Saints Losing Faith in Preachers - Stop Attending Church, Why?

[Sandra]

I live in Baton Rouge ,La the home of Jimmy Swaggart. I have talked to several people in the last few months who went to his church before his fall.
They say they have never darkened the door of any church since this happened.
I have never put preaches on a level as Jesus Christ, Its sad some do.
While I respect them, I know they are human.
Trust me I don't blame them for not going to JS church, I just say go to church and serve the Lord. My pastor could fail tomorrow , it would not shake my faith.
I am in a relationship with Jesus Christ, these people had a relationship with religion.

[Sherri]

I live in Baton Rouge ,La the home of Jimmy Swaggart. I have talked to several people in the last few months who went to his church before his fall.
They say they have never darkened the door of any church since this happened.
I have never put preaches on a level as Jesus Christ, Its sad some do.
While I respect them, I know they are human.
Trust me I don't blame them for not going to JS church, I just say go to church and serve the Lord. My pastor could fail tomorrow , it would not shake my faith.
I am in a relationship with Jesus Christ, these people had a relationship with religion.
Our daughter almost married his grandson, who is now the heir apparent at JSM. I'm SOOOOO glad that didn't happen!

[H2H]

Ahemmm... is this a good thread to discuss a system that deifies the role of a single leader of the church??

[CC1]

I live in Baton Rouge ,La the home of Jimmy Swaggart. I have talked to several people in the last few months who went to his church before his fall.
They say they have never darkened the door of any church since this happened.
I have never put preaches on a level as Jesus Christ, Its sad some do.
While I respect them, I know they are human.
Trust me I don't blame them for not going to JS church, I just say go to church and serve the Lord. My pastor could fail tomorrow , it would not shake my faith.
I am in a relationship with Jesus Christ, these people had a relationship with religion.

That is a sad situation. It seems that the pastors blessed with the most natural gifts (personality, oratory,etc) are the ones that affect the most people when they fall.

People seem to be drawn and kept by their personalities more than the gospel they preach and then when they fall those peoples faith is shattered.

We have the same approach to ministry. I love and respect ministers but don't worship them nor see them as infallible. My confidence is in Christ.

[Steve Epley]

I NEVER lost faith in Jimmy.:nah

[Nahum]

I NEVER lost faith in Jimmy.:nah

You kill me! :killinme:killinme:killinme

[Monkeyman]

I NEVER lost faith in Jimmy.:nahOk to our resident historian...did you ever cross paths, work together, against each other? Sheesh, you knew every one else, he he!

[The Dean]

I NEVER lost faith in Jimmy.:nah

I wanted to say that SO bad. :slaphappy

[Steve Epley]

Ok to our resident historian...did you ever cross paths, work together, against each other? Sheesh, you knew every one else, he he!

My father was preaching a tent revival in Winsboro, La. in the early 50's Jimmy's dad helped sponser the meeting and Jimmy played the piano and sang some. Will that pass????? Also Dad & Nancy Harmon went to A crusade in Miami before the problem and they all went out to eat. Dad invited me but I didn't go the grass was growing and didn't want to miss it.:winkgrin

[Sherri]

I met Jimmy & Frances at my daughter's graduation; NOT impressed with him at all.

[Steve Epley]

I met Jimmy & Frances at my daughter's graduation; NOT impressed with him at all.

Dad said SHE was one mean woman???????????????

[Monkeyman]

My father was preaching a tent revival in Winsboro, La. in the early 50's Jimmy's dad helped sponser the meeting and Jimmy played the piano and sang some. Will that pass????? Also Dad & Nancy Harmon went to A crusade in Miami before the problem and they all went out to eat. Dad invited me but I didn't go the grass was growing and didn't want to miss it.:winkgrinhe he, yes it does. as many people as you have met, you should be 200 now!!! That last comment concerning the grass was downright Hi larious!:slaphappy

[Neck]

I live in Baton Rouge ,La the home of Jimmy Swaggart. I have talked to several people in the last few months who went to his church before his fall.
They say they have never darkened the door of any church since this happened.
I have never put preaches on a level as Jesus Christ, Its sad some do.
While I respect them, I know they are human.
Trust me I don't blame them for not going to JS church, I just say go to church and serve the Lord. My pastor could fail tomorrow , it would not shake my faith.
I am in a relationship with Jesus Christ, these people had a relationship with religion.


When he cried on TV he lost most of his folks. It just appeared to be I got caught tears...

[drummerboy_dave]

I live in Baton Rouge ,La the home of Jimmy Swaggart. I have talked to several people in the last few months who went to his church before his fall.
They say they have never darkened the door of any church since this happened.
I have never put preaches on a level as Jesus Christ, Its sad some do.
While I respect them, I know they are human.
Trust me I don't blame them for not going to JS church, I just say go to church and serve the Lord. My pastor could fail tomorrow , it would not shake my faith.
I am in a relationship with Jesus Christ, these people had a relationship with religion.I agree with you 99%. The 1% is that I haven't spoken to anyone from his church. :slaphappy I'm slap happy, but I agree with your observation.

Anyway, good post and I hope this thread takes the proper course and makes some folks think. I've often considered that many a oneness person loves his religion more than Jesus.

[Sherri]

Dad said SHE was one mean woman???????????????
Let me just say that she runs the entire show. And it is a SHOW!! Ashley said that at church, when Jimmy walks in, the lights all shine down on him and everyone claps like he's a star. She thought it was ridiculous. Of course, she's too young to even know who he was in his heyday.

In person, he comes across very flirty. Just one of those guys who tries to make every female feel like she's the most important person in the world. Those guys scare me.

[Steve Epley]

Let me just say that she runs the entire show. And it is a SHOW!! Ashley said that at church, when Jimmy walks in, the lights all shine down on him and everyone claps like he's a star. She thought it was ridiculous. Of course, she's too young to even know who he was in his heyday.

In person, he comes across very flirty. Just one of those guys who tries to make every female feel like she's the most important person in the world. Those guys scare me.

I hear he might have a 'little' problem in that area.:winkgrin

[Neck]

Let me just say that she runs the entire show. And it is a SHOW!! Ashley said that at church, when Jimmy walks in, the lights all shine down on him and everyone claps like he's a star. She thought it was ridiculous. Of course, she's too young to even know who he was in his heyday.

In person, he comes across very flirty. Just one of those guys who tries to make every female feel like she's the most important person in the world. Those guys scare me.

Mark Hanby would always enter the service in Ft. Worth when we were there in the 1970's. My Dad was the dean of theology at his bible college.

He would enter the service in his white suit Bible raised and the crowd would cheer like their favorite ball player was coming to bat....

[Sherri]

I hear he might have a 'little' problem in that area.:winkgrin
I want to go on record to say that the grandson (and the other grandkids) are wonderful young people. But they are definitely owned by the ministry, and unless they devote their lives to it and to Papaw, they are pretty much cut off. I loved this young man, but I knew that he was going to go back to take over the church, and the thought of that was too much to handle. In a different setting, he would have been great.

[SDG]

My father was preaching a tent revival in Winsboro, La. in the early 50's Jimmy's dad helped sponser the meeting and Jimmy played the piano and sang some. Will that pass????? Also Dad & Nancy Harmon went to A crusade in Miami before the problem and they all went out to eat. Dad invited me but I didn't go the grass was growing and didn't want to miss it.:winkgrin

Your dad was Oneness, Elder? and shared the platform w/ a Trinitarian musician ???... say it ain't so... I'm sure you didn't sing along ...

[Hoovie]

Mark Hanby would always enter the service in Ft. Worth when we were there in the 1970's. My Dad was the dean of theology at his bible college.

He would enter the service in his white suit Bible raised and the crowd would cheer like their favorite ball player was coming to bat....

How did you feel? I think I would literally puke if I was present.

[Steve Epley]

Your dad was Oneness, Elder? and shared the platform w/ a Trinitarian musician ???... say it ain't so... I'm sure you didn't sing along ...

My dad was never Oneness he was TWINITY learn that from the Sowderites.
He preached for both. I asked him how he preached for the Oneness guys he said they didn't ask and he didn't tell.:winkgrin The Goodman family was traveling with dad when he was at that meeting.

[Neck]

How did you feel? I think I would literally puke if I was present.

I was 11 years old. He did pray with me when I did receive the HG. I could tell he craved the attention.

The church so loved when my dad was asked to speak.

But Mark Hanby put restrictions on my dad doing alter calls.

He did not like the chuch members commenting on my dad's sermons.

As for Hanby, I enjoyed his preaching.

I always got the sense that many of his sermons were those of older ministers.

Remember the men before him were not recorded on tape.

So everyone preahing Mark Hanby sermons are most likely preaching retread sermons he heard when he was younger....

[Malvaro]

I just wanted to say that I still have faith in preachers....
and love both my previous pastor and my current one....
both are outstanding Christian men that I greatly admire!!!

:D

[drummerboy_dave]

I just wanted to say that I still have faith in preachers....
and love both my previous pastor and my current one....
both are outstanding Christian men that I greatly admire!!!

:DSo do I! But, I believe (though I'm not Sandra) the point of the thread is that too many people elevate the preacher and the politics and the religion over the Saviour.

[Malvaro]

So do I! But, I believe (though I'm not Sandra) the point of the thread is that too many people elevate the preacher and the politics and the religion over the Saviour.

I agree.... I've never done that, so it's tough for me to relate to that....

[Elizabeth]

So do I! But, I believe (though I'm not Sandra) the point of the thread is that too many people elevate the preacher and the politics and the religion over the Saviour.

Great point, and as far as I have read, I dont see that there has been any major harm done by talking about it.

[Old Paths]

I agree.... I've never done that, so it's tough for me to relate to that....

My thoughts exactly.

[Praxeas]

Ok to our resident historian...did you ever cross paths, work together, against each other? Sheesh, you knew every one else, he he!
I thought that was Dan the undertaker that knew everyone

[Praxeas]

Let me just say that she runs the entire show. And it is a SHOW!! Ashley said that at church, when Jimmy walks in, the lights all shine down on him and everyone claps like he's a star. She thought it was ridiculous. Of course, she's too young to even know who he was in his heyday.

In person, he comes across very flirty. Just one of those guys who tries to make every female feel like she's the most important person in the world. Those guys scare me.
Your a dork...there are we comfy? :-)
And just to make sure I don't scare off all the other women, you're all really just a bunch of money lovin ,gold diggin...oh never mind. Wow. I feel I must have made a lot of female friends tonight :slaphappy

Anyways, isn't this how most TV preachers are? I mean with the drama and lights etc etc?
Oh, least there was any misunderstanding, I really was joking. I don't think you are a dork... or a money lovin, gold diggin....oh never mind :-)

[Malvaro]

Your a dork...there are we comfy? :-)
And just to make sure I don't scare off all the other women, you're all really just a bunch of money lovin ,gold diggin...oh never mind. Wow. I feel I must have made a lot of female friends tonight :slaphappy

Anyways, isn't this how most TV preachers are? I mean with the drama and lights etc etc?

not everyone on TBN is flashy.... just look at errrrrr.... nvm :D

[Praxeas]

not everyone on TBN is flashy.... just look at errrrrr.... nvm :D
I think the only ones that don't really seem flashy are those of a white southern baptist persuasion like Stanley, but I've never been to a church service there

[Praxeas]

BTW I wasn't talking merely TBN...and JS I don't think is even on TBN

[Malvaro]

I think the only ones that don't really seem flashy are those of a white southern baptist persuasion like Stanley, but I've never been to a church service there

ohhhhh, this thread is talking about preachers, isn't it??? :D

[Malvaro]

I think the only ones that don't really seem flashy are those of a white southern baptist persuasion like Stanley, but I've never been to a church service there

are you saying that the musicians on TBN are flashy too??? aren't you are being a bit hard on the TBN guests???

[Malvaro]

If TV passes in the UPC, it'll be heading TBN's direction anyhow....

just like someone on AFF has already said.... its just a platform of ministry....

it wouldn't be considered "flashy" then.... :D

[Steadfast]

I've seen a lot of preachers go bad... and more Saints than preachers by far. However, after 28 years of living this life I can tell you that I value the faithful among the Church and the genuine among the ministry more than I ever have in my life.

Do men get messed up by preachers with problems? Sure. It's just a shame they don't appreciate the good ones even more after seeing the few bad apples.

[jwharv]

I live in Baton Rouge ,La the home of Jimmy Swaggart. I have talked to several people in the last few months who went to his church before his fall.
They say they have never darkened the door of any church since this happened.
I have never put preaches on a level as Jesus Christ, Its sad some do.
While I respect them, I know they are human.
Trust me I don't blame them for not going to JS church, I just say go to church and serve the Lord. My pastor could fail tomorrow , it would not shake my faith.
I am in a relationship with Jesus Christ, these people had a relationship with religion.

I have an Aunt and Cousin who to this day believe JS was setup and never did anything wrong. My cousin went as far as to say the "confession" was forced on him by deceitful members of his congregation.

I remember when we were remodeling a church where I use to go, we were tearing out the old platform and a guy stopped by asking for some of the wood. He wanted it to make cross necklaces out of it because JS had preached on that very platform years earlier when it was an Assembly of God church. This was after his second or third confession..........

[LadyChocolate]

I've seen a lot of preachers go bad... and more Saints than preachers by far. However, after 28 years of living this life I can tell you that I value the faithful among the Church and the genuine among the ministry more than I ever have in my life.

Do men get messed up by preachers with problems? Sure. It's just a shame they don't appreciate the good ones even more after seeing the few bad apples.

I do agree! Just to share a lil here.... I was brought up upc and then we were independent for many years. I got a bad taste in my mouth and heard how the upc was the enemy because of this or that.... the sad part is that I got caught up with that line of thinking. But my family and I went thru a whole lotta hurt and have scars from friends "in the ministry". They seemed to have "more truth" if I can put it that way, than the "upc"... But when it all came down to it, it was a upc pastor and wife who showed us what "real christians" are to be like. They didn't try to put us into their cookie cutter. They were real friends who haven't torn us down. We had people that we were close to turn their backs on us because one man talking about us.... And all these people are in the ministry... Not one would ask us what was going on. No, they slam us from the pulpit... even at campmeetings and such... We had no one to talk to because if we did, it would go against "ministerial ethics". We held our peace and let God fight our battles. But I never lost faith in God and I understood that preachers are real men too! But when we met this wonderful couple, we were blessed. Yep, these "upc" people that were "loose" had more Christ like attributes that the self righteous men that were supposed to be our friends..... I lost faith in men a long time ago....BUT I never lost faith in God... Nor in real men of God... Whether UPC, Independent, ALJC, ACI, AMF and any other initials you wanna throw in!

[Trouvere]

I have an Aunt and Cousin who to this day believe JS was setup and never did anything wrong. My cousin went as far as to say the "confession" was forced on him by deceitful members of his congregation.

I remember when we were remodeling a church where I use to go, we were tearing out the old platform and a guy stopped by asking for some of the wood. He wanted it to make cross necklaces out of it because JS had preached on that very platform years earlier when it was an Assembly of God church. This was after his second or third confession..........

yeah that tv report of him with the call girl.That was sure a lie.:slaphappy

[rgcraig]

I believe the whole point of this thread is to point out that you can't just show up at church to follow a man, you have to have a relationship with Jesus Christ and serve him.

If you have a solid relationship with Jesus Christ then you are more prepared to handle life and included in life is situations like JS. Those saints were there for the wrong reason or they would still be in church today.

[Sheltiedad]

And an Apostolic Oneness preacher is just as likely to do something wrong as the others...

[MrsMcD]

And an Apostolic Oneness preacher is just as likely to do something wrong as the others...

True. Anyone can fail and fall. That's why it is important that we put our trust in Christ, not man. Men will let us down but Christ never will. Yet, there are some really good men that I believe are pure and holy and they have no intention of letting us down.

[warrior]

This is an interesting thread. Jimmy is far from the only one with these issues. I have seen several preachers who put themselves on the level with God. Their members seem to assist them with that a great deal. After my experience with my former pastor, I learned so much about who GOD really is. Pastors are mere mortals with no super power and strength high about the members of the congregation. Many want to make you believe that, but it isn't true. If you pray and dedicate your life to God, he will bless you with the things of the spirit.

Some pastors feel like they deserve special treatment, gifts, money and other things.

I just want to say that any pastor that lives in a human body isn't above reproach and is capable of falling.

I admonish all of the saints to do all that they do unto God, and you won't be disappointed when self appointed gods fall off of their man made throne.

[OP_Carl]

The devil takes special delight in scattering the sheep by taking down the shepherd.

It's unfortunate that so many people behave so sheepishly these days, in these kinds of circumstances. One dramatic thing goes wrong and they say "Baaa!" and throw in the towel.

Our American culture and government schools are engineering todays youth to be more sheep-like than ever.

But I still encourage people to not be sheep, but to be sheepdogs.

Be a strong Christian. Develop your own walk. Help the shepherd, but be cunning enough to avoid the craggy rocks and pitfalls without him holding your paw. Help the sheep reach their destination. Defend the sheep. Defend the shepherd. Help the shepherd resist the advances of the devouring lion. Turn your back on sheep that you observe eating mutton stew. (gossiping)

[Ronzo]

Help the shepherd resist the advances of the devouring lion.
Sorry. The enemy is NOT a lion. I don't believe we need to give him that place of distinction.

JESUS is the Lion.

[mizpeh]

The devil takes special delight in scattering the sheep by taking down the shepherd.

It's unfortunate that so many people behave so sheepishly these days, in these kinds of circumstances. One dramatic thing goes wrong and they say "Baaa!" and throw in the towel.

Our American culture and government schools are engineering todays youth to be more sheep-like than ever.

But I still encourage people to not be sheep, but to be sheepdogs.

Be a strong Christian. Develop your own walk. Help the shepherd, but be cunning enough to avoid the craggy rocks and pitfalls without him holding your paw. Help the sheep reach their destination. Defend the sheep. Defend the shepherd. Help the shepherd resist the advances of the devouring lion. Turn your back on sheep that you observe eating mutton stew. (gossiping)

You're right. We should pray for all saints which includes pastors as well. We all have faults and instead of crucifying one another we should pray one for another.

[Ferd]

And an Apostolic Oneness preacher is just as likely to do something wrong as the others...

I believe Mark Hanby, mentioned in this thread fits your point...

[DEAK]

Preachers are just sheep too. I believe that pastors need pastors.

The moment someone doesn't need someone to speak into their life is a scary place to be. Maturing in God doesn't outgrow our need to have a shepherd, IMO. We were not created to be islands unto ourselves, we were created to sharpen each other - spur each other on.

[Falla39]

You're right. We should pray for all saints which includes pastors as well. We all have faults and instead of crucifying one another we should pray one for another.

This is a profound statement and if followed will yield

hugh dividends in souls!! It might be our own or our family.

Why put or take down one soul to save another. Why

not strive for every soul. Why not seek to destroy the

WORK of the enemy but help save the souls.

Jesus showed the value of one when the good Shepherd

left the many to go out and save that one lost sheep.

As I have mentioned several times on other threads, I

am the oldest sister (I have one older brother, but not

much older) of ten siblings. I will tell you I would do any-

thing in my power to help any of them. If I knew two of

them were fighting against each other, there would be

no pleasure in taking sides with one against the other.

My desire would be to see them reconciled to one another.

Be reconciled to God and each other.

It would be safe to say that all eleven of us do not agree

on every thing. We are all adults! The one thing that we all

agree on. That is we will love each other. LOVE is a powerful

thing! God is LOVE. Love covers a multitude of sin, the Bible

states. Without LOVE there can be no healing, no hope, no

reconciliaton. (ICor.,chapter 13 explains it well.)

The elder John is his first epistle, chaper 4, verses 20 says

if a man says he loves God and hates his brother, he is a

liar. For if he doesn't love his brother who he has seen,

how can he love God who he has NOT seen. Impossible! God

IS LOVE! If we don't have LOVE, we don't have GOD!

Love constrains us to do things we could not do otherwise.

We can do things we could not do otherwise because of the

"love of Christ shed abroad in our hearts by the HOLY GHOST".

Blessings,

Falla39

[Bro-Larry]

I never lost faith in Jimbo either, Bro Epley, 'cause I never put my faith there. lololol Your reply was golden.

[Old Paths]

Sorry. The enemy is NOT a lion. I don't believe we need to give him that place of distinction.

JESUS is the Lion.

And the devil is a counterfeit lion.

1 Peter 5:8

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
KJV

[ILG]

It doesn't make much sense to quit on God because a preacher failed. It makes me wonder what people's "faith" is based on.

[Sandra]

Its sad because of a certain poster that this thread title had to be changed!

[MrsMcD]

Its sad because of a certain poster that this thread title had to be changed!

Sad but not surprising.

[Nahum]

Its sad because of a certain poster that this thread title had to be changed!

Sad but not surprising.

Which poster?

[Lost]

Yah, pretty sad indeed. Some people's kids. Just no respect.

[Lost]

Which poster?

Personally, I've lost all respect for that poster.

[Nahum]

Personally, I've lost all respect for that poster.


THOU ART THE MAN!











I like you.:slaphappy

[Ronzo]

And the devil is a counterfeit lion.

1 Peter 5:8

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
KJV
"as"... like you said, counterfeit.
He's really a worm. He slides on his belly and eats dirt.

He's nothing.

[Ronzo]

Personally, I've lost all respect for that poster.
You're lost anyway so your opinion doesn't matter. :igotit

[Sandra]

Personally, I've lost all respect for that poster.

Me too....!!

[Sandra]

Which poster?
I am assumming its you, you are easily offended and quit the forum if preachers are mentioned in a negative way.
Preachers are human, they are not JESUS CHRIST. They make mistakes.

[Felicity]

I believe the whole point of this thread is to point out that you can't just show up at church to follow a man, you have to have a relationship with Jesus Christ and serve him.

If you have a solid relationship with Jesus Christ then you are more prepared to handle life and included in life is situations like JS. Those saints were there for the wrong reason or they would still be in church today.Good post!

[Nahum]

I am assumming its you, you are easily offended and quit the forum if preachers are mentioned in a negative way.
Preachers are human, they are not JESUS CHRIST. They make mistakes.

The love coming through this screen is so warm and beautiful! :slaphappy

I did not complain Sandra. I just chalked it up to your normally cheerful disposition.

[Nahum]

You're lost anyway so your opinion doesn't matter. :igotit


:igotit

What a great day on AFF!

Isn't God good?

[Sandra]

The love coming through this screen is so warm and beautiful! :slaphappy

I did not complain Sandra. I just chalked it up to your normally cheerful disposition.


I don't think you complained, I was just assuming ADMIN made the change with you in mind. JMO

[Sandra]

:igotit

What a great day on AFF!

Isn't God good?

God is Good all the time.:choir:choir

[Nahum]

I don't think you complained, I was just assuming ADMIN made the change with you in mind. JMO

Are you psychic? I mean I knew you were talented and all, but my goodness!

[Sandra]

Are you psychic? I mean I knew you were talented and all, but my goodness!

Just remembering how sensitive you are about threads about preachers, thats all.

[jwharv]

yeah that tv report of him with the call girl.That was sure a lie.:slaphappy


Yeah, I never said he was smart..........................:nah:nah

[Nahum]

Just remembering how sensitive you are about threads about preachers, thats all.

Yes I am. I hate it when people bring up my sinful tendencies.

Anyhoo, I am enjoying our little chat. So how is your tour going? How's church? How's the family?

[chaotic_resolve]

The saying "One bad apple spoils the whole barrel/bunch" comes to mind here.

That said, there are several very good men of God that I know who are Pastors. They take the ministry seriously, knowing that time spent in the pulpit is less than part of what the ministry is to be. They spend time on their messages in prayer and study. They love their people and sincerely care for each one. They're not dictators and they're not push-overs. They preach the Word and have a passion for souls.

You can find these men in their office, many times on their knees in prayer. Or in the sanctuary, pacing between the pews; visiting the ones of saints who are in need of prayer. They study throughout the days, diligently preparing their messages, contacting guests, giving Bible Studies.

Most times their only fault is spending too much time in the ministry and not spending enough time with family.

They are true stewards of the church finances, and frequently sacrifice themselves in order to help the ministries of the church.

And yet, with all that, indeed many times these great men are overlooked because of a shameful few.

[Nahum]

The saying "One bad apple spoils the whole barrel/bunch" comes to mind here.

That said, there are several very good men of God that I know who are Pastors. They take the ministry seriously, knowing that time spent in the pulpit is less than part of what the ministry is to be. They spend time on their messages in prayer and study. They love their people and sincerely care for each one. They're not dictators and they're not push-overs. They preach the Word and have a passion for souls.

You can find these men in their office, many times on their knees in prayer. Or in the sanctuary, pacing between the pews; visiting the ones of saints who are in need of prayer. They study throughout the days, diligently preparing their messages, contacting guests, giving Bible Studies.

Most times their only fault is spending too much time in the ministry and not spending enough time with family.

They are true stewards of the church finances, and frequently sacrifice themselves in order to help the ministries of the church.

And yet, with all that, indeed many times these great men are overlooked because of a shameful few.

Very good post, and I agree completely.

[The Dean]

Preachers are just sheep too. I believe that pastors need pastors.

The moment someone doesn't need someone to speak into their life is a scary place to be. Maturing in God doesn't outgrow our need to have a shepherd, IMO. We were not created to be islands unto ourselves, we were created to sharpen each other - spur each other on.

And THIS is the core of 90% of ministry problems.

No spiritual head = a recipe for disaster.

GREAT POST!

[The Dean]

The saying "One bad apple spoils the whole barrel/bunch" comes to mind here.

That said, there are several very good men of God that I know who are Pastors. They take the ministry seriously, knowing that time spent in the pulpit is less than part of what the ministry is to be. They spend time on their messages in prayer and study. They love their people and sincerely care for each one. They're not dictators and they're not push-overs. They preach the Word and have a passion for souls.

You can find these men in their office, many times on their knees in prayer. Or in the sanctuary, pacing between the pews; visiting the ones of saints who are in need of prayer. They study throughout the days, diligently preparing their messages, contacting guests, giving Bible Studies.

Most times their only fault is spending too much time in the ministry and not spending enough time with family.

They are true stewards of the church finances, and frequently sacrifice themselves in order to help the ministries of the church.

And yet, with all that, indeed many times these great men are overlooked because of a shameful few.

Thank you.

[COOPER]

I have never put preaches on a level as Jesus Christ, Its sad some do.
While I respect them, I know they are human.
My pastor could fail tomorrow , it would not shake my faith.
I am in a relationship with Jesus Christ, these people had a relationship with religion.
Many in the Apostolic faith are more obedient to the Preacher man than God.

[revrandy]

Seems to me that when the Preacher loses Faith folks follow..

I heard Charles Stanley say " We look and say" Look How Far They have Fallen" but the real truth is we never knew how low they were living...

[COOPER]

Jimmy Swaggart bashers!!!

Shame on you people!!!

Jimmy Swaggart, Mickey Gilly and Jerry Lee Lewis. All good at the piano.

[Sandra]

Yes I am. I hate it when people bring up my sinful tendencies.

Anyhoo, I am enjoying our little chat. So how is your tour going? How's church? How's the family?

All is well, staying busy.:choir:choir:choir:choir