View Full Version : Fans lining up for Harry Potter book-what say ye?
ILuvFPC
07-20-2007, 05:07 PM
LONDON - Readers waited in sheets of rain and blazing sun Friday, from Sydney to Seattle, to get their hands on "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows," the seventh and final volume in the schoolboy wizard's saga.
In a now-familiar ritual that is part sales frenzy and part Halloween party, bookstores in Britain were flinging open their doors at a minute past midnight to hordes of would-be warlocks, sorcerers and ordinary, non-magical Muggles. Shops throughout the world were putting the book on sale at the same time, and the United States will follow as midnight strikes Saturday in each time zone, from 12:01 a.m. EDT.
J.K. Rowling, who created the magical lad in "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone" a decade ago, was giving a midnight reading to 500 competition-winning children in the grand Victorian surroundings of London's Natural History Museum.
For many of the keenest fans, the place to be was Waterstone's bookstore on Piccadilly in central London. Dozens of die-hard fans sheltered under umbrellas and plastic ponchos, undeterred by torrential rain. Some passed the time by jotting predictions for the final novel in notebooks, while others encouraged passing drivers to "Honk for Harry."
"This is the biggest Harry Potter party in Europe, so it's worth the wait," said Laura Halinen, 23, from Kuusankoski, Finland.
Rowling's books about the bespectacled orphan with the lightning-bolt scar have sold 325 million copies in 64 languages, and the launch of each new volume has become a Hollywood-scale extravaganza.
Chellie Carr, 17, a fan since the age of 9, said she had pestered her mother to bring her to London from her hometown of Okemos, Mich.
"For all the other books she said, 'No. It's just a book.' But for this one, she said yes," said Carr, who wore a homemade black cloak lined in green for Slytherin, one of four houses at Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry.
"Deathly Hallows" has a print run of 12 million in the United States alone, and Internet retailer Amazon says it has taken 2.2 million orders for the book — 47 percent higher than the pre-order for the sixth volume, "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince." Britain's Royal Mail says it will deliver 600,000 copies on Saturday — one for every 43 households in the country; the U.S. Postal Service said it would deliver 1.8 million copies.
"It is completely crazy," said Deborah Tilley, a spokeswoman for Britain's Waterstone's bookstore chain. "It has never been quite this busy."
From London to Los Angeles, Potter-mania spans the globe. Tel Aviv's Steimatzky bookstore was due to open at 2:01 a.m. local time Saturday (a minute after midnight London time), defying criticism from Orthodox Jewish lawmakers for opening on the Sabbath, when the law requires most businesses in Israel to close.
In India, stores were opening at dawn for special Harry Potter parties. In Bangkok, British ambassador David Fall was to hand over Thailand's first official copy of "Deathly Hallows" to the first customer in line at the Emporium Shopping Complex. The mall was decked out with a re-creation of King's Cross Station's platform 9 3/4, where Harry and friends catch the Hogwarts Express to school.
Phnom Penh's Monument Books — Cambodia's only outlet for the book — expected its allotment of 224 copies to sell out within hours.
Excitement was building in the United States, which gets the book a few hours later than most of the rest of the world. Enthusiasts, some rereading previous Potter volumes, lined up in sunshine outside book stores in Los Angeles and New York.
Portland, Maine, was going all-out with a 12-hour Mugglefest to celebrate the book's launch. Fans wearing robes and carrying wands were riding the Hogwarts Express into a re-creation of Kings Cross station, and an old red-brick warehouse foundry along the city's waterfront was converted into the magical shopping street Diagon Alley, where Hogwarts students buy wands and other magical paraphernalia in Rowling's books.
Security for the launch is tight, with books shipped in sealed pallets and legal contracts binding stores not to sell the book before the midnight release time.
In Ireland, 2,500 people who bought tickets for a launch party at Eason's bookshop on Dublin's O'Connell Street had to sign contracts to be admitted into the store at 11 p.m.
"It's been hard work," said children's book buyer David O'Callaghan, who is dressing up as a werewolf for the occasion. "We've had to sign an embargo, and every customer has signed an embargo, and we send all the signed forms off to an auditor — he's the equivalent of Voldemort — who says things like, 'The signature on account number X214 does not match.' But it's all worth it when you see 2,500 people in O'Connell Street, dressed up and waiting for their book."
Despite the security, spoilers have sprouted on the Internet, including photographed images of what appeared to be all 700-plus pages of the book's U.S. edition. Publishers would not say whether the leaked pages were genuine.
In France, the daily Le Parisien played spoiler, telling readers how the final installment ends, in a small article which it printed upside down. The book's French publishing house, Gallimard Jeunesse, condemned the newspaper's revelation, saying it showed "a total lack of respect for J.K. Rowling" and "disdain for readers."
As many as 1,200 copies were shipped early in the United States by an online retailer, and The New York Times and The (Baltimore) Sun published reviews of the book ahead of the release.
Rowling said she was "staggered" by the embargo-busting reviews and called on fans to preserve the secrecy of the plot.
"In a very short time you will know EVERYTHING," she wrote on her Web site.
The six books have been building to a final confrontation between Harry and his evil nemesis, Lord Voldemort, scourge of the wizarding world. Fans are on tenterhooks because of the prophecy, revealed in Book 5, that one must inevitably kill the other.
Amber de Jager, 19, from Rijswijk in the Netherlands, said she expected "relief, but a lot of tears as well" when she finished reading.
"I think it will have a bittersweet ending," she said.
I hope there aren't any parents on AFF who will be buying Harry Potter books for their children, though I'm sure there will be a few. Whats your opinion of this? Devilish and satanic or innocent fun? Its witchcraft straight from the pits of hell which satan is using to get an "upper hand" on children so he can use them for his kingdom in IMHO!
Ronzo
07-20-2007, 05:08 PM
who cares
Sheltiedad
07-20-2007, 05:20 PM
I'll be buying it for myself, but I won't wait in line for it. I'll walk into the store tomorrow, there will be a big stack and I will pick it up with my other purchases... no waiting in line required...
Hesetmefree238
07-20-2007, 06:57 PM
I don't believe that Christians should have anything to do with Harry Potter
book, movies, etc...., and yes I have a TV, but anything that has to do with
the occult and magical powers we should avoid.
A couple of weeks ago, I was watching a documentary on the occult. one of the points was that there has been an increase in interest in the occult in Brittian as a result of the Harry Potter deal.
they were not making a value judgement on practice of Wicca, or occult. Simply that there was more of it because of HP.
Praxeas
07-20-2007, 07:31 PM
For all the overt witchcraft in these books, the really scary thing is how it starts off light and ends dark. It was a gradual progression where it started off as something children could read (supposedly) but became quite dark and sinister near the end... Had it started off like that perhaps it would not be as popular as it is with parents..
But that is how the enemy works and has always worked, even to this day ALL enemies work this way, but subterfuge and gaining trust....slowly taking over. That has been the best weapon any invasive force has ever used...Think of the Trojan horse...and by the time the real "drama" begins the victim is lulled into a false sense of security.
Praxeas
07-20-2007, 07:36 PM
A couple of weeks ago, I was watching a documentary on the occult. one of the points was that there has been an increase in interest in the occult in Brittian as a result of the Harry Potter deal.
they were not making a value judgement on practice of Wicca, or occult. Simply that there was more of it because of HP.
Does anyone know why the Sorcerers stone was called the Philosophers stone in the UK? Man people are really being lulled into a stupor
She did not invent it for her books
The philosopher's stone, in Latin lapis philosophi substance that supposedly could turn inexpensive , is a legendarymetals such as lead into gold ("chrysopoeia" in the Greek language) and/or create an elixir that would make humans younger, thus delaying death. For a longtime it was the "holy grail" of Western alchemy. In the view of spiritual alchemy, making the philosopher's stone would bring enlightenment upon the maker and conclude the Great Work.[1]
Alchemy itself is mostly an original concept and science practiced in the ancient Near East, Egypt, Greece, and India. However, the concept of ensuring youthful health apparently originated in China, while the concept of transmutating one metal into a more precious one (silver or gold) originated from the theories of the 8th century Arab alchemist, Jabir ibn Hayyan (Latinized as 'Geber'). He analyzed each Aristotelian element in terms of the four basic qualities of hotness, coldness, dryness, and moistness. Fire was both hot and dry, earth cold and dry, water cold and moist, and air hot and moist. He further theorized that every metal was a combination of these four principles, two of them interior and two exterior.
From this premise, it was reasoned that the transmutation of one metal into another could be effected by the rearrangement of its basic qualities. This change would presumably be mediated by a substance, which came to be called al-iksir in Arabic (from which the Western term "elixir" is derived). It is often considered to exist as a dry red powder made from a legendary stone — the "philosopher's stone".[citation needed]
In the 11th century, there was a debate among Muslim chemists on whether the transmutation of substances was possible. A leading opponent was Avicenna, who discredited the theory of transmutation of substances: "Those of the chemical craft know well that no change can be effected in the different species of substances, though they can produce the appearance of such change."[2]
16th-century Swiss alchemist Philippus Paracelsus believed in the existence of alkahest which he believed to be an undiscovered element from which all other elements (earth, fire, water, air) were simply derivative forms. He believed that this element alkahest was, in fact, the philosopher's stone.
Jabir's theory and the concept of knowledge that metals like gold and silver could be hidden in alloys and ores, from which they could be recovered by the appropriate chemical treatment. Jabir himself is believed to be the inventor of aqua regia, a mixture of muriatic (hydrochloric) and nitric acids, one of the few substances that can dissolve gold (and which is still often used for gold recovery and purification).
Gold was particularly valued as a metal that would not rust, tarnish, corrode or otherwise grow corrupt. Since the philosopher's stone would turn a corruptible base metal to incorruptible gold, naturally it would similarly transform human beings from mortal (corruptible) to immortal (incorruptible).
Essentially one of the many theories was that gold was a superior form of metal, and that the philosopher's stone was even purer and superior to gold, so much so that if combined with lesser metals would turn them into superior gold.
A mystical text published in the 17th century called the Mutus Liber proported to be a sort of symbolic instruction manual towards concocting a philosopher's stone. Called the 'wordless book', this was a collection of 15 illustrations.
The Latin American spiritual teacher Samael Aun Weor stated that the Philosopher's Stone is synonymous with the symbol of the stone found in many other spiritual and religious traditions, such as the stone Jacob rests his head upon, the cubic stone of Freemasonry, and the rock upon which Christ lays the foundation of the temple.[3]
“ Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on it shall not be confounded. Unto you therefore which believe it is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, and a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence. - 1 Peter 2: 6-8
” He states that this "stone of stumbling" and "rock of offense" is the creative-sexual energy, which in Kabbalah is Yesod ("foundation") that must be transmuted through sexual alchemy. It is said to be rejected by the "builders," meaning those who seek spiritual edification, because they reject the transmutation of sexual energy, and instead use it to achieve sensual pleasure.[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher's_stone
Pressing-On
07-20-2007, 07:43 PM
England has quite a bit of literature and folklore tied up in their colorful history. It doesn't surprise me that she was able to write these books.
I have only viewed a couple out of the series to see what all the hullabaloo was about. I can see by the characters, costuming, script props, lighting, directing, and just everything - why people are enthralled with them.
I don't care for this type of movie and would never read the books, but I can see why.
It isn't surprising, either, that people are excited to get this last book. It's been played up and played up. I think they did that over the 'Cabbage Patch" dolls. lol
Nonetheless, I do believe that HP does put the idea into a child's mind to be interested in the occult. I think it started with Disney, through the years, in the first place.
pelathais
07-20-2007, 08:32 PM
From a purely business and marketing viewpoint, what Rowling has accomplished should give every entrepreneur a shot in the arm.
"Hey, if she did that with that, would could I do with my idea...?"
Pressing-On
07-20-2007, 08:54 PM
From a purely business and marketing viewpoint, what Rowling has accomplished should give every entrepreneur a shot in the arm.
"Hey, if she did that with that, would could I do with my idea...?"
Exactly!
England has quite a bit of literature and folklore tied up in their colorful history. It doesn't surprise me that she was able to write these books.
I have only viewed a couple out of the series to see what all the hullabaloo was about. I can see by the characters, costuming, script props, lighting, directing, and just everything - why people are enthralled with them.
I don't care for this type of movie and would never read the books, but I can see why.
It isn't surprising, either, that people are excited to get this last book. It's been played up and played up. I think they did that over the 'Cabbage Patch" dolls. lol
Nonetheless, I do believe that HP does put the idea into a child's mind to be interested in the occult. I think it started with Disney, through the years, in the first place.
As is true in many cases the movies are well done but pale in comparison to the books.
I love the Harry Potter series of books. They are some of the best written fiction I have ever read. It is witchcraft in the fantasy sense of the word only.
I understand that for young minds that don't have a Christian value system it can glamorize witchcraft but the same can be said for the Bewitched TV series in the 60's and 70's yet I don't see that show having had a big impact on society regarding witches. Harry Potter witchcraft is more in the vein of The Wizard of Oz type fantasy. I know Pentecostal folks who have loved The Wizard of OZ book and movie for decades and witchcraft (both good and bad witches) are part of that story.
Bottom line is that the Harry Potter series is one of the best written series of book in a very long time.
I will have my copy of this final book tomorrow.
Scott Hutchinson
07-20-2007, 10:00 PM
It's a shame folks aren't interested in reading the Bible like they are interested in reading HP books.
It's a shame folks aren't interested in reading the Bible like they are interested in reading HP books.
No surprise to me.
The HP books are works of fiction brilliantly written to entertain.
The Word of God is inspirational in parts but is not a work of fiction, contains many hard things as well as inspirational, includes geneologies, doctrine, etc.
Apples and oranges.
Your sentiment is correct that it is a shame but it is also a shame people aren't as interested in the bible as they are cars, movies, bowling, dancing, drinking, boating, working to get ahead, etc, etc the list goes on and on.
It is not a HP problem!
Scott Hutchinson
07-20-2007, 10:10 PM
Well people are interested in the supernatural so where are the churches that have the supernatural miracle working power of God in them to draw people to Christ ?
OP_Carl
07-20-2007, 10:10 PM
Harry Potter? That's about witchcraft, isn't it? And witchcraft is as the sin of rebellion, isn't it? And that's like, bad, isn't it?
Okay, I'm being goofy and backwards, here's the real deal:
1 Samuel 15:23
For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
It is unwise for Christians to get in to this stuff. Harry Potter is tame material, but it is opening the door in the minds of millions of young people. The question yet remains, what is coming next for which the door has been opened?
LaGirl
07-20-2007, 10:13 PM
i have NO DESIRE to read or watch anything having to do with harry potter.
Harry Potter? That's about witchcraft, isn't it? And witchcraft is as the sin of rebellion, isn't it? And that's like, bad, isn't it?
Okay, I'm being goofy and backwards, here's the real deal:
1 Samuel 15:23
For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
It is unwise for Christians to get in to this stuff. Haryy Potter is tame material, but it is opening the door in the minds of millions of young people. The question yet remains, what is coming next for which the door has been opened?
I survived watching almost every episode of Bewitched and I Dream of Jeanie so I think I will survive.
Oh, and I have seen the Wizard of OZ many times!
Sherri
07-20-2007, 10:15 PM
I would not want a Harry Potter in my possession, or my family's. Anything that glorifies things that God calls an abomination---I don't want anything to do with. The enemy has used these writings/movies to get kids everywhere enthralled with the dark side, and to make them think that it's acceptable. Everyone is saying that this latest book is alot "darker" than any of the others; it's been a downhill progression from the seemingly innocent first book.
i have NO DESIRE to read or watch anything having to do with harry potter.
The great thing about living in a free country is that you don't have to!
Pressing-On
07-20-2007, 10:16 PM
As is true in many cases the movies are well done but pale in comparison to the books.
I love the Harry Potter series of books. They are some of the best written fiction I have ever read. It is witchcraft in the fantasy sense of the word only.
I understand that for young minds that don't have a Christian value system it can glamorize witchcraft but the same can be said for the Bewitched TV series in the 60's and 70's yet I don't see that show having had a big impact on society regarding witches. Harry Potter witchcraft is more in the vein of The Wizard of Oz type fantasy. I know Pentecostal folks who have loved The Wizard of OZ book and movie for decades and witchcraft (both good and bad witches) are part of that story.
Bottom line is that the Harry Potter series is one of the best written series of book in a very long time.
I will have my copy of this final book tomorrow.
This is pretty much how Dr. Dobson reviewed HP. He said that you have to decide if you child will view it as fantasy or take some elements as serious.
I saw only the first two episodes. I thought they did an excellent job. As with any movie not all details can fit into the grand scheme of filming, as you know. It makes the reading more to look forward to. I don't think I will read them though.
LaGirl
07-20-2007, 10:17 PM
I survived watching almost every episode of Bewitched and I Dream of Jeanie so I think I will survive.
Oh, and I have seen the Wizard of OZ many times!
you know......i have NEVER thought of comparing HP to these shows... :hmmm times are different now days.
Pressing-On
07-20-2007, 10:17 PM
I survived watching almost every episode of Bewitched and I Dream of Jeanie so I think I will survive.
Oh, and I have seen the Wizard of OZ many times!
The Wizard of Oz is almost a stage play. I loved it!
LaGirl
07-20-2007, 10:18 PM
The great thing about living in a free country is that you don't have to!
Thank the LORD!
Sherri
07-20-2007, 10:21 PM
you know......i have NEVER thought of comparing HP to these shows... :hmmm times are different now days.
I grew up watching these shows too, but my parents didn't know any better. I would not ever let my kids watch the reruns on TV, because I realize now that these shows were used to desensitize kids to witchcraft, because they were cute and funny. But now they can have shows like "Charmed" and we accept them as a generation because we grew up thinking Samantha was cute. I still say.....what one generation tolerates, the next generation will celebrate.
By the way, we were Pentecostal through and through, and my parents bought me a Ouija board one year. They honestly did not know about things like that.
LaGirl
07-20-2007, 10:23 PM
I grew up watching these shows too, but my parents didn't know any better. I would not ever let my kids watch the reruns on TV, because I realize now that these shows were used to desensitize kids to witchcraft, because they were cute and funny. But now they can have shows like "Charmed" and we accept them as a generation because we grew up thinking Samantha was cute. I still say.....what one generation tolerates, the next generation will celebrate.
By the way, we were Pentecostal through and through, and my parents bought me a Ouija board one year. They honestly did not know about things like that
:jaw
I grew up watching these shows too, but my parents didn't know any better. I would not ever let my kids watch the reruns on TV, because I realize now that these shows were used to desensitize kids to witchcraft, because they were cute and funny. But now they can have shows like "Charmed" and we accept them as a generation because we grew up thinking Samantha was cute. I still say.....what one generation tolerates, the next generation will celebrate.
By the way, we were Pentecostal through and through, and my parents bought me a Ouija board one year. They honestly did not know about things like that.
:jaw
Hmmm.....maybe there are residual effects to having watched I Dream of Jeanie. To this day I still try to get Mrs. CC1 to dress up in an outfit like Barbara Eden's!!!!!!!!!!!:killinme (I also have a sneaking suspicion that Keith4Him married his wife because of her name)
LaGirl
07-20-2007, 11:18 PM
:slaphappy
Being a bit hyper tonight and knowing I can sleep late tomorrow this thead inspired me to drive the three miles to Wal Mart to see waht HP mania is like at 12:01 am the day a new book comes out.
I had passed by the BooksAMillion bookstore on the way home from church at about 10 pm tonight and the parking lot there was already full.
At Wally World at about 12:05 am there was about 50 people in line with probably 50 having already gone through to get their HP book from a teenage Wal Mart employee who looked remarkably like Harry Potter himself.
What was interesting was the demographic of these avid first purchasers. In short there was no definable demographic. The crowd was pretty evenly split between college age guys and gals (not the nerdy type either - the guys I saw looked like they played football or at least went hunting a lot!), 10-15 year old kids with parents, 30ish yuppie couples, and a few athletic tough looking black dudes probably in their 20's.
I only saw one eccentric pair and it was a mother son combo. He had hair longer than most Pentecostal women stringing down his back and looked like he must still live at home in the basement. Other than him everybody else was remarkably normal. I did not see Elder Epley there.
LadyChocolate
07-20-2007, 11:45 PM
I grew up watching these shows too, but my parents didn't know any better. I would not ever let my kids watch the reruns on TV, because I realize now that these shows were used to desensitize kids to witchcraft, because they were cute and funny. But now they can have shows like "Charmed" and we accept them as a generation because we grew up thinking Samantha was cute. I still say.....what one generation tolerates, the next generation will celebrate.
By the way, we were Pentecostal through and through, and my parents bought me a Ouija board one year. They honestly did not know about things like that.
my cousins had one and my mother warned me she'd used the switch on me like never before if I thought about playing that satanic game!!!! I was skeered of mama cause i knew she meant it! I also knew she completely knew what she was talking about!
CupCake
07-21-2007, 12:12 AM
I hope there aren't any parents on AFF who will be buying Harry Potter books for their children, though I'm sure there will be a few. Whats your opinion of this? Devilish and satanic or innocent fun? Its witchcraft straight from the pits of hell which satan is using to get an "upper hand" on children so he can use them for his kingdom in IMHO!
I think it's wonderful this women set herself free from Welfare system! As for the devil, I think he already in the church having a field day with the power hair thing and the false outward dress as a sign, I could go on~! .....:drama
ILuvFPC
07-21-2007, 12:43 AM
I think it's wonderful this women set herself free from Welfare system! As for the devil, I think he already in the church having a field day with the power hair thing and the false outward dress as a sign, I could go on~! .....:drama
PLEASE! There is no comparison! People having convictions and striving to please God (btw i don't agree w/ the "magical hair" thing and i don't believe its as wide spread as some like to think) and celebrating witchcraft.... apples and oranges... don't think so sis cupcake! :drama :winkgrin
Sheltiedad
07-21-2007, 05:10 AM
It is no more evil than Star Wars... oh, but I guess it is okay if instead of "Witch" you call them something like "Darth Vader" or "Darth Maul". The entire series of movies is about learning how to use supernatural forces either for good or for evil.
I'm with CC1 on this, so don't really have a lot to say. I'm going to go buy the book today, will read it over the weekend and my life will go on without a single negative effect... other than that I will have wasted the $16.97 or whatever on a book that I could have spent at Fuddruckers with all of the Pentecostal people after church on Sunday night.
I would not want a Harry Potter in my possession, or my family's. Anything that glorifies things that God calls an abomination---I don't want anything to do with. The enemy has used these writings/movies to get kids everywhere enthralled with the dark side, and to make them think that it's acceptable. Everyone is saying that this latest book is alot "darker" than any of the others; it's been a downhill progression from the seemingly innocent first book.
I have some very strong opinions on this and have hesitated in answering, realizing the point would be made of what we watched as kids.
To begin with, the author of Potter admitted on a radio program in October 1999 that she studied the occult in order to write more accurately.
I would ask those who defend this book as good reading and entertainment, have you ever visited the HP website?! I haven't in a few years, but this was what I found when I did...
On this site there is a ‘Wizard Store’ where kids can buy t-shirts and other items with the Potter logo, and there is even a place where one can ‘enroll’ in the school Harry attends.
The supplies needed for the school are books on witchcraft, potions, and spells, a guide to transfiguration, a wand, and a cauldron.
Children are then asked what they would like to do if they could cast a spell on themselves...fly or become invisible, among other things.
There is a section on the site, called ‘Divination’. In this area, children can play ‘games’, such as, ‘Tea Leaf Reading’ and ‘Crystal Ball Reading’…and this is supposed to be harmless entertainment.
Just in case someone is thinking that none of this will have an impact on the kiddies, a 9 year old girl was asked about Harry Potter. She said, “I’d like to go to a wizard school, learn magic and put spells on people. I’d make up an ugly spell, and then it’s payback time!” A 10 year old girl said, “I want to be a witch!”, and an 11 year old boy said, “It would be great to be a wizard because you could control situations and things like teachers!”
We had our own experience with my niece, who after reading, told me that white witchcraft was good and there is no such thing as hell. All is well now and she is Spirit filled, but it was a long haul.
Adults...do what you want. I certainly would never try to tell you what you should or shouldn't do, but I would STRONGLY disagree with a child reading Harry Potter.
Barb,
I don't disagree that HP can dispose mushy young minds towards being accepting of witchcraft.
Everything is context. The books are pure fantasy and great fiction. For kids who have Christian parents to put things in context I don't think there is a problem. However for heathern kids or kids whose families are nominally "christian" but are unchurched and unlearned it does at least open them to thinking positively about words like "witchcraft" and the idea of spells, potions, etc. Probably the vast majority of those people also keep HP in context as fantasy and not related to reality but I am sure there are a few it leads astray just as any number of things can do.
Barb,
I don't disagree that HP can dispose mushy young minds towards being accepting of witchcraft.
Everything is context. The books are pure fantasy and great fiction. For kids who have Christian parents to put things in context I don't think there is a problem. However for heathern kids or kids whose families are nominally "christian" but are unchurched and unlearned it does at least open them to thinking positively about words like "witchcraft" and the idea of spells, potions, etc. Probably the vast majority of those people also keep HP in context as fantasy and not related to reality but I am sure there are a few it leads astray just as any number of things can do.
Hon, my brother and SIL are saved and sanctified and still my niece was hooked.
At any rate, I agree about the role parents have in this. Parenting is such a tedious thing...finding the right things to do and not do...say and not say.
My respect to those who do this with diligence and succeed.
Pressing-On
07-21-2007, 09:54 AM
Barb,
I don't disagree that HP can dispose mushy young minds towards being accepting of witchcraft.
Everything is context. The books are pure fantasy and great fiction. For kids who have Christian parents to put things in context I don't think there is a problem. However for heathern kids or kids whose families are nominally "christian" but are unchurched and unlearned it does at least open them to thinking positively about words like "witchcraft" and the idea of spells, potions, etc. Probably the vast majority of those people also keep HP in context as fantasy and not related to reality but I am sure there are a few it leads astray just as any number of things can do.
There are a lot of movies that kids have watched that lead to the mindset the children have now - "revenge". Hardly anything you watch doesn't have an element of getting even as the plot.
I can see why some kids would buy into the thought of attending a school like HP. Casting spells and getting even. Reminds me of Columbine.
Sheltiedad
07-21-2007, 09:57 AM
I remember when there was all the hubbub about violent cartoons. I watched Bugs Bunny at my grandpa's house every weekend growing up and never tried to jump off of a cliff with an umbrella... but I guess that is just me. Even at an early age, I always understood the difference between fantasy and reality... I guess that is why I have such a hard time with religion.
Pressing-On
07-21-2007, 10:05 AM
I remember when there was all the hubbub about violent cartoons. I watched Bugs Bunny at my grandpa's house every weekend growing up and never tried to jump off of a cliff with an umbrella... but I guess that is just me. Even at an early age, I always understood the difference between fantasy and reality... I guess that is why I have such a hard time with religion.
LOL! Brad, you reminded me of when I sweep dirt under the living room carpet. We lived in a huge Victorian home and had those circular braided rugs.
I was watching Popeye and saw him do it. lol
My mother said, "Where did you learn to do that?!!!"
I did dare tell her Popeye. I thought she wouldn't let me watch it anymore!! :killinme
My son will be getting his copy today or tomorrow. We have watched all the movies. I think there is a difference between young kids who don't know the difference between corcery and prayer seeing it and older kids who do know the difference but just appreciate the books/movies for their good vs evil battles. I would not want my kids reading it or viewing it if they were too young to understand this. In my mind, it is no different than Lord of the Rings or Chronicles of Narnia.
Pressing-On
07-21-2007, 10:09 AM
My son will be getting his copy today or tomorrow. We have watched all the movies. I think there is a difference between young kids who don't know the difference between corcery and prayer seeing it and older kids who do know the difference but just appreciate the books/movies for their good vs evil battles. I would not want my kids reading it or viewing it if they were too young to understand this. In my mind, it is no different than Lord of the Rings or Chronicles of Narnia.
I didn't read the books and only watched two of the movies. One thing I noticed and I don't know if it carries this throughout the whole series, but the kids were represented as being fallible and that evil never wins.
Barb,
I don't disagree that HP can dispose mushy young minds towards being accepting of witchcraft.
Everything is context. The books are pure fantasy and great fiction. For kids who have Christian parents to put things in context I don't think there is a problem. However for heathern kids or kids whose families are nominally "christian" but are unchurched and unlearned it does at least open them to thinking positively about words like "witchcraft" and the idea of spells, potions, etc. Probably the vast majority of those people also keep HP in context as fantasy and not related to reality but I am sure there are a few it leads astray just as any number of things can do.
I very much agree with this. It is about context. The question is whether kids are going to start practicing withcraft after readin it or view it as an interesting piece of fiction. We can't shelter our kids from everything. Sometimes that does more harm than good if we have too long of a list of thou shalt nots.
ReformedDave
07-21-2007, 10:13 AM
My son will be getting his copy today or tomorrow. We have watched all the movies. I think there is a difference between young kids who don't know the difference between corcery and prayer seeing it and older kids who do know the difference but just appreciate the books/movies for their good vs evil battles. I would not want my kids reading it or viewing it if they were too young to understand this. In my mind, it is no different than Lord of the Rings or Chronicles of Narnia.
You know that Lewis was a satanist.................:drama
I survived watching almost every episode of Bewitched and I Dream of Jeanie so I think I will survive.
Oh, and I have seen the Wizard of OZ many times!
There are some very clear differences.
first with Bewitched and Jeanie, these were not fantasy shows. They were lite comedy and clearly were not driving a witchcraft world view.
Wizard of Oz while clearly fantasy, the fight between good and evil showed that good wins.
Harry Potter, is both fantasy and never do you see clear victory for the good guys. in fact, as I understand it, there is no real line between good and evil. the view promotes witchcraft as an art and a faith, and blurs the line between good and evil...
Honestly I dont know that there is any more harm in a harry potter book than a Tom Clancy book when it comes to simply reading something. but I do think care is in order when you are considering the audence which is very young kids. Well balanced Parents who know their kids are the key.
ReformedDave
07-21-2007, 10:32 AM
A couple of weeks ago, I was watching a documentary on the occult. one of the points was that there has been an increase in interest in the occult in Brittian as a result of the Harry Potter deal.
they were not making a value judgement on practice of Wicca, or occult. Simply that there was more of it because of HP.
I wonder how they documented that 'fact'.
Felicity
07-21-2007, 01:30 PM
I have a problem with the Harry Potter books and movies too for the same reasons outlined by others.
I was walking by a bookshop one day and there was this huge display set up in the window featuring the occult, witchcraft, magic, sorcery, etc. and right in the middle of that was a display featuring the HP books.
HeavenlyOne
07-21-2007, 02:09 PM
I survived watching almost every episode of Bewitched and I Dream of Jeanie so I think I will survive.
Oh, and I have seen the Wizard of OZ many times!
Good point, and one I was going to make as well.
A friend and I with our children recently saw this at the IMAX theater and it was great. I've seen most of the movies, although I don't read the books.
My daughter is big time into these books, but she loves them for the literary content, not because they are 'full of witchcraft'. Any book she reads is done in that light.
She is 13 and recently bought 16 books with her own money. None of these books are less than 500 pages long. She loves to read and learns a lot from her reading.
My daughter can separate herself from the subject matter and see it for the literary work it truly is. And like CC said, it's no different than Bewitched, I Dream of Jeanie, or Wizard of Oz.
Let's face it.......most of us were brought up on fairy tales that spoke of magical beings and places, potions and spells, fantasy and amazement, yet how many of us dabbled into witchcraft because of all that?
I'm thinking NONE of us......so why do we think it will happen with Harry Potter movies and books?
I used to be against Harry Potter wholeheartedly......until I wanted to educate myself on exactly what I was speaking against. Turns out, everything I was saying about the series (which I'd been told by others without checking it out for myself) wasn't even true.
Some of you speaking against HP clearly don't know what you are talking about. I wonder how many of you read any of the books or watched an entire movie.
HeavenlyOne
07-21-2007, 02:29 PM
I have a problem with the Harry Potter books and movies too for the same reasons outlined by others.
I was walking by a bookshop one day and there was this huge display set up in the window featuring the occult, witchcraft, magic, sorcery, etc. and right in the middle of that was a display featuring the HP books.
I have heard of things being promoted that guide children into witchcraft and such, and those things I'm against, but my daughter doesn't care about that stuff.
Some of the quotes that Barb posted from the site are really no different than kids wanting to be Spiderman or Superman and want to fly and 'catch the bad guys'. My mom got rid of our TV after I kicked my cousin in the head acting like Wonder Woman. Then again, I was 6, and didn't understand the difference in reality and fantasy. Some of these kids being quoted apparently don't either. (And yes, I know this has nothing to do with your post, but I'm on dial up and not dealing well with it....LOL!)
I have heard of things being promoted that guide children into witchcraft and such, and those things I'm against, but my daughter doesn't care about that stuff.
Some of the quotes that Barb posted from the site are really no different than kids wanting to be Spiderman or Superman and want to fly and 'catch the bad guys'. My mom got rid of our TV after I kicked my cousin in the head acting like Wonder Woman. Then again, I was 6, and didn't understand the difference in reality and fantasy. Some of these kids being quoted apparently don't either. (And yes, I know this has nothing to do with your post, but I'm on dial up and not dealing well with it....LOL!)
HO, you REALLY see no difference in Spiderman and teaching children about divination?! There is a big difference in trying to catch the bad guys and wanting to put a hex on someone, IMHO.
I didn't read the books and only watched two of the movies. One thing I noticed and I don't know if it carries this throughout the whole series, but the kids were represented as being fallible and that evil never wins.
Yes, I think that's pretty accurate.
You know that Lewis was a satanist.................:drama
Nope. Never heard that. Apparently you have??
It amazes me that Christians so often attempt to justify or rationalize things that do not please God. When we reason with our natural, carnal mind, it often doesn't lead us to make spiritually sound decisions. Simply put, the carnal mind is hostile towards God and the things of God. If God says it, Christians should be quick to obey it.
Facts:
- Witchcraft and sorcery do not please God. Those who practice this sin are committing an abomination before God. They will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Deut 18:9-14; Gal 5:19-21)
- Witchcraft is clearly a sin (1 Sam 15:23)
- Biblically, witchcraft and sorcery are evil and is are connected with darkness and deceit.
There is no redeeming value in witchcraft. Justifying Harry Potter by saying that watching "Bewitched," is carnal reasoning. When we delight in evil or those who practice what God refers to as an abomination, it becomes sin to us. God does not make a distinction between white and dark magic. He calls it abomination.
Also, it's interesting that biblically, witchcraft is often connected to those who caused their children to "pass through the fire."
God help us...
There are some very clear differences.
first with Bewitched and Jeanie, these were not fantasy shows. They were lite comedy and clearly were not driving a witchcraft world view.
Wizard of Oz while clearly fantasy, the fight between good and evil showed that good wins.
Harry Potter, is both fantasy and never do you see clear victory for the good guys. in fact, as I understand it, there is no real line between good and evil. the view promotes witchcraft as an art and a faith, and blurs the line between good and evil...
Honestly I dont know that there is any more harm in a harry potter book than a Tom Clancy book when it comes to simply reading something. but I do think care is in order when you are considering the audence which is very young kids. Well balanced Parents who know their kids are the key.
I think this is the most important thing.
I brought my son some Peretti books home from the library and after reading some in one, he refused to read them and slept with the light on because, as he said, he knew that demons and what was happening in the books could be real (because it was evil and good in the setting of Christians and demonic forces). I think for some kids...the HP books give kids what they feel is a safe setting in learning about good vs evil because they know it is something they will never partake in in reality or at the very least that they have been taught against it. But the Christian demon stories, that most would think are fine scared my son pretty badly.
Felicity
07-21-2007, 03:01 PM
I have heard of things being promoted that guide children into witchcraft and such, and those things I'm against, but my daughter doesn't care about that stuff.
Some of the quotes that Barb posted from the site are really no different than kids wanting to be Spiderman or Superman and want to fly and 'catch the bad guys'. My mom got rid of our TV after I kicked my cousin in the head acting like Wonder Woman. Then again, I was 6, and didn't understand the difference in reality and fantasy. Some of these kids being quoted apparently don't either. (And yes, I know this has nothing to do with your post, but I'm on dial up and not dealing well with it....LOL!)It's okay. :)
Well everyone has their opinion. I'm not comfortable with the HP books and I think there is a reason why they were placed with all the new age occult/witchcraft stuff. Some of the other books placed in that display were actually dealing with and teaching spells that people can use (for real) and apparently the people/person making that window display felt there was a connection between the HP books and all the other junk.
I watched the first HP movie part of the way through and again just didn't feel comfortable with the way things were being presented and how it might affect the thinking of children living in the world we live in today.
I brought my son some Peretti books home from the library and after reading some in one, he refused to read them and slept with the light on because, as he said, he knew that demons and what was happening in the books could be real (because it was evil and good in the setting of Christians and demonic forces). I think for some kids...the HP books give kids what they feel is a safe setting in learning about good vs evil because they know it is something they will never partake in in reality or at the very least that they have been taught against it. But the Christian demon stories, that most would think are fine scared my son pretty badly.
Scary that you think HP is a good way to teach the spiritual principles of good and evil. HP is what God refers to as abomination.
Why not our children learn from the words of God? You know, the whole Deut 6 thing?
This is where carnal reasoning gets us, folks....
Felicity
07-21-2007, 03:02 PM
I don't care for the Peretti books much either.
Scary that you think HP is a good way to teach the spiritual principles of good and evil. HP is what God referrs to as abomination.
Why not our children learn from the words of God? You know, the whole Deut 6 thing?
This is where carnal reasoning gets us, folks....
The point is......he knows that he has no plans to go out and cast a spell on someone. But the dynamics in the fictional books are what gives the book merit. I'm not saying it's for everyone and I am not promoting it. I am just saying that, as the Bible says "to the pure, all things are pure."
The point is......he knows that he has no plans to go out and cast a spell on someone. But the dynamics in the fictional books are what gives the book merit. I'm not saying it's for everyone and I am not promoting it. I am just saying that, as the Bible says "to the pure, all things are pure."
What an amazing distortion/perversion of scripture!
That is not at all what that scripture is referencing. What God calls abomination, is never pure.
Ever.
HeavenlyOne
07-21-2007, 03:16 PM
HO, you REALLY see no difference in Spiderman and teaching children about divination?! There is a big difference in trying to catch the bad guys and wanting to put a hex on someone, IMHO.
I'm speaking about the movies only, and not the website or any other promotions.
When we were young, we wanted to be like someone else. It's a normal part of life. We emulate those we want to be like, regardless how real or fake they are.
I used to have red slippers that I would knock together three times in hopes that I would be whisked away to Kansas, wherever that was.......
It never happened. I wanted it to happen so bad.
I remember being about 6 yrs old and my mom telling me to clean my room. I went to my room and touched my nose, trying to tweak it like Tabitha on Bewitched. She cleaned her room by doing that. Again, it never worked for me. But I really wanted it to! (I still want it to......LOL!)
It's normal for children to want to emulate the 'greats' in their life. I'm not for promoting witchcraft, but I would find it hard to believe that there is a one of us on this forum who never said 'magic words' about something in the hopes that a miracle would happen! It's normal for children to do those things, just as it is for them to attempt to fly, hoping to be like Superman.
I am not for the promotion of witchcraft, and although my daughter is 13, if she were 7, I would NOT buy her potion and spell candy. M&M's are good enough...LOL!
HeavenlyOne
07-21-2007, 03:18 PM
It amazes me that Christians so often attempt to justify or rationalize things that do not please God. When we reason with our natural, carnal mind, it often doesn't lead us to make spiritually sound decisions. Simply put, the carnal mind is hostile towards God and the things of God. If God says it, Christians should be quick to obey it.
Facts:
- Witchcraft and sorcery do not please God. Those who practice this sin are committing an abomination before God. They will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Deut 18:9-14; Gal 5:19-21)
- Witchcraft is clearly a sin (1 Sam 15:23)
- Biblically, witchcraft and sorcery are evil and is are connected with darkness and deceit.
There is no redeeming value in witchcraft. Justifying Harry Potter by saying that watching "Bewitched," is carnal reasoning. When we delight in evil or those who practice what God refers to as an abomination, it becomes sin to us. God does not make a distinction between white and dark magic. He calls it abomination.
Also, it's interesting that biblically, witchcraft is often connected to those who caused their children to "pass through the fire."
God help us...
Some people can read a book merely for literary content alone without being sucked into the 'spirit' of the book.
I know people who have done that with the Bible as well as HP books.
Ignore what God calls abomination?
Buy them the books or the movies, because they'll pretend anyway?
Allow them to delight in what God plainly calls abomination?
Can't agree with you on this one, HO. I see it as extremely carnal reasoning...
Some people can read a book merely for literary content alone without being sucked into the 'spirit' of the book.
I know people who have done that with the Bible as well as HP books.
I know people who have taken meth without getting addicted.
Carnal reasoning.
We won't go wrong by looking to the Word.
HeavenlyOne
07-21-2007, 03:22 PM
It's okay. :)
Well everyone has their opinion. I'm not comfortable with the HP books and I think there is a reason why they were placed with all the new age occult/witchcraft stuff. Some of the other books placed in that display were actually dealing with and teaching spells that people can use (for real) and apparently the people/person making that window display felt there was a connection between the HP books and all the other junk.
I watched the first HP movie part of the way through and again just didn't feel comfortable with the way things were being presented and how it might affect the thinking of children living in the world we live in today.
I went shopping at a bookstore for my daughter this past Christmas, as did LadyRev. I was shocked at the amount of books for children having to do with witchcraft, and the descriptions of the books made me put them back down.
I'm not blinding myself to possibilities of anything, and certainly there are children, with the help of their parents, who are getting caught up in witchcraft as a result of HP books. I'm not one of those parents, and my daughter isn't one of those kids.
That said, I still refuse to buy her certain books to read if my Holy Ghost isn't comfortable with it.
I went shopping at a bookstore for my daughter this past Christmas, as did LadyRev. I was shocked at the amount of books for children having to do with witchcraft, and the descriptions of the books made me put them back down.
I'm not blinding myself to possibilities of anything, and certainly there are children, with the help of their parents, who are getting caught up in witchcraft as a result of HP books. I'm not one of those parents, and my daughter isn't one of those kids.
That said, I still refuse to buy her certain books to read if my Holy Ghost isn't comfortable with it.
But HO, you are one of those parents who cares what the scripture clearly calls out as sin and evil and abomination. I know you are.
And also, if it is in the Word, it really doesn't matter if you are not uncomfortable with it or not.
HeavenlyOne
07-21-2007, 03:26 PM
Ignore what God calls abomination?
Buy them the books or the movies, because they'll pretend anyway?
Allow them to delight in what God plainly calls abomination?
Can't agree with you on this one, HO. I see it as extremely carnal reasoning...
I think you are misunderstanding me.
I'm not making blanket statements, but speaking of how it is for my daughter.....
She doesn't pretend anything. She merely reads and watches for the literary content alone. She's almost 14 and is well aware that casting spells isn't something a Christian does, nor does she delight in such things.
Remember, witchcraft is closely connected with passing our children through the fire. Search it out.
I think you are misunderstanding me.
I'm not making blanket statements, but speaking of how it is for my daughter.....
She doesn't pretend anything. She merely reads and watches for the literary content alone. She's almost 14 and is well aware that casting spells isn't something a Christian does, nor does she delight in such things.
Perhaps you misunderstand the meaning of delight, as I am using it. I'm referencing taking pleasure in something God calls out as sin or abomination. It's scripture...
Is watching that Brokeback movie wrong if we watch it for something other than it's homosexuality? What about watching porn? Is it okay if we watch it as a study in human sexuality, rather than for cheap thrills?
Sheltiedad
07-21-2007, 03:34 PM
Just throwing out a little excerpt from the Green Lantern from Wikipedia...
Following the rebirth of Superman and the destruction of his hometown of Coast City in the early 90's, Hal Jordan seemingly went insane and destroyed the Green Lantern Corps and the Central Power Battery. Now calling himself Parallax, Hal Jordan would devastate the DC Universe off and on for the next several years. However, after Earth's sun was threatened by a Sun-Eater, Jordan sacrificed his life expending the last of his vast power to reignite the dying star. Jordan subsequently returned from beyond the grave as the Spectre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectre_%28comics%29), the divine Spirit of God's Vengeance, whom Jordan attempted to transform into a Spirit of Redemption, which ended in failure.
In Green Lantern: Rebirth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Lantern:_Rebirth) it is revealed that Jordan was under the influence of a creature known as Parallax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax_%28comics%29) when he turned renegade. Parallax was a creature of pure fear that had been imprisoned in the central power battery by the Guardians of the Universe in the distant past. Imprisonment had rendered the creature dormant and it was eventually forgotten, becoming known merely as the "yellow impurity" in the power rings. Sinestro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinestro) was able to wake Parallax and encourage it to seek out Hal Jordan as a host. Although Parallax had been trying to corrupt Jordan (via his ring) for some time it wasn't until after the destruction of Coast City that it was able to succeed. It took advantage of Jordan's weakened emotional state to lure him to Oa and cause him to attack anyone who stood in his way. When Jordan finally entered the central battery and absorbed all the power he unwittingly freed the Parallax entity and allowed it to graft onto his soul.
Hmmm, an evil entity is grafted onto his soul?
:killinme
Thankfully, "GL" really has nothing to do with the Green Lantern. :winkgrin
And I'll remove the fist avatar if it offends you.
:)
HeavenlyOne
07-21-2007, 03:39 PM
But HO, you are one of those parents who cares what the scripture clearly calls out as sin and evil and abomination. I know you are.
And also, if it is in the Word, it really doesn't matter if you are not uncomfortable with it or not.
There are lots of things in the Bible we read about that are sin. There are also things we read about in scripture that aren't sinful in the Bible under the right circumstances but would be in today's world.
My daughter and I can watch a movie for the entertainment without being sucked up into the specifics.
On the other hand, I'm sure that when you read the story of David and Goliath to GL Jr., you didn't hand him a slingshot and encourage him to find the nearest giant, right? ;)
My kids eat what I set before them. If they grumble, manna will not fall. They will also be punished for grumbling!
I don't encourage my children to walk on water, even if they have faith to do so. They aren't allowed to walk in the ocean with the belief it will part and they will walk on dry ground.
They are allowed to pray for people, but telling someone to 'rise up and walk' isn't allowed.
The point I'm trying to make is that I teach principles of what we believe, whether it's from the Bible or a movie. My kids understand that and aren't sucked into the abominations of this world, even if they see it.
My kids think it's silly that other children believe they can cast spells. They also think it would be silly if they were to see someone stretching out a rod over the ocean in the hopes it would part. God had a purpose for that thousands of years ago. While I know it's possible that He can do it again, it's not probable.
Didn't mean to ramble, but this dial up has me saying what I can while I can....LOL!
What an amazing distortion/perversion of scripture!
That is not at all what that scripture is referencing. What God calls abomination, is never pure.
Ever.
Thne you better stop calling the days of the week by their names and a lot of other things.
http://mistupid.com/holidays/weekdays.htm
Look, if you don't want to read HP, don't. If I had younger kids, I would probably not allow it.
Ho, that is all carnal reasoning.
Witchcraft is never okay, under any circumstances.
Neither is homosexuality or other abominations...
It's more than something "we read as sin." God wrote it as sin.
BTW, I'm pretty sure that dial-up is sin...
HeavenlyOne
07-21-2007, 03:44 PM
Perhaps you misunderstand the meaning of delight, as I am using it. I'm referencing taking pleasure in something God calls out as sin or abomination. It's scripture...
Is watching that Brokeback movie wrong if we watch it for something other than it's homosexuality? What about watching porn? Is it okay if we watch it as a study in human sexuality, rather than for cheap thrills?
While I understand your point, if you heard my daughter explain it, you'd understand. I'm just not able to convey it online as she does in person.
However, let's face it. We justify Bible stories being seen or read because we understand the context that it's done in. However....would you allow your son to watch the crucifixion story of just anyone being done for any reason? Probably not. I know I wouldn't.
But to put myself deeper while trying to explain myself, I like blood and gore, and watch those kinds of movies. I don't know why, but I just like those kinds. However, I don't have the urge to go out and commit blood and gore crimes or delight in that kind of stuff. I watch it merely for the enjoyment.
And......it's just a movie.
Thne you better stop calling the days of the week by their names and a lot of other things.
http://mistupid.com/holidays/weekdays.htm
Look, if you don't want to read HP, don't. If I had younger kids, I would probably not allow it.
LOL. Trust me, I understand the pagan origin of many traditions and common practices. It means nothing to this discussion.
If you have an issue with it because you enjoy the literary content, perhaps you should deal with God about it. I won't judge you. His Word will...
LOL. Trust me, I understand the pagan origin of many traditions and common practices. It means nothing to this discussion.
If you have an issue with it because you enjoy the literary content, perhaps you should deal with God about it. I won't judge you. His Word will...
You are exactly right. I guess you better leave it between me and Him. :D
While I understand your point, if you heard my daughter explain it, you'd understand. I'm just not able to convey it online as she does in person.
However, let's face it. We justify Bible stories being seen or read because we understand the context that it's done in. However....would you allow your son to watch the crucifixion story of just anyone being done for any reason? Probably not. I know I wouldn't.
But to put myself deeper while trying to explain myself, I like blood and gore, and watch those kinds of movies. I don't know why, but I just like those kinds. However, I don't have the urge to go out and commit blood and gore crimes or delight in that kind of stuff. I watch it merely for the enjoyment.
And......it's just a movie.
But HO, the Bible discusses the issue of us enjoying those who practice sin - taking delight or pleasure in it. I used to watch slasher & gore movies as well, today I understand that doing so displeases God.
The principle is quite clear in NT scripture.
HeavenlyOne
07-21-2007, 03:48 PM
Ho, that is all carnal reasoning.
Witchcraft is never okay, under any circumstances.
Neither is homosexuality or other abominations...
It's more than something "we read as sin." God wrote it as sin.
And there is the justification on why we can read about those happenings in the Bible and it be ok, but we can't read about it otherwise, see?
No, witchcraft isn't ok, but that's not why my daughter reads the books or watches the movies.
BTW, I'm pretty sure that dial-up is sin...
Thankfully, I have cable internet at home!
You are exactly right. I guess you better leave it between me and Him. :D
Sorry. I'm called to preach the Word. I have constantly relied on it in this discussion. When that is no longer allowed on this forum, I'll leave. :winkgrin
....Thankfully, I have cable internet at home!
Thank God your not eternally doomed. :killinme
Porn is shown in some local college classes as study. Would that be okay with you to watch for study purposes only? After all, SOS is pretty graphic...
HeavenlyOne
07-21-2007, 03:51 PM
But HO, the Bible discusses the issue of us enjoying those who practice sin - taking delight or pleasure in it. I used to watch slasher & gore movies as well, today I understand that doing so displeases God.
The principle is quite clear in NT scripture.
I'm not able to make myself any clearer to you. It's just not possible in text, but what you are saying above doesn't apply to what I do or how I feel.
And I'm getting off this damnable dial up! My back is hurting and I've been here for hours with nothing accomplished!
I'm gonna send you a PM soon, but not today...LOL! Love you all lots!
....And I'm getting off this damnable dial up! ....
Finally, she sees the light, folks....
HeavenlyOne
07-21-2007, 03:55 PM
Thank God your not eternally doomed. :killinme
Porn is shown in some local college classes as study. Would that be okay with you to watch for study purposes only? After all, SOS is pretty graphic...
I was able to study sexuality issues without watching that mess. I don't agree that it's for study purposes only, but that's their justification.
I did, however, watch medical procedures in mixed company with actual body parts being shown. My medical books have real pics in them too.....it's sad when you have to tell your ever-learning daughter that she cannot look at your nursing books without permission....LOL!
I'm speaking about the movies only, and not the website or any other promotions.
When we were young, we wanted to be like someone else. It's a normal part of life. We emulate those we want to be like, regardless how real or fake they are.
I used to have red slippers that I would knock together three times in hopes that I would be whisked away to Kansas, wherever that was.......
It never happened. I wanted it to happen so bad.
I remember being about 6 yrs old and my mom telling me to clean my room. I went to my room and touched my nose, trying to tweak it like Tabitha on Bewitched. She cleaned her room by doing that. Again, it never worked for me. But I really wanted it to! (I still want it to......LOL!)
It's normal for children to want to emulate the 'greats' in their life. I'm not for promoting witchcraft, but I would find it hard to believe that there is a one of us on this forum who never said 'magic words' about something in the hopes that a miracle would happen! It's normal for children to do those things, just as it is for them to attempt to fly, hoping to be like Superman.
I am not for the promotion of witchcraft, and although my daughter is 13, if she were 7, I would NOT buy her potion and spell candy. M&M's are good enough...LOL!
HO, I never thought you were promoting witchcraft...spell candy...that's funny!!:winkgrin
Sorry. I'm called to preach the Word. I have constantly relied on it in this discussion. When that is no longer allowed on this forum, I'll leave. :winkgrin
Well then, you can consider that you have done your duty! ;)
Well then, you can consider that you have done your duty! ;)
More than a duty, a passion and a privilege.... :winkgrin
Pragmatist
07-21-2007, 04:43 PM
Personally, I am very sensitive about the occult in books. I don't read any books that have anything to do with witches, reincarnation, ghosts, anything spiritual that is not of God. For that reason, I would not allow my children, whatever their ages to read Harry Potter or anything similar. I do know numerous people who have read HP and said they enjoy it because they are very well written. That is their decision, but as for me and my house, we will stay FAR away.
Personally, I am very sensitive about the occult in books. I don't read any books that have anything to do with witches, reincarnation, ghosts, anything spiritual that is not of God. For that reason, I would not allow my children, whatever their ages to read Harry Potter or anything similar. I do know numerous people who have read HP and said they enjoy it because they are very well written. That is their decision, but as for me and my house, we will stay FAR away.
That's how I feel...I am not the literary police, but I do see a danger there.
Just my humble opinion...:choir
I wonder how they documented that 'fact'.
well, during the documentary, they talked about the increase of attendance at the summer/winter solsice (sp) at stone hinge. This is heavily attended by wiccians and modern druids.
there has been a steady increase in the numbers in the last few years and they asked a lot of people. common answer: Harry Potter got them on their journey.
again, there was no point here. it was not slanted either towards occult or against. just its history and current state.
CupCake
07-21-2007, 08:59 PM
PLEASE! There is no comparison! People having convictions and striving to please God (btw i don't agree w/ the "magical hair" thing and i don't believe its as wide spread as some like to think) and celebrating witchcraft.... apples and oranges... don't think so sis cupcake! :drama :winkgrin
There is no difference in my book, a lie is a lie no matter how you package it and sell it! As you can see by allowing a miss truth to be taught as a heaven or hell, you now have such foolishness as the magic hair ! The bible clear, we are not to take or add unto Gods Words!
Sherri
07-21-2007, 09:02 PM
Personally, I am very sensitive about the occult in books. I don't read any books that have anything to do with witches, reincarnation, ghosts, anything spiritual that is not of God. For that reason, I would not allow my children, whatever their ages to read Harry Potter or anything similar. I do know numerous people who have read HP and said they enjoy it because they are very well written. That is their decision, but as for me and my house, we will stay FAR away.
This is how I feel too. It smacks of God's definition of Abomination, and I want to stay as far away from those things that He calls unholy as I can.
There are some very clear differences.
first with Bewitched and Jeanie, these were not fantasy shows. They were lite comedy and clearly were not driving a witchcraft world view.
Wizard of Oz while clearly fantasy, the fight between good and evil showed that good wins.
Harry Potter, is both fantasy and never do you see clear victory for the good guys. in fact, as I understand it, there is no real line between good and evil. the view promotes witchcraft as an art and a faith, and blurs the line between good and evil...
Honestly I dont know that there is any more harm in a harry potter book than a Tom Clancy book when it comes to simply reading something. but I do think care is in order when you are considering the audence which is very young kids. Well balanced Parents who know their kids are the key.
The fault in your logic here and that of many critics is that HP presents a positive view of witchraft within a very defined framework of fantasy.
The entire world of HP is based on magical powers, beasts, creatures, etc that every sane person on earth knows does not exist.
HP is not promoting real witchcraft. It deals with a fantasy version. In the world of HP people wave magic wands and all sorts of amazing things happen. At Hogwarts food is created magtically, candleabras float in mid air, etc etc.
It is all very fantastical. It is not like they are presenting some kind of realistic view of real witchcraft. Because the world of HP is so far out it is very easy to seperate the fantasy of it from the reality of the real world.
Sherri
07-21-2007, 09:09 PM
CC1, I guess I have to play the Ultra Con on this one. If God says witchcraft is unholy and an abomination, then I think it's wrong to watch it or read it, even if it's "fantasy". That doesn't mean God thinks it's ok, just because it's not real life stuff. JMHO!
CupCake
07-21-2007, 09:12 PM
The fault in your logic here and that of many critics is that HP presents a positive view of witchraft within a very defined framework of fantasy.
The entire world of HP is based on magical powers, beasts, creatures, etc that every sane person on earth knows does not exist.
HP is not promoting real witchcraft. It deals with a fantasy version. In the world of HP people wave magic wands and all sorts of amazing things happen. At Hogwarts food is created magtically, candleabras float in mid air, etc etc.
It is all very fantastical. It is not like they are presenting some kind of realistic view of real witchcraft. Because the world of HP is so far out it is very easy to seperate the fantasy of it from the reality of the real world.
There are some who hold these same views about the Bible as well. As for HP I've never got into it, I'm not into fantasy stuff, prefer Si-Fi .
....HP is not promoting real witchcraft. It deals with a fantasy version. ...It is all very fantastical. It is not like they are presenting some kind of realistic view of real witchcraft. Because the world of HP is so far out it is very easy to seperate the fantasy of it from the reality of the real world.
That's right. It's okay to fantasize about sin & abomination, as long as it is fantastical and doesn't lead us into real sin...
:huh:huh:blink
The fault in your logic here and that of many critics is that HP presents a positive view of witchraft within a very defined framework of fantasy.
The entire world of HP is based on magical powers, beasts, creatures, etc that every sane person on earth knows does not exist.
HP is not promoting real witchcraft. It deals with a fantasy version. In the world of HP people wave magic wands and all sorts of amazing things happen. At Hogwarts food is created magtically, candleabras float in mid air, etc etc.
It is all very fantastical. It is not like they are presenting some kind of realistic view of real witchcraft. Because the world of HP is so far out it is very easy to seperate the fantasy of it from the reality of the real world.
CC1, i am in the middle on this one. I know that HP has lead to an increase in intrest in the occult. As I pointed out, there is documented evidence.
that does not mean I think a well balanced mature christian would be dramatically affected by HP. now a young mind full of mush? maybe.
I don't have a problem with any Christians choosing not to read Harry Potter. I am just stating my view that it is probably the best written fantasy book series of this century and a very fantastical world of "witchcraft" that cannot be confused with reality by any sane person.
I respect and understand concerns about the subject matter though and have no problem with the stand taken by many Christians to boycott HP.
Sherri
07-21-2007, 09:36 PM
That's right, CC1. Don't take away my one chance to appear conservative on here!!!:winkgrin
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