Enhancing

[rgcraig]

This was brought up in another thread and I realized that I've never heard it addressed.

If a lady in your church asked for your opinion on having surgery to "enhance" a certain area of her body, how would you advise her?

Is it wrong?

Is that something personal that shouldn't concern anyone else?


Note: I'm sure this topic will swing from one side to the other and we need to make sure that we stay on point. :winkgrin

[Pragmatist]

I think it's between her and God, but she should be aware that she will assuredly be judged by all who notice.

[Digging4Truth]

It is wrong that society has made her feel a need to have such an operation done to feel like a beautiful person.

Either society has had such an impact on here that she feels that she needs this operation to be acceptable or desirable or she is acting upon her own desire to be sexy, desirable, beautiful etc.

Both roads are long winding roads of failure.

Our satisfaction in who we are as a person should not come from our outer appearance but should, instead, come from who we are in our heart, mind, soul & spirit.

All other measurements of beauty, desirability & happiness are exercises in futility and failures in the works.

The wrong would not be in the action... but in the though process that brought them to that place.

God can heal these thought processes but the operation will not.

[RevDWW]

A few deeper questions are:
Why she does not have enough self esteem to love who she is now?
What's the real motive for the "enhancement"?
Will it benefit His kingdom?
How will it effect others?

[rgcraig]

It is wrong that society has made her feel a need to have such an operation done to feel like a beautiful person.

Either society has had such an impact on here that she feels that she needs this operation to be acceptable or desirable or she is acting upon her own desire to be sexy, desirable, beautiful etc.

Both roads are long winding roads of failure.

Our satisfaction in who we are as a person should not come from our outer appearance but should, instead, come from who we are in our heart, mind, soul & spirit.

All other measurements of beauty, desirability & happiness are exercises in futility and failures in the works.

The wrong would not be in the action... but in the though process that brought them to that place.

God can heal these thought processes but the operation will not.

Excellent points~!

[Pressing-On]

I think that if she feels deformed in some areas, such as, lopsided breasts, etc. then I say go for it.

Other than that, I'm the type that says, "If you don't like what you see, then you know where the door is. If you can't find it, I will show it to you, but I'm not sure you want me to be standing behind you when you leave."

Cause we all know, after the honeymoon is over, only your very best friend is still with you 20 years or more down the road.

[rgcraig]

A few deeper questions are:
Why she does not have enough self esteem to love who she is now?
What's the real motive for the "enhancement"?
Will it benefit His kingdom?
How will it effect others?Can't help but giggle at this one......

[LaGirl]

i think it is she and her husbands business.

[RevDWW]

A few deeper questions are:
Why she does not have enough self esteem to love who she is now?
What's the real motive for the "enhancement"?
Will it benefit His kingdom?
How will it effect others?

Can't help but giggle at this one......

It could well be a distraction to His Kingdom.......

[rgcraig]

It could well be a distraction to His Kingdom.......

At least a stumble block!

[LaGirl]

i really doubt it one make a difference to the kingdom. but i did giggle too! :-)

[Digging4Truth]

At least a stumble block!

Only if she was passed out on the floor. :)

[Chan]

It is wrong that society has made her feel a need to have such an operation done to feel like a beautiful person.Society didn't make her feel anything! No one else can force another to feel anything. It's wrong that society has some twisted notion of beauty to which many people feel this need to conform but it's equally wrong to have a need to feel like a "beautiful" person (whatever that's supposed to be). "Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the LORD, she shall be praised" (Proverbs 31:30).

Either society has had such an impact on here that she feels that she needs this operation to be acceptable or desirable or she is acting upon her own desire to be sexy, desirable, beautiful etc.Or she chooses to sin by being conformed to this wicked world instead of being transformed by the renewing of her mind.

Both roads are long winding roads of failure.Agreed.

Our satisfaction in who we are as a person should not come from our outer appearance but should, instead, come from who we are in our heart, mind, soul & spirit.Are we even supposed to have satisfaction in who we are as a person? Aren't we supposed to die to self and to deny ourselves?

All other measurements of beauty, desirability & happiness are exercises in futility and failures in the works.Not to mention vanity.

The wrong would not be in the action... but in the thought process that brought them to that place.But since the action is motivated by the thought process, both would be wrong.

God can heal these thought processes but the operation will not.Agreed.

[COOPER]

It is wrong that society has made her feel a need to have such an operation done to feel like a beautiful person.

Either society has had such an impact on here that she feels that she needs this operation to be acceptable or desirable or she is acting upon her own desire to be sexy, desirable, beautiful etc.

Both roads are long winding roads of failure.

Our satisfaction in who we are as a person should not come from our outer appearance but should, instead, come from who we are in our heart, mind, soul & spirit.

All other measurements of beauty, desirability & happiness are exercises in futility and failures in the works.

The wrong would not be in the action... but in the though process that brought them to that place.

God can heal these thought processes but the operation will not.

Do you believe in Dental work?

[COOPER]

Can't help but giggle at this one......
:slaphappy I know.......will it ben-fit the k-dom :killinme

[RandyWayne]

And on the same issue, what about getting a reduction for the same reason that some may get an enhancement, to look better?
(Again, I suspect that there would be less rejection to a lady doing this by many.)

And comparing this to other things. Both me and my wife got our eyes laziked so we wouldn't have to wear glasses or contacts anymore.
We will both be getting a tooth implant (one each) to replace molars which had been pulled over the past couple of years.

I haven't even brought up women who dealt with breast cancer and want to look "normal" again.

[COOPER]

This was brought up in another thread and I realized that I've never heard it addressed.

If a lady in your church asked for your opinion on having surgery to "enhance" a certain area of her body, how would you advise her?

Is it wrong?

Is that something personal that shouldn't concern anyone else?


Note: I'm sure this topic will swing from one side to the other and we need to make sure that we stay on point. :winkgrin

God put em' there first and I know most girl's want to bloom.

I can see the self esteem problem if one did not bloom.

So what is wrong with an improvement to fell better about ones self and to get the blooming things from a doctor?

[Digging4Truth]

Do you believe in Dental work?

Hey Brother Coop...

You will notice that I never said I didn't "believe" in the procedure. Of course, neither did I say that I "believed" in it either.

What I had to say had to deal with the spirit. What I had to say had to do with the fruitlessness of such a venture because it is built on things that will fail.

I am not here to say anyone is wrong for doing one thing or another thing. I am here to say that God intended us to build our hopes on stronger foundations.

I have had dental work done. I was in a lot of pain and was happy to have it done. :)

I also understand what you are asking and I see the point you are making. I would see less of an issue with dental work (assuming you are speaking of braces etc)

If this womans breast was on her shoulder then that is one thing. If she feels like she just isn't the size she wants to be then that's another... but this whole discussion is taking further into her business than I am comfortable being.

Dental work that aligns crooked teeth etc does have its cosmetic advantages and yet it also circumvents trouble down the line as well.

Do you see dental work and surgery such as is being discussed in this thread as being on the same keel?

[Elizabeth]

I think its a personal issue which may have nothing to do with self esteem.

Why not take a little advantage of some modern day conveniences that are not too extreme yet shed a few years? (or a few lines)

I know I will not see it like the rest of ya all, but thats okay.

[Rico]

Society didn't make her feel anything! No one else can force another to feel anything. It's wrong that society has some twisted notion of beauty to which many people feel this need to conform but it's equally wrong to have a need to feel like a "beautiful" person (whatever that's supposed to be). "Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the LORD, she shall be praised" (Proverbs 31:30).

Or she chooses to sin by being conformed to this wicked world instead of being transformed by the renewing of her mind.

Agreed.

Are we even supposed to have satisfaction in who we are as a person? Aren't we supposed to die to self and to deny ourselves?

Not to mention vanity.

But since the action is motivated by the thought process, both would be wrong.

Agreed.

You know, you could save quite a bit of time if you just answered every post with "They are evil and wicked."

[COOPER]

I think its a personal issue which may have nothing to do with self esteem.

Why not take a little advantage of some modern day conveniences that are not too extreme yet shed a few years? (or a few lines)

I know I will not see it like the rest of ya all, but thats okay.
The only thing about doing this is........every one knows you did it.

[COOPER]

Hey Brother Coop...

You will notice that I never said I didn't "believe" in the procedure. Of course, neither did I say that I "believed" in it either.

What I had to say had to deal with the spirit. What I had to say had to do with the fruitlessness of such a venture because it is built on things that will fail.

I am not here to say anyone is wrong for doing one thing or another thing. I am here to say that God intended us to build our hopes on stronger foundations.

I have had dental work done. I was in a lot of pain and was happy to have it done. :)

I also understand what you are asking and I see the point you are making. I would see less of an issue with dental work (assuming you are speaking of braces etc)

If this womans breast was on her shoulder then that is one thing. If she feels like she just isn't the size she wants to be then that's another... but this whole discussion is taking further into her business than I am comfortable being.

Dental work that aligns crooked teeth etc does have its cosmetic advantages and yet it also circumvents trouble down the line as well.

Do you see dental work and surgery such as is being discussed in this thread as being on the same keel?

But what if she did not bloom?? What if she just wants to be.

[Chan]

I think its a personal issue which may have nothing to do with self esteem.

Why not take a little advantage of some modern day conveniences that are not too extreme yet shed a few years? (or a few lines)
Because "Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the LORD, she shall be praised" (Proverbs 31:30 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Proverbs+31%3A30)).

[Michlow]

You know, you could save quite a bit of time if you just answered every post with "They are evil and wicked."

You forgot worldly, and the always mentioned disclaimer "in their hearts" ;)

[Chan]

You know, you could save quite a bit of time if you just answered every post with "They are evil and wicked."Oh, but then someone would just ask me why and I'd have to explain it anyway.

[Elizabeth]

The only thing about doing this is........every one knows you did it.
not true, there is a lot that can be done without surgery these days. Getting a good facial can do wonders--

I dont know if many people realize that our only resource are NOT extremes!

[Chan]

You forgot worldly, and the always mentioned disclaimer "in their hearts" ;)In this particular case it does come down to what's in the heart.

[Elizabeth]

Because "Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the LORD, she shall be praised" (Proverbs 31:30 (http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Proverbs+31%3A30)).

Chan, it is in women to want to look beautiful--

Have you considered the process that Esther went through to prepare for the King.


Anyway I am not taking about surgery, but there are many things a woman can to enhance her appearance.

[Sherri]

Totally up to the individual. To me it's no different than getting braces to fix crooked teeth; getting crossed eyes uncrossed, etc.

[Rico]

Oh, but then someone would just ask me why and I'd have to explain it anyway.

You've said it enough times now that we'd already know why. :)

[Elizabeth]

But if a woman choses to have surgery I still think it is her personal business-

I still think you can have something done and it not be so extreme that it is soo obvious.

[COOPER]

In this particular case it does come down to what's in the heart.

If hubby and wife are fine with it, Git er done!

[Elizabeth]

Totally up to the individual. To me it's no different than getting braces to fix crooked teeth; getting crossed eyes uncrossed, etc.

Thank You!

[COOPER]

But if a woman choses to have surgery I still think it is her personal business-

I still think you can have something done and it not be so extreme that it is soo obvious.

My wife said there is a girl she works with that looks like Olive Oil, very skinny.

She came to work one day very top heavy. :uhoh

[Margies3]

Totally up to the individual. To me it's no different than getting braces to fix crooked teeth; getting crossed eyes uncrossed, etc.

Thank you, Sherri. I was just sitting here trying to figure out how to word what I wanted to say and you took the words right out of my mouth. If surgery to enhance or fix a fault is wrong, then so would braces be also. For that matter, if we are supposed to live with what God gave us, then by the same way of thinking, dieting for the sake of losing excess weight TO LOOK BETTER would also be sin. If that was the case, then you would need to examine your motives very carefully before you would even consider starting a diet. It's all such hogwash!! Like GOD would care! PLEASE!!!

[Elizabeth]

My wife said there is a girl she works with that looks like Olive Oil, very skinny.

She came to work one day very top heavy. :uhoh
Thats sad she made it so obvious-

there are so many types of augmentation that can be done today, it's not just limited to this type of surgery.

[Rico]

What if it were the preacher's wife? What then?

[Sarah]

This was brought up in another thread and I realized that I've never heard it addressed.

If a lady in your church asked for your opinion on having surgery to "enhance" a certain area of her body, how would you advise her?

Is it wrong?

Is that something personal that shouldn't concern anyone else?


Note: I'm sure this topic will swing from one side to the other and we need to make sure that we stay on point. :winkgrin


I think it is an entirely personal matter. But like someone said........you will be discussed! lol

[Chan]

Chan, it is in women to want to look beautiful--It doesn't change what the Bible says.

Have you considered the process that Esther went through to prepare for the King.It doesn't make it right and it doesn't change the validity of what Solomon said.


Anyway I am not taking about surgery, but there are many things a woman can to enhance her appearance.But this thread is mainly about surgery. Of course, to go beyond the surgery, we're talking about artificial enhancements and not the kind of natural enhancement that would occur with proper diet, sleep and exercise.

[Elizabeth]

Thank you, Sherri. I was just sitting here trying to figure out how to word what I wanted to say and you took the words right out of my mouth. If surgery to enhance or fix a fault is wrong, then so would braces be also. For that matter, if we are supposed to live with what God gave us, then by the same way of thinking, dieting for the sake of losing excess weight TO LOOK BETTER would also be sin. If that was the case, then you would need to examine your motives very carefully before you would even consider starting a diet. It's all such hogwash!! Like GOD would care! PLEASE!!!

Exactly, I needed plastic surgery when I was a teen after being in a head on collision car accident, I guess to some that would have been a sin but it was needed.

[rgcraig]

:slaphappy I know.......will it ben-fit the k-dom :killinme

Well, it could benefit the kingdom if it helps her find a husband and increase the numbers in SS. :slaphappy

[RandyWayne]

Moderation is always the key! And doubly true for enhancement surgery!
My wife is a doctor and thus we are surrounded by other doctors, nurses and the medical community in general, so have seen my share of before and after pictures.
Going up more then 1/2 to 1 cup size is NOT recommended and yet most plastic surgeons will try to talk the woman into more. The result often looks like someone cut the business end off of two plumbers helpers and inserted them under the skin.

[tamor]

You know, you could save quite a bit of time if you just answered every post with "They are evil and wicked."

:toofunny :toofunny

[Chan]

Totally up to the individual. To me it's no different than getting braces to fix crooked teeth; getting crossed eyes uncrossed, etc.Well, I think it is different. I don't know of very many men who immediately notice a woman's crooked teeth or her crossed eyes (correcting these are not merely "cosmetic" - there are valid health reasons for doing so) but I do know a lot of men who immediately notice a woman's breasts.

[rgcraig]

Moderation is always the key! And doubly true for enhancement surgery!
My wife is a doctor and thus we are surrounded by other doctors, nurses and the medical community in general, so have seen my share of before and after pictures.
Going up more then 1/2 to 1 cup size is NOT recommended and yet most plastic surgeons will try to talk the woman into more. The result often looks like someone cut the business end off of two plumbers helpers and inserted them under the skin. :slaphappy I'm dying:slaphappy

[Chan]

Exactly, I needed plastic surgery when I was a teen after being in a head on collision car accident, I guess to some that would have been a sin but it was needed.There's a HUGE difference between repairing damage caused in an accident and getting an "enhancement" just because someone stupidly thinks she needs them to measure up to some twisted societal notion of "beauty."

[Elizabeth]

Well, it could benefit the kingdom if it helps her find a husband and increase the numbers in SS. :slaphappy
Thats the line I was thinking!

How many women who need a little help wont do it because they were told it was sinful. But their "godly" appreance doesnt attact any "godly" men.

[Chan]

Thank you, Sherri. I was just sitting here trying to figure out how to word what I wanted to say and you took the words right out of my mouth. If surgery to enhance or fix a fault is wrong, then so would braces be also. For that matter, if we are supposed to live with what God gave us, then by the same way of thinking, dieting for the sake of losing excess weight TO LOOK BETTER would also be sin. If that was the case, then you would need to examine your motives very carefully before you would even consider starting a diet. It's all such hogwash!! Like GOD would care! PLEASE!!!No one said anything about fixing! Go back and read the original post in this thread! Braces are to repair problems with the teeth or to prevent certain problems from occurring: they're not about cosmetic enhancement. As for excess weight, GOD DID NOT GIVE THAT TO YOU! How dare you try to blame God for someone being overweight!

[Margies3]

What if it were the preacher's wife? What then?

And what if it were? Why would that make a difference? Why should the preacher OR his wife have to be any different than anyone else?

Besides, if it's not sin for everyone else, why would it suddenly become sin because it's the preacher's wife?

[Elizabeth]

There's a HUGE difference between repairing damage caused in an accident and getting an "enhancement" just because someone stupidly thinks she needs them to measure up to some twisted societal notion of "beauty."

I guess it depends on how radical--

What about a deviated septum? What a braces on the teeth? Or how about bleaching ones teeth or getting veneers?

A good pedicure and manicure would do wonders! So would a good dye job--but lets not go there!

[Rico]

And what if it were? Why would that make a difference? Why should the preacher OR his wife have to be any different than anyone else?

Besides, if it's not sin for everyone else, why would it suddenly become sin because it's the preacher's wife?

Sister, you know good and well that if a pastor's wife were to go out and get a breast enhancement it would affect the church, most likely in a negative way.

[RandyWayne]

...unless she dealt with breast cancer and wanted to look merely "normal" again.

[Elizabeth]

This was brought up in another thread and I realized that I've never heard it addressed.

If a lady in your church asked for your opinion on having surgery to "enhance" a certain area of her body, how would you advise her?

Is it wrong?

Is that something personal that shouldn't concern anyone else?


Note: I'm sure this topic will swing from one side to the other and we need to make sure that we stay on point. :winkgrin

Renda,

Are we strictly speaking breast augmentation?

I still think its personal, but the person should be aware of the risks--


I think it would be ostentatious of the person to go from an A to say a DD or DDD, I would hope some moderation would be considered.

[Rico]

...unless she dealt with breast cancer and wanted to look merely "normal" again.

It wouldn't be enhancement then. It would be reconstructive.

[Elizabeth]

...unless she dealt with breast cancer and wanted to look merely "normal" again.
Good point-

[Margies3]

Sister, you know good and well that if a pastor's wife were to go out and get a breast enhancement it would affect the church, most likely in a negative way.

Unfortunately, you are probably right, Rico. But it SHOULDN'T. Why, oh why, do we have this twisted thinking that says that God has two sets of requirements of His children - one for pastors and one for saints? If God thinks something is wrong for the pastor, then let's assume He means it's wrong for us as well. And by the same token, if God gives the green light to us, then let's believe He's given the same greenlight to the pastor. Unless someone can show me scripture that says that God wrote a different Bible for the pastor than He did for the saints.

Shame on US for putting ourselves in the position of judge and jury when it comes to every little move that a pastor or his family makes!!!

[Chan]

I guess it depends on how radical--

What about a deviated septum? What a braces on the teeth? Or how about bleaching ones teeth or getting veneers?

A good pedicure and manicure would do wonders! So would a good dye job--but lets not go there!There's nothing wrong with repairing damage (issues like the deviated septum, crooked teeth certainly fall into the category of repair; badly stained teeth might reasonably fall into the category of repair but I think that one depends on one's motivation for getting the bleaching or the veneers).

[Chan]

...unless she dealt with breast cancer and wanted to look merely "normal" again.
Which would fall into the category of repairing damage and not enhancement.

[Rico]

Unfortunately, you are probably right, Rico. But it SHOULDN'T. Why, oh why, do we have this twisted thinking that says that God has two sets of requirements of His children - one for pastors and one for saints? If God thinks something is wrong for the pastor, then let's assume He means it's wrong for us as well. And by the same token, if God gives the green light to us, then let's believe He's given the same greenlight to the pastor. Unless someone can show me scripture that says that God wrote a different Bible for the pastor than He did for the saints.

Shame on US for putting ourselves in the position of judge and jury when it comes to every little move that a pastor or his family makes!!!

Well, that's what happens when one is expected to lead. Everyone is watching. I don't necessarily think it's all that twisted because the Bible says to whom much is given much is required. More is expected from those in leadership.

[RandyWayne]

If surgery (or drugs -and no, there are none yet) existed that I could have taken in my 20's to make me a couple of inches taller, I would have.

But I DID work out regularly.... Because it made me feel better and LOOK better.

[Sandra]

This was brought up in another thread and I realized that I've never heard it addressed.

If a lady in your church asked for your opinion on having surgery to "enhance" a certain area of her body, how would you advise her?

Is it wrong?

Is that something personal that shouldn't concern anyone else?


Note: I'm sure this topic will swing from one side to the other and we need to make sure that we stay on point. :winkgrin

I watched extreme makeover last night, I would love to get a few things done.
Will I do it, probably not. I just like talking about it.:D

[HeavenlyOne]

This was brought up in another thread and I realized that I've never heard it addressed.

If a lady in your church asked for your opinion on having surgery to "enhance" a certain area of her body, how would you advise her?

Is it wrong?

Is that something personal that shouldn't concern anyone else?


Note: I'm sure this topic will swing from one side to the other and we need to make sure that we stay on point. :winkgrin

I think it depends on the reason.

For instance, if a woman doesn't feel like a woman because she wears the same size bra at the age of 32 that she did when she was 11, that might be a reason for enhancement, but for personal reasons, not for attractive ones.

Also, for women who have had one or both removed due to cancer, it's important for her to feel that she's still a woman, and her decision again would be a personal one.

[COOPER]

There's a HUGE difference between repairing damage caused in an accident and getting an "enhancement" just because someone stupidly thinks she needs them to measure up to some twisted societal notion of "beauty."
:spit He said Huge!!!:slaphappy

[Chewy]

Renda, this is such an easy question.

What does the UPC manual say about the matter?


:slaphappy

[rgcraig]

Renda, this is such an easy question.

What does the UPC manual say about the matter?


:slaphappy

:roseglasses

[Steadfast]

Very interesting thread to say the least! Gives new meaning to 'building up your most holy faith'! (Sorry, I couldn't resist!)

On a more serious note, I've recently dealt with a brand new 'issue' as a Pastor due to the same type of thing this thread is dealing with. I'm one of those inhumane Pastors who still stands against the whole makeup thing... but recently prayed someone through that had their makeup TATOOED on!

I didn't even know they did such a thing as that! But, trust me, they do. So now this precious lady comes to me convicted but seemingly stranded.

My advise was, basically, to hold her head high and not let it bother her anymore as she has long ago repented and made peace with God. It's basically little more than a man's tatoo on his arm that was acquired before he came to God.

The only lingering issue that I can forsee is the whole 'finger pointing' that some area Churches may do when they see her eventually being used in Church in areas like the choir / hostess / etc...

[rgcraig]

Very interesting thread to say the least! Gives new meaning to 'building up your most holy faith'! (Sorry, I couldn't resist!)

On a more serious note, I've recently dealt with a brand new 'issue' as a Pastor due to the same type of thing this thread is dealing with. I'm one of those inhumane Pastors who still stands against the whole makeup thing... but recently prayed someone through that had their makeup TATOOED on!

I didn't even know they did such a thing as that! But, trust me, they do. So now this precious lady comes to me convicted but seemingly stranded.

My advise was, basically, to hold her head high and not let it bother her anymore as she has long ago repented and made peace with God. It's basically little more than a man's tatoo on his arm that was acquired before he came to God.

The only lingering issue that I can forsee is the whole 'finger pointing' that some area Churches may do when they see her eventually being used in Church in areas like the choir / hostess / etc...

You must be speaking of tatooed eye liner. Yep, can't reverse that. I think you gave her excellent advice!!!

The sad part is your last paragraph - - if people would just be responsible for their own salvation and quit trying to judge others wouldn't we have a time! You know, the one mind, one accord thing......it'd just be heaven.

[Trouvere]

Do you believe in Dental work?

especially when I have toothache.The fake jake smile no.

[rgcraig]

Well, this thread went flat or is it just drooping?

[HeavenlyOne]

Well, this thread went flat or is it just drooping?

I resemble that statement!!

:killinme

[RandyWayne]

Well, this thread went flat or is it just drooping?

In about 70 years maybe.....

[Trouvere]

...unless she dealt with breast cancer and wanted to look merely "normal" again.

Great answer.I agree.In that instance it would be understandable.I have seen
some horrible mastectomies but I have to say thank God they were able to
save the lives of the woman involved.Its recommended for alot of women
that if they have one do both as it usually comes back.

[Trouvere]

You must be speaking of tatooed eye liner. Yep, can't reverse that. I think you gave her excellent advice!!!

The sad part is your last paragraph - - if people would just be responsible for their own salvation and quit trying to judge others wouldn't we have a time! You know, the one mind, one accord thing......it'd just be heaven.

Renda I have a friend that had it done.They do eyes,lips,liner and blush.

[MrsMcD]

This was brought up in another thread and I realized that I've never heard it addressed.

If a lady in your church asked for your opinion on having surgery to "enhance" a certain area of her body, how would you advise her?

Is it wrong?

Is that something personal that shouldn't concern anyone else?


Note: I'm sure this topic will swing from one side to the other and we need to make sure that we stay on point. :winkgrin

I don't think it is wrong. I have friends that have had reductions and enhancements and they look great. I think it is a personal choice. I don't think someone should try to look like Pamela Anderson or Dolly Pardon. That's too much emphasis but if someone wants to enhance to better proportion their body, I say go for it.

[Ron]

I was considering Plastic Surgery!:hmmm























Then I looked in the mirror and said, "what for?":hypercoffee

[Sherri]

Renda I have a friend that had it done.They do eyes,lips,liner and blush.
I know people who have had permanent lipstick done. Personally I would be afraid that I wouldn't want the same color all the time. Who knows what you'll want when you're 70????

[Sherri]

For Rico's sake, let me say that a pastor's wife is NO DIFFERENT than anyone else. She should not be held to a different set of rights and wrongs. We have in the past had a pastor's wife on staff who had "enhancement". It was not drastic, but very becoming and she looks alot better in her clothes. Did anyone care? Not in the least! Most people never even realized that she had it done.

I think the whole thing comes down to this.....does a woman have this surgery to appear sexy and sensual to men other than her husband? Or does she do it for self esteem and so her clothes look better on her?

[Rico]

For Rico's sake, let me say that a pastor's wife is NO DIFFERENT than anyone else. She should not be held to a different set of rights and wrongs. We have in the past had a pastor's wife on staff who had "enhancement". It was not drastic, but very becoming and she looks alot better in her clothes. Did anyone care? Not in the least! Most people never even realized that she had it done.

I think the whole thing comes down to this.....does a woman have this surgery to appear sexy and sensual to men other than her husband? Or does she do it for self esteem and so her clothes look better on her?

Sister, are you trying to say you don't see how a pastor's wife getting this type of enhancement done can negatively affect their church?

[Felicity]

Wish I could have some enhancement done. Not much - just a little tweak here and there. :)

[Sherri]

Sister, are you trying to say you don't see how a pastor's wife getting this type of enhancement done can negatively affect their church?
Good grief, I hope not! It didn't affect ours when the staff wife had it done several years ago.

[Rico]

Good grief, I hope not! It didn't affect ours when the staff wife had it done several years ago.

You said most of the people didn't even know she had it done. That could be why. What if it were you and everyone knew about it? What then? **edited**

[rgcraig]

Sister, are you trying to say you don't see how a pastor's wife getting this type of enhancement done can negatively affect their church?

If they did it correctly it wouldn't be like she was Twiggy one Sunday and Pamela Anderson the next one. :slaphappy

[rgcraig]

Rico,

Might be best you just stay off this thread. I edited your question.

[Rico]

Rico,

Might be best you just stay off this thread. I edited your question.

Why would you edit it? It's ok to talk about women's breasts but not men's parts that they can get enhanced? I used the proper terminology. That is a double standard, Sister.

I think all this talk of getting enhancements is a dangerours thing to allow in churches. If you don't feel good about yourself then go pray. Jesus is supposed to be our comforter NOT a plastic surgeon. I can understand in cases of cancer or even a car accident, but to feel better about yourself? Sorry, that smacks of vanity.

[HeavenlyOne]

Why would you edit it? It's ok to talk about women's breasts but not men's parts that they can get enhanced? I used the proper terminology. That is a double standard, Sister.

I think all this talk of getting enhancements is a dangerours thing to allow in churches. If you don't feel good about yourself then go pray. Jesus is supposed to be our comforter NOT a plastic surgeon. I can understand in cases of cancer or even a car accident, but to feel better about yourself? Sorry, that smacks of vanity.


Then don't get braces for those kids, and nevermind dentures either!

Vanity, vanity, it's all vanity!!!

[rgcraig]

Why would you edit it? It's ok to talk about women's breasts but not men's parts that they can get enhanced? I used the proper terminology. That is a double standard, Sister.

I think all this talk of getting enhancements is a dangerours thing to allow in churches. If you don't feel good about yourself then go pray. Jesus is supposed to be our comforter NOT a plastic surgeon. I can understand in cases of cancer or even a car accident, but to feel better about yourself? Sorry, that smacks of vanity.

Yes, it is double for women.

[RevDWW]

For the most part it would seem this issue is about beauty and how that beauty is defined by our culture.

As my Pappy says "Beauty is only skin deep, but ugly is to the bone!"

Real beauty should emanate from the heart and spirit rather than the flesh and blood. I have known beautiful people that would never make the cover of a fashion magazine, but their name is written in the Lambs book of life.

What do you think real beauty consists of?

[rgcraig]

For the most part it would seem this issue is about beauty and how that beauty is defined by our culture.

As my Pappy says "Beauty is only skin deep, but ugly is to the bone!"

Real beauty should emanate from the heart and spirit rather than the flesh and blood. I have known beautiful people that would never make the cover of a fashion magazine, but their name is written in the Lambs book of life.

What do you think real beauty consists of?Let's just put it this way - I've heard a lot of "she has such a great personality".....lol!

So, I'm a solid advocate of its what's on the inside that counts, the attitude, the fun factor as MOW would say, the love for God and the servant spirit.

[HeavenlyOne]

And let's face it...men don't look to see what's on the inside that counts. I don't care how full of the HG they are.....LOL!

[Theresa]

And let's face it...men don't look to see what's on the inside that counts. I don't care how full of the HG they are.....LOL!

and women, no matter how attracted they are to a guy with a good, steady job, who loves God...etc

will overlook a mouth full of nasty rotten teeth or a variety of other outward features...(ones that can be helped)

[Sherri]

You said most of the people didn't even know she had it done. That could be why. What if it were you and everyone knew about it? What then? **edited**
Whatever I would decide to do, my congregation would be totally supportive. I would love to get a nose job; I seriously don't think one soul here would care!!

[rgcraig]

Whatever I would decide to do, my congregation would be totally supportive. I would love to get a nose job; I seriously don't think one soul here would care!! A very key word here!

[Sherri]

A very key word here!
:killinme:killinme:killinme

[HeavenlyOne]

and women, no matter how attracted they are to a guy with a good, steady job, who loves God...etc

will overlook a mouth full of nasty rotten teeth or a variety of other outward features...(ones that can be helped)

Hahaha.....and the man can be fat as can be and it doesn't matter. He can be bald and that's ok. Hairy? Not a problem...not hairy? Not a problem.

[Theresa]

Hahaha.....and the man can be fat as can be and it doesn't matter. He can be bald and that's ok. Hairy? Not a problem...not hairy? Not a problem.

for some women, he couldnt be fat, bald or hairy...they are as outward driven as men...

beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and we cant put all the outward beholding off on the men..

cause a man with nasty teeth, the only second glance he'll get is a "you've got to be kidding" look...you know what I mean?

there isnt an excuse for poor hygiene. blech

[HeavenlyOne]

for some women, he couldnt be fat, bald or hairy...they are as outward driven as men...

beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and we cant put all the outward beholding off on the men..

cause a man with nasty teeth, the only second glance he'll get is a "you've got to be kidding" look...you know what I mean?

there isnt an excuse for poor hygiene. blech

I agree there are some women who DO care, but the numbers of men who DON'T care are about the same.

[Theresa]

I agree there are some women who DO care, but the numbers of men who DON'T care are about the same.

I do think that there are more men who DO care...than women

and even with that said, there are more women who also care, when it comes right down to it, than we think LOL

[philjones]

Thats the line I was thinking!

How many women who need a little help wont do it because they were told it was sinful. But their "godly" appreance doesnt attact any "godly" men.

Why not just go ahead and contract a few women of ill repute to work your bus ministry and then you wouldn't have to worry about attracting men... BTW... any man who comes to church because of the pastor's wife's enhancements is likely not godly other than being a servant of the god of this world. If he is attracted by the enhancements he will only stay if he gets to enjoy a personal relationship with what brought him there!

You folks amaze me some times.

[HeavenlyOne]

Why not just go ahead and contract a few women of ill repute to work your bus ministry and then you wouldn't have to worry about attracting men... BTW... any man who comes to church because of the pastor's wife's enhancements is likely not godly other than being a servant of the god of this world. If he is attracted by the enhancements he will only stay if he gets to enjoy a personal relationship with what brought him there!

You folks amaze me some times.

I think you read waaaaaaay too much into her post that she never said nor implied.

For you men posting on this subject, you can't possibly understand, so I'm puzzled why you are even commenting.

[ManOfWord]

Just for you women on this thread who think us men don't understand why you may feel the need for "enhancements"......you have my 100% support.....go for it!!!!

[Chan]

I think the whole thing comes down to this.....does a woman have this surgery to appear sexy and sensual to men other than her husband? Or does she do it for self esteem and so her clothes look better on her?The first is vanity (even if she's only doing it for her husband) and the second is the sin of pride.

[Chan]

Why would you edit it? It's ok to talk about women's breasts but not men's parts that they can get enhanced? I used the proper terminology. That is a double standard, Sister.Some things should not be discussed in polite company.

I think all this talk of getting enhancements is a dangerours thing to allow in churches. If you don't feel good about yourself then go pray. Jesus is supposed to be our comforter NOT a plastic surgeon. Be careful there, you're starting to say things on which you and I agree.I can understand in cases of cancer or even a car accident, but to feel better about yourself? Sorry, that smacks of vanity.If not vanity then certainly the sin of pride.

[philjones]

Just for you women on this thread who think us men don't understand why you may feel the need for "enhancements"......you have my 100% support.....go for it!!!!

Now there is a guy that understands!:slaphappy:killinme

[Elizabeth]

Why not just go ahead and contract a few women of ill repute to work your bus ministry and then you wouldn't have to worry about attracting men... BTW... any man who comes to church because of the pastor's wife's enhancements is likely not godly other than being a servant of the god of this world. If he is attracted by the enhancements he will only stay if he gets to enjoy a personal relationship with what brought him there!

You folks amaze me some times.

:grumpy

You forgot to add: and take that and that :boxing

Sorry my mind really wasn't on breast augmentation, it was on my very single "godly" friends. Unmarried not attractive to any men folks, but very godly and that all that matters because they are so very beautiful to God.:D

[philjones]

I think you read waaaaaaay too much into her post that she never said nor implied.

For you men posting on this subject, you can't possibly understand, so I'm puzzled why you are even commenting.

So, let me see, HO... as an evangelist, I am insecure because of my gynecomastia... so, I choose to have cosmetic surgery... I don't just get a reduction... I get flat pecs "installed" a la the Terminator and simultaneously I choose to have my biceps enhanced to a nice 17", I have a tummy tuck and love handle reduction... then I start wearing tapered white shirts that are fitted top and bottom cuff to cuff and I ALWAYS remove my jacket as I am preaching so you can see the spread of the lats and bulge of the biceps and the narrow waist and OF COURSE my spectacular pecs. I am sure this is all good and godly and in the interest of the kingdom. RIGHT!

All of this of course, as was implied in the original post to which this response was made, to enhance the female and possibly gay male attendance at my revivals.

No, I am quite sure I know nothing about the subject... I am, after all, just an ignorant man. :)

[tamor]

Whatever I would decide to do, my congregation would be totally supportive. I would love to get a nose job; I seriously don't think one soul here would care!!

WHY? What's wrong with your nose? I would support ya if that's what you want, but your nose is not bad. :roseglasses

[Felicity]

So, let me see, HO... as an evangelist, I am insecure because of my gynecomastia... so, I choose to have cosmetic surgery... I don't just get a reduction... I get flat pecs "installed" a la the Terminator and simultaneously I choose to have my biceps enhanced to a nice 17", I have a tummy tuck and love handle reduction... then I start wearing tapered white shirts that are fitted top and bottom cuff to cuff and I ALWAYS remove my jacket as I am preaching so you can see the spread of the lats and bulge of the biceps and the narrow waist and OF COURSE my spectacular pecs. Sounds good to me.

[philjones]

:grumpy

You forgot to add: and take that and that :boxing

Sorry my mind really wasn't on breast augmentation, it was on my very single "godly" friends. Unmarried not attractive to any men folks, but very godly and that all that matters because they are so very beautiful to God.:D

The post you responded to was DEFINITELY along those exact lines. But perhaps we should hire models to do the ushering or perhaps make it a ministry to transform your dumpy but godly friends into women beautiful to both God and man.

I am not attacking cosmetic enhancements but rather the idea that we might consider enhancements as a potential evangelistic tool. :)

[Felicity]

Seriously though people can get too caught up in all this IMO.

[Esther]

If nothing else I guess I will get my education. ;)

[philjones]

Sounds good to me.

I feared just such a response!:slaphappy:killinme

Way to go Felicity!:killinme

[philjones]

BTW... where does the self-esteem improvement stop and vanity begin?

I suppose that LINE is subjective too. :) and it certainly isn't a STRAIGHTLINE!

[Elizabeth]

The post you responded to was DEFINITELY along those exact lines. But perhaps we should hire models to do the ushering or perhaps make it a ministry to transform your dumpy but godly friends into women beautiful to both God and man.

I am not attacking cosmetic enhancements but rather the idea that we might consider enhancements as a potential evangelistic tool. :)


:smack ouch! ok....even if its not what I meant...

Hey leave my most beautiful, ultimately pretty to God friends out of this--

But shouldn't their love, devotion and prayer life be enough for them to be noticed by a fine upstanding godly man???? hummmmm???:choir

[philjones]

:smack ouch! ok....even if its not what I meant...

Hey leave my most beautiful, ultimately pretty to God friends out of this--

But shouldn't their love, devotion and prayer life be enough for them to be noticed by a fine upstanding godly man???? hummmmm???:choir

Absolutely! That is why I am saying we don't need cosmetic surgery to be both Godly and attractive! I am not sure that you and i have an argument here.:slaphappy

[Elizabeth]

Absolutely! That is why I am saying we don't need cosmetic surgery to be both Godly and attractive! I am not sure that you and i have an argument here.:slaphappy

My friends aren't really dumpy, but totally sold out to God, but even in a "holiness" church they passed over for the more visibly pretty ones.

Its just sad to me :sad

fyi I rather jumped in this thread, without really catching what it was really about.:doh

[Felicity]

I don't think I could be happy with somebody I wasn't physically attracted to. I mean that's not the main thing but a very important part of the mix.

However, I've heard that in the case of arranged marriages where brides and grooms don't get the chance to choose for themselves, that many of those marriages are very successful. People learn to like and love one another over the course of time and appreciation is based on more than physical appearance and the marriage is built on some fairly important things that are important and contribute to the success of the marriage.

On the other hand, there are stunningly beautiful women and very virile, handsome and physically appealing men whose marriages last only a short time and they've had many partners - both married and not - probably cause the marriage isn't built on what's truly important but more on the physical.

So there ya go.

I think personality is very important and for most of us women knowing that the man we're joining our lives to for the rest of our lives can take care of us and be successful at what they do (however you want to define success) is pretty important too.

I could never be seriously interested in someone who I didn't feel could offer me some security and I say that having married a preacher. Oh boy! LOL. :)

[philjones]

I don't think I could be happy with somebody I wasn't physically attracted to. I mean that's not the main thing but a very important part of the mix.

However, I've heard that in the case of arranged marriages where brides and grooms don't get the chance to choose for themselves, that many of those marriages are very successful. People learn to like and love one another over the course of time and appreciation is based on more than physical appearance and the marriage is built on some fairly important things.

On the other hand, there are stunningly beautiful women and very virile, handsome and physically appealing men whose marriages last a short time and they've had many partners - both married and not.

So there ya go.

I think personality is very important and for most of us women knowing that the man we're joining our lives to for the rest of our lives can take care of us and be successful at what they do (however you want to define success) is pretty important to.

I could never be seriously interested in someone who I didn't feel could offer me some security and I say that having married a preacher. Oh boy! LOL. :)

Is it possible that your definition of security when you married a preacher was somewhat different then than it is now... Speaking terms of being secure spiritually versus physically and financially...?

[Straightline]

BTW... where does the self-esteem improvement stop and vanity begin?

I suppose that LINE is subjective too. :) and it certainly isn't a STRAIGHTLINE!

Careful now!

Not even your stateline
is a
Straightline

[rgcraig]

The first is vanity (even if she's only doing it for her husband) and the second is the sin of pride.

Oh, whatever.

[rgcraig]

So, let me see, HO... as an evangelist, I am insecure because of my gynecomastia... so, I choose to have cosmetic surgery... I don't just get a reduction... I get flat pecs "installed" a la the Terminator and simultaneously I choose to have my biceps enhanced to a nice 17", I have a tummy tuck and love handle reduction... then I start wearing tapered white shirts that are fitted top and bottom cuff to cuff and I ALWAYS remove my jacket as I am preaching so you can see the spread of the lats and bulge of the biceps and the narrow waist and OF COURSE my spectacular pecs. I am sure this is all good and godly and in the interest of the kingdom. RIGHT!

All of this of course, as was implied in the original post to which this response was made, to enhance the female and possibly gay male attendance at my revivals.

No, I am quite sure I know nothing about the subject... I am, after all, just an ignorant man. :)
LOL....my guess is your in the amen corner with MOW!

[rgcraig]

:smack ouch! ok....even if its not what I meant...

Hey leave my most beautiful, ultimately pretty to God friends out of this--

But shouldn't their love, devotion and prayer life be enough for them to be noticed by a fine upstanding godly man???? hummmmm???:choir

If they don't look like the evangelist that Phil described - - - :slaphappy

[Theresa]

Oh, whatever.

ROFL!

my thoughts exactly

[Pressing-On]

My friends aren't really dumpy, but totally sold out to God, but even in a "holiness" church they passed over for the more visibly pretty ones.

Its just sad to me :sad

fyi I rather jumped in this thread, without really catching what it was really about.:doh
Well, I'm glad they are (passed over), Jeanie! I'm glad they dont' hook up with a man that can't see the beauty of who they really are. If they are faithful, God will give them the desires of their heart.

Most of the pressure on women trying to be godly is the men that keep looking for a model - whennnnnnn - they are getting bald and pot-bellied. Lord, like they really deserve anything like that. :killinme

[Trouvere]

Preach it P.O. its a redneck personal ad thing.Bubba seeking Barbie.Send picture of boat.

[ManOfWord]

So, let me see, HO... as an evangelist, I am insecure because of my gynecomastia... so, I choose to have cosmetic surgery... I don't just get a reduction... I get flat pecs "installed" a la the Terminator and simultaneously I choose to have my biceps enhanced to a nice 17", I have a tummy tuck and love handle reduction... then I start wearing tapered white shirts that are fitted top and bottom cuff to cuff and I ALWAYS remove my jacket as I am preaching so you can see the spread of the lats and bulge of the biceps and the narrow waist and OF COURSE my spectacular pecs. I am sure this is all good and godly and in the interest of the kingdom. RIGHT!



This is ridiculous........if someone did this.............they would look just like me and and I was assured that my "look" was patented! :D

[Elizabeth]

Well, I'm glad they are (passed over), Jeanie! I'm glad they dont' hook up with a man that can't see the beauty of who they really are. If they are faithful, God will give them the desires of their heart.

Most of the pressure on women trying to be godly is the men that keep looking for a model - whennnnnnn - they are getting bald and pot-bellied. Lord, like they really deserve anything like that. :killinme

I went to my 25th high school reunion and many of the guys looked liked this!

I was like whoa! do I look that old????

[Sherri]

I went to my 25th high school reunion and many of the guys looked liked this!

I was like whoa! do I look that old????
Jeanie, you are GORGEOUS. Anyone who can wear their hair slicked back like you do and still look that good......well, I for one am jealous!

[Elizabeth]

If they don't look like the evangelist that Phil described - - - :slaphappy
Oh the Arnold Schwarzenegger with a bible, I guess opposites could attract?

[Pressing-On]

Preach it P.O. its a redneck personal ad thing.Bubba seeking Barbie.Send picture of boat.
This is funny on the woman side though. I was at the grocery store and this overweight woman was probably in her 60's. She had on a thin white top and white shorts and guess what she was wearing in her hair - a tiara! Lots of blue eye shadow.

I was wondering if she had been drinking and left the house after watching, "All my Children".

:killinme:killinme


And, yes, - Bubba looking for Barbie - like even!!!!

[Elizabeth]

Jeanie, you are GORGEOUS. Anyone who can wear their hair slicked back like you do and still look that good......well, I for one am jealous!

Sherri you are so sweet! Thank you!

It was just weird to see those young guys I went to school with look so....40ish!!! ha ha!

some still looked athletic.

[Pressing-On]

I went to my 25th high school reunion and many of the guys looked liked this!

I was like whoa! do I look that old????
:killinme:killinme

So funny. Last week one of my sister's called and told me that one of my other sisters (I have six) ran into this guy that I dated in High School! She said he asked about me and wanted to get in touch.

Man, I forgot to ask how he looked these days. :killinme

[revrandy]

My 2 Cents...

If a woman wants to enhance herself and asked me as Pastor how I felt about it.... I would send her to my wife for an answer...

I, as Pastor, should have NO feelings about her enhancement issues...

imo...

[Sherri]

Sherri you are so sweet! Thank you!

It was just weird to see those young guys I went to school with look so....40ish!!! ha ha!

some still looked athletic.
Isn't it amazing how everyone else has aged?????:thumbsup

[Sherri]

My 2 Cents...

If a woman wants to enhance herself and asked me as Pastor how I felt about it.... I would send her to my wife for an answer...

I, as Pastor, should have NO feelings about her enhancement issues...

imo...
Good answer. I cannot imagine any woman in our church asking Eddie about something like this. She might let me know she was having it done (we HAVE had several in the past), but she would never tell Eddie.

[Elizabeth]

My 2 Cents...

If a woman wants to enhance herself and asked me as Pastor how I felt about it.... I would send her to my wife for an answer...

I, as Pastor, should have NO feelings about her enhancement issues...

imo...
great advice Randy!

[Elizabeth]

Isn't it amazing how everyone else has aged?????:thumbsup

I should post a picture! yes I had to look at the year book first before talking to anyone!

[RandyWayne]

If a specific church were to condemn this procedure they would also have to publicly condemn the wonder bra to keep any sort of consistency.
(But then again, very little effort is ever expended on maintaining consistency....)

And those who end up turning every head in the room after having it done are those who unfortunately listen to the doctors advice (they always seem to do it!) and go WAY to big.

[Elizabeth]

:killinme:killinme

So funny. Last week one of my sister's called and told me that one of my other sisters (I have six) ran into this guy that I dated in High School! She said he asked about me and wanted to get in touch.

Man, I forgot to ask how he looked these days. :killinme

I got an message in myspace from a gal trying to get a hold of my sister--I did NOT recognize the person AT ALL-- she said is that you??

I said yes its me, then she said "I used to come over your house and watch MTV (this is when it first came out) with your sister"--I was like "you did??"

[StillStanding]

Isn't it amazing how everyone else has aged?????:thumbsup
Yes!!! At the JCM reunion I thought to myself, "I can't believe that I went to school with all these old folks!" :slaphappy

[revrandy]

If a specific church were to condemn this procedure they would also have to publicly condemn the wonder bra to keep any sort of consistency.
(But then again, very little effort is ever expended on maintaining consistency....)


They could change the name to "Miracle Bra"... make it more rightous & correct!! hehehe....










:slaphappy

Sorry couldn't resist..... bad!!! Bad!!!! I know...

[Sherri]

Yes!!! At the JCM reunion I thought to myself, "I can't believe that I went to school with all these old folks!" :slaphappy
P-Man, I told Renda I got an envelope at church today and the return address said "JCM Reunion". It was a flyer with an October date about a reunion. I got so excited and then realized it was for Jackson Central Merry, a local high school and they wanted us to post it on the Bulletin Board!!!

[StillStanding]

P-Man, I told Renda I got an envelope at church today and the return address said "JCM Reunion". It was a flyer with an October date about a reunion. I got so excited and then realized it was for Jackson Central Merry, a local high school and they wanted us to post it on the Bulletin Board!!!

We might try another reunion in a few years, but with SOMEONE ELSE in charge! :D

[HeavenlyOne]

So, let me see, HO... as an evangelist, I am insecure because of my gynecomastia... so, I choose to have cosmetic surgery... I don't just get a reduction... I get flat pecs "installed" a la the Terminator and simultaneously I choose to have my biceps enhanced to a nice 17", I have a tummy tuck and love handle reduction... then I start wearing tapered white shirts that are fitted top and bottom cuff to cuff and I ALWAYS remove my jacket as I am preaching so you can see the spread of the lats and bulge of the biceps and the narrow waist and OF COURSE my spectacular pecs. I am sure this is all good and godly and in the interest of the kingdom. RIGHT!

All of this of course, as was implied in the original post to which this response was made, to enhance the female and possibly gay male attendance at my revivals.

No, I am quite sure I know nothing about the subject... I am, after all, just an ignorant man. :)

The part you don't understand and cannot possibly understand is the woman's POV in regard to her body. That's the entire point I was making. So yes, you (respectfully) are an ignorant man in that aspect. ;)

[RandyWayne]

The part you don't understand and cannot possibly understand is the woman's POV in regard to her body. That's the entire point I was making. So yes, you (respectfully) are an ignorant man in that aspect.

While being a man myself, hopefully I am not overtly ignorant. The thing that I know many are thinking, but most are afraid to say, is that while a MANs "shortcomings" are (thankfully) hidden, a womans assets, or lack thereof are on display for the world to see -yes, even through most cloths. This is why I will not judge someone who gets this done, and neither should anyone else.

Again, I have a theory that the ultra-conservative among us would condemn a woman who gets enhanced, but most would probably be ok with someone who gets a reduction. I see it as just a basic Puritan view on sexuality.... the less the better. Of ANY kind.

[ILG]

I would probably begin to look at her issues of how she thinks about herself in general and wonder if there was a man pushing her to do this or if she was wanting to do it herself. Depending on the answer....I would try and help her work on her self esteem issues and give her some information on risks of surgery.

[ILG]

While being a man myself, hopefully I am not overtly ignorant. The thing that I know many are thinking, but most are afraid to say, is that while a MANs "shortcomings" are (thankfully) hidden, a womans assets, or lack thereof are on display for the world to see -yes, even through most cloths. This is why I will not judge someone who gets this done, and neither should anyone else.

Again, I have a theory that the ultra-conservative among us would condemn a woman who gets enhanced, but most would probably be ok with someone who gets a reduction. I see it as just a basic Puritan view on sexuality.... the less the better. Of ANY kind.

Reduction is generally for health reasons, enhancement is not.

[RandyWayne]

Reduction is generally for health reasons, enhancement is not.

Not always.

[ILG]

Not always.

What do you mean?

[rgcraig]

What do you mean?

Even though there are health reasons, back and neck problems - maybe she just wants to fit in her tops better, be a normal C instead of a 38 Long or look good for her man in nice sleepwear.

I'm sure there are just as many reason for women to go the reduction route as there are to enhance.

[Subdued]

Even though there are health reasons, back and neck problems - maybe she just wants to fit in her tops better, be a normal C instead of a 38 Long or look good for her man in nice sleepwear.

I'm sure there are just as many reason for women to go the reduction route as there are to enhance.

:slaphappy:killinme

[HeavenlyOne]

Even though there are health reasons, back and neck problems - maybe she just wants to fit in her tops better, be a normal C instead of a 38 Long or look good for her man in nice sleepwear.

I'm sure there are just as many reason for women to go the reduction route as there are to enhance.


ROFL!

With my weight loss, I can totally relate!! LOL!

[secretplace]

"Be content with such things as ye have" must fit here. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.lol

[ILG]

Even though there are health reasons, back and neck problems - maybe she just wants to fit in her tops better, be a normal C instead of a 38 Long or look good for her man in nice sleepwear.

I'm sure there are just as many reason for women to go the reduction route as there are to enhance.

I think there are more legitmate reasons for reduction, which is why I think it is not as controversial.

[Pressing-On]

Even though there are health reasons, back and neck problems - maybe she just wants to fit in her tops better, be a normal C instead of a 38 Long or look good for her man in nice sleepwear.

I'm sure there are just as many reason for women to go the reduction route as there are to enhance.

:killinme:killinme:killinme

[Monkeyman]

Ok this thread keeps getting grosser and grossier!!! he he

[Pressing-On]

Ok this thread keeps getting grosser and grossier!!! he he

:killinme:killinme

[Nahum]

I see things haven't changed much around here.:slaphappy

Double-barreled sling shots are biblical though. Well at least sling shots are. I'm sure David would have been glad to have a sling shot the size of the whoppers mentioned here.

[rgcraig]

I see things haven't changed much around here.:slaphappy

Double-barreled sling shots are biblical though. Well at least sling shots are. I'm sure David would have been glad to have a sling shot the size of the whoppers mentioned here.

Pipe down there PP!

[Nahum]

Pipe down there PP!

Sorry, are my comments unwelcome?

Out of line?
Over the top?
Beyond the pale?








Good!:winkgrin:slaphappy:Nhl_check







I'M BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[H2H]

Ok this thread keeps getting grosser and grossier!!! he he

Haven't read the whole thread... have we discussed male breast reduction yet??

[rgcraig]

Sorry, are my comments unwelcome?

Out of line?
Over the top?
Beyond the pale?








Good!:winkgrin:slaphappy:Nhl_check







I'M BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I thought my piped down PP would be the warmest welcome you could receive!!!!

[Sherri]

Haven't read the whole thread... have we discussed male breast reduction yet??
No, but I know someone who had that done too.

[Nahum]

Haven't read the whole thread... have we discussed male breast reduction yet??

ROTFL!:igotit

[rgcraig]

No, but I know someone who had that done too.

I've seen a few that could benefit from it - that or wear a bra!

[philjones]

Haven't read the whole thread... have we discussed male breast reduction yet??

Actually, I did mention it in my post about the evangelist... I just went one step further and hand the cosmetic correction of the flat and defined pecs. I of course listed many other enhancements available to men. One I forgot to mention is actually one of the most common. A large percentage of male body builders have calf implants to eliminate the high and tight knot of a calf. Some say that even the Governator had this done.:slaphappy:slaphappy

[HeavenlyOne]

I know someone personally who had gynecomastia and had surgery done. He looks much better! I'm all for men not having breasts!