Do You Attend a Local Church and Tithe to It?

[Jehoram]

Since so many posters have an issue with pastors receiving compensation I thought the question a good one.

[Steve Epley]

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooops!!!!! !!!!!!!!

[Scott Hutchinson]

I attend the First Pentecostal Of Jackson ,AL and I do support the church moniterialy.

[Jehoram]

Hmm, not nearly as much activity on this thread.

[Jehoram]

Wow, still only two posts!

[COOPER]

Wow, still only two posts!

:sshhh i voted

[Trouvere]

I voted yes and I do

[Michael The Disciple]

I dont think many people at all have a problem with a Pastor being paid. I have a problem with a Pastor who wont Pastor UNLESS he is paid. The problem is when Pastors feel they must be paid to do the ministry.

Paul certainly did not feel this way. Neither did he teach the Elders of the New Testament Churches he established.

33: I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel.
34: Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me.
35: I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive. Acts 20:33-35

Paul taught the Elders here WORK WITH YOUR OWN HANDS dont think you MUST receive tithes.

I rejoice to send offerings to Preachers who preach truth. From our side we should want to communicate to them financially. From their side they should be willing to work day and night as Paul did so as not to be a burden on the Saints.

[Trouvere]

I dont think many people at all have a problem with a Pastor being paid. I have a problem with a Pastor who wont Pastor UNLESS he is paid. The problem is when Pastors feel they must be paid to do the ministry.

Paul certainly did not feel this way. Neither did he teach the Elders of the New Testament Churches he established.

33: I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel.
34: Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me.
35: I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive. Acts 20:33-35

Paul taught the Elders here WORK WITH YOUR OWN HANDS dont think you MUST receive tithes.

I rejoice to send offerings to Preachers who preach truth. From our side we should want to communicate to them financially. From their side they should be willing to work day and night as Paul did so as not to be a burden on the Saints.

You don't attend a local assembly?I just noted you said send.
I also noticed that Paul was saying he did not want to be a burden on the saints.Just a few highlights about that.We are probably alot wealthier than they were then.Truthfully the kings of old did not live as well as some of us.They may have had big stone fortresses but where was the air condition? For us to bless or support a missionary as Paul was it would not be a burden.We can feed ourselves and house and feed him if need be.It was the circumstance that Paul was speaking to.

[Brother Price]

I am honored to attend Irvington Pentecostal Church, and yes, I do pay tithes and even give offerings.

[chseeads]

Since so many posters have an issue with pastors receiving compensation I thought the question a good one.

Tithes don't always go to the pastor though.

[Michael The Disciple]

You don't attend a local assembly?I just noted you said send.
I also noticed that Paul was saying he did not want to be a burden on the saints.Just a few highlights about that.We are probably alot wealthier than they were then.Truthfully the kings of old did not live as well as some of us.They may have had big stone fortresses but where was the air condition? For us to bless or support a missionary as Paul was it would not be a burden.We can feed ourselves and house and feed him if need be.It was the circumstance that Paul was speaking to.

No I do not attend a local Assembly. The 2 in my area teach false doctrine such as pre trib rapture, immortal soul, women preachers, beards are wrong on the platform, the usual. What am I to do sit under Pastors that teach error? Support the error by supporting them?

No Paul was not just speaking to the circumstance to the Elders about them working than he was about the rest of Acts 20. He was speaking the word of God.

[QueenEsther]

Tithes don't always go to the pastor though.

Right.


I attend regularly and tithe regularly!!

[Ferd]

No I do not attend a local Assembly. The 2 in my area teach false doctrine such as pre trib rapture, immortal soul, women preachers, beards are wrong on the platform, the usual. What am I to do sit under Pastors that teach error? Support the error by supporting them?

No Paul was not just speaking to the circumstance to the Elders about them working than he was about the rest of Acts 20. He was speaking the word of God.

what is this immortal soul you speak of?

[Michael The Disciple]

what is this immortal soul you speak of?

The doctrine that says souls of the wicked will live forever.

[Theresa]

I am honored to attend Irvington Pentecostal Church, and yes, I do pay tithes and even give offerings.

I was dedicated at Irvington :) By Bro Dees

[Malvaro]

ummmmmm, yes and yes....

[Pragmatist]

I attend and support the church monetarily.

[Ronzo]

yes/yes

[Glenda B]

I attend my home church faithfully, I am also faithful in paying my tithes and in giving offerings.
Save our Children
I support Mothers Memorial and usually support one if not two Bible students
I support Harvestime
Christmas For Christ
Give freely to those in need when our church takes up money to help individuals.
And give freely to those I know have a financial burden.
It pays to give, you can not outgive God.

[tamor]

Since so many posters have an issue with pastors receiving compensation I thought the question a good one.

Yes.

[Ferd]

The doctrine that says souls of the wicked will live forever.

and that is your excuese not to attend a church in your area? wow.

[Michael The Disciple]

and that is your excuese not to attend a church in your area? wow.

Ferd,

Why DISTORT what I said? Read Post 12 again. I said MORE than you accredit me for. And yes Post 12 details in part why I will not attend or support Churches that teach false doctrine.

[Ferd]

Ferd,

Why DISTORT what I said? Read Post 12 again. I said MORE than you accredit me for. And yes Post 12 details in part why I will not attend or support Churches that teach false doctrine.

Friend, you said you dont attend and gave this as your reason:

pre trib rapture, immortal soul, women preachers, beards are wrong on the platform, the usual

"immortal soul" is pretty indicative of EVERYTHING you listed thus my comment.

add everything you listed up together, and that still reamains a poor excuse to not attend church. it also is an excuse, not a reason. period.

[Rico]

Well, I don't have a home church now. With the exception of one church I attended, I have always been a faithful tither though. I can't go into very many details but there was one church where I had serious doubts about the leadership and intentionally didn't tithe faithfully. Let the slamming begin!

[NLYP]

Well, I don't have a home church now. With the exception of one church I attended, I have always been a faithful tither though. I can't go into very many details but there was one church where I had serious doubts about the leadership and intentionally didn't tithe faithfully. Let the slamming begin!

No slamming here...I sent mine to Tupelo....until the Pastor got off his mighty high horse!

Now watch the slamming!:killinme

[philjones]

No slamming here...I sent mine to Tupelo....until the Pastor got off his mighty high horse!

Now watch the slamming!:killinme

You should be careful there Roger Ranger... many here associate "your pastor" , based on your identification of this individual as your pastor, with one I know you are NOT talking about. Perhaps a small clarification might be in order. :)

[NLYP]

What royally burns my hide is these guys that preach tithes.....They take 100% of the tithes.....and do not disclose their salaries at the business meetings.

I wonder if they know that as a tax exempt status it has to be disclosed!
OH WAIT...that would be a loophole...and Lord knows we cant have loopholes in the rules!!!!

Wear you dresses, don't cut your hair, obey the manual, sign the AS, Dont go to ball games, dont go to movies, dont swim, dont dont dont....

Then suddenly....\\\$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

IRS...

HELP.....CPA FIND ME A LOOPHOLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its a bunch of hooey!

THAT IS TRUE HOLINESS!!!!!!

To do whats right all the time...not just when its conveinent!

[NLYP]

You should be careful there Roger Ranger... many here associate "your pastor" , based on your identification of this individual as your pastor, with one I know you are NOT talking about. Perhaps a small clarification might be in order. :)

Phil....It was a joke...I have never withheld my tithes...EVER!!!!!

SORRY....It was in fun.....just thought I would watch some fireworks!:sshhh:sshhh

[Rico]

No slamming here...I sent mine to Tupelo....until the Pastor got off his mighty high horse!

Now watch the slamming!:killinme


Actually, Brother, I have been thinking lately that maybe it would be a good idea to find a ministry to give tithes to until I find a home church. I have one in mind but won't mention it publicly because the ministry involves someone who posts here at AFF.

[Pressing-On]

Yes, to keep unity. I believe the tithe should go to the storehouse/church for distribution and not given to one man. It wasn't given to just one man for his own personal use in the OT.

[NLYP]

Yes, to keep unity. I believe the tithe should go to the storehouse/church for distribution and not given to one man. It wasn't given to just one man for his own personal use in the OT.

And THAT is the very reason, at one church we attended.
I gave 10%.

I divided that up between the Youth, Sunday School, Missions, and a percentage went to the tithe account which the Pastor took it all.

I gave the storehouse 10%...but I wanted it to go to the work as a whole...not the just the Pastor and us NEVER have a clue where it went.

It would amaze me....he would drive the best, wear the best, lived in a fine house...yet take up special offerings to pay the light bill and the mortgage.

PUKE!

[Rico]

It would amaze me....he would drive the best, wear the best, lived in a fine house...yet take up special offerings to pay the light bill and the mortgage.

PUKE!

I've seen this sort of thing happen too. The pastor takes all the tithes, drives expensive Suburbans and Avelanches, doubles the square footage of his house, buys up rental property like it's going out of style, all while the new church building takes five years to complete because there isn't enough money to get it done right. I've seen it happen with my own two eyes!

[Pressing-On]

And THAT is the very reason, at one church we attended.
I gave 10%.

I divided that up between the Youth, Sunday School, Missions, and a percentage went to the tithe account which the Pastor took it all.

I gave the storehouse 10%...but I wanted it to go to the work as a whole...not the just the Pastor and us NEVER have a clue where it went.

It would amaze me....he would drive the best, wear the best, lived in a fine house...yet take up special offerings to pay the light bill and the mortgage.

PUKE!

LOL! I don't mind paying tithes to the pastor. It would be nice to do it Biblically though.

I get tired of having to buy them gifts every time you turn around - anniversary, their birthday, the kids birthdays, Christmas, Mother's Day, Father's Day.......

It's just, for me, I wouldn't want the people to feel like they had to lift me up so high above them and I would wonder if some families were struggling to buy their own husband a gift for Father's Day and trying to pinch pennies to get my husband something too!

Just me. Bang away everybody! :killinme

[Ferd]

Speaking of with-holding tithes. my Baptist Deacon Grandfather got real unhappy with his pastor and for several months before the pastor left, he put his tithes in a bank account. when they got rid of the pastor, Papa gave all the $$ from the account to the church.

i am not endorsing that, just reporting what one baptist did.

[philjones]

Speaking of with-holding tithes. my Baptist Deacon Grandfather got real unhappy with his pastor and for several months before the pastor left, he put his tithes in a bank account. when they got rid of the pastor, Papa gave all the $$ from the account to the church.

i am not endorsing that, just reporting what one baptist did.

The Baptists perfected the starve 'em out tactic!

It is my opinion that good leadership will make good decisions regarding their income as it relates to the tithe coming into the assembly! Bad leadership will create problems no matter how well the tithe is regulated and controlled. Just elect good leaders and follow the Bible. It will all turn out OK.

[Steve Epley]

I've seen this sort of thing happen too. The pastor takes all the tithes, drives expensive Suburbans and Avelanches, doubles the square footage of his house, buys up rental property like it's going out of style, all while the new church building takes five years to complete because there isn't enough money to get it done right. I've seen it happen with my own two eyes!

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPS.

[BrotherEastman]

Is it a problem to tithe?

[marthaolivia]

I gladly give my tithes and offerings. I want my pastor to have my tithes. When I introduce my pastor to someone, I want him to look nice and prosperous...like our Father owns the world and everything in it!

[Theresa]

if you cant trust your pastor to correctly distribute your tithes, then you need a new pastor.

[Digging4Truth]

if you cant trust your pastor to correctly distribute your tithes, then you need a new pastor.

Do we use the bible to measure what is a correct distribution?

[Steve Epley]

if you cant trust your pastor to correctly distribute your tithes, then you need a new pastor.

Simple but true.

[Theresa]

Do we use the bible to measure what is a correct distribution?

the Bible says to pay on our increase. The Bible doesnt tell me to do anything other than bring it into the storehouse.

The rest is up to the pastor and whom ever else is in charge of the finances of the church.

[deseret]

We have an accountant that is based in another state. At the start of each new year we have a business meeting. Every 'member' of the church is asked to attend. We go through minutes and vote on things. Every 'member' has a vote. We go over the financial records of the year that just closed. Every dollar is accounted for.

[Dan]

And THAT is the very reason, at one church we attended.
I gave 10%.

I divided that up between the Youth, Sunday School, Missions, and a percentage went to the tithe account which the Pastor took it all.

I gave the storehouse 10%...but I wanted it to go to the work as a whole...not the just the Pastor and us NEVER have a clue where it went.

It would amaze me....he would drive the best, wear the best, lived in a fine house...yet take up special offerings to pay the light bill and the mortgage.

PUKE!

Go express that to your new pastor and see what he thinks. :)

[Dan]

What royally burns my hide is these guys that preach tithes.....They take 100% of the tithes.....and do not disclose their salaries at the business meetings.

I wonder if they know that as a tax exempt status it has to be disclosed!
OH WAIT...that would be a loophole...and Lord knows we cant have loopholes in the rules!!!!

Wear you dresses, don't cut your hair, obey the manual, sign the AS, Dont go to ball games, dont go to movies, dont swim, dont dont dont....

Then suddenly....\\\$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

IRS...

HELP.....CPA FIND ME A LOOPHOLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its a bunch of hooey!

THAT IS TRUE HOLINESS!!!!!!

To do whats right all the time...not just when its conveinent!

Does AM disclose his salary to POA every year? Or has he ever that you know of? Just curious.

[Digging4Truth]

the Bible says to pay on our increase. The Bible doesnt tell me to do anything other than bring it into the storehouse.

The rest is up to the pastor and whom ever else is in charge of the finances of the church.

But the Bible does tell how the tithe is to be distributed....

Should they follow those guidelines?

[Digging4Truth]

We have an accountant that is based in another state. At the start of each new year we have a business meeting. Every 'member' of the church is asked to attend. We go through minutes and vote on things. Every 'member' has a vote. We go over the financial records of the year that just closed. Every dollar is accounted for.

The church I grew up in did that every year.

I see no reason why this should not be done.

[Dan]

What royally burns my hide is these guys that preach tithes.....They take 100% of the tithes.....and do not disclose their salaries at the business meetings.

I wonder if they know that as a tax exempt status it has to be disclosed!
OH WAIT...that would be a loophole...and Lord knows we cant have loopholes in the rules!!!!

Wear you dresses, don't cut your hair, obey the manual, sign the AS, Dont go to ball games, dont go to movies, dont swim, dont dont dont....

Then suddenly....\\\$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

IRS...

HELP.....CPA FIND ME A LOOPHOLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its a bunch of hooey!

THAT IS TRUE HOLINESS!!!!!!

To do whats right all the time...not just when its conveinent!

Really, I agree with you. I do not take all the tithes nor have I ever done so. I believe the pastor must be a good steward of God's money. Any man that will take more than necessary and let the church struggle will answer to God.

It has to be about more than money!

[deseret]

The church I grew up in did that every year.

I see no reason why this should not be done.

It will shut the mouth of the lion.

[Ferd]

I know 3 of NLYPs pastors. (the current and 2 former)

I sure hope there is a fourth one that he is tossing in the fire!

[philjones]

I know 3 of NLYPs pastors. (the current and 2 former)

I sure hope there is a fourth one that he is tossing in the fire!

That was the reason for my statements to him early on in this thread! I know them too!:igotit

[tbpew]

The church I grew up in did that every year.

I see no reason why this should not be done.

There is a unique opportunity to demonstrate openness or demonstrate "legal compliance with the minimal intent".

We have these once per year meetings (all incorporated entities in _____ must have these).

The financial line item disclosures were fabulously vague.

Salary = $$
Bldg = $$$
Utilities = $
Missions = $$

I never even saw line items for the "corporations" vehicles, parsonage allowances, travel expenses, charitable giving to widows and orphans, etc. but there IS a business meeting where all the church finances were shown!

[Theresa]

But the Bible does tell how the tithe is to be distributed....

Should they follow those guidelines?

we have to trust our pastor to insure funds are distributed appropriately.

[deseret]

we have to trust our pastor to insure funds are distributed appropriately.
People will trust the pastor to teach them but just don't let him touch their money.

[Jehoram]

No you don't. Far better to lump him in with a handful of abusers. It gives you an excuse not to give?

[Pressing-On]

I know 3 of NLYPs pastors. (the current and 2 former)

I sure hope there is a fourth one that he is tossing in the fire!
I'm sure he just wants to be a blessing. :D

[Theresa]

There is a unique opportunity to demonstrate openness or demonstrate "legal compliance with the minimal intent".

We have these once per year meetings (all incorporated entities in _____ must have these).

The financial line item disclosures were fabulously vague.

Salary = $$
Bldg = $$$
Utilities = $
Missions = $$

I never even saw line items for the "corporations" vehicles, parsonage allowances, travel expenses, charitable giving to widows and orphans, etc. but there IS a business meeting where all the church finances were shown!


thats how our meeting is conducted...but the detail is readily available to anyone who wants to see it - but sometimes the pastor gives a lot of breakdown without having to - we're like "hurry up already" :)

[Theresa]

I know 3 of NLYPs pastors. (the current and 2 former)

I sure hope there is a fourth one that he is tossing in the fire!

NLYP lies....
:sshhh

[deseret]

No you don't. Far better to lump him in with a handful of abusers. It gives you an excuse not to give?

I agree with you. The problem isn't what the pastor is doing with the money. It is the greed of the one that doesn't want to give.

[Truthseeker]

he could give the 8mills if he likes but it's not mandatory. tithes aint' NT!

[Jehoram]

NLYP lies....
:sshhh

I can't believe she just said that!:drama

[Digging4Truth]

There is a unique opportunity to demonstrate openness or demonstrate "legal compliance with the minimal intent".

We have these once per year meetings (all incorporated entities in _____ must have these).

The financial line item disclosures were fabulously vague.

Salary = $$
Bldg = $$$
Utilities = $
Missions = $$

I never even saw line items for the "corporations" vehicles, parsonage allowances, travel expenses, charitable giving to widows and orphans, etc. but there IS a business meeting where all the church finances were shown!

Yes sir... a financial report reveals more than finances. One can tell from the tone of the report if there is more of an intent to reveal than disclose.

I have been present for many very open and informative financial reports that were very straight forward and set out with an intent and purpose of doing their very best to inform the people of where their offerings had gone to serve.

I have also seen reports where the vagueness left the impression that this report was more to appease than inform.

[Ferd]

ouch

[Sheltiedad]

My two main charities at the moment are the Texas Children's Hospital and the Houston Sheltie Society... (wasn't this thread about our charities? :D )

[Trouvere]

No I do not attend a local Assembly. The 2 in my area teach false doctrine such as pre trib rapture, immortal soul, women preachers, beards are wrong on the platform, the usual. What am I to do sit under Pastors that teach error? Support the error by supporting them?

No Paul was not just speaking to the circumstance to the Elders about them working than he was about the rest of Acts 20. He was speaking the word of God.

The churches in Revelation all had something God was correcting but He still considered them the church and people were being saved that attended them.Ever thought about that?

[Tech]

I attend and gladly tithe.

[pelathais]

I tithe but don't attend - at least I don't attend regularly enough to count it as "attendance." I set the EFT up on automatic several years ago and it keeps going even though I don't

BTW: It's due to health and a crazy work schedule that I don't attend as much.

That, and the color of the new carpet. I never really liked the new carpet. The pastor knows how I feel but I've never heard him preach about architectural and design issues. I guess he just doesn't follow the "old paths..."

Used to be you could get a good church split out of the color of the new carpet. Nowadays with the loud music and all, people just don't seem to care.

[Trouvere]

I tithe but don't attend - at least I don't attend regularly enough to count it as "attendance." I set the EFT up on automatic several years ago and it keeps going even though I don't

BTW: It's due to health and a crazy work schedule that I don't attend as much.

That, and the color of the new carpet. I never really liked the new carpet. The pastor knows how I feel but I've never heard him preach about architectural and design issues. I guess he just doesn't follow the "old paths..."

Used to be you could get a good church split out of the color of the new carpet. Nowadays with the loud music and all, people just don't seem to care.


You are too funny:killinme

[Hesetmefree238]

I attend the First Pentecostal Church of Lexington, TN and I have always
tithed.

[Arphaxad]

FPC, Hanford, CA, and I thank God I am able to tithe and give offerings, when I was unemployed the worst thing about it was not being able to.
formerly UPC, Oxnard, I tithed and gave offerings there too, and still give offerings when I am able to visit there.

I love God, my church, and my pastor(current and former), and I give because I want to. When I was out in the world I about gave everything to the devil, can I do any less for the Lord?



ARPH :doggyrun

[Steve Epley]

I have tithed since I was 11 years old. Tithing is as natural as eating and sleeping. God gives to me I give to him. NO I do NOT take it out of one pocket and put it in the other.:nah I tithe to the missions fund and have for years.

[Michael The Disciple]

Friend, you said you dont attend and gave this as your reason:

pre trib rapture, immortal soul, women preachers, beards are wrong on the platform, the usual

"immortal soul" is pretty indicative of EVERYTHING you listed thus my comment.

add everything you listed up together, and that still reamains a poor excuse to not attend church. it also is an excuse, not a reason. period.

False doctrine is no exuse to not attend a local Church? Well maybe there would be a nice Trinitarian group around. After all false doctrine does not matter.

[NLYP]

Go express that to your new pastor and see what he thinks. :)

The difference Bro. Dan is I highly trust our new Pastor...the guy we had at the time took all the money and he and his wife controlled it all...they signed the checks and they went four years without a business meeting. That was quite upsetting to not just me but the church as a whole.

[NLYP]

Does AM disclose his salary to POA every year? Or has he ever that you know of? Just curious.

Bro. AM has a very detailed business meeting and every dime is accounted for.
I know that "salaries" are disclosed at these meetings, I have been to them, when my wife and I were there.
I dont need specifics on AM, but he did and does believe in disclosure of what comes in ans what goes out.

Gary Maxwell, will be the first to tell you that POA is run like a corporation and has very open books.

[NLYP]

Really, I agree with you. I do not take all the tithes nor have I ever done so. I believe the pastor must be a good steward of God's money. Any man that will take more than necessary and let the church struggle will answer to God.

It has to be about more than money!

Thanks for seeing my point in this post Pastor....
My heart was right, I assure you.

[NLYP]

I know 3 of NLYPs pastors. (the current and 2 former)

I sure hope there is a fourth one that he is tossing in the fire!

i AM ONLY SPEAKING OF ONE IN PARTICULAR.....lol
And yes you do know him....But its just one! LOL

[NLYP]

NLYP lies....
:sshhh

EXCUSE ME!!!!!

[The Mrs]

EXCUSE ME!!!!!

She was probably teasing you about this post that you made:

Phil....It was a joke...I have never withheld my tithes...EVER!!!!!

SORRY....It was in fun.....just thought I would watch some fireworks!:sshhh:sshhh

:heeheehee

[Chan]

I dont think many people at all have a problem with a Pastor being paid. I have a problem with a Pastor who wont Pastor UNLESS he is paid. The problem is when Pastors feel they must be paid to do the ministry.

Paul certainly did not feel this way. Neither did he teach the Elders of the New Testament Churches he established.

33: I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel.
34: Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me.
35: I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive. Acts 20:33-35

Paul taught the Elders here WORK WITH YOUR OWN HANDS dont think you MUST receive tithes.

I rejoice to send offerings to Preachers who preach truth. From our side we should want to communicate to them financially. From their side they should be willing to work day and night as Paul did so as not to be a burden on the Saints.I don't object to pastors being paid; after all, it was the Apostle Paul who quoted the Old Testament passage about not muzzling the ox and applied to being entitled to compensation for the work he was doing.

I have yet to see where the New Testament mandates tithing in the Church, though.

[mizpeh]

I don't object to pastors being paid; after all, it was the Apostle Paul who quoted the Old Testament passage about not muzzling the ox and applied to being entitled to compensation for the work he was doing.

I have yet to see where the New Testament mandates tithing in the Church, though.I haven't found where the NT mandates tithing either. What do you think about this verse from Proverbs?

Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:

Abraham and Jacob tithed without a law to tell them to. Solomon speaks of giving the firstfruits to God. Do you understand this to be a general principle or was Solomon bringing the law into play in the book of wisdom? I can't find the Law of Moses in Proverbs. Can we, as the NT church, glean anything or apply anything from the OT to our walk with God in relation to our giving?

[Coonskinner]

I haven't found where the NT mandates tithing either. What do you think about this verse from Proverbs?

Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:

Abraham and Jacob tithed without a law to tell them to. Solomon speaks of giving the firstfruits to God. Do you understand this to be a general principle or was Solomon bringing the law into play in the book of wisdom? I can't find the Law of Moses in Proverbs. Can we, as the NT church, glean anything or apply anything from the OT to our walk with God in relation to our giving?


The principle of firstfruits is found early in the book of Genesis.

Abel was the first to practice it, and he drew the antagonism of the fellow who didn't.

Some things never change.:)

[Chan]

I haven't found where the NT mandates tithing either. What do you think about this verse from Proverbs?

Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increaseIt says nothing about tithing.

Abraham and Jacob tithed without a law to tell them to. Solomon speaks of giving the firstfruits to God. Do you understand this to be a general principle or was Solomon bringing the law into play in the book of wisdom? I can't find the Law of Moses in Proverbs. Can we, as the NT church, glean anything or apply anything from the OT to our walk with God in relation to our giving?But King Solomon was under the Law of Moses and, thus, what he wrote would have been consistent with that law. There was nothing indicating that Abraham and Jacob were required to give a tenth, they chose to do it. That's the point: giving in the New Testament is voluntary, not mandatory.

[Truthseeker]

I haven't found where the NT mandates tithing either. What do you think about this verse from Proverbs?

Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:

Abraham and Jacob tithed without a law to tell them to. Solomon speaks of giving the firstfruits to God. Do you understand this to be a general principle or was Solomon bringing the law into play in the book of wisdom? I can't find the Law of Moses in Proverbs. Can we, as the NT church, glean anything or apply anything from the OT to our walk with God in relation to our giving?


one big mistake folks make is saying firstfruits is tithes and it is not. they are different.

[Chan]

The principle of firstfruits is found early in the book of Genesis.

Abel was the first to practice it, and he drew the antagonism of the fellow who didn't.

Some things never change.:)But "tithe" doesn't mean "firstfruits"!

The issue between Cain and Abel was that Cain did not give the first and the best whereas Abel did. It was about the attitude of the heart and Cain was angry at God (and jealous of Abel) because God called him on the carpet about his attitude.

[Coonskinner]

When Chan starts using exclamation points, you know the fur is going to fly.:)

[Truthseeker]

The principle of firstfruits is found early in the book of Genesis.

Abel was the first to practice it, and he drew the antagonism of the fellow who didn't.

Some things never change.:)



But it has nothing to do with tithes. Abel gave the firstling, which just means first one born. The animal could have 5 babies in her lifetime and that would be 20%.

[Coonskinner]

But it has nothing to do with tithes. Abel gave the firstling, which just means first one born. The animal could have 5 babies in her lifetime and that would be 20%.

Wow.

That is twice what a tithe would have been.:)

[Truthseeker]

Wow.

That is twice what a tithe would have been.:)

yep, no one xcan determine how much a firstling would be. Same with fristfruits. It error to compare it to tithes as some do today. I know they do it out of ignorance. We all have at times

[Chan]

But it has nothing to do with tithes. Abel gave the firstling, which just means first one born. The animal could have 5 babies in her lifetime and that would be 20%.Yes, it was about the attitude of the heart.

[mizpeh]

It says nothing about tithing.

But King Solomon was under the Law of Moses and, thus, what he wrote would have been consistent with that law. There was nothing indicating that Abraham and Jacob were required to give a tenth, they chose to do it. That's the point: giving in the New Testament is voluntary, not mandatory.
I know the verse from Proverbs doesn't have the word 'tithe' in it. I'm asking about a principle, an underlying concept apart from the law of Moses.

How did Abraham come up with 10%? Can we not follow his example, after all we are the children of Abraham, and conclude that the firstfruits of all our increase should be at least 10%? We can follow Abraham's faith but not his giving?

I agree Solomon was under the law, but I think Proverbs is wisdom apart from the wisdom of the law of Moses. Can you find where any of the proverbs could be taken from the law?

[mizpeh]

The principle of firstfruits is found early in the book of Genesis.

Abel was the first to practice it, and he drew the antagonism of the fellow who didn't.

Some things never change.:)

I think Cain practiced the principle of firstfruits as well. His giving wasn't honored by God because sin was in Cain's life.

[Coonskinner]

I think Cain practiced the principle of firstfruits as well. His giving wasn't honored by God because sin was in Cain's life.

Post the verse where it specifies that Cain offered firstfruits.

It sepcifically says Abel did. I guess I missed the place where it says Cain did as well.

[Brother Strange]

I thithe and place the tithe right into the hand of God's anointed...not into the plate where I put my offering, but right into the hand of where it belongs.

The tithe was not mine when I received it. It was not mine when I gave it back to the Lord. What God or the Priest does with it after my obligation is discharge, is none of my business.

M.E. Burr's book, "Tithing and New Testament Government," got him kicked out of the UPC, but it is probably the most spiritual thing that I've ever read on either subject.

[deseret]

You refer to the pastor as the "Priest".

[Brother Strange]

It's a biblical word.

[deseret]

It's a biblical word.

Are not we all in the royal priesthood?

[Brother Strange]

Are not we all in the royal priesthood?

Indeed.

[Digging4Truth]

I thithe and place the tithe right into the hand of God's anointed...not into the plate where I put my offering, but right into the hand of where it belongs.

The tithe was not mine when I received it. It was not mine when I gave it back to the Lord. What God or the Priest does with it after my obligation is discharge, is none of my business.

M.E. Burr's book, "Tithing and New Testament Government," got him kicked out of the UPC, but it is probably the most spiritual thing that I've ever read on either subject.

Where do you get the concept that the tithe is to be placed into the pastors (I am assuming you are referring to the pastor) hand?

Since this would surely have to come from the OT this makes me want to ask the question if you view the pastor as the priest when comparing NT to OT because the priest was given his portion out of the storehouse.

Well.. most of the time he was. There was a time that the priests directly handled the distribution and Nehemiah had to come in and put an end to all of that.

As a matter of fact I have posted an article before comparing Malachi 3 to Nehemiahs writings of what was going on in the Temple at the time and I firmly believe that the admonition in Malachi 3 was concerning the way the priests were handling the tithe (not to mention the fact that they were handling it at all other than their portion which they were supposed to be given.)

But... anyway.. I ramble...

My question...again... is where do you get the concept that the tithe is to be placed into the pastors (I am assuming you are referring to the pastor) hand?

[Brother Strange]

Well, Diggin...

You know what happens when I make a theological statement. The whole forum begins to melt down with smoke and heat. I only answered a question about what I do with tithe.

I would not mind answering the question for you, but it would take so much work. If you can get M.E. Burr's book, you would come to see that it is probably the most divinely written book on the subject that has ever been published. The UPC did not like it. This Prophet (though he would never call himself that) was a very educated and accomplished writer that spared neither rod nor sword, administering both without fear or favor. That book got him kicked out of the UPC.

See if you can find a copy of it. It would be a great blessing to you.

[Chan]

I know the verse from Proverbs doesn't have the word 'tithe' in it. I'm asking about a principle, an underlying concept apart from the law of Moses.But you're confusing the principle of firstfruits with the principle of tithing.

How did Abraham come up with 10%? Can we not follow his example, after all we are the children of Abraham, and conclude that the firstfruits of all our increase should be at least 10%? We can follow Abraham's faith but not his giving?We don't know why Abraham decided to give 10 percent. Why not 20 percent? Why not five percent? We don't know. Just because we are spiritual children of Abraham doesn't mean we should follow his literal example. If we said that we should follow his example then we would all have to marry our half-sisters and lie about being married to her.

I agree Solomon was under the law, but I think Proverbs is wisdom apart from the wisdom of the law of Moses. Can you find where any of the proverbs could be taken from the law?The Law of Moses is not "wisdom," it's law. Wisdom is the application of law.

[Blubayou]

You do not have a category that fit us. We attend church- give a substantial amount each month but do not call it tithes because we do not feel that is the NT way to support the church. The amount we give is comparable to the amount we would tithe if we did tithe.

[mizpeh]

Post the verse where it specifies that Cain offered firstfruits.

It sepcifically says Abel did. I guess I missed the place where it says Cain did as well.

They both brought of the fruit of their work. God didn't rebuke Cain for not bringing the first fruits. God rebuked Cain for sin. His heart was not right with God.

Gen 4:2 And she again bore his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
Gen 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
Gen 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
Gen 4:5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
Gen 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

[Digging4Truth]

Well, Diggin...

You know what happens when I make a theological statement. The whole forum begins to melt down with smoke and heat. I only answered a question about what I do with tithe.

I would not mind answering the question for you, but it would take so much work. If you can get M.E. Burr's book, you would come to see that it is probably the most divinely written book on the subject that has ever been published. The UPC did not like it. This Prophet (though he would never call himself that) was a very educated and accomplished writer that spared neither rod nor sword, administering both without fear or favor. That book got him kicked out of the UPC.

See if you can find a copy of it. It would be a great blessing to you.

LOL... Indeed it does brother.

Okay... I appreciate your honest reply.

Take care.

[Coonskinner]

They both brought of the fruit of their work. God didn't rebuke Cain for not bringing the first fruits. God rebuked Cain for sin. His heart was not right with God.

Gen 4:2 And she again bore his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
Gen 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
Gen 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
Gen 4:5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
Gen 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Great comments, but you still didn't show me where Cain, like Abel, brought firstfruits.

[Chan]

Great comments, but you still didn't show me where Cain, like Abel, brought firstfruits.I think that was the whole problem: Cain didn't bring the first and the best. The attitude of his heart was all wrong.

[Michlow]

I doubt there is any question as to which I voted ;)

[Ronzo]

I doubt there is any question as to which I voted ;)


Was it this one?
I send my tithe to my favorite television preacher.



lol :slaphappy

[tamor]

Was it this one?
I send my tithe to my favorite television preacher.



lol :slaphappy


:toofunny :toofunny

[Coonskinner]

I think that was the whole problem: Cain didn't bring the first and the best. The attitude of his heart was all wrong.

I agree.

It is God who judges whether we have put Him first and honored Him in our giving, not the anonymous panel of experts on an internet forum.:)

[Ronzo]

I agree.

It is God who judges whether we have put Him first and honored Him in our giving, not the anonymous panel of experts on an internet forum.:)
Blasphemer!!!! :IAM





:slaphappy:winkgrin

[mizpeh]

Great comments, but you still didn't show me where Cain, like Abel, brought firstfruits.

That's because I can't. Fruits doesn't equal first fruits.

:ty2 Thank you for correcting me.

[mizpeh]

But you're confusing the principle of firstfruits with the principle of tithing. I'm trying to see if there is a link between the two.

We don't know why Abraham decided to give 10 percent. Why not 20 percent? Why not five percent? We don't know. Just because we are spiritual children of Abraham doesn't mean we should follow his literal example. If we said that we should follow his example then we would all have to marry our half-sisters and lie about being married to her.His son, Jacob, followed his literal example in tithing.

Why can't we follow his spiritual example of tithing as well?

There is something faulty in your logic when you use this literal natural example of marrying a half sister but I don't know what it is. It just doesn't make sense.

The Law of Moses is not "wisdom," it's law. Wisdom is the application of law.


De 4:5-8 Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it. Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for? And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?

Surrounding nations will say the people the nation of Israel is wise and understanding because of their Law.

[SISTER Murphy]

I have tithed since I was 11 years old. Tithing is as natural as eating and sleeping. God gives to me I give to him. NO I do NOT take it out of one pocket and put it in the other.:nah I tithe to the missions fund and have for years.

Elder, I was not even six years old when my mom taught me that the tithe is 1/10 of whatever increase I get. I remember that she and Dad had decided to give me and my younger sister both a whole dollar (for what, I don't remember). Then she turned those dollar bills into dimes, put an empty baby food jar on the bookshelf, had us count those ten dimes, told us that one of those belonged to Jesus, not us, and had us put the dime into the jar. We got to give our tithe from that jar some time later. I thank God for parents who taught me when I was very young, that the tithe is the Lord's, and that it is a blessing and a privilege to be able to give offerings.

[SISTER Murphy]

I haven't found where the NT mandates tithing either. What do you think about this verse from Proverbs?

Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:

Abraham and Jacob tithed without a law to tell them to. Solomon speaks of giving the firstfruits to God. Do you understand this to be a general principle or was Solomon bringing the law into play in the book of wisdom? I can't find the Law of Moses in Proverbs. Can we, as the NT church, glean anything or apply anything from the OT to our walk with God in relation to our giving?

The new testament references the fact that Abraham, pre Mosaic covenant, paid tithes of all to Melchisedec, king of Salem.

Hebrews 7:1-9
For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

Also, Jesus said this:

Matthew 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

[philjones]

Well, I reckon 100% of what I receive belongs to Jesus. I am just thankful he lets me keep 90%! :)

[Pressing-On]

The new testament references the fact that Abraham, pre Mosaic covenant, paid tithes of all to Melchisedec, king of Salem.

Hebrews 7:1-9
For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

Also, Jesus said this:

Matthew 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
SM,
It actually says he gave a tenth of the spoils. It wasn't even his stuff, but the best of the booty when he got back from the slaughter of the kings. Spoils in the Greek is - top of the heap, best of the booty.


Hebrews 7:4 "Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils."

[Brother Strange]

Well, I reckon 100% of what I receive belongs to Jesus. I am just thankful he lets me keep 90%! :)

Amen, bro. Phil,

If God would have required the 90%, he would have blessed my 10% that would be as much as anyone else's 100% kept for themselves not being under the blessings of the obedient. I would far rather have the 10% for myself that is blessed than the 90% that is not blessed.

[Steve Epley]

Well, I reckon 100% of what I receive belongs to Jesus. I am just thankful he lets me keep 90%! :)

Sounds like a good plan to me??? And it has been.

[Oneness Man]

I don't have no problem with a pastor being paid, but what I do have a problem with is a pastor who takes all the money and uses it for his own gain and not for the ministry.

[Brother Price]

Pastors should be paid, but the believers should not be lied to in order for this to happen.