Whats up with all this "Elder" stuff?

[NLYP]

Just wondering...where do we get this "elder" stuff from????

Elder this and elder that and elder the other............
I think you cons should stick to the book......I don't see that title used anywhere.

[Steve Epley]

Just wondering...where do we get this "elder" stuff from????

Elder this and elder that and elder the other............
I think you cons should stick to the book......I don't see that title used anywhere.

Have you read the Book that is the question.:nah

[NLYP]

Have you read the Book that is the question.:nah

yup...loved 1st and 2nd Macabees.



LOLOL j/k

[Polaris]

????WHAT???? Well, the book I read records John referring to himself as "the Elder", records Paul speaking to "the elders" at Ephesus---etc. Strangely enough, at no point in time does "the Book" ever refer to holiness-minded, Bible-believing Christians as "cons".

[deseret]

????WHAT???? Well, the book I read records John referring to himself as "the Elder", records Paul speaking to "the elders" at Ephesus---etc. Strangely enough, at no point in time does "the Book" ever refer to holiness-minded, Bible-believing Christians as "cons".

I thought I was the only con on this forum. :nah

[Rico]

Just wondering...where do we get this "elder" stuff from????

Elder this and elder that and elder the other............
I think you cons should stick to the book......I don't see that title used anywhere.


The term "elder" is used 68 times in the New Testament. How many times is "youth pastor" used? ;)

[OP_Carl]

The term "elder" is used 68 times in the New Testament. How many times is "youth pastor" used? ;)

Of them, my wife's favorite is Elder Beerman.

[Rico]

Of them, my wife's favorite is Elder Beerman.


Hehehehehehe! I see you are an early morning comedian! :slaphappy

[RevDWW]

Elders............hmmmmm?
Acts 14:21 - Acts 14:23 (KJV)

21And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch,
22Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
23And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.


Titus 1:5 - Titus 1:16 (KJV)


5For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:
6If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
7For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
8But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
9Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
10For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
11Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre’s sake.
12One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
13This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
14Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
15Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Looks like Elder and Bishop are the same thing ....... and what's whit that "in every city"?:winkgrin

[Sheltiedad]

I had never heard anyone called Elder or Bishop until I started posting on FCF... I think it is more of an ultra-con thing that is carrying over into the mainstream.

[Digging4Truth]

Jam 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

[OP_Carl]

I had never heard anyone called Elder or Bishop until I started posting on FCF... I think it is more of an ultra-con thing that is carrying over into the mainstream.

Black churches across the spectrum have long used these titles, and more.

[Amos]

"Elder" is a Biblical term.

Why the issue with it, NLYP?

[Ronzo]

"Elder" is a Biblical term.

Why the issue with it, NLYP?
Methinks our friend probably doesn't feel there's enough controversy going on here and decided to blow up some dust...

[tamor]

Methinks our friend probably doesn't feel there's enough controversy going on here and decided to blow up some dust...

No! Say it ain't so!! :roseglasses

[OP_Carl]

Methinks our friend probably doesn't feel there's enough controversy going on here and decided to blow up some dust...

Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!

We have a winner!

[jwharv]

Black churches across the spectrum have long used these titles, and more.


I thought we didn't believe in using the titles......... :slaphappy:slaphappy:slaphappy


Remember we are a "People of the NAME".............

[Sheltiedad]

I don't care either way, I had just never heard it but it seems to be the latest "craze". I didn't grow up around many black churches so I wasn't aware that they used these titles commonly. Nowadays, it seems like people almost trip over each other because they are so excited to call each other "elder"... at least on these forums. :)

[Brother Strange]

We must not have any disimulation or controversy on this forum. We must all be in one mind and one accord. Maybe then, the Holy Ghost will fall on this forum and y'all can sell all you have and then have all things in common. Singing...

:choir :choir :choir

"...how sweet it is to be loved by you..."

[rgcraig]

We could switch to "father"........bwwwaaahhhh!

I think NLYP doesn't like it because he's too young to be called elder.

[Jehoram]

What would you folks prefer?


Hmmm...........let's see..........how bout calling them............................dirty, rotten, dictatorial, Pharisaical scumbugs who are extremely old?







That would engender a lot of love.

[Sheltiedad]

I think titles are silly in the first place, but why not just keep using "Brother" or "Pastor" like everyone has used for years and years rather than jump on whatever the latest trend of cool titles are.

To be consistent, we should refer to Jesus and the Apostles as, Elder Jesus or Elder Paul, etc. :D Oh, I forgot, it is okay to refer to them by their first names...

[rgcraig]

I call my pastor Deacon Blues - - - LOL!!!!!!

[Sheltiedad]

That is kinda catchy...

[Rico]

I think titles are silly in the first place, but why not just keep using "Brother" or "Pastor" like everyone has used for years and years rather than jump on whatever the latest trend of cool titles are.

To be consistent, we should refer to Jesus and the Apostles as, Elder Jesus or Elder Paul, etc. :D Oh, I forgot, it is okay to refer to them by their first names...

"Elder" is typically used when referring to someone who has been in the ministry for a long time.

[Ronzo]

What would you folks prefer?


Hmmm...........let's see..........how bout calling them............................dirty, rotten, dictatorial, Pharisaical scumbugs who are extremely old?


That would engender a lot of love.
Get out of my head!



(being sracastic - don't anyone freak out)

[rgcraig]

"Elder" is typically used when referring to someone who has been in the ministry for a long time.

By your standards (and mine) - - - although, I hear it used on younger ministers too.

I tend to think the elders are just that....older saints in the church that are the rock, the stable ones, the prayer warriors. To me, that is in line with the scriptures. It's not just a title for the minister.

[Sheltiedad]

By your standards (and mine) - - - although, I hear it used on younger ministers too.

I tend to think the elders are just that....older saints in the church that are the rock, the stable ones, the prayer warriors. To me, that is in line with the scriptures.

Yeah, that is more how I remember it... they considered my grandfather an elder although he had never been a preacher. I guess it's nice to get SOMETHING when you have been attending the same church for 50 years. lol.

[Rico]

By your standards (and mine) - - - although, I hear it used on younger ministers too.

I tend to think the elders are just that....older saints in the church that are the rock, the stable ones, the prayer warriors. To me, that is in line with the scriptures. It's not just a title for the minister.

Yeah, I'd say your definition would also apply.

[Sheltiedad]

I have to admit I snicker when people in their 30's are called Elder... because it makes me think of someone 80 years old... but then I snicker about a lot of things... :)

[Ronzo]

I have to admit I snicker when people in their 30's are called Elder... because it makes me think of someone 80 years old... but then I snicker about a lot of things... :)

At our new work, the pastor put my 'title' as Elder on the web site at first... "Sorry... I like 'administrator' much better, bro"

lol


Thus the ribbing from our favorite UK-ite... "Elder Ronzo"

[DividedThigh]

elder being used to refer to older saints in the church is quite common in the south where i was raised and is here now in the north, but the churches in this area where i am are mostly less than 40 years old, so elders are rare, i have been considered an elder, sometimes, in some churches, but i think it had more to do with having some gray hair now, and being around a long time, lol,dt:sshhh

[DividedThigh]

I always thought it a little strange that the mormons call each other elder even the kids they send out on there missions wear badges elder whatever, kind of funny to me, dt:winkgrin

[Sheltiedad]

One, "unnamed young preacher" at one of the churches we used to go to was in his early 20's and would always tell these stories over the pulpit about things that happened when he was a "young lad". Now THAT made me snicker. :)

[rgcraig]

One, "unnamed young preacher" at one of the churches we used to go to was in his early 20's and would always tell these stories over the pulpit about things that happened when he was a "young lad". Now THAT made me snicker. :)

LOL - he should have just said "last year" - - lol!

[DividedThigh]

Sherri, tell you husband who is my elder, hi for me, dt:choir

[NLYP]

The term "elder" is used 68 times in the New Testament. How many times is "youth pastor" used? ;)

I guess you are missing my point....
I am honestly wondering where the title of elder comes from and why it is used to address anybody in the ministry.

[NLYP]

I had never heard anyone called Elder or Bishop until I started posting on FCF... I think it is more of an ultra-con thing that is carrying over into the mainstream.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!
My point!
I can understand if its used as an honorary title for an elderly minister or even a Pastor....but not just when addressing ministry.

[Sister Alvear]

Our people call Brother Alvear Bishop...I guess since he is our overseer. I have never heard him tell anyone to call him that. I call him "Honey"...

I think some people want names others could care less for names...my husband could care less what people call him it is really all about what a person does and is. A´person that is respected whatever name or title that is used to that person the listener can hear respect or disrespect...

[Sister Alvear]

I call my pastor Brother Taylor and called him Brother Bryan for many years because that is what we grew up calling him...other than my husband he is the man I most respect on this earth. He has been my pastor for 50 years! He was very young when he stated to pastor! I have known him through all the ups and downs of life...He has my highest respect.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

I call my pastor Brother Taylor and called him Brother Bryan for many years because that is what we grew up calling him...other than my husband he is the man I most respect on this earth. He has been my pastor for 50 years! He was very young when he stated to pastor! I have known him through all the ups and downs of life...He has my highest respect.

respect is why I would use the term Elder.

Some here have lost respect it seems.

Using it on my Pastor gets him going for he is younger than myesel. He knows I am not serious and I seldom do this.

[tamor]

I call my pastor Deacon Blues - - - LOL!!!!!!

LOL. Do the folks at your church know why you call him that?

[Chan]

I think titles are silly in the first place, but why not just keep using "Brother" or "Pastor" like everyone has used for years and years rather than jump on whatever the latest trend of cool titles are."Brother" and "Pastor" are also titles. So why should we stick to those "silly" titles?

To be consistent, we should refer to Jesus and the Apostles as, Elder Jesus or Elder Paul, etc. :D Oh, I forgot, it is okay to refer to them by their first names...No, because elder is a term applied to specific leadership in the Church under Christ. Paul was an apostle, not an elder.

[Chan]

I guess you are missing my point....
I am honestly wondering where the title of elder comes from and why it is used to address anybody in the ministry.It comes from the New Testament passages that someone posted earlier.

[Digging4Truth]

As to show preference to our brothers concerns I think we should refer to NYLP as "Youngster" from now on.


:killinme:slaphappy:killinme

[Digging4Truth]

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa132/missionary_2007/Figura171.jpg

Are These Brazilian Elders?

:)

[Sister Alvear]

thought I would shock you all...ha..http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa132/missionary_2007/Figura171.jpg

[Steve Epley]

The term "elder" is used 68 times in the New Testament. How many times is "youth pastor" used? ;)

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPS!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

Rico you will NEVER outrun your roots it is just in you buddy!!!!!!!!!!!!:killinme

[Steve Epley]

I had never heard anyone called Elder or Bishop until I started posting on FCF... I think it is more of an ultra-con thing that is carrying over into the mainstream.

I can understand that in the religious world they call preachers Reverend. However the Lord's name is Reverend and since I am not him I choose to be called a Biblical term.:winkgrin Us cons are like that.

[Steve Epley]

I don't care either way, I had just never heard it but it seems to be the latest "craze". I didn't grow up around many black churches so I wasn't aware that they used these titles commonly. Nowadays, it seems like people almost trip over each other because they are so excited to call each other "elder"... at least on these forums. :)

The first American Pentecostal organization was the PAW all the preachers were called Bishop and Elder and that predates all the other American Oneness groups so it is NOT a new fad. Even Seymour a Azusa was called Elder.

[Turbid Bliss]

Greetings from Elder Turbid!

[Digging4Truth]

Greetings from Elder Turbid!

Greetings Elder.... :)

[Straightline]

Just wondering...where do we get this "elder" stuff from????

Elder this and elder that and elder the other............
I think you cons should stick to the book......I don't see that title used anywhere.


NLYP: Elder is a term used to contrast against the term, Novice.
I can understand why you don't get it....

elderstraightline@yahoo.com

Laying it out in a
Straightline

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by NLYP
I guess you are missing my point....
I am honestly wondering where the title of elder comes from and why it is used to address anybody in the ministry.

Elders are spoken of more in the New Testament than Pastors though they are one and the same person. Elders is the preferred Title. Also the term PASTOR is not used to address ANYONE in the New Testament.

[Sister Alvear]

I can agree with that.

[Sheltiedad]

If we must call people living today by the title Elder to be respectful... should we not always preface the Apostles with the title, "Apostle"...

Why is it okay to say, "Paul said...." but not use the familiar when referring to a preacher that is alive today?

[DividedThigh]

imho i would say that elder is earned and applied to men and women who have great faith and walk to go withit, not pronounced upon themselves as many have , someone else must see it first, get it, dt:killinme

[Steve Epley]

Folks who think we apply Elder to ourselves as some great exalted title just don't understand our culture. Preachers are just called Elders like the religious world calls preachers Reverend. No big deal. Most of the Saints call me Bro. Epley among other things.:winkgrin

[rgcraig]

Folks who think we apply Elder to ourselves as some great exalted title just don't understand our culture. Preachers are just called Elders like the religious world calls preachers Reverend. No big deal. Most of the Saints call me Bro. Epley among other things.:winkgrin

Just as long as they call you to dinner you're alright, huh? :winkgrin

[Steve Epley]

Just as long as they call you to dinner you're alright, huh? :winkgrin

My wife does NOT call me Elder at dinner.:winkgrin

[Theresa]

The term "elder" is used 68 times in the New Testament. How many times is "youth pastor" used? ;)

BUMP!!!!!!!!

y'all missed this jewel of a comment ROFL:slaphappy

[DividedThigh]

Folks who think we apply Elder to ourselves as some great exalted title just don't understand our culture. Preachers are just called Elders like the religious world calls preachers Reverend. No big deal. Most of the Saints call me Bro. Epley among other things.:winkgrin

i understand your culture quite well, i dont know you, but i do know a lot of men who call themselves elder who arent, some people just like the sound of any title in front of there name, i just want to be called to eat myself, not into titles, lol,dt:killinme

[DividedThigh]

BUMP!!!!!!!!

y'all missed this jewel of a comment ROFL:slaphappy

how about never, lol,dt:slaphappy

[SDG]

The term "elder" is used 68 times in the New Testament. How many times is "youth pastor" used? ;)

Ouch ...!!!!

[IAintMovin]

Just wondering...where do we get this "elder" stuff from????

Elder this and elder that and elder the other............
I think you cons should stick to the book......I don't see that title used anywhere.

It is a respect issue..... I am sure you wouldnt understand............plus...........I have heard you use it many times..........why dont you post a tread of substance instead of constant attempt at tearing down the "cons" as you always seem to "attempt" to do...........get a life.........

[Theresa]

I think the people I've ever know called "elder" were actually older saints, male, in the church who had been in the church for many years and are very wise and in tune with the things of God...not in any ministry actually..just an "elder" in the church.

A term of respect and honor....

what's wrong with it? The Bible says call for your elders if there are any sick among you - seems like the elders would be the ones who know how to get down to business and touch God b/c they've been around the block a time or two.

I think it means a more "mature" person in God, not just something we call the "older" men...

*shrug*

I like it better than Bishop or Father, or Mother for women...

[Theresa]

It is a respect issue..... I am sure you wouldnt understand............plus...........I have heard you use it many times..........why dont you post a tread of substance instead of constant attempt at tearing down the "cons" as you always seem to "attempt" to do...........get a life.........

so, he jealous that he'll never be an "elder" ROFL

[DividedThigh]

so, he jealous that he'll never be an "elder" ROFL

go girl,dt :killinme

[IAintMovin]

The term "elder" is used 68 times in the New Testament. How many times is "youth pastor" used? ;)

I think the term Youth Pastor came from..........hummmm......lets see.......oh yes...."when I was a child I spake as a child"...........elder came from the rest of the verse.............

[DividedThigh]

I think the term Youth Pastor came from..........hummmm......lets see.......oh yes...."when I was a child I spake as a child"...........elder came from the rest of the verse.............

funny stuff, dt:winkgrin

[Steve Epley]

I think the term Youth Pastor came from..........hummmm......lets see.......oh yes...."when I was a child I spake as a child"...........elder came from the rest of the verse.............

Child Abuse is against the law!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!:drama

[Michael The Disciple]

Folks who think we apply Elder to ourselves as some great exalted title just don't understand our culture. Preachers are just called Elders like the religious world calls preachers Reverend. No big deal. Most of the Saints call me Bro. Epley among other things.:winkgrin

There ya go!:winkgrin

[OP_Carl]

I guess you are missing my point....
I am honestly wondering where the title of elder comes from and why it is used to address anybody in the ministry.

It comes, like most things worth knowing in English, from the movie Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

"Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries!"

"If need be, I'd be happy to taunt you once again!"

My observation is that even Apostolic preachers will have a knee-jerk reaction at inter-denominational meetings and call the Catholic priest, 'father so-and-so.' According to the rules, he better ain't be ANYBODY's father!!!!! Nevertheless, everybody calls the priest father, even if they aren't Catholic.

Why not us?

[rgcraig]

Oh, I love elderberry jello!

I don't have any now and don't know where any elderberries are........

[Sheltiedad]

I ain't ever even HEARD of elderberries... maybe that is why I never heard anyone called Elder while growing up in the UPC?

[OP_Carl]

In the comic play, 'Arsenic and Old Lace,' two sweet little old ladies perform what they perceive as "mercy killings" on the lonely-hearted in their community using poisoned elderberry wine as the means.

It's been years since I saw it, but I remember it was funny, and I remember one line in particular.

A gentleman is waiting in the parlor, and one of the ladies asks him if he'd like a glass of elderberry wine while he is waiting. With a look of astonishment, he asks whether they really have some. (I guess it's rare) They reply in the affirmative, and one of them goes to fetch a glass of the poisoned wine.

He says to the other, "I thought I'd had my last glass of elderberry wine!"

At that moment the other lady comes in and says, "Oh, no! Here it is!"

[Barb]

Black churches across the spectrum have long used these titles, and more.

This is true...I say it/write it now almost without thinking, and to me it is a term of respect.

I refer to a friend's husband as "Elder" so much that she has taken to calling him "Elder" when speaking of him to me...it's cute...:winkgrin

[Truthseeker]

Just wondering...where do we get this "elder" stuff from????

Elder this and elder that and elder the other............
I think you cons should stick to the book......I don't see that title used anywhere.

The word pastor was never used either. And reverend being used is about basphemy since in the bible it only used when refering to God.

ewlder is more approriate, IMO. For a minister is an elder buthis ministry may be pastor, evangelist, teaching...etc

[Truthseeker]

Elders............hmmmmm?



Looks like Elder and Bishop are the same thing ....... and what's whit that "in every city"?:winkgrin


and in EVERY church. This why it ays call for the elderS of the church not elder or pastor

[Truthseeker]

By your standards (and mine) - - - although, I hear it used on younger ministers too.

I tend to think the elders are just that....older saints in the church that are the rock, the stable ones, the prayer warriors. To me, that is in line with the scriptures. It's not just a title for the minister.

They ORDAINed elder in church. Elders were told by Paul God made them overseers to feed the flock of God. Elder ineed refering to ministers.

[tamor]

In the comic play, 'Arsenic and Old Lace,' two sweet little old ladies perform what they perceive as "mercy killings" on the lonely-hearted in their community using poisoned elderberry wine as the means.

It's been years since I saw it, but I remember it was funny, and I remember one line in particular.

A gentleman is waiting in the parlor, and one of the ladies asks him if he'd like a glass of elderberry wine while he is waiting. With a look of astonishment, he asks whether they really have some. (I guess it's rare) They reply in the affirmative, and one of them goes to fetch a glass of the poisoned wine.

He says to the other, "I thought I'd had my last glass of elderberry wine!"

At that moment the other lady comes in and says, "Oh, no! Here it is!"


I love that play! I performed in it at our community theater a few years ago.

[OP_Carl]

They ORDAINed elder in church. Elders were told by Paul God made them overseers to feed the flock of God. Elder ineed refering to ministers.

I've heard it preached that ALL saints are "ministers" and have a "ministry."

Where are the welders of the church? Do they sit next to the electricians, or the pipefitters?

[Truthseeker]

I've heard it preached that ALL saints are "ministers" and have a "ministry."

Where are the welders of the church? Do they sit next to the electricians, or the pipefitters?

Elders refers to those ordained to take the oversight of the church, scripturally speaking that is.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Is it now NL Elder YP?

[Old Paths]

Just wondering...where do we get this "elder" stuff from????

Elder this and elder that and elder the other............
I think you cons should stick to the book......I don't see that title used anywhere.



Song 8:6

6 Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm: for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as the grave: the coals thereof are coals of fire, which hath a most vehement flame.
KJV



:winkgrin

[deseret]

Song 8:6

6 Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm: for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as the grave: the coals thereof are coals of fire, which hath a most vehement flame.
KJV



:winkgrin

:choir

[Old Paths]

Just wondering...where do we get this "elder" stuff from????

Elder this and elder that and elder the other............
I think you cons should stick to the book......I don't see that title used anywhere.



Sooooooo NLYP is NOT to be considered a "con"?


:killinme:killinme

[OP_Carl]

Sooooooo NLYP is NOT to be considered a "con"?


:killinme:killinme

I think he might be a switch-hitter. He swats from both the left and the right. I suspect mostly for his own amusement. :D

Frankly, I fall prey to this myself from time to time. I guess I've never outgrown my childhood fascination of poking frogs and snakes to see how they'll react. (I'm not implying anything here, by the way) :rolleyes2

[Falla39]

Just wondering...where do we get this "elder" stuff from????

Elder this and elder that and elder the other............
I think you cons should stick to the book......I don't see that title used anywhere.

Paul, in instructing Timothy in I Tim. 5:1, tells him first of all, Rebuke not

an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;

vs. 2, The elder (older) women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with

all purity. (Are these older and younger women ministers, the younger men?)

I believe we have Paul telling the younger Timothy how to treat people.

It appears to me he is telling Timothy as a younger man to treat the elder

(older) men as fathers, the younger men as brothers, the elder women as

mothers and the younger as sisters, as if she were your sister. In other

words treat the people as you would a family.

My pastor dad used to tell younger ministers, "Adults do not like to be

treated like children! They will resent it". And that it a fact! Having seen

churches left in the hands of a young minister while the pastor went to

Gen. Conf. or Campmeeting, and to come home only to have problems

because the young minister didn't know his place. They were not left to

take care of "pastoring" but only to lead the services temporarily. When

the Word speaks of things being done "decently and in order" it is not

meaning to take over that which is not your responsibility. Also there is

an order to the family. When Dad and Mom left we older children in charge

if they needed to occasionally go shopping, etc. we knew we were not

there to "boss" the younger but to make sure they were cared for and

kept safe until our parents returned. The older cared for the younger,

not the other way around. We were not there to "raise" our younger

siblings, but to temporarily care for them. God has a family too!

We are living in a day where there is not the respect for the elders as

when we were growing up. We were TAUGHT to respect our elders and

if we didn't we were made to regret not doing so.

Prov. 30:11 states: "There is a generation that curseth their father, and

doth not bless their mother".

I believe Paul was addressing this issue of how to treat family! The

family in the home and the church family.

Blessings,

Falla39

[The Dean]

Just wondering...where do we get this "elder" stuff from????

Elder this and elder that and elder the other............
I think you cons should stick to the book......I don't see that title used anywhere.

Just opened up this thread and read this first post.

NLYP, you're going to lose this one big time!



:igotit

[Truthseeker]

Paul, in instructing Timothy in I Tim. 5:1, tells him first of all, Rebuke not

an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;

vs. 2, The elder (older) women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with

all purity. (Are these older and younger women ministers, the younger men?)

I believe we have Paul telling the younger Timothy how to treat people.

It appears to me he is telling Timothy as a younger man to treat the elder

(older) men as fathers, the younger men as brothers, the elder women as

mothers and the younger as sisters, as if she were your sister. In other

words treat the people as you would a family.

My pastor dad used to tell younger ministers, "Adults do not like to be

treated like children! They will resent it". And that it a fact! Having seen

churches left in the hands of a young minister while the pastor went to

Gen. Conf. or Campmeeting, and to come home only to have problems

because the young minister didn't know his place. They were not left to

take care of "pastoring" but only to lead the services temporarily. When

the Word speaks of things being done "decently and in order" it is not

meaning to take over that which is not your responsibility. Also there is

an order to the family. When Dad and Mom left we older children in charge

if they needed to occasionally go shopping, etc. we knew we were not

there to "boss" the younger but to make sure they were cared for and

kept safe until our parents returned. The older cared for the younger,

not the other way around. We were not there to "raise" our younger

siblings, but to temporarily care for them. God has a family too!

We are living in a day where there is not the respect for the elders as

when we were growing up. We were TAUGHT to respect our elders and

if we didn't we were made to regret not doing so.

Prov. 30:11 states: "There is a generation that curseth their father, and

doth not bless their mother".

I believe Paul was addressing this issue of how to treat family! The

family in the home and the church family.

Blessings,

Falla39


While elder can represent older folks, it was used to describe bishop/overseers.

[Drama Queen]

Just wondering...where do we get this "elder" stuff from????

Elder this and elder that and elder the other............
I think you cons should stick to the book......I don't see that title used anywhere.

Awh hun... sometimes I think your just asking for it... what, I don't give you enough grief at home? Maybe I should up it a bit... :diggin:smack

[chosenbyone]

MomC (SisFalla39),

Your posts have always reflected such wisdom, which reminded me of Job 32:7, ...., 'Age should speak; advanced years should teach wisdom.' Even my generation was taught to respect our elders and the wisdom they garnered through the years that they were so willing to impart on others. This younger generation have not been given the tools and the guidance to continue what clearly the Word of God instructed for them to do in their lives.

We must not forget that the Word of God was given to us for instruction and a compass for our souls. The Lord has given us ministers, pastors and teachers that we should honor regardless of what our own personal opinion might be on matters such as standards. People have made such flippant, slanderous remarks about the elders and ministers of our movement and they did it with what appeared to be some sense of entitlement. Too many have grown rebellious, proud and spiritually lazy, which would only lead to a life void of direction.


The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching. 1 Timothy 5:17

Not only were we instructed to honor the elders, ministers, pastors and teachers among us, but we should do likewise to all of our brothers and sisters in Christ.

Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves. Romans 12:10

With respect and honor to you, dear sister and mother in the Lord...

chosen

[Praxeas]

The term "elder" is used 68 times in the New Testament. How many times is "youth pastor" used? ;)
How many times is "Youth pastor that does not read the bible" used? Good grief!

[revrandy]

Just wondering...where do we get this "elder" stuff from????

Elder this and elder that and elder the other............
I think you cons should stick to the book......I don't see that title used anywhere.

That's what you get when you only use Rick Warren's material for preaching!! :choir:choir

Try the Bible.. it works!! Snicker!!! :D:D:D:D

[OP_Carl]

Good stuff, profound stuff, guiding words, and funny stuff all dwelling in one thread in perfect harmony . . . . it's a beautiful thing!

[Sam]

I had never heard anyone called Elder or Bishop until I started posting on FCF... I think it is more of an ultra-con thing that is carrying over into the mainstream.

I'm about as liberal as they come but I like the term "elder."
On my ordination certificate and on my annual fellowship card, it says "Elder James A. Ellis." I just think it's more Scriptural. I have no problem with "Rev." or "Pastor." Those are terms that are familiar to most folks so we use those too. This past Saturday I drove into the parking lot of a funeral home. The attendant met me with one of those flags they put on the cars of those in the funeral procession and asked me if I was going to the cemetery. I said, "I'm the pastor who is conducting the service today," and he had me just leave my vehicle so he could park it where it would would go in the procession to the cemetery. Actually, I am not a pastor but I used that term because he could relate to it. The term "elder" might not have meant anything to him. And, even though I am not officially a pastor, I was functioning as a pastor to that family with the permission of the church they called (even though I no longer attend that church).

[revrandy]

I prefer Elder to Brother....myself.. I agree Sam...

I think it's a term of leadership and respect...

[Sam]

This is from page 22 of the bylaws of a Oneness Pentecostal organization.
(I have left the name of the organization out)

Section 5. Titles Used In Reference To The Minister
No minister in ...(name of organization)... shall be referred to as Reverend. The Bible gives titles to which we may refer to one another. They are: Bishop, Elder, Evangelist, Missionary, Pastor, Teacher, and Apostle.

[Ferd]

Awh hun... sometimes I think your just asking for it... what, I don't give you enough grief at home? Maybe I should up it a bit... :diggin:smack

LOL! Yes by all mean PLEASE!

[RandyWayne]

Am I the ONLY one here who prefers someone to call me by my first name?

Seriously, I will call someone "Brother so and so" if they want me to, but I don't LIKE doing it because it reminds me of the Elks, or the Royal Order of the Racoons (and now we call to the stage Bro Kramden and Bro Norton...) or the Royal order of the Water Buffalo's (and now we call to the stage, Bro Flinstone and Bro Rubble...).

[revrandy]

Am I the ONLY here who prefers someone to call me by my first name?

Seriously, I will call someone "Brother so and so" if they want me to, but I don't LIKE doing it because it reminds me of the Elks, or the Royal Order of the Racoons (and now we call to the stage Bro Kramden and Bro Norton...) or the Royal order of the Water Buffalo's (and now we call to the stage, Bro Flinstone and Bro Rubble...).

I too..prefer First Names...

I've often asked what was the Apostle Paul's Last name??

Nobody knows...

[Falla39]

While elder can represent older folks, it was used to describe bishop/overseers.

Bro./Sis.(?)Truthseeker,

Please permit me to explain what I was endeavoring to explain in

I Tim. 5:1,2. Paul is writing to Timothy, who was the first bishop to

the Ephesian church. He is telling this young man who was ordained

by the laying on of hands for the ministry. Paul believes in Timothy. He

has seen the unpretended faith in him that Paul had also seen in Timothy's

grandmother, Lois, and in his mother, Eunice. He is exhorting Timothy for

the work of the ministry. Paul feels the need to give some words of exhort-

ation to him though. Now here we are at I Tim.5:1,2. Timothy, "Rebuke

not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;

The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity".

How would Timothy know how to treat people unless Paul gave him the

example. Like your own father or mother (with respect and honour). Like

your own brother, Timothy, or your own sister.(with all purity) respect.

I am not arguing at all. I'm just explaining what appears to be the case or

situation here. Paul knows Timothy will have huge problems if he doesn't

understand these things. Timothy, don't go rebuking your elders, treat them

as you would your father and mother. (Paul knew what the law said about

honouring your father and mother and why). treat your young men as you

would your brothers, and the younger as you would your sisters. Respect

each in their place. Sounds like some good fatherly advice to me!

Blessings,

Falla39

[RandyWayne]

I've often asked what was the Apostle Paul's Last name??

Nobody knows...

Can you imagine how much easier it would be for historians if we DID know?

[Sam]

...
I think NLYP doesn't like it because he's too young to be called elder.

There are times when the term does seem a little strange. In 1958 or 1959 (don't remember which) I was in Niles, MI which was the headquarters Church of a small OP organization. I was not licensed by them at the time (I did join later) but I had preached in some of their churches. The pastor of this church was over 70 years old so she was about half a century older than I and it seemed strange when she referred to me as "Elder Ellis." Now that I am an old man it seems OK. In 2004 when I was in Mexico, I happened to read James 5:14 and the word "ancianos" is used.

[Falla39]

MomC (SisFalla39),

Your posts have always reflected such wisdom, which reminded me of Job 32:7, ...., 'Age should speak; advanced years should teach wisdom.' Even my generation was taught to respect our elders and the wisdom they garnered through the years that they were so willing to impart on others. This younger generation have not been given the tools and the guidance to continue what clearly the Word of God instructed for them to do in their lives.

We must not forget that the Word of God was given to us for instruction and a compass for our souls. The Lord has given us ministers, pastors and teachers that we should honor regardless of what our own personal opinion might be on matters such as standards. People have made such flippant, slanderous remarks about the elders and ministers of our movement and they did it with what appeared to be some sense of entitlement. Too many have grown rebellious, proud and spiritually lazy, which would only lead to a life void of direction.


The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching. 1 Timothy 5:17

Not only were we instructed to honor the elders, ministers, pastors and teachers among us, but we should do likewise to all of our brothers and sisters in Christ.

Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves. Romans 12:10

With respect and honor to you, dear sister and mother in the Lord...

chosen

Bro. Chosen,

Very good post! Very insightful!

Blessings,

Falla39

[deseret]

Am I the ONLY one here who prefers someone to call me by my first name?

Seriously, I will call someone "Brother so and so" if they want me to, but I don't LIKE doing it because it reminds me of the Elks, or the Royal Order of the Racoons (and now we call to the stage Bro Kramden and Bro Norton...) or the Royal order of the Water Buffalo's (and now we call to the stage, Bro Flinstone and Bro Rubble...).

I would rather not be called "brother". :) I don't care for the secret handshake. (your hand in my hand, half a hug) :)

[RandyWayne]

I would rather not be called "brother". I don't care for the secret handshake. (your hand in my hand, half a hug)

LOL
So no Knights Templar style theatrics?

[Sam]

... elder is a term applied to specific leadership in the Church under Christ. Paul was an apostle, not an elder.

Peter was an Apostle (Matthew 10:2) and also an Elder (1 Peter 5:1).

[deseret]

LOL
So no Knights Templar style theatrics?

Pauperes commilitones Christi Templique Solomonici

No, thank you. :)

[Praxeas]

I prefer Elder to Brother....myself.. I agree Sam...

I think it's a term of leadership and respect...
I never really cared for either, especially from someone I consider a friend in conversation...it seems to stuffy

[Praxeas]

Am I the ONLY one here who prefers someone to call me by my first name?

Seriously, I will call someone "Brother so and so" if they want me to, but I don't LIKE doing it because it reminds me of the Elks, or the Royal Order of the Racoons (and now we call to the stage Bro Kramden and Bro Norton...) or the Royal order of the Water Buffalo's (and now we call to the stage, Bro Flinstone and Bro Rubble...).
you are not the only one

[Pressing-On]

So, if a lady is a preacher do they also call her "Doc" and "Bo"? That kills me! Why do I think of polo shirts when I hear it? :killinme

[Monkeyman]

I prefer Dawg and poundin' knuckles

[crakjak]

thought I would shock you all...ha..http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa132/missionary_2007/Figura171.jpg

How about those long sleeves and high shirt collars?:winkgrin:winkgrin

[crakjak]

thought I would shock you all...ha..http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa132/missionary_2007/Figura171.jpg

Sister Alvear,

My daughter just returned from Uruguay on a five week medical mission and university study program. Her team visited Brazil and Argentina while they were there, don't know the cities or locals that they visited. They did free clinics and hospital work.

[Sister Alvear]

would have loved to met her. I worked for several years at a leper colony. I dearly loved those people.

[Sister Alvear]

One of my sons is up in the jungle right now. We are worried about him becase he was supposed to have called us 2 days ago.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

The Heartlight Scriptures are random- meaning we don't have any imput in what is shown.

Today is timely.

Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;
1 Timothy 5:1

[Trouvere]

I had never heard anyone called Elder or Bishop until I started posting on FCF... I think it is more of an ultra-con thing that is carrying over into the mainstream.

Sorry but the black churches use these terms all the time along with
Evangelist and missionary.I have heard all these terms all my life
and I did not grow up pentecostal.

[Barb]

Sorry but the black churches use these terms all the time along with
Evangelist and missionary.I have heard all these terms all my life
and I did not grow up pentecostal.

This is true...in the Church Of Our Lord Jesus Christ of the Apolstolic Faith, men who are called to preach (and only men...no women preachers in the COOLJC) receive a Minister's license (in the UPCI it would be a General license), and are thereafter referred to as Minister Tom Jones or whatever. When they are ordained, they receive an Elder's license, and are called Elder Tom Jones.

States are divided into diocese (UPCI in MI calls them Sections) and are under appointed District Elders

Men are appointed to the office of bishop based largely on accomplishments having first been District Elder.

The Apostle Board is by election...not sure how this happens...perhaps the bishops vote.

[Falla39]

The Heartlight Scriptures are random- meaning we don't have any imput in what is shown.

Today is timely.

Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;
1 Timothy 5:1

And the 2nd verse says?

And what would you say these two verses were addressing?

(See Post #103)

Blessings,

Falla39

[Sheltiedad]

Sorry but the black churches use these terms all the time along with
Evangelist and missionary.I have heard all these terms all my life
and I did not grow up pentecostal.

No reason to apologize... nothing you said invalidates my experience. :) Growing up in the UPC in Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas in the 70's and 80's, that term was not commonly used for preachers. I do have some relatives that wore sleeves to their wrist and the women wore skirts to their ankles and I think they might have used the term Elder, but they were not UPC (This would have been the church that Coonskinner grew up in).

I do find it hilarious that based on this thread, there is a stance that calling people Brother or Reverend is wrong... It is one more of a gazillion examples where tradition was wrong and those "wizened old prayer warriors of old" missed the boat and should have switched to "Elder" long ago... and one more domino of tradition falls... :D

And STILL no one has said why we don't add a title to the front of Jesus or Paul or Peter and we just call them by their first names... if it is a respect thing then surely they would always get a title in front of their name.

[Pressing-On]

Bro./Sis.(?)Truthseeker,

Please permit me to explain what I was endeavoring to explain in

I Tim. 5:1,2. Paul is writing to Timothy, who was the first bishop to

the Ephesian church. He is telling this young man who was ordained

by the laying on of hands for the ministry. Paul believes in Timothy. He

has seen the unpretended faith in him that Paul had also seen in Timothy's

grandmother, Lois, and in his mother, Eunice. He is exhorting Timothy for

the work of the ministry. Paul feels the need to give some words of exhort-

ation to him though. Now here we are at I Tim.5:1,2. Timothy, "Rebuke

not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;

The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity".

How would Timothy know how to treat people unless Paul gave him the

example. Like your own father or mother (with respect and honour). Like

your own brother, Timothy, or your own sister.(with all purity) respect.

I am not arguing at all. I'm just explaining what appears to be the case or

situation here. Paul knows Timothy will have huge problems if he doesn't

understand these things. Timothy, don't go rebuking your elders, treat them

as you would your father and mother. (Paul knew what the law said about

honouring your father and mother and why). treat your young men as you

would your brothers, and the younger as you would your sisters. Respect

each in their place. Sounds like some good fatherly advice to me!

Blessings,

Falla39
Excellent explanation, Sister Falla!!

[Pressing-On]

No reason to apologize... nothing you said invalidates my experience. :) Growing up in the UPC in Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas in the 70's and 80's, that term was not commonly used for preachers. I do have some relatives that wore sleeves to their wrist and the women wore skirts to their ankles and I think they might have used the term Elder, but they were not UPC (This would have been the church that Coonskinner grew up in).

I do find it hilarious that based on this thread, there is a stance that calling people Brother or Reverend is wrong... It is one more of a gazillion examples where tradition was wrong and those "wizened old prayer warriors of old" missed the boat and should have switched to "Elder" long ago... and one more domino of tradition falls... :D

And STILL no one has said why we don't add a title to the front of Jesus or Paul or Peter and we just call them by their first names... if it is a respect thing then surely they would always get a title in front of their name.
I've always wondered that myself. Is it because we used Mr. and Mrs. for so long? I think that slowly started to change during the late 60's and on.

We had a 5th grade art teacher that insisted we call her by her first name. When our regular teacher heard about it she had us write on our papers - 500 times - "I will not call Miss Allen - Camilia."

Now, it would be, "I will not call Camilia, Ms. Allen." lol

[Barb]

No reason to apologize... nothing you said invalidates my experience. :) Growing up in the UPC in Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas in the 70's and 80's, that term was not commonly used for preachers. I do have some relatives that wore sleeves to their wrist and the women wore skirts to their ankles and I think they might have used the term Elder, but they were not UPC (This would have been the church that Coonskinner grew up in).

I do find it hilarious that based on this thread, there is a stance that calling people Brother or Reverend is wrong... It is one more of a gazillion examples where tradition was wrong and those "wizened old prayer warriors of old" missed the boat and should have switched to "Elder" long ago... and one more domino of tradition falls... :D

And STILL no one has said why we don't add a title to the front of Jesus or Paul or Peter and we just call them by their first names... if it is a respect thing then surely they would always get a title in front of their name.
Don't have an answer...could be as PO stated, more or less, that titles have been part of our culture and they didn't seem to be then.

At any rate, titles are a sign of respect for me...

[Pressing-On]

Don't have an answer...could be as PO stated, more or less, that titles have been part of our culture and they didn't seem to be then.

At any rate, titles are a sign of respect for me...

I think titles are a sign of respect.

I have seen a switch from calling the pastor "brother" to calling him "pastor" in the last few years. That's also another change I have seen.

[Sheltiedad]

I am just weird! I see it more and more, especially when I talk to people in this Apostolic culture I grew up in. I am usually flattered when someone refers to me by my first name. I consider that a sign of respect, and not a, "How dare someone use my first name, what audacity!" like some people seem to. If I respect someone, I refer to them by their first name, unless they are really old or they are my parents.

I honestly scratch my head wondering how I turned out so different than most of my peers...

[Pressing-On]

I am just weird! I see it more and more, especially when I talk to people in this Apostolic culture I grew up in. I am usually flattered when someone refers to me by my first name. I consider that a sign of respect, and not a, "How dare someone use my first name, what audacity!" like some people seem to. If I respect someone, I refer to them by their first name, unless they are really old or they are my parents.

That's cause you're still "wet behind the ears", boy!

:bliss

[Sheltiedad]

and I think 99% of tradition is silly... both religious and societal... lol.

The scary thing is most people seem to get more conservative as they get older, I just see more and more that nothing is absolute.

[Pressing-On]

and I think 99% of tradition is silly... both religious and societal... lol.

The scary thing is most people seem to get more conservative as they get older, I just see more and more that nothing is absolute.

You'll change in your late 40's and have even more definite opinions.

[Sheltiedad]

You'll change in your late 40's and have even more definite opinions.

I guess that is possible... I know that I feel differently about things now at 36 than I did in my 20's.

Not to beat a dead horse, but if I feel that someone is my brother, I don't place a title in front of his name... and if I feel that someone is my "elder" I don't place a title in front of their name.

I also have no interest in hanging out in groups where everyone has to refer to each other with titles... it just seems a little too Victorian or pompous or something for me... not sure if I am explaining that right. It just makes me think of ladies sitting around drinking tea with their pinky finger pointed out and being proud of all of their different titles that they can call each other.

[rgcraig]

If you notice even in society things have changed from what they were in the 50's - 60's. In the corporate world it was common to address your superiors as "Mr. Johnson" or Mrs. Smith", however that has relaxed in most areas and now you simple refer to your boss or even the president of the company by their first name.

Don't know what that has to do with calling the church folks Elder, Brother or Sister, but perhaps it is relevant too.

[Titus2Mom]

I can understand that in the religious world they call preachers Reverend. However the Lord's name is Reverend and since I am not him I choose to be called a Biblical term.:winkgrin Us cons are like that.

UGH!!!!!!!!! "Reverend __________" is like nails on a chalkboard to me! I really don't like that title (or any title really) but that one is the worst. Like you said, the only reference to it is in Psalms and it is referring to God's name. It is like saying "awesome is the name of God." Some how I couldn't see Paul or Peter referring to themselves as "Paul the Awesome" or "Awesome Peter" ...same difference.

[Pressing-On]

I guess that is possible... I know that I feel differently about things now at 36 than I did in my 20's.

Not to beat a dead horse, but if I feel that someone is my brother, I don't place a title in front of his name... and if I feel that someone is my "elder" I don't place a title in front of their name.

I also have no interest in hanging out in groups where everyone has to refer to each other with titles... it just seems a little too Victorian or pompous or something for me... not sure if I am explaining that right. It just makes me think of ladies sitting around drinking tea with their pinky finger pointed out and being proud of all of their different titles that they can call each other.

I've noticed that the city churches don't stick to the "brother and sister" thing as much as the smaller churches. In the smaller churches, and this is just my experience, they get offended if they are not called, "Sister So and So". Don't know as the men care one way or another, unless, they feel very important. :winkgrin

[Pressing-On]

UGH!!!!!!!!! "Reverend __________" is like nails on a chalkboard to me! I really don't like that title (or any title really) but that one is the worst. Like you said, the only reference to it is in Psalms and it is referring to God's name. It is like saying "awesome is the name of God." Some how I couldn't see Paul or Peter referring to themselves as "Paul the Awesome" or "Awesome Peter" ...same difference.

Ditto for me. A person that allows that is suspect, IMO. We have enough problems without gravitating to being pompus.

I did hear Brother Ensey - well there ya go (lol) - say that we have just about turned the movement into the papacy. Said it at camp, too! On the platform!!! :killinme

There is some glaring truth to that.

[Barb]

My brother pastors a small country church in central IL and the folks call them "Bro. & Sis. McGee," but I don't think it's because Jim or Julie insist on it...rather I think it is tradition, and again, respect.

I have a friend who is a pastor's wife, and when we first met, it took some doing for me to call her by her first name.

Can't help it...I don't think it's elevating the person to use a title and is only pomposity if they insist on it, as if it is a tremendous sin against all that is holy if we don't.

But by the same token, do y'all think perhaps the laxness of referring to Saints as brother and sister accounts for any taking for granted, as in, "Oh that's just Jim or Susie" or whomever.

And what of children who refer to adults by their first name?!

What say ye?!

If I don't get back here to check in with y'all, it's because I'm coughing like crazy..think I'm going to take something and lie down for a bit...:IAM

[Falla39]

The Heartlight Scriptures are random- meaning we don't have any imput in what is shown.

Today is timely.

Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;
1 Timothy 5:1

It just may be, Timothy, if you listen to the elder, as a father,

you just might save yourself some "beatings", "shipwrecks" and

"imprisonments", etc., some things he went through.

Timothy, you may have ten thousand instructors, but not many

fathers. I have begotten you by the gospel, son, Timothy.

- thoughts from an elder sister.

Falla39

[Rhoni]

My brother pastors a small country church in central IL and the folks call them "Bro. & Sis. McGee," but I don't think it's because Jim or Julie insist on it...rather I think it is tradition, and again, respect.

I have a friend who is a pastor's wife, and when we first met, it took some doing for me to call her by her first name.

Can't help it...I don't think it's elevating the person to use a title and is only pomposity if they insist on it, as if it is a tremendous sin against all that is holy if we don't.

But by the same token, do y'all think perhaps the laxness of referring to Saints as brother and sister accounts for any taking for granted, as in, "Oh that's just Jim or Susie" or whomever.

And what of children who refer to adults by their first name?!

What say ye?!

If I don't get back here to check in with y'all, it's because I'm coughing like crazy..think I'm going to take something and lie down for a bit...:IAM

Sis. Barb,

I am from the old school and feel that those in a position of respect, whether I respect them or not, should be addressed respectfully. All children should address their elders appropriately, Mr. Mrs, Bro or Sis. As I have gotten older, there are so few so much older than myself but if they are in a Pastoral Position I always address them Pastor, or Bro. & Sis. When I really like them I call them Pastor B.:winkgrin

Blessings, Rhoni

[Falla39]

My brother pastors a small country church in central IL and the folks call them "Bro. & Sis. McGee," but I don't think it's because Jim or Julie insist on it...rather I think it is tradition, and again, respect.

I have a friend who is a pastor's wife, and when we first met, it took some doing for me to call her by her first name.

Can't help it...I don't think it's elevating the person to use a title and is only pomposity if they insist on it, as if it is a tremendous sin against all that is holy if we don't.

But by the same token, do y'all think perhaps the laxness of referring to Saints as brother and sister accounts for any taking for granted, as in, "Oh that's just Jim or Susie" or whomever.

And what of children who refer to adults by their first name?!What say ye?!

If I don't get back here to check in with y'all, it's because I'm coughing like crazy..think I'm going to take something and lie down for a bit...:IAM


Sis. Barb,

It wasn't allowed in the home where I was "trained" up. There were

a lot more things that were not allowed in that time of "Train up a

child..". Children that have a problem with authority in the home,

usually have problems with other positions of authority. That's why

you see children who are rebellious in the home, they will have trouble

with authority in the school, with the law, in the military, etc.

Blessings,

Falla39

[Rico]

I am just weird! I see it more and more, especially when I talk to people in this Apostolic culture I grew up in. I am usually flattered when someone refers to me by my first name. I consider that a sign of respect, and not a, "How dare someone use my first name, what audacity!" like some people seem to. If I respect someone, I refer to them by their first name, unless they are really old or they are my parents.

I honestly scratch my head wondering how I turned out so different than most of my peers...

Referring to someone by their first name is considered a breach of etiquette, unless the person gives you permission.

[Steve Epley]

Referring to someone by their first name is considered a breach of etiquette, unless the person gives you permission.

Really I agree the worse false prophet there is I would call Pastor or something? My country raising. Folks up look at me when I call women Ms. so& so but roots are deep.

[Pressing-On]

My brother pastors a small country church in central IL and the folks call them "Bro. & Sis. McGee," but I don't think it's because Jim or Julie insist on it...rather I think it is tradition, and again, respect.

I have a friend who is a pastor's wife, and when we first met, it took some doing for me to call her by her first name.

Can't help it...I don't think it's elevating the person to use a title and is only pomposity if they insist on it, as if it is a tremendous sin against all that is holy if we don't.

But by the same token, do y'all think perhaps the laxness of referring to Saints as brother and sister accounts for any taking for granted, as in, "Oh that's just Jim or Susie" or whomever.

And what of children who refer to adults by their first name?!

What say ye?!

If I don't get back here to check in with y'all, it's because I'm coughing like crazy..think I'm going to take something and lie down for a bit...:IAM
Barb,
I hope you get to feeling better! I'm thankful my cold didn't turn into the coughing spell. It has done that in the past. I just take extra Vit C and that really helps.

I do think the, "Oh, that's just Jim or Susie" does have a lot to do with leaving off the Brother and Sister thing.

Remember when Ananias laid hands on Paul and prayed? The first thing he said was, "Brother Saul."

So, I'm thinking, just because the Bible doesn't continue using the Brother and Sister before each name, I'm not sure they never did that.

Perhaps, Ananias just wanted to reassure Saul that he was accepted by them, at the outset of their meeting, and that was the only point. I don't know.

Anyway, I'm from the old school also and it just feels weird when my son's friends, some of them, call me by my first name.

[Sheltiedad]

Referring to someone by their first name is considered a breach of etiquette, unless the person gives you permission.

If someone doesn't want me to refer to them by their first name then we are not equals and therefore I don't have any desire to be around them.

[rgcraig]

If someone doesn't want me to refer to them by their first name then we are not equals and therefore I don't have any desire to be around them.

Sheltie,

You can call me Renda. I'm glad you don't require me to call you Mr. Dad.

[Rico]

If someone doesn't want me to refer to them by their first name then we are not equals and therefore I don't have any desire to be around them.

Sheltiedad, it's rude to call people by their first name without their permission. That's Etiquette 101. It has nothing to do with people being equals. It's a matter of showing respect to people you don't know well enough to speak to in an informal manner.

[SarahElizabeth]

I haven't read this whole thread - just started reading the end of it....What about family members? After I got married, I still called my mother-in-law, "Sis. and then her first name"....My daughter-in-law started calling me by first name without the Sis. part right off the bat....That's ok with me...I am fine with it, but what about others? Is this the norm now in your neck of the woods? Do you think a daughter-in-law should use the Sis. part and vice versa with son-in-laws to their father-in-laws?...Should they use "Bro. and then the first name?"..

[Barb]

Barb,
I hope you getting to feeling better! I'm thankful my cold didn't turn into the coughing spell. It has done that in the past. I just take extra Vit C and that really helps.

I do think the, "Oh, that's just Jim or Susie" does have a lot to do with leaving off the Brother and Sister thing.

Remember when Ananias laid hands on Paul and prayed? The first thing he said was, "Brother Saul."

So, I'm thinking, just because the Bible doesn't continue using the Brother and Sister before each name, I'm not sure they never did that.

Perhaps, Ananias just wanted to reassure Saul that he was accepted by them, at the outset of their meeting, and that was the only point. I don't know.

Anyway, I'm from the old school also and it just feels weird when my son's friends, some of them, call me by my first name.


PO, my fear is that we become so matter of fact with each other that the Body becomes a common thing...not sure if I'm expressing this right.

But when we no longer discern the Lord's Body with a certain level of respect and godly love, it begins somewhere, ya know?!

Some take "touch not mine anointed" to just mean preachers, but if we are in the Body, we are all of the Anointed One. He dwells in this earthen vessel...

This Scripture just dropped on my heart...

Gal 6:10

10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
KJV

If we pay extra attention and respect to the household of faith, I think it is a good thing.

And thank you, PO...I'm trying to feel better...not coughing as much as this morning...:IAM

[Falla39]

Really I agree the worse false prophet there is I would call Pastor or something? My country raising. Folks up look at me when I call women Ms. so& so but roots are deep.

Bro. Epley,

You are right about roots are deep! Mine having been going down

for a long time! Growing where I was planted fifty years ago

next year. You know your roots are pretty deep when the tree

has been there a long time and the branches are there and when

the storms come and howl and blow, the roots just go down deeper.

Sometimes you see a large tree you would never think would uproot,

but a tornado or a terrible thunderstorm come along and you see it

lying there with the roots exposed. Those roots looked like they had

died because they were not very long. They just looked like they

were deep-rooted until they were exposed.

Just some more thoughts from an elder sister.

Falla39

[Pressing-On]

PO, my fear is that we become so matter of fact with each other that the Body becomes a common thing...not sure if I'm expressing this right.

But when we no longer discern the Lord's Body with a certain level of respect and godly love, it begins somewhere, ya know?!

Some take "touch not mine anointed" to just mean preachers, but if we are in the Body, we are all of the Anointed One. He dwells in this earthen vessel...

This Scripture just dropped on my heart...

Gal 6:10

10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
KJV

If we pay extra attention and respect to the household of faith, I think it is a good thing.

And thank you, PO...I'm trying to feel better...not coughing as much as this morning...:IAM
Yes, and we are dressing more lax. Not against anyone, but I could never see myself wearing flip-flops to church. I just wasn't raised that way.

You are right about the "touch not mine anointed". The Lord showed me that as a new convert. I saw that I needed that understanding through the years. :D

When I have the coughing and one year I coughed for at least two months! My son and husband were both getting mad at me. (lol) My son said, "Mother stop coughing!!!!"

I finally went to the doctor who didn't help me at all and only cost me $350. Anyway, I heard a popping noise after one racking cough and I'm sure I cracked a rib. Every time I get even a cold, I feel a little sharpness in that area.

Any time I feel that coming on I stop all sugar and caffeine and it never progresses any further. Too much pain to take a chance.

Hoping you feel better - soon! I feel great today! Still a bit congested, but I can tell it won't be getting worse.

[ChicagoPastor]

I think titles are silly in the first place, but why not just keep using "Brother" or "Pastor" like everyone has used for years and years rather than jump on whatever the latest trend of cool titles are.

To be consistent, we should refer to Jesus and the Apostles as, Elder Jesus or Elder Paul, etc. :D Oh, I forgot, it is okay to refer to them by their first names...

Just curious...what was Jesus' last name?

[rgcraig]

Just curious...what was Jesus' last name?

I know, I know:hanky.....SonofGod!

[Sheltiedad]

Just curious...what was Jesus' last name?

Does it really matter? If titles are required then we should call him Reverend Jesus (since Reverend is only for God and all).

[Sheltiedad]

Sheltiedad, it's rude to call people by their first name without their permission. That's Etiquette 101. It has nothing to do with people being equals. It's a matter of showing respect to people you don't know well enough to speak to in an informal manner.

Etiquiette is just tradition for rich people. If we had followed all of the "etiquiette" for our wedding everyone would still be buying each other gifts three years later.

I can't think of a single person that I call Mr. or Mrs.

When I meet a new person, they introduce themselves with their first name and I introduce myself with mine. Maybe I just live in the twilight zone or something....

[Barb]

Does it really matter? If titles are required then we should call him Reverend Jesus (since Reverend is only for God and all).

LOL!! "Required" is not the proper word for those of us who extend it...I don't do so because it is required but because I think it is the right thing to do.

That's just me and my opinion...doesn't make it gospel...:winkgrin

[Barb]

Etiquiette is just tradition for rich people. If we had followed all of the "etiquiette" for our wedding everyone would still be buying each other gifts three years later.

I can't think of a single person that I call Mr. or Mrs.

When I meet a new person, they introduce themselves with their first name and I introduce myself with mine. Maybe I just live in the twilight zone or something....

LOL!! Etiquiette is proper and right for all people...

[Sam]

I never really cared for either, especially from someone I consider a friend in conversation...it seems to stuffy

among folks with whom you are on a first-name basis, titles like elder, pastor, brother, etc. can seem stuffy and are unnecessary.

When the occasion seems to require a title, then "Elder" is more Scriptural (in my opinion) than "Reverend." However, "Brother" or "Pastor" is a little less formal and is fine.

[Sam]

Am I the ONLY one here who prefers someone to call me by my first name?

...).

No, you are not alone with that.
Our pastor is called "Wendell" (which is his first name) or some times he is called "Pastor Wendell."

[Sheltiedad]

Yet Reverend was accepted in Apostolic circles for years... I admit I have been out of touch but this "Reverend" restriction is news to me... just one more thing where something was acceptable 20 years ago but now it isn't because they have thought more about it.

This seems like a pretty basic concept for ordained ministers to have missed for several decades... what else have they missed and what else is still in error, yet to be discovered? women's hair and pants? :D

[Sam]

...The scary thing is most people seem to get more conservative as they get older, ....

An adage says, "As a man ages, his waist expands and his mind narrows."

Maybe I'm an exception. My waist has expanded and so has my mind (I hope).

[Rhoni]

Etiquiette is just tradition for rich people. If we had followed all of the "etiquiette" for our wedding everyone would still be buying each other gifts three years later.

I can't think of a single person that I call Mr. or Mrs.

When I meet a new person, they introduce themselves with their first name and I introduce myself with mine. Maybe I just live in the twilight zone or something....

Dear Sheltie,

Etiquette is like any other rule for civilized cultures. Just like obeying traffic laws keep us from having major wrecks and total chaos in our streets, etiquette keeps us from offending behaviors that break up friends and families because of lack of them.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

Dear Sheltie,

Etiquette is like any other rule for civilized cultures. Just like obeying traffic laws keep us from having major wrecks and total chaos in our streets, etiquette keeps us from offending behaviors that break up friends and families because of lack of them.

Blessings, Rhoni

I just thought I'd quote myself because this is so good!:winkgrin

[Pressing-On]

I just thought I'd quote myself because this is so good!:winkgrin
I think you should do that up in Calligraphy, put a nice black matting and gold frame.

It was good!

Mass reproduce and make you some extra money! :killinme

[Rhoni]

Dear Sheltie,

Etiquette is like any other rule for civilized cultures. Just like obeying traffic laws keep us from having major wrecks and total chaos in our streets, etiquette keeps us from offending behaviors that break up friends and families because of lack of them.



This is as close to calligraphy as I could get...I am not really computer literate...but thatnks for the compliment PO!

Blessings, Rhoni

[Pressing-On]

This is as close to calligraphy as I could get...I am not really computer literate...but thanks for the compliment PO!

Blessings, Rhoni

I don't know how to do it either. If you drag anything over here, it will lose your actual set up.

You're welcome!

Oh, and you might want to correct civilizated. :D

[Truthseeker]

Bro./Sis.(?)Truthseeker,

Please permit me to explain what I was endeavoring to explain in

I Tim. 5:1,2. Paul is writing to Timothy, who was the first bishop to

the Ephesian church. He is telling this young man who was ordained

by the laying on of hands for the ministry. Paul believes in Timothy. He

has seen the unpretended faith in him that Paul had also seen in Timothy's

grandmother, Lois, and in his mother, Eunice. He is exhorting Timothy for

the work of the ministry. Paul feels the need to give some words of exhort-

ation to him though. Now here we are at I Tim.5:1,2. Timothy, "Rebuke

not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;

The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity".

How would Timothy know how to treat people unless Paul gave him the

example. Like your own father or mother (with respect and honour). Like

your own brother, Timothy, or your own sister.(with all purity) respect.

I am not arguing at all. I'm just explaining what appears to be the case or

situation here. Paul knows Timothy will have huge problems if he doesn't

understand these things. Timothy, don't go rebuking your elders, treat them

as you would your father and mother. (Paul knew what the law said about

honouring your father and mother and why). treat your young men as you

would your brothers, and the younger as you would your sisters. Respect

each in their place. Sounds like some good fatherly advice to me!

Blessings,

Falla39


sound like wise advice, but where do get timothy was the first bishop to the ephesian church?

I know say he was a pastor, but where do they get that from?

[Truthseeker]

BTW I noticed in acts 20 Paul called for the Elders of the church which were the bishops of the church. Paul was leaving them and would never see them again but he never mentions Timothy or any one man being the bishop over the church.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Using the term Elder or Bishop or Pastor is more biblical than the term Reverend.

[SarahElizabeth]

I haven't read this whole thread - just started reading the end of it....What about family members? After I got married, I still called my mother-in-law, "Sis. and then her first name"....My daughter-in-law started calling me by first name without the Sis. part right off the bat....That's ok with me...I am fine with it, but what about others? Is this the norm now in your neck of the woods? Do you think a daughter-in-law should use the Sis. part and vice versa with son-in-laws to their father-in-laws?...Should they use "Bro. and then the first name?"..

DOES ANYONE HAVE AN OPINION ABOUT THIS?...DO you call family members Bro. and Sis. or by first names??

[Rico]

DOES ANYONE HAVE AN OPINION ABOUT THIS?...DO you call family members Bro. and Sis. or by first names??

Do you refer to your grandmother as Grandma ******? What about uncles and aunts? Do you refer to them as Aunt ****** or Uncle ******? How about cousins? Do you refer to them as Cousin ******? Nothing wrong with using a title.

[Falla39]

sound like wise advice, but where do get timothy was the first bishop to the ephesian church?
I know say he was a pastor, but where do they get that from?

Bro./Sis. (?)Truthseeker,

Hello,

Actually the notes at the end of the epistles of Paul to Timothy, in my

Bible, states that he was the first bishop of Ephesus.

Please check out the link below for some other sources of information

regarding this.

Blessings,

Falla39






http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Was+Timothy+the+first+bishop+of+Ephesus%3F