The Process of Change

[Nahum]

I've been thinking about the way we decide which things we should fight to change. Normally, our elders, in and out of Christendom, advise us to take a "wait and see" approach. It seems as though their wisdom is that change is not to be fought for, rather that change will simply come to you - if you wait patiently for it.

I see this as a "let someone else fight for it" attitude.

In other words many people see the NEED for change and are even willing to talk about it. But most people are not willing to actually FIGHT for the changes they believe would be beneficial and maybe even necessary.

In my opinion, needed change only occurs when a person, or a group of persons, is willing to put something on the line for it. Real change involves risks. There is no reward without risks.

What would you like to see change in your life? In your ministry? In your job? In your home? In your body?

What would make you decide to take the necessary steps to implement a process of change? What level of dissatisfaction is necessary?

Personal, religious, and political revolutions occur when good people turn a vision into reality. When the hope for something better, more refined, and specifically reflective of a true inner desire, matures into a resolute determination to change a body, a system, and an entire paradigm.

These risk takers, these revolutionaries, are simply called......









leaders.

[deltaguitar]

So now I am a leader. What will be next?


:cowbell

[mizpeh]

I've seen change come about after times of diligent prayer and fasting without me having to say a thing.

[Nahum]

I've seen change come about after times of diligent prayer and fasting without me having to say a thing.


You said something. You did something.

You laid hold of the ONE who can change anything.

You fought on your knees.

[DividedThigh]

it is a risk reward scenario, in most cases, some change occurs naturally, but most of the change in the church and our lives, comes from taking a risk, no doubt, no pain , no glory, no gain, sometimes in order to achieve whatever goal god has set before us we must take that leap, dt

[mizpeh]

You said something. You did something.

You laid hold of the ONE who can change anything.

You fought on your knees.:thumbsup

[revrandy]

Is the pain of change considered a Sacrifice or Punishment?

It would probaly depend on the perception (I'm using this word alot of late) of the one who is looking at the Changee...

[Nahum]

I've been thinking about the way we decide which things we should fight to change. Normally, our elders, in and out of Christendom, advise us to take a "wait and see" approach. It seems as though their wisdom is that change is not to be fought for, rather that change will simply come to you - if you wait patiently for it.

I see this as a "let someone else fight for it" attitude.

In other words many people see the NEED for change and are even willing to talk about it. But most people are not willing to actually FIGHT for the changes they believe would be beneficial and maybe even necessary.

In my opinion, needed change only occurs when a person, or a group of persons, is willing to put something on the line for it. Real change involves risks. There is no reward without risks.

What would you like to see change in your life? In your ministry? In your job? In your home? In your body?

What would make you decide to take the necessary steps to implement a process of change? What level of dissatisfaction is necessary?

Personal, religious, and political revolutions occur when good people turn a vision into reality. When the hope for something better, more refined, and specifically reflective of a true inner desire, matures into a resolute determination to change a body, a system, and an entire paradigm.

These risk takers, these revolutionaries, are simply called......



leaders.

There would have been no Topeka outpouring, and no Azusa revival, without a hefty dose of desire for spiritual change. Have you ever experienced an inner churning for spiritual change?

[Barb]

The wording of this is accurate, IMO, because often change is a process.

But it is also a fact that change is not always easy and many of us do not like change...kinda like the Who Moved My Cheese mentality.

If we are not careful, this hangs over in every area, even as it pertains to spirtual matters...this is the way it has always been done and it's worked thus far.

This mindset may very well prevent us from moving in God as He wills...just my thoughts...

[revrandy]

I've been thinking about the way we decide which things we should fight to change. Normally, our elders, in and out of Christendom, advise us to take a "wait and see" approach. It seems as though their wisdom is that change is not to be fought for, rather that change will simply come to you - if you wait patiently for it.

I see this as a "let someone else fight for it" attitude.

In other words many people see the NEED for change and are even willing to talk about it. But most people are not willing to actually FIGHT for the changes they believe would be beneficial and maybe even necessary.

In my opinion, needed change only occurs when a person, or a group of persons, is willing to put something on the line for it. Real change involves risks. There is no reward without risks.

What would you like to see change in your life? In your ministry? In your job? In your home? In your body?

What would make you decide to take the necessary steps to implement a process of change? What level of dissatisfaction is necessary?

Personal, religious, and political revolutions occur when good people turn a vision into reality. When the hope for something better, more refined, and specifically reflective of a true inner desire, matures into a resolute determination to change a body, a system, and an entire paradigm.

These risk takers, these revolutionaries, are simply called......









leaders.


Bump****

[Felicity]

"There is a time" the wisest man who ever lived once said. :)


There's a time to "wait" and there's a time to fight.


A time to advance and a time to hold steady or maybe even retreat.


A time to be different and to make the changes that being different involve.


But then there's a time to fit in, go with the flow and be part of the status quo.


There's a time to shine and a time to live in the shadows.


There's times to stand up for what you believe and fight for that.


Then there are times to sit and be quiet and simply hold to what you know is right.


Change is part of life. You can't live and not change. Life is a process. Change is inevitably part of the process. What we all need is wisdom, understanding and discernment when to do what.

No man is perfect. Man is imperfect and as a result some of the choices made will be wrong choices. Mistakes will be made because of the "humanity" factor. But remaining in God's calling and purpose assures He'll continue to work with, in, and continue to direct the lives of those who He has chosen for a specific purpose and on whom He has placed the mantle of anointing, gifting and calling. :thumbsup

Thank God for that!

[Nahum]

I've been thinking about the way we decide which things we should fight to change. Normally, our elders, in and out of Christendom, advise us to take a "wait and see" approach. It seems as though their wisdom is that change is not to be fought for, rather that change will simply come to you - if you wait patiently for it.

I see this as a "let someone else fight for it" attitude.

In other words many people see the NEED for change and are even willing to talk about it. But most people are not willing to actually FIGHT for the changes they believe would be beneficial and maybe even necessary.

In my opinion, needed change only occurs when a person, or a group of persons, is willing to put something on the line for it. Real change involves risks. There is no reward without risks.

What would you like to see change in your life? In your ministry? In your job? In your home? In your body?

What would make you decide to take the necessary steps to implement a process of change? What level of dissatisfaction is necessary?

Personal, religious, and political revolutions occur when good people turn a vision into reality. When the hope for something better, more refined, and specifically reflective of a true inner desire, matures into a resolute determination to change a body, a system, and an entire paradigm.

These risk takers, these revolutionaries, are simply called......







leaders.


Thought it may be fitting to discuss this further.

[Rhoni]

it is a risk reward scenario, in most cases, some change occurs naturally, but most of the change in the church and our lives, comes from taking a risk, no doubt, no pain , no glory, no gain, sometimes in order to achieve whatever goal god has set before us we must take that leap, dt


Change, whether for the better or the worse is always painful. Change, like growth is a process. I agree with DT that sometimes one has to step out on faith, just like Abraham who left family and community to follow a promise...because he believed the person who promised.

The older one gets the more difficult change is. The more rooted in traditions that the church is the more difficult/or painful when change occurs. We need to stop and think...do we honor the traditions or do we honor the one for whom the traditions were meant to honor?

Have you ever received a gift knowing the person had your best interest at heart but they really didn't know what you liked - they only thought you would like what they liked. We do that to God...offer Him things we think He will like because we like them but God is not impressed at all.

God has a church, has always had a church, and will have a church to present to Himself a bride...yes a BRIDE the highest honor that can be paid to a person. He is preparing a BRIDE that he has washed clean/made pure/virginal [she couldn't make herself worthy so HE did it for her] to present to himself a church/bride that will honor and respect him.

Blessings, Rhoni

[crakjak]

I've been thinking about the way we decide which things we should fight to change. Normally, our elders, in and out of Christendom, advise us to take a "wait and see" approach. It seems as though their wisdom is that change is not to be fought for, rather that change will simply come to you - if you wait patiently for it.

I see this as a "let someone else fight for it" attitude.

In other words many people see the NEED for change and are even willing to talk about it. But most people are not willing to actually FIGHT for the changes they believe would be beneficial and maybe even necessary.

In my opinion, needed change only occurs when a person, or a group of persons, is willing to put something on the line for it. Real change involves risks. There is no reward without risks.

What would you like to see change in your life? In your ministry? In your job? In your home? In your body?

What would make you decide to take the necessary steps to implement a process of change? What level of dissatisfaction is necessary?

Personal, religious, and political revolutions occur when good people turn a vision into reality. When the hope for something better, more refined, and specifically reflective of a true inner desire, matures into a resolute determination to change a body, a system, and an entire paradigm.

These risk takers, these revolutionaries, are simply called......









leaders.

Change will come whether one takes action or not. However, it will then be reaction instead of proaction. A person can be a leader in their own life or both their own life and a leader that others will follow.

If you think you are leading, look behind you, if no one is following you are just taking a walk.

[Rhoni]

Change will come whether one takes action or not. However, it will then be reaction instead of proaction. A person can be a leader in their own life or both their own life and a leader that others will follow.

If you think you are leading, look behind you, if no one is following you are just taking a walk.

Pastor Poster and yourself have good thoughts. I might add that a great leader mentors great leaders. If a leader is not sending out leaders to replace him/or herself then they are only wanting accolades and are not kingdom minded.

Blessings, Rhoni

[freeatlast]

Thought it may be fitting to discuss this further.

________________________________________
Here's our (one of our problems) in Pentecost

Start with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside the cage, hang a
banana on a string and place a set of stairs under it. Before long, a
monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. As
soon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the other monkeys with cold
water. After a while, another monkey makes an attempt with the same
result - all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty
soon,
when another monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys will
try to prevent it. Now, put away the cold water. Remove one monkey from
the cage and replace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana
and wants to climb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all of the
other monkeys attack him. After another attempt and attack, he knows
that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.



Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace it with a
new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous
newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm! Likewise,
replace
a third original monkey with a new one, then a fourth, then the fifth.
Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs, he is attacked. Most
of the monkeys that are beating him have no idea why they were not
permitted to climb the stairs or why they are participating in the
beating of the newest monkey. After replacing all the original monkeys,
none of the remaining monkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water.
Nevertheless, no monkey ever again approaches the stairs to try for the
banana. Why not? Because as far as they know that's the way it's
always been done around here.



And that, my fellow monkey, is how Traditions begins

[Rhoni]

________________________________________
Here's our (one of our problems) in Pentecost

Start with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside the cage, hang a
banana on a string and place a set of stairs under it. Before long, a
monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. As
soon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the other monkeys with cold
water. After a while, another monkey makes an attempt with the same
result - all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty
soon,
when another monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys will
try to prevent it. Now, put away the cold water. Remove one monkey from
the cage and replace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana
and wants to climb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all of the
other monkeys attack him. After another attempt and attack, he knows
that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.



Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace it with a
new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous
newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm! Likewise,
replace
a third original monkey with a new one, then a fourth, then the fifth.
Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs, he is attacked. Most
of the monkeys that are beating him have no idea why they were not
permitted to climb the stairs or why they are participating in the
beating of the newest monkey. After replacing all the original monkeys,
none of the remaining monkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water.
Nevertheless, no monkey ever again approaches the stairs to try for the
banana. Why not? Because as far as they know that's the way it's
always been done around here.



And that, my fellow monkey, is how Traditions begins

:killinme:killinme:killinme:killinme:killinme:kill inme:hypercoffee

Pavlov might call it Behavioral Theory. :)

[freeatlast]

WE HAVE NEVER DONE IT THAT WAY BEFORE.

Eight little words that have hindered more churches than even adultery or the misuse of money.

[freeatlast]

:killinme:killinme:killinme:killinme:killinme:kill inme:hypercoffee

Pavlov might call it Behavioral Theory. :)

It's just the sad truth Rhoni.

[Rhoni]

It's just the sad truth Rhoni.

Yes it is. It reminds me of the scriptures that talk about the blind following the blind, and both falling into the ditch.

[Rhoni]

"There is a time" the wisest man who ever lived once said. :)

There's a time to "wait" and there's a time to fight.
A time to advance and a time to hold steady or maybe even retreat.
A time to be different and to make the changes that being different involve.
But then there's a time to fit in, go with the flow and be part of the status quo.
There's a time to shine and a time to live in the shadows.
There's times to stand up for what you believe and fight for that.
Then there are times to sit and be quiet and simply hold to what you know is right.
Change is part of life. You can't live and not change. Life is a process. Change is inevitably part of the process. What we all need is wisdom, understanding and discernment when to do what.

No man is perfect. Man is imperfect and as a result some of the choices made will be wrong choices. Mistakes will be made because of the "humanity" factor. But remaining in God's calling and purpose assures He'll continue to work with, in, and continue to direct the lives of those who He has chosen for a specific purpose and on whom He has placed the mantle of anointing, gifting and calling. :thumbsup

Thank God for that!


Felicity,

This was a very good post. I think it got overlooked but needs to be addressed. It would appear you and I were on the same wavelength here.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Nahum]

________________________________________
Here's our (one of our problems) in Pentecost

Start with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside the cage, hang a
banana on a string and place a set of stairs under it. Before long, a
monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. As
soon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the other monkeys with cold
water. After a while, another monkey makes an attempt with the same
result - all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty
soon,
when another monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys will
try to prevent it. Now, put away the cold water. Remove one monkey from
the cage and replace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana
and wants to climb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all of the
other monkeys attack him. After another attempt and attack, he knows
that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.



Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace it with a
new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous
newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm! Likewise,
replace
a third original monkey with a new one, then a fourth, then the fifth.
Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs, he is attacked. Most
of the monkeys that are beating him have no idea why they were not
permitted to climb the stairs or why they are participating in the
beating of the newest monkey. After replacing all the original monkeys,
none of the remaining monkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water.
Nevertheless, no monkey ever again approaches the stairs to try for the
banana. Why not? Because as far as they know that's the way it's
always been done around here.



And that, my fellow monkey, is how Traditions begins

Very good Free!

Reminds me of the crab bucket mentality.

Any crab that tries to climb over and out gets pulled down by other crabs trying to do the same, so no one ever gets out.

[freeatlast]

I've been thinking about the way we decide which things we should fight to change. Normally, our elders, in and out of Christendom, advise us to take a "wait and see" approach. It seems as though their wisdom is that change is not to be fought for, rather that change will simply come to you - if you wait patiently for it.

I see this as a "let someone else fight for it" attitude.

In other words many people see the NEED for change and are even willing to talk about it. But most people are not willing to actually FIGHT for the changes they believe would be beneficial and maybe even necessary.

In my opinion, needed change only occurs when a person, or a group of persons, is willing to put something on the line for it. Real change involves risks. There is no reward without risks.

What would you like to see change in your life? In your ministry? In your job? In your home? In your body?

What would make you decide to take the necessary steps to implement a process of change? What level of dissatisfaction is necessary?

Personal, religious, and political revolutions occur when good people turn a vision into reality. When the hope for something better, more refined, and specifically reflective of a true inner desire, matures into a resolute determination to change a body, a system, and an entire paradigm.

These risk takers, these revolutionaries, are simply called......









leaders.

Several years ago as the worship leader at our church i just plain got sick of the same old songs week after week.

Don't take me wrong. i love amazing grace /at the cross / the old rugged cross...and many more and still sing some of them.

But after checking out a local "charismatic" church that had went from 5 to 4000 in five years, to see how they worshipped...what they sang.

I left the Saturday night service and cried all the way home, so moved from the worship experience of what we now call contempoary or vertical worship.

I tried to share with my wife (who my music minister) what I had experienced and could'nt hardly talk, just cry.

As I said, several years ago, we began changing the style of songs we sang in our church. When we had visitors from other UPC churches it was always the same response. They wanted copies of our songs. wanted to know where we got those songs. Told us they loved how the songs were addressed to God.

Still today there are those who will criticize those who try something new. to lead the way. (Just read the threads on NAYC)

God said "Sing unto the Lord a new song"

Go ahead and keep on singing, "Hold the fort for I am coming". Maybe it "moves" you, but it ain't moving sinners today.

Break out of the box is an old old refrain...but many of us have only said it and never done it.

[stmatthew]

"It is not the critic who counts, not the one who points out how the strong man stumbled or how the doer of deeds might have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred with sweat and dust and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause; who, if he wins, knows the triumph of high achievement; and who, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat."

- Theodore Roosevelt in his "Man in the Arena" speech April 23, 1910

[Nahum]

"It is not the critic who counts, not the one who points out how the strong man stumbled or how the doer of deeds might have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred with sweat and dust and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause; who, if he wins, knows the triumph of high achievement; and who, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat."

- Theodore Roosevelt in his "Man in the Arena" speech April 23, 1910

Great quote Matthew!

I'm gonna copy that and post it at my desk.