Ron Paul Doesn't Have A Chance

[deacon blues]

Give it up D4T!!!! No one cares about weirdo Ron Paul!

[Pressing-On]

He isn't weird. :D You are. :D

[deacon blues]

Huh-uh. You are!:lalala

[ReformedDave]

Give it up D4T!!!! No one cares about weirdo Ron Paul!

Many may not but he's helping a large segment of our nation in the eventual forming of a much needed third party.

Besides, his position is much stronger constitutionally than anyone else's.

[Pressing-On]

**Deleted**

[Pressing-On]

**deleted at request of Pressing-On**

[Digging4Truth]

Give it up D4T!!!! No one cares about weirdo Ron Paul!

NEV-AH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NEV-AH I say... NEV-AH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:)

[Bowas]

Give it up D4T!!!! No one cares about weirdo Ron Paul!

I fail to see why Ron PAul does not have a chance other than the majority of Americans can no longer think for themselves and allow the main stream media dictate to the masses who is viable and who are fringe. An American statesman does not have much of a chance as long as most Americans continue to drink the kool aid served daily on the news.
We are Americans and must never forget, we ultimately determine our future, not the media.
We have been brain washed into believing a real American is fringe and does not have a chance, I do not believe it!
God Bless America!

[pelathais]

I fail to see why Ron PAul does not have a chance other than the majority of Americans can no longer think for themselves and allow the main stream media dictate to the masses who is viable and who are fringe. An American statesman does not have much of a chance as long as most Americans continue to drink the kool aid served daily on the news.
We are Americans and must never forget, we ultimately determine our future, not the media.
We have been brain washed into believing a real American is fringe and does not have a chance, I do not believe it!
God Bless America!

Amen, God Bless America!

Now, the real reason why RP will fail and why his attempt won't even be a blip in the history of this great land:

1) The "fringe" he supports is the crackpot Rosie O'Donnell fringe of tin foil hats and UFO alien conspiracy theorists. Sadly, this encompasses a large part of the Oneness Apostolic movement today, but not enough votes to get elected.

2) Ron Paul is not a consensus builder. To get anything done in a nation of 300 million people, you must be able to get people of many different viewpoints to agree on something. Otherwise you will have a nation where the Interstate bridges are falling into the rivers and millions of people will come here illegally and demand government checks.

3) He won't win for the same reason my congressman won't win. When he's right, he's very right but he has never learned how to knock down a windmill. Don Quixote was another such loser; beautiful and romantic, but a loser.

[Truly Blessed]

Give it up D4T!!!! No one cares about weirdo Ron Paul! :highfive He's just another "also ran". He's way out of his depth!

[slave4him]

:highfive He's just another "also ran". He's way out of his depth!

So I guess we should just vote for a Republican or a Democrat. This is the thinking that keeps us in the same mess. I've heard it said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

[Pressing-On]

Sunday Republican Debate - the poll results. Somebody is interested in Ron Paul.

ABC News Poll

Ron Paul - 24,317

Mitt Romney - 3,496

Rudy Giuliani - 2,746

Drudge Poll

Ron Paul - 16,676

Brownback - 14,229

Giuliani - 5,842

Romney - 4,795

http://mediamonarchy.blogspot.com/2007/08/ron-paul-republican-debate.html

Politics
See other Politics Articles

Title: ABC Reset Republican Debate Tally After Ron Paul Win?
Source: Free-Market News Network
URL Source: http://geterrormessagesonurl
Published: Aug 5, 2007
Author: Staff
Post Date: 2007-08-05 14:52:20 by malador
Ping List: *Ron Paul 2008*
295 Comments

ABC Reset Republican Debate Tally After Ron Paul Win? Sunday, August 05, 2007 - FreeMarketNews.com

News Analysis

ABC TV apparently reset its tally of who won the Republican debate it broadcast on August 5, Sunday morning.

At 10 AM EST, Congressman Ron Paul (R-Tex) was winning the debate with over 1,000 votes. Mitt Romney was next with 106. After the debate at approximately 11:10 AM EST when the tally was rechecked, ABC showed Ron Paul had just 445 votes. Second was “Nobody Won. I’m Voting Democratic.”

Of course, it could all be an innocent gliche, and perhaps ABC will explain these tallies or see fit to rectify them. But it has long been FMNN’s contention, along with others, that Ron Paul, an old fashioned Jeffersonian conservative, would serve as a metaphor and magnifying glass for America’s current political difficulties and expanding corruption.

The debate itself was apparently little promoted. In fact, ABC marketed the debate so shallowly that Drudgereport.com didn’t seem to carry a blurb about it on its front page, and neither did Google News.

To set the stage for the debate, ABC moderators began with polling numbers that showed Ron Paul at just two percent, yet the numbers on the ABC website, at 10 AM EST and again at the end of the debate (before the tally was reduced), showed him winning the debate, as he has before, by a wide margin.

A search of Internet sites revealed some confusion about the debates times and where it was airing. Posted one confused would-be viewer: "What a bizzare time to hold a debate and what a screwy format for a debate. It won’t air in my area until 11:00 am."

Ron Paul will likely win the online debate poll by large numbers in any case. But changing poll numbers always generates questions. ABC is said to have manipulated its comment boards before as regards Ron Paul. (Edited after posting.)

Update: DrudgeReport.com put up a post-debate poll that showed Ron Paul winning the debate by wide margins (with 45% of the vote) as of 12:30 PM EST. Ron Paul continued to pull away in the ABC TV poll as well, despite the apparent tampering.

Staff Reports - Free-Market News Network
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=196097

[CC1]

Pressing On,

As I have pointed out in the past these online "polls" are not scientific polls and are hugely skewed most of the time depending on the demographics of the site or an organized effort by a canidate or organization involved in the poll question.

In other words I am often amused by polls at CNN, The New York Times, and otbher liberal news sites when they ask poll questions about political positions ,etc. Invariably the vast majority of the responses are the liberal viewpoint just as polls results at Fox News website invariably skew toward the conservative viewpoint. In other words the poll results in those cases reflect the demographic of the audience of those websites.

In the case of polls involving canidtates many times an underdog canidate will have an organized effort to contact supporters and urge them to log on to these websites and participate in the unscientific poll.

Ron Paul barely registers a bleep on scientific polls taken among Republicans regarding their preferred choice for the Republican 2008 Presidential canidate.

[Pressing-On]

Pressing On,

As I have pointed out in the past these online "polls" are not scientific polls and are hugely skewed most of the time depending on the demographics of the site or an organized effort by a canidate or organization involved in the poll question.

In other words I am often amused by polls at CNN, The New York Times, and otbher liberal news sites when they ask poll questions about political positions ,etc. Invariably the vast majority of the responses are the liberal viewpoint just as polls results at Fox News website invariably skew toward the conservative viewpoint. In other words the poll results in those cases reflect the demographic of the audience of those websites.

In the case of polls involving canidtates many times an underdog canidate will have an organized effort to contact supporters and urge them to log on to these websites and participate in the unscientific poll.

Ron Paul barely registers a bleep on scientific polls taken among Republicans regarding their preferred choice for the Republican 2008 Presidential canidate.
So you say. I wasn't listening. :D I like a lot of things that he stands for. A lot more than the other candidates. I especially like him since I have met and talked with him.

We spoke about, among other things, the Panama Canal and how a Chinese company has the contract on it. He said that the only way we could get it back was a full blown war.

[Brett Prince]

P-O,

RP is so off that it's not even funny. His answer to what to do with Iraq was so childish and idiotic he doesn't deserve a spot in the debate.

Sure, he has a few good ideas, but most things he holds to are laughable. He will never be the leader of a third party I can support.

[Bro-Larry]

Who do you think won the Republican debate?:telephone

Ron Paul
37,467 :killinme
Mitt Romney4,528
Nobody won. I'm voting Democratic.3,413
Rudy Giuliani3,208
Nobody. I'm waiting for Fred Thompson or Newt Gingrich to enter the race.2,906
Mike Huckabee2,681
Sam Brownback1,045
Tom Tancredo762
Tommy Thompson756
John McCain733
Duncan Hunter423
Total Vote: 57,922

[Pressing-On]

P-O,

RP is so off that it's not even funny. His answer to what to do with Iraq was so childish and idiotic he doesn't deserve a spot in the debate.

Sure, he has a few good ideas, but most things he holds to are laughable. He will never be the leader of a third party I can support.

Brett,
Ya'll say these things, but he keeps getting re-elected in Texas. What does that mean?

[Pressing-On]

War and Foreign Policy

The war in Iraq was sold to us with false information. The area is more dangerous now than when we entered it. We destroyed a regime hated by our direct enemies, the jihadists, and created thousands of new recruits for them. This war has cost more than 3,000 American lives, thousands of seriously wounded, and hundreds of billions of dollars. We must have new leadership in the White House to ensure this never happens again.

Both Jefferson and Washington warned us about entangling ourselves in the affairs of other nations. Today, we have troops in 130 countries. We are spread so thin that we have too few troops defending America. And now, there are new calls for a draft of our young men and women.

We can continue to fund and fight no-win police actions around the globe, or we can refocus on securing America and bring the troops home. No war should ever be fought without a declaration of war voted upon by the Congress, as required by the Constitution.

Under no circumstances should the U.S. again go to war as the result of a resolution that comes from an unelected, foreign body, such as the United Nations.

Too often we give foreign aid and intervene on behalf of governments that are despised. Then, we become despised. Too often we have supported those who turn on us, like the Kosovars who aid Islamic terrorists, or the Afghan jihads themselves, and their friend Osama bin Laden. We armed and trained them, and now we’re paying the price.

At the same time, we must not isolate ourselves. The generosity of the American people has been felt around the globe. Many have thanked God for it, in many languages. Let us have a strong America, conducting open trade, travel, communication, and diplomacy with other nations.

[Pressing-On]

Debt and Taxes

Working Americans like lower taxes. So do I. Lower taxes benefit all of us, creating jobs and allowing us to make more decisions for ourselves about our lives.

Whether a tax cut reduces a single mother’s payroll taxes by $40 a month or allows a business owner to save thousands in capital gains taxes and hire more employees, that tax cut is a good thing. Lower taxes allow more spending, saving, and investing which helps the economy — that means all of us.

Real conservatives have always supported low taxes and low spending.

But today, too many politicians and lobbyists are spending America into ruin. We are nine trillion dollars in debt as a nation. Our mounting government debt endangers the financial future of our children and grandchildren. If we don’t cut spending now, higher taxes and economic disaster will be in their future — and yours.

In addition, the Federal Reserve, our central bank, fosters runaway debt by increasing the money supply — making each dollar in your pocket worth less. The Fed is a private bank run by unelected officials who are not required to be open or accountable to “we the people.”

Worse, our economy and our very independence as a nation is increasingly in the hands of foreign governments such as China and Saudi Arabia, because their central banks also finance our runaway spending.

We cannot continue to allow private banks, wasteful agencies, lobbyists, corporations on welfare, and governments collecting foreign aid to dictate the size of our ballooning budget. We need a new method to prioritize our spending. It’s called the Constitution of the United States.

[Pressing-On]

Border Security and Immigration Reform

The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my six point plan:

* Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
* Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
* No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
* No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
* End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
* Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.

[Pressing-On]

Health Freedom

Americans are justifiably concerned over the government’s escalating intervention into their freedom to choose what they eat and how they take care of their health.

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA), in order to comply with standards dictated by supra-national organizations such as the UN‘s World Food Code (CODEX), NAFTA, and CAFTA, has been assuming greater control over nutrients, vitamins and natural health care providers to restrict your right to choose the manner in which you manage your health and nutritional needs.

I have been the national leader in preserving Health Freedom.

I have introduced the Health Freedom Protection Act, HR 2117, to ensure Americans can receive truthful health information about supplements and natural remedies.

I support the Access to Medical Treatment Act, H.R. 746, which expands the ability of Americans to use alternative medicine and new treatments.

I oppose legislation that increases the FDA‘s legal powers. FDA has consistently failed to protect the public from dangerous drugs, genetically modified foods, dangerous pesticides and other chemicals in the food supply. Meanwhile they waste public funds attacking safe, healthy foods and dietary supplements

I also opposed the Homeland Security Bill, H.R. 5005, which, in section 304, authorizes the forced vaccination of American citizens against small pox. The government should never have the power to require immunizations or vaccinations.

[Pressing-On]

Property Rights and Eminent Domain

We must stop special interests from violating property rights and literally driving families from their homes, farms and ranches.

Today, we face a new threat of widespread eminent domain actions as a result of powerful interests who want to build a NAFTA superhighway through the United States from Mexico to Canada.

We also face another danger in regulatory takings: Through excess regulation, governments deprive property owners of significant value and use of their properties — all without paying “just compensation.”

Property rights are the foundation of all rights in a free society. Without the right to own a printing press, for example, freedom of the press becomes meaningless. The next president must get federal agencies out of these schemes to deny property owners their constitutional rights to life, liberty, and property.

[Pressing-On]

Privacy and Personal Liberty

The biggest threat to your privacy is the government. We must drastically limit the ability of government to collect and store data regarding citizens’ personal matters.

We must stop the move toward a national ID card system. All states are preparing to issue new driver’s licenses embedded with “standard identifier” data — a national ID. A national ID with new tracking technologies means we’re heading into an Orwellian world of no privacy. I voted against the Real ID Act in March of 2005.

To date, the privacy focus has been on identity theft. It was Congress that created this danger by mandating use of the standard identifier (currently your SSN) in the private sector. For example, banks use SSNs as customer account identifiers because the government requires it.

We must also protect medical privacy. Right now, you’re vulnerable. Under so-called “medical privacy protection” rules, insurance companies and other entities have access to your personal medical information.

Financial privacy? Right now depositing $10,000 or more in cash in your local bank account will generate a federally-mandated report to the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network at the United States Department of the Treasury.

And then there’s the so-called Patriot Act. As originally proposed, it:

* Expanded the federal government's ability to use wiretaps without judicial oversight;
* Allowed nationwide search warrants non-specific to any given location, nor subject to any local judicial oversight;
* Made it far easier for the government to monitor private internet usage;
* Authorized “sneak and peek” warrants enabling federal authorities to search a person’s home, office, or personal property without that person’s knowledge; and
* Required libraries and bookstores to turn over records of books read by their patrons.

I have fought this fight for many years. I sponsored a bill to overturn the Patriot Act and have won some victories, but today the threat to your liberty and privacy is very real. We need leadership at the top that will prevent Washington from centralizing power and private data about our lives.

[Pressing-On]

American Independence and Sovereignty

So called free trade deals and world governmental organizations like the International Criminal Court (ICC), NAFTA, GATT, WTO, and CAFTA are a threat to our independence as a nation. They transfer power from our government to unelected foreign elites.

The ICC wants to try our soldiers as war criminals. Both the WTO and CAFTA could force Americans to get a doctor’s prescription to take herbs and vitamins. Alternative treatments could be banned.

The WTO has forced Congress to change our laws, yet we still face trade wars. Today, France is threatening to have U.S. goods taxed throughout Europe. If anything, the WTO makes trade relations worse by giving foreign competitors a new way to attack U.S. jobs.

NAFTA’s superhighway is just one part of a plan to erase the borders between the U.S. and Mexico, called the North American Union. This spawn of powerful special interests, would create a single nation out of Canada, the U.S. and Mexico, with a new unelected bureaucracy and money system. Forget about controlling immigration under this scheme.

And a free America, with limited, constitutional government, would be gone forever.

Let’s not forget the UN. It wants to impose a direct tax on us. I successfully fought this move in Congress last year, but if we are going to stop ongoing attempts of this world government body to tax us, we will need leadership from the White House.

We must withdraw from any organizations and trade deals that infringe upon the freedom and independence of the United States of America.

[Pressing-On]

Life and Liberty

The right of an innocent, unborn child to life is at the heart of the American ideals of liberty. My professional and legislative record demonstrates my strong commitment to this pro-life principle.

In 40 years of medical practice, I never once considered performing an abortion, nor did I ever find abortion necessary to save the life of a pregnant woman.

In Congress, I have authored legislation that seeks to define life as beginning at conception, HR 1094.

I am also the prime sponsor of HR 300, which would negate the effect of Roe v Wade by removing the ability of federal courts to interfere with state legislation to protect life. This is a practical, direct approach to ending federal court tyranny which threatens our constitutional republic and has caused the deaths of 45 million of the unborn.

I have also authored HR 1095, which prevents federal funds to be used for so-called “population control.”

Many talk about being pro-life. I have taken direct action to restore protection for the unborn.

As an OB/GYN doctor, I’ve delivered over 4,000 babies. That experience has made me an unshakable foe of abortion. Many of you may have read my book, Challenge To Liberty, which champions the idea that there cannot be liberty in a society unless the rights of all innocents are protected. Much can be understood about the civility of a society in observing its regard for the dignity of human life.

[Brett Prince]

Okay, P-O. You've convinced me.



































RP is an unelectable candidate with a number of really good ideas. :D

[Pressing-On]

Okay, P-O. You've convinced me.


RP is an unelectable candidate with a number of really good ideas. :D

This was the only point I have been trying to make. I'm not trying to convince anyone to vote for him. All I'm saying is that the man is not stupid by a long shot.

He makes this statement:

At the same time, we must not isolate ourselves. (Speaking on war and foreign policy)

Yet, he gets labeled as an isolationist by the media. Words are forming and powerful. They are not soon to be forgotten if you say them over and over an over. It's like advertising. The media knows how to play it.

I respect him highly and I am grateful for the way he has not felt pressured to vote in favor of the Constitution on all accounts. Married to the same wife of his youth. :D

[Digging4Truth]

This was the only point I have been trying to make. I'm not trying to convince anyone to vote for him. All I'm saying is that the man is not stupid by a long shot.

He makes this statement:


Yet, he gets labeled as an isolationist by the media. Words are forming and powerful. They are not soon to be forgotten if you say them over and over an over. It's like advertising. The media knows how to play it.

I respect him highly and I am grateful for the way he has not felt pressured to vote in favor of the Constitution on all accounts. Married to the same wife of his youth. :D

You know what... If Ron Paul doesn't win... if Ron Paul can't win... If Ron Paul does nothing more....

Wouldn't it be great if, despite not getting someone like Ron Paul at the top that this woke up so many people about government and its constant hunger for more ungranted power that a vast groundswell of like thinking people began running for local office... and then regional offices... and then state offices... and then federal offices....

He is electable... if people will start realizing he is electable. The mantra and drone we have been mesmerized into chanting by the purveyors of "the norm" is a self fulfilling prophecy of doom. It's mere utterance establishes the mindset needed to ensure its fulfillment.

But.. no matter what... more people are awake today than ever before in my lifetime... and that number will remain so.. until tomorrow... when even more wake up.

[Pressing-On]

You know what... If Ron Paul doesn't win... if Ron Paul can't win... If Ron Paul does nothing more....

Wouldn't it be great if, despite not getting someone like Ron Paul at the top that this woke up so many people about government and its constant hunger for more ungranted power that a vast groundswell of like thinking people began running for local office... and then regional offices... and then state offices... and then federal offices....

He is electable... if people will start realizing he is electable. The mantra and drone we have been mesmerized into chanting by the purveyors of "the norm" is a self fulfilling prophecy of doom. It's mere utterance establishes the mindset needed to ensure its fulfillment.

But.. no matter what... more people are awake today than ever before in my lifetime... and that number will remain so.. until tomorrow... when even more wake up.
This is what I am hoping for.

[Brett Prince]

I respect him highly and I am grateful for the way he has not felt pressured to vote in favor of the Constitution on all accounts. Married to the same wife of his youth. :D

Run that by me one more time, and r-e-a-l-l-y s-l-o-w-l-y...

You are grateful that he has NOT felt pressured to vote IN FAVOR of the CONSTITUTION on all accounts?

Okay, forget it. There is NO WAY that I could vote for him, then. I am a strict constructionist regarding the Constitution, and feel that we could turn this nation around if we could get back to it.

[BrotherEastman]

I'd vote for RP.

[Bro-Larry]

He's by far the most sensibly candidate of either party. I sent him $50.

[Digging4Truth]

He's by far the most sensibly candidate of either party. I sent him $50.

Indeed he is...

[Pressing-On]

Run that by me one more time, and r-e-a-l-l-y s-l-o-w-l-y...

You are grateful that he has NOT felt pressured to vote IN FAVOR of the CONSTITUTION on all accounts?

Okay, forget it. There is NO WAY that I could vote for him, then. I am a strict constructionist regarding the Constitution, and feel that we could turn this nation around if we could get back to it.

You are not reading what I said correctly. I said he is NOT pressured by outside forces to always vote in favor of the Constitution. He always upholds the Constitution and weighs everyone to be voted on by that.

In other words, he is not intimidated "politically" to vote in favor of the Constitution. He isn't trying to please anyone but the American people.

[Pressing-On]

You are not reading what I said correctly. I said he is NOT pressured by outside forces to always vote in favor of the Constitution. He always upholds the Constitution and weighs everyone to be voted on by that.

In other words, he is not intimidated "politically" to vote in favor of the Constitution. He isn't trying to please anyone but the American people.

Let me word that in a better way. I know what I'm saying, but you don't. LOL

He is NOT pressured by outside forces and always votes in favor of the Constitution. He always upholds the Constitution and weighs everything to be voted on by that.

In other words, he is not intimidated "politically" when he votes and it it always in favor of the Constitution. He isn't trying to please anyone but the American people.

Most of his ideas are what the American people want and so I don't know what the big uproar about him not being a viable candidate is.

He's getting re-elected in Texas. Doesn't that say something? I live in a largely Democratic area and he wins here too! In our precinct.

[deacon blues]

Most of his ideas are what the American people want and so I don't know what the big uproar about him not being a viable candidate is.

Maybe these kinds of polling numbers kind of lead most of us to believe that he is NOT a viable candidate:

Orginally printed in a Rasmussen Reports article:

For the seven days ending August 19, 2007, Rudy Giuliani earns 25% of the vote. Fred Thompson is second at 21% followed by Mitt Romney at 14%. John McCain now earns 12% support followed by Mike Huckabee at 4%. Four other candidate split 4% of the vote while 19% are undecided. Those candidates, mentioned by name in the polling question, are Sam Brownback, Ron Paul, Duncan Hunter, and Tom Tancredo.

Its not hard to figure out.........

He's getting re-elected in Texas. Doesn't that say something? I live in a largely Democratic area and he wins here too! In our precinct.

Barney Frank gets re-elected every year too.:nobodycares

[Digging4Truth]

Ron Paul earned 9.1% of the vote in the Iowa Straw Poll.

[CC1]

Ron Paul earned 9.1% of the vote in the Iowa Straw Poll.

What was funny was that a couple of days before that straw poll the Paul folks were saying he might win it. That they thought a lot of people were going to accept invitations to vote from other candidates organizations but then surprise them all and vote for Ron Paul once they got there. Guess that didn't happen!!

[Digging4Truth]

What was funny was that a couple of days before that straw poll the Paul folks were saying he might win it. That they thought a lot of people were going to accept invitations to vote from other candidates organizations but then surprise them all and vote for Ron Paul once they got there. Guess that didn't happen!!

The exit polls showed him winning it with 37%.

The diebold electronic voting machines were used.

So... who knows.

But... those who view him negatively will always react negatively. Those who do not will not.

Our view shapes our reactions.

[CC1]

The exit polls showed him winning it with 37%.

The diebold electronic voting machines were used.

So... who knows.

But... those who view him negatively will always react negatively. Those who do not will not.

Our view shapes our reactions.

Oh please tell me you are not going to invoke conspiracy theory stupidity here.

It amazes me how many people resort to the black helicopter stuff to justify their positions or to explain things that didn't go the way they thought they should.

Ron Paul doesn't show up as squat diddily in any scientific national polls. Only on the voluntary intenet ones where his little minions can vote a few hundred times each.

[CC1]

GOOD NEWS RON PAUL FANS!!!!

Over the last few months and most likely due to the exposure from the debates Presidential Canidate Ron Paul has seen a giant leap in support according to most scientific opinon polls.

I am pasting the results below. RP has doubled and some case tripled his support!

(the bad news is that means he has gone from 1% to 2% and 3% in some polls - LOL!!!!)

Last Updated: 8/24/07

National Averages by Month
Pollster Jan Feb Mar Apr May June July Aug
ABC News 1.0 1.0 - 1.0 - 1.7 - -
American Research Group - - 1.0 - 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0
CBS News - - - - - - - -
CNN 1.0 - 2.0 1.0 1.0 2.0 - 1.0
Cook Political Report - - - 1.0 1.0 2.0 - -
Democracy Corps - - 1.0 - - - - -
Diageo - - - - 1.0 - - -
Fox News - - - - 1.0 2.0 2.0 3.0
Gallup - - 1.0 2.0 - 2.0 3.0 3.0
Ipsos - - - - - - - -
Los Angeles Times - - - - - - - -
Marist - 1.0 - - - - - -
McLaughlin - - - - - - - -
NBC - - - - - 2.0 2.0 -
Newsweek - - - - - - - 2.0
Pew Research - - - - - - - -
Quinnipiac - 1.0 - - - 1.0 - 2.0
Time Magazine - - - - - - - -
USA Today - - - - - 1.5 3.0 2.0
Zogby - - 3.0 - - - 1.0 -
Misc Pollsters - - - - - - - -

[Digging4Truth]

Oh please tell me you are not going to invoke conspiracy theory stupidity here.

It amazes me how many people resort to the black helicopter stuff to justify their positions or to explain things that didn't go the way they thought they should.

Ron Paul doesn't show up as squat diddily in any scientific national polls. Only on the voluntary intenet ones where his little minions can vote a few hundred times each.

No sir I'm not... but it certainly gave you an opportunity to break out the good ole trust black helicopter reference.

Below are the "squat diddly" results of Ron Pauls Straw Polls so far. These are NOT internet polls. These are actual physical straw polls where one registered voter is allowed one vote and placed that vote physically in an actual physical location.

Ron Paul's Straw Poll Results
Updated on August 25, 2007

Straw Poll Date Place Percent
Allegheny County, Pennsylvania 8/26/2007 1 45.2 %
DeKalb County, Georgia Straw Poll 8/25/2007 1 24 %
HRCC (Minnesota) 8/22/2007 3 16.0%
Ronald Reagan Club (Washington) 8/21/2007 1 28.0%
West Alabama 8/18/2007 1 81.2%
Strafford County, NH 8/18/2007 1 72.2%
West Lafayette, Indiana 8/18/2007 4 11.7%
Illinois State Fair 8/17/2007 3 18.9%
Students for Life of America 8/16/2007 4 9.0%
Western Montana Fair 8/15/2007 6 4.0%
Gaston County, NC 8/14/2007 1 36.6%
Ames, Iowa 8/11/2007 5 9.1%
(NFRA), St. Louis, MO 8/6/2007 3 14.0%
FreedomWorks Straw Poll 8/3/2007 1 56 %
Georgetown County, SC 7/28/2007 2 17.9%
New Hampshire Taxpayers 7/7/2007 1 65.3%
Cobb County, GA 7/4/2007 2 17.0%
California Republican Assembly 7/1/2007 4 12.0%
National Taxpayers Union 6/16/2007 2 16.7%
Utah GOP convention 6/8/2007 2 5.4%

[Digging4Truth]

GOOD NEWS RON PAUL FANS!!!!

Over the last few months and most likely due to the exposure from the debates Presidential Canidate Ron Paul has seen a giant leap in support according to most scientific opinon polls.

I am pasting the results below. RP has doubled and some case tripled his support!

(the bad news is that means he has gone from 1% to 2% and 3% in some polls - LOL!!!!)

Last Updated: 8/24/07

National Averages by Month
Pollster Jan Feb Mar Apr May June July Aug
ABC News 1.0 1.0 - 1.0 - 1.7 - -
American Research Group - - 1.0 - 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0
CBS News - - - - - - - -
CNN 1.0 - 2.0 1.0 1.0 2.0 - 1.0
Cook Political Report - - - 1.0 1.0 2.0 - -
Democracy Corps - - 1.0 - - - - -
Diageo - - - - 1.0 - - -
Fox News - - - - 1.0 2.0 2.0 3.0
Gallup - - 1.0 2.0 - 2.0 3.0 3.0
Ipsos - - - - - - - -
Los Angeles Times - - - - - - - -
Marist - 1.0 - - - - - -
McLaughlin - - - - - - - -
NBC - - - - - 2.0 2.0 -
Newsweek - - - - - - - 2.0
Pew Research - - - - - - - -
Quinnipiac - 1.0 - - - 1.0 - 2.0
Time Magazine - - - - - - - -
USA Today - - - - - 1.5 3.0 2.0
Zogby - - 3.0 - - - 1.0 -
Misc Pollsters - - - - - - - -

Arent these those pesky internet polls where each candidates little minions can vote a few hundred times each?

Why don't we look at the straw polls that consist of one vote per real live flesh & blood voters. The straw poll results I mention are in the post just before this one.

[chosenbyone]

Arent these those pesky internet polls where each candidates little minions can vote a few hundred times each?

Why don't we look at the straw polls that consist of one vote per real live flesh & blood voters. The straw poll results I mention are in the post just before this one.

DT,

I am 100% convinced that he is the best candidate. If anyone would actually stop long enough to listen to this man they would be convinced too.

chosen

[deacon blues]

What was funny was that a couple of days before that straw poll the Paul folks were saying he might win it. That they thought a lot of people were going to accept invitations to vote from other candidates organizations but then surprise them all and vote for Ron Paul once they got there. Guess that didn't happen!!

The straw poll is a joke. Its a fund raiser. All it shows is that a person has the ability to organize and get people to vote. Every vote is bought and paid for. Ultimately, if a guy can't get people to vote for him even when hes PAYING them, the handwriting on the wall should be obvious.

9% in the straw poll with Guiliani, McCain and Thompson sitting out is more like less than 1%.

[deacon blues]

The exit polls showed him winning it with 37%.

The diebold electronic voting machines were used.

So... who knows.

But... those who view him negatively will always react negatively. Those who do not will not.

Our view shapes our reactions.

Somebody cheated?!?!?!?!? Come on D4T! That's the oldest loser's excuse in the book!:killinme

[deacon blues]

Arent these those pesky internet polls where each candidates little minions can vote a few hundred times each?

Why don't we look at the straw polls that consist of one vote per real live flesh & blood voters. The straw poll results I mention are in the post just before this one.
April 15, 1944..............................Berlin, Germany...............................THIS JUST IN................................................ ....from the Ministry of Propaganda........................................ ..........Dr. Josef Goebbels has just announced......................................... ..........a major turn of events.....................................our brave soldiers of the Weirmacht......................................... .....have broken through Allied lines and will be entering Berlin any moment.........................................to rescue the Führer and the citizens of our great city.............................................. ................................don't surrender, keep fighting.......................................... .......................our great cause must not die, our destiny must be fulfilled......................................... ............................ZEIG HEIL!

[CC1]

Arent these those pesky internet polls where each candidates little minions can vote a few hundred times each?

Why don't we look at the straw polls that consist of one vote per real live flesh & blood voters. The straw poll results I mention are in the post just before this one.

No genius. What I posted are the national scientificly conducted REAL polls by polling companies like Gallup, Zogby, Pew Research ,etc.

Where you see a news site or source named it is not unscientific online polls cited but just means it is a poll that they commissioned from some polling company.

I have a hard time understanding why so many people are having a hard time understanding the difference between an online voluntary poll where campaigns can be organized to flood the poll vs. scientific polls where a representative sample of the general population or likely voters are polled.

[Brett Prince]

DT,

I am 100% convinced that he is the best candidate. If anyone would actually stop long enough to listen to this man they would be convinced too.

chosen

The reason why Ron Paul is not the best candidate, while he is right on a good number of things, is that he is unelectable.

1) He is not a good speaker.

2) He is not a good debater.

3) He does not have presidential presence or "aura."

4) He appears old in every way.

5) His voice is somewhat whiny.

6) He sounds like a complainer.

The truth is, I agree with him on MANY, MANY things. But, he would be a waste of my time and effort due to the fact that I know he can't get the nomination, let alone beat Hillary or Osama, or George the monkey, for that matter.

He has no stage presence, he is not well-accepted among the mainstream conservatives or moderates of his own party, and he can't raise the funds necessary to win.

Too bad. What would be nice is if somebody would realize he is right and make him a key adviser to their platform AFTER they got elected.

[Digging4Truth]

Somebody cheated?!?!?!?!? Come on D4T! That's the oldest loser's excuse in the book!:killinme

I said... So... who knows... come off it folks.

I didn't say anybody cheated.

Do none of you know the weaknesses of the diebold voting machines?

[Digging4Truth]

The reason why Ron Paul is not the best candidate, while he is right on a good number of things, is that he is unelectable.

1) He is not a good speaker.

2) He is not a good debater.

3) He does not have presidential presence or "aura."

4) He appears old in every way.

5) His voice is somewhat whiny.

6) He sounds like a complainer.

The truth is, I agree with him on MANY, MANY things. But, he would be a waste of my time and effort due to the fact that I know he can't get the nomination, let alone beat Hillary or Osama, or George the monkey, for that matter.

He has no stage presence, he is not well-accepted among the mainstream conservatives or moderates of his own party, and he can't raise the funds necessary to win.

Too bad. What would be nice is if somebody would realize he is right and make him a key adviser to their platform AFTER they got elected.

The man does a great job of speaking. I don't know why you would say otherwise.

[Digging4Truth]

DT,

I am 100% convinced that he is the best candidate. If anyone would actually stop long enough to listen to this man they would be convinced too.

chosen

Indeed....All they have to do is hear about him. America loves his message. You don't have to sell them (the vast majority) on what he is saying... once they hear the message they are hooked.

Freedom is popular.

[Digging4Truth]

No genius. What I posted are the national scientificly conducted REAL polls by polling companies like Gallup, Zogby, Pew Research ,etc.

Where you see a news site or source named it is not unscientific online polls cited but just means it is a poll that they commissioned from some polling company.

I have a hard time understanding why so many people are having a hard time understanding the difference between an online voluntary poll where campaigns can be organized to flood the poll vs. scientific polls where a representative sample of the general population or likely voters are polled.

Okay... since I know you read at least one of my last few posts before you posted this.... what is your take on the actual straw polls taken by actual voters with a voters registration card?

Ron Paul has done well so far in the straw polls and his popularity only grows.

[deacon blues]

I got see some of Ron Paul's performance in tonight's debate while on my computer. I honestly tried to view objectively. I was really open to have him win me over. He made some great points on government regulation of the airline industry and how 9/11 may not have happened if the 2nd Amendment would have been upheld. The terrorists would have thought twice if the airlines would've been allowed to protect themselves.

But on foreign policy-----------------------wow. RP makes a case about mistakes that have been made. But his solution: comepletely withdraw from Iraq AND the entire Middle East! He wants to return to pre-WWII "let them solve their own problems" policy. I'm sorry D4T the man is unelectable. His foreign policy ideas would be disasterous! With nuclear weapons and WMDs in the world, we can no longer look at conflicts around the globe as "their business". Its all of our business and if we don't stop it there, it will come to our doorstep.

[Ferd]

I got see some of Ron Paul's performance in tonight's debate while on my computer. I honestly tried to view objectively. I was really open to have him win me over. He made some great points on government regulation of the airline industry and how 9/11 may not have happened if the 2nd Amendment would have been upheld. The terrorists would have thought twice if the airlines would've been allowed to protect themselves.

But on foreign policy-----------------------wow. RP makes a case about mistakes that have been made. But his solution: comepletely withdraw from Iraq AND the entire Middle East! He wants to return to pre-WWII "let them solve their own problems" policy. I'm sorry D4T the man is unelectable. His foreign policy ideas would be disasterous! With nuclear weapons and WMDs in the world, we can no longer look at conflicts around the globe as "their business". Its all of our business and if we don't stop it there, it will come to our doorstep.

well, I watched some last night too. I came away with about the same ideas. Isolationism has NEVER worked. Ron Paul is WRONG on foreign policy.

[Digging4Truth]

well, I watched some last night too. I came away with about the same ideas. Isolationism has NEVER worked. Ron Paul is WRONG on foreign policy.

Ron Paul is not an isolationist.

And... Ron Paul won.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f103/browser8/poll_results.jpg

[CC1]

well, I watched some last night too. I came away with about the same ideas. Isolationism has NEVER worked. Ron Paul is WRONG on foreign policy.

Yup. The idea that if we just close our eyes and hum in the dark everything will be fine works as well as the toddler who plays hide and seek by standing in the open with his hands over his eyes.

Ron Paul is a typical Libertarian nut posing as a Republican. He has proposed doing away with the FBI and just about every other Gov't. agency.

His vision of government is as realistic as communism.

[Digging4Truth]

Yup. The idea that if we just close our eyes and hum in the dark everything will be fine works as well as the toddler who plays hide and seek by standing in the open with his hands over his eyes.

Ron Paul is a typical Libertarian nut posing as a Republican. He has proposed doing away with the FBI and just about every other Gov't. agency.

His vision of government is as realistic as communism.

You guys just simply already have your minds made up about what Ron Paul thinks and believes and nothing anybody says is going to open your eyes about it.

Ron Paul is not an isolationist.
Ron Paul does not suggest closing our eyes and humming in the dark.

Ron Paul suggests obeying the Constitution...remember that document?

Ron Paul suggests restoring Habeas Corpus.

Ron Paul suggests not going to war unless there is a war declared in congress.

Ron Paul suggests that we stop policing the world and "bringing democracy" (Which is odd since we are supposed to be a republic) to countries of our choice.

Ron Paul suggest that we stop attacking country after country when these countries have not attacked us. We went into Iraq on false pretenses and we were wrong to do so. Simply following the Constitution would have prevented this whole quagmire we now find ourselves in.

I will define isolationist for you guys who love the term so much and then I will demonstrate that Ron Paul is not an isolationist. But I have no hope that the facts will have any effect on your rhetoric.

Please note...
i·so·la·tion·ism (ī'sə-lā'shə-nĭz'əm)
n. A national policy of abstaining from political or economic relations with other countries.

Ron Paul does not, in any way, promote a national policy of abstaining from political or economic relations with other countries.

Ron Paul does promote a national policy of abstaining from attacking countries who have not attacked us. So does the Constitution and so did the forefathers of this nation.

Ron Paul does promote a national policy of abstaining from encumbering alliances with other countries and entities that chip away at our sovereignty as a nation. So does the Constitution and so did the forefathers of this nation.

Ron Paul does promote a national policy of open communication and trade practices with other countries. So does the Constitution and so did the forefathers of this nation.

I probably won't address the few who continue to incorrectly throw around the "I" word again. Those who keep repeating this erroneous accusation have their opinions (which is not only fine but wonderful) and all I can see is that there is a favored buzz word that has been found useful and no demonstration that the definition of the word is not fulfilled in Ron Paul will change it unless a new buzz word is found to replace it.

I would be a fool and un-American if I were to want everyone to like Ron Paul. But if one were to speak against a particular candidate then one would do well to speak on realities rather than simply polly-parroting buzz words that have no basis in fact.

[Ferd]

Ron Paul is not an isolationist.

And... Ron Paul won.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f103/browser8/poll_results.jpg

another internet poll won by RP? dude is in left field. I listened. I heard. he aint a republican and he is WRONG. and he got waxed in that debate

[Digging4Truth]

another internet poll won by RP? dude is in left field. I listened. I heard. he aint a republican and he is WRONG. and he got waxed in that debate

He definitely isn't what passes for a Republican these days. But he is what passed for a Republican when Ronald Reagen was elected.

And... not just an internet poll. As a matter of fact... not an internet poll at all.

But a FOX Poll.
A FOX text message poll.
That only allowed one vote per phone.

So no blaming it on Paulites voting multiple times.

Well... we all know that if people show up and were finger printed and then imprisoned until all votes were cast that the accusation would still be there.

America is waking up.

[deacon blues]

not hardly a scientific poll DT. And the RP people could easily have organized an effort for their people to text their vote; a bunch of democrats could have voted for him for that matter. I'd vote for kucinich after a democrat debate just to muddy the waters.:telephone

[Digging4Truth]

not hardly a scientific poll DT. And the RP people could easily have organized an effort for their people to text their vote; a bunch of democrats could have voted for him for that matter. I'd vote for kucinich after a democrat debate just to muddy the waters.:telephone

Please see my reply in the Ron Paul Wins 09/05/2007 Fox Presidential Debate thread.

I changed my mind... given the title of this thread this information needs to be put here as well... again.

Well... instead of just looking at the various internet polls why don't we look at actual straw polls. These are actual votes taken with actual registered Republicans with a verified one vote per person vote.

The forum doesn't translate polls very well but you can see the actual table by clicking here. (http://www.ronpaul2008.com/straw-poll-results/)

But... even though the forum doesn't translate tables well the info below is not unduly hard to read.

The info is as follows.

The location, the date, what place he came in and then the percentage of the vote he commanded.

In 20 of the 23 straw polls he was in the top 4
In 17 of the 23 straw polls he was in the top 3.
In 13 of the 23 straw polls he was in the top 2.
In 9 of the 23 straw polls he won.

South Dakota Straw Poll 9/3/2007 6 8 %
Maryland Straw Poll 9/3/2007 1 27.3%
Texas Straw Poll 9/1/2007 3 16.7 %
Allegheny County, Pennsylvania 8/26/2007 1 45.2 %
DeKalb County, Georgia Straw Poll 8/25/2007 1 24 %
HRCC (Minnesota) 8/22/2007 3 16.0%
Ronald Reagan Club (Washington) 8/21/2007 1 28.0%
West Alabama 8/18/2007 1 81.2%
Strafford County, NH 8/18/2007 1 72.2%
West Lafayette, Indiana 8/18/2007 4 11.7%
Illinois State Fair 8/17/2007 3 18.9%
Students for Life of America 8/16/2007 4 9.0%
Western Montana Fair 8/15/2007 6 4.0%
Gaston County, NC 8/14/2007 1 36.6%
Ames, Iowa 8/11/2007 5 9.1%
(NFRA), St. Louis, MO 8/6/2007 3 14.0%
FreedomWorks Straw Poll 8/3/2007 1 56 %
Georgetown County, SC 7/28/2007 2 17.9%
New Hampshire Taxpayers 7/7/2007 1 65.3%
Cobb County, GA 7/4/2007 2 17.0%
California Republican Assembly 7/1/2007 4 12.0%
National Taxpayers Union 6/16/2007 2 16.7%
Utah GOP convention 6/8/2007 2 5.4%

His head to head records against the various candidates are as follows.

Ron Paul's Head-to-Head Records (Win-Lose-Tie):
Rudy Giuliani 20-3-0
Mitt Romney 13-10-0
Fred Thompson 10-12-0
John McCain 20-2-0
Mike Huckabee 19-2-1
Sam Brownback 19-2-1
Tom Tancredo 20-1-0
Duncan Hunter 19-2-0

[deacon blues]

Head to head info---first of all, what is this head to head deal? Its hard for me to believe that RP defeated RG 20 out of 23 times.

[Digging4Truth]

Head to head info---first of all, what is this head to head deal? Its hard for me to believe that RP defeated RG 20 out of 23 times.

Ron Paul beat out Rudy Guliani 20 of 23 straw polls.

[Ferd]

L

[Ferd]

O

[Ferd]

0

[Ferd]

N

[CC1]

Why are the RP supporters so afraid of scientific polls?

Straw Polls are just like the voluntary internet polls. The results depends on the organizational skills of the canidates campaign organization and has nothing to do with the reality of their popularity or support among Republican voters.

Ron Paul consistently only has 1% to 3% support among Republicans in REAL scientific polls. That is the cold hard truth.

I have as much chance of winning the Republican nomination as Ron Paul does.

I would rather vote for Hillary than RP anyway and I detest her and her policies. She is just evil while RP is a nut.

[Digging4Truth]

What do you mean by loon... Ferd?

[CC1]

Ferd,

These RP supporters are amazing. They ignore any scientific polling and cling to voluntary online polls and straw polls that can be influenced by the campaigns organizational drive to get supporters to vote.

I have yet to see one respond to my many posts regarding his measley one to three percent support among Republicans in every scientific poll.

It is as if they wish to be delusional.

[StillStanding]

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r227/Steinwayman/cnnpoll.jpg

This is the latest CNN poll showing trends. Paul has remained at 1-2%, while Thompson is gaining!

[CC1]

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r227/Steinwayman/cnnpoll.jpg

This is the latest CNN poll showing trends. Paul has remained at 1-2%, while Thompson is gaining!

Don't confuse the Paulites with a scientific poll. They are blindly clutching to voluntary online polls that an organized campgain can skew and organized
"straw polls" subject to the same.

They have an amazing way of ignoring these posts and facts. Apparently the kind of ostriches that only raise their head out of the sand to see what they want to see.

[CC1]

Don't confuse the Paulites with a scientific poll. They are blindly clutching to voluntary online polls that an organized campgain can skew and organized
"straw polls" subject to the same.

They have an amazing way of ignoring these posts and facts. Apparently the kind of ostriches that only raise their head out of the sand to see what they want to see.

By the way. Here is the difference between myself and the delusional Paulites on this forum.

I am a realist. I will not try to spin the actual status and standing of my canidate in the race.

Fred Thompson is second in all of the REAL polls right now behind Rudi BUT I understand that this is the honeymoon period. He has not yet been tested as a campaigner and debator.

We will have to see if he can hold his own in debates with his fellow canidates and out on the road with stump speeches drumming up support.

You will not see any distortions of his popularity by me based on voluntary online polls that can be maniuplated. I will face the reality of how he is doing throughout the campaign.

[Esther]

I think all the polls are probably worded to give the outcome they want. :)

[CC1]

I think all the polls are probably worded to give the outcome they want. :)

Scientific polls can be influenced by the way questions are asked, no doubt. However compared to the manipulation done in voluntary online polls they are amazingly pure and accurate!!

In the case of Presiential preference there is little in the way of wording that can skew the poll as the questions are pretty straight forward. It is when polls are taken regarding issues that the wording is extremely importanat and can skew the results.

There is a website called "real clear politics" that the last few Presidential election cycles has taken all of the scientific polls and averaged them together for a composite. That composite has been pretty accurate. They do this weekly so you can see trends and changes capturede across the board by many of the scientific polls.

[deacon blues]

The silence from the RP camp is deafening!

[deacon blues]

BUMP

[deacon blues]

BUMP