care is limited.

This is an interesting assertion. Do you have any data to back this claim or is this something that you have determined anecdotally? I am in regular contact with several aspects of the Canadian medical system, and I haven't seen any evidence of these "limitations."

Guess it depends on what one means by 'limitations'.

[The Senator]

Actually capitalism and the free market is promoted by Scripture. Not socialism.

How do you reconcile the Jewish practice of Jubilee years with capitalism?

[Thumper]

Another issue is that many Americans want the best treatment regardless of cost or likelihood of cure. Canadian health care is limited. That wouldn't fly here and that is why costs are spiraling out of control.

Canadian health care is limited.

This is an interesting assertion. Do you have any data to back this claim or is this something that you have determined anecdotally? I am in regular contact with several aspects of the Canadian medical system, and I haven't seen any evidence of these "limitations."

I imagine the limitations being spoken of here would be access. The biggest challenge to Canadian Health care right now access to specialist service. I don't think there is much dispute that waiting lists for specialists is a real problem. Somewhere in the middle I suspect is the answer.

[ReformedDave]

I imagine the limitations being spoken of here would be access. The biggest challenge to Canadian Health care right now access to specialist service. I don't think there is much dispute that waiting lists for specialists is a real problem. Somewhere in the middle I suspect is the answer.

The problem is that when one has a doctor that works for the government or HMOs he doesn't have your best interest at heart.

[Ron]

Another issue is that many Americans want the best treatment regardless of cost or likelihood of cure. Canadian health care is limited. That wouldn't fly here and that is why costs are spiraling out of control.

Actually, American Health Care is based on profit, and not care.
Great if you have the money-if not tough luck.

[Ron]

The problem is that when one has a doctor that works for the government or HMOs he doesn't have your best interest at heart.

There is a difference in working for the Government, and getting paid by them in a fee structure bargained with and agreed to by both parties (Doctors & Health Boards).

I agree HMO'S are bad. We don't have them in Canada.

[Ron]

You have this habit of ascribing to me things I didn't say. I said that there were no studies that proved second hand smoke caused cancer. Never said it wasn't a bother or contributed to other problems like RAD in children.

You brought the studies up.

What is it that you believe?

Can you be clearer??

I am only quoting things you bring up and then when I ascribe them as something you believe in, you cry wolf!

Don't blame me for ascribing something you bring up.
You either believe it, or don't.
Just please be clear on where you stand.

[ReformedDave]

You brought the studies up.

What is it that you believe?

Can you be clearer??

I am only quoting things you bring up and then when I ascribe them as something you believe in, you cry wolf!

Don't blame me for ascribing something you bring up.
You either believe it, or don't.
Just please be clear on where you stand.

I never cried 'wolf'. You stated that I said that second hand smoking caused no ill effect and what I said was that the studies have not shown that it caused cancer. Please quote me correctly....or is that a Canadian malady..:winkgrin

[ReformedDave]

Actually, American Health Care is based on profit, and not care.
Great if you have the money-if not tough luck.

Scripture gives clear credence of fee-for-service. Not take or steal from one to give another.

BTW, if one is broke one care still receive medical care in my hospital system. We see it every day.....many times a day.

[TopDog]

You brought the studies up.

What is it that you believe?

Can you be clearer??

I am only quoting things you bring up and then when I ascribe them as something you believe in, you cry wolf!

Don't blame me for ascribing something you bring up.
You either believe it, or don't.
Just please be clear on where you stand.

Hey Ron - check out this article - http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35422

Of course ReformedDave will close his mind up all "tight and cosy" and discount this...........

I wonder if there's been a *specific* study that shows that drinking drain clearing chemicals such as Draino will kill you? If not - and using ReformedDave's wonky logic - I suggest that he go and drink a couple glasses full of his favorite brand of Draino-type product. This entire discussion is beyond ridiculous and only makes him look SILLY! :party

[Pragmatist]

Canadian health care is limited.

This is an interesting assertion. Do you have any data to back this claim or is this something that you have determined anecdotally? I am in regular contact with several aspects of the Canadian medical system, and I haven't seen any evidence of these "limitations."

No data, just anecdotally. And I'm not saying it's wrong. No country should spend infinite amounts of money on a person that has little chance of survival. Just that in the US, people whine when the insurance contract that they agreed to covers only what it is contracted to and not what they want it to. It would take a complete mindset change to allow the US government to only cover certain costs for specific procedures. Currently, it's no holds barred because the evil private insurance company should cover everything.

[ReformedDave]

Hey Ron - check out this article - http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35422

Of course ReformedDave will close his mind up all "tight and cosy" and discount this...........

I wonder if there's been a *specific* study that shows that drinking drain clearing chemicals such as Draino will kill you? If not - and using ReformedDave's wonky logic - I suggest that he go and drink a couple glasses full of his favorite brand of Draino-type product. This entire discussion is beyond ridiculous and only makes him look SILLY! :party

From one who has to read these studies, I suggest that you do so. Not just the summery of their 'findings'. Look at their methods, procedures, study size, control group, etc. Things are not a clear cut the 'researchers' would have you believe. A coarse in critical thinking might help too. The problem is that one assumes the neutrality of the one doing the research.

Of coarse we might have to do too much work to arrive at the truth......

Lest we forget, I'm not saying that cigarette smoking isn't detrimental to one's health. I'm stating that the correlation of secondhand smoking and cancer is poorly demonstrated.

Thinking. What a lost art!

[originalsecretplace]

What are the primary differences between Canadian and American Heatlhcare?
What are the benefits and the drawbacks of The Canadian Healtcare system ,compared to the American Healthcare system ?

live in Canada and have public health care. I've never been seriously ill.

I went to the doctor's when I was in Florida last year. I had to call my insurance company for permission to go to the doctor and then get their permission to go to a certain doctor. When I finished my visit to the doctor I had to wait for paperwork and to see if I had to pay anything.

When I got home I got a call from the insurance provider asking me what the doctor's diagnosis was, etc. I didn't like the fact I had to tell the insurance company what I considered private information.

In Canada, when I get sick I just go to a doctor and present my card. I can go wherever I want within my province. If I'm out of province I have to go through my Canadian Insurance provider which means they pay and get reimbursed by my province instead of me paying and the province reimbursing me. After the visit I just go home. No paperwork.

The doctor does not give my personal medical history to anyone including the province. The doctor gets paid by the province based on some kind of funding formula -- number of patients and types of care. There are audits done once in a while by the province. I may get a letter in the mail which asks me to verify I saw a doctor on this date.

I don't have trouble finding a doctor to see in my area. Some more rural places don't have enough doctors. I don't go to the emerg unless it is an emergency. I usually just make an appointment with my doctor or the duty doctor and wait 1-2 days max. If I really need to see a doctor they have drop in clinics that I may be able to see someone. The emerg is the LAST place I go.

There are some problems with "wait-lists" for more serious operations and illnesses. The government has acknowleged that and is trying to reduce the waiting for the most serious illnesses.

There was a case in Quebec where a man went to the states to get surgery because he had to wait too long in Canada. He sued for reimbursement and won.

Many people do carry thrid-party insurance for major illness and drugs. If you don't you'll probably go into debt. I pay 47.00 /mnth for my coverage that includes worldwide medical and perscriptions.

Our system isn't perfect but I'm comfortable with it.

[originalsecretplace]

I think it's amusing that the Americans and Canadians seem to have such divergent views on universal healthcare. Americans call us "commies" or the dreaded "socialist". :slaphappy

The issue seems to extract a rather strong reaction from the American side.

Anyway, it's a cultural thing. I live in Canada and have the same viewpoint as I've read on this list as other Canadians regarding healthcare. Everyone should have it regardless of economic or social status.

Call me a commie if you must .... :drama


:killinme

[Ron]

live in Canada and have public health care. I've never been seriously ill.

I went to the doctor's when I was in Florida last year. I had to call my insurance company for permission to go to the doctor and then get their permission to go to a certain doctor. When I finished my visit to the doctor I had to wait for paperwork and to see if I had to pay anything.

When I got home I got a call from the insurance provider asking me what the doctor's diagnosis was, etc. I didn't like the fact I had to tell the insurance company what I considered private information.

In Canada, when I get sick I just go to a doctor and present my card. I can go wherever I want within my province. If I'm out of province I have to go through my Canadian Insurance provider which means they pay and get reimbursed by my province instead of me paying and the province reimbursing me. After the visit I just go home. No paperwork.

The doctor does not give my personal medical history to anyone including the province. The doctor gets paid by the province based on some kind of funding formula -- number of patients and types of care. There are audits done once in a while by the province. I may get a letter in the mail which asks me to verify I saw a doctor on this date.

I don't have trouble finding a doctor to see in my area. Some more rural places don't have enough doctors. I don't go to the emerg unless it is an emergency. I usually just make an appointment with my doctor or the duty doctor and wait 1-2 days max. If I really need to see a doctor they have drop in clinics that I may be able to see someone. The emerg is the LAST place I go.

There are some problems with "wait-lists" for more serious operations and illnesses. The government has acknowleged that and is trying to reduce the waiting for the most serious illnesses.

There was a case in Quebec where a man went to the states to get surgery because he had to wait too long in Canada. He sued for reimbursement and won.

Many people do carry thrid-party insurance for major illness and drugs. If you don't you'll probably go into debt. I pay 47.00 /mnth for my coverage that includes worldwide medical and perscriptions.

Our system isn't perfect but I'm comfortable with it.

I think it's amusing that the Americans and Canadians seem to have such divergent views on universal healthcare. Americans call us "commies" or the dreaded "socialist". :slaphappy

The issue seems to extract a rather strong reaction from the American side.

Anyway, it's a cultural thing. I live in Canada and have the same viewpoint as I've read on this list as other Canadians regarding healthcare. Everyone should have it regardless of economic or social status.

Call me a commie if you must .... :drama


:killinme

Well said, I agree.

To top it off, we also have some pretty top notch Hospitals around with the latest equipment.

In Vancouver, we have some of the best medical treatment centers for Cancer around with the goal to being number 1 in North America.

Best of all, it is open to everyone who has a Provincial Care Card!

[Truly Blessed]

As an American living in Canada with landed immigrant status, I am very grateful for the excellent medical coverage I have received through the years. I am even more appreciative after some recent episodes that caused some concern. Just yesterday I saw both a cardiologist and my family doctor for results from recent tests I have undergone.

I am pleased to report that both doctors have given me a clean bill of health. The cardiologist has informed me that my heart health is that of a person who usually lives a long life.

I have received excellent health care and am so thankful that I don't have huge medical bills to pay simply because I have needed to have a series of tests. It does grate me that here in BC you have to pay a monthly fee based on your income. I have to pay $96.00 a month. I can't understand why we should have to pay anything. It has always been my understanding that Medicare is supposed to be free in Canada. Do any of you Canadians know anything about this?

[Ron]

As an American living in Canada with landed immigrant status, I am very grateful for the excellent medical coverage I have received through the years. I am even more appreciative after some recent episodes that caused some concern. Just yesterday I saw both a cardiologist and my family doctor for results from recent tests I have undergone.

I am pleased to report that both doctors have given me a clean bill of health. The cardiologist has informed me that my heart health is that of a person who usually lives a long life.

I have received excellent health care and am so thankful that I don't have huge medical bills to pay simply because I have needed to have a series of tests. It does grate me that here in BC you have to pay a monthly fee based on your income. I have to pay $96.00 a month. I can't understand why we should have to pay anything. It has always been my understanding that Medicare is supposed to be free in Canada. Do any of you Canadians know anything about this?

Well, my understanding that healthcare isn't totally free, in fact healthcare isn't really socialised but subsidised by both opur taxes and by all the stakeholders coming to the table (doctors, surgeons, specialists) and negotiating a "fair" fee schedule.

The one thing our medical system has is "universality" meaning everyone has access to the same treatment/medical care.

Wev pay a small monthly premium.
Mine is $108.00 a month for a family of 5.

[ReformedDave]

I think it's amusing that the Americans and Canadians seem to have such divergent views on universal healthcare. Americans call us "commies" or the dreaded "socialist". :slaphappy

The issue seems to extract a rather strong reaction from the American side.

Anyway, it's a cultural thing. I live in Canada and have the same viewpoint as I've read on this list as other Canadians regarding healthcare. Everyone should have it regardless of economic or social status.

Call me a commie if you must .... :drama


:killinme

I suppose government assuming an area of intrusion that Scripture is against is alright with you.......

[Truly Blessed]

I suppose government assuming an area of intrusion that Scripture is against is alright with you.......Can you explain why you have made this statement?

[Scott Hutchinson]

I guess the Canadian dentists are great ,eh ?

[ReformedDave]

Can you explain why you have made this statement?

Scripture sets forth the principles of a limited government and is against the taking of something that doesn't belong to it through taxation.

When I am forced to pay for health insurance for someone else that is theft. BTW, I'm sure they are having to pay for abortions also.

[Truly Blessed]

Scripture sets forth the principles of a limited government and is against the taking of something that doesn't belong to it through taxation.

When I am forced to pay for health insurance for someone else that is theft. BTW, I'm sure they are having to pay for abortions also.So how do you square this with Jesus' saying give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar? Secondly, I disagree with your assessment that the government is forcing me to pay for health insurance. I have received much more in medical care than I have ever paid into the government to cover health insurance. I am happy to pay for the coverage. I just found it surprising that the BC government collects premiums directly from us.

[ReformedDave]

So how do you square this with Jesus' saying give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar? Secondly, I disagree with your assessment that the government is forcing me to pay for health insurance. I have received much more in medical care than I have ever paid into the government to cover health insurance. I am happy to pay for the coverage. I just found it surprising that the BC government collects premiums directly from us.

You have an option to pay for insurance? You may be 'happy' to pay for it but that doesn't mean you have choice.

Give to Caesar what is rightfully his. When the government takes what isn't their's that is government sanctioned theft and they will answer to God.

[Nina]

You have an option to pay for insurance? You may be 'happy' to pay for it but that doesn't mean you have choice.

Give to Caesar what is rightfully his. When the government takes what isn't their's that is government sanctioned theft and they will answer to God.

Bro G

I believe wholeheartedly with Your position on the unconstitutionality of our socialist healthcare system.
I believe that in a righteous society Christians would be taking care of the poor instead of pouring their "tithes" into a system that is "enlarging" itself
ie "churches". (reminds me of Hell)
I also believe we should render unto Caesar.
I just am not sure what is Caesar's...
Are You?

Nina

[Scott Hutchinson]

What is Ceasar's exactly in a socialistic setting ?

[Nina]

Bro Scott,
That is the $64,000.00 question.
Nina

If You see a qrease-covered young man, driving a dark blue Chevy 6-10,
that's probably my son, Joseph. He's been in Jackson a month now. He's 24 years old and just moved out on his own.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Bro Scott,
That is the $64,000.00 question.
Nina

If You see a qrease-covered young man, driving a dark blue Chevy 6-10,
that's probably my son, Joseph. He's been in Jackson a month now. He's 24 years old and just moved out on his own.

He'd be welcome to come to our church. PM me his number and I'll invite him.

[Sam]

...
In Canada, we pay 108 dollars a month in pemiums to the Government for access to that healthcare system.
...


My wife and I are on Medicare. $93.50 is deducted from her Social Security check and also from my Social Security check each month to cover Medicare. I also receive a pension check from GE. I retired at 60 after 32 years there. Each month $208.00 is deducted from my pension check for a supplemental health care insurance policy called United Health Care.

So, for two people, our total healthcare insurance (Medicare plus a supplement) is $395 per month.

[Nina]

Bro Scott,

Joseph works in Jackson but has been driving in from Mobile each morning. He stays with his girlfriends Sister and Bro-in-law there. But he works all around Jackson.
Thanks for the invite anyway. I'm hoping my husband will be working down that way soon so we can meet.

Nina

[Sam]

...
Should someone go without healthcare because they can't afford it?
...
Healthcare for everyone is a right!

Should someone go without healthcare because they can't afford it?
Should someone go without a house because they can't afford it?
Should someone go without a car because they can't afford it?
Should someone go without clothing because they can't afford it?
Should someone go without food because they can't afford it?
Should someone go without a college education because they can't afford it?
Should someone go without a vacation trip because they can't afford it?
Should someone go without a pet because they can't afford it?
Should someone go without a vacation home because they can't afford it?
Should someone go without a pleasure boat or motorcycle because they can't afford it?

Good questions

[BrotherEastman]

We wouldn't have to worry about healthcare in America if we voted for Michael Savage.

[ChristopherHall]

The role of the Federal government should be limited. In American it was originally that way. It is becoming socialistic and at times almost communistic.

The government is to carry out the 'wishes' and rules of the constitution....not the whims of the people.

Healthcare is not an entitlement. Not a 'right' and it is not the federal governments' job to provide it.

Ummmm....I have serious disagreement with this notion. First...we need to understand something that supersedes the Constitution:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --" - The Declaration of Independence

It is a fundamental Christian principle that our rights are unalienable rights given to us...by God...not the Constitution. Among these God given rights is the right to "Life". This has awesome moral implications. In America this year an estimated 18,000 Americans will die because they couldn't afford health insurance or were denied coverage for a health care procedure they couldn't afford. Why? What was their crime? Their only crime was being poor and becoming sick. Somewhere along the way we Americans have been brain washed by the corporate health care establishment that we don't have an unalienable right to life given to us by our creator. Because if we woke up one day and understood this we would demand that the Government instituted among us, deriving it's just powers from us, would secure this right for ALL Americans regardless of their ability to pay.

The American Health Care System is a glaring abomination against God. Please understand, the Canadian system isn't perfect I know...but it's better than what we have here in the US. Many of us fail to understand that health care is rationed in the US. Yes...it is rationed between those who can pay and those who cannot pay. You better be able to pay because these companies will watch you lay their and die if you cannot. Because to them if they cannot profit from you're sickness...you're just flat out of luck. In the coming year another estimated 18,000 Americans will be denied their unalienable right to life because of corporate greed and the profit driven American health care system.

The American system would bill you for the very air in your lungs...it does bill some for the very air in their lungs already. Consider how nearly 25,000 Americans have filed bankruptcy because they couldn't pay the medical bills they acquired in their efforts to merely have the right to stay alive. Oh...those unpaid bills will be paid by the way. The loss will be passed down to the rest of us who are insured in the form of higher premiums. And guess what...more folks won't be able to afford health insurance. That's why the number of the uninsured has gone up to nearly 50 million already. This system is broken and we need to trash it and do what every other Westernized nation has done...institute a national health insurance program.

[ChristopherHall]

As a Canadian I pay for my healthcare through my taxes.
I also am of the opinion that the life of a poor person is of the same value as that of an upper middle class white person.

Amen. That view is enshrined in the Declaration of Independence. All men are created equal and have been granted by their creator with certain unalienable rights. You're more "American" in your belief than the those free market Americans who support the profit driven health care system in our United States.

[ChristopherHall]

You certainly do pay! That's a case of government overstepping it's bounds.

The Canadian government didn't force this on the people. The Canadian people democratically supported the system, therefore the Government was responding to the will of the people...not overstepping it's bounds.

And yes...they pay. They pay an estimated $108 a month for their health insurance. Guess what...most Americans who have a UHC traditional family plan will pay an estimated $260 a month for the private plan. Which is economically more conservative and cost effective? The rates are lower in single payer systems thus allowing individuals and businesses to invest more money, businesses can offer more raises and even hire more employees. The system has proven to stimulate the economy in study after study in Canada, France, and Britain. The estimated cost of shifting this into the public sector would raise the cost of health care (as it we're currently seeing in the United States), reduce investment, leave more citizens with less money to put back into the economy. Also businesses would have to lay off workers and offer fewer raises to pay for the private system (something else we see in the US.). The privatized system is an abysmal failure.

Value of Life? No problem with that but I find it also immoral for government to steal from one to give to another.

Remember that in God's Law all land owners were required to leave the edges and corners of their fields for the needy, strangers, orphans, and widows. Was God stealing from the land owner? Were the magistrates stealing from the land owners when they held them to the Law? Remember that in Isaiah and in Amos God promised to destroy the nation of Israel because they neglected social justice to the poor and needy among them.

[ChristopherHall]

Our government is clearly mandated to provide healthcare and a social network because we are a caring society.
I do find it interesting that Americans (even Christians) have such a problem with caring for the less fortunate in their society.

American Christianity has been hijacked by corporate interests. Pray for our nation!

[ChristopherHall]

Can you explain to me what is socialism(in health care) and how it differs from your system?

I've never condoned suffering. I think it immoral to take from one by government force and give to another. As Christians we should voluntarily be doing this. The church has stopped almost all charity and given it to the government who has become our savior.

If you're serious I know a family that needs nearly $150,000 for cancer treatments they cannot afford. Please PM me and I'll email their address to you and tell you who to make the check out to.

[ChristopherHall]

I agree. This is not to say that there are possibilities for sin in a capitalistic system. As long as there is fallen man there will be abuse. But the Biblical pattern of private property and ownership, capitalism, and proper taxation is still found in Scripture and government funding of health care isn't.

The CEO of UHC got 1.6 BILLION dollars in stock options. Mean while an estimated 18,000 Americans died because they couldn't afford coverage...and that was only 2006.

[ChristopherHall]

If I ever desired to be part of a Socialist healthcare system Canada would be one of the better ones.

However I don't think that day is ever going to come. Oh, I think the day will come when the Dems have their way and we will have socialized medicene, I just don't think the day will come when I desire that.

Canada has a much more homogenized populous and economy than the USA. They don't have as many lazy worthless ghetto bums for the government to take their hard earned dollars to pay for their six or seven illigetimate children,etc.

We already have socialized medicine. The US armed forces receive top notch government health care. So do prisoners. It's hard working Americans who sustain this country that are denied coverage and 18,000 of us die a year of treatable conditions because they cannot afford health insurance. Health Care Coverage in their case was rationed to those who could afford it.

[ChristopherHall]

There are no studies that have shown conclusively that second hand smoking causes cancer.

That's right bro...smoking is only bad for the smoker...the smoke doesn't harm anyone else. Riiiight? If you smoke you'll see how bold I am. Waiting near the bar of a restaurant and asked that those smoking put out their cigarettes until my family got seated. They didn't take me seriously...until I stood up and raised my voice and told them I had a 9 month old child in my party and I was only going to ask them one more time.

[ChristopherHall]

Scripture sets forth the principles of a limited government and is against the taking of something that doesn't belong to it through taxation.

When I am forced to pay for health insurance for someone else that is theft. BTW, I'm sure they are having to pay for abortions also.

If you're paying taxes for a universal health insurance program you're paying for a system that insures all Americans, including you. Do you believe that you shouldn't pay taxes to support police and fire just because you've never needed to call them?

[ChristopherHall]

Support H.R. 676

http://www.pnhp.org/publications/the_national_health_insurance_bill_hr_676.php

[Ron]

Brother these are all good points.

I am a Canadian & while I do agree the system we have is not perfect,
during my recent injury it was there for me and I was thoroughly pleased with
the care I received!

[ChristopherHall]

Amnesia and the Christian Social Conscience
By Bro. Christopher Hall

Today in America most Christian have embraced a social theory that is fundamentally at odds with the Christian social ethic. Much of this theory is rooted in the Social Darwinist thought of the modern anarcho-capitalism. This fundamental social theory is built upon the idea that all things are to be produced and provided for financial profit at any expense. “Conservative” political groups have tirelessly sought to appeal to the Christian voter and persuade them that capitalism in all it’s glories of free market trade will bring utopia, justice, and fairness to America’s social fabric. However in America 18,000 people die each year from treatable medical conditions simply because they cannot afford treatment. Another 25,000 Americans will file bankruptcy and loose everything they have ever worked for because they too couldn’t afford insurance, were denied insurance, and couldn’t afford medical treatment. Cancer patients who are unable to pay the high costs for medical treatment often find themselves part way through treatments only to have to discontinue treatment once their finances dry up. This is in America. America has the highest infant mortality rate than any Westernized country because our non-health non-care system is an abysmal failure. Every Westernized nation has a universal heath insurance program that ensures that every citizen can have access to the most basic medical treatments that can save their lives...accept the United States. The United States came in at the bottom of Westernized nations in terms of our health care system and the moral and political will to do something about this crime against humanity appears to be beaten out of citizens by the corporate powers that be that control the modern media. Even traditionally liberal political entities have been paid off and cut deals with Americans private insurance monstrosities. Sadly Christians have embraced this Social Darwinist agenda believing in a survival of the richest. This social non-conscience believes that if one has the money for insurance or treatment they are indeed entitled to it; however if one is too poor to afford insurance or cannot afford treatment they have no entitlement to procedures that may very well save their very lives. As a Christian I can honestly say that I have become furious at the current Right Wing Christian establishment and its unholy marriage with the Social Darwinism of free market capitalism. It’s time that Christians revaluate what it means to be “Christian” and what it means to believe in “Christian values” and how those values are to be implemented in our society. Also Christians have been force fed a fear of the government bordering on paranoia. It seems that Christians have been taught that corporations, not a democratically elected government, can protect their rights. Sadly this is the reverse of the truth. Corporate powers care nothing about individuals; they only care for their profit margins. If a corporation can save money by letting people die and can get by with it they will. However, a democratically elected government is answerable to the people it governs and is instituted to protect their rights. In a democratic society the Government represents “us”, “We the people”. To tie the hands of government against responding to social injustice and corporate greed is to surrender the power of the people to special interests and billion dollar corporate conglomerates. It should be noted that it is the corporate powers that be that are slowly working on surrendering US sovereignty in the name of NAFTA and CAFTA.

I believe that it is full agreement with biblical and Christian social ethics to take a stand for a universal health insurance program in the United States. Here, those Christians who have bought into the Social Darwinist free market capitalist nightmare will scream “Socialism!” Let them scream, they can label it anything they like…it’s a Christian duty to care for the least of our people as a nation. If one person dies because they cannot afford a procedure it is too many. Let’s look closely at this Right Wing paranoia against Government and failure to understand government’s role in a humane and Christian society. Let’s begin by looking at the Declaration of Independence:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --" - The Declaration of Independence

The Declaration of Independence declares the fundamental truths that all men are created equal. That all men are endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights and among “these” rights are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. And how are these rights guaranteed to a nation’s citizenry? Are these rights guaranteed by corporate powers, wealthy land owners, charity, churches, or private organizations? No. The Declaration of Independence declares that governments are instituted among men to secure these rights as they derive their just powers from the consent of the governed, that means “us”. So yes, it is a nation’s government that is charged with securing fundamental liberties and protects our right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

[ChristopherHall]

That leads us to health care. For all Americans health care is a basic necessity for survival. For our elderly it is a pre-eminent need. When 18,000 Americans are dying a year because they cannot afford insurance we are witnessing a tragedy. They are being denied the right to live…and their only crime is being poor. Therefore it is the just duty, domain, and jurisdiction of government to step in and secure the right of every American to health insurance that all life saving treatment is provided to all. For human rights (namely the right to live) are being denied by the powers of the private industry simply because it isn’t “profitable” to treat the poor who cannot pay.

Before those who have a fear of Socialism scream in protest consider the following:

Our Founding Fathers saw a terrible injustice in early America. Only the wealthy could afford to send their children to schools and be educated. It was the conviction of our Founding Fathers that a public educational institution be created to ensure the most basic and fundamental education be provided to all Americans regardless of economic status.

Early in America’s history the poor…unemployed, single mothers, and the sick were often sent to poor houses, or work houses. These institutions were primarily run by churches and private Christian charities…however the bulk of funding was generally provided by the local county as generated by property taxes. This system, supported by our Founding Fathers, is seen throughout early America as far back as the late 1700’s and early 1800’s. Soon this system expanded throughout entire states and grew into the system we know as welfare today. Yes, it was originally governmental aid provided on the grounds of Christian social conscience. The state government’s assumption of administration was to assist churches and Christian charities who were increasingly finding themselves unable to manage the increasing burden as the population grew. During the 1930’s, immediately following the Great Depression, the Federal Government launched programs to assist the state with funding of their welfare programs and the generation of jobs for those capable of work. This Federal assistance and oversight continued until the 90’s when President Clinton’s welfare reforms shortened welfare rolls and handed more responsibility back to individual states.

Also our Founding Fathers created the United States Postal service. While private companies providing mail services has grown in recent decades, the existence of the public system and it’s lower rates has served to stabilize costs and keep the private industry from raising costs too high for excessive profit.

And these are just a few of the examples that come to my mind at present. Our Founding Fathers didn’t possess the paranoia against government nor did they embrace the notion that the government’s role is to be absolutely curtailed when government action would indeed serve the public interest and strengthen the fabric of society. So the Right Wing Christian and their Social Darwinist social theory of the survival of the fittest without any government assistance has no solid historic grounds for their position.

We who are Christian have a cognitive dissonance in our thought processes. Our faith teaches us that a just and Christian society will care for the least and poorest of our people…yet our marriage with the Social Darwinism of modern free market capitalism tells us otherwise. So there is a psychological strain. This strain is best reduced by vending such frustration against the “liberal” in our midst who inconveniently reminds us of our neglected calling to be salt and light to a society, shaping our world into a world of justice and compassion. The Corporate elite whom we have become servants keep us in a daze and when we begin to wake up they begin working on our fears (abortion, civil unions, etc.) to activate our prejudices. This is done so that we will not question the current powers of the private industry that is dominating the American political landscape. They consistently chant that the answer isn’t governmental action…but rather more tax cuts, more tax rebate, more money for their institutions. However, consider this…in 2005, while an estimated 18,000 Americans were dying because they couldn’t afford health care,….the CEO of United Health Care, Dr. William McGuire, received 1.6 BILLION dollars in stock options. They don’t need tax cuts, tax rebates, or more release from paying their fair share…they need to be prosecuted.

Therefore it is high time that anyone who considers themselves “Christian” stand up and say “no more”. It’s time for Christians to embrace the idea of a National Health Insurance program in the United States of America. American compassion and innovation will make the American system the best in the world quickly. It’s time to stand up against this social evil. Christians took a stand against slavery and racism. Now it’s time to stand up to the private powers that be that are allowing Americans to die simply because they see no profit in providing them coverage.

[ChristopherHall]

Here is a listing of statistical data collected from the American Society of Registered Nurses:

When we surveyed select counties across the world for life expectancy, which was defined as the life expectancy at birth for both sexes, the U.S. fared very poorly.

The U.S. came in 17th, tied with Cyprus, with a life expectancy of 78.0. Here are the countries in the top 17: Japan (81.4); Switzerland (80.6); Sweden (80.6); Australia (80.6); Canada (80.3); Italy (79.9); France (79.9); Spain (79.8); Norway (79.7); Israel (79.6); Greece (79.4); Austria (79.2); New Zealand (79.0); Germany (79.0); U.K. (78.7); Finland (78.7); Cyprus (78.0); and the U.S. (78.0).

In our survey of select countries across the world for infant mortality, which was defined as the number of deaths per 1,000 live births, the U.S. again did poorly.

The U.S. came in 16th, below South Korea, with an infant mortality rate of 6.4. Here are the countries in the top 16: Sweden (2.8); Japan (3.2); Finland (3.5); Norway (3.6); Czech Republic (3.9); France (4.2); Spain (4.3); Denmark (4.5); Austria (4.5); Canada (4.6); Australia (4.6); Portugal (4.9); UK (5.0); New Zealand (5.7); South Korea (6.1); U.S. (6.4).

The next question is whether the U.S. truly spends more than any other country in the world on healthcare. This would indeed indicate a mismanagement of funds budgeted for the healthcare system.

While there may be mitigating circumstances, these would have to be deemed controllable by the most powerful nation on earth.

We then surveyed per capita health expenditures, by country, which was defined as the sum of public and private expenditures, in U.S. dollars, divided by the population. Health expenditure includes the provision of health services (preventive and curative); family planning activities, nutrition activities and emergency aid designated for health, but excludes the provision of water and sanitation.

The U.S. spends $5,711 per person. That's a whopping 33% more the next highest spending country, Norway. Norway spends only $3,809 per person.

Here are the top 27 highest per capita spending countries in the world: U.S. ($5,711); Norway ($3,809); Switzerland ($3,776); Luxembourg ($3,776); Iceland ($3,110); Germany ($3,001); Canada ($2,989); Netherlands ($2,987); France ($2,902); Australia ($2,874); Denmark ($2,762); Sweden ($2,704); Ireland ($2,496); U.K. ($2,389); Austria ($2,306); Italy ($2,266); Japan ($2,244); Finland ($2,108); Greece ($1,997); Israel ($1,911); New Zealand ($1,893); Spain ($1,853); Portugal ($1,791); Slovenia ($1,669); Malta ($1,436); Czech Republic ($1,302).

Finally, If the U.S. truly has the "best health care system in the world" you'd expect it to have the highest number of physicians per 100,000 people. Or else it should be very, very close to the top of the list.

However, this time the results are shocking. The U.S. isn't even on the list of the top thirty countries in the world that have the highest number of physicians per 100,000 people.

These top 30 countries are, by number of physicians to 100,000 people: Cuba (591); Saint Lucia (517); Belarus (455); Belgium (449); Estonia (448); Greece (438); Russian Federation (425); Italy (420); Turkmenistan (418); Georgia (409); Lithuania (397); Israel (382); Uruguay (365); Iceland (362); Switzerland (361); Armenia (359); Bulgaria (356); Azerbaijan (355); Kazakhstan (354); Czech Republic (351); Portugal (342); Austria (338); France (337); Germany (337); Hungary (333); Spain (330); Sweden (328); Lebanon (325); Malta (318); Slovakia (318).

[ChristopherHall]

Wow. Looks like that "socialized" health insurance stuff is quite a failure. Not.

[Aquila]

Do Canadians wish they had a health care system like America's?

[TRIPLE E]

Do Canadians wish they had a health care system like America's?

Definately not.

[Mrs. LPW]

Do Canadians wish they had a health care system like America's?

Nope!

[Destiny2]

Never!

[Monkeyman]

as an American living in Canada.....NOPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ChristopherHall]

Would you believe that a man I really respect and have counted as an internet buddy on forums told me,

I hate your politics and wish you and everyone like you would just move

He said this because I advocate for universal health insurance coverage and greater focus on domestic security in relation to terror in the United States, not real big on the Pres's Iraq policy. Dude...that's just incredible. There may come a time when I have to leave America and have to seek political asylum in Canada. LOL

[ChristopherHall]

I wonder...since being a Christian in America requires that you agree with political conservatives in America on all points...do they think Canadians, who are typically more liberal politically than American Christians, are lost?

[ChristopherHall]

Isn't it funny how many conservative Americans have a lot to say about the Canadian health care system...but they're not willing to talk to Canadians about it?

[ReformedDave]

Isn't it funny how many conservative Americans have a lot to say about the Canadian health care system...but they're not willing to talk to Canadians about it?

Not entirely true. My cousins live in London Ontario and have had their real problems with the system.

[Felicity]

Our healthcare system isn't perfect. There are problems, but personally speaking I and my family have always been taken care of quickly and efficiently whenever there was any kind of problem. Thankfully, we've all been very healthy with only minor issues from time to time.

What I don't understand is the condescending superior sneering attitude many Americans (even on this forum) have shown toward our healthcare system and country.

I sure haven't seen that on the part of Canadians toward the US, and I sure can't see where the American healthcare system is any better. So it's not like they can hold their system up as the model everyone should use. So why the attitude? ;)

This post isn't directed to anybody in particular. Just some thots I've had for a while now as I've read comments in general.

[Barb]

Our healthcare system isn't perfect. There are problems, but personally speaking I and my family have always been taken care of quickly and efficiently whenever there was any kind of problem. Thankfully, we've all been very healthy with only minor issues from time to time.

What I don't understand is the condescending superior sneering attitude many Americans (even on this forum) have shown toward our healthcare system.

I sure haven't seen that on the part of Canadians toward the US, and I sure can't see where the American healthcare system is any better. So it's not like they can hold their system up as the model everyone should use. So why the attitude? ;)

This post isn't directed to anybody in particular. Just some thots I've had for a while now as I've read comments in general.
As an American who has not had sufficient healthcare, and only as of last week finally has Blue Cross...and as one who will be in the days and weeks to come having to deal with further insufficiencies in the system, I can only say that our way is not the better way.

Whew...long sentence, eh?!

[Felicity]

Do Canadians wish they had a health care system like America's?

Definately not.

Nope!

Never!

as an American living in Canada.....NOPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!So there you have it. In the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses let the fact that Canada's healthcare system is a good one and one to be thankful for be established! Ha!

And my Yankee husband would agree and so would other Americans I know who are living in Canada.

[Felicity]

As an American who has not had sufficient healthcare, and only as of last week finally has Blue Cross...and as one who will be in the days and weeks to come having to deal with further insufficiencies in the system, I can only say that our way is not the better way.

Whew...long sentence, eh?!If you were a Canadian you'd have already been in and out of hospital and on the road to recovery weeks ago.

[Truly Blessed]

I have lived in Canada since 1973 and I personally know of no one who has lost their home, had to file bankruptcy, had to choose between going to the doctor or feeding their children, etc. because they had no Health Care Plan. Can you Americans say the same? I know that I have family who have gone through severe financial difficulty because of health care cost in the USA. Americans SHOULD be embarrassed to be the only country in the developed world that does not offer its citizens public tax-based health care.

Should the USA admit they got it wrong years ago and immediately do whatever they must to correct their mistake? Read the following article by Holly Dressel and YOU decide!

"Should the United States implement a more inclusive, publicly funded health care system? That's a big debate throughout the country. But even as it rages, most Americans are unaware that the United States is the only country in the developed world that doesn't already have a fundamentally public--that is, tax-supported--health care system.

That means that the United States has been the unwitting control subject in a 30-year, worldwide experiment comparing the merits of private versus public health care funding. For the people living in the United States, the results of this experiment with privately funded health care have been grim. The United States now has the most expensive health care system on earth and, despite remarkable technology, the general health of the U.S. population is lower than in most industrialized countries. Worse, Americans' mortality rates--both general and infant--are shockingly high.

To be continued....

[Truly Blessed]

Article by Holly Dressel continued...

Infant mortality

Infant mortality rates, which reflect the health of the mother and her access to prenatal and postnatal care, are considered one of the most reliable measures of the general health of a population. Today, U.S. government statistics rank Canada's infant mortality rate of 4.7 per thousand 23rd out of 225 countries, in the company of the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Australia, and Denmark. The U.S. is 43rd--in the company of Croatia and Lithuania, below Taiwan and Cuba.

All the countries surrounding Canada or above it in the rankings have tax-supported health care systems. The countries surrounding the United States and below have mixed systems or are, in general, extremely poor in comparison to the United States and the other G8 industrial powerhouses.

There are no major industrialized countries near the United States in the rankings. The closest is Italy, at 5.83 infants dying per thousand, but it is still ranked five places higher.7

In the United States, infant mortality rates are 7.1 per 1,000, the highest in the industrialized world -- much higher than some of the poorer states in India, for example, which have public health systems in place, at least for mothers and infants. Among the inner-city poor in the United States, more than 8 percent of mothers receive no prenatal care at all before giving birth.

[ReformedDave]

I have lived in Canada since 1973 and I personally know of no one who has lost their home, had to file bankruptcy, had to choose between going to the doctor or feeding their children, etc. because they had no Health Care Plan. Can you Americans say the same? I know that I have family who have gone through severe financial difficulty because of health care cost in the USA. Americans SHOULD be embarrassed to be the only country in the developed world that does not offer its citizens public tax-based health care.

Should the USA admit they got it wrong years ago and immediately do whatever they must to correct their mistake? Read the following article by Holly Dressel and YOU decide!

"Should the United States implement a more inclusive, publicly funded health care system? That's a big debate throughout the country. But even as it rages, most Americans are unaware that the United States is the only country in the developed world that doesn't already have a fundamentally public--that is, tax-supported--health care system.

That means that the United States has been the unwitting control subject in a 30-year, worldwide experiment comparing the merits of private versus public health care funding. For the people living in the United States, the results of this experiment with privately funded health care have been grim. The United States now has the most expensive health care system on earth and, despite remarkable technology, the general health of the U.S. population is lower than in most industrialized countries. Worse, Americans' mortality rates--both general and infant--are shockingly high.

To be continued....

As one who works in healthcare I agree that there are grevious holes that must be fix but the question is "How"? Not by higher taxes and more government intervention.

Interestingly enough I see, every day, many women who come across our border that choose to deliver their babies in one of the finest birthing centers in the nation and we give them the same care as if they could pay....of coarse they can't nor do they intend to.

[Truly Blessed]

Overall U.S. mortality

We would have expected to see steady decreases in deaths per thousand in the mid-twentieth century, because so many new drugs and procedures were becoming available. But neither the Canadian nor the American mortality rate declined much; in fact, Canada's leveled off for an entire decade, throughout the 1960s. This was a period in which private care was increasing in Canadian hospitals, and the steady mortality rates reflect the fact that most people simply couldn't afford the new therapies that were being offered. However, beginning in 1971, the same year that Canada's Medicare was fully applied, official statistics show that death rates suddenly plummeted, maintaining a steep decline to their present rate.

In the United States, during the same period, overall mortality rates also dropped, reflecting medical advances. But they did not drop nearly so precipitously as those in Canada after 1971. But given that the United States is the richest country on earth, today's overall mortality rates are shockingly high, at 8.4 per thousand, compared to Canada's 6.5.

[ReformedDave]

Article by Holly Dressel continued...

Infant mortality

Infant mortality rates, which reflect the health of the mother and her access to prenatal and postnatal care, are considered one of the most reliable measures of the general health of a population. Today, U.S. government statistics rank Canada's infant mortality rate of 4.7 per thousand 23rd out of 225 countries, in the company of the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Australia, and Denmark. The U.S. is 43rd--in the company of Croatia and Lithuania, below Taiwan and Cuba.

All the countries surrounding Canada or above it in the rankings have tax-supported health care systems. The countries surrounding the United States and below have mixed systems or are, in general, extremely poor in comparison to the United States and the other G8 industrial powerhouses.

There are no major industrialized countries near the United States in the rankings. The closest is Italy, at 5.83 infants dying per thousand, but it is still ranked five places higher.7

In the United States, infant mortality rates are 7.1 per 1,000, the highest in the industrialized world -- much higher than some of the poorer states in India, for example, which have public health systems in place, at least for mothers and infants. Among the inner-city poor in the United States, more than 8 percent of mothers receive no prenatal care at all before giving birth.

Does the study take into account that many of these deaths result from premature births due to artificial means of conception? I wonder if these procedures would be covered by the Canadian system. My guess is that they would not therefore not as readily performed.

[Truly Blessed]

Rich and poor

It has become increasingly apparent, as data accumulate, that the overall improvement in health in a society with tax-supported health care translates to better health even for the rich, the group assumed to be the main beneficiaries of the American-style private system. If we look just at the 5.7 deaths per thousand among presumably richer, white babies in the United States, Canada still does better at 4.7, even though the Canadian figure includes all ethnic groups and all income levels. Perhaps a one-per-thousand difference doesn't sound like much. But when measuring mortality, it's huge. If the U.S. infant mortality rate were the same as Canada's, almost 15,000 more babies would survive in the United States every year.

If we consider the statistics for the poor, which in the United States have been classified by race, we find that in 2001, infants born of black mothers were dying at a rate of 14.2 per thousand. That's a Third World figure, comparable to Russia's.8

But now that the United States has begun to do studies based on income levels instead of race, these "cultural" and genetic explanations are turning out to be baseless. Infant mortality is highest among the poor, regardless of race.

Vive la différence! Genetically, Canadians and Americans are quite similar. Our health habits, too, are very much alike -- people in both countries eat too much and exercise too little. And, like the United States, there is plenty of inequality in Canada, too. In terms of health care, that inequality falls primarily on Canadians in isolated communities, particularly Native groups, who have poorer access to medical care and are exposed to greater environmental contamination. The only major difference between the two countries that could account for the remarkable disparity in their infant and adult mortality rates, as well as the amount they spend on health care, is how they manage their health care systems.

The facts are clear: Before 1971, when both countries had similar, largely privately funded health care systems, overall survival and mortality rates were almost identical. The divergence appeared with the introduction of the single-payer health system in Canada.

The solid statistics amassed since the 1970s point to only one conclusion: like it or not, believe it makes sense or not, publicly funded, universally available health care is simply the most powerful contributing factor to the overall health of the people who live in any country. And in the United States, we have got the bodies to prove it.

[Truly Blessed]

Does the study take into account that many of these deaths result from premature births due to artificial means of conception? I wonder if these procedures would be covered by the Canadian system. My guess is that they would not therefore not as readily performed.My understanding is that they are covered under the Canadian system.

[Truly Blessed]

Why would the USA want to go it alone, in a direction that has proven to be hazardous to your health, when the evidence is overwhelming that government has got it wrong all these years?

[ReformedDave]

My understanding is that they are covered under the Canadian system.

All forms of artificial birth are covered? If you get the chance could you find out exactly what procedures are covered and how many times are administered? They are VERY expensive.

[Truly Blessed]

Holly Dressel

Holly Dressel was born south of Chicago and lives in Montreal, Quebec. She is a writer/researcher and the best-selling co-author, with David Suzuki, of Good News for a Change and other works.

This article was adapted from Holly Dressel's book God Save the Queen—God Save Us All: An Examination of Canadian Hospital Care via the Life and Death of Montreal's Queen Elizabeth Hospital, published in 2007 by McGill/Queen's Press.

[Truly Blessed]

All forms of artificial birth are covered? If you get the chance could you find out exactly what procedures are covered and how many times are administered? They are VERY expensive.I will see what I can find out for you. I have a friend who was the CEO of the Regional Health Care Authority here in NB. He would most likely know the answer.

[ReformedDave]

I will see what I can find out for you. I have a friend who was the CEO of the Regional Health Care Authority here in NB. He would most likely know the answer.

I just looked on a few sites and it appears that reproductive drugs are only partially covered in a few of the providences and IVF not at all.

Try googleing "reproductive health Canada"

[Barb]

If you were a Canadian you'd have already been in and out of hospital and on the road to recovery weeks ago.

Ahhhh, from your lips to the Lord's ears...I receive it!! :highfive

[ChristopherHall]

As one who works in healthcare I agree that there are grevious holes that must be fix but the question is "How"? Not by higher taxes and more government intervention.

Interestingly enough I see, every day, many women who come across our border that choose to deliver their babies in one of the finest birthing centers in the nation and we give them the same care as if they could pay....of coarse they can't nor do they intend to.

Myth. The vast majority of Canadians do not choose American hospitals to have their children in.

I got a story on this. My aunt Marta had a baby at NYU Medical Center....in a closet because they couldn't find her a bed! She said that in the middle of labor custodians were going in and out to get cleaning supplies. LOL

[ChristopherHall]

Our family has a cottage in Outlet Ontario we vacation at every year. I can honestly say that I have become very embarrassed over the American health care system.

[ReformedDave]

Myth. The vast majority of Canadians do not choose American hospitals to have their children in.

I got a story on this. My aunt Marta had a baby at NYU Medical Center....in a closet because they couldn't find her a bed! She said that in the middle of labor custodians were going in and out to get cleaning supplies. LOL



I'm not talking about Canada. I told you I live in San Diego........get a map.

[ChristopherHall]

I'm not talking about Canada. I told you I live in San Diego........get a map.

So they come from Mexico? If so...of course! Going to a hospital in the Phillipines would be better than going to a Hospital in Mexico.

But the point is...Canadians could give us some lessons when it comes to Health Care.

[ChristopherHall]

American Medical Association commercial..

http://www.bigshouldersdubs.com/clients/AMA/webpost/V-Sarah-w2.html

[ChristopherHall]

So far none of our Canadian brethren have been convinced that they should adopt an American-like health care system? LOL

I have a question. In America the idea of a national health insurance program bitterly divides conservatives and liberals in the US. In Canada are Canadian conservatives opposed to your system or have you largely reached a consensus that it is necessary?

[Mrs. LPW]

So far none of our Canadian brethren have been convinced that they should adopt an American-like health care system? LOL

I have a question. In America the idea of a national health insurance program bitterly divides conservatives and liberals in the US. In Canada are Canadian conservatives opposed to your system or have you largely reached a consensus that it is necessary?

I think we've all agreed it's necessary.... and I hope our people would be smart enough not to elect a leader or a party that felt that the healthcare should be for the rich and insured only.

Healthcare is often an issue in our elections but it's not a matter of should we adopt the US healthcare system.. for the most part. IT's about putting more money toward it.

[ChristopherHall]

I think we've all agreed it's necessary.... and I hope our people would be smart enough not to elect a leader or a party that felt that the healthcare should be for the rich and insured only.

Healthcare is often an issue in our elections but it's not a matter of should we adopt the US healthcare system.. for the most part. IT's about putting more money toward it.

Cool. Can you tell me about malpractice laws in Canada? Do your doctors enjoy more freedom from the risk of malpractice lawsuits?

[Mrs. LPW]

Cool. Can you tell me about malpractice laws in Canada? Do your doctors enjoy more freedom from the risk of malpractice lawsuits?

Not sure on that... I don't think we have as many suits. But I'm just judging by the amount of things I hear about in the news.. it doesn't seem as prevalent. I really couldn't answer that knowledgeably.

[ChristopherHall]

I'm still hearing horror stories about the Canadian Health Care system. Do any of you Canadian brothers and/or sisters have any links to details on your system and how it works?

What's your opinion of your system? Better than the that in the US or worse as we are told down here?

[Mrs. LPW]

Canadian Healthcare is no more horrific than not being able to afford healthcare at all when you need it or your children need it.
If my heart gives out on me tomorrow, I won't need to fear having a huge bill I cannot pay or leaving behind a huge debt for family members to grapple with.

I don't think you could find the perfect situation in any country.