View Full Version : On the name, again
Praxeas
07-19-2007, 08:00 PM
Not to long ago we had discussions about the name....and the person.
I was wondering here what people thing is happening
Php 2:9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name,
Php 2:10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
Php 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Are they bowing to a name? Does "at the name of Jesus" mean they are bowing to the one that possesses that name? How will every knee bow "at the name of Jesus"?
The Dean
07-19-2007, 08:03 PM
Not to long ago we had discussions about the name....and the person.
I was wondering here what people thing is happening
Php 2:9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name,
Php 2:10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
Php 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Are they bowing to a name? Does "at the name of Jesus" mean they are bowing to the one that possesses that name? How will every knee bow "at the name of Jesus"?
:igotit
This should be interesting.
mizpeh
07-19-2007, 09:06 PM
Not to long ago we had discussions about the name....and the person.
I was wondering here what people thing is happening
Php 2:9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name,
Php 2:10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
Php 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Are they bowing to a name? Does "at the name of Jesus" mean they are bowing to the one that possesses that name? How will every knee bow "at the name of Jesus"?
That same scripture is taken from the OT and used in Romans as well. We will bow to the one on the throne whose name is Jesus.
Isa 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Ro 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Not to long ago we had discussions about the name....and the person.
I was wondering here what people thing is happening
Php 2:9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name,
Php 2:10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
Php 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Are they bowing to a name? Does "at the name of Jesus" mean they are bowing to the one that possesses that name? How will every knee bow "at the name of Jesus"?
I think this is quoted from Isaiah 45:22-23 where YHWH invites people to look to Him and be saved and goes on to say "...to Me very knee shall bow, every tongue shall take an oath."
In my opinion, we will either bend our knee willingly here and acknowledge Him as Lord or face Him as Judge some day and bow to Him then.
Praxeas
07-19-2007, 09:57 PM
That same scripture is taken from the OT and used in Romans as well. We will bow to the one on the throne whose name is Jesus.
Isa 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Ro 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
If that is the case then bowing to the NAME of Jesus is synonymous with bowing to the LORD Himself?
Michael The Disciple
07-19-2007, 10:13 PM
If that is the case then bowing to the NAME of Jesus is synonymous with bowing to the LORD Himself?
Of course they are one. And the reason Yeshua is God is because in his deity he is YHWH.
Of course they are one. And the reason Yeshua is God is because in his deity he is YHWH.
Yep.
Praxeas
07-19-2007, 10:17 PM
Of course they are one. And the reason Yeshua is God is because in his deity he is YHWH.
I never said Jesus and Yahweh are not one nor did I ask. Im talking about a recent discussion where we talked about the NAME and how calling on the NAME was in fact calling on HIM.
So again, what I said was every knee shall bow to the NAME Of Jesus is the same as bowing to Yahweh Himself. The point is not "Is Jesus Yahweh", but what does "the name" mean here in this context or for that matter other scriptures too
Michael The Disciple
07-19-2007, 10:55 PM
I never said Jesus and Yahweh are not one nor did I ask. Im talking about a recent discussion where we talked about the NAME and how calling on the NAME was in fact calling on HIM.
So again, what I said was every knee shall bow to the NAME Of Jesus is the same as bowing to Yahweh Himself. The point is not "Is Jesus Yahweh", but what does "the name" mean here in this context or for that matter other scriptures too
When I said they are one I meant the name and the person. Then I added I believe the reason Yeshua is God is because he is YHWH. Who would think the name and the person are different? A name identifies a person.
mizpeh
07-19-2007, 11:02 PM
That same scripture is taken from the OT and used in Romans as well. We will bow to the one on the throne whose name is Jesus.
Isa 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Ro 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
After reading these verses again, I noticed in Isa 45: 21-22 the words, there is none beside me (no God, no Savior), and there is none else (no other God). A Trinitarian would assume this to be the second person of the Trinity speaking since Jesus is the only Savior, then this would mean that Jesus is the only God and there is no other God....Jesus himself is eliminating the 1st and 3rd persons of the Trinity.
Praxeas
07-20-2007, 03:13 AM
When I said they are one I meant the name and the person. Then I added I believe the reason Yeshua is God is because he is YHWH. Who would think the name and the person are different? A name identifies a person.
Ah good. Thanks
I never said Jesus and Yahweh are not one nor did I ask. Im talking about a recent discussion where we talked about the NAME and how calling on the NAME was in fact calling on HIM.
So again, what I said was every knee shall bow to the NAME Of Jesus is the same as bowing to Yahweh Himself. The point is not "Is Jesus Yahweh", but what does "the name" mean here in this context or for that matter other scriptures tooI still think that "name" in that context means "authority."
sola gratia
07-20-2007, 08:14 AM
Isa 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Ro 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
After reading these verses again, I noticed in Isa 45: 21-22 the words, there is none beside me (no God, no Savior), and there is none else (no other God). A Trinitarian would assume this to be the second person of the Trinity speaking since Jesus is the only Savior, then this would mean that Jesus is the only God and there is no other God....Jesus himself is eliminating the 1st and 3rd persons of the Trinity.
This is somewhat deductive reasoning. That is not how doctrines or arguments become sound. I think you misinterpret the thought process of trinitarians, who simply allow the Word of God to say what it says. Trinitarians believe in only one God. This God exits as three (insert word here) I say “(insert word here)” because it really doesn’t matter whether it is persons or manifestations, or aspects or whatever… but these “aspects” have individuality ascribed to them scripturally… we note that, and that individuality is on an eternal level… we note that… Yet in the perfection of God, they exist as one, and in this manner speak as the One true God… no contention here with trinitarian doctrine.
What OP’s fail to realize is trinitarianism does not define God in the absoluteness that oneness theology does. It allows room for the “mystery” and lack of understanding man is sure to have. So the doctrine of the trinity is a “concept doctrine”. This means simply that the doctrine of the Trinity is mans best attempt to understand, and explain the infinate God…. One of the biggest downfalls of oneness theology is it’s insistance of absolute understanding and adhereance.
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